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#1

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 10:16:55 AM

The Guardian felt necessary to explain what appears to be the dubious political motivations behind the organisation doing the "you are too visibly Jewish with that kippa" thing at one of the so-called Pro-Palestinian marches:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/apr/26/who-is-the-caa-gideon-falter-met-police-openly-jewish-antisemitism-row

More importantly they felt that by giving more context via the longer-length video to the incident with the police officer, they shed a different light on it:

A longer version of the clip released later shows the officer explaining to Falter that his approach was informed by the knowledge he had already deliberately walked out into the middle of the march and was therefore "looking to try and antagonise this".

John Mann, the government's antisemitism tsar, said Falter had been "quite explicit" about his intentions at the protest. "There's no ambiguity in what he's doing," he told the BBC, saying he had been blocked by the CAA on the social media platform X and they were "not playing it straight".

Well, excuse me, sure he was trying to provoke a negative response to his Jewish identity but if he managed to do that, that would have revealed the true nature of the protest. If it was a "pro-Palestine" and not, in fact, an anti-Jewish march, then a Jewish man among the protesters -even without some protest sign making clear the side he is on- surely would had provoked no incident?

What has been revealed, as the bare minimum, is that the authorities considered that an anti-semitic march. Whether they were right or wrong they did not give that guy a chance to find out.

I've ended up with a painfully nuanced take on this have seen the videos emerge over tie and so on.

It's absolutely unacceptable to use the phrase "openly Jewish" and the police need to act on. Also we need (not just the police, but society at large) to make far more of the fact that being Jewish is never a provocation. It has always been a disgrace (though not unique to the UK in Europe) that Jewish places of worship, schools and cultural centres require extra police protection.

At the same time, I think in the longer video the police officer's broad position is actually right. This guy is filming content and wants to walk through (and against) the march in order to cross the road - or more accurately he wants to provoke a response to create content (and would then rely on the police to get involved). As the police officer points out he's seen him do it several times so the argument that he just wants to "cross the road" is disingenuous, he wants to generate content. The police officer also pointed that if he wanted to cross the road, then there was a police crossing point for pedestrians just 100 metres up the road and the police officer offered to walk him there.

And I think the role of the police is slightly difficult with protests and it is about balancing rights. It is absolutely right that people are able to protest on Palestine and the police protect that right; it would also be absolutely right for there to be counter-protesters and it would be for the police to place those groups in different areas to make sure that it doesn't escalate. That's not what's happened but, similarly, while people have a right to protest other people have a right to go about their lives doing what they want to do (though I have less sympathy for someone trying to provoke something to generate content) - and I think the police need to support that as long as it's not disruptive or likely to cause a risk to public order.

I think broadly the Met have actually got the balance right. The protests are happening, there are incidents of anti-semitism or criminal extremism on display, but instead of wading into a protest of 100,000+ to arrest those people the police are letting the protest carry on and then arresting them in the subsequent week. Similarly I think the police officer in this instance broadly got it right.

Having said all that I think it is a challenge for the protests in general. I said this right at the start that there were slogans and groups involved that were anti-semitic or perceived as anti-semitic and that was unacceptable. I think it is broadly groups, but I think it is very problematic the extent to which some of these slogans and lines, like "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" have entered the mainstream. I think it is difficult to talk, as some on the left do about these wonderful, peaceful open tolerant protests if ultimately the police are having to make calls about what might cause disorder. And ultimately it's not for the police to maintain firewalls against unacceptable extremists in protests movements or political parties - that's on them.

I still think there has been a weird inconsistency with the policing of protest and crowds by the Met - but, in general, I think they're getting this right in striking the balance between allowing the right to protest, preventing public disorder/things degenerating and also arresting people committing crimes on these marches (but after the march).

#2

Off the Record / Re: Israel-Hamas War 2023

Last post by Razgovory - Today at 09:55:57 AM

Okay, that is too much.

#3

Off the Record / Re: What does a TRUMP presiden...

Last post by The Minsky Moment - Today at 09:25:54 AM

"We are writing a rule for the ages." -- Neil Gorsuch

That one line encapsulates everything that has wrong with the Supreme Court, and how much the judicial right has betrayed its own supposed conservative principles.

#4

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by Savonarola - Today at 09:24:42 AM

Weird and Gilly have been found:

Eerie 'Spiders' Scattered Through Inca City on Mars Seen in Incredible Images

#5

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by HVC - Today at 08:57:52 AM

Just discovered there's a mini-chain of Uyghur restaurants (one in Leicester, one in London) that is engaged in some incredible historical, international trolling of Italians.

All their dishes have Italian names, which is where they initially came from on the Silk Road. So noodles are "Original linguine" and polo (like plov or pilaf) is "Original risotto"

I can only hope the Italians mad at food discover it at some point.

They're doing God's work 

#6

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by Josquius - Today at 08:30:36 AM

Today I learned: The convention of north being at the top of the maps comes from Ptolemy and was done because everything north and west (Europe) was believed to be discovered and had a lot of detail, whilst east and south there was a lot of important stuff about which knowledge was hazier....and you naturally write from left to right, top of the page to the bottom, and smudging was a risk.

#7

Off the Record / Re: Football (Soccer) Thread

Last post by Josquius - Today at 08:13:55 AM

I live within walking distance of Millwall's stadium and many Millwall pubs and can only agree with Gups

Curious, I seem to recall the flat you almost bought but didn't was also near there.
I suspect you're actually a secret Millwall fan. Why else would anyone claim to support the blue Liverpool team? :p

#8

Gaming HQ / Re: The NEW New Boardgames Thr...

Last post by Habbaku - Today at 07:51:49 AM

I have, indeed, only played 1 v. 1, many many times. I can't recommend the 4-player rules-set because of that and am pretty leery of it being worthwhile.

Similar to Dune: War for Arrakis and War of the Ring, the games are initially designed as 2-player and it seems to me that the 4-player rules are tacked on as a marketing ploy.

I do hope it works out, regardless. I also recommend playing out a turn or two solo so you don't encounter too many stumbles if you're teaching the game.

#9

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 07:48:32 AM

Just discovered there's a mini-chain of Uyghur restaurants (one in Leicester, one in London) that is engaged in some incredible historical, international trolling of Italians.

All their dishes have Italian names, which is where they initially came from on the Silk Road. So noodles are "Original linguine" and polo (like plov or pilaf) is "Original risotto"

I can only hope the Italians mad at food discover it at some point.

#10

Off the Record / Re: Football (Soccer) Thread

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 07:43:48 AM

I live within walking distance of Millwall's stadium and many Millwall pubs and can only agree with Gups