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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Syt on March 16, 2009, 01:52:42 AM

Title: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 16, 2009, 01:52:42 AM
In the old thread the question was raised about books about the Seven Years War that are *not* about the British Navy or the French and Indian Wars.

The Seven Years War in Europe: 1756-1763 by Franz A.J. Szabo was mentioned in the context, but I guess I'll leave it be after this reader review on Wargamer:
QuoteJust finished the above book. Let me save you the trouble and summarize: Frederick the great was an incompetent tyrant and , apparently, a coward who routinely fled from battles that his over rated Prussian Army constantly lost.  When prussia won a victory, it was only because of some type of fluke like a weather event, or a junior Austrian officer misunderstanding an order.  Austria routinely dominated the incompetent Frederick whose Prussian Army only survived through sheer luck.  Fredericks reputataion only developed due to Prussian propogandists.

I guess I should have read the author's bio first. Professor of Austrian Studies, native Austrian, and dedicated his book to his two grandfathers who, as he proudly announces, both fought for Austria-hungary during WWI.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 16, 2009, 05:34:56 AM
Tried by War: Abraham Lincoln as Commander in Chief by James McPherson.

A good read that showed how Lincoln quickly developed strategic insight that far outstripped that of his generals until Grant was put in command.

Next on my list 'Lincoln and his Admirals'
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on March 16, 2009, 05:49:04 AM
I'm reading Tomasz Cyz's (a Polish writer) "Dionysios's returns" which is a book about Karol Szymanowski, a Polish composer, and his opera "King Roger".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Alatriste on March 16, 2009, 07:45:52 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 16, 2009, 01:52:42 AM
In the old thread the question was raised about books about the Seven Years War that are *not* about the British Navy or the French and Indian Wars.

The Seven Years War in Europe: 1756-1763 by Franz A.J. Szabo was mentioned in the context, but I guess I'll leave it be after this reader review on Wargamer:
QuoteJust finished the above book. Let me save you the trouble and summarize: Frederick the great was an incompetent tyrant and , apparently, a coward who routinely fled from battles that his over rated Prussian Army constantly lost.  When prussia won a victory, it was only because of some type of fluke like a weather event, or a junior Austrian officer misunderstanding an order.  Austria routinely dominated the incompetent Frederick whose Prussian Army only survived through sheer luck.  Fredericks reputataion only developed due to Prussian propogandists.

I guess I should have read the author's bio first. Professor of Austrian Studies, native Austrian, and dedicated his book to his two grandfathers who, as he proudly announces, both fought for Austria-hungary during WWI.

With critics like this I always wonder if the book is really so strongly biased or rather the reader was looking for a piece of hero worshipping and can't handle the truth(TM). In this case the 'caveat' applies even more strongly because, to put it bluntly, the entire Kingdom of Prussia survived due to sheer luck. That Old Fritz was reduced to ordering his ministers to get peace at any price is as close to an stablished fact as one can get.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Korea on March 16, 2009, 08:28:41 AM
The Blade Itself - Joe Abercrombia


It is okay. :mellow:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on March 16, 2009, 08:54:35 AM
Is this thread really unified, or is that just a catchy title to get people to post here?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on March 16, 2009, 09:06:27 AM
Quote from: PDH on March 16, 2009, 08:54:35 AM
Is this thread really unified, or is that just a catchy title to get people to post here?
Are you calling Syt a liar?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on March 16, 2009, 09:42:18 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 16, 2009, 09:06:27 AM
Quote from: PDH on March 16, 2009, 08:54:35 AM
Is this thread really unified, or is that just a catchy title to get people to post here?
Are you calling Syt a liar?
I believe I was calling him a savvy marketing guru, Mr. "I jump to conclusions."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 16, 2009, 09:54:14 AM
Quote from: PDH on March 16, 2009, 09:42:18 AM
I believe I was calling him a savvy marketing guru, Mr. "I jump to conclusions."

I want to pick a conclusion and then jump to it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on March 16, 2009, 10:04:29 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 16, 2009, 09:54:14 AM
I want to pick a conclusion and then jump to it.
Sorry, you have to be faux gay.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on March 16, 2009, 11:18:50 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 16, 2009, 09:54:14 AM
Quote from: PDH on March 16, 2009, 09:42:18 AM
I believe I was calling him a savvy marketing guru, Mr. "I jump to conclusions."

I want to pick a conclusion and then jump to it.

You could market that as a party game: "JUMP to Conclusions!" 

Shameless Office Space reference.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 16, 2009, 11:31:18 AM
Quote from: PDH on March 16, 2009, 08:54:35 AM
Is this thread really unified, or is that just a catchy title to get people to post here?

Brain took away my "What are you listening to now" thread, so I claimed this one.

Besides, I wanted to make a follow up to something from the previous thread/forum/life, and so this presented itself naturally.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: fhdz on March 16, 2009, 12:22:32 PM
I'm reading The Kindly Ones by Jonathan Littell at the moment; when I finish that, it's on to Steve Erickson's Tours of the Black Clock.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 16, 2009, 12:24:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 16, 2009, 11:31:18 AM
Quote from: PDH on March 16, 2009, 08:54:35 AM
Is this thread really unified, or is that just a catchy title to get people to post here?

Brain took away my "What are you listening to now" thread, so I claimed this one.


Punishment for changing your nick, Sytass.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 16, 2009, 12:25:23 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on March 16, 2009, 12:22:32 PMTours of the Black Clock.

Not what I read at first.  :-[
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 16, 2009, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 16, 2009, 12:24:41 PM

Punishment for changing your nick, Sytass.

I changed mine waaaaaaaaaaaaay before suckers like Timmy Trollson or Monkeyangerbradycunt.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 16, 2009, 12:27:04 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 16, 2009, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 16, 2009, 12:24:41 PM

Punishment for changing your nick, Sytass.

I changed mine waaaaaaaaaaaaay before suckers like Timmy Trollson or Monkeyangerbradycunt.

So you inspired them? Thanks a million, asshole.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: fhdz on March 16, 2009, 01:23:18 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 16, 2009, 12:25:23 PM
Not what I read at first.  :-[

:D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 16, 2009, 04:12:38 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on March 16, 2009, 07:45:52 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 16, 2009, 01:52:42 AM
In the old thread the question was raised about books about the Seven Years War that are *not* about the British Navy or the French and Indian Wars.

The Seven Years War in Europe: 1756-1763 by Franz A.J. Szabo was mentioned in the context, but I guess I'll leave it be after this reader review on Wargamer:
QuoteJust finished the above book. Let me save you the trouble and summarize: Frederick the great was an incompetent tyrant and , apparently, a coward who routinely fled from battles that his over rated Prussian Army constantly lost.  When prussia won a victory, it was only because of some type of fluke like a weather event, or a junior Austrian officer misunderstanding an order.  Austria routinely dominated the incompetent Frederick whose Prussian Army only survived through sheer luck.  Fredericks reputataion only developed due to Prussian propogandists.

I guess I should have read the author's bio first. Professor of Austrian Studies, native Austrian, and dedicated his book to his two grandfathers who, as he proudly announces, both fought for Austria-hungary during WWI.

With critics like this I always wonder if the book is really so strongly biased or rather the reader was looking for a piece of hero worshipping and can't handle the truth(TM). In this case the 'caveat' applies even more strongly because, to put it bluntly, the entire Kingdom of Prussia survived due to sheer luck. That Old Fritz was reduced to ordering his ministers to get peace at any price is as close to an stablished fact as one can get.

That's true, but he survived seven years fighting nearly all of Europe. There's no way that was due to just luck.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 16, 2009, 04:44:09 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 16, 2009, 04:12:38 PMThat's true, but he survived seven years fighting nearly all of Europe. There's no way that was due to just luck.

As Napoleon's old maxim goes, "I'd rather fight allies than be one."  Frederick's "luck" of sorts was based rather heavily on the fact that the coalition aligned against him never had a unified goal, never a unified command, always had competing interests and, in many cases, political conflict between the commanders at the front and politicians at the back essentially guaranteed that he was never really all that pressured.

Add in the fact that Russia, at the peak of its success (and when Frederick was probably quite ready to commit suicide) had a few drastic foreign policy shifts from the Czarina dying, then the new Czar allying, then the new Czar being murdered and replaced with a neutral Russia, and you have a recipe for his state's survival.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 16, 2009, 04:46:44 PM
As for the book, Syt, the guy who wrote that appears to be after the sort of hero-worship that Alatriste mentioned.  The book is certainly worth reading--especially as it uses a bevy of primary sources in their original language, rather than second-hand materials.

The book is incredibly unflattering about Frederick, but backs everything up with solid research--something not everyone who's a Frederick "The Great" fanboy can tolerate.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on March 16, 2009, 05:00:26 PM
I liked old Fred's psycho daddy.

I mean, how could you not like someone who collected giants as a hobby?  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 16, 2009, 05:18:15 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 16, 2009, 05:00:26 PM
I liked old Fred's psycho daddy.

I mean, how could you not like someone who collected giants as a hobby?  :D

I also like the bit on Wiki that the Prussian treasury surplus was in his basement. All he needed was some coffee cans to put it in.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on March 17, 2009, 08:27:44 AM
Quote from: Cindy Brady on March 16, 2009, 05:18:15 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 16, 2009, 05:00:26 PM
I liked old Fred's psycho daddy.

I mean, how could you not like someone who collected giants as a hobby?  :D

I also like the bit on Wiki that the Prussian treasury surplus was in his basement. All he needed was some coffee cans to put it in.

All he has to do is detail his giants to yell "get off my lawn!" and he'd be perfect.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on March 21, 2009, 08:39:02 AM
Just received my American-edition copy of The Third Reich at War by Richard Evans yesterday.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 21, 2009, 08:44:43 AM
Finished End of the Old Order by Frederick Kagan. Pretty good, but his constant use of Caine Mutiny references regarding Mack's leadership was a bit....weird. Also, the constant sniping at other Napoleonic authors in the footnotes was petulant. Just call them a doo-doo head and get it over with.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on March 21, 2009, 08:56:46 AM
About half-way through The Swimming Pool Library by Alan Hollinghurst. Very delightful read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 03:00:22 PM
Update: Finished The Swimming Pool Library, one of the most gripping, wonderfully and richly written modern books I have read in years. Thanks for an amazing recommendation, guys. I really enjoyed that one - now can't wait to get my hands on Alan Hollinghurst's other books (which, I am led to believe, have received an even greater critical applause than his debut). Delicious.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on March 22, 2009, 03:18:50 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 17, 2009, 08:27:44 AM
Quote from: Cindy Brady on March 16, 2009, 05:18:15 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 16, 2009, 05:00:26 PM
I liked old Fred's psycho daddy.

I mean, how could you not like someone who collected giants as a hobby?  :D

I also like the bit on Wiki that the Prussian treasury surplus was in his basement. All he needed was some coffee cans to put it in.

All he has to do is detail his giants to yell "get off my lawn!" and he'd be perfect.
I snorted some water reading this!  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on March 22, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Currently reading Beevor's book on the Spanish Civil war.  I was surprised how nasty the nationalists were.  I mean they were beating the Republic in warcrimes hand over first.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on March 22, 2009, 04:12:26 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 16, 2009, 04:44:09 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 16, 2009, 04:12:38 PMThat's true, but he survived seven years fighting nearly all of Europe. There's no way that was due to just luck.

As Napoleon's old maxim goes, "I'd rather fight allies than be one."  Frederick's "luck" of sorts was based rather heavily on the fact that the coalition aligned against him never had a unified goal, never a unified command, always had competing interests and, in many cases, political conflict between the commanders at the front and politicians at the back essentially guaranteed that he was never really all that pressured.

Add in the fact that Russia, at the peak of its success (and when Frederick was probably quite ready to commit suicide) had a few drastic foreign policy shifts from the Czarina dying, then the new Czar allying, then the new Czar being murdered and replaced with a neutral Russia, and you have a recipe for his state's survival.

If Elizabeth hadn't died precisely when she did, there would have been no Prussia.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 22, 2009, 04:15:54 PM
Quote from: Scipio on March 22, 2009, 04:12:26 PMIf Elizabeth hadn't died precisely when she did, there would have been no Prussia.

:yes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:32:39 PM
It's funny how you guys ridicule me for liking "gay books" whereas all you read apparently are books about some obscure wars.  :D

Does anyone here ever read fiction?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on March 22, 2009, 04:35:40 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:32:39 PM
It's funny how you guys ridicule me for liking "gay books" whereas all you read apparently are books about some obscure wars.  :D

Does anyone here ever read fiction?

What... is... fic-tion?  :o
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on March 22, 2009, 04:40:15 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:32:39 PM
It's funny how you guys ridicule me for liking "gay books" whereas all you read apparently are books about some obscure wars.  :D

Does anyone here ever read fiction?

The big difference between, say, me and you, is that I don't read books about fat Russian-American lawyer newlyweds living in Mississippi, whereas you are just aching to read books about closeted homosexual Polish lawyers.  Since none of us here are, in fact Frederick of Prussia, or Elizabeth of Russia, or any of those dead generals, I should think your comparison is inapposite, and in fact, technically speaking, fucking lame.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:43:56 PM
Quote from: Scipio on March 22, 2009, 04:40:15 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:32:39 PM
It's funny how you guys ridicule me for liking "gay books" whereas all you read apparently are books about some obscure wars.  :D

Does anyone here ever read fiction?

The big difference between, say, me and you, is that I don't read books about fat Russian-American lawyer newlyweds living in Mississippi, whereas you are just aching to read books about closeted homosexual Polish lawyers.  Since none of us here are, in fact Frederick of Prussia, or Elizabeth of Russia, or any of those dead generals, I should think your comparison is inapposite, and in fact, technically speaking, fucking lame.
Frederick of Prussia didn't have any sex. On the other hand, he was slim and apparently fit. So I can see how you can only partially identify with him.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 22, 2009, 04:44:14 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:32:39 PM
It's funny how you guys ridicule me for liking "gay books" whereas all you read apparently are books about some obscure wars.  :D

Does anyone here ever read fiction?
These "obscure" wars effect us to this day, how much do your "gay" books effect us?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 22, 2009, 04:46:46 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Currently reading Beevor's book on the Spanish Civil war.  I was surprised how nasty the nationalists were.  I mean they were beating the Republic in warcrimes hand over first.

I never could finish that book. After about 100 pages of everybody is a dickhead, I just put it aside.

Of course on the internet, I support Franco, because that pisses off the greatest number of Euros.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 22, 2009, 04:47:27 PM
Quote from: Scipio on March 22, 2009, 04:40:15 PM
The big difference between, say, me and you, is that I don't read books about fat Russian-American lawyer newlyweds living in Mississippi

Don't be so quick there - the concept there has real promise in a Grisham meets Ignatius J. Reilly sort of way.  You write it and I'll option the film rights.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 22, 2009, 04:49:42 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:32:39 PM
It's funny how you guys ridicule me for liking "gay books" whereas all you read apparently are books about some obscure wars.  :D

Books about Frederick are gay books about obscure wars.  How bout them apples.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:50:51 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 22, 2009, 04:44:14 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:32:39 PM
It's funny how you guys ridicule me for liking "gay books" whereas all you read apparently are books about some obscure wars.  :D

Does anyone here ever read fiction?
These "obscure" wars effect us to this day, how much do your "gay" books effect us?
One of the acknowledged goals of literary fiction is to enrich our vocabulary, make our communication skills more robust and precise.

Of course, judging from your writing skills, I am willing to concede fine prose doesn't "effect" us at all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:53:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 22, 2009, 04:49:42 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:32:39 PM
It's funny how you guys ridicule me for liking "gay books" whereas all you read apparently are books about some obscure wars.  :D

Books about Frederick are gay books about obscure wars.  How bout them apples.
I'm just disappointed that hardly anyone here (maybe except the gays, Savonarola, Brazen and Malthus) seems to be reading fiction anymore. History books are all fine and dandy, but they are (with some notable exceptions) all about information, rather than literary skills.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 22, 2009, 04:58:29 PM
I was thinking of cracking some fiction but since Marti is having a hissy fit, I'll read more non-fiction.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 22, 2009, 05:00:15 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:53:42 PM
I'm just disappointed that hardly anyone here (maybe except the gays, Savonarola, Brazen and Malthus) seems to be reading fiction anymore. History books are all fine and dandy, but they are (with some notable exceptions) all about information, rather than literary skills.

I actually just started to read a bunch of fiction for the first time in years.  In large part b/c of the new Kindle.  Luckily I was able to extract recommendations from the old board right before it went down.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 22, 2009, 05:07:18 PM
I read fiction, though I don't have much time to do so anymore. If I have time to read I'm usually reading history in order to prep myself for the next era we're going to go over in class.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on March 22, 2009, 05:10:23 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:53:42 PM
I'm just disappointed that hardly anyone here (maybe except the gays, Savonarola, Brazen and Malthus) seems to be reading fiction anymore. History books are all fine and dandy, but they are (with some notable exceptions) all about information, rather than literary skills.
I get enjoyment out of both fiction and non-fiction, but when walking through a bookstore fiction doesn't attract my eye as much as the other.

I read McCarthy's The Road late last year and absolutely loved it, but I haven't any fiction since.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 05:17:57 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 22, 2009, 05:07:18 PM
I read fiction, though I don't have much time to do so anymore. If I have time to read I'm usually reading history in order to prep myself for the next era we're going to go over in class.
So you are just one chapter ahead of your class? :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 22, 2009, 05:19:15 PM
Hide Tim's teacher editions!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 22, 2009, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 05:17:57 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 22, 2009, 05:07:18 PM
I read fiction, though I don't have much time to do so anymore. If I have time to read I'm usually reading history in order to prep myself for the next era we're going to go over in class.
So you are just one chapter ahead of your class? :D

I'm not reading their text book, I could do that in 5 minutes. I'm reading scholarly works on the subject. I've read at least 4 books on the Civil War in the last two weeks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 22, 2009, 08:00:21 PM
Bought Cammy P's Vamps & Tramps.

One of the first lines in the first chapter:

"The penis. Should we keep it? Or should we cut it off and throw it away?."

:diaryfactory:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on March 23, 2009, 12:06:55 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:53:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 22, 2009, 04:49:42 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 04:32:39 PM
It's funny how you guys ridicule me for liking "gay books" whereas all you read apparently are books about some obscure wars.  :D

Books about Frederick are gay books about obscure wars.  How bout them apples.
I'm just disappointed that hardly anyone here (maybe except the gays, Savonarola, Brazen and Malthus) seems to be reading fiction anymore. History books are all fine and dandy, but they are (with some notable exceptions) all about information, rather than literary skills.
Seems more like you are consciously ignoring certain posters.  Besides, this is still a child of Paradox, you'd expect history nuts.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on March 23, 2009, 12:26:28 AM
I just finished Fred Anderson's Crucible of War about the French and Indian War. I thought it was excellent.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 23, 2009, 04:18:29 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2009, 03:00:22 PM
Update: Finished The Swimming Pool Library, one of the most gripping, wonderfully and richly written modern books I have read in years. Thanks for an amazing recommendation, guys. I really enjoyed that one - now can't wait to get my hands on Alan Hollinghurst's other books (which, I am led to believe, have received an even greater critical applause than his debut). Delicious.

The Folding Star and The Line of Beauty are excellent.  The Spell isn't.

I don't have an issue with gay books, so long as they're well-written and I think Hollinghurst's one of the best prose authors around. 

The best comparison I can think of is someone like V.S. Naipaul.  He's very 19th century in my opinion.

Edit:  And I'm halfway through Dubliners.  So far there's some incredibly poignant stories here, whcih surprises me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on March 24, 2009, 04:07:11 PM
I'm reading Berek ("The Game of Tag") by Marcin Szczygielski, a Polish author. The protagonist seems to frequent the same club in Warsaw that I do every Friday, and he seems to be having the same tendecy to fall in love with the wrong kind of men (with his latest 'He-must-be-The One'-who-didn't-call-after-a-one-night-stand having actually the same name as my "failed bf"). I feel bizarre.

Especially as I have already invited my mum to a play based on the book (before I read it).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: AnchorClanker on March 24, 2009, 04:14:14 PM
Marty,

I think you are purposefully ignoring that a good many historians are talented writers.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on March 24, 2009, 04:52:19 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on March 24, 2009, 04:14:14 PM
Marty,

I think you are purposefully ignoring that a good many historians are talented writers.  :(
I do not deny you are right. I just find fiction more entertaining, despite (or indeed, due to) its frequent incongruence and emotional appeal, whereas any writing, however good, of a non-fiction author (be it a historian or otherwise) always must follow the cold iron logic of facts and is judged from that perspective first and foremost. When art takes the back seat to science, it always suffers, so I prefer to separate the two. Reality is tedious. ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: AnchorClanker on March 25, 2009, 01:43:36 PM
History, well written, can and will equal fiction in elegance and depth of human emotion.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on March 25, 2009, 05:20:13 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on March 25, 2009, 01:43:36 PM
History, well written, can and will equal fiction in elegance and depth of human emotion.
Gibbon comes to mind.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on March 27, 2009, 08:20:59 AM
Reading All Quiet on the Western Front again for my Ethics class. Also I've read through some of the beginning of The Third Reich at War.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on March 27, 2009, 08:45:09 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 24, 2009, 04:52:19 PM
I do not deny you are right. I just find fiction more entertaining, despite (or indeed, due to) its frequent incongruence and emotional appeal, whereas any writing, however good, of a non-fiction author (be it a historian or otherwise) always must follow the cold iron logic of facts and is judged from that perspective first and foremost. When art takes the back seat to science, it always suffers, so I prefer to separate the two. Reality is tedious. ;)

Nonsense.  Fiction is much more predictable and more tedious than history.  The facts of history are very rarely logical.  I mean the King of France giving his army over to a teenage girl?  WTF?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 27, 2009, 08:47:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 27, 2009, 08:45:09 AM
Nonsense.  Fiction is much more predictable and more tedious than history.  The facts of history are very rarely logical.  I mean the King of France giving his army over to a teenage girl?  WTF?

I don't know how you can make this statement.  As if illogical things never happen in fiction...

Also, I'd actually say that I hate when historian brings visible emotionality to their works.  Then they aren't even maintaining the pretense of objectivity.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on March 27, 2009, 08:51:17 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 27, 2009, 08:47:53 AM
I don't know how you can make this statement.  As if illogical things never happen in fiction...

Also, I'd actually say that I hate when historian brings visible emotionality to their works.  Then they aren't even maintaining the pretense of objectivity.

Illogical things do happen in fiction, but they often are not believable and tend to be eye-rolling moments 'yeah right'.  You have to accept the bizarre in history because they actually did happen.

But human history is not a tale of coldly objective people, so telling it in a coldly objective way is not an accurate portrayal.   Maybe if you were writing the history of robots that would be an accurate way to relate it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 27, 2009, 08:55:32 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 27, 2009, 08:51:17 AM
Illogical things do happen in fiction, but they often are not believable and tend to be eye-rolling moments 'yeah right'.  You have to accept the bizarre in history because they actually did happen.

Actually if you recognize that people do illogical things...illogical things in fiction (when it is clear that the writer isn't simply a poor writer) should ring a bell. :huh:

Quote from: Valmy on March 27, 2009, 08:51:17 AMBut human history is not a tale of coldly objective people, so telling it in a coldly objective way is not an accurate portrayal.   Maybe if you were writing the history of robots that would be an accurate way to relate it.

You can try to write objectively about tumultuous events.  When you have no horse in the race, so to speak, it gets easier.  I'm not at all sure how that forces historical actors to be cold and objective. :mellow:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 27, 2009, 01:28:53 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on March 25, 2009, 01:43:36 PM
History, well written, can and will equal fiction in elegance and depth of human emotion.
Yeah.  I'm actually the opposite of Marti.  Because I spend my days reading for my course I enjoy reading non-fiction (mostly history and theology) to relax.

QuoteNonsense.  Fiction is much more predictable and more tedious than history.
I think this is more true of genre fiction because, generally, there are more rules.  I think fiction that's more about the writing than the plotting tends to be less predictable and more fun.  Salman Rushdie seems to me a really good example of that, where the force and skill of the writing carries you on to the degree where you don't really care what happens next to the characters you care what's going to happen to the next sentence.

But they're fundamentally doing different things and trying to achieve different things with the same medium so I don't think any simple comparison will ever work.  Though I love history with a bit of character in it.  I enjoy reading the Robin Lane Fox that I've read because you really get a sense of how much fun he's having recounting all this stuff (same for Suetonius); I love Alastair Horne's books on France because there's a real sense of him loving his subject that comes across time and again.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 30, 2009, 02:18:09 PM
GAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! :bleeding:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 30, 2009, 02:22:31 PM
 :huh:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 30, 2009, 02:26:20 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 30, 2009, 02:22:31 PM
:huh:
Splitting the book into three pieces, just because it's gonna be longer than the Bible, what a bunch Goddamned pussies. It can be done in two.

And the name, how horribly generic, there are so many more interesting lines of prophesy that could be used.

http://www.brandonsanderson.com/article/56/Splitting-AMOL
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 30, 2009, 02:27:15 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 30, 2009, 02:26:34 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 30, 2009, 02:18:09 PM
GAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! :bleeding:

Does this have anything to do with Pride & Prejudice & Zombies?
No, I've read the first 200 pages and it's good so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 31, 2009, 11:13:08 AM
Reading Ralph Peters' "Red Army", a novel about WP invading Germany, from the Soviet perspective.

Still in the preliminaries, but high literature this is not (nor meant to be). The situation seems to in the 80s, after the mid-range missiles were removed. Political background is unclear. NATO seems to know WP is preparing something big, but, from comments of characters, seem locked in bickering.

Characters so far are a few privates (a farmboy who likes blues and rock, and a womanizer from Leningrad), the commander of the northern front (facing NORTHAG), a descendant of a long line of officers, various commanders, and a head of intelligence (a descendant of Jews, facing antisemitism in the forces) plus other cliché Russian soldier types. Polish officers look forward to kicking West German ass, East Germans seem unsure. Russian privates look forward tot he adventure of fighting the class enemy.

The book covers the section of NORTHAG. The plan of the Soviets is intriguing:
- the flanks advance to the borders between troops of different NATO nations, trying to exploit the friction there. Goal is to threaten an envelopment of West German forces.
- the center hesitates and when it looks that NATO troops are moved from there to the flanks they strike there in full force
- overall goal is to cause such a crisis in the north that NATO must move troops away from CENTAG where the WP main blow in Germany is scheduled
- the airforce will focus on destroying NATO air assets at first instead of providing ground support
- the picturesque but worthless town of Lüneburg (held by Dutch) is scheduled for total destruction to demonstrate what happens if Germans resist. Other cities where fighting is light are to be left as intact as possible - rationale: West Germans have become comfortable in their prosperity and may be not very willing to see much destruction, therefore easy to be morally beaten

I think the author (former CIA expert on Soviet forces) has a point re: German willingness to fight. The peace movement was strong in the 80s, and I doubt people had much fight in them. Besides, West Germans firing at East Germans is a big unknown in the equation; though by the 80s the countries had grown so much apart that I think most westerners thought the easterners were "foreigners".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on March 31, 2009, 03:40:23 PM
It's very silly.  The author seems to think that the Germans and Dutch would be lousy soldiers.  Something I do happen to agree with,  though I think they would be poor soliders I don't think they would simply fold with the idiotic Luneburg thingy.  One interesting thing is that the author does not name any military hardware.  We now know what the Soviet Union's plans and it involved lots of nukes.  Nukes never seem to be a major element in these stories of Warsaw Pact vs Nato.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on April 01, 2009, 09:44:43 AM
Napoleonic books recently:

Fighting Napoleon by Charles J. Esdaile. Supposedly an account of the guerrilla war in Spain, but spends the first 50 pages blabbering about previous works in the field and jabbering that English writers have generally ignored the Spanish viewpoint. CRY ME A FUCKING RIVER, YOU BLOWHARD. I stopped there.

Worst 4.98 spent in the last month.

How Far From Austerlitz?: Napoleon 1805-1815 by Alistair Horne. A generally entertaining read. However, suffers from English writer-itis.

Passable read.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on April 01, 2009, 09:52:15 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 27, 2009, 08:47:53 AM
Also, I'd actually say that I hate when historian brings visible emotionality to their works.  Then they aren't even maintaining the pretense of objectivity.
Actually, it is the pretense of objectivity that makes a lot of history horrible, IMO.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on April 01, 2009, 12:02:53 PM
reading Rawi Hage's http://www.amazon.com/Niros-Game-Rawi-Hage/dp/1581952236 (http://www.amazon.com/Niros-Game-Rawi-Hage/dp/1581952236)"DeNiro's Game". Has nothing to do with Bobby D. different guy. Interesting portrait of Christian neighbourhood in Beirut during war. Apparently smoking and drinking are pretty much all that's left to do. Entertaining read thus far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on April 01, 2009, 02:52:32 PM
Quote from: PDH on April 01, 2009, 09:52:15 AM
Actually, it is the pretense of objectivity that makes a lot of history horrible, IMO.

I don't. I've no desire to run around Timmy fanwanks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 01, 2009, 05:56:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 31, 2009, 03:40:23 PM
It's very silly.  The author seems to think that the Germans and Dutch would be lousy soldiers.  Something I do happen to agree with,  though I think they would be poor soliders I don't think they would simply fold with the idiotic Luneburg thingy.  One interesting thing is that the author does not name any military hardware.  We now know what the Soviet Union's plans and it involved lots of nukes.  Nukes never seem to be a major element in these stories of Warsaw Pact vs Nato.

Try the short stories.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: DontSayBanana on April 01, 2009, 07:12:03 PM
I finally started digging through my piles of books that I've been given for various holidays. Michael Scott's "The Magician (The Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel)" might just need to disappear quietly.

The Comte de Saint-Germain as a disco star. Machiavelli in charge of the Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure. 'Nuff said. :bleeding:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on April 01, 2009, 07:14:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2009, 02:52:32 PM
I don't. I've no desire to run around Timmy fanwanks.
It is a good thing that there is a range then, that one might be able to read history that is not dispassionate, dry, and still be good history that Tim would hate because it is nuanced and intellectual.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 01, 2009, 10:49:51 PM
Quote from: PDH on April 01, 2009, 07:14:15 PM
It is a good thing that there is a range then, that one might be able to read history that is not dispassionate, dry, and still be good history that Tim would hate because it is nuanced and intellectual.

How about you suggest a "nuanced and intellectual"  history and I'll read it and report back on whether I hate it or like it. I expect it will be the later.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Alatriste on April 02, 2009, 03:16:58 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 01, 2009, 09:44:43 AM
Napoleonic books recently:

Fighting Napoleon by Charles J. Esdaile. Supposedly an account of the guerrilla war in Spain, but spends the first 50 pages blabbering about previous works in the field and jabbering that English writers have generally ignored the Spanish viewpoint. CRY ME A FUCKING RIVER, YOU BLOWHARD. I stopped there.

Worst 4.98 spent in the last month.

How Far From Austerlitz?: Napoleon 1805-1815 by Alistair Horne. A generally entertaining read. However, suffers from English writer-itis.

Passable read.

I have read one Esdaille's book on guerrillas (perhaps the same) and it was really funny. In essence he proceeded to

a) Maintain that English writers have generally ignored the Spanish viewpoint.

b) Maintain that French writers had got all wrong, even those that had fought the guerrillas themselves in 1808-1814.

c) Maintain that guerrillas in fact had been counterproductive and caused more harm to the Allies than to the French.

I found the thesis very weak. Esdaille found easily contemporary sources telling that guerrillas did rob and abuse the peasants, conscript young men against their will, hide in the hills and rarely fight the French, encourage desertion from regular army units that couldn't enforce discipline without causing men to leave ranks and join the guerrillas, etc, etc... but such a view is so unconsistent with French sources from the period that I couldn't take them seriously.

War is a nasty business and guerrilla war is even nastier, but jumping from that nastiness to concluding that guerrillas actually helped the French because they turned the peasants against the Allies and eroded regular army's disicpline, as Esdaille does, is a jump far too long.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on April 02, 2009, 07:40:51 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on April 02, 2009, 03:16:58 AM


I have read one Esdaille's book on guerrillas (perhaps the same) and it was really funny. In essence he proceeded to

a) Maintain that English writers have generally ignored the Spanish viewpoint.

b) Maintain that French writers had got all wrong, even those that had fought the guerrillas themselves in 1808-1814.

c) Maintain that guerrillas in fact had been counterproductive and caused more harm to the Allies than to the French.

I found the thesis very weak. Esdaille found easily contemporary sources telling that guerrillas did rob and abuse the peasants, conscript young men against their will, hide in the hills and rarely fight the French, encourage desertion from regular army units that couldn't enforce discipline without causing men to leave ranks and join the guerrillas, etc, etc... but such a view is so unconsistent with French sources from the period that I couldn't take them seriously.

War is a nasty business and guerrilla war is even nastier, but jumping from that nastiness to concluding that guerrillas actually helped the French because they turned the peasants against the Allies and eroded regular army's disicpline, as Esdaille does, is a jump far too long.

I didn't even get  to his other 2 theories. The dude's writing was so annoying and whiny, I gave up. I'll give it another try, since the meat of his argument does sound hilarious.

If I still had my 'Cavalcade of Crap" thread, it would go in there.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 03, 2009, 04:41:35 PM
Finished Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. Very amusing. I quite recommend it.  :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 06, 2009, 10:28:58 AM
Bought two more books today. :weep:

McCarthy's The Road
Robert Dallek: Nixon and Kissinger - Partners in Power (I also consider picking up his "John F. Kennedy - an unfinished Life")
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on April 06, 2009, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 06, 2009, 10:28:58 AM
Robert Dallek: Nixon and Kissinger - Partners in Power (I also consider picking up his "John F. Kennedy - an unfinished Life")

How did he get enough time off from battling the Doctor to write a book?  :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 06, 2009, 07:38:45 PM
Been reading some college textbooks on the Holocaust. So depressing.  :cry:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 06, 2009, 08:16:38 PM
I'm getting ready to read "The Memoirs of William Tecumseh Sherman", as well as his collected correspondences.
Anyone have any recommendations for Sherman biographies? I'd prefer as balanced or as pro-Sherman as possible.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Alatriste on April 07, 2009, 12:57:43 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on April 06, 2009, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 06, 2009, 10:28:58 AM
Robert Dallek: Nixon and Kissinger - Partners in Power (I also consider picking up his "John F. Kennedy - an unfinished Life")

How did he get enough time off from battling the Doctor to write a book?  :unsure:

Any AI worth its salt should be able to find 4 alien civilizations, decypher the structure of 8 complex proteines and calculate the exact value of pi to the 10^45 decimal between one word spoken by the doctor and the next.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Korea on April 07, 2009, 01:02:15 AM
I started reading the 52 series again. One of my favorites!


Um, I forgot to check if we have the comic thread. Oops.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 07, 2009, 01:08:07 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on April 06, 2009, 03:27:57 PM
How did he get enough time off from battling the Doctor to write a book?  :unsure:

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 07, 2009, 08:45:38 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 06, 2009, 08:16:38 PM
I'm getting ready to read "The Memoirs of William Tecumseh Sherman", as well as his collected correspondences.
Anyone have any recommendations for Sherman biographies? I'd prefer as balanced or as pro-Sherman as possible.

Sherman is very quotable. My favorite:

Quote"Grant stood by me when I was crazy, and I stood by him when he was drunk, and now we stand by each other."

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 07, 2009, 10:57:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 06, 2009, 10:28:58 AM
Robert Dallek: Nixon and Kissinger - Partners in Power (I also consider picking up his "John F. Kennedy - an unfinished Life")
Let me know how that is.  I've almost bought it a few times.  I enjoyed the JFK biography.  I think it's fairer than the worship or pseudo-intellectual denigration - which is the historical equivalent of theatre that just tries to shock.

I'm reading 'A History of Histories' at the minute.  At the start of the Christian era (about a third of the way through), an excellent book.  It's problem is that it makes me want to then read the books which is expanding my never quelled amazon wish list :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on April 07, 2009, 05:09:49 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 06, 2009, 08:16:38 PM
I'm getting ready to read "The Memoirs of William Tecumseh Sherman", as well as his collected correspondences.
Anyone have any recommendations for Sherman biographies? I'd prefer as balanced or as pro-Sherman as possible.

Wait, there are people who are anti-Sherman?  Good Lord!  Who are they, Iranians?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on April 07, 2009, 05:12:25 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 01, 2009, 05:56:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 31, 2009, 03:40:23 PM
It's very silly.  The author seems to think that the Germans and Dutch would be lousy soldiers.  Something I do happen to agree with,  though I think they would be poor soliders I don't think they would simply fold with the idiotic Luneburg thingy.  One interesting thing is that the author does not name any military hardware.  We now know what the Soviet Union's plans and it involved lots of nukes.  Nukes never seem to be a major element in these stories of Warsaw Pact vs Nato.

Try the short stories.

What short stories?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Lettow77 on April 07, 2009, 08:07:31 PM
Just finished South to Posterity, and Panzer Leader. Jumping back into Flannery O'Conner's collected works, which I can only ever read a few of at a time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: syk on April 08, 2009, 04:49:35 AM
Just read A.S. Neill's "Last Man Alive" again, a favourite from my childhood. Raw, bloody, anarchic and pretty funny for all ages. Just found that there's a website with the whole book. http://members.tripod.com/thelastmanalive/home.html (http://members.tripod.com/thelastmanalive/home.html)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 08, 2009, 04:51:47 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 07, 2009, 08:07:31 PMJumping back into Flannery O'Conner's collected works, which I can only ever read a few of at a time.

Yeah, she's quite the downer sometimes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on April 08, 2009, 06:26:47 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 06, 2009, 08:16:38 PM
I'm getting ready to read "The Memoirs of William Tecumseh Sherman", as well as his collected correspondences.
Anyone have any recommendations for Sherman biographies? I'd prefer as balanced or as pro-Sherman as possible.

http://www.amazon.com/Sherman-Soldiers-John-F-Marszalek/dp/0809327856/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239189892&sr=8-24
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on April 09, 2009, 06:58:03 PM
Translation of the Shahnameh Sheilbh linked to.  Fascinating stuff; love how some of the most ancient memories survive (mace-wielding pastoral-nomadist conqueror Feraydun, raised by a holy bull named "Barmayeh", reminiscient of both Romulus and Indian mythology), while all of Median and Achaemenid history seems to be a blur far more distant than the Levant is to the Old Testament.  I think the Arab kind with "twin snakes" coming out of his shoulders (a surprisingly disturbing image) might be some kind of memory of the Neo-Assyrians, with the twin snakes perhaps relating to the wings of a lamassu, though this is pure speculation). 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 11, 2009, 02:10:19 AM
Finished The Road. Been a while since I tore through a book in just a few days.

Very good book, but I'll have to think about whether or not I liked the positive twist at the end.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 11, 2009, 07:56:39 AM
Quote from: Scipio on April 08, 2009, 06:26:47 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 06, 2009, 08:16:38 PM
I'm getting ready to read "The Memoirs of William Tecumseh Sherman", as well as his collected correspondences.
Anyone have any recommendations for Sherman biographies? I'd prefer as balanced or as pro-Sherman as possible.

http://www.amazon.com/Sherman-Soldiers-John-F-Marszalek/dp/0809327856/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239189892&sr=8-24

Thanks counselor.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on April 11, 2009, 09:05:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 11, 2009, 02:10:19 AM
Very good book, but I'll have to think about whether or not I liked the positive twist at the end.

If anything it was refreshing after the non-stop depression that book induced in me.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: lustindarkness on April 11, 2009, 11:38:42 AM
World War Z, An Oral History Of The Zombie War. Surprisingly good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: lustindarkness on April 11, 2009, 11:41:00 AM
Oh, also read The Bear and the Dragon(?), I think the only Tom Clancy Jack Ryan novel I have not read is Red Rabbit. I like his books, (so does hollywood <_<)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on April 11, 2009, 10:03:00 PM
Halfway through Dawkins' The God Delusion, and I just received Hitchens' God Is Not Great in the mail today. :thumbsup:
Hitchens is my favorite asshole. :wub:

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 11, 2009, 10:06:46 PM
I prefer Hitchens' argument.  Even if God exists I'm still opposed to him :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on April 11, 2009, 10:25:22 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 11, 2009, 10:06:46 PM
I prefer Hitchens' argument.  Even if God exists I'm still opposed to him :lol:
Yes, he is quite adamant about it.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 14, 2009, 10:37:33 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 07, 2009, 10:57:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 06, 2009, 10:28:58 AM
Robert Dallek: Nixon and Kissinger - Partners in Power (I also consider picking up his "John F. Kennedy - an unfinished Life")
Let me know how that is.  I've almost bought it a few times.  I enjoyed the JFK biography.  I think it's fairer than the worship or pseudo-intellectual denigration - which is the historical equivalent of theatre that just tries to shock.

I like it so far. I finished the first part (ca. 85 of the 600 pages), lining out the way of Kissinger and Nixon into the White House, with the last part focusing on the 1968 election campaign. The book itself focuses, naturally, on their impact on foreign policy.

The author's own opinion is summarized on page 81:
QuoteCircumstance and shared interest in great foreign policy issues was the ostensible bond bringing Nixon and Kissinger together. But the connection rested on larger commonalities. True, their backgrounds and experience could not have been more different: the small-town Southern California Quaker who gained prominence through political combat and the German-Jewish émigré whose innate brilliance elevated him to the front rank of American academics. But they were as much alike as they were different: both self-serving characters with grandiose dreams of recasting world affairs.

Their coming together also represented a union of two outsiders who distrusted establishment liberals: Nixon, their greatantagonist, and Kissinger, the academic, who was held at arm's length by the Kennedy-Johnson administrations. In addition, harsh life experiences had made both men cynical about people's motives and encouraged convictions that outdoing opponents required a relaxed view of scruples. Ironically, their cynicism would also make them rivals who could not satisfy their aspirations without each other.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 19, 2009, 01:11:05 PM
There's a David Gemmel fantasy award that fans can vote for.

The fields already been winnowed from 90~ to a final 5.

Joe Abercrombie's Last Argument of Kings
Juliet Marillier's Heir to Sevenwaters
Brandon Sanderson's The Hero of Ages
Andrzej Sapkowski's Blood of Elves
Brent Weeks's The Way of Shadows

Click here to vote
http://gemmellaward.com/
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on April 19, 2009, 01:16:21 PM
Any good fiction on the Copper and Neolithic ages?  I'll settle for Bronze. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 26, 2009, 07:26:23 PM
Soon to be seen at a bookstore near you! :w00t:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2009%2F04%2F23%2Farticle-0-049F70E1000005DC-880_468x235_popup.jpg&hash=212a1748d4262dc26e8d154fac24499bc0c9564e)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on April 26, 2009, 07:34:35 PM
Five minutes?  But I want it now.   :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on April 27, 2009, 06:38:34 AM
Great, shoddy quickie books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: saskganesh on April 28, 2009, 09:16:16 AM
it's like a hi tech photocopier. progress!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on April 28, 2009, 10:33:43 AM
Was reading a book on the history of American foods, which is pretty good. but I lent it to a friend of mine so I can't get the author or title.

I'm reading Tom Clancy's book on American Special Forces and also Terry Brooks' latest Shanarra book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 28, 2009, 05:08:52 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 26, 2009, 07:34:35 PM
Five minutes?  But I want it now.   :mad:
Go have a coffee.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on April 28, 2009, 09:24:36 PM
reading an odd book. Diary of a Drag Queen. short version? A bitchy old Queen decides she needs to look the part and starts tarting up as a Tranny for sex only with "straight guys" all this thru chat rooms, and craigslist (back in the heady days of 04 mind you) as his fantasy had always been of The Straight Guy. Some staright guys are desperate enough to pretend you are just the ugly chick you appear to be.

Also there is an interesting study of poor vs. rich and race relations amongst gays of the straight, closeteds, bi, whatever stripe. apparently class crosses all those pockets and takes all yr silver.

Interesting bio in that the guy is a real asshole and professes peace with that, and his unflinching self-loathing that seeps from the pages like acid flashbacks from an HST book. As a man or a woman he's an asshole, and he's ok with that, and oddly I'm glued to the book, like watching a car wreck.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2009, 01:17:54 PM
Saw this at the store, and Monkeybutt's voice popped up in my head, saying buy it. So I did.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coverbrowser.com%2Fimage%2Fbestselling-sci-fi-fantasy-2008%2F396-7.jpg&hash=c29b653422473ac2f0ad32a30fe6d86b85a97600)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 19, 2009, 02:20:19 PM
Good lad.

Remember, you don't really have to read the rest the books. The three in that omnibus are just fine by themselves.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 19, 2009, 02:21:45 PM
The Silver Spike is an acceptable book.  But avoid the Books of the South.  BotS=Teh sux
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on May 19, 2009, 02:29:20 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 19, 2009, 02:21:45 PM
avoid the Books of the South.  BotS=Teh sux

You are : teh fail.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 19, 2009, 03:34:11 PM
Quote from: ulmont on May 19, 2009, 02:29:20 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 19, 2009, 02:21:45 PM
avoid the Books of the South.  BotS=Teh sux

You are : teh fail.
No, YOU are : teh Jaron.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on May 19, 2009, 03:37:21 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 19, 2009, 03:34:11 PM
No, YOU are : teh Jaron.

Nah, he's the one with the Hamster avatar.

The Books of the South give an interesting different backdrop to the Black Company that is missing in the first books.  In the first books, you have your generic pseudo-medieval setting (complete with fractured fairy tales for the story of the Lady and the Dominator).  In the later books, you have fantasy India, which is more interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 19, 2009, 03:39:05 PM
Quote from: ulmont on May 19, 2009, 03:37:21 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 19, 2009, 03:34:11 PM
No, YOU are : teh Jaron.

Nah, he's the one with the Hamster avatar.

The Books of the South give an interesting different backdrop to the Black Company that is missing in the first books.  In the first books, you have your generic pseudo-medieval setting (complete with fractured fairy tales for the story of the Lady and the Dominator).  In the later books, you have fantasy India, which is more interesting.
Long, convoluted, and boring.  The Lady was an unseen villain is far more interesting than the Lady as a housewife.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 19, 2009, 03:41:07 PM
Tell me about the Lady and the Dominator.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 19, 2009, 03:42:03 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 19, 2009, 03:41:07 PM
Tell me about the Lady and the Dominator.
You see when a man and a woman love each other very very much and get bored with the usual routine they decide to spice things up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 19, 2009, 03:49:40 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 19, 2009, 03:42:03 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 19, 2009, 03:41:07 PM
Tell me about the Lady and the Dominator.
You see when a man and a woman love each other very very much and get bored with the usual routine they decide to spice things up.

I see. Like in hit song Spice Up Your Life with pop sensation the Spice Girls.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 19, 2009, 03:53:47 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 19, 2009, 03:41:07 PM
Tell me about the Lady and the Dominator.

Look at my avatar. Really says it all.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grallon on May 19, 2009, 04:00:21 PM
I read The Judging Eye http://www.amazon.co.uk/Judging-Eye-Aspect-emperor-R-Scott-Bakker/dp/1841495379 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Judging-Eye-Aspect-emperor-R-Scott-Bakker/dp/1841495379) by Scott Bakker ovr the weekend.  This is the 1st of his "Aspect Emperor" trilogy that follows "The Prince of Nothing" trilogy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Nothing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Nothing).  For a board full of fantasy afficionados one would think others would have commented about it since it's certainly among the best fantasy written - period.  He's better than Martin or Erikson.  At times his prose reaches lyrical heights or philosophical depths one would expect from 'serious' works only.  And the world he's created is quite fascinating.  You can visit the official board here: http://forum.three-seas.com/index.php?sid=73d367d61416d89f03ffa03a09bff621




G.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 19, 2009, 04:02:23 PM
Quote from: Grallon on May 19, 2009, 04:00:21 PM
I read The Judging Eye http://www.amazon.co.uk/Judging-Eye-Aspect-emperor-R-Scott-Bakker/dp/1841495379 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Judging-Eye-Aspect-emperor-R-Scott-Bakker/dp/1841495379) by Scott Bakker ovr the weekend.  This is the 1st of his "Aspect Emperor" trilogy that follows "The Prince of Nothing" trilogy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Nothing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Nothing).  For a board full of fantasy afficionados one would think others would have commented about it since it's certainly among the best fantasy written - period.  He's better than Martin or Erikson.  At times his prose reaches lyrical heights or philosophical depths one would expect from 'serious' works only.  And the world he's created is quite fascinating.  You can visit the official board here: http://forum.three-seas.com/index.php?sid=73d367d61416d89f03ffa03a09bff621




G.

Looks interesting. I assume one should begin with the "Prince of Nothing" series?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grallon on May 19, 2009, 04:16:54 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 19, 2009, 04:02:23 PM


Looks interesting. I assume one should begin with the "Prince of Nothing" series?


Definately; this one is a 'filler' book as CC would say.  That is one need to know the background since it sets up the stage for the rest of the trilogy.  And the gods be praised, Bakker looks like he will finish this series before 2073.




G.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: AnchorClanker on May 19, 2009, 04:46:04 PM
Currently working through "The Noble Revolt", an account of the hows and whys the Earl of Warwick and the
Earl of Bedford and their friends began to undermine and confront the government of King Charles I.

I like the book, but it's irritating me how much of a bastard Warwick was.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 19, 2009, 04:47:59 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 19, 2009, 03:39:05 PM
Quote from: ulmont on May 19, 2009, 03:37:21 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 19, 2009, 03:34:11 PM
No, YOU are : teh Jaron.

Nah, he's the one with the Hamster avatar.

The Books of the South give an interesting different backdrop to the Black Company that is missing in the first books.  In the first books, you have your generic pseudo-medieval setting (complete with fractured fairy tales for the story of the Lady and the Dominator).  In the later books, you have fantasy India, which is more interesting.
Long, convoluted, and boring.  The Lady was an unseen villain is far more interesting than the Lady as a housewife.


<Spoiler for Timmay>

But you have Soulcatcher running amuck, which saves the books of the South.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on May 19, 2009, 05:17:59 PM
There's a new biography of Chang Kai-Shek out, anyone read it?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on May 19, 2009, 05:28:00 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on May 19, 2009, 05:17:59 PM
There's a new biography of Chang Kai-Shek out, anyone read it?

Executive summary:  Chiang was a dick.  Madame Chiang had a strap-on.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on May 19, 2009, 09:09:37 PM
Quote from: Scipio on May 19, 2009, 05:28:00 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on May 19, 2009, 05:17:59 PM
There's a new biography of Chang Kai-Shek out, anyone read it?

Executive summary:  Chiang was a dick.  Madame Chiang had a strap-on.

:lol: vintage Skippy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on May 27, 2009, 07:08:31 PM
I have read American Gods by Gaiman and liked it. Which of the others he has written should I read next ?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 27, 2009, 09:41:54 PM
Anansi Boys was better than American Gods.  And Neverwhere. 

I'm reading Stephen Baxters Manifold:Time. And some zombie book called Patient Zero.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Berkut on May 28, 2009, 03:12:26 PM
This sounds really good, going to have to pick it up.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/05/26/arts/entertainment-us-kanyewest.html?_r=2 (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/05/26/arts/entertainment-us-kanyewest.html?_r=2)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on May 29, 2009, 06:40:14 PM
Quote from: Berkut on May 28, 2009, 03:12:26 PM
This sounds really good, going to have to pick it up.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/05/26/arts/entertainment-us-kanyewest.html?_r=2 (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/05/26/arts/entertainment-us-kanyewest.html?_r=2)
:lmfao:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on May 30, 2009, 08:09:09 AM
The Black Tower by Louis Bayard.  It's a novel starring Vidocq, about the Lost Dauphin.  Fantastic atmosphere, but the pacing is awkward.  Strong characterization of Vidocq, but the main character is a cypher.

Drood, by Dan Simmons.  It's a fictional biography of CHarles DIckens's last five years of life, written by Wilkie Collins.  Pretty good, scary, amusing, etc.  Very typically Simmons.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on May 30, 2009, 02:58:00 PM
Has anyone read John Crawley's Ægypt books... The first one (Ægypt) starts kinda slow, but is getting really good towards the end. Do the others hold up?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 02, 2009, 02:27:44 AM
I just ordered:
Maps of War (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1847242065/ref=pd_luc_mri?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE)
Remarkable Maps: 100 Examples of How Cartography Defined, Changed and Stole the World (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1844860272/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE)
Cities of the World: A History in Maps (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0712348689/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE)
New Worlds: Maps from the Age of Discovery (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1905204809/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE)
To the Ends of the Earth: 100 Maps That Changed the World (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0715325396/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE)

Maps galore! :w00t:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on June 02, 2009, 12:06:21 PM
started "A Swell Looking Babe" by Jim Thompson. One I hadn't read. The only downside so far is the unimaginatively named main character "Dusty Rhodes". Otherwise, solid Thompson brand(tm) Noir.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 03, 2009, 06:01:26 PM
Awesome interview with Brandon Sanderson

http://www.bscreview.com/2009/06/brandon-sanderson-interview-bookexpo-america-2009-video/
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 03, 2009, 07:36:13 PM
The so far superb Voices of Morebath:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Voices-Morebath-Reformation-Rebellion-English/dp/0300098251

Basically it's a book by Reformation historian Eamon Duffy based on the parish accounts of one small village in Devonshire.  What makes the accounts interesting is that they were written by the priest and apparently were his notes to address the parish about the accounts of the various stores and wardens of the parish.  The priest was there from 1520 to 1574 so he covered most of the big events of the English Reformation and, luckily, is quite gregarious and free in his notes so you get the opinions of one man, a glimpse into a late medieval-early modern village as well as the accounts of the parish.

If I continue to enjoy this I may plunge more deeply into micro-history and get The Village of Cannibals and The Cheese and the Worms :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 03, 2009, 10:40:18 PM
The Village of Cannibals?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 04, 2009, 06:29:31 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 03, 2009, 10:40:18 PM
The Village of Cannibals?
Another micro-history, this time of a particularly shocking crime in rural, 19th century France:
http://www.amazon.com/Village-Cannibals-Studies-Cultural-History/dp/0674939018
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 08, 2009, 10:56:48 AM
Picked up at my preferred store over here while looking for a little guide for Fuerteventura:
A Splendid Exchange: How Trade Has Shaped the World from Prehistory to the Present (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Splendid-Exchange-Shaped-Prehistory-Present/dp/184354668X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244475629&sr=8-2) by William Bernstein.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 08, 2009, 01:27:50 PM
"The Most Glorious Fourth" - A book about Gettysburg and Vicksburg. Well written but didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on June 08, 2009, 03:22:41 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 03, 2009, 07:36:13 PM
If I continue to enjoy this I may plunge more deeply into micro-history and get The Village of Cannibals and The Cheese and the Worms :)

The Cheese and the Worms is very good, esp. if you enjoy the miller's esoterism. I can also recommend The Return of Martin Guerre (along with the film also).

I haven't read Le village des cannibales, but I read and enjoyed his Monde retrouvé de Louis-François Pinagot. Corbin showed up at the archives of his home departement, opened up a register, closed his eyes and picked a name and proceeded to reconstruct the universe of this no-longer anonymous man. A good lesson in history-writing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 08, 2009, 03:32:51 PM
Ironically given the BNP's victory I'm about 50 pages in in Derek Raymonds A State of Denmark:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/State-Denmark-Derek-Raymond/dp/185242947X
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 08, 2009, 03:33:52 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 08, 2009, 03:22:41 PMI can also recommend The Return of Martin Guerre (along with the film also).
Both are on my amazon wishlist.

Quote
I haven't read Le village des cannibales, but I read and enjoyed his Monde retrouvé de Louis-François Pinagot. Corbin showed up at the archives of his home departement, opened up a register, closed his eyes and picked a name and proceeded to reconstruct the universe of this no-longer anonymous man. A good lesson in history-writing.
I don't know if Corbin's been translated much.  I'll have a look though :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 09, 2009, 02:29:05 PM
If you're a fantasy fan, buy Warbreaker immediately.
This book has everything a fantasy fan can want. A
unique and detailed setting that feels alive. An
extremely original magic system and religious
background along with some fascinating characters.
My favorite is the God who doesn't believe in his
own religion.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dandossantos.com%2Fgallery%2Fillustrations%2Ffull_warbreaker.jpg&hash=f3b76a35289a862a3f837dcb783565d257910130)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Berkut on June 09, 2009, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 04, 2009, 06:29:31 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 03, 2009, 10:40:18 PM
The Village of Cannibals?
Another micro-history, this time of a particularly shocking crime in rural, 19th century France:
http://www.amazon.com/Village-Cannibals-Studies-Cultural-History/dp/0674939018



Hmmm, last victim of the Revolution?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 09, 2009, 02:40:53 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 09, 2009, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 04, 2009, 06:29:31 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 03, 2009, 10:40:18 PM
The Village of Cannibals?
Another micro-history, this time of a particularly shocking crime in rural, 19th century France:
http://www.amazon.com/Village-Cannibals-Studies-Cultural-History/dp/0674939018



Hmmm, last victim of the Revolution?

Eat the rich.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on June 09, 2009, 03:43:37 PM
I've been enjoying Philip Kerr's Berlin Noir series recently. I think he tries a little too hard to make the protagonist a bad ass, but that's a fairly minor complaint.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 09, 2009, 04:03:53 PM
Quote from: Kleves on June 09, 2009, 03:43:37 PM
I've been enjoying Philip Kerr's Berlin Noir series recently. I think he tries a little too hard to make the protagonist a bad ass, but that's a fairly minor complaint.

I really liked the Berlin Noir series as well, and my only complaint is that I wanted one set *during* the war.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on June 09, 2009, 05:03:23 PM
Just finished Manifold:Time by Stephen Baxter. Malenfaunt, the main character is always a jackoff.  Baxter also really hates NASA.

Starting a new series called The Eyrie Affair about someone going into a book and killing Jane Eyrie. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on June 09, 2009, 05:06:24 PM
Matthew Pearl- The Last Dickens.  Pretty damn good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 09, 2009, 06:06:39 PM
Anyone here read "Lincoln Emancipated"? If so, is it good?

http://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-Emancipated-President-Politics-Race/dp/0875803598

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on June 09, 2009, 06:11:09 PM
Reread Anathem by Stephenson.  I enjoyed it again, for different reasons than my first go around.  Though Stephenson still cannot wind up (a) book(s) properly, and it always seems rushed, the story and the ability to both understand yet feel an sense of closeness/otherness makes this a very interesting book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on June 09, 2009, 06:32:47 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 09, 2009, 06:11:09 PM
Reread Anathem by Stephenson.  I enjoyed it again, for different reasons than my first go around.  Though Stephenson still cannot wind up (a) book(s) properly, and it always seems rushed, the story and the ability to both understand yet feel an sense of closeness/otherness makes this a very interesting book.

I think that this one and the Baroque Cycle come closest to having actual endings.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Faeelin on June 09, 2009, 07:51:22 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 03, 2009, 07:36:13 PM
If I continue to enjoy this I may plunge more deeply into micro-history and get The Village of Cannibals and The Cheese and the Worms :)

Someone already recommended Martin Guerre, but can I toss Montaillou onto the list? It's one of the best insights i into life in a medieval village, and man, is it different than you'd expect.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 10, 2009, 09:16:39 AM
Quote from: Scipio on June 09, 2009, 06:32:47 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 09, 2009, 06:11:09 PM
Reread Anathem by Stephenson.  I enjoyed it again, for different reasons than my first go around.  Though Stephenson still cannot wind up (a) book(s) properly, and it always seems rushed, the story and the ability to both understand yet feel an sense of closeness/otherness makes this a very interesting book.

I think that this one and the Baroque Cycle come closest to having actual endings.

They demonstrate he's obviously worked on this problem. The worst offenders in this respect was Cryptonomicon and The Diamond Age, both of which just sort of ended while the story was still going;
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on June 10, 2009, 09:20:04 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 08, 2009, 03:22:41 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 03, 2009, 07:36:13 PM
If I continue to enjoy this I may plunge more deeply into micro-history and get The Village of Cannibals and The Cheese and the Worms :)

The Cheese and the Worms is very good, esp. if you enjoy the miller's esoterism. I can also recommend The Return of Martin Guerre (along with the film also).
I had an exceptional 1st year student last year to whom I lent these two books - they wanted more along the lines of things we had spoken of.  I believe they found them worth the read, as this person switched to become a history major...I claim full credit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 10, 2009, 09:26:54 AM
Quote from: PDH on June 10, 2009, 09:20:04 AM

I had an exceptional 1st year student last year to whom I lent these two books - they wanted more along the lines of things we had spoken of.  I believe they found them worth the read, as this person switched to become a history major...I claim full credit.

That's good, because the quality of service at Starbucks has been shockingly low lately.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on June 10, 2009, 10:01:00 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2009, 09:26:54 AM
That's good, because the quality of service at Starbucks has been shockingly low lately.
:D No, that is me.

If this person wishes to continue, I suspect actually law school or pre-med, they could do whatever they want.  They are perhaps the smartest and most capable 1st year I have ever seen...and that says a lot - rather daunting in a way.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 10, 2009, 10:11:40 AM
Quote from: PDH on June 10, 2009, 10:01:00 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2009, 09:26:54 AM
That's good, because the quality of service at Starbucks has been shockingly low lately.
:D No, that is me.

If this person wishes to continue, I suspect actually law school or pre-med, they could do whatever they want.  They are perhaps the smartest and most capable 1st year I have ever seen...and that says a lot - rather daunting in a way.

Heh, kidding aside, maybe they could actually make it as a writer or academic. Some do ... it is just such a hard road these days.

I hate the notion that anyone with real smarts should become a doc or lawyer.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on June 10, 2009, 10:18:36 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2009, 10:11:40 AM
Heh, kidding aside, maybe they could actually make it as a writer or academic. Some do ... it is just such a hard road these days.

I hate the notion that anyone with real smarts should become a doc or lawyer.
They could, their only really non-like is the writing, and frankly they are damn good at that now - far better than I was at any point of my undergraduate, to be honest.

The daunting thing, as I said above, is that they could do anything - I really doubt any discipline is beyond them.  To see such a person is really remarkable, and makes me hope they really do go to great heights.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 10, 2009, 10:24:25 AM
Don't get your hopes up too high, PDH. Teachers were gushing over me similarly when it came to maths, composition or languages. Look where I'm now. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on June 10, 2009, 10:29:14 AM
Is this person a conjoined twin or is using «they» rather than she / he something common ?

But yea, having bright or enthusiastic students is always a joy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 10, 2009, 10:30:41 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 10, 2009, 10:29:14 AM
Is this person a conjoined twin or is using «they» rather than she / he something common ?

But yea, having bright or enthusiastic students is always a joy.

I'm assuming PDH doen't want us to know the gender of this wonderstudent, for fear of being teased.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on June 10, 2009, 10:32:53 AM
Ah. Gotcha. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on June 10, 2009, 11:22:48 AM
Quote from: Scipio on June 09, 2009, 05:06:24 PM
Matthew Pearl- The Last Dickens.  Pretty damn good.

ohhh I didn't know about this one, I liked his previous books a lot. thx.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on June 10, 2009, 11:23:44 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2009, 10:30:41 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 10, 2009, 10:29:14 AM
Is this person a conjoined twin or is using «they» rather than she / he something common ?

But yea, having bright or enthusiastic students is always a joy.

I'm assuming PDH doen't want us to know the gender of this wonderstudent, for fear of being teased.  :D
Bingo.  I assume teasing anyway, but yeah.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 10, 2009, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: PDH on June 10, 2009, 11:23:44 AM

Bingo.  I assume teasing anyway, but yeah.

I further assume that chances are good wonderstudent is female, as the Languish Teasing Potential (LTP) for praising a female wonderstudent is higher than that for praising a male wonderstudent.

Langush stock response(tm): "Tit pics plz"
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 10, 2009, 12:58:05 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 10, 2009, 10:29:14 AM
Is this person a conjoined twin or is using «they» rather than she / he something common ?
It's quite common in English English.  I believe it's less common in American English.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 10, 2009, 01:05:23 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 10, 2009, 12:58:05 PM
It's quite common in English English.  I believe it's less common in American English.

It's fairly common here, although for essay writing I was always expected to stick he or she. :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 10, 2009, 03:05:24 PM
Flipped through this at the library, it has some amazing photos.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wonderful-World-Albert-Kahn-Photographs/dp/1846074584
QuoteProduct Description
In 1909 the millionaire French banker and philanthropist Albert Kahn embarked on an ambitious project to create a colour photographic record of, and for, the peoples of the world. As an idealist and an internationalist, Kahn believed that he could use the new Autochrome process, the world's first user-friendly, true-colour photographic system, to promote cross-cultural peace and understanding. Until recently, Kahn's huge collection of 72,000 Autochromes remained relatively unheard of. Now, a century after he launched his project, this book and the BBC TV series it accompanies are bringing these dazzling pictures to a mass audience for the first time and putting colour into what we tend to think of as an entirely monochrome age.Kahn sent photographers to more than 50 countries, often at crucial junctures in their history, when age-old cultures were on the brink of being changed for ever by war and the march of twentieth-century globalisation. They documented in true colour the collapse of the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian empires, the last traditional Celtic villages in Ireland, and the soldiers of the First World War. They took the earliest known colour photographs in countries as far apart as Vietnam and Brazil, Mongolia and Norway, Benin and the United States. In 1929 the Wall Street Crash forced Kahn to bring his project to an end. He died in 1940, but left behind the most important collection of early colour photographs in the world.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on June 10, 2009, 03:12:27 PM
His house is a nice place to visit when in France (beautiful garden + his archives).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 10, 2009, 06:50:33 PM
Here's a nice speech by Dr. Michael Burlingame the author of Abraham Lincoln: A Life. It's a 2,000 page biography that recently came out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VExvJhMmv9Q&eurl
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 10, 2009, 06:51:21 PM
Quote2,000 page biography

TLDR
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on June 15, 2009, 04:13:35 PM
Reading short stories by Ronald Fairbank at the moment. So over-the-top, they are actually funny.

Also, could this thread be stickied please? It's a bitch to find, especially as the title is retarded (not "What you are reading?", to make it similar to other threads about movies or music).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: frunk on June 15, 2009, 04:51:05 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2009, 09:16:39 AM


They demonstrate he's obviously worked on this problem. The worst offenders in this respect was Cryptonomicon and The Diamond Age, both of which just sort of ended while the story was still going;

I've never seen it as a problem.  He tends to jump you into the middle of a story as much as possible, leaving in the middle is perfectly fine.  I thought the ending of Anathem was the weakest part, dragging on unecessarily.  The Baroque cycle was also seriously bloated, particularly the first book.  It could have been nicely trimmed and turned into a tighter series.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: katmai on June 15, 2009, 04:54:17 PM
Anybody picked up the first book in  new vampire trilogy co-written by Guillermo Del Toro?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on June 15, 2009, 05:01:28 PM
Quote from: katmai on June 15, 2009, 04:54:17 PM
Anybody picked up the first book in  new vampire trilogy co-written by Guillermo Del Toro?
Check your in box.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 16, 2009, 12:21:16 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 02, 2009, 02:27:44 AM
I just ordered:
Maps of War (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1847242065/ref=pd_luc_mri?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE)
Remarkable Maps: 100 Examples of How Cartography Defined, Changed and Stole the World (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1844860272/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE)
Cities of the World: A History in Maps (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0712348689/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE)
New Worlds: Maps from the Age of Discovery (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1905204809/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE)
To the Ends of the Earth: 100 Maps That Changed the World (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0715325396/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE)

Maps galore! :w00t:

Books arrived yesterday. The small ones are really nice. The "Maps of War" and "Maps from the Age of Discovery" in their 43.8 x 35.6 cm format are faptastic, containing ca. 100 large prints each; Maps of War covers historical battle/campaign/siege maps from 16th century to 19th century. :mmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Alatriste on June 16, 2009, 03:07:18 AM
I just bought A Dying Light in Corduba and Alexandria signed by the author, Lindsay Davis herself.

In the last times I have started to hate historical novels with a passion, too many pathetic wannabes with absolutely no qualification are writing them just because they are fashionable, and historical detective novels are even worse, but I make an exception with Lindsay Davis: she knows the field and her novels are very good; actually the detective part in some of them is merely en excuse, a MacGuffin if you like.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 16, 2009, 07:58:33 AM
I just bought The Fall of the West: Death of the Roman Superpower by Adrian Goldsworthy. Anyone read this? Views?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 16, 2009, 10:08:31 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 16, 2009, 07:58:33 AM
I just bought The Fall of the West: Death of the Roman Superpower by Adrian Goldsworthy. Anyone read this? Views?
No, but the title strikes me as anachronistic.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on June 16, 2009, 10:20:02 AM
Why do adult people buy maps to study? That sounds like the most boring thing ever.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 16, 2009, 10:21:52 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 16, 2009, 10:20:02 AM
Why do adult people buy maps to study? That sounds like the most boring thing ever.

Is something wrong, Marty? I've found you likable enough lately but today you seem to be drifting into whiny , I'm a cool gay, teen mode. Problems on the home front?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on June 16, 2009, 10:23:48 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 16, 2009, 10:21:52 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 16, 2009, 10:20:02 AM
Why do adult people buy maps to study? That sounds like the most boring thing ever.

Is something wrong, Marty? I've found you likable enough lately but today you seem to be drifting into whiny , I'm a cool gay, teen mode. Problems on the home front?
What, unhappy I am stealing your act? :P

Ok, I will be less whiny. I'm just feeling a bit blue, mostly because of the weather being shitty and overall boredom.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 16, 2009, 10:27:59 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 16, 2009, 10:23:48 AM
What, unhappy I am stealing your act? :P
Sorry, but I never bash on people for studying maps ('cepting Tim) and never go on about my fabulous apparel and parade of accessories. :mellow:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 16, 2009, 10:28:14 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 16, 2009, 10:23:48 AM

What, unhappy I am stealing your act? :P

Ok, I will be less whiny. I'm just feeling a bit blue, mostly because of the weather being shitty and overall boredom.

Know what helps with the blues? Studying maps.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 16, 2009, 12:45:25 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 16, 2009, 10:20:02 AM
Why do adult people buy maps to study? That sounds like the most boring thing ever.
I love maps :o

Antique maps are one of the few antique things I understand.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 16, 2009, 02:46:13 PM
I just read Ludes, a 1982 memoir written by Ben Stein of all people about his friend's descent into Quaalude addiction in the late 70's.   :huh:  Kind of an odd book, but he's an engaging writer and the story is quite emotional.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 16, 2009, 02:49:57 PM
Re-reading Two Ocean War, by Samuel Morison. A favorite of mine on the US Navy in WWII.

I keep meaning to pick up the 15 volume set, History of United States Naval Operations in World War II, but I'm lazy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: katmai on June 17, 2009, 06:02:16 PM
Quote from: Judas Iscariot on June 15, 2009, 05:01:28 PM
Quote from: katmai on June 15, 2009, 04:54:17 PM
Anybody picked up the first book in  new vampire trilogy co-written by Guillermo Del Toro?
Check your in box.

Thanks for the links Judas Arnold.

Also went and picked up a hard copy version as i just can't follow audio books.

Also picked up World War Z, finished it in about 5 hours.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 18, 2009, 04:27:18 AM
Books just ordered with a view to my summer reading list:
The Pursuit of Glory: Europe 1648-1815 - Tim Blanning
Iron Kingdom: The Rise and Downfall of Prussia, 1600-1947 - Christopher Clark
Empires of the Sea: The Final Battle for the Mediterranean, 1521-1580 - Roger Crowley
White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War, 1919-20 - Norman Davies

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on June 18, 2009, 11:18:42 AM
Reading Charlie Stross' near future SF: " Halting State". It's about uncovering a heist that takes place in a MMORPG that has RL repercussions. Just getting into it. He's got a nice style, this Stross. Looking fwd to goin back and seeing how his other books stack up. I hear "Saturn's Children" is great.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 18, 2009, 02:53:57 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on June 18, 2009, 11:18:42 AM
Reading Charlie Stross' near future SF: " Halting State". It's about uncovering a heist that takes place in a MMORPG that has RL repercussions. Just getting into it. He's got a nice style, this Stross. Looking fwd to goin back and seeing how his other books stack up. I hear "Saturn's Children" is great.

Didn't Larry Niven already do that with Dream Park?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on June 18, 2009, 10:27:26 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 18, 2009, 02:53:57 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on June 18, 2009, 11:18:42 AM
Reading Charlie Stross' near future SF: " Halting State". It's about uncovering a heist that takes place in a MMORPG that has RL repercussions. Just getting into it. He's got a nice style, this Stross. Looking fwd to goin back and seeing how his other books stack up. I hear "Saturn's Children" is great.

Didn't Larry Niven already do that with Dream Park?

Dunno? umm sure, maybe. :shrug: So far this guy is doing his story about that idea fairly well. I'm sure Niven was Ringworld-tastic, though with his story about that.

William Gibson also, in more than one book, Stephenson, etc....
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on June 18, 2009, 11:23:07 PM
Suppose it would be the Acme of foolishness to inquire if anyone could suggest a book about the rise of the Safavid from small Sufi order to Empire?  Ismai'l I?  The Qizilbashes?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 18, 2009, 11:44:50 PM
Do such books exist? I'm always on the lookout for good Safavid books but never can find any.  I once copied the cambridge history safavid section.  I broke down and bought this book, it is alright although it focuses on all of them.

http://www.amazon.com/Safavid-Iran-Rebirth-Persian-Library/dp/1845118308/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245386406&sr=8-1
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on June 19, 2009, 12:01:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 18, 2009, 11:44:50 PM
Do such books exist? I'm always on the lookout for good Safavid books but never can find any.  I once copied the cambridge history safavid section.  I broke down and bought this book, it is alright although it focuses on all of them.

http://www.amazon.com/Safavid-Iran-Rebirth-Persian-Library/dp/1845118308/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245386406&sr=8-1
Just bought it. 

I'm a little surprised.  I knew you had an interest in the period, but 'always on the lookout?'   Do we: share interests?   :o
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 14, 2009, 11:46:25 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 19, 2009, 12:01:33 AM
Just bought it. 

I'm a little surprised.  I knew you had an interest in the period, but 'always on the lookout?'   Do we: share interests?   :o

As a I never responded, yes I am often on the lookout. I think it is sad when generally the best sources I have are my photocopies of bits of the Cambridge History of Iran and assorted histories I can find online.

And apologies for sort of recommending that book. I revisited it lately and it isn't that great but when one is dealing with a paucity of sources. -_-
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on July 14, 2009, 11:55:44 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 18, 2009, 04:27:18 AM
White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War, 1919-20 - Norman Davies

Just finished this.  Interesting, well-balanced read, I thought.  It's a shame more information's not available (or hasn't been put into English).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: AnchorClanker on July 14, 2009, 12:24:30 PM
Christopher Clark is excellent.  He's just written a bio of Wilhelm II, which Amazon will de sending shortly.




Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 14, 2009, 12:56:27 PM
Just finished The Lost City of Z which was very interesting I thought - H. Rider Haggard! Madame Blavatsky! Lost civilzations! The latest in Amazonian archaeology! A famous disappearance! - but I'd have liked more information on the archaeology.

Is it the case that every single eccentric of the late 19th early 20th centuries was 'into' Theosophy and spiritualism? Sometimes it seems so.   :lol:

A definite must-read for anyone interested in the tragic tale of a real-life "Indiana Jones" character. Complete with maggot infestations.

http://www.amazon.ca/Lost-City-Deadly-Obsession-Amazon/dp/0385513534/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247594066&sr=8-1


Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 17, 2009, 02:57:20 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 18, 2009, 04:27:18 AM
Books just ordered with a view to my summer reading list:
[...]
Empires of the Sea: The Final Battle for the Mediterranean, 1521-1580 - Roger Crowley
[...]

Started with this. Starts with the conquest of Rhodes and goes to the Battle of Lepanto. Was the Sunday Times history book of 2008. Informatively and entertainingly written so far. Makes me want to play EU3.

I've also been informed by Amazon.co.uk (I hate them <_< ) that a new book about the Thirty Years War is coming out:
Europe's Tragedy: A New History of the Thirty Years War (Hardcover) by Peter H. Wilson (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Europes-Tragedy-History-Thirty-Years/dp/0713995920/ref=pd_ys_ir_b_4)

992 pages.
QuoteThe horrific series of conflicts known as the Thirty Years War (1618–48) tore the heart out of Europe, killing perhaps a quarter of all Germans and laying waste to whole areas of Central Europe to such a degree that many towns and regions never recovered. All the major European powers apart from Russia were heavily involved and, while each country started out with rational war aims, the fighting rapidly spiralled out of control, with great battles giving way to marauding bands of starving soldiers spreading plague and murder. The war was both a religious and a political one and it was this tangle of motives that made it impossible to stop. Whether motivated by idealism or cynicism, everyone drawn into the conflict was destroyed by it. At its end a recognizably modern Europe had been created but at a terrible price. Peter Wilson's book is a major work, the first new history of the war in a generation, and a fascinating, brilliantly written attempt to explain a compelling series of events. Wilson's great strength is in allowing the reader to understand the tragedy of mixed motives that allowed rulers to gamble their countries' future with such horrifying results. The principal actors in the drama (Wallenstein, Ferdinand II, Gustavus Adolphus, Richelieu) are all here, but so is the experience of the ordinary soldiers and civilians, desperately trying to stay alive under impossible circumstances.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 01:13:05 PM
Reading The Landmark Herodotus, edited by R.B. Strassler, which is pretty good - I have to conciously avoid having scenes from 300 pass through my head while reading it, though.  :D

Oddly enough, one over the top scene from that movie - tossing the Persian heralds down the well - actually occurred; the Spartans were (allegedly, according to H.) put under a divine curse for this.

The "joke" made by the Spartans was as follows: the Persian symbols of submission were the offer of earth and water. The Spartans toss the Persian heralds down the well, saying "get your earth and water from there".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 17, 2009, 01:24:42 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 01:13:05 PMOddly enough, one over the top scene from that movie - tossing the Persian heralds down the well - actually occurred; the Spartans were (allegedly, according to H.) put under a divine curse for this.

Herodotus also tells the story (IIRC) about "fighting in the shade" and the Persians attacking via hidden paths.

Not all about the movie is wrong. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 17, 2009, 01:30:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 17, 2009, 01:24:42 PM

Herodotus also tells the story (IIRC) about "fighting in the shade" and the Persians attacking via hidden paths.

Not all about the movie is wrong. :)

Only so far as Herodotus is right.   ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 01:35:17 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 17, 2009, 01:24:42 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 01:13:05 PMOddly enough, one over the top scene from that movie - tossing the Persian heralds down the well - actually occurred; the Spartans were (allegedly, according to H.) put under a divine curse for this.

Herodotus also tells the story (IIRC) about "fighting in the shade" and the Persians attacking via hidden paths.

Not all about the movie is wrong. :)

Do they have that bit in the movie where the Persians react with scorn to the sight of the Spartans getting their hair done?  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 01:37:56 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 17, 2009, 01:30:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 17, 2009, 01:24:42 PM

Herodotus also tells the story (IIRC) about "fighting in the shade" and the Persians attacking via hidden paths.

Not all about the movie is wrong. :)

Only so far as Herodotus is right.   ;)

Herodotus' book sometimes sounds much like what one would get if one attempted to write a history of WW2 today by asking some random guys in a bar what happened.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grallon on July 17, 2009, 01:40:16 PM
Recently read the omnibus edition of "The Braided Path", by Chris Wooding.  You can find a review here: http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/w/chris-wooding/braided-path.htm.

Interesting oriental setting which we don't often see in fantasy.  Although it takes a while to get past the jarring mismach of latin and japanese sounding names eventually (midway through the first book) it becomes really engaging.  The author does overindulge in gruesome descriptions... to the delight of some no doubt.  :P



G.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 17, 2009, 01:44:34 PM
His gold digging ants story could have a kernel of truth, though, as I read just recently:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus#Gold-digging_ants

QuoteOne of the most recent developments in Herodotus scholarship was made by the French ethnologist Michel Peissel. On his journeys to India and Pakistan, Peissel claims to have discovered an animal species that may finally illuminate one of the most "bizarre" passages in Herodotus's Histories. In Book 3, passages 102 to 105, Herodotus reports that a species of fox-sized, furry "ants" lives in one of the far eastern, Indian provinces of the Persian Empire. This region, he reports, is a sandy desert, and the sand there contains a wealth of fine gold dust. These giant ants, according to Herodotus, would often unearth the gold dust when digging their mounds and tunnels, and the people living in this province would then collect the precious dust. Now, Peissel says that in an isolated region of Pakistan, in the Pakistani-controlled part of Kashmir that is known as the Federally Administered Northern Areas (FANA), on the Deosai Plateau there exists a species of marmot (a type of burrowing squirrel) that may solve the mystery of Herodotus' giant "ants". Much like the province that Herodotus describes, the ground of the Deosai Plateau is rich in gold dust. According to Peissel, he interviewed the Minaro tribal people who live in the Deosai Plateau, and they have confirmed that they have, for generations, been collecting the gold dust that the marmots bring to the surface when they are digging their underground burrows. The story seems to have been widespread in the ancient world, later authors like Pliny the Elder mentioning it in his gold mining section of the Naturalis Historia.

Even more tantalizing, in his book, "The Ants' Gold: The Discovery of the Greek El Dorado in the Himalayas", Peissel offers the theory that Herodotus may have become confused because the old Persian word for "marmot" was quite similar to that for "mountain ant". Because research suggests that Herodotus probably did not know any Persian (or any other language except his native Greek), he was forced to rely on a multitude of local translators when travelling in the vast polylingual Persian Empire. Therefore, he may have been the unwitting victim of a simple misunderstanding in translation. (It is also important to realize that Herodotus never claims to have himself seen these "ants/marmot" creatures—he may have been dutifully reporting what other travellers were telling him, no matter how bizarre or unlikely he personally may have found it to be. In an age when most of the world was still mysterious and unknown and before the modern science of biology, the existence of a "giant ant" may not have seemed so far-fetched.) The suggestion that he completely made up the tale may continue to be thrown into doubt as more research is conducted.[11][12]

However, it must be noted that this theory of the marmots fails to take into consideration Herodotus's own follow-up in passage 105 of Book 3, wherein the "ants/marmots" are said to chase and devour full-grown camels; nevertheless, this could also be explained as an example of a tall tale or legend told by the local tribes to frighten foreigners from seeking this relatively easy access to gold dust. On the other hand, the details of the "ants" seem somewhat similar to the description of the camel spider (Solifugae), which strictly speaking is not a spider and is even sometimes called a "wind scorpion". Camel spiders are said to chase camels (they can run up to 10mph), they have lots of hair bristles, and they could quite easily be mistaken for ants given their rather bizarre appearance. And as has been noted by some, on account of the fear factor of encountering one, there have been "many myths and exaggerations about their size".[13] Images of camel spiders[14][15] could give the impression that this could be mistaken for a giant ant, but certainly not the size of a fox.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 17, 2009, 01:50:51 PM
Camel spiders look rather hideous. :x
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 01:53:44 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 17, 2009, 01:44:34 PM
His gold digging ants story could have a kernel of truth, though, as I read just recently:


Yeah, I've read similar stuff for years (the version I heard was that actual ant mounds could be used in prospecting for surface gold).

There is no doubt that good old Herodotus was told many whoppers by his informants (i.e., "guys he met in a bar somewhere"). What is interesting is that some appear to have at least a kernel of truth - like the Phonecian circumnavagation of Africa.

He was surprisingly well informed about the strangest topics - for example, he got Sythian burial customs spot-on: that's been confirmed by archaeology (OTOH, he had no idea what smoking hemp was for - he thought hot-boxing a tent was a sort of steam-bath).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 17, 2009, 03:34:33 PM
Finished The Kite Runner.  I think I prefer the movie to the book.  Protagonist sure does a lot of weeping in the book.

Now I'm deep into War and Peace.  At first it was a little hard to keep Boris and Nikolay seperate, but I think I've got it now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 03:37:03 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 17, 2009, 01:50:51 PM
Camel spiders look rather hideous. :x

They taste better than they look.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 17, 2009, 03:40:10 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 03:37:03 PM
They taste better than they look.

Unlike some people, I'm rather discerning when it comes to things I'll put in my mouth.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 04:26:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 17, 2009, 03:40:10 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 03:37:03 PM
They taste better than they look.

Unlike some people, I'm rather discerning when it comes to things I'll put in my mouth.

The less we discuss what you put in your mouth, the better.  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 17, 2009, 04:29:23 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 04:26:44 PM
The less we discuss what you put in your mouth, the better.  :P

:P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on July 23, 2009, 11:08:42 PM
Just got for birthday:
The Great Arab Conquests by Hugh Kennedy.  120 pages into it.  Glad modern Jihadists aren't anything like the first Muslims.  They were crazy, terrifying, brilliant motherfuckers. 
A Shameful Act: The Armenian Genocide and the Question of Turkish Responsibility by Taner Akçam.  Looks interesting.
A Farewell to Alms: A Short Economic History of the World by Gregory Clark.  After seeing an interesting graph from it and reading a reccomendation of it on Crook's blog over at the Atlanitic.  Basically, rich Englishman liked to fuck and make babies, thus the Industrial Revolution happened. 

And, on Joan's reccomendation, THe Fall of the Roman Empire: A new History of Rome and the Barbarians by Peter Heather.  Absolutely massive book, huge font, wondering if I accidentally ordered the senior citizen edition.

Also got Season 1 of Breaking Bad, Season 2 of Mad Men and Walking with Monsters on DVD.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on July 23, 2009, 11:17:55 PM
Just finished Tuesdays with Morrie. Good book. Would probably be more thought-provoking if I was a yuppie.

Started The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell because a coworker had it lying around. Have no idea what to expect.

Also reading The Two Koreas: A Contemporary History by Don Oberdorfer. Great book on modern (post 1953) Korean history. Very in-depth, but easy to read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on July 23, 2009, 11:21:31 PM
I don't have any new books so I'm rereading Keegan's WWI book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on July 23, 2009, 11:26:22 PM
That's a good one.
Except last time I reread it, I bought Matrixgames' Guns of August.  :hide:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on July 23, 2009, 11:49:19 PM
Spellus, are there any decent, readable books on Ottoman history (1500s+, please, not ancient history) that you can recommend to me?

Anyone else should feel free to chime in, however.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 24, 2009, 12:20:45 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 23, 2009, 11:49:19 PM
Spellus, are there any decent, readable books on Ottoman history (1500s+, please, not ancient history) that you can recommend to me?

Anyone else should feel free to chime in, however.

I refer you to my post above:
Empires of the Sea: The Final Battle for the Mediterranean, 1521-1580 - Roger Crowley

It's entertaining, nicely written and made History Book of the Year 2008 in Sunday Times. It's not strictly only Ottomans, though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on July 24, 2009, 01:00:14 AM
going to dive into a book on The Aum Cult (The Cult At The End Of The World) that a customer lent me after raving to me about it the other day. I get a lot of book/movie recommendations this way.

I'm also slowly re-reading John Gardner's great "Art Of Fiction". Next up in the world of fiction reading is  is "Dune"... my second attempt, tried to read it back in tha day got bored never went back. 'Til now. I hear good things.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 24, 2009, 01:58:58 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 23, 2009, 11:49:19 PM
Spellus, are there any decent, readable books on Ottoman history (1500s+, please, not ancient history) that you can recommend to me?

Anyone else should feel free to chime in, however.
Kinross: The Ottomans.

edit: I think now it's called The Ottoman Centuries.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on July 24, 2009, 06:53:22 AM
The Ottoman Centuries is good, although the first quarter of the book is pre-1500s.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on July 24, 2009, 08:13:36 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 24, 2009, 12:20:45 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 23, 2009, 11:49:19 PM
Spellus, are there any decent, readable books on Ottoman history (1500s+, please, not ancient history) that you can recommend to me?

Anyone else should feel free to chime in, however.

I refer you to my post above:
Empires of the Sea: The Final Battle for the Mediterranean, 1521-1580 - Roger Crowley

It's entertaining, nicely written and made History Book of the Year 2008 in Sunday Times. It's not strictly only Ottomans, though.

Reading that right now, actually.  ;)

Also, Blood Meridian, though only a few chapters in.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 24, 2009, 08:40:06 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 24, 2009, 08:13:36 AM


Also, Blood Meridian, though only a few chapters in.

That's one gruesome read, all right.  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on July 24, 2009, 08:43:19 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 24, 2009, 08:40:06 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 24, 2009, 08:13:36 AM


Also, Blood Meridian, though only a few chapters in.

That's one gruesome read, all right.  :lol:

Don't spoil things!  :mad: :P
I read The Road last year, so I'm expecting as much.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PRC on July 24, 2009, 08:47:58 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 01:13:05 PM
Reading The Landmark Herodotus, edited by R.B. Strassler, which is pretty good - I have to conciously avoid having scenes from 300 pass through my head while reading it, though.  :D

Oddly enough, one over the top scene from that movie - tossing the Persian heralds down the well - actually occurred; the Spartans were (allegedly, according to H.) put under a divine curse for this.

The "joke" made by the Spartans was as follows: the Persian symbols of submission were the offer of earth and water. The Spartans toss the Persian heralds down the well, saying "get your earth and water from there".

I've got it as well, very good.  I'll probably pickup his Landmark Thucydides at some point soon.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 24, 2009, 08:52:34 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 24, 2009, 08:43:19 AM
Don't spoil things!  :mad: :P

I feel the shame of that spoiler fully as much as deserved.   ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 24, 2009, 08:53:21 AM
Quote from: PRC on July 24, 2009, 08:47:58 AM
I've got it as well, very good.  I'll probably pickup his Landmark Thucydides at some point soon.

Me too - and I'm not as familiar with Thucydides.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on July 24, 2009, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 23, 2009, 11:49:19 PM
Spellus, are there any decent, readable books on Ottoman history (1500s+, please, not ancient history) that you can recommend to me?

Anyone else should feel free to chime in, however.
Osman's Dream is recent and supposedly excellent. 
QuoteDon't spoil things!
The only way one could spoil Blood Meridian is if one took a lot of meth and watched The Proposition.  It is a truly amazing, fucked up book.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on July 24, 2009, 02:18:45 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on July 24, 2009, 01:31:33 PM
Osman's Dream is recent and supposedly excellent. 
Reading that at the minute.  So far it's impressive.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 24, 2009, 02:21:33 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on July 24, 2009, 01:31:33 PM

The only way one could spoil Blood Meridian is if one took a lot of meth and watched The Proposition.  It is a truly amazing, fucked up book.

Not, however, one to recommend to someone on a first date.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on July 24, 2009, 03:25:24 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 24, 2009, 02:18:45 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on July 24, 2009, 01:31:33 PM
Osman's Dream is recent and supposedly excellent. 
Reading that at the minute.  So far it's impressive.
How far are you into it?  I'd be interested to know how well it covers the initial (far more interesting, at least more so than anything till the end) period. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on July 24, 2009, 03:26:50 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 24, 2009, 02:21:33 PM


Not, however, one to recommend to someone on a first date.  :D
I try to avoid talking about anything I am really interested in on dates.  Don't want to reveal how batshit I am until they can sense it. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 24, 2009, 03:27:38 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on July 24, 2009, 03:26:50 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 24, 2009, 02:21:33 PM


Not, however, one to recommend to someone on a first date.  :D
I try to avoid talking about anything I am really interested in on dates.  Don't want to reveal how batshit I am until they can sense it.

I think they notice when you ask them to dress like Theodora.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 24, 2009, 03:29:12 PM
And I've read nothing. Been trying to start Danny Parker's Bulge book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on July 24, 2009, 07:19:08 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on July 24, 2009, 03:25:24 PM
How far are you into it?  I'd be interested to know how well it covers the initial (far more interesting, at least more so than anything till the end) period.
The initial isn't the focus, only three or four chapters until they've taken Constantinople (which makes sense given that she's covering from 1300-1927).  Her main concern is that she thinks Ottoman history has been ill-served by the interest in it because most general, popular histories deal primarily in broad-brush stereotypes of eunuchs, Pashas and harem girls.  She also wants to discuss the degree of continuity, as well as change, with Ataturk's Turkey.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on July 24, 2009, 08:42:56 PM
Quote from: Armyknife on July 24, 2009, 10:18:17 AM
Reading the dictionary I bought yesterday.

[spoiler] the Zygote did it![/spoiler]
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 27, 2009, 11:13:50 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 01:37:56 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 17, 2009, 01:30:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 17, 2009, 01:24:42 PM

Herodotus also tells the story (IIRC) about "fighting in the shade" and the Persians attacking via hidden paths.

Not all about the movie is wrong. :)

Only so far as Herodotus is right.   ;)

Herodotus' book sometimes sounds much like what one would get if one attempted to write a history of WW2 today by asking some random guys in a bar what happened.  ;)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpbfcomics.com%2Farchive_b%2FPBF209-Now_Showing.jpg&hash=102301bbcb2328454bcc0c47af4273d0fb40a158)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on July 27, 2009, 11:31:22 AM
Just finished reading The Last Thousand Days of the British Empire.

Enjoyable read.  He picks up the story in early 44, and spends a lot of time on the big conferences of Quebec, Teheran, and Yalta.  Some good stuff in there, but also fairly familiar.

The events post VE Day however (which cover half of the 1000 day timeframe) are rushed, which was a real shame.  That's the era that frankly I knew the least about, but it seems to get skimmed over very rapidly in the last third of the book.  Perhaps Atlee just wasn't as interesting a subject as Churchill.   :bowler:

Still, I'd recommend it.  The author is  Brit living in Canada, so he also makes nice mentions of Canada's war effort, and gives several contemporary quotes about how Canada was the only Dominion doing everything that could be expected. :canuck:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 27, 2009, 11:39:24 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 27, 2009, 11:13:50 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 01:37:56 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 17, 2009, 01:30:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 17, 2009, 01:24:42 PM

Herodotus also tells the story (IIRC) about "fighting in the shade" and the Persians attacking via hidden paths.

Not all about the movie is wrong. :)

Only so far as Herodotus is right.   ;)

Herodotus' book sometimes sounds much like what one would get if one attempted to write a history of WW2 today by asking some random guys in a bar what happened.  ;)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpbfcomics.com%2Farchive_b%2FPBF209-Now_Showing.jpg&hash=102301bbcb2328454bcc0c47af4273d0fb40a158)

Heh, Perry Bible Fellowship. Too sad that he stopped writing - one of the best webcomics around.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 27, 2009, 11:47:31 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on July 24, 2009, 03:25:24 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 24, 2009, 02:18:45 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on July 24, 2009, 01:31:33 PM
Osman's Dream is recent and supposedly excellent. 
Reading that at the minute.  So far it's impressive.
How far are you into it?  I'd be interested to know how well it covers the initial (far more interesting, at least more so than anything till the end) period. 

I don't think it is a very good book...or rather it is like that Safavid book we discussed, where it only seems alright as there is generally a dearth of easily available material.  Of course, I'm not a fan of books that aim for such a large scope and this book certainly suffers from that.  As Sheilbh said, the focus isn't really on the initial period and I've seen better detail from webpages online.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 27, 2009, 02:38:41 PM
I got an e-mail from Amazon telling me that I should pre-order a book on Mary, Queen of Scots. :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on July 27, 2009, 02:40:52 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 27, 2009, 11:39:24 AM


Heh, Perry Bible Fellowship. Too sad that he stopped writing - one of the best webcomics around.
When/why did he stop?  I just read all of them about a month ago, figured he was on vacation or something.  Great comic. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on July 27, 2009, 02:43:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 27, 2009, 11:47:31 AM

I don't think it is a very good book...or rather it is like that Safavid book we discussed, where it only seems alright as there is generally a dearth of easily available material.  Of course, I'm not a fan of books that aim for such a large scope and this book certainly suffers from that.  As Sheilbh said, the focus isn't really on the initial period and I've seen better detail from webpages online.
That Safavid book was really dissapointing.  I have no idea why there aren't more books on the Safavids or Ottomans, you'd think with the whole huge fucking crisis in the Mid-East there would be a lot more. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 27, 2009, 02:43:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 27, 2009, 11:31:22 AM
Just finished reading The Last Thousand Days of the British Empire.

Enjoyable read.  He picks up the story in early 44, and spends a lot of time on the big conferences of Quebec, Teheran, and Yalta.  Some good stuff in there, but also fairly familiar.

The events post VE Day however (which cover half of the 1000 day timeframe) are rushed, which was a real shame.  That's the era that frankly I knew the least about, but it seems to get skimmed over very rapidly in the last third of the book.  Perhaps Atlee just wasn't as interesting a subject as Churchill.   :bowler:

Still, I'd recommend it.  The author is  Brit living in Canada, so he also makes nice mentions of Canada's war effort, and gives several contemporary quotes about how Canada was the only Dominion doing everything that could be expected. :canuck:

I've always found anything on the end of the Empire to be depressing as hell.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on July 27, 2009, 03:24:05 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 27, 2009, 02:43:58 PM
I've always found anything on the end of the Empire to be depressing as hell.

Well, yeah, it is.  :(

But it was still interesting to see how something like partition went down.  The author heaps a lot of criticism on Ghandi - not knowing much of that era, I wouldn't have expected that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 28, 2009, 12:48:48 AM
Started Warren Ellis' Crooked Little Vein.

Hillarious. It's like Neil/CdM/Monkebutt collaborating (and actually, the scene of the Large Lizard fetishists masturbating to scenes of Godzilla movies set to love msuic/porn groans makes me think Mr Ellis lurks here).

The language/weirdness of characters is pretty familiar if you've read Transmetropolitan.

Enjoying it so far (30 pages in) and had a couple LOL moments.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Alatriste on July 29, 2009, 01:12:42 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 27, 2009, 11:31:22 AM
The author is  Brit living in Canada, so he also makes nice mentions of Canada's war effort, and gives several contemporary quotes about how Canada was the only Dominion doing everything that could be expected. :canuck:

I would say that's quite unfair with New Zealand, fair with Australia and more than fair regarding South Africa.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 29, 2009, 04:12:14 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on July 29, 2009, 01:12:42 AM
I would say that's quite unfair with New Zealand, fair with Australia and more than fair regarding South Africa.
What's the knock on Australia?

Re Canada's contribution: Keegan wrote in Six Armies at Normandy that French Canadians dodged the WWI draft in large numbers, which would seem to undercut Beeb's claim.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on July 29, 2009, 11:45:17 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 29, 2009, 04:12:14 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on July 29, 2009, 01:12:42 AM
I would say that's quite unfair with New Zealand, fair with Australia and more than fair regarding South Africa.
What's the knock on Australia?

Re Canada's contribution: Keegan wrote in Six Armies at Normandy that French Canadians dodged the WWI draft in large numbers, which would seem to undercut Beeb's claim.

How so? they're French... isn't that normal? :P

seriously though... iirc most Canuck soldiers were Vollies.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on July 29, 2009, 12:50:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 29, 2009, 04:12:14 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on July 29, 2009, 01:12:42 AM
I would say that's quite unfair with New Zealand, fair with Australia and more than fair regarding South Africa.
What's the knock on Australia?

Re Canada's contribution: Keegan wrote in Six Armies at Normandy that French Canadians dodged the WWI draft in large numbers, which would seem to undercut Beeb's claim.

Did you mean to say WWI?

The draft (or conscription) was hugely controversial in Canada exactly because of Quebec and French Canadians.  It was for that reason that the government brought in conscription, but would not send conscripts overseas to fight.  That eventually changed in late 44 or 45, but in the end very very few soldiers were ever forced to go overseas.

Not sure how anti-war sentiment in Quebec translates into the Canadian government not doing all it could do though.   :huh:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: lustindarkness on July 29, 2009, 12:58:54 PM
I would like to read Xenophon's Anabasis, are all translations just about the same or is there one I really should be looking for?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 29, 2009, 12:59:00 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 28, 2009, 12:48:48 AM
Started Warren Ellis' Crooked Little Vein.

Hillarious. It's like Neil/CdM/Monkebutt collaborating (and actually, the scene of the Large Lizard fetishists masturbating to scenes of Godzilla movies set to love msuic/porn groans makes me think Mr Ellis lurks here).

Ogle? :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 29, 2009, 01:31:52 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 29, 2009, 12:50:44 PM
Did you mean to say WWI?
My bad, I misread your original post.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: saskganesh on July 29, 2009, 03:07:05 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on July 29, 2009, 01:12:42 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 27, 2009, 11:31:22 AM
The author is  Brit living in Canada, so he also makes nice mentions of Canada's war effort, and gives several contemporary quotes about how Canada was the only Dominion doing everything that could be expected. :canuck:

I would say that's quite unfair with New Zealand, fair with Australia and more than fair regarding South Africa.

what about India? 2.5 million troops don't matter? they were not a Dominion, but they were very damn important.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on July 29, 2009, 03:35:40 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 27, 2009, 03:24:05 PM
But it was still interesting to see how something like partition went down.  The author heaps a lot of criticism on Ghandi - not knowing much of that era, I wouldn't have expected that.
This book's quite good on the period:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Never-Again-1945-1951-Peter-Hennessy/dp/0141016027
It's also entirely focused on the Labour government, so it would seem to fill that gap.  Of course the end of Empire's only a bit of it as it's a history of the period so there's as much on the creation of the NHS, developing a British nuke and so on.

I think that recently Gandhi's being looked at more critically and that Nehru's attracting (at last!) more respect and admiration. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 29, 2009, 05:31:26 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 28, 2009, 12:48:48 AM
Started Warren Ellis' Crooked Little Vein.

Hillarious. It's like Neil/CdM/Monkebutt collaborating (and actually, the scene of the Large Lizard fetishists masturbating to scenes of Godzilla movies set to love msuic/porn groans makes me think Mr Ellis lurks here).

The language/weirdness of characters is pretty familiar if you've read Transmetropolitan.

Enjoying it so far (30 pages in) and had a couple LOL moments.

Finished it. The book is bright, over the top and would probably work well as graphic novel. The main character makes his own descent into the American sexual underworld, led by two competing Virgils; one representing puritanic values, the other sexual liberation. The hunt for the maguffin takes them from New York to Columbus/OH, San Antonio/TX, Las Vegas/NV, to finish in LA while encountering ever weirder characters and fetishes. Durng the flights the main character meets strange folks on the plane, including a 71 year old serial killer and a fellow private eye called "Falconer", and arrogant prick en route to LA to find "an avian statue from Malta". A lot of the story is heavily constructed, and Ellis injects it all with a (not too moralizing) commentary on modern communications society and a lot of humour. What struck me as worrying, though, was that none of the fetishes mentioned in the book really shocked me or offended me too much, which included:



[spoilers]




- body modification through saline solution injections
- sexual gratification with dead animals
- eel sex
- injecting heroin and jacking off to the fashion channel while shitting oneself
- a mother killing her son's girlfriend by shoving the preserved placenta from being pregnant with him down her throat, then stealing his semen to inject it into her veins as means of age retardation
- weirdos jacking off to Godzilla
- Russian Roulette parties where the rich and powerful rape third world kids and bet on which kid catches HIV from them
- a blind guy rapoing his seeing eye dog (I think we had a thread about that once)
- baby jesus buttplug
and probably a couple more that I'm forgetting.

Most stories and encounters according to Ellis are real world stories slightly adapted, and I guess I have read about almost all of them before.

Still an entertaining book if probably more interesting to people who haven't seen too much of the dark side of the internet (Timmay, Wags) and who are still shocked by rotten.com news stories.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 29, 2009, 05:34:16 PM
Sounds like a terrible and senseless book. :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 29, 2009, 05:38:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2009, 05:34:16 PM
Sounds like a terrible and senseless book. :unsure:

As said, would probably work better as a graphic novel, but it also works as a rather mindless page turner (what comes next?) that mixes detective story with fetishes.

Doesn't hold a candle to his graphic works, like Transmet or Crecy, of course.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on July 29, 2009, 05:42:38 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2009, 05:34:16 PM
Sounds like a terrible and senseless book. :unsure:

That aptly describes most of Ellis' writing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 29, 2009, 05:43:38 PM
 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on July 29, 2009, 05:47:42 PM
 :yawn:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 30, 2009, 04:11:31 AM
As a pleasant surprise Wilson's "Europe's Tragedy: A History of the Thirty Years' War" was delivered today, even though I ordered from UK and the book's official release date on Amazon was also today.

Here's a positive review of the Sunday Times:
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/non-fiction/article6716310.ece

QuoteThe lead-lined window that sparked it all is still there, of course: you can even open it, and peer down to the dry moat into which the three Catholic imperial counsellors were cast on May 23, 1618 by a group of enraged Bohemian Protestant gentry. The room itself is on the fourth floor of the great Hradschin Palace, which looks over the river to the city of Prague. All is peaceful now, but it wasn't then; it was the epicentre of a storm that was to engulf much of Europe for the following three decades.

The famous tossing-out-of-the-window (the Defenestration of Prague) sparked off the tinderbox of animosities that had been building up between the Catholic Hapsburg authorities and the Protestant gentry since Luther had pinned his theses on the church door at Wittenberg back in 1517. ­Confessional hatreds, usually exacerbated by dynastic rivalries, class antagonisms and ­linguistic differences, had already torn France in two in the late-16th century, driven the Dutch revolt and Spanish counter-assault, and were soon to engulf the British Isles in their own civil war. But nothing compared with the scale and bloodiness that raged across Germany and surrounding lands from 1618 until the peace of Westphalia in 1648, and are the subjects of this gargantuan book. There are four epic, ­hegemonic, system-altering wars in the long sweep of modern European history — in reverse order, the second world war, the first world war, the Napoleonic war and, before all of them, the thirty years' war. In terms of proportionate bloodletting, the earliest may have been the worst of them all.

A little chronology will be helpful here. Like the later three conflicts, the thirty years' war started in a specific locale, and then spread and spread as more and more powers entered the fray. Originally, this was a ­conflict between the Holy Roman Emperor, the intensely Catholic Ferdinand II, and the independent-minded Protestant nobles in his Bohemian kingdom. But it was impossible for this not to spill over into the crowded German lands, where Catholic and Protestant rulers were arming themselves out of fear of what the other side might do. Bavaria (Catholic), Saxony (Protestant), the Palatinate (contested) all tumbled into war. Mercenaries from the poorer lands of Europe — ­Scotland, Ireland, Croatia — swarmed in for the killing and plunder. Protestant Denmark joined the fray in 1625. In July 1630 the greatest of Sweden's kings, Gustavus Adolphus, landed in Pomerania and swept south. By the mid-1630s, Spain, already drained by 60 years of the Dutch war, committed itself hugely into the German mire; unsurprisingly, the French statesman Richelieu felt he had at last to commit his own troops.

And so the war went on. Certain parts of the Rhineland and central Germany were torn apart by rampaging armies again and again, cities razed, churches burnt, animals slaughtered, crops destroyed and populations driven out in wintertime to starve in the woods — or be carried away by plague. "I would not believe a land could have been so despoiled had I not seen it with my own eyes," reported the Swedish general Mortaigne when he passed through northern Germany late in the war. Marburg, which had been occupied 11 times, had lost half its population by 1648. When the enraged and hungry imperial troops finally sacked the hold-out Protestant city of Magdeburg in 1631, it is estimated that only 5,000 of its 30,000 inhabitants survived the slaughter. Mothers and infants were impaled and defiled. What was done to the men is not describable. The destruction of the city by out-of-control mercenaries was a holocaust, never perhaps to be repeated in such ferocity until the Nazi-SS extermination squads went into the cities of the Ukraine in 1941-42. You do not understand Thomas Hobbes's ­contemporary plea for an absolute sovereign, a Leviathan, unless you first understand how terrified all observers were by this bloodstained anarchy.


The total population of the German empire dropped from 21m to just over 13m. Try to add to that the losses among the Swedes, French, Dutch, Scots, Croats, Italians and Spanish, and what might the total losses be? Say, 20m Europeans. Given the significantly smaller population of Europe then, it seems safe to say that, proportionate to population, the tangled, awful 1618-48 slaughters took away a higher percentage than the second world war's frightening 50m-60m dead. A recent poll in Germany on that country's many catastrophes gave the thirty years' war the "number one" vote, above 1914-18 and 1939-45. That itself makes one pause for thought.

This dreadful conflict attracted its historians virtually as soon as the combatants marched home, and some of the greatest European scholars have tried their hand at describing its dramatic unfolding and ­analysing its meanings. This is not easy: the true historian of the conflict should have command of German, French, Dutch, ­Swedish, English, Spanish, Italian and, if possible, Czech, Polish and Danish. That scholar should also be well versed in ­theology, diplomacy, military science and architecture, topology and climate history, and have a deep knowledge of the vast ­historiography about modern international relations, if only because the very emergence of the so-called Westphalian states-system after the 1648 settlement has led to many works on the nature of power-politics, statecraft, finance and military effectiveness.

So Peter Wilson, professor of history at the University of Hull, is a brave man to undertake a new general survey of one of the most long-lasting, multi-dimensional and controversial wars of all time. It is a joy to report that, at least in this reviewer's opinion, Europe's Tragedy succeeds brilliantly. It is huge both in its scene-setting and its unfolding narrative detail — you actually have to wait until page 272 before the counsellors are tossed out of the window — but the writing is not dense; it happily escapes from the turgid prose of so many of the German-language works that Wilson necessarily had to read and condense. From time to time I subjected his text to

the ultimate comparative test, by laying his battle-scene descriptions of, say, Breitenfeld, ­Nördlingen and Rocroi alongside the accounts of the same actions in CV Wedgwood's utterly sublime work, The Thirty Years' War (1938), which that precocious young woman composed as the clouds of another devastating war hung over Europe. Nobody in our ­modern age can write as wonderfully as she did, but Wilson's battle narratives are just fine. So are his accounts of high politics and diplomacy.

Who, then, after 1648 was a "great power"? Actually, a whole number of them. The chief feature of this lengthy conflict, from the ­perspective of the political scientist, was that the Hapsburg bid for mastery had been blunted; the possibility of a Hapsburg-­Catholic unipolar Europe had collapsed into multipolarity. Both Spain and Austria remained in the club of leading nations, even after defeat. (Austria was stubborn enough to survive the war of the Austrian succession, plus five Napoleonic assaults, and then drag everyone into the first world war.) Sweden remained the "Lion of the North", even after Gustavus's death at Lützen in 1632, until Peter the Great's Russia ended that pretension at the century's end. The France of Louis XIV was clearly to be the new top dog, but it faced a strong and tough United Provinces. Meanwhile, the outlier powers, Great Britain and Russia, were each gathering enormous strength. The stage was being set for another 300 years of European-driven conflict among the top five or six dogs until April 1945, when American and Soviet troops met, appropriately for our review, on the Elbe, only miles from some of the bloodiest battles of the thirty years' war, and demonstrated that the Eurocentric order was over.

It is to Wilson's credit that he can both offer the reader a detailed account of this ­terrible and complicated war and step back to give due summaries. His scholarship seems to me remarkable, his prose light and lovely, his judgments fair. This is a heavyweight book, no doubt. Sometimes, though, the very best of them have to be.

Many years ago, I took my two young sons repeatedly through the town gate of the ­village of Grunern, in the southern Black Forest, where we were living at the time. On the limestone gate were (in German) the words: "Destroyed by the Swedes, 1632. Rebuilt, 1648." It was hard at that time to explain to them what that all meant, and that around 30,000 small towns and villages across Europe were destroyed in that distant conflict. Decades later, I can now send them both a copy of Europe's Tragedy, and invite them to read it.

Look forward to reading it, and at 22.40 GBP I consider this a real bargain.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 30, 2009, 07:48:59 AM
Danny Parker's Battle of the bulge. -Readable
The Dread Empire. Always re-readable. A giant floating fetus rooting out treachery? Winnar.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on July 30, 2009, 11:42:20 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 29, 2009, 05:42:38 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2009, 05:34:16 PM
Sounds like a terrible and senseless book. :unsure:

That aptly describes most of Ellis' writing.

I'd say some, not most. I see Ellis as a 50/50 bet you will get either awesome  or the same old Authority ish stuff recycled with more ultraviolence and kink.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 30, 2009, 01:46:12 PM
I've been reading the Herbert Foster translation of Cassius Dio's "Rome."  I just got to the death of Caligula and got a chuckle out of the proceeding passage:

QuoteSo Gaius, who accomplished all these exploits in three years, nine
months, and twenty-eight days, learned by actual experience that he was
not a god.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on July 30, 2009, 01:50:39 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 30, 2009, 11:42:20 AM
I'd say some, not most. I see Ellis as a 50/50 bet you will get either awesome  or the same old Authority ish stuff recycled with more ultraviolence and kink.

50/50 sounds about right.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: lustindarkness on July 30, 2009, 08:06:53 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on July 29, 2009, 12:58:54 PM
I would like to read Xenophon's Anabasis, are all translations just about the same or is there one I really should be looking for?
No military history nerds here?  :yeahright:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on July 30, 2009, 08:30:27 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on July 30, 2009, 08:06:53 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on July 29, 2009, 12:58:54 PM
I would like to read Xenophon's Anabasis, are all translations just about the same or is there one I really should be looking for?
No military history nerds here?  :yeahright:
I suggest one translated into English.
How's that?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: lustindarkness on July 30, 2009, 08:32:37 PM
Quote from: PDH on July 30, 2009, 08:30:27 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on July 30, 2009, 08:06:53 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on July 29, 2009, 12:58:54 PM
I would like to read Xenophon's Anabasis, are all translations just about the same or is there one I really should be looking for?
No military history nerds here?  :yeahright:
I suggest one translated into English.
How's that?
Better than I expected. :hug:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Alatriste on July 31, 2009, 01:24:09 AM
Quote from: lustindarkness on July 30, 2009, 08:06:53 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on July 29, 2009, 12:58:54 PM
I would like to read Xenophon's Anabasis, are all translations just about the same or is there one I really should be looking for?
No military history nerds here?  :yeahright:

Learn Greek, νooβ (noob in Greek) kekeke  :nerd:  :P

Now, seriously, the translation by H.G. Daykins is available in the web (and there is a modern "paper" edition too,

Anabasis: The March Up Country, transl. by H.G. Dakyns, El Paso Norte Press, 2007, ISBN 1934255033.

http://www.classicsarchive.com/A/books/Anabasis__translation_by_Dakyns_-_Xenophon/
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: lustindarkness on July 31, 2009, 10:10:55 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on July 31, 2009, 01:24:09 AM
Quote from: lustindarkness on July 30, 2009, 08:06:53 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on July 29, 2009, 12:58:54 PM
I would like to read Xenophon's Anabasis, are all translations just about the same or is there one I really should be looking for?
No military history nerds here?  :yeahright:

Learn Greek, νooβ (noob in Greek) kekeke  :nerd:  :P

Now, seriously, the translation by H.G. Daykins is available in the web (and there is a modern "paper" edition too,

Anabasis: The March Up Country, transl. by H.G. Dakyns, El Paso Norte Press, 2007, ISBN 1934255033.

http://www.classicsarchive.com/A/books/Anabasis__translation_by_Dakyns_-_Xenophon/


Niiice, weekend reading!
But not sure if I'll do the ebook thing, I kinda like a good paperback book in my hands, we'll see. Thanks!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 31, 2009, 12:44:32 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on July 31, 2009, 01:24:09 AM


Anabasis: The March Up Country,

:w00t:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.infinitas.com.au%2FProductImages%2F9780743435383.jpg&hash=b6939b5a7bdce8733d4f0759601dc59fc59bc66e)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 31, 2009, 12:55:02 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 31, 2009, 12:44:32 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on July 31, 2009, 01:24:09 AM


Anabasis: The March Up Country,

:w00t:


Oh, man, are you ever asking for it.  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 31, 2009, 02:29:30 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 31, 2009, 12:55:02 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 31, 2009, 12:44:32 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on July 31, 2009, 01:24:09 AM


Anabasis: The March Up Country,

:w00t:


Oh, man, are you ever asking for it.  :lol:

I gave up. Somebody else can rub his face in dog shit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 31, 2009, 02:30:57 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 31, 2009, 02:29:30 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 31, 2009, 12:55:02 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 31, 2009, 12:44:32 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on July 31, 2009, 01:24:09 AM


Anabasis: The March Up Country,

:w00t:


Oh, man, are you ever asking for it.  :lol:

I gave up. Somebody else can rub his face in dog shit.

I win! I win!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 31, 2009, 02:34:13 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 31, 2009, 02:30:57 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 31, 2009, 02:29:30 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 31, 2009, 12:55:02 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 31, 2009, 12:44:32 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on July 31, 2009, 01:24:09 AM


Anabasis: The March Up Country,

:w00t:


Oh, man, are you ever asking for it.  :lol:

I gave up. Somebody else can rub his face in dog shit.

I win! I win!

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi94.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl108%2Fbillelzebub%2F724you_win_the_prize.jpg&hash=b5481c35c93a49e2f2006159a26bd25ac988690b)

Yep, you won.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 03, 2009, 11:29:55 AM
I just finished Giles Milton's 'Paradise Lost: Smyrna 1922 The Destruction of Islam's City of Tolerance'.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Paradise-Lost-Giles-Milton/dp/0340837861
It's generally very good and an interesting read.  It's very sad at the end.

However I was annoyed all the way through by the subtitle 'the destruction of Islam's city of tolerance'.  It seemed like that title had been tacked on to shift a few more copies from people interested in Islam, especially in a sort of negative way, since 9/11.  Basically I think they tried to make the book a bit topical with that title.  My problem with it is that in the book itself there's very little suggestion that it had much to do with Islam at all, indeed there's very little about Islam in the book.  The main problem that caused Smyrna's destruction seems to be racial.  That this was Ataturk's attempt to get rid of a number of troublesome minorities and though the brutality wasn't reprised this was just a prelude to St Lausanne.  The book quotes nationalist Turks discussing the 'race problem' and contemporary journalists saying that with this Turkey is ridding itself of the 'race problem' and except in the sense that Islam is a part of Turkish identity there is really very little about religion. 

It's really good but I was annoyed by the tacking on of a generally irrelevant sub-title <_<
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on August 03, 2009, 11:50:18 AM
Joe Abercrombie- Best Served Cold

A great follow-up to The First Law.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 03, 2009, 02:18:07 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 03, 2009, 11:29:55 AM
I just finished Giles Milton's 'Paradise Lost: Smyrna 1922 The Destruction of Islam's City of Tolerance'.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Paradise-Lost-Giles-Milton/dp/0340837861
It's generally very good and an interesting read.  It's very sad at the end.

However I was annoyed all the way through by the subtitle 'the destruction of Islam's city of tolerance'.  It seemed like that title had been tacked on to shift a few more copies from people interested in Islam, especially in a sort of negative way, since 9/11.  Basically I think they tried to make the book a bit topical with that title.  My problem with it is that in the book itself there's very little suggestion that it had much to do with Islam at all, indeed there's very little about Islam in the book.  The main problem that caused Smyrna's destruction seems to be racial.  That this was Ataturk's attempt to get rid of a number of troublesome minorities and though the brutality wasn't reprised this was just a prelude to St Lausanne.  The book quotes nationalist Turks discussing the 'race problem' and contemporary journalists saying that with this Turkey is ridding itself of the 'race problem' and except in the sense that Islam is a part of Turkish identity there is really very little about religion. 

It's really good but I was annoyed by the tacking on of a generally irrelevant sub-title <_<
I was going to get this but ended up getting Taner Akçam's A Shameful Act.  Love that the author's name is Milton, though. 

I wouldn't call Turks-Greeks-Armenians different races.  Within Turkey are many different races, but the "Greek race" is as well represented in modern Izmir as it was in Homer's Smyrna, and all the genetic evidence I've seen would back that up for the most part.  You could call it an ethnic conflict, but seeing as how the ethnicities were defined by the faith I don't think it is ridiculous to call it a religious conflict masquerading as an ethnic one. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 03, 2009, 09:00:12 PM
But if you do surely you should make that point somewhere in the book?  Almost the only mention of Islam is in the sub-title.

I use 'race' because that's the word that the Turkish nationalists and reporters quoted in the book used.

Edit:  And I don't think those ethnicities were defined solely by religion.  It was a large part but language and culture matter too. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 03, 2009, 09:21:32 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 03, 2009, 09:00:12 PM
But if you do surely you should make that point somewhere in the book?  Almost the only mention of Islam is in the sub-title.

I use 'race' because that's the word that the Turkish nationalists and reporters quoted in the book used.
Hmm.  You've finished it, and everything?  I'd think it would be hard to write a history of Smyrna without at least mentioning the role Islam played in the Anatolian Turkish ethnogenesis (and, I'd argue, in the greater post-Göçmen Khanate Turkıc peoples as well). 

And Turkish Nationalists were and are, by and large, some of the foulest nationalists around, and among the worst sources of history or anthropology I've ever seen.  "Turk" is no more a racial category than "American", as it is not just the crossroads of Eurasian civilization but also an immigrant society.  I've had conversations in Turkish with one person who could have been tanned Japanese, one who could be Egyptian, and one who could have been Lithuanian. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 03, 2009, 09:45:46 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 03, 2009, 09:21:32 PM
Hmm.  You've finished it, and everything?  I'd think it would be hard to write a history of Smyrna without at least mentioning the role Islam played in the Anatolian Turkish ethnogenesis (and, I'd argue, in the greater post-Göçmen Khanate Turkıc peoples as well). 
It's not a history of Smyrna.  It's a history of Smyrna largely from the perspective of the great Levantine families, though also some Turks, Greeks and Armenians (I think the Jewish and Turkish perspectives were generally lacking) and it's focused on the world of Smyrna prior to WW1 and during WW1 (for example there's a remarkable story about the local Pasha trying to negotiate a separate peace with the allies).  It then deals pretty promptly with the Megali Idea and finally in more depth the destruction of Smyrna.

I'd say about 40% of the book is about September 1922.  The rest from around 1910-22.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 04, 2009, 03:13:45 PM
QuoteIt's not a history of Smyrna.  It's a history of Smyrna largely from the perspective of the great Levantine families, though also some Turks, Greeks and Armenians (I think the Jewish and Turkish perspectives were generally lacking) and it's focused on the world of Smyrna prior to WW1 and during WW1 (for example there's a remarkable story about the local Pasha trying to negotiate a separate peace with the allies).  It then deals pretty promptly with the Megali Idea and finally in more depth the destruction of Smyrna.

I'd say about 40% of the book is about September 1922.  The rest from around 1910-22.
Why on earth would you choose the Levantines?  It is like making a history of the Holocaust from the perspective of the Kashubians. 

EDIT: That's probably why the publishes made him pick "Islam's City of Tolerance".  Most people don't know either Smyrna or Izmir, or the Fire, and their only exposure to Levantines would probably have been the Turk in The Godfather.

EDITEDIT: Turns out I was wrong about that.  Virgil Sollozzo, "The Turk", got his name from his Turkish-like nose and the fact that he does business in Turkey.  I presumed it was because he was a Levantine, though come to think of it I have no idea why a Levantine would be able to speak Sicilian. 


IIRC from reviews that has been one of the primary criticisms, and the main reason I chose Shameful Act over Paradise Lost, brilliant as the title may be.

Have you ever read Middlesex or Birds Without Wings? The destruction of Smyrna is a huge event in both novels.  Both get some basic facts wrong (especially the latter, I'm half convinced  Bernières didn't read a whole book on late Ottoman Anatolia), but both are good.  Especially Middlesex. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 05, 2009, 09:38:43 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 04, 2009, 03:13:45 PM
Why on earth would you choose the Levantines?  It is like making a history of the Holocaust from the perspective of the Kashubians. 
Well I think it fits better with the title.  The American suburb with the American International College was nicknamed 'paradise'.  The Levantines did live in this very mixed world, perhaps more than other residents of Smyrna.  They'd descended from English, French and Italian foreigners in Ottoman Turkey, most of them remained (and led relief efforts) during the First World War.  Theirs was a blessed existence.  He gets far more Armenian focused during the story of the destruction itself but I think the Levantine focus makes Smyrna more of a paradise.  And it could be that Giles Milton is comfortable in English/French/Italian but not Turkish/Armenian/Greek so the Levantine diaries and interviews are more accessible sources.

I did, however, love the story of Hortense Wood who lived in the richest suburb.  She was in her 60s or 70s by the time of the destruction of Smyrna.  Apparently she shouted down, told off and generally scared the Turkish irregulars.  Her nephew remembers her standing in the middle of the square while guns are being fired and houses looted waving her umbrella round shouting Turkish insults and telling them to all go away :lol:

Her house was the only one in that suburb to survive intact and was later used as a meetinpoint for Ataturk (who she hugely admired).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 07, 2009, 11:17:48 AM
My reading list for the sunny beaches of Fuerteventura:

Europe's Tragedy: A New History of the Thirty Years War (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Europes-Tragedy-History-Thirty-Years/dp/0713995920/ref=pd_ys_iyr_img?ie=UTF8&coliid=I309N5072KT0IB&colid=124NHKDAEIKSC)
The Enemy at the Gate: Habsburgs, Ottomans and the Battle for Europe (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Enemy-Gate-Habsburgs-Ottomans-Battle/dp/0224073648/ref=pd_ybh_2?pf_rd_p=138755991&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_t=1501&pf_rd_i=ybh&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=06NDVWTQ9RECW55XQHFG) (siege of 1683)
The Pursuit of Glory: Europe 1648-1815 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pursuit-Glory-Europe-1648-1815/dp/014016667X/ref=pd_ys_iyr8)
Die Verwandlung der Welt: Eine Geschichte des 19. Jahrhunderts (http://www.amazon.de/Die-Verwandlung-Welt-Geschichte-Jahrhunderts/dp/3406582834/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249661257&sr=8-1) (a 1500 pages tome about the long 19th century)

Backups if I finish too fast:
Napoleon's Wars: An International History, 1803-1815 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Napoleons-Wars-International-History-1803-1815/dp/0141014202/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249661148&sr=8-1)
and/or
Iron Kingdom: The Rise and Downfall of Prussia, 1600-1947 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Iron-Kingdom-Downfall-Prussia-1600-1947/dp/0140293345/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249661774&sr=1-1)
and/or
The Birth of the Modern World, 1780-1914: Global Connections and Comparisons (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Birth-Modern-World-1780-1914-Connections/dp/0631236163/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249661786&sr=1-1)

I don't plan to do anything else besides sleeping, eating, lieing on the beach or pool and reading a whole fucklot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 09, 2009, 01:23:21 AM
Does anybody know of any interesting books on Sumerian, Babylonian, Phoenician and Carthaginian civilizations, particularly their religion and government? 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on August 09, 2009, 01:30:31 AM
Haha, just going to keep asking till someone succeeds in recommending a good one? :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 09, 2009, 11:13:09 AM
Quote from: Judas Iscariot on August 09, 2009, 01:30:31 AM
Haha, just going to keep asking till someone succeeds in recommending a good one? :lol:
I usually only ask one request till I get one, and pretty often I get one.  This seems like a pretty interesting topic for most people, unlike, say, the Cilician Kingdom of Armenia in the early 14th Century. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 09, 2009, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 09, 2009, 01:23:21 AM
Does anybody know of any interesting books on Sumerian, Babylonian, Phoenician and Carthaginian civilizations,

Gilgamesh
The Aeneid
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 10, 2009, 10:36:05 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 09, 2009, 01:23:21 AM
Does anybody know of any interesting books on Sumerian, Babylonian, Phoenician and Carthaginian civilizations, particularly their religion and government?

I was looking for something similar recently, but my books still to be read list is already rather daunting without taking on a whole new category.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 10, 2009, 10:58:12 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 10, 2009, 10:36:05 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 09, 2009, 01:23:21 AM
Does anybody know of any interesting books on Sumerian, Babylonian, Phoenician and Carthaginian civilizations, particularly their religion and government?

I was looking for something similar recently, but my books still to be read list is already rather daunting without taking on a whole new category.
If you find anything, be sure to post it.  Heather's The Fall is very interesting.  Actually, I think a pretty large percentage of the books I read now I originally hear of on here.

Anyone read A Farewell To Alms?  It is a bit like a Diamond book, though I don't think the author is as intelligent or, to be honest, as qualified.  A bit too much Slate-style counter-intuitivieness for counter-intuitiveness' sake for my taste, though a lot of the raw information and basic points are very interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 10, 2009, 11:06:05 AM
Currently reading, more or less simultaneously:
A Farewell to Alms, mentioned previously.
The Fall of the Roman Empire, very interesting, author has quite a knowledge of the period and is just talented.   Love the look at barbarian lifestyles, though I'm afraid that at times the book tends towards generality; I know enough of the Hunnic expansion to know that their mastery of the asymmetric Hunnic bow was certainly not enough to kick out all the Indo-European peoples from the steppe as the Saka and Yuezhi used a transitory type of bow closer to the Hunnic than the Scythian.  I'm wondering if the work is full of this and I just don't know it, or if this is just a particularly difficult subject, probably the latter.

On my recently acquired Kindle
Osman's Dream: A bit too much a series of events, I'd vastly prefer a description of some of the infinitely more fascinating Ottoman social structures and practices (the devşirme, the various Sufi orders).  Also, for all her respect for Ottoman and Muslim civilization, her views on the Byzantines are fantastically silly. The Byzantine Church didn't break from Rome, Rome just got uppity. 
The Evolution of God: Very interesting, if occasionally a little shallow or mystical (I generally like my religion and my scholarship to be as separated as possible). A lot of fascinating anecdotes. 

Recently Finished
The Great Arab Conquests. Very military centered, as the title would suggest.  Very interesting; fascinating how skilled, fanatical and clever the early Muslims were.  Undoutably some of the greatest conquerers in history even if they were basically fighting two huge corpses for dominance of most of the world. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 10, 2009, 12:23:42 PM
The library has a learn to read Korean set but it's out. <_<

So I took out Red Phoenix by Larry Bond instead! :w00t: 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 10, 2009, 02:40:00 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 10, 2009, 11:06:05 AM
The Fall of the Roman Empire, very interesting, author has quite a knowledge of the period and is just talented.   Love the look at barbarian lifestyles, though I'm afraid that at times the book tends towards generality; I know enough of the Hunnic expansion to know that their mastery of the asymmetric Hunnic bow was certainly not enough to kick out all the Indo-European peoples from the steppe as the Saka and Yuezhi used a transitory type of bow closer to the Hunnic than the Scythian.  I'm wondering if the work is full of this and I just don't know it, or if this is just a particularly difficult subject, probably the latter.

Problem with this period is the paucity and lack of reliability of source material.  When you actually start compiling the hard evidence about the Huns or the "Hunnic expansion" it is distressingly light.  We know that a people that the Romans called the Huns show up at a certain point and do things like harass the Goths, exact tribute from Constantinople and periodically raid the West.  We know that their core elite group claimed a steppe nomad ancestry and rode horses.  We know that by the time they become a significant factor in Roman politics, they -- like most of the barbarian gens -- are in fact made up of a polyglot, multi-cultural warrior band, employing a bewildering variety of weapons and tactics (and at least some sources a suggest a primarily infantry force).  We know the basics of their direct impact within the Empire and their spectacular post-Attila collapse.  And we also have at our disposal a variety of supposed oral histories, legends, apochropha and travellers tales about them.   Add it all up and it doesn't come to that much; the usual historical approach is then to try to make various plausible inferences; not surprisingly, historians can't seem to fully agree as to which inferences are plausible. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 10, 2009, 04:28:22 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 10, 2009, 11:06:05 AM
Osman's Dream: A bit too much a series of events, I'd vastly prefer a description of some of the infinitely more fascinating Ottoman social structures and practices (the devşirme, the various Sufi orders).  Also, for all her respect for Ottoman and Muslim civilization, her views on the Byzantines are fantastically silly. The Byzantine Church didn't break from Rome, Rome just got uppity. 
The Byzantines left Holy Mother Church.  It was probably for the best because they were a degenerate civilisation.  When they are ready to return (on their knees in sackcloth with ashes on their face) we'll be ready, we'll be where we always have been and where we always have been.  Unlike some <_<
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 10, 2009, 05:03:41 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 10, 2009, 04:28:22 PM
The Byzantines left Holy Mother Church.  It was probably for the best because they were a degenerate civilisation.  When they are ready to return (on their knees in sackcloth with ashes on their face) we'll be ready, we'll be where we always have been and where we always have been.  Unlike some <_<
<_<
Figured you were above trolling, Sheilbh.  And of course the Orthodox Church's heart had to move; The Whore of Rome made sure of that. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/PriseDeConstantinople1204PalmaLeJeune.JPG)

Besides, how can one love the Ottomans without the Byzantines?  The Byzantine tradition was the greater part of the Ottoman; without the Greeks and Armenians, the Turks never would have risen above the status of semi-literate, half-Persianate nomads, living off raids and slavery. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 10, 2009, 05:07:41 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 10, 2009, 02:40:00 PMAdd it all up and it doesn't come to that much; the usual historical approach is then to try to make various plausible inferences; not surprisingly, historians can't seem to fully agree as to which inferences are plausible.
Completely understand.  But my complaint is that Heather speaks with far more certainty than is appropriate for the field. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 10, 2009, 05:25:54 PM
I've found Beevor's Stalingrad somewhat disappointing.  He takes alot of the German accounts at face value.  He unquestionably accepts the 22 Panzer division excuse for it's poor performance which amount to "Mice ate our tanks".  That always seemed like a lame excuse.  He also criticizes Gehlen for correctly for failing to spot the soviet mobilization against Army group South.  He makes it seem as if he was concerned by an imaginary offensive against Army Group Center.  He never mention that the Soviets did launch a major offensive in that area.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on August 10, 2009, 05:51:53 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 10, 2009, 11:06:05 AM
Recently Finished
The Great Arab Conquests. Very military centered, as the title would suggest.  Very interesting; fascinating how skilled, fanatical and clever the early Muslims were.  Undoutably some of the greatest conquerers in history even if they were basically fighting two huge corpses for dominance of most of the world.

I've put that one on hold for the moment.  Definitely very interesting period in history, but also interesting how few sources of information we have.  I found it to be a somewhat dry read, which is unusual for all the violence and killing it describes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on August 10, 2009, 05:54:08 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 10, 2009, 05:51:53 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 10, 2009, 11:06:05 AM
Recently Finished
The Great Arab Conquests. Very military centered, as the title would suggest.  Very interesting; fascinating how skilled, fanatical and clever the early Muslims were.  Undoutably some of the greatest conquerers in history even if they were basically fighting two huge corpses for dominance of most of the world.

I've put that one on hold for the moment.  Definitely very interesting period in history, but also interesting how few sources of information we have.  I found it to be a somewhat dry read, which is unusual for all the violence and killing it describes.
I love it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 11, 2009, 01:48:13 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 10, 2009, 05:03:41 PM
Besides, how can one love the Ottomans without the Byzantines?  The Byzantine tradition was the greater part of the Ottoman; without the Greeks and Armenians, the Turks never would have risen above the status of semi-literate, half-Persianate nomads, living off raids and slavery.
I don't love the Ottomans I think their degenerate too.  In that region I love the Turkish Republic, Israel, the Arabs, the Persia of Nader Shah and 20th century Iran.  The rest are degenerate dead weight <_<
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 11, 2009, 04:13:00 PM
:yes:

Sheilbh prefers the overthrow of legitimate regimes by delusional people of ill repute (re: Cromwell, Nadir Shah, Ataturk...Obama). :x
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on August 11, 2009, 05:40:59 PM
Anyone have a good book on Chinese history, particularly the Yuan, Ming, and/or Qing Dynasties? I'm looking for something of a general history, though with a focus on the political and military aspects (i.e., struggles within and without), and cultural/economic aspects (trade, how people made their living). And nothing dry or academic - I don't want to be put to sleep.

Naturally, any recommendations that don't fit all of the above are welcome. I don't expect to find something that fits exactly what I'm looking for.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 11, 2009, 05:42:54 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on August 11, 2009, 05:40:59 PM
Anyone have a good book on Chinese history, particularly the Yuan, Ming, and/or Qing Dynasties? I'm looking for something of a general history, though with a focus on the political and military aspects (i.e., struggles within and without), and cultural/economic aspects (trade, how people made their living). And nothing dry or academic - I don't want to be put to sleep.

Naturally, any recommendations that don't fit all of the above are welcome. I don't expect to find something that fits exactly what I'm looking for.
Bob, I pmed you 4 times last week, where you been?

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on August 11, 2009, 05:47:42 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on August 11, 2009, 05:40:59 PM
Anyone have a good book on Chinese history, particularly the Yuan, Ming, and/or Qing Dynasties? I'm looking for something of a general history, though with a focus on the political and military aspects (i.e., struggles within and without), and cultural/economic aspects (trade, how people made their living). And nothing dry or academic - I don't want to be put to sleep.

Naturally, any recommendations that don't fit all of the above are welcome. I don't expect to find something that fits exactly what I'm looking for.

Chariot by Cotterell has some bits on the battles in the Spring and Autumn periods of Chinese history. I wouldn't pay more than the penny used you can get it for however. Plus there isn't a whole lot on China as it covers China, India, Egypt and the Hittites. And Greece.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on August 11, 2009, 06:36:32 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 11, 2009, 05:42:54 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on August 11, 2009, 05:40:59 PM
Anyone have a good book on Chinese history, particularly the Yuan, Ming, and/or Qing Dynasties? I'm looking for something of a general history, though with a focus on the political and military aspects (i.e., struggles within and without), and cultural/economic aspects (trade, how people made their living). And nothing dry or academic - I don't want to be put to sleep.

Naturally, any recommendations that don't fit all of the above are welcome. I don't expect to find something that fits exactly what I'm looking for.
Bob, I pmed you 4 times last week, where you been?

Dude, I told you I was going on vacation.  :P I was off in Mongolia, blissfully far from any internet service.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 11, 2009, 07:27:40 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 11, 2009, 01:48:13 PM
I don't love the Ottomans I think their degenerate too.  In that region I love the Turkish Republic, Israel, the Arabs, the Persia of Nader Shah and 20th century Iran.  The rest are degenerate dead weight <_<
The Arabs had two centuries of genius run by half-Berber and half and fully Persian science, and by the time the Ottomans established their empire the Arab world was spent intellectually and enviormentally. No rationale behind this, especially as the architectual, spiritual and cultural accomplishments of the Arabs and post-Saffavid Iran pale in comparison to their Sassanid and Byzantine antecedents. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 11, 2009, 08:14:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 11, 2009, 04:13:00 PM
:yes:

Sheilbh prefers the overthrow of legitimate regimes by delusional people of ill repute (re: Cromwell, Nadir Shah, Ataturk...Obama). :x
Don't forget Robespierre :contract:

I'm a big fan of the American founders too.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 11, 2009, 09:33:11 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 11, 2009, 08:14:39 PM
I'm a big fan of the American founders too.

AKA The Whiny Bitches
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 11, 2009, 09:51:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 11, 2009, 09:33:11 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 11, 2009, 08:14:39 PM
I'm a big fan of the American founders too.

AKA The Whiny Bitches
Why don't you move to Canada then, Loyalist scum!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 11, 2009, 10:00:40 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 11, 2009, 09:51:25 PM
Why don't you move to Canada then, Loyalist scum!

Weather sucks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 11, 2009, 10:16:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 11, 2009, 10:00:40 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 11, 2009, 09:51:25 PM
Why don't you move to Canada then, Loyalist scum!

Weather sucks.
Australia then?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 11, 2009, 11:22:09 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 11, 2009, 10:16:46 PM
Australia then?

I think I'd rather be in Alta California.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Camerus on August 12, 2009, 12:05:07 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on August 11, 2009, 05:40:59 PM
Anyone have a good book on Chinese history, particularly the Yuan, Ming, and/or Qing Dynasties? I'm looking for something of a general history, though with a focus on the political and military aspects (i.e., struggles within and without), and cultural/economic aspects (trade, how people made their living). And nothing dry or academic - I don't want to be put to sleep.

Naturally, any recommendations that don't fit all of the above are welcome. I don't expect to find something that fits exactly what I'm looking for.

Immaneul CY HSU wrote an excellent book, the Rise of Modern China, that deals with the Qing and subsequent periods in Chinese history.  The late John King Fairbank, one of the most respected scholars on Chinese history, also wrote an excellent survey book, China: A New History, that deals with the period you're interested in. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 12, 2009, 11:34:54 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 11, 2009, 09:33:11 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 11, 2009, 08:14:39 PM
I'm a big fan of the American founders too.

AKA The Whiny Bitches
<_< You're the Stuart fan.

Better than Psellus's love for corrupt and degenerate but aesthetically pleasing empires: Russian, Persian, Byzantine, Ottoman and the rest.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 12, 2009, 11:43:44 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 12, 2009, 11:34:54 AM
<_< You're the Stuart fan.
And what did they have to put up with? A bunch of whiners!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 12, 2009, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 12, 2009, 11:34:54 AM
Better than Psellus's love for corrupt and degenerate but aesthetically pleasing empires: Russian, Persian, Byzantine, Ottoman and the rest.
Of these, the Persian and Ottoman are the only "corrupt/degenerate" ones I really like.  If anything, the Russians and Byzantines were far, far tougher than the people they were fighting against.  The Byzantine economy was a fraction of the Ummayad and Abbasid economy, and were far, far poorer.  Same with the Russians against the Germans, French and Swedes.   Byzantine society from the time of Heraclitus to Basil II (by far my favorite period) was almost wholly army-run, obsessed only with their national survival while the Arabs went from utterly fanatical, nearly naked warriors to being too decedent to fight within two centuries. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 12, 2009, 02:08:28 PM
Just picked up Generation Kill and From Beirut to Jerusalem.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 12, 2009, 07:40:02 PM
Really enjoying Generation Kill right now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 12, 2009, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 12, 2009, 07:40:02 PM
Really enjoying Generation Kill right now.
The HBO miniseries was amazing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 14, 2009, 02:22:45 PM
In From Beirut to Lebanon Friedman describes the Alawites as a Muslim sect with Christian-like beliefs, whereas I'd learned that they are a Christian sect.

He also describes the Druze as a Muslim sect with beliefs they keep secret from any non-Druze, whereas I'd learned they believe some dude who wandered into the desert in Egypt was the mahdi.

Who's right and who's wrong?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 14, 2009, 02:33:40 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 14, 2009, 02:22:45 PM
In From Beirut to Lebanon Friedman describes the Alawites as a Muslim sect with Christian-like beliefs, whereas I'd learned that they are a Christian sect.

He also describes the Druze as a Muslim sect with beliefs they keep secret from any non-Druze, whereas I'd learned they believe some dude who wandered into the desert in Egypt was the mahdi.

Who's right and who's wrong?

I always understood the Alawites as Shi'ite Muslims; other Mulsims consider them heterodox. That said, I know nothing of their beliefs.

Druze are most definitely considered their own, seperate religion; originally also an offshoot of Shi'ite Islam. Fun fact: the Druze serve in the armies of both Israel and Syria.

I guess the best way of putting it is that Shi'ite sects are continually springing up throughout history, and given that they often have secretive, strange doctrines, often based on gnosticism, they have a tendency to drift away from what could be considered "Islam". The Druze are much, much further down this particular path of drift than the Alawites.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 14, 2009, 03:35:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 14, 2009, 02:22:45 PM
In From Beirut to Lebanon Friedman describes the Alawites as a Muslim sect with Christian-like beliefs, whereas I'd learned that they are a Christian sect.
They're Muslim.  An off-shoot of Shi'ism.  One of the things that marked the beginning of Syrian-Iranian cooperation was when Ayatollah Khomeini declared that though the Alawites (of which the ASsads are members) are a bit heterodox they were not heretics from Islam.

Quote
He also describes the Druze as a Muslim sect with beliefs they keep secret from any non-Druze, whereas I'd learned they believe some dude who wandered into the desert in Egypt was the mahdi.

Who's right and who's wrong?
My understanding is that the Druze keep their beliefs away from non-Druze but also keep some beliefs away from non-initiated Druze and so on.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 14, 2009, 09:50:51 PM
I've recently finished a bit of a crime drama binge.

I read C.J. Sansom's Shardlake series which is about a hunchbacked Tudor lawyer.  They're very fun if a bit derivative. 

Similarly I've read Stieg Larsson's novels (the two translated into English) and they're really great reads until you finish and you think it was all a bit too coincidental.  In the moment, though, he's an irresistably good thriller writer.

I also read the remarkable and quite fascinating 'The Mantle of the Prophet'.  It's an amazing book I really recommend that tells a general history of Iran, especially in from Reza Shah to Khomeini, and Shi'i Islam largely through its links to the life of a mullah.  So his time at school leads to a discussion of Iran's education system, his attempt to learn mysticism leads to a lengthy chapter of Persian poetry and mysticism's disputed place within Shi'i Islam.  A terrific book, though not the first one I'd read about either Islam or Iran:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mantle+of+the+prophet&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

And Hilary Mantel's magnificent 'A Place of Greater Safety'.  I've always been dubious of historical novels (as opposed to an historical thriller, for example) because I'm not sure what they're for or what the setting is about really.  This is an incredible novel set in the French Revolution, largely dealing with Danton, Robespierre and Desmoulins.  It's a terrific, incredibly enjoyable and well-written work that I just loved.  I can't wait to read her latest (bookie's favourite for the Booker prize) which is called 'Wolf Hall' and is, apparently, an sort-of answer to 'A Man for All Seasons'; it's largely about and sympathetic to Thomas Cromwell and has got some good reviews so I'm quite hopeful.  If 'A Place of Greater Safety' is anything to go by, I think it could be really impressive.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Place-Greater-Safety-Hilary-Mantel/dp/000725055X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250304370&sr=1-2

It's inspired me to buy another copy of 'Citizens' (I gave my last copy to a charity shop) and re-read it.  Also does anyone know of any other good histories of the revolution (as I say I've read Schama, but also Carlyle and LeFebvre) and more particularly has anyone got any recommendations for a book about the Terror and the Directoire?

Edit:  Is it worth getting Michelet or Taine's books on the Revolution? :mellow:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on August 14, 2009, 10:59:09 PM
Given your Romantic leanings, I think you would enjoy quite a lot Michelet. It is wonderful and wonderfully dated. You can almost hear his voice cracking when he speaks of «Le Peuple».

Other interesting reads about the (pre-)Revolution:

Journal of My Life, by Jacques-Louis Ménétra (a glazier's self-indulgent recollection of his life, fascinating).
David Garrioch, The Making of Revolutionary Paris.  (Urban history)

Other readings of the Revolution:
Any books by Soboul for the classic Marxist interpretation
Tocqueville (Ancien Régime and the Revolution) and Furet (Interpreting the French Revolution).
...but those aren't really accounts to speak of.

On the Terror, I am not really up to date with the anglo-saxon production (not much, IIRC), except for the old Palmer, Twelve who Ruled. The Directoire is really only coming up as a topic of interest in French, because it is squeezed between the Revolution's glory years and Napoléon's rise.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 14, 2009, 11:04:49 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 14, 2009, 10:59:09 PMThe Directoire is really only coming up as a topic of interest in French, because it is squeezed between the Revolution's glory years and Napoléon's rise.
This is why it interests me.  The only thing I know about it is the famous fashion for women to wear a red sash around their necks.  But that in itself suggests an interesting period.

Thanks for the other recommendations I'll have a look about them :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on August 16, 2009, 02:34:30 PM
Anyone have a recommendation on a broad overview, "light reading" book on the Roman Empire and times?  My historical interest/knowledge is most recent and American history; the American Revolution is about as far as I go back.

Thanks
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on August 16, 2009, 02:57:50 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 14, 2009, 11:04:49 PM
This is why it interests me.  The only thing I know about it is the famous fashion for women to wear a red sash around their necks.  But that in itself suggests an interesting period.

Thanks for the other recommendations I'll have a look about them :)

I have just checked and one of the classical studies about Thermidor's youth has recently been translated. You can look up François Gendron's The Gilded Youth of Thermidor. I think you'd enjoy it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on August 16, 2009, 03:15:06 PM
Twelve Who Ruled is a very fun read, if nothing else.  I remember it as straining a little too hard to draw parallels between the government of the Terror and 20th-century totalitarian regimes, but well worth the read.

I recently picked up The Terror by David Andress from the library, it has some glowing blurbs from the British press on the back, so I have high expectations.  It seems to be more of a "popular" treatment.  Also got G. Lefebvre's The Great Fear of 1789: Rural Panic in Revolutionary France, written in 30s, enjoying it a lot at the moment.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on August 16, 2009, 03:53:34 PM
I'm reading The path of victory on the the war in the Med in WWII. A mix of hilariously inept Italians (demobilize 600K wops then decide to invade Greece), apathetic greeks and Churchill acting like a flaming nutball (like making plans to invade Sicily in '40).

Not bad for a 6 dollar remainder book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 16, 2009, 04:08:26 PM
Reflecting back on the part in From Beirut to Jerusalem concerning the Hama massacre, is it too obvious to mention that sending bloodthirsty jihadists to Iraq to die was a convenient way for Assad to rid himself of domestic opponents?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on August 16, 2009, 10:08:39 PM
Just about finished The Cult at the End Of The World... about the Aum cult... The trial part will be tonight's bedtime story. Next? I may revisit Dune. :spice:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 16, 2009, 11:45:21 PM
Re-reading Like People In History (finally seeing it in a more critical light) and a bio of James I of England.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 21, 2009, 09:49:04 PM
Squee! I can't wait. I've already read the first book 3-4 times already.

http://www.potomacbooksinc.com/Books/BookDetail.aspx?productID=181775
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PRC on August 21, 2009, 10:39:12 PM
Quote from: sbr on August 16, 2009, 02:34:30 PM
Anyone have a recommendation on a broad overview, "light reading" book on the Roman Empire and times?  My historical interest/knowledge is most recent and American history; the American Revolution is about as far as I go back.

Thanks

On the Fall of the Republic check out "Rubicon" by Tom Holland.. it's light reading but pretty good writing and very readable.  Though again, it focuses on the Fall of the Republic and not the Empire.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 22, 2009, 02:00:26 AM
Just finished American Gods which I think is over-rated.

Also finishing God's Secret Agents by Alice Hogge.  It's a history of the Jesuit missions to England during the reign of Elizabeth and leading up to the Gunpowder plot.  Generally it's very good, the really interesting stuff comes from the Jesuit letters that survive, especially John Gerard and Henry Garnet's (I may have their names the wrong way round).  I think the mission is very different than I would have expected.  My only criticism is that I think she loses focus in a few places and what are important parts of the book seem like digressions until 50 pages on when you realise the relevance.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 22, 2009, 02:04:49 AM
And I'm a quarter of the way through 'The Quincunx' which is a bit of a Victorian pastiche.  So far it's very good with lots of really well-done little features.  No idea how it'll all add up, or if it'll all add up. 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Quincunx-Inheritance-John-Huffam/dp/0140177620
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 22, 2009, 02:24:16 AM
I'm reading Peter F Hamilton's Pandora's Star. I have read the Night's Dawn trilogy years ago. I find Hamilton a low-risk SF choice.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 22, 2009, 03:49:08 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 22, 2009, 02:00:26 AM
Just finished American Gods which I think is over-rated.

:yes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 23, 2009, 06:16:09 PM
Just learned yesterday that my Gram's boyfriend was with the the 555th "Triple Nickle Field Artillery for 17th months in Korea.

So I decided to look the unit up. They served with the 5th Regimental Combat Team.

Unfortunately their unit history is going for $428.16 on Amazon <_<

http://www.amazon.com/Hills-Sacrifice-5th-RCT-Korea/dp/1563115883
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 24, 2009, 03:31:00 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 22, 2009, 02:00:26 AM
Just finished American Gods which I think is over-rated.

It's for Americans.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 24, 2009, 09:02:32 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 22, 2009, 02:04:49 AM
And I'm a quarter of the way through 'The Quincunx' which is a bit of a Victorian pastiche.  So far it's very good with lots of really well-done little features.  No idea how it'll all add up, or if it'll all add up. 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Quincunx-Inheritance-John-Huffam/dp/0140177620

I liked it a lot. However, my favourite by that authour is the excellent Betrayals. It is very much a 'love it or hate it' kind of book - I loved it. I think you would appreciate its brand of witty, intricate cruelty combined with commentary on literary "theory".

http://www.amazon.com/Betrayals-Charles-Palliser/dp/0345404351/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251122413&sr=8-4

Edit: it is very different from the Quincunx (which does indeed add up at the end, though you may have to read it twice to figure it all out).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 24, 2009, 01:42:51 PM
During my holiday I read "Ascent of Money" by Niall Fergason.  I liked the how he tied historical developments into how our system works.  I now have a better understanding of how the bond market works at least.

I also finished Game of Thrones and I am onto the second book.  I didnt think I would like it but I was pleasantly surprised.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 24, 2009, 11:17:18 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 23, 2009, 06:16:09 PM
Just learned yesterday that my Gram's boyfriend was with the the 555th "Triple Nickle Field Artillery for 17th months in Korea.

So I decided to look the unit up. They served with the 5th Regimental Combat Team.

Unfortunately their unit history is going for $428.16 on Amazon <_<

http://www.amazon.com/Hills-Sacrifice-5th-RCT-Korea/dp/1563115883
Anyone know where to get out of order books like this cheap?

Any good recommendations for books on the Korean War?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Alatriste on August 25, 2009, 01:21:41 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 24, 2009, 01:42:51 PM
During my holiday I read "Ascent of Money" by Niall Fergason.  I liked the how he tied historical developments into how our system works.  I now have a better understanding of how the bond market works at least.

I also finished Game of Thrones and I am onto the second book.  I didnt think I would like it but I was pleasantly surprised.

Beware, Niall Ferguson reputation in Economics is not terribly good, at least in his articles on present events. As they use to say, he rush in where angels fear to tread.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:18:36 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 24, 2009, 01:42:51 PM
I also finished Game of Thrones and I am onto the second book.  I didnt think I would like it but I was pleasantly surprised.
That will pass.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 25, 2009, 06:21:30 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 24, 2009, 09:02:32 AMI think you would appreciate its brand of witty, intricate cruelty combined with commentary on literary "theory".
I always thought literary theory was a brand of witty, intricate cruelty.

Thanks for the recommendation.

I continued my crime book binge by starting the Wallander novels.  The first one was good.  I like the very Swedish combination of a normal crime/thriller plot with social concern and a discussion on the problem of immigration :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 25, 2009, 07:33:36 AM
Joyce Carol Oates. :bleeding:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 25, 2009, 01:07:59 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 24, 2009, 11:17:18 PM
Any good recommendations for books on the Korean War?


I really enjoyed "The Coldest Winter"

Here is a review from the NY Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/books/review/Frankel-t.html
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 25, 2009, 01:11:15 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on August 25, 2009, 01:21:41 AM
Beware, Niall Ferguson reputation in Economics is not terribly good

Given recent events no Economist is looking particular stellar.  He is an historian of economics and I enjoyed his historical descriptions. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 25, 2009, 01:11:54 PM
Quote from: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:18:36 AM
That will pass.

Why?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on August 25, 2009, 01:29:01 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 25, 2009, 01:07:59 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 24, 2009, 11:17:18 PM
Any good recommendations for books on the Korean War?


I really enjoyed "The Coldest Winter"

Same here.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:35:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 25, 2009, 01:11:54 PM
Quote from: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:18:36 AM
That will pass.

Why?
Contact Jordanitis.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 26, 2009, 09:30:52 AM
Quote from: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:35:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 25, 2009, 01:11:54 PM
Quote from: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:18:36 AM
That will pass.

Why?
Contact Jordanitis.

You are speaking in code I cannot decode.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on August 26, 2009, 09:38:27 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 26, 2009, 09:30:52 AM
Quote from: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:35:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 25, 2009, 01:11:54 PM
Quote from: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:18:36 AM
That will pass.

Why?
Contact Jordanitis.

You are speaking in code I cannot decode.

The developing tendency to slow down the advancement of plot and focus on the daily minutia of an increasing number of viewpoint characters.  Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series is the classic example:  the first book covers something like a year of time, the last like a day.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 26, 2009, 09:48:16 AM
Thanks for the translation. :cheers:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on August 26, 2009, 11:58:42 AM
reading a novel called "Fruit" (Brian Francis) about a young gay Canadian boy in the burbs. I can relate to the cross-dressing but not the rest of it (i was never attracted to a male teacher/or any adult male ever as a kid, eww). fun sense of the early 80's though from the writer, as well as the retarded things that kids do thinking they are oh so smart, when.....
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 26, 2009, 03:26:18 PM
Quote from: ulmont on August 26, 2009, 09:38:27 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 26, 2009, 09:30:52 AM
Quote from: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:35:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 25, 2009, 01:11:54 PM
Quote from: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:18:36 AM
That will pass.

Why?
Contact Jordanitis.

You are speaking in code I cannot decode.

The developing tendency to slow down the advancement of plot and focus on the daily minutia of an increasing number of viewpoint characters.  Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series is the classic example:  the first book covers something like a year of time, the last like a day.
The last book covered at least a month of time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on August 26, 2009, 03:33:49 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 26, 2009, 03:26:18 PM
Quote from: ulmont on August 26, 2009, 09:38:27 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 26, 2009, 09:30:52 AM
Quote from: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:35:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 25, 2009, 01:11:54 PM
Quote from: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:18:36 AM
That will pass.

Why?
Contact Jordanitis.

You are speaking in code I cannot decode.

The developing tendency to slow down the advancement of plot and focus on the daily minutia of an increasing number of viewpoint characters.  Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series is the classic example:  the first book covers something like a year of time, the last like a day.
The last book covered at least a month of time.

So you claim. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on August 26, 2009, 03:42:37 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 24, 2009, 11:17:18 PM


Any good recommendations for books on the Korean War?

Toland's In Mortal Combat 1950-53 - Is Okay.

This kind of War Fehrenbach -Is Better.

Both should be extremely cheap used.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on September 02, 2009, 08:00:06 PM
Finished reading The Terror by Dan Simmons. 

It was very different. A horror/thriller fiction based on the 1845 Franklin Expedition in the Arctic Circle, which ended up in the deaths of both crews of the Terror and Erebus.

It reads like a good historical novel, well detailed and all that, and often you think you're reading an adventure book, based on the actual events. Except you have this nasty huge monster under the ice killing everyone one by one.

But mostly, you have chapters of men, struggling to survive on the ice under incredibly harsh conditions. Except for the rather metaphysical ending, I thought this book, all 950 pages, was really good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 04, 2009, 09:01:40 PM
Fuck you G.R.R Martin, Jordan's kicking your ass from beyond the grave! :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t:


http://www.dragonmount.com/News/
Quote# CHAPTER ONE of The Gathering Storm is NOW AVAILABLE for FREE on Tor.com. On September 4th at 9:30 PM (EST, GMT -5), you can go to Tor.com to get it. You will need to register with their site, but it is free to do so. Don't miss this opportunity to start reading the book TONIGHT. (And you thought you had plans on Friday night, huh?) Chapter 1 will remain on Tor.com through the end of October. An audio version is also available via the same link.

# The PROLOGUE to The Gathering Storm will be available as an eBook purchase beginning on September 17th. The price will be $2.99 and will be available from Amazon.com, BN.com, Tor.com, as well as other online vendors.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 04, 2009, 09:19:56 PM
I'm currently finishing up Ordered to Die, by Edward J. Erickson, which is a look into the Ottoman military during the Great War.

It is rather dry and not terribly well-written, but it is one of the few English-language works there are on the subject.  Despite the flaws, I do enjoy the plethora of statistics and insight into the Ottoman staff's planning (there was rather little, and it was schizophrenic) as well as the force dispositions and OOBs that dominate the book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on September 07, 2009, 02:23:09 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 26, 2009, 03:26:18 PM
Quote from: ulmont on August 26, 2009, 09:38:27 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 26, 2009, 09:30:52 AM
Quote from: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:35:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 25, 2009, 01:11:54 PM
Quote from: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:18:36 AM
That will pass.

Why?
Contact Jordanitis.

You are speaking in code I cannot decode.

The developing tendency to slow down the advancement of plot and focus on the daily minutia of an increasing number of viewpoint characters.  Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series is the classic example:  the first book covers something like a year of time, the last like a day.
The last book covered at least a month of time.
It may have taken a month to read....
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 07, 2009, 02:27:33 AM
Finishing:
The Pursuit of Glory: Europe 1648-1815 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pursuit-Glory-Europe-1648-1815/dp/014016667X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251313004&sr=8-1) by Tim Blanning.

Wonderful book, looking at all aspects of life during the period, from culture, to commerce, to communication, to court policies, to enlightenment and superstition to warfare and sex and gender. It's a massively interesting book about this period, without too much bias or focus on select countries, and with an extensive list of dozens of books as suggested reading between war, gender, national histories etc.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 07, 2009, 05:00:26 AM
Fiasco, a book about Iraq II & occupation written by a dude who apparently knows every single officer in the US Army.    He's not a very good writer; he strings together quote after quote from this or that unnamed colonel well-versed in Middle East affairs than slaps on a conclusion that doesn't follow.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 07, 2009, 09:12:07 AM
Quote from: Scipio on September 07, 2009, 02:23:09 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 26, 2009, 03:26:18 PM
Quote from: ulmont on August 26, 2009, 09:38:27 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 26, 2009, 09:30:52 AM
Quote from: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:35:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 25, 2009, 01:11:54 PM
Quote from: Scipio on August 25, 2009, 06:18:36 AM
That will pass.

Why?
Contact Jordanitis.

You are speaking in code I cannot decode.

The developing tendency to slow down the advancement of plot and focus on the daily minutia of an increasing number of viewpoint characters.  Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series is the classic example:  the first book covers something like a year of time, the last like a day.
The last book covered at least a month of time.
It may have taken a month to read....
It was all action, so no.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 08, 2009, 09:49:01 AM
I'm reading A Splended Exchange: How Trade Shaped the World by William Bernstein. Very entertaining so far, but more in the way of a string of anecdotes - none the worse for that.

He has a neat turn of phrase. On the incredible Portuguese over-extention in its attempt to monopolize the east india trade after Vasco De Gama and the Treaty of Tordesallis (sp?): 'Portugual was the dog who caught the car'.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on September 08, 2009, 10:19:45 PM
The Glass Books of the Dream Eaters, by Gordon Dahlquist.

Bugnutz crazy.  But awesome.  It's like a John Buchan/Rider-Haggard/Anthony Hope Pastiche, with completely insane HG Wellsian sci-fi in an alternate Britain.  Just awesome.

And the sequel I will probably end up starting tomorrow.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 08, 2009, 05:01:48 PM
Question re Perdido Street Station.

Bought it for the Kindle b/c the price was right.

But is it worth reading?  Figure some here must have read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on October 08, 2009, 05:10:26 PM
Just finished "Unseen Academicals" by Terry Pratchett. :lol:

His latest novel and whatever else the disease has done to him it has not yet dulled his ability to create a fine comic novel. Especially as I am certain it is his longest book to date.

I would recommend this book to any Languishite, regardless of their political stripe or cultural creed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on October 08, 2009, 05:15:04 PM
How I Became a Famous Novelist, by Steve Hely.  Hilarious send up of lit fiction, he posits a character who does what many overbred English majors think about doing: crafting a stereotypical Robert James Waller novel and cashing in.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 08, 2009, 06:20:01 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 08, 2009, 05:01:48 PM
Question re Perdido Street Station.

Bought it for the Kindle b/c the price was right.

But is it worth reading?  Figure some here must have read.

It depends. If a guy having sex with an insect-faced women doesn't throw you off ... it is very heavy on the atmosphere (a sort of hallucinogenic medly of steampunk with Dickensian undertones); the plot goes every which way. Lots of interesting parts and ideas but sadly less than the sum of them. Of course I happen to like the rotting aesthetic of the city desribed, but if you don't, it isn't really worth reading - though in some circles it is considered a masterpiece. Peake covered similar ground in Gormenghast, but much better.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on October 08, 2009, 06:22:46 PM
What kind of insect?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on October 08, 2009, 07:20:17 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 08, 2009, 05:01:48 PM
Question re Perdido Street Station.

Bought it for the Kindle b/c the price was right.

But is it worth reading?  Figure some here must have read.

Yes, very much worth reading.  I'm a fan of all China Mieville's stuff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 09, 2009, 09:38:18 AM
Thanks fellas.  It was a free download, so I figure I might as well give it a shot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Alatriste on October 09, 2009, 10:44:13 AM
Stieg Larsson's "Men who hate women" (original "Män som hatar kvinnor"). The Spanish translation is quite softer, 'Men who didn't love women'. I don't know which one is closer to the Swedish title, but "didn't love" doesn't quite express the level of hatred some characters in the book feel.

Larsson's books have had a tremendous success in all of Europe lately, and I wondered if that success was justified... My verdict is, mostly yes. Not only is the novel well written, it's quite refreshing to read a thriller in which characters do actually have an interesting inner life when 99% of them are so obviously written thinking in the potential movie adaptation that you can even guess the actors the author wanted in his/her dreams. Add to that good writing a veteran leftist journalist specialized in denouncing corrupt businessmen and a dark Gothic young girl living on the fringes of society, both skilled at research but not at looking for murderers, and a very liberated "Scandinavian" sexual life, and success was a given.

Weak points? Well, it's a novel with a feminist thesis to defend and makes no secret of it. If you remember that [very minor spoiler ahead] you will guess who's the murderer roughly 30% into the book, mainly because there is a clear lack of suitable alternatives... that's the reason I called it a thriller and not a detective novel; if you expect to find a whodunit, this novel on the surface seems to be one, but actually is not. Hitchcock could have made a great movie in which we knew who the murderer was but the protagonist pair didn't.

Recommended, but remember this one doesn't include old vicars with cats living in Surrey. The cast includes lesbians, homos, nazis, free love and at least one very civilized menage a trois. In short, it's 100% old Yuropean.       
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on October 09, 2009, 01:23:16 PM
Just Finished Dylan's "Chronicles" Vol. 1. Fun light read that has reignited my interest slightly in his music, and some others he talks of in the book. Currently reading "The Man Game" which is written by a local dude... takes place mostly after the great Vancouver Fire of 1886. Sort of a Fight Club in Deadwood as done by Thomas Pynchon, it seems so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 18, 2009, 05:15:06 AM
Alright the fad is getting dull:

After Pride & Prejudice & Zombies and Sense & Sensibility & Seamonsters comes:

Queen Victoria: Demon Hunter (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/144470026X/ref=pe_3431_17153481_snp_dp)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51BpCxrpvlL._SL500_AA240_.jpg&hash=1f89572083df5d317358d498cc64ced682f48d04)

QuoteThere were many staff at Kensington Palace, fulfilling many roles; a man who was employed to catch rats, another whose job it was to sweep the chimneys. That there was someone expected to hunt Demons did not shock the new Queen; that it was to be her was something of a surprise.

London, 1838. Queen Victoria is crowned; she receives the orb, the sceptre, and an arsenal of blood-stained weaponry. Because if Britain is about to become the greatest power of the age, there s the small matter of the demons to take care of first...

But rather than dreaming of demon hunting, it is her love for Prince Albert that occupies her thoughts. Can she dedicate her life to saving her country when her heart belongs elsewhere?

With lashings of glistening entrails, decapitations, and foul demons, this masterly new portrait will give a fresh understanding of a remarkable woman, a legendary monarch, and quite possibly the best Demon Hunter the world has ever seen . . .

A E Moorat weaves a seamlessly lurid tapestry of royal biography, gothic horror and fist-gnawing comedy as he lifts the veil on what really took place on the dark and cobbled streets of 19th-century England.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on October 18, 2009, 05:53:02 PM
Finishing off Saul David's book on the Zulu War of 1879; the part where he points out many of the discrepancies between the film Zulu and the actual people at Rorkes Drift is particularly interesting. And I hadn't read a proper account of the attempted scapegoating of Durnford before, so I am surfeited with new knowledge of absolutely no use to me given the Yi Rule.

I am honestly surprised, given my interests, that I have not read more about the War previously. Isandhlwana, Rorkes Drift and Ulundi were not the only interesting parts of the War, as I have now discovered.

I'd recommend the book even to those not interested in history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 22, 2009, 01:33:50 AM
I've read alot of Ringo's other more traditional action/scifi series before, but wow, I can't imagine what reading this must be like.

It's like Cdm & Siege dropped acid and cowrote a book together, with Hansmiester as their political consultant.

http://hradzka.livejournal.com/194753.html
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 22, 2009, 01:57:26 AM
Pciked up yesterday: "The book without name" by Anonymous.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on October 22, 2009, 02:06:09 AM
That fucking hurt me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on October 22, 2009, 05:48:10 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 22, 2009, 01:33:50 AM
I've read alot of Ringo's other more traditional action/scifi series before, but wow, I can't imagine what reading this must be like.

It's like Cdm & Siege dropped acid and cowrote a book together, with Hansmiester as their political consultant.

http://hradzka.livejournal.com/194753.html

Man I had nightmares over that last night.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 22, 2009, 06:25:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 22, 2009, 05:48:10 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 22, 2009, 01:33:50 AM
I've read alot of Ringo's other more traditional action/scifi series before, but wow, I can't imagine what reading this must be like.

It's like Cdm & Siege dropped acid and cowrote a book together, with Hansmiester as their political consultant.

http://hradzka.livejournal.com/194753.html

Man I had nightmares over that last night.
Really? While the subject matter was disturbing, I thought the review was quite amusing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on October 22, 2009, 06:30:35 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 22, 2009, 06:25:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 22, 2009, 05:48:10 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 22, 2009, 01:33:50 AM
I've read alot of Ringo's other more traditional action/scifi series before, but wow, I can't imagine what reading this must be like.

It's like Cdm & Siege dropped acid and cowrote a book together, with Hansmiester as their political consultant.

http://hradzka.livejournal.com/194753.html

Man I had nightmares over that last night.
Really? While the subject matter was disturbing, I thought the review was quite amusing.

The prose actually gave me nightmares.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 22, 2009, 09:09:15 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 22, 2009, 06:30:35 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 22, 2009, 06:25:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 22, 2009, 05:48:10 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 22, 2009, 01:33:50 AM
I've read alot of Ringo's other more traditional action/scifi series before, but wow, I can't imagine what reading this must be like.

It's like Cdm & Siege dropped acid and cowrote a book together, with Hansmiester as their political consultant.

http://hradzka.livejournal.com/194753.html

Man I had nightmares over that last night.
Really? While the subject matter was disturbing, I thought the review was quite amusing.

The prose actually gave me nightmares.
What kind of nightmares?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 23, 2009, 07:35:51 AM
He was the last person on earth and the only thing to read was Baen books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 24, 2009, 11:15:51 AM
I picked up zombie Robert Jordan's latest book as a gift for a friend. I'll read it out of duty, I started this in high school 16 years ago. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on October 24, 2009, 03:46:30 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 22, 2009, 01:33:50 AM
I've read alot of Ringo's other more traditional action/scifi series before, but wow, I can't imagine what reading this must be like.

It's like Cdm & Siege dropped acid and cowrote a book together, with Hansmiester as their political consultant.

http://hradzka.livejournal.com/194753.html
:lmfao:

I can't stop laughing.  OH JOHN RINGO NO!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on October 24, 2009, 08:01:01 PM
Wait.

The guy sets up his own little princely state in the Caucasus based upon the descendants of the Varangians where he fucks a harem of young women/girls every night, and you compare him to CDM?!

I am insulted.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 24, 2009, 11:45:45 PM
I checkd out Ghost ont he Baen website.  In the good old days of action thrillers the bad guys would have some plot to destroy the world or blow up the Washington Monument.

You know, something Evil.

In Ghost the cartoonish terrorists kidnap a bunch of American chicks to rape.  That's how this cabal including Syria, Libya, et al plan to strike out against the West. Kidnap some random kids and rape them. 

His bad guys actually thought they were really hardcore, like they were gonna blow up the motherfucking White House.  It was just so banal.

And a lot of it was the protagonists ruminations on how he has a Dark Side that he constantly has to keep in check.  The whoel thing would work better as one of those lame ass vampire novels.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pat on October 25, 2009, 12:18:20 AM
Been busy reading Swedish constitutional law, but also found time to acquaint myself with the authorship of Houellebecq, who is just brilliant, though he does have a tendency to write the same novel over and over.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 25, 2009, 01:13:48 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 22, 2009, 01:57:26 AM
Pciked up yesterday: "The book without name" by Anonymous.

1/3 through the book and enjoying it a fair bit. Decidedly pulp, set in fictional "Santa Mondega" which is kinda the Mos Eisley of the U.S. (You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.). A mysterious magic blue stone is chased by assassins, monks, a government agent specialized in the supernatural, a bar owner, bounty hunters and the local crime lord. Over the top gruesome murders ensue. Funny, fast paced, and full of your Tarantino/Rodriguez movie clichés.

Decidedly NOT high literature.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 25, 2009, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on October 24, 2009, 08:01:01 PM
Wait.

The guy sets up his own little princely state in the Caucasus based upon the descendants of the Varangians where he fucks a harem of young women/girls every night, and you compare him to CDM?!

I am insulted.
I said it was like something they'd write.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Berkut on October 27, 2009, 02:12:57 PM
I just finished up Shattered Sword.

It jumped to the top of my list of military history. Outstanding.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 28, 2009, 01:17:48 PM
Just picked up two books. To Rule the Waves: How the British Navy Shaped the Modern World, by Arthur Herman (author of How the Scots Invented the Modern World--dont' know if that's a recommendation or not).  And From Babel to Dragoman, by Bernard Lewis.  A collection of essays/lectures on the Middle East.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 28, 2009, 01:21:56 PM
Hey Sty, what did you think of Europe's Tragedy?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 28, 2009, 01:35:34 PM
Some interesting nuggets already from the first.

The Spanish called John Hawkins Juan Aquines.  When Juan's fleet descended on San Juan de Ulloa the Spanish garrison yelled "the Lutherans are here" and ran away.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 28, 2009, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 28, 2009, 01:17:48 PM
Just picked up two books. To Rule the Waves: How the British Navy Shaped the Modern World, by Arthur Herman (author of How the Scots Invented the Modern World--dont' know if that's a recommendation or not).  And From Babel to Dragoman, by Bernard Lewis.  A collection of essays/lectures on the Middle East.

To Rule the waves is pretty good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 29, 2009, 01:37:19 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 28, 2009, 01:21:56 PM
Hey Sty, what did you think of Europe's Tragedy?

Am I Sty? And do you mean the book about the Thirty Years War? :unsure:

If yes, then I must say I liked it. It is very detailed, starting by explaining the organisational structure of the HRE, the religious compromise of Augsburg from 16th century and how the conflict smouldered on from there. One of his main points is that while religion played a major part in the TYW, most of the time it was used as a means to further dynastic agendas (e.g. the Bavarian elector being keen on acquiring the Palatinate, France and the Scandies meddling to become power players in HRE politics etc.).

The book also covers to some depth the adjacent conflicts - Swedes in the Baltics, Transylvanian insurgents, the fight for the Spanish Road through Switzerland, and of course the Dutch struggle against the Habsburgs; plus the economic/financial intricacies of all the bargains.

A whole chapter is devoted to the development of military technology and doctrine during the era (close to the start, so it's not covered much later during the conflict itself). The military campaigns are recorded in sometimes tiresome and confusing detail, and who marches with how many troops for where to where. A detailed map is found at the front and back ends of the hardcover book, though (even if for some weird reason the Danish founded town of Glückstadt is presented on the North Sea coast instead of on the lower Elbe river).

I got the book for under 19 GBP in a promotion from Amazon.co.uk and consider it one of my best book buys this year or last.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Alatriste on October 29, 2009, 02:36:39 AM
I'm intrigued, Syt. Does the book cover the dynastic game everyone played with bishoprics in the HRE?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 29, 2009, 02:43:01 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on October 29, 2009, 02:36:39 AM
I'm intrigued, Syt. Does the book cover the dynastic game everyone played with bishoprics in the HRE?

If you mean the ecclesiastic vs. secular heritages and bids for owner-/rulership then yes, it finds mention. As does the "brothers' dispute" in the house of Habsburg for succeding the throne.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 29, 2009, 07:23:22 PM
I thought this was fun.

The European words for orange come from the Persian narang.  But Arabs and Iranians call the orange the portugal.  That's because the narang is bitter, and the sweet orange was first brought to the Middle East from China by the Portuguese.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on October 29, 2009, 09:11:39 PM
started Zizek's "Violence" the other day. interesting stuff, though I have yet to figure out if he ever comes to any conclusions,though..... more metaphors, similes than a Tom Robbins book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on October 30, 2009, 12:19:11 AM
Reading Spy Wars, about Nosenko's "defection", written by his handler and taking advantage of the opened Soviet archives in the 1990s. It's a good book, especially for its coverage and insight into the operational approaches of the KGB, and the tales of various other spies and agents during the early Cold War, all tied into the Nosenko case.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on October 30, 2009, 12:28:27 AM
Currently finishing up Craig L. Symond's biography of Joe Johnston.  It's proving incredibly enlightening in both good and bad ways.  Specifically, it shows just how a talented general's pride and refusal to buckle from personal scruples can do untold harm when dealing with a man who, like Jefferson Davis, prefers to have nothing but sycophantic yes-men around in favor of those who are openly critical.

That and Hood's a giant dick.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 31, 2009, 01:26:39 PM
I'm delighted to find out there's a sequel to "The Book With No Name".

The first part is a pulp story about a town of crime, full of bounty hunters, crime lords and vampires, struggling to secure an ancient artifact in time for the solar eclipse. Caught in between are two martial arts monks, an assassin Elvis impersonator, a government detective for the supernatural, a young couple stealing stuff they shouldn't, a sleazy barkeeper named Sanchez and a woman without memory.

Faced paced, action filled with epic gun fights and fistycuffs, not very deep, this is a bit like a mix of From Dusk Till Dawn, True Romance, X-Files and Bruce Lee. It wouldn't work as a movie, I guess, but a comic in the veins of Preacher would be perfect.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on October 31, 2009, 01:36:45 PM
Boneshaker, by Cherie Priest.  Entertaining zombie-airship-steampunk American gold-rush novel set in Seattle in the 1870s.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 31, 2009, 01:41:29 PM
I have started on Roberto Bolaño's "2666". Not very far yet. Sections so far are short, with a sudden 4 or 5 page monster sentence in between. :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on November 01, 2009, 09:23:57 PM
Is anyone reading Malthus' Aunt's latest?  Was a huge fan of Oryx & Crake, though it freaked me the fuck out.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on November 01, 2009, 09:45:57 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on November 01, 2009, 09:23:57 PM
Is anyone reading Malthus' Aunt's latest?

With all due respect to Malthus,

fuck no.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 01, 2009, 09:49:22 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on November 01, 2009, 09:23:57 PM
Is anyone reading Malthus' Aunt's latest?

No. If I want to be emasculated, I'll get a girlfriend.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 05, 2009, 03:45:11 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 29, 2009, 01:37:19 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 28, 2009, 01:21:56 PM
Hey Sty, what did you think of Europe's Tragedy?

Am I Sty? And do you mean the book about the Thirty Years War? :unsure:

If yes, then I must say I liked it. It is very detailed, starting by explaining the organisational structure of the HRE, the religious compromise of Augsburg from 16th century and how the conflict smouldered on from there. One of his main points is that while religion played a major part in the TYW, most of the time it was used as a means to further dynastic agendas (e.g. the Bavarian elector being keen on acquiring the Palatinate, France and the Scandies meddling to become power players in HRE politics etc.).

The book also covers to some depth the adjacent conflicts - Swedes in the Baltics, Transylvanian insurgents, the fight for the Spanish Road through Switzerland, and of course the Dutch struggle against the Habsburgs; plus the economic/financial intricacies of all the bargains.

A whole chapter is devoted to the development of military technology and doctrine during the era (close to the start, so it's not covered much later during the conflict itself). The military campaigns are recorded in sometimes tiresome and confusing detail, and who marches with how many troops for where to where. A detailed map is found at the front and back ends of the hardcover book, though (even if for some weird reason the Danish founded town of Glückstadt is presented on the North Sea coast instead of on the lower Elbe river).

I got the book for under 19 GBP in a promotion from Amazon.co.uk and consider it one of my best book buys this year or last.

Thanks - I'm reading it now and finding it a terrible slog - I want the Cole's Notes version I guess, because I simply can't keep all the figures straight - there is much (to me) meaningless detail. I guess it is good to know that "... Werth lead 3,700 men over the frozen Rhine to take Speyer on 2 February ...", but the analysis of the importance of this often gets lost in the mass of confusing detail. Mostly one gets the impression of armies acting much as swarms of locusts, wandering around Germany, occasionally fighting each other while trying and usually failing to get paid ...

Part of the problem is that there is a reason books on the 30 years war are uncommon in English - it is a confusing mess, laking in any sort of straightforward narrative. Though I do think the writer could have used a strict editor. Part of the problem I think is that this writer doesn't have the gift of making his narration sing. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on November 06, 2009, 01:53:26 AM
Among other things, I've been reading this AAR that Berkut linked to in the WitP thread. It's pretty enjoyable: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2238110&mpage=1&key=

And it appears to be ongoing still, though I'm only up to page 14. His format is pretty cool, cool enough to overlook the various spelling and grammatical errors.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 06, 2009, 02:02:20 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 05, 2009, 03:45:11 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 29, 2009, 01:37:19 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 28, 2009, 01:21:56 PM
Hey Sty, what did you think of Europe's Tragedy?

Am I Sty? And do you mean the book about the Thirty Years War? :unsure:

If yes, then I must say I liked it. It is very detailed, starting by explaining the organisational structure of the HRE, the religious compromise of Augsburg from 16th century and how the conflict smouldered on from there. One of his main points is that while religion played a major part in the TYW, most of the time it was used as a means to further dynastic agendas (e.g. the Bavarian elector being keen on acquiring the Palatinate, France and the Scandies meddling to become power players in HRE politics etc.).

The book also covers to some depth the adjacent conflicts - Swedes in the Baltics, Transylvanian insurgents, the fight for the Spanish Road through Switzerland, and of course the Dutch struggle against the Habsburgs; plus the economic/financial intricacies of all the bargains.

A whole chapter is devoted to the development of military technology and doctrine during the era (close to the start, so it's not covered much later during the conflict itself). The military campaigns are recorded in sometimes tiresome and confusing detail, and who marches with how many troops for where to where. A detailed map is found at the front and back ends of the hardcover book, though (even if for some weird reason the Danish founded town of Glückstadt is presented on the North Sea coast instead of on the lower Elbe river).

I got the book for under 19 GBP in a promotion from Amazon.co.uk and consider it one of my best book buys this year or last.

Thanks - I'm reading it now and finding it a terrible slog - I want the Cole's Notes version I guess, because I simply can't keep all the figures straight - there is much (to me) meaningless detail. I guess it is good to know that "... Werth lead 3,700 men over the frozen Rhine to take Speyer on 2 February ...", but the analysis of the importance of this often gets lost in the mass of confusing detail. Mostly one gets the impression of armies acting much as swarms of locusts, wandering around Germany, occasionally fighting each other while trying and usually failing to get paid ...

Part of the problem is that there is a reason books on the 30 years war are uncommon in English - it is a confusing mess, laking in any sort of straightforward narrative. Though I do think the writer could have used a strict editor. Part of the problem I think is that this writer doesn't have the gift of making his narration sing.

I agree with the campaigns being confusing, especially as armies seem to "warp" at times. "Why is her moving from there? Wasn't he at X?"

Where the book does shine is when highlighting the politics (though the amount of Georgs, Michaels, Ferdinands and such can make those also rather confusing). I mostly breezed through the campaigns and cherished the political side (like the Brothers' Feud, Counter Reformation, etc.) and had a good time this way.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 06, 2009, 09:26:20 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2009, 02:02:20 AM
I agree with the campaigns being confusing, especially as armies seem to "warp" at times. "Why is her moving from there? Wasn't he at X?"

Where the book does shine is when highlighting the politics (though the amount of Georgs, Michaels, Ferdinands and such can make those also rather confusing). I mostly breezed through the campaigns and cherished the political side (like the Brothers' Feud, Counter Reformation, etc.) and had a good time this way.

Yup, the political side was a real education. The straightforward war-of-religion impression is definitely long gone, he's very good at teasing out some of the more self-interested motivations. The problem for me is that I am still confused about how the Holy Roman Empire was supposed to work.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 06, 2009, 09:29:45 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2009, 09:26:20 AM
The problem for me is that I am still confused about how the Holy Roman Empire was supposed to work.

I guess that this topic would fill another two tomes, most of it being petty legal bickering and infighting. So it might suit a lawyer. ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 06, 2009, 09:33:12 AM
This page may offer some help, though.
http://www.heraldica.org/topics/national/hre.htm
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 06, 2009, 09:41:15 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2009, 09:29:45 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2009, 09:26:20 AM
The problem for me is that I am still confused about how the Holy Roman Empire was supposed to work.

I guess that this topic would fill another two tomes, most of it being petty legal bickering and infighting. So it might suit a lawyer. ;)

:D

Either that, or gain an understanding of why yer average middle european seemingly preferred having their homelands ravaged by multiple starving mercenaries for decades to yet another round of legal wrangling.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 06, 2009, 10:21:45 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2009, 09:26:20 AM
The problem for me is that I am still confused about how the Holy Roman Empire was supposed to work.

Why do you assume that it was supposed to work?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 06, 2009, 10:46:53 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 06, 2009, 10:21:45 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2009, 09:26:20 AM
The problem for me is that I am still confused about how the Holy Roman Empire was supposed to work.

Why do you assume that it was supposed to work?

I had a suspicion that someone would post something like this.  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on November 06, 2009, 02:06:56 PM
Been reading Beevor's D-Day battle of Normandy.  CdM would approve of the very critical look at the British army.  Apparently different fighting arms didn't like to support each other very much.  Infantry wouldn't help the engineers dig holes and engineers wouldn't pick up their rifles when people were shooting at them.  Also way to much tea drinking.   He has very high praise for the Canadians.  He made an interesting claim that 3% of the casualties suffered by the 115th infantry regiment were due to friendly fire from a Texas national guard unit who had a bad habit of shooting anything that moved.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on November 06, 2009, 02:07:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2009, 02:06:56 PM
Been reading Beevor's D-Day battle of Normandy.  CdM would approve of the very critical look at the British army.  Apparently different fighting arms didn't like to support each other very much.  Infantry wouldn't help the engineers dig holes and engineers wouldn't pick up their rifles when people were shooting at them.  Also way to much tea drinking.   He has very high praise for the Canadians.  He made an interesting claim that 3% of the casualties suffered by the 115th infantry regiment were due to friendly fire from a Texas national guard unit who had a bad habit of shooting anything that moved.

Monty is still outside of Caen awaiting developments.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 06, 2009, 04:31:00 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 06, 2009, 02:07:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2009, 02:06:56 PM
Been reading Beevor's D-Day battle of Normandy.  CdM would approve of the very critical look at the British army.  Apparently different fighting arms didn't like to support each other very much.  Infantry wouldn't help the engineers dig holes and engineers wouldn't pick up their rifles when people were shooting at them.  Also way to much tea drinking.   He has very high praise for the Canadians.  He made an interesting claim that 3% of the casualties suffered by the 115th infantry regiment were due to friendly fire from a Texas national guard unit who had a bad habit of shooting anything that moved.

Monty is still outside of Caen awaiting developments.
He's the Brits' greatest general since the Black Prince.  He'll have things sorted out just you wait.  Allowing the Jerries to march their entire army out of the Falaise gap was all part of the plan.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on November 06, 2009, 04:59:09 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 06, 2009, 04:31:00 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 06, 2009, 02:07:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2009, 02:06:56 PM
Been reading Beevor's D-Day battle of Normandy.  CdM would approve of the very critical look at the British army.  Apparently different fighting arms didn't like to support each other very much.  Infantry wouldn't help the engineers dig holes and engineers wouldn't pick up their rifles when people were shooting at them.  Also way to much tea drinking.   He has very high praise for the Canadians.  He made an interesting claim that 3% of the casualties suffered by the 115th infantry regiment were due to friendly fire from a Texas national guard unit who had a bad habit of shooting anything that moved.


Monty is still outside of Caen awaiting developments.
He's the Brits' greatest general since the Black Prince.  He'll have things sorted out just you wait.  Allowing the Jerries to march their entire army out of the Falaise gap was all part of the plan.

That Market Garden plan was sheer genius. XXX Corps attack along one narrow road? AWESOME.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on November 06, 2009, 05:29:26 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 06, 2009, 02:07:52 PM
Monty is still outside of Caen awaiting developments.
"Goodwood." lol
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on November 06, 2009, 05:40:48 PM
Beevor does point out that the "drop all the bombs all over the city of Caen" wasn't conductive with capturing it on the first day and speculates if Monty really did intend to capture it on the first day at all.  Or that first week.  Or that first month...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on November 06, 2009, 08:36:45 PM
Looking for a book on Hinduism and the English Civil War and the Commonwealth.  Suggestions?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 06, 2009, 09:47:52 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on November 06, 2009, 08:36:45 PM
Looking for a book on Hinduism and the English Civil War and the Commonwealth.  Suggestions?

From my Stuart thread a bit ago.

Michael Braddick God's Fury, England's Fire: A New History of the English Civil Wars

I like this one although I've not finished reading it. I think I like it because it is dense.

And then near the beginning of that thread, books were suggested from the Unhappy Charles game

http://languish.org/forums/index.php?topic=467


That's assuming though that you didn't mean a book about Hinduism and the English Civil War. :tinfoil:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 06, 2009, 10:29:21 PM
Charles I betrayed Shiva!  :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on December 09, 2009, 12:43:20 PM
Just about finished the Game of Thrones series.


*mild spoiler alert*


I am liking the series but he is a bit too consistent in that fact that usually anything that can go wrong does (except for one notable character of course).  the story has become a bit too predictable in his attempts to provide an unpredicable outcome.  So for example there was a lot of lead up to Rob going back the Freys to apologize.  But the reader knows that it will not end well and as the event comes closer it becomes more and more obvious.

But that minor problem aside, if anyone hasnt yet read the series (I may be the only one left here) I do recommend it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on December 09, 2009, 01:21:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 09, 2009, 12:43:20 PM
if anyone hasnt yet read the series (I may be the only one left here) I do recommend it.

Don't do it!  There's no way George R. R. Martin is ever going to finish this series, so you're only setting yourself up for pain.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on December 09, 2009, 02:41:14 PM
I working on that 30 years war book that was discussed here a month or so ago.  It's pretty tough going.  I suspect the author is Catholic since everything seems to be the protestants fault.  But then, that might be true.  Personally I blame the reformation for Marxism.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on December 09, 2009, 02:47:07 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 09, 2009, 02:41:14 PM
I suspect the author is Catholic since everything seems to be the protestants fault.  But then, that might be true.

No protestants = no 30 year war.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: LaCroix on December 09, 2009, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: ulmont on December 09, 2009, 01:21:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 09, 2009, 12:43:20 PM
if anyone hasnt yet read the series (I may be the only one left here) I do recommend it.

Don't do it!  There's no way George R. R. Martin is ever going to finish this series, so you're only setting yourself up for pain.
i don't see why not; he's young, fit, and healthy
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on December 09, 2009, 02:56:10 PM
Quote from: Lacroix on December 09, 2009, 02:48:45 PM
i don't see why not; he's young, fit, and healthy

He's 61 years old and fat.  The heart attack is imminent.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 09, 2009, 03:38:49 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on November 06, 2009, 08:36:45 PM
the English Civil War and the Commonwealth.  Suggestions?
Austin Woolrych's magnificent 'Britain in Revolution: 1625-1660' :mmm:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Britain-Revolution-1625-1660-Austin-Woolrych/dp/0199272689/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260390284&sr=8-1

I want this book at some point:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Noble-Revolt-Overthrow-Charles/dp/0753818787/ref=pd_sim_b_2
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 29, 2009, 12:31:01 PM
Just finished The Cheese and the Worms: The Cosmos of a Sixteenth-century Miller:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cheese-Worms-Cosmos-Sixteenth-century-Miller/dp/0801843871

Possibly the best history book I've ever read.  It's remarkable.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: MadImmortalMan on December 29, 2009, 12:33:08 PM
I just started reading Kitchen Confidential. He promises to piss off everyone in the celebrity chef/pop food community. We'll see.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 29, 2009, 02:09:19 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 29, 2009, 12:33:08 PM
I just started reading Kitchen Confidential. He promises to piss off everyone in the celebrity chef/pop food community. We'll see.
I think his writing style's a bit over the top but Bourdain's Les Halles Cookbook is very, very good :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 29, 2009, 03:25:22 PM
Started reading Game of Thrones. It's good so far. NSFW though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 02, 2010, 12:32:49 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farrtop.com%2Fphotos%2Fzeal.jpg&hash=2306ff68b773a57be1ca30a3d383a01bad327b35)

Currently reading that.  The British are some funny bastards when they go to war, especially when they don't get their way.  Choice quotes from one Major General James Pattison, about manpower issues and other such concerns :

On the lowering of standards (accepting Roman Catholics, younger and older, shorter and leaner, criminals, etc., into the Army) : "[H]ard times, indeed, and great must be the scarcity of men when the Royal Artillery is obliged to take such reptiles."

On the Irish : "[wish the Irish newcomers] again in the bogs from whence they sprang."

Lamenting over the newest batch of recruits : "[D]espair that only five of a recently arrived batch of 178 drafts and recruits had spared [me] the pain of looking at them by deserting or dying en route."

On the denied request for carbines for his troopers
(who were universally shorter than regulations called for) : "I will try how far the strength of these diminutive warriors is equal to carry muskets cut down."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on January 02, 2010, 07:49:56 PM
Reading Ondaatje's "Divisadreo". having a bit of a tough time getting into it. Moreso than any of his previous books. But I was more engaged in the last sitting. It may get better.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 04, 2010, 10:01:09 AM
Finished Game of Thrones and will start on Clash of Kings. The books are awesome. All these gallant knights and fluttering standards have me in a queer mood. I keep daydreaming about Ser Jaron coming up to me on his white charger and picking me up like so many extra pounds and riding off with me into the sunset.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josquius on January 06, 2010, 06:19:53 PM
I just read the Jumper book for some reason. Rather good despite being aimed at 16 year olds. The film really has very little to do with it.
I;m a bit dissapointed though that so many ideas I thought I'd come up with were written here 20years ago.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Drakken on January 06, 2010, 06:22:51 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.decitre.fr%2Fgi%2F67%2F9782213019567FS.gif&hash=4f76c65adb7fb58a66867fc68bc8edbad13fc1db)

Currently reading this 700-long book about the History of the Ottoman Empire, in French, bought on a whim at 80 $CAN. I've just reached the part about the fall of Constantinople. Pretty good read so far, and a nice introduction to the beginning of the Ottoman rise under Osman and Orkhan. Not a lot of historical analysis as of yet, though, although it takes its information both among Western and Oriental sources. A good introduction to the history of the Infidels until now.

As an aside, that siege is so deserving of a movie treatment one day, I'd even beg Ridley Scott to do it. I want to see Constantine XI hack through a rioting mob of Janissaries like it was Thermopyles all over again. :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on January 06, 2010, 06:31:53 PM
Quote from: Drakken on January 06, 2010, 06:22:51 PM
As an aside, that siege is so deserving of a movie treatment one day, I'd even beg Ridley Scott to do it. I want to see Constantine XI hack through a rioting mob of Janissaries like it was Thermopyles all over again. :blush:

You need to read The Fall of Constantinople by Steven Runciman (title and spelling are from memory).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 06, 2010, 06:48:42 PM
Used up some Christmas gift cardage to buy "Little Known Wars of Great and Lasting Impact" by Alan Axelrod and 7 novels by Jane Austen.  The first looks a tiny bit cartoonish, more a collection of Strategy & Tactics articles than a book, but it does cover a lot of wars I know zilch about.  The 7 novels by Austen are in a fancy leather bound edition that clearly bombed during the Christmas season and the bookstore was dumping for $20.  Also put an order in for The Good Soldier Whatshisname.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 07, 2010, 01:24:27 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 06, 2010, 06:48:42 PM
Used up some Christmas gift cardage to buy "Little Known Wars of Great and Lasting Impact" by Alan Axelrod and 7 novels by Jane Austen.  The first looks a tiny bit cartoonish, more a collection of Strategy & Tactics articles than a book, but it does cover a lot of wars I know zilch about. 
Which wars does it cover?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 07, 2010, 03:44:57 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 07, 2010, 01:24:27 AM
Which wars does it cover?
I've already read through Queen Boudicca's revolt, the German peasant revolt of the 16th century, the Bar Kochba revolt, skipped the Genpei war (too confusing), currently reading about the Boyar's revolt.  Maybe 20 all told.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 07, 2010, 06:34:52 AM
While browsing yesterday I came across a new biography of Joe McCarthy (presumably a favorable one).  On the cover was a blurb from Ann Coulter: "the best book since the bible." :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Lettow77 on January 07, 2010, 08:46:33 AM
Russia, 1762-1825: military power, the state, and the people
and Farm to Factory: A Reinterpretation of the Soviet Industrial Revolution

Dry stuff, and I fear the latter is written by a crypto-communist or at the very least someone soft on the reds, but its a subject I need to expand my knowledge of.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 07, 2010, 10:52:53 AM
Deadly Quicksilver Lies by Glen Cook. Rather mediocre Garrett mystery.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on January 07, 2010, 11:22:12 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 07, 2010, 10:52:53 AM
Deadly Quicksilver Lies by Glen Cook. Rather mediocre Garrett mystery.

Yeah, that series is played out.  I like his "Instrumentalities of the Night" recent series, though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 07, 2010, 11:34:55 AM
Quote from: ulmont on January 07, 2010, 11:22:12 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 07, 2010, 10:52:53 AM
Deadly Quicksilver Lies by Glen Cook. Rather mediocre Garrett mystery.

Yeah, that series is played out.  I like his "Instrumentalities of the Night" recent series, though.

That is his one series I just can't get into.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Faeelin on January 07, 2010, 11:48:02 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on January 07, 2010, 08:46:33 AM
and Farm to Factory: A Reinterpretation of the Soviet Industrial Revolution

Dry stuff, and I fear the latter is written by a crypto-communist or at the very least someone soft on the reds, but its a subject I need to expand my knowledge of.

:lol:

The Thirty Years War: Europe's Tragedy
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 07, 2010, 03:33:33 PM
I finally ordered Brin's Uplift Trilogy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 10, 2010, 08:23:16 PM
India After Gandhi:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/India-After-Gandhi-History-Democracy/dp/0230016545
A very good book though difficult because so much of post-Independence Indian history is quite alien to me, so I kept on forgetting which person was which and which party was which and so on.  So it involved flicking back a fair few points to re-acquaint myself.  Though strongly recommended.

It's also whet my appetite.  Does anyone know if there's a good English language history of Indira Gandhi?  I don't really want a biography that focuses too much on her but a history of her within her time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 11, 2010, 03:53:37 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on January 07, 2010, 11:48:02 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on January 07, 2010, 08:46:33 AM
and Farm to Factory: A Reinterpretation of the Soviet Industrial Revolution

Dry stuff, and I fear the latter is written by a crypto-communist or at the very least someone soft on the reds, but its a subject I need to expand my knowledge of.

:lol:

The Thirty Years War: Europe's Tragedy

I tried to slog through that one.  Man that's fucking dry.  You have so many people operating in a government that nobody actually understands how it works.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 11, 2010, 09:28:38 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 07, 2010, 10:52:53 AM
Deadly Quicksilver Lies by Glen Cook. Rather mediocre Garrett mystery.

Petty Pewter Gods by the same guy. Everybody's favorite internet octopus god gets mentioned.

A bit better than the last book in the series.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: syk on January 11, 2010, 10:45:45 AM
Read that first Witcher book. It was entertaining.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 11, 2010, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: syk on January 11, 2010, 10:45:45 AM
Read that first Witcher book. It was entertaining.

Start reading this:
http://www.imagecomics.com/iconline.php?title=walking_dead_001&page=cover
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: syk on January 11, 2010, 11:04:43 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 11, 2010, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: syk on January 11, 2010, 10:45:45 AM
Read that first Witcher book. It was entertaining.

Start reading this:
http://www.imagecomics.com/iconline.php?title=walking_dead_001&page=cover
I might do that. The reviews were good. But first I have the 2nd Witcher book and Frank Schätzing's "Der Schwarm" on my list.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on January 11, 2010, 01:39:45 PM
Haven't finished it, but I've been reading the newest Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy Book.

It's interesting.  It's almost a 'greatest hits' book, since all kinds of characters from the past are making an appearance.  Zaphod Beeblebrox and the Heart of Gold for one.  Wowbanger the Infinitely Prolonged has become a major character (with a surprisingly good explanation on why he's trying to insult the entire universe).

But there was a fun scene where 'everyone's favourite octopus god' is nervously interviewing to be the new chief diety of a new human colony.   :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on January 11, 2010, 01:40:56 PM
Finished Ondaatje's "Divisadero". Well written but not as engaging as any of his earlier books that I've read.

Started John Scalzi's sequel to Old Man's War - "Ghost Brigades" also reading coffee table books I got used yesterday: "Pirates an Illustrated History" (bare bones stuff, not much new, but well presented, fun pictures, drawings.) and a pamphlet/magazine called "Raincoast Chronicles" that has interesting histories of local Native tribes and frontier living in the Vancouver region. Cool piece on local petroglyphs and others I haven't got to including Rum Running back in Prohibition era.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Lettow77 on January 11, 2010, 01:41:42 PM
 Farm to Factory: a new look at soviet industrialisation.

Part of my ongoing close scrutiny at Russia and Communism. The author I think may be slightly pink himself, but it is still enlightening.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on January 12, 2010, 11:05:56 AM
Can anybody recommend a good book or two on the Russian Civil War?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: syk on January 12, 2010, 11:12:43 AM
Quote from: Barrister on January 11, 2010, 01:39:45 PM
Haven't finished it, but I've been reading the newest Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy Book.

It's interesting.  It's almost a 'greatest hits' book, since all kinds of characters from the past are making an appearance.  Zaphod Beeblebrox and the Heart of Gold for one.  Wowbanger the Infinitely Prolonged has become a major character (with a surprisingly good explanation on why he's trying to insult the entire universe).

But there was a fun scene where 'everyone's favourite octopus god' is nervously interviewing to be the new chief diety of a new human colony.   :lol:
How does the writing style compare to Adams' original works?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2010, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: ulmont on January 12, 2010, 11:05:56 AM
Can anybody recommend a good book or two on the Russian Civil War?
Red Victory.  Forgot the author.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on January 12, 2010, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2010, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: ulmont on January 12, 2010, 11:05:56 AM
Can anybody recommend a good book or two on the Russian Civil War?
Red Victory.  Forgot the author.

W. Bruce Lincoln.  Will have to contact the library as it seems unavailable in Kindle edition.

...but it is at the library, it turns out.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 12, 2010, 06:19:34 PM
Quote from: ulmont on January 12, 2010, 02:08:10 PM
W. Bruce Lincoln.  Will have to contact the library as it seems unavailable in Kindle edition.

...but it is at the library, it turns out.

That one won't actually tell you much about the RCW, I found.  I prefer Evan Mawdsley's work "The Russian Civil War" to it.  If you want something more fun to read, I suggest "The White Generals" by Richard Luckett.  It's older, but there's a lot more actual information since it documents the individuals rather than the entirety.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2010, 06:21:19 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 12, 2010, 06:19:34 PM
That one won't actually tell you much about the RCW, I found.
?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pat on January 12, 2010, 06:27:28 PM
Quote from: ulmont on January 12, 2010, 11:05:56 AM
Can anybody recommend a good book or two on the Russian Civil War?


I found this to be a very good read, though it's about Ungern-Sternberg in specific and not about the civil war in general:

http://www.amazon.com/Bloody-White-Baron-Extraordinary-Nobleman/dp/0465014488/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263338622&sr=8-1
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on January 12, 2010, 06:44:43 PM
Quote from: Pat on January 12, 2010, 06:27:28 PM
I found this to be a very good read, though it's about Ungern-Sternberg in specific and not about the civil war in general:

http://www.amazon.com/Bloody-White-Baron-Extraordinary-Nobleman/dp/0465014488/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263338622&sr=8-1

Sweet, for Kindle.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on January 12, 2010, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 12, 2010, 06:19:34 PM
That one won't actually tell you much about the RCW, I found.  I prefer Evan Mawdsley's work "The Russian Civil War" to it.  If you want something more fun to read, I suggest "The White Generals" by Richard Luckett.  It's older, but there's a lot more actual information since it documents the individuals rather than the entirety.

Thanks.  A shame more of these aren't available electronically.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on January 12, 2010, 06:48:02 PM
Quote from: syk on January 12, 2010, 11:12:43 AM
Quote from: Barrister on January 11, 2010, 01:39:45 PM
Haven't finished it, but I've been reading the newest Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy Book.

It's interesting.  It's almost a 'greatest hits' book, since all kinds of characters from the past are making an appearance.  Zaphod Beeblebrox and the Heart of Gold for one.  Wowbanger the Infinitely Prolonged has become a major character (with a surprisingly good explanation on why he's trying to insult the entire universe).

But there was a fun scene where 'everyone's favourite octopus god' is nervously interviewing to be the new chief diety of a new human colony.   :lol:
How does the writing style compare to Adams' original works?

It's close.  I'm just not sure if it's merely copying.  As I said he's going over a lot of the same ground.  It's probably much closer in writing style to the first book or two, with numerous asides about what the Guide says about this subject or that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 12, 2010, 06:49:53 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2010, 06:21:19 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 12, 2010, 06:19:34 PM
That one won't actually tell you much about the RCW, I found.
?

As far as its self-proclaimed "A history of the Russian Civil War" subtitle goes, I found it to be, well, half the truth.  Half, specifically because it was primarily focused on the internal machinations of Lenin and the Bolsheviks along with a heaping helping of social and political information.  It was not at all a military history of the conflict and I recall reading very, very little about the White side of things in the tome except where the Reds gave their variegated opinions about the White movements.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2010, 06:54:41 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 12, 2010, 06:49:53 PM
As far as its self-proclaimed "A history of the Russian Civil War" subtitle goes, I found it to be, well, half the truth.  Half, specifically because it was primarily focused on the internal machinations of Lenin and the Bolsheviks along with a heaping helping of social and political information.  It was not at all a military history of the conflict and I recall reading very, very little about the White side of things in the tome except where the Reds gave their variegated opinions about the White movements.
That sounds *nothing* like the book I have in mind.  You sure we're talking about the same book?  Cover is a poster illustration of Red Guard?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 12, 2010, 06:56:19 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.amazon.com%2Fimages%2FP%2F0306809095.01._SX140_SY225_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg&hash=65dcf5abdb3cb208989cf7e8da79c1733b896eb6)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 12, 2010, 07:01:20 PM
44 cent used copy...ordered. If it sucks, I will jam its proletariat up somebody's ass.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2010, 07:02:06 PM
OK, that's not it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 12, 2010, 07:03:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2010, 07:02:06 PM
OK, that's not it.

Yeah, the book's pretty shitty, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pedrito on January 13, 2010, 04:00:32 AM
Quote from: ulmont on January 12, 2010, 06:44:43 PM
Quote from: Pat on January 12, 2010, 06:27:28 PM
I found this to be a very good read, though it's about Ungern-Sternberg in specific and not about the civil war in general:

http://www.amazon.com/Bloody-White-Baron-Extraordinary-Nobleman/dp/0465014488/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263338622&sr=8-1

Sweet, for Kindle.
about Ungern-Sternberg, the Kindle edition of Ossendowski's Beasts, Men and Gods, of which I've read very good reviews, is only $5.74  :w00t:

L.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on January 13, 2010, 01:19:27 PM
Scalzi's Ghost Brigades is really really good, he finds ways to scald current pop culture in this future world, in very clever ways. Hard SF that's also LOL funny FTW!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Alatriste on January 14, 2010, 01:51:28 AM
I'm rereading 'Instrument of War: The Austrian Army in the Seven Years War Vol. I' by Christopher Duffy. Impressive, as all Duffy's works. One of these days I'm going to buy 'By Force of Arms' (The Austrian Army in the Seven Years War, Vol II) in Amazon, since after one year waiting I despair of ever finding it in a bookshop.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 21, 2010, 05:38:14 PM
The rather enjoyable but not terribly good 'Can you forgive her?'  The start of Trollope's Palliser series.  I found 'The Warden' to be the weakest of the Barsetshire books so I'm looking forward to the rest of the novels.

Not immediately though.  I'm planning some long-overdue Katzanakis time and then I'm going to enjoy The Great Jews.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 21, 2010, 06:13:39 PM
Recently read:
Mantel's Wolf Hall and DeLillo's Underworld
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 21, 2010, 06:46:51 PM
Currently reading Hitler's Empire: How the Nazis Ruled Europe by Mark Mazower. Very interesting information on Nazi mismanagement, and their future plans had they succeeded. How Hitler & Co. somehow never figured out that waging a war of racial extermination at the same time as one of unlimited territorial aggrandizement does. not. make. sense. (or, where shall we put the Poles, and where shall we conjur up another 100 million Germans?) 

The horrifying implications of Nazi logic are stated to be that the Jews were just the beginning of the Nazi ambitions for genocide; pretty clearly (according to the authour, who makes a good case), certain elements among the Nazis had the same fate in store for lots of other disfavoured nationalities, once the war was won.

As with everything Nazi, there seemed to have been no one clear plan; Hitler seemed to relish setting one faction off against another. Yet he was very consistent in one thing: all arrangements with others were to benefit 'Germans' only (though the question of just how exclusive a title "German" is seems to have been a matter of debate). Again, nationalist exclusivity makes a poor basis for imperial pretentions, particularly if one is obsessed with avoiding "race mixing". The logical outcome of holding these two notions (expansion and absolute exclusivity) simultaneously, is to invade everywhere and kill everyone not "German" or at least of an acceptably german-like ancestry as in western Europe ... which seems, within the confines of Europe, to have been more or less the long-range plan held by Hitler.     
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on January 21, 2010, 06:53:25 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 21, 2010, 06:46:51 PM
The horrifying implications of Nazi logic are stated to be that the Jews were just the beginning of the Nazi ambitions for genocide; pretty clearly (according to the authour, who makes a good case), certain elements among the Nazis had the same fate in store for lots of other disfavoured nationalities, once the war was won.

I thought it was pretty well accepted that the Slavs were going to be next after the Jews?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 21, 2010, 07:00:56 PM
Quote from: ulmont on January 21, 2010, 06:53:25 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 21, 2010, 06:46:51 PM
The horrifying implications of Nazi logic are stated to be that the Jews were just the beginning of the Nazi ambitions for genocide; pretty clearly (according to the authour, who makes a good case), certain elements among the Nazis had the same fate in store for lots of other disfavoured nationalities, once the war was won.

I thought it was pretty well accepted that the Slavs were going to be next after the Jews?

I don't think there was really any one plan. Different factions of the Nazi hierarchy had different, often mutually contradictory, plans. Many wanted to run basically feudal estates with slavic serfs, carefully "culled" like spartan helots to ensure ignorance and docility. Others thought that this would inevitably lead to "race mixing" and wanted to essentially "deport" the slavs en mass (using exactly the same terms previously used for the Jews - 'deportation' being pretty clearly a euphemism for mass executions). The lands the slavs lived on would then be settled by German farmer-soldiers.

Problem was, where were they going to get the Germans from?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 21, 2010, 07:17:10 PM
Hitler Triumphant by a bunch of people. Reads like somebody's wargame session. In other words, mostly gamey bullshit.

LOLZ, I DROP STUDENT ON BAKU! *rolls dice* DE! YOU LOSE YOUR OIL.

Cost: 2 bucks. May have overpaid.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on January 21, 2010, 11:51:37 PM
I really don't understand what the Germans had against Slavs though.  Were the Balts in the same boat?  The Slavic, Baltic and Germanic people have way more in common than they do differences, from a genetic, cultural or linguistic standpoint.  Heck, they even look a lot alike; Hitler could have easily passed for Czech (and iirc his name is of Czech or other West-Slavic origin), so could most of the German higher-ups. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 22, 2010, 12:31:14 AM
I just finished The Undercover Economist - it's a pretty good book that's a nice intro to economics. Recommended.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 22, 2010, 02:01:31 AM
Half way through Brin's Sundiver. They've just encountered the Solarians and watched an old Magnetovore give birth to little ones.

Good read so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 22, 2010, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 21, 2010, 11:51:37 PM
I really don't understand what the Germans had against Slavs though.  Were the Balts in the same boat?  The Slavic, Baltic and Germanic people have way more in common than they do differences, from a genetic, cultural or linguistic standpoint.  Heck, they even look a lot alike; Hitler could have easily passed for Czech (and iirc his name is of Czech or other West-Slavic origin), so could most of the German higher-ups.

Why would you assume that Nazi racial theory would have any coherent scientific or anthropological basis?  Its all nonsense on stilts and a fool's errand to try to make sense of any it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 22, 2010, 10:10:41 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 21, 2010, 11:51:37 PM
I really don't understand what the Germans had against Slavs though.  Were the Balts in the same boat?  The Slavic, Baltic and Germanic people have way more in common than they do differences, from a genetic, cultural or linguistic standpoint.  Heck, they even look a lot alike; Hitler could have easily passed for Czech (and iirc his name is of Czech or other West-Slavic origin), so could most of the German higher-ups.

I don't think there has to be any "reason" to understand. The Nazis themselves, although the killed millions in pursuit of "scientific racism", had no better idea than anyone else what actually constituted a "German" in the first place, and for all their pseudo-scientific "race measurements" did not reach any agreement even among themselves as to whether being "German" was a matter of genetics, or culture, or alleigance, or what.

Indeed, the more one studies the Nazis, the more one sees that there was really no coherence at all in their plans or theories. In a really deep sense, they were nuts - not because they were so radically evil (though they were), but because that evil was exercised in pursuit of a set of plans that were arbitrary and self-contradictory in the extreme, and in the most basic of ways made no sense.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 22, 2010, 10:25:41 AM
I'm currently reading a really good book. It's an absurdist humour book, in the vein of Good Soldier Svejk. It's called City of  Thieves and takes place in Leningrad during the seige of 1941. Amidst all the starvation and death, two petty criminals (One, a deserter, the other a teenage boy who stayed out after curfew) are given a reprieve by the NKVD colonel. Instead of summary execution, they're given four days to find a dozen eggs, so the colonel's wife can bake a cake for her daughter's wedding.
It's really good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 22, 2010, 02:30:28 PM
Reading Procopius's History of the Wars.  It is the single most awesome book in the entire history of awesome.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 22, 2010, 03:03:02 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 22, 2010, 02:30:28 PM
Reading Procopius's History of the Wars.  It is the single most awesome book in the entire history of awesome.

I'd have thought you'd have preferred his Secret History.

For one, it's reminiscent of the doings of your beloved Detroit politicians.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 22, 2010, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 22, 2010, 03:03:02 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 22, 2010, 02:30:28 PM
Reading Procopius's History of the Wars.  It is the single most awesome book in the entire history of awesome.

I'd have thought you'd have preferred his Secret History.

For one, it's reminiscent of the doings of your beloved Detroit politicians.  :D

That's next on the list.   :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 23, 2010, 04:38:02 AM
I got a question:

Can anyone recommend some good and reasonably modern Fantasy and/or Military SF? I am currently reading the Song of Ice and Fire books, one of the few things in these genres that I've read that's written after 1985.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 23, 2010, 08:01:56 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 21, 2010, 06:13:39 PM
DeLillo's Underworld
I really enjoyed that novel.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2010, 01:28:53 PM
Picked up The Good Soldier Svejk and The Candy Bombers, about the Berlin airlift.  After which I ate A GODDAMN CHICKEN SANDWICH.

Fun fact from The Candy Bombers: in July 45 92% of infants born in Berlin hospitals did not live past 10 days.  Couple ways to parse that I suppose.  Infanticide by rape victims?  Only problem births took place in hospitals?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Alatriste on January 23, 2010, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2010, 01:28:53 PM
Picked up The Good Soldier Svejk and The Candy Bombers, about the Berlin airlift.  After which I ate A GODDAMN CHICKEN SANDWICH.

Fun fact from The Candy Bombers: in July 45 92% of infants born in Berlin hospitals did not live past 10 days.  Couple ways to parse that I suppose.  Infanticide by rape victims?  Only problem births took place in hospitals?

I hate to tell you the truth, but the story about the Fuhrer ordering women to give birth in nine weeks is a myth. A baby born in July 45 was conceived in October 44...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2010, 03:09:01 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on January 23, 2010, 02:48:33 PM
I hate to tell you the truth, but the story about the Fuhrer ordering women to give birth in nine weeks is a myth. A baby born in July 45 was conceived in October 44...
THAT GODDAMN SANDWICH MADE ME A RETARD.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 23, 2010, 03:11:56 PM
The sandwich is a lie.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2010, 03:35:34 PM
Another fun fact from Candy Bombers: UN says a working male needs 2,650 calories a day.  During the Great Depression Americans consumed an average of 3,260 calories a day.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 23, 2010, 03:41:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2010, 03:35:34 PM
Another fun fact from Candy Bombers: UN says a working male needs 2,650 calories a day.  During the Great Depression Americans consumed an average of 3,260 calories a day.


Piggish americans.  :mad:

Another useless trivia bit. American Gedunk vessels could produce 5,000 gallons of ice cream an hour during WWII.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on January 23, 2010, 03:56:31 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 23, 2010, 04:38:02 AM
I got a question:

Can anyone recommend some good and reasonably modern Fantasy and/or Military SF? I am currently reading the Song of Ice and Fire books, one of the few things in these genres that I've read that's written after 1985.

John Scalzi's "Old Man's War" and it's sequels. fast reading galaxy spanning SF with a touch more than a hint of SS Troopers era Heinlein.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 23, 2010, 04:44:40 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2010, 03:35:34 PM
Another fun fact from Candy Bombers: UN says a working male needs 2,650 calories a day.  During the Great Depression Americans consumed an average of 3,260 calories a day.
During the war the ration for a man was around 3000 a day, I thought that was the UN recommendation too :mellow:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on January 23, 2010, 06:30:22 PM
The Magus.  I love it, but making very slow progress. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Cecil on January 23, 2010, 06:39:41 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 23, 2010, 04:44:40 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2010, 03:35:34 PM
Another fun fact from Candy Bombers: UN says a working male needs 2,650 calories a day.  During the Great Depression Americans consumed an average of 3,260 calories a day.
During the war the ration for a man was around 3000 a day, I thought that was the UN recommendation too :mellow:

During the depression and the war I think most ppl didnt spend all day long sitting on their fat asses. :lol:. Work is a lot more sedentary today.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 23, 2010, 06:49:49 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on January 23, 2010, 03:56:31 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 23, 2010, 04:38:02 AM
I got a question:

Can anyone recommend some good and reasonably modern Fantasy and/or Military SF? I am currently reading the Song of Ice and Fire books, one of the few things in these genres that I've read that's written after 1985.

John Scalzi's "Old Man's War" and it's sequels. fast reading galaxy spanning SF with a touch more than a hint of SS Troopers era Heinlein.

ty will check it out
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 23, 2010, 07:25:49 PM
For Fantasy, the Joe Abercrombie books are pretty good. The blade itself is the first one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 23, 2010, 11:03:00 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 21, 2010, 07:00:56 PM
Quote from: ulmont on January 21, 2010, 06:53:25 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 21, 2010, 06:46:51 PM
The horrifying implications of Nazi logic are stated to be that the Jews were just the beginning of the Nazi ambitions for genocide; pretty clearly (according to the authour, who makes a good case), certain elements among the Nazis had the same fate in store for lots of other disfavoured nationalities, once the war was won.

I thought it was pretty well accepted that the Slavs were going to be next after the Jews?

I don't think there was really any one plan. Different factions of the Nazi hierarchy had different, often mutually contradictory, plans. Many wanted to run basically feudal estates with slavic serfs, carefully "culled" like spartan helots to ensure ignorance and docility. Others thought that this would inevitably lead to "race mixing" and wanted to essentially "deport" the slavs en mass (using exactly the same terms previously used for the Jews - 'deportation' being pretty clearly a euphemism for mass executions). The lands the slavs lived on would then be settled by German farmer-soldiers.

Problem was, where were they going to get the Germans from?

Wasn't the birth rate of Nazi Germany really high for a modern society, even for it's time?

After all the impression I had was they weren't going to kill the Slavs all at once. 30-50 million would be killed over the next 40 years. It would be rolling genocide followed by settlers.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 23, 2010, 11:05:57 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 23, 2010, 04:38:02 AM
I got a question:

Can anyone recommend some good and reasonably modern Fantasy and/or Military SF? I am currently reading the Song of Ice and Fire books, one of the few things in these genres that I've read that's written after 1985.
Mistborn by Sanderson
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 24, 2010, 12:36:23 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 23, 2010, 11:03:00 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 21, 2010, 07:00:56 PM
Quote from: ulmont on January 21, 2010, 06:53:25 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 21, 2010, 06:46:51 PM
The horrifying implications of Nazi logic are stated to be that the Jews were just the beginning of the Nazi ambitions for genocide; pretty clearly (according to the authour, who makes a good case), certain elements among the Nazis had the same fate in store for lots of other disfavoured nationalities, once the war was won.

I thought it was pretty well accepted that the Slavs were going to be next after the Jews?

I don't think there was really any one plan. Different factions of the Nazi hierarchy had different, often mutually contradictory, plans. Many wanted to run basically feudal estates with slavic serfs, carefully "culled" like spartan helots to ensure ignorance and docility. Others thought that this would inevitably lead to "race mixing" and wanted to essentially "deport" the slavs en mass (using exactly the same terms previously used for the Jews - 'deportation' being pretty clearly a euphemism for mass executions). The lands the slavs lived on would then be settled by German farmer-soldiers.

Problem was, where were they going to get the Germans from?

Wasn't the birth rate of Nazi Germany really high for a modern society, even for it's time?

After all the impression I had was they weren't going to kill the Slavs all at once. 30-50 million would be killed over the next 40 years. It would be rolling genocide followed by settlers.

Yeah, they gave medals out for mothers who had the most children and stuff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 24, 2010, 11:47:40 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 23, 2010, 07:25:49 PM
For Fantasy, the Joe Abercrombie books are pretty good. The blade itself is the first one.

I second this; I actually prefer Abercrombie to Martin. For one, he finishes his series.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 24, 2010, 12:10:27 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 23, 2010, 11:03:00 PM
Wasn't the birth rate of Nazi Germany really high for a modern society, even for it's time?

After all the impression I had was they weren't going to kill the Slavs all at once. 30-50 million would be killed over the next 40 years. It would be rolling genocide followed by settlers.

That was one of the various plans mooted, certainly. It was not the only one, however. It competed with the notion of ruling estates filled with labouring helots, or even with forming puppet ethnic states ruled less directly by Nazis (the latter was never a favorite of the Nazi high-ups themselves; it was briefly discussed at the beginning of the Nazi conquest, some gestures were made in that direction during the war; but, never seriously entertained by Hitler or the SS, it basically fell out of favour when the Nazis appeared to be winning - only to be revived when they started to lose. Of course by that time, no-one took it seriously as anything more than providing cannon fodder). 

The fact remained that during the war itself, Germany faced serious labour shortages (and indeed much of the resistance to Nazi rule was stirred up by attempts to round up slave labour for use inside Germany itself).

The notion that a gigantic expanded German empire could be filled with ethnic Germans was always pure fantasy, even on a 40 year time-frame. Even before the war, Germany was dependant on low-cost immigrant labour for certain tasks (as a greatly shrunken Germany was after the war and indeed to this day - see the current controversy over immigrant labouring "turks" and "guest workers" etc.).

No amount of handing out metals for motherhood would change this. The ideal of German smallholders living on lands rendered free of non-Germans in an eastern empire stretching over all of what is now Poland, Ukraine and the Western half of Russia was never going to be realized in any sort of reality; and the more territory Germany took, the less likely it was. 

The fact remains that the war was begun on a wholly false premise - that the teeming masses of Germany needed "living space". In fact, no such teeming masses existed, let alone in sufficient numbers to fill eastern Europe. It was pure Nazi wishful thinking. The notion that the Nazis could forcibly breed enough Germans to artificially create the required 'masses' lacks credibilty, to say the least. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on January 24, 2010, 06:31:20 PM
I think "living space" means something a bit more complicated than that, though.  Germany is a small country, and when compared to the USSR and the USA it is naturally poor in resources.  I think part of what Hitler and the Nazis intended was not just (literally) playing Cowboys and Indians with the Slavs, but putting all of Russia's natural resources to use in German industry.  Interestingly, the Reich had something similar in mind after Brest-Litovsk; in some sense Hitler's policy was a radical interpretation of that. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on January 24, 2010, 06:36:35 PM
That said, I think a hostile conquest and settlement of all of European Russia/Ukraine/Belarus was always fantasy.  The land is alternatively swampy and heavily forested, and the people are already tough as shit.  Think Vietnam, only make it a dozen times larger. 

EDIT: This makes Germany's manpower problem all the more pressing; Germany would have lost a ton of men in the push to the Urals, the invasion of Britain and setting up some kind of Cold War with the US, as they never had the ability to mount an invasion with the remnants of the British Fleet and the American Fleet between North America and Europe.  They just would not have had the manpower to mount a constant war in the Urals or wherever they decided to stop in the invasion of Russia while simultaneously establishing colonies in Partisan-heavy areas.  Even if they did something crazy like institute polygamy or even allow German men to marry "Aryanized" Slavs, it would have been impossible. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josquius on January 24, 2010, 08:51:25 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 21, 2010, 11:51:37 PM
I really don't understand what the Germans had against Slavs though.  Were the Balts in the same boat?  The Slavic, Baltic and Germanic people have way more in common than they do differences, from a genetic, cultural or linguistic standpoint.  Heck, they even look a lot alike; Hitler could have easily passed for Czech (and iirc his name is of Czech or other West-Slavic origin), so could most of the German higher-ups. 
Wasn't the excuse that the slavs had stolen historic/rightful Germanic lands?
They're a pretty common sense anyway, what with Poland owning lands that were German just a decade or two back and them being all there is to the east.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 25, 2010, 09:45:13 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 24, 2010, 06:31:20 PM
I think "living space" means something a bit more complicated than that, though.  Germany is a small country, and when compared to the USSR and the USA it is naturally poor in resources.  I think part of what Hitler and the Nazis intended was not just (literally) playing Cowboys and Indians with the Slavs, but putting all of Russia's natural resources to use in German industry.  Interestingly, the Reich had something similar in mind after Brest-Litovsk; in some sense Hitler's policy was a radical interpretation of that.

Hitler certainly had a drive towards ecomonic autarky, but that was never his sole motivation. In point of fact, Hitler really *did* want to play cowboys and indians with the Slavs - quite literally; the fate of the Indians of North America was, allegedly, a common refrain with him. He took comfort in the fact that the Americans still saw themselves and were seen by others as the "good guys" even after slaughtering Indians to make way for their civilization. He thought that the Germans could (and should) pull the same trick with Slavs.

With Hitler, it was always a mistake to try to intertpret his utterances as not meaning literally what he said, because what he was saying was nuts. Many contemporaries made this mistake and in many cases, paid for it with their lives.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 26, 2010, 04:26:57 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 22, 2010, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 22, 2010, 03:03:02 PM

I'd have thought you'd have preferred his Secret History.

For one, it's reminiscent of the doings of your beloved Detroit politicians.  :D

That's next on the list.   :)

Well that was entertaining, but it reminded more of The Weekly Midnight Star than The Detroit Free Press.  I hope the part about Theodora performing in shows in which geese ate grain off her nude body is true.

Next up:  Gildas's Ruin of Britain
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2010, 04:46:46 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 23, 2010, 11:03:00 PM
Wasn't the birth rate of Nazi Germany really high for a modern society, even for it's time?

Not at all.  Birth rates in Germany declined precipitously after WWI; the Nazi pro-natal programs stabilized the collapse, but that is about it.

Malthus is correct that the Nazi settlement policy was a triumph of wacky ideological excess over reality, and ended up being compromised when the exigencies of carrying out a globla war forced reality to the forefront.  Both the helot and the extermination models were considered, and the precedent of the American frontier did seem to have a strange impact on Hitler's mind.  Neither of those models was remotely feasible in any conceivable time frame, at all.

The truth was that Germany in the 30s was is some ways still a backward country, with over 1/4 of the population still working in argriculture, most smallholders using rudimentary techniques.  Germany had too many farmers, not too few; the problem in the agricultural sector was not so much a shortage of farmland as a lack of capital, knowhow, techology and technique among the vast bulk of smallholders.  But Nazi ideology glorified the "Volkisch" virtues of these simple peasant types and rather than pursue the logical policy -- encourage consolidation of plots, transitioning displaced smallholders to industry and encourage techical development in the agrarian sector - they concocted a fantasy scenario of pure race German farmers establishing communal "marks" deep in the Ukranian breadbasket, lording over a remnant of enserfed locals like neo-carolingian knights.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 27, 2010, 03:29:51 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 26, 2010, 04:26:57 PM

Well that was entertaining, but it reminded more of The Weekly Midnight Star than The Detroit Free Press.  I hope the part about Theodora performing in shows in which geese ate grain off her nude body is true.

Next up:  Gildas's Ruin of Britain

About what I expected from a dark ages sermon; though there were some intersting glimpses of (what were then) current events. 

Next up: The Kojiki.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 27, 2010, 07:55:14 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 27, 2010, 03:29:51 PM
Next up: The Kojiki.

I have the turn of the century translation available on Gutenberg.  The author translated all the smutty parts into Latin.  I should have studied Latin better since the text reads like "God and Goddess meet and then LATIN LATIN LATIN and the child was born.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 27, 2010, 08:22:55 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2010, 04:46:46 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 23, 2010, 11:03:00 PM
Wasn't the birth rate of Nazi Germany really high for a modern society, even for it's time?

Not at all.  Birth rates in Germany declined precipitously after WWI; the Nazi pro-natal programs stabilized the collapse, but that is about it.

If they had won though, wouldn't things have changed. With all those indoctrinated Hitler youth coming of age, wouldn't the child bearing population be willing to have more children.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on January 27, 2010, 08:58:38 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 27, 2010, 08:22:55 PM
If they had won though, wouldn't things have changed. With all those indoctrinated Hitler youth coming of age, wouldn't the child bearing population be willing to have more children.
That's hard to say without knowing more about a prospective postwar German economy.  Given that the German ideal seems to be to exterminate or enslave the population of Eastern Europe and replace them with German settlers, I'm not sure where the economic incentive to breed in large numbers would come from.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: barkdreg on January 28, 2010, 04:57:08 AM
Hitler's Empire. Nazi Rule in Occupied Europe
by Mark Mazower.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2010, 05:05:20 AM
Quote from: Neil on January 27, 2010, 08:58:38 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 27, 2010, 08:22:55 PM
If they had won though, wouldn't things have changed. With all those indoctrinated Hitler youth coming of age, wouldn't the child bearing population be willing to have more children.
That's hard to say without knowing more about a prospective postwar German economy.  Given that the German ideal seems to be to exterminate or enslave the population of Eastern Europe and replace them with German settlers, I'm not sure where the economic incentive to breed in large numbers would come from.
Does there need to be a real economic incentive? As long as the Nazi's wacked out ideology says so and they successfully indoctrinate the people it will be done.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 28, 2010, 09:01:12 AM
Reading the Red Victory by Lincoln. Enjoyable.

<----- My hero.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 28, 2010, 09:22:15 AM
Quote from: barkdreg on January 28, 2010, 04:57:08 AM
Hitler's Empire. Nazi Rule in Occupied Europe
by Mark Mazower.

Heh, we've been discussing that for the last couple of pages ...  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 28, 2010, 09:30:27 AM
Slugging through The Candy Bombers.  It's not terribly well written and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

But I have learned what a flaming appeaser Henry Wallace was.  I had thought he was just sort of the slave of Big Labor type of New Deal Democrat.  Also interesting to see George McGovern and Hubert Humphrey showing up in the Wallace camp.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 28, 2010, 10:01:14 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 28, 2010, 09:01:12 AM
Reading the Red Victory by Lincoln. Enjoyable.

<----- My hero.
Sequel to Through War's Dark Passage?  I wasn't aware he had done another book.  Must get that one as well; the earlier ones are brilliant.

To Berk:  finally got around to Shattered Sword.  Got through all the planning discussions.  Interesting book, as you promised.  I am kinda surprised, though, that the authors are so far off in their knowledge of US strategy before the war, and the early operations of the US Navy in the Pacific.  They claim, for instance, that the US Asiatic Fleet was "destroyed."  Asiatic fleet lost 4 of 45 warships and 15 of 23 patrol and auxiliary ships.  That's not "destruction."

Their stuff on the Japanese, though, is gold.  There isn't a lot new on the information side if one has read H.P. Wilmott, but they have a lot more analysis than Wilmott had, and that is really what is more important.

Thanks for the steer.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 28, 2010, 10:06:54 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 28, 2010, 10:01:14 AM
To Berk:  finally got around to Shattered Sword.  Got through all the planning discussions.  Interesting book, as you promised.  I am kinda surprised, though, that the authors are so far off in their knowledge of US strategy before the war, and the early operations of the US Navy in the Pacific.  They claim, for instance, that the US Asiatic Fleet was "destroyed."  Asiatic fleet lost 4 of 45 warships and 15 of 23 patrol and auxiliary ships.  That's not "destruction."

Their stuff on the Japanese, though, is gold.  There isn't a lot new on the information side if one has read H.P. Wilmott, but they have a lot more analysis than Wilmott had, and that is really what is more important.

Thanks for the steer.

I looked at Shattered Sword as well, found it a shade too advanced and technical for my level of knowledge. Maybe I'll give it another go.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 28, 2010, 10:21:27 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 28, 2010, 10:01:14 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 28, 2010, 09:01:12 AM
Reading the Red Victory by Lincoln. Enjoyable.

<----- My hero.
Sequel to Through War's Dark Passage?  I wasn't aware he had done another book.  Must get that one as well; the earlier ones are brilliant.



I hadn't read the earlier books.  :Embarrass:

here is what Amazon sez:

QuoteThe final volume in a trilogy encompassing events preceding the tsar's fall ( In War's Dark Shadow, LJ 5/1/83), the Russian Revolution ( Passage Through Armageddon, LJ 9/15/86), and the civil war. Covering 1917-21, this weaves together military, political, and social history to describe the Bolshevik triumph over internal conflict to defeat the disparate White opposition and uncertain Allied forces which attacked from all sides. The strength of this and preceding volumes is Lincoln's ability to convert complex, confusing events into lively, compelling human drama, comprehensible to a wide readership. Lincoln employs a wealth of primary sources and contemporary scholarly research, but his survey is aimed at the general reader and beginning student. He succeeds quite well. More popular and expansive than Evan Mawdsley's The Russian Civil War (Allen & Unwin, 1987), this is recommended for general and undergraduate collections.

Plus, it is only 44 cents or so before shipping.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 28, 2010, 05:42:51 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 28, 2010, 10:06:54 AM
I looked at Shattered Sword as well, found it a shade too advanced and technical for my level of knowledge. Maybe I'll give it another go.
You have to like to see how strategy is made, and how doctrine, tradition, and tactics implement strategy, to like the book.  The basic premise is that the key decisions made in the battle can only be understood if you understand something about the way the decision-makers thought about how they were supposed to be behaving under the circumstances.  Nagumo hates his job and knows it is over his head, but since the only other job he could take is a non-combat job, he would rather stay where he is and fail than transfer and be thought a coward.  Yamamoto knows nagumo is over his head and that Kurita is the man for the job, but won't rock the boat to get his preferred commander because he barely got approval for the operation to begin with, and Nagumo has friends.  That kinda stuff.

Edit:  And it assumes that you know what a "deck cycle" is without getting an explanation, because you ain't getting one!  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 28, 2010, 06:36:43 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 28, 2010, 05:42:51 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 28, 2010, 10:06:54 AM
I looked at Shattered Sword as well, found it a shade too advanced and technical for my level of knowledge. Maybe I'll give it another go.
You have to like to see how strategy is made, and how doctrine, tradition, and tactics implement strategy, to like the book.  The basic premise is that the key decisions made in the battle can only be understood if you understand something about the way the decision-makers thought about how they were supposed to be behaving under the circumstances.  Nagumo hates his job and knows it is over his head, but since the only other job he could take is a non-combat job, he would rather stay where he is and fail than transfer and be thought a coward.  Yamamoto knows nagumo is over his head and that Kurita is the man for the job, but won't rock the boat to get his preferred commander because he barely got approval for the operation to begin with, and Nagumo has friends.  That kinda stuff.

Edit:  And it assumes that you know what a "deck cycle" is without getting an explanation, because you ain't getting one!  :lol:

I love all that strategic stuff, but things like in your edit dented my ability to understand it. It seemed to me at least to be written with someone with at least some professional-level knowledge of naval matters in mind.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2010, 06:38:57 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 28, 2010, 05:42:51 PM
.  Yamamoto knows nagumo is over his head and that Kurita is the man for the job
Kurita is always the man for the job.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classicbattletech.com%2Fimages%2Fgallery%2FDraconis_Combine_Logo%40full.jpg&hash=c0b4e5e0bf6f9b0357bdcce5da58297c8daf6362)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 28, 2010, 07:33:00 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jesseshunting.com%2Fimages%2Fface_palm_star_trek_picard.jpg&hash=0175931c45c6c235496bd47931b341186ff6992a)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2010, 07:37:02 PM
Come on! That's fucking nerd gold right there.

After all House Kurita is directly descended from that Admiral.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 28, 2010, 07:37:50 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2010, 07:37:02 PM
Come on! That's fucking nerd gold right there.

After all House Kurita is directly descended from that Admiral.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toplessrobot.com%2Fpicard_finger.jpg&hash=4bdc53e5b9fc01b90d3f40579fdb0e2ffd6c4b1d)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2010, 07:38:39 PM
Your use of Star Trek images in response strips you of any anti-nerd credibility.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 28, 2010, 07:40:23 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2010, 07:38:39 PM
Your use of Star Trek images in response strips you of any anti-nerd credibility.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2210%2F2511436220_985d6b2a6a.jpg&hash=99eac755fe15776042ed0d62797b69cc4d44630a)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on January 29, 2010, 12:01:24 AM
Quote from: Malthus on January 24, 2010, 11:47:40 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 23, 2010, 07:25:49 PM
For Fantasy, the Joe Abercrombie books are pretty good. The blade itself is the first one.

I second this; I actually prefer Abercrombie to Martin. For one, he finishes his series.  ;)

I enjoyed Abercrombie, but I felt let down by the ending of the series (the The Blade Itself one).  I'm not reading more of his stuff as a result.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2010, 12:27:08 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2010, 07:38:39 PM
Your use of Star Trek images in response strips you of any anti-nerd credibility.

He didn't have any to begin with.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 29, 2010, 05:07:13 AM
I enjoyed Sundiver a fair bit. Started with Startide Rising now, though the concept of Dolphin led spaceships is a bit weird if fun. :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on January 29, 2010, 08:26:32 AM
Battletech, eh.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 29, 2010, 09:04:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 29, 2010, 05:07:13 AM
I enjoyed Sundiver a fair bit. Started with Startide Rising now, though the concept of Dolphin led spaceships is a bit weird if fun. :lol:
The Uplift War books are a lot of fun.  The second trilogy takes much, much longer to get going, but is worth it in the end.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 29, 2010, 09:54:26 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 29, 2010, 12:01:24 AM
Quote from: Malthus on January 24, 2010, 11:47:40 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 23, 2010, 07:25:49 PM
For Fantasy, the Joe Abercrombie books are pretty good. The blade itself is the first one.

I second this; I actually prefer Abercrombie to Martin. For one, he finishes his series.  ;)

I enjoyed Abercrombie, but I felt let down by the ending of the series (the The Blade Itself one).  I'm not reading more of his stuff as a result.

Really? I kind liked how he wrapped it all up.

I'm curious. What was so disappointing, as to preclude ever reading anything by him again? 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 29, 2010, 10:47:58 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 29, 2010, 09:04:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 29, 2010, 05:07:13 AM
I enjoyed Sundiver a fair bit. Started with Startide Rising now, though the concept of Dolphin led spaceships is a bit weird if fun. :lol:
The Uplift War books are a lot of fun.  The second trilogy takes much, much longer to get going, but is worth it in the end.

Yes, enjoying it a fair bit so far. I'm in a bit of a space adventure/opera mood lately, with the arrival of ME2 and just finishing my third round in ME1 (first one on PC - picked the game originally on XBox, then for PC when it was down to 10 EUR).

The Uplift books and ME made me wonder, though, why there's often rather outlandish aliens or entities in sci-fi books while fantasy novels mostly seem to make do with the tried and true stock races from Tolkien, with some variations.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on January 29, 2010, 10:58:35 AM
Just finished "Confederate Emancipation" by Bruce Levine.  An interesting look at the evolution of plans to arm slaves, and how the CSA's political setup made the idea unthinkable until it was too late to do any good.
http://bit.ly/b5hJIy
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on January 29, 2010, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2010, 05:05:20 AM
Does there need to be a real economic incentive? As long as the Nazi's wacked out ideology says so and they successfully indoctrinate the people it will be done.
Yes.  In the end, economics will usually trump ideology.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on January 29, 2010, 11:29:42 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2010, 06:38:57 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 28, 2010, 05:42:51 PM
.  Yamamoto knows nagumo is over his head and that Kurita is the man for the job
Kurita is always the man for the job.
Marik rules.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 01, 2010, 05:44:26 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 27, 2010, 07:55:14 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 27, 2010, 03:29:51 PM
Next up: The Kojiki.

I have the turn of the century translation available on Gutenberg.  The author translated all the smutty parts into Latin.  I should have studied Latin better since the text reads like "God and Goddess meet and then LATIN LATIN LATIN and the child was born.

And there was an awful lot of Latin in the book.  :perv:

Next up The Koran :osama:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 01, 2010, 06:21:33 PM
Anything good on the Sino-Japanese war in the 30's and 40's? Playing HoI3 as Japan makes me want to read on the subject.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 03, 2010, 09:37:15 AM
I read the first Time's Tapestry Book by Stephen Baxter.  It is fiction and set in Roman Britain.  Some sort of Prophecy that is later revealed to be a message from the future imploring this family to kill Constantine the Great before he makes Christianity the imperial cult.

I read The Big U by Neil Stephenson.  That was funny as hell.  Old book, recommend it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on February 03, 2010, 01:18:59 PM
About half way through the novel of "Let The Right One In" creepier and more disturbing than the movie. So far it seems like the movie is a good adaptation, in that they've (to paraphrase the great Dickie Dunn) "got the spirit of the thing". :thumbsup:!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 03, 2010, 07:47:12 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 29, 2010, 11:29:42 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2010, 06:38:57 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 28, 2010, 05:42:51 PM
.  Yamamoto knows nagumo is over his head and that Kurita is the man for the job
Kurita is always the man for the job.
Marik rules.
Davion!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 03, 2010, 07:48:28 PM
'The Utility of Force' by General Sir Rupert Smith.  Very interesting book, I'd recommend it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 03, 2010, 07:49:06 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 03, 2010, 09:37:15 AM
I read the first Time's Tapestry Book by Stephen Baxter.  It is fiction and set in Roman Britain.  Some sort of Prophecy that is later revealed to be a message from the future imploring this family to kill Constantine the Great before he makes Christianity the imperial cult.

If a time traveler wanted to get rid of a religion, why wouldn't he go all the way back to the source. There are tens of millions of Christians at this point.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 03, 2010, 08:25:03 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 03, 2010, 07:49:06 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 03, 2010, 09:37:15 AM
I read the first Time's Tapestry Book by Stephen Baxter.  It is fiction and set in Roman Britain.  Some sort of Prophecy that is later revealed to be a message from the future imploring this family to kill Constantine the Great before he makes Christianity the imperial cult.

If a time traveler wanted to get rid of a religion, why wouldn't he go all the way back to the source. There are tens of millions of Christians at this point.
Preventing Christianity from being turned into the tools of the State isn't the same as erasing it all together. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on February 03, 2010, 08:47:21 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 03, 2010, 07:47:12 PM
Davion!

:x
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 04, 2010, 02:36:31 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 01, 2010, 05:44:26 PM

And there was an awful lot of Latin in the book.  :perv:

Next up The Koran :osama:

Now I want to blow up a bus of innocent schoolchildren :osama:

The version available on Gutenberg is from the beginning of the 20th century and the translator gives a very frank assessment of some of the Sutras in the explanatory notes.  My personal favorite is the one where Allah gives Mohammed permission to break his oath to one of his wives and thereby to keep his favorite concubine.

One interesting note that the translator made was that the 72 Houris are only found in the Sutras written when Mohammed had one wife (and I believe she was several years older than him.)  In the Sturas written when he had nine wives (plus numerous slaves) heaven is depicted as more like a Persian bath.

Next up:  The Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch, Hui Neng
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 04, 2010, 05:17:36 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 04, 2010, 02:36:31 PM

Next up:  The Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch, Hui Neng

Well that was short, sweet and to the void.   :mellow:

I learned that "Teh" is "Rightness of mind."  Berkut's posts have taken on a new profundity. :mellow:

Next up The Philosophy of Tolkien by Peter Kreeft.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on February 04, 2010, 05:32:16 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 03, 2010, 08:47:21 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 03, 2010, 07:47:12 PM
Davion!

:x

DAVION!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 04, 2010, 06:33:04 PM
Just started in on The Howard Zinn Reader, a collection of essays and articles.

Dude was pretty freakin pink.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 04, 2010, 06:44:49 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 04, 2010, 02:36:31 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 01, 2010, 05:44:26 PM

And there was an awful lot of Latin in the book.  :perv:

Next up The Koran :osama:

Now I want to blow up a bus of innocent schoolchildren :osama:

The version available on Gutenberg is from the beginning of the 20th century and the translator gives a very frank assessment of some of the Sutras in the explanatory notes.  My personal favorite is the one where Allah gives Mohammed permission to break his oath to one of his wives and thereby to keep his favorite concubine.

One interesting note that the translator made was that the 72 Houris are only found in the Sutras written when Mohammed had one wife (and I believe she was several years older than him.)  In the Sturas written when he had nine wives (plus numerous slaves) heaven is depicted as more like a Persian bath.
Why are they giants? :unsure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri#Description
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 05, 2010, 12:14:32 AM
Sav, I think it's called Sura in the Koran, not Sutra or Stura. ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 01:17:28 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 03, 2010, 07:47:12 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 29, 2010, 11:29:42 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2010, 06:38:57 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 28, 2010, 05:42:51 PM
.  Yamamoto knows nagumo is over his head and that Kurita is the man for the job
Kurita is always the man for the job.
Marik rules.
Davion!

:rolleyes:

It's all about House Steiner.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on February 05, 2010, 01:31:55 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 01:17:28 AM
It's all about House Steiner.

:contract:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Berkut on February 05, 2010, 01:27:22 PM
Has anyone read Peter Hamilton's The Nights Dawn trilogy?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 05, 2010, 01:52:08 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 05, 2010, 01:27:22 PM
Has anyone read Peter Hamilton's The Nights Dawn trilogy?
It is very entertaining. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on February 05, 2010, 01:55:31 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 05, 2010, 01:27:22 PM
Has anyone read Peter Hamilton's The Nights Dawn trilogy?

Yup. I thought it was enjoyable, but very silly, space opera.

It's a fun read, just park your brain at the door a bit. Also, I thought the ending was weak.

Dunno if you want any spoilers, so I'll not say more.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 05, 2010, 01:58:36 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 05, 2010, 01:27:22 PM
Has anyone read Peter Hamilton's The Nights Dawn trilogy?

I was entertained.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on February 05, 2010, 03:15:11 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 05, 2010, 01:27:22 PM
Has anyone read Peter Hamilton's The Nights Dawn trilogy?

Yes, although the giant deus-ex-machina ending is both satisfying and unsatisfying at the same time. I read them when they were first published here in the UK, even buying the last volume in hardcover. I REALLY want the extras Joshua Calvert was loaded with... ;)

Have you read his earlier Greg Mandel books? They are also very good, whereas his more recent books seem to be "going off the boil" in my opinion.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on February 05, 2010, 03:38:27 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 05, 2010, 01:55:31 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 05, 2010, 01:27:22 PM
Has anyone read Peter Hamilton's The Nights Dawn trilogy?

Yup. I thought it was enjoyable, but very silly, space opera.

It's a fun read, just park your brain at the door a bit. Also, I thought the ending was weak.

Dunno if you want any spoilers, so I'll not say more.

This.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 06, 2010, 10:47:35 AM
The wonderful 'Woman in White'  I can't recommend it enough to anyone who, even slightly, likes a Victorian novel.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on February 06, 2010, 01:54:17 PM
Final Crisis.

What a pile of dog shit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 06, 2010, 03:46:03 PM
I've read enough Howard Zinn now to figure out that he was an idiot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on February 07, 2010, 10:34:32 PM
I'm looking for recommendations about:

-North Africa in World War II. Ideally, something that covers everything from the Italians getting their asses kicked in 1940, to the Italians getting their asses kicked in 1943.

-The Middle East/North Africa in World War I. Similarly, an overview would be ideal.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on February 08, 2010, 12:55:35 AM
Quote from: Kleves on February 07, 2010, 10:34:32 PM
-The Middle East/North Africa in World War I. Similarly, an overview would be ideal.

"North Africa" in World War I didn't see much of note.  There was, mainly, the Senussi uprisings and some minor Egyptian revolts along with the two attempts by the Turks to force the Suez Canal (one achieving very limited success, the other turning out to be a giant waste of time).

For the Middle East side of things, however, I can recommend Ordered to Die by Edward J. Erickson.  It's written from the Turkish point of view and most of the sources are Turkish archives that the author was allowed access to.  The writing is not exactly stellar, but it's one of the few English works on pretty much everything concerning the Turkish armies of the period and even contains a bit of enlightening (and disheartening) information about their involvement in the Balkan Wars.  It is, however, rather expensive to purchase, but a good university library should have a copy.

A more accessible, popular and affordable work with not quite as much of the nitty-gritty would be A Peace to End All Peace by David Fromkin.  It is not only about the war, but also its aftereffects in the region and the effects on today.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 12, 2010, 09:40:00 PM
Kazantzakis's 'Freedom and Death'.  An incredible book that is joyous and life-affirming and makes me wish I were Cretan and hope that somehow I sire a wife so that one day I can look out around my table and say 'greetings children and grand-children'.  This is really very, very good.

Currently reading the next Palliser novel, 'Phineas Finn'. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pat on February 13, 2010, 02:24:01 AM
Was prompted to read some Hobsbawm, as he was called a genuis by Sheilbh. I'm reading his book on nationalism parallell with Otto Bauer's "The Question of Nationalities and Social Democracy" (which I am forced to read in english as my german isn't good enough and there is no swedish translation).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on February 13, 2010, 03:54:46 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 12, 2010, 09:40:00 PM
Kazantzakis's 'Freedom and Death'.  An incredible book that is joyous and life-affirming and makes me wish I were Cretan and hope that somehow I sire a wife so that one day I can look out around my table and say 'greetings children and grand-children'.  This is really very, very good.

:)  The derivation of my Languish moniker, published in Greek as Καπετάν Μιχάλης, more or less Capetan Mihali.  Kazantzakis was a true philosopher and a fantastic writer, everything from Zorba to his brutal narratives of the Greek civil war.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 13, 2010, 04:31:41 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 12, 2010, 09:40:00 PM
makes me wish I were Cretan and hope that somehow I sire a wife

I thought you were from England, not Alabama?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 13, 2010, 06:46:11 AM
Everyone should read Night's Dawn.

Was Final Crisis finished?  Or did they decide to just let it die and go on to Blackest Night?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pedrito on February 15, 2010, 04:05:01 AM
I'm reading (and much enjoying) Daniel Keyes' The minds of Billy Milligan, an account on the life, trials and psychiatric treatment of this guy who committed several crimes, including three rapes, and was diagnosed with a stunning case of multiple personality disorder: from time to time, he was split between not two, not three, but ten different personalities, and during the treatment psychologists discovered other 14 personalities, for a grand total of 24 of them :huh:

A quick (and amusing, in a rather sad way) of the main 10 personalities:

Quote1. Billy Milligan (William Stanly Milligan) is the core personality.
2. Arthur is a extremely sophisticated and educated Englishman. He studies in the fields of science and medicine, with a focus on hematology. He speaks and reads arab. He controlled the spot during times that required intellectual thinking. Only one of the two who could classify a person as an undesirable.
3. Ragen Vadascovinich is the "keeper of hate". Ragen has a Slavic accent and can write and speak in Serbo-Croatian. He is an expert in munitions and also has extreme strength due to the fact that Arthur taught him how to control his adrenalin flow. Ragen has a soft spot for women and children, in general, and will not hesitate to assist one if they are in trouble. He controls the spot in dangerous times and is the second person to be able to label someone as undesirable.
4. Allen is a con man and a manipulator. He is the most common person to talk to the outside world. He plays the drums and paints portraits. Also the only person to be right-handed.
5. Tommy is the escape artist; he is often confused with Allen. He plays the tenor sax and is an electronics expert. He is also a painter, but he paints landscapes.
6. Danny is the scared person. He is afraid of people, especially men. He only paints still lifes, due to the fact that Chalmer made him dig his own grave and was then buried in it.
7. David who is only eight is the "keeper of pain". He comes to the spot to take the pain of the others.
8. Christene ,who is three, was the one who would go and stand in the corner in school when "Billy" would get in trouble. Arthur was able to teach her how to read and write but she was found to have dyslexia. Ragen has a special bond with her.
9. Christopher, Christene's brother, plays the harmonica.
10. Adalana, a lesbian, who actually wished Ragen off the spot during a mix up time, when she raped the Ohio University students. She cooks and cleans house for the others, and writes poetry.

L.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 15, 2010, 10:54:14 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 04, 2010, 05:17:36 PM
Next up The Philosophy of Tolkien by Peter Kreeft.

It was more The Philosophy of Peter Kreeft's as illustrated by JRR Tokien and CS Lewis, but still worthwhile.  Next up The Ecclesiastical History of the English People by Bede.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on February 15, 2010, 01:13:48 PM
Finished "Let the Right One In". great book. lending it to a co-worker today. started China Mielville's "King Rat"... lacking a George Segal, but still pretty entertaining thus far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on February 15, 2010, 01:57:21 PM
Finished John Irving's Last Night in Twisted River. Irving fans will love it. You will never look at an 8-inch skillet the same way again.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 15, 2010, 05:41:11 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 04, 2010, 06:44:49 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 04, 2010, 02:36:31 PM
One interesting note that the translator made was that the 72 Houris are only found in the Sutras written when Mohammed had one wife (and I believe she was several years older than him.)  In the Sutras written when he had nine wives (plus numerous slaves) heaven is depicted as more like a Persian bath.
Why are they giants? :unsure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri#Description

I'm not sure, but I think there was a belief common in that period that mankind started out as taller but degenerated over time.  In City of God, for instance, Saint Augustine mentions the giant teeth (presumably from a mastadon) he has seen as evidence that there were giants in previous ages. Since in Islamic tradition humans will be recreated as they enter paradise, I would presume the scholars who believe that the Houri will be giants also believe that men will be recreated more perfectly, that is to say as giants themselves.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: AnchorClanker on February 15, 2010, 05:50:48 PM
Cuurently reading R.J.B. Bosworth's biography of Mussolini.  Good read, thus far.  I'm at 1921 now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 15, 2010, 06:11:22 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 15, 2010, 05:50:48 PM
Cuurently reading R.J.B. Bosworth's biography of Mussolini.  Good read, thus far.  I'm at 1921 now.

/Spoiler

He becomes dictator
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on February 15, 2010, 06:46:48 PM
Just finished the Magus in an epic 250 page cession.

Holy fuck.

Especially mind blowing as I'm in something of a similar situation with a girl, though I'm in Istanbul.  And am want for insanely rich, possibly Greek experimental psychologists.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on February 15, 2010, 07:19:06 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 15, 2010, 05:50:48 PM
Cuurently reading R.J.B. Bosworth's biography of Mussolini.  Good read, thus far.  I'm at 1921 now.

/spoiler. He gets hung upside down at the end.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 16, 2010, 04:31:46 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 15, 2010, 10:54:14 AM
Next up The Ecclesiastical History of the English People by Bede.

It's an interesting account of the Dark Ages especially in Northumbria.  He dwells at length on how the poor, dumb Harps celebrate Easter on the wrong day and how their monks cut their hair wrong.  Fortunately they were saved from error in the eighth century and all has been peace and prosperity in Ireland since.   :)

Next up: Nennius's "History of the Britons" and "The Welsh Annales."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 16, 2010, 04:35:10 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on February 15, 2010, 06:46:48 PM
And am want for insanely rich, possibly Greek experimental psychologists.
I've seen this happen before; you study a foreign language and it crowds your first language out of your brain.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on February 16, 2010, 06:34:21 PM
Goldsworthy's Caesar: Life of a Colossus. Just started it a few days ago, but great so far. I should have been born two thousand years ago. :patton:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on February 17, 2010, 04:10:52 AM
Feel like the book deserves a real mention, as it is great.

THE MAGUS by John Fowles

Set in the early 1950s, Mr. Nicholas Urfe , a rakish, somewhat fashionable young Oxford graduate,  attempts to escape an increasingly serious relationship with a beautiful Australian stewardess, Amanda, by becoming a teacher on an obscure Greek island, Phraxos.  Urfe becomes acquainted with the Island's most colorful inhabitant, Maurice Conchis, a very wealthy man of unknown origin but supreme erudition and wit.  The majority of the plot details the various, increasingly bizarre tasks Conchis sets up for Urfe, including very Languish re-enactments and seemingly supernatural spectacles. 

Without wishing to spoil any of the plot, I can firmly say that this is the greatest novel I have read since Moby-Dick, which was a good two years ago.  Fowles somehow manages to predict almost all of what would soon be called Post-Modernism, and Fowles' fitfully brilliant prose and singularly intriguing characters make for an unforgettable read.  Can't but recommend it for all who seem interested. 

I'm now interested in reading something more on modern Greece.  Sheilbh, Mihail, what translation of Kazantzakis (I'm very sure that name has Turkish origins, interestingly) did you read?  I also think both of you would like The Magus a great deal.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pat on February 17, 2010, 04:26:20 AM
Finished Jascha Golowanjuks "My golden road from Samarkand", an autobiographical description of his escape over mountains and across deserts from the Bolsheviks during the Russian revolution. Great book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on February 17, 2010, 08:30:48 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 16, 2010, 06:34:21 PM
Goldsworthy's Caesar: Life of a Colossus. Just started it a few days ago, but great so far. I should have been born two thousand years ago. :patton:

Good book. Good historian.

I'm expecting his latest work, on the fall of the Roman Empire, any day now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 17, 2010, 05:52:27 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 16, 2010, 04:31:46 PM

Next up: Nennius's "History of the Britons" and "The Welsh Annales."

History of the Britons doesn't really seem like a complete work; just a random collection of stories, personal anecdotes and family trees; like an unfocused Herodotus.  I learned that nearly all of the rulers of the individual Anglo-Saxon kingdoms claimed Woden as an ancestor.  Both Nennius and the Annales mention King Arthur as a historical person.

Next up:  The Book of the Thousand and One Nights
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on February 17, 2010, 06:07:37 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 17, 2010, 05:52:27 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 16, 2010, 04:31:46 PM

Next up: Nennius's "History of the Britons" and "The Welsh Annales."

History of the Britons doesn't really seem like a complete work; just a random collection of stories, personal anecdotes and family trees; like an unfocused Herodotus.  I learned that nearly all of the rulers of the individual Anglo-Saxon kingdoms claimed Woden as an ancestor.  Both Nennius and the Annales mention King Arthur as a historical person.

Next up:  The Book of the Thousand and One Nights

According to the geneological chart I saw at the Tower of London, the current royal family of Britian still to this day claims Woden as its first ancestor.

Not sure how claiming descent from a pagan diety can be squared with being the head of a Christian denomination ... maybe they are covering all the bases just to make sure?  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 17, 2010, 07:54:44 PM
Re-reading 1984 and The Bell Jar.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 18, 2010, 08:54:45 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 17, 2010, 06:07:37 PM

According to the geneological chart I saw at the Tower of London, the current royal family of Britian still to this day claims Woden as its first ancestor.

Not sure how claiming descent from a pagan diety can be squared with being the head of a Christian denomination ... maybe they are covering all the bases just to make sure?  :D

I've seen that too.  I believe the current royal family traces its ancestry back through the kings of Wessex so they probably use the same early geneology that Nennius uses.

It's surprising to see Nennius (who was a Christian monk) use that geneology since the common opinion of the time was that the pagan deities were actually devils.  Bede (who wrote at about the same time as Nennius) doesn't even bother calling them "Pagan gods" or anything similar; he simply calls them "Devils."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on February 18, 2010, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 18, 2010, 08:54:45 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 17, 2010, 06:07:37 PM

According to the geneological chart I saw at the Tower of London, the current royal family of Britian still to this day claims Woden as its first ancestor.

Not sure how claiming descent from a pagan diety can be squared with being the head of a Christian denomination ... maybe they are covering all the bases just to make sure?  :D

I've seen that too.  I believe the current royal family traces its ancestry back through the kings of Wessex so they probably use the same early geneology that Nennius uses.

It's surprising to see Nennius (who was a Christian monk) use that geneology since the common opinion of the time was that the pagan deities were actually devils.  Bede (who wrote at about the same time as Nennius) doesn't even bother calling them "Pagan gods" or anything similar; he simply calls them "Devils."

I believe what is at work is this: in modern-day anthropology, the transition from a 'chieftianship' to an 'early state' is charactaristically marked by the creation of an elevated chiefly caste which claims descent from the gods, and thus is made of finer stuff than ordinary humans. In Saxon culture, this would be the "Woden-born". In many societies, this sentiment is so useful to the ruling class that it lingers long, long after the transition is made and  even after the religion has evolved to reject the very gods that gave rise to it.

Echoes of this cas be seen in the Bible, where the "children of god" mate with mortal women to produce "heroes, mighty men of old".

Genesis 6:4:

QuoteThe Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

The notion of God having children mating with mortals to make heroes is odd and alien to Judaism as it evolved, and has given rise to all sorts of tortured theological explainations, but from an anthropological POV it is really no different from the oddity of the head of the Anglican Church claiming ultimate descent from  Woden.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on February 21, 2010, 02:58:45 PM
Just finished Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, about the Battle off Samar during the Battle of Leyte Gulf.  I was disappointed; the first book to focus on the surface actions off Samar had to be written by a guy who didn't know what he was talking about (and had annoying "favorite words" that he used whenever he could crowbar them into the text).  The book wasn't badly written, mind; it was just disappointingly written.  Not academic at all, the author accepts the claims of the survivors as to the hits and damage they inflicted without ever attempting to reconcile those claims with the Japanese after-action reports.  The author also has a love affair with the Samuel B Roberts (a DE that actually inflicted little damage) and downplays the efforts of the Johnston (which, to be fair, has probably been over-emphasized in previous works, because its skipper got The Medal, was A Character, and was full-blooded Cherokee to boot).

While most of the author's blunders (not caught be the unskilled editor) probably wouldn't bother the typical readers (things like Hornfischer's constant confusion between "round" and "shell" or his claim that the Gambier Bay was the first carrier ever sunk by surface gunfire), probably even the neophytes know that one doesn't weigh anchor when one arrives in port, and that the constant references to "Ziggy Sprague" (rather than just "Sprague" or maybe "Admiral Sprague") looks awful.  Probably some could guess that there is something wrong with the constant reference to the rating of "boilermaker!"

The book is good for the stories of the sailors involved (which is, to be sure, the focus and largest part of the book).  Only the painfully bad poetry of one of the officers mars that element of the book, and the author does a pretty good job of jumping from ship to ship and person to person while keeping it all straight in the reader's mind.  If yu take it as a compilation of personal recollections without an attempt to be historically accurate, it is a decent book.  Just don't finish the book and think you have reliably learned anything about the battle or the Navy per se, because Hornfischer himself doesn't understand either particularly well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 26, 2010, 10:55:50 PM
Age of Innocence.  Never read any Wharton before, I'd always thought she was dour.  This book was actually rather funny.  But didn't really whet my appetite for more of her.

Back to Trollope - Phineas Finn HO!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on February 27, 2010, 12:39:05 AM
Started "The Winter King" not far into it yet, but I like the setup and the very different less cliched versions of characters so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 27, 2010, 12:48:25 AM
I just bought books by Hollinghurst and Edmund White. It shall be a gay weekend.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 28, 2010, 10:02:48 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 26, 2010, 10:55:50 PM
Age of Innocence.  Never read any Wharton before, I'd always thought she was dour.  This book was actually rather funny.  But didn't really whet my appetite for more of her.

The House of Mirth is also worthwhile.  It covers the largely the same theme (desire versus society) and is set in the same place and period.  The ending of the novel is a cheat and it features a Jewish caricature; but I think Wharton has a much better character in Lily Bart than she does in Newland Archer.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 28, 2010, 10:10:53 AM
I'm re-reading the Dread Empire books.  :)

I've got a stack of about 70 or so non-fiction history books I want to read, but have no energy to.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on March 01, 2010, 10:13:24 PM
I read through Hitler's Prisoners (http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Prisoners-Seven-Stories-Memories/dp/1574886002/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267498673&sr=8-1) in a week. It's an autobiographical tale about a man who served in the Wehrmacht during WWII and was then imprisoned for speaking negatively about the conditions at the front and about Goering. In prison, he and his cell mates relate their stories, telling about themselves and how they ended up in prison, making this book 7 biographies, really. It gives a good look at the lives of people in Germany during the 1920s-30s, and at how the Nazi government's policies and persectution affected the lives of ordinary Germans.

One of the biggest drawbacks to the book is that, unlike in a fictional novel, not everything is resolved at the end. He never learned the fates of 3 of his cellmates (though one was almost certainly executed), nor do you really learn much about one of the cellmates, beyond just a few hints at a very interesting story.

It's an excellent book, highly recommended.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Alatriste on March 02, 2010, 01:58:05 AM
I'm reading "The Most Dangerous Enemy" Stephen Bungay's book on the Battle of Britain, translated into Spanish. I generally avoid translations, but I couldn't resist buying a book I was already interested in at just 9,95 euros.

Big Mistake.

The translator can't tell oil (lubricant) from fuel, thinks General Staff was a man, changes unit designations randomly (for example Fighter Command becomes 'Unidad de Cazas', i.e. Fighter Unit), doesn't know what a dispersal is... and that's just in the first 80 pages. The poor guy obviously hadn't got a clue about aircraft, engines and/or military matters.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on March 02, 2010, 02:05:32 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on March 02, 2010, 01:58:05 AM
I'm reading "The Most Dangerous Enemy" Stephen Bungay's book on the Battle of Britain, translated into Spanish. I generally avoid translations, but I couldn't resist buying a book I was already interested in at just 9,95 euros.

Big Mistake.

The translator can't tell oil (lubricant) from fuel, thinks General Staff was a man, changes unit designations randomly (for example Fighter Command becomes 'Unidad de Cazas', i.e. Fighter Unit), doesn't know what a dispersal is... and that's just in the first 80 pages. The poor guy obviously hadn't got a clue about aircraft, engines and/or military matters.

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Alatriste on March 02, 2010, 08:38:50 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 02, 2010, 02:05:32 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on March 02, 2010, 01:58:05 AM
I'm reading "The Most Dangerous Enemy" Stephen Bungay's book on the Battle of Britain, translated into Spanish. I generally avoid translations, but I couldn't resist buying a book I was already interested in at just 9,95 euros.

Big Mistake.

The translator can't tell oil (lubricant) from fuel, thinks General Staff was a man, changes unit designations randomly (for example Fighter Command becomes 'Unidad de Cazas', i.e. Fighter Unit), doesn't know what a dispersal is... and that's just in the first 80 pages. The poor guy obviously hadn't got a clue about aircraft, engines and/or military matters.

:lol:

Hey, don't laugh ( ;) ) you haven't got to translate a paragraph on Bf190 and 110 slats and how they operated when it's painfully obvious he didn't have the slightest idea of what a slat is. I feel sorry for him, because it's evident he tried his best but this work should have gone to a specialist, someone versed at least in aeronautical terms and jargon, if not knowledgeable in military history.   
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 02, 2010, 08:39:56 AM
Just reread 1984 for the first time in about 20 years. Goes without saying that it's a great book but I found parts of the 1984 worls a bit difficult to swallow this time round. My biggest problem is the comparative freedom given to the Proles. What self-respecting uber-totalitarian givernment doesn't care what 85% of the population think?

Currently reading Bad Science by Ben Goldacre. Fantatic book lampooning alternative therapies (vitamin pushers, hmoeopaths etc) and big pharma which should be required reading for all journalists, doctors and science teachers.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 04, 2010, 12:14:22 PM
Burned some of my xmas gift vouchers from the company on:

The Vietnam War (Mark Atwood Lawrence) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vietnam-War-Mark-Atwood-Lawrence/dp/0195314654/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267722653&sr=8-4) - been looking for a brief, readable overview of the conflict for some time

The Fall Of The West: The Death Of The Roman Superpower (Adrian Goldsworthy) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fall-West-Death-Roman-Superpower/dp/0753826925/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267722812&sr=1-1) - crumbling Empires are fun to read about
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on March 04, 2010, 06:05:45 PM
Quote from: Gups on March 02, 2010, 08:39:56 AM
Currently reading Bad Science by Ben Goldacre. Fantatic book lampooning alternative therapies (vitamin pushers, hmoeopaths etc) and big pharma which should be required reading for all journalists, doctors and science teachers.

Check out the Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan. It's similar to that, and quite good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on March 04, 2010, 06:07:31 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 03, 2010, 07:47:12 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 29, 2010, 11:29:42 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2010, 06:38:57 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 28, 2010, 05:42:51 PM
.  Yamamoto knows nagumo is over his head and that Kurita is the man for the job
Kurita is always the man for the job.
Marik rules.
Davion!
Oh god, you're one of those.  :glare:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on March 04, 2010, 06:11:40 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 13, 2010, 06:46:11 AM
Was Final Crisis finished?  Or did they decide to just let it die and go on to Blackest Night?
They sort of finished it.  Between Final Crisis and Marvel's Ultimatum, 2009 might have been the worst year for Events in the history of comics.  If Jeph Loeb were assassinated, I'd hold a celebration.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 05, 2010, 08:26:13 AM
I just finished a book callled Guerilla Pilot in Biafra (in Swedish with English summary). One of the participants tells the unlikely story of how Swedish count von Rosen led Swedish pilots in small Swedish sports planes in very successful attacks on the Nigerian army and air force during the Nigerian-Biafran war. Fascinating little piece of history.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2Fbiafra.jpg&hash=19b7ca11584c82b84e8c404fb841460fef947610)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 05, 2010, 01:08:42 PM
Also just ordered:
Crazy '08: How a Cast of Cranks, Rogues, Boneheads, and Magnates Created the Greatest Year in Baseball History
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 05, 2010, 10:46:59 PM
I can't fucking wait!

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tor.com%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Fblogs%2F10_02%2FTheWayOfKings.png&hash=449dba0a1afa48c55a270431226c59549b0e21e5)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 07, 2010, 12:30:40 PM
The Safeguard of the Seas, N.A.M. Rodgers' first volume of his three volume history of the navy.  Very good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on March 07, 2010, 06:20:03 PM
I just started the first book of the Dresden Files series, Storm Front. It's pretty catching.

It's the first e-book I've bought while here in Korea. It's so nice paying only $6.50 for a fiction book rather than 18,000 Korean won.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 07, 2010, 07:09:21 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on March 07, 2010, 06:20:03 PM
I just started the first book of the Dresden Files series, Storm Front. It's pretty catching.

It's the first e-book I've bought while here in Korea. It's so nice paying only $6.50 for a fiction book rather than 18,000 Korean won.
What site did you buy that off of?

It's urban fantasy right?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 07, 2010, 07:51:37 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 07, 2010, 07:09:21 PM
It's urban fantasy right?

Black wizards? :tinfoil:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: vcarter706 on March 07, 2010, 07:55:47 PM
I read Turgenev's "Fathers and Sons" a little while back. Since then, it's been biographies of Stalin and books on the Russian Revolution. Hooray.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on March 07, 2010, 08:02:12 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 07, 2010, 07:09:21 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on March 07, 2010, 06:20:03 PM
I just started the first book of the Dresden Files series, Storm Front. It's pretty catching.

It's the first e-book I've bought while here in Korea. It's so nice paying only $6.50 for a fiction book rather than 18,000 Korean won.
What site did you buy that off of?

It's urban fantasy right?

Amazon.

And yep, urban fantasy, with a bit of a film noir feel. It's good fun so far. The author is obviously a fan of Raymond Chandler (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitlepblp18h5), although in this case it was an abrupt appearance of a man with a sword, not a gun.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 09, 2010, 07:40:07 PM
Just purchased The Ethical Slut and Alison Weir's new bio of Anne Boleyn.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: MadImmortalMan on March 09, 2010, 07:45:00 PM
Now even the Federated Suns are tainted.  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 09, 2010, 10:01:23 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on February 17, 2010, 08:30:48 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 16, 2010, 06:34:21 PM
Goldsworthy's Caesar: Life of a Colossus. Just started it a few days ago, but great so far. I should have been born two thousand years ago. :patton:

Good book. Good historian.

I'm expecting his latest work, on the fall of the Roman Empire, any day now.

I just picked that up.  :)

I am just finishing Hollands' Millenium.  I really like the period he covers but I was disappointed in his writing this time.  I am a huge fan of Rubicon and Persian Fire but this book doesnt have the same kind of gripping genius the other books had.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 09, 2010, 10:10:46 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 09, 2010, 07:45:00 PM
Now even the Federated Suns are tainted.  :lol:
When did I reference them? :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 20, 2010, 12:26:05 PM
Got the Everyman Library (:mmm:) Flashman collection (Flashman, Flash for Freedom! and Flashman in the Great Game).  I recently finished the first one and am half-way through the second.  Very funny.  I know grumbler's been a Flashman proselytiser for a while but I should have listened earlier.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on March 20, 2010, 12:42:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 09, 2010, 10:01:23 PM
I just picked that up.  :)

I am just finishing Hollands' Millenium.  I really like the period he covers but I was disappointed in his writing this time.  I am a huge fan of Rubicon and Persian Fire but this book doesnt have the same kind of gripping genius the other books had.

Millennium as a subject didn't grab my attention for some reason, so I didn't pick it up although I have in my collection both Rubicon and Persian Fire. It appears that this was a wise choice from your comments.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on March 20, 2010, 12:46:56 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 20, 2010, 12:26:05 PM
Got the Everyman Library (:mmm:) Flashman collection (Flashman, Flash for Freedom! and Flashman in the Great Game).  I recently finished the first one and am half-way through the second.  Very funny.  I know grumbler's been a Flashman proselytiser for a while but I should have listened earlier.

I've been reading the odd Flashman book the last few months.  Enjoyable.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on March 20, 2010, 12:51:45 PM
As for me, the books I have most enjoyed over the last year have been the "Shadows of the Apt" series by Adrian Tchaikovsky.

http://shadowsoftheapt.com/

Even for fantasy they require at least one unusually large suspension of disbelief, but they are fluently written, have likable characters, and possess a solid plotline. The world in the books also has an impressive sense of history about it, without the weight feeling too oppressive. The fifth book is out in the summer, and it will be picked up as rapidly as possible at that point.

I especially admired the way several important characters ended up at a key confrontation in the fourth book without it feeling too contrived, when at the end of the third book you would have felt it was the last place in the world they would be at that point in time.

I haven't recommended these before, have I? :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on March 20, 2010, 12:54:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 20, 2010, 12:46:56 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 20, 2010, 12:26:05 PM
Got the Everyman Library (:mmm:) Flashman collection (Flashman, Flash for Freedom! and Flashman in the Great Game).  I recently finished the first one and am half-way through the second.  Very funny.  I know grumbler's been a Flashman proselytiser for a while but I should have listened earlier.

I've been reading the odd Flashman book the last few months.  Enjoyable.

Flashman's one of the things Grumbler and I agree on. Everyone should read them. :yes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 20, 2010, 12:55:03 PM
Almost through with The Bad Guys Won! A Season of Brawling, Boozing, Bimbo-chasing, and Championship Baseball with Straw, Doc, Mookie, Nails, The Kid, and the Rest of the 1986 Mets, the Rowdiest Team Ever to Put on a New York Uniform--and Maybe the Best (http://www.amazon.com/Brawling-Bimbo-chasing-Championship-Baseball-Uniform/dp/0060507322).

Very entertaining book about an interesting cast of characters (many of them a'holes). :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 20, 2010, 12:59:10 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on March 20, 2010, 12:54:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 20, 2010, 12:46:56 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 20, 2010, 12:26:05 PM
Got the Everyman Library (:mmm:) Flashman collection (Flashman, Flash for Freedom! and Flashman in the Great Game).  I recently finished the first one and am half-way through the second.  Very funny.  I know grumbler's been a Flashman proselytiser for a while but I should have listened earlier.

I've been reading the odd Flashman book the last few months.  Enjoyable.

Flashman's one of the things Grumbler and I agree on. Everyone should read them. :yes:

I keep forgetting to pick this series up.

After I finish Downfall of the West I will do that.  Btw I am not liking Downfall as much as I thought I would.  So far it has only amounted to a brief description of the various Emperors and co-Emperors since the second century with a bit more time spent on Constantine. I feel like I am getting the encyclopedia brittanica version of the fall of the Roman Empire in the West.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 20, 2010, 02:08:56 PM
Currently rereading Postwar.  New factoids keep popping up at me, such as the one that in 1950 there were only 32,000 high school graduates in France.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 20, 2010, 02:20:18 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 20, 2010, 02:08:56 PM
Currently rereading Postwar.  New factoids keep popping up at me, such as the one that in 1950 there were only 32,000 high school graduates in France.
I'm currently reading Judt's cri de couer for Social Democracy - very good, I'll post it shortly.

I also recommend his lecture on living with Lou Gehrig's disease, it's an amazing piece.  I think it's in the New Yorker.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Alatriste on March 20, 2010, 03:33:42 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 20, 2010, 02:08:56 PM
Currently rereading Postwar.  New factoids keep popping up at me, such as the one that in 1950 there were only 32,000 high school graduates in France.

:bleeding: or  :lol: or  :wacko:

In French, High School = Lycée

A 'Haute École', i.e. a 'high school', is for doctorates, MBA's and other post graduate courses. The most famous is probably the 'Haute Ecole de Gestion de Genève' (in francophone Switzerland)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 20, 2010, 03:41:14 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on March 20, 2010, 03:33:42 PM
:bleeding: or  :lol: or  :wacko:

In French, High School = Lycée

A 'Haute École', i.e. a 'high school', is for doctorates, MBA's and other post graduate courses. The most famous is probably the 'Haute Ecole de Gestion de Genève' (in francophone Switzerland)
Judt uses the term bachelier.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on March 20, 2010, 07:59:02 PM
really enjoying Charlie Stross' "Saturn's Children, right now. Total cheezeball cornball robot sex, SF-referential/reverential in good ways. Heinlein-y (early H. & elder H. in a kind of unholy Asimov admixture.) fluffy fun.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 21, 2010, 08:11:56 AM
Reading The Road to Bosworth Field: A New History of the Wars of the Roses by Trevor Royle. Not very meaty but it certainly works as a general introduction to the era for a n00b. There's some riveting stuff going on!

After years of thinking about it I finally bought my own copy of the complete works of William Shakespeare. I picked the RSC version.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on March 24, 2010, 03:53:27 PM
Looking for good, reasonably light book on Spanish Empire. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on March 24, 2010, 04:11:41 PM
In the middle of If The Dead Rise Not, the latest Bernie Gunther "German Noir" by Philip Kerr. Excellent, as is the whole series.

This one takes place just before the 1930s Berlin Olympics and then 20 years later in Cuba. Corruption, murder, hot dames, snappy dialogue, engaging characters, Nazis. In short, the perfect page-turner for noir fans.

Though as usual with this genre, those looking for happy-ever-after must look elsewhere. 



Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 24, 2010, 05:03:46 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on March 24, 2010, 03:53:27 PM
Looking for good, reasonably light book on Spanish Empire.

Pretty big topic.

Dogs of War by James Reston is a good read on the formation of Spain, the reconquest and Columbus.

The Last Days of the Incas by Kim MacQuarrie is another good read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on March 24, 2010, 05:39:36 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on March 24, 2010, 03:53:27 PM
Looking for good, reasonably light book on Spanish Empire.

Interested more in the colonial stuff, or what was going on in Iberia, or both?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on March 24, 2010, 07:02:24 PM
Anything and everything before the final decline and the Napoleonic war; Spanish perspective on the Eighty Year's War, Spanish conquests of both Mexico and the Inca (that one book looked good), wars on the continent, particularly involvement in more general Reformation awfulness.

Actually, would also be interested in something of an intellectual/theological history of the Reformation.  Or something military.

Also; something on development of sea-routes between China and the West, particularly evolution under Dutch and Spanish.

Obviously I've been playing a lot of Magna Mundi.

Also: Anyone know anything decent on Muscovy and early Russia? 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 24, 2010, 11:22:58 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 20, 2010, 12:55:03 PM
Almost through with The Bad Guys Won! A Season of Brawling, Boozing, Bimbo-chasing, and Championship Baseball with Straw, Doc, Mookie, Nails, The Kid, and the Rest of the 1986 Mets, the Rowdiest Team Ever to Put on a New York Uniform--and Maybe the Best (http://www.amazon.com/Brawling-Bimbo-chasing-Championship-Baseball-Uniform/dp/0060507322).

Very entertaining book about an interesting cast of characters (many of them a'holes). :)

Finished. Liked it a lot. Weird, though, to put it down and read about Dwight Gooden getting arrested on DUI charges (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5024658&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines) in the news. :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on March 24, 2010, 11:46:02 PM
I have a book entitled Spain's Road to Empire: the Making of a World Power 1492-1763, by Henry Kamen.  It's a big topic so it's a pretty broad overview, but it wasn't bad.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on March 25, 2010, 12:35:22 PM
Just finished If the Dead Rise Not by Philip Kerr, mentioned above.

I'd say it was his best yet. This series just keeps getting better and better. A total treat for noir fans, it has the perfect reveal at the end - devestating, inevitable, and yet a series of total surprises (at least to me). I read the last chapter twice, to take it all in.

I highly recommend it for anyone interested in well-researched period hardboiled detective fiction.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 25, 2010, 01:35:47 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on March 24, 2010, 07:02:24 PM
Also; something on development of sea-routes between China and the West,

http://www.amazon.com/1434-Magnificent-Chinese-Ignited-Renaissance/dp/0061492175
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Lettow77 on March 25, 2010, 02:00:45 PM
 Reading The Book of Tea, by Kakuzo Okakura, as part of a project to create a domestic Southern Tea ceremony that will be explained here if it ever comes to fruition.

I have read too many books on the South this year, and need to look abroad- to provide a new perspective at looking at the South, of course.

Books read this year on the South that I can recall, invariably leaving a couple out:
Dixie Looks Abroad: The South and U.S Foreign Relations
Shiloh
The Beleagured City
Still Fighting the Civil War
Recollections of a Southern Lady of Letters
3 Months in the Southern states
Why the South will Survive
History of a River City
Psychology of Southerners
The Mind of the South
Nathan Bedford Forrest & His Crittor Company
A Meteor Shining Brightly
Hood's Atlanta Campaign
War Crimes Against Southern Civilizans
Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government
Memoir of the Last Year of the War of Independence, Jubal Early
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 25, 2010, 02:21:54 PM
:o No wai! Me too!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 25, 2010, 04:45:14 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 25, 2010, 02:21:54 PM
:o No wai! Me too!

mieu!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on April 01, 2010, 01:43:23 PM
Most of the way through "Ungrateful Daughters" by Maureen Waller. Pretty decent and I like that about half the book is spent discussing the viewpoints and backgrounds of William III, Mary II, James II and Anne.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 01, 2010, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2010, 01:43:23 PM
Most of the way through "Ungrateful Daughters" by Maureen Waller. Pretty decent and I like that about half the book is spent discussing the viewpoints and backgrounds of William III, Mary II, James II and Anne.

Any hot Sarah Marlborough-Anne lesbian scenes?  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 01, 2010, 07:17:57 PM
Finished Flash for Freedom and Flashman in the Great Game.  I think the Great Game was the best, but they're all recommended.

I also read Wilkie Collins' No Name which was disappointing after the superb fun of The Woman in White (read it! I've forced this on two friends now, they both loved it) but it still has some great moments.  Captain Wragge and Mrs Lecount are particular favourites.

Pale Fire by Nabokov.  I loved this.  There are moments in this which are about as good as prose gets.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on April 04, 2010, 08:39:26 AM
Almost done Yann Martel (Life of Pi)'s newest book Beatrice and Virgil. This will be the most talked about book of the year. A holocaust novel without Nazis, war and Germany. Instead the two protaganists are a donkey and a howler monkey.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 04, 2010, 09:00:03 AM
Quote from: Josephus on April 04, 2010, 08:39:26 AM
Almost done Yann Martel (Life of Pi)'s newest book Beatrice and Virgil. This will be the most talked about book of the year. A holocaust novel without Nazis, war and Germany. Instead the two protaganists are a donkey and a howler monkey.
:huh: How does that work?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on April 04, 2010, 09:11:26 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 04, 2010, 09:00:03 AM
Quote from: Josephus on April 04, 2010, 08:39:26 AM
Almost done Yann Martel (Life of Pi)'s newest book Beatrice and Virgil. This will be the most talked about book of the year. A holocaust novel without Nazis, war and Germany. Instead the two protaganists are a donkey and a howler monkey.
:huh: How does that work?

allegory.

It's quite good. Martel is good at this stuff. His last book was a fable about the power of faith in which the two main characters were a young boy and a bengal tiger stuck on a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean together.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 05, 2010, 01:13:23 AM
Quote from: Josephus on April 04, 2010, 09:11:26 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 04, 2010, 09:00:03 AM
Quote from: Josephus on April 04, 2010, 08:39:26 AM
Almost done Yann Martel (Life of Pi)'s newest book Beatrice and Virgil. This will be the most talked about book of the year. A holocaust novel without Nazis, war and Germany. Instead the two protaganists are a donkey and a howler monkey.
:huh: How does that work?

allegory.

It's quite good. Martel is good at this stuff. His last book was a fable about the power of faith in which the two main characters were a young boy and a bengal tiger stuck on a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean together.
I heard about that one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on April 05, 2010, 12:32:52 PM
In the gooey midst of China Mieville's "Perdido Street Station". The dense prose can be slogtastic at times but the imagery is worth the work. It's starting to get gripping 150 pages in or so.

Finished off the Scalzi-verse books with Zoe's Tale, last week. Fun light stuff that is a quick read and pretty funny to boot.

I wouldn't mind seeing a decent movie set in that universe or an SGU style TV show. Though it wold likely end up crappy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on April 05, 2010, 12:36:33 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 01, 2010, 01:47:20 PM
Any hot Sarah Marlborough-Anne lesbian scenes?  ;)

No although there was Sarah accusing her of homosexual relations.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on April 05, 2010, 01:12:26 PM
Finished the first 5 of the "No 1 Ladies' detective Agency" series by McCall Smith.   Fun books and a great, exotic locale.  Highly recommended, though I don't recommend you get them all.  They start to run out of steam by #5 and I really don't feel any pressing need to go on right now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 05, 2010, 01:33:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2010, 12:36:33 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 01, 2010, 01:47:20 PM
Any hot Sarah Marlborough-Anne lesbian scenes?  ;)

No although there was Sarah accusing her of homosexual relations.

Introducing Anne to a hotter, younger and less bitchy (and less whig-y) relation wasn't a good move on Sarah's part.  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on April 05, 2010, 01:55:25 PM
Finished Beatrice & Virgil. Excellent. Might review it here, once my NDA is lifted, which I think is tomorrow.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grallon on April 05, 2010, 02:07:51 PM
Currently reading the "Well of Echoes" quartet by Ian Irvine : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Well_of_Echoes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Well_of_Echoes)

Comprised of :

Geomancer
Tetrarch
Alchymist
Chimaera


-----

Plenty of interesting takes on magic (here it's powered by crystals and the natural forces - geomancy being the most powerful version of what the author calls 'The Arts') and the general setting is nicely fleshed out (a XIXth century machinist society powered by the (crystal) focused forces we know as electromagnetism, gravity, strong and weak forces). 

QuoteThe Well of Echoes is set 207 years after The View from the Mirror and the events to happen at the end of that time are directly affecting the Three Worlds now. It is set on Santhenar, which is ravaged by war between the old humans and the lyrinx.

The lyrinx escaped from the void when the Forbidding was broken, the war began 50 years after their arrival on Santhenar.

The terrible Council of Scrutators has control of the world and hides the fact that it is the war itself that gives them power and so refuses to allow it to end. Though the people believe the Council (mancers all) to be the ones to control the world it is in fact the Numinator who pulls their strings, though he or she takes no active part in day to day life.

Tiaan, an artisan from Tiksi, has a strange crystal dream and soon discovers that it is no dream at all. It is the Aachim of Aachan crying out for aid, their world is being destroyed by worldwide volcanic activity. Tiaan sets off to Tirthrax to ask for the help of the Aachim of Santhenar, but is captured by Ryll the lyrinx and is forced to help in the lyrinx's frightful flesh-forming efforts.

-----

The main problem with these books is the weak writing; beginning with the very irritating naming scheme the author chose.  In fact there's none I can discern - he seems to patch up together sounds without thought for coherence or plausibility.  Anyhow that's relatively minor.  What's really bothersome is that he screws up his carefully plotted arc by constantly falling into to the tropes of his (mostly) 2 dimensional characters.   And by the overuse of the deus-ex device.  In the 3rd book one of the main characters keeps doing the same stupid shit as he was doing in the 1st book - despite the author assuring us he had grown and was mature...  And let's not even speak about the villains - a uniform lot of screechy pompous fools given to histrionics.  *sigh*

Anyhow the best element of the books are the secondary characters whom the author seem to have spent more time fleshing out than the main ones.  Ullii, Irisis and Scrutator Xervish Flydd.

All is all the books are interesting for some of the ideas developed but can chafe your nerves rather early.




G.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on April 06, 2010, 06:33:12 PM
Has anyone read Massie's Peter the Great? If so, is it any good? If not, does anyone have any suggestions for a good book on the Great Northern War or Russia during that time period?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on April 06, 2010, 07:33:20 PM
Quote from: Kleves on April 06, 2010, 06:33:12 PM
Has anyone read Massie's Peter the Great? If so, is it any good? If not, does anyone have any suggestions for a good book on the Great Northern War or Russia during that time period?

Yes. I enjoyed it. Should be dirt cheap too.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on April 06, 2010, 07:51:19 PM
I'm up to book 4 in the Dresden Files, Summer Knight. I had planned to stop after book 3, due to the increasing number of annoying plot holes, but since book 3 ended with the start of a story arc, I'm willing to keep going. I'm a sucker for interesting story arcs.

Also, I'm looking for a good, interesting and not difficult to read history book that I can buy at Amazon's Kindle store. Suggestions are welcome. I'm not picky about what history, as long as it's a "page turner".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on April 06, 2010, 07:58:50 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on April 06, 2010, 07:51:19 PM
Also, I'm looking for a good, interesting and not difficult to read history book that I can buy at Amazon's Kindle store. Suggestions are welcome. I'm not picky about what history, as long as it's a "page turner".
Flashman.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on April 06, 2010, 09:14:22 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 05, 2010, 01:33:06 PM
Introducing Anne to a hotter, younger and less bitchy (and less whig-y) relation wasn't a good move on Sarah's part.  :lol:

Indeed, indeed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on April 06, 2010, 09:56:21 PM
Yann Martel's Beatrice and Virgil.

Henry is a writer who plans on writing two books on the Holocaust. One, an essay on the Holocaust, specifically about Holocaust literature and how it's always so literal; and  the other  a piece of fiction, with the Holocaust as allegory. He plans on publsihing oth together as a flip book, where the essay is on one side, and flip it over, the story is on the other side. No front, no back.

His publishers flip. It isn't marketable. It's a silly idea. forget about it.

Depressed, he decides to move with his wife to another, nameless European city, and get away from it all. There, he meets a taxidermist who is writing a play. The play is about two animals, a donkey named Beatrice and a monkey named Virgil. In this play, the two animals wax philosophically about a terrible event they call The Horrors. More specifically they talk about how to talk about it once it's all over. and they talk about pears and bananas.

Bit by bit, as the metaphorical banana peel falls, the writer, Henry begins to understand what the play is really about and slowly, maybe too late, begins to understand the mystery behind the taxidermist and the purpose behind the play.

Or something like that. It's really bizarre. Interviwing the author tomorrow. Not sure how that's gonna go.

That said...I really recommend this book :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on April 07, 2010, 02:22:39 PM
Alright, Peter the Great is added to the list. Now I need something that I can, thematically, order with it.

Has anyone read Trevor Royle's Crimea?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on April 07, 2010, 02:27:06 PM
Started The House of Mirth recently. Much better than Age of Innocence so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on April 07, 2010, 05:23:48 PM
Do you guys read anything good? :ph34r:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on April 09, 2010, 05:12:24 PM
Finished The House of Mirth. Wharton has been redeemed for me. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on April 09, 2010, 06:10:44 PM
Reading Guy Gavriel Kay's latest, Under Heaven. Not my cup of tea, normally, though I liked Ysobel, his last one.

This one is a fantasy novel takes place in 8th century china. I think that alone will give some of you hard ons.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on April 09, 2010, 06:50:14 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 07, 2010, 12:30:40 PM
The Safeguard of the Seas, N.A.M. Rodgers' first volume of his three volume history of the navy.  Very good.
I've been waiting for volume three for years now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on April 09, 2010, 06:50:27 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 09, 2010, 07:45:00 PM
Now even the Federated Suns are tainted.  :lol:
They always have been, even before Tim.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on April 09, 2010, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: Kleves on April 06, 2010, 06:33:12 PM
Has anyone read Massie's Peter the Great? If so, is it any good? If not, does anyone have any suggestions for a good book on the Great Northern War or Russia during that time period?
It's excellent.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 10, 2010, 01:22:03 AM
Quote from: Kleves on April 06, 2010, 06:33:12 PM
Has anyone read Massie's Peter the Great? If so, is it any good? If not, does anyone have any suggestions for a good book on the Great Northern War or Russia during that time period?

Massie's Peter the Great is enjoyable.

A very good book on among other things Russia and the GNW is Robert Frost's The Northern Wars 1558-1721. A little gem.

Ragnhild Hatton's Charles XII of Sweden remains the best Charles XII bio which by necessity deals A LOT with the GNW.

Peter Englund's Poltava/The Battle that shook Europe is very enjoyable military history. It describes the Russian campaign and the battle of Poltava, but from the Swedish perspective.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on April 10, 2010, 12:43:56 PM
Quote from: Josephus on April 09, 2010, 06:10:44 PM
This one is a fantasy novel takes place in 8th century china. I think that alone will give some of you hard ons.

Psellus isn't into ancient China yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on April 10, 2010, 02:22:23 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 10, 2010, 01:22:03 AM
A very good book on among other things Russia and the GNW is Robert Frost's The Northern Wars 1558-1721. A little gem.

Ragnhild Hatton's Charles XII of Sweden remains the best Charles XII bio which by necessity deals A LOT with the GNW.

Peter Englund's Poltava/The Battle that shook Europe is very enjoyable military history. It describes the Russian campaign and the battle of Poltava, but from the Swedish perspective.
Awesome. Many thanks. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 27, 2010, 09:56:52 AM
Just finished reading Every Man Dies Alone by Hans Fallada, only recently translated into English; a drama about a couple living in wartime Nazi Germany who, inspired by the death of their son in battle, engage in a campaign of dropping post-cards critical of the regime around Berlin (inspired by a true story, and written immediately after the war by a German writer who survived incarceration in a Nazi insane asylum - and who died almost immediately after writing the novel, in fact before it was published).

I was initially kinda meh about it, but as I read more of it I found it increasingly gripping, and moving.

I don't think I've ever read a novel that made me sadder for the authour. It is obvious that he loathed the Nazi regime with every fibre of his being, and that he above all respected the sort of hopeless, quiet dignity and courage that his heroes in his novel display - willingly dying rather than be compromised by evil. A courage that, quite obviously, he personally did not display ... 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on April 27, 2010, 10:22:05 AM
That sounds intriguing Malthus. I'll look for it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 27, 2010, 10:42:58 AM
Quote from: Josephus on April 27, 2010, 10:22:05 AM
That sounds intriguing Malthus. I'll look for it.

Needless to say, it's not a barrel of laughs; but it is a stunning portrait of the life of ordinary Germans living under the Nazi regime, and the way the totalitarian regime manages to corrupt and compromise almost everyone. It out-does Orwell's 1984, if only because the author experienced that corruption first-hand, was tainted himself by it, and evidently wrote the novel in a sort of frenzy (in 24 days !!) and then almost immediately killed himself by overdosing on drugs. In short, the book is a real cry of moral dispair, and I think a masterpiece of 20th century literature.

This is the first English translation and, intriguingly, comes complete with an appendix that includes exerpts from the Gestapo files re the true story on which it is based.   
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on April 27, 2010, 10:43:25 AM
About 400 pages into War & Peace. I like that Tolstoy included Napoleon as a speaking character. Cute.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 27, 2010, 11:03:15 AM
Intrestingly, the author Hans Fallada only survived incarceration in a Nazi insane asylum by promising to write an anti-semitic novel for Propaganda Minister Josef Goebbels. During his incarceration, he actually wrote another novel, THE DRINKER, in a code so clever that for many years after his death it could not be broken.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on April 29, 2010, 06:05:52 PM
Anyone read any good fantasy or sci-fi recently? I tried looking on Amazon, but all I can seem to find is garbage (though there is a lot of that).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on April 29, 2010, 06:20:46 PM
Quote from: Kleves on April 29, 2010, 06:05:52 PM
Anyone read any good fantasy or sci-fi recently? I tried looking on Amazon, but all I can seem to find is garbage (though there is a lot of that).
Anathem by Neal Stephenson, if you haven't read it yet.  Actually, all of Neal Stephenson, if you haven't read it yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on March 24, 2011, 11:31:28 AM
The Cyborg Manifesto by Donna Haraway.  It brought to mind this quote by George Orwell:

The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one's real and one's declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish spurting out ink.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 24, 2011, 02:56:39 PM
Picked up 3 books at B&N.  "My Korean Deli;" memoir of a white preppie who marries a Korean chick and they decide to use their savings to buy her mom a Deli.  Read a positive review in the NYT, bought it for my mom to read on the plane trip to Korea.  I'll read it when she's done.

Also "The Fall of the Roman Empire" by Peter Heath.  Anyone read this?  It's filling in massive gaps in my knowledge of the era but I can't wholeheartedly endorse the writing style.

Finallly some book on the Yom Kippur War.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Slargos on March 24, 2011, 05:33:43 PM
Quote from: Kleves on April 29, 2010, 06:05:52 PM
Anyone read any good fantasy or sci-fi recently? I tried looking on Amazon, but all I can seem to find is garbage (though there is a lot of that).

If you haven't already, I strongly urge you to check out Steven Erikson. He just finished his Epic.

Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn is also a pretty good showing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 04, 2011, 06:36:22 AM
Reading "Theodore Rex" for the 2nd time, been almost ten years I think. Even more awesome than I remember! :punk:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on April 04, 2011, 07:49:58 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 27, 2010, 09:56:52 AM
Just finished reading Every Man Dies Alone by Hans Fallada, only recently translated into English; a drama about a couple living in wartime Nazi Germany who, inspired by the death of their son in battle, engage in a campaign of dropping post-cards critical of the regime around Berlin (inspired by a true story, and written immediately after the war by a German writer who survived incarceration in a Nazi insane asylum - and who died almost immediately after writing the novel, in fact before it was published).

I was initially kinda meh about it, but as I read more of it I found it increasingly gripping, and moving.

I don't think I've ever read a novel that made me sadder for the authour. It is obvious that he loathed the Nazi regime with every fibre of his being, and that he above all respected the sort of hopeless, quiet dignity and courage that his heroes in his novel display - willingly dying rather than be compromised by evil. A courage that, quite obviously, he personally did not display ...

I read this recently and thought it was excellent, a classic. It's called Alone in Berlin in the UK. Amazingly it was out of print until last year in English
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on April 18, 2011, 02:46:01 PM
I fiished the John Woods translation of Thomas Mann's "The Magic Mountain."  Througout the book I kept thinking:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmcns.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F03%2Fdestroy_this_mad_brute_wwi_propaganda_poster_us_version.jpg%3Fw%3D378%26amp%3Bh%3D576&hash=5d227099c51a3ea46d3f3d2116a0ea17e08171ca)

;)

Seriously I'm glad that no one calls me "My good engineer," the way Settembrini addresses Hans Castorp.  :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 18, 2011, 02:49:35 PM
If you want a good insight into the German psyche I highly suggest his brother Heinrich's Man of Straw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Untertan). ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Norgy on April 18, 2011, 03:02:12 PM
Hans Fallada was a welcome and positive surprise.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 21, 2011, 09:24:44 AM
I just saw that Brian Jacques passed away in Febrary. :weep:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pat on April 21, 2011, 09:57:35 AM
Quote from: The Brain on April 10, 2010, 01:22:03 AM
Quote from: Kleves on April 06, 2010, 06:33:12 PM
Has anyone read Massie's Peter the Great? If so, is it any good? If not, does anyone have any suggestions for a good book on the Great Northern War or Russia during that time period?

Massie's Peter the Great is enjoyable.

A very good book on among other things Russia and the GNW is Robert Frost's The Northern Wars 1558-1721. A little gem.

Ragnhild Hatton's Charles XII of Sweden remains the best Charles XII bio which by necessity deals A LOT with the GNW.

Peter Englund's Poltava/The Battle that shook Europe is very enjoyable military history. It describes the Russian campaign and the battle of Poltava, but from the Swedish perspective.


Perhaps not what you're looking for but I'd like to mention Voltaire's Charles XII as an immensely enjoyable read, if only because it's, well, written by Voltaire (no doubt surpassed by later works as a work of hard history, however). Voltaire was very much fascinated by Charles XII and throughout his life he met in person and interviewed and wrote letters to survivors of the campaigns and others who had information and kept revising and adding to the book. A lot of work went into it but it never lost it's original clarity of writing. For many hundreds of years, far into the 1900s, it was used to teach the French language all over the world as it was considered one of the best examples of clear and beautifully written French. It is still one the most published books in the history of French literature. So if you're into the period, you might want to take the opportunity to check out this classic.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on April 21, 2011, 10:33:19 AM
Currently reading A Century of Spies. I'm up to the 1930s now. I was pretty surprised at the extent of German sabotage in the US during WWI, particularly before the US even entered the war. It's also rather depressing to see the US COMINT go from the Black Chamber and breaking most Japanese codes by the Washington Conference to getting completely shut down by Hoover and Stimson.

And I may have recommended this before, but it's worth recommending again: Hitler's Prisoners, which is an autobiography of a German soldier who is imprisoned for making disparaging comments about Goering. He talks about his life up to that point, including his service during the campaign in the USSR. You also hear some of the stories of his cell-mates. The biggest drawback is that you never find out what happens to most of them. It's a short book, so pick it up if you've got the time.

Quote from: Kleves on April 29, 2010, 06:05:52 PM
Anyone read any good fantasy or sci-fi recently? I tried looking on Amazon, but all I can seem to find is garbage (though there is a lot of that).

Depends on what you're looking for. I do recommend The Dresden Files, a modern urban fantasy about a wizard in Chicago. The first book is Storm Front. It's an ongoing series, but it already has 12 books published, plus 1 short-story collection, and the next book is out in June. The author, Jim Butcher, has put one out every year, so it doesn't look like a Wheel of Time or SOIAF.

The first two books are good, but not great. The second is the weakest. The main story arc begins with the third book, and that's where the series really takes off and becomes great.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on April 21, 2011, 01:25:13 PM
Anyone have any recommendations for a book on the Reconstruction era?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Norgy on April 21, 2011, 01:30:16 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 24, 2011, 02:56:39 PM

Also "The Fall of the Roman Empire" by Peter Heath.  Anyone read this?  It's filling in massive gaps in my knowledge of the era but I can't wholeheartedly endorse the writing style.



Yes. I quite like Heather. He does seem to be somewhat controversial, though. His style seems fine to me, but I'd probably not pick up on the less fortunate writing due to English still being my second language.

I also bought his Empires & Barbarians, but it'll be summer reading, I suspect.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 21, 2011, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on April 21, 2011, 10:33:19 AM
Depends on what you're looking for. I do recommend The Dresden Files, a modern urban fantasy about a wizard in Chicago. The first book is Storm Front. It's an ongoing series, but it already has 12 books published, plus 1 short-story collection, and the next book is out in June. The author, Jim Butcher, has put one out every year, so it doesn't look like a Wheel of Time or SOIAF.

The first two books are good, but not great. The second is the weakest. The main story arc begins with the third book, and that's where the series really takes off and becomes great.

The same author has a fantasy series out, which I thought was very entertaining - he wrote it on a challenge to see if he could combine as many fantasy tropes as humanly possible - and it works pretty well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Alera
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 21, 2011, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Norgy on April 21, 2011, 01:30:16 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 24, 2011, 02:56:39 PM

Also "The Fall of the Roman Empire" by Peter Heath.  Anyone read this?  It's filling in massive gaps in my knowledge of the era but I can't wholeheartedly endorse the writing style.



Yes. I quite like Heather. He does seem to be somewhat controversial, though. His style seems fine to me, but I'd probably not pick up on the less fortunate writing due to English still being my second language.

I also bought his Empires & Barbarians, but it'll be summer reading, I suspect.

I read Goldsworthy's "Fall of the West: The Death of the Roman Superpower" recently which I liked a lot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on April 21, 2011, 03:44:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 21, 2011, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on April 21, 2011, 10:33:19 AM
Depends on what you're looking for. I do recommend The Dresden Files, a modern urban fantasy about a wizard in Chicago. The first book is Storm Front. It's an ongoing series, but it already has 12 books published, plus 1 short-story collection, and the next book is out in June. The author, Jim Butcher, has put one out every year, so it doesn't look like a Wheel of Time or SOIAF.

The first two books are good, but not great. The second is the weakest. The main story arc begins with the third book, and that's where the series really takes off and becomes great.

The same author has a fantasy series out, which I thought was very entertaining - he wrote it on a challenge to see if he could combine as many fantasy tropes as humanly possible - and it works pretty well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Alera

I started the first book and got partway through, then put it aside. I guess it's like The Dresden Files then, starting out average then getting much better?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 21, 2011, 04:47:48 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on April 21, 2011, 03:44:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 21, 2011, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on April 21, 2011, 10:33:19 AM
Depends on what you're looking for. I do recommend The Dresden Files, a modern urban fantasy about a wizard in Chicago. The first book is Storm Front. It's an ongoing series, but it already has 12 books published, plus 1 short-story collection, and the next book is out in June. The author, Jim Butcher, has put one out every year, so it doesn't look like a Wheel of Time or SOIAF.

The first two books are good, but not great. The second is the weakest. The main story arc begins with the third book, and that's where the series really takes off and becomes great.

The same author has a fantasy series out, which I thought was very entertaining - he wrote it on a challenge to see if he could combine as many fantasy tropes as humanly possible - and it works pretty well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Alera

I started the first book and got partway through, then put it aside. I guess it's like The Dresden Files then, starting out average then getting much better?

I was hooked.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on April 21, 2011, 08:19:17 PM
I'll give it another go then. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on April 22, 2011, 06:29:07 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 21, 2011, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on April 21, 2011, 10:33:19 AM
Depends on what you're looking for. I do recommend The Dresden Files, a modern urban fantasy about a wizard in Chicago. The first book is Storm Front. It's an ongoing series, but it already has 12 books published, plus 1 short-story collection, and the next book is out in June. The author, Jim Butcher, has put one out every year, so it doesn't look like a Wheel of Time or SOIAF.

The first two books are good, but not great. The second is the weakest. The main story arc begins with the third book, and that's where the series really takes off and becomes great.

The same author has a fantasy series out, which I thought was very entertaining - he wrote it on a challenge to see if he could combine as many fantasy tropes as humanly possible - and it works pretty well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Alera
According what he said at Comic-Con, the dare was that he could treat Pokemon seriously.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 22, 2011, 06:32:42 AM
I'm rereading McCullough's Rome series.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pedrito on April 22, 2011, 06:38:31 AM
I've put my hands on Stanley Karnow's Vietnam: a History. It seems interesting, but it's been written in 1983: is it dated, or still a fundamental read about the Vietnam War?

L.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 22, 2011, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on April 21, 2011, 10:33:19 AM
The author, Jim Butcher, has put one out every year, so it doesn't look like a Wheel of Time or SOIAF.

Wheel of Time? There's like 14 books in that series.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2011, 09:07:57 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on April 22, 2011, 06:38:31 AM
I've put my hands on Stanley Karnow's Vietnam: a History. It seems interesting, but it's been written in 1983: is it dated, or still a fundamental read about the Vietnam War?

L.

Still the Bible.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pedrito on April 22, 2011, 09:09:21 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2011, 09:07:57 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on April 22, 2011, 06:38:31 AM
I've put my hands on Stanley Karnow's Vietnam: a History. It seems interesting, but it's been written in 1983: is it dated, or still a fundamental read about the Vietnam War?

L.

Still the Bible.
:) TY

L.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 22, 2011, 09:12:39 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on April 22, 2011, 09:09:21 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2011, 09:07:57 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on April 22, 2011, 06:38:31 AM
I've put my hands on Stanley Karnow's Vietnam: a History. It seems interesting, but it's been written in 1983: is it dated, or still a fundamental read about the Vietnam War?

L.

Still the Bible.
:) TY

L.

Ie wildly inaccurate and widely ignored. :secret:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 22, 2011, 09:16:58 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 21, 2011, 09:24:44 AM
I just saw that Brian Jacques passed away in Febrary. :weep:
Didn't know that.  He lived next door to my uncle and aunty.  Very nice man :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 05, 2011, 09:07:40 AM
Picked up Game of Thrones yesterday. Along with a newish biography of Theodora and an Edmund White book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 05, 2011, 07:40:20 PM
Finished Guderian's Panzer Leader the other night.  Excellent read, though it's obvious there are some self-serving portions within it.  Nonetheless, the inside view of the regime and all the documented conversations with Hitler was great reading.

Now I'm off to Tooze's The Wages of Destruction.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 05, 2011, 08:03:41 PM
Man, the History Book Club is shit nowadays. PLZ REJOIN US! 4 for a dolla!

Pfft. All shit. Very little Napoleonics, rehashed civil war crap and Nazi wanking shit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 05, 2011, 09:37:56 PM
Lots of Nazi wanking shit.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 05, 2011, 09:40:15 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 05, 2011, 09:37:56 PM
Lots of Nazi wanking shit.

Why would you read lots of Nazi wanking shit?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 05, 2011, 09:47:03 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 05, 2011, 09:40:15 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 05, 2011, 09:37:56 PM
Lots of Nazi wanking shit.

Why would you read lots of Nazi wanking shit?

Nah, it was actually a reply to the previous post. That the History Bookclub is all lots of Nazi wanking shit. Lots of Nazi wanking shit.

I stopped reading Nazi wanking shit a long time ago. Same old same old.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 05, 2011, 09:47:50 PM
For the record, I'm currently reading Let The Right One In by some Swedish dude. Not much Nazi wanking shit in it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2011, 10:00:42 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 05, 2011, 07:40:20 PM
Now I'm off to Tooze's The Wages of Destruction.

Good book, although his animus against Speer was so pronounced as to become a distraction.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 05, 2011, 10:02:53 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2011, 10:00:42 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 05, 2011, 07:40:20 PM
Now I'm off to Tooze's The Wages of Destruction.

Good book, although his animus against Speer was so pronounced as to become a distraction.

Have yet to get to that part--about 100 pages in now.  I'm enjoying the excoriating of German business society and the holes being poked in the early economic policies of the Nazis--the Autobahn, in particular.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 05, 2011, 11:09:19 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 05, 2011, 09:47:03 PM
Nah, it was actually a reply to the previous thread. That the History Bookclub is all lots of Nazi wanking shit. Lots of Nazi wanking shit.

What happened to that thread anyway?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 06, 2011, 08:10:42 AM
Reading Philp Kerr's A Quiet Flame. Excellent post-ww2 noir about a German cop, reluctantly drafted into the German army, then swept to Argentina where he gets involved in various sorts of nastiness - I highly recommend it (it's the 5th book in a series - the whole series is great).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 06, 2011, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 05, 2011, 11:09:19 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 05, 2011, 09:47:03 PM
Nah, it was actually a reply to the previous post. That the History Bookclub is all lots of Nazi wanking shit. Lots of Nazi wanking shit.

What happened to that thread anyway?  :hmm:

fixed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Norgy on May 06, 2011, 12:05:41 PM
Hunting Evil by Guy Walters. I knew he was a fairly feeble writer, having read his attempt at fiction. His research and legwork is probably good, but reading Walters is sometimes painful.

Still, it's a decent enough book, and one where Walters sides with the holocaust deniers (and a few others) and their take on Simon Wiesenthal.

Also read Harald Hardrada - The Warrior's Way by John Marsden. It's a shame that you need to read a book about a Norwegian king in English, but apparently, only books that can also serve as required reading in universities are published by Norwegian historians. I have no idea of who Marsden is, and I haven't bother to Google him. There are no "new" findings in the books, except that Harald Hardrada probably wasn't just a mean cunt, but also a bit of a cock. A different narrative, and with some unorthodox interpretations of the sagas.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on May 06, 2011, 12:44:53 PM
Reading Guy Gavriel Kay's "A Song For Arbonne". It took some patience, but now about halfway through, I'm quite enjoying it. Thank you Languish for helping me get past my fear that Kay was just some hist.romance crap, which the book jackets have always led me to think, thus keeping me far away.

any Medieval experts out there want to chime in on the history? is any of it truish? or are the names of places all as fake as they sound? it's a region/time period that I have not studied at all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 06, 2011, 12:47:18 PM
I read two of his books Yisabel and his most recent one Under Heaven which is a perfect vehicle for Languishites since it takes place in medieval China and has some ccool battle scenes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on May 06, 2011, 12:56:07 PM
I also have several Cornwell ready on the nightstand. The last two of His King Alfred series (the first of which was awesome) as well as the Stonehenge one and the Azincourt one.... Go thrift stores. (where I buy 90% of my books.) But think I will pick up that "Under Heaven" one you mention, as there's an ad in the back of the ed. the one I'm reading now, that makes it sound interesting.

Also found the new Tim Powers paperback the other day. almost nothing excites me more than that, genre fic wise.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 06, 2011, 01:03:59 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on May 06, 2011, 12:56:07 PM
I also have several Cornwell ready on the nightstand. The last two of His King Alfred series (the first of which was awesome) as well as the Stonehenge one and the Azincourt one.... Go thrift stores. (where I buy 90% of my books.) But think I will pick up that "Under Heaven" one you mention, as there's an ad in the back of the ed. the one I'm reading now, that makes it sound interesting.

Also found the new Tim Powers paperback the other day. almost nothing excites me more than that, genre fic wise.

Cornwell's Alfred series is excellent. He's reall matured as a writer - I liked Sharpe well enough, but they were more formulaic.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 06, 2011, 01:16:53 PM
Here's a book that looks interesting for Languish parents ...

http://www.amazon.com/Go-Fuck-Sleep-Adam-Mansbach/dp/1617750255?tag=5336612429-20
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on May 06, 2011, 01:44:08 PM
Anyone read any good noir recently? Aside from Kerr, Huston, Lehane? Keep in mind: good noir, so no Crais, Ellis, or such nonsense.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Norgy on May 06, 2011, 02:28:31 PM
Quote from: Kleves on May 06, 2011, 01:44:08 PM
Anyone read any good noir recently? Aside from Kerr, Huston, Lehane? Keep in mind: good noir, so no Crais, Ellis, or such nonsense.

James Crumley?

I liked The Last Good Kiss when I read it yonks ago. Of course, if you haven't yet read all of Chandler, go for those.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on May 06, 2011, 09:37:36 PM
Quote from: Kleves on May 06, 2011, 01:44:08 PM
Anyone read any good noir recently? Aside from Kerr, Huston, Lehane? Keep in mind: good noir, so no Crais, Ellis, or such nonsense.

You've read Jim Thompson, Patricia Highsmith? if not, those. modern noir.... hmmm tougher, for light noir I like Walter Mosley, at least the first few of his anyway.

Crumley, as Norgy says, also. hmmm now I need a good modern noir.....
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Zoupa on May 07, 2011, 12:23:42 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 06, 2011, 08:10:42 AM
Reading Philp Kerr's A Quiet Flame. Excellent post-ww2 noir about a German cop, reluctantly drafted into the German army, then swept to Argentina where he gets involved in various sorts of nastiness - I highly recommend it (it's the 5th book in a series - the whole series is great).

Hmm is there something called the Berlin Trilogy by him? I think I have it in french but my mum stole it.  :glare:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Zoupa on May 07, 2011, 12:26:43 AM
Quote from: Norgy on May 06, 2011, 02:28:31 PM
Quote from: Kleves on May 06, 2011, 01:44:08 PM
Anyone read any good noir recently? Aside from Kerr, Huston, Lehane? Keep in mind: good noir, so no Crais, Ellis, or such nonsense.

James Crumley?

I liked The Last Good Kiss when I read it yonks ago. Of course, if you haven't yet read all of Chandler, go for those.

I second Chandler. I just finished the Big Sleep. It's cooler than the Fonz.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on May 07, 2011, 02:13:21 PM
picked up John Varley's "Titan" Trilogy for a buck apiece at the old thrift store. Been meaning to reread that (read them & loved them as they came out 20 odd years ago) series for some time. My pile on the nightstand is starting to teeter.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on May 07, 2011, 04:03:56 PM
Just purchased the Thor Omnibus of the Walter Simonson Run for 40% off the cover price.  God bless my tax return.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on May 07, 2011, 07:34:13 PM
Quote from: Scipio on May 07, 2011, 04:03:56 PM
Just purchased the Thor Omnibus of the Walter Simonson Run for 40% off the cover price.  God bless my tax return.

Sweet.  If I had the cash, I'd have liked to have picked that up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on May 07, 2011, 08:41:50 PM
I'm reading The Black Magician trilogy, currently on book 2.

It's the french translation & I must say it is one of the better translation that I have read. Executed perfectly but I'll give some credit to the original author for crafting a wonderfull & compelling story.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Norgy on May 08, 2011, 03:28:28 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 07, 2011, 12:23:42 AM

Hmm is there something called the Berlin Trilogy by him? I think I have it in french but my mum stole it.  :glare:

Yes. I have read some Philip Kerr. It is very uneven. Sometimes, it's like his publisher just put together his notes from the toilet and called it a novel.

Rankin is better, in my opinion, and for those looking for some okay mystery novels, Norwegian author Jo Nesbo's aren't bad.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on May 08, 2011, 06:31:11 AM
Joe Abercrombie's The Heroes.  Follow up to Best Served Cold and The First Law trilogy.  Better than them, as well.

Home Fires, by Gene Wolfe.  A serious departure into a more hard sci-fi world for Wolfe; less dreamy philosophizing, more Jack Vance meets Iain M. Banks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 08:38:44 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 07, 2011, 12:23:42 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 06, 2011, 08:10:42 AM
Reading Philp Kerr's A Quiet Flame. Excellent post-ww2 noir about a German cop, reluctantly drafted into the German army, then swept to Argentina where he gets involved in various sorts of nastiness - I highly recommend it (it's the 5th book in a series - the whole series is great).

Hmm is there something called the Berlin Trilogy by him? I think I have it in french but my mum stole it.  :glare:

Yup, the Berlin Noir trilogy. It's the first three books of the series. He left off writing his series for some years, and then went back to it ...

If you like Chandler, you will love Kerr.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on May 09, 2011, 08:49:19 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 06, 2011, 01:16:53 PM
Here's a book that looks interesting for Languish parents ...

http://www.amazon.com/Go-Fuck-Sleep-Adam-Mansbach/dp/1617750255?tag=5336612429-20

:lmfao: Oh wow..
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 09, 2011, 08:49:19 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 06, 2011, 01:16:53 PM
Here's a book that looks interesting for Languish parents ...

http://www.amazon.com/Go-Fuck-Sleep-Adam-Mansbach/dp/1617750255?tag=5336612429-20

:lmfao: Oh wow..

There's a couple more:

http://www.amazon.com/Thats-Not-Your-Mommy-Anymore/dp/156975926X/ref=pd_sim_b_3

http://www.amazon.com/All-My-Friends-Are-Dead/dp/0811874559/ref=pd_sim_b_2

Can my idea for a Nazi version of Thomas the Tank Engine be far behind?  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on May 09, 2011, 12:47:39 PM
For classic crime/noir novels: Raymond Chandler, Dashiell Hammett, Jim Thompson, Cornell Woolrich, Charles Willeford, David Goodis (my personal fascination), and Georges Simenon's romans durs ("Dirty Snow," "Tropic Moon")...

If Chandler's universe is the paradigm, Hammett's is wittier and lighter, Thompson's is more psychopathic, Woolrich's is more melodramatic, and Goodis's is filled painful failure and self-destruction...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on May 16, 2011, 05:22:17 PM
Just finished James Ellroy's The Black Dahlia. I really liked it (though I seem to recall the movie being shit). After reading the afterword though, Ellroy seems to be a bit batshit insane. Still, I'll pick up The Big Nowhere soon.

Oh, and I tried reading Chandler, but gave up when I read the lines: "My God, you big dark handsome brute! I ought to throw a buick at you!"
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on May 16, 2011, 05:33:48 PM
Quote from: Kleves on May 16, 2011, 05:22:17 PM
Just finished James Ellroy's The Black Dahlia. I really liked it (though I seem to recall the movie being shit). After reading the afterword though, Ellroy seems to be a bit batshit insane. Still, I'll pick up The Big Nowhere soon.

Oh, and I tried reading Chandler, but gave up when I read the lines: "My God, you big dark handsome brute! I ought to throw a buick at you!"
How sad, to prefer Ellroy to Chandler.  It's like preferring Manischewitz to Châteauneuf-du-Pape.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 16, 2011, 05:36:46 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 09:28:07 AM
Can my idea for a Nazi version of Thomas the Tank Engine be far behind?  ;)

I always thought of more of noir, gangstery kind of take on it.  With the Island of Sodor being a depressed, pollution-ridden (all those coal burning engines!) post-industrial community with meth labs run by competing gangs being the principal form of economic activity now that the mines have declined.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: MadImmortalMan on May 16, 2011, 05:38:07 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 09, 2011, 08:49:19 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 06, 2011, 01:16:53 PM
Here's a book that looks interesting for Languish parents ...

http://www.amazon.com/Go-Fuck-Sleep-Adam-Mansbach/dp/1617750255?tag=5336612429-20

:lmfao: Oh wow..


There's a couple more:

http://www.amazon.com/Thats-Not-Your-Mommy-Anymore/dp/156975926X/ref=pd_sim_b_3

http://www.amazon.com/All-My-Friends-Are-Dead/dp/0811874559/ref=pd_sim_b_2

Can my idea for a Nazi version of Thomas the Tank Engine be far behind?  ;)


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Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 16, 2011, 05:46:24 PM
Looks like a book I'd write.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on May 16, 2011, 07:37:52 PM
Quote from: Scipio on May 16, 2011, 05:33:48 PM
How sad, to prefer Ellroy to Chandler.  It's like preferring Manischewitz to Châteauneuf-du-Pape.
I ought to throw a buick at you.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on May 16, 2011, 07:48:26 PM
Quote from: Kleves on May 16, 2011, 07:37:52 PM
Quote from: Scipio on May 16, 2011, 05:33:48 PM
How sad, to prefer Ellroy to Chandler.  It's like preferring Manischewitz to Châteauneuf-du-Pape.
I ought to throw a buick at you.
You'd have better luck throwing an Oldsmobile, kid.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 18, 2011, 01:15:42 PM
In my quest to order every single book on Amazon with naughty words in the title I have come to The Nigger Of The 'Narcissus'.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 18, 2011, 01:19:43 PM
I read Let The Right One In by some guy with a Swedish name. I've watched both versions of the movie and liked them.

Teh book, i think, was somewhat uneven.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on May 18, 2011, 04:20:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 21, 2011, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Norgy on April 21, 2011, 01:30:16 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 24, 2011, 02:56:39 PM

Also "The Fall of the Roman Empire" by Peter Heath.  Anyone read this?  It's filling in massive gaps in my knowledge of the era but I can't wholeheartedly endorse the writing style.



Yes. I quite like Heather. He does seem to be somewhat controversial, though. His style seems fine to me, but I'd probably not pick up on the less fortunate writing due to English still being my second language.

I also bought his Empires & Barbarians, but it'll be summer reading, I suspect.

I read Goldsworthy's "Fall of the West: The Death of the Roman Superpower" recently which I liked a lot.

Heather's book on the Fall of the Roman Empire is the superior work, but I can understand people who have quibbles with his writing style (which I feel is more pronounced in "Empires & Barbarians" than it is in "The Fall".)

Both books are fascinating reads, as much for what they say about how our view of the past has changed over the years (in particular for this see "Empires & Barbarians") than just for the fine historical interpretation itself.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on May 19, 2011, 12:19:57 PM
Reading Tim Powers' 2006 book "Three Days To Never" ... which I had somehow missed completely until seeing it in a thrift store recently. Love Powers. This book is just as entertaining as any of his earlier ones so far. Great mix of silly conspiracy stuff, science that could easily be confused with magic and vice versa.... kind of like De Lint filtered through Phil Dick....oddly One of his great early novels was used for (hopefully the more coherent bits) of the new Pirates of The Caribbean movie (The Stress of her Regard... which is the best Pirate-y thing I've ever read) ... I hope he was handsomely compensated for whatever horrible things they do with that clever story.

when I finish that i may re-read Varley's "Titan" trilogy. Which I haven't re-read since the mid eighties. (read all three at least three times before that.) Cirocco Jones is one of my all time favourite characters in any book anywhere.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 19, 2011, 12:26:40 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on May 19, 2011, 12:19:57 PM
Reading Tim Powers' 2006 book "Three Days To Never" ... which I had somehow missed completely until seeing it in a thrift store recently. Love Powers. This book is just as entertaining as any of his earlier ones so far. Great mix of silly conspiracy stuff, science that could easily be confused with magic and vice versa.... kind of like De Lint filtered through Phil Dick....oddly One of his great early novels was used for (hopefully the more coherent bits) of the new Pirates of The Caribbean movie (The Stress of her Regard... which is the best Pirate-y thing I've ever read) ... I hope he was handsomely compensated for whatever horrible things they do with that clever story.

when I finish that i may re-read Varley's "Titan" trilogy. Which I haven't re-read since the mid eighties. (read all three at least three times before that.) Cirocco Jones is one of my all time favourite characters in any book anywhere.

It was On Stranger Tides, not The Stress of Her Regard ... and I assume Mr. Powers got a butt-load of pirate loot out of the deal.  ;)

Edit: my fave remains The Anubis Gates.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on May 19, 2011, 02:30:58 PM
I think Korea accidentally packed up my copy of Tau Zero.  I'd gotten right to the point where it wasn't boring "character" building, too.  I've looked for it like a month, so I don't think it's in the house anymore. :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 19, 2011, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 19, 2011, 02:30:58 PM
I think Korea accidentally packed up my copy of Tau Zero.  I'd gotten right to the point where it wasn't boring "character" building, too.  I've looked for it like a month, so I don't think it's in the house anymore. :(

I hope you have checked your DVD collection.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on May 20, 2011, 01:58:30 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 19, 2011, 12:26:40 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on May 19, 2011, 12:19:57 PM
Reading Tim Powers' 2006 book "Three Days To Never" ... which I had somehow missed completely until seeing it in a thrift store recently. Love Powers. This book is just as entertaining as any of his earlier ones so far. Great mix of silly conspiracy stuff, science that could easily be confused with magic and vice versa.... kind of like De Lint filtered through Phil Dick....oddly One of his great early novels was used for (hopefully the more coherent bits) of the new Pirates of The Caribbean movie (The Stress of her Regard... which is the best Pirate-y thing I've ever read) ... I hope he was handsomely compensated for whatever horrible things they do with that clever story.

when I finish that i may re-read Varley's "Titan" trilogy. Which I haven't re-read since the mid eighties. (read all three at least three times before that.) Cirocco Jones is one of my all time favourite characters in any book anywhere.

It was On Stranger Tides, not The Stress of Her Regard ... and I assume Mr. Powers got a butt-load of pirate loot out of the deal.  ;)

Edit: my fave remains The Anubis Gates.
ah yeah, I stand corrected. Anubis Gates, also awesome.  I read that he apparently has something coming out in 2012. I'm excited.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 25, 2011, 04:51:24 PM
Recent orders to be read when I finish The Wages of Destruction (which is amusingly hilarious at some points and depressing at others) :

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2Fcrimea.jpg&hash=e802dfb010d9b6d7692f2d4ca7ef30b96144a8d9)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2Fchiang.jpg&hash=1135f19b88046e3ce26a7c3d6a78f57d09149290)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 25, 2011, 06:27:28 PM
I heard the 1st one was pretty good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 25, 2011, 07:01:55 PM
Figes is a pretty reliable historian, so I suspect you're right.  Aside from his bizarre episode with the Amazon review fiasco, I've enjoyed all that I've read from him.  A People's Tragedy was excellent, if weighed down by what I felt was minutiae at times and somewhat spotty on details about the Civil War itself.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 27, 2011, 06:52:00 AM
The Last Centurion by John Ringo

Ed's rating: WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST READ?

The book is a mix of my languish posting style, Hans' politics and Siege's over the top GI Jew act.

But the book is free, so I can't complain.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on May 27, 2011, 09:18:44 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 25, 2011, 06:27:28 PM
I heard the 1st one was pretty good.
I liked it. Although it was tough to know who to root for.

Didn't know about the Amazon thing, though. That's pretty shitty.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 27, 2011, 09:36:09 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 27, 2011, 06:52:00 AM
The Last Centurion by John Ringo

Ed's rating: WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST READ?

The book is a mix of my languish posting style, Hans' politics and Siege's over the top GI Jew act.

But the book is free, so I can't complain.

:lol:  Never read a John Ringo book.  Don't plan to.  I do remember he wrote something about raping Georgian women or something.  Something really bizarre.  Most of his stuff is suppose to be Tim level science fiction.  Bleh.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 27, 2011, 09:44:55 AM
I've been meaning to read some of Tim Powers stuff.  I heard good things about Declare.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on May 27, 2011, 10:25:30 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2011, 09:36:09 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 27, 2011, 06:52:00 AM
The Last Centurion by John Ringo

Ed's rating: WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST READ?

The book is a mix of my languish posting style, Hans' politics and Siege's over the top GI Jew act.

But the book is free, so I can't complain.

:lol:  Never read a John Ringo book.  Don't plan to.  I do remember he wrote something about raping Georgian women or something.  Something really bizarre.  Most of his stuff is suppose to be Tim level science fiction.  Bleh.

QuoteGHOST is Ringo's own admitted Lord King Badfic, his id run wild. By his own account, he was trying to write several books he was actually contracted for, but GHOST kept nudging at him, and finally he just wrote the damn thing to *make it go away* so he could get back to fulfilling his contracts. Ringo locked the spewings of his id away on his hard drive, until he mentioned in passing on an online forum that yeah, he'd written another book, but it was *awful* and would never see the light of day. Naturally, folks were curious, and when Ringo posted a sample, nobody was more surprised than him to find that the response was, more often than not, "Hey, man, I'd buy this."

So his publisher put it out, and the books are now doing pretty well for them. I'm sure this is a pleasant surprise if you're Ringo or his publisher, but it's also got to be a little embarrassing; he's committed the literary equivalent of charging money for folks to watch him roll naked in a pile of dead and smelly fish. And then being begged for encores.
http://hradzka.livejournal.com/194753.html
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on May 27, 2011, 10:26:18 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2011, 09:44:55 AM
I've been meaning to read some of Tim Powers stuff.  I heard good things about Declare.

The Drawing of the Dark and Anubis Gates I remember fondly.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on May 27, 2011, 12:17:14 PM
re: Tim Powers... quite enjoying "Three Days To Never"... just about finished. it's a quick read, as Powers really knows how to keep you reading till you physically can't anymore. My only qualm is that the time travel plot isn't a very fresh device. The way it's conceived and plays out though is fresh, clever.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 27, 2011, 01:54:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2011, 09:36:09 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 27, 2011, 06:52:00 AM
The Last Centurion by John Ringo

Ed's rating: WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST READ?

The book is a mix of my languish posting style, Hans' politics and Siege's over the top GI Jew act.

But the book is free, so I can't complain.

:lol:  Never read a John Ringo book.  Don't plan to.  I do remember he wrote something about raping Georgian women or something.  Something really bizarre.  Most of his stuff is suppose to be Tim level science fiction.  Bleh.

I've got those lined up on my jetbook.  :blush:

Baen books: Giving shit away for free.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 27, 2011, 02:10:52 PM
Oh, John Ringo, no.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 27, 2011, 02:47:24 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 27, 2011, 01:54:31 PM


I've got those lined up on my jetbook.  :blush:

Baen books: Giving shit away for free.

Eh, we all need silly bullshit once in a while.  I've been reading Kant and it makes my head hurt.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 27, 2011, 02:50:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2011, 02:47:24 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 27, 2011, 01:54:31 PM


I've got those lined up on my jetbook.  :blush:

Baen books: Giving shit away for free.

Eh, we all need silly bullshit once in a while.  I've been reading Kant and it makes my head hurt.

Lord knows, a bit of reading about the categorical imperative has to be balanced out with a bit of reading about raping Georgian women. That's just simple sense.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 27, 2011, 02:53:23 PM
Exactly.  If Kant raped more women think how better off we'd be.  I imagine German Idealism would be more existing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 27, 2011, 05:11:53 PM
Jerusalem,Jerusalem by James Carroll.

In which our former Catholic priest attempts to describe the history of western civilization and the relationship of all world events to  Jerusalem. It pretty much becomes a 400-page history of everything beginning right at the beginning with atomic molecules to our hunter gatherer ancestors to Abraham's attempted infanticide to Moses and Jesus and those annoying Romans and the Gospel writers and Mohammed and the Infidels and the Crusader Kings and the Pilgrims and the Civil War and WW1 and WW2 and Eichmann and the Cold War and Al Qaeda and 9-11.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on May 27, 2011, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2011, 02:53:23 PM
I imagine German Idealism would be more existing.
:frog:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 29, 2011, 10:29:54 PM
Finally finnished with Nipe's, Last Victory in Russia. A superb study of the german side. This is a pic heavy book and the pics are second to none.

I'm about a third of the way into vol 1 of Glantz's Stalingrad tome(s).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on May 29, 2011, 10:42:35 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 19, 2011, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 19, 2011, 02:30:58 PM
I think Korea accidentally packed up my copy of Tau Zero.  I'd gotten right to the point where it wasn't boring "character" building, too.  I've looked for it like a month, so I don't think it's in the house anymore. :(

I hope you have checked your DVD collection.

Complete, less Return of the King, which I never particularly liked, and was hers anyway.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on May 29, 2011, 11:35:19 PM
I haven't done much reading recently but I just ordered Those Guys Have All the Fun: Inside the World of ESPN (http://www.amazon.com/Those-Guys-Have-All-Fun/dp/0316043001/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306729590&sr=8-1).  I heard an interview with one of the co-authors and am looking forward to reading it.  The authors had ESPN's  reluctant cooperation and interviewed everyone who has had anything to do with ESPN over the last 30 years and the book is supposed to have some really  good stuff; from crazy, racy antics of the on-air staff to the luck and skill it took to take the network from a huge gamble to the worldwide leader.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 30, 2011, 12:16:09 PM
Anyone know any decent histories of Parthians, Kushan Empire, Ancient India or the Han Dynasty?

Not just a chronological account, life and customs of the inhabitants would be most interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 31, 2011, 10:23:59 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2011, 02:47:24 PM
Eh, we all need silly bullshit once in a while.  I've been reading Kant and it makes my head hurt.

I am in a small study group now, plowing our way slowly through Critique of Pure Reason (and Henry Allison's interpretation).  Just got past the Transcendental Deduction, so hopefully downhill from here.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 31, 2011, 10:40:03 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2011, 02:47:24 PM
I've been reading Kant

Any particular reason for this?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 01, 2011, 08:04:00 AM
I just finished Nostromo. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 01, 2011, 06:53:10 PM
I just noticed that Pournelle's kid wrote a sequel to Mote in God's Eye (good stuff) and the Gripping Hand (meh).

http://www.amazon.com/Outies-Mote-Gods-Eye-ebook/dp/B004FGMURG

If I ever get around to it, I'll buy it and give it one of my special reviews.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on June 01, 2011, 07:36:54 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 31, 2011, 10:40:03 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2011, 02:47:24 PM
I've been reading Kant

Any particular reason for this?

Not really.  Philosophy is interesting.  It can also be lucrative.  I bet Minksy can tell you about a certain devotee of Karl Popper who made a fortune in international finance using some of Popper's insights.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 03, 2011, 12:23:33 PM
Red Capitalism: The Fragile Financial Foundation of China's Extraordinary Rise

Two western investment bankers based out of China give a provocative and pessimistic analysis of Chinese financial institutions and economy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Norgy on June 05, 2011, 04:09:14 AM
Don't tell us how it ends!  :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 06, 2011, 09:12:59 AM
Quote from: Norgy on June 05, 2011, 04:09:14 AM
Don't tell us how it ends!  :mad:

No Red wedding, if that is your concern.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 06, 2011, 11:40:40 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 30, 2011, 12:16:09 PM
Anyone know any decent histories of Parthians, Kushan Empire, Ancient India or the Han Dynasty?

Not just a chronological account, life and customs of the inhabitants would be most interesting.

I guess not? :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2011, 11:47:25 AM
The Parthians are really hard because all we know about them comes from their neighbors.  For whatever reasons Persians quit writting things down between the Seleucids and the Sassanids.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on June 06, 2011, 11:49:53 AM
I read a biography of Lady Jane Franklin recently.  Interesting character, if sometimes not particularily lovable.

But Ihad no idea that Sir John Franklin was at one time the governor of Van Dieman's Land (Tasmania - and the name was actually changed at Lady Franklin's insistence).  It got me slightly interested in the history of Australia, since I realized I knew nothing about it of any importance.

Can anyone suggest a book?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 06, 2011, 12:03:47 PM
There was a book that came out to great acclaim a few years back but I can't remember the title for sure.  The Fatal Shore??
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on June 06, 2011, 12:24:09 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 06, 2011, 11:49:53 AM
I read a biography of Lady Jane Franklin recently.  Interesting character, if sometimes not particularily lovable.

But Ihad no idea that Sir John Franklin was at one time the governor of Van Dieman's Land (Tasmania - and the name was actually changed at Lady Franklin's insistence).  It got me slightly interested in the history of Australia, since I realized I knew nothing about it of any importance.

Can anyone suggest a book?

There's some good historical fiction if that's any use -

The Secret River by Kate Granville

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Secret-River-Kate-Grenville/dp/184195828X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1307380789&sr=1-1

Convict and family transported to Oz, gets freedom after a while, comes into conflict with the locals.

English Passengers by Matthew Kneale

http://www.amazon.co.uk/English-Passengers-Matthew-Kneale/dp/0140285210/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1307380907&sr=1-1

English vicar perturbed by new evolutionary theory decides that the Garden of Eden is to be found in Tasmania. Black comedy with disturbing account of ethnic cleansing of Tasmanian aborogines.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on June 06, 2011, 12:34:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 06, 2011, 11:40:40 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 30, 2011, 12:16:09 PM
Anyone know any decent histories of Parthians, Kushan Empire, Ancient India or the Han Dynasty?

Not just a chronological account, life and customs of the inhabitants would be most interesting.

I guess not? :unsure:

The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press has a good general survey series of Ancient China.

I only read The Early Chinese Empires: Qin and Han by Mark Edward Lewis, but found it quite good. Can't speak for the rest of the series, but I plan on getting the remaining books eventually.

For India, I was quite impressed by John Keay's general survey India: A History. His book on China, China: A History was worth it as well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 06, 2011, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 06, 2011, 12:03:47 PM
There was a book that came out to great acclaim a few years back but I can't remember the title for sure.  The Fatal Shore??

Yup.

Plenty of old-fashioned convict-whupping goodness.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 06, 2011, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 06, 2011, 12:34:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 06, 2011, 11:40:40 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 30, 2011, 12:16:09 PM
Anyone know any decent histories of Parthians, Kushan Empire, Ancient India or the Han Dynasty?

Not just a chronological account, life and customs of the inhabitants would be most interesting.

I guess not? :unsure:

The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press has a good general survey series of Ancient China.

I only read The Early Chinese Empires: Qin and Han by Mark Edward Lewis, but found it quite good. Can't speak for the rest of the series, but I plan on getting the remaining books eventually.

For India, I was quite impressed by John Keay's general survey India: A History. His book on China, China: A History was worth it as well.

Thanks. I've seen that India book in a local bookstore - will check it out and probably order the Chinese books. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on June 06, 2011, 02:21:17 PM
Cromwell by John Buchan.  A sort of companion to his shorter life of Montrose.  Fascinating work by a fascinating writer.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on June 08, 2011, 10:13:13 AM
Quote from: Jacob on June 06, 2011, 12:34:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 06, 2011, 11:40:40 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 30, 2011, 12:16:09 PM
Anyone know any decent histories of Parthians, Kushan Empire, Ancient India or the Han Dynasty?

Not just a chronological account, life and customs of the inhabitants would be most interesting.

I guess not? :unsure:

The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press has a good general survey series of Ancient China.

I only read The Early Chinese Empires: Qin and Han by Mark Edward Lewis, but found it quite good. Can't speak for the rest of the series, but I plan on getting the remaining books eventually.

For India, I was quite impressed by John Keay's general survey India: A History. His book on China, China: A History was worth it as well.

The China one was good but I thought there was just too much to cover.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on June 09, 2011, 12:33:13 PM
Reading an old Phillip Kerr book... "A Philosophical Investigation"... fun, kind of quaint actually as it came out in 92 but predicts a 2013 where everyone has "picto-phones" which sound a heck of a lot like iphones/blackberries, and other conveniences taht are fairly similar to the now. The serial killer "Wittgenstein" is well scripted and I'm enjoying the book in the same way I enjoy a good Kinky Friedman, or Elmore Leonard.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on June 09, 2011, 12:35:41 PM
Quote from: Gups on June 08, 2011, 10:13:13 AMThe China one was good but I thought there was just too much to cover.

Yeah, it's definitely a survey work.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: MadImmortalMan on June 14, 2011, 01:23:15 PM
Slaughterhouse Five is on sale for three bucks on the kindle.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on June 14, 2011, 04:44:31 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 14, 2011, 01:23:15 PM
Slaughterhouse Five is on sale for three bucks on the kindle.

The series really went down hill after Slaughterhouse 3.  By SL 4 it's pretty clear Vonnegut no longer knows how he intends to end the story and is just adding new story lines and other useless bloat.  Also he gets statistics from David Irving.  Bleh.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on June 14, 2011, 05:19:25 PM
I have still only gotten around to completely reading one book sofar this year. :gasp:   :blush: to infinity.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on June 14, 2011, 05:38:30 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 14, 2011, 05:19:25 PM
I have still only gotten around to completely reading one book sofar this year. :gasp:   :blush: to infinity.

Yeah...but it's War and Peace, right?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on June 14, 2011, 05:47:08 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 14, 2011, 05:38:30 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 14, 2011, 05:19:25 PM
I have still only gotten around to completely reading one book sofar this year. :gasp:   :blush: to infinity.

Yeah...but it's War and Peace, right?

:D

No one of the Larry Gonick 'cartoon history of the world' books.   :Embarrass: :blush: :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on June 14, 2011, 06:38:05 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 14, 2011, 05:38:30 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 14, 2011, 05:19:25 PM
I have still only gotten around to completely reading one book sofar this year. :gasp:   :blush: to infinity.

Yeah...but it's War and Peace, right?

Not much of an accomplishment.  The book isn't that long.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 14, 2011, 06:40:05 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on June 14, 2011, 06:38:05 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 14, 2011, 05:38:30 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 14, 2011, 05:19:25 PM
I have still only gotten around to completely reading one book sofar this year. :gasp:   :blush: to infinity.

Yeah...but it's War and Peace, right?

Not much of an accomplishment.  The book isn't that long.

It's in Russian. :contract:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 14, 2011, 06:56:25 PM
Just finished reading Annabel by Kathleen Winter. Pretty decent I guess although not as engaging as Middlesex. Parents of the hermaphrodite largely become caricatures as the book progresses - brooding father who stays out in the wilderness; hysterical mother who rots away at home.

Also finished The Farewell Symphony by Edmund White. Fitting end to the autobiographical trilogy.

Still making my way through Game of Thrones and about to start Norman Mailer's Harlot's Ghost.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on June 14, 2011, 08:50:56 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 14, 2011, 05:19:25 PM
I have still only gotten around to completely reading one book sofar this year. :gasp:   :blush: to infinity.

You suck. I think I read 10 so far this year.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on June 14, 2011, 09:40:10 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 14, 2011, 08:50:56 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 14, 2011, 05:19:25 PM
I have still only gotten around to completely reading one book sofar this year. :gasp:   :blush: to infinity.

You suck. I think I read 10 so far this year.

Doctor Seuss doesnt count. ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Slargos on June 17, 2011, 08:10:22 AM
I got those Dresden books as audiobooks. So far I gotta say I am entertained.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Slargos on June 17, 2011, 11:08:58 AM
One objection, though.

If Wizards make "technology" malfunction by their very presence, how is it that he can drive around in a car with no mention of it ever going haywire?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 17, 2011, 11:09:40 AM
Quote from: Slargos on June 17, 2011, 11:08:58 AM
One objection, though.

If Wizards make "technology" malfunction by their very presence, how is it that he can drive around in a car with no mention of it ever going haywire?

Magic!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Slargos on June 17, 2011, 11:12:17 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2011, 11:09:40 AM
Quote from: Slargos on June 17, 2011, 11:08:58 AM
One objection, though.

If Wizards make "technology" malfunction by their very presence, how is it that he can drive around in a car with no mention of it ever going haywire?

Magic!

Why you little...  :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 18, 2011, 12:30:21 AM
Quote from: Slargos on June 17, 2011, 11:08:58 AM
One objection, though.

If Wizards make "technology" malfunction by their very presence, how is it that he can drive around in a car with no mention of it ever going haywire?
Is it an older car? Before, say 1995 there weren't electronics in cars.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on June 18, 2011, 05:56:54 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 18, 2011, 12:30:21 AM
Quote from: Slargos on June 17, 2011, 11:08:58 AM
One objection, though.

If Wizards make "technology" malfunction by their very presence, how is it that he can drive around in a car with no mention of it ever going haywire?
Is it an older car? Before, say 1995 there weren't electronics in cars.

Really?  I've driven cars older then that.  They had electric ignitions, power steering, and radio.  Headlights even! I think I might classify an internal combustion engine as a form of technology.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Slargos on June 18, 2011, 06:19:11 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 18, 2011, 12:30:21 AM
Quote from: Slargos on June 17, 2011, 11:08:58 AM
One objection, though.

If Wizards make "technology" malfunction by their very presence, how is it that he can drive around in a car with no mention of it ever going haywire?
Is it an older car? Before, say 1995 there weren't electronics in cars.

I understand what you're saying, even if Raz's objection holds true in that there's plenty of electronics in a car from 1920 as well. However, the author does note that even simple tech like a revolver is prone to fouling up even if not as regularly. He doesn't ever mention the car going haywire, however, and Dresden doesn't shy away from taking a Taxi and I doubt he can find many 1950s Taxis still running.

The series reads like it's written for uncritical teenagers sometimes.

But minor quibbles aside, it looks like it's got some promise.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 18, 2011, 07:02:27 AM
Quote from: Slargos on June 18, 2011, 06:19:11 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 18, 2011, 12:30:21 AM
Quote from: Slargos on June 17, 2011, 11:08:58 AM
One objection, though.

If Wizards make "technology" malfunction by their very presence, how is it that he can drive around in a car with no mention of it ever going haywire?
Is it an older car? Before, say 1995 there weren't electronics in cars.

I understand what you're saying, even if Raz's objection holds true in that there's plenty of electronics in a car from 1920 as well. However, the author does note that even simple tech like a revolver is prone to fouling up even if not as regularly. He doesn't ever mention the car going haywire, however, and Dresden doesn't shy away from taking a Taxi and I doubt he can find many 1950s Taxis still running.

The series reads like it's written for uncritical teenagers sometimes.

But minor quibbles aside, it looks like it's got some promise.

Inconsistencies like that are the author's way to tell you that it's all just a dream.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 18, 2011, 07:34:32 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 18, 2011, 07:02:27 AM
Inconsistencies like that are the author's way to tell you that it's all just a dream.

You're a dream to me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on June 18, 2011, 01:34:18 PM
Started Eric Idle's novel "Road To Mars". which is the "Borscht Belt" of 25th century stand up Comedy. Witty stuff that reads very Python. Very. I could easily see the troupe in their heyday making a funny SF Python movie. There isn't anyone of of that calibre in modern comedy that could do this kind of thing justice.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 27, 2011, 10:53:01 PM
QuoteBLOOD, STEEL, MYTH: The II.SS-Panzer-Korps and the Road to Prochorowka [Hardcover]
George Nipe Jr. (Author)
Be the first to review this item | Like 1309232565 false -1 16 16 15 (16)
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Available from these sellers.
1 new from $198.85 

Are you fucking kidding me?? This hasnt even come out yet. :lmfao:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 27, 2011, 11:07:18 PM
Taking a slight respite from my recently bout of chronic Rushdie-worship, I quickly devoured The Solitude of Prime Numbers by Paolo Giordano.  A lovely little novel, very touching and the author, a mathematician with a PhD in particle physics, writes like one: elegantly sparse, base, allowing you to see the complexity in its own simple intimacy.

Unfortunately, it also strikes me as the kind of novel that could launch a loosely-based independent film that would destroy its center.

Now, it's off to Titus Andronicus and the 2011 Pushcart Prize anthology.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on June 28, 2011, 01:51:01 AM
CdM,

Have you read any of Rushie's latest and if so has he returned to form? Used to be my favourite modern writer but I kind of gave up after Ground Beneath Her Feet and Shalamar the Clown
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 28, 2011, 05:12:57 AM
He's taken a change in tack with works like Haroun and Luka as fairy tales for adults, and while there's a noticable drop in the expository, I think it lends to a more focused, tighter style.  It fits him, despite its lack of sprawl.  He still does his wonders with the English language, though.

You didn't like Shalimar? I thought it was wonderful.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Octavian on June 28, 2011, 06:29:31 AM
Currently reading a book about the history of the sword and the first volume of Masters of the Sea series which takes place during the first Punic war on a trireme. I thus continue my Roman themed historical novels reading habit after the completion of the Emperor series books.

All of the above are read on my Kindle.



Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 01, 2011, 12:28:00 PM
I've started reading Stephen King's Dark Tower series. More than halfway through book 1. Good stuff so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 02, 2011, 05:44:19 AM
Finished Platoon Leader: A Memoir Of Command In Combat by McDonough. Very nice little book. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2011, 07:33:47 AM
Quote from: The Brain on July 02, 2011, 05:44:19 AM
Finished Platoon Leader: A Memoir Of Command In Combat by McDonough. Very nice little book. :)

Which war?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 02, 2011, 07:37:36 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2011, 07:33:47 AM
Quote from: The Brain on July 02, 2011, 05:44:19 AM
Finished Platoon Leader: A Memoir Of Command In Combat by McDonough. Very nice little book. :)

Which war?

Vietnam, 1970. A platoon protecting a strategic hamlet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on July 02, 2011, 08:26:38 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 01, 2011, 12:28:00 PM
I've started reading Stephen King's Dark Tower series. More than halfway through book 1. Good stuff so far.

Couldn't make much headway on that.  I got to the third book.  The writing is good, but the problem is that Roland is not a very compelling or even likeable character.  Everyone else is interesting, just not Roland.  Other characters sort of allude to this calling him "single minded" and the like.  That might just be a personal thing though.  YMMV.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on July 06, 2011, 07:08:08 PM
Taking a break from the Eastern Front.

Reading Henderson's "Stonewall Jackson and the Civil War"

Ordered
DAY OF BATTLE: Mars-La-Tour-David Ascoli
The Reason Why: The Story of the Fatal Charge of the Light Brigade-Cecil Woodham-Smith
Gettysburg--The First Day (Civil War America)-Harry W. Pfanz
Gettysburg--The Second Day-Harry W. Pfanz
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 10, 2011, 11:17:55 PM
Looks interesting

http://www.amazon.com/World-Fire-Britains-Crucial-American/dp/037550494X
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on July 11, 2011, 01:17:19 AM
Halfway through, "The Reason Why"

James Brudenell (Earl of Cardigan) and George Bingham (Earl of Lucan) are class "A" douche bags. Shining examples of the Purchase System. Havent even got to the Crimean War yet. Bingham is over in Ireland fucking up the Irish.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 09, 2011, 10:45:42 PM
Finnished with "The Reason Why"-recommended


2/3 of the way through "Gettysburg--The First Day (Civil War America)"-Harry W. Pfanz.
Great book very detailed on the first day of battle.

Will probably take a break and spin off to read "The Origin Map" by Brophy


Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 09, 2011, 10:55:00 PM
I think I might order that Reason Why.  It's piqued my interest.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 09, 2011, 11:19:22 PM
I will let you know that it goes into extensive details on the backgrounds, personalities and antics of James Brudenell (Earl of Cardigan) and George Bingham (Earl of Lucan) before the Crimea. Only a quater of the book deals with the Crimea.

Both were class "A" douche bags.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on August 10, 2011, 12:31:57 AM
halfway through Cornwell's "Stonehenge" pretty decent if a bit sloggy at first.

Thinking about going back to re-read Varley's "Gaia" Trilogy.  ahh space lesbians.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 16, 2011, 10:45:31 AM
Finally tracked down a normal history of the Sengoku period (instead of the endless Stephen Turnbull crap): A History of Japan 1334-1615 by George Sansom. Apparently this 50 y/o book is still the best available in English, which is a bit sad.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 16, 2011, 10:47:21 AM
Ordered a book from Amazon about the battle of Mortain which came recommended when I was looking up stuff on US artillery doctrines in WWII.  39 cents.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 16, 2011, 10:48:34 AM
I'm not into hip-hop.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on August 16, 2011, 11:19:55 AM
finished Cornwell's "Stonehenge" decent read if a bit bloated. started re-reading John Varley's "Gaea" trilogy for the first time in 20 years (read it all at least twice back in tha day when I had the SF book club editions of those books.)

a bit quaint the tech, by today's standards, but Varley is a master of sucking you into the story. holds up so far at least.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on August 16, 2011, 11:32:00 AM
Finished the first of the Maters of Rome series by thingy Mcsomeone. It was OK. Seemed to have done an impressive amount of research but the prose was a bit crap.

Just started Memories of a Geisha and Twirlymen (history of spin bowling in cricket, v.good)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 16, 2011, 12:52:47 PM
In addition to The French Foreign Legion (Crouch) I read Inside the Third Reich by Speer. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 16, 2011, 01:26:59 PM
Reading Jay Taylor's The Generalissimo at the moment.  Good read so far.  Joe Stillwell's a giant dick and not much of a commander.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 16, 2011, 02:02:03 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 16, 2011, 01:26:59 PM
Reading Jay Taylor's The Generalissimo at the moment.  Good read so far.  Joe Stillwell's a giant dick and not much of a commander.

Looks interesting - an admiring portrait of Chiang Kai-shek. Runs counter to everything I've read about the man, though - most sources portray him as thoroughly inept and corrupt. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on August 16, 2011, 03:56:00 PM
Just finished A History of Scotland, by Neil Oliver.  Certainly lighter historical fair then much of what is mentioned here, but I enjoyed it as a good read while commuting.  I could certainly have done without the geologic history of Scotland (:rolleyes:), and the knob-polishing of William Wallace was to be expected, the author does gain bonus points for pointing out some of the contradictions inherent in scottish nationalism and its victimization complex, and does interestingly go at great lengths to explain how Scotland profitted from slavery.

If you want to cover several thousand years (or billions even) in 450 pages, it wasn't a bad way to do it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on August 16, 2011, 04:07:28 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 16, 2011, 01:26:59 PM
Reading Jay Taylor's The Generalissimo at the moment.  Good read so far.  Joe Stillwell's a giant dick and not much of a commander.

Stillwell just wanted to watch Dumbo without being interrupted.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on August 16, 2011, 04:31:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 16, 2011, 03:56:00 PM
Just finished A History of Scotland, by Neil Oliver.  Certainly lighter historical fair then much of what is mentioned here,

Only on this forum would a book entitled A History of Scotland be considered "light fare"
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 17, 2011, 10:43:32 PM
Finnished with, Gettysburg--The First Day (Civil War America)-Harry W. Pfanz.

Nice detailed tactical account of the first day. His and Glantz styles are similar, which I prefer. Be warned this is a tactical acount.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 17, 2011, 11:06:02 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 16, 2011, 02:02:03 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 16, 2011, 01:26:59 PM
Reading Jay Taylor's The Generalissimo at the moment.  Good read so far.  Joe Stillwell's a giant dick and not much of a commander.

Looks interesting - an admiring portrait of Chiang Kai-shek. Runs counter to everything I've read about the man, though - most sources portray him as thoroughly inept and corrupt.

I don't think he was inept, but he had any army that was very poorly equipped, unreliable, and unmotivated.  He did fairly well in the 1920's (when he had soviet advisers and Chinese enemies).  I remember reading that in those warlord armies only 10-20% could be really expected to fight.   I mean you had soldiers armed only with medieval weapons who weren't even given shoes (they were given the material to make sandals).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 30, 2011, 04:52:40 PM
Read the latest Captain Alatriste book by Perez-Reverte (in translation): Pirates of the Levant. I'm very satisfied.  Plenty of swash and not lacking in buckle, all with the same grim noirish realism we have come to know and love from this series.

[For those who have not checked this series out yet, it's historical fiction about the days of the decline of the Spanish Empire (originally written in Spanish - it is amusing seeing the English portrayed from the Spanish POV!). It's about a middle-aged down-on-his-luck Spanish solder-mercenary-cut-throat with a paradoxical sense of honour, and his relationship with his protige (the narrator, at the start a young boy) who falls in love with a sadistic aristocratic girl who delights in tormenting and manipulating him ... needless to say they get involved in all sorts of trouble, as the Spanish empire they are sworn to defend rots from without and within around them].
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on August 30, 2011, 05:07:35 PM
Reading South: The Endurance Expedition by Ernest Shackleton.  Yes, that Ernest Shackleton.

I've read several books on arctic exploration, but this is the first first-hand account - and I must say it really adds a certain thrill to have it not written by some dispassionate historian 100 years later, but by soemone who survived that very ordeal.

Interestingly - it's a cheap-o Penguin reprint (originally having been published in 1919, it's almost certainly gone into the public domain).  But the front of the book does read "New York Times Bestseller" - I do wonder if that was the Penguin edition, or back in 1919. :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on August 31, 2011, 03:38:03 AM
Just finished the last of the Abercrombie trilogy. Pretty good although it got repetitive by the end.

I'm now sated with fantasy, having read 5 this year.  When all''s said and done it's not that satisfying. I'll have a couple of years off now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pedrito on August 31, 2011, 05:09:49 AM
Tomorrow in Italy a law will be enacted that will ban discounts over -15% on books, so Amazon.it is doing a megasale applying -40% on over 200.000 books, ending tonight.

I just ordered them more than 300 euros of books  :blush: I should be ok until Christmas at least.

L.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 01, 2011, 08:26:01 PM
Brown Truck arrived with

Hells Gate
III Pz Korps at Kursk
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Archy on September 02, 2011, 01:30:21 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 30, 2011, 04:52:40 PM
Read the latest Captain Alatriste book by Perez-Reverte (in translation): Pirates of the Levant. I'm very satisfied.  Plenty of swash and not lacking in buckle, all with the same grim noirish realism we have come to know and love from this series.

[For those who have not checked this series out yet, it's historical fiction about the days of the decline of the Spanish Empire (originally written in Spanish - it is amusing seeing the English portrayed from the Spanish POV!). It's about a middle-aged down-on-his-luck Spanish solder-mercenary-cut-throat with a paradoxical sense of honour, and his relationship with his protige (the narrator, at the start a young boy) who falls in love with a sadistic aristocratic girl who delights in tormenting and manipulating him ... needless to say they get involved in all sorts of trouble, as the Spanish empire they are sworn to defend rots from without and within around them].
Indeed great series, is also strange seeing the Spanish POV on the war in the Netherlands  :cool:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on September 02, 2011, 01:31:36 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on August 31, 2011, 05:09:49 AM
Tomorrow in Italy a law will be enacted that will ban discounts over -15% on books,

What an enormously stupid law.

Oh, right.

Italy.

:(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 02, 2011, 01:35:50 PM
France does something similar.  I imagine a few other Euros do the same thing.  :yuk:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 02, 2011, 01:44:12 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on August 31, 2011, 05:09:49 AM
Tomorrow in Italy a law will be enacted that will ban discounts over -15% on books,


lolwut
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on September 02, 2011, 01:55:33 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on August 31, 2011, 05:09:49 AM
Tomorrow in Italy a law will be enacted that will ban discounts over -15% on books, so Amazon.it is doing a megasale applying -40% on over 200.000 books, ending tonight.

I just ordered them more than 300 euros of books  :blush: I should be ok until Christmas at least.

L.

What are they trying to accomplish with that law?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 02, 2011, 02:22:30 PM
Kickbacks from the publishing industry?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on September 02, 2011, 05:48:13 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on August 31, 2011, 05:09:49 AM
Tomorrow in Italy a law will be enacted that will ban discounts over -15% on books, so Amazon.it is doing a megasale applying -40% on over 200.000 books, ending tonight.

I just ordered them more than 300 euros of books  :blush: I should be ok until Christmas at least.

L.

Damn.  I ordered a 39 cent book last month from Amazon.  What an asinine law.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 02, 2011, 11:10:49 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 02, 2011, 01:35:50 PM
France does something similar.  I imagine a few other Euros do the same thing.  :yuk:

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_Book_Price_Agreement for reference.

There's a reason why it's often a lot cheaper to get an English book vs. a German one - German books don't go on sale. These fixed prices also apply to e-books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 03, 2011, 02:58:48 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 02, 2011, 11:10:49 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 02, 2011, 01:35:50 PM
France does something similar.  I imagine a few other Euros do the same thing.  :yuk:

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_Book_Price_Agreement for reference.



:bleeding: :bleeding: :bleeding: WTF
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 03, 2011, 03:15:39 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on August 31, 2011, 05:09:49 AM
Tomorrow in Italy a law will be enacted that will ban discounts over -15% on books, so Amazon.it is doing a megasale applying -40% on over 200.000 books, ending tonight.

I just ordered them more than 300 euros of books  :blush: I should be ok until Christmas at least.

L.
Why? And how can that even be legal. :blink:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 03, 2011, 03:24:16 AM
When Amazon started out in Germany they would often give out book vouchers e.g. for christmas. They had to stop that practice, because these were deemed illegal rebates on books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pedrito on September 03, 2011, 07:10:03 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 02, 2011, 01:31:36 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on August 31, 2011, 05:09:49 AM
Tomorrow in Italy a law will be enacted that will ban discounts over -15% on books,

What an enormously stupid law.

Oh, right.

Italy.

Europe

:(
FYP

France and Germany did this for years.

Enormously stupid, I confirm.

L.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on September 03, 2011, 07:19:03 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 03, 2011, 03:15:39 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on August 31, 2011, 05:09:49 AM
Tomorrow in Italy a law will be enacted that will ban discounts over -15% on books, so Amazon.it is doing a megasale applying -40% on over 200.000 books, ending tonight.

I just ordered them more than 300 euros of books  :blush: I should be ok until Christmas at least.

L.
Why? And how can that even be legal. :blink:
In order to defeat chain bookstores.  Mind you, in the age of the internet, I don't think it's that important.  Still, pretty much every country of imporantce in Europe except the UK does it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on September 04, 2011, 04:54:42 PM
in the middle of the middle book of Varley's "Gaea" trilogy - Wizard. I'd forgotten almost all of this one. good quick read kind of SF with nits of sexy, bits of weird, bits of Science all mashed together nicely.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 06, 2011, 08:46:47 AM
Reading Hagakure by Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on September 06, 2011, 09:48:20 AM
Rereading With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa, good book, and a remarkable tension in the author (forty years later) that always strikes me.  Okinawa especially becomes a hell in this book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 06, 2011, 09:48:58 AM
Quote from: PDH on September 06, 2011, 09:48:20 AM
Rereading With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa, good book, and a remarkable tension in the author (forty years later) that always strikes me.  Okinawa especially becomes a hell in this book.

Good choice, excellent book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 10, 2011, 03:32:11 AM
Reread "Congo Mercenary" by Mike Hoare. About his actions in the '64 Congo Crisis. Been two decades or so since the last read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on September 10, 2011, 09:40:49 AM
Anyone read any good sci-fi lately?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Octavian on September 10, 2011, 12:29:12 PM
Currently reading a book about Vegas and the mob. It's mostly a collection of various stories and anecdotes but still interesting. I especially like the story of the two dumb Tony's who, while driving to Los Angeles in order to work for Mickey Cohen, decided to stop by Vegas and rob the Flamingo. This at a time when it was controlled by Meyer Lansky and Frank Costello among others.

The two dumb Tony's got away with 3000 $. And were later found in Los Angeles shot several times in the face.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gaijin de Moscu on September 10, 2011, 04:41:21 PM
If anyone's into Historical Fantasy / Aztecs, drop me a pm with your email and I'll be happy to gift you my book on Amazon for free.

It's cheap now, but I'll increase the price soon.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on September 10, 2011, 06:07:24 PM
Read most of the Marquis de Sade's "120 Days of Sodom."  Goodness me.  :mellow:

My favorite passage was from the editors' foreword, though, and one I find very moving: "... as a judge, and to his mortal peril, [the Marquis de Sade] declined to sentence members of the opposition to death, explaining that while one might commit crimes for the sake of pleasure, it was not among his principles to murder in the name of justice."   :sleep:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 10, 2011, 06:08:54 PM
Haven't read any Sade. Like reading about taking a dump.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on September 10, 2011, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 10, 2011, 06:08:54 PM
Haven't read any Sade. Like reading about taking a dump into a kidnapped child's mouth.

FYPFY, but that is basically it.  Kind of mesmerizing in its own way, though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 10, 2011, 06:52:57 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on September 10, 2011, 06:14:21 PM
Kind of mesmerizing in its own way, though.

Yeah, he's kind of trippy.  I find it difficult to believe the argument that he was a political philosopher, though.

Sorta hard to see a daughter's dildoing her mother and sewing up her labia as a compelling argument of natural law as a counterweight to church doctrine.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on September 10, 2011, 07:00:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 10, 2011, 06:52:57 PM
Sorta hard to see a daughter's dildoing her mother and sewing up her labia as a compelling argument of natural law as a counterweight to church doctrine.

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Zoupa on September 10, 2011, 07:13:28 PM
My parent's house in France looks out on Sade's castle.  Sad to say it's a crumbled pile nowadays.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on September 10, 2011, 08:04:08 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 10, 2011, 06:52:57 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on September 10, 2011, 06:14:21 PM
Kind of mesmerizing in its own way, though.

Yeah, he's kind of trippy.  I find it difficult to believe the argument that he was a political philosopher, though.

Sorta hard to see a daughter's dildoing her mother and sewing up her labia as a compelling argument of natural law as a counterweight to church doctrine.

Yeah, since he was known to have torture and raped his own servants, I don't think he was writing to test the limits of acceptable human behavior.  He just wrote about the kind of things he liked to do.  Since he also wrote about murder, and considering that he acted or tried to act on his other fantasies I think there's a strong possibility that he was also a serial killer.  I don't think there's any direct evidence of that, but serial killers are hard to find, and if a prostitute was found strangled in a ditch somewhere nobody would have cared much in those days.  The Guy was the 18th century version of the BTK serial killer.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Lettow77 on September 11, 2011, 09:46:05 PM
 The Makioka Sisters. Getting my literary dose of Ara Ara~

Then it's on to Crysanthemum and the Sword, which is my favourite kind of book.

I haven't read in awhile because i've been ingesting culture through alternative means. Excited to be back into it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 12, 2011, 03:51:20 AM
I'm reading a brand new Swedish book about the 1,000+ year history of Swedes east of the Baltic. Obviously it's not news to me that it existed but it's interesting to read details about for instance the history of the city of Viborg. Founded by Sweden in the 13th century, within the borders of Sweden until 1710 (officially 1721), and with a big and important Swedish community until WW2. After WW2 obviously all Swedes and Finns had left. I came through Viborg in 1991 and it sure was a sorry sight. Russians cannot into good.

If anyone's interested it's Den glömda historien by John Chrispinsson.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 12, 2011, 08:34:41 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on September 10, 2011, 07:13:28 PM
My parent's house in France looks out on Sade's castle.  Sad to say it's a crumbled pile nowadays.

Too bad, it would make an excellent site for an upscale hotel.

"I'm staying in the Sade's castle tonight ... ".  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on September 13, 2011, 07:04:34 PM
Going on a Le Carre binge before the release of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy (:mmm:). 

It's a good binge.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on September 13, 2011, 07:07:41 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 12, 2011, 08:34:41 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on September 10, 2011, 07:13:28 PM
My parent's house in France looks out on Sade's castle.  Sad to say it's a crumbled pile nowadays.

Too bad, it would make an excellent site for an upscale hotel.

"I'm staying in the Sade's castle tonight ... ".  :D

I'd go.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on October 05, 2011, 09:51:55 AM
Going to tackle Zamulin's Prokhorovka tome.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 05, 2011, 12:28:16 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 16, 2011, 03:56:00 PM
Just finished A History of Scotland, by Neil Oliver.  Certainly lighter historical fair then much of what is mentioned here, but I enjoyed it as a good read while commuting.  I could certainly have done without the geologic history of Scotland (:rolleyes:), and the knob-polishing of William Wallace was to be expected, the author does gain bonus points for pointing out some of the contradictions inherent in scottish nationalism and its victimization complex, and does interestingly go at great lengths to explain how Scotland profitted from slavery.

If you want to cover several thousand years (or billions even) in 450 pages, it wasn't a bad way to do it.

The geology section was great!  I loved how he explained that historians are often criticized for not going back far enough in time so he was starting at the very beginning.  I thought it was a good humorous jab.

You should also see his BBC series on the History of Scotland. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on October 05, 2011, 01:39:29 PM
Drood by Dan Simmons.

In his previous book, Terror, he fictionalized the end days of the Franklin Expedition. In this one, he fictionalizes the last decade or so in the life of Charles Dickens. Despite what that sounds like, it does end up being an amazing horror novel with an unreliable narrator, drug-induced hallucinations, ghosts, a criminal underworld and all sorts of things. Quite intersting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on October 05, 2011, 11:24:09 PM
Finally finished up The Generalissimo, which was a thoroughly excellent read.  Don't know why I plodded through it, to be honest.  Too busy with World of Tanks, most likely.   :blush:

Now off to Richard Miles' Carthage Must Be Destroyed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on October 13, 2011, 09:55:00 AM
I'm halfway through Chandler's The Big Sleep. Classic noir, and much better than I expected.

The similarities with the first few books of the Dresden Files is astounding. I knew Jim Butcher was inspired by noir, but didn't realize just how much so.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 07, 2011, 10:03:53 PM
I finished The Honourable Schoolboy.  I think there must be a German word to describe the feeling you get when you reach the end of a Le Carre novel.  It's a sort of melancholic satisfaction.  But a good book, hopefully they adapt this one next.  The BBC never had the budget when doing 70s Smiley.

I've also just started C V Wedgwood's history of the Thirty Years War.  I've never read a book on the war and wanted to fix that.  Ta-Nehisi Coates gave this a few rave reviews on his blog and rightly so.  The writing's superb.  This is one of those history books that I think are worth reading for style alone and I love the sense of the past weighing her down as she writes this.  The version I've got was updated in the 60s but this was first written in the 30s and that really does come across.  It's a beautiful book so far - I'm only a couple of hundred pages in, but I chewed through them over the past day or two.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on November 13, 2011, 09:06:34 PM
Anyone read any good fantasy recently? Is Daniel Abraham's The Dragon's Path any good?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 14, 2011, 04:15:39 PM
Just learned while reading a review in The Atlantic that le Carre introduced the words mole (meaning a double spy) and honey trap into the English language.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Slargos on November 14, 2011, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: Kleves on November 13, 2011, 09:06:34 PM
Anyone read any good fantasy recently? Is Daniel Abraham's The Dragon's Path any good?

This. :contract:

I'm currently getting into a reading mood again, after a hiatus of a few months (or to be perfectly honest, more like a year) and I need some good suggestions for either Fantasy or Sci-fi. I'm waiting impatiently for Sanderson and I need something to cover the vast gap until he squirts something out again.

Oh, and if you haven't yet, do check Sanderson out. Mistborn was great, and Stormlight has tremendous potential.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2011, 04:37:13 PM
Just about finished reading Descent into Madness: The Diary of a Killer by Vernon Frolick.

http://www.amazon.com/Descent-Into-Madness-Diary-Killer/dp/B000WLZLQ0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1321306054&sr=8-5

Not sure how wide a distribution this ever received, though my copy says it is a fourth edition.  I picked this one up in the really good Whitehorse book store, but forgot about it until recently.

Anyways it's the story of Michael Oros, a US draft dodger who flees out into the wilderness of northern BC and survives there for over a decade.  I see that one of the Amazon reviews draws the comparison to Into The Wild - except of course this guy could actually survive in the wilderness.

He was also, of course, quite thoroughly mad.  Classic paranoid schizophrenic.  The guy kept detailed journals throughout the entire period, but of course they mostly just described his delusions of being bersecuted by Them, the Torture-Druggers and sneakarounds.

The guy killed a german trapper because his fingernails were too clean.  Police actually went in and were able to arrest him, but they never had enough evidence to charge him with murder.  However that episode just re-inforced his paranoia, so when he broke into someone's cabin to live in for the winter, and when the police went out to arrest him, an RCMP officer was shot and killed before Oros himself was killed.

This happened in the early 80s so long enough ago that I don't know any of the people involved (though obviously it's filled with various police and prosecutors from northern BC / Yukon), but it describes the kinds of people I know well, and areas I know well.

It's been quite enjoyable.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 14, 2011, 04:57:51 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2011, 04:37:13 PM
Just about finished reading Descent into Madness: The Diary of a Killer by Vernon Frolick.

http://www.amazon.com/Descent-Into-Madness-Diary-Killer/dp/B000WLZLQ0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1321306054&sr=8-5

Not sure how wide a distribution this ever received, though my copy says it is a fourth edition.  I picked this one up in the really good Whitehorse book store, but forgot about it until recently.

Anyways it's the story of Michael Oros, a US draft dodger who flees out into the wilderness of northern BC and survives there for over a decade.  I see that one of the Amazon reviews draws the comparison to Into The Wild - except of course this guy could actually survive in the wilderness.

He was also, of course, quite thoroughly mad.  Classic paranoid schizophrenic.  The guy kept detailed journals throughout the entire period, but of course they mostly just described his delusions of being bersecuted by Them, the Torture-Druggers and sneakarounds.

The guy killed a german trapper because his fingernails were too clean.  Police actually went in and were able to arrest him, but they never had enough evidence to charge him with murder.  However that episode just re-inforced his paranoia, so when he broke into someone's cabin to live in for the winter, and when the police went out to arrest him, an RCMP officer was shot and killed before Oros himself was killed.

This happened in the early 80s so long enough ago that I don't know any of the people involved (though obviously it's filled with various police and prosecutors from northern BC / Yukon), but it describes the kinds of people I know well, and areas I know well.

It's been quite enjoyable.

Sorta reminds me of a modern version of the Mad Trapper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Johnson_(criminal)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2011, 05:04:54 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 14, 2011, 04:57:51 PM
Sorta reminds me of a modern version of the Mad Trapper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Johnson_(criminal)

A comparison that was not lost on the RCMP at the time.  There were several comments that this was the first wilderness manhunt the force had undertaken since the Mad Trapper.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 04, 2011, 11:10:08 AM
Finally

http://www.amazon.com/BLOOD-STEEL-MYTH-II-SS-Panzer-Korps-Prochorowka/dp/0974838942/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1323014880&sr=8-18
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on December 04, 2011, 02:49:06 PM
Quote from: Slargos on November 14, 2011, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: Kleves on November 13, 2011, 09:06:34 PM
Anyone read any good fantasy recently? Is Daniel Abraham's The Dragon's Path any good?

This. :contract:

I'm currently getting into a reading mood again, after a hiatus of a few months (or to be perfectly honest, more like a year) and I need some good suggestions for either Fantasy or Sci-fi. I'm waiting impatiently for Sanderson and I need something to cover the vast gap until he squirts something out again.

Oh, and if you haven't yet, do check Sanderson out. Mistborn was great, and Stormlight has tremendous potential.
Patrick Rothfuss, if you haven't already read him already.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on December 04, 2011, 04:50:24 PM
Quote from: Slargos on November 14, 2011, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: Kleves on November 13, 2011, 09:06:34 PM
Anyone read any good fantasy recently? Is Daniel Abraham's The Dragon's Path any good?

This. :contract:

I'm currently getting into a reading mood again, after a hiatus of a few months (or to be perfectly honest, more like a year) and I need some good suggestions for either Fantasy or Sci-fi. I'm waiting impatiently for Sanderson and I need something to cover the vast gap until he squirts something out again.

Oh, and if you haven't yet, do check Sanderson out. Mistborn was great, and Stormlight has tremendous potential.

Watch on the Rhine by Kratman. Not really good, but you'll like it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2011, 05:18:08 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 14, 2011, 04:15:39 PM
Just learned while reading a review in The Atlantic that le Carre introduced the words mole (meaning a double spy) and honey trap into the English language.

It will be a tremendous loss to English language fiction when he finally goes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Slargos on December 04, 2011, 05:18:21 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 04, 2011, 04:50:24 PM
Quote from: Slargos on November 14, 2011, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: Kleves on November 13, 2011, 09:06:34 PM
Anyone read any good fantasy recently? Is Daniel Abraham's The Dragon's Path any good?

This. :contract:

I'm currently getting into a reading mood again, after a hiatus of a few months (or to be perfectly honest, more like a year) and I need some good suggestions for either Fantasy or Sci-fi. I'm waiting impatiently for Sanderson and I need something to cover the vast gap until he squirts something out again.

Oh, and if you haven't yet, do check Sanderson out. Mistborn was great, and Stormlight has tremendous potential.

Watch on the Rhine by Kratman. Not really good, but you'll like it.

Meh. I thought it was ok.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Slargos on December 04, 2011, 05:23:32 PM
Quote from: Scipio on December 04, 2011, 02:49:06 PM
Quote from: Slargos on November 14, 2011, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: Kleves on November 13, 2011, 09:06:34 PM
Anyone read any good fantasy recently? Is Daniel Abraham's The Dragon's Path any good?

This. :contract:

I'm currently getting into a reading mood again, after a hiatus of a few months (or to be perfectly honest, more like a year) and I need some good suggestions for either Fantasy or Sci-fi. I'm waiting impatiently for Sanderson and I need something to cover the vast gap until he squirts something out again.

Oh, and if you haven't yet, do check Sanderson out. Mistborn was great, and Stormlight has tremendous potential.
Patrick Rothfuss, if you haven't already read him already.

Rothfuss looks like a hilarious fat guy, and despite the fact that the premise for the book sounds unappealing, his chubby cheeks scream to me "Read it!"

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on December 04, 2011, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: Slargos on December 04, 2011, 05:23:32 PM
Quote from: Scipio on December 04, 2011, 02:49:06 PM
Quote from: Slargos on November 14, 2011, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: Kleves on November 13, 2011, 09:06:34 PM
Anyone read any good fantasy recently? Is Daniel Abraham's The Dragon's Path any good?

This. :contract:

I'm currently getting into a reading mood again, after a hiatus of a few months (or to be perfectly honest, more like a year) and I need some good suggestions for either Fantasy or Sci-fi. I'm waiting impatiently for Sanderson and I need something to cover the vast gap until he squirts something out again.

Oh, and if you haven't yet, do check Sanderson out. Mistborn was great, and Stormlight has tremendous potential.
Patrick Rothfuss, if you haven't already read him already.

Rothfuss looks like a hilarious fat guy, and despite the fact that the premise for the book sounds unappealing, his chubby cheeks scream to me "Read it!"
The main character is an unapologetic Marty Stu, and it reeks of Tolkienian juvenalia, but it's unaccountably readable and naturalistic.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on December 09, 2011, 07:31:22 PM
This is possibly only of interest to Wags:

Paranoia novels:

http://ultravioletbooks.com/

I'm sure they will suck.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 12, 2011, 06:50:21 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 04, 2011, 11:10:08 AM
Finally

http://www.amazon.com/BLOOD-STEEL-MYTH-II-SS-Panzer-Korps-Prochorowka/dp/0974838942/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1323014880&sr=8-18

Photos are superb and an ass load of them. Book is simular in format and detail to his book "Last Panzer Victory". Nipe is in the camp that advocates that Hoth's redirction of II SS Pz Corps towards Prokhorovka was not planned. 8.5/10
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 12, 2011, 12:02:59 PM
I'm reading Pyrrhic Victory, about French strategy and operations in WW1.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on December 12, 2011, 01:44:47 PM
on a lark I picked up a used copy of the King/Bachmann book: The Regulators. A good airplane-y kind of read. A bit predictable, but I'm almost done, so I guess it ain't that bad or I'd have moved on.

On the shelf to be read this winter... The rest of Cornwell's Alfred the Great series, The Stars My Destination (re-read after 20+ years), "Claw & Shadow" which I read so long ago, it was two books :p (Shadow Of The Torturer, Claw of The Conciliator), some Steven Berkhoff (On Food), some Vernor Vinge, Connie Willis, and a few others.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on December 12, 2011, 02:04:26 PM
Metric fuckton of old Legion of Super-Heroes comics.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on December 12, 2011, 02:09:35 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on December 12, 2011, 01:44:47 PM
on a lark I picked up a used copy of the King/Bachmann book: The Regulators. A good airplane-y kind of read. A bit predictable, but I'm almost done, so I guess it ain't that bad or I'd have moved on.

On the shelf to be read this winter... The rest of Cornwell's Alfred the Great series, The Stars My Destination (re-read after 20+ years), "Claw & Shadow" which I read so long ago, it was two books :p (Shadow Of The Torturer, Claw of The Conciliator), some Steven Berkhoff (On Food), some Vernor Vinge, Connie Willis, and a few others.

The Regulators turned me off King for good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 13, 2011, 01:14:00 AM
I've started re-reading Timothy Zahn's Thrawn trilogy. I last read it when it originally came out. So with the prequels and all, the scenes on Coruscant now look radically different in my head, along with a few other things.

What's I find really grating, though, is Zahn's dialogue. Characters hardly ever just say anything. Instead the call, comment, conclude, interrupt, nod, agree, disagree . . .

When they do say something, it's either with an adverb (calmly, excitedly, sardonically, conversationally) or a description of their voice (Mara said, her voice cold) or while doing something (he said, picking up another piece/reaching for his gun etc.). There's only a handful of plain, simple "he said/she said" or dialogues with just beats inserted into them.

It's really rather comedic to me when you pay attention to it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on December 13, 2011, 01:27:28 AM
I know the vast majority of people hate that, but I sort of like it.  Maybe it's because I like comics and movies better than books, and that sort of visual or emotional information is already (albeit more seamlessly) embedded in those media.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 13, 2011, 01:32:37 AM
Yes, but I think you can show this also through character's actions and reactions and don't have to fall back on lazy telling.

But perhaps that's just me. I equally dislike the excessive use of the -ing to describe when a charecter does something parallel to another action ("Drinking his coffee, he surfed the internet."), or worse, with "as" added ("Sitting in his chair as he drank his coffee, he surfed the internet.")

Just my personal preferance.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on December 13, 2011, 01:43:18 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 13, 2011, 01:14:00 AM
I've started re-reading Timothy Zahn's Thrawn trilogy. I last read it when it originally came out. So with the prequels and all, the scenes on Coruscant now look radically different in my head, along with a few other things.

What's I find really grating, though, is Zahn's dialogue. Characters hardly ever just say anything. Instead the call, comment, conclude, interrupt, nod, agree, disagree . . .

When they do say something, it's either with an adverb (calmly, excitedly, sardonically, conversationally) or a description of their voice (Mara said, her voice cold) or while doing something (he said, picking up another piece/reaching for his gun etc.). There's only a handful of plain, simple "he said/she said" or dialogues with just beats inserted into them.

It's really rather comedic to me when you pay attention to it.
I loved those when they first came out, but looking back I'm pretty sure it was solely because it was all that was out there other than the movies and comics.  I absolutely despise Zahn now.  As you mentioned, the dialogue is terrible and the magic ability of characters to pop in everywhere at the exact moment they're needed and usually in large numbers is grating as hell to me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 13, 2011, 01:48:12 AM
Yeah, I guess it was the same for me. I hated a lot of the Expanded Universe, because of the way they treated the main characters. It's kind of like season 5 of Babylon 5. Yeah, there's some good bits, but a lot of tension is gone now that the main storyline is resolved and a lot of it is a shadow of its former goodness.

I always preferred EU stories about new or minor/background characters (like the Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina/Jabba's Palace collections). I guess that's what I like about the Old Republic setting. I still need to check out the Legacy comics, set 120+ years after the movies. I also liked the first two or three X-Wing books (very much because it didn't focus on the known characters) when they came out, though I'm not sure they've stood the test of time, either.

I guess when it comes to Star Wars I might be more of a comic book guy (loved the Marvel comics when I was a kid).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on December 13, 2011, 04:30:48 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 13, 2011, 01:48:12 AM
Yeah, I guess it was the same for me. I hated a lot of the Expanded Universe, because of the way they treated the main characters. It's kind of like season 5 of Babylon 5. Yeah, there's some good bits, but a lot of tension is gone now that the main storyline is resolved and a lot of it is a shadow of its former goodness.

I always preferred EU stories about new or minor/background characters (like the Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina/Jabba's Palace collections). I guess that's what I like about the Old Republic setting. I still need to check out the Legacy comics, set 120+ years after the movies. I also liked the first two or three X-Wing books (very much because it didn't focus on the known characters) when they came out, though I'm not sure they've stood the test of time, either.

I guess when it comes to Star Wars I might be more of a comic book guy (loved the Marvel comics when I was a kid).
Have you read any of the Karen Traviss Clone Wars Era books?  They're fantastic stuff in my opinion.  I don't think they involve major characters other than maybe being mentioned in the background or incidental run-ins.  They're actually my biggest gripe against Lucas and his empire right now, as they were all ret-conned away before the series finished so that the Clone Wars cartoon could change the way Mandalore and Mandalorians worked to make us of in a few episodes. :bleeding:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 13, 2011, 04:44:29 AM
Well, word of mouth has it that the different Mandalorians will be retconned to work together within the different media.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on December 13, 2011, 04:51:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 13, 2011, 04:44:29 AM
Well, word of mouth has it that the different Mandalorians will be retconned to work together within the different media.
Meh.  Still won't get me a finish from Traviss, as she has moved onto other projects and said that the Star Wars universe was fun while it lasted, but has moved on.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 15, 2011, 12:06:17 AM
Ordered Georg Maier's Drama Between Budapest and Vienna: The Final Fighting of the 6th Panzer-Armee in the East - 1945

It's got top reviews and apparently gives a detailed German account of  Operation "Spring Awakening" among other things.

For my comiedic relief I shall reread Caidin's The Tigers are Burning
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 20, 2011, 11:47:41 PM
Drama Between Budapest and Vienna. What a beatiful book.


Hard cover, large format (9" x 12") with 509 text pages, nearly 1,000 footnotes, 16 pages of photos, 124 appendices and a separate 32-page full-color map book.

Georg Maier, the former Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations of the 6. (SS)-Panzer-Armee.

Here's a snippet from a review.

QuoteThis story is highly researched and is presented in great detail on a daily basis. The coverage includes the captures, victories and defeats by each unit on each side. It also includes the planning and objectives for each drive as well as the results and meaning of the results. The German commanders are given good coverage as well for they have major impact, sometimes positive and sometimes negative on the results. Generals Balck, Gille and Grolman in the field and General Guderian back in Berlin are given special attention. Balck frequently overstepped his authority and caused a lot of friction. With the inclusion of war diary entries and communiques between commanders as well as with Berlin, the reader can sense what the German Command were experiencing. There were also a few letter fragments from the field that help you understand what the infantry was experiencing.

Mr Maier's effort is truly outstanding. Using war diaries of Division, Corps and Army diaries plus other primary and secondary sources has reconstructed in such detail an important piece of history for posterity.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on December 21, 2011, 10:13:17 AM
I just finished Eco's The Prague Cemetary.  Nicely crafted novel that will appeal to both JR/Malthus and Slargos but in order for Slargos to fully enjoy the novel Slargos will have to ignore the caveat of a reviewer that this novel is meant to be ironic and the more simple minded should avoid it. Once he has done that he will find full justification for all his beliefs.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on December 21, 2011, 11:57:34 AM
That's on my Christmas wish list. I'm a huge fan of Eco's. (although his last one not so much)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 29, 2011, 04:07:24 AM
Anyone know of any decent books on the Dutch War of Independence?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on December 29, 2011, 04:58:52 AM
I'm about 2/3 of the way through The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt, the first book of Edmund Morris' 3 volume biography of Teddy Roosevelt.  Very good so far.  Anyone read the entire work?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 29, 2011, 07:02:09 AM
Quote from: sbr on December 29, 2011, 04:58:52 AM
I'm about 2/3 of the way through The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt, the first book of Edmund Morris' 3 volume biography of Teddy Roosevelt.  Very good so far.  Anyone read the entire work?
I've read the first two, but not the third. They're very good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on December 29, 2011, 07:47:09 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 29, 2011, 04:07:24 AM
Anyone know of any decent books on the Dutch War of Independence?

The Dutch Revolt by Geoffrey Parker (seems to be out of print)
The Dutch Republic: Its Rise, Greatness, and Fall 1477-1806 by Jonathan Israel (not just about the war, obviously)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valdemar on December 29, 2011, 08:05:18 AM
Any one read "the dwarves" series by a German author, I think he is called Heist.

If so, what do they compare to?

Read the awakend and innocent mage books recently, they were quite fun, if light, reading, but I stalled a quarter way into the follow up. Predictable as hell.

Read the Arthur books by Cornwell instead, quite good and made me pick up his alfred series again (dropped it after 3 books last time)

I can recommend his novel Azincourt, set, obviously in France right before and during the battle.

V
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on December 29, 2011, 10:15:56 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on December 29, 2011, 08:05:18 AM
Any one read "the dwarves" series by a German author, I think he is called Heist.

If so, what do they compare to?

Read the awakend and innocent mage books recently, they were quite fun, if light, reading, but I stalled a quarter way into the follow up. Predictable as hell.

Read the Arthur books by Cornwell instead, quite good and made me pick up his alfred series again (dropped it after 3 books last time)

I can recommend his novel Azincourt, set, obviously in France right before and during the battle.

V

Stay away from the dwarves unless you like low quality fantasy with plot holes bigger than Middle Earth. They are acceptable airplane reads, but little else.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on December 29, 2011, 10:30:06 AM
Is it uncool to say I'm enjoying the latest Stephen King book? It's not exactly 14th century history or anything, but it is the sort of nerdy alternate universe genre you guys like. In this one, man steps into past to stop Oswald from killing Kennedy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on December 29, 2011, 10:51:54 AM
Quote from: Josephus on December 29, 2011, 10:30:06 AM
Is it uncool to say I'm enjoying the latest Stephen King book? It's not exactly 14th century history or anything, but it is the sort of nerdy alternate universe genre you guys like. In this one, man steps into past to stop Oswald from killing Kennedy.
That is such a tired idea.  All those fucking baby boomers and their goddamn Kennedy obsession.  Fuck the Kennedys, and fuck the baby boom generation that made them possible.

For fuckssakes, he's the second most worthless president ever assassinated.  GET OVER IT.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on December 29, 2011, 12:03:35 PM
Did you want me to lend it to you when I'm done? ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on December 29, 2011, 12:44:24 PM
Slogging through "Shadow Of the Torturer" It has it's moments, but it's not at all what I remember from the series. as I read I feel the second book may have been the one I really liked. It's not bad, or poorly written, It was more exciting somehow when I was a teenager.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on December 29, 2011, 08:46:11 PM
Devil in the White City. Going in, I didn't know anything about H.H. Holmes or the 1893 Chicago World's Fair, so the book was enjoyable. The author, however, seems to essentially make some chunks of the story up out of whole cloth, which is usually not a good thing in a history book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on December 29, 2011, 08:54:52 PM
I intend to read more than one book next year.  :cool:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on December 29, 2011, 09:43:46 PM
I intend to read no books this year.  Fuck all this words-on-paper noise.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 31, 2011, 12:29:59 AM
Give Me Tomorrow: The Korean War's Greatest Untold Story - The Epic Stands of the Marines of George Company
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on December 31, 2011, 12:49:54 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 31, 2011, 12:29:59 AM
Give Me Tomorrow: The Korean War's Greatest Untold Story - The Epic Stands of the Marines of George Company

Review when you get the chance, please?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 31, 2011, 01:04:11 AM
Sure, I just started it though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jaron on December 31, 2011, 01:31:23 AM
Has anyone read a book (series?) called "The Hunger Games" or something along those lines. Co-workers keep pestering me to pick it up but I've never heard of it before. Has anyone read it and willing to give their opinion of it?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on December 31, 2011, 01:35:12 AM
Quote from: Jaron on December 31, 2011, 01:31:23 AM
Has anyone read a book (series?) called "The Hunger Games" or something along those lines. Co-workers keep pestering me to pick it up but I've never heard of it before. Has anyone read it and willing to give their opinion of it?

It is a "young adult" series and my oldest daughtler loved it.  I haven't read it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on December 31, 2011, 01:47:42 AM
I'm half way through the Steve Jobs bio.  It was a Christmas present.  Man was Jobs a huge freak. :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 31, 2011, 02:03:50 AM
Man, it's weird reading about fighting raging through towns I've been to and/or traveled through.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 31, 2011, 03:39:04 AM
I've read 21% of "Give Me Tomorrow", and though the writing is nothing special, the anecdotes he relates are quite gripping.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 31, 2011, 04:06:23 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 31, 2011, 02:03:50 AM
Man, it's weird reading about fighting raging through towns I've been to and/or traveled through.

Clearly you've never been to continental Europe. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on December 31, 2011, 10:01:12 AM
Quote from: Jaron on December 31, 2011, 01:31:23 AM
Has anyone read a book (series?) called "The Hunger Games" or something along those lines. Co-workers keep pestering me to pick it up but I've never heard of it before. Has anyone read it and willing to give their opinion of it?

My younger boy and his friends all like it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on December 31, 2011, 10:54:32 AM
Quote from: Jaron on December 31, 2011, 01:31:23 AM
Has anyone read a book (series?) called "The Hunger Games" or something along those lines. Co-workers keep pestering me to pick it up but I've never heard of it before. Has anyone read it and willing to give their opinion of it?

It's basically "Battle Royale."  First one wasn't bad.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 02, 2012, 10:16:49 AM
Reading the latest issue of Foreign Affairs, which is a 90th anniversary edition containing essays from the past 90 years. REally cool contemporary stuff on Lenin, Hitler, The Cold War...etc.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 02, 2012, 10:27:09 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 31, 2011, 04:06:23 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 31, 2011, 02:03:50 AM
Man, it's weird reading about fighting raging through towns I've been to and/or traveled through.

Clearly you've never been to continental Europe. :P
lol
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 02, 2012, 10:28:08 AM
Heirs of the Prophet Muhammad

Nice for background only the early years of the Caliphate. However for a book that has a subtitl3 about the sunni-shia split it doesn't fare well. Ends roughly with the rise of the Umayyads.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 02, 2012, 11:40:02 AM
Strange New Worlds: The Search for Alien Planets and Life beyond Our Solar System

It's basically exactly what it says. It goes through the history of searching for extrasolar planets, the methods used, and the potential future.

Tim should definitely read this book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on January 02, 2012, 03:44:51 PM
Landscape Turned Red: The Battle of Antietam. George B. McClellan: colossal douche.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: dps on January 02, 2012, 04:35:50 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 31, 2011, 04:06:23 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 31, 2011, 02:03:50 AM
Man, it's weird reading about fighting raging through towns I've been to and/or traveled through.

Clearly you've never been to continental Europe. :P

Or Boston, Trenton, Nashville, San Antonio, and too many other places in the US to mention.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 02, 2012, 04:44:42 PM
What were people saying about Hitler and Lenin when they first came to power.  Terrific dancer?  Well manicured little beard?  The type of face you want to carve into every piece of stone and paint on every piece of paper in your country?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 02, 2012, 07:08:11 PM
Quote from: Kleves on January 02, 2012, 03:44:51 PM
Landscape Turned Red: The Battle of Antietam. George B. McClellan: colossal douche.
That's a great book!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 02, 2012, 07:32:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 02, 2012, 04:44:42 PM
What were people saying about Hitler and Lenin when they first came to power.  Terrific dancer?  Well manicured little beard?  The type of face you want to carve into every piece of stone and paint on every piece of paper in your country?

Buy Foreign Affairs.  ;) The answer's a little too deep for a Languish sound bite.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on January 03, 2012, 12:04:00 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 02, 2012, 07:08:11 PM
That's a great book!
It is. I had just forgotten how much of a tool McClellan was. And am I the only one who has a hard time disliking Burnside?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 03, 2012, 02:35:38 AM
Quote from: Josephus on January 02, 2012, 07:32:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 02, 2012, 04:44:42 PM
What were people saying about Hitler and Lenin when they first came to power.  Terrific dancer?  Well manicured little beard?  The type of face you want to carve into every piece of stone and paint on every piece of paper in your country?

Buy Foreign Affairs.  ;) The answer's a little too deep for a Languish sound bite.

I gotta download that edition on to my kindle.
I'm glad I didn't cancel my subscription. :)

I also have to start using that 100 years of National Geographic stuff I have. I read a few articles from pre-WWI and during it, but articles during the Russian Revolution would be pretty cool. During WWI is not quite as interesting as you'd expect, though it does make sense - it's hard to talk about the significance of, say, Gallipolli when you don't have hindsight.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on January 03, 2012, 03:02:02 AM
"Churchill's Master Stroke Promises Swift End to War."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 03, 2012, 04:03:18 AM
Quote from: Kleves on January 03, 2012, 12:04:00 AM

It is. I had just forgotten how much of a tool McClellan was. And am I the only one who has a hard time disliking Burnside?

Burnside was a decent guy.  He knew he wasn't competent to run the entire army of the Potomac and to his credit tried to avoid the commission.  He wasn't a totally incompetent solider though, and suffered a lot of bad luck.  He did know his strengths and he probably would have served better as a mid ranking military bureaucrat rather then front line commander.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on January 03, 2012, 07:38:03 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 03, 2012, 03:02:02 AM
"Churchill's Master Stroke Promises Swift End to War."

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi76.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj18%2FFunkMonk2000%2FJohn_Churchill_Marlborough_portrtterad_av_Adriaen_van_der_Werff_1659-1722.jpg&hash=3fd5d23026829723915c984106b42fb1a93baf64)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 03, 2012, 09:13:52 AM
"New state of Poland created. Will never be taken seriously."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 03, 2012, 09:44:37 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 03, 2012, 04:03:18 AM
Quote from: Kleves on January 03, 2012, 12:04:00 AM

It is. I had just forgotten how much of a tool McClellan was. And am I the only one who has a hard time disliking Burnside?

Burnside was a decent guy.  He knew he wasn't competent to run the entire army of the Potomac and to his credit tried to avoid the commission.  He wasn't a totally incompetent solider though, and suffered a lot of bad luck.  He did know his strengths and he probably would have served better as a mid ranking military bureaucrat rather then front line commander.

Plus he harassed the Copperheads in Ohio. Good guy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 03, 2012, 09:47:35 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 03, 2012, 09:44:37 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 03, 2012, 04:03:18 AM
Quote from: Kleves on January 03, 2012, 12:04:00 AM

It is. I had just forgotten how much of a tool McClellan was. And am I the only one who has a hard time disliking Burnside?

Burnside was a decent guy.  He knew he wasn't competent to run the entire army of the Potomac and to his credit tried to avoid the commission.  He wasn't a totally incompetent solider though, and suffered a lot of bad luck.  He did know his strengths and he probably would have served better as a mid ranking military bureaucrat rather then front line commander.

Plus he harassed the Copperheads in Ohio. Good guy.

And had the most awesome facial hair - evidently a prime pre-requisite for a civil war general.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 03, 2012, 09:52:40 AM
At least he didn't John Bell Hood his own army.

WHERES MAH OPIUM?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on January 03, 2012, 01:09:02 PM
So I read the first four books of Game of Thrones. Does the fifth one end the series or is it another mess of unresolved story threads?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 03, 2012, 01:13:40 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 03, 2012, 01:09:02 PM
So I read the first four books of Game of Thrones. Does the fifth one end the series or is it another mess of unresolved story threads?
I've not read it yet, but read the other four and agree. 

I think the TV series could end up a lot better than the books.  It's like the Harry Potter series, the author's addicted to adding things and developing a world while the TV or film producer has to strip a lot of that out and focus on narrative.  So the last Harry Potter book still had those wonderfully silly names for new things in the world and other slightly oddball wizards, while the films focussed on the road movie narrative and the final battle - strip out the Rowling-fun.

The TV series is very good, if you've not watched it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on January 03, 2012, 01:32:52 PM
Yeah, it's because of the TV series that I read the books. The show's really good, better than the books IMO. The sometimes tedious description of fantastic wonders is shown, and the acting and direction brings just a little more dimension to the characters as well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on January 03, 2012, 05:08:37 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 03, 2012, 01:09:02 PM
So I read the first four books of Game of Thrones. Does the fifth one end the series or is it another mess of unresolved story threads?

The fifth is as bad or worse than the fourth.  No end in sight and most of the interesting plot lines from the first three books never make it to print.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on January 05, 2012, 06:30:44 PM
Read ARSÈNAL – The Making of a Modern Superclub. Very informative and well-written. Goes into the nuts and bolts of the club since the arrival of Wenger (and a little bit prior) and really details the inner workings of the board over the years. Fully recommended to anyone interested in the club or the sport in general.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on January 05, 2012, 11:13:06 PM
Just finished Treasure Island for the first time.  My new phone came with a Google Books app and Treasure Island was preloaded on it, I got hooked pretty quick.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 12, 2012, 01:20:32 AM
Ah, the good old days. -_-

The opening paragraph of Cruelty and Laughter: Forgotten Comic Literature and the Unsentimental Eighteenth Century

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 12, 2012, 03:54:33 AM
Quote from: sbr on January 05, 2012, 11:13:06 PM
Just finished Treasure Island for the first time.  My new phone came with a Google Books app and Treasure Island was preloaded on it, I got hooked pretty quick.

About two thirds of the way through it, it's the first book I've read on a kindle. Funny that we are using new technology to read a 130 yr old book.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 12, 2012, 08:19:47 AM
Finished 11/22/63. Stephen King's best work since the late 80s.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on January 12, 2012, 12:18:17 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 12, 2012, 03:54:33 AM
Quote from: sbr on January 05, 2012, 11:13:06 PM
Just finished Treasure Island for the first time.  My new phone came with a Google Books app and Treasure Island was preloaded on it, I got hooked pretty quick.

About two thirds of the way through it, it's the first book I've read on a kindle. Funny that we are using new technology to read a 130 yr old book.

I felt the same way when I read The Three Muskateers but after finishing it I was happy for it because without the new technology and the free give away of classic titles I probably would never had the pleasure of that reading experience.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 12, 2012, 12:24:59 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 12, 2012, 12:18:17 PM
I felt the same way when I read The Three Muskateers but after finishing it I was happy for it because without the new technology and the free give away of classic titles I probably would never had the pleasure of that reading experience.
It's true.  Though I only read some classics on my Kindle.  There are some which I like to have a proper edition for because I need the notes or think the introduction will be worth it.

Similarly I've not really read many non-fiction books on the Kindle.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on January 12, 2012, 12:43:43 PM
Just finished the Steve Jobs bio.

Man was that man an asshole.  There's just no getting around it.  It's even the question that was put to him by his biographer, and numerous other people - why are you so mean sometimes?  Jobs had no real answer (or insight) - saying either 'it's just who I am', or 'you need to be blunt to get the best out of people'.  He was a man fascinated with zen buddhism and studied it all of his life, but never came remotely close to acheiving that calm buddhist demeanour.

I kind of wish the book had spent more time discussing both his early life and the start of apple.  That felt rushed.  Perhaps because the author felt those areas have been well written about in other books (they have).  But the dicussions of the last five years are so are pretty much common knowledge, with little new insight from the book - or at least to me.

It was also interesting because it makes the point that Jobs vision was the same for pretty much all of his career - the tightly integrated, well designed and beautiful single box.  You can see it in the original Mac, at NeXT, the iMac an onwards (original Apple II was much more Woz designed, but even then there were Jobsian influences on subsequent models).  Very, very few people have that kind of clarity of vision for that length of time.

The writing itself is very matter of fact - it doesn't get in the way, but neither does it make it worth reading if you have little interest in the subject.  It is however very well researched, with hundreds of interviews and of course unique access to Jobs himself (he was extremely protective of his privacy).  If you have an interest in the computer industry then it is worth taking a look at.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 12, 2012, 12:53:01 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 12, 2012, 08:19:47 AM
Finished 11/22/63. Stephen King's best work since the late 80s.

Bought that for my mom.  I don't know if she has finished it yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 12, 2012, 02:22:12 PM
Cracked open Anthony Beevor's The Fall of Berlin, 1945.

Hitler, Stalin, Guderian, tanks, rape, rape, rape, rape, rape, rape.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 12, 2012, 02:25:11 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 12, 2012, 02:22:12 PM
Cracked open Anthony Beevor's The Fall of Berlin, 1945.

Hitler, Stalin, Guderian, tanks, rape, rape, rape, rape, rape, rape.


I dumped mine at half-price books because of the rape.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 12, 2012, 02:28:54 PM
Yeah, I only started reading it to tide me over until my new book comes in :

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0306806886/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details

War in Italy, 1943-1945 : A Brutal Story by Richard Lamb.

Goes into good detail about the pro-Allied Italian troops, the German occupation of northern Italy, etc..  A lot of the negative reviews are from Fascist sympathizers, so the author seems to have pissed someone off somewhere.  Should be a good read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 14, 2012, 05:21:24 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 02, 2012, 11:40:02 AM
Strange New Worlds: The Search for Alien Planets and Life beyond Our Solar System

It's basically exactly what it says. It goes through the history of searching for extrasolar planets, the methods used, and the potential future.

Tim should definitely read this book.

After finishing the book, I'll add to my review.

It gives an excellent overview of the history of planet-finding, and the various techniques for finding planets. However, the last chapter, on astrobiology, was extremely interesting but far to short. It only covered the very surface of the topic. It did have some interesting speculation, such as how plants might be black or other dark colors on planets around small red dwarf stars in order to absorb a greater stretch of the light spectrum, but not nearly enough. It easily could have had another few chapters on that.

There's a book exclusively on astrobiology that I'm looking at, but haven't bought yet. Hopefully it will cover what this book didn't.


Currently reading Court of the Red Tsar, a biography of Stalin. It focuses on the personal lives of Stalin and his inner circle. While it does of course talk about politics, that isn't its main focus. It's been pretty interesting so far, but I haven't even gotten to the Purges yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on January 17, 2012, 02:46:32 AM
Finished Michel Houellebecq's The Map and the Territory.  It's probably his weakest novel.  It lacks energy--and when a Houllebecq novel lacks energy, holy shit, that's what they call a true vacuum.

Which is sort of the point, as the protagonist, Jed Martin, artist, is almost inhumanly emotionless; in this regard he is a complete departure from Daniel, from 2005's The Possibility of an Island, although his existence is remarkably similar to that book's Daniel 24 and Daniel 25 (the former's far-off clone descendents), albeit without even the dying spark of yearning even those transhumans had.  Like, I know it's the point--but like the author himself once said, it is "a flatter, more terse, more dreary discourse" that he's invented here.  It still has some points of interest in the first two thirds, but not quite enough to justify their length.

It only finally picks up when Michel Houellebecq is murdered.

The character, that is.  He's introduced during Jed's portraiture period, when Jed paints a picture of Houllebecq.  He acts basically like Houllebecq acts in public, i.e. a sad and complete loser.  And then he and his dog get his head cut off.  Then shit really gets rolling and Jed closes in on his own natural death (which is where the author should have begun, because that's his forte), and Jed eventually completes one last phase of his artistic career before he eats it:

QuoteHe then treated the images [of the forest] according to a method that belongs essentially to montage, even if it is a very particular form of montage, where he occasionally keeps only a few photograms out of three hours' shooting; but it is well and truly montage that enables him to achieve those moving plant tissues, with their carnivorous suppleness, peaceful and pitiless at the same time, which constitute without any doubt the most successful attempt, in Western art, at representing how plants see the world.  [...] That feeling of desolation, too, that takes hold of us as the portraits of the human beings who had accompanied Jed Martin through his earthly life fall apart under the impact of bad weather, then decompose and disappear, seeming in the last videos to make themselves the symbols of the generalized annihilation of the human species.  They sink and seem for an instant to put up a struggle before being suffocated by the superimposed layers of plants.  Then everything becomes calm.  There remains only the grass swaying in the wind.  The triumph of vegetation is total.

So, you know, it ends like literally every Houllebecq novel ends, with the human race in some combination of dead, dying, or deserving to die.  So it does have that to recommend it.

But I can't say I was disappointed.  I knew it wouldn't be as good as The Possibility of an Island, and was unlikely to be as good as Platform, Elementary Particles, or Extension of the Domain.  But you know what was really missing?  The dozens of pages of padding in the form of bluntly phrased pornography.  What the fuck happened, you fucking drunk, did you grow up?  Lame.

Of course, since the rest of you are cultureless abominations, I suppose I'll discuss it with Mihali when the booze wears off.  :frog:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 02:49:29 AM
OMFG spoilers!   :mad:  I'm 50 pages in.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on January 17, 2012, 02:51:45 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 02:49:29 AM
OMFG spoilers!   :mad:  I'm 50 pages in.

Sorry.  I thought you'd already finished. :(

I also tend to be spoiler-proof myself and I forget other people are sensitive.  But I don't think I really spoiled it, as you'll see; I mean, unless the spoiler was "It wasn't as good as previous books."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 02:53:33 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 17, 2012, 02:51:45 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 02:49:29 AM
OMFG spoilers!   :mad:  I'm 50 pages in.

Sorry.  I thought you'd already finished. :(

Oh, I'm finished alright...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on January 17, 2012, 02:54:35 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 02:53:33 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 17, 2012, 02:51:45 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 02:49:29 AM
OMFG spoilers!   :mad:  I'm 50 pages in.

Sorry.  I thought you'd already finished. :(

Oh, I'm finished alright...

Oh, come on.  Seriously?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 02:56:46 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 17, 2012, 02:54:35 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 02:53:33 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 17, 2012, 02:51:45 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 02:49:29 AM
OMFG spoilers!   :mad:  I'm 50 pages in.

Sorry.  I thought you'd already finished. :(

Oh, I'm finished alright...

Oh, come on.  Seriously?

Want to make something of it, pretty boy?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on January 17, 2012, 02:58:37 AM
I am sorry.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 03:01:08 AM
What do your damn italics mean?   :glare:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on January 17, 2012, 03:08:17 AM
To emphasize that I am, in fact, sorry, apologetic, and contrite.

If I hampered your enjoyment of a book by my favorite author, I feel bad.

I also suggest you keep reading, because it gets good toward the end, and I don't think my spoiler (and it was inadvertent :( ) is going to fuck up the experience irreversibly.

I mean, Houellebecq isn't a twisty dude.  I knew the entire plot to Elementary Particles and Platform before I read them... but then again, that may be because I'm impervious to having my shit ruined (I knew how Sixth Sense ended and it didn't bug me), so sometimes I'm an asshole who doesn't take others' different approach to fiction into consideration; although I did think you were done, I should have probably checked or tagged it in some fashion.  Like I said, I feel bad now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 03:11:19 AM
:hug:  No, I never give a shit about spoilers, I was joking entirely.   SHE JUMPS IN FRONT OF A TRAIN -- "Anna Karenina" is still worth reading.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on January 17, 2012, 03:14:13 AM
YOU SON OF...

It was the booze crack, wasn't it?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 03:19:35 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 17, 2012, 03:14:13 AM
YOU SON OF...

It was the booze crack, wasn't it?

I'm not on the booze crack.   :sleep:  Just the general insomnia.... For what it's worth, I thought you had been making fun of my general désespoir because I'm a fancy public defender trainee.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2012, 03:20:58 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 03:11:19 AM
:hug:  No, I never give a shit about spoilers, I was joking entirely.   SHE JUMPS IN FRONT OF A TRAIN -- "Anna Karenina" is still worth reading.
But what about Android Karenina?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebooklion.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F06%2Fandroid-karenina-cover.jpg&hash=275cedf3b0a4f18e0999d69572dd78d3fc059be0)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on January 17, 2012, 03:22:09 AM
Oh.

That's not even a Photoshop.  That's a thing that exists.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on January 17, 2012, 03:29:52 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 03:19:35 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 17, 2012, 03:14:13 AM
YOU SON OF...

It was the booze crack, wasn't it?

I'm not on the booze crack.   :sleep:  Just the general insomnia.... For what it's worth, I thought you had been making fun of my general désespoir because I'm a fancy public defender trainee.

Eh, I might still do that if public defense still exists by the time I belatedly get admitted to the bar.  It's what I wanted, and trained for. -_-
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 17, 2012, 08:21:00 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2012, 03:11:19 AM
:hug:  No, I never give a shit about spoilers, I was joking entirely.   SHE JUMPS IN FRONT OF A TRAIN -- "Anna Karenina" is still worth reading.

Fuck. Asshole.


;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on January 21, 2012, 10:20:32 PM
Quite enjoying Aldiss' Cracken At Critical. ripping dystopia of a pulpier age happening mostly on a moonbase! AI sentience, telepathy, rants about various scientific theories. fun stuff. Makes me want to revisit Splinter In The mind's Eye. maybe.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 21, 2012, 11:02:06 PM
I've been reading lots of pulps lately. One about a young man discovering he's a wizard and falling in love with an elf queen. One about Israeli forces taking out Libyan nukes and Pakistan's plant. One about James Bond climbing in the Himalayas. And now starting one about a 25 year old murder.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on January 21, 2012, 11:46:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 12, 2012, 12:43:43 PM
Just finished the Steve Jobs bio.

Man was that man an asshole.  There's just no getting around it.  It's even the question that was put to him by his biographer, and numerous other people - why are you so mean sometimes?  Jobs had no real answer (or insight) - saying either 'it's just who I am', or 'you need to be blunt to get the best out of people'.  He was a man fascinated with zen buddhism and studied it all of his life, but never came remotely close to acheiving that calm buddhist demeanour.

I kind of wish the book had spent more time discussing both his early life and the start of apple.  That felt rushed.  Perhaps because the author felt those areas have been well written about in other books (they have).  But the dicussions of the last five years are so are pretty much common knowledge, with little new insight from the book - or at least to me.

It was also interesting because it makes the point that Jobs vision was the same for pretty much all of his career - the tightly integrated, well designed and beautiful single box.  You can see it in the original Mac, at NeXT, the iMac an onwards (original Apple II was much more Woz designed, but even then there were Jobsian influences on subsequent models).  Very, very few people have that kind of clarity of vision for that length of time.

The writing itself is very matter of fact - it doesn't get in the way, but neither does it make it worth reading if you have little interest in the subject.  It is however very well researched, with hundreds of interviews and of course unique access to Jobs himself (he was extremely protective of his privacy).  If you have an interest in the computer industry then it is worth taking a look at.

I'll be honest as much as I make fun of Macs, I really do like Apple. I think MacBooks in particular are pretty amazingly well made, and OSX is really an amazing operating system. In the tablet market pretty much anything other than an iPad is a waste of money.

But I've never been able to think of Steve Jobs without thinking "douchebag." This dates back to the 80s for me, when I read in a magazine that Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs were doing a job for Atari. Wozniak did 100% of the work, Steve was just the middle man. Job told Woz the job paid something like $500, in truth it paid $5000 and Jobs pocketed $4750 and gave Woz $250 as his share of the $500 Woz thought the job paid.

I probably have the numbers wrong since I'm going from memory, but the general gist is 100% true.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on January 22, 2012, 11:56:26 AM
I read Heir to the Empire to get me in a Star Wars mood for The Old Republic (the MMO). I liked the book. It was a fun, galaxy-spanning space opera. I won't, however, be picking up the next book in the series. The problem? The films. Characters from the films are sacrosanct, and cannot really grow or be challenged (much less killed). Luke, Leia, Han, etc. are all altruistic saints; there can be no grey areas. As a result, there's no suspense as to the eventual outcome; however brilliant Thrawn may be, he will be overcome through charity and good works. As a kid, this was fine. As an adult, it means I identify much more with the bad guys, who, as mere flawed mortals, must use the mundane traits of logic, courage, and dedication to do battle with our magical ubermensch heroes. When you start to empathize more with the faceless stormtroopers than with the Jedi Knight who slaughters them, I think it's safe to say you've moved beyond the Star Wars universe. Ah well, it was fun while it lasted.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: AnchorClanker on January 22, 2012, 01:28:39 PM
Just started Preston's biography of Francisco Franco - so far so good.  I had no idea he was such a momma's boy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 22, 2012, 02:30:05 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 12, 2012, 02:22:12 PM
Cracked open Anthony Beevor's The Fall of Berlin, 1945.

Hitler, Stalin, Guderian, tanks, rape, rape, rape, rape, rape, rape.

Rape rape rape.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 22, 2012, 02:31:23 PM
Quote from: Kleves on January 22, 2012, 11:56:26 AM
I read Heir to the Empire to get me in a Star Wars mood for The Old Republic (the MMO). I liked the book. It was a fun, galaxy-spanning space opera. I won't, however, be picking up the next book in the series. The problem? The films. Characters from the films are sacrosanct, and cannot really grow or be challenged (much less killed). Luke, Leia, Han, etc. are all altruistic saints; there can be no grey areas. As a result, there's no suspense as to the eventual outcome; however brilliant Thrawn may be, he will be overcome through charity and good works. As a kid, this was fine. As an adult, it means I identify much more with the bad guys, who, as mere flawed mortals, must use the mundane traits of logic, courage, and dedication to do battle with our magical ubermensch heroes. When you start to empathize more with the faceless stormtroopers than with the Jedi Knight who slaughters them, I think it's safe to say you've moved beyond the Star Wars universe. Ah well, it was fun while it lasted.

I've commented about Heir to the Empire further up. Couldn't get through it again. But I agree that using the main characters *well* is difficult, especially in the post-Death Star II world.

I'm almost done with the first X-Wing book which I originally read over 10 years ago. It's not high literature, but fun enough as action adventure based around Rogue Squadron, led by Wedge. In fact, Wedge and Ackbar are the only major movie characters in the book. It takes place a year or two after Endor, so it's before HttE. Besides, the dogfight sequences should be partially familiar to anyone who played X-Wing or TIE-Fighter. ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on January 22, 2012, 04:01:29 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 22, 2012, 02:31:23 PM
I'm almost done with the first X-Wing book which I originally read over 10 years ago. It's not high literature, but fun enough as action adventure based around Rogue Squadron, led by Wedge. In fact, Wedge and Ackbar are the only major movie characters in the book. It takes place a year or two after Endor, so it's before HttE. Besides, the dogfight sequences should be partially familiar to anyone who played X-Wing or TIE-Fighter. ;)
I read a ton of the X-Wing books as a kid and I loved them. Maybe I'll give them a shot again.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 22, 2012, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 12, 2012, 02:22:12 PM
Cracked open Anthony Beevor's The Fall of Berlin, 1945.

Hitler, Stalin, Guderian, tanks, rape, rape, rape, rape, rape, rape.

As incredibly depressing as Stalingrad was, it doesn't hold a candle to 1945.

And his D-Day was no fucking picnic, either.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 22, 2012, 04:09:56 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on January 21, 2012, 11:46:05 PM
But I've never been able to think of Steve Jobs without thinking "douchebag." This dates back to the 80s for me, when I read in a magazine that Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs were doing a job for Atari. Wozniak did 100% of the work, Steve was just the middle man. Job told Woz the job paid something like $500, in truth it paid $5000 and Jobs pocketed $4750 and gave Woz $250 as his share of the $500 Woz thought the job paid.

I probably have the numbers wrong since I'm going from memory, but the general gist is 100% true.

Yeah, that's the gist.  The whole back story on the completely arbitrary and unfair division of shares when Apple first went public takes the definition of "douchebag" to an entirely new level.  And when he was asked why some guys like Wozniak and others got virtually absolutely nothing, he was like, "Meh".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 22, 2012, 04:10:24 PM
I read this Stalingrad, D-Day, and Spanish Civil War ones.  The Stalingrad one kind of bothered me.  Especially the descriptions of the Typhus epidemic and the lice.  Ugh.  I've avoided the Berlin one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2012, 05:04:52 PM
The parts of Stalingrad that got to me the most were the German POW camp and shitting on a shovel.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 22, 2012, 05:13:01 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 22, 2012, 04:10:24 PM
I read this Stalingrad, D-Day, and Spanish Civil War ones.  The Stalingrad one kind of bothered me.  Especially the descriptions of the Typhus epidemic and the lice.  Ugh.  I've avoided the Berlin one.

I tried reading the Spanish Civil war one and just couldn't get through. The theme: Everybody is a dick.

I already knew that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 01, 2012, 08:05:05 PM
Finished the supposed last book in the Dread Empire series by Glen Cook, A Path to coldness of heart (Awful title).

For supposedly a book to finish the series, [spoiler]NOTHING GETS RESOLVED. The Star Rider survives, the Dread Empire survives and there is sorta a good ending for everybody. Bleh.[/spoiler]

Rather disappointing. Sorta dreading(tee hee) any new Black Company novels now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 01, 2012, 11:43:49 PM
Quote from: Kleves on January 22, 2012, 11:56:26 AM
I read Heir to the Empire to get me in a Star Wars mood for The Old Republic (the MMO). I liked the book. It was a fun, galaxy-spanning space opera. I won't, however, be picking up the next book in the series. The problem? The films. Characters from the films are sacrosanct, and cannot really grow or be challenged (much less killed). Luke, Leia, Han, etc. are all altruistic saints; there can be no grey areas. As a result, there's no suspense as to the eventual outcome; however brilliant Thrawn may be, he will be overcome through charity and good works. As a kid, this was fine. As an adult, it means I identify much more with the bad guys, who, as mere flawed mortals, must use the mundane traits of logic, courage, and dedication to do battle with our magical ubermensch heroes. When you start to empathize more with the faceless stormtroopers than with the Jedi Knight who slaughters them, I think it's safe to say you've moved beyond the Star Wars universe. Ah well, it was fun while it lasted.
Eh, [spoiler]Chewabaca [/spoiler]gets killed when the galaxy gets invaded by extragalactic biotech sadists and Han becomes a bitter and cynical. Also bad stuff happens to the young generation which effects the old.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Zoupa on February 02, 2012, 12:36:49 AM
Just finished The Neon Rain, from James Lee Burke.

Dave Robicheaux is one cool cat :frog:

Any of you guys read the rest of his stories?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on February 02, 2012, 03:47:13 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 01, 2012, 08:05:05 PM
Finished the supposed last book in the Dread Empire series by Glen Cook, A Path to coldness of heart (Awful title).

For supposedly a book to finish the series, [spoiler]NOTHING GETS RESOLVED. The Star Rider survives, the Dread Empire survives and there is sorta a good ending for everybody. Bleh.[/spoiler]

Rather disappointing. Sorta dreading(tee hee) any new Black Company novels now.

I remember I read Annals of the Black Company (The Black Company; Shadows Linger; The White Rose) and maybe another output of similar format waaaaaaay back when '86 or '87 :blink:. Embarassingly way back when. :D

They were great BTW.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 02, 2012, 09:25:36 AM
Currently reading A Sacred Hunger, a novel about Liverpool merchants in the slave trade.  Co-winner of the Booker Prize.

S'ok.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on February 02, 2012, 09:29:22 AM
I just read a fantastic novel by an Australian Elliot Perlman called The Street Sweeper. Hard to explain what it's about. It's a Holocaust novel but it's also a novel about American civil rights. It's a love story. It's a story about heroism and kindness and the way that all of us are connected to each other.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2012, 07:41:30 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 22, 2012, 05:13:01 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 22, 2012, 04:10:24 PM
I read this Stalingrad, D-Day, and Spanish Civil War ones.  The Stalingrad one kind of bothered me.  Especially the descriptions of the Typhus epidemic and the lice.  Ugh.  I've avoided the Berlin one.

I tried reading the Spanish Civil war one and just couldn't get through. The theme: Everybody is a dick.

I already knew that.

I read a great book on the Spanish Blue Division some time back, Franco's volunteers for the Eastern Front.  Man, talk about volunteering for a trip to Hell.
As unit actions go, they acquitted themselves a hell of a lot better than some other foreign detachments, but still.  A lot of brave, forgotten men.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on February 03, 2012, 08:19:54 AM
Finished Oscar and Lucinda by Peter Carey, won the Booker a couple of years before Yi's one. It has followed me around, unread, from house for more than 20 years. It was worth the wait - set mainly in Australia in the min 19th century, follows the lives of  two unlikely compulsive gamblers. Very good.

Not read any trash for a while so indulging myself with some Space Opera by Peter Hamilton. Writing is lolbad but enjoying the plot. 9% in according to kindle.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2012, 08:42:03 AM
Whenever I want to turn off my brain, I pick up some WH40K stuff.  Talk about checking out intellectually.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 03, 2012, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2012, 08:42:03 AM
Whenever I want to turn off my brain, I pick up some WH40K stuff.  Talk about checking out intellectually.

Like fiction and shit?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2012, 08:58:22 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 03, 2012, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2012, 08:42:03 AM
Whenever I want to turn off my brain, I pick up some WH40K stuff.  Talk about checking out intellectually.

Like fiction and shit?

Both the fiction and the RPG rulebooks and companions.  As far as the fiction goes, I started with the Horus Heresy series.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 03, 2012, 09:01:11 AM
The Cain W40K books are actually tolerable.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 03, 2012, 09:06:28 AM
Never touched a 40k novel. Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader RPG books are what I read these days. The space marine RPGs hold no interest.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on February 03, 2012, 09:00:14 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2012, 08:42:03 AM
Whenever I want to turn off my brain, I pick up some WH40K stuff.  Talk about checking out intellectually.

:thumbsup:  Exactly why I like them.  They're great mindless pulp sci-fi fodder.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on February 04, 2012, 08:38:34 AM
Finally finished The Demon Princes series by Jack Vance.  Great stuff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on February 04, 2012, 05:11:57 PM
Just got back from the local PB bookstore. Left with Mote in God's Eye, a couple Michael Moorcock and a Fritz Liber book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 05, 2012, 07:07:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2012, 08:58:22 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 03, 2012, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2012, 08:42:03 AM
Whenever I want to turn off my brain, I pick up some WH40K stuff.  Talk about checking out intellectually.

Like fiction and shit?

Both the fiction and the RPG rulebooks and companions.  As far as the fiction goes, I started with the Horus Heresy series.
Try the Ciaphas Cain series.

Also, you guys know any good books on Ancient Greek sexuality/gender?

Probably won't be able to find it on kindle, but worth a shot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 05, 2012, 07:21:51 PM
Cain books = Tainted.  :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on February 06, 2012, 01:46:47 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 05, 2012, 07:07:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2012, 08:58:22 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 03, 2012, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2012, 08:42:03 AM
Whenever I want to turn off my brain, I pick up some WH40K stuff.  Talk about checking out intellectually.

Like fiction and shit?

Both the fiction and the RPG rulebooks and companions.  As far as the fiction goes, I started with the Horus Heresy series.
Try the Ciaphas Cain series.

Also, you guys know any good books on Ancient Greek sexuality/gender?

The Iliad.  The Odyssey.  The Oresteia.  The Trojan Women.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 06, 2012, 02:00:29 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 06, 2012, 01:46:47 AM

The Iliad.  The Odyssey.  The Oresteia.  The Trojan Women.
I've read the first three.

Not what I was talking about though, as you're well aware.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on February 06, 2012, 02:26:00 AM
Then you've learned the ancient Greek approach to sexuality and gender: powerful men can fuck what they want, and women are worthless.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 06, 2012, 09:45:08 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 06, 2012, 02:26:00 AM
Then you've learned the ancient Greek approach to sexuality and gender: powerful men can fuck what they want, and women are worthless.

Indeed.  The Greeks took an abnormal delight in humiliating women.  You should see some of the more risque pottery that's been uncovered.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 06, 2012, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 06, 2012, 02:26:00 AM
Then you've learned the ancient Greek approach to sexuality and gender: powerful men can fuck what they want, and women are worthless.
Thanks Sherlock, I wouldn't have guessed.  :rolleyes:

I want to see the complexity and detail of it all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on February 06, 2012, 07:15:06 PM
Greeks of a socially inferior status would rage greatly when their rape chattel was taken by Greeks of socially superior status, and the Muses would sing of it.  But they'd be even more angry when their homosexual partners died, because men are actual people.

Also, it's important to kill your rape chattel's existing children at or around the same time you kill their previous owner.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 06, 2012, 07:20:06 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 06, 2012, 07:15:06 PM
Greeks of a socially inferior status would rage greatly when their rape chattel was taken by Greeks of socially superior status, and the Muses would sing of it.  But they'd be even more angry when their homosexual partners died, because men are actual people.

Also, it's important to kill your rape chattel's existing children at or around the same time you kill their previous owner.
While you certainly have a way with words, this is not a scholarly dissertation. :contract:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 06, 2012, 07:21:54 PM
I believe these are major texts:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sexuality-Greek-Culture-Marilyn-Skinner/dp/0631232346/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Sex-Gender-Greeks-Freud/dp/0674543556/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_2

This is an interesting sounding reappraisal:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Greeks-Greek-Love-Reappraisal-Homosexuality/dp/0297819976
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/jan/05/history.society
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 06, 2012, 07:25:04 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 06, 2012, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 06, 2012, 02:26:00 AM
Then you've learned the ancient Greek approach to sexuality and gender: powerful men can fuck what they want, and women are worthless.
Thanks Sherlock, I wouldn't have guessed.  :rolleyes:

I want to see the complexity and detail of it all.

I can link you some pictures, but it's NSFW.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on February 06, 2012, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 06, 2012, 07:20:06 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 06, 2012, 07:15:06 PM
Greeks of a socially inferior status would rage greatly when their rape chattel was taken by Greeks of socially superior status, and the Muses would sing of it.  But they'd be even more angry when their homosexual partners died, because men are actual people.

Also, it's important to kill your rape chattel's existing children at or around the same time you kill their previous owner.
While you certainly have a way with words, this is not a scholarly dissertation. :contract:

I think there's a lot you can infer from Greek fiction.  All rape, all the time.  Also, more intrinsically interesting than some monograph by a guy living off student loans, that's probably basing his research on the same thing, albeit in addition the writings of a proto-fascist and a power bottom too dumb to figure out what organ his thoughts are occurring in.

Yeah, I'm gonna go see if Youtube or google has a presentation of The Trojan Women.  Copyright violation, probably, but how the hell else am I supposed to watch a play?

P.S. if you do find something, mention it, I'll probably read it. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on February 07, 2012, 01:48:01 PM
Whipping Girl - Julia Serrano. One of the best, most up to date books on the whole "trans" thing. She raves (sometimes but not always effectively)  a lot about sexism, patriarchy, fear mongering, but at the same time manages to find a gentler, less "constructed" view of the spectrum of Gender identities that people live out. Her main point though is that Trans-women aren't ever going to get respect as women in western and other cultures, until women get respect as women.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 07, 2012, 03:50:29 PM
Just finished 'The Black Jacobins' by C.L.R. James. 

It's a brilliant history of the Haitian revolution and war of independence written in 1938.  The book places what happened in San Domingo at the heart of the French Revolution and, in James's Marxist analysis, as assuming more general importance.  He's convincing.  It's also pleasant to read an unashamedly Marxist perspective on the French Revolution.  He admires Robespierre though he sees him as ultimately betraying his left-wing, as is to be expected, he is a bourgeois revolutionary.  Or the line asking when did property ever listen to reason except when cowed?

His added essay at the end 'From Toussaint to Castro' is a brilliant, brilliant piece on the West Indies in general and in particular on the culturally unique identity.  The indigenous were wiped out, the slaves were divorced from Africa, the planters vulgarised Europeans and the Mulattoes entirely of the West Indies.  He tells the story of the abolition of slavery in the rest of the West Indies through the 19th century, tying that with Naipaul's writing and Castro's revolution.  It's very good.

The best thing though is James's writing.  It is, like Wedgwood's Thirty Years War a history worth reading for the style with which it's written.  Here's the end to the preface of the First Edition, from 1938:

QuoteThe analysis is the science and the demonstration the art which is history. The violent conflicts of our age enable our practiced vision to see into the very bones of previous revolutions more easily than heretofore. Yet for that very reason it is impossible to recollect historical emotions in that tranquility which a great English writer, too narrowly, associated with poetry alone.
   Tranquility today is either innate (the philistine) or to be acquired only by a deliberate doping of the personality. It was in the stillness of a seaside suburb that could be heard most clearly and insistently the booming of Franco's heavy artillery, the rattle of Stalin's firing squads and the fierce shrill turmoil of the revolutionary movement striving for clarity and influence. Such is our age and this book is of it, with something of the fever and the fret. Nor does the writer regret it. The book is the history of a revolution and written under different circumstances it would have been a different but not necessarily a better book.

There are wonderful sentences and explanations throughout.  It's an incredible work and really very inspiring to look more into especially Haitian history and Toussaint.  Very worth reading.

I've just started 'Snowdrops'.  It's a thriller that was short-listed for the Booker Prize last year.  Written by the Economist's former Moscow correspondent its starting point is a body found in spring as the snow melts away.  Apparently a 'snowdrop' in Muscovite slang.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 07, 2012, 06:37:29 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 06, 2012, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 06, 2012, 07:20:06 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 06, 2012, 07:15:06 PM
Greeks of a socially inferior status would rage greatly when their rape chattel was taken by Greeks of socially superior status, and the Muses would sing of it.  But they'd be even more angry when their homosexual partners died, because men are actual people.

Also, it's important to kill your rape chattel's existing children at or around the same time you kill their previous owner.
While you certainly have a way with words, this is not a scholarly dissertation. :contract:

I think there's a lot you can infer from Greek fiction.  All rape, all the time.  Also, more intrinsically interesting than some monograph by a guy living off student loans, that's probably basing his research on the same thing, albeit in addition the writings of a proto-fascist and a power bottom too dumb to figure out what organ his thoughts are occurring in.

Yeah, I'm gonna go see if Youtube or google has a presentation of The Trojan Women.  Copyright violation, probably, but how the hell else am I supposed to watch a play?

P.S. if you do find something, mention it, I'll probably read it. :P
Here you go

Greek Prostitutes in the Ancient Mediterranean, 800 BCE-200 CE
http://www.amazon.com/Prostitutes-Mediterranean-Wisconsin-Classics-ebook/dp/B00752HKWW/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1328657576&sr=1-2

I've only read the sample and have already learned an incredibly degrading new word. 
Chamaitype, a word for a common whore, especially a streetwalker that literally means "thing pounded in the dirt"
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on February 07, 2012, 07:55:04 PM
That's fucking hot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 07, 2012, 07:58:44 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 07, 2012, 07:55:04 PM
That's fucking hot.
In theory, but in reality I think I'd prefer to use one of those couch things the Greeks used.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on February 07, 2012, 08:22:45 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 07, 2012, 07:58:44 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 07, 2012, 07:55:04 PM
That's fucking hot.
In theory, but in reality I think I'd prefer to use one of those couch things the Greeks used.

You've been in Asia too long. :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 07, 2012, 08:24:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 07, 2012, 08:22:45 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 07, 2012, 07:58:44 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 07, 2012, 07:55:04 PM
That's fucking hot.
In theory, but in reality I think I'd prefer to use one of those couch things the Greeks used.

You've been in Asia too long. :(
Maybe in S. Carolina they still prefer to fuck on a dirt floor rather than a couch, but in New England I'm pretty sure my view prevails.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 07, 2012, 08:24:59 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 07, 2012, 08:22:45 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 07, 2012, 07:58:44 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 07, 2012, 07:55:04 PM
That's fucking hot.
In theory, but in reality I think I'd prefer to use one of those couch things the Greeks used.

You've been in Asia too long. :(
Yeah.  Talk about the decadent East.  Herodotus would have much to say about Tim :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 07, 2012, 08:27:20 PM
Look I could see it in a fit of passion if you're out with your girl in the park or something, but as a regular thing?  No.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 07, 2012, 09:38:45 PM
Also, "The reign of the phallus: sexual politics in ancient Athens" which is on Google books in part seems interesting.

Athens was an even more incredibly fucked up and brutal society than I imagined.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on February 07, 2012, 09:55:23 PM
I misunderstood the statement.  But it was a funny joke about Asians and their pillow girlfriends.  Live with it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 07, 2012, 10:35:20 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 07, 2012, 09:55:23 PM
I misunderstood the statement.  But it was a funny joke about Asians and their pillow girlfriends.  Live with it.
Seriously? <_<
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on February 08, 2012, 12:35:09 AM
They exist.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 08, 2012, 11:41:15 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 08, 2012, 12:35:09 AM
They exist.
I was annoyed you thought I was one of those guys.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on February 09, 2012, 12:06:53 AM
I don't, but that's why it's a joke.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 09, 2012, 07:36:30 AM
Ready Player One. I liked it. 

Confessions of a D-List Supervillain. I enjoyed it.  Got it off the dollar store for Kindle on Amazon.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 09, 2012, 07:39:31 AM
By the way, got that book and it's pretty good as a scholarly look at the subject, but the amount of Greek they use (and define once) is wicked annoying. I'm constantly flipping back to recheck vocab.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on February 09, 2012, 03:17:55 PM
Do they do that thing where they do it in Greek script, too?  That's obnoxious.  I get it, I can read it (although not as well as Cyrillic), but it's lazy and pretentious at the same time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 09, 2012, 07:29:33 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 09, 2012, 03:17:55 PM
Do they do that thing where they do it in Greek script, too?  That's obnoxious.  I get it, I can read it (although not as well as Cyrillic), but it's lazy and pretentious at the same time.
No, it's at least in English.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 09, 2012, 09:22:10 PM
Tried to read Abercrombie's The Heroes. Realized within 5 pages I really, really didn't give a fuck about any of the characters. Or the North part of his world. Pass.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on February 09, 2012, 09:23:35 PM
 :hmm:  Want to sell your copy?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 09, 2012, 09:28:22 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 09, 2012, 09:23:35 PM
:hmm:  Want to sell your copy?

It is on my ipad.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on February 09, 2012, 09:54:12 PM
Give you $20.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 09, 2012, 09:55:31 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 19, 2012, 08:52:07 AM
I'm in the market for a decent history of WW2.

Requirements:
- global perspective, covering all theaters
- covering not only the military but also social, political, economical aspects
- comprehensive
- can be in multiple volumes
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 19, 2012, 09:12:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 09, 2012, 09:55:31 PM
:lol:

Bro, that's a good deal.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on February 19, 2012, 11:19:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 19, 2012, 08:52:07 AM
I'm in the market for a decent history of WW2.

Requirements:
- global perspective, covering all theaters
- covering not only the military but also social, political, economical aspects
- comprehensive
- can be in multiple volumes

Ank really likes Overy's "Why We Won"; with some exceptions, I didn't care for it much, but those exceptions involved the social, political, and economic aspects of the war.

I think your requirements are in a bit of tension with each other.  Most anything that's written for above a smart kid's level is going to be specialized, I suspect...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on February 20, 2012, 11:14:55 PM
Starting The Lessons Of Modern War: Volume II: The Iran-Iraq War
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on February 21, 2012, 12:55:51 AM
Finished Richard Lamb's War in Italy, 1943-1945 : A Brutal Story recently.  Excellent read regarding the Italian co-belligerent armies, the trials of the Salo Republic, relations between Hitler and Mussolini, the Allies and just about everything one could hope for regarding the pro-Allied Italian partisans.  Bonus for the coverage on the de Gaulle-backed attempt at annexing portions of northwestern Italy near the end of the war.

Now off to volume I of Norman Davies' God's Playground : A History of Poland.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 21, 2012, 01:37:29 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 19, 2012, 11:19:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 19, 2012, 08:52:07 AM
I'm in the market for a decent history of WW2.

Requirements:
- global perspective, covering all theaters
- covering not only the military but also social, political, economical aspects
- comprehensive
- can be in multiple volumes

Ank really likes Overy's "Why We Won"; with some exceptions, I didn't care for it much, but those exceptions involved the social, political, and economic aspects of the war.

I think your requirements are in a bit of tension with each other.  Most anything that's written for above a smart kid's level is going to be specialized, I suspect...

Guess so. However, David Stephenson's "1914-1918" did a pretty good job of explaining WW1 not only in military terms (though not as detailed there as e.g. Keegan), but also the diplomacy, economy, home fronts etc. which was very interesting. McPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom" also comes to mind.

I find that these days I prefer my war histories to provide more meat than just the military part and a word or two about the politics involved.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 01, 2012, 06:25:41 AM
Finished the trilogy that starts with The Blade Itself. I was reasonably entertained, in spite of the lack of real depth.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 09, 2012, 09:25:11 AM
Started reading a biography of Savronela.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 09, 2012, 09:32:00 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 19, 2012, 11:19:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 19, 2012, 08:52:07 AM
I'm in the market for a decent history of WW2.

Requirements:
- global perspective, covering all theaters
- covering not only the military but also social, political, economical aspects
- comprehensive
- can be in multiple volumes

Ank really likes Overy's "Why We Won"; with some exceptions, I didn't care for it much, but those exceptions involved the social, political, and economic aspects of the war.

I think your requirements are in a bit of tension with each other.  Most anything that's written for above a smart kid's level is going to be specialized, I suspect...

Actually, there seems to be a German series, just finished - 10 volumes, 13 or 14 books total, started in 1979 and recently finished. Each book at 800-1100 pages. But that seems slightly excessive, and the quality of the installments seems to vary as well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 09, 2012, 09:34:57 AM
Go WW1 instead. Imperial Germany is dreamy. :wub:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 16, 2012, 05:12:18 PM
Apparently you people don't read books no more. All Nintendos and shit these days I guess.

Anyway, finished the biography of Savonarola (Donald Weinstein, 2011). It was very good I thought. I have never read a book about Savonarola before, only descriptions in various histories of Florence.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on March 16, 2012, 06:29:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 09, 2012, 09:32:00 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 19, 2012, 11:19:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 19, 2012, 08:52:07 AM
I'm in the market for a decent history of WW2.

Requirements:
- global perspective, covering all theaters
- covering not only the military but also social, political, economical aspects
- comprehensive
- can be in multiple volumes

Ank really likes Overy's "Why We Won"; with some exceptions, I didn't care for it much, but those exceptions involved the social, political, and economic aspects of the war.

I think your requirements are in a bit of tension with each other.  Most anything that's written for above a smart kid's level is going to be specialized, I suspect...

Actually, there seems to be a German series, just finished - 10 volumes, 13 or 14 books total, started in 1979 and recently finished. Each book at 800-1100 pages. But that seems slightly excessive, and the quality of the installments seems to vary as well.

Well, if it's 10,000 pages long, it doesn't count. :P

Quote from: The BrainApparently you people don't read books no more. All Nintendos and shit these days I guess.

Anyway, finished the biography of Savonarola (Donald Weinstein, 2011). It was very good I thought. I have never read a book about Savonarola before, only descriptions in various histories of Florence.

I'm reading a history of China by some guys.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 16, 2012, 07:03:03 PM
Finally got to reading, A Day of Battle by David Ascoli. About half way through it and very good so far. Incompetently led French vs. Aggressively led Prussian/Germans. Had the French even been led by average leadership, they could have capitalized on some serious Kraut errors.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on March 30, 2012, 09:47:16 PM
Reading Robert Heilbroner's The Worldly Philosophers. It's a gem. :wub:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on March 30, 2012, 10:02:16 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 16, 2012, 05:12:18 PM
Apparently you people don't read books no more. All Nintendos and shit these days I guess.


Nah we were just wondering who Savronela was.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PRC on March 30, 2012, 10:36:34 PM
Tom Holland has a new book coming out in May (maybe it's already out in the UK?).  Here is an article he wrote in the Guardian which plays up the books angle:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/mar/30/fall-roman-empire-rise-islam

Quote
The fall of the Roman empire and the rise of Islam

Rome's collapse inspired many gripping tales, from Gibbon's history to Dune and Battlestar Galactica. The story of Arthur's Camelot has its origins in this era of political convulsion, as does a narrative that has taken on vast global importance – the foundation of Islam


Whenever modern civilisations contemplate their own mortality, there is one ghost that will invariably rise up from its grave to haunt their imaginings. In February 1776, a few months after the publication of the first volume of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Edward Gibbon commented gloomily on the news from America, where rebellion against Britain appeared imminent. "The decline of the two empires, Roman and British, proceeds at an equal pace." Now, with the west mired in recession and glancing nervously over its shoulder at China, the same parallel is being dusted down. Last summer, when the Guardian's Larry Elliott wrote an article on the woes of the US economy, the headline almost wrote itself: "Decline and fall of the American empire".

Historians, it is true, have become increasingly uncomfortable with narratives of decline and fall. Few now would accept that the conquest of Roman territory by foreign invaders was a guillotine brought down on the neck of classical civilisation. The transformation from the ancient world to the medieval is recognised as something far more protracted. "Late antiquity" is the term scholars use for the centuries that witnessed its course. Roman power may have collapsed, but the various cultures of the Roman empire mutated and evolved. "We see in late antiquity," so Averil Cameron, one of its leading historians, has observed, "a mass of experimentation, new ways being tried and new adjustments made."

Yet it is a curious feature of the transformation of the Roman world into something recognisably medieval that it bred extraordinary tales even as it impoverished the ability of contemporaries to keep a record of them. "The greatest, perhaps, and most awful scene, in the history of mankind": so Gibbon described his theme. He was hardly exaggerating: the decline and fall of the Roman empire was a convulsion so momentous that even today its influence on stories with an abiding popular purchase remains greater, perhaps, than that of any other episode in history. It can take an effort, though, to recognise this. In most of the narratives informed by the world of late antiquity, from world religions to recent science-fiction and fantasy novels, the context provided by the fall of Rome's empire has tended to be disguised or occluded.

Consider a single sheet of papyrus bearing the decidedly unromantic sobriquet of PERF 558. It was uncovered back in the 19th century at the Egyptian city of Herakleopolis, a faded ruin 80 miles south of Cairo. Herakleopolis itself had passed most of its existence in a condition of somnolent provincialism: first as an Egyptian city, and then, following the conquest of the country by Alexander the Great, as a colony run by and largely for Greeks. The makeover given to it by this new elite was to prove an enduring one. A thousand years on – and some 600 years after its absorption into the Roman empire – Herakleopolis still sported a name that provided, on the banks of the Nile, a little touch of far-off Greece: "the city of Heracles". PERF 558 too, in its own humble way, also bore witness to the impact on Egypt of an entire millennium of foreign rule. It was a receipt, issued for 65 sheep, presented to two officials bearing impeccably Hellenic names Christophoros and Theodorakios and written in Greek.

But not in Greek alone. The papyrus sheet also featured a second language, one never before seen in Egypt. What was it doing there, on an official council receipt? The sheep, according to a note added in Greek on the back, had been requisitioned by "Magaritai" – but who or what were they? The answer was to be found on the front of the papyrus sheet, within the text of the receipt itself. The "Magaritai", it appeared, were none other than the people known as "Saracens": nomads from Arabia, long dismissed by the Romans as "despised and insignificant". Clearly, that these barbarians were now in a position to extort sheep from city councillors suggested a dramatic reversal of fortunes. Nor was that all. The most bizarre revelation of the receipt, perhaps, lay in the fact that a race of shiftless nomads, bandits who for as long as anyone could remember had been lost to an unvarying barbarism, appeared to have developed their own calendar. "The 30th of the month of Pharmouthi of the first indiction": so the receipt was logged in Greek, a date which served to place it in year 642 since the birth of Christ. But it was also, so the receipt declared in the Saracens' own language, "the year twenty two": 22 years since what? Some momentous occurance, no doubt, of evidently great significance to the Saracens themselves. But what precisely, and whether it might have contributed to the arrival of the newcomers in Egypt, and how it was to be linked to that enigmatic title "Magaritai", PERF 558 does not say.

We can now recognise the document as the marker of something seismic. The Magaritai were destined to implant themselves in the country far more enduringly than the Greeks or the Romans had ever done. Arabic, the language they had brought with them, and that appears as such a novelty on PERF 558, is nowadays so native to Egypt that the country has come to rank as the power-house of Arab culture. Yet even a transformation of that order barely touches on the full scale of the changes which are hinted at so prosaically. A new age, of which that tax receipt issued in Herakleopolis in "the year 22" ranks as the oldest surviving dateable document, had been brought into being. This, to almost one in four people alive today, is a matter of more than mere historical interest. Infinitely more – for it touches, in their opinion, on the very nature of the Divine. The question of what it was that had brought the Magaritai to Herakleopolis, and to numerous other cities besides, has lain, for many centuries now, at the heart of a great and global religion: Islam.

It was the prompting hand of God, not a mere wanton desire to extort sheep, that had first motivated the Arabs to leave their desert homeland. Such, at any rate, was the conviction of Ibn Hisham, a scholar based in Egypt who wrote a century and a half after the first appearance of the Magaritai in Herakleopolis, but whose fascination with the period, and with the remarkable events that had stamped it, was all-consuming. No longer, by AD 800, were the Magaritai to be reckoned a novelty. Instead – known now as "Muslims", or "those who submit to God" – they had succeeded in winning for themselves a vast agglomeration of territories: an authentically global empire. Ibn Hisham, looking back at the age which had first seen the Arabs grow conscious of themselves as a chosen people, and surrounded as he was by the ruins of superceded civilisations, certainly had no lack of pages to fill.

What was it that had brought the Arabs as conquerors to cities such as Herakleopolis, and far beyond? The ambition of Ibn Hisham was to provide an answer. The story he told was that of an Arab who had lived almost two centuries previously, and been chosen by God as the seal of His prophets: Muhammad. Although Ibn Hisham was himself certainly drawing on earlier material, his is the oldest biography to have survived, in the form we have it, into the present day. The details it provided would become fundamental to the way that Muslims have interpreted their faith ever since. That Muhammad had received a series of divine revelations; that he had grown up in the depths of Arabia, in a pagan metropolis, Mecca; that he had fled it for another city, Yathrib, where he had established the primal Muslim state; that this flight, or hijra, had transformed the entire order of time, and come to provide Muslims with their Year One: all this was enshrined to momentous effect by Ibn Hisham. The contrast between Islam and the age that had preceded it was rendered in his biography as clear as that between midday and the dead of night. The white radiance of Muhammad's revelations, blazing first across Arabia and then to the limits of the world, had served to bring all humanity into a new age of light.

The effect of this belief was to prove incalculable. To this day, even among non-Muslims, it continues to inform the way in which the history of the Middle East is interpreted and understood. Whether in books, museums or universities, the ancient world is imagined to have ended with the coming of Muhammad. Yet even on the presumption that what Islam teaches is correct, and that the revelations of Muhammad did indeed descend from heaven, it is still pushing things to imagine that the theatre of its conquests was suddenly conjured, over the span of a single generation, into a set from The Arabian Nights. That the Arab conquests were part of a much vaster and more protracted drama, the decline and fall of the Roman empire, has been too readily forgotten.

Place these conquests in their proper context and a different narrative emerges. Heeding the lesson taught by Gibbon back in the 18th century, that the barbarian invasions of Europe and the victories of the Saracens were different aspects of the same phenomenon, serves to open up vistas of drama unhinted at by the traditional Muslim narratives. The landscape through which the Magaritai rode was certainly not unique to Egypt. In the west too, there were provinces that had witnessed the retreat and collapse of a superpower, the depredations of foreign invaders, and the desperate struggle of locals to fashion a new security for themselves. Only in the past few decades has this perspective been restored to its proper place in the academic spotlight. Yet it is curious that long before the historian Peter Brown came to write his seminal volume The World of Late Antiquity – which traced, to influential effect, patterns throughout the half millennium between Marcus Aurelius and the founding of Baghdad – a number of bestselling novelists had got there first. What their work served to demonstrate was that the fall of the Roman empire, even a millennium and a half on, had lost none of its power to inspire gripping narratives.

"There were nearly twenty-five million inhabited planets in the Galaxy then, and not one but owed allegiance to the Empire whose seat was on Trantor. It was the last half-century in which that could be said." So begins Isaac Asimov's Foundation, a self-conscious attempt to relocate Gibbon's magnum opus to outer space. First published in 1951, it portrayed a galactic imperium on the verge of collapse, and the attempt by an enlightened band of scientists to insure that eventual renaissance would follow its fall. The influence of the novel, and its two sequels, has been huge, and can be seen in every subsequent sci-fi epic that portrays sprawling empires set among the stars – from Star Wars to Battlestar Galactica. Unlike most of his epigoni, however, Asimov drew direct sustenance from his historical model. The parabola of Asimov's narrative closely follows that of Gibbon. Plenipotentiaries visit imperial outposts for the last time; interstellar equivalents of Frankish or Ostrogothic kingdoms sprout on the edge of the Milky Way; the empire, just as its Roman precursor had done under Justinian, attempts a comeback. Most intriguingly of all, in the second novel of the series, we are introduced to an enigmatic character named the Mule, who emerges seemingly from nowhere to transform the patterns of thought of billions, and conquer much of the galaxy. The context makes it fairly clear that he is intended to echo Muhammad. In an unflattering homage to Muslim tradition, Asimov even casts the Mule as a mutant, a freak of nature so unexpected that nothing in human science could possibly have explained or anticipated him.

Parallels with the tales told of Muhammad are self-evident in a second great epic of interstellar empire, Frank Herbert's Dune. A prophet arises from the depths of a desert world to humiliate an empire and launch a holy war – a jihad. Herbert's hero, Paul Atreides, is a man whose sense of supernatural mission is shadowed by self-doubt. "I cannot do the simplest thing," he reflects, "without its becoming a legend." Time will prove him correct. Without ever quite intending it, he founds a new religion, and launches a wave of conquest that ends up convulsing the galaxy. In the end, we know, there will be "only legend, and nothing to stop the jihad".

There is an irony in this, an echo not only of the spectacular growth of the historical caliphate, but of how the traditions told about Muhammad evolved as well. Ibn Hisham's biography may have been the first to survive – but it was not the last. As the years went by, and ever more lives of the Prophet came to be written, so the details grew ever more miraculous. Fresh evidence – wholly unsuspected by Muhammad's earliest biographers – would see him revered as a man able to foretell the future, to receive messages from camels, and to pick up a soldier's eyeball, reinsert it, and make it work better than before. The result was yet one more miracle: the further in time from the Prophet a biographer, the more extensive his biography was likely to be.

Herbert's novel counterpoints snatches of unreliable biography – in which Paul has become "Muad'Dib", the legendary "Dune Messiah" – with the main body of the narrative, which reveals a more secular truth. Such, of course, is the prerogative of fiction. Nevertheless, it does suggest, for the historian, an unsettling question: to what extent might the traditions told by Muslims about their prophet contradict the actual reality of the historical Muhammad? Nor is it only western scholars who are prone to asking this – so too, for instance, are Salafists, keen as they are to strip away the accretions of centuries, and reveal to the faithful the full unspotted purity of the primal Muslim state. But what if, after all the cladding has been torn down, there is nothing much left, beyond the odd receipt for sheep? That Muhammad existed is evident from the scattered testimony of Christian near-contemporaries, and that the Magaritai themselves believed a new order of time to have been ushered in is clear from their mention of a "Year 22". But do we see in the mirror held up by Ibn Hisham, and the biographers who followed him, an authentic reflection of Muhammad's life – or something distorted out of recognition by a combination of awe and the passage of time?

There may be a lack of early Muslim sources for Muhammad's life, but in other regions of the former Roman empire there are even more haunting silences. The deepest of all, perhaps, is the one that settled over the one-time province of Britannia. Around 800AD, at the same time as Ibn Hisham was drawing up a list of nine engagements in which Muhammad was said personally to have fought, a monk in the far distant wilds of Wales was compiling a very similar record of victories, 12 in total, all of them attributable to a single leader, and cast by their historian as indubitable proof of the blessings of God. The name of the monk was Nennius; and the name of his hero – who was supposed to have lived long before – was Arthur. The British warlord, like the Arab prophet, was destined to have an enduring afterlife. The same centuries which would see Muslim historians fashion ever more detailed and loving histories of Muhammad and his companions would also witness, far beyond the frontiers of the caliphate, the gradual transformation of the mysterious Arthur and his henchmen into the model of a Christian court. The battles listed by Nennius would come largely to be forgotten: in their place, haunting the imaginings of all Christendom, would be the conviction that there had once existed a realm where the strong had protected the weak, where the bravest warriors had been the purest in heart, and where a sense of Christian fellowship had bound everyone to the upholding of a common order. The ideal was to prove a precious one – so much so that to this day, there remains a mystique attached to the name of Camelot.

Nor was the world of Arthur the only dimension of magic and mystery to have emerged out of the shattered landscape of the one-time Roman empire. The English, the invaders against whom Arthur was supposed to have fought, told their own extraordinary tales. Gawping at the crumbling masonry of Roman towns, they saw in it "the work of giants". Gazing into the shadows beyond their halls, they imagined ylfe ond orcnéas, and orthanc enta geweorc – "elves and orcs", and "the skilful work of giants". These stories, in turn, were only a part of the great swirl of epic, Gothic and Frankish and Norse, which preserved in their verses the memory of terrible battles, and mighty kings, and the rise and fall of empires: trace-elements of the death-agony of Roman greatness. Most of these poems, though, like the kingdoms that were so often their themes, no longer exist. They are fragments, or mere rumours of fragments. The wonder-haunted fantasies of post-Roman Europe have themselves become spectres and phantasms. "Alas for the lost lore, the annals and old poets."

So wrote JRR Tolkien, philologist, scholar of Old English, and a man so convinced of the abiding potency of the vanished world of epic that he devoted his life to conjuring it back into being. The Lord of the Rings may not be an allegory of the fall of the Roman empire, but it is shot through with echoes of the sound and fury of that "awful scene". What happened and what might have happened swirl, and meet, and merge. An elf quotes a poem on an abandoned Roman town. Horsemen with Old English names ride to the rescue of a city that is vast and beautiful, and yet, like Constantinople in the wake of the Arab conquests, "falling year by year into decay". Armies of a Dark Lord repeat the strategy of Attila in the battle of the Catalaunian plains – and suffer a similar fate. Tolkien's ambition, so Tom Shippey has written, "was to give back to his own country the legends that had been taken from it". In the event, his achievement was something even more startling. Such was the popularity of The Lord of the Rings, and such its influence on an entire genre of fiction, that it breathed new life into what for centuries had been the merest bones of an entire but forgotten worldscape.

It would seem, then, that when an empire as great as Rome's declines and falls, the reverberations can be made to echo even in outer space, even in a mythical Middle Earth. In the east as in the west, in the Fertile Crescent as in Britain, what emerged from the empire's collapse, forged over many centuries, were new identities, new values, new presumptions. Indeed, many of these would end up taking on such a life of their own that the very circumstances of their birth would come to be obscured – and on occasion forgotten completely. The age that had witnessed the collapse of Roman power, refashioned by those looking back to it centuries later in the image of their own times, was cast by them as one of wonders and miracles, irradiated by the supernatural, and by the bravery of heroes. The potency of that vision is one that still blazes today.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 30, 2012, 10:43:08 PM
My current read is The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Rise-Fall-Ancient-Egypt/dp/0747599491) by Toby Wilkinson. I'm enjoying it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 31, 2012, 03:14:34 AM
Quote from: Josephus on March 30, 2012, 10:02:16 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 16, 2012, 05:12:18 PM
Apparently you people don't read books no more. All Nintendos and shit these days I guess.


Nah we were just wondering who Savronela was.

For shame. How can you have forgotten? It's only been 10 years.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2012, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 16, 2012, 07:03:03 PM
Finally got to reading, A Day of Battle by David Ascoli. About half way through it and very good so far. Incompetently led French vs. Aggressively led Prussian/Germans. Had the French even been led by average leadership, they could have capitalized on some serious Kraut errors.

And still gotten steamrolled by an army twice as big as theirs.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 31, 2012, 03:09:56 PM
PRC,

You had me at Tom Holland.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on March 31, 2012, 06:40:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 30, 2012, 10:43:08 PM
My current read is The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Rise-Fall-Ancient-Egypt/dp/0747599491) by Toby Wilkinson. I'm enjoying it.

I read that   it's really, really good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on March 31, 2012, 06:52:51 PM
This thread reminds me, I really should make the effort to read an additional book this year.  :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 31, 2012, 10:35:10 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 31, 2012, 06:40:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 30, 2012, 10:43:08 PM
My current read is The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Rise-Fall-Ancient-Egypt/dp/0747599491) by Toby Wilkinson. I'm enjoying it.

I read that   it's really, really good.

Yeah. I admit I didn't know very much about ancient Egyptian history, and therefore Old Egypt was for me a rather monolithic entity with a rather fixed set of religious beliefs, pyramids and the occasional battle. The constant changes in politics, culture and spirituality Wilkinson describes are a bit of an eye opener.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 05, 2012, 11:41:07 PM
For Brain:

Bestiality: An Historical, Medical, Legal and Literary Study (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bestiality-Historical-Medical-Legal-Literary/dp/1410209474/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333687144&sr=1-3)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 06, 2012, 01:22:23 AM
Just finished Let Our Fame Be Great.

It's by a British journalist based in Russia who travels to the North Caucasus and to the diaspora communities and tells the history of Russia's involvement in the region.  Largely it's a history of massacres and mostly forgotten genocides.  The first two parts deal with the Circassians and the Mountain Turks, the last two with Chechnya.

Not outstanding but worth reading.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 06, 2012, 02:07:15 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 05, 2012, 11:41:07 PM
For Brain:

Bestiality: An Historical, Medical, Legal and Literary Study (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bestiality-Historical-Medical-Legal-Literary/dp/1410209474/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333687144&sr=1-3)

Somewhat weird book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 20, 2012, 09:37:15 AM
Just started Dominic Sandbrook's 'Never Had it So Good: A History of Britain from Suez to the Beatles'.  I think after this there's 'White Heat' covering the Wilson years (:mmm:) and a book on the early 70s so I've plenty to get through.

It's very interesting so far a lot of it covers the same ground as Peter Hennessy's books on the same era but with a slightly lighter touch.  I also think this is slightly better at conveying MacMillan's character.

So far though it's good.  Worth a read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on April 20, 2012, 03:42:56 PM
Read a couple good things lately.
I'm surprised only one other (I think) person commented on Umberto Eco's Prague Cemetery. It was almost written for a Languish audience taking place as it does in the end of the 19th century with scenes set during Garibaldi's run to unify Italy, the Dreyfuss Affair and the writing of the Protocols of Zion. REally a well done book.

I've also just finished Wade Davis' Into The Silence, (The Great War, Mallory and the Conquest of Everest) which is somewhat self-explanatory. A very good read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on April 20, 2012, 05:13:19 PM
Quote from: Josephus on April 20, 2012, 03:42:56 PM
Read a couple good things lately.
I'm surprised only one other (I think) person commented on Umberto Eco's Prague Cemetery. It was almost written for a Languish audience taking place as it does in the end of the 19th century with scenes set during Garibaldi's run to unify Italy, the Dreyfuss Affair and the writing of the Protocols of Zion. REally a well done book.

:yes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on April 20, 2012, 08:09:11 PM
Reading the Deathstalker series. Shlocky sci fi space opera, fun read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on April 20, 2012, 09:07:44 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on April 20, 2012, 08:09:11 PM
Reading the Deathstalker series. Shlocky sci fi space opera, fun read.

That series gets progressively worse.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on April 20, 2012, 09:14:21 PM
I saw on Wikipedia that the last few books are set in some weird future time, so I won't bother with those unless  I get them cheap.


I will admit I really liked the toy wars and the reformed mass murderer presiding over them in a Santa outfit.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on April 20, 2012, 09:15:46 PM
I think Simon Green was high when he wrote those books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on April 20, 2012, 09:30:03 PM
He was on something.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valdemar on April 23, 2012, 02:54:24 AM
Finally got around to starting "world without end" by Ken Follet, the sort of follower to Pillars of the Earth that I read a decade or so ago.

It keeps me entertained, but doesn't really have the same qualities as Pillars did, I am a tad disappointed.

V
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on April 23, 2012, 07:25:32 AM
Problem with World Without End is that it was pretty much the same story as the first, set some hundred years later. Doesn't have the same ooomph as the original.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on April 29, 2012, 10:02:45 PM
Wife and I dumped the kid for the night on his grandparents. :thumbsup:

We went out for supper (the elsewhere mentioned underwhelming italian restaurant), then went to the bookstore.

We bought some books on potty training.   :huh:

Plus for daddy - I bought 1493 (on the Columbian exchange of plants and animals post-1492), and...

The Wind In The Willows.   :cool:

Haven't read Wind in the Willows for 25 years or so, but so far as fucking good as I vaguely remember it to be. :punk:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: katmai on April 29, 2012, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 29, 2012, 10:02:45 PM
Wife and I dumped the kid for the night on his grandparents. :thumbsup:

We went out for supper (the elsewhere mentioned underwhelming italian restaurant), then went to the bookstore.

We bought some books on potty training.   :huh:

Plus for daddy - I bought 1493 (on the Columbian exchange of plants and animals post-1492), and...

The Wind In The Willows.   :cool:

Haven't read Wind in the Willows for 25 years or so, but so far as fucking good as I vaguely remember it to be. :punk:


See i would never comment Thrilling on this post.
No siree!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on April 29, 2012, 10:06:12 PM
Quote from: katmai on April 29, 2012, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 29, 2012, 10:02:45 PM
Wife and I dumped the kid for the night on his grandparents. :thumbsup:

We went out for supper (the elsewhere mentioned underwhelming italian restaurant), then went to the bookstore.

We bought some books on potty training.   :huh:

Plus for daddy - I bought 1493 (on the Columbian exchange of plants and animals post-1492), and...

The Wind In The Willows.   :cool:

Haven't read Wind in the Willows for 25 years or so, but so far as fucking good as I vaguely remember it to be. :punk:


See i would never comment Thrilling on this post.
No siree!

Don'y you dare try your sarcasm about a post on a time-honoured children's classic. :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: katmai on April 29, 2012, 10:07:18 PM
The movie is better!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on April 29, 2012, 10:08:24 PM
I haven't read shit in months.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 29, 2012, 11:16:58 PM
Mine is somewhat loose. And very dark.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on April 30, 2012, 07:14:02 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 29, 2012, 10:02:45 PM
Wife and I dumped the kid for the night on his grandparents. :thumbsup:


The Wind In The Willows.   :cool:

Haven't read Wind in the Willows for 25 years or so, but so far as fucking good as I vaguely remember it to be. :punk:

Wind in the Willows is awesome :hug:

The chapter Piper At The Gates of Dawn is surreal. (also the name of Pink Floyd's first record...bit of trivia there for you)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on April 30, 2012, 09:45:41 AM
Read Knockemstiff by Donald Pollock. Short stories about white trash in southern Ohio. Brilliantly written, somewhat disturbing. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 30, 2012, 09:50:54 AM
Quote from: Gups on April 30, 2012, 09:45:41 AM
Read Knockemstiff by Donald Pollock. Short stories about white trash in southern Ohio. Brilliantly written, somewhat disturbing.

Heh, I've been reading stuff of that ilk recently.

Check out The Devil All The Time, same author. I liked it better than Knockemstiff - it's a novel set very much in the same setting. Definitely an author to watch.

Also, Edge of Dark Water by Joe Lansdale.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on April 30, 2012, 09:56:38 AM
Thanks Malthus, waiting for The Devil All The Time to come out in paperback/become cheaper at Amazon but will certainly buy.

The Lansdale sounds good.

You might like the Nick Harkaway books if you haven't tried them already. Urban fantasy with lots of humour.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on April 30, 2012, 11:17:54 AM
Looking for a book on the Great Game. Non-fiction, obviously. Anyone?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 30, 2012, 12:10:12 PM
Quote from: Gups on April 30, 2012, 09:56:38 AM
Thanks Malthus, waiting for The Devil All The Time to come out in paperback/become cheaper at Amazon but will certainly buy.

The Lansdale sounds good.

You might like the Nick Harkaway books if you haven't tried them already. Urban fantasy with lots of humour.

I'll check out The Gone-Away World ...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 30, 2012, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: Maladict on April 30, 2012, 11:17:54 AM
Looking for a book on the Great Game. Non-fiction, obviously. Anyone?

One I liked is called Shooting Leave. Adventures by mad Englishment spying out central asia in the Great Game.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: barkdreg on April 30, 2012, 12:25:59 PM
Ordered all the Culture novels from Iain M Banks on amazon. Goodbye, outdoor activities.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on April 30, 2012, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 29, 2012, 10:02:45 PM
Plus for daddy - I bought 1493 (on the Columbian exchange of plants and animals post-1492), and...

I am a few chapters away from finishing it.  There are a couple roll eye moments on some of the broad conclusions he reaches but the strength of the book is in the detailed research he has done.

The book is loaded with interesting factoids -  you will be an able cotributor in the history thread for some time. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on April 30, 2012, 02:28:45 PM
Finished volume I of God's Playground a few days ago.  Loved the last half.

Read both What It Is Like To Go To War and Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes.  Matterhorn has some hiccups, but was a pretty solid piece of (semi-autobiographical) fiction.  WIILTGTW is an excellent lesson on soldier psychology and a series of recommendations as to what we should to to prepare soldiers for war and to re-integrate them after.

Now off to a combination of books :

Volume II of God's Playground
A Knight's Own Book of Chivalry by Geoffroi de Charny
Six Weeks (The Short and Gallant Life of the British Officer in the First World War) by John Lewis-Stempel
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on April 30, 2012, 02:35:27 PM
Quote from: Maladict on April 30, 2012, 11:17:54 AM
Looking for a book on the Great Game. Non-fiction, obviously. Anyone?

Tournament of Shadows was a fun read.

http://www.amazon.com/Tournament-Shadows-Great-Empire-Central/dp/1582430284

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 30, 2012, 06:12:02 PM
Just put in my order for four Smiley titles with Penguin.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 03, 2012, 03:01:31 PM
Re-read Storm of Steel. Ernst Jünger is awesome. :wub:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on May 03, 2012, 04:29:20 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 30, 2012, 12:15:22 PM
One I liked is called Shooting Leave. Adventures by mad Englishment spying out central asia in the Great Game.
Quote from: Barrister on April 30, 2012, 02:35:27 PM
Tournament of Shadows was a fun read.
http://www.amazon.com/Tournament-Shadows-Great-Empire-Central/dp/1582430284

Thanks guys  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on May 04, 2012, 12:27:33 AM
Anyone know of any good books on Operation Market-Garden more recent that A Bridge too Far?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 04, 2012, 12:30:45 AM
It Never Snows in September is suppose to be good. Havent read it. That's the only suggest I got.


Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on May 04, 2012, 02:30:05 AM
Decided to continue my Loyalist/Canadian perspective tour of the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 by reading Simon Girty Turncoat Hero and 1812: War with America.  I had never actually heard of Girty before, despite his infamous reputation in the States during and after the war.  I guess he's much more of a Pennsylvania/Ohio/Michigan person, whereas I was raised far more in the Mohawk Valley/Cherry Valley/Iroquois traditions where I'm from.  Quite an interesting character to say the least.  I'm almost finished with his book and am expecting the other in the mail shortly. 

For the curious:
http://www.amazon.com/Simon-Girty-Turncoat-Phillip-Hoffman/dp/0984225633/ref=pd_ys_iyr6
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0674034775/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on May 12, 2012, 10:47:35 PM
Anyone have any WWI book recommendations? Anything is fine, but I would particularly like a book on the eastern front.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 11:58:43 PM
Quote from: Kleves on May 12, 2012, 10:47:35 PM
Anyone have any WWI book recommendations? Anything is fine, but I would particularly like a book on the eastern front.

Storm of Steel, obviously. The White War: Life And Death On The Italian Front 1915-1919 by Mark Thompson I found really enjoyable. Hew Strachan's The First World War vol 1 is a must if you're serious about WW1.

But the east is harder... Not that many books in English that I'm aware of. I recently read The Eastern Front 1914-1917 by Norman Stone. A reasonable introduction to the subject, but it's from 1975.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 13, 2012, 12:25:08 AM
I second Brain's suggestions. Also, Keegan's First World War is a classic. For a more general overview (including politics/economics etc.) I suggest Stephenson's 1914-1918 (I like it better than Keegan, actually, because Keegan focuses on the military part; but Keegan is more readable). And there's of course Guns of August by Barbara Tuchman about the first weeks of the war.

Slightly related, there's Davies' White Eagle - Red Star about the Polish-Soviet War 1919/20, and Orlando Figes' A People's Tragedy which covers revolutionary Russia 1895-1922.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kolytsin on May 13, 2012, 12:25:48 AM
I've heard of Norman Stone before, but never read his book.  Good books depend on what you are looking to investigate.  To copy some references from my copy of Makers of Modern Strategy, tactics are analyzed by Timothy Lupfer, The Dynamics of Doctrine: The Changes in German Tactic Doctrine during the First World War (1981).  Outstanding are Tony Ashworth, Trench Warfare 1914-1918: The Live and Let Live System (1980) and Eric J. Leed, No Man's Land: Combat and Identity in World War I.  The grand military-political treatment of World War I are covered by Gerhard Ritter, The Sword and the Scepter: The Problem of Militarism in Germany (1967-1973), especially volume. 4 "The Reign of German Militarism and the Disaster of 1918"   If you want to study the nature of World War I, you should try The Century of Total War (1954) or the sober assessment by Geoffrey Best, Humanity in Warfare (1980)

On the Russian army on the eve of the first world war see Allan K. Wildman, The End of the Russian Imperial Army: The Old Army and the Soldier's Revolt or D.C.B. Lieven, Russia and the Origins of the First World War.  You can also try Florence Farmborough,  With the Armies of the Tsar: A Nurse at the Russian Front, 1914-1918 or Sir Alfred Knox  With The Russian Army, 1914-1918
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2012, 07:08:16 AM
I'm about half way through my Smiley books and the realization struck me that Le Carre writes very similarly to Iris Murdoch.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 13, 2012, 08:35:00 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2012, 07:08:16 AM
I'm about half way through my Smiley books and the realization struck me that Le Carre writes very similarly to Iris Murdoch.  :D

Porn?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 13, 2012, 11:16:20 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2012, 07:08:16 AM
I'm about half way through my Smiley books and the realization struck me that Le Carre writes very similarly to Iris Murdoch.  :D
:o  I don't think so.

Though I LOVE them both :mmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on May 13, 2012, 07:59:12 PM
I'm rereading the Gandalf's a Dick Trilogy for the second time.

I don't know why I like Abercrombie's stuff.  But I do.  And that scares me.

Oh, Amazon has a sale on kindle editions of 20 novels that were made into films.  99 cents each.  Including slaughterhouse Five, I Am Legend, Soylent Green, Lonely are the Brave, and others.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 14, 2012, 08:57:09 AM
Started the new John Irving book. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 14, 2012, 01:32:47 PM
I ordered a Turtledove book through the Interlibrary loan. I feel unclean.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 14, 2012, 01:35:40 PM
Last night I read:

The Potty Book (for boys) - surprising the kid likes this book a lot; and
The Cat in the Hat Comes Back - you know what, the Cat in the Hat is kind of a dick
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 14, 2012, 03:11:21 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 14, 2012, 01:35:40 PM
Last night I read:

The Potty Book (for boys) - surprising the kid likes this book a lot; and
The Cat in the Hat Comes Back - you know what, the Cat in the Hat is kind of a dick

Is that your opinion or your kid's?

"Daddy, I like the potty book, but that cat in the hat? Well...he's a dick."

:D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 14, 2012, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 14, 2012, 03:11:21 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 14, 2012, 01:35:40 PM
Last night I read:

The Potty Book (for boys) - surprising the kid likes this book a lot; and
The Cat in the Hat Comes Back - you know what, the Cat in the Hat is kind of a dick

Is that your opinion or your kid's?

"Daddy, I like the potty book, but that cat in the hat? Well...he's a dick."

:D

:D

Nah, the kid loves the Cat in the Hat.  On literally every single page, if the Cat in the Hat isn't front and centre of the illustration he asks "Wheres Cat?"
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 14, 2012, 06:54:01 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 20, 2012, 09:37:15 AM
Just started Dominic Sandbrook's 'Never Had it So Good: A History of Britain from Suez to the Beatles'.  I think after this there's 'White Heat' covering the Wilson years (:mmm:) and a book on the early 70s so I've plenty to get through.

It's very interesting so far a lot of it covers the same ground as Peter Hennessy's books on the same era but with a slightly lighter touch.  I also think this is slightly better at conveying MacMillan's character.

So far though it's good.  Worth a read.
Finished this and there's two interesting features that you get from the book as a whole.  One is that it's probably the most negative book on MacMillan I've ever read.  I could be wrong but I think Sandbrook thinks other historians are rather beguiled by MacMillan because he's very interesting, intelligent, charming and witty.  His own verdict is that he is all of those things and very much a failure.  It's quite damning.  Which is an interesting corrective opinion.

The second really interesting thing at the end is the narrative of Alec Douglas Home becoming PM.  I had no idea he was quite as devious as he was.  Almost House of Cards-ish moments of manipulation going on.

I'm looking forward to the second volume - it's all about Wilson :mmm:

Edit:  Another interesting point is that the most interesting/unusual figure described is Enoch Powell.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 31, 2012, 10:16:06 AM
Started on David Stevenson's With Our Backs To The Wall: Victory and Defeat in 1918. Very promising so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on May 31, 2012, 10:26:46 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 14, 2012, 06:54:01 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 20, 2012, 09:37:15 AM
Just started Dominic Sandbrook's 'Never Had it So Good: A History of Britain from Suez to the Beatles'.  I think after this there's 'White Heat' covering the Wilson years (:mmm:) and a book on the early 70s so I've plenty to get through.

It's very interesting so far a lot of it covers the same ground as Peter Hennessy's books on the same era but with a slightly lighter touch.  I also think this is slightly better at conveying MacMillan's character.

So far though it's good.  Worth a read.
Finished this and there's two interesting features that you get from the book as a whole.  One is that it's probably the most negative book on MacMillan I've ever read.  I could be wrong but I think Sandbrook thinks other historians are rather beguiled by MacMillan because he's very interesting, intelligent, charming and witty.  His own verdict is that he is all of those things and very much a failure.  It's quite damning.  Which is an interesting corrective opinion.

The second really interesting thing at the end is the narrative of Alec Douglas Home becoming PM.  I had no idea he was quite as devious as he was.  Almost House of Cards-ish moments of manipulation going on.

I'm looking forward to the second volume - it's all about Wilson :mmm:

Edit:  Another interesting point is that the most interesting/unusual figure described is Enoch Powell.

Shelf - Have you tried Kynaston's books - (so far) Austerity Britain and Family Britain?

If not, you'd like 'em a lot
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 16, 2012, 03:56:00 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2012, 10:16:06 AM
Started on David Stevenson's With Our Backs To The Wall: Victory and Defeat in 1918. Very promising so far.

And I finished it. It was excellent. Recommended.

I also started reading All The Kaiser's Men: The Life and Death of the German Soldier on the Western Front by Ian Passingham, but turned out it was horrible so I stopped after less than 20 pages. The inaccurate sweeping statements, self-contradictions and cereal box depth of analysis made it obvious that the author is less well equipped for intellectual pursuits.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on June 17, 2012, 11:21:14 AM
Star Force.  Worth finishing the series I guess. ?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on June 17, 2012, 12:42:55 PM
Just finished reading The Somme by Peter Hart. Fuck WW1 was a disgusting clusterfuck. Good book, but a little one-sided with very little about what the Germans were doing.

So, anyne have any tip about a book from the german perspective on the western front?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on June 17, 2012, 04:00:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 14, 2012, 01:35:40 PM
Last night I read:

The Potty Book (for boys) - surprising the kid likes this book a lot; and
The Cat in the Hat Comes Back - you know what, the Cat in the Hat is kind of a dick

For a kid who isn't potty trained, my kid every nights asks for "Potty Book" at story time.

:unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 18, 2012, 12:50:10 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 17, 2012, 12:42:55 PM
Just finished reading The Somme by Peter Hart. Fuck WW1 was a disgusting clusterfuck. Good book, but a little one-sided with very little about what the Germans were doing.

So, anyne have any tip about a book from the german perspective on the western front?

Not sure if there's that many specialized German view accounts of the battle.

These seem interesting:

Through German Eyes: The British and the Somme 1916 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Through-German-Eyes-British-Somme/dp/0297846892)
The German Army on the Somme 1914-1916 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-German-Army-Somme-1914-1916/dp/1844152693)

From a German perspective, Verdun would be the equivalent trauma of what the Somme 1916 was for the British.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on June 18, 2012, 01:10:39 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 18, 2012, 12:50:10 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 17, 2012, 12:42:55 PM
Just finished reading The Somme by Peter Hart. Fuck WW1 was a disgusting clusterfuck. Good book, but a little one-sided with very little about what the Germans were doing.

So, anyne have any tip about a book from the german perspective on the western front?

Not sure if there's that many specialized German view accounts of the battle.

These seem interesting:

Through German Eyes: The British and the Somme 1916 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Through-German-Eyes-British-Somme/dp/0297846892)
The German Army on the Somme 1914-1916 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-German-Army-Somme-1914-1916/dp/1844152693)

From a German perspective, Verdun would be the equivalent trauma of what the Somme 1916 was for the British.

I'm more looking for books about the whole war in the west from the german perspective. Or French for that matter. Those two books look interesting though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valdemar on June 18, 2012, 04:40:16 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 17, 2012, 04:00:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 14, 2012, 01:35:40 PM

For a kid who isn't potty trained, my kid every nights asks for "Potty Book" at story time.

:unsure:

You potty train using a book? What to you do, smack his behind with it when he fails you? :D

Seriously, best potty training is to take of the diaper during summer period, and be prepared to use the washing machine more often for a little while :)

V
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on June 24, 2012, 06:25:08 PM
Now reading Simon Schama's Citizens.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on June 24, 2012, 06:47:56 PM
PRC: that was a cool article a few pages back.

Mihali: did you ever finish The Map and the Territory?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 24, 2012, 07:03:34 PM
Reading Holland's In the Shadow of the Sword.

It is as good as you anticipated but not at all what you thought it might be....
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 27, 2012, 09:07:20 PM
Reading Victor Klemperer's "I Will Bear Witness," memoirs of living as a Jew in Nazi Germany.

Gotta say it's a bit of a snoozer so far.

January 13:  Ate potatoes, stayed inside, read a book.

January 16: Ate potatoes, stayed inside, read a different book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on June 27, 2012, 09:11:07 PM
Bought a book on Wednesday, which I intend to read by years end. :gasp:

It's a dictionary:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Chambers-Dictionary/dp/0550102892/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340849368&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Chambers-Dictionary/dp/0550102892/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340849368&sr=8-1)
:D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 28, 2012, 03:24:46 AM
Finnaly started digging into Zamulin's , Demolishing the Myth: The Tank Battle at Prokhorovka. Pro-Russian for sure, but not in the Propaganda or Fanboi way. Far more detailed on the Russian side than even Glantz's book. The guy sure did his research in the russian archives.  Dont know yet what I think of it. He does refute a Glantz theory and has interesting stuff on Rotmistrov (not highly regarded in JS's circle after Kursk).




Anyhoo awaiting; ZHITOMIR-BERDICHEV: German Operations West of Kiev 24 December 1943-31 January 1944 Volume 1 [Hardcover]. To come out   :yes: :yes:

and

DAYS OF BATTLE: Armoured Operations North of the River Danube, Hungary 1944-45 [Hardcover]



Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 28, 2012, 03:26:58 AM
Read A History of Medieval Heresy and Inquisition by Jennifer Kolpacoff Deane. A very nice introduction to the subject.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 28, 2012, 07:01:09 AM
Just ordered Glantz's two vol set BARBAROSSA DERAILED: THE BATTLE FOR SMOLENSK 10 JULY-10 SEPTEMBER 1941 . 1000 pages of east front fun.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 28, 2012, 07:23:54 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 24, 2012, 07:03:34 PM
Reading Holland's In the Shadow of the Sword.

It is as good as you anticipated but not at all what you thought it might be....
Can you elaborate?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on June 28, 2012, 07:31:21 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on June 18, 2012, 04:40:16 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 17, 2012, 04:00:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 14, 2012, 01:35:40 PM

For a kid who isn't potty trained, my kid every nights asks for "Potty Book" at story time.

:unsure:

You potty train using a book? What to you do, smack his behind with it when he fails you? :D

Seriously, best potty training is to take of the diaper during summer period, and be prepared to use the washing machine more often for a little while :)

V

No, we just bought him a book (about a little boy named Henry who learns to use the potty) to get him used to the idea.  But he really likes it, and asks to be read it almost every night. :mellow:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on July 03, 2012, 03:32:52 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 28, 2012, 07:23:54 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 24, 2012, 07:03:34 PM
Reading Holland's In the Shadow of the Sword.

It is as good as you anticipated but not at all what you thought it might be....
Can you elaborate?

I thought it would be yet another book giving the history of the rise and expansion of Islam.  What it turned out to be was a well argued refutation of the common starting point that Muhammad actually existed and then turns to explain the rise of Islam in terms of myth making which borrowed heavily form the surrounding social, political and religious context.

I find it particularly interesting because Islam has so much in common with Christianity both in terms in which its myths were constructed and the reasons they were constructed in such a manner.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 03, 2012, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 03, 2012, 03:32:52 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 28, 2012, 07:23:54 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 24, 2012, 07:03:34 PM
Reading Holland's In the Shadow of the Sword.

It is as good as you anticipated but not at all what you thought it might be....
Can you elaborate?

I thought it would be yet another book giving the history of the rise and expansion of Islam.  What it turned out to be was a well argued refutation of the common starting point that Muhammad actually existed and then turns to explain the rise of Islam in terms of myth making which borrowed heavily form the surrounding social, political and religious context.

I find it particularly interesting because Islam has so much in common with Christianity both in terms in which its myths were constructed and the reasons they were constructed in such a manner.

Interesting. I did not know that the actual existence of Mohammed was in dispute.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 03, 2012, 04:06:49 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 03, 2012, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 03, 2012, 03:32:52 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 28, 2012, 07:23:54 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 24, 2012, 07:03:34 PM
Reading Holland's In the Shadow of the Sword.

It is as good as you anticipated but not at all what you thought it might be....
Can you elaborate?

I thought it would be yet another book giving the history of the rise and expansion of Islam.  What it turned out to be was a well argued refutation of the common starting point that Muhammad actually existed and then turns to explain the rise of Islam in terms of myth making which borrowed heavily form the surrounding social, political and religious context.

I find it particularly interesting because Islam has so much in common with Christianity both in terms in which its myths were constructed and the reasons they were constructed in such a manner.

Interesting. I did not know that the actual existence of Mohammed was in dispute.

Yeah I wonder how well argued the refutation can be then.  After all, their are accounts of several tribes in Arabia with their "would-be" Mohammeds.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on July 03, 2012, 04:15:49 PM
Jonathan Fenby's The Penguin History of China (the fall and rise fo a great power, 1850-2009)

Excellent general introduction to the history of modern China from the last Emperors to post Olympics Beijing. Highly recommended.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on July 03, 2012, 04:29:10 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 03, 2012, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 03, 2012, 03:32:52 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 28, 2012, 07:23:54 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 24, 2012, 07:03:34 PM
Reading Holland's In the Shadow of the Sword.

It is as good as you anticipated but not at all what you thought it might be....
Can you elaborate?

I thought it would be yet another book giving the history of the rise and expansion of Islam.  What it turned out to be was a well argued refutation of the common starting point that Muhammad actually existed and then turns to explain the rise of Islam in terms of myth making which borrowed heavily form the surrounding social, political and religious context.

I find it particularly interesting because Islam has so much in common with Christianity both in terms in which its myths were constructed and the reasons they were constructed in such a manner.

Interesting. I did not know that the actual existence of Mohammed was in dispute.

Yeah, I didnt either.  But Holland makes a pretty convincing case.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on July 03, 2012, 04:31:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 03, 2012, 04:06:49 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 03, 2012, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 03, 2012, 03:32:52 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 28, 2012, 07:23:54 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 24, 2012, 07:03:34 PM
Reading Holland's In the Shadow of the Sword.

It is as good as you anticipated but not at all what you thought it might be....
Can you elaborate?

I thought it would be yet another book giving the history of the rise and expansion of Islam.  What it turned out to be was a well argued refutation of the common starting point that Muhammad actually existed and then turns to explain the rise of Islam in terms of myth making which borrowed heavily form the surrounding social, political and religious context.

I find it particularly interesting because Islam has so much in common with Christianity both in terms in which its myths were constructed and the reasons they were constructed in such a manner.

Interesting. I did not know that the actual existence of Mohammed was in dispute.

Yeah I wonder how well argued the refutation can be then.  After all, their are accounts of several tribes in Arabia with their "would-be" Mohammeds.

He makes reference to an account which had someone who could be a Mohammed type character but he goes on to explain that all the biographical material was written 200 yrs plus after his supposed life.  Nothing is written contemporaneously.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on July 04, 2012, 12:38:21 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 03, 2012, 04:29:10 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 03, 2012, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 03, 2012, 03:32:52 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 28, 2012, 07:23:54 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 24, 2012, 07:03:34 PM
Reading Holland's In the Shadow of the Sword.

It is as good as you anticipated but not at all what you thought it might be....
Can you elaborate?

I thought it would be yet another book giving the history of the rise and expansion of Islam.  What it turned out to be was a well argued refutation of the common starting point that Muhammad actually existed and then turns to explain the rise of Islam in terms of myth making which borrowed heavily form the surrounding social, political and religious context.

I find it particularly interesting because Islam has so much in common with Christianity both in terms in which its myths were constructed and the reasons they were constructed in such a manner.

Interesting. I did not know that the actual existence of Mohammed was in dispute.

Yeah, I didnt either.  But Holland makes a pretty convincing case.

So is the book banned in half of Europe yet?

Actually, that sounds pretty cool.  I may have to check this out, dude.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 04, 2012, 02:51:00 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 03, 2012, 04:31:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 03, 2012, 04:06:49 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 03, 2012, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 03, 2012, 03:32:52 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 28, 2012, 07:23:54 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 24, 2012, 07:03:34 PM
Reading Holland's In the Shadow of the Sword.

It is as good as you anticipated but not at all what you thought it might be....
Can you elaborate?

I thought it would be yet another book giving the history of the rise and expansion of Islam.  What it turned out to be was a well argued refutation of the common starting point that Muhammad actually existed and then turns to explain the rise of Islam in terms of myth making which borrowed heavily form the surrounding social, political and religious context.

I find it particularly interesting because Islam has so much in common with Christianity both in terms in which its myths were constructed and the reasons they were constructed in such a manner.

Interesting. I did not know that the actual existence of Mohammed was in dispute.

Yeah I wonder how well argued the refutation can be then.  After all, their are accounts of several tribes in Arabia with their "would-be" Mohammeds.

He makes reference to an account which had someone who could be a Mohammed type character but he goes on to explain that all the biographical material was written 200 yrs plus after his supposed life.  Nothing is written contemporaneously.
The Arabs were overrunning Byzantium's middle eastern territories ten years after Muhammad's death. How can there not be written evidence one way or the other that absolutely proves or disproves his existence? And if there is evidence that disproves it, how come none of Islam's enemies ever used it?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 04, 2012, 09:14:58 AM
Ask Ed. He feels a special kinship with Mohamed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 04, 2012, 09:16:13 AM
Quote from: The Brain on July 04, 2012, 09:14:58 AM
Ask Ed. He feels a special kinship with Mohamed.

BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT ISLAM
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 04, 2012, 09:17:31 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 04, 2012, 09:16:13 AM
Quote from: The Brain on July 04, 2012, 09:14:58 AM
Ask Ed. He feels a special kinship with Mohamed.

BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT ISLAM

No, the other one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on July 04, 2012, 09:34:00 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 04, 2012, 02:51:00 AM
The Arabs were overrunning Byzantium's middle eastern territories ten years after Muhammad's death. How can there not be no contemporary writings regarding him?written evidence one way or the other that absolutely proves or disproves his existence? And if there is evidence that disproves it, how come none of Islam's enemies ever used it?

Your first sentence almost got the point.  I will fix your first sentence to more closely approximate part of Holland's argument.

As to your second sentence it misses the point completely.  How can an enemy disprove the existence of Muhammad if he doesnt come into full existence for another 200 years?


Another interesting observation Holland makes is that some Muslim scholars are now questioning whether any of the sayings of the Prophet are genuine and many Muslim scholars quibble about which are geniune are which are not.  Holland doesnt say this but my observation is that Islam is now (and perhaps has always been) going through a process similar what Christianity when through when Christian scholars and theologians were trying to determine which texts were orthodox or heresies and the true nature of God, the son and the Holy ghost.  The difference is that Islam has never had something akin to the Catholic Church with the power to stamp out what it considered heresy  - although we can see efforts of the Wahibists trying to do that.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on July 04, 2012, 10:55:07 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 04, 2012, 09:34:00 AMThe difference is that Islam has never had something akin to the Catholic Church with the power to stamp out what it considered heresy  - although we can see efforts of the Wahibists trying to do that.

Tell that to Mr. Rashdie.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on July 04, 2012, 10:57:50 AM
Quote from: Josephus on July 04, 2012, 10:55:07 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 04, 2012, 09:34:00 AMThe difference is that Islam has never had something akin to the Catholic Church with the power to stamp out what it considered heresy  - although we can see efforts of the Wahibists trying to do that.

Tell that to Mr. Rashdie.

The fact that he is still around and writing tells me I dont have much to tell him....
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 05, 2012, 05:54:11 AM
PSA: If you didn't get Aliens Colonial Marines: Technical Manual in the 90s be advised that the artwork is pretty crappy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 06, 2012, 08:01:50 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 04, 2012, 09:34:00 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 04, 2012, 02:51:00 AM
The Arabs were overrunning Byzantium's middle eastern territories ten years after Muhammad's death. How can there not be no contemporary writings regarding him?written evidence one way or the other that absolutely proves or disproves his existence? And if there is evidence that disproves it, how come none of Islam's enemies ever used it?

Your first sentence almost got the point.  I will fix your first sentence to more closely approximate part of Holland's argument.

As to your second sentence it misses the point completely.  How can an enemy disprove the existence of Muhammad if he doesnt come into full existence for another 200 years?

The Arabs were recently united were they not? If not under Muhammad, then who? Surely the Byzantines must have mentioned him. The Arabs were Muslims were they not, or is the author arguing that Islam had not yet truly developed? Surely the Byzantines must have written about the heretical/heathen faith of their enemy. What they believed, who founded the heresy, etc. You're saying that the Byzantines and the Persians wrote nothing about the rulers, military leaders or religion of their enemies?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2012, 08:25:01 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on July 04, 2012, 12:38:21 AM
Actually, that sounds pretty cool.  I may have to check this out, dude.

I don't know, without having touched it - it sounds a bit more like fancy premise that serves to distract from actual history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2012, 08:26:54 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 06, 2012, 08:01:50 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 04, 2012, 09:34:00 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 04, 2012, 02:51:00 AM
The Arabs were overrunning Byzantium's middle eastern territories ten years after Muhammad's death. How can there not be no contemporary writings regarding him?written evidence one way or the other that absolutely proves or disproves his existence? And if there is evidence that disproves it, how come none of Islam's enemies ever used it?

Your first sentence almost got the point.  I will fix your first sentence to more closely approximate part of Holland's argument.

As to your second sentence it misses the point completely.  How can an enemy disprove the existence of Muhammad if he doesnt come into full existence for another 200 years?

The Arabs were recently united were they not? If not under Muhammad, then who? Surely the Byzantines must have mentioned him. The Arabs were Muslims were they not, or is the author arguing that Islam had not yet truly developed? Surely the Byzantines must have written about the heretical/heathen faith of their enemy. What they believed, who founded the heresy, etc. You're saying that the Byzantines and the Persians wrote nothing about the rulers, military leaders or religion of their enemies?

Well from here, most of the Arabs were not united by the death of Muhammad.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Muslim_Conquest.PNG
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2012, 08:40:05 AM
This article suggest Syriacs writing about him in 637.

http://syrcom.cua.edu/hugoye/Vol12No2/HV12N2Penn.pdf

Oh and Tim from what I've found questioning his existence isn't something new. Appears to have been a vogue notion in the 19th century?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on July 06, 2012, 12:51:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 06, 2012, 08:26:54 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 06, 2012, 08:01:50 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 04, 2012, 09:34:00 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 04, 2012, 02:51:00 AM
The Arabs were overrunning Byzantium's middle eastern territories ten years after Muhammad's death. How can there not be no contemporary writings regarding him?written evidence one way or the other that absolutely proves or disproves his existence? And if there is evidence that disproves it, how come none of Islam's enemies ever used it?

Your first sentence almost got the point.  I will fix your first sentence to more closely approximate part of Holland's argument.

As to your second sentence it misses the point completely.  How can an enemy disprove the existence of Muhammad if he doesnt come into full existence for another 200 years?

The Arabs were recently united were they not? If not under Muhammad, then who? Surely the Byzantines must have mentioned him. The Arabs were Muslims were they not, or is the author arguing that Islam had not yet truly developed? Surely the Byzantines must have written about the heretical/heathen faith of their enemy. What they believed, who founded the heresy, etc. You're saying that the Byzantines and the Persians wrote nothing about the rulers, military leaders or religion of their enemies?

Well from here, most of the Arabs were not united by the death of Muhammad.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Muslim_Conquest.PNG

Awww.  Did you draw that yourself?  I'm trying to figure out how this proves your point though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on July 08, 2012, 01:40:50 AM
Still reading Zamulin's,  Demolishing the Myth: The Tank Battle at Prokhorovka.. I'm around a 1/3 of the way through and only on the events of 8-9 July. It is the only book/account (on Kursk) that has given a description of 5th Guards Army and 5th Guards Tank Army's approach march to the Prokhorovka area. Fascinatingly detailed with transcriptions of the actual orders and daily reports. Zamulin is very critical of some of Vatutin's and Rotmistrov's actions. I haven't gotten to the part dealing with old JS's formal inquiry into Rotmistrov's losses at Prokhorovka. Apparently "Rots" damn near got executed for his handling of that battle. 

If you were to combine this book with Nipe's Blood, Steel, and Myth you pretty much have a solid, detailed, and well researched account of the southern axis from both sides. In the end these two books are limited in scope.

For a much broader account, covering the 9th Army offensive, Operation Kutuzov Operation Polkovodets Rumyantsev, and the fascinating battles around Bogodukhov, read Glantz's book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on July 08, 2012, 02:22:25 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 06, 2012, 08:01:50 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 04, 2012, 09:34:00 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 04, 2012, 02:51:00 AM
The Arabs were overrunning Byzantium's middle eastern territories ten years after Muhammad's death. How can there not be no contemporary writings regarding him?written evidence one way or the other that absolutely proves or disproves his existence? And if there is evidence that disproves it, how come none of Islam's enemies ever used it?

Your first sentence almost got the point.  I will fix your first sentence to more closely approximate part of Holland's argument.

As to your second sentence it misses the point completely.  How can an enemy disprove the existence of Muhammad if he doesnt come into full existence for another 200 years?

The Arabs were recently united were they not? If not under Muhammad, then who? Surely the Byzantines must have mentioned him. The Arabs were Muslims were they not, or is the author arguing that Islam had not yet truly developed? Surely the Byzantines must have written about the heretical/heathen faith of their enemy. What they believed, who founded the heresy, etc. You're saying that the Byzantines and the Persians wrote nothing about the rulers, military leaders or religion of their enemies?

Greeks are lazy.  What can be done?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on July 08, 2012, 09:27:21 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 04, 2012, 09:34:00 AM
Another interesting observation Holland makes is that some Muslim scholars are now questioning whether any of the sayings of the Prophet are genuine and many Muslim scholars quibble about which are geniune are which are not. 
They've been doing that for a thousand years.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 08, 2012, 10:15:15 AM
Quote from: Kleves on July 08, 2012, 09:27:21 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 04, 2012, 09:34:00 AM
Another interesting observation Holland makes is that some Muslim scholars are now questioning whether any of the sayings of the Prophet are genuine and many Muslim scholars quibble about which are geniune are which are not. 
They've been doing that for a thousand years.

Haven't most major religions?

You guys read some incredibly dry shit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 08, 2012, 10:28:17 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 08, 2012, 10:15:15 AM
You guys read some incredibly dry shit.

Then again, I can't really talk;  been plowing through this one myself:

http://www.usni.org/store/books/chinese-navy/red-star-over-pacific
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 08, 2012, 06:22:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 06, 2012, 12:51:30 PM
Awww.  Did you draw that yourself?  I'm trying to figure out how this proves your point though.

:huh:

Kid, you're just back - maybe you should stay a way from wild and odd attacks?

Anyway it was an aside in response to Tim's comment about the Arabs being united by Muhammad.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 13, 2012, 08:18:08 AM
Can anyone recommend a good book on Genghis Khan?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 13, 2012, 08:24:02 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 13, 2012, 08:28:21 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 13, 2012, 08:24:02 AM
Yes.
Well, recommend one then.  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 13, 2012, 08:35:48 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 13, 2012, 08:18:08 AM
Can anyone recommend a good book on Genghis Khan?

This is one case in which going to the original source is best even for the casual hobby historian - see if you can find a good translation of the Secret History of the Mongols. This one is said to be readable.

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-History-Mongols-Origin-Chingis/dp/0887272991/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1342185879&sr=8-8&keywords=%22secret+history+of+the+mongols%22

Great horse opera.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on July 13, 2012, 08:55:27 AM
I'm up to Book of 9 of Jordan's Wheel of Time.

You guys probably all hate it but I don't care, you are all snobs.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on July 13, 2012, 10:27:29 AM
I don't hate it.

Though I've never actually even heard of it... :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 13, 2012, 11:09:43 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 13, 2012, 08:55:27 AM
I'm up to Book of 9 of Jordan's Wheel of Time.

You guys probably all hate it but I don't care, you are all snobs.
The ending of book 9 is fucking awesome.

Book 10 is slow and not much happens, but book 11-13 are some of the best in the series.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 01, 2012, 02:00:21 PM
Just started to read a book on medieval political history and turns out the author is openly gay! :o
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 01, 2012, 04:32:09 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 13, 2012, 11:09:43 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 13, 2012, 08:55:27 AM
I'm up to Book of 9 of Jordan's Wheel of Time.

You guys probably all hate it but I don't care, you are all snobs.
The ending of book 9 is fucking awesome.

Book 10 is slow and not much happens, but book 11-13 are some of the best in the series.
Once someone else took a stronger hand in it yes. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 01, 2012, 08:41:11 PM
Looking for opinions on any of the following.
   
Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East
by Michael B. Oren

The Crossing of the Suez, Revised Edition
by Saad Shazly

WAR OF ATONEMENT: The Inside Story of the Yom Kippur War
by Chaim Herzog

The Yom Kippur War: The Epic Encounter That Transformed the Middle East
by Abraham Rabinovich

Duel for the Golan: The 100-Hour Battle That Saved Israel
Ashner

I have read through the years that I remember;
Arab-Israeli Wars(Herzog)
On the Banks of the Suez
Tanks of Tammuz
Fire and Steel: Israel's 7th Armored Brigade
Heights of Courage
No Victor, No Vanquished.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 02, 2012, 07:55:22 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 01, 2012, 08:41:11 PM
Looking for opinions on any of the following.
   
Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East
by Michael B. Oren

The Yom Kippur War: The Epic Encounter That Transformed the Middle East
by Abraham Rabinovich

I've read these two and they were both very good. More focussed on the politics than on the military action, perhaps, but all the better for that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 02, 2012, 10:03:52 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 02, 2012, 07:55:22 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 01, 2012, 08:41:11 PM
Looking for opinions on any of the following.
   
Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East
by Michael B. Oren

The Yom Kippur War: The Epic Encounter That Transformed the Middle East
by Abraham Rabinovich

I've read these two and they were both very good. More focussed on the politics than on the military action, perhaps, but all the better for that.

Thank ya Sir
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 02, 2012, 10:09:38 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 01, 2012, 08:41:11 PM
Looking for opinions on any of the following.
   
Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East

I think this one is the best I've read of the conflict.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 02, 2012, 10:21:56 PM
I've been reading To End All Wars about WW1 with a lot of focus on the anti-war movement. Pretty interesting - though also its the first book I've read about WW1.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 02, 2012, 10:26:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 02, 2012, 10:21:56 PM
I've been reading To End All Wars about WW1 with a lot of focus on the anti-war movement. Pretty interesting - though also its the first book I've read about WW1.

What I found most fascinating about the anti-war movement in WW1 was the number of organized women's movements, and how so much of the suffrage movement spilled over into it.

Alas, a lot of good trade unionists and socialists took it on the chin back then.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 03, 2012, 12:47:18 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 02, 2012, 10:21:56 PM
its the first book I've read about WW1.

Whaaaa...???!?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 03, 2012, 03:11:22 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 03, 2012, 12:47:18 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 02, 2012, 10:21:56 PM
its the first book I've read about WW1.

Whaaaa...???!?

Ya, know what interest me about WW1 is the Naval and Air shit. I find the land conflict...well boring. I find those parts of WW1 I like odd. Backwards to conflicts that followed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 03, 2012, 03:14:35 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 03, 2012, 03:11:22 AM
Ya, know what interest me about WW1 is the Naval and Air shit. I find the land conflict...well boring. I find those parts of WW1 I like odd. Backwards to conflicts that followed.

Read about the more fluid Eastern Front, then, or "The White War" about the struggle between Italy and Austria-Hungary in absolutely horrendous terrain.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 03, 2012, 03:22:01 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 01, 2012, 08:41:11 PM
Looking for opinions on any of the following.
   
Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East
by Michael B. Oren

Enjoyed this.

QuoteThe Yom Kippur War: The Epic Encounter That Transformed the Middle East
by Abraham Rabinovich
[/quote]

Did not enjoy this.  I don't need to know the name of every tank commander in the whole fucking IDF.

The author also had a tendency to overdramatize Israeli losses.  "The 6th battalion lost 29 of 32 tanks in their ill-planned attack.  The next morning the 6th battalion attacked again with 28 tanks."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 03, 2012, 06:45:00 AM
I also recommend the Oren book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on August 03, 2012, 06:48:21 AM
Keegan died.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 03, 2012, 07:03:14 AM
Well he was oldish.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on August 03, 2012, 08:09:52 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 03, 2012, 06:48:21 AM
Keegan died.
RIP.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 03, 2012, 08:37:26 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 03, 2012, 12:47:18 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 02, 2012, 10:21:56 PM
its the first book I've read about WW1.

Whaaaa...???!?

I've had no interest - I don't care a whit for military matters.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 03, 2012, 11:14:49 AM
Keegan must have been grumbler-old anyway. It is a loss though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 03, 2012, 11:18:13 AM
RIP.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 03, 2012, 11:21:00 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 03, 2012, 03:11:22 AM
Ya, know what interest me about WW1 is the Naval and Air shit. I find the land conflict...well boring. I find those parts of WW1 I like odd. Backwards to conflicts that followed.

I found a fascinating older book on US battleship operations in WWI once;  what was surprising about it was how it made so little sound like so much.  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on August 03, 2012, 11:21:41 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 03, 2012, 08:37:26 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 03, 2012, 12:47:18 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 02, 2012, 10:21:56 PM
its the first book I've read about WW1.

Whaaaa...???!?

I've had no interest - I don't care a whit for military matters.

You might like Dreadnought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadnought_%28book%29

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 03, 2012, 02:50:55 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 03, 2012, 03:22:01 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 01, 2012, 08:41:11 PM
Looking for opinions on any of the following.
   
Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East
by Michael B. Oren

Enjoyed this.

QuoteThe Yom Kippur War: The Epic Encounter That Transformed the Middle East
by Abraham Rabinovich

Did not enjoy this.  I don't need to know the name of every tank commander in the whole fucking IDF.

The author also had a tendency to overdramatize Israeli losses.  "The 6th battalion lost 29 of 32 tanks in their ill-planned attack.  The next morning the 6th battalion attacked again with 28 tanks."

That doesnt bother me. Read Glantz and you become immune to that style. BTW by all accounts I've read, the IDF was pretty good at tank recovery, cross attaching units, and filling units in willy-nilly. Those numbers dont surprise me. IDF was slapped hard in the opening days. IMO the ATGM was at home in the Sinai. The Eyptian crossing was brillant, but they shit the bed in the follow-on phases of the operation.

I'm re-reading Adan's book. Forgot what a good snap shot of how much a clusterfuck the IDF was in the first few days. His book is also scattered with bits on IDF tank recovery. Key point being the Egyptians werent aggressively exploiting and expanding their bridgeheads. That allowed the IDF to due that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 03, 2012, 04:23:53 PM
I understand the importance of tank recovery (one of Germany's great advantages in WWII if I'm not mistaken) but then don't overstate the losses.  Don't write ZOMG all the tanks were wiped out when the truth is most lost a track or something similar.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 03, 2012, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 03, 2012, 04:23:53 PM
I understand the importance of tank recovery (one of Germany's great advantages in WWII if I'm not mistaken) but then don't overstate the losses.  Don't write ZOMG all the tanks were wiped out when the truth is most lost a track or something similar.

Ahh got your meaning.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 03, 2012, 04:40:39 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 03, 2012, 02:50:55 PM

I'm re-reading Adan's book. Forgot what a good snap shot of how much a clusterfuck the IDF was in the first few days. His book is also scattered with bits on IDF tank recovery. Key point being the Egyptians werent aggressively exploiting and expanding their bridgeheads. That allowed the IDF to due that.

My understanding is that the Egyptians were reluctant to move lest that screw up the ability of their anti-aircraft missile defense to cover them. This allowed the initative to pass decisively to the IDF.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 03, 2012, 05:05:34 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 03, 2012, 04:40:39 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 03, 2012, 02:50:55 PM

I'm re-reading Adan's book. Forgot what a good snap shot of how much a clusterfuck the IDF was in the first few days. His book is also scattered with bits on IDF tank recovery. Key point being the Egyptians werent aggressively exploiting and expanding their bridgeheads. That allowed the IDF to due that.

My understanding is that the Egyptians were reluctant to move lest that screw up the ability of their anti-aircraft missile defense to cover them. This allowed the initative to pass decisively to the IDF.

Quite right. Doesnt mean it was the correct action. Hence "shit the bed".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 03, 2012, 05:42:40 PM
Definitely the right decision.  The one time they moved out of the SAM umbrella they got bombed all to shit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 03, 2012, 06:01:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 03, 2012, 05:42:40 PM
Definitely the right decision.  The one time they moved out of the SAM umbrella they got bombed all to shit.

Disagree
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on August 03, 2012, 08:23:46 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 03, 2012, 04:23:53 PM
I understand the importance of tank recovery (one of Germany's great advantages in WWII if I'm not mistaken) but then don't overstate the losses.  Don't write ZOMG all the tanks were wiped out when the truth is most lost a track or something similar.

Were the Germans really that good at tank recovery, I was pretty sure they weren't compared to the Americans.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 03, 2012, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: sbr on August 03, 2012, 08:23:46 PM
Were the Germans really that good at tank recovery, I was pretty sure they weren't compared to the Americans.

Never read anything about American tank recovery.  Have read that the Krauts were much better than the Limeys in North Africa.

I would sort of think that Americans wouldn't care all that much.  Just break the seal on a new one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 03, 2012, 09:52:37 PM
Quote from: sbr on August 03, 2012, 08:23:46 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 03, 2012, 04:23:53 PM
I understand the importance of tank recovery (one of Germany's great advantages in WWII if I'm not mistaken) but then don't overstate the losses.  Don't write ZOMG all the tanks were wiped out when the truth is most lost a track or something similar.

Were the Germans really that good at tank recovery, I was pretty sure they weren't compared to the Americans.

Yes, but it all depends. 

Are you attacking and gaining ground......or defending and retaining ground......easier to recover

Are you withdrawing and losing ground....or attacking and withdraw from the field.......much harder.


A good example is the results of a Battle on 12 July 1943. Prokhorovka
QuoteThe LSSAH permanently lost a grand total of 7 AFVs.  A further 25 were damaged and sent to repair shops, only 1 of which was a Tiger (note that no Tigers were destroyed).

Why did Leibstandarte only lose 7 AFV's? They retained possession of the battlefield.

QuoteThe Soviets, on the other hand, permanently lost at least 134 AFVs.  A further 125 were temporarily lost due to damage.

Why? the Russian withdrew from the field.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 03, 2012, 09:54:31 PM
And yes, I worked Prokhorovka into this discussion.   :blurgh:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on August 03, 2012, 09:56:44 PM
Kursk is a boring battle.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 03, 2012, 10:12:00 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 03, 2012, 09:56:44 PM
Kursk is a boring battle.

Not in the slightest.  :moon:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 04, 2012, 01:04:45 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 03, 2012, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: sbr on August 03, 2012, 08:23:46 PM
Were the Germans really that good at tank recovery, I was pretty sure they weren't compared to the Americans.

Never read anything about American tank recovery.  Have read that the Krauts were much better than the Limeys in North Africa.

I would sort of think that Americans wouldn't care all that much.  Just break the seal on a new one.

Americans were really good at tank recovery.  If a tank got knocked out, they write it off as a loss and ask for a replacement.  At the same time they'd fix up the old one.  The result was that units would often have more tanks in the field then they would on paper.  Gave them a big edge in firepower.  Disadvantage was that they didn't have enough trained crews.  It's would also play hell on logistics.

From what I've read the Soviets sucked at vehicle recovery.  They just lacked the skilled personnel to do it.  They had a hard time keeping trucks from breaking down and would frequently abandon trucks that mechanics in other countries could get back running in a few hours.

11B4v is right that retaining the field was probably the most important factor in vehicle recovery, but skilled mechanics may be a second.  You get skilled mechanics when your country has a well educated population with lots of cars.  The Soviet Union did not have that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 04, 2012, 11:08:48 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 03, 2012, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: sbr on August 03, 2012, 08:23:46 PM
Were the Germans really that good at tank recovery, I was pretty sure they weren't compared to the Americans.

Never read anything about American tank recovery.

I would sort of think that Americans wouldn't care all that much.  Just break the seal on a new one.

Whoa.  Just a bit outside, Yi.  :lol: :P

Not just the best book on American armored recovery, but perhaps one of the best written memoirs on the war overall:

Death Traps: The Survival of an American Armored Division in World War II (http://www.amazon.com/Death-Traps-Survival-American-Division/dp/0891418148/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344096160&sr=1-1)

Man, the shit that guy went through in tank recovery, every day.
QuoteLieutenant Cooper served with the 3rd Armored Division's Maintenance Battalion and saw action from Normandy to Germany in 1944-1945. One of the army's two heavy armored divisions, the 3rd lost 648 M4 Shermans and had another 700 tanks damaged, repaired and put back in service by the time the shooting ended in May 1945. Cooper, as one of the division's three ordnance liaison officers, was in the midst of the division's tank recovery operations. He writes about the tenacity of the maintenance mechanics and their ability to improvise and devise their own policies. Cooper is unsparing in his criticism of George S. Patton and other generals whose belief in mobility over heavy armor kept the Sherman medium tank as the standard. American tank crews quickly learned that these "death traps" were no match for heavier German tanks such as the Panther and King Tiger. Cooper describes the difficult maneuvering in the hedgerow country, the confusion of the Battle of the Bulge, the liberation of Nordhausen concentration camp and the destruction of an entire column of tanks and other vehicles. Cooper demonstrates convincingly that it was the unheralded work of the maintenance section that allowed the 3rd Armored Division to maintain its combat effectiveness. This detailed story will become a classic of WWII history and required reading for anyone interested in armored warfare.

Paperback, and a fast read.  You will thoroughly enjoy it.

My grand-uncle Bill was a gunny sergeant in a repair unit in the 3rd Tank Battalion 3rd Marines in the Pacific;  27 straight months doing tank recovery and repair on Guam, Guadalcanal, Bougainville and finally Iwo Jima.  They took their tanks seriously.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 04, 2012, 11:10:10 AM
That is one I've been meaning to get for a long time.  Never had the time though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on August 04, 2012, 04:16:08 PM
just about finished Kem Nunn's (not so well known as Tapping the Source, or Dogs of winter) second novel: Unassigned Territory. Quality stuff. Very John From Cincinnati, minus the surfing and with weird area 51 stuff instead of/mixed with the religion.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on August 04, 2012, 11:55:38 PM
I was in a used bookshop the other day and there was this giant, magisterial-looking book on the Battle of the Atlantic.  I was about to buy it when I realized it'd been signed so it was being sold for $100.  FUCK YOU PROF NO ONE CARES.

I got a book about Mongols in Russian instead.  It's still in my car because I'm lazy busy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 05, 2012, 01:32:23 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 04, 2012, 11:55:38 PM
.  It's still in my car because I'm lazy busy.

You do that too, huh.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 05, 2012, 02:40:10 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 03, 2012, 05:05:34 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 03, 2012, 04:40:39 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 03, 2012, 02:50:55 PM

I'm re-reading Adan's book. Forgot what a good snap shot of how much a clusterfuck the IDF was in the first few days. His book is also scattered with bits on IDF tank recovery. Key point being the Egyptians werent aggressively exploiting and expanding their bridgeheads. That allowed the IDF to due that.

My understanding is that the Egyptians were reluctant to move lest that screw up the ability of their anti-aircraft missile defense to cover them. This allowed the initative to pass decisively to the IDF.

Quite right. Doesnt mean it was the correct action. Hence "shit the bed".

Fair enough, but the Egyptian ability to exploit their initial successes was pretty limited - in an mobile, all-arms battle the Israelis had the advantages. Still, waiting passively for them to stick the knife in was clearly not a good idea ...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 17, 2012, 06:59:50 AM
Finished "Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt". It was pretty illuminating for the 3000 years (from First Dynasty to Cleopatra), and the decline in the last millenium BC was rather interesting to read.

Currently reading "The Inheritance of Rome - Europe 400-1000" from Penguin's History of Europe series. I like the author's attempt to try to look at the events and developments from the perspective of people at the time (did their decision make sense at the time), and trying to limit the hindsight evaluation.

Another book that made it onto my "I have to read this" list:

"Vanished Kingdoms: The History of Half-Forgotten Europe"
Quote'The past is a foreign country' has become a truism, yet we often forget that the past is different from the present in many unfamiliar ways, and historical memory is extraordinarily imperfect. We habitually think of the European past as the history of countries which exist today - France, Germany, Britain, Russia and so on - but often this actually obstructs our view of the past, and blunts our sensitivity to the ever-changing political landscape. Europe's history is littered with kingdoms, duchies, empires and republics which have now disappeared but which were once fixtures on the map of their age - 'the Empire of Aragon' which once dominated the western Mediterranean; the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, for a time the largest country in Europe; the successive kingdoms (and one duchy) of Burgundy, much of whose history is now half-remembered - or half-forgotten - at best. This book shows the reader how to peer through the cracks of mainstream history writing and listen to the echoes of lost realms across the centuries. How many British people know that Glasgow was founded by the Welsh in a period when neither England nor Scotland existed? How many of us will remember the former Soviet Union in a few generations' time? Will our own United Kingdom become a distant memory too? As in his earlier celebrated books Europe: a history and The Isles, Norman Davies aims to subvert our established view of what seems familiar, and urges us to look and think again. This stimulating surprising book, full of unexpected stories, observations and connections, gives us a fresh and original perspective on the history of Europe.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 17, 2012, 07:40:04 AM
I saw Vanished Kingdoms and it seemed like a weird kludge.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 17, 2012, 08:36:03 AM
Reading, "A World Lit Only by Fire" about the Medieval world and the Renaissance.  It is good.

Just finished The Mistborn.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 17, 2012, 08:43:02 AM
I'm reading "When Baghdad Ruled the Muslim World" by Hugh Kennedy.  I enjoyed his "The Great Arab Conquests: How the Spread of Islam Changed the World We Live In".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 17, 2012, 08:53:47 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 17, 2012, 07:40:04 AM
I saw Vanished Kingdoms and it seemed like a weird kludge.

Thanks for the heads-up, I will seek out additional info before buying it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on August 17, 2012, 08:57:50 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 17, 2012, 08:53:47 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 17, 2012, 07:40:04 AM
I saw Vanished Kingdoms and it seemed like a weird kludge.

Thanks for the heads-up, I will seek out additional info before buying it.

It's not bad - I'm about halfway through.  A number of the "kingdoms" were long long long forgotten though, such as the Roman British kingdoms in England.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 17, 2012, 08:58:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 17, 2012, 08:53:47 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 17, 2012, 07:40:04 AM
I saw Vanished Kingdoms and it seemed like a weird kludge.

Thanks for the heads-up, I will seek out additional info before buying it.

Oh I mean I didn't read it thoroughly, just looked at it in a bookstore. As I flipped through it seemed similar to one of those king/queen biography books that just has a small chapter about each entry piece. To me I couldn't really understand how such a diverse group of nations should be in the same book just because they happened to have been in "Europe"

So on no account am I saying not to read it, just that it seemed rather odd to me as a work from my short look over it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 17, 2012, 09:03:19 AM
Gotcha.

Well, from a review I read it picked European states that "disappeared" from large to small and seemed to have a decent amount of oddities about them which is generally something I like. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 17, 2012, 09:18:45 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 01, 2012, 04:32:09 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 13, 2012, 11:09:43 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 13, 2012, 08:55:27 AM
I'm up to Book of 9 of Jordan's Wheel of Time.

You guys probably all hate it but I don't care, you are all snobs.
The ending of book 9 is fucking awesome.

Book 10 is slow and not much happens, but book 11-13 are some of the best in the series.
Once someone else took a stronger hand in it yes.
Jordan wrote book 11 :contract:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 21, 2012, 10:52:02 PM
Anyone read this book, or War Before Civilization? If so, what did you think?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2003/aug/16/20030816-105047-3673r/print/
QuoteCONSTANT BATTLES: THE MYTH OF THE PEACEFUL, NOBLE SAVAGE

By Steven A. LeBlanc, with Katherine E. Register

St. Martin's , $24.95, 271 pages. illus.

REVIEWED BY KEITH WINDSCHUTTLE

Prehistoric warfare is a topic that matters very much today because it has the ability to tell us a great deal about the human condition and even the human future. The nature and extent of warfare deep in our tribal past can help throw light on whether human beings are a fundamentally warlike or peaceful species. If the human condition has always been bound by warfare then a pessimism about the prospect of changing this and an investment in a heavily armed nation state would be the rational choice.

But if human nature is ultimately peaceable then it makes more sense to be optimistic, to believe all disputes can eventually be resolved nonviolently, and to work for an international order dedicated to negotiation and conciliation.

It is no secret that Western society is today radically divided by these assumptions, between Americans from Mars and Europeans from Venus. Moreover, most Western countries are themselves internally divided along similar lines, between pessimistic, hard-headed conservatives and optimistic, soft-hearted liberals.

Given the importance of the topic you would expect it to have attracted an enormous amount of debate among those who study prehistory. Yet Steven A. LeBlanc's new book "Constant Battles: The Myth of the Peaceful Noble Savage" is only the fifth major study of the issue to be published in English in the past 100 years. In fact, in all that time, Mr. LeBlanc is only the second author to unequivocally argue that, for most of its existence, homo sapiens has waged almost constant war on its own kind and that primeval society was far more warlike than any of its civilized successors.

Mr. Le Blanc's sole predecessor was Lawrence Keeley who revolutionized this debate in 1996 with an extraordinary work, "War Before Civilization." Mr. Keeley used archaeological evidence to show that prehistoric villages in both Europe and North America had almost all been constructed with fortifications and that a high proportion of the skeletal remains of their inhabitants showed they had been killed by weapons of war: spears, arrows, swords and clubs. Prehistoric massacre sites were common.

Mr. Keeley used anthropological studies to show that in most remaining tribal societies, whether Amazon Indians or New Guinea highlanders, comparative fatality rates from war were four to six times higher than even the worst experienced by modern nations, such as Germany and Russia in the 20th century. In tribal society, warfare was a recurring, annual, even seasonal occurrence.

Mr. Keeley's work was an academic treatise with all the scholarly paraphernalia of references, bibliography, tables and graphs. Mr. LeBlanc has taken the same message and tried to pitch it to a wider, more popular audience. For my taste, this Harvard archaeologist was mistaken to adopt a folksy prose style and a lot of personal anecdotes. Most readers of books like this are well-educated people who actually prefer footnotes and properly-sourced citations. The author would have been better served by erring on the side of a more rigorous presentation and by grounding more of his claims in the literature of the academic journals.

He has also made a mistake in including a chapter analyzing warfare among chimpanzee bands. Chimp culture is so far removed from that of humans -- we had a common ancestor millions of years ago but humans are not descended from chimps -- to make the comparison largely irrelevant.

Nonetheless, anyone who reads Mr. LeBlanc in conjunction with Mr. Keeley will find the two a persuasive combination. Together they show there can now be little doubt that as far back as we have credible archaeological and anthropological evidence, human beings have inhabited not a realm of peace but a world of war.

Mr. LeBlanc's book makes one valuable contribution to the debate. He addresses a question that remained a yawning gap in Keeley's work: whether hunter-gatherers have been as warlike as tribal villagers. Mr. Keeley lumped both together under the category of primitive or tribal society. However, for at least 95 percent of the past 200,000 years, humans were hunter-gatherers.

Agriculture -- even the most elementary kind such as that still practiced in New Guinea -- is a comparatively recent invention, less than 10,000 years old. Tribal villagers who tend gardens have an obvious need to defend the plots in which they have invested their labor and on which their very ability to survive depends. Hunter-gatherers, on the other hand, are mostly nomadic people with fewer territorial imperatives. If challenged by rivals, they can usually move on to more congenial locales. On the face of it, villagers and nomads should have quite different propensities to go to war.

Mr. LeBlanc devotes a chapter to this issue with a detailed analysis of three hunter-gatherer populations for which there is reliable evidence: the !Kung bushmen of south-west Africa, the Eskimos of arctic America and the Aborigines of Australia. The picture that emerges of these nomads (or foragers, as Mr. LeBlanc prefers to call them) is little different from that of more sedentary agriculturalists. "From the earliest foragers found archaeologically to historical accounts of foragers from all corners of the globe," Mr. LeBlanc writes, "the evidence shows that they fight and kill in deadly earnest."

For instance, archaeologists working on the Saunaktuk Inuit site on the Beaufort Sea, in the Northwest Territories of Canada, have recovered the remains of many women and children that show violent death and dismemberment. In Arnhem Land in northern Australia, a study of warfare among the Murngin people in the late-19th century found that over a 20-year period no less than 200 out of 800 men, or 25 percent of all adult males, had been killed in intertribal warfare.

Since the 17th century, a great debate has raged within Western culture about the original condition of humankind. The English philosopher Thomas Hobbes argued that in the state of nature life must have been miserable, brutal, ignorant and short. Only with the advent of civilization did people come to enjoy comfort, peace and longevity. A century later, the French Enlightenment's Jean Jacques Rousseau turned all this on its head, arguing that the first humans lived in simple happiness, at one with the natural environment. Civilization was a corruption of this idyllic golden age, a falling from grace.

Both perspectives were entirely speculative. Neither Hobbes nor Rousseau ever made an empirical investigation of the real world of tribal societies. Nonetheless, their analyses subsequently exercised a powerful hold on the Western mind.

Among intellectuals in the humanities, especially those drawn to the field of anthropology, the radical optimism of Rousseau has long held sway. Right up until the present, the majority of anthropological studies of primitive societies have been conducted on assumptions derived from the French Enlightenment's disdain for the burdens of civilization.

Even Mr. LeBlanc cannot shake himself free of this tradition. He concludes his book with the hope that his study of this topic will, in some unspecified way, contribute to the eventual elimination of warfare. The very work he has produced, however, is an effective antidote to Enlightenment romanticism. It is, in fact, a powerful confirmation of the world view of Thomas Hobbes and his pessimistic realism about humanity's perpetual predilection for violence.

Keith Windschuttle is an Australian whose books include "The Illing of History: How Literary Critics and Social Theorists Are Murdering Out Past."

Read more: Enduring myth of 'noble savage' vs. a species at continuous war? - Washington Times
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on August 22, 2012, 06:39:27 AM
I finished two books in the last week, bringing my total for the year up to ... about 2.

"Theodore Rex" was very good but I think I preferred the Rise a bit more than the story of his Administration.  I am going to order the third book soon, hopefully I can get through it faster than the 9 months this one took.

"Lunatics" by Dave Berry and Alan Zweibel (http://www.amazon.com/Lunatics-Dave-Barry/dp/0399158693) is one of the funniest things I have read in a long time.  Blurb:

QuotePhilip Horkman is a happy man-the owner of a pet store called The Wine Shop, and on Sundays a referee for kids' soccer. Jeffrey Peckerman is the sole sane person in a world filled with goddamned jerks and morons, and he's having a really bad day. The two of them are about to collide in a swiftly escalating series of events that will send them running for their lives, pursued by the police, soldiers, terrorists, subversives, bears, and a man dressed as Chuck E. Cheese.

Very funny and hits some international and US current events.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 22, 2012, 06:48:48 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 17, 2012, 09:18:45 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 01, 2012, 04:32:09 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 13, 2012, 11:09:43 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 13, 2012, 08:55:27 AM
I'm up to Book of 9 of Jordan's Wheel of Time.

You guys probably all hate it but I don't care, you are all snobs.
The ending of book 9 is fucking awesome.

Book 10 is slow and not much happens, but book 11-13 are some of the best in the series.
Once someone else took a stronger hand in it yes.
Jordan wrote book 11 :contract:
Editing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 22, 2012, 06:57:10 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 17, 2012, 06:59:50 AMCurrently reading "The Inheritance of Rome - Europe 400-1000" from Penguin's History of Europe series. I like the author's attempt to try to look at the events and developments from the perspective of people at the time (did their decision make sense at the time), and trying to limit the hindsight evaluation.

So far, the book is nowhere near as gripping as The Pursuit of Glory: Europe 1648-1815 (http://www.amazon.com/The-Pursuit-Glory-1648-1815-Penguin/dp/0670063207) from the same series (Penguin History of Europe).

This sentence made me LOL, though:

"One example is Felix's Life of Guthlac, a saint's life of the 730s, which depicts its Mercian aristocratic saint as having been the leader of a war-band in his youth in the 690s, 'remembering the valiant deeds of heroes of old', who razed the settlements of his enemies with gay abandon and accumulated immense booty before changing his ways and becoming a monk."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on August 22, 2012, 07:17:31 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 22, 2012, 06:57:10 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 17, 2012, 06:59:50 AMCurrently reading "The Inheritance of Rome - Europe 400-1000" from Penguin's History of Europe series. I like the author's attempt to try to look at the events and developments from the perspective of people at the time (did their decision make sense at the time), and trying to limit the hindsight evaluation.

So far, the book is nowhere near as gripping as The Pursuit of Glory: Europe 1648-1815 (http://www.amazon.com/The-Pursuit-Glory-1648-1815-Penguin/dp/0670063207) from the same series (Penguin History of Europe).

This sentence made me LOL, though:

"One example is Felix's Life of Guthlac, a saint's life of the 730s, which depicts its Mercian aristocratic saint as having been the leader of a war-band in his youth in the 690s, 'remembering the valiant deeds of heroes of old', who razed the settlements of his enemies with gay abandon and accumulated immense booty before changing his ways and becoming a monk."

I've yet to start on Pursuit of Glory, but I though Inheritance of Rome was really good.

Currently reading A Time of Gifts by Patrick Leigh Fermor. Hugely impressed, already ordered his other major works.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on August 22, 2012, 07:19:20 AM
I'm delving into the deep dark world of free Baen Books. This week, Better To Beg Forgiveness...

The theme? UN bad. Fat people...stink! Socialism bad. Third world societies bad. Foreign Aid..bad! PMC's Good! Americans Good!

The book isn't that bad. For being free.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 22, 2012, 07:31:41 AM
Ah yes, in recent years Baen has been overtaken by rabid libertarian types.  Their books are political rants disguised as sci-fi novels.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 22, 2012, 07:37:34 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 22, 2012, 07:19:20 AM
I'm delving into the deep dark world of free Baen Books. This week, Better To Beg Forgiveness...

The theme? UN bad. Fat people...stink! Socialism bad. Third world societies bad. Foreign Aid..bad! PMC's Good! Americans Good!

The book isn't that bad. For being free.

I read the first chapter of a free e-book about the Sith. Didn't draw me in, would rather spend my time watching crap on youtube/netflix and posting crap on Languish.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 22, 2012, 07:50:36 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 22, 2012, 07:31:41 AM
Ah yes, in recent years Baen has been overtaken by rabid libertarian types.  Their books are political rants disguised as sci-fi novels.

That describes a lot of sci-fi novels, for a long time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2012, 10:56:36 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 22, 2012, 07:19:20 AM
I'm delving into the deep dark world of free Baen Books. This week, Better To Beg Forgiveness...

The theme? UN bad. Fat people...stink! Socialism bad. Third world societies bad. Foreign Aid..bad! PMC's Good! Americans Good!

The book isn't that bad. For being free.

What did you do, join the Newt Gingrich Book of the Month Club?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 11:26:50 AM
I've started reading Grant's memoirs on Kindle.  I knew he was opposed to the Mexican War, but man he lays it on thick.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2012, 11:31:16 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 11:26:50 AM
I've started reading Grant's memoirs on Kindle.  I knew he was opposed to the Mexican War, but man he lays it on thick.

Yeah, I've been wading through them for the last several months in chunks myself.  It's a fantastically written memoir.  But yeah, he doesn't pull any punches on the Mexican War at all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on August 22, 2012, 01:28:47 PM
Just finished The Myth of the Muslim Tide by Canadian journalist, based in Britain, Doug Sanders.

In it he basically uses facts to debunk the propaganda spread by the  likes of Mark Steyn, Niall Ferguson, Christopher Caldewell, Daniel Pipes, etc who say that Muslim immigrants are out to take over the west.

Good read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 01:58:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 11:26:50 AM
I've started reading Grant's memoirs on Kindle.  I knew he was opposed to the Mexican War, but man he lays it on thick.

As well he should.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on August 22, 2012, 02:30:19 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2012, 10:56:36 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 22, 2012, 07:19:20 AM
I'm delving into the deep dark world of free Baen Books. This week, Better To Beg Forgiveness...

The theme? UN bad. Fat people...stink! Socialism bad. Third world societies bad. Foreign Aid..bad! PMC's Good! Americans Good!

The book isn't that bad. For being free.

What did you do, join the Newt Gingrich Book of the Month Club?

The misogyny book club closed down.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 03:04:16 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 01:58:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 11:26:50 AM
I've started reading Grant's memoirs on Kindle.  I knew he was opposed to the Mexican War, but man he lays it on thick.

As well he should.

Nah. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 03:06:46 PM
Yeah.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on August 22, 2012, 03:25:05 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 22, 2012, 07:19:20 AM
I'm delving into the deep dark world of free Baen Books. This week, Better To Beg Forgiveness...

The theme? UN bad. Fat people...stink! Socialism bad. Third world societies bad. Foreign Aid..bad! PMC's Good! Americans Good!

After reading the theme, I knew it had to be Williamson before I looked it up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 03:06:46 PM
Yeah.

No, sir.  I respect Grant's an your opinion, but Manifest Destiny demanded that the land be ours.  Lord knows the Mexicans weren't doing anything productive with it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 22, 2012, 03:50:00 PM
Quote, Mr. LeBlanc is only the second author to unequivocally argue that, for most of its existence, homo sapiens has waged almost constant war on its own kind and that primeval society was far more warlike than any of its civilized successors.

(blurb from Timmy's book)

I've actually read two books in the last month that made that argument: Francis Fukuyama's Origins of Political Order, and Nicholas Wade's Before the Dawn.  Both cite LeBlanc and its fair to say he seems to be a (if not the) leading proponent of the thesis, but the claim to radicalism is a bit overheated.

QuoteEven Mr. LeBlanc cannot shake himself free of this tradition. He concludes his book with the hope that his study of this topic will, in some unspecified way, contribute to the eventual elimination of warfare. The very work he has produced, however, is an effective antidote to Enlightenment romanticism

WTF??
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 03:06:46 PM
Yeah.

No, sir.  I respect Grant's an your opinion, but Manifest Destiny demanded that the land be ours.  Lord knows the Mexicans weren't doing anything productive with it.

Eminent domain is fine as long as it's nation to nation, eh?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 03:06:46 PM
Yeah.

No, sir.  I respect Grant's an your opinion, but Manifest Destiny demanded that the land be ours.  Lord knows the Mexicans weren't doing anything productive with it.

Eminent domain is fine as long as it's nation to nation, eh?  :hmm:

In this one case, yes.  Otherwise the effing Brits might've gotten their hands on some of that territory and we'd have a second Canada to deal with.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 04:10:53 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 04:02:45 PM
In this one case, yes.  Otherwise...we'd have a second Canada to deal with.

I'll view that as a concession the war was bad.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 04:10:53 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 04:02:45 PM
In this one case, yes.  Otherwise...we'd have a second Canada to deal with.

I'll view that as a concession the war was bad.  ;)

May not have been as just as other wars, but I wouldn't have opposed it had I been around back then. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on August 22, 2012, 04:22:26 PM
Pros:

Dead Mexicans
Dead Mexicans
DEAD MEXICANS

Cons:

Davey Twiggs
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 22, 2012, 06:11:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 03:06:46 PM
Yeah.

No, sir.  I respect Grant's an your opinion, but Manifest Destiny demanded that the land be ours.  Lord knows the Mexicans weren't doing anything productive with it.

Naked aggression on behalf of slave owners is never good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 06:12:29 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 22, 2012, 06:11:31 PM
Naked aggression on behalf of slave owners is never good.

:)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2012, 06:24:27 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 03:57:01 PM
Eminent domain is fine as long as it's nation to nation, eh?  :hmm:

It evened out the map, man, made it flush with the floorboards.  And besides, the stars would've been all fucked up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 22, 2012, 06:40:28 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 22, 2012, 06:11:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 03:06:46 PM
Yeah.

No, sir.  I respect Grant's an your opinion, but Manifest Destiny demanded that the land be ours.  Lord knows the Mexicans weren't doing anything productive with it.

Naked aggression on behalf of slave owners is never good.
Don't see any slaves there now. We should have taken Mexico to the 25th parralel. Nicholas Trist was a traitor to his country!  :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 22, 2012, 06:56:33 PM
We should annex Mexico and Canada so their voters can help us get socialized health care.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 22, 2012, 07:11:00 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 22, 2012, 06:40:28 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 22, 2012, 06:11:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 03:06:46 PM
Yeah.

No, sir.  I respect Grant's an your opinion, but Manifest Destiny demanded that the land be ours.  Lord knows the Mexicans weren't doing anything productive with it.

Naked aggression on behalf of slave owners is never good.
Don't see any slaves there now. We should have taken Mexico to the 25th parralel. Nicholas Trist was a traitor to his country!  :mad:

I seem to recall a nasty war to solve that problem.  Why the devil would we want more Mexico?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 22, 2012, 07:34:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 22, 2012, 07:11:00 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 22, 2012, 06:40:28 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 22, 2012, 06:11:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 22, 2012, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 22, 2012, 03:06:46 PM
Yeah.

No, sir.  I respect Grant's an your opinion, but Manifest Destiny demanded that the land be ours.  Lord knows the Mexicans weren't doing anything productive with it.

Naked aggression on behalf of slave owners is never good.
Don't see any slaves there now. We should have taken Mexico to the 25th parralel. Nicholas Trist was a traitor to his country!  :mad:

I seem to recall a nasty war to solve that problem.  Why the devil would we want more Mexico?
Would the war have been worse if we took more of Mexico? If not, what would be the problem?

Mexico north of the 25th was virtually unpopulated at the time aside from the natives. This was especially true in the northwestern half. The northeastern half and some light settlements.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 22, 2012, 07:44:28 PM
Virtually unpopulated except for the natives. :lol:

The question is not "Why what is the problem?", it's "Why should we be taking other people's land?".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on August 22, 2012, 07:53:33 PM
Timmay is unrolling his handmade spunk covered Alt-Hist maps as I speak.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 22, 2012, 08:00:57 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 22, 2012, 07:44:28 PM
Virtually unpopulated except for the natives. :lol:

The question is not "Why what is the problem?", it's "Why should we be taking other people's land?".

Because it's there and we're stronger than they are.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 22, 2012, 08:34:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 22, 2012, 07:44:28 PM
Virtually unpopulated except for the natives. :lol:

The question is not "Why what is the problem?", it's "Why should we be taking other people's land?".
By natives I mean the Native Americans. Unjustly or not, they simply did not factor into the calculus of Americans at the time. The territory had very few Mexicans.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 22, 2012, 10:57:08 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 22, 2012, 03:50:00 PMFrancis Fukuyama's Origins of Political Order

How did you like it?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 23, 2012, 07:56:41 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 22, 2012, 08:34:00 PM
By natives I mean the Native Americans. Unjustly or not, they simply did not factor into the calculus of Americans at the time. The territory had very few Mexicans.

I don't really understand your distinction between Native Americans and Mexicans.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 23, 2012, 08:51:40 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 23, 2012, 07:56:41 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 22, 2012, 08:34:00 PM
By natives I mean the Native Americans. Unjustly or not, they simply did not factor into the calculus of Americans at the time. The territory had very few Mexicans.

I don't really understand your distinction between Native Americans and Mexicans.
Just because most Mexicans now and then were mostly of native stock doesn't mean they were in any way culturally similar to the Apaches and the other tribes living traditionally in the North.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 23, 2012, 10:37:01 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 22, 2012, 10:57:08 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 22, 2012, 03:50:00 PMFrancis Fukuyama's Origins of Political Order

How did you like it?

I think it is well pitched to this audience (languish) -- it covers a very broad sweep of history across time (prehistory to the French Revolution) and space (europe, china, ottomans, etc) and dabbles in evolutionary theory, anthropology, economics.  There is not a lot of modesty here.  He is trying to build a grand unified theory of political development starting with basic structural roots, ultimately biological.  That aspect of it is a bit eyebrow raising, and the early part of the book which deals with prehistory gave the impression of someone making broad generalization in an area where they are out of their depth.  But the book gets some tranction in the comparative history/politics sections which is the meat of it.

Fukuyama's intention is to write a broad theory of political-historical development in the vein of the 19th century classics like Weber, Marx or Macaulay and openly claims that to be so.  But the approach reminded me of an even older tradition - the sociologically-based historical analyses of the pre-modern era, like ibn Khaldun (cited multiple times), Machiavelli or Jean Bodin.  The result is a little jarring in the present age but also refreshing.  As is often the case with FF, how well the argument holds up is almost secondary because it is hard not to admire the ambition and sheer intellectual chutzpah of the effort.  Also as is often the case with FF, while the basic argument can be stated easily and crudely, there is a lot of nuance to it.  For that reason, I would ignore some of the more critical reviews from the press which tend to strawman the argument a bit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 23, 2012, 11:40:55 AM
Thanks, it's going onto my to-read-list. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 26, 2012, 11:02:31 PM
Going to start reaquiring some series;

Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser -Fritz Leiber
Chronicles of Corum -Michael Moorcock
The Black Company -Glenn Cook
Chronicles of the Deryni -Katherine Kurtz
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 26, 2012, 11:28:07 PM
Forgot one;

Horseclans- Robert Adams
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 26, 2012, 11:35:59 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 23, 2012, 10:37:01 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 22, 2012, 10:57:08 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 22, 2012, 03:50:00 PMFrancis Fukuyama's Origins of Political Order

How did you like it?

I think it is well pitched to this audience (languish) -- it covers a very broad sweep of history across time (prehistory to the French Revolution) and space (europe, china, ottomans, etc) and dabbles in evolutionary theory, anthropology, economics.  There is not a lot of modesty here.  He is trying to build a grand unified theory of political development starting with basic structural roots, ultimately biological.  That aspect of it is a bit eyebrow raising, and the early part of the book which deals with prehistory gave the impression of someone making broad generalization in an area where they are out of their depth.  But the book gets some tranction in the comparative history/politics sections which is the meat of it.

Fukuyama's intention is to write a broad theory of political-historical development in the vein of the 19th century classics like Weber, Marx or Macaulay and openly claims that to be so.  But the approach reminded me of an even older tradition - the sociologically-based historical analyses of the pre-modern era, like ibn Khaldun (cited multiple times), Machiavelli or Jean Bodin.  The result is a little jarring in the present age but also refreshing.  As is often the case with FF, how well the argument holds up is almost secondary because it is hard not to admire the ambition and sheer intellectual chutzpah of the effort.  Also as is often the case with FF, while the basic argument can be stated easily and crudely, there is a lot of nuance to it.  For that reason, I would ignore some of the more critical reviews from the press which tend to strawman the argument a bit.
OH GOD WHERE IS THIS I DON'T EVEN
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 27, 2012, 07:02:17 AM
The Black Company was good until he got into the books of the South.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 27, 2012, 09:12:21 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 22, 2012, 03:50:00 PM
Quote, Mr. LeBlanc is only the second author to unequivocally argue that, for most of its existence, homo sapiens has waged almost constant war on its own kind and that primeval society was far more warlike than any of its civilized successors.

(blurb from Timmy's book)

I've actually read two books in the last month that made that argument: Francis Fukuyama's Origins of Political Order, and Nicholas Wade's Before the Dawn.  Both cite LeBlanc and its fair to say he seems to be a (if not the) leading proponent of the thesis, but the claim to radicalism is a bit overheated.

QuoteEven Mr. LeBlanc cannot shake himself free of this tradition. He concludes his book with the hope that his study of this topic will, in some unspecified way, contribute to the eventual elimination of warfare. The very work he has produced, however, is an effective antidote to Enlightenment romanticism

WTF??

Yeah, I don't get it either. I'd have thought that the conclusion that more socially primitve societies were more warlike than ours would be a profoundly optomistic one, indicating that warfare isn't the invariable fate of humanity.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 27, 2012, 09:26:56 AM
Keegan's History of War pointed out that war seems to be an unavoidable part of the human condition.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 27, 2012, 09:43:14 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 27, 2012, 09:26:56 AM
Keegan's History of War pointed out that war seems to be an unavoidable part of the human condition.

I do believe that conflict between humans is inevitable, but I do not believe that this conflict will always at some point take the form of physically killing one's enemies. More socially primitive societies, such as hunter-gatherers, may be fairly violent, but pretty well all of that violence (aside from resisting, say, encroachments from more complex societies such as European colonialists) would more properly be described as crime and punishment of crime, not war - murders as crimes of passion, revenge for same, or feuds of the Hatfields-and-McCoys variety. Our own societies are generally less violent in this respect because of the existence of strong social instutions to contain such aggression - to a large degree, we have replaced violence as the ultimate arbiter with law. Conflict still exists of course, but much of it is channeled into legal proceedings.

To a great extent, Western first-world countries have in their relations with each other succeeded in replacing war with institutions for resolving disputes. So it can happen.   
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 27, 2012, 03:12:53 PM
Just picked up the Franky Fukayam book, Peter Heather's book on Barbarian kingdoms, and a book on Hannibal with the last of my Christmas money. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 27, 2012, 06:42:11 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 27, 2012, 07:02:17 AM
The Black Company was good until he got into the books of the South.

I've only read the first three.

Any opinions on Erickson's Malazan Book series?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 27, 2012, 06:57:43 PM
 The Eustace Diamonds. Third in Trollope's 'political' Palliser series and the least political. A decent Trollope novel, but it feels like he learned all the wrong lessons from Wilkie Collins.

Lord Bingham's The Rule of Law. A re-read but still brilliant.

Jonathan Fenby's biography of de Gaulle. The only modern-ish English biography I can find and very welcome for it. It also successfully deals with de Gaulle's personal life (the relationship with his second daughter, Anne, is beautifully handled) and his wartime career. I think it fails at post-war de Gaulle and some of the questions he poses in the introduction, such as whether Gaullism is a coherent ideology.

Currently on Phineas Redux, Trollope's fourth Palliser novel and working through Carlyle's history of the French Revolution.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on August 27, 2012, 07:34:49 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 26, 2012, 11:02:31 PM
Going to start reaquiring some series;

Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser -Fritz Leiber
Chronicles of Corum -Michael Moorcock
The Black Company -Glenn Cook
Chronicles of the Deryni -Katherine Kurtz

I loved those books, now I shall have to reaquire them as well. 

Maybe read some more Moorcock as he's such an amusing gentleman in person.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 27, 2012, 08:06:19 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 27, 2012, 06:57:43 PM
I think it fails at post-war de Gaulle and some of the questions he poses in the introduction, such as whether Gaullism is a coherent ideology.

Let me guess, he says no and you say yes? :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 27, 2012, 08:27:26 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 27, 2012, 08:06:19 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 27, 2012, 06:57:43 PM
I think it fails at post-war de Gaulle and some of the questions he poses in the introduction, such as whether Gaullism is a coherent ideology.

Let me guess, he says no and you say yes? :hmm:
No, he doesn't answer it.

He demystifies de Gaulle which is impressive and the bits when he admired de Gaulle (the war and Algeria) are handled well. But he never properly handles the Fourth Republic, he never explains why the French supported a Gaullist candidate in so many post de Gaulle elections and most problematically he doesn't explain why such impressive figures as Debre, Pompidou and d'Estaing generally subordinate themselves to him.

And it never really deals with Mendes-France fully and I think he's a key to that point in French history.

It's a great book but far better at WW2 and Algeria (where there's far more research done by other historians such as Horne's Savage War of Peace) than other, important, periods.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on August 27, 2012, 10:33:02 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 23, 2012, 10:37:01 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 22, 2012, 10:57:08 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 22, 2012, 03:50:00 PMFrancis Fukuyama's Origins of Political Order

How did you like it?

I think it is well pitched to this audience (languish) -- it covers a very broad sweep of history across time (prehistory to the French Revolution) and space (europe, china, ottomans, etc) and dabbles in evolutionary theory, anthropology, economics.  There is not a lot of modesty here.  He is trying to build a grand unified theory of political development starting with basic structural roots, ultimately biological.  That aspect of it is a bit eyebrow raising, and the early part of the book which deals with prehistory gave the impression of someone making broad generalization in an area where they are out of their depth.  But the book gets some tranction in the comparative history/politics sections which is the meat of it.

Fukuyama's intention is to write a broad theory of political-historical development in the vein of the 19th century classics like Weber, Marx or Macaulay and openly claims that to be so.  But the approach reminded me of an even older tradition - the sociologically-based historical analyses of the pre-modern era, like ibn Khaldun (cited multiple times), Machiavelli or Jean Bodin.  The result is a little jarring in the present age but also refreshing.  As is often the case with FF, how well the argument holds up is almost secondary because it is hard not to admire the ambition and sheer intellectual chutzpah of the effort.  Also as is often the case with FF, while the basic argument can be stated easily and crudely, there is a lot of nuance to it.  For that reason, I would ignore some of the more critical reviews from the press which tend to strawman the argument a bit.

He's a poor man's Jose Ortega Y Gasset.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on September 02, 2012, 04:25:48 PM
Reading Stephen King's On Writing.

Good stuff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 05, 2012, 02:55:40 PM
Just ordered

The First Crusade, The Call From the East http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0674059948/ref=kinw_rke_tl_1

and

Simulating War : Studying Conflict through Simulation Games  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1441185585/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=flaofste-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1441185585

No idea when I'll get around to reading them, though.  Still have N. A. M. Rodger's two volumes on British naval history (Safeguard of the Sea and The Command of the Ocean) to blitz through first.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on September 10, 2012, 06:37:34 PM
Maybe of interest to some, Richard Overy's 'The Third Reich: A Chronicle' is available on kindle for $2.71 :
http://www.amazon.com/The-Third-Reich-Chronicle-ebook/dp/B005H3LKSG/ref=tmm_kin_title_0 (http://www.amazon.com/The-Third-Reich-Chronicle-ebook/dp/B005H3LKSG/ref=tmm_kin_title_0)

In the UK:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Third-Reich-Chronicle-ebook/dp/B005H3LKSG/ref=tmm_kin_title_0 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Third-Reich-Chronicle-ebook/dp/B005H3LKSG/ref=tmm_kin_title_0)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on September 10, 2012, 07:06:45 PM
Quote from: mongers on September 10, 2012, 06:37:34 PM
Maybe of interest to some, Richard Overy's 'The Third Reich: A Chronicle' is available on kindle for $2.71 :
http://www.amazon.com/The-Third-Reich-Chronicle-ebook/dp/B005H3LKSG/ref=tmm_kin_title_0 (http://www.amazon.com/The-Third-Reich-Chronicle-ebook/dp/B005H3LKSG/ref=tmm_kin_title_0)

In the UK:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Third-Reich-Chronicle-ebook/dp/B005H3LKSG/ref=tmm_kin_title_0 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Third-Reich-Chronicle-ebook/dp/B005H3LKSG/ref=tmm_kin_title_0)

Showing $10.61 in the US right now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 10, 2012, 07:09:18 PM
Overy's one of my favorites, but I can afford to wait.  I have too much crap to read as it is.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on September 10, 2012, 07:20:46 PM
Quote from: ulmont on September 10, 2012, 07:06:45 PM
Quote from: mongers on September 10, 2012, 06:37:34 PM
Maybe of interest to some, Richard Overy's 'The Third Reich: A Chronicle' is available on kindle for $2.71 :
http://www.amazon.com/The-Third-Reich-Chronicle-ebook/dp/B005H3LKSG/ref=tmm_kin_title_0 (http://www.amazon.com/The-Third-Reich-Chronicle-ebook/dp/B005H3LKSG/ref=tmm_kin_title_0)

In the UK:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Third-Reich-Chronicle-ebook/dp/B005H3LKSG/ref=tmm_kin_title_0 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Third-Reich-Chronicle-ebook/dp/B005H3LKSG/ref=tmm_kin_title_0)

Showing $10.61 in the US right now.

Really, probably the result of amazon's weird 'we change the prices, whilst you went to make a cup of coffee' pricing strategy.

Prompted by you, I just quickly bought it andit was at the low price, oddly when I then look for it on amazon.com it's still showing the low USD price.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 10, 2012, 07:25:28 PM
The Amazon.co.uk store has it for the lower price.  The Amazon.com has it much higher.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 11, 2012, 01:24:29 AM
Hmm...sounds interesting. :hmm:

http://www.amazon.com/Captain-James-Curse-Peter-ebook/dp/B008D8M7PC/ref=sr_1_18?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1347344341&sr=1-18&keywords=peter+pan
QuoteCaptain James Hook and the Curse of Peter Pan

review

This book was deeply enjoyable and once I started it I couldn't put it down. What I found most unique about this book, and most satisfying, is the manner in which it ties the well known story of Peter Pan into other similar stories and historic events as well as returning to some of the oldest mythology concerning the nature of human interaction with non-human faery-like creatures.

There is, if viewed honestly, something more than a little disturbing about Peter Pan. The desire to remain a child forever, though tempting, can't be separated from an unethical lack of responsibility. The oldest stories about faery creatures and the humans who interact with them tend to always convey the same message. Faery's may not be evil, they are generally playful and well-intentioned, but their utter disconnection from the concerns and standards of the human world along with their non-human power make them exceptionally dangerous in a unique way. Theirs is the danger of consequences unintended because of an utter lack of reflection which fits perfectly the danger of a powerful entity joined to a complete incapacity for reflection and responsibility. We see clearly in this story the way in which any entity with the power of Peter Pan would either be or become a terrifyingly non-human creature. Particularly fascinating is the way in which the book points this out through the limitations of Peter Pan's memory. Memory is a form of responsibility-taking, and a life of perpetual irresponsible play would be a life devoid of a past. Despite this, however, the character of Peter Pan remains enchanting, charming and seductive. In their revisiting of the character of Peter Pan the authors set themselves no small challenge and they met the challenge with resounding success. In this it even resembles, at points, Susanna Clarke's "Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell". Bringing these reflections on Peter Pan into play with the character of Captain Hook gives rise to the rich irony of the story. The ethical lack on the part of Peter Pan helps lead to a reversed ethical failure on the part of the conscientiously responsible James Hook, a fact which provokes some troubling questions about the nature of moral responsibility and ethical dilemmas in human life.

Classic stories like those of Peter Pan tend to exist in their own world entirely insulated from other literary references or historical context in the same way Peter Pan is insulated from any worldly connections. To tell the story from the perspective of Hook, however, is to reconnect it to the human world with its historical and literary references. This the authors have done in a deeply satisfying and fulfilling way. We get to meet other historical pirates while also being treated in subtle non-artificial ways to reflections on the origin and nature of the Peter Pan figure (for example through references to Puck from Shakespeare). If you have ever wondered how Captain Hook's personality would stand out next to those of Blackbeard or Long John Silver this book will be a treat.

As a reader I tend to most enjoy these subtle historical and literary elements, but one need not be such a reader to deeply enjoy this book. Setting aside the aspects I think make this honestly a deep book in a unique manner, it is also an entertaining and enthralling adventure story with characters you care about and a pleasantly complex plot that nicely comes together by the end. The book manages to achieve all this while successfully expanding the original Peter Pan story and filling gaps the original story left undiscussed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 11, 2012, 07:14:45 AM
Sounds like a pretentious jackoff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 11, 2012, 07:17:10 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 02, 2012, 04:25:48 PM
Reading Stephen King's On Writing.

Good stuff.

Oh yeah, that book totally salvaged my entire opinion of him as a writer.

I love the part about the writer's bloc he had for over a year about The Stand, and how he decided what to do about it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 11, 2012, 07:23:52 AM
Currently re-reading "Paradise Lost" (Penguin's annotated edition). I think I may want to play Solium Infernum multiplayer again.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 11, 2012, 07:33:12 AM
QuoteIf you have ever wondered how Captain Hook's personality would stand out next to those of Blackbeard or Long John Silver this book will be a treat.

:huh:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on September 11, 2012, 08:51:37 AM
Finished Phineas Redux, the best of the Palliser novels so far in my opinion. I'm a few chapters into the next or the series, The Prime Minister. It starts very well.

Still with Carlyle on the side.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 11, 2012, 09:05:16 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 11, 2012, 08:51:37 AM
Finished Phineas Redux, the best of the Palliser novels so far in my opinion. I'm a few chapters into the next or the series, The Prime Minister. It starts very well.

Still with Carlyle on the side.

Ah yes, as Flashman once remarked, there is nothing like curling up at night with a good trollop(e).  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 11, 2012, 09:23:54 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 11, 2012, 07:33:12 AM
QuoteIf you have ever wondered how Captain Hook's personality would stand out next to those of Blackbeard or Long John Silver this book will be a treat.

:huh:
Pan as an inhuman fae monster is what interested me there. I can see it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 16, 2012, 07:37:05 AM
Read the Osprey book on Towton 1461. Graham Turner's artwork is great as always (I love his work on the WotR), but I am not convinced by some things that the author says.

It seems unlikely to me that you would deploy a medieval army with the battles behind one another instead of side by side. I can think of all kinds of C&C issues and it just seems odd. But maybe I'm just ignorant? But my impression is definitely that the two wings and a center system makes a lot more sense. The source quoted for Fauconberg's archer tactics also makes more sense if he only commanded part of the Yorkist archers.

Speaking of Fauconberg, the author's claim that he ordered his archers to leave half of the Lancastrian arrows that had fallen short in the ground (instead of shooting them back at the Lancastrians) to form an obstacle for the Lancastrians when they advanced smells wrong. The source quoted makes more sense if interpreted that part of the arrows were fired back at the Lancastrians and part were not, not because of some command but because that's just the way it would play out IRL. Among other problems with such a command is that the commander would have had to believe that an arrow would do more damage to the Lancastrians as an obstacle in the ground instead of as a missile fired into them, which seems odd to me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on September 16, 2012, 09:13:09 AM
Is that the one in the snow?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 16, 2012, 09:15:53 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 16, 2012, 09:13:09 AM
Is that the one in the snow?

Yup.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 16, 2012, 12:28:07 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 16, 2012, 07:37:05 AM
Read the Osprey book on Towton 1461. Graham Turner's artwork is great as always (I love his work on the WotR), but I am not convinced by some things that the author says.

It seems unlikely to me that you would deploy a medieval army with the battles behind one another instead of side by side. I can think of all kinds of C&C issues and it just seems odd. But maybe I'm just ignorant? But my impression is definitely that the two wings and a center system makes a lot more sense. The source quoted for Fauconberg's archer tactics also makes more sense if he only commanded part of the Yorkist archers.

Speaking of Fauconberg, the author's claim that he ordered his archers to leave half of the Lancastrian arrows that had fallen short in the ground (instead of shooting them back at the Lancastrians) to form an obstacle for the Lancastrians when they advanced smells wrong. The source quoted makes more sense if interpreted that part of the arrows were fired back at the Lancastrians and part were not, not because of some command but because that's just the way it would play out IRL. Among other problems with such a command is that the commander would have had to believe that an arrow would do more damage to the Lancastrians as an obstacle in the ground instead of as a missile fired into them, which seems odd to me.

I notice that the author (Christopher Gravett) puts the battles side by side in his books on Tewkesbury 1471 and Bosworth 1485. I wonder if he has considered the weirdness of a unique form of deployment at Towton. :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 18, 2012, 08:25:25 AM
There's now an alt-hist book about the world if Gore had won. :bleeding:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on September 25, 2012, 07:47:48 PM
Just finished The Prime Minister. In my view the best Palliser novel.

Now on The Duke's Children.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 25, 2012, 11:54:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 18, 2012, 08:25:25 AM
There's now an alt-hist book about the world if Gore had won. :bleeding:

Gor?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 25, 2012, 11:56:17 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: dps on September 26, 2012, 01:09:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 18, 2012, 08:25:25 AM
There's now an alt-hist book about the world if Gore had won. :bleeding:

Are the survivors reduced to eating moss?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on September 26, 2012, 01:25:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 18, 2012, 08:25:25 AM
There's now an alt-hist book about the world if Gore had won. :bleeding:

I read that.  It ends with the Chinese all flying away into space in giant city-spaceships.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: merithyn on November 26, 2012, 12:34:29 PM
Looking at picking up Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel, since her second book in the trilogy is out and the third is supposed to be coming out relatively soon. I know Sheilbh and JR have read it. Worth my time?

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on November 26, 2012, 12:36:12 PM
Since this place is about books. Kobo's Mini Ereader is 50$ online only, today only.

I was perusing Amazon last nite to find something to read & came upon 1632. What a ridiculous premise, it has me intrigue.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 26, 2012, 12:55:03 PM
I recently read Legionary: The Roman Soldier's (Unofficial) Manual (http://www.amazon.com/Legionary-Soldiers-Unofficial-Manual-Manuals/dp/0500251517).

It explains what a Roman signing up for service in ca. 100 AD could expect - from recruitment, to what equipment to get (helmet to pilum to eating utensils) and how to keep it in good shape, what training and everyday life is like and what to expect when besieging a town or meeting the enemy in open battle:

1. Joining the Roman Army
2. The Prospective Recruit's Good Legion Guide
3. Alternative Military Careers
4. Legionary Kit and Equipment
5. Training, Discipline and Ranks
6. People Who Will Want to Kill You
7. Life in Camp
8. On Campaign
9. How to Storm a City
10. Battle
11. Aftermath


Very fun read, slightly tongue in cheek (soldier's cynicism?). From the same author (Philip Matyszak):

- Gladiator: The Roman Fighter's [Unofficial] Manual
- Ancient Athens on 5 Drachmas a Day
- Ancient Rome on 5 Denarii a Day
- MITHRIDATES THE GREAT: Rome's Indomitable Enemy
- The Enemies of Rome: From Hannibal to Attila the Hun

And others.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on November 26, 2012, 01:36:01 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 26, 2012, 12:34:29 PM
Looking at picking up Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel, since her second book in the trilogy is out and the third is supposed to be coming out relatively soon. I know Sheilbh and JR have read it. Worth my time?

I read both.  They are not for everyone.  I liked them.  My wife didnt finish the first book after trying a couple times.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on November 26, 2012, 01:54:00 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 26, 2012, 12:34:29 PM
Looking at picking up Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel, since her second book in the trilogy is out and the third is supposed to be coming out relatively soon. I know Sheilbh and JR have read it. Worth my time?

I loved it and the second book. But some people are put off by the use of pronoouns whcih can make it difficult to follow until you understand that "he" is always Thomas Cromwell.

Currently reading The Song of Achilles, a retelling of the Illiad. Not bad at all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 26, 2012, 02:52:19 PM
I've been reading a series of historical fiction by a Toronto writer, that starts with Killer of Men:


http://www.amazon.com/Killer-Men-Christian-Cameron/dp/0752898582/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353959324&sr=8-1&keywords=%22killer+of+men%22

Highly recommended for historical fiction fans: the writing quality is very high, and the period detail is spot-on - but more to the point, it's a gripping read. 

The setting is classic Greece, the Ionian Revolt (the next book deals with the Battle of Marathon).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: merithyn on November 26, 2012, 02:55:20 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 26, 2012, 02:52:19 PM
I've been reading a series of historical fiction by a Toronto writer, that starts with Killer of Men:


http://www.amazon.com/Killer-Men-Christian-Cameron/dp/0752898582/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353959324&sr=8-1&keywords=%22killer+of+men%22

Highly recommended for historical fiction fans: the writing quality is very high, and the period detail is spot-on - but more to the point, it's a gripping read. 

The setting is classic Greece, the Ionian Revolt (the next book deals with the Battle of Marathon).

This would be good for my son. Thanks, Malthus. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 26, 2012, 05:21:00 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 26, 2012, 12:36:12 PM
I was perusing Amazon last nite to find something to read & came upon 1632. What a ridiculous premise, it has me intrigue.
Read it online for free at the Baen free library
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 26, 2012, 06:08:35 PM
The 1632 books by Flint and Weber are entertaining enough. Just don';t read the rest.  They just took the least bad submissinos of fan fiction to the Baen site and bound them together.  They range from boring to crap.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on November 26, 2012, 07:47:10 PM
Read Watch on the Rhine from the free baen cd's instead.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 27, 2012, 07:53:55 AM
No. That one is tainted by rabid Libertarians. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on November 27, 2012, 08:24:18 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 26, 2012, 05:21:00 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 26, 2012, 12:36:12 PM
I was perusing Amazon last nite to find something to read & came upon 1632. What a ridiculous premise, it has me intrigue.
Read it online for free at the Baen free library

I don't have any where to read it on except my computer screen unless I print it out. I don't feel like doing neither ever.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on November 27, 2012, 08:34:20 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 27, 2012, 07:53:55 AM
No. That one is tainted by rabid Libertarians.

Don't ruin it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 26, 2012, 08:09:49 PM
Just finished Armed Truce by Hugh Thomas. It's an interesting book about the start of the Cold War in 1945-6. I think it's probably the first generation of books arguing that it wasn't Western provocation and Truman's inexperience that caused it all. This is the start of the revisionism that's focused more on Stalinism, the internals of the USSR and rather admired Truman.

It's also odd reading it because it was published in 1986 so a lot of it is probably wrong (no access to Soviet records) and its expectation that the war would continue was very flawed. But generally very interesting because of the potted portraits of the situation, and US, UK and USSR policies, in a number of countries like German, Poland, Romania etc.

Two questions prompted by this and other books I've read recently:
1 - Are Simon Sebag Montefiore's two biographies of Stalin worth reading? How about Orlando Figes's 'A People's Tragedy'?
2 - Any good books on Roosevelt? I've read some more negative accounts of him now, so something more positive would be interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 26, 2012, 08:13:42 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 26, 2012, 08:09:49 PM
I think it's probably the first generation of books arguing that it wasn't Western provocation and Truman's inexperience that caused it all.

:blink:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 26, 2012, 08:27:16 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 26, 2012, 08:13:42 PM
:blink:
That's a simplification but I believe that was roughly the standard historical view from the late 50s until the 70s and 80s.

The argument was that the Cold War wasn't caused by the Soviet/Stalinist system's expansionism and the West's desire to counter it. Rather the US bore a lot of responsibility for the breakdown of the wartime alliance. A lot of this was to be blamed on Truman's bungling and incompetence, whereas Roosevelt was more able to manage the Soviets in the war and would've been able to manage them into the peace too.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on December 26, 2012, 08:29:35 PM
I'm not sure many, if any, of those books made it across the pond.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 26, 2012, 08:31:34 PM
What he said.  I've never read anything like that.

Surely those historians were discredited when they were all found to be on the Kremlin's payroll?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 26, 2012, 08:39:10 PM
Quote from: sbr on December 26, 2012, 08:29:35 PM
I'm not sure many, if any, of those books made it across the pond.
I think many of them were American.

Even ones that weren't so dogmatic on the Cold War took a very negative view of Truman. His reputation's been transformed since the 80s. At best he was seen as a well-meaning blunderer, compared to the cheerful misdirection of FDR.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on December 26, 2012, 08:43:40 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 26, 2012, 08:39:10 PM
Quote from: sbr on December 26, 2012, 08:29:35 PM
I'm not sure many, if any, of those books made it across the pond.
I think many of them were American.

Even ones that weren't so dogmatic on the Cold War took a very negative view of Truman. His reputation's been transformed since the 80s. At best he was seen as a well-meaning blunderer, compared to the cheerful misdirection of FDR.

I'll give you the part about Truman (the biography McCullogh did on him in the early '90s is really good).  Having read one book about the Cold War you already have me beat, but i find it hard to believe there are even a small number of American books that give the US even the majority of blame for the CW, much less all of it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 26, 2012, 08:47:52 PM
All of it was probably an overstatement on my part... :blush: :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on December 26, 2012, 08:59:54 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 26, 2012, 08:27:16 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 26, 2012, 08:13:42 PM
:blink:
That's a simplification but I believe that was roughly the standard historical view from the late 50s until the 70s and 80s.

The argument was that the Cold War wasn't caused by the Soviet/Stalinist system's expansionism and the West's desire to counter it. Rather the US bore a lot of responsibility for the breakdown of the wartime alliance. A lot of this was to be blamed on Truman's bungling and incompetence, whereas Roosevelt was more able to manage the Soviets in the war and would've been able to manage them into the peace too.

Hmm, that's not what I 'learnt' during the 80s.

Maybe in part your reading of it stems from you interest in US domestic politics, where soundbite accusations subsequently made against Truman was that he, FDR and the democrats were somehow soft on communism in general and gave the Soviets Eastern Europe.

Most of what I what I've read about the early cold war is certainly biased towards a foreign policy centric view of what went on, but it's always seemed to me to have the central thread that the Soviets were expansionist, hence Bevan's tireless efforts to re-entangle the US in European affairs, as a for instance.

Perhaps there's a whole raft of left-wing material that blames the West/America for the start of the cold war ? 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 26, 2012, 09:16:43 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 26, 2012, 08:59:54 PM
Most of what I what I've read about the early cold war is certainly biased towards a foreign policy centric view of what went on, but it's always seemed to me to have the central thread that the Soviets were expansionist, hence Bevan's tireless efforts to re-entangle the US in European affairs, as a for instance.

Perhaps there's a whole raft of left-wing material that blames the West/America for the start of the cold war ? 
That was the official version and is, I think, the common version now - a lot of what Thomas says in more detail agrees with Judt in Post-War.

I don't think they blame the Americans for the start of the Cold War so much as assign a significant chunk of the blame. There were provocative actions by the USSR, but the American cancelling of lend-lease and difficulty with providing the USSR a reconstruction loan were a sign of the end of the wartime alliance, in addition they were badly handled by the US government.

The proposed American system of global international and economic governance was a spreading of the American economic system which would allow significant American influence in other countries, which the Soviets would legitimately want to counter. Similarly the Soviets after WW2 had genuine defensive reasons for wanting to avoid some of the American or British plans for Eastern Europe (Britain wanted a cordon sanitaire again) or for wanting those states under their control. Underpinning a lot of it, I think, is a nostalgia for FDR who could deal with the Russians while Truman just failed.

The argument isn't outrageous, many of its points were around at the time. It's sort of a mix of naiver New Dealers like Byrnes and Wallace with more cynical (normally British) mandarins who thought the Soviets should have a sphere of influence and that would satisfy them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on December 28, 2012, 06:39:53 PM
Did I mention the five The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy books combined into one 'trilogy' are on amazon.co.uk in kindle format for under £2.50.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009OCBX38/ref=docs-os-doi_0 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009OCBX38/ref=docs-os-doi_0)

:bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 28, 2012, 06:45:20 PM
Stop reading so much anti-American Stalinapologist pooh by snotty expats and snooty Euros, Shiv.  It'll rot your brain.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 04, 2013, 09:39:48 AM
7 weeks, 200 pages a day, I've finished my reread of the Wheel of Time just in time for the last book! :w00t:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on January 04, 2013, 09:52:29 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 04, 2013, 09:39:48 AM
7 weeks, 200 pages a day, I've finished my reread of the Wheel of Time just in time for the last book! :w00t:

:w00t:

You beat me, I finish book 13 a month ago. Took 2 years to read them all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 04, 2013, 10:12:43 AM
As I always do I broke down and bought the prologue, I'm reading it right now.  It's fucking awesome!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on January 04, 2013, 10:28:31 AM
It's out next tuesday + shipping. I can wait.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 04, 2013, 10:30:10 AM
I won't be able to start until Thursday, unless I manage to find a copy at the San Francisco Airport
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 04, 2013, 10:48:47 AM
Quote from: mongers on December 26, 2012, 08:59:54 PM


Perhaps there's a whole raft of left-wing material that blames the West/America for the start of the cold war ?

Oh yeah.  Course, much of it was written in the Soviet Union.  There was a steady stream of it from communists in the West as well, even after they stopped being guided by Moscow.  I imagine they were more influential in Europe then they were in the US, but there were enough of them writing in the US during the later half of the Cold War.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 04, 2013, 11:15:09 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 26, 2012, 09:16:43 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 26, 2012, 08:59:54 PM
Most of what I what I've read about the early cold war is certainly biased towards a foreign policy centric view of what went on, but it's always seemed to me to have the central thread that the Soviets were expansionist, hence Bevan's tireless efforts to re-entangle the US in European affairs, as a for instance.

Perhaps there's a whole raft of left-wing material that blames the West/America for the start of the cold war ? 
That was the official version and is, I think, the common version now - a lot of what Thomas says in more detail agrees with Judt in Post-War.

I don't think they blame the Americans for the start of the Cold War so much as assign a significant chunk of the blame. There were provocative actions by the USSR, but the American cancelling of lend-lease and difficulty with providing the USSR a reconstruction loan were a sign of the end of the wartime alliance, in addition they were badly handled by the US government.

The proposed American system of global international and economic governance was a spreading of the American economic system which would allow significant American influence in other countries, which the Soviets would legitimately want to counter. Similarly the Soviets after WW2 had genuine defensive reasons for wanting to avoid some of the American or British plans for Eastern Europe (Britain wanted a cordon sanitaire again) or for wanting those states under their control. Underpinning a lot of it, I think, is a nostalgia for FDR who could deal with the Russians while Truman just failed.

The argument isn't outrageous, many of its points were around at the time. It's sort of a mix of naiver New Dealers like Byrnes and Wallace with more cynical (normally British) mandarins who thought the Soviets should have a sphere of influence and that would satisfy them.

I don't agree that this Judt (in Post-War or elsewhere) assigns any blame to Truman or to the west for the Cold War. He considers the CW to have been inevitable. The alliance between the west and the SU was, in his word an "aberration". Emnity between the capitalist, liberal democracies and an authoritarian, communist one was the natural state of things. Thus there is no blame to attribute, save to those naive enough to believe that the cold war was avoidable.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 04, 2013, 02:53:04 PM
The Cold War was avoidable. The West could have gone Communist.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 04, 2013, 04:24:40 PM
Shelf, are you saying that ending war time lend lease after the war was over was considered by some a provocative and confrontational act?  :huh:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on January 04, 2013, 04:42:08 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 04, 2013, 04:24:40 PM
Shelf, are you saying that ending war time lend lease after the war was over was considered by some a provocative and confrontational act?  :huh:

I'm not an expert, but yes, or at least sort-of.

The Soviet (and UK) economies were on 100% war footings.  There had been discussion about lend-lease continuing for a period of time after the end of hostilities (though certainly nothing binding) in order to allow for a transition to a peace-time economy.  But shortly after VJ-Day it ended immediately.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 04, 2013, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 04, 2013, 04:24:40 PM
Shelf, are you saying that ending war time lend lease after the war was over was considered by some a provocative and confrontational act?  :huh:
Cutting the food aid in particular forced Stalin to immediately demobilize millions of soldiers in order to send them back to the farm.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 04, 2013, 08:06:29 PM
I disagree with the idea that the Cold War was unavoidable, but it would seem really hard to avoid with Stalin in charge.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on January 04, 2013, 08:10:23 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 04, 2013, 07:59:07 PM
Cutting the food aid in particular forced Stalin to immediately demobilize millions of soldiers in order to send them back to the farm.
It's horrible that the Soviets had to oppress eastern Europe with millions fewer soldiers than desired.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 04, 2013, 08:15:25 PM
Quote from: Kleves on January 04, 2013, 08:10:23 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 04, 2013, 07:59:07 PM
Cutting the food aid in particular forced Stalin to immediately demobilize millions of soldiers in order to send them back to the farm.
It's horrible that the Soviets had to oppress eastern Europe with millions fewer soldiers than desired.  :(

GOD DAMN AMERICA
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 04, 2013, 08:21:50 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 04, 2013, 04:42:08 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 04, 2013, 04:24:40 PM
Shelf, are you saying that ending war time lend lease after the war was over was considered by some a provocative and confrontational act?  :huh:

I'm not an expert, but yes, or at least sort-of.

The Soviet (and UK) economies were on 100% war footings.  There had been discussion about lend-lease continuing for a period of time after the end of hostilities (though certainly nothing binding) in order to allow for a transition to a peace-time economy.  But shortly after VJ-Day it ended immediately.

But how could it be a  "a provocative and confrontational act" if they treated the Soviet and yet their closest ally in a broadly similar fashion ?


Incidentally I don't buy the whole 'USA left the UK in the lurch at wars end/in the Anglo-American bank loan/treaty of 1946 the USA took advantage of the UK' etc.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 04, 2013, 08:41:16 PM
Quote from: Kleves on January 04, 2013, 08:10:23 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 04, 2013, 07:59:07 PM
Cutting the food aid in particular forced Stalin to immediately demobilize millions of soldiers in order to send them back to the farm.
It's horrible that the Soviets had to oppress eastern Europe with millions fewer soldiers than desired.  :(

Well there was a famine as well, but I think the Soviets could have worked out a deal with the US if they really wanted to.  I mean they were invited to the Marshal plan. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 05, 2013, 11:55:28 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 04, 2013, 10:30:10 AM
I won't be able to start until Thursday, unless I manage to find a copy at the San Francisco Airport
HA HA! I ordered mine off Amazon. with Prime and some saved up points it'll be delivered Tuesday and I don't have to pay for it.  Yays.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2013, 12:42:03 PM
I saw Oliver Stone and his buddy that have been doing their "Blame Everything On America" revisionist history series interviewed on MSNBC yesterday, and even though I always thought Stone was goofier than a shithouse mouse, he's been officially off the ledge apparently for quite some time now.

When Martin Bashir gives you a hard time about your goofyness, you know you're nuts.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 05, 2013, 02:58:10 PM
Watched Fargo. Was good. Surprised.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 05, 2013, 03:03:24 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 05, 2013, 02:58:10 PM
Watched Fargo. Was good. Surprised.

:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 05, 2013, 03:07:31 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 05, 2013, 03:03:24 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 05, 2013, 02:58:10 PM
Watched Fargo. Was good. Surprised.

:rolleyes:
I know. You are one of the book elitists.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 05, 2013, 11:12:10 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 05, 2013, 11:55:28 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 04, 2013, 10:30:10 AM
I won't be able to start until Thursday, unless I manage to find a copy at the San Francisco Airport
HA HA! I ordered mine off Amazon. with Prime and some saved up points it'll be delivered Tuesday and I don't have to pay for it.  Yays.
Points?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 05, 2013, 11:38:18 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 04, 2013, 11:15:09 AM
I don't agree that this Judt (in Post-War or elsewhere) assigns any blame to Truman or to the west for the Cold War. He considers the CW to have been inevitable. The alliance between the west and the SU was, in his word an "aberration". Emnity between the capitalist, liberal democracies and an authoritarian, communist one was the natural state of things. Thus there is no blame to attribute, save to those naive enough to believe that the cold war was avoidable.
Sorry, bad phrasing on my part. The official version which is now the norm (in Judt and, earlier, in Thomas) is that there were structural reasons for the Cold War, not least the nature of Bolshevism and that if any individual exacerbated it, it was Stalin.

I think a common view before then - drawing on American sources like the New Dealers and people around Roosevelt - who were quite naive about the USSR was that Western 'provocations' and Truman's bungling especially helped ruin the wartime alliance. In addition there was a more cynical, realist British view that informed that history that the USSR's demands were understandable and manageable. Now the view has swung back to the official version, but I think Thomas's book is one of the first in that revision.

QuoteBut how could it be a  "a provocative and confrontational act" if they treated the Soviet and yet their closest ally in a broadly similar fashion ?
The Anglo-American relationship was worse in 1945-6 than at any other point in the post-war era. We weren't really close allies in the way we were during the war or became after NATO was instituted.

QuoteThe Soviet (and UK) economies were on 100% war footings.  There had been discussion about lend-lease continuing for a period of time after the end of hostilities (though certainly nothing binding) in order to allow for a transition to a peace-time economy.  But shortly after VJ-Day it ended immediately.
There's more to it I'll come back to. But also the manner of ending it was just awful. The order came two days after VE day to end lend-lease except for goods essential for the war against Japan (which the USSR had agreed to enter) or for construction projects underway. This was interpreted very strictly, even though the Administration had wanted to handle it as smoothly as possible and to avoid linking it to the issues in Eastern Europe.

So there were ships travelling to the USSR with lend-lease materials that turned back mid-voyage, others that were being loaded that were emptied. Stalin saw it as an attempt to pressure them and told Hopkins (a naive New Dealer, in fairness) that the US was making a 'fundamental error' trying to soften up Russia like this. But even hardliners within the administration - like Harriman and Kennan - thought it was very badly handled and told the White House that. I think Truman eventually intervened and ordered that ships already being loaded or on their way should continue.

It was something the Soviets mentioned repeatedly (though disingenously) in future negotiations as a sign of how the US viewed relations with them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 05, 2013, 11:59:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 04, 2013, 09:52:29 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 04, 2013, 09:39:48 AM
7 weeks, 200 pages a day, I've finished my reread of the Wheel of Time just in time for the last book! :w00t:

:w00t:

You beat me, I finish book 13 a month ago. Took 2 years to read them all.

I haven't read any of those in ten years. :w00t:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on January 06, 2013, 12:00:51 AM
Anyone read the Xiaoping book?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Fireblade on January 06, 2013, 12:15:34 AM
I'm reading "A Game of Thrones" by George R. R. Martin. Yeah it's pretty obscure, but holy shit guys it's fucking awesome!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 06, 2013, 07:57:05 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 05, 2013, 11:59:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 04, 2013, 09:52:29 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 04, 2013, 09:39:48 AM
7 weeks, 200 pages a day, I've finished my reread of the Wheel of Time just in time for the last book! :w00t:

:w00t:

You beat me, I finish book 13 a month ago. Took 2 years to read them all.

I haven't read any of those in ten years. :w00t:
I ain't re-reading shit. I just want it to be over with.


Points tim, from my Amazon credit card.


Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 06, 2013, 08:16:51 AM
What did you think of the previous two Sanderson WOT books?

Have you read his other stuff? The Mistborn trilogy and The Way of Kings are particularly good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 06, 2013, 09:19:07 AM
Quote from: Fireblade on January 06, 2013, 12:15:34 AM
I'm reading "A Game of Thrones" by George R. R. Martin. Yeah it's pretty obscure, but holy shit guys it's fucking awesome!

They should make a series about it some day.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 06, 2013, 10:03:36 AM
I tried reading Wheel of Time, but quit the first book after less than a hundred pages. The cliché start (young half orphan with mysterious origins raised in a small village etc.) just was a massive turn off for me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 06, 2013, 09:06:32 PM
Mistborn was pretty good.  Way of Kings too, though I started and stopped several times.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 06, 2013, 09:33:36 PM
Have you read the Malazan: Book of the Fallen series? I've heard lots of good things, but I tried the first book when it came out like ten years ago and couldn't get into it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on January 08, 2013, 06:36:31 AM
Hah!

Gods bless Amazon and the Royal Mail...I have in my hands "A Memory of Light". Finally, after just over 20 long years... the climax! :D

[Yep, I bought the first volume when it was published in the UK in 1992.]
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 08, 2013, 06:47:00 AM
So jealous.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 08, 2013, 08:38:21 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 06, 2013, 09:33:36 PM
Have you read the Malazan: Book of the Fallen series? I've heard lots of good things, but I tried the first book when it came out like ten years ago and couldn't get into it.
Grallon recommended it to me a long time ago, and I think I pikced it up, but never really got into it. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on January 08, 2013, 08:43:28 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 08, 2013, 08:38:21 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 06, 2013, 09:33:36 PM
Have you read the Malazan: Book of the Fallen series? I've heard lots of good things, but I tried the first book when it came out like ten years ago and couldn't get into it.
Grallon recommended it to me a long time ago, and I think I pikced it up, but never really got into it.

The books are very variable; book one is fairly average, book two is good, book three is excellent, book four is average, book 5 is unreadable (OK, poor.), book 6 is very good, book 7 is good, book 8 is average, book 9 is excellent, book 10 is excellent.

I'd recommend them to people though- they're good enough as a story that I bought the last 3 in hardback (or whatever North Americans call it.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 08, 2013, 08:55:36 AM
I read the first one. I thought it was shit. Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on January 08, 2013, 09:17:07 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on January 08, 2013, 06:36:31 AM
Hah!

Gods bless Amazon and the Royal Mail...I have in my hands "A Memory of Light". Finally, after just over 20 long years... the climax! :D

[Yep, I bought the first volume when it was published in the UK in 1992.]

Lucky SOB, Amazon doesn't do preshipping here. I'll get my copy thursday at earliest, probably Monday.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on January 08, 2013, 09:25:25 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 08, 2013, 09:17:07 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on January 08, 2013, 06:36:31 AM
Hah!

Gods bless Amazon and the Royal Mail...I have in my hands "A Memory of Light". Finally, after just over 20 long years... the climax! :D

[Yep, I bought the first volume when it was published in the UK in 1992.]

Lucky SOB, Amazon doesn't do preshipping here. I'll get my copy thursday at earliest, probably Monday.

According to Amazon they handed it off to the Royal Mail at 20:19 last night - it arrived this morning around 11am. And I hadn't paid for premium delivery (always supersaver delivery for penny-pinching me!)

Hence why I was calling on the Gods to bless them. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on January 08, 2013, 09:31:12 AM
They deserve it.

It should ship today, the warehouse is almost 600km away tho.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 09, 2013, 12:26:14 AM
Stalin: Court of the Red Tsar. Fascinating book.

May go for Young Stalin, by the same author, or Taubman's Khruschev next.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 09, 2013, 01:16:30 AM
I've been thinking of reading that one day, I assume one should read Young Stalin if chronology is a concern.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 09, 2013, 02:48:43 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 09, 2013, 12:26:14 AM
Stalin: Court of the Red Tsar. Fascinating book.

May go for Young Stalin, by the same author, or Taubman's Khruschev next.

I've read mixed reviews on that.  One that it's interesting and gives a good idea what kind of man Stalin was, and others that say it focuses too much on gossip and not real history.  I've been on the fence on that one.   
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 09, 2013, 08:25:33 AM
live free or die free baen book.

Libertarian saves America despite itself from commie aliens. Darkies die in droves. Thanks John Ringo.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 09, 2013, 10:50:36 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 09, 2013, 02:48:43 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 09, 2013, 12:26:14 AM
Stalin: Court of the Red Tsar. Fascinating book.

May go for Young Stalin, by the same author, or Taubman's Khruschev next.

I've read mixed reviews on that.  One that it's interesting and gives a good idea what kind of man Stalin was, and others that say it focuses too much on gossip and not real history.  I've been on the fence on that one.   
That in the same vein of Young Robin Hood or Young INdiana Jones?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 09, 2013, 03:04:59 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 09, 2013, 02:48:43 AM
I've read mixed reviews on that.  One that it's interesting and gives a good idea what kind of man Stalin was, and others that say it focuses too much on gossip and not real history.  I've been on the fence on that one.
I don't like that dichotomy.

Court of the Red Tsar is an attempt at giving a biography of Stalin and the other leading Bolsheviks from, roughly, 1930 until the end of his life. It doesn't seem gossipy, I've only got the paperback version but there's a huge number of thanks for interviews with children of the Politburo and others, so it seems to be based on lots of original research.

But his goal isn't to tell you a great deal about the Ukrainian famine, or any of the other policies. Rather he's interested in how Stalin and those around him manage it. How they receive the information, or build the conspiracies, or denounce themselves or one another and then how they reach decisions that lead to the implementation of those policies.

With that you have the life of the magnates which moves from being pretty spartan but collegiate to being rather grim and terrifying. They'd get the call out to Stalin's dacha where he'd make them drink and play jokes on each other, or slow dance with one another, while he was actually drinking disguised water, weak tea or watered down wine.

I think it's no good if you want a history of the Stalinist period but is perhaps better if you want a sense of the mentality of the era. If you want to know about the Ukrainian famine or the purges then it'd be better getting a book about them, rather than this.

QuoteI've been thinking of reading that one day, I assume one should read Young Stalin if chronology is a concern.
Well I've just read Court of the Red Tsar which is 1930-53. Young Stalin's 1878-1917. But chronology's not a concern.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on January 09, 2013, 04:16:55 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 09, 2013, 03:04:59 PM
Well I've just read Court of the Red Tsar which is 1930-53. Young Stalin's 1878-1917. But chronology's not a concern.

I read Court first, then Young Stalin.  I found them both interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 09, 2013, 05:06:13 PM
What do you do if you interested in Stalin 1918-1929?

Anyways, I found A Memory of Light at the San Fran Airport! So happy!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 09, 2013, 05:18:35 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 09, 2013, 05:06:13 PM
What do you do if you interested in Stalin 1918-1929?
Read a biography, there's hundreds out there :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on January 09, 2013, 06:55:55 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 09, 2013, 05:06:13 PM
What do you do if you interested in Stalin 1918-1929?

Anyways, I found A Memory of Light at the San Fran Airport! So happy!

Congrats.

It was delivered today, Hardcovers are big, that's going to be hard to sneak into the bathroom.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 09, 2013, 09:01:52 PM
Wish the Kindle edition was out. I'd have preferred it to a hard copy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 09, 2013, 09:27:01 PM
I 'read' two books yesterday, well more like picture books ( :Embarrass:), by photographer Don McCullin and Robert Doisneau, still rather interesting and inspirational.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on January 10, 2013, 07:49:05 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 09, 2013, 09:01:52 PM
Wish the Kindle edition was out. I'd have preferred it to a hard copy.

I would have preferred the mass market paperback but I agree anything over this giant hard cover things.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 10, 2013, 08:56:53 AM
I liked the Court of the Red Tsar. It was an interesting study of pure power in private setting and the way people react to that power.

However, it is fair to question the quality of the "history" behind it. Most of teh sources are third hand (children of former leaders) and its anecdotal. But there's no other way to do such a study and you have to take it for what it is.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on January 16, 2013, 09:18:33 PM
Should I read an Harry Turtledove book? If so, which one?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 16, 2013, 09:20:03 PM
If you do, you will be beaten the Languish Intelligensia.

You have been warned.  You only get one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 16, 2013, 09:20:08 PM
Some of the Videssos books aren't bad. MIsplaced Legion series.  Avoid anything written after 1995. Or if that is impossible burn them.

I was bored one day in Barnes and Nobles and started reading his super volcano book. What a bore. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on January 16, 2013, 10:22:28 PM
What's the best book on D-Day + the campaign in Normandy? Same question for the Battle of the Bulge.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 16, 2013, 10:29:13 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 16, 2013, 09:20:08 PM
Some of the Videssos books aren't bad. MIsplaced Legion series.  Avoid anything written after 1995. Or if that is impossible burn them.

I was bored one day in Barnes and Nobles and started reading his super volcano book. What a bore.

I kinda liked the Byzantine James Bond one, where in each story he is confronted with some sort of super science.  Well super science for the middle ages.  He discovers plots involving moveable type, gunpowder, vaccines and distilled spirits.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 16, 2013, 10:37:54 PM
Quote from: Kleves on January 16, 2013, 10:22:28 PM
What's the best book on D-Day + the campaign in Normandy? Same question for the Battle of the Bulge.

Recently, Beevor's latest work on D-Day is superb.
Max Hastings' "Overlord" is dated, but good, although some people think Hastings can be overly critical and "pro-German", but I don't see it and I think he's appropriately critical of the Allies where they deserve it, particularly that cockmunch Monty.

BoB I've not read much on, but I did enjoy Charles MacDonald's "A Time For Trumpets".  Very comprehensive and accessible, and an excellent read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on January 16, 2013, 10:43:46 PM
I've read breevor's d-day and time for trumpets and agree with cdm, both are very good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 16, 2013, 11:59:45 PM
Quote from: sbr on January 16, 2013, 10:43:46 PM
I've read breevor's d-day and time for trumpets and agree with cdm, both are very good.

Yes, I read it a couple of months ago on an e-reader, so it must have been pretty good to encourage to finish it. 

I thought is coverage of 'war crimes' and arbitrary violence particularly interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on January 17, 2013, 06:32:06 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 16, 2013, 09:20:08 PM
Some of the Videssos books aren't bad. MIsplaced Legion series.  Avoid anything written after 1995. Or if that is impossible burn them.

I was bored one day in Barnes and Nobles and started reading his super volcano book. What a bore.

The Misplaced Legion series and the Krispos books are good reads; his adaptation of our world's history to a fantasy world is much better done than with any of his later works. Plus, of course, they're back when he was interested in the process of getting to the climax and not just the climax itself (in other words, the "story" was more important than the "message"/"goal".)

I second the recommendation for Agent of Byzantium as well.

If you must read any of his later books, avoid the long series and try "Ruled Britannia"; his collaboration with Richard Dreyfuss, "The Two Georges" isn't bad either, although that may just be my unreformed Imperialist tendencies biasing me there.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 17, 2013, 06:37:39 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 16, 2013, 09:18:33 PM
Should I read an Harry Turtledove book?

No.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 17, 2013, 07:42:51 AM
Agent of Byzantium was good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 17, 2013, 02:52:59 PM
Just read The Long Ships by Frans G. Bengtsson (in English translation, natch). It's one of the best historical fiction works I've read - I particularly enjoyed the author's dry, understated humour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Ships
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 17, 2013, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 17, 2013, 02:52:59 PM
Just read The Long Ships by Frans G. Bengtsson (in English translation, natch). It's one of the best historical fiction works I've read - I particularly enjoyed the author's dry, understated humour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Ships

It's an awesome book. Bengtsson's writing style was always great.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on January 17, 2013, 03:07:26 PM
Read Master and Commander  -  apart from not being entirely sure I understood what part of the ship he was talking about most of the time, I enjoyed the book and I am on to the second in the series.

I suspect one needs a kind of Grumbleresque first hand knowledge of tall ships to really enjoy this one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 17, 2013, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 17, 2013, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 17, 2013, 02:52:59 PM
Just read The Long Ships by Frans G. Bengtsson (in English translation, natch). It's one of the best historical fiction works I've read - I particularly enjoyed the author's dry, understated humour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Ships

It's an awesome book. Bengtsson's writing style was always great.

Btw, his Life of Charles XII could possibly be of interest. It's non-fiction and obviously somewhat dated, but his writing is excellent.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on January 17, 2013, 03:13:48 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 17, 2013, 03:07:26 PM
Read Master and Commander  -  apart from not being entirely sure I understood what part of the ship he was talking about most of the time, I enjoyed the book and I am on to the second in the series.

I suspect one needs a kind of Grumbleresque first hand knowledge of tall ships to really enjoy this one.

Just let the terminology wash over you without trying to understand what it means, and they are wonderful, wonderful stories.

I read the first then obsessively read the remaining 19 in the span of 18 months.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 17, 2013, 03:18:15 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 17, 2013, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 17, 2013, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 17, 2013, 02:52:59 PM
Just read The Long Ships by Frans G. Bengtsson (in English translation, natch). It's one of the best historical fiction works I've read - I particularly enjoyed the author's dry, understated humour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Ships

It's an awesome book. Bengtsson's writing style was always great.

Btw, his Life of Charles XII could possibly be of interest. It's non-fiction and obviously somewhat dated, but his writing is excellent.

Heh, I really do love his style. I'll have a look to see if there is a good English translation available of that bio. What a pity that The Long Ships is his only work of fiction!

Thanks for the tip!  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 17, 2013, 03:20:01 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 17, 2013, 03:07:26 PM
Read Master and Commander  -  apart from not being entirely sure I understood what part of the ship he was talking about most of the time, I enjoyed the book and I am on to the second in the series.

I suspect one needs a kind of Grumbleresque first hand knowledge of tall ships to really enjoy this one.

9 out of 10 debauched sloths agree.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 17, 2013, 03:21:52 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 17, 2013, 03:07:26 PM
Read Master and Commander  -  apart from not being entirely sure I understood what part of the ship he was talking about most of the time, I enjoyed the book and I am on to the second in the series.

I suspect one needs a kind of Grumbleresque first hand knowledge of tall ships to really enjoy this one.
I have a book called something like A Glossary for the Aubrey and Maturin series or some such that explains it all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 17, 2013, 03:22:32 PM
I think Languish knows all the technical terms for buggery, thank you very much.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on January 17, 2013, 03:23:33 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 17, 2013, 03:22:32 PM
I think Languish knows all the technical terms for buggery, thank you very much.

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 17, 2013, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 17, 2013, 03:07:26 PM
Read Master and Commander  -  apart from not being entirely sure I understood what part of the ship he was talking about most of the time, I enjoyed the book and I am on to the second in the series.

I suspect one needs a kind of Grumbleresque first hand knowledge of tall ships to really enjoy this one.

Stern=rear or aft-most part of ship.

Bow=front or foremost part of ship.

;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 17, 2013, 03:38:31 PM
Poop deck is where the magic happens.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 17, 2013, 03:50:59 PM
I just thought they pooped off the deck.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on January 17, 2013, 04:26:51 PM
I enjoyed the Aubrey & Maturin series immensely, up until about the 10th or 11th book in the series. So enjoy the trip CC :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on January 17, 2013, 04:29:00 PM
My most recent read was River of Smoke by Amitav Ghosh - the second in the trilogy after Sea of Poppies.

The action primarily takes place in Shanghai. It's interesting to see bits on the opium trade and wars from a different perspective than usual, but overall I thought the book a little more disjointed than what I had come to expect.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2013, 04:58:24 PM
Anyways, with regards to A Memory of Light, I really loved the second half of the book. However the first half could have been better, there's just so much going on that isn't completely fleshed out. The 1st 24 chapters should really have been expanded into their own 8-900 page book. The second half would only need a prologue and a little fleshing out here and there to make it's own complete 500 page novel.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 17, 2013, 04:59:30 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 17, 2013, 07:42:51 AM
Agent of Byzantium was good.

Bearable? Sure. Good? :yeahright:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 17, 2013, 09:01:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 17, 2013, 04:59:30 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 17, 2013, 07:42:51 AM
Agent of Byzantium was good.

Bearable? Sure. Good? :yeahright:
I was young and remember it being good.


Just finished Memory of Light. Enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 17, 2013, 09:42:28 PM
Anyone else notice the price of paperbacks has soared over the past year? :mad: New paperbacks are now going for close to $20. :( (Cdn)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 17, 2013, 09:45:26 PM
I buy all my books on Amazon, so...no, I haven't noticed that they've gone close to $20 in price.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 17, 2013, 09:47:29 PM
well they have...look at the pre-discount price on amazon.

DAnce of dragons, for instance, on amazon.ca (which comes out in spring) is listed at a pre-discount price of $21 cdn.

The earlier paperbacks in the series were $10.99

http://www.amazon.ca/Dance-Dragons-Song-Fire-Book/dp/055338595X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358477094&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.ca/Storm-Swords-Song-Fire-Three/dp/055357342X/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358477253&sr=1-5
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 17, 2013, 10:35:10 PM
Why would anyone pay a pre-discount price on Amazon?  I suppose if you bought your books in stores, that it would indeed suck to have them cost more, but that's pretty much always been true when compared to Amazon's prices.

In comparison, by the way, ADwD is US$12.24.

http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Dragons-Song-Fire-Book/dp/055338595X/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1358479862&sr=8-1

The Kindle version is $14.99.

Then there's the "Mass-Market Paperback" version at $9.99 :

http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Dragons-Song-Fire-Book/dp/0553582011/ref=tmm_mmp_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1358479862&sr=8-1
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 17, 2013, 10:40:14 PM
I buy my paperbacks at the bookstore, because I can't skeeve on the teenyboppers in the "Teen Paranormal Romance" section on Amazon.  Fuck the price.  It's an eye candy surcharge.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 18, 2013, 06:53:57 AM
Yeah.  I rarely buy books anymore in hardcopy because of that.  I either get them through the library or just get the kindle edition when they're on sale. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on January 18, 2013, 07:21:03 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2013, 04:58:24 PM
Anyways, with regards to A Memory of Light, I really loved the second half of the book. However the first half could have been better, there's just so much going on that isn't completely fleshed out. The 1st 24 chapters should really have been expanded into their own 8-900 page book. The second half would only need a prologue and a little fleshing out here and there to make it's own complete 500 page novel.

Well, I knew that the book could not possibly live up to my expectations given the many years it had had to build up, but overall it wasn't bad. About 3 stars out of 5 if I was doing it as a movie rating for a British TV magazine.

However, it definitely needed a better equivalent of television's script editor; for example, there's one major scene between Egwene and Tuon that makes no sense whatsoever in the context of what has gone before [spoiler]since Tremalking was clearly not in Seanchan hands prior to Rand's cleansing of the source and the suicide of the Amayar, and they were hardly in a position to conquer it afterwards; the scene should surely be referring to the Aile Somera.[/spoiler] There's other examples as well [spoiler]such as the opening scene of chapter 1 which says Taren Ferry has been destroyed, implying that the Two Rivers has been attacked as we know that as of LoC Taren Ferry had been resettled - and yet later on shipments of arrows are still coming out of the Two Rivers. Taren Ferry, as of the EotW, being on the south bank of the river, not the north.[/spoiler]:hmm:

And as for the last couple of scenes...well, the less said the better (not the ending, which isn't bad, just the last couple of scenes.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 18, 2013, 08:03:52 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 17, 2013, 10:40:14 PM
I buy my paperbacks at the bookstore, because I can't skeeve on the teenyboppers in the "Teen Paranormal Romance" section on Amazon.  Fuck the price.  It's an eye candy surcharge.

:)

Also, I hang out outside of Hot Topic.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 18, 2013, 08:23:02 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 17, 2013, 04:29:00 PM
My most recent read was River of Smoke by Amitav Ghosh - the second in the trilogy after Sea of Poppies.

The action primarily takes place in Shanghai. It's interesting to see bits on the opium trade and wars from a different perspective than usual, but overall I thought the book a little more disjointed than what I had come to expect.

I quite liked Sea of Poppies but he's not very good at plotting, tries to pack too much in.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 18, 2013, 08:30:32 AM
Quote from: Gups on January 18, 2013, 08:23:02 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 17, 2013, 04:29:00 PM
My most recent read was River of Smoke by Amitav Ghosh - the second in the trilogy after Sea of Poppies.

The action primarily takes place in Shanghai. It's interesting to see bits on the opium trade and wars from a different perspective than usual, but overall I thought the book a little more disjointed than what I had come to expect.

I quite liked Sea of Poppies but he's not very good at plotting, tries to pack too much in.
I first read this as Sea of Ponies, and thought you were into some weird Brony shit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 18, 2013, 08:39:12 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 17, 2013, 09:01:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 17, 2013, 04:59:30 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 17, 2013, 07:42:51 AM
Agent of Byzantium was good.

Bearable? Sure. Good? :yeahright:
I was young and remember it being good.

I was young and remember it being meh. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2013, 08:44:51 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on January 18, 2013, 07:21:03 AM


Well, I knew that the book could not possibly live up to my expectations given the many years it had had to build up, but overall it wasn't bad. About 3 stars out of 5 if I was doing it as a movie rating for a British TV magazine.

However, it definitely needed a better equivalent of television's script editor; for example, there's one major scene between Egwene and Tuon that makes no sense whatsoever in the context of what has gone before [spoiler]since Tremalking was clearly not in Seanchan hands prior to Rand's cleansing of the source and the suicide of the Amayar, and they were hardly in a position to conquer it afterwards; the scene should surely be referring to the Aile Somera.[/spoiler] There's other examples as well [spoiler]such as the opening scene of chapter 1 which says Taren Ferry has been destroyed, implying that the Two Rivers has been attacked as we know that as of LoC Taren Ferry had been resettled - and yet later on shipments of arrows are still coming out of the Two Rivers. Taren Ferry, as of the EotW, being on the south bank of the river, not the north.[/spoiler]:hmm:

And as for the last couple of scenes...well, the less said the better (not the ending, which isn't bad, just the last couple of scenes.)

#1 - Yes it was. Most of the other isles were free, but Tremalking was definitely occupied.

#2 - I didn't notice the arrow thing. What page?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 18, 2013, 08:49:15 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 17, 2013, 10:40:14 PM
I buy my paperbacks at the bookstore, because I can't skeeve on the teenyboppers in the "Teen Paranormal Romance" section on Amazon.  Fuck the price.  It's an eye candy surcharge.

Mindy Kaling had a bit about this on her show. Like any real person she buys her books online, but goes to the store and pretends to be looking for books to check people out. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on January 18, 2013, 09:21:41 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2013, 08:44:51 AM
#1 - Yes it was. Most of the other isles were free, but Tremalking was definitely occupied.

It wasn't as of the Amayar leaving to take the message to the other Isles. Nor was it occupied as of Logain's meeting with the wavemistresses prior to shipping food to Arad Doman (since they specifically mentioned only the difficulty the Amayar had in getting to the Aile Somera, not in getting off Tremalking.)

So when did the Seanchan conquer Tremalking? All that's left is doing it during the period when they were canonically consolidating following the arrival of the news of the civil war in Seanchan.

Give me chapter and verse prior to the final volume where it says Tremalking was conquered, please?

Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2013, 08:44:51 AM#2 - I didn't notice the arrow thing. What page?

It's taking me longer to find than I thought; I thought I recalled it in one of Tam's scenes, but the last 30 odd minutes searching haven't turned it up. I'll get back to it when I can.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2013, 09:25:50 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 18, 2013, 08:49:15 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 17, 2013, 10:40:14 PM
I buy my paperbacks at the bookstore, because I can't skeeve on the teenyboppers in the "Teen Paranormal Romance" section on Amazon.  Fuck the price.  It's an eye candy surcharge.

Mindy Kaling had a bit about this on her show. Like any real person she buys her books online, but goes to the store and pretends to be looking for books to check people out. :D

That's how Ed met his future wife, after all.  Cruising the "Young Adult" section.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2013, 10:11:14 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on January 18, 2013, 09:21:41 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2013, 08:44:51 AM
#1 - Yes it was. Most of the other isles were free, but Tremalking was definitely occupied.

It wasn't as of the Amayar leaving to take the message to the other Isles. Nor was it occupied as of Logain's meeting with the wavemistresses prior to shipping food to Arad Doman (since they specifically mentioned only the difficulty the Amayar had in getting to the Aile Somera, not in getting off Tremalking.)

So when did the Seanchan conquer Tremalking? All that's left is doing it during the period when they were canonically consolidating following the arrival of the news of the civil war in Seanchan.

Give me chapter and verse prior to the final volume where it says Tremalking was conquered, please?

Hmm...I might have been thinking of Cantorin.  Sanderson likely was as well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on January 18, 2013, 10:14:43 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2013, 10:11:14 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on January 18, 2013, 09:21:41 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2013, 08:44:51 AM
#1 - Yes it was. Most of the other isles were free, but Tremalking was definitely occupied.

It wasn't as of the Amayar leaving to take the message to the other Isles. Nor was it occupied as of Logain's meeting with the wavemistresses prior to shipping food to Arad Doman (since they specifically mentioned only the difficulty the Amayar had in getting to the Aile Somera, not in getting off Tremalking.)

So when did the Seanchan conquer Tremalking? All that's left is doing it during the period when they were canonically consolidating following the arrival of the news of the civil war in Seanchan.

Give me chapter and verse prior to the final volume where it says Tremalking was conquered, please?

Hmm...I might have been thinking of Cantorin.  Sanderson likely was as well.

Cantorin in the Aile Somera, IIRC.

I might have to get back to looking for the "arrows" reference tomorrow. It appears I need to go out into the snow now. :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 18, 2013, 01:54:29 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2013, 09:25:50 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 18, 2013, 08:49:15 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 17, 2013, 10:40:14 PM
I buy my paperbacks at the bookstore, because I can't skeeve on the teenyboppers in the "Teen Paranormal Romance" section on Amazon.  Fuck the price.  It's an eye candy surcharge.

Mindy Kaling had a bit about this on her show. Like any real person she buys her books online, but goes to the store and pretends to be looking for books to check people out. :D

That's how Ed met his future wife, after all.  Cruising the "Young Adult" section.

Magazines actually.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2013, 02:19:10 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 18, 2013, 01:54:29 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2013, 09:25:50 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 18, 2013, 08:49:15 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 17, 2013, 10:40:14 PM
I buy my paperbacks at the bookstore, because I can't skeeve on the teenyboppers in the "Teen Paranormal Romance" section on Amazon.  Fuck the price.  It's an eye candy surcharge.

Mindy Kaling had a bit about this on her show. Like any real person she buys her books online, but goes to the store and pretends to be looking for books to check people out. :D

That's how Ed met his future wife, after all.  Cruising the "Young Adult" section.

Magazines actually.

Tiger Beat.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2013, 02:23:28 PM
Highlights
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 18, 2013, 02:26:07 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 17, 2013, 04:29:00 PM
My most recent read was River of Smoke by Amitav Ghosh - the second in the trilogy after Sea of Poppies.

The action primarily takes place in Shanghai. It's interesting to see bits on the opium trade and wars from a different perspective than usual, but overall I thought the book a little more disjointed than what I had come to expect.
Haven't read it, but I wasn't terribly impressed with The Glass Palace. It seemed a bit predictable and very uneven. So far I've given the Opium Wars trilogy a miss.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 18, 2013, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2013, 02:19:10 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 18, 2013, 01:54:29 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2013, 09:25:50 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 18, 2013, 08:49:15 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 17, 2013, 10:40:14 PM
I buy my paperbacks at the bookstore, because I can't skeeve on the teenyboppers in the "Teen Paranormal Romance" section on Amazon.  Fuck the price.  It's an eye candy surcharge.

Mindy Kaling had a bit about this on her show. Like any real person she buys her books online, but goes to the store and pretends to be looking for books to check people out. :D

That's how Ed met his future wife, after all.  Cruising the "Young Adult" section.

Magazines actually.

Tiger Beat.

She still has her boy band posters.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on January 18, 2013, 04:41:30 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 18, 2013, 02:26:07 PMHaven't read it, but I wasn't terribly impressed with The Glass Palace. It seemed a bit predictable and very uneven. So far I've given the Opium Wars trilogy a miss.

I never got into the Glass Palace. I think I read the first two pages and decided that I didn't really care.

Sea of Poppies was interesting I thought, and it kept me engaged. The subject and setting is one where you almost always see things from the perspective of Brits serving their crown one way or another, so it's an interesting change of pace to see it from some other perspectives. I didn't find it particularly predictable.

By River of Smoke it got too disjointed, and he's a bit more moralizing as well, which I found disappointing. I think he spent too long researching and not enough time editing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on January 18, 2013, 04:43:13 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 18, 2013, 08:23:02 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 17, 2013, 04:29:00 PM
My most recent read was River of Smoke by Amitav Ghosh - the second in the trilogy after Sea of Poppies.

The action primarily takes place in Shanghai. It's interesting to see bits on the opium trade and wars from a different perspective than usual, but overall I thought the book a little more disjointed than what I had come to expect.

I quite liked Sea of Poppies but he's not very good at plotting, tries to pack too much in.

River of Smoke is downhill from that, alas. I'll still read the last one, just to see if he can pull it out of the fire.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2013, 04:52:59 PM
Quote from: Kleves on January 16, 2013, 10:22:28 PM
What's the best book on D-Day + the campaign in Normandy? Same question for the Battle of the Bulge.

More of a "literary work" rather than a straight up comprehensive history, but I have a total mancrush on Keegan's "Six Armies at Normandy."  He gives like a little mini cultural/military history of the six nationalities that fought at Normandy (Krauts, Good Guys, Brits, Canucks, Polacks, Frogs) then feeds that into one signifcant part of the Normandy campaign that the country took part in.  For example Yanks are featured in the airborne landing.

When I was in high school I read Peter Eisenhower's book on the Bulge.  Very comprehensive.  Not light reading.  Maps are decent.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 23, 2013, 01:38:31 AM
Anyone here familiar with Peter F. Hamilton?

He got recommended to me by a friend when I said I'm looking for decent sci-fi to read.

I started with Mindstar Rising. It's the first book of a three part series about a former elite soldier with telepathic enhancements who now works as private investigator.

I'm a quarter into the book, though, and I feel thoroughly bored.

I like the setting: England post-global warming, and after a socialist party has nearly ruined the country - it's now being rebuilt by conservatives and benevolent enterpreneurs. Yes, the book was published during the Blair years. :lol: Obvious political message aside, though, he does a good job of giving you a picture of how the country has changed.

However, the plot is not really that interesting, and even the interesting bits are told, not shown. The protagonist is hired by an enterpreneur to sniff out a case of suspected industrial sabotage in one of the orbital factories. Using his intuitive and extrasensory abilities he quickly finds out that the production isn't faulty, but only recorded as such, and that someone skims it off to sell it. Anyways, a big deal is made out of it how he has a bad hunch about going to the station, and that his hunches are usually right etc. Also, he's never been in space and is nervous about it.

So you think, "Golly, this could make for an interesting story if he uncovers the plot, and the antagonist tries to keep it quiet, culminating in a dramatic, and hopefully inventive action scene that forces the hero to go to his limits nin the unfamiliar environment."

What happens in reality: he goes up there, adjusts immediately to moving about in near zero-g, and talks to the security chief.

The very next scene tells us through the other main character of the story that he has apprehended all the infiltrators. Err, ok. The hunch he had turned out to be that there was a second sabotage plot going on and we're told what it is. Next scene they apprehend the last guy of that second operation, remarking how he fortunately didn't give them nearly as much trouble as the other guy who went berserk.

Hero returns to Earth, there's a briefing about who was behind the whole scheme, how they discovered it and why. End of Act 1.

As said, about 1/4 into the book, and there's rarely been a moment when I've been drawn into the story - the protagonist has yet to be in a situation where his skills are seriously challenged and you wonder how/if he gets out of a bad situation (psychologically or physically). The tensest situation was at the beginning when he used his psychic abilities to quiet a hyperreligious father who wanted to take his sexy young daughter back to the commune. (Protagonist and girl end up being an item.) The story is interspersed with people travelling around (cross country trip, riding out, driving through a city) to dump exposition about the setting on us. The only really compelling character is the 17 year old heiress to her grandfather's corporation who is torn between the self doubt that comes with growing up, and the responsibility of running the company after his death.

So my question is: Are all his books like this? Or is this a one off?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 23, 2013, 04:41:02 AM
Yep, I've read two books by Peter Hamilton - Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained, two parts of the same story.

Set quite a long way into the future. people can regenerate etc and wormholes are used for travel. Ends up with humans fighting a batter for survival against another species.

They were OK. Plotting was fine and the description of the evolution of the enemy species (which took a solid 150 pages or so) was genuinely engrossing. The trouble with most sci-fi and fantasy is that they are poorly written. A lot of people don't care much about this (or don't know any better) but it buggers up my suspension of disbelief. Peter Hamilton is no exception. He's not a terrible writer but he's not very good either.

I usually end up sating any compulsion for sci-fi with Iain M Banks, who actually can write well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 23, 2013, 06:57:09 AM
I've read his Night's Dawn books. They weren't bad, but could get kinda bogged down in travelogues.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 23, 2013, 07:07:53 AM
Just finishing Nick Harkaway's Angelmaker.

It's very good. On a par with the Goneaway World. Like Neal Stephenson with jokes. Not perfect (tendency to digress a bit too much and overcomplicate the plot) but very enjoyable and much more interesting than the likes of Gaiman and Aaronovitch.

Hope he progresses as a writer because he has the potential for greatness in his genre, just like his Dad.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 23, 2013, 07:44:01 AM
Read the same ones as Gups, really liked them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 23, 2013, 07:58:32 AM
Quote from: Gups on January 23, 2013, 04:41:02 AM
Yep, I've read two books by Peter Hamilton - Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained, two parts of the same story.

Set quite a long way into the future. people can regenerate etc and wormholes are used for travel. Ends up with humans fighting a batter for survival against another species.

They were OK. Plotting was fine and the description of the evolution of the enemy species (which took a solid 150 pages or so) was genuinely engrossing. The trouble with most sci-fi and fantasy is that they are poorly written. A lot of people don't care much about this (or don't know any better) but it buggers up my suspension of disbelief. Peter Hamilton is no exception. He's not a terrible writer but he's not very good either.

I usually end up sating any compulsion for sci-fi with Iain M Banks, who actually can write well.

Thanks, Gups, I'll check out Banks instead.

Regarding the first bit of the book, it gave me a workout in "how to make this more interesting and dramatic"? What if the hero did not adjust to the weightlessness so easily? What if there was a suspicious accident on the flight up? What if when mindread the people he misread someone who was guilty over something else, leading to a wrongful arrest? Or if one saboteur could block or deflect his attempt because he was also enhanced? When the hero realizes his mistake he stops trusting his special abilities and doubts his own judgment.

Further, we are told that the work in the orbital factory is pretty shitty, even if you have a decent employer. What if the mood has been tense before he arrived? Now he's making arrests left and right - what will the workers say? What if it's framed (maybe by the antagonist, or by arresting an innocent) as a narc rooting out undesirables from the work staff? Could this trigger a striker or riot? How will this play out, considering firearms are forbidden on the station? Has someone smuggled one aboard, or built one up there? And how will the hero react to the situation, cast in self doubt, in the uncomfortable and unknown environment? Will he overcome the shortcomings and learn to trust not only his special powers?

Clichéed? Sure. But infinitely more appealing than just phoning in, "Job done! No problems!"



But I agree that a lot of published fantasy and sci-fi is written be hacks. A good story and setting and interesting characters can make up for a lot in that regard, though. Still, my favorite disappointment were the Mass Effect books. I loved the first two games (haven't played the third much yet), and got the books written by the writer of the games. I had to put the first book aside, because it was horrific to read in style and plot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 23, 2013, 09:39:44 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 23, 2013, 07:58:32 AM
[Thanks, Gups, I'll check out Banks instead.

Pretty sure you'll enjoy him. He has big ideas and he knows how to put them into words. He aslo has a great sense of humour.

Recommend that you start with Consider Phlebas or The Player of Games.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 23, 2013, 02:37:51 PM
Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 23, 2013, 04:02:39 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 23, 2013, 09:39:44 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 23, 2013, 07:58:32 AM
[Thanks, Gups, I'll check out Banks instead.

Pretty sure you'll enjoy him. He has big ideas and he knows how to put them into words. He aslo has a great sense of humour.

Recommend that you start with Consider Phlebas or The Player of Games.

Good recommendations.

Either 'version' of him is acceptable, though I have been disappointed once or twice; the one set in the East of Scotland commune/cult/church was rather thin. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on January 23, 2013, 06:00:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 23, 2013, 01:38:31 AMI like the setting: England post-global warming, and after a socialist party has nearly ruined the country - it's now being rebuilt by conservatives and benevolent enterpreneurs. Yes, the book was published during the Blair years. :lol: Obvious political message aside, though, he does a good job of giving you a picture of how the country has changed.

Actually, it was published in 1993; John Major and the Tories were in power. :bowler:

It's also his very first book, so if you expect it to be him at his best then somebody misled you.  :P

On the other hand, I still find it enjoyable probably because I first read it when I was at University. :)

As for his best books...well, he's one of those odd authors where the longer the book/concept is, the better his books are.

His stand alones, such as "Fallen Dragon", are pretty dire (note that although it's on my shelf I haven't read his latest stand alone yet.) His absolute worst book is "Misspent Youth" - I've never been able to finish it.

Conversely, probably his best books are the "Night's Dawn" Trilogy, all three of which are 1000 page plus tomes. His second best books are almost certainly his Duology "Pandora's Star" and "Judas Unchained" (which, quite ironically given what I have said above, are set in the future of the "Misspent Youth" universe.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 26, 2013, 09:13:51 AM
Surprised there's little, if any, talk about Alan Furst on here. By far, imo, the best writer of historical spy novels. I've read many, but just recently finished The Spies of Warsaw and it's his best. It's tailor made for this crowd. It takes place, mostly, in Warsaw in the mid to late 30s. German, Russian and French spies are everywhere. A German engineer in Warsaw to meet his mistress is recruited by the French to pass on tank secrets. We have beautiful seductive women, Russian operatives who want to defect, and leftist Nazis on the run. Amazing stuff. He's very subtle in his writing. evocative. Recommended.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 28, 2013, 11:19:36 AM
My bedside book at the moment is Martin Gilbert's The Second World War, a chronicle more than an analytical book.

Still, it made me LOL on two occasions so far. About the British leaflet bombing campaign in 1939/40: one pilot dropped a pack of leaflets without opening the bundle first. According to a joke he was reprimanded: "You could have killed someone!"

When the Brits finally decided to drop some bombs on Germany they target the island of Sylt. As Gilbert says, one bomber navigator's skill wasn't matched by his enthusiasm. He directed his pilot to the wrong island, sea and country - they dropped their bombs on Danish Bornholm. :lol:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fd%2Fdf%2FDenmark_location_bornholm.svg%2F220px-Denmark_location_bornholm.svg.png&hash=63023744bffc693f16dbbc2bbf909dc4e2e6fbc1)
Bornholm in red. Sylt is in the bottom left.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 29, 2013, 06:05:54 AM
Following seeing Django Unchained - are there recommendable books about "the peculiar institution"? U.S. only or broad historic overview (antiquity to modern times) would be fine.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 29, 2013, 09:27:57 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 29, 2013, 06:05:54 AM
Following seeing Django Unchained - are there recommendable books about "the peculiar institution"? U.S. only or broad historic overview (antiquity to modern times) would be fine.

A good one about abolitionism in the UK is Bury the Chains by Adam Hochschild (who wrote the excellent King Leopold's Ghost about slavery in the Congo).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 29, 2013, 09:45:54 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 28, 2013, 11:19:36 AM
Still, it made me LOL on two occasions so far. About the British leaflet bombing campaign in 1939/40: one pilot dropped a pack of leaflets without opening the bundle first. According to a joke he was reprimanded: "You could have killed someone!"

Reminds me of the plan to shock Hitler into a heart attack by dropping Kraut animal fucking porn on Berlin.

Supposedly the bomber crews assigned the mission mutinied and refused to do it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on January 29, 2013, 12:31:46 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 29, 2013, 06:05:54 AM
Following seeing Django Unchained - are there recommendable books about "the peculiar institution"? U.S. only or broad historic overview (antiquity to modern times) would be fine.

http://www.amazon.com/Roll-Jordan-World-Slaves-Made/dp/0394716523
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 29, 2013, 01:44:46 PM
Thank you, guys! :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 31, 2013, 05:15:51 PM
The Three Musketeers. Loved it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 31, 2013, 05:22:23 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 31, 2013, 05:15:51 PM
The Three Musketeers. Loved it.

Did you notice how the film versions have all sanitized d'Artagnans rape of the servant girl?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 31, 2013, 05:28:18 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 31, 2013, 05:22:23 PM
Did you notice how the film versions have all sanitized d'Artagnans rape of the servant girl?
Kitty? I think my translation interpreted that a bit differently :o

He sleeps with Milady when she thinks he's des Wardes, which is rapey.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 31, 2013, 05:46:46 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 31, 2013, 05:15:51 PM
The Three Musketeers. Loved it.

Which one?  There's like 6 of them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 31, 2013, 05:51:47 PM
I liked the Charlie Sheen movie.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on January 31, 2013, 06:00:50 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 31, 2013, 05:15:51 PM
The Three Musketeers. Loved it.

Yeah, I read it a few years back and it is good fun.  I laughed out loud during the part where they were having their lunch on the battlefield when making their plans so as not to be overheard.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on February 03, 2013, 09:47:43 PM
Finished Reading 1632. It was a fun read. Something akin to watching an hour of mindless reality TV. I don't think I will read any other book in the series tho.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 03, 2013, 11:53:53 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 03, 2013, 09:47:43 PM
Finished Reading 1632. It was a fun read. Something akin to watching an hour of mindless reality TV. I don't think I will read any other book in the series tho.

I've only read the Gustavus Adolphus parts. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on February 04, 2013, 09:13:42 AM
I mostly skipped those parts. :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 04, 2013, 09:34:39 AM
I liked the 1632 stuff that was written by Flint and Weber, it was fun and mindless.  Then Baen turned it over to fanfiction writers and it was boring crap.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 04, 2013, 01:33:14 PM
Finished the second book in the Master and Commander series - Post Captain.

You guys were right, this is becoming addicting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 04, 2013, 01:34:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2013, 01:33:14 PM
Finished the second book in the Master and Commander series - Post Captain.

You guys were right, this is becoming addicting.

Next one is arguably the best in the series.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on February 04, 2013, 01:38:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 04, 2013, 01:34:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2013, 01:33:14 PM
Finished the second book in the Master and Commander series - Post Captain.

You guys were right, this is becoming addicting.

Next one is arguably the best in the series.

I think it's all pretty good for the first ten.  It's only 11-20 that are maybe just a little bit less fun than the first half, if anything.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 04, 2013, 01:44:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 04, 2013, 01:38:54 PM
I think it's all pretty good for the first ten.  It's only 11-20 that are maybe just a little bit less fun than the first half, if anything.

I thought the one about slavers was so so, as were the cuppa too tree books on that extended Pacific interlude.  Wine Dark Sea is bad.  The one about the 100 days and the one about leading the Chilean navy are bad.

Prominent high points for me are Master and Commander, HMS Surprise, and The Mauritius Campaign.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 04, 2013, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 04, 2013, 01:34:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2013, 01:33:14 PM
Finished the second book in the Master and Commander series - Post Captain.

You guys were right, this is becoming addicting.

Next one is arguably the best in the series.

I will be leaving for the bookstore shortly then.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PRC on February 04, 2013, 02:07:57 PM
E
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2013, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 04, 2013, 01:34:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2013, 01:33:14 PM
Finished the second book in the Master and Commander series - Post Captain.

You guys were right, this is becoming addicting.

Next one is arguably the best in the series.

I will be leaving for the bookstore shortly then.

I love these books, have read all 20 several times through now.  HMS Surprise, imo, is where the characters really become themselves for the rest of the canon.  Book 5 (Desolation Island) to Book 14 (The Nutmeg of Consolation) is such a great run. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 04, 2013, 02:20:42 PM
The Ionian Mission is also damn good, especially after they get to the Ionian.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 05, 2013, 01:56:38 AM
Stephen King wrote a sequel to the Shinning!   :hmm:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/feb/04/stephen-king-shining-sequel-doctor-sleep
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on February 05, 2013, 02:22:38 PM
Max Boot's Invisible Armies.  An interesting book, but one glaring typo near the very beginning: 66 AD is not 200 years after 166 BC.

I can't believe no one caught that.

Reminds me of the typo in the first printing, first edition on the first page of Pevear and Volokhonsky's translation of War and Peace- the first sentence in French in the whole book, and 'et' is replaced with 'and.'  Only English word in the whole damn sentence.  Subsequent printings from the first edition have it corrected.  But I have the typo copy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 05, 2013, 07:17:15 PM
Seefor read me the riot act once for reading Max Boot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 06, 2013, 04:53:39 AM
Why?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 06, 2013, 05:06:26 AM
Max Boot was evil or something. I laughed at him.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on February 07, 2013, 09:53:42 AM
Finished Musashi.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/156836427X

Written in the 30s about Japan's most famous (historical) swordsman, this novel is well worth reading - for one, it's a rollicking read; but for another, it is a glimpse into a truly different set of cultural romantic expectations (for those of us who are not Japanese).

The ostensible subject is the adventures of a wandering swordsman, but very quickly it becomes obvious that the real subject is the quest for self-improvement - is this quest a noble one, or ultimately selfish? Everywhere our hero goes, disaster follows - he leaves the woman who loves him, and others who depend on him, basically to fend for themselves; his quest seems to be in equal parts a quest to perfect his murdering prowess and to perfect his skill in all of the arts - he's part serial killer and part artist, eventually able to appreciate a blood feud and flower-arranging (there is one passage in which he realizes the skill of a samurai by the message he passes on - which contains the gift of a cut flower; the cut of the stem is perfect).

The hero gradually comes to realize that perfection has to serve a social purpose, but it is not at all obvious what, exactly, that purpose is to be.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 15, 2013, 02:17:08 AM
Quote from: Gups on January 23, 2013, 09:39:44 AM
Pretty sure you'll enjoy him. He has big ideas and he knows how to put them into words. He aslo has a great sense of humour.

Recommend that you start with Consider Phlebas or The Player of Games.

I'm about half way through Consider Phlebas (end of the Damage game on Vavatch) and having a good time with it. It's satirical exaggeration and casual callousness reminds me of Transmetropolitan a fair bit, and I'd be surprised if Ellis wasn't at least partly influenced by Banks in his portrayal of the future.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on February 26, 2013, 09:16:56 PM
Back to the Eastern Front  ;)

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPs8Q-43TGe0dpeFixRHA2KeRjCKaYV0AtmRK5yjjL6G8eWhTv5Q)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 26, 2013, 09:19:08 PM
East front sucks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 26, 2013, 10:04:53 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 26, 2013, 09:16:56 PM
Back to the Eastern Front  ;)

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPs8Q-43TGe0dpeFixRHA2KeRjCKaYV0AtmRK5yjjL6G8eWhTv5Q)

"Breathtaking in it's scope."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on February 26, 2013, 10:43:23 PM
Currently reading The Steel Bonnets, by George MacDonald Fraser.  Good stuff.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71VAKmb5R9L.jpg
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on February 27, 2013, 08:36:13 AM
Finished reading Alan Furst's Mission to Paris....did I ever mention how brilliant he is?

Also read Flashback by Dan Simmons, a dystopian future of an America ruined by Obama's spending and a population addicted to a new drug that allows them to relive moments of their lives.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on February 27, 2013, 09:18:44 AM
Reading this :

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51QHuBom30L._SL500_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-big%2CTopRight%2C35%2C-73_OU15_.jpg&hash=c552fe5e48b2f243f2ca30999a19a9f0e6c5de38)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 27, 2013, 09:40:07 AM
That Improbable bit seems like an odd subhead.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Caliga on February 27, 2013, 09:50:35 AM
For some reason I have no interest whatsoever in Australian history, but I've read up on the history of New Zealand a bit. :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 27, 2013, 09:53:57 AM
Quote from: Caliga on February 27, 2013, 09:50:35 AM
For some reason I have no interest whatsoever in Australian history, but I've read up on the history of New Zealand a bit. :hmm:

For some reason I have no interest whatsoever in your posts, but I've read many. :(

:P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Caliga on February 27, 2013, 09:57:11 AM
That describes most posts made by most posters from my standpoint. :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on February 27, 2013, 10:04:13 AM
Quote from: Caliga on February 27, 2013, 09:50:35 AM
For some reason I have no interest whatsoever in Australian history, but I've read up on the history of New Zealand a bit. :hmm:

:hmm: indeed.

I can't say I'm fascinated by it but Masterchef Australia has sparked my interest into the country.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on February 27, 2013, 10:32:22 AM
Quote from: Caliga on February 27, 2013, 09:50:35 AM
For some reason I have no interest whatsoever in Australian history, but I've read up on the history of New Zealand a bit. :hmm:

I dunno - I read the bio of Lady Franklin last year (widow of Sir John Franklin, the famously lost arctic explorer).  I had no idea John Franklin was the one-time governor of Van Diemen's Land (now Tasmania) which was a major penal colony, and that period was extensively covered in the book.  So anyways, like you Australian history was something I knew almost nothing about, but that brief exposure showed me it was pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 27, 2013, 10:42:51 AM
Read "Kelly's Country" by A. Bertram Chandler instead.

Ned Kelly becomes, through a fluke, an independence fighter and leads the revolutionary war against Britain. Australia becomes an Australian-Irish republic with hereditary presidents/dictators and a major (nuclear, IIRC) power in the Pacific, allied to the U.S.. Eventually, the corrupt dictatorship crumbles, though, and they get occupied by allied nations who aim to install a proper democracy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 27, 2013, 10:51:18 AM
Quote from: Caliga on February 27, 2013, 09:50:35 AM
For some reason I have no interest whatsoever in Australian history, but I've read up on the history of New Zealand a bit. :hmm:
New Zealand should be part of Australia, it's more pointless than most small countries.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 27, 2013, 01:51:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 27, 2013, 09:40:07 AM
That Improbable bit seems like an odd subhead.

Not sure why.  The formation of Australia was never a forgone conclusion.  The more likely outcome was each State being independant.  The story of the difference in governance of each State and how they eventually formed one nation is a good story.

Granted it lacks the kind of bloodshed that runs through your history.  But that simply means no ACW (Aussie Civil War) highjacks. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 27, 2013, 01:51:49 PM
New Zealand serves the purpose of maintaining a small pocket of racially pure Englishman boys and girls.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 27, 2013, 01:59:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 27, 2013, 01:51:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 27, 2013, 09:40:07 AM
That Improbable bit seems like an odd subhead.

Not sure why.  The formation of Australia was never a forgone conclusion.  The more likely outcome was each State being independant.  The story of the difference in governance of each State and how they eventually formed one nation is a good story.

Granted it lacks the kind of bloodshed that runs through your history.  But that simply means no ACW (Aussie Civil War) highjacks. :P

Oh gotcha with the bit I bolded. The improbable seemed odd to me as I was like well some sort of nation would have eventually become independent there. Hadn't been thinking about multiples or not. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on February 27, 2013, 08:55:30 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 27, 2013, 01:51:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 27, 2013, 09:40:07 AM
That Improbable bit seems like an odd subhead.

Not sure why.  The formation of Australia was never a forgone conclusion.  The more likely outcome was each State being independant.  The story of the difference in governance of each State and how they eventually formed one nation is a good story.

Granted it lacks the kind of bloodshed that runs through your history.  But that simply means no ACW (Aussie Civil War) highjacks. :P

Well hey there was the Rum Rebellion - Bligh's *other* mutiny.  :D

I mean, that guy has all the luck - most famous single naval mutiny in history under his command - then, he becomes the only guy in history to have an entire continent mutiny against him.  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on February 27, 2013, 09:50:05 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 27, 2013, 10:51:18 AM
Quote from: Caliga on February 27, 2013, 09:50:35 AM
For some reason I have no interest whatsoever in Australian history, but I've read up on the history of New Zealand a bit. :hmm:
New Zealand should be part of Australia, it's more pointless than most small countries.

What a thoroughly stupid thing to say.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on February 27, 2013, 09:52:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 27, 2013, 08:55:30 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 27, 2013, 01:51:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 27, 2013, 09:40:07 AM
That Improbable bit seems like an odd subhead.

Not sure why.  The formation of Australia was never a forgone conclusion.  The more likely outcome was each State being independant.  The story of the difference in governance of each State and how they eventually formed one nation is a good story.

Granted it lacks the kind of bloodshed that runs through your history.  But that simply means no ACW (Aussie Civil War) highjacks. :P

Well hey there was the Rum Rebellion - Bligh's *other* mutiny.  :D

I mean, that guy has all the luck - most famous single naval mutiny in history under his command - then, he becomes the only guy in history to have an entire continent mutiny against him.  :lol:
Bligh was hands down the biggest douche in a nation and profession filled with big douches.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 27, 2013, 10:01:23 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 27, 2013, 09:50:05 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 27, 2013, 10:51:18 AM
Quote from: Caliga on February 27, 2013, 09:50:35 AM
For some reason I have no interest whatsoever in Australian history, but I've read up on the history of New Zealand a bit. :hmm:
New Zealand should be part of Australia, it's more pointless than most small countries.

What a thoroughly stupid thing to say.

LOOK AT THE SOURCE
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 01, 2013, 08:23:46 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 27, 2013, 10:51:18 AM
Quote from: Caliga on February 27, 2013, 09:50:35 AM
For some reason I have no interest whatsoever in Australian history, but I've read up on the history of New Zealand a bit. :hmm:
New Zealand should be part of Australia, it's more pointless than most small countries.
<_<
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 01, 2013, 08:36:51 AM
For some reason Australia's history has produced an disproportionate number of very good novels - English Passengers, Secret River, Oscar & Lucinda amongst others.

Recent reads:

Hyperion by Dan Simmonds, well-written intellligent space opera. 9/10
Little Women - easy read, not really my cup of tea but worth reading because of its cultural impact I guess 7/10

Currently reading Devil All the Time by Donald Ray Pollock. Quite a contrast with Little Women. In amongst the trailer trash of mid 20th century Ohio. Brilliant prose, beautifully paced, disturbing in places. Looking like a very rare 10/10.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 01, 2013, 08:46:07 AM
Just started Hyperion. Never really read much sci fi so it should be interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 01, 2013, 09:15:55 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 27, 2013, 01:51:49 PM
New Zealand serves the purpose of maintaining a small pocket of racially pure Englishman boys and girls.
What the hell kind of bullshit is this?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on March 01, 2013, 09:22:23 AM
Quote from: Gups on March 01, 2013, 08:36:51 AM
For some reason Australia's history has produced an disproportionate number of very good novels - English Passengers, Secret River, Oscar & Lucinda amongst others.

Recent reads:

Hyperion by Dan Simmonds, well-written intellligent space opera. 9/10
Little Women - easy read, not really my cup of tea but worth reading because of its cultural impact I guess 7/10

Currently reading Devil All the Time by Donald Ray Pollock. Quite a contrast with Little Women. In amongst the trailer trash of mid 20th century Ohio. Brilliant prose, beautifully paced, disturbing in places. Looking like a very rare 10/10.

Pollock is great. Reminds me very much of an even harder-edged Joe Lansdale. 

You'd probably like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fine_Dark_Line
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2013, 04:47:21 PM
Picked up "Invisible Armies" by Max Boot.  You've probably all heard of it; it's a history of guerrilla warfare.  Also picked up "The Birth of the West" by Paul Collins, a history of the Dark Ages centered on France, Spain, and Rome.  While I was browsing I realized I knew next to nothing about the Dark Ages.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 02, 2013, 04:50:31 PM
Finished a book on Marlborough as military commander. Characters like Bishop Mew and Captain Blackadder made it hard to take it seriously.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on March 02, 2013, 05:41:20 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 01, 2013, 09:22:23 AM
Quote from: Gups on March 01, 2013, 08:36:51 AM
For some reason Australia's history has produced an disproportionate number of very good novels - English Passengers, Secret River, Oscar & Lucinda amongst others.

Recent reads:

Hyperion by Dan Simmonds, well-written intellligent space opera. 9/10
Little Women - easy read, not really my cup of tea but worth reading because of its cultural impact I guess 7/10

Currently reading Devil All the Time by Donald Ray Pollock. Quite a contrast with Little Women. In amongst the trailer trash of mid 20th century Ohio. Brilliant prose, beautifully paced, disturbing in places. Looking like a very rare 10/10.

Pollock is great. Reminds me very much of an even harder-edged Joe Lansdale. 

You'd probably like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fine_Dark_Line
Jim Thompson.  Donald Westlake.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 02, 2013, 05:44:44 PM
Realised I knew nothing about the HYW after watching some of the BBC4 documentaries on it. So I bought the first volume of Jonathan Sumption's 5 volume history. Just got half way through (Sluys) and the pace is picking up admirably now that we're in the war itself, it's very detailed and you need some broad knowledge of the period before reading it. It is very engaging though.

I also love that Sumption wrote it (and the next two) while a QC and is writing volume 4 while sitting in the Supreme Court. It's an extraordinary model of passion and dedication which I like a lot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 02, 2013, 05:46:49 PM
Tuchman's A Distant Mirror will give you a Coucy centered slice of the HYW.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on March 02, 2013, 05:51:04 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 02, 2013, 05:44:44 PM
Realised I knew nothing about the HYW after watching some of the BBC4 documentaries on it. So I bought the first volume of Jonathan Sumption's 5 volume history. Just got half way through (Sluys) and the pace is picking up admirably now that we're in the war itself, it's very detailed and you need some broad knowledge of the period before reading it. It is very engaging though.

I also love that Sumption wrote it (and the next two) while a QC and is writing volume 4 while sitting in the Supreme Court. It's an extraordinary model of passion and dedication which I like a lot.

It's you in a quarter century, isn't it ?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on March 02, 2013, 06:03:07 PM
I recently finished the five books in Ian Hamilton's Ava Lee series (#6 is out next year).

Hot lesbian Chinese-Canadian OL-style forensic accountant from a rich family and trained in a secret and lethal ancient Chinese martial art collects debts across the world from shady people with the help of other shady people.

I obviously liked the books since I read all five. At first I got the feeling that the title character is the author's fantasy girl and that does seem a little off, but the characters are good (including Ava herself once you get by the check-box list), the plotting is tight, and the locations are worthwhile too. The bits he gets into re: triads and various locations (including restaurants) seem authentic enough to me as well.

I might do a more full review on my blog if I can be bothered.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 02, 2013, 07:46:51 PM
Quote from: mongers on March 02, 2013, 05:51:04 PM
It's you in a quarter century, isn't it ?
Lord no, I've no dedication or passion whatsoever. And I'm nowhere near brainy enough :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on March 04, 2013, 08:24:24 AM
Quote from: The Brain on March 02, 2013, 04:50:31 PM
Finished a book on Marlborough as military commander. Characters like Bishop Mew and Captain Blackadder made it hard to take it seriously.

Was that the one by Charles Spencer? (Yes, that Charles Spencer of best-place-to-divorce-shopping and sister fame...)

Anyway, you'd best avoid Peter Hart's books on the Somme and Passchendaele then; one of the "Tommies" whose writings are quoted are those of a Lieutenant Robert Blackadder of the Royal Garrison Artillery. :P

Good books though; I'd recommend them along with his "1918: A very British Victory"* if I wasn't certain that they already had been.

*Despite the unfortunately jingoistic title.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 04, 2013, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 27, 2013, 10:51:18 AM
Quote from: Caliga on February 27, 2013, 09:50:35 AM
For some reason I have no interest whatsoever in Australian history, but I've read up on the history of New Zealand a bit. :hmm:
New Zealand should be part of Australia, it's more pointless than most small countries.

Why not have them join the UK while you're at it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 04, 2013, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 02, 2013, 05:44:44 PM
Realised I knew nothing about the HYW after watching some of the BBC4 documentaries on it. So I bought the first volume of Jonathan Sumption's 5 volume history. Just got half way through (Sluys) and the pace is picking up admirably now that we're in the war itself, it's very detailed and you need some broad knowledge of the period before reading it. It is very engaging though.

I also love that Sumption wrote it (and the next two) while a QC and is writing volume 4 while sitting in the Supreme Court. It's an extraordinary model of passion and dedication which I like a lot.

I've read the first one. It was OK but a little too obsessed with financial matters. Sumption used to take six months off every year to write it.

Incidentally I heard from another barrister that Sumption's brief fee for Abromovitch was close to £10m and his refreshers were £100K a day. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 04, 2013, 07:42:12 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 04, 2013, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 27, 2013, 10:51:18 AM
Quote from: Caliga on February 27, 2013, 09:50:35 AM
For some reason I have no interest whatsoever in Australian history, but I've read up on the history of New Zealand a bit. :hmm:
New Zealand should be part of Australia, it's more pointless than most small countries.

Why not have them join the UK while you're at it.
I would if I could!  :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on March 11, 2013, 02:29:49 PM
Currently reading Saga: A Novel of Medieval Iceland by Jeff Janoda.

Amazing resemblence to a gangster novel, which strikes me as likely historically accurate ... these Norsemen are as cunning as they are greedy and brutal, plotting with relentless precision to take each other's lands (and even their freedom), leading to murder and revenge, in the absense of any sort of law other than custom upheld by the fear of starting the cycle of murder and revenge going ...

In short, a perfect libertarian society.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 11, 2013, 07:35:11 PM
Finished off George MacDonald Fraser's The Steel Bonnets.  Now off to Crusader Warfare, Volume I by David Nicolle.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 11, 2013, 07:39:56 PM
I need to hack into my 100+ backlog. Damn remainder sales.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on March 12, 2013, 09:54:49 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 11, 2013, 02:29:49 PM
Currently reading Saga: A Novel of Medieval Iceland by Jeff Janoda.

Amazing resemblence to a gangster novel, which strikes me as likely historically accurate ... these Norsemen are as cunning as they are greedy and brutal, plotting with relentless precision to take each other's lands (and even their freedom), leading to murder and revenge, in the absense of any sort of law other than custom upheld by the fear of starting the cycle of murder and revenge going ...

In short, a perfect libertarian society.  :D

That sounds interesting, I am going to pick that up.

Good Find Malthus.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on March 12, 2013, 10:21:22 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 12, 2013, 09:54:49 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 11, 2013, 02:29:49 PM
Currently reading Saga: A Novel of Medieval Iceland by Jeff Janoda.

Amazing resemblence to a gangster novel, which strikes me as likely historically accurate ... these Norsemen are as cunning as they are greedy and brutal, plotting with relentless precision to take each other's lands (and even their freedom), leading to murder and revenge, in the absense of any sort of law other than custom upheld by the fear of starting the cycle of murder and revenge going ...

In short, a perfect libertarian society.  :D

That sounds interesting, I am going to pick that up.

Good Find Malthus.

Thanks!

It is good, if unrelentingly bleak.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 12, 2013, 11:14:57 PM
Anyone read the books; The Battle of Woerth and/or The Battle of Spicheren by GFR Henderson? Comments on them?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on March 12, 2013, 11:21:40 PM
Currently reading Darwinia.  Mediocre.  It does have a dreadnoughts in it which presumably fight (one is described half sunk in the Thames), but that's all it has going for it.  Has sort of a Shadow out of time thing going on.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 16, 2013, 07:08:01 PM
Starting into GFR Henderson's BATTLE OF SPICHEREN. rather enjoying it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 16, 2013, 07:18:01 PM
I fight a battle with my Sphincter every day. The turds win.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 20, 2013, 07:14:22 PM
So far the book is enjoyable. Hendo spent the first 100 pages on the actions of both the French and Prussian armies maneuvering preceding the battle. I like his writing style. He paints a picture of a train wreck you just have to see. France's inability to coordinate forces and utter lack of the proper use of cavalry is stunning. On the Prussian side, the near aggressive recklessness should have spelled a defeat in this battle, if the French were half way competent. I'm at the point of the opening of the battle. One unsupported Prussian division (the 14th) is fixing to attack the Spicheren Heights at the Rotherberg. Whom they think is occupied by a just a rear guard of Frossard's II Corps. The Prussians think they (Frnech II Corps) is withdrawing based on incomplete intel. The Prussains have been aggressive with the employment of their cavalry, however the whole picture has not reached the Prussian division commander. Based on what intell he has, he is moving the division forward to take the Rotherberg.  Oh the silly Prussians are in for a surprise. Frossard's II Corps is all concentrated within 2-3 miles south and west of the heights as a whole. It's 3rd division is 1500 meters south of the heights in the town of Spicheren=Uh oh.

It's breech loading rifle vs breech loading rifle. Muzzle loaded cannon vs breech loaded Krupp cannon. It's French indecisiveness vs. reckless Prussian antics.     
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 21, 2013, 11:03:30 AM
Merry ole England comes through again. Had to order Barry's second volume; FRANCO-PRUSSIAN WAR 1870-1871 VOLUME 2: AFTER SEDAN, THE, from a shop there. The last book I ordered from the UK was Day of Battle by Ascoli back in 2011 and the transaction went well. So, keeping my fingers crossed. Also ordered "Cavalry in the Franco-Prussian War" in a separate order.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: fhdz on March 21, 2013, 11:47:53 AM
As soon as it arrives in the mail, I'm going to start Nassim Nicholas Taleb's "Antifragile". Really looking forward to it. I loved "Fooled By Randomness" and "Black Swan".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 21, 2013, 12:05:33 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 21, 2013, 11:03:30 AM
Merry ole England comes through again. Had to order Barry's second volume; FRANCO-PRUSSIAN WAR 1870-1871 VOLUME 2: AFTER SEDAN, THE, from a shop there. The last book I ordered from the UK was Day of Battle by Ascoli back in 2011 and the transaction went well. So, keeping my fingers crossed. Also ordered "Cavalry in the Franco-Prussian War" in a separate order.

There's nothing we like more than reading about the Krauts and the Frogs beating up on each other.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on March 21, 2013, 01:53:36 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 21, 2013, 11:03:30 AM
Merry ole England comes through again. Had to order Barry's second volume; FRANCO-PRUSSIAN WAR 1870-1871 VOLUME 2: AFTER SEDAN, THE, from a shop there. The last book I ordered from the UK was Day of Battle by Ascoli back in 2011 and the transaction went well. So, keeping my fingers crossed. Also ordered "Cavalry in the Franco-Prussian War" in a separate order.

I shipped thousands of items across the Atlantic, back in the day and contrary to popular myths, the Royal Mail and USPS perform faultlessly.  :bowler:

People in the book trade seem to be just about the most trustworth 'trade' I've encountered, so have confidence.   (famous last words, on my part.  :P )
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 25, 2013, 05:40:28 PM
Battle of Spicheren by Henderson published in 1891

Very good, detailed book on the battle. All aspects are detailed and analyzed very well. The last paragraph of the book sums this battle and the war for that matter, quite well.

Quote.... At no single point did the Prussians show themselves superior in courage or hardihood to their opponents. But they did not, like their opponents rely on natural attributes or martial spirit alone. Officers and men had received the highest training that was possible in peace. It was the training that turned the scale.

On to the Battle of Wörth by Henderson published in 1899.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 25, 2013, 05:55:02 PM
Now I don't know how the numbers stacked up in that particular battle, but one thing you have to keep in mind when reading all that blah blah training stuff is that the Prussians outnumbered the French 2-1 overall.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: fhdz on March 25, 2013, 06:03:34 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on March 21, 2013, 11:47:53 AM
As soon as it arrives in the mail, I'm going to start Nassim Nicholas Taleb's "Antifragile". Really looking forward to it. I loved "Fooled By Randomness" and "Black Swan".

So far, it's brilliant.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 26, 2013, 01:11:38 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 25, 2013, 05:55:02 PM
Now I don't know how the numbers stacked up in that particular battle, but one thing you have to keep in mind when reading all that blah blah training stuff is that the Prussians outnumbered the French 2-1 overall.


Not at Spicheren. The the other way around for most of the battle. If the French leadership were as half as competent as the Prussians, they would have capitalized on numerous Prussian mistakes made in the open month of the campaign.   

That blah, blah training, organization, mobilization, General Staff, etc had a lot to do with it and not just at Spicheren.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on March 28, 2013, 10:33:09 AM
I recently read three (enormous) books of historical fiction by a Japanese writer, Eiji Yoshikawa:

1. Musashi
2. Taiko: An Epic Novel of War and Glory in Feudal Japan
3. The Heike Story: A Modern Translation of the Classic Tale of Love and War

All three were excellent (though my favorite was Taiko; I found the characters in the Heike Story unlikable). Anyone interested in Shogun would love these - they are the 'real deal' as far as Japanese historical fiction goes. Well writen (even though in translation), and great on conveying the atmosphere of feudal Japan.

Though part of the deal as far as Western readers are concerned is that they have a somewhat alien point of view; the notion, expressed so clearly in Musashi, that one could and should achieve a form of enlightenment by going around killing people (albeit with great artistry) is a bit difficult to accept ...  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 28, 2013, 10:45:18 AM
Crazy Japanese. The idea that you can Achieve something by amassing Kills... laughably alien to modern Westerners.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 28, 2013, 10:45:46 AM
Loved Musashi. Great story. I havent gotten around to Taiko yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on March 28, 2013, 10:50:23 AM
Quote from: The Brain on March 28, 2013, 10:45:18 AM
Crazy Japanese. The idea that you can Achieve something by amassing Kills... laughably alien to modern Westerners.

In the West, personal religious enlightenment isn't generally among the things that can be achieved by ammassing kills, no.  :lol: Salvation and remission of sins, perhaps.

Though perhaps the Jesuits ...  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 28, 2013, 10:50:55 AM
I didnt know Phil Sheridan was an observer on the Prussian side.

http://www.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/Sedan.html

QuotePresident Grant invited me to come to see him at Long Branch before I should sail, and during my brief visit there he asked which army I wished to accompany-the German or the French. I told him the German, for the reason that I thought more could be seen with the successful side, and that the indications pointed to the defeat of the French. My choice evidently pleased him greatly, as he had the utmost contempt for Louis Napoleon and had always denounced him r as a usurper and a charlatan. Before we separated, the President gave me the following letter to the representatives of our government abroad, and with it I not only had no trouble in obtaining permission to go with the Germans, but was specially favored by being invited to accompany the headquarters of the King of Prussia:

    "LONG BRANCH, N. J.,

    JULY 26, 1870. :

    " Lieutenant-General P. H. Sheridan, of the United States Army, is authorized to visit Europe, to return at his own pleasure, unless otherwise ordered. He is commended to the good offices of all representatives of this Government whom he may meet abroad.

    "To citizens and representatives of other Governments I introduce General Sheridan as one of the most skilful, brave, and deserving soldiers developed by the great struggle through which the United States Government has just passed. Attention paid him will be duly appreciated by the country he has served so faithfully and efficiently.

    U. S. GRANT.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on March 28, 2013, 10:53:40 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 28, 2013, 10:45:46 AM
Loved Musashi. Great story. I havent gotten around to Taiko yet.

Taiko is great. I actually liked it better than Musashi.

It is the *ultimate* Horatio Alger-style rags to riches story - the lead character goes from itinerant needle-seller, to sandal-wiper, to unquestioned overlord of Japan ...  :lol: All apparently true.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 28, 2013, 10:59:23 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 28, 2013, 10:53:40 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 28, 2013, 10:45:46 AM
Loved Musashi. Great story. I havent gotten around to Taiko yet.

Taiko is great. I actually liked it better than Musashi.

It is the *ultimate* Horatio Alger-style rags to riches story - the lead character goes from itinerant needle-seller, to sandal-wiper, to unquestioned overlord of Japan ...  :lol: All apparently true.

After Barry's Franco Prussian War 1&2, I will put it next on the list. Thanks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on March 28, 2013, 06:44:05 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 28, 2013, 10:33:09 AM
I recently read three (enormous) books of historical fiction by a Japanese writer, Eiji Yoshikawa:

1. Musashi
2. Taiko: An Epic Novel of War and Glory in Feudal Japan
3. The Heike Story: A Modern Translation of the Classic Tale of Love and War

All three were excellent (though my favorite was Taiko; I found the characters in the Heike Story unlikable). Anyone interested in Shogun would love these - they are the 'real deal' as far as Japanese historical fiction goes. Well writen (even though in translation), and great on conveying the atmosphere of feudal Japan.

Though part of the deal as far as Western readers are concerned is that they have a somewhat alien point of view; the notion, expressed so clearly in Musashi, that one could and should achieve a form of enlightenment by going around killing people (albeit with great artistry) is a bit difficult to accept ...  :D

Thanks for the tip. I'll check them out!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 28, 2013, 07:49:30 PM
Speaking of historical fiction...I'm currently reading, and quite enjoying, Colleen McCullough's The First Man in Rome.  Rome is a happening place.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on March 29, 2013, 05:51:35 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 28, 2013, 07:49:30 PM
Speaking of historical fiction...I'm currently reading, and quite enjoying, Colleen McCullough's The First Man in Rome.  Rome is a happening place.
Be warned- the series takes a serious dump on itself after volume 5.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 29, 2013, 11:22:21 AM
Quote from: Scipio on March 29, 2013, 05:51:35 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 28, 2013, 07:49:30 PM
Speaking of historical fiction...I'm currently reading, and quite enjoying, Colleen McCullough's The First Man in Rome.  Rome is a happening place.
Be warned- the series takes a serious dump on itself after volume 5.

My interest is only, admittedly, in Gaius Marius and his travails rather than the Civil War itself.  Caesar is, for me, so interesting from an historical perspective that I see little reason to read about him in novel form.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 01, 2013, 03:39:17 AM
Finished A History Of Ancient Egypt: From The First Farmers To The Great Pyramid, by John Romer. An enjoyable read overall, moves along at a nice pace with bite-sized chapters. What's a bit funny though is the way Romer constantly argues against the Victorians and their ideas about ancient Egypt. How their ideas about states, gods, commerce, conquest etc were wrong when applied to Old Egypt. But Romer's constant comments about the Victorians reveal that he himself is firmly rooted in their frames of reference, which is why he finds it important to discuss how wrong they are. For instance, Romer seems to believe that since Victorians thought that magical thinking was primitive and a bit silly the Egyptians cannot have engaged in magical thinking. Why not instead accept that magical thinking isn't sillier than anything else when it comes to religion and afterlife? This is not uncommon in men of average intelligence: they are completely bound by the shackles they claim so vigorously to shake off.

Also he returns time and again to making the point that we shouldn't overinterpret the existing evidence, yet he himself often state things that, while plausible, cannot be proved by the evidence at hand.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on April 14, 2013, 01:54:25 PM
Any of you read Shattered Sword? Comments?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on April 21, 2013, 12:58:09 PM
So on the recommendation of one or two of you I read World War Z. It was pretty good. Be interesting to see how they turn it into a movie, due to its somewhat unorthodox narrative structure. I guess--based on the preveiws I've seen--they're gonna focus on the American guy, Todd, the battle of Yonkers, the retreat into the mountains, the battle there and the sweep back east, only paying lip service to the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on April 21, 2013, 05:30:01 PM
Nobody cares about the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on April 22, 2013, 09:43:44 AM
& WWZ movies barely going to be about the book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 22, 2013, 09:59:45 AM
fhdz and others mentioned Antifragile the other week;  is it a continuation and should Black Swan be read first, or is Antifragile a work on its own?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on April 27, 2013, 03:00:45 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 09, 2013, 03:04:59 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 09, 2013, 02:48:43 AM
I've read mixed reviews on that.  One that it's interesting and gives a good idea what kind of man Stalin was, and others that say it focuses too much on gossip and not real history.  I've been on the fence on that one.
I don't like that dichotomy.

Court of the Red Tsar is an attempt at giving a biography of Stalin and the other leading Bolsheviks from, roughly, 1930 until the end of his life. It doesn't seem gossipy, I've only got the paperback version but there's a huge number of thanks for interviews with children of the Politburo and others, so it seems to be based on lots of original research.

But his goal isn't to tell you a great deal about the Ukrainian famine, or any of the other policies. Rather he's interested in how Stalin and those around him manage it. How they receive the information, or build the conspiracies, or denounce themselves or one another and then how they reach decisions that lead to the implementation of those policies.

With that you have the life of the magnates which moves from being pretty spartan but collegiate to being rather grim and terrifying. They'd get the call out to Stalin's dacha where he'd make them drink and play jokes on each other, or slow dance with one another, while he was actually drinking disguised water, weak tea or watered down wine.

I think it's no good if you want a history of the Stalinist period but is perhaps better if you want a sense of the mentality of the era. If you want to know about the Ukrainian famine or the purges then it'd be better getting a book about them, rather than this.

QuoteI've been thinking of reading that one day, I assume one should read Young Stalin if chronology is a concern.
Well I've just read Court of the Red Tsar which is 1930-53. Young Stalin's 1878-1917. But chronology's not a concern.

I got off the fence and picked up the Red Tsar.  Now I can't put it down.  Only gripe is that it starts in the early thirties when he's already first amongst equals and on his way to become totalitarian dictator.  I'm curious about his struggles with Trotsky after Lenin's death.  I suppose that's in his other book, Young Stalin.  Stalin is not at all what I expected.  I suppose a lot of Stalin's image in the West was propagated by Trotsky and his followers.  He's not the vulgar, grim bandit-turned-bureaucrat that he's often depicted as.  While bandit and bureaucrat are there, he's surprisingly cultured, very well read with an appreciation for poetry and literature.  He is also quite charming which surprised me.  He's reminds of one of those ruthless centralizing late medieval monarchs or a mafioso head.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on April 27, 2013, 08:12:00 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 22, 2013, 09:43:44 AM
& WWZ movies barely going to be about the book.

Yeah, what I figured.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 27, 2013, 08:22:50 AM
Reading Samurai: The Japanese Warrior's [Unofficial] Manual (http://www.amazon.com/Samurai-Japanese-Warriors-Unofficial-Manual/dp/0500251886/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367068783&sr=8-1&keywords=samurai+the+unofficial+manual). Not bad, and slightly tongue in cheek (masquerading as a manual written in 1615), but not quite as good as its Legionnaire counterpart which remains my favorite of the series.

I haven't read the Gladiator entry in the series yet (written by the same guy as the Legionnaire manual and the pretty good "Ancient Rome on 5 Denarii a Day").
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on April 27, 2013, 09:14:15 AM
Who has the better book about the Russian Revolution - Richard Pipes or Orlando Figes?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: fhdz on April 29, 2013, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 22, 2013, 09:59:45 AM
fhdz and others mentioned Antifragile the other week;  is it a continuation and should Black Swan be read first, or is Antifragile a work on its own?

You definitely can read it on its own.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 30, 2013, 07:32:48 AM
Reading Vanished Kingdoms: The History of Half-Forgotten Europe by Norman Davies. So far, it's very, very good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on April 30, 2013, 07:36:32 AM
I had wanted to read it but I wasn't sure how much I'd like him compiling chapters on a bunch of different states all drawn together only because they no longer exist.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 30, 2013, 07:42:57 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 07:36:32 AM
I had wanted to read it but I wasn't sure how much I'd like him compiling chapters on a bunch of different states all drawn together only because they no longer exist.

The theme is on the nature of historical memory; the examples are entertaining in and of themselves, but they are not of course in any way comprehensive.

I found the chapter on "Galicia" particularly interesting, as it is the country from which both my mother's ancestors and my wife's came from - yet I'd barely heard of it; it's vanished underneath Poland and Ukraine, but fairly recently (it died at the end of WW1 and its population was massacred and the remaints scattered to the winds in WW2).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on April 30, 2013, 07:47:59 AM
Oh thanks for that. Definitely my cup of tea then.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on April 30, 2013, 08:42:30 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 30, 2013, 07:32:48 AM
Reading Vanished Kingdoms: The History of Half-Forgotten Europe by Norman Davies. So far, it's very, very good.

I was thinking of picking that up.  Thanks for the recommendation.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on May 01, 2013, 09:44:10 AM
Once again, Malthus pulls out a solid.

35$ for an Ebook, I don't think soooooo, no.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 01, 2013, 10:57:04 AM
Same author put out another book, The History of Europe, several years ago that I liked. This looks good, too, but alas, I'm on a budget now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: fhdz on May 01, 2013, 11:06:08 AM
Quote from: fahdiz on April 29, 2013, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 22, 2013, 09:59:45 AM
fhdz and others mentioned Antifragile the other week;  is it a continuation and should Black Swan be read first, or is Antifragile a work on its own?

You definitely can read it on its own.

Seedy, you'll especially like the folks he chooses to froth at. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 11:08:46 AM
Currently reading amongst other things "Through the Eye of the Needle"

http://www.amazon.com/dp/069115290X

Its a detailed look at the formation of the Latin Church 350-550 with particular emphasis on the role of elite in society.  Some interesting insights are the transformation of the early Church under Constantine as the ministry of social services for the poor funded by grants from the Emperor to a self funded organization through gifts from wealthy donors to elites within the Church which in turn gave those Elites significant power and influence over the formation of Church doctrine.  The story of Ambrose is particularly interesting from this perspective.

I wish he would have spent more time with the conflict with the Eastern Church which also had a significant influence on the formation on the Latin Church but I suppose that would have required that the book be written in multiple volumes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 12:09:54 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 01, 2013, 09:44:10 AM
Once again, Malthus pulls out a solid.

35$ for an Ebook, I don't think soooooo, no.

That's absurd - the book in book form (paperback) costs $22.  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on May 01, 2013, 12:14:12 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2013, 08:42:30 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 30, 2013, 07:32:48 AM
Reading Vanished Kingdoms: The History of Half-Forgotten Europe by Norman Davies. So far, it's very, very good.

I was thinking of picking that up.  Thanks for the recommendation.

I got bored halfway through.  Your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on May 01, 2013, 12:14:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 12:09:54 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 01, 2013, 09:44:10 AM
Once again, Malthus pulls out a solid.

35$ for an Ebook, I don't think soooooo, no.

That's absurd - the book in book form (paperback) costs $22.  :lol:

It's only $19 at US Amazon.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on May 01, 2013, 12:40:31 PM
Quote from: ulmont on May 01, 2013, 12:14:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 12:09:54 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 01, 2013, 09:44:10 AM
Once again, Malthus pulls out a solid.

35$ for an Ebook, I don't think soooooo, no.

That's absurd - the book in book form (paperback) costs $22.  :lol:

It's only $19 at US Amazon.

Kindle edition is 15$ on Amazon Canada.

Kobobooks was the 35$ one.

:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 09, 2013, 11:22:19 PM
Timmy has been just loving a big book of classic fairy tales I dug out the other day.  When we were playing outside he started randomly yelling "not by the hair on my chinny-chin-chin!"  And tonight he wanted me to read "The Three Bears".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 10, 2013, 11:41:15 AM
I was thinking about picking this one up

Austerity: The History of a Dangerous Idea by Mark Blyth

http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Politics/?view=usa&ci=9780199828302

JR or others any comments?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 10, 2013, 12:02:00 PM
Finished Ender's Game. Just realized that my previous book was World War Z. And what do both these books have in common...hmmmm :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 10, 2013, 12:20:17 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 11:08:46 AM
Currently reading amongst other things "Through the Eye of the Needle"

http://www.amazon.com/dp/069115290X

A new Peter Brown book!
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 10, 2013, 01:12:24 PM
Glad to be of assistance.  What do you think about Blyth's book?  See my post a couple posts up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 10, 2013, 01:55:01 PM
Haven't read the Blyth book.  There have been a number recently on the subject.  Lately I keep up by following the blogs and reading interesting papers. 
Last econ related book I read was this: http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Mechanical-Markets-Asset-Swings/dp/0691145776/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1368211913&sr=1-1
Interesting but definitely more on the theory side.
I recently took out a book on Market Monetarism through the kindle lending library but I am just a few pages in.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 11, 2013, 06:52:11 AM
I've started reading the (ebook) version of the Perry Rhodan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Rhodan) series.

I grew up with the audio play versions of the first 19 or so episodes (audio plays on tape for kids and young teens were a very popular medium for German boys and girls in the 80s), but reading the series always gave me a serious case of archive panic: since 1961, there's been a new 60 page episode every week. So they're at episode 2698 at the moment.

The concept:

QuoteThe story line starts in 1971 with the first manned moon landing by U.S. Space Force Major Perry Rhodan and his crew, who discover a marooned extraterrestrial space ship. Appropriating the alien technology, they proceed to unify Terra and carve out a place for humanity in the galaxy and the cosmos. (The concepts for two of the technical accomplishments that enable them to do so—positronic brains and starship drives for near-instantaneous hyperspatial translation—are direct adoptions from Isaac Asimov's science fiction universe.)

As the series progresses major characters, including the title character, are granted relative immortality. It is Relative in the sense that they are immune to age and disease, but could suffer a violent death. The story continues over the course of millennia, including flashbacks thousands and even millions of years into the past, and the scope widens to encompass other galaxies, extremely remote parts of space, parallel universes and weirder cosmic structures, time travel, paranormal powers, weird/cute/aggressive aliens and bodyless entities (some with sheer god-like powers).

I've always been fascinated by this rather elaborate history the series created for itself, covering 3000 years by now, not to mention that it reflects 50 years of development in the field of science-fiction (even though the original series still retains a certain "retro" style, from what I hear.

There's also a fan published "time lapse" series which condenses the plot of the weekly editions into the bare facts - it stands at 4000+ pages so far.

Anyways, I'll see how far I get before I get bored/collapse/skip large sections. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 11, 2013, 08:18:36 AM
What the fuck, America? How the hell can almost half of you give Mein Kampf 5 stars? :bleeding:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2Fmeinkampfamazon_zps725ce6e3.jpg&hash=4dbd51d23458418a6a256f3079e77e8529dd527f)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 11, 2013, 08:56:07 AM
Even if you were a Jew hating war monger, and who among us isn't, Mein Kampf is unreadable rubbish.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 11, 2013, 10:40:19 AM
I want to visit Amazon's Adolf Hitler page now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2013, 11:59:51 AM
Quote from: fahdiz on May 01, 2013, 11:06:08 AM
Quote from: fahdiz on April 29, 2013, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 22, 2013, 09:59:45 AM
fhdz and others mentioned Antifragile the other week;  is it a continuation and should Black Swan be read first, or is Antifragile a work on its own?

You definitely can read it on its own.

Seedy, you'll especially like the folks he chooses to froth at. :D

I can well imagine.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 11, 2013, 07:31:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2013, 10:40:19 AM
I want to visit Amazon's Adolf Hitler page now.
I want Sav to write a sequel with Himmler and Churchhil played by lesbian lemurs.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 11, 2013, 07:54:41 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 11, 2013, 07:31:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2013, 10:40:19 AM
I want to visit Amazon's Adolf Hitler page now.
I want Sav to write a sequel with Himmler and Churchhil played by lesbian lemurs.

I assume charliebear has nagged him to death
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 12, 2013, 05:30:46 PM
Half-way through Michael Chabon's Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay - so far I love it.

Also the Rivers of London, which is good fun.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 14, 2013, 07:39:24 PM
I love Dan Brown review season:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/shortcuts/2013/may/14/dan-browns-inferno-critics
'As a stylist Brown gets better and better: where once he was abysmal he is now just very poor.'
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 14, 2013, 08:54:51 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 14, 2013, 07:39:24 PM
I love Dan Brown review season:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/shortcuts/2013/may/14/dan-browns-inferno-critics
'As a stylist Brown gets better and better: where once he was abysmal he is now just very poor.'

My favorite :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/10049454/Dont-make-fun-of-renowned-Dan-Brown.html?fb
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 14, 2013, 10:17:03 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 14, 2013, 07:39:24 PM
I love Dan Brown review season:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/shortcuts/2013/may/14/dan-browns-inferno-critics
'As a stylist Brown gets better and better: where once he was abysmal he is now just very poor.'

Yes!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 15, 2013, 07:11:50 AM
If you can't write books, review them.

I'm convinced most reviewers are just jealous of his success. The old 'i can do better" syndrome. Can they? Do it, then.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 15, 2013, 07:34:48 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 15, 2013, 07:11:50 AM
If you can't write books, review them.

I'm convinced most reviewers are just jealous of his success. The old 'i can do better" syndrome. Can they? Do it, then.

Well yes, I think there could be some element of bitterness that such a poor writer has managed to sell really well.  Probably not that different from Stephanie Meyer or E. L. James. Probably a big reason these reviewers can't do better is that they wouldn't want to debase themselves for the period of time that it would take to right such a novel.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 15, 2013, 07:54:08 AM
Stephen King was the brunt of all sorts of jealous criticism as well in his prime, to the point that it started to affect his output (there was a time in the mid 90s, he tried to be more literary.

I think Dan Brown is a shill too, but hey, it works for him. He'd be stupid to attempt to write stuff for critics, who after all get their books for free.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 15, 2013, 07:58:04 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 15, 2013, 07:54:08 AM
I think Dan Brown is a shill too, but hey, it works for him. He'd be stupid to attempt to write stuff for critics, who after all get their books for free.

Agreed but I don't see why critics shouldn't still put out how dreadful his works are. :huh:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 15, 2013, 08:11:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 15, 2013, 07:58:04 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 15, 2013, 07:54:08 AM
I think Dan Brown is a shill too, but hey, it works for him. He'd be stupid to attempt to write stuff for critics, who after all get their books for free.

Agreed but I don't see why critics shouldn't still put out how dreadful his works are. :huh:

Those who can't write criticize those who can.  News at 11.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 15, 2013, 08:30:41 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 15, 2013, 08:11:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 15, 2013, 07:58:04 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 15, 2013, 07:54:08 AM
I think Dan Brown is a shill too, but hey, it works for him. He'd be stupid to attempt to write stuff for critics, who after all get their books for free.

Agreed but I don't see why critics shouldn't still put out how dreadful his works are. :huh:

Those who can't write criticize those who can.  News at 11.

So the contention is that all of these critics, who make a living writing criticism - can't write as well as Dan Brown or the other two luminaries I listed?

I would think these critics making sure to call out each work of Dan Brown's akin to you calling me out on my liberal use of the term champagne - so that no one gets confused at the end of the day about what is right and what is wrong. ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on May 15, 2013, 08:33:42 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 30, 2013, 07:32:48 AM
Reading Vanished Kingdoms: The History of Half-Forgotten Europe by Norman Davies. So far, it's very, very good.

Started this book yesterday. His prologue did nothing for me. Filler dribble about his philosophy & academia :bleeding:

Chapter on the Visigoths is interesting tho, I had never heard of that Kingdom of Tolosa
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 15, 2013, 10:02:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 15, 2013, 08:30:41 AM
So the contention is that all of these critics, who make a living writing criticism - can't write as well as Dan Brown or the other two luminaries I listed?



If the critics knew how to do what Dan Brown can do then presumably, if we are to assume they are rational actors, they would do it given the difference in pay between what Dan Brown does and what they do.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 15, 2013, 10:08:58 PM
Some people have principles. Also they may not have a knack for writing trashy novels.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 15, 2013, 10:19:09 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 15, 2013, 10:08:58 PM
Some people have principles. Also they may not have a knack for writing trashy novels.

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 07:11:13 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 15, 2013, 10:08:58 PM
Some people have principles. Also they may not have a knack for writing trashy novels.

That's just it though. There are a million bad authors. Dan Brown is very good at what he does.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 16, 2013, 07:56:04 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 07:11:13 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 15, 2013, 10:08:58 PM
Some people have principles. Also they may not have a knack for writing trashy novels.

That's just it though. There are a million bad authors. Dan Brown is very good at what he does.

Alright, he's the king of wine coolers. Doesn't mean the critics have to be happy about that. :mellow:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 08:43:04 AM
No, they don't have to like it. And they can criticize the shit out of it on its lack of merit. But when I see a review that says something like, whatever it was up a few threads, you know the critics are just taking the piss to be mean.
I remember a long time ago in the late 80s there was a review in Spin about a new Paul McCartney record, and the reviewer said "They shot the wrong Beatle." Or a review of a Yes album that just went "Just say No." The trouble with these is that you know the critics are going in with their punny comments before even listening or reading the subject of their review--if they even bother.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 16, 2013, 08:54:57 AM
Well yes and they are enjoyable precisely because you know they are going to deliver one's own viewpoint going in. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 16, 2013, 08:55:34 AM
Next you'll be demanding people making nice comments about Michael Moore films!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 12:59:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 16, 2013, 08:55:34 AM
Next you'll be demanding people making nice comments about Michael Moore films!

my reviews of his films are generally positive...even before I see them. :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 16, 2013, 01:16:38 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 07:11:13 AM
Dan Brown is very good at what he does.

But what exactly is it that he does so well?
The problem with the write crap and make millions strategy is figuring out what it is that Dan Brown does differently from the equally lousy writers who don't sell millions of books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 16, 2013, 02:19:17 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 16, 2013, 01:16:38 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 07:11:13 AM
Dan Brown is very good at what he does.

But what exactly is it that he does so well?
The problem with the write crap and make millions strategy is figuring out what it is that Dan Brown does differently from the equally lousy writers who don't sell millions of books.

Yes exactly.  And if the vaunted literary critics could figure that out then presumably they would do it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 02:46:04 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 16, 2013, 01:16:38 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 07:11:13 AM
Dan Brown is very good at what he does.

But what exactly is it that he does so well?
The problem with the write crap and make millions strategy is figuring out what it is that Dan Brown does differently from the equally lousy writers who don't sell millions of books.

I don't know. I've never read the bloke. Critics turned me off him. :D

Actually, I did read that big one, what was it called, Da Vinci Code. I can't tell you what he does that the other writers whose books I haven't read do, but it's easy to see why it was a best seller.

Taut, tightly written. Elements of suspense. A mystery. Lots of puzzle solving, and riddles. Oh and a conspiracy which if you don't know any history, might even be true. Hey, maybe Jesus was married to Mary and had a child and the Catholic Church, those bastards, covered it up.

Very easy to read. A poor man's Focault's Pendulum.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 16, 2013, 02:49:42 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 02:46:04 PM
Very easy to read. A poor man's Focault's Pendulum.

I loved that book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 16, 2013, 02:50:56 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 02:46:04 PM
Taut, tightly written. Elements of suspense. A mystery. Lots of puzzle solving, and riddles. Oh and a conspiracy which if you don't know any history, might even be true. Hey, maybe Jesus was married to Mary and had a child and the Catholic Church, those bastards, covered it up.

Very easy to read. A poor man's Focault's Pendulum.

I thought it was if you took Tom Clancy, somehow downgraded that and then throughthrew in some psuedo-religious stuff. :x

*uck, writing about Da Vinci Code downgraded my writing abilities...-_-
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on May 16, 2013, 02:59:54 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 16, 2013, 02:50:56 PM
I thought it was if you took Tom Clancy, somehow downgraded that

Easily done.  Just get a ghostwriter* and then slap Clancy's name on top.  You could call it something like "Tom Clancy's Net Force."

*In this particular example, with the ghostwriter being Steve Perry, it may have improved the writing, but I'm not going to read it to find out.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 16, 2013, 03:11:00 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 16, 2013, 01:16:38 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 07:11:13 AM
Dan Brown is very good at what he does.

But what exactly is it that he does so well?
The problem with the write crap and make millions strategy is figuring out what it is that Dan Brown does differently from the equally lousy writers who don't sell millions of books.

I'd like to know why many so many people who can write better then he does don't sell millions of books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 16, 2013, 04:09:45 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 02:46:04 PM
Taut, tightly written. Elements of suspense. A mystery. Lots of puzzle solving, and riddles. Oh and a conspiracy which if you don't know any history, might even be true.

Fair enough.
But aren't there an awful lot of books that fit that very same formula?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 16, 2013, 04:12:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 16, 2013, 03:11:00 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 16, 2013, 01:16:38 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 07:11:13 AM
Dan Brown is very good at what he does.

But what exactly is it that he does so well?
The problem with the write crap and make millions strategy is figuring out what it is that Dan Brown does differently from the equally lousy writers who don't sell millions of books.

I'd like to know why many so many people who can write better then he does don't sell millions of books.

Because most people don't really gravitate towards well written books. There's a big market out there for trash.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 04:39:09 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 16, 2013, 04:09:45 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 02:46:04 PM
Taut, tightly written. Elements of suspense. A mystery. Lots of puzzle solving, and riddles. Oh and a conspiracy which if you don't know any history, might even be true.

Fair enough.
But aren't there an awful lot of books that fit that very same formula?

Maybe. I think that book came out at the right time, is all. His previous books went mostly unnoticed until then. Da Vinci Code got a lot of press, the scandalous conspiracy really helped. The Catholic Church ranting and raving also helped. It may very well be, if he wrote it today, it would have slipped un noticed. Im not defending him. I think he's shit. But he's good at writing shit.

It's the same with pop music. A lot of shit. A small percentage of it sells really well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 16, 2013, 04:42:33 PM
You all need to read the Left Behind books. All of them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 16, 2013, 04:47:10 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 16, 2013, 04:42:33 PM
You all need to read the Left Behind books. All of them.

You are full of hate
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 16, 2013, 05:23:21 PM
Evil is my middle name.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 16, 2013, 04:42:33 PM
You all need to read the Left Behind books. All of them.

How many were there in all? I know my ex read a couple of them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 16, 2013, 06:14:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 16, 2013, 05:23:21 PM
Evil is my middle name.

Ed E Anger
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 16, 2013, 06:20:58 PM
e e anger
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 16, 2013, 06:43:52 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 16, 2013, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 16, 2013, 04:42:33 PM
You all need to read the Left Behind books. All of them.

How many were there in all? I know my ex read a couple of them.

16? It is around that.

Not counting the spinoffs and stuff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on May 16, 2013, 06:49:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 16, 2013, 06:20:58 PM
e e anger

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: fhdz on May 16, 2013, 07:59:32 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 16, 2013, 06:20:58 PM
e e anger

clearly has no problem cumming; thus the army of children
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 17, 2013, 02:09:06 PM
Reading Crucible of War by Fred Anderson.  Why can't people on the frontier be nice to each other?  All this scalping business seems so unnecessary.

On audiobook : Peter the Great by Robert Massie has me convinced that Charles was a madman who would have gotten along well with the likes of Teddy Roosevelt.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 17, 2013, 02:14:19 PM
Eleanor. :contract:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 17, 2013, 02:16:05 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 17, 2013, 02:09:06 PM
Reading Crucible of War by Fred Anderson.  Why can't people on the frontier be nice to each other?  All this scalping business seems so unnecessary.

On audiobook : Peter the Great by Robert Massie has me convinced that Charles was a madman who would have gotten along well with the likes of Teddy Roosevelt.

I get the impression that European monarchs of the time went through positive effort to be as crazy as possible.

My favorite was Fredrick the Great's daddy, with his army of giants - every time he felt sad, he'd have his beloved giants stomp through his bedroom. CC would have been a general!  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 17, 2013, 02:16:38 PM
Gi-ants? :w00t:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 17, 2013, 02:30:38 PM
I miss the good old days  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 17, 2013, 02:31:46 PM
Picked up German Assault Troops of World War I. :w00t:

Shut up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2013, 12:12:00 AM
 :hmm: The detritus looked to be no more than a day old, the fruits and green leaved vegetables only now beginning to rot in the afternoon heat.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fgicp0MC.jpg&hash=e7b7adbef620b1c5cd3484a2d9224ecc5852c828)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 18, 2013, 12:51:49 AM
I'll play. :)

His heart was beating faster as they came within ten feet of each other.

:hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 18, 2013, 01:08:55 AM
"Good hunting," said Kaa, grimly, and glided away to the west wall.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 18, 2013, 01:13:41 AM
Page 45 actually is a picture page.  The text is "The clearings in the center of the photo are the location of Oros' cabin at Hutisolga."

The book was "Descent into madness: The Diary of a killer" about Yukon wilderness man Michael Oros, and his ultimate murder of RCMP member Michael Buday.

Not sure how that describes my sex life... :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 18, 2013, 01:18:06 AM
I picked the closest English language book.

"Now the right style for me here was to keep low like in frog-dancing to protect litso and glazzies, and this I did, brothers, so that poor old Dim was a malenky bit surprised, him being accustomed to the straight face-on lash lash lash."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 18, 2013, 01:21:22 AM
Mind you the next book was "The glory days were about to return".  From Red Dwarf novelization "Better Than Life".  :cool:

Which decribed Holly's returned intellect - until he realized he had an estimatec run time remaining of 30 seconds. :ph34r:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 18, 2013, 01:24:37 AM
Keep going...

The next book is another Red Dwarf novellization (gee I wonder why they'd be next to each other):

"They thrashed on through the woods".

as the crew of Red Dwarf muddle on through a backwards world.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 18, 2013, 01:29:00 AM
And finally... from "Hitler's Empire: Now the Nazis Ruled Europe" the line is "Nazi lawyers were deeply suspicious of the whole idea of a universal international law premised upon the formal equality of sovereign states".

Which at this point makes me thing Timmy's post is utter BS.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 18, 2013, 02:28:27 AM
Quote from: Barrister on May 18, 2013, 01:29:00 AM
And finally... from "Hitler's Empire: Now the Nazis Ruled Europe" the line is "Nazi lawyers were deeply suspicious of the whole idea of a universal international law premised upon the formal equality of sovereign states".

Which at this point makes me thing Timmy's post is utter BS.

Took you 4 books longer than everyone else. :console:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 18, 2013, 07:43:12 AM
When William Jefferson Blythe III came into the world on 19 August 1946 in the little town of Hope, Arkansas, exactly three months had passed since the death of his father in a traffic accident.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on May 18, 2013, 08:59:10 AM
I should like to begin by setting to one side two questions which are not before this Court.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 18, 2013, 09:22:32 AM
"Sunrise Villa Apartments
1614 Swallow Crest Dr
Edgewood--------410 679-0400"
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 18, 2013, 10:06:18 AM
"The multitude," Cavendish says, "is always desirous of a change."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on May 18, 2013, 02:57:56 PM
It was proper that at table four the mid-ranking functionary from the Cinnabar Navy Office restore balance by being seated higher than Markos; but no member of the delegations for whom the banquet was arranged should have been so low.

-
---
-----

Perhaps I need to reshelve "With the Lightnings" by David Drake further away from my computer desk. :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 18, 2013, 03:36:14 PM
Stalin wrote to Molotov about "inspecting and punching people in the face" and openly told officials he would "smash their bones".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 18, 2013, 03:44:16 PM
BDSM?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on May 18, 2013, 05:37:13 PM
"And such a good looking one, too."

:hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: fhdz on May 18, 2013, 05:42:37 PM
"Join the connectors to the supply tubes with slip-fitting copper repair couplings."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 18, 2013, 07:42:42 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on May 18, 2013, 05:42:37 PM
"Join the connectors to the supply tubes with slip-fitting copper repair couplings."

Hott
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2013, 09:34:36 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on May 18, 2013, 05:42:37 PM
"Join the connectors to the supply tubes with slip-fitting copper repair couplings."
You slut!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: frunk on May 18, 2013, 09:39:37 PM
Large, heavy and difficult to move around with, antitank rifles could be used only by positioned troops.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: fhdz on May 18, 2013, 10:09:54 PM
Quote from: frunk on May 18, 2013, 09:39:37 PM
Large, heavy and difficult to move around with, antitank rifles could be used only by positioned troops.

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: fhdz on May 18, 2013, 10:10:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 18, 2013, 07:42:42 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on May 18, 2013, 05:42:37 PM
"Join the connectors to the supply tubes with slip-fitting copper repair couplings."

Hott

Plumbing = sexy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 19, 2013, 07:39:47 PM
'Our experience of World Wars is in a sense exhaustive, but our experience of how they get started is confined to just the two models - Sarajevo and Munich, critical accident and unappeasable psychosis.'

Turning to the nearest fiction book wasn't much help either: '"Yes, my dear," replied Mrs Allen, with perfect serenity, "it is very uncomfortable indeed."'

:ph34r:

Edit: And the nearest book of verse is Larkin - so I won't even look :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 19, 2013, 07:44:09 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 19, 2013, 07:39:47 PM
Turning to the nearest fiction book wasn't much help either: '"Yes, my dear," replied Mrs Allen, with perfect serenity, "it is very uncomfortable indeed."'

:lol:

Also, I've been reading that on the subway ride to work.. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 19, 2013, 07:48:37 PM
I acutally chose between two books.  One was on Stalin and the other on biology.  I skipped the one going on about nucleotides.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 19, 2013, 07:50:40 PM
I was afraid to look up page 45 of street without joy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 19, 2013, 08:07:53 PM
I just noticed Rick Akinson finally finished the Liberation trilogy with the Guns at Last Light.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2013, 08:23:18 PM
Traipsed over to the local mega Barnes & Nobles to see if I could ensnare some hapless lovely in the "Teen Paranormal Romance" section with my ubergoatee, but since I was even creeping myself out, I picked up Tough Without a Gun: The Life and Extraordinary Afterlife of Humphrey Bogart since it's now in paperback.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 21, 2013, 08:24:18 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2013, 08:23:18 PM
Traipsed over to the local mega Barnes & Nobles to see if I could ensnare some hapless lovely in the "Teen Paranormal Romance" section with my ubergoatee, but since I was even creeping myself out, I picked up Tough Without a Gun: The Life and Extraordinary Afterlife of Humphrey Bogart since it's now in paperback.

I'm disappointed in you.  :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2013, 08:26:32 PM
It was a barren and desolate target-free wasteland.  There was a frumpy house mistress perusing Self-Improvement, though.  And not the exercise and fitness part, either.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 21, 2013, 08:31:57 PM
Target the B&N near a university.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2013, 08:33:39 PM
That requires effort, and I'm sleepy in the afternoons.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 26, 2013, 10:51:39 PM
I read a set of Star Wars books back the early to mid 90's and couldnt figure out what they were. It was the Thrawn Trilogy. I just reordered them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 26, 2013, 11:11:15 PM
Looks like it could have some interesting stories.

Video of the old guy here.
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/history/2013/05/world_war_i_veteran_the_last_of_the_great_war_s_soldiers_speak.single.html
Quote
The Last of the World War I Vets Speak
No soldiers survive the first Great War. But the author of The Last of the Doughboys talked to some of the last vets before they passed.

By Richard Rubin|Posted Thursday, May 23, 2013, at 8:04 AM

This is an excerpt from Richard Rubin's The Last of the Doughboys: The Forgotten Generation and Their Forgotten World War, the story of a decade-long odyssey to recover the stories of the forgotten world war. Rubin interviewed dozens of American World War I veterans for the book, including William J. Lake, a private in the U.S. Army's 91st ("Wild West") Division who was drafted in 1917 and served with a machine gun crew in France. At the time of the interview, in October 2003, Lake was 107; he died in June 2004. The Last of the Doughboys is being published this week by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt.

Pvt. William Lake and the rest of the Wild West Division trained at Camp Lewis, near Tacoma, Wash., he told me, for nine months before they boarded trains for Camp Merritt, N.J., whence they would head up to New York and ship out for France. According to the unnamed author of The Story of the 91st Division, published in 1919, the land portion of the trek took about six days. It was early summer; they traveled through a lot of areas that were probably quite hot at the time, and I doubt there were showers on those trains. Nevertheless, it was a spirited journey:

"After witnessing demonstrations from coast to coast, the men of the 91st felt that they were backed by an undivided nation. The motherly gray-haired old woman standing in front of her little cottage on the broad prairie of Montana, alternately waving a flag and brushing away the tears she could not restrain, contributed as much to this feeling as did the impromptu receptions tendered the men in the great cities through which they passed."
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If it sounds like the men of the 91st had a grand old time crossing the country by rail, Pvt. William J. Lake, at least, did not. He was sick the whole way across, was sick even before he left Camp Lewis.

"I got the measles," he explained.

Eighty-five years later, that continued to mystify him: "I don't know where I got them," he told me. "Still don't know where I got them!" No one else seemed to have them; there was no word of measles in the camp, or on the train. Not even from him: Bill Lake traveled six days on a hot, crowded troop train, from Washington to New Jersey, sick with measles—and never told anyone. "I didn't say anything until we got on the boat," he confessed. "I was out on the water." The boat, he recalled, was the Empress of Russia, a British/Canadian mail ship that was used as a troop transport during the war.

"Why didn't you say anything?" I asked him.

"Because I know if I did," he said, "and it leaked that I did have something, I might be out of the company or something, and I didn't want that, so I didn't say nothing." He smiled, and then laughed.

Eventually, out at sea, he told his captain. "I was lying down," he recalled. "He came around, he says, 'What's the matter?' I says, 'I don't feel good.' He sent the doctor down there, told me I had the measles. ... So they put me in the hospital on the boat, hospital room ... and then they got over there"—that is, Liverpool, where the 91st disembarked before shuttling across the channel to France—"and they left me [in a hospital] over there for six weeks. Wanted to be sure I was all good before I went back to the company."

He arrived at the front on Sept. 29, 1918. His six weeks in that hospital in Liverpool, England, had given him a view of the war that no one else in the Wild West Division had experienced, yet. As the lone American among ailing Tommies, he told me, "it was like a different universe. They talked different. And they told me, they didn't seem to have any money; they was always asking me for money. Well, I didn't have any money to give them guys. That's the way it was—they was just left behind and broke."

"Were a lot of them wounded?" I asked.

"Yeah," he said. "I saw several of them with their arms and legs off."

When he was deemed well enough to fight, he was put on a train for Southampton, England, then a transport for Le Havre, France, and then, he said, "I had to walk a day to get to the unit," carrying a 50-pound pack all the while. When he arrived, the first person to greet him was his captain, a man he and the rest of the Machine Gun Company held in very high esteem. Instinctively, he went to salute, but the captain caught his arm and stopped him; shook his hand, instead. Pvt. Lake was perplexed. "He said, 'Don't salute me,' he says. 'You don't know who's looking.' And so I didn't. That's true—you didn't know," he told me.

And then he added, softly: "And he was killed that night."

"He was killed that night?" I repeated, a bit stunned. "How? By a sniper, or ..."

"I don't know," he said. "All I know is he got killed." He shook his head. "Well, that hurt me. He was a good guy. He was easy to get along with, but he wanted you to do what [he told you to do]. ... He was one of them guys who wasn't afraid of nothing." He added: "He wouldn't ask you to do anything that he didn't."

"Do you remember his name?" I asked.

He was quiet for a moment, pursed his lips. "No," he said softly. "I cannot remember his name." It seemed to pain him as much as not being able to remember his father's.

"So what was it like when you got to the front?" I asked him. "What did it look like?"

"Well, I'll tell you," he said as he closed his eyes and shook his head again. "Bullets zipping around you all the time. You just never knew when you was going to get hit."
130520_HIST_Doughboys

Courtesy of Houghton Mifflin Harcourt

As he said time and again 85 years later, Bill Lake was lucky. He was not among the thousands of casualties the Wild West Division took. The Germans sure did try to include him, though. Like artillery, machine guns were high-priority targets for the enemy because of the damage they did. ("That machine gun was a wicked gun, that machine gun," Pvt. Lake recalled. "Oh, man.") But there are only a few ways to silence a machine gun, since you can't really assault them directly without exposing yourself to their terrible fire. One is to hit them with artillery; for that you have to know exactly where they are, and you have to be able to hit them quickly enough that they can't just scuttle away once they figure out what you're up to. Another way is to crawl up on their flanks undetected—and already you're getting into a high level of difficulty, as machine gun nests were often well-protected—and blow them up with grenades. Or, finally, you could kill the guys who run back and forth between the machine gun and its supply depot, fetching ammunition.

Pvt. Lake was one of those guys. "So what would you do?" I asked. "You would have to ride back and forth between the front line and the ammunition depot?"

"Yeah," he said. "But we did that at night. We didn't do it during the daytime." Too dangerous.

He was given the job, I imagine, because of his experience driving teams of horses. "They didn't have this mechanized stuff at that time at all," he explained.

"So when you would go back and forth between the front and the ammunition depot, you were driving a horse cart?" I asked.

"Mule," he said.

"What were the mules like with the artillery? Did they get spooked?"

"They would get killed once in a while."

Pvt. Lake had to make quite a few runs every night, and flashlights—and lighters, and matches, and anything else that might help illuminate the way—were, of course, forbidden. I asked him if he got used to it at some point. "Well, you kind of get used to it," he told me, "but it's pretty scary, I'll tell you, because you don't know when you're going to get it."

"How did you cope with that?"

"Well, it kind of bothered me at first, but I got used to it—well, as near used to it as I'd ever get, because you'd hear bullets hitting off, zipping all around ..."

"What would you do when bullets were zipping around? Would you hit the ground, or would you just keep on your way?"

"No," he said, "I just kept going."

"So you really just had to be very lucky?" I posited.

"That's right," he said. "Very lucky, that's true." One night, he told me, "a piece of shrapnel just missed my left arm," while another one tore through his coat-tail, he said, "about two inches from my back." If it had hit him, he reckoned, "I'd have been gone ... that's how close I come to getting it." The following night—"I was just standing there," he explained, "waiting for something, I guess, I don't remember what it was"—he had a close encounter with a German bullet. "It was either machine gun or rifle," he told me. "Whichever it was, I don't know, I couldn't tell you. But it hit the heel on my shoe." And tore it off. He got off a few shots himself—some at a low-flying German aeroplane, others at an enemy gunner—but he didn't believe he'd hit either.

Another time, he recalled, "I got a little gas"—that is, mustard gas, not the kind we all get from time to time. "Not enough to do any harm, really," he told me.

"What kind of effect did it have on you?" I asked him.

"Well," he said, "it makes you sick. It makes you feel terrible."

"You threw up?"

"Oh, yeah."

... Everyone in his company was exposed to gas at some time or other. "Some of them got it pretty bad," he said. "But I didn't. ...It could have killed me, but I didn't get that much."

I asked him what it was like at the front when there wasn't any shooting going on. "Well," he said, "it wasn't very often. Up at the front there was shooting all the God damned night."

"How did you handle the stress?" I inquired at one point.

"Well," he replied, "I took it the best way I could. I just—I know it was going to happen, so what could you do?"

One day, he recalled, "another guy and I were sitting on a bank." He paused, lowered his chin, pursed his lips; his voice dropped. "And a sniper shot him instead of me."

I looked at him for a moment. "You were sitting next to each other?"

"Yeah. No more than two feet apart. And he picked him instead of me. He killed him, of course." They had been sitting on a little dirt rise, near a trench. And this, I'm pretty sure, is the reason Bill Lake kept saying he was lucky. "They picked him instead of me. I was lucky, that's all ... we were sitting there side-by-side and he picked him instead of me."

We were quiet for a moment. "They got him," he assured me. "They found him; they found the sniper."

"Oh?" I said. "They killed him?"

"Oh, yeah," he said. "They didn't take him prisoner, not a sniper, no. He was up in a tree when they found him, and they let him have it. And he fell out of the tree, dead. And that's all there was to it."

He said it with aplomb; the passage of 85 years had not dulled his sense of righteous outrage. There was a very hard feeling about snipers then, even though everybody used them. "They didn't take a sniper prisoner," he explained. "They was dirty. They would shoot you in the back as soon as they would in the face, you know. They didn't care as long as they got you. But they got him, of course." He told this story several times over the course of our two-hour conversation, and though he never had anything new to add, he kept returning to it: That sniper picked him instead of me.

Excerpted from The Last of the Doughboys: The Forgotten Generation and Their Forgotten World War by Richard Rubin.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 27, 2013, 05:03:15 PM
Reading Eye of the Needle distracted me somewhat from the adventures of Lucky Jack and the good Doctor.  I have no finished the third book and I am well into the fourth.  Some of you thought the third book was perhaps the best of the series.  I have to say I found the sojourn in India a bit dull.  Perhaps because I found the relationship between the Doctor and De Villiers (sp?) the least interesting part of the series.  Mainly because I dont find her character particularly appealing so I am not really sure why the Doctor was so fascinated by her.

The battle between the Fleet of Indiamen and the French made up for it though.

The fouth book is off to a good start.  I liked how Jack has good reason to want to get back out on the ocean blue.  It is good to see the piratical glint back in his eye.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 27, 2013, 06:15:33 PM
You didn't find the interlude with the street urchin heart-breaking?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 27, 2013, 06:24:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 27, 2013, 06:15:33 PM
You didn't find the interlude with the street urchin heart-breaking?

Not really.  A bit predictable.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on May 27, 2013, 06:33:35 PM
Those books sound interesting, but I don't really know if I want to get into a series that takes place entirely from the POV of the bad guys.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 27, 2013, 08:19:39 PM
Quote from: Kleves on May 27, 2013, 06:33:35 PM
Those books sound interesting, but I don't really know if I want to get into a series that takes place entirely from the POV of the bad guys.  :(

How open-minded of you.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 27, 2013, 10:55:42 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 11, 2013, 06:52:11 AM
I've started reading the (ebook) version of the Perry Rhodan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Rhodan) series.

I grew up with the audio play versions of the first 19 or so episodes (audio plays on tape for kids and young teens were a very popular medium for German boys and girls in the 80s), but reading the series always gave me a serious case of archive panic: since 1961, there's been a new 60 page episode every week. So they're at episode 2698 at the moment.

7 done, thousands more to go. Each episode covers about as much plot as one episode of a TV series would in 30-45 minutes. Each issue can be read in 2-3 hours.

Reading 50+ year old sci-fi is interesting. The initial episodes hinge on the first moon expedition bringing back powerful technology that they refuse to hand over to NATO, because they're certain the other powers (Eastern Bloc and Asian Federation) would feel so threatened that WW3 would result. Instead they use their power to unite mankind against them (and later outside alien threats). A bit of an Ozymandias plot. Plus a bit of X-Men (mutants in the wake of Horishima and Nagasaki, who can teleport, or are telepathic/telekinetic).

The writing isn't exactly Pulitzer material, but is typical pulp fare (lots of exposition with slightly over the top style, and not very elegant at points - you can tell the writers were paid by the word).

One amusing scene, though, that had a mutant talk to his friends about his gift of "teletemporation", i.e. his ability to use his mind to travel to different times. It's an homage to the scene in Wells' Time Machine, only with starving/struggling artists and writers in Munich (clearly also referencing the writers of the series). :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 28, 2013, 09:22:46 AM
Finished new Khaled Hosseini book, And The Mountains Echoed. Brilliant work.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 01, 2013, 12:01:13 AM
Reading "By Fire and Sword - Cruelty and Atrocity in Medieval Warfare". In the chapter "The King as Judge and Executioner" it says:

QuoteEdward I - the Leopard, the Hammer of Scots - considered even mockery is a form of lèse-majesté. One medieval chronicle implies that the sack of Berwick was in response to the insults that he suffered from the town's ramparts: jibes, gestures and buttocks-baring.

Who knew that Quest for the Holy Grail had its basis in reality?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2F0721f1aa42f61fe314b7e43c88331509%2Ftumblr_mfyc3cXJu51rbjgjio1_500.jpg&hash=cf6ecc1617739ce5b76a7271e01c4f0172b8e179)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on June 01, 2013, 07:34:19 AM
Didn't know that....but now that I think about it not surprising. Those Python guys were pretty well educated and smart and probably knew that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: fhdz on June 01, 2013, 11:17:21 AM
Buttocks-baring? The horror!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 01, 2013, 11:18:23 AM
Quote from: fahdiz on June 01, 2013, 11:17:21 AM
Buttocks-baring? The horror!

Right? I'd consider it an invitation!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 01, 2013, 11:20:20 AM
 :lol:  Open, Sez Me!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 02, 2013, 01:52:57 PM
Despite all the good recommendations in the sci-fi/fantasy thread there's a few books I've got to go through first.

I've just finished Lords of Finance about the central bankers of the inter-war and the depression. It's very interesting for a layman and well written enough that you can follow the issues and personalities without needing to know too much about economic intricacies.

After years of people here mentioning it (especially Malthus) I'm finally reading I Am Red. Not too far in but so far I love it. It's one of those books I've mentioned to several people and wished I had more than one copy to give out.

I've also got All the King's Men and a book on Nazism to get to when it's done.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 02, 2013, 01:54:08 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 02, 2013, 01:52:57 PM
I've also got All the King's Men

First time reading it?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2013, 01:54:51 PM
Goddamn cock tease.

Just like C4 with his giant thread about Real American Superbowl Food(tm).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 02, 2013, 02:03:50 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 02, 2013, 01:54:08 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 02, 2013, 01:52:57 PM
I've also got All the King's Men

First time reading it?
Yep.

What, Yi?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Brazen on June 02, 2013, 02:07:21 PM
Just finished The Hundred-Year-Old Man Who Climbed Out of the Window and Disappeared. Highly recommended light-hearted Swedish crime romp that time-travels through 100 years of personal and world history in flashback.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2013, 02:07:34 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 02, 2013, 02:03:50 PM
What, Yi?

My bad.  I thought we were in your syfy and  phantacy thread.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 02, 2013, 02:38:14 PM
Quote from: Brazen on June 02, 2013, 02:07:21 PM
Just finished The Hundred-Year-Old Man Who Climbed Out of the Window and Disappeared. Highly recommended light-hearted Swedish crime romp that time-travels through 100 years of personal and world history in flashback.

Soon to be a minor movie!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 03, 2013, 08:34:46 AM
Reading The Iron King by Maurice Druon. Historical fiction translated from the French, start of a series, about Philip the Fair. So far, very good.

Comes with a foreword by George RR Martin, who claims this series (and its setting) was, in part, his inspiration for the Song of Ice and Fire. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 03, 2013, 08:08:39 PM
Taught myself to read French by reading those books plus le monde online.

To this day I don't know a lot of contemporary idioms but I know what a nourrice is.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on June 04, 2013, 07:38:16 AM
Very good choice Malthus. Awesome books. Except the last one, written after Maurice's death, that one is weird.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 04, 2013, 07:48:58 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 04, 2013, 07:38:16 AM
Very good choice Malthus. Awesome books. Except the last one, written after Maurice's death, that one is weird.

I'm getting the distinct impression from the first one it is a very bad idea to seduce the King of France's daughters-in-law, no matter how hott they are.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 05, 2013, 02:34:43 PM
Hey, does anyone know any good books about the history of China say turn of the 20th century to 1950s?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on June 05, 2013, 03:04:32 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 05, 2013, 02:34:43 PM
Hey, does anyone know any good books about the history of China say turn of the 20th century to 1950s?

It's not solely about the history of China, but The Generalissimo by Jay Taylor is an excellent biography of Chiang Kai-Shek and follows him very closely through that period.  It will, if nothing, give you a good perspective on most of the major and minor events.

http://tinyurl.com/khyare7
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on June 05, 2013, 09:45:16 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 05, 2013, 02:34:43 PM
Hey, does anyone know any good books about the history of China say turn of the 20th century to 1950s?

History of Modern China, Penguin, covers the time you say pretty much, although it goes to the present. I found it good.

http://www.amazon.ca/Penguin-History-Modern-China-Jonathan/dp/0141975156/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1370486700&sr=1-2
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on June 08, 2013, 09:33:43 AM
Trying to get through Wolf Hall. It would help if Hilary Mantel could write worth a damn.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 24, 2013, 12:29:56 PM
Picked up Naill Ferguson's The Great Degeneration over the weekend.

Executive Summary.  That is a few hours I am never going to get back.  It begins with an interesting premise that the rest of the world is catching up to the economies and standards of living of the West because of failing instutions within the West.  In paricularly he picks on failures of the Rule of Law (because access to legal adjudication and remedies have become too combersome and expensive) and the downfall of Civil Society as a result of a drop in volunteerism and the demise of many volunteer service organizations.

All of this leads to greater government expenditures which in turn makes Western economies less able to compete and reliant on the rest of the world to fund its debt.


When I first starting reading it I thought this would be a great book for Berkut as it picks up on many of the ideas he had in his socialism thread.  But the book deals with these concepts in a very superficial manner - as I suppose it must being only about 150 pages.  At the end of the book I thought it read more like a poorly written tea party manifesto then anything.

Its too bad he didnt put a bit more effort into developing his ideas a bit more.  I suspect this was the product of turning some rough lecture notes into a book to satisfy a publishing deal.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-great-degeneration-niall-ferguson/1113833127?ean=9781594205453
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on June 24, 2013, 12:49:09 PM
Quote from: Kleves on June 08, 2013, 09:33:43 AM
Trying to get through Wolf Hall. It would help if Hilary Mantel could write worth a damn.

You're kidding. She's an excellent writer. It helps to remember that any reference to "he" is to Cromwell.

Currently reading Angels of our better nature by Pinker - very impressed with the 70 pages I've read so far. Interesting thesis, well-researched, impressively written.

Also The Night Circus - Erin Morgenstern. Very good so far. A superior version of Norrell & Strange.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 24, 2013, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Gups on June 24, 2013, 12:49:09 PM
Quote from: Kleves on June 08, 2013, 09:33:43 AM
Trying to get through Wolf Hall. It would help if Hilary Mantel could write worth a damn.

You're kidding. She's an excellent writer. It helps to remember that any reference to "he" is to Cromwell.

Agreed that her writing is good - that said there is just something about Wolf Hall that had me frequently putting it down until I just gave up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 24, 2013, 12:55:53 PM
Quote from: Gups on June 24, 2013, 12:49:09 PM
Also The Night Circus - Erin Morgenstern. Very good so far. A superior version of Norrell & Strange.

For that strand of fantasy, I really enjoyed The Golem and the Jinni . The central idea: both are involuntary immigrants to turn of the century New York. Fun and well-written.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15819028-the-golem-and-the-jinni
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 25, 2013, 05:21:56 PM
I am preparing to GM the Call of Cthulhu campaign Tatters of the King. Part of my preparation is reading the collection of stories related to Hastur/The King in Yellow/Carcosa published by Chaosium under the name The Hastur Cycle. I'm almost halfway through.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on June 25, 2013, 05:26:33 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 24, 2013, 12:55:53 PM
Quote from: Gups on June 24, 2013, 12:49:09 PM
Also The Night Circus - Erin Morgenstern. Very good so far. A superior version of Norrell & Strange.

For that strand of fantasy, I really enjoyed The Golem and the Jinni . The central idea: both are involuntary immigrants to turn of the century New York. Fun and well-written.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15819028-the-golem-and-the-jinni

Yeah, that's in my list of books to read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on July 03, 2013, 08:22:46 PM
Richard Evans 'The Coming of the Third Reich'. I'd read a couple of novels set in 1930s Germany (and Lords of Finance about the inter-war central bankers, including Hjalmar Schacht) and realised I knew nothing about the period beyond a rough idea of Nazism. Like many British kids I studied the collapse of Weimar for GCSE and A-level and have read about the War, but I didn't know the bit in between.

Apparently Evans' trilogy is the best on the Third Reich in general. Even though I knew a bit about Germany in the 20s this was incredible and really well-written. I can't recommend it enough. I'll get the next two ('The Third Reich in Power' and 'The Third Reich at War') and start on them soon.

For lighter reading I'm on the Barchester Chronicles. I still can't work out why I enjoy him so much, but I absolutely love Trollope :mellow:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: merithyn on July 03, 2013, 09:48:57 PM
I've been getting into some Agatha Christie lately. I had no idea that she was so prolific. :blink:

Also reading Dan Brown's Inferno. It's... interesting. It might be more interesting if I knew a little more - okay, anything - about Florence or Dante'. Brown definitely does a great job of pulling you in, though. I keep finding myself picking up my Nook when I should be picking up my text book. :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 03, 2013, 10:54:26 PM
Quote from: merithyn on July 03, 2013, 09:48:57 PM
Also reading Dan Brown's Inferno. It's... interesting. It might be more interesting if I knew a little more - okay, anything - about Florence or Dante'. Brown definitely does a great job of pulling you in, though. I keep finding myself picking up my Nook when I should be picking up my text book. :blush:

<_<
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 03, 2013, 11:02:14 PM
I picked up Tony Judt's "Post-War Europe".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: merithyn on July 03, 2013, 11:21:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 03, 2013, 10:54:26 PM
Quote from: merithyn on July 03, 2013, 09:48:57 PM
Also reading Dan Brown's Inferno. It's... interesting. It might be more interesting if I knew a little more - okay, anything - about Florence or Dante'. Brown definitely does a great job of pulling you in, though. I keep finding myself picking up my Nook when I should be picking up my text book. :blush:

<_<

:unsure:

What?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 03, 2013, 11:38:22 PM
Trashy and in the bad way.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 04, 2013, 01:23:59 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 03, 2013, 11:38:22 PM
Trashy and in the bad way.

No shit.  Especially when she should be reading her text book.
Don't bitch about the C in class because you were reading Catholic-hate porn.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on July 04, 2013, 07:20:38 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 03, 2013, 09:48:57 PM
I've been getting into some Agatha Christie lately. I had no idea that she was so prolific. :blink:

Also reading Dan Brown's Inferno. It's... interesting. It might be more interesting if I knew a little more - okay, anything - about Florence or Dante'. Brown definitely does a great job of pulling you in, though. I keep finding myself picking up my Nook when I should be picking up my text book. :blush:

I read her entire Hercule Poirot series when I was about 9. Man in the Brown Suit and Curtains are the best ones
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 04, 2013, 07:55:30 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 03, 2013, 08:22:46 PM
For lighter reading I'm on the Barchester Chronicles. I still can't work out why I enjoy him so much, but I absolutely love Trollope :mellow:

Ah yes, there is nothing like curling up in bed with a good Trollope [/Flashman]  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 04, 2013, 08:00:41 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 03, 2013, 09:48:57 PM
I've been getting into some Agatha Christie lately. I had no idea that she was so prolific. :blink:

My favourite was Ten Little Niggers Ten Little Indians And Then There Were None. ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on July 04, 2013, 09:24:11 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 03, 2013, 08:22:46 PM
....

For lighter reading I'm on the Barchester Chronicles. I still can't work out why I enjoy him so much, but I absolutely love Trollope :mellow:

Damn, I need to stick these on the reading list, especially as I'm spending some time working in the Cathedral close and am now picking up interesting gossip/politics.  :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: merithyn on July 05, 2013, 08:44:45 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 04, 2013, 01:23:59 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 03, 2013, 11:38:22 PM
Trashy and in the bad way.

No shit.  Especially when she should be reading her text book.
Don't bitch about the C in class because you were reading Catholic-hate porn.

Nah, I'm still getting an A+ in the class. :)

This one isn't Catholic-hate porn. In fact, it's more "people suck", which is more up your alley, Seedy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 10, 2013, 07:22:09 AM
Three Victories and a Defeat: The Rise and Fall of the First British Empire.

It's awesome, will elaborate when not typing on a kindle.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 10, 2013, 11:55:26 AM
Trying to fill a gap in my knowledge pool, so I turn, of course, to Languish.

Anyone have any recommendations for 1848/Spring of Nations?  Both primers and in-depth studies are welcome.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 10, 2013, 12:03:40 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 10, 2013, 11:55:26 AM
Trying to fill a gap in my knowledge pool, so I turn, of course, to Languish.

Anyone have any recommendations for 1848/Spring of Nations?  Both primers and in-depth studies are welcome.

Do you want to focus primarily on Paris and/or Germany, or the bigger picture?  Had a great text we had to read at Loyola, going to have to look for it because I don't remember the specific title and author, but it was a pretty comprehensive work focusing on France and Germany.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 10, 2013, 12:11:18 PM
A work focusing on those two would be great, but I'm pretty open to something broader in scope as well, especially if it covers Austria/Hungary.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on August 10, 2013, 12:44:01 PM
I really liked Priscilla Robertson's Revolutions of 1848.  I felt that it covered the events pretty well in a 400-page book.  Of course she did a good job with France and Germany, but I was especially pleased with the coverage of the events in Italy and Austria, which are often given short shrift, being farther from the center of civilization in northwest Europe.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 11, 2013, 12:46:47 AM
Good Omens. Had been disappointed in works by both Pratchett and Gaiman due to their reputations, but this collaborative effort really delivers. More weighty than a Pratchett novel, funnier and less hipster-y than a Gaiman. Highly recommend.

World War Z. Wonkish deconstruction of a zombie apocalypse scenario. Pretty fun. Little to do with the movie besides the name.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on August 11, 2013, 07:23:32 AM
Just got The Sleepwalkers on the recommendation of my friend the history professor.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 11, 2013, 07:25:45 PM
Let me know how you find it. I almost picked it up yesterday.

Edit: I did love the same author's history of Prussia.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 11, 2013, 07:29:19 PM
I don't think I ever finished the Prussia one. I remember repeatedly getting bored. :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 11, 2013, 08:30:34 PM
I quite enjoyed it. I think it perked up a lot once it got past the Thirty Years War and we were moving on from the Margraviate of Brandenburg :lol:

I'm currently reading Peter Mandelson's memoir. Like all good ones I think it sometimes reveals more than the author intends.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on August 11, 2013, 11:47:44 PM
I really liked The Sleepwalkers. It definitely altered my views on who bears responsibility for WWI.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 11, 2013, 11:52:49 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2013, 12:12:00 AM
:hmm: The detritus looked to be no more than a day old, the fruits and green leaved vegetables only now beginning to rot in the afternoon heat.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fgicp0MC.jpg&hash=e7b7adbef620b1c5cd3484a2d9224ecc5852c828)
"Houses often looked drab from the outside because the Romans were more interested in interior decorations."
:hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 12, 2013, 01:07:00 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 10, 2013, 11:55:26 AM
Anyone have any recommendations for 1848/Spring of Nations?  Both primers and in-depth studies are welcome.

:cry:  Languish has failed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on August 12, 2013, 01:21:14 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 11, 2013, 11:52:49 PM
"Houses often looked drab from the outside because the Romans were more interested in interior decorations."
:hmm:

You're going to knock up an ugly Italian.

"As our knowledge of Tatar activities is based largely on the Russian chronicles, the danger of distortion is especially great."

I will buy a mail-order bride from Astrakhan, but she will not be all I was promised.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on August 12, 2013, 01:22:28 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 11, 2013, 11:52:49 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2013, 12:12:00 AM
:hmm: The detritus looked to be no more than a day old, the fruits and green leaved vegetables only now beginning to rot in the afternoon heat.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fgicp0MC.jpg&hash=e7b7adbef620b1c5cd3484a2d9224ecc5852c828)
"Houses often looked drab from the outside because the Romans were more interested in interior decorations."
:hmm:

"The glory days were about to return".

As if. :rolleyes:

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on August 12, 2013, 05:48:22 AM
QuoteThe Blackout of 3132 provided the Capellan Confederation with the best opportunity it had ever had for reclaiming worlds it saw as stolen by Devlin Stone and the Republic.

Ok.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on August 12, 2013, 09:00:01 AM
Quote
Ragnar took land west of Eoferwic, up in the hills.


So I'm gonna shag a woman called Eoferwic.  :cool:

But how did they know the nickname for my todger is Ragnar? :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 12, 2013, 09:01:20 AM
Playing this at work, I got - "Occasionally, the moderator will choose to take on a specific role in the focus group interview."

:hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 12, 2013, 09:02:25 AM
Quote from: mongers on August 12, 2013, 09:00:01 AM
Quote
Ragnar took land west of Eoferwic, up in the hills.


So I'm gonna shag a woman called Eoferwic.  :cool:

But how did they know the nickname for my todger is Ragnar? :unsure:

Actually says west of - so I'd look for someone in the proximity of a woman named Eoferwic.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on August 12, 2013, 09:38:29 AM
QuoteShe threw a conscientious look around her, her face flaming scarlet with embarrassment.

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 12, 2013, 09:39:19 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 12, 2013, 09:38:29 AM
QuoteShe threw a conscientious look around her, her face flaming scarlet with embarrassment.

:lol:

:D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 12, 2013, 09:44:31 AM
"Over dinner, Stephen had baited her into declaring that she'd like to see the Middle East bombed to a parking lot."


Holy shit, CdM will fall in love.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on August 12, 2013, 09:57:41 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 12, 2013, 09:01:20 AM
Playing this at work, I got - "Occasionally, the moderator will choose to take on a specific role in the focus group interview."

:hmm:

Work version - sounds like fun.

Let's see...

QuoteThus, substantial interference with the trial process by causing undue delay and expense or by creating an appearance of substantial unfairness at any stage of the proceedings may result in a conviction for contempt, regardless of prejudice to the accused".

Kinky.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on August 12, 2013, 10:00:10 AM
"Those whom they defeated either had to pay tribute or face the full onslaught of the Assyrian war machine, which under Assurnasirpal acquired a deserved reputation for savagery."

...
...
I think I got Seedy's...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on August 12, 2013, 10:00:39 AM
QuoteStumbling along Halsted's crowded sidewalks, his dress uniform now as filthy as a set of battlefield fatigues, Avery fled from the paranoia of accusing glances to a dirty crawlspace beneath a riveted riser for the local maglev line.
:hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 12, 2013, 10:22:04 AM
"Such expenses represent part of the price that the plaintiff has to incure to secure his bargain"



:(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 12, 2013, 10:47:56 AM
That was pretty good, Mr. Druid, but why'd it take ya so long?

:hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on August 12, 2013, 10:52:24 AM
Quote from: PDH on August 12, 2013, 10:00:10 AM
"Those whom they defeated either had to pay tribute or face the full onslaught of the Assyrian war machine, which under Assurnasirpal acquired a deserved reputation for savagery."

...
...
I think I got Seedy's...

Go on. I'm mildly turned on.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 12, 2013, 11:03:16 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 12, 2013, 10:47:56 AM
That was pretty good, Mr. Druid, but why'd it take ya so long?

:hmm:

Which form were you in? Cat, bear, treant, fat chicken with antlers...?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 13, 2013, 05:10:30 PM
The Decline and Fall of the British Empire, by Piers Brendon.

Some early fun facts: a higher proportion of white crewmen died on slavers than did slaves.  When the slave trade was abolished, half of British long distance shipping was involved in the trade.  Disruption of food supplies to Jamaica caused by the American Revolution was the impetus for Bligh's trip to Tahiti to acquire breadfruit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 13, 2013, 05:14:21 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 13, 2013, 05:10:30 PM
The Decline and Fall of the British Empire, by Piers Brendon.

Some early fun facts: a higher proportion of white crewmen died on slavers than did slaves.  When the slave trade was abolished, half of British long distance shipping was involved in the trade.  Disruption of food supplies to Jamaica caused by the American Revolution was the impetus for Bligh's trip to Tahiti to acquire breadfruit.

The first fun fact makes perfect sense: most people on slave ships who died, would have died of disease, and White crew members would have less resistance to African diseases than Africans.

Hence the old sailor's ditty:

The Bight of Benin! The Bight of Benin!
One comes out, when a hundred went in!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 24, 2013, 08:36:38 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 11, 2013, 08:30:34 PM
I'm currently reading Peter Mandelson's memoir. Like all good ones I think it sometimes reveals more than the author intends.
I think this is the best of the New Labour books I've read.

Mandelson's got an interesting story even before Tony and Gordon start rowing. He was grandson of a great Labour Minister (and Deputy Prime Minister) and his parents were family friends of the Wilsons. As he said in his high camp speech at Labour Party Conference, he was born into the Labour Party. So it's interesting to read him reflecting on his time as a reformist council member in Lambeth when it was run by Trots and then as media director for Neil Kinnock. It's also the only thing I've ever read that makes the European Commission seem interesting.

It's striking how little he mentions his private life despite now being 'comfortable in his own skin' and there's a sense that it's something he'll never be willing to talk about. So there's mention of a lover in the 80s and his outing by the News of the World during the 87 election campaign, there's a few fleeting references to Reinaldo later on in the book. But I feel there's an interesting story to be told that we don't get. Being a gay man (and known as a gay man) trying to help resurrect Labour in the 80s must have been quite difficult and there must have been effects from it though we're never really let into that side of Mandelson.

Which is the best point of the book. It's got a very good ghost-writer, or Mandelson wrote it himself because there's a real tone to the book. He's clear, vain, funny and often faux-innocent (after one argument with Brown he 'accidentally' let the door shut heavily creating the impression he'd stormed out and slammed the door - and he remembers that detail 13 years later :lol:). The Corfu-Osborne incident is a brilliant example. He's very dismissive of 'dripping poison' into Osborne's ear about Brown, apparently Osborne did most of the talking and Mandelson occasionally nodded. When that got out and, very shortly afterwards, it emerged Osborne had been seeking party donations from ex-pat Russian oligarchs Mandelson is faux-naive about how that story emerged. Though he does note it helped his position.

It's also fascinating on Brown especially and seems to me pretty damning on Blair.

Darling and Douglas Alexander also emerge well. At one point planning the 2010 campaign Harriet Harman suggests a theme of 'family, future, fairness'. Darling replies 'how about fucked?' Alexander 'Futile?' Mandelson 'Finished.' :lol:

Currently reading a sort of moneyball account of football.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 26, 2013, 03:30:54 PM
I just finished The Great Game: On Secret Service in High Asia, by Peter Hopkirk.  It's a thrilling account of the British and Russian involvement in central Asia through the 19th and early 20th Century.  Since Hopkirk focuses on the accounts of individual men the book reads like an adventure novel.

The book was first published in the 1980s when the parallels between the Soviet and British invasion of Afghanistan were becoming obvious.  It was republished in 2006 when the parallels between the US-British and British invasion of Afghanistan were becoming obvious.   :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 26, 2013, 03:37:08 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 26, 2013, 03:30:54 PM
I just finished The Great Game: On Secret Service in High Asia, by Peter Hopkirk.  It's a thrilling account of the British and Russian involvement in central Asia through the 19th and early 20th Century.  Since Hopkirk focuses on the accounts of individual men the book reads like an adventure novel.

The book was first published in the 1980s when the parallels between the Soviet and British invasion of Afghanistan were becoming obvious.  It was republished in 2006 when the parallels between the US-British and British invasion of Afghanistan were becoming obvious.   :bowler:

Yeah, its excellent.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 27, 2013, 01:19:07 PM
Anyone know any good books on overall history of British-Indian relations? Including BEIC, the Raj and postcolonial period.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 27, 2013, 01:31:55 PM
lol postcolonial
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 27, 2013, 03:55:50 PM
Read a book a while back called "The Raj" which I thought pretty comprehensive.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 28, 2013, 01:41:10 AM
This looks pretty good. Languish Lawtalkers in particular might find it interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0805094563/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0805094563&linkCode=as2&tag=johnhawksanth-20
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 30, 2013, 06:21:11 AM
I need some recommendations on IJN air and naval operations in the Chinese Theater, '37-'41.  I have a few resources that touch on the topic as background to wider operational development in WW2, but I'm looking for recommendations for specific works beyond the the usual OOB stuff for the Chinese TOE.  Anybody have any?

Looked through some wargaming bibliographies, but haven't been finding what I want.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 30, 2013, 06:23:29 AM
Good luck. It's one of history's forgotten wars, only remembered angrily by more than a billion people.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 02, 2013, 09:43:21 AM
Will's peace yesterday on Atkinson's new book, with some choice quotes.

QuoteGeorge Will: Rick Atkinson's unsparing history of World War II
By George F. Will, Published: August 30

"The saviors come not home tonight: Themselves they could not save."
— Lines from A.E. Housman, scribbled in a soldier's diary

On Oct. 27, 1947, thousands of caskets were unloaded from a ship in New York. The bodies of U.S. soldiers from the European theater, writes Rick Atkinson, "then traveled by rail in a great diaspora across the republic for burial in their hometowns." Three young men, killed between the Battle of the Bulge in December 1944 and April 1945 in Germany two weeks before the war in Europe ended, were destined for Henry Wright's Missouri farm:

"Gray and stooped, the elder Wright watched as the caskets were carried into the rustic bedroom where each boy had been born. Neighbors kept vigil overnight, carpeting the floor with roses, and in the morning they bore the brothers to Hilltop Cemetery for burial side by side by side beneath an iron sky."

Atkinson's "The Guns at Last Light," the completion of his trilogy on the liberation of Western Europe, is history written at the level of literature. If, as a U.S. infantryman wrote, "No war is really over until the last veteran is dead," the war has not ended: About 400 World War II veterans, almost half a battalion, are dying each day. Spend the shank end of summer with Atkinson's tribute to all who served and suffered.

Western Europe was, Atkinson stresses, just one cauldron: "The Red Army suffered more combat deaths at Stalingrad alone than the U.S. armed forces did in the entire war." But "for magnitude and unalloyed violence, the battle in the Ardennes" — the Battle of the Bulge — "was unlike any seen before in American history." The 600,000 Americans who fought in the Ardennes were four times the number of Union and Confederate soldiers at Gettysburg.

Atkinson's story is propelled by vivid descriptions and delicious details. Britain before D-Day "was steeped in heavy smells, of old smoke and cheap coal and fatigue." Gen. Lucian Truscott "possessed what one staff officer called a 'predatory' face, with protruding gray eyes and gapped incisors set in a jut jaw built to scowl." Field Marshal Bernard Montgomerychafed under Gen. Dwight Eisenhower's command: "Subordination held little appeal for a solipsist." Soldiers visited Picasso in his Paris studio, where Hemingway, who ghostwrote love letters for some soldiers, "had left behind a box of grenades." British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, whose thoughts encompassed millenniums past and future, ordered German rocket sites on the French side of the English Channel destroyed so the French could not use them "if they fall out of temper with us." Some of the 6 billion propaganda leaflets dropped over Germany drifted as far as Italy. Jewish soldiers in the chaos of the Bulge hammered out the "H" — for "Hebrew" — on their dog tags. In a German iron pit, U.S. soldiers found crates labeled "Aachen Cathedral" containing "a silver bust of Charlemagne embedded with a fragment of the emperor's skull." These words were on a fortification in France: "Austin White, Chicago, Ill., 1918. Austin White, Chicago, Ill., 1945. This is the last time I want to write my name here."

In December 1944, the president's blood pressure was 260 over 150, and on an April day in 1945 American newspapers published the daily casualty list with next of kin, including this: "Army-Navy Dead: ROOSEVELT, Franklin D., commander-in-chief; wife, Mrs. Anna Eleanor Roosevelt, the White House."

Atkinson's narrative glows with the poetic prose of the heartbroken — letters penned by people caught up in what he calls "the scarlet calamity." After Conrad Nutting died when his P-51 crashed, his pregnant wife wrote: "It will be my cross, my curse, and my joy forever, that in my mind you shall always be vibrantly alive." An American war correspondent listened in a cemetery as a French girl read a letter from a mother to her son: "My dearest and unfortunate son, on June 16, 1944, like a lamb you died and left me alone without hope. . . . Your last words to me were, 'Mother, like the wind I came and like the wind I shall go.' "

Such reservoirs of eloquence were drawn from the depths of human dignity that survived the scalding obscenity of the war Atkinson describes unsparingly. The Battle of Agincourt (1415) is remembered less for its consequences than for what Shakespeare made of it in "Henry V." World War II's reverberations will roll down the centuries in its geopolitical consequences, and in the literature it elicited in letters and in histories like Atkinson's trilogy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 05, 2013, 08:32:39 AM
Read Family Favorites, historical fiction by Alfred Duggan about the Roman Emperor Elagabalus.

Very amusing. Makes the emperor appear to be something like a young garbon, if given unlimited power.  :D

Machinations in the empire raise a 14 year old Syrian heriditary priest of a sun-god, whose manifestation on earth is a large black phallic rock (a meteorite), to the throne. He's determined to be fabulous.

Trouble ensues as his grandmother attempts to tempt or force him into heterosexuality - for example, by buying up a whole flock of hott female slaves and telling the young emperor to play with them naked (he does, too - he harnesses them to chariots, naked, in place of horses and has his boy-friends race 'em for cash prizes. Take that, hetero-normatives!  :P ).

Racy stuff for 1960, when it was written. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 08, 2013, 06:39:57 AM
QuoteFrom recounting the intricate details and controversies behind the peace treaty that ended the First World War, Margaret MacMillan, the award-winning historian and author of the international bestseller Paris 1919: Six Months That Changed the World, has moved back in time to consider the origins of "the war to end wars." Her new book, The War that Ended Peace: The Road to 1914, will be out this fall – in anticipation of the 100th anniversary of the war next August.

:mmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on September 08, 2013, 05:44:04 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 08, 2013, 06:39:57 AM
QuoteFrom recounting the intricate details and controversies behind the peace treaty that ended the First World War, Margaret MacMillan, the award-winning historian and author of the international bestseller Paris 1919: Six Months That Changed the World, has moved back in time to consider the origins of "the war to end wars." Her new book, The War that Ended Peace: The Road to 1914, will be out this fall – in anticipation of the 100th anniversary of the war next August.

:mmm:
That does sound good. I've heard very good things about The Sleepwalkers as well:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Sleepwalkers-Europe-Went-1914/dp/006114665X
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 12, 2013, 06:22:48 PM
L'Étranger

Way existential.   :cool:

Not really, Camus saw his philosophy as absurdism rather than existentialism; but to the English speaking world he's the existentialist who could keep his audience awake.

I saw the Cure on the Bloodflowers tour.  They closed with their two minute summary of the book, "Killing an Arab":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdbLqOXmJ04 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdbLqOXmJ04)

The next day I mentioned that to some of my friends who weren't fans of either The Cure of Camus.  They thought it was a hate song directed at the large Arab community in Detroit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on September 13, 2013, 04:36:15 AM
Reading Malthus' Aunt's latest, a sequel to Oryx and Year of the Flood.

Margaret Atwood really really hates business casual clothing. It's kind of hilarious. Like listening to a Bond fashion blogger talk about Timothy Dalton.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 13, 2013, 07:07:42 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on September 12, 2013, 06:22:48 PM
L'Étranger

Way existential.   :cool:

Not really, Camus saw his philosophy as absurdism rather than existentialism; but to the English speaking world he's the existentialist who could keep his audience awake.

I dunno, I remember it was taught as Absurdism in Filosofy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 13, 2013, 08:48:22 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on September 13, 2013, 04:36:15 AM
Reading Malthus' Aunt's latest, a sequel to Oryx and Year of the Flood.

Margaret Atwood really really hates business casual clothing. It's kind of hilarious. Like listening to a Bond fashion blogger talk about Timothy Dalton.

I am looking forward to getting my hands on this one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 13, 2013, 08:50:47 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 05, 2013, 08:32:39 AM
Read Family Favorites, historical fiction by Alfred Duggan about the Roman Emperor Elagabalus.

Very amusing. Makes the emperor appear to be something like a young garbon, if given unlimited power.  :D

Machinations in the empire raise a 14 year old Syrian heriditary priest of a sun-god, whose manifestation on earth is a large black phallic rock (a meteorite), to the throne. He's determined to be fabulous.

Trouble ensues as his grandmother attempts to tempt or force him into heterosexuality - for example, by buying up a whole flock of hott female slaves and telling the young emperor to play with them naked (he does, too - he harnesses them to chariots, naked, in place of horses and has his boy-friends race 'em for cash prizes. Take that, hetero-normatives!  :P ).

Racy stuff for 1960, when it was written. 

<_<

Also, wtf? I'm now old?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 13, 2013, 08:55:32 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 13, 2013, 08:50:47 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 05, 2013, 08:32:39 AM
Read Family Favorites, historical fiction by Alfred Duggan about the Roman Emperor Elagabalus.

Very amusing. Makes the emperor appear to be something like a young garbon, if given unlimited power.  :D

Machinations in the empire raise a 14 year old Syrian heriditary priest of a sun-god, whose manifestation on earth is a large black phallic rock (a meteorite), to the throne. He's determined to be fabulous.

Trouble ensues as his grandmother attempts to tempt or force him into heterosexuality - for example, by buying up a whole flock of hott female slaves and telling the young emperor to play with them naked (he does, too - he harnesses them to chariots, naked, in place of horses and has his boy-friends race 'em for cash prizes. Take that, hetero-normatives!  :P ).

Racy stuff for 1960, when it was written. 

<_<

Also, wtf? I'm now old?

Well, you ain't 14 anymore.  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 13, 2013, 08:58:54 AM
Garbon wishes to deny he is travelling through time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2013, 09:21:25 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 13, 2013, 08:58:54 AM
Garbon wishes to deny he is travelling through time.
I think he's more annoyed by the idea that he'd wish to be "fabulous!".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 13, 2013, 09:34:26 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 13, 2013, 08:55:32 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 13, 2013, 08:50:47 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 05, 2013, 08:32:39 AM
Read Family Favorites, historical fiction by Alfred Duggan about the Roman Emperor Elagabalus.

Very amusing. Makes the emperor appear to be something like a young garbon, if given unlimited power.  :D

Machinations in the empire raise a 14 year old Syrian heriditary priest of a sun-god, whose manifestation on earth is a large black phallic rock (a meteorite), to the throne. He's determined to be fabulous.

Trouble ensues as his grandmother attempts to tempt or force him into heterosexuality - for example, by buying up a whole flock of hott female slaves and telling the young emperor to play with them naked (he does, too - he harnesses them to chariots, naked, in place of horses and has his boy-friends race 'em for cash prizes. Take that, hetero-normatives!  :P ).

Racy stuff for 1960, when it was written. 

<_<

Also, wtf? I'm now old?

Well, you ain't 14 anymore.  :P

Then say "younger". :angry:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 13, 2013, 09:41:21 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 13, 2013, 09:21:25 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 13, 2013, 08:58:54 AM
Garbon wishes to deny he is travelling through time.
I think he's more annoyed by the idea that he'd wish to be "fabulous!".

I would have thought he'd be annoyed at being compared to Elagabalus in the first place ...  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on September 13, 2013, 05:09:12 PM
Anyone else read Maddaddam yet?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on September 13, 2013, 05:53:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 13, 2013, 08:48:22 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on September 13, 2013, 04:36:15 AM
Reading Malthus' Aunt's latest, a sequel to Oryx and Year of the Flood.

Margaret Atwood really really hates business casual clothing. It's kind of hilarious. Like listening to a Bond fashion blogger talk about Timothy Dalton.

I am looking forward to getting my hands on this one.

Malthus's aunt?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 13, 2013, 08:30:18 PM
Quote from: Josephus on September 13, 2013, 05:53:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 13, 2013, 08:48:22 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on September 13, 2013, 04:36:15 AM
Reading Malthus' Aunt's latest, a sequel to Oryx and Year of the Flood.

Margaret Atwood really really hates business casual clothing. It's kind of hilarious. Like listening to a Bond fashion blogger talk about Timothy Dalton.

I am looking forward to getting my hands on this one.

Malthus's aunt?

:lol:

Welcome back, you need to post more.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 14, 2013, 05:46:16 PM
Quote from: Josephus on September 13, 2013, 05:53:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 13, 2013, 08:48:22 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on September 13, 2013, 04:36:15 AM
Reading Malthus' Aunt's latest, a sequel to Oryx and Year of the Flood.

Margaret Atwood really really hates business casual clothing. It's kind of hilarious. Like listening to a Bond fashion blogger talk about Timothy Dalton.

I am looking forward to getting my hands on this one.

Malthus's aunt?

Yes, and no, I haven't read it yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 14, 2013, 07:58:24 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 14, 2013, 05:46:16 PM
Quote from: Josephus on September 13, 2013, 05:53:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 13, 2013, 08:48:22 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on September 13, 2013, 04:36:15 AM
Reading Malthus' Aunt's latest, a sequel to Oryx and Year of the Flood.

Margaret Atwood really really hates business casual clothing. It's kind of hilarious. Like listening to a Bond fashion blogger talk about Timothy Dalton.

I am looking forward to getting my hands on this one.

Malthus's aunt?

Yes, and no, I haven't read it yet.

I think you missed the joke bit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 15, 2013, 09:28:21 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2013, 07:58:24 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 14, 2013, 05:46:16 PM
Quote from: Josephus on September 13, 2013, 05:53:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 13, 2013, 08:48:22 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on September 13, 2013, 04:36:15 AM
Reading Malthus' Aunt's latest, a sequel to Oryx and Year of the Flood.

Margaret Atwood really really hates business casual clothing. It's kind of hilarious. Like listening to a Bond fashion blogger talk about Timothy Dalton.

I am looking forward to getting my hands on this one.

Malthus's aunt?

Yes, and no, I haven't read it yet.

I think you missed the joke bit.

That I did.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on September 16, 2013, 06:20:34 AM
Be interested in views on MadAdam. I loved O&C but thought Year of the Flood was pretty average. MadAdam has been getting quite luke warm reviews.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on September 16, 2013, 12:54:21 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 13, 2013, 08:30:18 PM
Quote from: Josephus on September 13, 2013, 05:53:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 13, 2013, 08:48:22 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on September 13, 2013, 04:36:15 AM
Reading Malthus' Aunt's latest, a sequel to Oryx and Year of the Flood.

Margaret Atwood really really hates business casual clothing. It's kind of hilarious. Like listening to a Bond fashion blogger talk about Timothy Dalton.

I am looking forward to getting my hands on this one.

Thanks.....my current role as acting editor is keeping me busier than usual...

Malthus's aunt?

:lol:

Welcome back, you need to post more.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on September 18, 2013, 03:32:35 AM
Decided I needed some fiction. Been reading the Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons.  I really liked his "The Terror", and wanted to try out the audiobook function on my Kindle.  So far I enjoy it.  It has an intriguing plot, and is told in an interesting way, ( all the main characters tell stories about themselves in an imitation of the Canterbury tales).  I remember Shelf mentioning that he liked it.  It's not ineptly written, but Simmons has gotten better in his craft since 1989.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on September 20, 2013, 12:24:36 PM
Anyone know anything on Polynesian history and culture?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2013, 12:26:29 PM
I know that American Samoans eat a shitload of Spam.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on September 20, 2013, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 18, 2013, 03:32:35 AM
Decided I needed some fiction. Been reading the Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons.  I really liked his "The Terror", and wanted to try out the audiobook function on my Kindle.  So far I enjoy it.  It has an intriguing plot, and is told in an interesting way, ( all the main characters tell stories about themselves in an imitation of the Canterbury tales).  I remember Shelf mentioning that he liked it.  It's not ineptly written, but Simmons has gotten better in his craft since 1989.

I like his recent output. Thought Terror was a fantastic book. Black Hills and Drood are also worth reading...but didnt care for Flashback so much

Apparently AMC is developing The Terror as a series. Can't wait.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 24, 2013, 05:00:03 PM
Finished The Sleepwalkers: How Europe went to war in 1914. I was shocked to learn that Slavs are horrible, horrible people and responsible for WW1.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on September 24, 2013, 05:30:06 PM
The p. 45 game. There are two books in equal proximity.

"I've seen this happen not just with mobile teams but also with other small groups like those working in casual PC or on UDK"; and

"Chaos - the first thing to exist, in Hesiod's account of creation in the Theogony."

... not sure how to feel about that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 24, 2013, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 08, 2013, 06:39:57 AM
QuoteFrom recounting the intricate details and controversies behind the peace treaty that ended the First World War, Margaret MacMillan, the award-winning historian and author of the international bestseller Paris 1919: Six Months That Changed the World, has moved back in time to consider the origins of "the war to end wars." Her new book, The War that Ended Peace: The Road to 1914, will be out this fall – in anticipation of the 100th anniversary of the war next August.

:mmm:

The Chapters website has this being released on October 29th.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 24, 2013, 10:38:07 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 24, 2013, 05:00:03 PM
Finished The Sleepwalkers: How Europe went to war in 1914. I was shocked to learn that Slavs are horrible, horrible people and responsible for WW1.

I considered picking that one up. There were also two other topical books that looked interesting: one about the year 1914 in Vienna, before the war - how city life was on the eve of the fall of the Habsburg empire. And "From Sarajevo to Bad Ischl", which chronicles the month between the assassination of the Archduke and the declaration of war on Serbia.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 25, 2013, 12:56:44 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 24, 2013, 10:38:07 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 24, 2013, 05:00:03 PM
Finished The Sleepwalkers: How Europe went to war in 1914. I was shocked to learn that Slavs are horrible, horrible people and responsible for WW1.

I considered picking that one up. There were also two other topical books that looked interesting: one about the year 1914 in Vienna, before the war - how city life was on the eve of the fall of the Habsburg empire. And "From Sarajevo to Bad Ischl", which chronicles the month between the assassination of the Archduke and the declaration of war on Serbia.

Pick it up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 05, 2013, 06:08:57 PM
 :D

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthemetapicture.com%2Fmedia%2Ffunny-weird-book-title.jpg&hash=a877ec0f4a6639839c639f15d652b547ca492078)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on October 08, 2013, 05:13:06 PM
Some enjoyable fantasy/sci-fi I've read recently:

Bitter Seeds by Ian Tregillis:
QuoteIt's 1939. The Nazis have supermen, the British have demons, and one perfectly normal man gets caught in between.

Raybould Marsh is a British secret agent in the early days of the Second World War, haunted by something strange he saw on a mission during the Spanish Civil War: a German woman with wires going into her head who looked at him as if she knew him.

When the Nazis start running missions with people who have unnatural abilities—a woman who can turn invisible, a man who can walk through walls, and the woman Marsh saw in Spain who can use her knowledge of the future to twist the present—Marsh is the man who has to face them. He rallies the secret warlocks of Britain to hold the impending invasion at bay. But magic always exacts a price. Eventually, the sacrifice necessary to defeat the enemy will be as terrible as outright loss would be.

Ravenor by Dan Abnett:
Sequel to Abnett's Warhammer 40k Eisenhorn novels about the Imperial Inquisition. The Ravenor books are darker, and you get more of the Imperium's dystopian flavor.

The Grim Company by Luke Scull:
QuoteThe Gods are dead. The Magelord Salazar and his magically enhanced troops, the Augmentors, crush any dissent they find in the minds of the populace. On the other side of the Broken Sea, the White Lady plots the liberation of Dorminia, with her spymistresses, the Pale Women. Demons and abominations plague the Highlands.

The world is desperately in need of heroes. But what they get instead are a ragtag band of old warriors, a crippled Halfmage, two orphans and an oddly capable manservant: the Grim Company.

The Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson:
QuoteRoshar is a world of stone and storms. Uncanny tempests of incredible power sweep across the rocky terrain so frequently that they have shaped ecology and civilization alike. Animals hide in shells, trees pull in branches, and grass retracts into the soilless ground. Cities are built only where the topography offers shelter.

It has been centuries since the fall of the ten consecrated orders known as the Knights Radiant, but their Shardblades and Shardplate remain: mystical swords and suits of armor that transform ordinary men into near-invincible warriors. Men trade kingdoms for Shardblades. Wars were fought for them, and won by them.

One such war rages on a ruined landscape called the Shattered Plains. There, Kaladin, who traded his medical apprenticeship for a spear to protect his little brother, has been reduced to slavery. In a war that makes no sense, where ten armies fight separately against a single foe, he struggles to save his men and to fathom the leaders who consider them expendable.

Brightlord Dalinar Kholin commands one of those other armies. Like his brother, the late king, he is fascinated by an ancient text called The Way of Kings. Troubled by over-powering visions of ancient times and the Knights Radiant, he has begun to doubt his own sanity.

Across the ocean, an untried young woman named Shallan seeks to train under an eminent scholar and notorious heretic, Dalinar's niece, Jasnah. Though she genuinely loves learning, Shallan's motives are less than pure. As she plans a daring theft, her research for Jasnah hints at secrets of the Knights Radiant and the true cause of the war.

The Ten Thousand by Paul Kearney:
QuoteOn the world of Kuf, the Macht are a mystery, a seldom-seen people of extraordinary ferocity and discipline whose prowess on the battlefield is the stuff of legend. For centuries they have remained within the remote fastnesses of the Harukush Mountains. In the world beyond, the teeming races and peoples of Kuf have been united within the bounds of the Asurian Empire, which rules the known world, and is invincible. The Great King of Asuria can call up whole nations to the battlefield.
His word is law.

But now the Great King¹s brother means to take the throne by force, and in order to do so he has sought out the legend. He hires ten thousand mercenary warriors of theMacht, and leads them into the heart of the Empire.

Promise of Blood by Brian McClellan:
QuoteField Marshal Tamas' coup against his king sent corrupt aristocrats to the guillotine and brought bread to the starving. But it also provoked war with the Nine Nations, internal attacks by royalist fanatics, and the greedy to scramble for money and power by Tamas's supposed allies: the Church, workers unions, and mercenary forces.

Stretched to his limit, Tamas is relying heavily on his few remaining powder mages, including the embittered Taniel, a brilliant marksman who also happens to be his estranged son, and Adamat, a retired police inspector whose loyalty is being tested by blackmail.

Now, as attacks batter them from within and without, the credulous are whispering about omens of death and destruction. Just old peasant legends about the gods waking to walk the earth. No modern educated man believes that sort of thing. But they should...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on October 08, 2013, 06:33:45 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 24, 2013, 05:00:03 PM
Finished The Sleepwalkers: How Europe went to war in 1914. I was shocked to learn that Slavs are horrible, horrible people and responsible for WW1.
:mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 08, 2013, 06:44:34 PM
Very horrible people.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 08, 2013, 09:02:24 PM
True, but the CP were responsible.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 08, 2013, 09:03:45 PM
They were provoked by Slavs.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on October 08, 2013, 09:04:55 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on October 08, 2013, 06:33:45 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 24, 2013, 05:00:03 PM
Finished The Sleepwalkers: How Europe went to war in 1914. I was shocked to learn that Slavs are horrible, horrible people and responsible for WW1.
:mad:

So far the Serbs sound pretty horrible.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on October 08, 2013, 09:18:17 PM
Currently listening to The Guns of August.  Still think Austrians are to blame.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 08, 2013, 09:29:33 PM
Germans and Russians.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 08, 2013, 09:31:11 PM
Russkies.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 08, 2013, 09:43:12 PM
Whoever Spellus likes is to blame.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on October 08, 2013, 10:24:48 PM
Wasn't Serbia a treaty ally?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on October 08, 2013, 10:44:02 PM
All Euros are to blame.  They're all stupid, warlike savages.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 09, 2013, 01:20:25 AM
Quote from: Kleves on October 08, 2013, 05:13:06 PM

Promise of Blood by Brian McClellan:
QuoteField Marshal Tamas' coup against his king sent corrupt aristocrats to the guillotine and brought bread to the starving. But it also provoked war with the Nine Nations, internal attacks by royalist fanatics, and the greedy to scramble for money and power by Tamas's supposed allies: the Church, workers unions, and mercenary forces.

Stretched to his limit, Tamas is relying heavily on his few remaining powder mages, including the embittered Taniel, a brilliant marksman who also happens to be his estranged son, and Adamat, a retired police inspector whose loyalty is being tested by blackmail.

Now, as attacks batter them from within and without, the credulous are whispering about omens of death and destruction. Just old peasant legends about the gods waking to walk the earth. No modern educated man believes that sort of thing. But they should...
Sounds like a beetiful tale.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 11, 2013, 10:19:20 AM
I'm reading - and so far, enjoying - Mr Selden's Map of China by Tmothy Brook, which just came out in Canada, all about the events surrounding the creation, storage and discovery of a fabulously accurate (for the time and source) 16th century Chinese map - including some amazing impacts on the history of international law, trade and exploration (the European owner of the map, the Mr. Selden of the title, was one of the two most important figures in development of the law of the sea - not a coincidence).

Great fun for history and geography nerds, like me. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 16, 2013, 09:57:38 AM
Finished "Seven Ages of Paris" by Alistair Horne

I had previously read Horne's book on the Franco Prussian War and Commune (The Fall of Paris: The Siege and the Commune 1870-71.)  The commune section in the seven ages had the Reader's Digest condensed version of that work.  I suspect the other sections are condensed versions of his other books.

It's an interesting work, covering Roman Lutetia to 1968.  Horne assumes that the reader is familiar both with Paris and speaks some French.  There's a wealth of anecdotes, and the occasional interjections by the author about how Anglo-Saxon historians view La Ville Lumiere
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 16, 2013, 11:38:17 AM
I love Alastair Horne. His 'Savage War of Peace' about Algeria is outstanding.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 16, 2013, 12:08:07 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 16, 2013, 11:38:17 AM
I love Alastair Horne. His 'Savage War of Peace' about Algeria is outstanding.

I might check out the rest of his works; I really enjoyed "The Fall of Paris."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on October 18, 2013, 10:31:30 AM
Commenced by annual tour of the Bookoer shortlist.

Finisihed Harvest by Jim Crace which is unrelaibly narrated by a agricultural working at some time in the 17th or 18th century around the time of enclosures. Very lyrical and beautifully wrtten but meandered a bit.

Just started The Lowland by Jhumpa Lahiri whcih appears to be about Naxalites in India. Very good so far, although some of it is set in Rhode Island so tainted.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 18, 2013, 10:33:15 AM
RI pantaloon gossip feather!! :w00t:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 18, 2013, 03:34:57 PM
The instructions of Shuruppak

One of the oldest surviving pieces of literature, this is a set of instruction, allegedly provided by the last antediluvian king to his son (flood hero Ziusudra).  The advice, though, is solidly middle class and in fact contains warning about the palace and palace slaves.  Some of the advice is surprisingly timeless:

The wet-nurses in the women's quarters determine the fate of their lord.

Sounds remarkably similar to the 19th century poem "The Hand That Rocks The Cradle Is The Hand That Rules The World."

Other advice is amusing:

You should not pass judgment when you drink beer.

Other clearly come from a different place and a different time.  There's advice on how to deal with slaves (the best ones come from the mountains); reputation is held to be paramount (the admonishment against rape is because people will learn of it); and there's advice on how to plant and harvest crops.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 18, 2013, 03:45:21 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 18, 2013, 03:34:57 PM
The instructions of Shuruppak

One of the oldest surviving pieces of literature, this is a set of instruction, allegedly provided by the last antediluvian king to his son (flood hero Ziusudra).  The advice, though, is solidly middle class and in fact contains warning about the palace and palace slaves.  Some of the advice is surprisingly timeless:

The wet-nurses in the women's quarters determine the fate of their lord.

Sounds remarkably similar to the 19th century poem "The Hand That Rocks The Cradle Is The Hand That Rules The World."

Other advice is amusing:

You should not pass judgment when you drink beer.

Other clearly come from a different place and a different time.  There's advice on how to deal with slaves (the best ones come from the mountains); reputation is held to be paramount (the admonishment against rape is because people will learn of it); and there's advice on how to plant and harvest crops.

Available online!

http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section5/tr561.htm

This is one for the ages - aimed squarely at our own Brain:

QuoteYou should not abuse a ewe; otherwise you will give birth to a daughter.

And of course this is important for everyone:

QuoteYou should not have sex with your slave girl: she will chew you up
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 18, 2013, 03:46:03 PM
Whoops.  :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 18, 2013, 03:47:00 PM
Ewe. :x
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on October 18, 2013, 03:58:04 PM
Shall I read Another book by the end of the year ? :unsure:

:tumbleweeds:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 22, 2013, 03:42:06 PM
Kesh Temple Hymn

Another of the oldest pieces of known literature this originates from the Mesopotamian city-state of Kesh around 2600 BC.  It's a hymn of praise for the temple of Kesh.  The text is obscure, but it seems to be spoken by the chief god Enlil.  Different aspects of the temple are praised throughout the eight versus.  Each ends with the line:

Will anyone else bring forth something as great as Kesh? Will any other mother ever give birth to someone as great as its hero Acgi? Who has ever seen anyone as great as its lady Nintud?

Nintud is a Sumerian mother-goddess and was probably the tutelary goddess of Kesh.  The work ends with the paradoxical lines:

Draw near, man, to the city, to the city -- but do not draw near! Draw near, man, to the house Kesh, to the city -- but do not draw near! Draw near, man, to its hero Acgi -- but do not draw near! Draw near, man, to its lady Nintud -- but do not draw near! Praise be to well-built Kec, O Acgi! Praise be to cherished Kesh and Nintud!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 22, 2013, 03:44:24 PM
Is Ke$ha a direct descendant of the high priestess of Kesh?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on October 22, 2013, 07:19:52 PM
Reading Mark Helprin's latest, Shadow and Light or something like that.

Awesome
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on November 05, 2013, 03:58:50 PM
Stephen Harper's hockey history book comes out today. :shifty:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on November 05, 2013, 04:01:01 PM
Young Stalin.  I bought it for a penny!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on November 05, 2013, 07:52:58 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 05, 2013, 04:01:01 PM
Young Stalin.  I bought it for a penny!

It's worth every penny....well, just the one in your case.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Berkut on November 05, 2013, 08:02:05 PM
Not strictly reading of course, but I've been listening to Dan Carlin's "Hardcore History" podcasts, and specifically his latest:

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/5/e/f/5efbf5156133b619/dchha50_Blueprint_for_Armageddon_I.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d01c08430d0cd5afcfd&c_id=6343172

Blueprint for Armageddon I

If you have even a passing, casual interest in history and WW1, this is something you should listen to. If you are a serious student of WW1 history, there won't be anything really new here, but he has a great style, and pulls together a lot in a very approachable manner. I would almost compare him to Ambrose, except a lot smarter, a lot less overtly RahRahAmerica. But it is that very easy to follow, approachable way of talking about history while at the same time being extremely engaging an interesting.

I cannot recommend this enough.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on November 06, 2013, 10:52:09 AM
Anyone else read The Iron Kingdom?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 06, 2013, 12:29:09 PM
Yes. I enjoyed it a lot. Garbon, not so much.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 06, 2013, 01:18:03 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on November 06, 2013, 10:52:09 AM
Anyone else read The Iron Kingdom?

Does a good job if you want a survey of political history across the whole period in a single volume.  It is a pretty conventional "great men" kind of focus but put in an international context with a focus on high politics and institutional-administrative developments.  Short on cultural and economic history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on November 06, 2013, 01:25:29 PM
I'm liking it. The future Frederick the Great just watched his boyfriend get decapitated.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on November 06, 2013, 01:27:08 PM
I'm starting The Shape of Things to Come.  Will it have as much righteous air war as the movie?  We'll find out.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on November 07, 2013, 05:00:41 AM
QuoteThere remains no way now of becoming passively wealthy. Gambling was ruthlessly eradicated under the Air Dictatorship and has never returned.

I came.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 07, 2013, 11:07:37 AM
How is running a casino being passive?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on November 09, 2013, 04:27:33 PM
Anyone know any great non-Schama books on the Dutch Republic? Looking for politics, religion, economics, science and military innovatioms more than culture. Also good books on Calvinism and associated Protestant movements more generally?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on November 09, 2013, 09:04:12 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 22, 2013, 03:42:06 PM
Kesh Temple Hymn

To think that this is about 5000 years old is amazing to me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on November 10, 2013, 12:31:10 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on November 09, 2013, 04:27:33 PM
Anyone know any great non-Schama books on the Dutch Republic? Looking for politics, religion, economics, science and military innovatioms more than culture. Also good books on Calvinism and associated Protestant movements more generally?

Jonathan Israel's book is the one most frequently mentioned along Schama's.
I haven't read it so can't comment much.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on November 10, 2013, 12:48:44 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 05, 2013, 08:02:05 PM
Not strictly reading of course, but I've been listening to Dan Carlin's "Hardcore History" podcasts, and specifically his latest:

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/5/e/f/5efbf5156133b619/dchha50_Blueprint_for_Armageddon_I.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d01c08430d0cd5afcfd&c_id=6343172

Blueprint for Armageddon I

If you have even a passing, casual interest in history and WW1, this is something you should listen to. If you are a serious student of WW1 history, there won't be anything really new here, but he has a great style, and pulls together a lot in a very approachable manner. I would almost compare him to Ambrose, except a lot smarter, a lot less overtly RahRahAmerica. But it is that very easy to follow, approachable way of talking about history while at the same time being extremely engaging an interesting.

I cannot recommend this enough.

I'll have to give this another shot.  I like history podcasts, but I couldn't stand Carlin.  The material was fine but everything from his voice, to presentation, to everything else drove me crazy.

Lots of people like him so I will try again.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on November 10, 2013, 04:29:24 PM
Quote from: Maladict on November 10, 2013, 12:31:10 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on November 09, 2013, 04:27:33 PM
Anyone know any great non-Schama books on the Dutch Republic? Looking for politics, religion, economics, science and military innovatioms more than culture. Also good books on Calvinism and associated Protestant movements more generally?

Jonathan Israel's book is the one most frequently mentioned along Schama's.
I haven't read it so can't comment much.
John Lothrop Motley, The Dutch Republic, in four volumes, is a great read. A little propagandistic, but it was the first work by a non-Dutch historian on the topic, and it's great stuff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 13, 2013, 05:26:08 PM
Finished Svenska kulter (Swedish Cults), a collection of Cthulhu Mythos stories set in Sweden at various times from the 18th century to the present. Pretty cool.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on November 13, 2013, 07:37:24 PM
I'm finishing up rereading my Glen Cook books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 14, 2013, 05:03:03 PM
Just started The Luminaries, which I am enjoying so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on November 15, 2013, 03:10:35 AM
Going to pick up Mike Tyson's Undisputed Truth for a change of pace.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on November 15, 2013, 07:14:53 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 14, 2013, 05:03:03 PM
Just started The Luminaries, which I am enjoying so far.

I'm about 300 pages in. Like it a lot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 15, 2013, 09:35:36 AM
Quote from: Gups on November 15, 2013, 07:14:53 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 14, 2013, 05:03:03 PM
Just started The Luminaries, which I am enjoying so far.

I'm about 300 pages in. Like it a lot.

QuoteThe book was described as "a dazzling feat of a novel" by The Observer.[4] It is unusual for being organized

... according to astrological principles, so that characters are not only associated with signs of the zodiac, or the sun and moon (the "luminaries" of the title), but interact with each other according to the predetermined movement of the heavens, while each of the novel's 12 parts decreases in length over the course of the book to mimic the moon waning through its lunar cycle.[5]

Yeah, that's a nifty style device;  I tried that with my bail bonds non-fiction, where all the characters interact with each other according to the predetermined movement of SSI and benefits payments, while each of the chapters got shorter to mimic the waning of available Independence Card funds through the month, but it looks like she got it in first, so good for her.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on November 15, 2013, 09:55:56 AM
Quote from: sbr on November 10, 2013, 12:48:44 PM

I'll have to give this another shot.  I like history podcasts, but I couldn't stand Carlin.  The material was fine but everything from his voice, to presentation, to everything else drove me crazy.

Lots of people like him so I will try again.

So it wasn't just me; I gave it a try and found it a bit grating.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 21, 2013, 01:55:31 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 15, 2013, 09:35:36 AM
Quote from: Gups on November 15, 2013, 07:14:53 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 14, 2013, 05:03:03 PM
Just started The Luminaries, which I am enjoying so far.

I'm about 300 pages in. Like it a lot.

QuoteThe book was described as "a dazzling feat of a novel" by The Observer.[4] It is unusual for being organized

... according to astrological principles, so that characters are not only associated with signs of the zodiac, or the sun and moon (the "luminaries" of the title), but interact with each other according to the predetermined movement of the heavens, while each of the novel's 12 parts decreases in length over the course of the book to mimic the moon waning through its lunar cycle.[5]

Yeah, that's a nifty style device;  I tried that with my bail bonds non-fiction, where all the characters interact with each other according to the predetermined movement of SSI and benefits payments, while each of the chapters got shorter to mimic the waning of available Independence Card funds through the month, but it looks like she got it in first, so good for her.

:lol:

Still reading through The Luminaries. It's sort of like as if David Mitchell or Italo Calvino were asked to write the script for Deadwood, set it in New Zealand, and told to leave out the cussing.  ;)

I'm really enjoying it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 21, 2013, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 21, 2013, 01:55:31 PM
I'm really enjoying it.

Added as #179 on my Kindle wishlist.  Plus still another 80+ on my paper wishlist.
Have to do another cull soon . . .
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 21, 2013, 02:36:39 PM
Mentioned in the SciFi thread that I'm also reading Middlemarch at the minute. I read it for A-Level and it's amazing the difference ten years can make. It's like a totally different book and seems a lot richer and deeper. I'm pausing almost every other page to think about something Eliot writes.

I liked it when I was studying, but I'm absolutely loving it now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 21, 2013, 02:37:58 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 21, 2013, 02:36:39 PM
Mentioned in the SciFi thread that I'm also reading Middlemarch at the minute. I read it for A-Level and it's amazing the difference ten years can make. It's like a totally different book and seems a lot richer and deeper. I'm pausing almost every other page to think about something Eliot writes.

I liked it when I was studying, but I'm absolutely loving it now.

Heh, maybe I'll have a go. I tried to pick it up as a teen and could not get into it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on November 24, 2013, 10:35:39 AM
Mark Helprin's In Sunlight and in Shadow

Beautiful. Moving. Stunning. A wonderful love story, but half the book, well a bit less, maybe a quarter of the book has WW2 action you guys will enjoy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 24, 2013, 10:55:11 AM
Quote from: Josephus on November 24, 2013, 10:35:39 AM
Mark Helprin's In Sunlight and in Shadow

Beautiful. Moving. Stunning. A wonderful love story, but half the book, well a bit less, maybe a quarter of the book has WW2 action you guys will enjoy.

Will check it out - I tend to like Helprin's stuff a lot.

Heh, this reminds me somewhat of my kid's reaction to romance: "that show was good, if you can overlook the (ugh) kissing".  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on November 24, 2013, 01:33:38 PM
If you like Helprin you'll like this for sure. i think it's his best (and his most overtly Jewish)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on November 24, 2013, 07:02:05 PM
I've read both The Blank Slate and Better Angels of our Nature by Pinker recently.  Opinions?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 24, 2013, 11:26:14 PM
Fun factoids from a NYT review of a book about 1927 in the US: in that year the US was adding more telephones than the UK had in total, and Kansas had more automobiles than France.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 25, 2013, 12:49:56 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 24, 2013, 11:26:14 PM
Fun factoids from a NYT review of a book about 1927 in the US: in that year the US was adding more telephones than the UK had in total, and Kansas had more automobiles than France.
Wow! :blink:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 25, 2013, 12:57:46 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 25, 2013, 12:49:56 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 24, 2013, 11:26:14 PM
Fun factoids from a NYT review of a book about 1927 in the US: in that year the US was adding more telephones than the UK had in total, and Kansas had more automobiles than France.
Wow! :blink:
Went on well until the last few decades. I've read similar stats about fridges and TVs in the 50s and 60s, not to mention indoor toilets.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 25, 2013, 01:18:08 AM
The point you might be missing Shelf is that Kansas is about the most nothing state there is.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 25, 2013, 01:31:56 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 25, 2013, 01:18:08 AM
The point you might be missing Shelf is that Kansas is about the most nothing state there is.
I realise, but it doesn't shock me because it kind of fits with what I'd read about the inter-war years in Europe. Most of Europe didn't have a roaring twenties of any kind. And lots of Europe was really impoverished until post-WW2. Cars were luxury playthings for the rich but way, way out of the reach of almost anyone else. From what I've read the only technology that was really widespread was the radio.

Europe didn't get the whole middle class prosperity and convenience thing until the late 50s at the earliest. That's why it was the trentes glorieouses and the age of 'never had it so good'.

It's not terribly related but it reminds me of my friend's (possibly late) granddad who was very rich and had a car before they introduced driving tests. Apparently all the people who had licenses then were just grandfathered in, no need to take a test :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on November 25, 2013, 02:31:57 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 25, 2013, 01:31:56 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 25, 2013, 01:18:08 AM
The point you might be missing Shelf is that Kansas is about the most nothing state there is.
I realise, but it doesn't shock me because it kind of fits with what I'd read about the inter-war years in Europe. Most of Europe didn't have a roaring twenties of any kind. And lots of Europe was really impoverished until post-WW2. Cars were luxury playthings for the rich but way, way out of the reach of almost anyone else. From what I've read the only technology that was really widespread was the radio.

Europe didn't get the whole middle class prosperity and convenience thing until the late 50s at the earliest. That's why it was the trentes glorieouses and the age of 'never had it so good'.

It's not terribly related but it reminds me of my friend's (possibly late) granddad who was very rich and had a car before they introduced driving tests. Apparently all the people who had licenses then were just grandfathered in, no need to take a test :lol:

We had similar license schemes in the US.  My grandmother had a driver's license but didn't actually know how to drive.  Never had driven anywhere.  She just mailed away for a license and received one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on November 25, 2013, 03:29:56 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on November 24, 2013, 07:02:05 PM
I've read both The Blank Slate and Better Angels of our Nature by Pinker recently.  Opinions?

Liked Better Angels a lot. Well-written, persausive, interesting throghout. Liked the historical material more than the psychological (where his agruments were often rather tenous)  and thought the stats parts were a bit tedious. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 25, 2013, 08:09:32 AM
I don't generally read biographies, but this sounds really interesting:
QuoteFrançois Mitterrand: The great deceiver
François Mitterrand's career was an extraordinary catalogue of political switches and personal cover-ups – but he remains arguably the most successful left-wing leader that western Europe has ever seen.
BY ANDREW ADONIS PUBLISHED 21 NOVEMBER 2013 8:43

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newstatesman.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2Ffullnode_image%2Farticles_2013%2Fpar46394_1.jpg&hash=0894bb016d36c447b45129687fa2caed72a8046f)
François Mitterand, then president of France, sits for a sculptor in the banquet hall of the Palais de l'Élysée in October 1983. Photo: ©Guy le Querrec/Magnum Photos

Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back.
John Maynard Keynes, The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money (1936)


Most political observers can trot out Keynes's remark but it does not follow that political leaders are mere ventriloquists. Even the most unintellectual and anti-intellectual have to decide to which academic scribbler or scribblers they are going to enslave themselves. And how politicians put different ideas together makes a critical difference to the politics they pursue. Just compare varieties of liberalism and conservatism – and communism and fascism – under different leaders.

Moreover, many of the most successful political leaders are not "exempt from any intellectual influence"; on the contrary, for some, intellectualism is a central part of their political personality and appeal. As the Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland once wrote, "People don't believe in ideas: they believe in people who believe in ideas."


All of this is prompted by grappling with the career of François Mitterrand, courtesy of Mitterrand: a Study in Ambiguity (Bodley Head, £30), an excellent new book by the former BBC Paris correspondent Philip Short. His previous subjects as a biographer were Pol Pot and Mao Zedong. An odd trio but, as with the other two, Short brings to the former French president great insight without undue sympathy, qualities admired by Mitterrand, who said the most essential attribute in politics is "indifference".

The reason for grappling with Mitterrand is simple enough: he is the most successful left-wing leader of any of the three leading western European countries (France, Britain and Germany), measured by longevity in power and arguably also by electoral dominance. A front-rank politician by the age of 30 in 1946 and a senior minister in successive governments of the Fourth Republic while in his thirties, he went on to lead today's Socialist Party in 1971, then to win two presidential elections (in 1981 and 1988) and two parliamentary elections. Having condemned Charles de Gaulle's strong Fifth Republic presidency as "a permanent coup d'état" when the general assumed power in the late 1950s, he occupied the post in full plenitude for 14 years (1981-95), ruling for longer than de Gaulle – longer indeed than any leader of France since Napoleon III – in a political career spanning half a century.

However, the explanation for Mitterrand's success is anything but simple; also complex are the lessons for today's left as it struggles to win and hold power across Europe, not least in France, where François Hollande evinces little of the mastery of Tonton ("Uncle").

Short's biography is subtitled A Study in Ambiguity but it could equally be described as "a study in deception", because there was nothing ambiguous about the massive falsehoods and carefully constructed but entirely bogus images that litter every part of Mitterrand's career. Short begins the biography with an electric account of the "observatory affair" of 1959, when Mitterrand faked an assassination attempt on himself as a ploy to regain the political initiative the year after de Gaulle buried the Fourth Republic and most of its political inmates. The fake was exposed and it is extraordinary that he ever recovered.

Yet the greatest deceptions were still to come. Throughout his presidency, he lied (and ordered his doctors to lie) about his health. Diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer within months of taking power in 1981 and expected to live for only three more years, he told his urologist: "It's a state secret; you are bound by this secret." When the cancer went into remission, he not only stood for re-election while maintaining the secret but struggled on for the full seven years although the cancer returned and, by the end, became undeniable.

His personal life was similarly full of falsehood. While his wife, Danielle, and their two sons were his public family, they coexisted with a secret second family of his mistress (who was 27 years younger than him) and their daughter, with Mitterrand shuttling between the two in Paris and the country, again unknown to the public until the end of his presidency. His daughter, Mazarine, was named after Cardinal Mazarin, Louis XIV's wily and secretive first minister, whose precepts for the politician were taken deeply to heart by her father: "Be sparing with your gestures, walk with measured steps . . . Simulate, dissimulate, trust nobody."

It is no surprise that it is hard to pin down what Mitterrand believed. Partly this is because his ideas changed so much and so often. Starting out as an official of the Vichy regime and an admirer of Philippe Pétain, he was elected in the Fourth Republic for a shifting array of parties of the centre right. As a minister in the mid-1950s, he was a voice not only of conservatism but of outright reaction and repression in respect of Algeria and the French colonies.

Throughout the 1960s, his big idea was anti-Gaullism. He championed liberalism in the face of overweening personal and presidential power. Socialism entered his vocabulary only as he sought a viable anti- and post- Gaullist political grouping, which, as a result of his artful machinations, came together in the Socialist Party in 1971.

Mitterrand then rose to power on the back of an alliance with the still-strong Communists. He fashioned this as the tribune of a leftism that included wholesale nationalisation, a war on the rich and a huge expansion of welfare spending without any regard for conventional economics, which he professed to despise.

This led to the "common programme", which was put into action in 1981. Elected on the rhetoric of a "complete rupture" with capitalism and the slogan "Change life", Mitterrand appointed Communist ministers to a pan-left coalition that embarked on the most radical and frenetic programme of nationalisation, state spending and cultural reform attempted by any western European government since the early postwar years.

Barely a year later, Mitterrand put most of this into rapid reverse. With the franc collapsing and the financial markets in revolt, economic orthodoxy returned, state spending was slashed and the Communists were ejected. Nationalisation was rolled back after the right won the parliamentary elections of 1986. Scotching the notion that he should resign in the face of this debacle, Mitterrand instead fashioned a new concept of "cohabitation" between a president of the left and a government of the right. He proceeded to outwit the then prime minister, Jacques Chirac, fighting him on the slogan of "Opening to the centre" in the 1988 presidential and parliamentary elections, while Chirac scrapped with Le Pen and the National Front – whose potency was largely a creation of Mitterrand's manoeuvre to change the electoral system to proportional representation before the 1986 elections, specifically to strengthen the far right in relation to the centre right.

Re-elected as a centrist, Mitterrand appointed a government under the centrist social democrat Michel Rocard, including a large number of non-aligned ministers and even a handful of centre-right former ministers, before succumbing to another "cohabitation", this time under Edouard Balladur (who had been the finance minister in the first "cohabitation"), which saw out his final two years of office.

"It was not in my interests to oppose the trend of public opinion," said Mitterrand, abdicating any role in leading opinion as he drifted, with increasing physical and political infirmity and growing controversy – not least about his Vichy past, coming fully into the open for the first time – to the end of his second term.

Shortly before his replacement as prime minister in 1991, Rocard described his rival and nemesis as "cynicism in its purest sense". During his 14 years in the Élysée, Mitterrand got through seven prime ministers, each the product of labyrinthine political calculations, the subtlety of which was often lost on the participants.

In all these manoeuvres, over five decades, ideology and political language were as often as not the servants of short-term political advantage. Simulate, dissimulate. Once he became a "socialist" after 1970, for instance, varieties of leftism were deployed to outwit party rivals on all sides and to make possible (and later to destroy) the alliance with the Communists.

The ceaseless shifting of Mitterrand's ideas is a dominant theme of Short's biography. Having sought out the essence of Mitterrand's credo as a lesson for left-wing rejuvenation, I am instead bewildered by the endlessly turning kaleidoscope. I cannot think of a modern democratic leader who has made so successful a career trading rival ideas and policies to suit immediate political convenience. In the British context, over the course of his career, he was Tony Benn, Clement Attlee, Harold Macmillan, Harold Wilson, Tony Blair and Enoch Powell, all rolled into one.


All of this ideological somersaulting was done with immense intellectual engagement and fine calibration. In Mitterrand, the academic scribbler was more the servant of the practical politician than vice versa. A big part of "brand Mitterrand" was an ostentatious intellectualism giving apparent depth and sincerity to whichever creed he was peddling at any given time, however great the difference with the last one.

Mitterrand said he needed to read for two hours or more a day "to oxygenate the brain". Many of his major shifts in ideas were accompanied by a book or pamphlet by the maestro – including his remarkable 47-page "Letter to all the French", written as a manifesto for his "opening to the centre" for his 1988 re-election, advertised with little modesty as covering "all the big subjects which are worth discussing and mulling over between French men and women". ("The night before it was to be published [he] stayed up till 3am at the printing press correcting the proofs, like a neophyte brooding over a first novel" – a brilliant detail, as are Short's revelations that during tedious cabinet presentations, Mitterrand annotated antiquarian book catalogues and on presidential flights would sometimes ask the pilot to circle before landing so he could finish a chapter.)

Is Mitterrand's legacy an object lesson in intellectual manoeuvring, with no inner core, as the method of a politician supreme? It is more than that in four respects. First, however labyrinthine his methods, there is a substantial progressive legacy from which the French left takes inspiration, including the abolition of the death penalty, significantly raising the minimum wage, equal rights for women and minorities, decentralisation and numerous beneficial grands projets.

Second, the 1982-83 reversal had the effect of demonstrating to the European left that "socialism in one country" didn't work; pragmatic social democracy is the successful face of "Mitterrandism".


There wasn't the clear break with the doctrinaire past of the German SPD in the late 1950s and the British Labour Party in the mid-1990s, which is part of François Hollande's problem as he tries to play the centre and an unreconstructed left together. Yet the post-Mitterrand French Socialist Party is as broad a church as its British and German counterparts and knows how to govern from the centre.

Third, there was a Mitterrand core: peace with Germany and projects to entrench European peace and security, from the European Communities in the 1950s to the single currency in the 1990s. A survivor of European war and its horrors – including time as a prisoner of war – Mitterrand never allowed the central pillars of a pro-German and pro-US foreign policy to become part of the game of "simulate, dissimulate". Ironically, it was de Gaulle who played dangerously in this arena.

With Communists in his government and the left triumphant, Mitterrand's first move in 1981 was to assure Ronald Reagan in unequivocal words and actions that France was a reliable ally. He did the same with Margaret Thatcher during the Falklands war a year later and also with Helmut Kohl, after an initial wobble, on German reunification. It was ambiguity at home but clarity abroad – and clarity in the cause of European peace and stability. Hence the most enduring image of Mitterrand: hand in hand with Helmut Kohl before two huge wreaths at Verdun in 1984 at a ceremony to seal Franco-German reconciliation.

Fourth, throughout his life and career, Mitterrand had a patrician sympathy with the underdog. Although he was the son of a stationmaster who inherited a family vinegar business, he served in the ranks in the war, having failed the competition for a commission, and developed a contempt for hierarchy and authority (besides his own) and a social sympathy for the less fortunate that was genuine and lasting. His political initiation – and his early political power base – was in organisations for returning prisoners of war. This need not have led him to the socialist left but it helped him accomplish the transition with an authenticity born to some degree from experience.

No feats of intellectual and political gymnastics can substitute or detract from personal experience. In Mitterrand's case, it was his intimate experience of a France prostrate, impoverished and divided, that dominated his twenties and shaped him fundamentally.

Philip Short suggests another attribute of Mitterrand the leader: natural authority rooted in an "inner solitude" – "a part of [his] being that was locked, inaccessible to others, which is one of the characteristics of uncommon leaders everywhere" – and which came in part from a long period in the political wilderness (the 23 years from 1958 to 1981). He draws the parallel with de Gaulle in the wilderness in the 1950s; Churchill in the 1930s also comes to mind.

Perhaps. Yet François Mitterrand showed himself to be a notable leader as a prisoner of war and an organiser of fellow returnees long before his wilderness years. Maybe it owed more to Cardinal Mazarin, whose further advice for politicians was to "maintain a posture at all times which is full of dignity . . . Each day spend a moment studying how you should respond to the events which might befall you."

In the last months of his life, his doctor told him he was a mixture of Machiavelli, Don Corleone, Casanova and the Little Prince. When Mitterrand enquired, "In what proportions?" the physician replied, "That depends on which day."

When I was reading the biography of de Gaulle, which is pretty good, I was amazed at how many times he'd just disappear. Not just in terms of his wilderness in the 50s but even when President. During tense political moments he would disappear for a weekend in Colombey-les-Deux-Eglises. It seemed very military. He'd tactically withdraw, survey the scene and, normally, on his return counter-attack where least expected.

I feel sorry for politicians now who couldn't possibly do that. I always wonder given all they've got to do as ever, with the extra pressure of 24 hour media, how they ever get the space to step away and gather themselves. Even if they tried it it'd probably end up like that Thick of It Tory team-building weekend :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 25, 2013, 08:26:59 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 25, 2013, 08:09:32 AM
I feel sorry for politicians now who couldn't possibly do that. I always wonder given all they've got to do as ever, with the extra pressure of 24 hour media, how they ever get the space to step away and gather themselves.

I dunno, Duyba had no problem tactically withdrawing, surveying the scene and on his return counter-attack where least expected.
 
QuoteGeorge W. Bush holds the record for the most presidential vacation time.  During his two terms, Bush took 879 vacation days, which included 77 total trips to his Crawford, Tex., ranch. Nine of those trips were taken in his first year as president.

DeGaulle's got nothing when it comes to the sheer genius of Dubya's political guile and cunning.  A true master of his craft.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on November 25, 2013, 08:53:41 AM
I miss Dubya.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on November 25, 2013, 10:22:19 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 25, 2013, 08:09:32 AM
Even if they tried it it'd probably end up like that Thick of It Tory team-building weekend

Yes, and how!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 27, 2013, 08:14:05 AM
Traffic was so goddamned bad yesterday, I spun off into Pit Row to kill some time at the local Barnes & Nobles, and after perving through "New Paranormal Teen Romance", I was thumbing through The Generals by Thomas Ricks--the WP correspondent who wrote Fiasco and who blogs on FP--and he really takes a rather severe approach towards most of the modern post-war generals and American generalship, well, in general.  Trying to figure out how, in the premier military machine in the world, why it could produce such a fantastic junior officer corps, only and with rare exception to never see it elevated to command.  And, as he wrote on his blog, "I was puzzled by how the same U.S. Army that was so quick to relieve during World War II was so slow to relieve in Iraq, and it made me wonder if lack of relief is liked to lack of accountability -- and most importantly, if lack of accountability leads to lack of adaptivness."

Some good generals:  O.P. Smith (never truly acknowledged, even by the USMC), Ridgway and Abrams (who to the best of their abilities admirably tried to clean up their predecessors' political and military messes, respectively), and Betrayeus.
Some bad generals: Taylor, Westmoreland, Tommy Franks.   Really takes a dump on Maxwell Taylor.   Not that I disagree, but Taylor's chairmanship of the JCS was a little more complex than simply politicizing the position.  yeah, he manipulated the POTUSes, but he also protected them from the agendas of goofs like LeMay.
Even takes a few shots at Stormin' Norman and Colin Powell, who like so many that served in Vietnam as junior officers, were more products of the by-then indoctrinated post-Vietnam corporate risk aversion than solutions to it.

Big premises: George C. Marshall's established professional standards and demands on generalship devolved as the DoD increasingly adopted "Corporate America" management methodologies in the '50s and '60s, (hello, Mr. McNamara!) resulting in micromanagement and risk aversion (hell, we knew that);  and that the generals don't get fired for incompetency or bad fits to their commands as much as they're fired for personal moral issues or allowed to finish their tours like "tenured professors", whether they're up to the task or not (read: Sanchez).  Because firing for incompetency or being relieved of command because of square peg-round hole concerns makes things look bad.

Fun facts:  George C. Marshall fired over 600 officers before the US went to war, and "of the 42 senior officers who in 1941 commanded units at the division level or higher in the Louisiana Maneuvers, the testing ground for the Army's upper-level leadership, only 11 went on to command in wartime."  Fired something like 16 division commanders during WW2.

May have to go back and buy it so I can finish it.  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 02, 2013, 11:32:56 PM
 :yeah:

THE VIAZ'MA CATASTROPHE, 1941: The Red Army's Disastrous Stand against Operation Typhoon

QuoteThis book describes one of the most terrible tragedies of the Second World War and the events preceding it. The horrible miscalculations made by the Stavka of the Soviet Supreme High Command and the Front commands led in October 1941 to the deaths and imprisonment of hundreds of thousands of their own people. Until recently, the magnitude of the defeats suffered by the Red Army at Viaz'ma and Briansk were simply kept hushed up. For the first time, in this book a full picture of the combat operations that led to this tragedy are laid out in detail, using previously unknown or little-used documents.

The author was driven to write this book after his long years of fruitless search to learn what happened to his father Colonel N.I. Lopukhovsky, the commander of the 120th Howitzer Artillery Regiment, who disappeared together with his unit in the maelstrom of Operation Typhoon. He became determined to break the official silence surrounding the military disaster on the approaches to Moscow in the autumn of 1941.

In the present edition, the author additionally introduces documents from German military archives, which will doubtlessly interest not only scholars, but also students of the Eastern Front of the Second World War. Lopukhovsky substantiates his position on the matter of the true extent of the losses of the Red Army in men and equipment, which greatly exceeded the official data. In the Epilogue, he briefly discusses the searches he has conducted with the aim of revealing the circumstances surrounding the deaths of Soviet soldiers, who to this point have been listed among the missing-in-action - including his own father. The narrative is enhanced by numerous photographs, color maps and tables.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on December 13, 2013, 04:40:12 PM
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea

A lengthy discussion of fish interrupted on occasion by some story about a submarine.  If there was ever a novel written for The Larch, this is it.   ;)

Still a classic, though I had forgotten how much of the novel is spent describing marine biology and oceanographic science.  I had also forgotten that Ned Land was Canadian :Canuck:.  I'm pretty sure the translation I had when I was young had them fight a giant squid; but it's an octopus (poulpe) in the original.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on December 16, 2013, 11:53:49 PM
The Disaster Artist is wonderful.  Completely, totally wonderful.  One of the funniest things I've ever read.  Tommy Wiseau might be the weirdest person in history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on December 17, 2013, 09:49:34 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on December 16, 2013, 11:53:49 PM
The Disaster Artist is wonderful.  Completely, totally wonderful.  One of the funniest things I've ever read.  Tommy Wiseau might be the weirdest person in history.

I enjoyed it quite a bit and it did go a long way to explaining "The Room."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 17, 2013, 09:54:58 AM
There's an explanation for that ... thing? Mind you, I only know it from exhaustive internet reviews (Nostalgia Critic, Obscurus Lupa, mostly).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on December 17, 2013, 10:00:52 AM
Reading Das Boot on my way to Wilhelmshaven. :nerd:
It's pretty good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on December 17, 2013, 10:30:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 17, 2013, 09:54:58 AM
There's an explanation for that ... thing? Mind you, I only know it from exhaustive internet reviews (Nostalgia Critic, Obscurus Lupa, mostly).

So far as there can be an explanation.  Greg Sestero (Mark from the film as well as the production line manager) co-wrote the book.  Spellus is right; Tommy Wiseau (the writer/director/lead actor/producer) is one very strange person.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 18, 2013, 09:06:45 PM
Reading

The Name of the Wind by Rothfuss

Very good so far
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on December 18, 2013, 09:13:47 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 18, 2013, 09:06:45 PM
Reading

The Name of the Wind by Rothfuss

Very good so far
Marty Stu, thine ship hath come in.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/04/11

But yes, it's very, very good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on December 19, 2013, 06:56:15 AM
First half of Name of the Wind is great. Then it gets boring.

Reading "the Stars our Destination". Excellent so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on December 19, 2013, 12:27:13 PM
I found the first half of The Name of The Wind to be boring enough to not read any further.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 19, 2013, 12:30:31 PM
It's no She's Like The Wind.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 19, 2013, 01:50:58 PM
I've started with "A Splendid Exchange" a history of world trade.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on December 19, 2013, 02:37:23 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 19, 2013, 01:50:58 PM
I've started with "A Splendid Exchange" a history of world trade.

Please let us know if you would recommend it. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on December 19, 2013, 03:07:34 PM
Just read The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers.

Now, that is one fucking strange book. In a good way.  :D

Thinking over the plot, it should read like a mess, but it hangs together quite well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 25, 2013, 05:49:01 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 19, 2013, 02:37:23 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 19, 2013, 01:50:58 PM
I've started with "A Splendid Exchange" a history of world trade.

Please let us know if you would recommend it.

Will, do but it may be a few weeks/months ... I do most my reading on my morning commute which takes 15 minutes.  :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 25, 2013, 05:50:59 AM
A book recommendation on facebook from my oldest sister (not to me, but to my other sisters):

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ALD1DIE/ref=r_soa_w_d

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fd202m5krfqbpi5.cloudfront.net%2Fbooks%2F1355165165l%2F16302175.jpg&hash=eb3b46cb26f83ba44406b23997a72253eef2d643)

QuoteWhen he was twelve, his name was Branan Strickland. He was the heir to the Wardenship of Inglewood, a title to govern a Royal Forest and the land around it. But Branan's father was an abusive sod, beating Branan and his mother for sheer sport.

Until the night when his father's fist landed on the side of his mother's head - a wound that would kill her in a few short hours. Devastated, Branan spent those last hours with her. Just when he thought his world couldn't shatter any more, his mother told him the truth of his heritage.

Branan was not Strickland's son, he was the son of a Scottish Laird, Raulf MacTavish. Strickland had murdered Branan's true sire and forced his mother into marriage.

Raina MacTavish had just learned she was breeding when Strickland killed the man she loved more than life. Had she not carried Branan, she would have willingly died. Raina had told no one but Raulf of her breeding. After Strickland bedded her, a couple of months later, Raina announced her pregnancy. She did so only because she feared if Strickland knew Branan's true sire, the blackguard would slay her babe - the last link to her beloved husband.

But now she is dying. Raina knows she must tell Branan the truth. Her heart grieves, she can no longer protect him, but there is a family nearby who once called Raulf and Raina friend.

Raina also knows Branan is growing into the spitting image of his true sire. Soon, Strickland will see his old enemy staring back at him.

Branan has one chance to reclaim what was stolen from him, his title and his father's stolen sword, a huge Scottish claymore with an emerald set in the pommel and a thistle engraved on its hilt. He knows he must learn the ways of a knight and grow stronger. But Strickland discovers the boy's heritage and tries to kill him.

Now on the run and wounded, Branan fears Strickland will catch him. He seeks cover in a forest when an intriguing lass with bright blue eyes finds him. To his shock, the girl knows the forest better than anyone. Her name is Catriona and she is part of the family his mother told him about. The girl leads him to safety.

Branan's trials are only beginning, while he finds a brief respite with Catriona's family, Strickland does not give up his quest. Branan is forced to flee to his father's lands in Scotland. He abandons Catriona in the dead of night and leaves his beloved foster family behind.

10 years later, Branan's foster-brother, Gavin, searches for Branan in Scotland. Gavin finds him and tells Branan, if he wishes to reclaim his legacy, the time to act is now. But Gavin has more news and Branan is devastated again when he learns Catriona has been betrothed to another man.

But Branan's his heart is not prepared for what greets him when he returns to England. The home of Branan's foster family and Gavin's parents, has been burned to the ground. In the ashes, Gavin finds his father's signet ring.

Catriona...what has happened to her? Many of the local villagers believe her dead as well, but rumors abound, one woman may have escaped fire to flee to the forest....

:bleeding: :bleeding: :bleeding:

4.3 stars on Amazon (out of 85 reviews). 5 ratings at 1 or 2 stars.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 02:25:24 PM
Bought Marius B. Jansen's The Making Of Modern Japan. 1600 to 2000. Anyone read it?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 03, 2014, 11:32:53 PM
Exciting upcoming year for 2014. Pre-ordered some very interesting titles from Russian and East European authors. :yeah:

QuoteStalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army from Kursk to Berlin: Volume 1: January 1943-June 1944 Hardcover – by Igor Nebolsin Hardcover: 504 pages
Publisher: Helion and Company (April 2014)
Language: English

This is the first detailed combat history of any Soviet unit available in the English language known to the author. The 2nd Tank Army was not an ordinary force; by 1945 it was an elite Guards formation which played a decisive role in the Soviet offensive operations of that year and whose tanks were the first to enter Berlin's streets. The Army commander, Colonel-General Semen Bogdanov, became a Marshal of Armored Troops and was promoted to the position of Chief Commander of all armored and tank units of the USSR shortly after the war, and remained in this position until 1953. 2nd Guards Tank Army remained in Germany until 1993, a period of 48 years. It is the only Soviet Tank Army of the war that still exists today, now named 2nd Guards Army.

This study is based on the rarely available operational documents of the Army from the Central Archives of the Russian Defense Ministry and provides an analysis of every battle it fought in World War II. This includes Operation Citadel North (Kursk), Sevsk, Cherkassy, Tyrgul-Frumos and Jassy, Warsaw, Vistula-Oder, Pomerania (including Sonnenwende) and Berlin. What also differentiates this book is that it was created in cooperation with the senior army general (Anatoly Shvebig) who was an active participant in all the Army's engagements. Another unique point is that the combat operations are covered from both sides in a scope and scale that has never previously been attempted. The day by day coverage of events, honest views of the Army's commanders, full statistical data (including unit strengths, movements, and casualties for each operation from both Russian and German points of view), and the 'human element' based on the exciting firsthand reminiscences of Soviet tank officers all make this study an incredibly valuable source of information on tank battles fought on the Eastern Front 1943-1945. According to Major-General Anatoly Svebig, deputy commander of 12th Guards Tank Corps within the 2nd Guards Tank Army, this is the best study on any Soviet unit he has ever seen in his long life!

Volume 1 focuses on the first half of the Army's service in the Great Patriotic War. 2nd Tank Army was created in January 1943. In spring and summer of 1943 it was engaged in the fierce battles at Sevsk and Kursk. Combat experience was heavily paid for in blood. The Army played a critical role in containing a strike of the German III. Panzerkorps in February 1944, aimed at rescuing units in the Cherkassy pocket. In March-April 1944 2nd GTA carried out a deep raid to Uman and was amongst the first Russian units that crossed the Romanian border. In May-June 1944 Army was engaged in combats at Tyrgul Frumos and Jassy against strong German armored forces belonging to 'Grossdeutschland' and 24. Panzer-Division. The text is fully supported by specially commissioned color maps and an extensive selection of photographs, many from private collections in Russia. Volume 2 will provide a detailed record of the Army for the remainder of World War II, including its elevation to Guards status later in 1944.

QuoteTomb of the Panzerwaffe: The Defeat of the Sixth SS Panzer Army in Hungary 1945 Hardcover – March 1, 2014
by Aleksei Isaev , Maksim Kolomiets


In March 1945 the German Wehrmacht undertook its final attempt to change the course of the war by launching a counteroffensive in the area of Lake Balaton, Hungary. Here, the best panzer forces of the Third Reich and the elite of the Panzerwaffe were assembled - the panzer divisions SS Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking and others, staffed by ardent believers in Nazism and armed with the most up-to-date combat equipment, including up to 900 tanks and self-propelled guns.

At the time, this was considered a secondary axis for the Red Army, and thus the troops of the 3rd Ukrainian Front had to stop the German counteroffensive with their own forces and could not count upon reinforcements from the Stavka Reserve, which were needed for the decisive storming of Berlin. Relying upon their combat skill and rich combat experience, the Soviet troops carried out this task with honor, stopping the tidal wave of German armor and inflicting a decisive defeat and enormous, irreplaceable losses upon the enemy. The defeat of the Sixth SS Panzer Army became a genuine catastrophe for Germany, and Balaton became the tomb of the Panzerwaffe.

In this book, penned by two leading Russian military historians, this major defeat suffered by the Wehrmacht has been described and analyzed for the first time using data from both Soviet and German archives. It focuses not only on Operation Spring Awakening, but also describes the preceding Konrad offensives conducted by the Germans in the effort to come to the aid of the encircled and desperate German and fascist Hungarian defenders of Budapest. This edition is lavishly illustrated with over a hundred rare photographs of destroyed or disabled German armor taken shortly after the battle by a Soviet inspection team, besides other photographs and specially commissioned color maps.


QuoteDays of Battle: Armoured Operations North of the River Danube, Hungary 1944-45 Hardcover
by Nortbert Számvéber 


Days of Battle describes a hitherto neglected part of the military history of Hungary during World War II. Dr Norbert Számvéber the presents detailed accounts of four important clashes of German-Hungarian and Soviet armor north of the river Danube, in the southern territory of the historical Upper Hungary (part of Hungary between 1938 and 1945, at the present time now part of Slovakia) in three separate studies.

The first is an account of the battle between the Ipoly and Garam rivers during the second half of December 1944, in which the élite Hungarian Division "Szent László" saw action for the first time.

The second study is about the fierce tank battle of Komárom, fought between the 6-22 January 1945. This was an integral part of the Battle for Budapest, parallel in time with Operation "Konrad".

The third part of the book describes the combat during the German Operation "Südwind" in February 1945 and the Soviet attack launched in the direction of Bratislava in March 1945.

The author, chief of Hungary's military archives, has based his research firmly on files and documentation from German, Hungarian and Soviet sources. The book's authoritative text is supported by photographs and color battle maps. This is a very important new study that throws much-needed light on armored warfare on the Eastern Front during the final months of the war.

QuoteThe Sword Behind The Shield: A Combat History of the German Efforts to Relieve Budapest 1945 - Operation 'Konrad' I, III, III Hardcover – June 1, 2014 by Norbert Számvéber 

The history of the Hungarian theater of war from late August 1944 to the end of March 1945 is a special chapter of the history of the Eastern Front during World War II. The Soviet 2nd and 3rd Ukrainian Fronts had encircled Budapest by Christmas 1944, after very heavy combat. However, this was just the first phase of a period of intense combat, as Adolf Hitler and the German High Command planned the relief of the Hungarian capital.

The reinforced IV. SS-Panzerkorps was designated for this task and its units were transferred rapidly from Polish territory to Hungary. Two operational plans were swiftly devised by the Germans, before they chose the code name "Konrad". This was an armored strike from the Komárom region through the mountains south of the river Danube to the Buda side of the Hungarian capital. The first day of Operation "Konrad" was 1 January 1945, and marked the beginning of a series of fierce clashes that lasted for nearly six weeks, a very special period in the history of the Battle for Budapest. Both sides employed significant numbers of armored forces in these battles, including heavy tanks.

The German-Hungarian forces tried to break through to Budapest three times in three different locations, but each time they struck relocated Soviet tank, mechanized, rifle, cavalry, artillery and antitank units from 3rd Ukrainian Front's reserve. In January 1945, furious tank battles developed in the eastern part of Transdanubia in Hungary, especially in the areas of Bajna, Zsámbék, Zámoly, Pettend, Vereb, Dunapentele and Székesfehérvár. After the third and strongest German attempt (code-named "Konrad 3"), which also failed, the Soviet troops launched a counter offensive in late January 1945 to encircle and eliminate the advancing enemy forces. But the German armored Kampfgruppen managed to blunt the Soviet attack, which eventually wound down and fragmented, mirroring the German offensives before it.

This work is based mainly on German, Soviet and Hungarian archival records (e.g. war diaries, daily and after-action reports, etc.). In addition, a number of rare unit histories, contemporary private diaries and reliable personal memoirs, from generals to enlisted men, have also been used by the author. The combat actions are extremely detailed, and provide a day-by-day account. The author analyzes the command and control systems at operational and tactical levels and the losses of both sides. For a better understanding of the events the book includes many photographs and detailed specially commissioned color battle maps.

QuoteMarshal K.K. Rokossovsky: The Red Army's Gentleman Commander Hardcover – April 1, 2014
by Boris Sokolov


The author Boris Sokolov offers this first objective and intriguing biography of Marshal Konstantin Konstantinovich Rokossovsky, who is widely considered one of the Red Army's top commanders in the Second World War. Yet even though he brilliantly served the harsh Stalinist system, Rokossovsky himself became a victim of it with his arrest, beatings and imprisonment between 1937 and 1940.

The author analyzes all of Rokossovsky's military operations, in both the Russian Civil War and the Second World War, paying particular attention to the problem of establishing the real casualties suffered by both armies in the main battles where Rokossovsky took part, as well as on the Eastern Front as a whole. Rokossovsky played a prominent role in the battles for Smolensk, Moscow, Stalingrad, Kursk, Belorussia, Poland, East Prussia and Pomerania. While praising Rokossovsky's masterful generalship, the author does not shy away from criticizing the nature of Soviet military art and strategy, in which the guiding principle was "at all costs" and little value was placed on holding down casualties. This discussion extends to the painful topic of the many atrocities against civilians perpetrated by Soviet soldiers, including Rokossovsky's own troops.

A highly private man, Rokossovsky disliked discussing his personal life. With the help of family records and interviews, including the original, uncensored draft of the Marshal's memoirs, the author reveals the numerous dualities in Rokossovsky's life. Despite his imprisonment and beatings he endured, Rokossovsky never wavered in his loyalty to Stalin, yet also never betrayed his colleagues. Though a Stalinist, he was also a gentleman widely admired for his courtesy and chivalry. A dedicated family man, women were drawn to him, and he took a 'campaign wife' during the war. Though born in 1894 in Poland, Rokossovsky maintained that he was really born in Russia in 1896. This Polish/Russian duality in Rokossovsky's identity hampered his career and became particularly acute during the Warsaw uprising in 1944 and his later service as Poland's Defense Minister. Thus, the author ably portrays a fascinating man and commander, who became a marshal of two countries, yet who was not fully embraced by either.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 04, 2014, 03:00:44 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 03, 2014, 11:32:53 PM
Exciting upcoming year for 2014. Pre-ordered some very interesting titles from Russian and East European authors. :yeah:


QuoteTomb of the Panzerwaffe: The Defeat of the Sixth SS Panzer Army in Hungary 1945 Hardcover – March 1, 2014
by Aleksei Isaev , Maksim Kolomiets


In March 1945 the German Wehrmacht undertook its final attempt to change the course of the war by launching a counteroffensive in the area of Lake Balaton, Hungary. Here, the best panzer forces of the Third Reich and the elite of the Panzerwaffe were assembled - the panzer divisions SS Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking and others, staffed by ardent believers in Nazism and armed with the most up-to-date combat equipment, including up to 900 tanks and self-propelled guns.

At the time, this was considered a secondary axis for the Red Army, and thus the troops of the 3rd Ukrainian Front had to stop the German counteroffensive with their own forces and could not count upon reinforcements from the Stavka Reserve, which were needed for the decisive storming of Berlin. Relying upon their combat skill and rich combat experience, the Soviet troops carried out this task with honor, stopping the tidal wave of German armor and inflicting a decisive defeat and enormous, irreplaceable losses upon the enemy. The defeat of the Sixth SS Panzer Army became a genuine catastrophe for Germany, and Balaton became the tomb of the Panzerwaffe.

In this book, penned by two leading Russian military historians, this major defeat suffered by the Wehrmacht has been described and analyzed for the first time using data from both Soviet and German archives. It focuses not only on Operation Spring Awakening, but also describes the preceding Konrad offensives conducted by the Germans in the effort to come to the aid of the encircled and desperate German and fascist Hungarian defenders of Budapest. This edition is lavishly illustrated with over a hundred rare photographs of destroyed or disabled German armor taken shortly after the battle by a Soviet inspection team, besides other photographs and specially commissioned color maps.

:huh:  That's written as if the Germans weren't already finished by that time. Even if they hadn't launched Watch on the Rhine and used all the men and resources they saved there to bolster Spring Awakening the offensive still would have failed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 04, 2014, 03:40:00 AM
I'm starting to get the feeling Before is a Red Army fanboi.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 04, 2014, 07:17:13 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 04, 2014, 03:40:00 AM
I'm starting to get the feeling Before is a Red Army fanboi.

East Front fanboy. He's the dude clutching a tattered copy of War in the East.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on January 04, 2014, 04:05:56 PM
Are Cornelius Ryan's WWII books (i.e. The Longest Day, A Bridge Too Far, The Last Battle) worth reading? Do they still hold up today?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 04, 2014, 05:08:30 PM
Quote from: Kleves on January 04, 2014, 04:05:56 PM
Are Cornelius Ryan's WWII books (i.e. The Longest Day, A Bridge Too Far, The Last Battle) worth reading? Do they still hold up today?

IMO yes
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 04, 2014, 05:34:38 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 04, 2014, 03:00:44 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 03, 2014, 11:32:53 PM
Exciting upcoming year for 2014. Pre-ordered some very interesting titles from Russian and East European authors. :yeah:


QuoteTomb of the Panzerwaffe: The Defeat of the Sixth SS Panzer Army in Hungary 1945 Hardcover – March 1, 2014
by Aleksei Isaev , Maksim Kolomiets


In March 1945 the German Wehrmacht undertook its final attempt to change the course of the war by launching a counteroffensive in the area of Lake Balaton, Hungary. Here, the best panzer forces of the Third Reich and the elite of the Panzerwaffe were assembled - the panzer divisions SS Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking and others, staffed by ardent believers in Nazism and armed with the most up-to-date combat equipment, including up to 900 tanks and self-propelled guns.

At the time, this was considered a secondary axis for the Red Army, and thus the troops of the 3rd Ukrainian Front had to stop the German counteroffensive with their own forces and could not count upon reinforcements from the Stavka Reserve, which were needed for the decisive storming of Berlin. Relying upon their combat skill and rich combat experience, the Soviet troops carried out this task with honor, stopping the tidal wave of German armor and inflicting a decisive defeat and enormous, irreplaceable losses upon the enemy. The defeat of the Sixth SS Panzer Army became a genuine catastrophe for Germany, and Balaton became the tomb of the Panzerwaffe.

In this book, penned by two leading Russian military historians, this major defeat suffered by the Wehrmacht has been described and analyzed for the first time using data from both Soviet and German archives. It focuses not only on Operation Spring Awakening, but also describes the preceding Konrad offensives conducted by the Germans in the effort to come to the aid of the encircled and desperate German and fascist Hungarian defenders of Budapest. This edition is lavishly illustrated with over a hundred rare photographs of destroyed or disabled German armor taken shortly after the battle by a Soviet inspection team, besides other photographs and specially commissioned color maps.

:huh:  That's written as if the Germans weren't already finished by that time. Even if they hadn't launched Watch on the Rhine and used all the men and resources they saved there to bolster Spring Awakening the offensive still would have failed.

Your statement is the product of hindsight.

The same could be said of Operation Sonnenwende (planned by Guderian BTW) in the Pomerania area. Hindsight would tell us it was due to fail and could not possibly succeeded in its' aims (The relief of Kustrin). When in fact this offensive worried Stalin and Zhukov enough to postpone the Berlin offensive for a couple of months while the Russian cleared their north flank.

or

The same could be said about Citadel's failure. The germans had no reason to believe a summer offensive would not penetrate the soviet tactical defenses within hours, operation defenses in days, and the strategic depths in a couple of weeks. Why would they think any different. They did it in the Summer of '41 and '42. They just didnt know what to do, when they did got into the strategic depths. Hindsight tells us that the Russian's had been learning, evolving in regards to organization, operations and planning very well up to that time (summer '43) and that Stalingrad had a major impact on Citadel's failure too.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 04, 2014, 05:54:58 PM
Tim, here's a little light reading about Operation Sudwind in Feb '45. Actually successful operation.

http://www.druhasvetova.sk/OLD/view.php?nazevclanku=struggle-for-the-hron-bridgehead-and-operation-sudwind&cisloclanku=2007120002
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 04, 2014, 06:33:21 PM
Were really that many German officers that believed the war could be won by March of 1945?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 04, 2014, 06:36:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 04, 2014, 06:33:21 PM
Were really that many German officers that believed the war could be won by March of 1945?

I bet that asskisser nazi Schorner might have.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 04, 2014, 06:40:08 PM
Totally winnable. All they needed was a working time machine.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 04, 2014, 06:41:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 04, 2014, 06:36:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 04, 2014, 06:33:21 PM
Were really that many German officers that believed the war could be won by March of 1945?

I bet that asskisser nazi Schorner might have.

I wonder if anyone ever called him "Schnorrer", (Yiddish for bum).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 04, 2014, 06:52:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 25, 2013, 05:50:59 AM
A book recommendation on facebook from my oldest sister (not to me, but to my other sisters):

Really sad when the promo blurb is cringe-worthy. Learning she was breeding and what not.

Though at least Ms. Loch is making money. -_-
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 04, 2014, 07:21:32 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 04, 2014, 06:33:21 PM
Were really that many German officers that believed the war could be won by March of 1945?

Probably not.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 07, 2014, 08:01:05 PM
Days of Battle: Armoured Operations North of the River Danube, Hungary 1944-45 Hardcover
by Nortbert Számvéber (Chief of Hungarian Military Archives)
264 pages
Quality hard cover book with gloss pages and good maps of the areas covered.

This is a operational narrative of Axis and Soviet actions between 11 Dec '44 to 31 Mar '45 broken into four areas.
1. Battles between the Ipoly and Garam rivers 11-31 Dec '44.
2. Actions around Komarom 6-22 Jan '45
3. Operation Sudwind 17-24 Feb '45  :yeah:
4. Soviet- Romanian attacks in the Bratislava-Brno area 25-31 Mar '45.

It also covers the actions of the Hungarian Szent Laszlo division in regards to the areas covered. You will not find any of the Konrad Offensives, Lake Balaton Offensive or the Siege of Budapest which is good. I would class this book as not for the casual reader/enthusiast. You will need to be a least familiar with the big picture operations, units, and places in Hungry at the time or you'll be lost. You will not find heart warming stories of the east front nor is this a memoir.

4.5/5

Not recommended for the casual/ part time east front reader.     
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 07, 2014, 08:08:09 PM
East front sucks
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 07, 2014, 08:12:43 PM
Why don't you read a Bulge or D-Day book you commie.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 07, 2014, 08:22:28 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 07, 2014, 08:12:43 PM
Why don't you read a Bulge or D-Day book you commie.

How drabbingly boring. Maybe a good one on Op. Goodwood in the near future.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 07, 2014, 08:31:28 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 07, 2014, 08:22:28 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 07, 2014, 08:12:43 PM
Why don't you read a Bulge or D-Day book you commie.

How drabbingly boring. Maybe a good one on Op. Goodwood in the near future.

Monty sucks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 07, 2014, 08:34:16 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 07, 2014, 08:01:05 PM

It also covers the actions of the Hungarian Szent Laszlo division in regards to the areas covered. You will not find any of the Konrad Offensives, Lake Balaton Offensive or the Siege of Budapest which is good. I would class this book as not for the casual reader/enthusiast. You will need to be a least familiar with the big picture operations, units, and places in Hungry at the time or you'll be lost. You will not find heart warming stories of the east front nor is this a memoir.

Are there any such stories? :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 07, 2014, 08:35:35 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 07, 2014, 08:31:28 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 07, 2014, 08:22:28 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 07, 2014, 08:12:43 PM
Why don't you read a Bulge or D-Day book you commie.

How drabbingly boring. Maybe a good one on Op. Goodwood in the near future.

Monty sucks.

Agreed
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 07, 2014, 08:39:01 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 07, 2014, 08:34:16 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 07, 2014, 08:01:05 PM

It also covers the actions of the Hungarian Szent Laszlo division in regards to the areas covered. You will not find any of the Konrad Offensives, Lake Balaton Offensive or the Siege of Budapest which is good. I would class this book as not for the casual reader/enthusiast. You will need to be a least familiar with the big picture operations, units, and places in Hungry at the time or you'll be lost. You will not find heart warming stories of the east front nor is this a memoir.

Are there any such stories? :unsure:

Tongue in cheek, Tim.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 07, 2014, 08:45:40 PM
*takes a drink*
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 07, 2014, 08:46:49 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 07, 2014, 08:35:35 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 07, 2014, 08:31:28 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 07, 2014, 08:22:28 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 07, 2014, 08:12:43 PM
Why don't you read a Bulge or D-Day book you commie.

How drabbingly boring. Maybe a good one on Op. Goodwood in the near future.

Monty sucks.

Agreed

I read Caen: Anvil of Victory and laughed my ass off.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on January 07, 2014, 11:10:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 25, 2013, 05:50:59 AM
A book recommendation on facebook from my oldest sister (not to me, but to my other sisters):

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ALD1DIE/ref=r_soa_w_d


Real wardens of Inglewood get hazard pay.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on January 08, 2014, 02:33:48 AM
Anyone read Emperor of All Maladies or The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks?  Also looking for more laymany books on cancer.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on January 08, 2014, 02:37:38 PM
I've been reading "When Titans Clashed", the war on the eastern front. Pretty impressive on how the Russians were able to learn and adapt and change tactics by the second year of the war. Even during the first year they were trying to make the large attacks but lacked the experience to coordinate things to fully take advantage. Then too was the surprise the Germans got as they encountered Russian reserve armies that Russia had organized prior to the war, that German Intel knew nothing of. A shock to the Germans to encounter these new armies after having defeated previous Russian units.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 08, 2014, 04:07:17 PM
That book is a good overview.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 08, 2014, 08:20:05 PM
Quote from: KRonn on January 08, 2014, 02:37:38 PM
I've been reading "When Titans Clashed", the war on the eastern front. Pretty impressive on how the Russians were able to learn and adapt and change tactics by the second year of the war. Even during the first year they were trying to make the large attacks but lacked the experience to coordinate things to fully take advantage. Then too was the surprise the Germans got as they encountered Russian reserve armies that Russia had organized prior to the war, that German Intel knew nothing of. A shock to the Germans to encounter these new armies after having defeated previous Russian units.
That's always amazed me. They were entire fucking armies, how could German intel be so clueless?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 08, 2014, 08:30:34 PM
Cause it happens a lot.  How could the US be so clueless about Tet?  How could the Soviets be so clueless about Barbarossa?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 09, 2014, 01:47:14 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 08, 2014, 08:30:34 PM
Cause it happens a lot.  How could the US be so clueless about Tet?  How could the Soviets be so clueless about Barbarossa?
Soviet intelligence knew about it, Stalin refused to believe them.

Tet occurred in the context of a guerrilla war.

The Nazis managed to be completely ignorant of entire armies that were mobilized until they ran into them in the open field.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 09, 2014, 11:11:43 AM
Did you ever run into spelling in the open field?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 09, 2014, 11:22:32 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 09, 2014, 11:11:43 AM
Did you ever run into spelling in the open field?

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 09, 2014, 12:34:00 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 09, 2014, 01:47:14 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 08, 2014, 08:30:34 PM
Cause it happens a lot.  How could the US be so clueless about Tet?  How could the Soviets be so clueless about Barbarossa?
Soviet intelligence knew about it, Stalin refused to believe them.



Yet the Russian army planned for it. Go figure.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on January 09, 2014, 01:31:05 PM
I've been reading At War In Distant Waters.  It's been really interesting looking at British policy in regards to the war in the colonies through the prism of international trade and the insurance industry.  Although that's absolutely crucial, it really doesn't get as much coverage in most works.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 09, 2014, 08:25:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 08, 2014, 08:30:34 PM
Cause it happens a lot.  How could the US be so clueless about Tet?  How could the Soviets be so clueless about Barbarossa?

Get a hold of a copy of Vladimir Rezun's Icebreaker, for some humerous WW2 conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 09, 2014, 09:58:59 PM
Finnishing up with Nash's Hell's Gate, then on to Kershaw's It Never Snows in September.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 12, 2014, 12:17:33 AM
I have a kindle. I downloaded three books I've already read for references and another that is new to me. I dont know if I like reading books on a kindle. Maybe it's just strange. Feels weird.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 12, 2014, 04:12:50 AM
Hell's Gate (2002)
417 pages
Hard cover
8"x11"

This book covers the Cherkassy (Korsun) Pocket from Jan-Feb 1944. Trapped Germans holding out for dear life, thread bare German relief columns, and determined Red Army doing their utmost to see the Germans fail. Makes for high, tense drama encapsulated. Nash's writing style balances hard data interwoven with eyewitness accounts from both sides. This makes for a enjoyable read, which broadens audience appeal for those who can't deal with Glantz's writing style as an example. His focus is more on the German POV, 60/40, I'd venture. IMO he paints an excellent picture of the difficulties both sides had during the battle. Nash points out mistakes and successes of both sides. Of particular interest, the breakout phase of the battle. He conveys the desperation of the trapped Germans, the confusion then wrath of the Russians once they realized the breakout was underway, and the frustration of the ridiculously weak relief forces very well.  Another highlight is an excellent chapter on the aerial resupply by the Germans. Many superb pictures throughout the book, to include a lot of the actual participants. Maps are well laid out and easy to follow and are of tactical and operational scale.

Not as extensive and meaty as an Ide review, but then I'm lazy.

Recommended, 4.3 out of 5 Otto Gille's       
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 12, 2014, 05:17:34 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 09, 2014, 01:47:14 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 08, 2014, 08:30:34 PM
Cause it happens a lot.  How could the US be so clueless about Tet?  How could the Soviets be so clueless about Barbarossa?
Soviet intelligence knew about it, Stalin refused to believe them.

Tet occurred in the context of a guerrilla war.

The Nazis managed to be completely ignorant of entire armies that were mobilized until they ran into them in the open field.

Military commands get enormous amounts of intelligence.  Shifting through it can be difficult.  There are also less flattering reasons why these things happen.  High ranking officers can be arrogant and surround themselves with yes men.  Unwelcome intelligence estimates can be met with hostility, creating a bubble.  The enemy can be  underestimated for various unsound military reasons and the enemy can be actively trying to deceive their opponents.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 12, 2014, 05:22:07 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 09, 2014, 08:25:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 08, 2014, 08:30:34 PM
Cause it happens a lot.  How could the US be so clueless about Tet?  How could the Soviets be so clueless about Barbarossa?

Get a hold of a copy of Vladimir Rezun's Icebreaker, for some humerous WW2 conspiracy theory.

Yeah I heard of that.  The name through me for a loop though.  I was thinking "I thought Victor Suvorov wrote that", I look it up and and it turns out they are the same guy.  Russians. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on January 12, 2014, 02:32:13 PM
I read Reading Lacan by Jane Gallop.  A series of playful close readings of various important passages from Écrits.  Recommended for those lost souls still nursing an interest in Lacanian psychoanalysis after all these years...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2014, 02:54:07 PM
You and Squeelus should make some babies Capetano.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on January 12, 2014, 03:28:56 PM
 :Embarrass:  I'm just a regular guy... :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on January 12, 2014, 03:34:49 PM
I'm starting Shattered Sword on Berkut's recommendation.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on January 12, 2014, 05:34:11 PM
Reading Basque History of the World, loving it. They're total freaks, it's amazing. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 12, 2014, 07:36:39 PM
And another ethnic group to obsess over.

*takes a drink*
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2014, 07:49:38 PM
THIS ONE IS MOST BEAUTIFUL.  I'M SERIOUS THIS TIME.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on January 12, 2014, 08:12:19 PM
Why aren't you people dead of sclerosis already?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on January 12, 2014, 08:40:02 PM
Reading is a bourgeois pastime.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 12, 2014, 08:49:45 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 12, 2014, 08:40:02 PM
Reading is a bourgeois pastime.

I ain't biting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 12, 2014, 08:58:26 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 12, 2014, 08:40:02 PM
Reading is a bourgeois pastime.

Watching the mouth breathing crap you watch is far more middle class to low class.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on January 12, 2014, 08:59:15 PM
YOU FORGOT TO DRINK. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 12, 2014, 08:59:56 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 12, 2014, 08:59:15 PM
YOU FORGOT TO DRINK. :P

I dont drink anymore. Except when hunting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 13, 2014, 07:52:36 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 12, 2014, 08:12:19 PM
Why aren't you people dead of sclerosis already?

Your voodoo woman is a quack.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on January 13, 2014, 08:47:45 PM
 :bleeding:
I was just wondering how people doing the drinking thing survived my recent enthusiastic posts. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 13, 2014, 08:48:48 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2014, 08:47:45 PM
:bleeding:
I was just wondering how people doing the drinking thing survived my recent enthusiastic posts.

We aren't really taking a drink. Duh.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on January 14, 2014, 04:48:03 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 12, 2014, 03:34:49 PM
I'm starting Shattered Sword on Berkut's recommendation.

Any good?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on January 14, 2014, 06:49:44 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 13, 2014, 08:48:48 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2014, 08:47:45 PM
:bleeding:
I was just wondering how people doing the drinking thing survived my recent enthusiastic posts.

We aren't really taking a drink. Duh.

:whistle:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 14, 2014, 07:58:54 PM
Reading Stahl's Operation Barbarossa 50 pages in and having issues with some uncited claims he makes.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 14, 2014, 08:04:14 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2014, 07:58:54 PM
Reading Stahl's Operation Barbarossa 50 pages in and having issues with some uncited claims he makes.  :rolleyes:

Heh, I was reading Constantine Pleshakov's Tsar's Last Armada and tossed it aside after he claimed the Kaiser was a pillow biter.

I liked his Stalin's Folly much better.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 14, 2014, 08:07:28 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 14, 2014, 08:04:14 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2014, 07:58:54 PM
Reading Stahl's Operation Barbarossa 50 pages in and having issues with some uncited claims he makes.  :rolleyes:

Heh, I was reading Constantine Pleshakov's Tsar's Last Armada and tossed it aside after he claimed the Kaiser was a pillow biter.

I liked his Stalin's Folly much better.

I'll keep driving on but, that just makes it tedious.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on January 14, 2014, 08:45:17 PM
Quote from: Threviel on January 14, 2014, 04:48:03 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 12, 2014, 03:34:49 PM
I'm starting Shattered Sword on Berkut's recommendation.

Any good?
So far I'm liking it.  The Japanocentric view intrigues me, since most of the Midway histories I've read.  I'm also enjoying that it's somewhat hard on Yamamoto.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 15, 2014, 12:16:21 PM
Odd, why would someone want to pay for an ebook put out by P'dox that is freely available from other ebook services? Are their prefaces that good?

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?748004-The-Art-of-War-and-The-Prince-now-available-as-Paradox-ebooks!

QuoteLet the grand masters of old lead the way when you experience Europa Universalis IV! To celebrate the new Conquest of Paradise expansion, Paradox Books has released its own editions of two timeless classic works of war and politics: The Art of War by Sun Tzu and The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli. These books are both in the public domain, but they have been given new prefaces by senior staff members of Paradox Development Studio. Both books are available in the Apple iBookstore now: The Art of War and The Prince.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on January 15, 2014, 01:26:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 15, 2014, 12:16:21 PM
QuoteThese books are both in the public domain, but they have been given new prefaces by senior staff members of Paradox Development Studio. Both books are available in the Apple iBookstore now: The Art of War and The Prince.

:lmfao:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on January 15, 2014, 01:41:05 PM
I'm reading Prime Minister Stephen Harper's A Great Game: The Forgotten Leafs & the Rise of Professional Hockey

It's very good book about the early history of Professional Hockey and the death of Amateur sports in Canada.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on January 15, 2014, 05:48:30 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 15, 2014, 01:41:05 PM
I'm reading Prime Minister Stephen Harper's A Great Game: The Forgotten Leafs & the Rise of Professional Hockey

It's very good book about the early history of Professional Hockey and the death of Amateur sports in Canada.

I'm only half-way through, but enjoying it.

Problem is, of course, is that Harper isn't much of a writer.  It's very workmanlike stuff.  Thankfully the story he's telling is interesting enough to make it worthwhile.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on January 15, 2014, 06:06:56 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 07, 2014, 08:31:28 PM
Monty sucks.

Everybody knows who the best general on the Western Front was.  Lattre de Tassigny :frog:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on January 16, 2014, 08:25:08 AM
Quote from: Barrister on January 15, 2014, 05:48:30 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 15, 2014, 01:41:05 PM
I'm reading Prime Minister Stephen Harper's A Great Game: The Forgotten Leafs & the Rise of Professional Hockey

It's very good book about the early history of Professional Hockey and the death of Amateur sports in Canada.

I'm only half-way through, but enjoying it.

Problem is, of course, is that Harper isn't much of a writer.  It's very workmanlike stuff.  Thankfully the story he's telling is interesting enough to make it worthwhile.

From me the novelty is reading the story from the point of view of Toronto instead of Montreal, that's a first.

I'm reading the French translation, it's a very good translation. One of the best I've come across.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 16, 2014, 07:30:10 PM
yeah I got that Harper book for christmas. Been thinking about picking it up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 16, 2014, 07:35:36 PM
You are all very loyal citizens.

I'm reading King Edward VII: The Playboy Prince.  I got it for my mom for Christmas.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 17, 2014, 12:07:55 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 15, 2014, 01:26:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 15, 2014, 12:16:21 PM
QuoteThese books are both in the public domain, but they have been given new prefaces by senior staff members of Paradox Development Studio. Both books are available in the Apple iBookstore now: The Art of War and The Prince.

:lmfao:

That's gold, Jerry.  Gold!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 17, 2014, 04:05:43 PM
I've been reading the Griffith translation of the Samaveda.  In one of the hymns Indra is described as "Everwaxing."  It took me a minute to realize the translator meant "Wax" in the sense of growing and that the ancient Aryans weren't actually praising their deity for his overactive sebaceous glands.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on January 17, 2014, 04:08:01 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 16, 2014, 08:25:08 AM
Quote from: Barrister on January 15, 2014, 05:48:30 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 15, 2014, 01:41:05 PM
I'm reading Prime Minister Stephen Harper's A Great Game: The Forgotten Leafs & the Rise of Professional Hockey

It's very good book about the early history of Professional Hockey and the death of Amateur sports in Canada.

I'm only half-way through, but enjoying it.

Problem is, of course, is that Harper isn't much of a writer.  It's very workmanlike stuff.  Thankfully the story he's telling is interesting enough to make it worthwhile.

From me the novelty is reading the story from the point of view of Toronto instead of Montreal, that's a first.

I'm reading the French translation, it's a very good translation. One of the best I've come across.

Ah.  I've never read anything about the early history of hockey, so it's all new to me.

Is the French translation by Harper himself?  Or did he get someone else to do it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 26, 2014, 11:32:30 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 02:25:24 PM
Bought Marius B. Jansen's The Making Of Modern Japan. 1600 to 2000. Anyone read it?

Finished it. I found it reasonably good, but I am not an expert on the Edo period, Meiji, Taisho or Showa.

A few minor things: some proof reading misses, some minor repeating of points, and not always great attention to detail (Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1989?).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 28, 2014, 11:25:51 AM
The Samaveda

This is one of the four Vedas texts (along with the Rigveda, Yajurveda and Atharvaveda.)  It consists of much shorter hymns than the Rigveda; and they're much more closely tied to the Soma ritual (some even describe the steps for making Soma.)  As in the Rigveda Indra and Agni (god of fire) are the major deities; other gods make an occasional appearance (curiously Vishnu is a Vedic deity, but appears to be only of minor importance.)  Generally a god or Soma is praised in each individual hymn.

Sam A. Veda would make a great name for a hard boiled detective in an Indian inspired pulp novel. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on January 28, 2014, 11:41:34 AM
So having read that, where do you stand on the "what is soma" debate?  Ephedra?  Amanita mushrooms?  It seems like the main split is between people who think it was basically a hallucinogen and those who think it was basically a stimulant.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 28, 2014, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 28, 2014, 11:41:34 AM
So having read that, where do you stand on the "what is soma" debate?  Ephedra?  Amanita mushrooms?  It seems like the main split is between people who think it was basically a hallucinogen and those who think it was basically a stimulant.

I think you'd be a lot more qualified to answer that than I am.   ;)

While there's a lot in both the Rigveda and the Samaveda that details how Soma is made, there's very little that says what it does.  It's supposed to convey ecstasy and make man's heart glad, but there's no reference to it conferring shamanic powers, so a hallucinogenic seems unlikely.  At the same time ephedra is a pretty mild stimulant; it's hard to believe they would consider that an ecstasy or that they would make such an elaborate ritual around it.

Indra is supposed to have conquered 100 Dasa forts in the ecstasies of Soma; maybe it's a type of spinach. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on January 28, 2014, 01:40:13 PM
Wouldn't plain old Mary J make sense?  We have extensive evidence that it was cultivated by the Proto Indo-Europeans and successive steppe peoples. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 28, 2014, 01:57:20 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 28, 2014, 01:40:13 PM
Wouldn't plain old Mary J make sense?  We have extensive evidence that it was cultivated by the Proto Indo-Europeans and successive steppe peoples.

It could be, I'm not at all an expert, but then Soma shouldn't have become lost.  Also, if that's the case, they had an unusual method of preparing it (grinding it, boiling it in milk and then straining it.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 31, 2014, 05:09:59 PM
Story of Wenamun

This is a fragment from a now lost longer work about a priest of Amon who travels around the eastern Mediterranean at the end of the New Kingdom.  Wenamun, a priest, goes to Babylon where he's robbed, but the authorities do nothing and treat him insolently.  He requests a tribute of wood for a temple of Amun, which was given for free in ages past, but now the King demands payment for it.  Then he's blown off course to Cyprus where he's almost killed by a mob, but the queen saves him where the text breaks off.

Some scholars think that this is supposed to be filled with irony; and it does play out a bit like Candide.  Maybe the Egyptians found some bitter humor in Egypt's reduced role in world affairs at the collapse of the New Kingdom.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 31, 2014, 05:17:49 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 31, 2014, 05:09:59 PM
Story of Wenamun

This is a fragment from a now lost longer work about a priest of Amon who travels around the eastern Mediterranean at the end of the New Kingdom.  Wenamun, a priest, goes to Babylon where he's robbed, but the authorities do nothing and treat him insolently.  He requests a tribute of wood for a temple of Amun, which was given for free in ages past, but now the King demands payment for it.  Then he's blown off course to Cyprus where he's almost killed by a mob, but the queen saves him where the text breaks off.

Some scholars think that this is supposed to be filled with irony; and it does play out a bit like Candide.  Maybe the Egyptians found some bitter humor in Egypt's reduced role in world affairs at the collapse of the New Kingdom.

Wenamun was (allegedly) robbed in a place called Dor, not Babylon.

How do I know this? I spent a season as a volunteer excavating the site (now Tel Dor, in Israel) and it is pretty well the only literary mention of the place!  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 04, 2014, 11:50:01 AM
Looks like an interesting book.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00HVYG0MU/geneexpressio-20

QuoteHumanity on the Edge of History
By Razib Khan • February 4, 2014 • 600 Words

...

After reading Peter Bellwood's First Migrants, I am now tempted to coin a phrase: "Nothing in history makes sense except in light of demography." This is obviously too strong a phraseology, but if the methods of modern statistical genetics are correct in the peculiar inferences they're making, then we do need to rewrite the history books to a great extent. Or at least expand the purview of what we consider history, and how we understand what archaeology is telling us. For example, Africa is often represented in the public imagination as the ur-continent: unchanging, everlasting, primal. But the results we see from genetics, the relative similarity of populations from Nigeria to the South Africa's Eastern Cape, and the minimal impact of the ancient hunter-gatherers on the ancestral variation of these people, attest to recent and revolutionary changes in the character of the population of the African continent, which belies its static perception. This recent paper, as well as Luca Pagani's result on admixture within Ethiopia, implies that demography has wrought drastic change among the non-Bantu people of eastern and southern Africa, pushing them to the margins of history. To put it more starkly: when the pyramids of Egypt were being built the vast continent to the south would have been unrecognizable in terms of its human geography to a physical anthropologist.

And this is not just a feature of Africa. In First Migrants the author recounts a personal communication from a scholar who has assembled unpublished data on the skeletal remains and ancient DNA from a community in northern Vietnam ~4,000 years ago. This seems to have have a frontier agricultural settlement, on the edge of rice culture. While the majority of individuals exhibited the body type and skull form of modern Asians, a minority manifested what the author terms "Austro-Melanesian" physical attributes. And critically, the ancient mtDNA haplogroups break down in the exact same ratios as the morphological remains, with a majority shared with modern Northeast Asians, but a minority of a type limited to Southeast Asia, and usually inferred to suggest common heritage with the peoples of Australasia and South Asia.

What the researcher above captured was a snapshot in time, freezing a moment which was transitory, as the ancient substrate of Southeast Asia was absorbed into the advancing wave of farmers. One could go on in this vein. We know so much more than we did in the past, and not to be hyperbolic, but some of what we know suspect resembles Conan the Barbarian more than the wildest imaginings of prehistorians of the past generation. But that's one of the great things about scholarship: it can confound pedestrian expectations. And on occasion which captures the ineffable aspects of truth obscured should astound us.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on February 04, 2014, 12:01:28 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 17, 2014, 04:08:01 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 16, 2014, 08:25:08 AM
Quote from: Barrister on January 15, 2014, 05:48:30 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 15, 2014, 01:41:05 PM
I'm reading Prime Minister Stephen Harper's A Great Game: The Forgotten Leafs & the Rise of Professional Hockey

It's very good book about the early history of Professional Hockey and the death of Amateur sports in Canada.

I'm only half-way through, but enjoying it.

Problem is, of course, is that Harper isn't much of a writer.  It's very workmanlike stuff.  Thankfully the story he's telling is interesting enough to make it worthwhile.

From me the novelty is reading the story from the point of view of Toronto instead of Montreal, that's a first.

I'm reading the French translation, it's a very good translation. One of the best I've come across.

Ah.  I've never read anything about the early history of hockey, so it's all new to me.

Is the French translation by Harper himself?  Or did he get someone else to do it.


Someone did it, forgot the name but iirc it's a woman. It's translated for European release, so sometimes I am infuriated at the terms beings used.

I've taken a break from the book. There is only so much game by game explanation of 1910 Toronto hockey I can take.

If you enjoy Harper's book try this :

Putting a Roof on Winter: Hockey's Rise from Sport to Spectacle (http://www.amazon.ca/Putting-Roof-Winter-Hockeys-Spectacle/dp/155054876X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391533192&sr=8-1&keywords=a+roof+for+hockey)

KNIGHTS OF WINTER: Hockey in British Columbia: 1895-1911 (http://www.amazon.ca/KNIGHTS-WINTER-British-Columbia-1895-1911/dp/0969170548/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391533270&sr=8-1&keywords=craig+bowlsby)

1913: The Year They Invented The Future Of Hockey (http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/1913-the-year-they-invented/9780969170570-item.html)

I have not read the 3rd one, never seen in stock before.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2014, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 04, 2014, 11:50:01 AM
Looks like an interesting book.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00HVYG0MU/geneexpressio-20

QuoteHumanity on the Edge of History
By Razib Khan • February 4, 2014 • 600 Words

We know so much more than we did in the past, and not to be hyperbolic, but some of what we know suspect resembles Conan the Barbarian more than the wildest imaginings of prehistorians of the past generation

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean but it sure sounds silly.
As to the apparent premise of the book, it would not be suprising to learn that Neolithic era migrations had significant demographic impacts, as one would presume that the earlier populations were relatively diffuse and small in number.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 09, 2014, 08:28:08 PM
Picked up A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings.

The writing itself is not that to give me a woodie, but I was prepared for much worse, having some experience with the fantasy genre.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 10, 2014, 03:48:14 PM
Anyone have good book recommendations for Classical Greece?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 10, 2014, 03:54:14 PM
I've previously mentioned "The Classical World" by Robin Lane Fox.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 10, 2014, 04:49:21 PM
Kitto's 'The Greeks' is a good starting point.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 13, 2014, 02:47:45 PM
Got a shipment.

Rana Mitter, China's War with Japan 1937-1945: The Struggle for Survival.

Peter Harmsen, Shanghai 1937: Stalingrad on the Yangtze.

Edited by some dudes, The Battle for China: Essays on the Military History of the Sino-Japanse War of 1937-1945.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 13, 2014, 03:40:08 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 09, 2014, 08:28:08 PM
Picked up A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings.

The writing itself is not that to give me a woodie, but I was prepared for much worse, having some experience with the fantasy genre.

The plot is the main draw, though character & world development is not ignored.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 13, 2014, 04:30:28 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 09, 2014, 08:28:08 PM
Picked up A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings.

The writing itself is not that to give me a woodie, but I was prepared for much worse, having some experience with the fantasy genre.

It's pretty good for Fantasy, I think that's a major draw.  A lot of fantasy and science fiction authors produce dreadful prose.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
I'm coming to the opinion that spoken dialogue is one of Martins' stronger suits.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 13, 2014, 07:58:56 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
I'm coming to the opinion that spoken dialogue is one of Martins' stronger suits.

Yes, enjoy it while it lasts.  The first three books are wonderful.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 14, 2014, 04:21:51 PM
One of the projects I'm working on is building a point to point microwave system through the interior of Colombia.  The system goes through mostly banana plantations; it's common for workers to get paid in bananas in the area.  There's a number of small villages along the line; on the highway residents will place speed bumps in order to slow traffic down in order to sell travelers guava paste and queso blanco.

One of those little towns is Aracataca, the hometown  of Gabriel García Márquez and the model for "Macondo" in his novels.  I haven't had to go to Colombia (yet) but if I do I'll try to see that.  We have a tower right by it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2014, 04:25:25 PM
How far is that from FARC country?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 14, 2014, 04:38:23 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2014, 04:25:25 PM
How far is that from FARC country?

Not very far at all.  Today the area has been pacified; but three years ago FARC blew up the railroad tracks that we're running parallel to.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on February 14, 2014, 10:47:35 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 13, 2014, 02:47:45 PM
Got a shipment.

Rana Mitter, China's War with Japan 1937-1945: The Struggle for Survival.

Peter Harmsen, Shanghai 1937: Stalingrad on the Yangtze.

Edited by some dudes, The Battle for China: Essays on the Military History of the Sino-Japanse War of 1937-1945.

I'd be interested in hearing your conclusions when you're done your reading.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 14, 2014, 11:23:37 PM
Rana Miller is probably one of the more accessible writers on Chinese history today, and puts actual effort in balancing out the complexities of the Sino-Japanese relationship, both pre- and post-war.

The Essays work, which I haven't read, is edited by Hans van de Ven, who absolutely knows his shit;  you would probably enjoy his own writings immensely and he pulls no punches on American political treatment of Chiang (read: Stillwell's incompetence) during the war.  He is probably my all-time fave-rave western Chinese academic after Alistair Johnston at Harvard.

But you asked The Brain.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 15, 2014, 02:53:44 AM
:yeah:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 15, 2014, 11:19:47 AM
Yeah, yeah, yeah...you're everybody's favorite not named Jacob, and I am Languish's Greatest Monster.  I get it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on February 15, 2014, 03:16:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 13, 2014, 07:58:56 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
I'm coming to the opinion that spoken dialogue is one of Martins' stronger suits.

Yes, enjoy it while it lasts.  The first three books are wonderful.

I been thinking about whether I should start book 4 or not. I keep hearing about how it goes downhill. I sort of want to read it before the show resumes. Is it readable?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 15, 2014, 03:51:32 PM
Quote from: Josephus on February 15, 2014, 03:16:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 13, 2014, 07:58:56 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
I'm coming to the opinion that spoken dialogue is one of Martins' stronger suits.

Yes, enjoy it while it lasts.  The first three books are wonderful.

I been thinking about whether I should start book 4 or not. I keep hearing about how it goes downhill. I sort of want to read it before the show resumes. Is it readable?

I believe that books 4 and 5 take place at the same time but were split to cover characters in Westeros (4) and Essos (5). I don't recall either being unreadable - just neither really capable of provoking the same level of interest.

Mybiggest complaint about book 4 is that you don't have featured several of the interesting characters who are kept in the wings till book 5.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 15, 2014, 04:05:48 PM
Quote from: Josephus on February 15, 2014, 03:16:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 13, 2014, 07:58:56 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
I'm coming to the opinion that spoken dialogue is one of Martins' stronger suits.

Yes, enjoy it while it lasts.  The first three books are wonderful.

I been thinking about whether I should start book 4 or not. I keep hearing about how it goes downhill. I sort of want to read it before the show resumes. Is it readable?
I've heard that if you read it in chronological order it's a lot better.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 15, 2014, 04:13:48 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 15, 2014, 04:05:48 PM
Quote from: Josephus on February 15, 2014, 03:16:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 13, 2014, 07:58:56 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
I'm coming to the opinion that spoken dialogue is one of Martins' stronger suits.

Yes, enjoy it while it lasts.  The first three books are wonderful.

I been thinking about whether I should start book 4 or not. I keep hearing about how it goes downhill. I sort of want to read it before the show resumes. Is it readable?
I've heard that if you read it in chronological order it's a lot better.

Now that is nerdy as fuck. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 15, 2014, 04:20:09 PM
I hear there's an ebook file floating around the internet that has all the chapters in orders.

Here's the reading order
http://boiledleather.com/post/25902554148/a-new-reader-friendly-combined-reading-order-for-a
QuotePrologue: ADWD 1
    Prologue: AFFC 1
    The Prophet: AFFC 2
    The Captain of Guards: AFFC 3
    Cersei I: AFFC 4
    Tyrion I: ADWD 2
    Daenerys I: ADWD 3
    Brienne I: AFFC 5
    Jon I: ADWD 4
    Bran I: ADWD 5
    Tyrion II: ADWD 6 [then SKIP Chapter 7, The Merchant's Man]
    Samwell I: AFFC 6
    Jon II: ADWD 8
    Arya I: AFFC 7
    Cersei II: AFFC 8
    Jaime I: AFFC 9
    Brienne II: AFFC 10
    Sansa I: AFFC 11
    The Kraken's Daughter: AFFC 12
    Tyrion III: ADWD 9
    Davos I: ADWD 10
    Jon III: ADWD 11
    Daenerys II: ADWD 12
    Reek I: ADWD 13
    Cersei III: AFFC 13
    The Soiled Knight: AFFC 14
    Bran II: ADWD 14
    Tyrion IV: ADWD 15
    Davos II: ADWD 16
    Brienne III: AFFC 15
    Samwell II: AFFC 16
    Daenerys III: ADWD 17
    Jon IV: ADWD 18
    Jaime II: AFFC 17
    Tyrion V: ADWD 19
    Cersei IV: AFFC 18
    Davos III: ADWD 20
    The Iron Captain: AFFC 19
    The Drowned Man: AFFC 20
    Brienne IV: AFFC 21
    The Queenmaker: AFFC 22
    Arya II: AFFC 23
    Alayne I: AFFC 24 [then JUMP AHEAD to Chapter 41: The Princess in the Tower]
    The Princess in the Tower: AFFC 41 [now switch to ADWD and JUMP BACK to Chapter 7: The Merchant's Man]
    The Merchant's Man: ADWD 7 [now switch to AFFC and JUMP BACK to Chapter 25: Cersei]
    Cersei V: AFFC 25
    Reek II: ADWD 21
    Jon V: ADWD 22
    Tyrion VI: ADWD 23
    Daenerys IV: ADWD 24
    The Lost Lord: ADWD 25
    The Windblown: ADWD 26
    The Wayward Bride: ADWD 27
    Brienne V: AFFC 26
    Samwell III: AFFC 27
    Jaime III: AFFC 28
    Tyrion VII: ADWD 28
    Jon VI: ADWD 29
    Davos IV: ADWD 30
    Cersei VI: AFFC 29
    The Reaver: AFFC 30
    Daenerys V: ADWD 31
    Melisandre I: ADWD 32
    Jaime IV: AFFC 31
    Brienne VI: AFFC 32
    Reek III: ADWD 33
    Tyrion VIII: ADWD 34
    Cersei VII: AFFC 33
    Jaime V: AFFC 34
    Cat of the Canals: AFFC 35
    Samwell IV: AFFC 36
    Cersei VIII: AFFC 37
    Brienne VII: AFFC 38
    Jaime VI: AFFC 39
    Cersei IX: AFFC 40 [remember, you can skip Chapter 41: The Princess in the Tower, because you already read it]
    Bran III: ADWD 35
    Jon VII: ADWD 36
    Daenerys VI: ADWD 37
    The Prince of Winterfell: ADWD 38
    The Watcher: ADWD 39
    Jon VIII: ADWD 40
    Tyrion IX: ADWD 41
    The Turncloak: ADWD 42
    The King's Prize: ADWD 43
    Daenerys VII: ADWD 44
    Alayne II: AFFC 42
    Jon IX: ADWD 45
    Brienne VIII: AFFC 43
    Cersei X: AFFC 44
    Jaime VII: AFFC 45
    Samwell V: AFFC 46
    The Blind Girl: ADWD 46
    A Ghost in Winterfell: ADWD 47
    Tyrion X: ADWD 48
    Jaime VIII: ADWD 49
    Jon X: ADWD 50
    Daenerys VIII: ADWD 51
    Theon VII: ADWD 52
    Daenerys IX: ADWD 53
    Jon XI: ADWD 54
    Cersei XI: ADWD 55
    The Queensguard: ADWD 56
    The Iron Suitor: ADWD 57
    Tyrion XI: ADWD 58
    Jon XII: ADWD 59
    The Discarded Knight: ADWD 60
    The Spurned Suitor: ADWD 61
    The Griffin Reborn: ADWD 62
    The Sacrifice: ADWD 63
    Victarion: ADWD 64
    The Ugly Little Girl: ADWD 65
    Cersei XII: ADWD 66
    Tyrion XII: ADWD 67
    The Kingbreaker: ADWD 68
    The Dragontamer: ADWD 69
    Jon XIII: ADWD 70
    The Queen's Hand: ADWD 71
    Daenerys X: ADWD 72
    Epilogue: ADWD 73
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on February 15, 2014, 06:37:54 PM
god that's too much work. Looking for some light Cuban beach reading.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 15, 2014, 09:00:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 15, 2014, 03:51:32 PM
I believe that books 4 and 5 take place at the same time but were split to cover characters in Westeros (4) and Essos (5). I don't recall either being unreadable - just neither really capable of provoking the same level of interest.


yes, they were split but that is really what makes them unreadable - as others have commented for it all to make much sense you either have to reformat the chapters in books 4 and 5 or you need to have the geekiest knowledge compendium of the series known to geek kind.

In addition he simply dropped most of the interesting plot lines form the preceeding books and introduced a bunch of additional dangling threads he will never tie up.

If I were you Joesphus, I would wait for the reviews of the next book - if it ever comes out - to see if it is worth continuing with 4, 5 and 6
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on February 16, 2014, 08:04:56 AM
If you're reading the Fat Man with the expectation that he will not pull a Jordan, you're a deluded fool.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 16, 2014, 12:53:34 PM
Main problem with Jordan isn't that he never finished, it's how tedious and repetitive he got along the way.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on February 16, 2014, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 15, 2014, 09:00:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 15, 2014, 03:51:32 PM
I believe that books 4 and 5 take place at the same time but were split to cover characters in Westeros (4) and Essos (5). I don't recall either being unreadable - just neither really capable of provoking the same level of interest.


yes, they were split but that is really what makes them unreadable - as others have commented for it all to make much sense you either have to reformat the chapters in books 4 and 5 or you need to have the geekiest knowledge compendium of the series known to geek kind.

In addition he simply dropped most of the interesting plot lines form the preceeding books and introduced a bunch of additional dangling threads he will never tie up.

If I were you Joesphus, I would wait for the reviews of the next book - if it ever comes out - to see if it is worth continuing with 4, 5 and 6

Alright, CC. Book 4 won't be coming to Cuba then.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 16, 2014, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 15, 2014, 09:00:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 15, 2014, 03:51:32 PM
I believe that books 4 and 5 take place at the same time but were split to cover characters in Westeros (4) and Essos (5). I don't recall either being unreadable - just neither really capable of provoking the same level of interest.


yes, they were split but that is really what makes them unreadable - as others have commented for it all to make much sense you either have to reformat the chapters in books 4 and 5 or you need to have the geekiest knowledge compendium of the series known to geek kind.

In addition he simply dropped most of the interesting plot lines form the preceeding books and introduced a bunch of additional dangling threads he will never tie up.

If I were you Joesphus, I would wait for the reviews of the next book - if it ever comes out - to see if it is worth continuing with 4, 5 and 6

Yeah I don't recall that (as in needing them to be exactly in order chronologically). I don't recall an issue understanding them at all - just that one book ended up with mostly dull characters and there were too many new POV characters who were obnoxious.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 17, 2014, 12:47:17 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 16, 2014, 12:53:34 PM
Main problem with Jordan isn't that he never finished, it's how tedious and repetitive he got along the way.

That doesn't exactly disprove Scipio's point . . .
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on February 17, 2014, 12:53:33 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 16, 2014, 12:53:34 PM
Main problem with Jordan isn't that he never finished, it's how tedious and repetitive he got along the way.

That was my problem with Martin.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 17, 2014, 12:56:26 AM
Agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 17, 2014, 01:30:17 AM
Quote from: Jacob on February 17, 2014, 12:53:33 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 16, 2014, 12:53:34 PM
Main problem with Jordan isn't that he never finished, it's how tedious and repetitive he got along the way.

That was my problem with Martin.

Yup.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on February 17, 2014, 06:47:41 AM
The quality of the writing goes seriously downhill from Book 4 as well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 17, 2014, 08:45:06 AM
It's hard to type when your hands are caked in a melange of Twinkie, ding dong and zinger remnants.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 17, 2014, 12:21:55 PM
Quote from: Gups on February 17, 2014, 06:47:41 AM
The quality of the writing goes seriously downhill from Book 4 as well.

:yes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 18, 2014, 10:02:50 AM
The Nature of Chaos by Tom Mullin

This is an introduction to the field of Chaos Theory.  It does a decent job introducing the field and showing applications of it in various disciplines; however the book fails to explain how chaos theory causes dinosaurs to chase around Jeff Goldblum.  I found this an inexcusable weakness.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 20, 2014, 02:06:55 PM
Following on from Middlemarch I'm re-reading a couple of books I read too young: The Secret Agent and Jenkins' Gladstone.

Also the first Lord Peter Wimsey mystery because I've never read any Golden Age detective stories and I've heard Sayers is the best.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on February 20, 2014, 02:17:53 PM
How old is old enough to read Middlemarch?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 25, 2014, 04:59:57 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 14, 2014, 10:47:35 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 13, 2014, 02:47:45 PM
Got a shipment.

Rana Mitter, China's War with Japan 1937-1945: The Struggle for Survival.

Peter Harmsen, Shanghai 1937: Stalingrad on the Yangtze.

Edited by some dudes, The Battle for China: Essays on the Military History of the Sino-Japanse War of 1937-1945.

I'd be interested in hearing your conclusions when you're done your reading.

I finished China's War with Japan. I generally don't care for frog historians, I find them too theory-laden and "intellectual", but the author has written a nice little introduction to the war. Focus is on the Chinese state's actions during the war, and the problems it had to face. Not extremely detailed when it comes to the actual fighting, and even less when it comes to the Japanese (which makes sense). It did make me realize that Stilwell = grumbler.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 25, 2014, 05:07:51 PM
Around the World in 80 Days  :bowler:

If Phineas Fogg had arranged for a steamship out of New York (and arrived after it had departed), how could he have not known the date (and actually been a day ahead)?  :unsure:

Otherwise it's still a great yarn; one of Verne's best.   :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 25, 2014, 05:26:13 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on February 20, 2014, 02:17:53 PM
How old is old enough to read Middlemarch?
:lol: I had to read it for A-Level and I loved it then. But I think it's a book that you can come back to, having lived a little more each time, and enjoy for different reasons.

I read a lot of Victorian fiction when I was younger and I enjoyed lots of it, but I think I was a bit impatient with the prose. Lately I've been on a big Victorian binge for some reason - Gladstone, Trollope, Eliot, Newman. So I'm getting more out of reading these, for me, new Victorians - like Dickens and Trollope and Collins. That's prompted to revisit the old Victorians and so far I am generally appreciating them more.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 25, 2014, 11:35:42 PM
I'm looking for a book on France during WWI.  Particularly the political aspects.  I'm curious how a democracy functions when a portion of the country has been overrun and the rest under siege.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on February 26, 2014, 06:29:10 AM
"Dreadnought" by Robert Massie (rightly praised by several  earlier in this thread for his Peter the Great biog, don't bother with the Catherine the Great biog, it's 80% nonsense about here relationships with her lovers).

Dreadnought is pretty good, but overlong (>1,000 pages) and somewhat repetitive. Lots of min-biogs of key protagnists in the Anglo-German naval arms race including Bismark, Kaiser Bill, Holstein, Salibury,  Tirpotz Joey C and Fisher (who Massie kinda hero-worships) whcih are entertaining but frequyently irrelevant to the book. Good on explaining ship design and overarching diplomatic strategy. Half way through and a solid 7/10.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 26, 2014, 06:37:48 AM
make sure you read Castles of Steel afterwards.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 26, 2014, 11:00:38 AM
Quote from: Gups on February 26, 2014, 06:29:10 AM
don't bother with the Catherine the Great biog, it's 80% nonsense about here relationships with her lovers).

:mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 26, 2014, 11:08:03 AM
I was bored to tears by Dreadnought.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 27, 2014, 06:11:45 PM
Anyone know of a 'History of Western Philosophy' style book for twentieth century philosophers?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on February 28, 2014, 07:13:45 AM
So, I'm reading the graphic novel Batman: Odyssey by Neal Adams.

Holy fuck, Neal Adams is completely fucking insane.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on February 28, 2014, 09:53:43 AM
Steve Jobs by Walter Isaacson*

Jobs was the craziest dude to ever become a billionaire.

*Isn't this the jewiest jewish name ever.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 28, 2014, 01:04:32 PM
Walter is a pretty goy name.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 01, 2014, 09:20:52 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 25, 2014, 11:35:42 PM
I'm looking for a book on France during WWI.  Particularly the political aspects.  I'm curious how a democracy functions when a portion of the country has been overrun and the rest under siege.
Alastair Horne wrote a book about the Battle of Verdun that may cover some of this. Though it's possibly very out of date now.

I'd recommend getting a general book about WW1 with a good bibliography/suggested reading list at the end and going from there. Sir Hew Strachan did a one volume survey of the war which may be good for that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on March 01, 2014, 03:12:05 PM
When I was searching for books on my Kindle I found a book for two bucks called "Pines".  Which I later found out was part of a series.  It's very much airport reading and the writing is fairly poor, but I bought it for two bucks so what should I expect?  First chapter the main character wakes up with... Amnesia!  The first three women he meets are all beautiful women. :lol:  It's suppose to be about some nice town with a spooky secret, but we get inundated with the spooky right off the bat.  So I guess it's a spooky town with a spooky secret.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 08, 2014, 08:45:09 PM
Does anybody have a recommendation on a book about Italian political movements?  Mainly interested in the 19th c. (unification/anarchism/etc.) up to pre-WWII fascism period, but something on the 60s-80s Operation Gladio/Red Brigades period would be of interest as well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 08, 2014, 08:53:16 PM
I haven't read it yet and it's not strictly on topic but the new biography of Gabriele D'Annunzio might be of interest and will probably touch on a few. May have a decent bibliography too:
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/feb/04/pike-gabriele-d-annunzio-biography-review
QuoteThe Pike: Gabriele D'Annunzio – Poet, Seducer & Preacher of War by Lucy Hughes-Hallett – review
Italian poet Gabriele D'Annunzio might have been a repellent human being, but he's perfect for a page-turning biography
Ian Birrell
The Observer, Sunday 3 February 2013

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FAdmin%2FBkFill%2FDefault_image_group%2F2013%2F1%2F30%2F1359547320482%2FGabriele-DAnnunzio-with-M-010.jpg&hash=941ed7e3f6e760e53f538529a6ad530a49725461)
Gabriele D'Annunzio with Mussolini in Italy, 1925. Photograph: Keystone-France/Gamma-Keystone via Getty Images
When Liane de Pougy, one of the most celebrated Parisian courtesans, visited Florence, a famous admirer sent a carriage filled with roses to collect her. As she descended the steps, his servants threw more roses at her. "There before me was a frightful gnome with red-rimmed eyes and no eyelashes, no hair, greenish teeth, bad breath, the manners of a mountebank and the reputation, nevertheless, for being a ladies' man."

This was none other than Gabriele D'Annunzio, the poet and lothario who seduced Italy to wartime slaughter with his rhetoric, scandalised Europe with his writing and set up his own city state in a forerunner of fascism. In this exhaustive biography, Lucy Hughes-Hallett attempts to peel away the many layers of an astonishing Italian egotist who still divides opinion over his politics, poetry and prose.

He was, without doubt, a revolting man, whose rampant vanity and sexual desires knew no bounds. Although he bedded scores of Europe's most beautiful women, his treatment of them was contemptuous; indeed, there are suggestions from his writing he liked the idea of raping working-class women. His housekeeper was expected to have sex with him three times a day.

Then there was his bloodlust as he sought Italian participation in the first world war, with fiery nationalist speeches and sub-Nietzschean fantasies, arguing a race only won respect by spilling the blood of its young. Even his biographer admits she is repelled by him. Once at war, he orders soldiers to shoot some captive countrymen whom he called "sinners against the fatherland". Little wonder he captivated Mussolini.

Yet he was brave in battle, a passionate protector of his men, a pioneering aviator. Above all, he was a prodigious writer whose collected works ran to 48 volumes. Puccini wanted to work with him, Proust admired him and Joyce said he was one of the three most talented writers of the 19th century, alongside Kipling and Tolstoy. His flowery and explicit writing had flair, even if he was not, as he claimed, the greatest Italian writer since Dante. But then, even his children had to call him maestro.

It all makes a splendid subject for a biography, although since he wrote constantly in his notebooks, there is a surfeit of material and at times this biography sags slightly as it tries to make sense of such a well-recorded life. There were rumours he removed his ribs to perform fellatio on himself; he claimed to have eaten the meat of children; there is drug use towards the end of his life as his health deteriorates. Some stories were false, of course, made up by D'Annunzio or reporters soaking up his life for their papers.

Here lies the key to this horrifically fascinating subject. For he was not just the prototype fascist who paved the way for Mussolini, but a pioneer of modern celebrity culture. He understood the fantastic soft power of fame. So while still a teenager, he published a volume of poetry, then informed a newspaper editor the young writer was dead, ensuring national publicity. When the Mona Lisa was stolen, he claimed it was brought to his house. After he sat on a plane at an air show, mechanics auctioned the seat to fans.

His greatest work of art was the construct of Gabriele D'Annunzio. "The world must be convinced that I am capable of anything," he wrote, and in his life, he lived up to this ideal. He was undeniably brilliant – at the age of 16, he wrote to his parents in six languages. The tragedy was that he put this genius to such nefarious ends, fanning the flames of war, nationalism and blood-stained division that culminated in such tragedy for his country and continent.

Hughes-Hallett dances her way through this extraordinary life in a style that is playful, punchy and generally pleasing. She eschews chronology in places for a chopped-up style of vignettes that works surprisingly well as she seeks to separate the man from his myths. Mostly, she allows the poet to hang himself. And she shows the links between him and Mussolini are more blurred then suspected, with D'Annunzio constantly wary of the emerging fascist leader.

Indeed, he seems bored by politics, with few fixed convictions beyond his own importance and a crude sense of Italian greatness, while Mussolini watches and learns from the master of self-promotion. The best bit of the book is the description of the anarchic events at Fiume in 1919, when black-shirted nationalists seized the Adriatic port for Italy. For more than a year, D'Annunzio is duce of it as it descends into darkness and racist divisions, a portent for scenes soon to engulf Europe. Meanwhile, he changes the flowers round his bed three times a day.

He ends his life promoted to general and living in Lake Garda, turning his home into a temple to himself. Mussolini, realising the potency of the poet's appeal in Italy, smothers him with luxury, sending him ever more outrageous gifts for his garden, culminating in a plane and the prow of a battleship. After his death in 1938, his girlfriend turns out to have been a Nazi agent; there are rumours she killed him with a drug overdose. In death, as in life, the amazing story of D'Annunzio was painted in primary colours, but with the darkest of shadows.

Lucy Hughes-Hallett discusses The Pike at Lutyens & Rubinstein book shop, 21 Kensington Park Road, London W11 on Wednesday 6 February at 7pm (£5, including a glass of wine)
His home, with battleship:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstrangeflowers.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F11%2Fvittoriale.jpg%3Fw%3D450%26amp%3Bh%3D267&hash=d4dd722ee3f991ac78ba0e811dde53a2de2aadd6)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 08, 2014, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 08, 2014, 08:45:09 PM
Does anybody have a recommendation on a book about Italian political movements?  Mainly interested in the 19th c. (unification/anarchism/etc.) up to pre-WWII fascism period, but something on the 60s-80s Operation Gladio/Red Brigades period would be of interest as well.

Find a biography on di Cavour;  as a political figure, he was out-Bismarcking Bismarck before realpolitik had a name.  One of the greatest statesmen Italy ever produced.

And you can't do early 20th century Italian Marxist theory without reading Antonio Gramsci.  If you don't want to plow through his Prison Notebooks (and it is a plow, but Mussolini gave him plenty of prison time to write), try his Selected Readings;  good essay-sized bites.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 08, 2014, 10:07:52 PM
Ah, D'Annunzio. :)  The true author of fascism.  I was amazed at how much of fascist aesthetic practice (as well as real political structure) was developed in his Fiume.

Thanks for the link, I'll definitely check that out.  His post-Fiume life looks amazing, in a pathetic way.  Mussolini's supposed to have said about him: "When you have a rotten tooth you have two possibilities open to you: either you pull the tooth or you fill it with gold. With D'Annunzio I have chosen for the latter treatment."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 08, 2014, 10:12:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 08, 2014, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 08, 2014, 08:45:09 PM
Does anybody have a recommendation on a book about Italian political movements?  Mainly interested in the 19th c. (unification/anarchism/etc.) up to pre-WWII fascism period, but something on the 60s-80s Operation Gladio/Red Brigades period would be of interest as well.

Find a biography on di Cavour;  as a political figure, he was out-Bismarcking Bismarck before realpolitik had a name.  One of the greatest statesmen Italy ever produced.

And you can't do early 20th century Italian Marxist theory without reading Antonio Gramsci.  If you don't want to plow through his Prison Notebooks (and it is a plow, but Mussolini gave him plenty of prison time to write), try his Selected Readings;  good essay-sized bites.

Thanks, I've never even heard of di Cavour.  :)

I've only read a little bit of Gramsci.  Enough to cite to him for "cultural hegemony," but not enough to really know what he's talking about.  :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on March 08, 2014, 10:13:51 PM
Who here has read Infinite Jest?  Currently tackling it. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 08, 2014, 10:23:43 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 08, 2014, 10:04:56 PM
And you can't do early 20th century Italian Marxist theory without reading Antonio Gramsci.  If you don't want to plow through his Prison Notebooks (and it is a plow, but Mussolini gave him plenty of prison time to write), try his Selected Readings;  good essay-sized bites.
:mmm:

And D'Annunzio's home in Garda is apparently extraordinary. I heard a Radio 4 documentary there and it sounds like it has that very fascist combination of the sinister and the kitsch. D'Annunzio also wrote the one of the first and most important epic silent films:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOWicOwtHa8
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 08, 2014, 11:31:15 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on March 08, 2014, 10:13:51 PM
Who here has read Infinite Jest?  Currently tackling it.

David Foster Wallace always gave me the shits with his pretentious style.*





*The kind of style that him do annoying gimmicky stream-of-consciousness stuff like foot notes, that were as tedious as you'd expect them to be.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on March 08, 2014, 11:33:29 PM
I'm liking it in fits and starts but he doesn't seem to have the style of Pynchon or Vollmann and seems completely obsessed with things I don't really care about at all.  I'm way more willing to read 1,000 page Post Modern works on WW2 than on a bunch of people trying to stop smoking pot in to an uninteresting, dated Sci Fi caricature of the Untied States. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 09, 2014, 03:20:02 AM
America Unbound?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 09, 2014, 10:45:22 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 08, 2014, 10:12:13 PM
Thanks, I've never even heard of di Cavour.  :)

:bleeding:  And you went to Harvard.  :bleeding:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 09, 2014, 05:31:01 PM
He ate too much cottage cheese there.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 10, 2014, 06:06:54 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on March 08, 2014, 10:13:51 PM
Who here has read Infinite Jest?  Currently tackling it.

I thought it was brilliant and irritating in equal measure. Probably the best book I'd never recommend to anyone.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Beenherebefore on March 10, 2014, 01:56:11 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 08, 2014, 10:12:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 08, 2014, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 08, 2014, 08:45:09 PM
Does anybody have a recommendation on a book about Italian political movements?  Mainly interested in the 19th c. (unification/anarchism/etc.) up to pre-WWII fascism period, but something on the 60s-80s Operation Gladio/Red Brigades period would be of interest as well.

Find a biography on di Cavour;  as a political figure, he was out-Bismarcking Bismarck before realpolitik had a name.  One of the greatest statesmen Italy ever produced.

And you can't do early 20th century Italian Marxist theory without reading Antonio Gramsci.  If you don't want to plow through his Prison Notebooks (and it is a plow, but Mussolini gave him plenty of prison time to write), try his Selected Readings;  good essay-sized bites.

Thanks, I've never even heard of di Cavour.  :)

I've only read a little bit of Gramsci.  Enough to cite to him for "cultural hegemony," but not enough to really know what he's talking about.  :Embarrass:

You want to know about Italy, but haven't heard of di Cavour? I suggest Wikipedia.


"Life under the dictatorship" by some Oxbridge Brit was quite good at laying out the pre-WWI social situation in that quilt that is Italy.

I suppose I am the only one who loved "The Prague Cemetary" by Eco. Was my holiday reading in Croatia last summer.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 10, 2014, 02:03:05 PM
Quote from: Beenherebefore on March 10, 2014, 01:56:11 PMYou want to know about Italy, but haven't heard of di Cavour? I suggest Wikipedia.

:Embarrass: I've honestly never read much great-statesmen classic political history. I'm shockingly ignorant about the 19th century in particular; don't know hardly a thing about German unification either.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 10, 2014, 02:04:53 PM
Quote from: Beenherebefore on March 10, 2014, 01:56:11 PM"Life under the dictatorship" by some Oxbridge Brit was quite good at laying out the pre-WWI social situation in that quilt that is Italy.

And after my local library gets that Wikipedia book you mentioned, I'll be sure to check this one out.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Beenherebefore on March 10, 2014, 02:08:34 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 10, 2014, 02:03:05 PM
Quote from: Beenherebefore on March 10, 2014, 01:56:11 PMYou want to know about Italy, but haven't heard of di Cavour? I suggest Wikipedia.

:Embarrass: I've honestly never read much great-statesmen classic political history. I'm shockingly ignorant about the 19th century in particular; don't know hardly a thing about German unification either.

Prussia. Bismarck. War. France. Done.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2014, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 10, 2014, 02:03:05 PM
:Embarrass: I've honestly never read much great-statesmen classic political history. I'm shockingly ignorant about the 19th century in particular; don't know hardly a thing about German unification either.

What you need to do is pick up a book on Garibaldi and the wars for Italian unification.  Great, swashbuckling story.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Beenherebefore on March 10, 2014, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2014, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 10, 2014, 02:03:05 PM
:Embarrass: I've honestly never read much great-statesmen classic political history. I'm shockingly ignorant about the 19th century in particular; don't know hardly a thing about German unification either.

What you need to do is pick up a book on Garibaldi and the wars for Italian unification.  Great, swashbuckling story.

Indeed. It's a story you just couldn't make up.
And, man, do they have many Garibaldi statues in Italy.

There's a lot written in the English language about Germany and the unification of Germany. Italy hasn't gotten the same number of volumes. Suffice to say, the general image I am left with is that Italy is a country in full disagreement with itself and a lot of regions that seem more important to the inhabitants than "Italy" does. Except when it comes to football.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on March 10, 2014, 02:51:18 PM
Quote from: Gups on March 10, 2014, 06:06:54 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on March 08, 2014, 10:13:51 PM
Who here has read Infinite Jest?  Currently tackling it.

I thought it was brilliant and irritating in equal measure. Probably the best book I'd never recommend to anyone.
This seems like the most accurate description of my experience thus far. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 10, 2014, 02:51:33 PM
Can someone recommend a book on Pitt the younger.  Seems a fascinating man.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 10, 2014, 09:13:31 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 10, 2014, 02:51:33 PM
Can someone recommend a book on Pitt the younger.  Seems a fascinating man.

bump,

Sheilbh, paging Sheilbh
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 10, 2014, 09:34:38 PM
William Hague's one volume biography got good reviews. Again, though, I've not read it - I'm woefully ignorant about Georgian Britain:
QuoteThree bottles a day
Simon Sebag Montefiore reviews William Pitt the Younger by William Hague

As William Pitt, aged just 46, lay dying in the early hours of January 23, 1806, exhausted by 18 years as first minister, by alcoholism, by the stress of running an endless war and the disappointment of hearing of Napoleon's victory at Austerlitz, his last words were characteristic.

First there was "Hear, hear" - appropriate for one of the great parliamentarians. Then there were the anxieties of a war leader whose fleet had recently won the battle of Trafalgar. He "frequently inquired the direction of the wind", and then said, answering himself: "East; ah; that will do." Finally, he sighed: "Oh my country! How I leave my country!" Therein was the selfless servant, famed for his sincerity, gravity, competence and probity, even in the ruthless, bombastic game of 18th-century politics.

Pitt became first minister when he was 24, and went on to become the longest-serving premier after Walpole, far ahead of Liverpool, Gladstone and Salisbury. Yet, partly because of the colossal scale of his short life and partly because of his reserved, awkward nature, he is little known as a man.

William Hague's biography follows an honourable tradition of politicians writing political lives - Churchill wrote about Marlborough and Roy Jenkins about Churchill. He brings out the relationship between Pitt the Elder and his son, but he is best on the politics. The section that describes young Pitt's entry to the House of Commons at 21 up to his appointment as premier is riveting. As Hague explains, this early success was partly to do with the hereditary principle - contemporaries were accustomed to seeing young men in positions of power - and partly a consequence of the loss of American colonies in 1783, an event that discredited a generation of politicians.

In power, Pitt displayed brilliant debating skills, remarkable administrative competence, and the sang-froid and ruthlessness required to build up power and win a landslide election. He ruled from 1784 until his resignation in 1801, before returning for two years as first minister in 1804. Hague impressively masters the great issues of the day: Roman Catholic emancipation, the Regency crisis on the occasion of George III's madness, and the great struggle of Pitt's career – the Napoleonic wars.

Hague's portrait of Pitt rings true: the ungainly, shy young man becomes a mischievous wit in the company of his old university friends. Indeed, one of the best anecdotes details how, in his forties, already ill and again premier, he had pillow-fights with his friends and family before changing his expression to greet ministers in a neighbouring room. Hague makes excellent use, too, of Pitt's revealing letters to his mother, which read like a typical young man's reports of life - except that the boy is first minister. Advised to drink port every day for medical reasons, Pitt became a "three-bottle-a-day man", and ended his life as an alcoholic. Equally fascinating is the way in which power not only exhausts and coarsens but also the way it isolates, so that, by the end, Pitt has fallen out with many old friends and even his greatest political ally, Henry Dundas.

His sexual life remains, as it should, an open question. Dundas, a crude Scottish politician, wagered that Pitt was a virgin and he probably died one - almost certainly the only prime-ministerial virgin. Or could he have been gay? Pitt certainly became close to protégés such as George Canning, yet he was also fond of Lady Eleanor Eden. Hague quotes from a letter Pitt wrote to Lady Eleanor's father, Lord Auckland: Pitt notes her attractions, yet withdraws his own interest, due to mysterious "insurmountable obstacles". Hague concludes that the cold discipline of power was his true mistress.

He does not claim that this book is based on vast original research, and rightly defers to John Ehrman's three-volume masterpiece, The Younger Pitt. A serious yet readable shorter life was much needed, and Hague has pulled this challenge off, making Pitt his own. He delivers not only a shrewd political biography, full of sharp analysis, but also a sensitive portrait of one of our most enigmatic heroes.

Pitt was a politician par excellence, so much in control that he could vomit out of the door of the Commons and recover to make a superb oration straight afterwards. Yet war, power and booze destroyed his hopes, friendships and health. Hague argues convincingly that Pitt died of a duodenal ulcer. The "pilot who weathered the storm" of war was respected by all and mourned by everyone, even by his enemy Charles James Fox, who reflected: "There was something missing in the world - a chasm, a blank that cannot be supplied."
http://www.amazon.co.uk/William-Pitt-Younger-A-Biography/dp/0007147201
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 10, 2014, 09:41:44 PM
I wouldn't be able to read that. I'd hear William Hague's voice as I was reading it, go mad by page 50 and shoot myself in the head.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 10, 2014, 09:45:05 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 10, 2014, 09:41:44 PM
I wouldn't be able to read that. I'd hear William Hague's voice as I was reading it, go mad by page 50 and shoot myself in the head.
God. I'm sorry you know William Hague's voice :weep:

At least it's not teenage William Hague's voice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL_p9qjfu5U
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 11, 2014, 12:20:20 PM
Thanks Sheilbh
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on March 12, 2014, 09:50:57 AM
I just finished the White Yajur Veda; which is a collection of liturgies for the various rites of the Vedic age.  It's more recent than the Rig Veda or the Samaveda so some concepts of modern Hinduism like the caste system and karma are more obvious and more defined.  There are some surprises in these rituals, like the horse-sacrifice ritual; but vegetarianism doesn't seem to be a widespread concept in the Vedic age.

There is (for Capetan Mihali) a somewhat better description of Soma in these rituals.  The plant needs to be dug up (rather than simply gathered), and has shoots.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 17, 2014, 08:25:07 PM
So Martin has a book coming out this fall detailing all the history (aka back history) of his world?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EGMGGVK/ref=pd_csr_hcb_youra_b_i
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 18, 2014, 12:24:08 AM
The Monster at the End of This Book

[spoiler]It's Grover [/spoiler]
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on March 18, 2014, 03:50:57 AM
Reading the autobiography of Benvenuto Cellini. It's pretty 'out there'.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on March 18, 2014, 05:55:18 PM
Dan Simmons' latest, Abominable.

Read it on the beach in Cuba.

I really enjoy Simmons' latest thriller/horror works, especially Terror which focussed on the doomed expedition into the NorthWest passage.

I'm a huge Everest fan (never climbed it, or ever will, but have read just about everyhting on it), so this book,which was about an unsanctioned climb up the mountain the year after Mallory's disappearance whetted my appetite.

It was kind of strange. The first two thirds read like a real Everest climb account. obviously well researched. It was only the final third that the novel strayed into "thriller" territory. --and it actually involved Hitler. A good read, but if reading about crampons, tents, icefalls, and general climbing history is not your cup of cold tea, then don't bother.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 18, 2014, 07:58:17 PM
Quote from: Maladict on March 18, 2014, 03:50:57 AM
Reading the autobiography of Benvenuto Cellini. It's pretty 'out there'.

I bet. :lol:  Is it worth reading?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on March 19, 2014, 05:38:45 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 18, 2014, 07:58:17 PM
I bet. :lol:  Is it worth reading?

So far, definitely. But I'm not sure how much ego I can take.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 19, 2014, 06:18:58 AM
I'm re-reading A Distant Mirror.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on March 19, 2014, 06:56:41 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 19, 2014, 06:18:58 AM
I'm re-reading A Distant Mirror.
I have that book, read some of it a while ago.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 19, 2014, 10:52:08 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 19, 2014, 06:18:58 AM
I'm re-reading A Distant Mirror.

The blessing of growing old and demented. All those new books. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 19, 2014, 11:34:14 AM
I could read "Proud Tower" again at some point, I think.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 19, 2014, 11:40:14 AM
Currently reading House of Leaves by Danielweski.  A bit trippy, as expected, but the story format isn't nearly as bizarre as I had been lead to believe.

Next up : Richard Overy's The Bombing War.   :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on March 19, 2014, 11:41:18 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 19, 2014, 11:40:14 AM
Currently reading House of Leaves by Danielweski.  A bit trippy, as expected, but the story format isn't nearly as bizarre as I had been lead to believe.

Next up : Richard Overy's The Bombing War.   :bowler:
I was ultimately very disappointed by Leaves. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 19, 2014, 11:46:01 AM
Quote from: KRonn on March 19, 2014, 06:56:41 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 19, 2014, 06:18:58 AM
I'm re-reading A Distant Mirror.
I have that book, read some of it a while ago.

While I liked the detail it provided on 14th century, I didn't care so much for the asides on the mentioned family or the attempt to tie it to 20th century conflicts. Felt a bit muddied.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 21, 2014, 12:49:46 PM
Quote from: Maladict on March 19, 2014, 05:38:45 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 18, 2014, 07:58:17 PM
I bet. :lol:  Is it worth reading?

So far, definitely. But I'm not sure how much ego I can take.

I ordered it for chump change on Amazon.  Looking forward to hearing what this practitioner of Mannerism, murder, and megalomania (or statuary, sodomy, and self-love) has to say about himself.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on March 21, 2014, 01:01:48 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 19, 2014, 11:40:14 AM
Currently reading House of Leaves by Danielweski.  A bit trippy, as expected, but the story format isn't nearly as bizarre as I had been lead to believe.

Next up : Richard Overy's The Bombing War.   :bowler:

Pre-review: "Airpower was an important element but only one of many factors that the Allies brought to blah blah blah" F
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 21, 2014, 01:04:07 PM
K.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on March 21, 2014, 01:12:13 PM
I'm just kidding.  I forget what Overy's overall opinion of the subject was.  But I think that's about on target; it is, after all, largely correct. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 21, 2014, 01:20:50 PM
There's a biography coming about Roy Jenkins :w00t: :wub:
QuoteRoy Jenkins: politics, parties and guilt-free adultery
He might have failed to become prime minister but Roy Jenkins had an awful lot of fun along the way
5 out of 5 stars

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.telegraph.co.uk%2Fmultimedia%2Farchive%2F02850%2Fjenkins_2850786b.jpg&hash=e9c056084a4d9c5fa03b76542d47fb451c48e113)
PM in waiting: Lord Jenkins Photo: Julian Calder/CORBIS

By Peter Oborne12:42PM GMT 13 Mar 2014 Comments76 Comments

Since the resignation of Clement Attlee in 1951, three politicians could be said to have initiated permanent change in Britain. Edward Heath piloted Britain into the Common Market, while Margaret Thatcher challenged union power and set us on a fresh economic course.

Only one Labour figure has a claim to have effected similarly momentous change: Roy Jenkins. Though he never became prime minister, his brief incumbency in the Home Office during the late Sixties coincided with a series of reforms to the laws concerning homosexuality, divorce, abortion and race relations that changed the nature of Britain almost overnight. John Campbell's captivating biography establishes his subject as one of the most significant political figures since the Second World War, while making an important parallel case for Jenkins' literary significance.

Jenkins was one of that small but fascinating group of front-rank politicians who were also substantial men of letters: Disraeli, Churchill, Michael Foot and (potentially) Boris Johnson also fall into this category. But Jenkins was also a social phenomenon. Though his father started life as a Welsh miner Jenkins was happiest among diplomats, writers, politicians, philosophers, academics and members of the cultivated upper class. One could call him the most successful social climber of the last century, except for the fact that Jenkins was indisputably grander than those whose company he aspired to keep. Entirely authentic, he insisted on living life on his own terms. He and his friends shared an enjoyment of food, wine, conversation, friendship and what the author refers to as "guilt-free adultery".

Campbell has been given full access to the Jenkins papers, and deals at some length with Jenkins' lovers. He says that Leslie Bonham Carter and Caroline Gilmour, both the wives of close friends, were the most important. Everyone involved, including his wife Jennifer (whom Jenkins married in 1945) knew about these relationships and were (says Campbell) happy with what was going on.

"Both women in their different ways," states Campbell, "exemplified the sort of upper-class society that Jenkins now inhabited in his private life when he was not being a Labour MP." There are some echoes here of the Bloomsbury set, the coterie of well-connected writers and intellectuals (though no major politicians) that established its personal standards of conduct in the Thirties.

Notoriously, many modern politicians enjoy private lives that sharply contradict the image of the public man or woman of rectitude. But Jenkins' private conduct fitted his public life like a glove. As Home Secretary he did not merely usher in permissive Britain, he was a cheerful participant in the new world he was helping to create. Very few politicians have been more in tune with their age.

There was, however, a contradiction between Jenkins and the Labour Party. Jenkins was essentially a Whig who enjoyed life too much for the Left-wing puritans. Ultimately this disagreement with the party into which he was born cost him the premiership. He was nevertheless one of the massive figures of his age, politically active from his arrival in the House of Commons in 1948 to his death in 2003. As Campbell notes, this parliamentary span of almost 55 years is surpassed only by Gladstone and Churchill.

His father Arthur Jenkins had been a miner before entering politics and became a close aide to Attlee afterwards. The young Roy Jenkins was invited to edit Attlee's speeches and his first book, at the age of 28, was a dutiful but pedestrian biography of his mentor. In reality Jenkins modelled himself, Campbell asserts, not on Attlee but on the Liberal Prime Minister Herbert Asquith. He thought, implausibly, that Attlee's Labour Party was the natural inheritor of Asquithian Liberalism.

Appropriately it was Mark Bonham Carter, the grandson of Asquith, who commissioned Jenkins' first major political biography: a Life of the Victorian radical Sir Charles Dilke. It reads poorly today, but was a great success when published in 1958. At this point Jenkins was widely seen as a writer who dabbled in politics. In 1963, with Labour on the edge of power, Jenkins was offered the editorship of The Economist. He was seriously tempted by the job and asked for the summer to think it over before turning it down.

In 1964, aged 43, Jenkins was appointed Minister of Aviation in wake of the Labour Party election victory. He immediately proved himself an outstanding minister, good enough to earn promotion to Home Secretary in 1965, a post he held for less than two years. Campbell summarises his achievements in that short period as follows: "he ended flogging in prisons; secured Government time to ensure the passage of Private Members' bills on both homosexuality and abortion; initiated the ending of theatre censorship; and introduced a ground-breaking Race Relations bill." More than any other 20th century politician, Roy Jenkins shaped the society we live in today.

John Campbell is fascinating on Jenkins' working methods. He got into the office at 10am. His officials were ordered to leave his diary open for an hour and a half to two hours in the middle of every day. Lunch would include at least one decent bottle of wine, quite possibly followed by brandy. He never took work home with him. Jenkins claimed to have reread the whole of Proust on being appointed to the Home Office. He also played tennis, raised a family, frequently went to the theatre, was an assiduous attender of country house parties and belonged to a large number of dining clubs. Critics accused Jenkins of being lazy. In truth he was very efficient at conducting business.

When Jim Callaghan was forced to resign as chancellor in wake off the 1967 devaluation crisis, Jenkins was the natural successor. He was as formidable a Chancellor as he had been Home Secretary. Campbell dispels the Left wing myth that his refusal to countenance a giveaway budget on the eve of the 1970 general election was the cause of Labour's defeat. "If anything," notes Campbell, "it was Jenkins' budget that very nearly won Labour an election it had never looked like winning before."

When he turned 50 in November 1970 he could look back on a career of effortless success. Many observers regarded him as the most brilliant politician in the country and thought that the Labour leadership, and the premiership, were his for the taking. Thereafter everything turned to ashes. He led the group of Labour MPs that voted with Edward Heath's Conservatives for the European Communities Act that took Britain into the European Common Market, then helped lead the 1975 referendum campaign on British membership.

This took place during Wilson's final term as Prime Minister, and Jenkins was Home Secretary again. But it was increasingly obvious that his future in the Labour Party was precarious. Jenkins gratefully accepted the offer of President of the European Commission in 1977. The job bored him and took him away from British politics. By the time he returned to Britain the Labour Party, now led by Michael Foot, had changed beyond recognition.

Jenkins then tried to set up a new centre party in British Politics, the Social Democratic Party. It failed miserably, soon merging with the Liberals. Jenkins spent the last 20 years of his life as a grand Lib Dem elder statesman. There was a hopeful moment when he believed that Tony Blair could be his natural successor, and mend the rift in the Left between Attlee's Labourism and Asquith's liberalism. By the time of his death in 2003, Jenkins had despaired of Blair. In one wounding aside, Jenkins observed that Blair ranked "between Wilson and Baldwin", a damning assessment if ever there was one.

Towards the end of his life he told friends that "I have three great interests left in politics: the single currency, electoral reform, and the union of the Liberals with Labour". All three came to nothing. Yet it would be wrong to write off Roy Jenkins' final decades as an irrelevance. He produced a series of dazzling political biographies and other works. Some of them (including his autobiography Life at the Centre, and his Life of Winston Churchill) count as classics. When he died on the January 5 2003, he was planning a full-scale biography of President Kennedy. According to Campbell, his was "an enviably painless passing and his final words to Jennifer were to ask for 'two eggs lightly poached'. When she came back with them he was gone".

I read every single one of the 749 pages of this long book with relish and fascination. It is a splendid tribute to one of the greatest British politicians and writers (not necessarily in that order) of the last century.

Roy Jenkins: a Well-Rounded Life by John Campbell
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 21, 2014, 01:30:18 PM
In France he's known as Le Roy Jenkins.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on March 21, 2014, 01:33:20 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 17, 2014, 08:25:07 PM
So Martin has a book coming out this fall detailing all the history (aka back history) of his world?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EGMGGVK/ref=pd_csr_hcb_youra_b_i

Yeah he has been working on it forever.  Just finished it.  As somebody rooting for him to finish his main series that was a relief.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on March 21, 2014, 05:11:09 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 21, 2014, 12:49:46 PM
Quote from: Maladict on March 19, 2014, 05:38:45 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 18, 2014, 07:58:17 PM
I bet. :lol:  Is it worth reading?

So far, definitely. But I'm not sure how much ego I can take.

I ordered it for chump change on Amazon.  Looking forward to hearing what this practitioner of Mannerism, murder, and megalomania (or statuary, sodomy, and self-love) has to say about himself.  :)

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 22, 2014, 08:41:40 PM
My Amazon splurge has arrived. :w00t:  It contains:

The Autobiography of Benvenuto Cellini
The Thirty Years' War: Europe's Tragedy, by Peter Wilson
The Cheese and the Worms: The Cosmos of a Sixteenth-Century Milller, by Carlo Ginzburg
Sexual Revolution in Bolshevik Russia by Gregory Carleton
(And a CD of Schubert's last three piano sonatas, performed by Alfred Brendel).

The first three all recommended to me here on Languish. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on March 22, 2014, 09:10:05 PM
Not some you'd read from cover to cover, but I aquired a Chambers anthology of speeches through the ages; a nice large 1000 page volume with the speeches print with wide margins, within which copious notes.*

Something to dip into occasionally, just read Malcolm X's 'The ballet or the bullet'



*incidentally, nice to buy a book printed on decent quality paper for a change.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 23, 2014, 06:28:21 PM
Another mid-twentieth century British history book that sounds very interesting:
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/mar/09/spy-among-friends-kim-philby-ben-macintyre-review

There is an alarming chance that by the end of the year I'll be eating rationed spam fritters in threadbare cardigans while listening to the radio.

In fairness I am two for three already :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 23, 2014, 06:29:34 PM
Hmmmm, fried spam.  :licklips:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2014, 07:33:23 PM
What's the skinny Shelf?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 24, 2014, 03:52:02 AM
Surprised that review of theJenkins biog doesn't mention the book's biggest scoop - that Jenkins had an affair with Tony Crosland when at Oxford.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 24, 2014, 08:25:41 PM
Quote from: Gups on March 24, 2014, 03:52:02 AM
Surprised that review of theJenkins biog doesn't mention the book's biggest scoop - that Jenkins had an affair with Tony Crosland when at Oxford.
It is by Peter Oborne. So he either didn't care, or was drunk when reading/writing the review.

I'm really enjoying Jenkins' Gladstone. It made me want to do a bit more reading on that era. Somehow that's lead me into reading Tim Blaning's 'Pursuit of Glory' which, so far, seems excellent and Hobsbawm's 'Age of Revolutions' which again is great with some really striking points. I think they're a good read together because they both have different perspectives and offer a bit more context when you're hopping from one to the other.

Edit: Also of quite niche interest, but I enjoyed this piece on Harold MacMillan's reading habits:
http://www.cercles.com/n11/catterall.pdf
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on March 25, 2014, 12:09:19 AM
Anyone know a good recent book on HIV-AIDS?  I want something that covers the Robert Rayford infection because I find that a gay prostitute died of it in middle America in 1969 really interesting and strange.  And the Band Played On is supposed to be great, though, and it was the primary influence on The Emperor of All Maladies, which was amazing. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 25, 2014, 12:30:21 AM
This is probably not at all what you're looking for but Thom Gunn's 1992 'The Man With Night Sweats' is an outstanding collection of poems many of which deal with the AIDS epidemic and the aftermath.

Gunn's probably my favourite modernish poet. He was associated with the movement and the return of form to English poetry. Then he moved to San Francisco and worked for a while under Yvor Winters who was an extremely rigorous formalist. But then he joined the counter-culture and took a lot of drugs (I think Edmund White said he was the only poet who could write a half-decent quatrain on LSD) and more of his poems became about gay life in San Francisco. So he ended up a poet who happened to be gay and a formalist who happened to often write in free verse. Which, I think, is partly why he's so great. He sometimes writes in terza rima, but also about the social etiquette of a sauna.

It's also why he wrote a volume that is kind-of about AIDS. There are AIDS elegies throughout and hints in other poems. Though they're not as worthy as lots of other literary responses to AIDS are. And I think in putting them in a 'miscellany' Gunn is quite deliberate.

His sort-of follow up in early 2000s, Boss Cupid, is also very good and again as you'd expect from a promiscuous gay man who survived 80s San Francisco, often touch on AIDS. Here's 'Still Life' from The Man With Night Sweats:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/the-sunday-poem-no-35-thom-gunn-1111476.html
I'd add I have huge issues with Mark Doty. Also I think that reading's a bit over-reverential. Isn't there a dark sexual humour in the image and especially the last line?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 25, 2014, 02:53:15 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 22, 2014, 08:41:40 PM
My Amazon splurge has arrived. :w00t:  It contains:

The Autobiography of Benvenuto Cellini
The Thirty Years' War: Europe's Tragedy, by Peter Wilson
The Cheese and the Worms: The Cosmos of a Sixteenth-Century Milller, by Carlo Ginzburg
Sexual Revolution in Bolshevik Russia by Gregory Carleton
(And a CD of Schubert's last three piano sonatas, performed by Alfred Brendel).

The first three all recommended to me here on Languish. :)
I'd be interested in the review of the 2nd book there.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 25, 2014, 03:52:57 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 24, 2014, 08:25:41 PM

I'm really enjoying Jenkins' Gladstone. It made me want to do a bit more reading on that era. Somehow that's lead me into reading Tim Blaning's 'Pursuit of Glory' which, so far, seems excellent and Hobsbawm's 'Age of Revolutions' which again is great with some really striking points. I think they're a good read together because they both have different perspectives and offer a bit more context when you're hopping from one to the other.

Edit: Also of quite niche interest, but I enjoyed this piece on Harold MacMillan's reading habits:
http://www.cercles.com/n11/catterall.pdf

I much prefer Jenkins' Gladstone to his Churchill, much more nuanced. His collection of mini-biogs of various Chancellors of the Exchequer is well worth seeking out.

Blanning's book is very good. YOu might also like (if you haven't read it already) NAM Rodger's brilliant "Command of the Ocean".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 25, 2014, 03:54:48 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 25, 2014, 02:53:15 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 22, 2014, 08:41:40 PM
My Amazon splurge has arrived. :w00t:  It contains:

The Autobiography of Benvenuto Cellini
The Thirty Years' War: Europe's Tragedy, by Peter Wilson
The Cheese and the Worms: The Cosmos of a Sixteenth-Century Milller, by Carlo Ginzburg
Sexual Revolution in Bolshevik Russia by Gregory Carleton
(And a CD of Schubert's last three piano sonatas, performed by Alfred Brendel).

The first three all recommended to me here on Languish. :)
I'd be interested in the review of the 2nd book there.

It's really dense - reammed full of facts and people and quite difficult to follow. I have up after 200 pages but may try it again when I have a lot of spare reading time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on March 25, 2014, 04:06:24 AM
Dante's Purgatorio is really great, I like it even better than Inferno.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 25, 2014, 07:55:51 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on March 25, 2014, 12:09:19 AM
Anyone know a good recent book on HIV-AIDS?  I want something that covers the Robert Rayford infection because I find that a gay prostitute died of it in middle America in 1969 really interesting and strange.  And the Band Played On is supposed to be great, though, and it was the primary influence on The Emperor of All Maladies, which was amazing.

That's totally dubious at this point.  He personally denied ever being a hustler -- it was an idea the doctors came up with that took hold, especially after revisiting the file in light of GRID/AIDS.  And I would hardly call the black ghetto of St. Louis in 1969 "middle America," at least in the sense we're familiar with. 

I can't deny that the Robert Rayford story (and the pre-history of AIDS in general) is fascinating, but it's shrouded in mystery that derives from both a real lack of information and from the way the white medical establishment of the period dealt with an impoverished black teenager with a venereal disease (chlamydia IIRC).  I've read a fair amount about it from online sources, but the most enlightening things were, in fact, the ones that made the story more obscure.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 25, 2014, 08:22:57 AM
Quote from: Gups on March 25, 2014, 03:54:48 AM
It's really dense - reammed full of facts and people and quite difficult to follow. I have up after 200 pages but may try it again when I have a lot of spare reading time.

I have to agree. I found the book best when it was discussing the underlying politics and processes of the war, which it does rather extensively The long campaign descriptions are a lot of "Army 1 goes to Place 2, gets cut of by Army 3 who was seeking Army 4 while Army 5 moves to Place 6 shortly after Army 4 left for Place 2 trying to catch Army 1" etc. In short - very confusing and hard to follow.

Still, it's probably the best book you will find about the Thirty Years War.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 25, 2014, 08:36:13 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 25, 2014, 08:22:57 AM
Quote from: Gups on March 25, 2014, 03:54:48 AM
It's really dense - reammed full of facts and people and quite difficult to follow. I have up after 200 pages but may try it again when I have a lot of spare reading time.

I have to agree. I found the book best when it was discussing the underlying politics and processes of the war, which it does rather extensively

I'm at this point in the book and enjoying it.  There are at least 100-200 pages before you even reach 1618.  But since I knew next to nothing about the HRE, it's very helpful, but yeah, dense and complicated.  Although given how dense and complicated the workings of the HRE appear to have been, it may be unavoidable
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on March 25, 2014, 09:01:11 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 25, 2014, 07:55:51 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on March 25, 2014, 12:09:19 AM
Anyone know a good recent book on HIV-AIDS?  I want something that covers the Robert Rayford infection because I find that a gay prostitute died of it in middle America in 1969 really interesting and strange.  And the Band Played On is supposed to be great, though, and it was the primary influence on The Emperor of All Maladies, which was amazing.

That's totally dubious at this point.  He personally denied ever being a hustler -- it was an idea the doctors came up with that took hold, especially after revisiting the file in light of GRID/AIDS.  And I would hardly call the black ghetto of St. Louis in 1969 "middle America," at least in the sense we're familiar with. 

I can't deny that the Robert Rayford story (and the pre-history of AIDS in general) is fascinating, but it's shrouded in mystery that derives from both a real lack of information and from the way the white medical establishment of the period dealt with an impoverished black teenager with a venereal disease (chlamydia IIRC).  I've read a fair amount about it from online sources, but the most enlightening things were, in fact, the ones that made the story more obscure.
1) He died of AIDS in the late 60s and had a host of other STDs. What reason would there be to not suspect he was having regular gay sex? Or that he was a gay prostitute? The doctors suspected it at the time, a decade before GRID was on the radar.
2) I get that black ghettos of St. Louis aren't 50s "middle America" but it's still, you know, a thousand miles from ports where you'd suspect to see the first cases of a disease with Central African origin. Worth remembering that Gaetan Dugas was a flight attendant and that the NYC Bicentennial celebration brought people in from every corner of the globe. Rayford suggests there was already some background level of the disease among Haitian or African immigrants even in the middle of America.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 25, 2014, 10:09:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 25, 2014, 08:22:57 AM
Quote from: Gups on March 25, 2014, 03:54:48 AM
It's really dense - reammed full of facts and people and quite difficult to follow. I have up after 200 pages but may try it again when I have a lot of spare reading time.

I have to agree. I found the book best when it was discussing the underlying politics and processes of the war, which it does rather extensively The long campaign descriptions are a lot of "Army 1 goes to Place 2, gets cut of by Army 3 who was seeking Army 4 while Army 5 moves to Place 6 shortly after Army 4 left for Place 2 trying to catch Army 1" etc. In short - very confusing and hard to follow.

Still, it's probably the best book you will find about the Thirty Years War.

Yeah. The part I liked best was the background to the war. Once the war started things got less interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 25, 2014, 02:08:25 PM
The political bits that show up throughout the book are still pretty good, though (e.g. Sweden's financial machinations, Spain's sending of troops up north, France's stance etc.).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 25, 2014, 09:11:07 PM
QuoteLong-lost story from Tennessee Williams discovered
By Christian DuChateau, CNN

CNN) -- After it spent decades buried in library archives, a newly discovered story from playwright Tennessee Williams was published this month.

The story, titled "Crazy Night," appears in the new issue of The Strand mystery magazine released March 25, and coincides with the 70-year anniversary of Williams' classic play "The Glass Menagerie."

Andrew F. Gulli, managing editor of The Strand, recently uncovered the 14-page manuscript at the University of Texas at Austin's Harry Ransom Center. Gulli says he was researching the Mississippi-born writer when he came across what he describes as a "treasure trove" of Williams' personal papers and documents.

Williams is one of America's best-known and most revered playwrights. During the peak of his career in the 1940s and '50s, he was praised by critics and scorned by social conservatives for tackling taboo subjects of the time, including rape, incest and homosexuality.

Many of his plays were turned into hit movies featuring Hollywood stars such as Marlon Brando and Elizabeth Taylor. Williams twice won the Pulitzer Prize and was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Williams died in 1983.

Gulli was initially skeptical that the story had never before been published, but several experts, including an agent for Williams' literary estate, said they'd never heard of it.

"I thought it was captivating," Gulli says. "It's raw but has a fresh voice and shows a great deal of maturity for his age."

Williams, who was born in 1911, wrote "Crazy Night" in his early 20s, years before his Broadway success with plays such as "A Streetcar Named Desire" and "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof."

In the semi-autobiographical story, a troubled college freshman faces flunking out of school on the last night of spring term. It explores themes of love and deceit and includes a thinly veiled reference to Williams' romance with one of his college classmates.

"To me, it's a great highlight to find something new from somebody I grew up revering," Gulli says.

Gulli has a knack for finding long-lost works. In the last five years, he's discovered previously unpublished stories and essays from authors including Agatha Christie, Graham Greene, H.G. Wells and Mark Twain. But Gulli says he has a soft spot for Williams.

"To me he's as relevant today as he was when his works were first published," Gulli said.

Indeed, many of Williams plays are still performed today. "The Glass Menagerie" first premiered in New York on March 31, 1945, and a revival recently wrapped a successful run on Broadway.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 25, 2014, 09:18:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 25, 2014, 09:11:07 PM

Gulli has a knack for finding long-lost works.
In the last five years, he's discovered previously unpublished stories and essays from authors including Agatha Christie, Graham Greene, H.G. Wells and Mark Twain. But Gulli says he has a soft spot for Williams.

How convenient, how sure are we that he's not the author. :tinfoil:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on March 25, 2014, 09:22:28 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 25, 2014, 09:18:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 25, 2014, 09:11:07 PM

Gulli has a knack for finding long-lost works.
In the last five years, he's discovered previously unpublished stories and essays from authors including Agatha Christie, Graham Greene, H.G. Wells and Mark Twain. But Gulli says he has a soft spot for Williams.

How convenient, how sure are we that he's not the author. :tinfoil:

He's an immortal, living multiple lives throughout history ?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on March 26, 2014, 03:19:16 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 25, 2014, 08:22:57 AM
Quote from: Gups on March 25, 2014, 03:54:48 AM
It's really dense - reammed full of facts and people and quite difficult to follow. I have up after 200 pages but may try it again when I have a lot of spare reading time.

I have to agree. I found the book best when it was discussing the underlying politics and processes of the war, which it does rather extensively The long campaign descriptions are a lot of "Army 1 goes to Place 2, gets cut of by Army 3 who was seeking Army 4 while Army 5 moves to Place 6 shortly after Army 4 left for Place 2 trying to catch Army 1" etc. In short - very confusing and hard to follow.

Still, it's probably the best book you will find about the Thirty Years War.

Oddly enough I found the battle and campaign descriptions to be as enthralling as the politics; for example it contains the best outline of White Mountain that I've seen in any of the books that I've read on the Thirty Years War (most histories tend to go into more detail on this subject around Breitenfeld as if they find the Bohemian campaign and those of the Paladins, Tilly and early Wallenstein to be either too tedious or to complex; whereas I've always found it fascinating the way these early participants seemed to be able to raise armies at the drop of a hat.)

Anyway, I'd heartily recommend the book but it's certainly not for the light reader.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on March 28, 2014, 04:57:07 PM
I really enjoyed Shattered Sword.  I recommend Berkut as a recommender.


Now I'm reading Norman Friedman's US Battleships.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on April 04, 2014, 08:16:48 AM
The Admirals: Nimitz, Halsey, Leahy, and King--The Five-Star Admirals Who Won the War at Sea by Walter R. Borneman.

Decent group bio, I was largely unaware of Leahy and King.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on April 04, 2014, 08:19:07 AM
And these came in today:
The Safeguard of the Sea: A Naval History of Britain 660-1649
The Command of the Ocean: A Naval History of Britain, 1649-1815
:bowler:

The to-read pile has grown to 46 books :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on April 04, 2014, 09:29:37 AM
Quote from: Maladict on April 04, 2014, 08:19:07 AM
And these came in today:
The Safeguard of the Sea: A Naval History of Britain 660-1649
The Command of the Ocean: A Naval History of Britain, 1649-1815
:bowler:

The to-read pile has grown to 46 books :(

Both excellent and The Command of the Ocean may well be my favourite non-fiction book ever.

Currently reading a natutical Danish novel called "We, the Drowned". Half way through and it's very good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on April 04, 2014, 10:35:47 AM
Quote from: Maladict on April 04, 2014, 08:19:07 AM
And these came in today:
The Safeguard of the Sea: A Naval History of Britain 660-1649
The Command of the Ocean: A Naval History of Britain, 1649-1815
:bowler:

The to-read pile has grown to 46 books :(

Those are both terrific works.  A shame the third will not be out until 2041.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 05, 2014, 08:27:36 PM
Any recommendations on early-mid 19th century Britain?

QuoteThe Safeguard of the Sea: A Naval History of Britain 660-1649
The Command of the Ocean: A Naval History of Britain, 1649-1815
I was amazed how quickly I read the first one. I've got the second one on my shelf, though I've not read it yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on April 05, 2014, 10:00:07 PM
Anyone recommend anything on the Vedic religions? 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 07, 2014, 10:55:31 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 05, 2014, 10:00:07 PM
Anyone recommend anything on the Vedic religions?

There is a recent one that was banned in India.  Could go either way on that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 11, 2014, 07:52:11 PM
Is 'The German Genius' any good?

Anyone know any other good books on the German Enlightenment and Romanticism?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on April 11, 2014, 08:12:39 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 25, 2014, 07:55:51 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on March 25, 2014, 12:09:19 AM
Anyone know a good recent book on HIV-AIDS?  I want something that covers the Robert Rayford infection because I find that a gay prostitute died of it in middle America in 1969 really interesting and strange.  And the Band Played On is supposed to be great, though, and it was the primary influence on The Emperor of All Maladies, which was amazing.

That's totally dubious at this point.  He personally denied ever being a hustler -- it was an idea the doctors came up with that took hold, especially after revisiting the file in light of GRID/AIDS.  And I would hardly call the black ghetto of St. Louis in 1969 "middle America," at least in the sense we're familiar with. 


That's true.  The mean center of population in 1969 was like three counties over in Illinois.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 12, 2014, 03:09:21 AM
Can anyone recommend a good colonial history of the Americas, from exploration to the independence of the colonies? Or something along those lines?

(And yes, I've watched Once Upon a Time ... The Americas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_Upon_a_Time..._The_Americas)  :P )
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on April 12, 2014, 05:57:15 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 12, 2014, 03:09:21 AM
Can anyone recommend a good colonial history of the Americas, from exploration to the independence of the colonies? Or something along those lines?


Samuel Eliot Morison's European Discovery of America is very good (exploration and earliest colonies only).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on April 12, 2014, 11:01:50 PM
:w00t: Addicts Who Survived: An Oral History of Narcotic Use in America Before 1965 by the great drug historian David Courtwright, has arrived.  Addressing the "classic" (i.e. purely punitive) period of American narcotics regulation, from 1923 (when the last public heroin maintenance clinics in NYC and Shreveport, La. closed) to 1965 (when methadone maintenance arrived on the scene). 

A welcome addition to the narcotics shelf, alongside other recent arrivals, Global Histories of Cocaine and Drugs and Stimulants in Iranian History.  I think I'm developing a drug-history addiction. :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 12, 2014, 11:52:14 PM
Quote from: Maladict on April 12, 2014, 05:57:15 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 12, 2014, 03:09:21 AM
Can anyone recommend a good colonial history of the Americas, from exploration to the independence of the colonies? Or something along those lines?


Samuel Eliot Morison's European Discovery of America is very good (exploration and earliest colonies only).

Thanks, I'll check it out.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on April 13, 2014, 11:05:18 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 12, 2014, 11:52:14 PM

Thanks, I'll check it out.

They're probably out of print, but you should be able to find them on abebooks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 13, 2014, 11:25:47 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 12, 2014, 11:01:50 PM
:w00t: Addicts Who Survived: An Oral History of Narcotic Use in America Before 1965 by the great drug historian David Courtwright, has arrived.  Addressing the "classic" (i.e. purely punitive) period of American narcotics regulation, from 1923 (when the last public heroin maintenance clinics in NYC and Shreveport, La. closed) to 1965 (when methadone maintenance arrived on the scene). 

A welcome addition to the narcotics shelf, alongside other recent arrivals, Global Histories of Cocaine and Drugs and Stimulants in Iranian History.  I think I'm developing a drug-history addiction. :blush:

Have you ever read The Black Candle? Facinating stuff, one foundation of Canada's anti-drug policy. Written by a very influential woman - the first female judge in the British Empire, a protagonist in the famous "persons" case (a leading Canadian constitutional case that determined that "persons" in a statute included women).

QuoteEmily Murphy (born Emily Gowan Ferguson; 14 March 1868 – 17 October 1933) was a Canadian women's rights activist, jurist, and author. In 1916, she became the first female magistrate in Canada, and in the British Empire. She is best known for her contributions to Canadian feminism, specifically to the question of whether women were "persons" under Canadian law.

Murphy is known as one of the "The Famous Five" (also called "The Valiant Five")[1]—a group of Canadian women's rights activists that also included Henrietta Muir Edwards, Nellie McClung, Louise McKinney and Irene Parlby. In 1927, the women launched the "Persons Case," contending that women could be "qualified persons" eligible to sit in the Senate. The Supreme Court of Canada ruled that they were not. However, upon appeal to the Judicial Committee of the British Privy Council, the court of last resort for Canada at that time, the women won their case.

She was a pioneer of women's rights - on the issue of drugs, however, she was (by modern standards) hilariously racist. Essentially, drugs are bad in large part because non-White races use them to degenerate Whites down to their own mongrel level. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Murphy

https://archive.org/stream/TheBlackCandle/MurphyBlackCandletoronto1922_djvu.txt
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on April 13, 2014, 12:26:14 PM
Quote from: Maladict on April 04, 2014, 08:19:07 AM
And these came in today:
The Safeguard of the Sea: A Naval History of Britain 660-1649
The Command of the Ocean: A Naval History of Britain, 1649-1815
:bowler:

The to-read pile has grown to 46 books :(
I've been waiting for the third one forever.  Those are good books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on April 13, 2014, 04:48:42 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 13, 2014, 11:25:47 AM
Have you ever read The Black Candle? Facinating stuff, one foundation of Canada's anti-drug policy. Written by a very influential woman - the first female judge in the British Empire, a protagonist in the famous "persons" case (a leading Canadian constitutional case that determined that "persons" in a statute included women).

I haven't read much at all on Canada's drug history, but that looks very interesting. Thanks for the recommendation.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on April 17, 2014, 08:49:11 PM
Newly arrived at The Wolf's Lair:

The Collapse of Rome: Marius, Sulla and the First Civil War

Sertorius and the Struggle for Spain

:w00t:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on April 17, 2014, 08:50:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 17, 2014, 08:49:11 PM
Newly arrived at The Wolf's Lair:

The Collapse of Rome: Marius, Sulla and the First Civil War

Sertorius and the Struggle for Spain

:w00t:

How boring.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 18, 2014, 12:02:48 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 17, 2014, 08:49:11 PM
Newly arrived at The Wolf's Lair:

The Collapse of Rome: Marius, Sulla and the First Civil War

Sertorius and the Struggle for Spain

:w00t:
A shame you always root for the villian. ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on April 18, 2014, 06:35:39 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 17, 2014, 08:50:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 17, 2014, 08:49:11 PM
Newly arrived at The Wolf's Lair:

The Collapse of Rome: Marius, Sulla and the First Civil War

Sertorius and the Struggle for Spain

:w00t:

How boring.

I used to be like you. Everything World War Two. Then  I grew up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on April 18, 2014, 06:40:42 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 18, 2014, 06:35:39 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 17, 2014, 08:50:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 17, 2014, 08:49:11 PM
Newly arrived at The Wolf's Lair:

The Collapse of Rome: Marius, Sulla and the First Civil War

Sertorius and the Struggle for Spain

:w00t:

How boring.

I used to be like you. Everything World War Two. Then  I grew up.

You used to be stupid?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 18, 2014, 06:42:51 AM
World Number Two.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on April 18, 2014, 06:51:52 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 18, 2014, 06:40:42 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 18, 2014, 06:35:39 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 17, 2014, 08:50:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 17, 2014, 08:49:11 PM
Newly arrived at The Wolf's Lair:

The Collapse of Rome: Marius, Sulla and the First Civil War

Sertorius and the Struggle for Spain

:w00t:

How boring.

I used to be like you. Everything World War Two. Then  I grew up.

You used to be stupid?

Hey now, watch it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 18, 2014, 07:00:55 AM
How gallant! Sir Ed protects fair maiden 11B.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on April 18, 2014, 07:52:09 AM
Grendel is attacking.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on April 18, 2014, 08:20:47 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 13, 2014, 11:25:47 AM
She was a pioneer of women's rights - on the issue of drugs, however, she was (by modern standards) hilariously racist. Essentially, drugs are bad in large part because non-White races use them to degenerate Whites down to their own mongrel level. 

Yeah we had some of that in our women's suffrage movement.  I mean black men could vote (in some localities anyway) and they barely qualified as human beings so how outrageous was it that good white women couldn't vote?  Doh.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on April 18, 2014, 08:36:32 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 18, 2014, 08:20:47 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 13, 2014, 11:25:47 AM
She was a pioneer of women's rights - on the issue of drugs, however, she was (by modern standards) hilariously racist. Essentially, drugs are bad in large part because non-White races use them to degenerate Whites down to their own mongrel level. 

Yeah we had some of that in our women's suffrage movement.  I mean black men could vote (in some localities anyway) and they barely qualified as human beings so how outrageous was it that good white women couldn't vote?  Doh.

Well, there's a whole element of strategic politics in almost any movement, where you try to leverage the prejudices (good or bad) of the powerful in your favor.

BTW, I'm enjoying "The Black Candle" on Gutenberg.  It's surprisingly well-written and thoughtful for an anti-drug tract of the period.  There's an interesting rhetorical thread where she's trying to formulate something distinctively Canadian for drug policy, even though most of the data on drug addiction and the most aggressive polices are coming out of the US.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 18, 2014, 08:48:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 18, 2014, 08:20:47 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 13, 2014, 11:25:47 AM
She was a pioneer of women's rights - on the issue of drugs, however, she was (by modern standards) hilariously racist. Essentially, drugs are bad in large part because non-White races use them to degenerate Whites down to their own mongrel level. 

Yeah we had some of that in our women's suffrage movement.  I mean black men could vote (in some localities anyway) and they barely qualified as human beings so how outrageous was it that good white women couldn't vote?  Doh.
It always reminds me of the Pankhursts. Emmeline Pankhurst ended up standing as a Conservative MP. One of her daughters moved to California and became a Second Adventist evangelist. Another was a left Communist who was invited to Ethiopia by Selasie in honour of her campaigns against the Italian invasion, and later given a state funeral in Addis. The third ended up founding the Communist party in Australia and then founding a fascist movement too, she was interned during the war for her pro-Japanese views.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on April 18, 2014, 09:00:33 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 18, 2014, 08:36:32 AM
Well, there's a whole element of strategic politics in almost any movement, where you try to leverage the prejudices (good or bad) of the powerful in your favor.

LOL ok.  I guess when some of them out in favor of lynching to protect women from being raped that was just a strategic ploy to leverage prejudices?  In any case it is just amusing from this distance.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on April 18, 2014, 09:10:41 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 18, 2014, 09:00:33 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 18, 2014, 08:36:32 AM
Well, there's a whole element of strategic politics in almost any movement, where you try to leverage the prejudices (good or bad) of the powerful in your favor.

LOL ok.  I guess when some of them out in favor of lynching to protect women from being raped that was just a strategic ploy to leverage prejudices?  In any case it is just amusing from this distance.

LOL I'm not saying that the predominately middle-/upper-class white women spearheading the suffragist/women's rights campaign weren't also virulent racists; I think that is amply borne out in the historical record.  (Not having to do with the vote, but it's well-known that a number of leading Progressive women's rights leaders were also passionate eugenicists.)  Only that it's not surprising that if you, as a white woman, are trying to get the vote, that part of your strategy would be pointing to the fact that suffrage has been extended to men of a race considered inferior by the powerful white men in control of the political system, and drawing the contrast against yourselves as members of the "superior" race.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on April 18, 2014, 09:22:17 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 18, 2014, 09:10:41 AM
Only that it's not surprising that if you, as a white woman, are trying to get the vote, that part of your strategy would be pointing to the fact that suffrage has been extended to men of a race considered inferior by the powerful white men in control of the political system, and drawing the contrast against yourselves as members of the "superior" race.

In the context I usually see this sort of thing it seems almost as a way to recruit other white women to the cause as much as draw up an effective political strategy.  Also people in the 19th century tended to be more earnest, this strikes me as a very 20th century line of thinking.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on April 18, 2014, 09:25:46 AM
Rereading Geary's Phantoms of Remembrance: Memory and Oblivion at the End of the First Millennium.  Good stuff, I like the rather explicit 11th century notions that if the histories don't match up to how the past should be remembered, it is right and proper to redo the histories.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 19, 2014, 10:14:52 PM
Anyone have any recommendations on Austrian history?

I've recently read a book about the 18th century where they come up a lot, and I've started reading Sleepwalkers and I'm just a little baffled how Austria-Hungary existed at all :mellow:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 20, 2014, 01:12:40 AM
Amazon seems to recommend this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Danubia-Personal-History-Habsburg-Europe/dp/0330522787/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397973986&sr=8-1&keywords=habsburgs

Or this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Habsburgs-History-Dynasty-Dynasties/dp/1441150021/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1397973996&sr=8-2&keywords=habsburgs
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on April 25, 2014, 02:14:18 AM
Eric Schlosser - Command and Control: Nuclear Weapons, the Damascus Accident, and the Illusion of Safety

Good book, but why are we still alive?  :blink:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 25, 2014, 04:03:19 PM
Currently reading Embers of War, by Fredrik Logevall, about the French-Vietnam War, sometimes called the First Indochina War (the US fought the second). It is very good (it won the 2013 Pulitzer).

My question is: is there a good book on what happened in SE Asia after the US lost in Vietnam? I know that, contrary to "domino theory" predictions, rather than exporting unitary Communism throughout the region, the communist states all turned on each other (communist Vietnam invaded communist Cambodia, and was invaded in turn by communist China). Is there any single book dealing with this, that can be recommended?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on April 25, 2014, 04:13:20 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 25, 2014, 04:03:19 PM
Currently reading Embers of War, by Fredrik Logevall, about the French-Vietnam War, sometimes called the First Indochina War (the US fought the second). It is very good (it won the 2013 Pulitzer).

My question is: is there a good book on what happened in SE Asia after the US lost in Vietnam? I know that, contrary to "domino theory" predictions, rather than exporting unitary Communism throughout the region, the communist states all turned on each other (communist Vietnam invaded communist Cambodia, and was invaded in turn by communist China). Is there any single book dealing with this, that can be recommended?

My former school history teacher was a bit of an expert on this but I think all his stuff is out of print, but it was spread across his work anyway.

I've not come across anything, besides you're only talking about a relatively small region and only a 5-6 year period before major reforms get going in China, so it might be more than adequately covered in a wider history?


Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 25, 2014, 04:26:43 PM
Quote from: mongers on April 25, 2014, 04:13:20 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 25, 2014, 04:03:19 PM
Currently reading Embers of War, by Fredrik Logevall, about the French-Vietnam War, sometimes called the First Indochina War (the US fought the second). It is very good (it won the 2013 Pulitzer).

My question is: is there a good book on what happened in SE Asia after the US lost in Vietnam? I know that, contrary to "domino theory" predictions, rather than exporting unitary Communism throughout the region, the communist states all turned on each other (communist Vietnam invaded communist Cambodia, and was invaded in turn by communist China). Is there any single book dealing with this, that can be recommended?

My former school history teacher was a bit of an expert on this but I think all his stuff is out of print, but it was spread across his work anyway.

I've not come across anything, besides you're only talking about a relatively small region and only a 5-6 year period before major reforms get going in China, so it might be more than adequately covered in a wider history?

It's a short time period, but tons of shit happened in it (Khmer Rouge, invasion and displacement of same by Vietnam, Vietnam "Boat People" crisis, Invasion of Vietnam by China). I would have thought it would make a very interesting study - particularly in light of the expectations that fueled the Vietnam wars.

As an aside, my mom hired a couple of "boat people" to work in her pottery studeo in the early '80s. A pair of nice, quiet and hard-working girls - sisters. You would never guess that they had watched their mom be raped and murdered by pirates.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on April 25, 2014, 04:32:25 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 25, 2014, 04:26:43 PM
Quote from: mongers on April 25, 2014, 04:13:20 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 25, 2014, 04:03:19 PM
Currently reading Embers of War, by Fredrik Logevall, about the French-Vietnam War, sometimes called the First Indochina War (the US fought the second). It is very good (it won the 2013 Pulitzer).

My question is: is there a good book on what happened in SE Asia after the US lost in Vietnam? I know that, contrary to "domino theory" predictions, rather than exporting unitary Communism throughout the region, the communist states all turned on each other (communist Vietnam invaded communist Cambodia, and was invaded in turn by communist China). Is there any single book dealing with this, that can be recommended?

My former school history teacher was a bit of an expert on this but I think all his stuff is out of print, but it was spread across his work anyway.

I've not come across anything, besides you're only talking about a relatively small region and only a 5-6 year period before major reforms get going in China, so it might be more than adequately covered in a wider history?

It's a short time period, but tons of shit happened in it (Khmer Rouge, invasion and displacement of same by Vietnam, Vietnam "Boat People" crisis, Invasion of Vietnam by China). I would have thought it would make a very interesting study - particularly in light of the expectations that fueled the Vietnam wars.

As an aside, my mom hired a couple of "boat people" to work in her pottery studeo in the early '80s. A pair of nice, quiet and hard-working girls - sisters. You would never guess that they had watched their mom be raped and murdered by pirates.  :(

Oh dear.  :(

Indeed a lot happened, i guess as I remember living through it, much seems familiar and so less complex.

No doubt someone out here has written about US relations with the Khmer Rouge, from fighting the last battle in the 'Vietnam conflict' against them to within 4 years, tacitly supporting them via Thailand, in their border fight with Hun Sen's Vietnamese backed Cambodia. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 25, 2014, 04:37:57 PM
Biosafety in Microbiological and Biomedical Laboratories, 5th ed.

Woof.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 28, 2014, 05:17:02 PM
I finished Gladstone and Pursuit of Glory.

I really recommend Pursuit of Glory. It's really impressive that Tim Blanning managed to write a survey history that was that interesting and didn't seem too superficial.

Currently I'm on a recent biography of Parnell, Ireland Since the Famine and still working through Age of Revolution. Also just got a mini e-book by Ryan Avent of the Economist, the Gated City which looks very interesting and a free Len Deighton novel free from Amazon for world book day :w00t:

I'm looking forward to it. I love the Len Deighton-Michael Caine films so I've got high hopes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on April 28, 2014, 06:58:35 PM
I've been reading The Epic of Latin America by John Crow.  The author goes into details about the universities in the colonial period.  At the end of studies the successful candidate for a degree was expected to throw a lavish party.  In Lima, at the University of San Marco, the graduate was expected to host a bullfight (¡Olé!).  Say what you like about the out of control costs of American universities, at least we haven't reached that level.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on April 28, 2014, 07:32:33 PM
Just started reading the collected short stories of Richard Matheson. When I was a teenager and still couldn't read English only his two most famous novels were published in Spanish (The Incredible Shrinking Man and I am Legend), so this will settle and old account.

Strangely, I'm finding the ones that were turned into Twilight Zone episodes to be the weakest, but that's probably because I have seen those countless of times.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on April 29, 2014, 03:01:21 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 28, 2014, 05:17:02 PM
I really recommend Pursuit of Glory. It's really impressive that Tim Blanning managed to write a survey history that was that interesting and didn't seem too superficial.

While I agree it's a very good book, I found it a terrible slog to read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 29, 2014, 03:15:57 AM
Quote from: Maladict on April 29, 2014, 03:01:21 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 28, 2014, 05:17:02 PM
I really recommend Pursuit of Glory. It's really impressive that Tim Blanning managed to write a survey history that was that interesting and didn't seem too superficial.

While I agree it's a very good book, I found it a terrible slog to read.

I don't know. Because of the wide range of topics and anecdotes he covered I found it was an absolute breeze to read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on May 02, 2014, 04:27:47 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 29, 2014, 03:15:57 AM
Quote from: Maladict on April 29, 2014, 03:01:21 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 28, 2014, 05:17:02 PM
I really recommend Pursuit of Glory. It's really impressive that Tim Blanning managed to write a survey history that was that interesting and didn't seem too superficial.

While I agree it's a very good book, I found it a terrible slog to read.

I don't know. Because of the wide range of topics and anecdotes he covered I found it was an absolute breeze to read.

Yeah, I'm not sure why I had such issues with it. It seemed a fine enough book.
To be re-read, perhaps.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on May 02, 2014, 04:32:02 AM
The Rings of Saturn by W G Sebald.
Liking this a lot. A walk in East Anglia prompts diverse reflections and additional narrators that blend together. Good stuff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 02, 2014, 02:15:43 PM
Saw this at my bookstore today:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.incrediblethings.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2FWilliam-Shakespeares-Star-Wars-1.jpg&hash=598aedc66fda61c7d70d4e8ac3ff9ee8e8e9ab57)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwalyou.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F%2F2013%2F12%2FWilliam-Shakespeares-Star-Wars-01.jpg&hash=85a0f03138802c984e1c991d84873f2b01a141f0)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 02, 2014, 02:20:44 PM
 :yucky:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on May 02, 2014, 02:57:42 PM
I think Shakespeare would have done it better.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 02, 2014, 03:00:04 PM
Son I am discontent.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 02, 2014, 04:48:04 PM
I recently got a new delivery, including the following.

Evans and Peattie, Kaigun: Strategy, Tactics and Technology in the IMPERIAL JAPANESE NAVY 1887-1941.

Peattie, Sunburst: The Rise of Japanese Naval Air Power, 1909-1941.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Norgy on May 02, 2014, 06:15:08 PM
What an eclectic selection.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 02, 2014, 11:54:17 PM
Quote from: Norgy on May 02, 2014, 06:15:08 PM
What an eclectic selection.

No shit.  Everybody knows Empire Strikes Back is much more Shakespearean-appropriate material.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 03, 2014, 02:47:20 AM
They did The Empire Striketh Back as well. :P

I picked up Dante's Divine Comedy, though. I was looking for an edition that had its annotations as footnotes, and finally found one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on May 03, 2014, 04:25:44 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 03, 2014, 02:47:20 AM


I picked up Dante's Divine Comedy, though. I was looking for an edition that had its annotations as footnotes, and finally found one.

Which one did you get?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 03, 2014, 05:00:41 AM
Quote from: Maladict on May 03, 2014, 04:25:44 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 03, 2014, 02:47:20 AM


I picked up Dante's Divine Comedy, though. I was looking for an edition that had its annotations as footnotes, and finally found one.

Which one did you get?

:huh: The Star Wars one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 03, 2014, 05:45:15 AM
Quote from: Maladict on May 03, 2014, 04:25:44 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 03, 2014, 02:47:20 AM


I picked up Dante's Divine Comedy, though. I was looking for an edition that had its annotations as footnotes, and finally found one.

Which one did you get?

"New translation by J.G. Nichols". It was the only English one on the shelf, and I already have a copy in German.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 03, 2014, 07:54:55 AM
Finished The Battle for China. Essays were decent and the book generally made sense. Anyone interested in the Sino-Japanese war of 37-45 and who doesn't read Japanese or Chinese should definitely take a look at it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 10, 2014, 07:03:56 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 02, 2014, 04:48:04 PM
I recently got a new delivery, including the following.

Evans and Peattie, Kaigun: Strategy, Tactics and Technology in the IMPERIAL JAPANESE NAVY 1887-1941.

Peattie, Sunburst: The Rise of Japanese Naval Air Power, 1909-1941.

Finished Kaigun. A very nice read. Recommended if you're interested in the IJN. I'm not an expert though so if there were any major errors I didn't spot them. Proofreading wasn't bad, but could be better.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on May 10, 2014, 07:22:44 AM
I'm reading a book*!!  :gasp: :faint: 




*don't worry it's only a small one. :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on May 17, 2014, 01:41:38 PM
Anyone else read 2666?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 17, 2014, 05:57:54 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 10, 2014, 07:03:56 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 02, 2014, 04:48:04 PM
I recently got a new delivery, including the following.

Evans and Peattie, Kaigun: Strategy, Tactics and Technology in the IMPERIAL JAPANESE NAVY 1887-1941.

Peattie, Sunburst: The Rise of Japanese Naval Air Power, 1909-1941.

Finished Kaigun. A very nice read. Recommended if you're interested in the IJN. I'm not an expert though so if there were any major errors I didn't spot them. Proofreading wasn't bad, but could be better.

Finished Sunburst. It's essentially the longer version of what they put in Kaigun, so it's nice, but not essential if you read Kaigun and don't have a special interest in the naval air arm.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on May 23, 2014, 03:53:02 PM
Nice coffee-table book of WW2 maps, mainly operational and with British bias since it's from the public records office. Good detail in some of the maps, won't teach you much, but can be picked up on amazon for pennies:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Historical-Maps-Europe-Michael-Swift/dp/1856485730/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0F6ZQWAFM117VBT0PH5E (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Historical-Maps-Europe-Michael-Swift/dp/1856485730/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0F6ZQWAFM117VBT0PH5E)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2014, 04:47:49 PM
I've never read any Nabokov.  So I got a single-book trilogy of Nabokov out from the library: Lolita, Pnin, and Pale Fire.

Pale Fire is the one I'm most interested in, but I felt I should start with something more straightforward, so Lolita it is. 

I obviously knew what it was about, and had even seen the movie some years back, but I'm finding it more disturbing than I would've thought.  I can deal with very explicit details in child sex cases and not really be very affected by it, but getting inside the head of the guy is just another trip entirely, especially with the wonderful language drawing you further and further in.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 23, 2014, 11:02:56 PM
I didn't find Lolita as difficult to stomach as Josephine Mutzenbacher, a book long banned in Germany, and then put onto the "It's art!" pedestal. It's a book from ca. 1900 with an unrepentant Viennese prostitute recounting her sexual adventures between the ages 6 and 14 and includes lots of explicit child sex and incest. (Friends bought me the book when I went to Vienna as a joke gift, knowing that it was a book about sex, but not what kind of sex.)

Lolita is much better written and psychologically interesting. H.H. is a good example of the smart, educated beast who can't control his instincts.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2014, 09:24:59 PM
Just read a review (the second) about Timothy Geitner's book.

How much would youse guys figure the Wall Street bailout cost the US?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 25, 2014, 09:25:31 PM
At the time or since?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2014, 09:35:01 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 28, 2014, 04:19:27 PM
Next on the list;


Ghost Soldiers (The Cabanatuan Raid)

Shadows in the Jungle (Alamo Scouts)

No Holding Back: Operation Totalize
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 28, 2014, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 28, 2014, 04:19:27 PM
Ghost Soldiers (The Cabanatuan Raid)

I really enjoyed that book.  Very well written.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on May 28, 2014, 08:15:49 PM
Binging on Walker Percy in preparation for the inaugural Walker Percy Weekend in St. Francisville, LA.

http://www.countryroadsmagazine.com/miscellaneous/walker-percy-festival

Currently reading The Last Gentleman, with The Thanatos Syndrome and Lancelot ahead of me. The Moviegoer was a slong, for the first time in the dozen or so reads I've had.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 28, 2014, 11:41:38 PM
Quote from: Scipio on May 28, 2014, 08:15:49 PM
Binging on Walker Percy in preparation for the inaugural Walker Percy Weekend in St. Francisville, LA.

Now that sounds fun as balls. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 29, 2014, 05:18:29 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 28, 2014, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 28, 2014, 04:19:27 PM
Ghost Soldiers (The Cabanatuan Raid)

I really enjoyed that book.  Very well written.

Good to hear. I was kind of skeptical on it.

No Holding Back is very good so far. The author gives a good background on the state of the Canuck army from 1920-1939. A good run down on the officer corps too, that led to serious mistakes being made in Verrières Ridge, Operations Atlantic and Totalize.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on May 29, 2014, 06:24:53 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 28, 2014, 11:41:38 PM
Quote from: Scipio on May 28, 2014, 08:15:49 PM
Binging on Walker Percy in preparation for the inaugural Walker Percy Weekend in St. Francisville, LA.

Now that sounds fun as balls.
Yeah. All of the Percy scholars are coming in on their own dime, since this is the first one. All the tickets are sold with a week to go. The coolest part: tour either the nuclear power plant or Angola prison, both of which figure into Percy's work prominently. Unfortunately, both of those trips are in conflict with another lecture I want to attend.

Gonna be a fun weekend.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 29, 2014, 07:38:50 PM
Appears some good articles for those who have not seen them.

http://legionmagazine.com/en/category/canadian-military-history-in-perspective/army/page/3/
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 01, 2014, 07:37:30 PM
Words of Radiance, the sequel to Way of Kings.

Holy crap this was great! Sanderson's best yet. He even made big progress on his two flaws, pacing and humor. Plot, world building, characters, and themes were as good as ever.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 02, 2014, 11:19:24 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 01, 2014, 07:37:30 PM
Words of Radiance, the sequel to Way of Kings.

Holy crap this was great! Sanderson's best yet. He even made big progress on his two flaws, pacing and humor. Plot, world building, characters, and themes were as good as ever.

I liked Way of Kings a lot.  When I was in the book store last week they didnt have the Radiance so it will have to wait for me to get through the stack I did get.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on June 02, 2014, 12:16:39 PM
Words is better than WoK.

Is Interlude are less boring and less about random characters. The Oververse of the Cosmere is also more apparent, which is good.

One thing I do not like about Brandon is how young he makes his characters. You are not GRR Martin, ffs.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maximus on June 02, 2014, 12:20:49 PM
Yep, it was a masterwork. Probably his best-written book yet, which is something given its size. The Emperor's Soul may be a contender but it's a novella.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pedrito on June 02, 2014, 12:32:26 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on May 17, 2014, 01:41:38 PM
Anyone else read 2666?
I slugged up to two thirds but never managed to finish it, although it seemed to be a good book. The killings part becomes almost unbearable. I'll try again in the future, but right now I need something lighter.

L.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on June 02, 2014, 12:43:55 PM
In Spanish?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on June 03, 2014, 06:01:54 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 05, 2014, 08:27:36 PM
QuoteThe Safeguard of the Sea: A Naval History of Britain 660-1649
The Command of the Ocean: A Naval History of Britain, 1649-1815
I was amazed how quickly I read the first one. I've got the second one on my shelf, though I've not read it yet.

You're right, especially the second half was a very quick read. Excellent book, looking forward to the second part.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 03, 2014, 06:16:15 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 02, 2014, 12:16:39 PM
Words is better than WoK.

Is Interlude are less boring and less about random characters. The Oververse of the Cosmere is also more apparent, which is good.

One thing I do not like about Brandon is how young he makes his characters. You are not GRR Martin, ffs.
Most are late teens or early twenties. There are others in their 30s or 50s. Only a couple of interlude characters are in their early teens. That's a bit older than GRRM's characters, he has tons of major characters under 15.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on June 03, 2014, 07:10:44 AM
Exactly.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 03, 2014, 07:20:11 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on June 02, 2014, 12:32:26 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on May 17, 2014, 01:41:38 PM
Anyone else read 2666?
I slugged up to two thirds but never managed to finish it, although it seemed to be a good book. The killings part becomes almost unbearable. I'll try again in the future, but right now I need something lighter.

L.

I got about half way through. I liked the part with the professors of German literature, but afterwards it lost me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pedrito on June 03, 2014, 07:57:10 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 02, 2014, 12:43:55 PM
In Spanish?
:huh: no. Translated in italian.

L.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 03, 2014, 10:40:06 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2014, 09:24:59 PM
Just read a review (the second) about Timothy Geitner's book.

How much would youse guys figure the Wall Street bailout cost the US?

I think it is running negative (Feds got back more than they put in) if you don't adjust for risk or opportunity cost.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on June 03, 2014, 10:43:18 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on June 03, 2014, 07:57:10 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 02, 2014, 12:43:55 PM
In Spanish?
:huh: no. Translated in italian.

L.
I forgot your national background.   :Embarrass:  Pedrito sounded Spanish-y to me. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pedrito on June 03, 2014, 11:07:04 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 03, 2014, 10:43:18 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on June 03, 2014, 07:57:10 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 02, 2014, 12:43:55 PM
In Spanish?
:huh: no. Translated in italian.

L.
I forgot your national background.   :Embarrass:  Pedrito sounded Spanish-y to me.
Pedrito IS spanish, but it's simply the name of my first Diablo character  ;)

L.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2014, 12:43:19 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 03, 2014, 10:40:06 AM
I think it is running negative (Feds got back more than they put in) if you don't adjust for risk or opportunity cost.

Unca Sam made 166 billion on the deal.

How would your risk and opportunity cost adjustments affect that number?  You seem to be suggesting it would be negative after doing so.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 03, 2014, 12:55:40 PM
Risk - It's not easily measurable but clearly the Feds took a good deal of risk buying AIG without really knowing exactly what positions it held.  Similar for Fannie and Freddie.  The credit extended to tottering banks was a little less risky but still far from rock solid.

If we assume gross bailout funds committed of somewhere around $3 trillion (I've seen numbers claimed over 10), then the net return is about 5 percent over 4 years.  That is a very poor return given the risk taken.

Of course, this is kind of irrelevant because the commitments of funds weren't done for investment purposes but to forestall catastrophe.  The wisdom of the bailouts IMO rises or falls based on their strength as a policy response to a financial crisis, not a whether the final tally was in the red or the black.  By comparison I think the old S&L resolution ended up with a small net loss (tens of billions) but still was good policy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2014, 01:29:54 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 03, 2014, 12:55:40 PM
Risk - It's not easily measurable but clearly the Feds took a good deal of risk buying AIG without really knowing exactly what positions it held.  Similar for Fannie and Freddie.  The credit extended to tottering banks was a little less risky but still far from rock solid.

Which doesn't really address my question of how risk (and opportunity cost) should be factored in.

QuoteIf we assume gross bailout funds committed of somewhere around $3 trillion (I've seen numbers claimed over 10), then the net return is about 5 percent over 4 years.  That is a very poor return given the risk taken.

Eh?  TARP funding was on the order of $600 billion.  Are you including Fed lending?

QuoteOf course, this is kind of irrelevant because the commitments of funds weren't done for investment purposes but to forestall catastrophe.  The wisdom of the bailouts IMO rises or falls based on their strength as a policy response to a financial crisis, not a whether the final tally was in the red or the black.  By comparison I think the old S&L resolution ended up with a small net loss (tens of billions) but still was good policy.

Agreed, but Geitner's purpose in raising the point is to disabuse the public of the common misconception that the US bailed out the banks by handing over a big wad of money.

What percentage of the American public do you figure knows that money got paid back, with interest?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 04, 2014, 03:03:38 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2014, 01:29:54 PM
What percentage of the American public do you figure knows that money got paid back, with interest?

If you want to stress the "with interest" part then you should agree with the rest of Joan's analysis  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2014, 03:20:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 04, 2014, 03:03:38 PM
If you want to stress the "with interest" part then you should agree with the rest of Joan's analysis  ;)

Why is that?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 04, 2014, 06:09:37 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2014, 03:20:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 04, 2014, 03:03:38 PM
If you want to stress the "with interest" part then you should agree with the rest of Joan's analysis  ;)

Why is that?

because, as Joan pointed out, it wasnt a particularly good ROI when considering the risk.  So best not to try to make it sound like it was. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 04, 2014, 08:35:52 PM
Medieval style Lord of the Rings art! :w00t:

http://io9.com/these-medieval-style-tolkien-illustrations-are-like-not-1585380478
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2014, 08:37:17 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 04, 2014, 06:09:37 PM
because, as Joan pointed out, it wasnt a particularly good ROI when considering the risk.  So best not to try to make it sound like it was.

You use the word "analysis" differently than I do, but that's not a big deal.

I haven't tried to make it sound like a great ROI, and AFAIK neither did Geitner.  I don't know what purpose would be served by doing so.  Lending $600 billion to banks during a financial crisis is not a typical opportunity for private investors, and I certainly don't think Geitner is advocating engineering another meltdown so the US Treasury can profit handsomely from the bailout.

The point of mentioning the $166 billion is to correct the thinking of people who still believe the bailout consisted of handing over--gifting--US taxpayer funds to financial institutions.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 05, 2014, 11:45:46 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2014, 08:37:17 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 04, 2014, 06:09:37 PM
because, as Joan pointed out, it wasnt a particularly good ROI when considering the risk.  So best not to try to make it sound like it was.

You use the word "analysis" differently than I do, but that's not a big deal.

I haven't tried to make it sound like a great ROI, and AFAIK neither did Geitner.  I don't know what purpose would be served by doing so.  Lending $600 billion to banks during a financial crisis is not a typical opportunity for private investors, and I certainly don't think Geitner is advocating engineering another meltdown so the US Treasury can profit handsomely from the bailout.

The point of mentioning the $166 billion is to correct the thinking of people who still believe the bailout consisted of handing over--gifting--US taxpayer funds to financial institutions.

Meh, you use words differently much of the time.  I agree.  Not a big deal.

I agree there is not need to dwell on whether the "with interest" part is meaningful because in the context of the risk it wasnt.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 05, 2014, 11:55:08 AM
Then you're not agreeing with me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on June 05, 2014, 12:31:49 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 03, 2014, 07:20:11 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on June 02, 2014, 12:32:26 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on May 17, 2014, 01:41:38 PM
Anyone else read 2666?
I slugged up to two thirds but never managed to finish it, although it seemed to be a good book. The killings part becomes almost unbearable. I'll try again in the future, but right now I need something lighter.

L.


I got about half way through. I liked the part with the professors of German literature, but afterwards it lost me.

Honestly, I think you could skip that.  The part about Archimboldi is fascinating, and I think you get the point about the murders about halfway through the section. 

Finished 2666.  Starting A Place of Greater Safety. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2014, 02:24:45 PM
I'm reading a biography of Henry VII and turned to look at the author bio on the jacket cover. Apparently this first-time author has a PhD in Early Tudor History. I never knew that was possible.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 09, 2014, 02:28:39 PM
Which bit?

Also is that the Winter King? If so, let me know what you think. I've been thinking of getting it for a while.

Also does anyone know what George MacDonald Fraser's non-Flashman novels are like?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 09, 2014, 02:29:40 PM
You are reading a book about the Winter King?  Nice.  I was annoyed when 'The Tudors' didn't start with Bosworth Field but with some random day in Henry VIII's life.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2014, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 09, 2014, 02:28:39 PM
Which bit?

Also is that the Winter King? If so, let me know what you think. I've been thinking of getting it for a while.

Also does anyone know what George MacDonald Fraser's non-Flashman novels are like?

That one could have a degree in that. I felt odd enough when I did a tutorial on Late Tudor History (aka mostly just Elizabeth).

Yes, that's the one. Picked the hardcover up at a used bookstore when I was in SF. Only read + first chapter, so I'll let you know once I've read a bit more. :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 09, 2014, 02:31:35 PM
His thesis was probably hushed up for national security reasons.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 09, 2014, 02:34:45 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 09, 2014, 02:28:39 PM
Also does anyone know what George MacDonald Fraser's non-Flashman novels are like?

Yup.

The "McAuslin" series really very funny. Well worth reading. Read together with his autobiography of his war years in Burma, Quartered Safe Out Here, which is also well worth reading.

The "McAuslin" series is a set of short stories, only lightly fictionalized, about his experiences in the army after WW2.

Two I liked that are tangentally tied in with the "Flashman" setting are Black Ajax and Mr. American. Both are very good, though not as compulsively readable as Flashman.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 09, 2014, 03:23:46 PM
Such a good series in fact that one is compelled to repeat its name twice.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 09, 2014, 03:30:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 09, 2014, 03:23:46 PM
Such a good series in fact that one is compelled to repeat its name twice.

Slow news day?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 09, 2014, 03:33:45 PM
Finished Pacific Crucible: War at Sea in the Pacific, 1941-1942 , by Ian W. Toll.

Decent intro to the subject for the general reader with little previous knowledge. Strong focus on the "human interest" side of things: lots of space devoted to Yamamoto's geisha adventures, King's feelings about his hairline, and apparently if you're in a 1940s warship in the tropics it gets really hot and sweaty. Not so much space devoted to harder history.

If you're a more serious hobby student of the Pacific War the book can safely be ignored.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 11, 2014, 07:19:44 AM
If you email Brandon Sanderson and ask nicely he will send you a copy of an unpublished Cosmere novel titled White Sand. :w00t:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on June 11, 2014, 07:30:00 AM
That's his portfolio work tho.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 11, 2014, 07:39:02 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 11, 2014, 07:30:00 AM
That's his portfolio work tho.
Not sure what you mean?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 11, 2014, 08:03:17 PM
Waiting on: The Crossing of the Suez by Saad El Shazly to get here.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on June 11, 2014, 08:50:27 PM
I'm reading Lockstep by Karl Schroeder. It's about a galatic empire where there is no faster than light travel.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 12, 2014, 05:33:02 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2014, 08:37:17 PM
The point of mentioning the $166 billion is to correct the thinking of people who still believe the bailout consisted of handing over--gifting--US taxpayer funds to financial institutions.

It's a useful point but the people most committed to the worldview of the bailouts having had a huge net cost are also probably a demographic not likely to buy and read Geithner's book.

No amount of facts is going to sway the Rand Pauline from the world.  If the Fed lost the nation's money, they are evil.  If they made money, they are lying.  And even more evil.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 12, 2014, 06:02:23 PM
I was thinking of a slightly different demographic Joan.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 13, 2014, 09:48:28 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 12, 2014, 06:02:23 PM
I was thinking of a slightly different demographic Joan.

They are pretty much agreed on this point so what difference does it make?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 13, 2014, 04:40:38 PM
The difference is that Tea Partiers are generally derided as uninformed boobs while the other type are lauded as revolutionary heroes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 13, 2014, 04:51:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 13, 2014, 04:40:38 PM
The difference is that Tea Partiers are generally derided as uninformed boobs while the other type are lauded as revolutionary heroes.

Or godless pinko destroyers of America.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 15, 2014, 01:35:46 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 11, 2014, 08:03:17 PM
Waiting on: The Crossing of the Suez by Saad El Shazly to get here.

It be here
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on June 15, 2014, 02:29:19 PM
Anyone read Concretopia?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 15, 2014, 06:14:33 PM
It's a solid book. It sets fast, but takes days to cure.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 15, 2014, 07:08:22 PM
I found it a little too dense.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 15, 2014, 08:20:06 PM
So you just couldn't sink into it, Ed?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 15, 2014, 08:38:22 PM
It was a hard book to understand.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Norgy on June 16, 2014, 06:47:16 AM
Just finished Martin Cruz Smith's latest Renko novel. A huge shrug.
Also finished George H. Stein's Waffen-SS book. Less meh. Quite good, really.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on June 16, 2014, 07:36:41 AM
I'm looking for a good general history of the British Isles in the 17th century. I say British Isles as I don't just want English history and would like details of goings on in Ireland and Scotland too.
Not too bothered about the first couple of decades, but would like it to stretch to the start of George I's reign.

Any recommendations appreciated, but do remember I'm not planning on writing an MA or doing anything academic, just general interest reading.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 16, 2014, 12:56:42 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 12, 2014, 06:02:23 PM
I was thinking of a slightly different demographic Joan.

Occupy 99% blah blah blah?
Their response is that the "insiders" always make off good - if the Treasury made money back it's only because the .1 percenters stood to gain from it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on June 16, 2014, 10:03:10 PM
Quote from: Norgy on June 16, 2014, 06:47:16 AM
Just finished Martin Cruz Smith's latest Renko novel. A huge shrug.
Also finished George H. Stein's Waffen-SS book. Less meh. Quite good, really.
Martin Cruz-Smith is a poor man's Michael Dibdin.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 16, 2014, 11:37:28 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 16, 2014, 12:56:42 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 12, 2014, 06:02:23 PM
I was thinking of a slightly different demographic Joan.

Occupy 99% blah blah blah?
Their response is that the "insiders" always make off good - if the Treasury made money back it's only because the .1 percenters stood to gain from it.

And that's off the mark how, exactly?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on June 17, 2014, 02:38:49 AM
I thought we all stood to gain from the bailout.  By not ending up like Europe.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 20, 2014, 11:52:28 AM
Anyone read "Flash Boys,"  by Michael Lewis?  Currently alternating that with A Muddle of Plotlines.

It's about high-speed trading.  I've never read "Liar's Poker," but I thought based on that Lewis would be an informed writer  about Wall Street.  So far I'm disappointed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 21, 2014, 09:30:00 PM
I've grabbed the Monster Hunter books for mah trip. supposedly good readin'.

I know they aren't by some old dead fart that was jammed down my throat in 10th grade, Seedy. You can keep your Steinbeck.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 21, 2014, 11:30:44 PM
We read Of Mice and Men in English class. Heartbreaking.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 22, 2014, 06:17:05 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 21, 2014, 09:30:00 PM
I know they aren't by some old dead fart that was jammed down my throat in 10th grade, Seedy. You can keep your Steinbeck.

You're obviously still there.  You plan on rereading the Dragonlance series after this?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 22, 2014, 06:31:12 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 22, 2014, 06:17:05 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 21, 2014, 09:30:00 PM
I know they aren't by some old dead fart that was jammed down my throat in 10th grade, Seedy. You can keep your Steinbeck.

You're obviously still there.  You plan on rereading the Dragonlance series after this?

I just might. Raistlin is so edgy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 22, 2014, 06:31:47 PM
or Elric.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 22, 2014, 07:37:27 PM
I can't bitch too much, every now and then I flush my brain out with a Warhammer 40K novel.  :lol: :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on June 23, 2014, 12:26:04 AM
I've been doing that with those Turtledove novels.  They seemed better when I was in high school. :(  I never did finish the series, but giving it the old college try now.   There are admittedly some clever little jokes like the British having a base on the Hawaiian islands called "Fort William Rufus".  There's an Army base there called Fort Shafter named for William Rufus Shafter.

Stupid autocorrect.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 25, 2014, 09:17:34 AM
I have started the Picketty book.  It is very well written and surprisingly, for a book on economics, a real page turner.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 25, 2014, 09:22:33 AM
Reading The Tale of the Dueling Neurosurgeons. Very amusing, popular science account of the history of brain research.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 05, 2014, 08:51:29 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 21, 2014, 09:30:00 PM
I've grabbed the Monster Hunter books for mah trip. supposedly good readin'.

I know they aren't by some old dead fart that was jammed down my throat in 10th grade, Seedy. You can keep your Steinbeck.

Monster Hunter International review:

Gun worship+ dead werewolves + dead vampires+ stupid Cthulhu gods= an okay book
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 06, 2014, 10:48:40 AM
Dead werewolves?  That sucks.  You should always root for werewolves, especially since stupid ass Hollywood threw their lot in with vampires for the homo and tweeter market share. :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 06, 2014, 01:43:48 PM
Finished No Surrender: My Thirty-Year War by Onoda Hiroo. While I obviously knew of him I hardly knew anything about him before. A fascinating book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 06, 2014, 02:06:46 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 06, 2014, 10:48:40 AM
Dead werewolves?  That sucks.  You should always root for werewolves, especially since stupid ass Hollywood threw their lot in with vampires for the homo and tweeter market share. :mad:

They're ruining werewolves and vampires alike.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 06, 2014, 06:26:26 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 06, 2014, 10:48:40 AM
Dead werewolves?  That sucks.  You should always root for werewolves, especially since stupid ass Hollywood threw their lot in with vampires for the homo and tweeter market share. :mad:

[spoiler]the guy that runs Monster Hunter international is a werewolf with a government exemption. And the 4th (or 3rd) book is basically werewolves tearing the living shit out of a town in the UP.

But they end up dead too.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2014, 07:35:39 PM
Mama Rice has been writing about werewolves lately.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on July 06, 2014, 10:20:36 PM
I'm reading The Summoner by Gail Z Martin.


It's a fun RPG story, all the traditional classes our covered too.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 23, 2014, 08:25:37 AM
I've been reading the Ralph Griffith translation of the Atharvaveda.  Some of his translations are odd; my favorite is a hymn entitled:

The hyperbolical glorification of the Vrātya or Aryan Non-conformist

I think I'll start calling myself "The Aryan Non-conformist."   :cool:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on July 23, 2014, 10:42:04 AM
Read a Stephen King for the first time in more than 20 years. About some bloke that goes back in time to stop the Kennedy murder. It was absolutely shite.

Currently Teddy Roosevelt biog, early days but really enjoying it so far. Middlesex by Euginedes- ditto.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on July 23, 2014, 10:44:37 AM
Quote from: Gups on July 23, 2014, 10:42:04 AM
Read a Stephen King for the first time in more than 20 years. About some bloke that goes back in time to stop the Kennedy murder. It was absolutely shite.


Does he become an Ayatollah or something?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 23, 2014, 10:47:01 AM
Reading Heart of a Dog by Bulgakov. Entertaining, but nowhere near as good as Master and Margarita.

Read Notebook of a Country Doctor after seeing the TV series. Very, very good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on July 23, 2014, 11:03:34 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 23, 2014, 10:44:37 AM
Quote from: Gups on July 23, 2014, 10:42:04 AM
Read a Stephen King for the first time in more than 20 years. About some bloke that goes back in time to stop the Kennedy murder. It was absolutely shite.


Does he become an Ayatollah or something?

[spoiler]No. But for some unfathomable reason, saving Kennedy's life leads to major earthquakes everywhere in the world, the election of George Wallace and a nuclear war. But that's teh least of the books problems. It's a badly-written, turgid, over-long mess[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on July 23, 2014, 11:05:21 AM
I can understand earth quakes, but George Wallace?  That's just absurd.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on July 23, 2014, 11:10:18 AM
I probably should have used that spoiler thing before I talked about Kennedy Ennosigaeus.  Now that's a word you don't get to drop into conversation everyday!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on July 23, 2014, 11:25:00 AM
Quote from: Gups on July 23, 2014, 10:42:04 AM
Read a Stephen King for the first time in more than 20 years. About some bloke that goes back in time to stop the Kennedy murder. It was absolutely shite.

Currently Teddy Roosevelt biog, early days but really enjoying it so far. Middlesex by Euginedes- ditto.

The Stephen King Kennedy book was a pretty obnoxious read, yeah.  I could not stand the nostalgia for the '60s that he brought up at each opportunity.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 23, 2014, 06:39:27 PM
Attracted by the catchy blurb "What Really Happened: Iran 1953, Congo 1961, Pakistan 1971, Chile 1973," I picked up a copy of Foreign Affairs.

It confirmed what I already thought about Iran--the conventional wisdom is completely overcooked.  The article on Chile went even further in limiting US involvement than I had previously thought.  On the other hand, US involvement in the Congo (specifically the ouster of Lumumba and the installation of Mobutu--at the time the *29* year old commander of the Congolese army) was much more extensive than I had thought.  I don't know why they included the Pakistan article; it doesn't fit with the others.

Also picked up Enders Game in paperback.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on July 23, 2014, 09:46:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 23, 2014, 06:39:27 PM
It confirmed what I already thought about Iran--the conventional wisdom is completely overcooked.  The article on Chile went even further in limiting US involvement than I had previously thought. 

Also picked up Enders Game in paperback.

So you went with works of pure fiction for your summer reading.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 23, 2014, 09:55:19 PM
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 23, 2014, 10:32:20 PM
The CV on Iran is based on the fact that Kermit Roosevelt boasted about how effective the CIA was, I presume he could not published without vetting it first which would suggest some jackass at CIA thought it was good PR to overplay the US role

Anyway takeyh is pretty sharp so I certainly wouldn't say its "fiction"

The chile piece was a good read but the author conceded interest up front

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 27, 2014, 05:50:52 AM
http://www.historytoday.com/blog/2014/06/personal-history-habsburg-europe

QuoteDuring the 19th century nationalist academics argued that their peoples had historic rights to various territories (usually including vast areas claimed by other peoples), but Winder shows that such claims were ludicrous: after chaotic centuries of internecine warfare, resulting in the frequent devastation of districts and endless shifting around of populations, all Balkan 'nations' were effectively mongrels and no one could really claim a historic right to anything.
:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 03, 2014, 07:55:04 AM
Empire of Secrets.

Very interesting history on the role played by the intelligence services (especially MI5) during decolonisation, largely based on relatively recently declassified material.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on August 03, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Reading the Bombing War by Richard Overy. Interesting stuff, and well written.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 03, 2014, 02:31:15 PM
Finished Superfortress: The Boeing B-29 and American Airpower in World War II, by Bombs Away LeMay. America, fuck yeah!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 03, 2014, 10:29:53 PM
Quote from: Maladict on August 03, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Reading the Bombing War by Richard Overy. Interesting stuff, and well written.

Yep. Ignore Ide.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 04, 2014, 12:14:27 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 23, 2014, 08:25:37 AM
I've been reading the Ralph Griffith translation of the Atharvaveda.  Some of his translations are odd; my favorite is a hymn entitled:

The hyperbolical glorification of the Vrātya or Aryan Non-conformist

I think I'll start calling myself "The Aryan Non-conformist."   :cool:

I finished the (why it gotta be) black Yajur-Veda and the Atharvaveda.  The black Yajur-Veda has liturgies for the various sacrifices, simlar to the white Yajur-Veda; but there's a number of prose parts which explains the meaning of the individual sacrifices.  These are always presented as a formulaic question and answer of Rishis.

The Atharvaveda is the last of the Vedas and covers a lot of different topics.  The first several books are the most curious, as they're filled with spells and charms, magic (in this sense) is not found anywhere else in the Vedas.  Later books have hymns, prayers and the occasional hyperbolical glorifications.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on August 04, 2014, 02:15:11 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 23, 2014, 10:32:20 PM
Anyway takeyh is pretty sharp so I certainly wouldn't say its "fiction"

CC was just trolling Yi.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 04, 2014, 06:27:48 PM
Right.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 04, 2014, 06:31:44 PM
I picked up Annie Proulx's "Accordian Crimes" at a friends moving sale because I had read and enjoyed her book about the dude that kills a chick while fucking her and turns into a vagrant out of grief.  It appears to be telling stories the of various immigrants to the US through the device of an accordian that gets passed around.

One downside is Annie's picture on the back cover.  I had pictured her as this willowy hippy chick and she's a battleaxe.  Much nicer to read books by hott chick authors.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 04, 2014, 06:56:44 PM
Authors are not known for their attractiveness.  They are sort of like Radio personalities.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 04, 2014, 07:34:20 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 04, 2014, 06:31:44 PM
I picked up Annie Proulx's "Accordian Crimes" at a friends moving sale because I had read and enjoyed her book about the dude that kills a chick while fucking her and turns into a vagrant out of grief.  It appears to be telling stories the of various immigrants to the US through the device of an accordian that gets passed around.

One downside is Annie's picture on the back cover.  I had pictured her as this willowy hippy chick and she's a battleaxe.  Much nicer to read books by hott chick authors.

At least the battleaxe could have the decency to put a blurb or reviews on the back cover and her picture on the overleaf.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 04, 2014, 09:03:14 PM
If I ever write a book I'm going to put that picture of Conrad Veidt on the dust jacket.  I reckon these days more people identify me with that then my own face.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 04, 2014, 09:35:18 PM
You should use the photo that comes with the frame, Raz.  That'll throw them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 05, 2014, 12:02:02 PM
Read the Cave and the Light while on holiday.  The author gives his take on how Western thought, science and culture has been influenced by Plato and Aristotle.  It is an enjoyable read right up to the point where he struggles to describe modern economics.  But in the areas that are is strengths (particularly the impact on the development Christianity) he does well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2014, 01:05:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 04, 2014, 09:03:14 PM
If I ever write a book

'Best Basements in Missouri'

It would be one of those big Coffee Table books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 05, 2014, 01:55:51 PM
A basement tape about basements?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 05, 2014, 05:08:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2014, 01:05:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 04, 2014, 09:03:14 PM
If I ever write a book

'Best Basements in Missouri'

It would be one of those big Coffee Table books.

Pshaw, he's going to write an alt history book like his idol Newt.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 06, 2014, 01:07:51 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 05, 2014, 05:08:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2014, 01:05:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 04, 2014, 09:03:14 PM
If I ever write a book

'Best Basements in Missouri'

It would be one of those big Coffee Table books.

Pshaw, he's going to write an alt history book like his idol Newt.

They mostly come in the daytime. Mostly.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 06, 2014, 01:11:05 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2014, 01:05:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 04, 2014, 09:03:14 PM
If I ever write a book

'Best Basements in Missouri'

It would be one of those big Coffee Table books.

Hey, lots of good authors were recluses.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 06, 2014, 01:13:04 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 04, 2014, 09:35:18 PM
You should use the photo that comes with the frame, Raz.  That'll throw them.

I already do that.

"Aww is that your son?"

"No, he came with the wallet.  Still I'm proud of the little tyke".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 06, 2014, 01:42:57 PM
The Erra Epic

Erra, the Babylonian god of mayhem, war and pestilence is feeling lazy, but his weapons tell him to go kill people, and so he does in this wonderfully psychopathic epic. Erra tricks Marduk into leaving Babylon and then starts killing people.  Barbarians invade, and he kills them too.  He makes plans to kill everybody god and man, but when his compatriot, Ishum (god of fire) defeats Babylons enemies Erra seems to give up on this goal; (or maybe not, I'm led to believe there are still some conflicts today in Babylon...)  The poem ends with Erra explaining its in his nature to kill and he is all powerful.

The Sumerian epic Gilgamesh obsesses on death being the fate of man; and ultimately only civilization (as the city) lasts.  Gilgamesh was a Babylonian favorite as well, but they seem to have accepted that not even their empire was permanent and that too would be destroyed. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 07, 2014, 02:12:47 PM
The Song of Songs

What struck me on this reading is how the poems are set up as a performance; similar to Greek theater with two speakers and a chorus.  The poems don't seem related to one another (other than their common theme of erotic love); but they all have the same sort of set-up.  If it was intended as a single work perhaps the individual parts were intended as vignettes; or maybe it's more akin to a concert with a series of individual pieces.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 08, 2014, 08:43:43 AM
The Penguin Modern Classics Library has released a new edition of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory":

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.creativereview.co.uk%2Fimages%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2Fcharlie_cover_0.jpg&hash=bb7390c359e723d5b21737e5299596f2eac5dc57)

More disturbingly they've changed the opening lines to:

Veruca Salt, light of my life, fire of my loins. My sin, my soul. Ve-ru-ca: the shape of the lips ever growing until the tongue taps at three, on the throat. Ve. Ru. Ca
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 08, 2014, 08:48:27 AM
Still not as creepy as Lewis Carroll.  Close, but not quite.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 08, 2014, 08:49:33 AM
 :lol:


That reminds me of this song I heard recently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET1MhXiUDVg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET1MhXiUDVg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 08, 2014, 09:35:44 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 06, 2014, 01:42:57 PM
Gilgamesh was a Babylonian favorite as well, but they seem to have accepted that not even their empire was permanent and that too would be destroyed.

There were multiple Babylonian dynasties, power often shifted from city to city, and there were long interregnums of foreign rule, so Babylonians would have been very conscious of the impermanence of political rule.  The Babylonians were also very historically conscious - they preserved Sumerian as a literary prestige language for centuries (even though it is from an alien language family) and used ancient Akkadian for their own literary tradition into the Hellenistic period.  Nabonidus - the last of the neo-Babylonian rulers - was a dedicated antiquarian who restored temple complexes that dated back to the Old Babylonian era (more than 1000 years earlier).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 08, 2014, 09:41:39 AM
I'm reading Crowley's City of Fortune (http://www.amazon.com/City-Fortune-Venice-Ruled-Seas/dp/0812980220). He's the same dude who wrote the excellent Empires of the Sea: The Siege of Malta, the Battle of Lepanto, and the Contest for the Center of the World (http://www.amazon.com/Empires-Sea-Battle-Lepanto-Contest/dp/0812977645/ref=la_B001JS8UEK_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1407508522&sr=1-1).

Enjoying it quite a bit. The first part is about the clusterfuck known as "Fourth Crusade."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on August 08, 2014, 10:15:03 AM
Reading Augusts by John Williams. A couple of years ago Williams was completely unknown this side of teh pond. "Stoner" was republished and became a massive hit - I thought it was excellent. Judging by the first third, Augustus is even better althought entirely different.

Augustus's life is told through letters, proclamations etc of various protagnists (Agrippa, Cicero, etc). It's really wonderfully written.

That cover for Charlie and teh Choc Factory is exceptionally weird. I don't get how it is meant to represent the book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 08, 2014, 10:16:32 AM
[Tim]Guns of Augustus? :w00t:[/Tim]
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 08, 2014, 10:57:18 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 08, 2014, 09:41:39 AM
I'm reading Crowley's City of Fortune (http://www.amazon.com/City-Fortune-Venice-Ruled-Seas/dp/0812980220). He's the same dude who wrote the excellent Empires of the Sea: The Siege of Malta, the Battle of Lepanto, and the Contest for the Center of the World (http://www.amazon.com/Empires-Sea-Battle-Lepanto-Contest/dp/0812977645/ref=la_B001JS8UEK_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1407508522&sr=1-1).

Enjoying it quite a bit. The first part is about the clusterfuck known as "Fourth Crusade."

Yep, a very enjoyable read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 08, 2014, 11:22:14 AM
After a breack I have now finished book 6 and I have launched into book 7 of the Master and Commander series. 

I am impressed with the consistently good writing.   
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 08, 2014, 12:08:34 PM
I had no idea E.L. Doctorow wrote a novel about Sherman's campaign.

But it just moved to the top of the To Read stack.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 08, 2014, 01:35:48 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 08, 2014, 09:35:44 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 06, 2014, 01:42:57 PM
Gilgamesh was a Babylonian favorite as well, but they seem to have accepted that not even their empire was permanent and that too would be destroyed.

There were multiple Babylonian dynasties, power often shifted from city to city, and there were long interregnums of foreign rule, so Babylonians would have been very conscious of the impermanence of political rule.  The Babylonians were also very historically conscious - they preserved Sumerian as a literary prestige language for centuries (even though it is from an alien language family) and used ancient Akkadian for their own literary tradition into the Hellenistic period.  Nabonidus - the last of the neo-Babylonian rulers - was a dedicated antiquarian who restored temple complexes that dated back to the Old Babylonian era (more than 1000 years earlier).

They were sort of a mopey people.  Lot of a lamentations and the like.  You do see where the Israelites get their outlook on life from though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 08, 2014, 01:45:23 PM
To keep on topic Gwendolyn Lieck's Mesopotamia: The Invention of the City is an interesting read on all (urban) things Sumerian and Babylonian.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 13, 2014, 04:24:24 PM
I just finished The War That Ended Peace: The Road To 1914 by Margert MacMillan. While certainly an enjoyable/in-depth read, if one had to just get one book on the lead-up to WW1, I'd recommend The Sleepwalkers: How Europe Went To War in 1914 by Christopher Clark instead.

Mainly for two "defects" with MacMillan book. Firstly, I couldn't shake feeling that it had been written as a set of individual essays that had then been re-worked and put in one book. Structure of chapters seemed odd (neither really thematic nor chronologic) and so many things were repeated over and over. And they weren't really mentioned as callbacks to what you had already read but almost if it was posted as a novel note for the first time in the book. One example is the passage "As so often in international relations, though, what is defensive from one perspective may appear a threat form another". That passage or some variation was repeated at least 5 times across the work.

Secondly, she kept drawing parallels to the modern era but there didn't seem much of a purpose for the comparisons. She never really unpacked any of them nor did they really help to better explain the WW1 events she was describing. They kind of just sat there as random bits of the author adding in her judgments on current events - which just sort of kicked me out of the narrative.  Some examples:

That said, I think her book was a little less dry that Sleepwalkers, and for what it is worth I am considering getting her book on the Treaty of Versailles.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 13, 2014, 04:35:00 PM
I enjoyed her book on Versailles a lot, but I did find it a little disjointed.

Currently reading A History of the World in 10 1/2 Chapters. I like it a lot.

Also Shadow of the Great Game. A revisionist history of partition by Mountbatten's old ADC. I believe lots of his points were dismissed when the book first came out. Having read a couple of books which touch on MI5 policy in India leading up to and after independence (largely based on files declassified after this book came out), I suspect he's a little more right than was initially suspected.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
The Shijing (Classics of Poetry)

This is a collection of odes and hymns from the various states of China from between the 11th and 7th century BC.  The poems cover many different forms but, to me, it was surprising how many tied into the political situation of the time; either criticism or praise of the ruler or commentary on the prosperity or the chaos of the age.

The Western Zhou dynasty collapsed after King You replaced his queen with a concubine named Baosi.  The queen's father rebelled and the nobles whom King You had mistreated rebelled.  Naturally the people blamed Baosi for this; and a number of poems reflect this and give a very frank assessment of her character.  Some are so blatantly misogynistic that I thought Languish would appreciate them.  My favorite:

Clever men build up a city,

Clever women cause its fall.
Clever women may have charms, yet

Owls and vampires are they all

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 13, 2014, 04:44:13 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 13, 2014, 04:35:00 PM
I enjoyed her book on Versailles a lot, but I did find it a little disjointed.

Currently reading A History of the World in 10 1/2 Chapters. I like it a lot.

Also Shadow of the Great Game. A revisionist history of partition by Mountbatten's old ADC. I believe lots of his points were dismissed when the book first came out. Having read a couple of books which touch on MI5 policy in India leading up to and after independence (largely based on files declassified after this book came out), I suspect he's a little more right than was initially suspected.

What were his controversial positions?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 13, 2014, 04:46:18 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 13, 2014, 04:44:13 PM
What were his controversial positions?
Basically that the British were pushing partition for a long time to preserve a military base for the UK (and later the US/West/SEATO) to protect their interests in the Middle East. It was initially just an idea but it grew rather urgent as the Cold War started.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 13, 2014, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
The Shijing (Classics of Poetry)

This is a collection of odes and hymns from the various states of China from between the 11th and 7th century BC.  The poems cover many different forms but, to me, it was surprising how many tied into the political situation of the time; either criticism or praise of the ruler or commentary on the prosperity or the chaos of the age.

The Western Zhou dynasty collapsed after King You replaced his queen with a concubine named Baosi.  The queen's father rebelled and the nobles whom King You had mistreated rebelled.  Naturally the people blamed Baosi for this; and a number of poems reflect this and give a very frank assessment of her character.  Some are so blatantly misogynistic that I thought Languish would appreciate them.  My favorite:

Clever men build up a city,

Clever women cause its fall.
Clever women may have charms, yet

Owls and vampires are they all


It is a major and recurring theme in Chinese history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 14, 2014, 12:58:55 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 13, 2014, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
The Shijing (Classics of Poetry)

This is a collection of odes and hymns from the various states of China from between the 11th and 7th century BC.  The poems cover many different forms but, to me, it was surprising how many tied into the political situation of the time; either criticism or praise of the ruler or commentary on the prosperity or the chaos of the age.

The Western Zhou dynasty collapsed after King You replaced his queen with a concubine named Baosi.  The queen's father rebelled and the nobles whom King You had mistreated rebelled.  Naturally the people blamed Baosi for this; and a number of poems reflect this and give a very frank assessment of her character.  Some are so blatantly misogynistic that I thought Languish would appreciate them.  My favorite:

Clever men build up a city,

Clever women cause its fall.
Clever women may have charms, yet

Owls and vampires are they all


It is a major and recurring theme in Chinese history.

Yellow Fever:  Not Just for Caucasians. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 14, 2014, 01:00:39 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 14, 2014, 12:58:55 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 13, 2014, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
The Shijing (Classics of Poetry)

This is a collection of odes and hymns from the various states of China from between the 11th and 7th century BC.  The poems cover many different forms but, to me, it was surprising how many tied into the political situation of the time; either criticism or praise of the ruler or commentary on the prosperity or the chaos of the age.

The Western Zhou dynasty collapsed after King You replaced his queen with a concubine named Baosi.  The queen's father rebelled and the nobles whom King You had mistreated rebelled.  Naturally the people blamed Baosi for this; and a number of poems reflect this and give a very frank assessment of her character.  Some are so blatantly misogynistic that I thought Languish would appreciate them.  My favorite:

Clever men build up a city,

Clever women cause its fall.
Clever women may have charms, yet

Owls and vampires are they all


It is a major and recurring theme in Chinese history.

Yellow Fever:  Not Just for Caucasians.

Man-destroying Dragon Ladies: not just for CdM.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on August 14, 2014, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 13, 2014, 04:35:00 PM
I enjoyed her book on Versailles a lot, but I did find it a little disjointed.

It has been awhile but it had spectacular sections but never really seemed coherent.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 14, 2014, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 14, 2014, 01:00:39 PM
Man-destroying Dragon Ladies: not just for CdM.  ;)

:lol:

King You only lost his life, his dynasty and his kingdom.  He got off easy as compared to CdM.   ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 14, 2014, 01:22:33 PM
 :lol: and how
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 15, 2014, 12:51:18 PM
The Torah :Joos:

On this reading it's easy to see parallels between the Torah and other Ancient Near Eastern texts; especially between the Law and the various codes of laws or wisdom literature. (Also the antediluvian Kings lived incredibly long lives; even longer than the antediluvian Biblical patriarchs.)  A couple things which makes the Law unusual is it's presented as a covenant, rather than the dictate of a king or good advice; and it's concern for social justice.  (What remains of the law code of Ur-Nammu seems to indicate that was a concern for him; but, to my limited knowledge, other law codes are not concerned with that at all.)

Some of the King James Version translations are amusingly awkward.  I liked how Moses called the Israelites "A peculiar people unto the Lord."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 18, 2014, 04:01:50 PM
The Most Powerful Idea in the World Story of Steam, Industry, and Invention by William Rosen

This is a history of engineering from antiquity until the creation of the engine Rocket in 1820.  The book is akin to the James Burke series "Connections;" where the development of various inventions are focused on.  The underlying thesis is that patents, as they were awarded in England, led to industrialization; which is why the Industrial Revolution happened in the United Kingdom rather than elsewhere.   :bowler:

The reading is a little light, and skims over some ideas; but it's an enjoyable book. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 18, 2014, 04:07:35 PM
Is it correct?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 18, 2014, 04:18:04 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 18, 2014, 04:01:50 PM
The Most Powerful Idea in the World Story of Steam, Industry, and Invention by William Rosen

This is a history of engineering from antiquity until the creation of the engine Rocket in 1820.  The book is akin to the James Burke series "Connections;" where the development of various inventions are focused on.  The underlying thesis is that patents, as they were awarded in England, led to industrialization; which is why the Industrial Revolution happened in the United Kingdom rather than elsewhere.   :bowler:

The reading is a little light, and skims over some ideas; but it's an enjoyable book.

You might enjoy this one:

http://www.amazon.ca/Ancient-Inventions-Peter-James/dp/0345401026/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-1&keywords=ancient+inventions

A really light read, but fun as hell.

The first coin-operated vending machine - was in Hellenistic Alexandria? Dispensing holy water?!  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 19, 2014, 02:01:58 PM
I'm currently re-reading Van Gulik's Judge Dee mysteries, starting with the Chinese Gold Murders.

They are awesome - how could one not love a Confucian magestrate who solves crimes, and hardly ever just tortures a confession out of someone?  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 19, 2014, 02:04:19 PM
Hardly ever?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 19, 2014, 02:36:38 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 19, 2014, 02:04:19 PM
Hardly ever?

Hey, it's fiction.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 20, 2014, 02:15:04 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on April 28, 2014, 06:58:35 PM
I've been reading The Epic of Latin America by John Crow.  The author goes into details about the universities in the colonial period.  At the end of studies the successful candidate for a degree was expected to throw a lavish party.  In Lima, at the University of San Marco, the graduate was expected to host a bullfight (¡Olé!).  Say what you like about the out of control costs of American universities, at least we haven't reached that level.

I finally finished this.  The author's central idea is that the individual Latin American nations all have a unique history and culture; but they all share a common "Catholic" origin.  For this reason they're antagonistic towards one another and incomprehensible to the "Protestant" United States (who in turn is incomprehensible to the Latin American republics.)

It struck me that his thesis explains English Canada and Quebec as well. :Canuck:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 27, 2014, 01:03:12 PM
I don't know if worth it or not, but Prit Buttar's recent WW1 book (Collisions of Empires: The War on the Eastern Front in 1914) is on sale on amazon for 1.99 for kindle edition.

No, I don't know who Prit Butler is. -_-
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 03, 2014, 02:53:40 PM
[Dreadnought]

What book(s) should I be reading if I want to learn about the Great War in the naval sphere of things?  I don't want something that only talks about Jutland.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on September 03, 2014, 02:56:20 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 19, 2014, 02:01:58 PM
I'm currently re-reading Van Gulik's Judge Dee mysteries, starting with the Chinese Gold Murders.

They are awesome - how could one not love a Confucian magestrate who solves crimes, and hardly ever just tortures a confession out of someone?  :D

I've greatly enjoyed those books too. I like how he throws in a bit titillating naked dancing girls or concubines every so often. Curiously, they're often the focus of the few illustrations.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 03, 2014, 03:04:16 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 03, 2014, 02:56:20 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 19, 2014, 02:01:58 PM
I'm currently re-reading Van Gulik's Judge Dee mysteries, starting with the Chinese Gold Murders.

They are awesome - how could one not love a Confucian magestrate who solves crimes, and hardly ever just tortures a confession out of someone?  :D

I've greatly enjoyed those books too. I like how he throws in a bit titillating naked dancing girls or concubines every so often. Curiously, they're often the focus of the few illustrations.

Heh, I was just remarking to my wife as I went through his series - "I wonder if there is any of his books that do not feature one of his illustrations of a bare-boobed woman in a fetishistic pose"

And sure enough ... not a single book lacked one! I checked.  :lol:

It was no surprise at all to learn that, among other things, the author was an expert on ancient Chinese porn.

Sadly, aside from one 70s era made-for-TV movie, his stuff has never been filmed (though there are plenty of Chinese movies based on "Judge Dee", they are not based on these stories).

Edit: how the author managed to get away with his illustrations in the 1950s when these books were first published, I have no idea.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on September 03, 2014, 03:25:11 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 03, 2014, 03:04:16 PM
Heh, I was just remarking to my wife as I went through his series - "I wonder if there is any of his books that do not feature one of his illustrations of a bare-boobed woman in a fetishistic pose"

And sure enough ... not a single book lacked one! I checked.  :lol:

It was no surprise at all to learn that, among other things, the author was an expert on ancient Chinese porn.

Yeah :)

If you have a formula that works, and one that you enjoy yourself as well, why change it :)

QuoteSadly, aside from one 70s era made-for-TV movie, his stuff has never been filmed (though there are plenty of Chinese movies based on "Judge Dee", they are not based on these stories).

I think I saw the 70s TV movie back in the day. As I understand it, the Chinese movies draw from the same source material as van Gulik does, rather than on his stories, which makes sense.

QuoteEdit: how the author managed to get away with his illustrations in the 1950s when these books were first published, I have no idea.

I think a fair bit of erotic stuff got hidden under the "history" and "classical studies" kind of thing. I'm pretty sure that one of the reasons antiquity kept being so interesting to so many people throughout the years is that you could look at images of attractive naked people and discuss erotic things in the name of "a good education" without being labelled a perv or deviant.

Also, I recently heard the argument that the smut publishing industry used to make much more money than "good fiction" (similar to how California porn apparently used to make more money than Hollywood). It's not surprising that pulpy stuff - and that's where I'd put van Gulik - put in some prurient elements.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on September 03, 2014, 03:28:24 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 18, 2014, 04:18:04 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 18, 2014, 04:01:50 PM
The Most Powerful Idea in the World Story of Steam, Industry, and Invention by William Rosen

This is a history of engineering from antiquity until the creation of the engine Rocket in 1820.  The book is akin to the James Burke series "Connections;" where the development of various inventions are focused on.  The underlying thesis is that patents, as they were awarded in England, led to industrialization; which is why the Industrial Revolution happened in the United Kingdom rather than elsewhere.   :bowler:

The reading is a little light, and skims over some ideas; but it's an enjoyable book.

You might enjoy this one:

http://www.amazon.ca/Ancient-Inventions-Peter-James/dp/0345401026/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-1&keywords=ancient+inventions

A really light read, but fun as hell.

The first coin-operated vending machine - was in Hellenistic Alexandria? Dispensing holy water?!  :lol:

L. Sprague de Camp wrote a similar book, which I had as a child.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 03, 2014, 03:41:50 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 03, 2014, 03:25:11 PM

I think I saw the 70s TV movie back in the day. As I understand it, the Chinese movies draw from the same source material as van Gulik does, rather than on his stories, which makes sense.


Yup - Van Gulik never made any secret of the fact he was drawing on an existing stream of Chinese popular fiction - in fact, he made a virtue out of it.

Here's a modern Chinese "Judge Dee" movie made last year - big budget, really a fantasy and martial-arts extravaganza rather than a mystery.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2992146/?ref_=tt

I would love to see a modern take on the mystery type plots from Van Gulik's stories. The occasional naked courtesan would be okay.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on September 03, 2014, 04:23:17 PM
I've found the Ava Lee series by Ian Hamilton to scratch a bit of the same itch - mysteries, somewhat orientalist, somewhat voyeuristic subtext (or text), but pretty damn entertaining. They're modern day stories, but still. The fifth one in the series was a bit of a let down, but I'm still checking out number six if/when it comes out.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on September 03, 2014, 04:26:39 PM
As for my recent reading - Njall's Saga and a couple of other shorter stories including the one about the fellow taking a polar bear to the King of Denmark; I picked up a complete (I believe) collection of Icelandic sagas.

I've also been reading Adam of Bremen's Chronicle of the Church of Hamburg (in translation, to Danish), one of the earliest written sources of Danish history. Fascinating stuff, and much more readable than I'd have thought.

That, and I finished a book on Margrethe I of Denmark. She was a pretty strong character who ruled Denmark, Norway and Sweden pretty much in her own right (the book also, perhaps of interest to CKII fans, the original Victual Brothers in several spots).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 04, 2014, 01:24:53 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 03, 2014, 02:53:40 PM
[Dreadnought]

What book(s) should I be reading if I want to learn about the Great War in the naval sphere of things?  I don't want something that only talks about Jutland.

Would Massie's Dreadnought sequel be sufficient, Castles of Steel?  Or are you looking for more crunchy, operational stuff, and less sweeping narrative with a cast of thousands?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 04, 2014, 01:28:43 AM
Quote from: Jacob on September 03, 2014, 03:25:11 PM
I think a fair bit of erotic stuff got hidden under the "history" and "classical studies" kind of thing. I'm pretty sure that one of the reasons antiquity kept being so interesting to so many people throughout the years is that you could look at images of attractive naked people and discuss erotic things in the name of "a good education" without being labelled a perv or deviant.

There's more than one reason Jesuit universities have all of de Sade's works in the stacks.   :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on September 04, 2014, 05:19:09 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 04, 2014, 01:24:53 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 03, 2014, 02:53:40 PM
[Dreadnought]

What book(s) should I be reading if I want to learn about the Great War in the naval sphere of things?  I don't want something that only talks about Jutland.

Would Massie's Dreadnought sequel be sufficient, Castles of Steel?  Or are you looking for more crunchy, operational stuff, and less sweeping narrative with a cast of thousands?

I thought the first one was pretty meh. Is Castles of Steel better.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on September 04, 2014, 05:39:59 AM
Quote from: Gups on September 04, 2014, 05:19:09 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 04, 2014, 01:24:53 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 03, 2014, 02:53:40 PM
[Dreadnought]

What book(s) should I be reading if I want to learn about the Great War in the naval sphere of things?  I don't want something that only talks about Jutland.

Would Massie's Dreadnought sequel be sufficient, Castles of Steel?  Or are you looking for more crunchy, operational stuff, and less sweeping narrative with a cast of thousands?

I thought the first one was pretty meh. Is Castles of Steel better.

I thought so. Certainly less of a slog.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 04, 2014, 02:01:17 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 04, 2014, 01:24:53 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 03, 2014, 02:53:40 PM
[Dreadnought]

What book(s) should I be reading if I want to learn about the Great War in the naval sphere of things?  I don't want something that only talks about Jutland.

Would Massie's Dreadnought sequel be sufficient, Castles of Steel?  Or are you looking for more crunchy, operational stuff, and less sweeping narrative with a cast of thousands?

Massie's book and another recommendation off CSW seem to be what I'm after.  Thanks, Seeds.   :)

It helps that I've read and enjoyed two of Massie's previous works (Peter the Great and the one about Tsar Nicholas and his wife).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 05, 2014, 03:11:41 PM
I reread Bret Easton Ellis's "Less than Zero."  It struck me that this was the YA version of "American Psycho."  Even though there are progressively more disturbing scenes (as is the case in "American Psycho") the book is about a young man who is having difficulties with the change in relationship with his girlfriend and best friend after returning from college for Christmas break.

I must be getting old as Clay seemed a much less likable character than Patrick Bateman.  Clay is filled with the worst vices of adolescence: passivity, indifference and alienation.  Patrick Bateman enthusiastically embraces the zeitgeist and (at least in his narration) is anything but a passive character.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2014, 07:08:15 PM
BEE didn't become the banner boy for the archetypal '80s young white male for nothing, Sav.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 06, 2014, 05:25:34 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2014, 07:08:15 PM
BEE didn't become the banner boy for the archetypal '80s young white male for nothing, Sav.

He wrote what he knew.

Has anyone read "Imperial Bedrooms" (the sequel to "Less than Zero'")?  They have a copy of it at my local library and I was wondering if it's worth the effort.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 08, 2014, 12:36:34 AM
I can't wait 100 years, dammit.

QuoteMargaret Atwood's new work will remain unseen for a century
Novelist says it is 'delicious' to be first contributor to the Future Library, which will compile 100 texts for publication in 2114


Depending on perspective, it is an author's dream – or nightmare: Margaret Atwood will never know what readers think of the piece of fiction she is currently working on, because the unpublished, unread manuscript from the Man Booker prize-winning novelist will be locked away for the next 100 years.

Atwood has just been named as the first contributor to an astonishing new public artwork. The Future Library project, conceived by the award-winning young Scottish artist Katie Paterson, began, quietly, this summer, with the planting of a forest of 1,000 trees in Nordmarka, just outside Oslo. It will slowly unfold over the next century. Every year until 2114, one writer will be invited to contribute a new text to the collection, and in 2114, the trees will be cut down to provide the paper for the texts to be printed – and, finally, read.

"It is the kind of thing you either immediately say yes or no to. You don't think about it for very long," said Atwood, speaking from Copenhagen. "I think it goes right back to that phase of our childhood when we used to bury little things in the backyard, hoping that someone would dig them up, long in the future, and say, 'How interesting, this rusty old piece of tin, this little sack of marbles is. I wonder who put it there?'"

The award-winning author said she was unbothered by the fact that, during her lifetime at least, no one but her will ever read the story she has already started writing. "What a pleasure," she said. "You don't have to be around for the part when if it's a good review the publisher takes credit for it and if it's a bad review it's all your fault. And why would I believe them anyway?"

Author of novels including The Handmaid's Tale and The Blind Assassin, Atwood said "when you write any book you do not know who's going to read it, and you do not know when they're going to read it. You don't know who they will be, you don't know their age, or gender, or nationality, or anything else about them. So books, anyway, really are like the message in the bottle."

She predicted that the readers of 2114 might need "a paleo-anthropologist to translate some of it for them", because "language of course will have changed over those 100 years. Maybe not so much as it changed between say 1400 and now, but it will have changed somewhat".

Paterson said Atwood was her "dream" author with whom to kick off the project. "I imagine her words growing through the trees, an unseen energy, activated and materialised, the tree rings becoming chapters in a book," said the artist, who won the visual arts category of the 2014 South Bank Sky Arts awards.

Atwood's work will be stored in a specially designed room in the Deichmanske public library, opening in 2018 in Bjørvika, Oslo. The room will be lined with wood from the forest, with the names of the authors and the titles of their work on display – but none of the manuscripts available to read.

Each year, the Future Library trust, made up of literary experts – and Paterson, while she's alive – will name another "outstanding" writer who will be contributing to the artwork. The trust is also responsible for the maintenance of the forest, and for ensuring the books are printed in a century's time. A printing press will be placed in the library to make sure those in charge in 2114 have the capability of printing books on paper.

"For some writers I think it could be an incredible freedom – they can write whatever they like," said Paterson, "from a short story to a novel, in any language and any context ... We're just asking that it be on the theme of imagination and time, which they can take in so many directions. I think it's important that the writing reflects maybe something of this moment in time, so when future readers open the book, they will have some kind of reflection of how we were living in this moment."

Paterson said that Future Library "has nature, the environment at its core – and involves ecology, the interconnectedness of things, those living now and still to come. It questions the present tendency to think in short bursts of time, making decisions only for us living now."

The 100-year timescale is "not vast in cosmic terms", said the artist. "However, in many ways, the human timescale of 100 years is more confronting. It is beyond many of our current lifespans, but close enough to come face to face with it, to comprehend and relativise."

"It freaks me out a bit when I think that many of these writers aren't born yet," she said. "Sometimes it does hit me – oh my God, if I live to 90, what will it be like then? It's very exciting as an artist."

Atwood refused to reveal anything about what she's writing. "Wild horses would not drag it out of me. It's part of the contract you can't tell anybody what you're writing. I'm finding it very delicious, because I get to say to people like you [the Guardian], I'm not telling," said the Canadian writer. "But I will say that I've bought some special archival paper, which will not decay in its sealed box over 100 years."

"I'm going to tell you an interesting story, maybe. About a language called Haida. It belongs to a language group of one, off the west coast of Canada. Haida was a flourishing language and culture until it encountered European diseases, when it went from quite a large population down to a population of fewer than 100 people. That was in 1900. But among these survivors of small pox, tuberculosis and all other things that killed them, among these 100 people, there were two bardic poets.

"Haida didn't have a written language, it was an oral culture, but they had, like a lot of oral cultures, including the one that produced The Iliad and The Odyssey, they had a tradition of long, memorised, recited and performed oral poems that were epic in nature. These two poets probably thought, 'Our culture's going to die out and we have no way of transmitting our poems.' But along came an American anthropologist, who didn't speak any Haida, and he worked with a translator who spoke both Haida and English, and the poets recited their poems line by line, word by word. He wrote them down in phonics in Haida, and then he wrote a rough translation of what they meant.

"All of that sat in a library for 100 years, nobody reading it. And then along came a polylingual polymath named Robert Bringhurst, who discovered this archival material in the library, taught himself Haida, transcribed the phonics back into Haida and did a new translation. They were then regarded as folk tales because the person recording them had written them out in prose, but it was his theory that they were poetry, although the poetic form was different than one we'd recognise, it was more like Japanese poetic forms. And he wrote the whole thing out, he did his own translations and you can read them to this very day in a collection called A Story as Sharp as a Knife.

"So that is an example of something lying dormant for 100 years, whereupon it comes to new life."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 08, 2014, 01:46:03 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 08, 2014, 12:36:34 AM
I can't wait 100 years, dammit.

Maybe you can convince Malthus to purloin a copy for you. :shifty:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 08, 2014, 08:27:41 AM
I read The History of Renaissance Florence by Gene Brucker.  Then I burned it for being a secular vanity.  :mad: :pope:

;)

The book provides a portrait of the city of Florence focusing on the years 1380-1450 (roughly a generation after the black death to the consolidation of power of Cosimo the Elder.)  It has separate chapters for different aspects of the city (economics, religion, culture, politics and so on.)  Brucker is a good writer and he creates an evocative work out of what should be dry subject matter.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 08, 2014, 09:54:57 AM
He stopped before encountering the glory of Machiavelli.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 08, 2014, 10:15:27 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 08, 2014, 09:54:57 AM
He stopped before encountering the glory of Machiavelli.

He gives an epilogue in which he outlines the events between 1450 and the papacy of Leo X (after the restoration of the Medici, but before the formal ending of the Republic.)  In there he dwells a little on Machiavelli; and compares and contrasts his life to that of Guicciardini. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on September 08, 2014, 03:42:21 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 08, 2014, 01:46:03 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 08, 2014, 12:36:34 AM
I can't wait 100 years, dammit.

Maybe you can convince Malthus to purloin a copy for you. :shifty:

I was about to post the same thing. At the rate I'm reading the Handmaid's Tale, I will probably finish with the other books by the time this is out.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 08, 2014, 03:47:25 PM
Finished Naval Firepower: Battleship Guns and Gunnery in the Dreadnought Era, by Norman Friedman. I am no expert on naval gunnery so it was fairly interesting. Not the widest approach to the subject though: "btw there's also guns, shells and armor to consider, they get their own short chapter at the back of the book".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: MadImmortalMan on September 08, 2014, 05:29:25 PM
Quote
"It is the kind of thing you either immediately say yes or no to. You don't think about it for very long," said Atwood

Correct. You immediately say no.

What's the point of denying everyone the ability to read it for a hundred years? It's not like it won't exist by then or anything. You just make it so people who might want to read it will die without the opportunity.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: MadImmortalMan on September 08, 2014, 05:58:26 PM
Cleaning out pop's books from my mother's house. I've salvaged so far:



The Long Goodbye by Raymond Chandler 1953

The Prince and the Pauper by Mark Twain 1921  Edit: Also Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn, all 1921

We by Charles Lindbergh 1927

North to the Orient
by Anne Lindbergh 1935

A History of England and the Empire-Commonwealth, Hall-Albion-Pope Fourth Edition 1965


A History of Modern Germany 1648-1840, A History of Modern Germany 1840-1945 and A History of Modern Germany The Reformation by Hajo Holborn 1967

The Arms of Krupp 1587-1968
by William Manchester 1968

Disraeli, A Picture of the Victorian Age by Andre Maurois 1928

The Deerslayer by JF Cooper 1938

Complete Poems of Keats and Shelley 1940

Salome by Oscar Wilde 1930----Together with a clipping from a NYC newspaper that my grandmother apparently saved and put in the book. It's a play review that starts off "Salome's first performance is still the most notorious cause celebre in the musical annals of New York. It was an occasion comparable only to the riot which Stravinsky's Sacre du Princeps created in Paris." On the back is an ad for Schenley Reserve whiskey.

Bismarck and the Development of Germany
by Pflanze 1963



Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 08, 2014, 07:05:07 PM
/envy
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 08, 2014, 07:14:30 PM
Sounds like Pops had some real taste in books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 08, 2014, 10:24:31 PM
Sounds like pops might have been a fan of Herr Schickelgruber.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on September 09, 2014, 04:50:59 AM
Caved in and read one of Crowley's books, Empires of the Sea. Sadly, it's as overdramatized as I'd feared.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 09, 2014, 02:16:46 PM
I read Joan Abelove's "Saying it out Loud" about a young Jewish girl whose high strung mother is dying of brain cancer while her aloof father is unable to relate to her.  It's not much of a story; just a quick sketch (probably autobiographical.) 

I'm glad I don't have Jewish parents; it sounds like that would be a terrible experience.   :(

;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 10, 2014, 08:57:53 AM
Can anyone recommend good books on the history of Japan and/or Korea?

Anything from around 500B.C. to the early 20th century.

I'm particularly interested in the Yayoi migration from Korea to Japan, the three kingdom era of Korea, the Kamakura shogunate, the Goreyo Kingdom, the warring state era of Japan, the Imjin War and the Meiji restoration.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 11, 2014, 07:24:43 PM
Any suggestions? There are plenty of well reviewed books for the 1600-2000 period that I've seen but I want to start with earlier periods.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 11, 2014, 07:29:05 PM
Won't you get lynched if they see you reading a Japanese history book?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 11, 2014, 08:19:08 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 11, 2014, 07:29:05 PM
Won't you get lynched if they see you reading a Japanese history book?  :hmm:
Kindle.

Plus, I did request Korean suggestions.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on September 23, 2014, 04:44:48 PM
Anyone know any books on super early Roman/Classical Italian history?  Pre-Punic wars.  Etruscans and Tarquins and whatnot. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 23, 2014, 07:44:05 PM
Isn't that all mythology?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on September 23, 2014, 08:38:15 PM
That's what I mean.  I want anthropology as much as anything. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 23, 2014, 08:40:51 PM
The Aeneid.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 24, 2014, 10:18:45 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on September 23, 2014, 04:44:48 PM
Anyone know any books on super early Roman/Classical Italian history?  Pre-Punic wars.  Etruscans and Tarquins and whatnot.

I read for instance The Beginnings of Rome: Italy and Rome from the Bronze Age to the Punic Wars (c.1000-264 BC) and found it interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 24, 2014, 10:31:41 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 10, 2014, 08:57:53 AM
Can anyone recommend good books on the history of Japan and/or Korea?

Anything from around 500B.C. to the early 20th century.

I'm particularly interested in the Yayoi migration from Korea to Japan, the three kingdom era of Korea, the Kamakura shogunate, the Goreyo Kingdom, the warring state era of Japan, the Imjin War and the Meiji restoration.

Good English language histories of Japan don't grow on trees. Some books I've read and found interesting:

A History of Japan to 1334 by George Sansom. Old but the competition isn't overwhelming.
A History of Japan, 1334-1615 by George Sansom. Same.
The Making of Modern Japan by Marius B. Jansen. Covers the last 400 years in 900+ pages.

One annoying thing with looking for books on Japan is wading through hundreds of Stephen Turnbull books with 90% recycled content. I respect him as a businessman but Jesus Christ. Awful.

Haven't read dick about Korea.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on September 24, 2014, 09:56:26 PM
Alison Weir's War of the Roses.

Good stuff. Englishmen bashing in each other's brains.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 24, 2014, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 24, 2014, 10:31:41 AM
One annoying thing with looking for books on Japan is wading through hundreds of Stephen Turnbull books with 90% recycled content.

Is original research important for a non-historian to be reading?  :huh:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 25, 2014, 01:20:53 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 24, 2014, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 24, 2014, 10:31:41 AM
One annoying thing with looking for books on Japan is wading through hundreds of Stephen Turnbull books with 90% recycled content.

Is original research important for a non-historian to be reading?  :huh:

I don't follow.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 29, 2014, 07:34:19 AM
I'm reading Gabriel Garcia Marquez' 100 Years of Solitude. I'm enjoying it quite a bit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 29, 2014, 12:12:06 PM
I read the first volume of Will Durant's story of Civilization "Our Oriental Heritage."  It covers Egypt and the Middle East until Alexander and India, China and Japan to then then present day (1934.)

He takes a romantic view of the cultures of China and India; going so far as to praise Indian men for their sexual restraint.   :huh:

At the end of the volume he writes of the inevitability of a US war with Japan.  I've read some Monday morning quarterbacking of FDR's foreign policy in the Pacific in the 40s and 50s; so it was surprising to see Durant viewing it as inevitable.  Especially since it was written before even the Second Sino-Japanese war.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on September 29, 2014, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on September 29, 2014, 12:12:06 PM
I read the first volume of Will Durant's story of Civilization "Our Oriental Heritage."  It covers Egypt and the Middle East until Alexander and India, China and Japan to then then present day (1934.)

He takes a romantic view of the cultures of China and India; going so far as to praise Indian men for their sexual restraint.   :huh:

At the end of the volume he writes of the inevitability of a US war with Japan.  I've read some Monday morning quarterbacking of FDR's foreign policy in the Pacific in the 40s and 50s; so it was surprising to see Durant viewing it as inevitable.  Especially since it was written before even the Second Sino-Japanese war.

It's the weakest of the series by far. The romanticized writing is present in all volumes, but he does it very well.
I enjoyed reading them a lot, especially from vol.4 onwards.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 30, 2014, 02:06:59 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on September 29, 2014, 12:12:06 PM
He takes a romantic view of the cultures of China and India; going so far as to praise Indian men for their sexual restraint.   :huh:

Well, when he published his book in 1935, India only had 350 million people(including Pakistan and Bangladesh). Clearly they've been pretty busy since then.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 30, 2014, 02:49:16 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on September 29, 2014, 12:12:06 PM


At the end of the volume he writes of the inevitability of a US war with Japan.  I've read some Monday morning quarterbacking of FDR's foreign policy in the Pacific in the 40s and 50s; so it was surprising to see Durant viewing it as inevitable.  Especially since it was written before even the Second Sino-Japanese war.
What was his reasoning?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 30, 2014, 07:32:02 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 30, 2014, 02:49:16 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on September 29, 2014, 12:12:06 PM


At the end of the volume he writes of the inevitability of a US war with Japan.  I've read some Monday morning quarterbacking of FDR's foreign policy in the Pacific in the 40s and 50s; so it was surprising to see Durant viewing it as inevitable.  Especially since it was written before even the Second Sino-Japanese war.
What was his reasoning?

He sees Japan's expansion in historic terms and reasons that their aggression must eventually put them in conflict with the dominant power. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 02, 2014, 06:59:20 PM
I read "Understanding Poetry" by Cleanth Brooks and Robert Penn Warren.  Mostly it's an anthology with some discussion and some discussion questions.  As usual what's left out is as interesting as what's in.  The Augustan Age is almost entirely overlooked; but Byron is heavily represented.  I thought that was strange given that Byron's satires seem to progress from Pope and Dryden rather than come from the milieu of Shelly and Keats.  The cavaliers are missing.   :mad:  The metaphysical poets are well represented, and they even have all of Milton's Lycidas.

The twentieth century is well represented (except William Carlos Williams, who, inexplicably, only shows up in the appendices.)  Warren didn't include any of his own poems; he did put Marvell's "To His Coy Mistress" in there.  It would have been amusing if he had left it out.  There are also folk ballads, like "Frankie and Johnny" and "Jessie James," as well as a conscious effort to put in (what Brooks regarded as) bad poems.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 04, 2014, 01:10:48 PM
derspiess is free to add his "lol, black people can't handle money" comments

QuoteAuthor Zane filed for bankruptcy as her new movie, "Addicted," was in production
washingtonpost.com

Zane, the best-selling author who has sold millions of steamy novels and is listed as executive producer of a new movie, "Addicted," based on one of her books, filed for bankruptcy in June, months after being dubbed Maryland's top individual tax cheat.

The Prince George's County-based erotica author, who is sometimes compared to "Fifty Shades of Grey" writer E.L. James, filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Maryland on June 11.

Zane, whose real name is Kristina Laferne Roberts, listed her total assets at more than $1.4 million, including her $950,000 "primary residence" in Upper Marlboro and a $530,000 "investment property" in Bowie, according to court records. She claimed total liabilities of more than $3.4 million, including $337,151.85 in back Maryland taxes and more than $1.4 million to creditors. She listed the amount that she owes the IRS as "unknown."

According to court records filed by the federal government, Roberts owes the IRS more than $540,000. In 2010, the Treasury Department placed a tax lien on her Upper Marlboro home, which Roberts bought for more than $1 million in 2004.

An IRS spokesman said he could not comment on individual tax cases. According to general information released by the IRS, "Whether a federal tax debt may be discharged" by Chapter 7 bankruptcy filing, "depends on the unique facts and circumstances of each case."

Roberts's bankruptcy attorney, Terry Morris, said he could not comment on the case. Roberts, 48, who has written more than 30 books, did not respond to several requests for comment. She received a certificate for completing an online credit counseling course in May — a requirement before filing for bankruptcy.

In January, Maryland Comptroller Peter Franchot dubbed Roberts Maryland's top individual "tax cheat." The state has been trying to collect back taxes from Roberts since 2003.

In her bankruptcy filing, Roberts, founder of Strebor Books, an imprint of Atria Books/Simon & Schuster, and creator and producer of two Cinemax television series, "Zane's Sex Chronicles" and "Zane's The Jump Off," estimated her monthly income at $4,700. She reported her checking account balance at $400, her savings at $51 and a money market account balance of $8.

Roberts listed her employer as Simon & Schuster and reported that her income from the publishing house was $91,000 in 2013, according to the bankruptcy filing. In 2012, she reported an income of $362,000 from the publishing company. She said she has made $28,374 so far in 2014 from Simon & Schuster.

On the same day she filed for bankruptcy, Zane responded on her Facebook page to a fan who wanted to know how to handle a sudden visitation request from the father of her two daughters. There was no mention of Zane's financial difficulties.

On June 24, she posted a trailer for "Addicted," which is being released next week. "Thank you very much for making my Addicted trailer a huge success! You are amazing and a testament to the fact that there's an audience that will support films with and by people of color that represents the diversity of our society. I am excited to share this journey with you!"

Zane's Facebook page has more than one million fans. "Addicted," a thriller based on her best-selling 2001 novel, tells the story of an affluent African American business woman whose addiction to sex ruins her life with a "dream husband...two wonderful children and a flourishing career." The movie, distributed by Lionsgate/Codeblack Films, stars Sharon Leal and Boris Kodjoe.

Roberts was born in D.C. and is the daughter of a retired teacher and a well-known theologian. She attended Howard University, where she majored in chemical engineering.

She began writing her steamy novels at night while working as a researcher by day. She has sold millions of copies of her books, hitting the New York Times bestsellers list more than 25 times.

In 1999, Zane founded her own publishing house and called it Strebor Books. Strebor, which was headquartered in Upper Marlboro, is Roberts spelled backwards. In the spring of 1999, Zane self-published "Zane's: The Sex Chronicles," a collection of 40 stories, which was a publishing hit. In 2000, Zane published "Addicted" and the next year, "Shame on It All."

According to Roberts's bankruptcy filing, Strebor Books International closed in June 2013. However, in June 2014, Strebor books released the memoir, "Mayor for Life: The Incredible Story of Marion Barry, Jr.," which was written by Barry, who represents Ward 8 on the D.C. Council, and author Omar Tyree.

In his acknowledgments, Barry thanked Zane. "Because of you," Barry wrote, "generations will learn the real story of Marion Barry Jr." In June, Roberts appeared on stage with Barry at his book signing in Southeast Washington, where readers stood in line to purchase copies and have them signed by the former mayor.

On Thursday, Christine Feldmann, a spokeswoman for the state comptroller's office, said that the state's case against Roberts is still active. "Mrs. Roberts has still not satisfied all of her outstanding liens," Feldmann said.

Maryland's "Caught in the Web" site listed 25 individuals and 25 businesses who owed the state more than $6.1 million in taxes. State officials said publishing Robert's name at the top of that list was one of the last steps they took in a long process to collect back taxes.

A spokesman for the Maryland Attorney General's Office said he could not comment on whether the office is investigating the case. A state official said criminal charges against individuals who owe the state back taxes are rare, adding that the state is more successful collecting back taxes by garnishing wages or placing liens against property.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Liep on October 12, 2014, 09:21:15 AM
Cormac McCarthy - The Road. Well that was bleak.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 20, 2014, 08:21:30 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on September 06, 2014, 05:25:34 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2014, 07:08:15 PM
BEE didn't become the banner boy for the archetypal '80s young white male for nothing, Sav.

He wrote what he knew.

Has anyone read "Imperial Bedrooms" (the sequel to "Less than Zero'")?  They have a copy of it at my local library and I was wondering if it's worth the effort.

It wasn't; (even though it's just over 160 pages).  Clay has become some sort of Clay-Patrick Bateman hybrid in the past 25 years; so that he does disturbing things, but just doesn't care.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 20, 2014, 08:25:50 AM
Quote from: Maladict on September 29, 2014, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on September 29, 2014, 12:12:06 PM
I read the first volume of Will Durant's story of Civilization "Our Oriental Heritage."  It covers Egypt and the Middle East until Alexander and India, China and Japan to then then present day (1934.)

He takes a romantic view of the cultures of China and India; going so far as to praise Indian men for their sexual restraint.   :huh:

At the end of the volume he writes of the inevitability of a US war with Japan.  I've read some Monday morning quarterbacking of FDR's foreign policy in the Pacific in the 40s and 50s; so it was surprising to see Durant viewing it as inevitable.  Especially since it was written before even the Second Sino-Japanese war.

It's the weakest of the series by far. The romanticized writing is present in all volumes, but he does it very well.
I enjoyed reading them a lot, especially from vol.4 onwards.

I finished the second volume "The Life of Greece."  It was much better than the first; Durant is clearly more interested in the subject (and more knowledgeable of it as well.)  You're right, the romanticized view is still present and he dwells an awful lot on mythology.  Still it's a fun read; I wish I had read it in high school. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 20, 2014, 09:17:26 AM
Quote from: Liep on October 12, 2014, 09:21:15 AM
Cormac McCarthy - The Road. Well that was bleak.
Better read Blood Meridian next - it's a barrel of laughs!

[Well, not really.  ;) ]
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on October 20, 2014, 12:59:41 PM
I really should read another book, sometime this year.  :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 28, 2014, 10:16:42 AM
I've been going over a tourist book of Ravenna that I had gotten while there.  The translation into English isn't the best, and sometime I have to struggle to figure out what the author is getting at.  My favorite, thus far, is when the author refers to the conflict between the Guelph and Ghibelline not as an internecine war, but instead as an intestine war. :yuk:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 28, 2014, 10:20:09 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 28, 2014, 10:16:42 AM
I've been going over a tourist book of Ravenna that I had gotten while there.  The translation into English isn't the best, and sometime I have to struggle to figure out what the author is getting at.  My favorite, thus far, is when the author refers to the conflict between the Guelph and Ghibelline not as an internecine war, but instead as an intestine war. :yuk:

Simply descriptive.

As in, "carried out by sticking daggers in their enemy's intestines".  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on October 28, 2014, 10:54:15 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 28, 2014, 10:20:09 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 28, 2014, 10:16:42 AM
I've been going over a tourist book of Ravenna that I had gotten while there.  The translation into English isn't the best, and sometime I have to struggle to figure out what the author is getting at.  My favorite, thus far, is when the author refers to the conflict between the Guelph and Ghibelline not as an internecine war, but instead as an intestine war. :yuk:

Simply descriptive.

As in, "carried out by sticking daggers in their enemy's intestines".  :hmm:

"Intestine" can be used as an adjective with the meaning of "internal"; it's somewhat obsolete but still valid.

I've been informed elsewhere (but have been unable to confirm it, so at the least this may no longer be current) that said usage of the word is still present in the wording of the commission held by commissioned officers of Her Majesty' Forces.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 28, 2014, 10:57:12 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on October 28, 2014, 10:54:15 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 28, 2014, 10:20:09 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 28, 2014, 10:16:42 AM
I've been going over a tourist book of Ravenna that I had gotten while there.  The translation into English isn't the best, and sometime I have to struggle to figure out what the author is getting at.  My favorite, thus far, is when the author refers to the conflict between the Guelph and Ghibelline not as an internecine war, but instead as an intestine war. :yuk:

Simply descriptive.

As in, "carried out by sticking daggers in their enemy's intestines".  :hmm:

"Intestine" can be used as an adjective with the meaning of "internal"; it's somewhat obsolete but still valid.

I've been informed elsewhere (but have been unable to confirm it, so at the least this may no longer be current) that said usage of the word is still present in the wording of the commission held by commissioned officers of Her Majesty' Forces.

"Carried out by sticking daggers in their enemy's internals" works too.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 28, 2014, 10:57:57 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on October 28, 2014, 10:54:15 AM
"Intestine" can be used as an adjective with the meaning of "internal"; it's somewhat obsolete but still valid.

I've been informed elsewhere (but have been unable to confirm it, so at the least this may no longer be current) that said usage of the word is still present in the wording of the commission held by commissioned officers of Her Majesty' Forces.

I stand corrected; I've never seen it used that way before.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on October 28, 2014, 11:07:41 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 28, 2014, 10:57:57 AM
I stand corrected; I've never seen it used that way before.

I'm only aware of this because I tried to make a humorous post concerning another poster's usage of it in a thread on the Alternate History forums - only to discover that it was legitimate.

My post started, appropriately enough in hindsight, with "Ouch"...  :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on October 28, 2014, 12:09:21 PM
Anyone know anything on the late Roman Empire?  Like Aurelian, Diocletian, up to the Collapse.  Besides Heather. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on October 28, 2014, 01:27:11 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on October 28, 2014, 12:09:21 PM
Anyone know anything on the late Roman Empire?  Like Aurelian, Diocletian, up to the Collapse.  Besides Heather.

Peter Brown is your man. I haven't read his latest, Through the Eye of a Needle, but the reviews were good.
Averil Cameron also had a new book out a few years ago, The Mediterranean World in Late Antiquity: AD 395-600.

The Later Roman Empire by A.H.M. Jones is still a solid work, even though it is decades old.
Chris Wickham and Glen Bowersock are also quality authors.

There is much more, of course, but you'll need to be more specific.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 28, 2014, 01:32:28 PM
You want to read a fascinating bio, The Life of Belisarius: The Last Great General of Rome by Lord Mahon is fantastic despite its age, and a great window into the end-life of Rome.  What an amazing general.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on October 28, 2014, 01:51:56 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 28, 2014, 01:32:28 PM
You want to read a fascinating bio, The Life of Belisarius: The Last Great General of Rome by Lord Mahon is fantastic despite its age, and a great window into the end-life of Rome.  What an amazing general.

Count Belisarius by Robert Graves is good, too. It's historical fiction, but only barely fiction.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 28, 2014, 05:13:58 PM
IIRC, Goldsworthy has a chapter in In the Name of Rome about Julian's campaign in Gaul.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 28, 2014, 06:19:37 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on October 28, 2014, 12:09:21 PM
Anyone know anything on the late Roman Empire?  Like Aurelian, Diocletian, up to the Collapse.  Besides Heather.

http://www.amazon.ca/Fall-West-Death-Roman-Superpower-ebook/dp/B00GVG1222/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414537956&sr=8-1&keywords=the+fall+of+the+west
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on October 28, 2014, 07:50:04 PM
Some what on the theme of books, I'm severely temped to chuck this kindle at a wall, not used much and now it's dead.  <_<
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on October 28, 2014, 07:57:46 PM
The Complete Father Brown Stories by GK Chesterton.

Lots of plot reuse; however, still great material. Almost makes you wish you were an English Catholic in the early 20th century, like the Nolan brothers were before they time-traveled.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 28, 2014, 08:00:52 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 28, 2014, 07:50:04 PM
Some what on the theme of books, I'm severely temped to chuck this kindle at a wall, not used much and now it's dead.  <_<

Go back to the old Soviet method: ink printed on paper.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on October 28, 2014, 08:04:58 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 28, 2014, 08:00:52 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 28, 2014, 07:50:04 PM
Some what on the theme of books, I'm severely temped to chuck this kindle at a wall, not used much and now it's dead.  <_<

Go back to the old Soviet method: ink printed on paper.

Yeah, I'd never especially gotten  into e-books, but this whole walled garden software and disposable hardware is annoying.

Just thinking what to do with this piece of crap:
1. repair it, requires me to buy a replacement battery and take it appart.
2. throw it at the wall.
3. right a slightly sarcastic email to amazon, no doubt getting a goodwill offer of $20 of my next kindle.   <_<
4. Give it to my aquaintence the bookseller, so he might decide to put it in a small window display, preferable with a knife throught it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 28, 2014, 08:06:35 PM
Use it as a paperweight.  Revel in the irony.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on October 28, 2014, 08:26:25 PM
New phonebooks are here :

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2FWesteros_zpsd44d386f.jpg&hash=11553799b3219d82b37df61a9129e54e15afbfaf) (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/Habbaku/media/Westeros_zpsd44d386f.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on October 28, 2014, 08:32:08 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 28, 2014, 05:13:58 PM
IIRC, Goldsworthy has a chapter in In the Name of Rome about Julian's campaign in Gaul.

There's also his "How Rome Fell"

I'd also second Chris Wickham.

edit: Old but super detailed is J.B. Bury's 2 volume history of the later roman empire. I think it is Theodosius to Justinian though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on October 28, 2014, 08:41:03 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 28, 2014, 06:19:37 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on October 28, 2014, 12:09:21 PM
Anyone know anything on the late Roman Empire?  Like Aurelian, Diocletian, up to the Collapse.  Besides Heather.

http://www.amazon.ca/Fall-West-Death-Roman-Superpower-ebook/dp/B00GVG1222/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414537956&sr=8-1&keywords=the+fall+of+the+west

Hmm, from looking at comments on Amazon this is the same book as his "How Rome Fell"...but perhaps got a different name in different markets?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on October 28, 2014, 08:48:18 PM
On a different note - does anyone know of any good books on the Soviet Union? I tried to do a bit of a search and it looks like most works either look at initial revolution or random events/leaders throughout its history. I was hoping to find something that covered a good chunk of time - like the early years or something like that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on October 29, 2014, 09:01:18 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 28, 2014, 08:48:18 PM
On a different note - does anyone know of any good books on the Soviet Union? I tried to do a bit of a search and it looks like most works either look at initial revolution or random events/leaders throughout its history. I was hoping to find something that covered a good chunk of time - like the early years or something like that.

You could try Orlando Fige's "A People's Tragedy" which covers 1891-1924.

He's also done a broader history 1891-1991

Robert Service has written a Penguin history from the 1890s to the present day.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on October 29, 2014, 10:37:00 AM
Ah thanks. They both (particularly the 1st!) look fairly substantial! :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 29, 2014, 01:11:40 PM
I finished reading Jeff Abbott's "Trust Me"; it's yet another thriller where a normal person gets drawn into a world of terror, deceit and ass-kicking.  The problem with this one is that the protagonist is just a graduate student.  It's not even remotely credible that he can take on a terrorist organization by himself.  The chance occurrences and dumb luck that the protagonist experiences throughout the novel is wince-inducing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 29, 2014, 01:42:27 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 29, 2014, 01:11:40 PM
I finished reading Jeff Abbott's "Trust Me"; it's yet another thriller where a normal person gets drawn into a world of terror, deceit and ass-kicking.  The problem with this one is that the protagonist is just a graduate student.  It's not even remotely credible that he can take on a terrorist organization by himself. 

Exactly. Everyone knows only tenured faculty can do that.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 29, 2014, 01:50:15 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 29, 2014, 01:11:40 PM
I finished reading Jeff Abbott's "Trust Me"; it's yet another thriller where a normal person gets drawn into a world of terror, deceit and ass-kicking.  The problem with this one is that the protagonist is just a graduate student.  It's not even remotely credible that he can take on a terrorist organization by himself.  The chance occurrences and dumb luck that the protagonist experiences throughout the novel is wince-inducing.

Did you ever read LotR?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 29, 2014, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 29, 2014, 01:42:27 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 29, 2014, 01:11:40 PM
I finished reading Jeff Abbott's "Trust Me"; it's yet another thriller where a normal person gets drawn into a world of terror, deceit and ass-kicking.  The problem with this one is that the protagonist is just a graduate student.  It's not even remotely credible that he can take on a terrorist organization by himself. 

Exactly. Everyone knows only tenured faculty can do that.  ;)

Beat me to it. :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 29, 2014, 05:00:10 PM
So the China kick continues.

So far I've read a general history which was inevitably pretty brisk and Jonathan Fenby's Penguin history of Modern China (I've got his biography of Chiang Kai-Shek to go) and I'm about two-thirds through the Romance of the Three Kingdoms which I absolutely love.

Also taking a brief detour into Chinese philosophy/religion. I still understand not a single thing about Taoism but the reading on Confucianism and Buddhism has been more enlightening :lol:

Recently read the first Falco novel too. I'm frankly scandalised no-one here had told me about this :contract:

Currently also reading Hawksmoore by Peter Ackroyd which, like his history of London, I'm probably going to buy in bulk and force on several unwilling, uninterested friends :w00t:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 29, 2014, 05:11:56 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 29, 2014, 05:00:10 PM
So the China kick continues.

So far I've read a general history which was inevitably pretty brisk and Jonathan Fenby's Penguin history of Modern China (I've got his biography of Chiang Kai-Shek to go) and I'm about two-thirds through the Romance of the Three Kingdoms which I absolutely love.

Also taking a brief detour into Chinese philosophy/religion. I still understand not a single thing about Taoism but the reading on Confucianism and Buddhism has been more enlightening :lol:

Recently read the first Falco novel too. I'm frankly scandalised no-one here had told me about this :contract:

Currently also reading Hawksmoore by Peter Ackroyd which, like his history of London, I'm probably going to buy in bulk and force on several unwilling, uninterested friends :w00t:

To understand about Taoism without being truly hopelessly confused, you have to understand that the term is used to cover some completely different notions.

To gove an example, "Taoism" can be used to desribe a sub-type of traditional Chinese religion - complete with temples, gods, and a full set of theology.

OTOH, there is philosophical Taoism - which is a species of mysticism (an intuitive-based philosophy) claiming to provide insight into the nature or perception and man's place within the natural world (as well as a basically libertarian social philosophy), but which is completely non-religious.

Many educated Chinese officials in past centures where "Taoist" in the sense of adopting Taoist philosophy as a way of understanding the universe, were "Confucian" at the office, and adopted "Buddhist" or "Taoist" religious rites - and saw no contradiction.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 29, 2014, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 29, 2014, 01:42:27 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 29, 2014, 01:11:40 PM
I finished reading Jeff Abbott's "Trust Me"; it's yet another thriller where a normal person gets drawn into a world of terror, deceit and ass-kicking.  The problem with this one is that the protagonist is just a graduate student.  It's not even remotely credible that he can take on a terrorist organization by himself. 

Exactly. Everyone knows only tenured faculty can do that.  ;)

It works for Dan Brown, apparently, despite his protagonist's total lack of STEM qualifications.
But I prefer Grisham, where no evil plot is safe in the face of a spunky junior associate.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on October 29, 2014, 05:47:20 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 29, 2014, 05:00:10 PM
Recently read the first Falco novel too. I'm frankly scandalised no-one here had told me about this :contract:

:o

Good grief, you're right.

No one in this thread has recommended the "Falco" books by Lindsey Davis.

OK, consider the recommendation made. An excellent series of Roman whodunnits with a large and evolving cast, excellent research and the odd gripping storyline. Even the worst of them (and there is a couple of relative duds) is a decent light read.

Has recently jumped ahead a decade or so in the timeline and started a "next generation" series focused around Falco's adopted daughter...which I suspect may be the author's way of getting to something she foreshadowed in the first novel before she dies of old age. :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 30, 2014, 12:02:41 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 29, 2014, 05:00:10 PM
Also taking a brief detour into Chinese philosophy/religion. I still understand not a single thing about Taoism but the reading on Confucianism and Buddhism has been more enlightening :lol:

All you really need to know is that the Tao is not the Tao.  :homestar:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on October 30, 2014, 03:15:02 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 29, 2014, 05:00:10 PM
Currently also reading Hawksmoore by Peter Ackroyd which, like his history of London, I'm probably going to buy in bulk and force on several unwilling, uninterested friends :w00t:

I didn't like the Ackroyd history of London that much. I find his prose style too ornate for a history.

Just finishing up Rober Harris's "An officer and a spy", a novelisation of the Dreyfus affair. A detective/spy novel really. Well written and forensically interesting but you feel it could be a bit broader in setting the affair in the context of French society.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2014, 04:19:41 AM
Went a little nuts when I saw these prices and bought all four of these. They were super cheap for Oxford Histories. I've only read The Battle Cry of Freedom, a renowned work that I'm sure many people here have read as well. It won the Pulitzer Prize in 1989. What Hath God Wrought did the same in 2009 and both The Glorious Cause and Empire of Liberty were finalists for the award in 1983 and 2010 respectively so I'm in for a treat. Spent about $30 for all four on Kindle.

The Glorious Cause:  The American Revolution, 1763–1789 by Robert Middlekauff
Empire of Liberty: A History of the Early Republic, 1789–1815 by Gordon S. Wood
What Hath God Wrought: The Transformation of America, 1815–1848 by Daniel Walker Howe
Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era by James McPherson
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 30, 2014, 11:18:19 AM
I finished "Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis's Favorite Poems" as chosen by Caroline Kennedy

Rather than a collection of Jackie-Os favorite poems, this is a collection of poems that had significance for the Kennedy family, and and especially for Caroline.  (If you ever have the choice; pick a beloved martyr as one parent, and one beloved fashion-plate as the other.)  There's a lot of Robert Frost, some Shakespeare, a few passages from the Bible, and just enough Langston Hughes to assuage white guilt.  There's even a suitable warning before the section of romantic poem about the changing role of women.  It's an inoffensive collection of verse collected by a woman determined to cash in on her parents legacy. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 30, 2014, 11:25:42 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2014, 04:19:41 AM
Empire of Liberty: A History of the Early Republic, 1789–1815 by Gordon S. Wood

I love Wood's stuff;  his The Radicalism of the American Revolution is a much better place to start.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 30, 2014, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2014, 04:19:41 AM
Went a little nuts when I saw these prices and bought all four of these. They were super cheap for Oxford Histories.

It's a good series.  The Howe book is probably the best, fascinating period.  Middlekauf is very solid.  The Wood book is CDM says is a bit disappointing given the author's reputation and prior works but still worth reading for a good overview of the period. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 30, 2014, 12:23:22 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 30, 2014, 12:05:50 PM
The Wood book is CDM says is a bit disappointing given the author's reputation and prior works but still worth reading for a good overview of the period.

It's a good appetizer, particularly as an introduction to the pre-revolutionary period.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 30, 2014, 12:26:03 PM
Speaking of the AWI, does anybody read Charles Beard anymore?  Or is he still out of fashion?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on October 30, 2014, 01:19:09 PM
Been vaguely looking for a decent overview of early American history. Have downloaded the Wood book. Thanks for the tip off Tim.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 02, 2014, 02:29:48 PM
Ayoade on Ayoade: A Cinematic Odyssey. I love Richard Ayoade, and there were many LOL moments.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 02, 2014, 02:32:51 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 30, 2014, 12:26:03 PM
Speaking of the AWI, does anybody read Charles Beard anymore?  Or is he still out of fashion?

Out of fashion for about 50 years I think.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 02, 2014, 05:49:45 PM
Quote from: Gups on October 30, 2014, 03:15:02 AM
I didn't like the Ackroyd history of London that much. I find his prose style too ornate for a history.
I enjoyed it, but it was jarring. I think once I realised this wasn't just a mood setting introductory affectation, but a permanent one the book got a lot better.

Edit: And Hawksmoor is very similar, but obviously a novel. His 17th/18th century first person narrative sections are extraordinary.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 02, 2014, 06:15:57 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 02, 2014, 02:32:51 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 30, 2014, 12:26:03 PM
Speaking of the AWI, does anybody read Charles Beard anymore?  Or is he still out of fashion?

Out of fashion for about 50 years I think.

Just never got past that whole WW1 thing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on November 02, 2014, 09:53:27 PM
For a combo of work and mutual enjoyment I've been reading some French and Indian War/Seven Years War material.  I just finished Crucible of War by Fred Anderson, which I thoroughly enjoyed, and am now starting into The French and Indian War and the Conquest of New France by William R. Nester.  Definitely a fan of the era, but it just makes me realize more and more how fucked up Colonial Americans were.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 02, 2014, 09:55:56 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on November 02, 2014, 09:53:27 PM
Definitely a fan of the era, but it just makes me realize more and more how fucked up Colonial Americans were.

Yeah, and it's their spirit of freedomism and libertytude that conservatives insist on embracing as virtues.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on November 02, 2014, 10:20:41 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 02, 2014, 09:55:56 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on November 02, 2014, 09:53:27 PM
Definitely a fan of the era, but it just makes me realize more and more how fucked up Colonial Americans were.

Yeah, and it's their spirit of freedomism and libertytude that conservatives insist on embracing as virtues.
They would fit right in.  Christianity is incredibly important unless it contradicts the, brown people are dangerous and need to be wiped out if they can't be bought out, taxes are great as long as they themselves aren't taxed, laws are great as long as they themselves don't have to abide by them, stir up the poorest masses with distorted press and bribery to do your bidding when you can't bribe the top people, wars are great for fun and profit, every other non-WASP group is suspect and should be treated as such, the French are horrible, etc., etc.  I can definitely see why they look to them for guidance.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 02, 2014, 11:43:18 PM
Quote from: Gups on October 30, 2014, 01:19:09 PM
Been vaguely looking for a decent overview of early American history. Have downloaded the Wood book. Thanks for the tip off Tim.
You're welcome. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on November 04, 2014, 08:56:21 PM
OK help me, I'm getting quite tempted by this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Oxford-Dictionary-National-Biography-Association/dp/019861411X/ref=cm_rdp_product (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Oxford-Dictionary-National-Biography-Association/dp/019861411X/ref=cm_rdp_product)


What's principally stopping me at the moment is the lack of shelf space.  :D


edit:
incidentally that works out at less than 2c per page.  :cool:

or enough paper in the volumes to cover more two-thirds of ManU's Old Trafford football pitch.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 04, 2014, 09:18:51 PM
Quote from: Gups on October 29, 2014, 09:01:18 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 28, 2014, 08:48:18 PM
On a different note - does anyone know of any good books on the Soviet Union? I tried to do a bit of a search and it looks like most works either look at initial revolution or random events/leaders throughout its history. I was hoping to find something that covered a good chunk of time - like the early years or something like that.

You could try Orlando Fige's "A People's Tragedy" which covers 1891-1924.

He's also done a broader history 1891-1991

Robert Service has written a Penguin history from the 1890s to the present day.

Wow, Fige's book just came and it is like a brick. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on November 04, 2014, 11:05:46 PM
It's worth the read.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on November 08, 2014, 09:03:14 PM
Anyone have any recommendations for books on Oliver Cromwell and/or the English Civil War?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 09, 2014, 06:40:24 AM
Britain in Revolution by Austin Woolrych
God's Englishman by Christopher Hill
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 15, 2014, 12:30:02 AM
So rather than seeing the movie, I opted to read Gone Girl now. What a rather dreadful read that was.

[spoiler]I found it deeply unsatisfying as Amy was completely repugnant post the twist with no real explanation other than "she's just so psycho." The ending also made no sense whatsoever with his whole falling back in love with her and then deciding that they would raise a baby together. It felt like the author used up all of her energy in creating the minute details of Amy's plot and then sort of lost steam after that.

I did appreciate learning that every single one of the diary entries was completely faked. That was something I wasn't expecting - and I can always love a good, unreliable narrator. Shame the "good" can no longer be applied to Amy's chapters post the reveal.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on November 15, 2014, 08:07:12 AM
I finished the third book of Will Durant's story of civilization; "Caesar and Christ."  Septimius Severus would be a great name for a super villain, or maybe a rival claimant to the Cobra organization along with Cobra Commander and Serpentor.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 15, 2014, 08:21:30 AM
I have a picture of him as my smart phone sleep screen (and Marcus Aurelius as normal wallpaper).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 16, 2014, 11:45:42 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on November 15, 2014, 08:07:12 AM
I finished the third book of Will Durant's story of civilization; "Caesar and Christ."  Septimius Severus would be a great name for a super villain, or maybe a rival claimant to the Cobra organization along with Cobra Commander and Serpentor.

The best super villain Emperor name remains Maximinus Thrax.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on November 16, 2014, 12:11:16 PM
Adam Tooze's new history is latest on the doorstep :

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51%252BVaDLvC-L.jpg&hash=bd9765924c8cd41f523e2659c1948abb2e2b35ff)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 17, 2014, 11:17:25 AM
Ooh.  I want that one.
Can't wait to see if he takes a few shots at the teenaged Albert Speer.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on November 17, 2014, 11:24:53 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on November 18, 2014, 12:45:01 PM
Started reading Piketty. Wish me luck.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on November 18, 2014, 01:00:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 18, 2014, 12:45:01 PM
Started reading Piketty. Wish me luck.

Let me know what assets I need to hoard to be one of the super rich people.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on November 18, 2014, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 18, 2014, 12:45:01 PM
Started reading Piketty. Wish me luck.

Will you be like the vast majority and not make it past page 20?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 18, 2014, 01:50:26 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 18, 2014, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 18, 2014, 12:45:01 PM
Started reading Piketty. Wish me luck.

Will you be like the vast majority and not make it past page 20?

Some of the reviewers didn't even make it that far . . .
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on November 18, 2014, 02:00:38 PM
I picked up a book on early Missouri history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 18, 2014, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 18, 2014, 12:45:01 PM
Started reading Piketty. Wish me luck.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmontrealfilmjournal.com%2Fdat%2Fpic%2FM0000208.jpg&hash=8c16f555d470e24b3332d8c6ca91c3d7455f8297)



(Kidding)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on November 18, 2014, 02:08:18 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 18, 2014, 01:50:26 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 18, 2014, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 18, 2014, 12:45:01 PM
Started reading Piketty. Wish me luck.

Will you be like the vast majority and not make it past page 20?

Some of the reviewers didn't even make it that far . . .

I recall reading a book a while back, then checking out some reviews.  A professional one clearly had not made it past page 3.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 24, 2014, 10:49:43 PM
This book sounds interesting:
QuoteEmmanuel Carrère: a poet and psychopath doing his best to further destabilise Ukraine
In a review of Limonov by Emmanuel Carrère, a one-time poet, now full-blown psychopath, emerges as one of the most controversial characters of contemporary Russia
BOOKS 2 Comments Boris Dralyuk 22 November 2014

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.spectator.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F11%2FLimonov-275x413.jpg&hash=6d2cff44d3bb1fd48a404f9d587669a1e90301af)
Limonov: A Novel Emmanuel Carrère (translated by John Lambert)
Allen Lane, pp.340, £20, ISBN: 9781846148200

If Eduard Limonov, the subject of Emmanuel Carrère's utterly engrossing biographical 'novel', hadn't invented himself, Carrère would have had to invent him. This is not to say that Limonov, one of the most colourful and controversial characters to have emerged on the Russian literary and political landscapes in the last half century, is a liar. Quite the contrary. At any given moment — be he an adolescent hoodlum in the industrial Ukrainian city of Kharkiv in the 1950s and 1960s, a promising poet in Moscow in the relatively peaceful but stultifying Brezhnev years, a resentful down-and-out-émigré memoirist in punk-era New York, a mercenary with the Serbs at Sarajevo in the ugliest moments of the Yugoslav wars, or the leader of a pseudo-fascist political party of 'National Bolsheviks', hell-bent on restoring Russia's former glory and willing to serve a stint in prison to prove his resolve — Limonov is fiercely committed to his role, inhabiting it completely.

But it is very much a role, and one he had selected before he had a name for it, when he was still a young scrapper named Eduard Savenko, son of a middling KGB colonel, deciding between a life of crime and one of poetry. As Carrère reports, one of the pivotal moments in his subject's life occurred at a salon for the underground poets and artists of Kharkiv, hosted by Limonov's soon-to-be common-law wife, Anna Rubinstein:
One night, the little group assembled at Anna's place to play at renaming themselves. Eduard Savenko [becomes] Ed Limonov, a tribute to his bellicose humour, because limon means 'lemon', and limonka is slang for a kind of hand grenade. While the others will drop those pseudonyms, he'll keep his. Even his name he wants to owe to no one but himself.

From that point on, Limonov was to be Savenko's nom de plume and nom de guerre; there was no looking back. There was no more Savenko.

This moment may hold a key to much that is seemingly inexplicable in Limonov's career — much that may strike the western eye as a blatant contradiction. Take the rabid nationalist's philo-Semitism:
There are a lot of things you can hold against Eduard, but not anti-Semitism. It has nothing to do with his moral elevation, nor with his historical consciousness — like most Russians who perpetuate the memory of their 20 million war dead, he couldn't care less about the Shoah — but with a sort of snobbery. For him the fact that your average Russian — and even more your average Ukrainian — is an anti-Semite is the best reason not to be one yourself. Looking askance at Jews is something for blinkered, dull-witted rednecks, something for a Savenko.

There are indeed a lot of things one can hold against Eduard: he is, in all likelihood, a war criminal, and is currently doing his — thankfully inadequate — best to foment further destabilisation in the east of Ukraine. He is a narcissist, perhaps a genuine psychopath. But this intrepid adventurer, this self-invented man of action, this writer of stirring, provocative, hilarious and often heartbreaking autobiographical 'novels', is also a representative figure (dare I say hero?) of our time.

He is an unreconstructed romantic, embodying the best and, largely, the worst ideals associated with the type. No wonder he fascinates Carrère, who is, for all his talent and achievement, an essentially average man, a bourgeois. Carrère toys with right-wing ideology in youth: Limonov leads a nationalist party. Carrère sets off for Java with his ravishing girlfriend in order to avoid military service, and returns to Paris alone, with a bad novel and two crates of unsellable bathing suits; Limonov sets off for New York from the Soviet Union, knowing he can never return, loses the woman of his dreams, roams the streets, takes on odd and demeaning jobs, makes love to a black man at a playground, and pursues fame as a writer without ever wavering, until he finally makes it. Carrère spends a year writing a book about Werner Herzog, has the subject call it 'bullshit' to his face, and continues to interview the man, swallowing his pride and masking his devastation; Limonov never misses an opportunity to bite at the heels of better-regarded poets and authors, like Brodsky and Solzhenitsyn, and punches a British writer in the face for defaming the Soviet Union.


Limonov has lived a life so thoroughly informed by romantic ideals that it verges on a parody of those ideals, and Carrère — weaned, like Savenko, on Dumas's Three Musketeers and The Count of Monte Cristo — explores its allure, its bathos, and its frightening consequences.

And this, in turn, allows Carrère to explore something even more consequential: the resonance, though far from perfect harmony, between Limonov's peculiar ideology and that of the current Russian administration, as well as his intuitive, deeply felt sense of what has motivated Russia's retreat from the West, of the spirit of resentment and revanchism that determines the nation's stance in the world.

Those interested in understanding the forces at play in Putin's Russia and on its periphery can learn a lot from Carrère's insightful reflections on Limonov's unlikely but (mostly) true story.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on November 25, 2014, 03:10:10 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 02, 2014, 11:43:18 PM
Quote from: Gups on October 30, 2014, 01:19:09 PM
Been vaguely looking for a decent overview of early American history. Have downloaded the Wood book. Thanks for the tip off Tim.
You're welcome. :)

About 300 pages in. It's very solid and is filling a big gap in my knowledge of American history. It's a little too top down though - so far all political/constitutional history with nothing much about economics or social changes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 25, 2014, 12:44:34 PM
The Howe book is better on that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 27, 2014, 03:19:28 AM
Finished Philip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?"

Blade Runner is one of my favorite movies, so I thought it was time I finally read the book it's based on. I knew that the movie was a very loose adaptation of the source, but I didn't expect something of a Fallout setting. :lol:

Still, a very good book, and though not a religious or even spiritual person I liked the take on the subject that the book offers.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 27, 2014, 03:32:44 AM
Jo Jo's thread inspired me to pick up The Stand.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 27, 2014, 12:50:32 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 27, 2014, 03:32:44 AM
Jo Jo's thread inspired me to pick up The Stand.

It starts to get turgid at around 40%;  push through it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 10, 2014, 03:35:25 AM
I've started reading the first Harry Potter book. I'm 1/3 in and enjoy it much more than I thought I would. :blush:

I haven't watched the movies and have thus far avoided the books, mostly because everyone and their dog was hyping the books to high heavens which I often find off-putting. With the dust now settled I've decided to give them a try.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 10, 2014, 09:52:43 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 10, 2014, 03:35:25 AM
I've started reading the first Harry Potter book. I'm 1/3 in and enjoy it much more than I thought I would. :blush:

I haven't watched the movies and have thus far avoided the books, mostly because everyone and their dog was hyping the books to high heavens which I often find off-putting. With the dust now settled I've decided to give them a try.

I've never gotten into them either, chalking them up as "Young Adult" Lit.  I mean, I read stuff like Lloyd Alexander as a kid and Tolkien in junior high, so I figured it was simply a modern regurgitation of stuff I'd left behind.  But for reasons unknown to me, people say I would love Voldemort. :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 10, 2014, 09:57:48 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 10, 2014, 03:35:25 AM
I've started reading the first Harry Potter book. I'm 1/3 in and enjoy it much more than I thought I would. :blush:

I haven't watched the movies and have thus far avoided the books, mostly because everyone and their dog was hyping the books to high heavens which I often find off-putting. With the dust now settled I've decided to give them a try.
Harry Potter's great.

The film's less so. The first two are particularly bad, the third one is superb, the rest are mostly decent.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on December 10, 2014, 10:07:51 AM
I had the reverse reaction earlier this year when I re-read first 4 then finished off series. Well sort of, I remember liking first 3 when I was young but by 4th I felt "too old" and found it boring / gave up. Re-reading them, I found all but book 1 to not be a good use of time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on December 10, 2014, 10:48:08 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2014, 10:07:51 AM
Re-reading them, I found all but book 1 to not be a good use of time.

I find this happens a lot with series. When re-reading, more of the same (even if it is good) just doesn't cut it for me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 10, 2014, 10:51:55 AM
I avoid that by very rarely re-reading :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on December 10, 2014, 11:17:29 AM
Quote from: Maladict on December 10, 2014, 10:48:08 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2014, 10:07:51 AM
Re-reading them, I found all but book 1 to not be a good use of time.

I find this happens a lot with series. When re-reading, more of the same (even if it is good) just doesn't cut it for me.

Well I don't know if that's applicable here. I re-read the early books, in this case, because I'd forgotten almost everything about them/had read them more than a decade ago. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on December 10, 2014, 12:18:22 PM
For reasons I don't fully understand, I am reading a book called What About Tongue Speaking?, published in 1966 by the Dutch-born American Calvinist theologian Anthony Hoekema.  It sets out to refute Pentecostal arguments about the lineage/validity of glossolalia, which is a pretty interesting point-counterpoint history of Christianity through this narrow lens.

Hoekema doesn't fool around, but he does at least embrace the Pentecostals as fellow Christians who just need some guidance in their whacko excesses.  The same cannot be said for the groups he discusses in the other book of his that I bought for no real reason, The Four Major Cults, published in 1963. 

Those four are:  Mormons, Seventh-Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Christian Scientists.  He really comes down hard on Mormons, concluding the section by essentially saying they are unmitigated evil and have no right to call themselves Christians.  He's softest on the Seventh-Day Adventists, but ultimately concludes they aren't Christians.

But the book is an interesting relic of essentially the "pre-evangelical" dominant model of Protestantism in 50s-60s America.  Hoekema spends a lot of time analyzing what Christians can learn from the success of the 'cults' in attracting followers -- most centrally that they aren't afraid to say it loud and say it proud; while the Protestant churches suffered from being too quiet, private, and staid in their practice, too afraid to get out there proselytizing and witnessing.  That certainly changed in a big way in the 70s and 80s.

Again, not too sure why I thought these books were crucial enough to actually buy and read, but having done so, I'm pretty satisfied. 

Two recent arrivals: a history of Puerto Ricans in America (forget the title); and a classic work of sociology on criminal justice, developed from the author's observation of thousands of cases as they proceeded through district court (misdemeanors and low-level felonies) in New Haven, Conn. in the mid-70s. 

It has an utterly apt title: The Process Is The Punishment.  I've already read this, but I quote the title line frequently to my clients to give them a context for their frustration, so I wanted to have it in my office.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 10, 2014, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on December 10, 2014, 12:18:22 PM
Two recent arrivals: a history of Puerto Ricans in America (forget the title);

You didn't forget the title, it was stolen.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on December 10, 2014, 06:54:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 10, 2014, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on December 10, 2014, 12:18:22 PM
Two recent arrivals: a history of Puerto Ricans in America (forget the title);

You didn't forget the title, it was stolen.

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on December 15, 2014, 12:27:18 AM
Anyone have any recommendations that cover the 1848 revolutions?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 16, 2014, 05:56:37 PM
Eric Hobsbawm - The Age of Revolution.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 20, 2014, 03:36:26 PM
Online version of one of the cornerstone studies of the German side.

Moscow To Stalingrad: Decision In The East (1987)
by Earl F. Ziemke and Magna E. Bauer III

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-EF-Decision/


Stalingrad to Berlin:The German Defeat in the East (1968)
Earl F. Ziemke

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-EF-Defeat/index.html#index
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 20, 2014, 05:06:36 PM
American Forces in Action Series
St-Lô
(7 July--19 July 1944)

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-A-StLo/index.html


Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 20, 2014, 07:13:59 PM
Anyone read
The Blitzkrieg Legend by Karl-Heinz Frieser

QuoteThis analysis was written by Colonel Karl-Heinz Frieser, a German officer/historian who used German, British, and French source documents, making excellent use of them. His basic thesis is that the German attack on France, Belgium, and the Netherlands was a near-run victory, with many potential points of failure. The Germans gambled on "Operation Sickle Cut" because they knew they could not afford a prolonged conflict. The Allies outnumbered the Germans in every significant military category, to include tanks, planes, and divisions. It took luck, persistence, and audacity for the Germans to pull off their stunning victory. When you read Frieser's narrative you will be amazed about the complacency of the Allies and their near total incompetence in preparing for the much expected German attack. If I had to pick a simple theme to sum up the collapse of the Allies, it was their commitment to their defensive plans and inability to adapt when the plan fell apart. The German plan didn't work as planned in the details, but the front line commanders had the mental agility to exploit weaknesses as they presented themselves. German commanders like Kleist, Guderian, and Rommel never lost their nerve and pressed on even as their own higher headquarters got nervous with any unexpected delay or advance. Frieser lays out the good, bad, and ugly on both sides of the campaign, much of which is glossed over in survey works of World War II. Frieser pulls the evidence together and makes the case that nearly every key aspect of the campaign went the Germans way, which with some clear thinking and decisive action, the Allies could have defeated. Excellent book - well worth tracking down and reading.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 20, 2014, 10:36:10 PM
Picked it up but haven't gotten to it yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 21, 2014, 02:57:06 AM
Currently reading The French Army and the First World War by Greenhalgh (Cambridge University Press). A very odd thing: the book says that the Tsar was executed in July 1917. It's not a typo or anything like that, while discussing events on the Russian front in summer 1917 suddenly "Nicholas and his family were executed in Ekaterinburg on 16 July". Which makes me doubt every fact in the book. Weird. :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 25, 2014, 06:22:03 PM
Finished A Warrior Dynasty: The Rise and Fall of Sweden as a Military Superpower, 1611-1721, by Lunde. Lightweight and with some errors it's still a serviceable introduction to the subject since the author relies on modern works. But if you're really interested my recommendation remains Frost's The Northern Wars 1558-1721, which is an excellent book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 26, 2014, 08:11:08 PM
Reading
Tomb of the Panzerwaffe: The Defeat of the Sixth SS Panzer Army in Hungary 1945 by Isaev and Kolomiets

Spot reading
Days of Battle: Armoured Operations North of the River Danube, Hungary 1944-45 by Nortbert Számvéber. He covers Operation Südwind, the last successful German offensive in the east, in very good detail. He also has excellent coverage of the Hungarian "Szent Laszlo" Division.

Started reading the first Longmire book too.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 26, 2014, 08:15:29 PM
Two eagerly awaited books have been pushed to 2015  :mad: MOTHER FUCKER

Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army

and

The Sword Behind The Shield: A Combat History of the German Efforts to Relieve Budapest 1945 - Operation 'Konrad' I, III, III
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on January 04, 2015, 10:48:50 AM
2014 in reading:

Boethius, Anicius - The Consolation of Philosophy   10/10
Alighieri, Dante - Purgatorio   9.5/10
Manning, Frederic - Her privates we (The Middle Parts of Fortune)   9/10
Alighieri, Dante - The Inferno   9/10
Schalansky, Judith - Atlas of Remote Islands   9/10
Thubron, Colin - The Lost Heart of Asia   8.5/10
Cain, Susan - Quiet   8.5/10
Sebald, W. G. - The Rings Of Saturn   8.5/10
Buchheim, Lothar Gunther - Das Boot   8.5/10
Overy, Richard - The Bombing War: Europe, 1939-1945   8.5/10
Davies, Norman - Microcosm   8/10
Jamie, Kathleen - Sightlines   8/10
Kahneman, Daniel - Thinking, fast and slow   8/10
Fry, Stephen - Moab is my washpot   8/10
Faulks, Sebastian - A Possible Life   8/10
Rodger, N. A. M. - The Safeguard of the Sea: A Naval History of Britain 660-1649   8/10
Schlosser, Eric - Command and Control   8/10
Cellini, Benvenuto - The Life of Benvenuto Cellini   8/10
Keates, Jonathan - The Siege of Venice   8/10
Boorstin, Daniel J. - The Discoverers vol.I   8/10
Merridale, Catherine - Red Fortress: The Secret Heart of Russia's History   7.5/10
Barrow, John - The Mutiny of HMS Bounty   7.5/10
Boorstin, Daniel J. - The Discoverers vol.II   7.5/10
Adams, Douglas - The Ultimate Hitchhiker's Guide   7/10
Crowley, Roger - Empires of the Sea   7/10
Pamuk, Orhan - Istanbul: Memories and the City   7/10
Fry, Stephen - Making History   7/10
Sovndal, Shannon - Fitness Cycling   7/10
Wijnants, N. - Dertigersdilemma   7/10
Lundberg, W. Bruce - Steps Off the Beaten Path   7/10
Borneman, Walter R. - The Admirals   6.5/10
De Jong, Wilfried - De man en zijn fiets   6/10
Wieringa, Tommy - Een mooie jonge vrouw   5/10
      
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 04, 2015, 10:54:53 AM
Maladict wins again.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on January 04, 2015, 10:55:38 AM
 :showoff:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 04, 2015, 11:02:24 AM
Quote from: Maladict on January 04, 2015, 10:48:50 AM
Fry, Stephen - Moab is my washpot   8/10

What does he have to say about Edom?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on January 04, 2015, 11:08:57 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 04, 2015, 11:02:24 AM

What does he have to say about Edom?

It might be in part 2 or 3, I'll let you know next year.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2015, 07:28:47 PM
A book written specifically for Neil! :w00t:

http://www.amazon.com/Crooked-Austin-Grossman/dp/031619851X/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 13, 2015, 07:37:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2015, 07:28:47 PM
A book written specifically for Neil! :w00t:

http://www.amazon.com/Crooked-Austin-Grossman/dp/031619851X/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

QuoteAWARD-WINNING NOVELIST AUSTIN GROSSMAN REIMAGINES THE COLD WAR AS AN EPIC BATTLE AGAINST THE OCCULT WAGED BY THE ULTIMATE AMERICAN ANTIHERO--RICHARD NIXON.

:lol:

Nixon was a crook.  :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 14, 2015, 08:33:31 AM
QuoteHere for the first time is the tale told in his own words: the terrifying supernatural secret he stumbled upon as a young man, the truth behind the Cold War, and the truth behind the Watergate cover-up. What if our nation's worst president was actually a pivotal figure caught in a desperate struggle between ordinary life and horrors from another reality? What if the man we call our worst president was, in truth, our greatest?

In Crooked, Nixon finally reveals the secret history of modern American politics as only Austin Grossman could reimagine it. Combining Lovecraftian suspense, international intrigue, Russian honey traps, and a presidential marriage whose secrets and battles of attrition were their own heroic saga, Grossman's novel is a masterwork of alternative history, equal parts mesmerizing character study and nail-biting Faustian thriller.

Jesus Alger Hiss Christ.
Somebody read this and tell me how Al Haig works out.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 14, 2015, 08:40:35 AM
In an alt history, Haig could have really been in charge.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 14, 2015, 08:41:04 AM
You asshole.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 14, 2015, 02:27:23 PM
This year I intend to read at least one book.  :smarty:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 14, 2015, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 14, 2015, 02:27:23 PM
This year I intend to read at least one book.  :smarty:

Am I missing something? Do you dislike reading? :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 14, 2015, 02:38:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 14, 2015, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 14, 2015, 02:27:23 PM
This year I intend to read at least one book.  :smarty:

Am I missing something? Do you dislike reading? :unsure:

Yes, inquiring minds want to know. I even manage an average of 10.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 14, 2015, 03:52:17 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2015, 02:38:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 14, 2015, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 14, 2015, 02:27:23 PM
This year I intend to read at least one book.  :smarty:

Am I missing something? Do you dislike reading? :unsure:

Yes, inquiring minds want to know. I even manage an average of 10.

It's just finding/setting aside the time to do it.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on January 14, 2015, 04:55:55 PM
I know this is pretty vague, but I'm looking for recommendations for a good sci-fi or fantasy book (or saga). I have read most of what could be considered "classic", so I'm actually looking for something a bit modern.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 14, 2015, 05:36:25 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 14, 2015, 04:55:55 PM
I know this is pretty vague, but I'm looking for recommendations for a good sci-fi or fantasy book (or saga). I have read most of what could be considered "classic", so I'm actually looking for something a bit modern.

Well I don't know what you consider good but I've always liked Kate Elliot's Crossroads and The Novels of the Jaran series. The latter is a bit older (90s) but I think an interesting look at sci-fi + primitive cultures. Neither have fully solid endings though (not as in disappointing - as in she has left room to finish writing if she chooses too :D).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 14, 2015, 05:52:29 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 14, 2015, 04:55:55 PM
I know this is pretty vague, but I'm looking for recommendations for a good sci-fi or fantasy book (or saga). I have read most of what could be considered "classic", so I'm actually looking for something a bit modern.

Brian Aldiss's Helliconia trilogy, combines planetary science with broad historical themes oh and some sex. The human relationships are also often quite well drawn.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2015, 08:17:04 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 14, 2015, 04:55:55 PM
I know this is pretty vague, but I'm looking for recommendations for a good sci-fi or fantasy book (or saga). I have read most of what could be considered "classic", so I'm actually looking for something a bit modern.
For fantasy try this

http://www.amazon.com/The-Way-Kings-Stormlight-Archive/dp/0765365278
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 14, 2015, 08:18:42 PM
I knew you were going to suggest Brian Sanderson. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2015, 08:19:38 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 14, 2015, 08:18:42 PM
I knew you were going to suggest Brian Sanderson. :D

Brandon!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 14, 2015, 08:25:20 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 14, 2015, 02:27:23 PM
This year I intend to read at least one book.  :smarty:

I just downloaded

The Battle of Franklin: When the Devil had Full Possession of the Earth

Snow and Steel: The Battle of the Bulge, 1944-45

Nothing in kindle format on The Battle of Nashville. The Rock FTW. Thomas best Union general.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2015, 08:30:10 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2015, 08:25:20 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 14, 2015, 02:27:23 PM
This year I intend to read at least one book.  :smarty:

I just downloaded

The Battle of Franklin: When the Devil had Full Possession of the Earth

Great title, but unless the writing is fantastic, that just seems to be a rather boring battle to read about. Totally one sided.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 14, 2015, 08:39:42 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2015, 08:30:10 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2015, 08:25:20 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 14, 2015, 02:27:23 PM
This year I intend to read at least one book.  :smarty:

I just downloaded

The Battle of Franklin: When the Devil had Full Possession of the Earth

Great title, but unless the writing is fantastic, that just seems to be a rather boring battle to read about. Totally one sided.
Tim, Tim.... :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 14, 2015, 08:41:26 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2015, 08:19:38 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 14, 2015, 08:18:42 PM
I knew you were going to suggest Brian Sanderson. :D

Brandon!

Oh whatevs. :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2015, 08:43:33 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2015, 08:39:42 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2015, 08:30:10 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2015, 08:25:20 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 14, 2015, 02:27:23 PM
This year I intend to read at least one book.  :smarty:

I just downloaded

The Battle of Franklin: When the Devil had Full Possession of the Earth

Great title, but unless the writing is fantastic, that just seems to be a rather boring battle to read about. Totally one sided.
Tim, Tim.... :hmm:
Wouldn't want to read about Fredricksburg or Cold Harbor either.

There are so many more interesting battles from that war to read about.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 14, 2015, 08:47:59 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2015, 08:25:20 PM
The Rock FTW. Thomas best Union general.

Pound for pound, arguably the best operational guy they ever had.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 14, 2015, 08:49:22 PM
Check out the way slave state boy uses "they" for the Union.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 14, 2015, 08:51:07 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2015, 08:43:33 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2015, 08:39:42 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2015, 08:30:10 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2015, 08:25:20 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 14, 2015, 02:27:23 PM
This year I intend to read at least one book.  :smarty:

I just downloaded

The Battle of Franklin: When the Devil had Full Possession of the Earth

Great title, but unless the writing is fantastic, that just seems to be a rather boring battle to read about. Totally one sided.
Tim, Tim.... :hmm:
Wouldn't want to read about Fredricksburg or Cold Harbor either.

There are so many more interesting battles from that war to read about.

Monstrous
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 14, 2015, 08:51:55 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 14, 2015, 08:49:22 PM
Check out the way slave state boy uses "they" for the Union.  :ph34r:
:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 14, 2015, 09:27:26 PM
 :lol:   :blush:  :unsure:  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on January 15, 2015, 04:08:28 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2015, 08:17:04 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 14, 2015, 04:55:55 PM
I know this is pretty vague, but I'm looking for recommendations for a good sci-fi or fantasy book (or saga). I have read most of what could be considered "classic", so I'm actually looking for something a bit modern.
For fantasy try this

http://www.amazon.com/The-Way-Kings-Stormlight-Archive/dp/0765365278

You are not the first person that recommended me that series. I might go with that one.

Berkut around? He suggested me A Song of Fire and Ice waaaaaay back in EUOT so his opinion carries a lot of weight with me.  :worthy:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 15, 2015, 05:06:00 AM
I've had no luck with fantasy at all recently and have pretty much given up on the genre.

Lot sof decent sci-fi out there though. Ancillary Justice by Ann Leckie is probably the best I read last year.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ancillary-Justice-Imperial-Radch-Book-ebook/dp/B00BU1DG1S/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 15, 2015, 05:09:46 AM
Quote from: celedhring on January 15, 2015, 04:08:28 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2015, 08:17:04 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 14, 2015, 04:55:55 PM
I know this is pretty vague, but I'm looking for recommendations for a good sci-fi or fantasy book (or saga). I have read most of what could be considered "classic", so I'm actually looking for something a bit modern.
For fantasy try this

http://www.amazon.com/The-Way-Kings-Stormlight-Archive/dp/0765365278

You are not the first person that recommended me that series. I might go with that one.

Berkut around? He suggested me A Song of Fire and Ice waaaaaay back in EUOT so his opinion carries a lot of weight with me.  :worthy:

I read Mistborn by him. It wasn't totally shit but it was pretty bad. I didn't finish it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on January 15, 2015, 09:53:56 AM
Quote from: Gups on January 15, 2015, 05:06:00 AM
I've had no luck with fantasy at all recently and have pretty much given up on the genre.

Lot sof decent sci-fi out there though. Ancillary Justice by Ann Leckie is probably the best I read last year.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ancillary-Justice-Imperial-Radch-Book-ebook/dp/B00BU1DG1S/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

Seconded; probably the best Sci-Fi book I read last year as well.

As for Sanderson Stormlight Archive is a lot better than Mistborn. I read both available volumes back in November...(yes, Tim, I'm fairly sure you're the one who recommended it to me - it only took me a couple of years to follow up on your rec. though! :P)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 15, 2015, 09:56:17 AM
Gor
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 15, 2015, 10:02:15 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 15, 2015, 09:56:17 AM
Gor

This.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on January 27, 2015, 04:55:23 PM
Ancillary Justice was on backorder at my regular scifi/fantasy bookstore , so I got Way of Kings from Brandon Sanderson. I've gone through the first chapters and so far I find it pretty entertaining.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on January 27, 2015, 07:06:23 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 15, 2015, 05:06:00 AM
I've had no luck with fantasy at all recently and have pretty much given up on the genre.

What do you look for in fantasy? And what books have delivered it in the past?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Caliga on January 27, 2015, 07:26:02 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 15, 2015, 09:56:17 AM
Gor
Cabot!  Cabot!  Cabot!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: dps on January 27, 2015, 08:20:42 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 15, 2015, 10:02:15 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 15, 2015, 09:56:17 AM
Gor

This.


It's been ages since I read any books in the series, but if you can handle the incredibly high level of misogyny*, the early books are actually pretty good.  It runs out of steam eventually. 

*Even when I first started reading the books, I thought the misogyny was so bad that it decreased my enjoyment of the series.  If the 18 year old me of 1980 felt that way, the books depiction of/attitude toward women would probably kill some of the more sensitive types here.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on February 02, 2015, 12:01:22 AM
For Cause and Country: A Study of the Affair at Spring Hill & the Battle of Franklin
Eric A. Jacobson (Author) 630 pages

So far this is a detailed study of Hood's brilliant maneuvering leading up to Spring Hill, the lost opportunity at Spring Hill, then following with the debacle at Franklin. Reminds me of Pfanz's Gettysburg books, very detailed.

I am at the point where Schofield has slipped out of Columbia/Spring Hill and fortifying Franklin. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on February 02, 2015, 04:36:35 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 27, 2015, 07:06:23 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 15, 2015, 05:06:00 AM
I've had no luck with fantasy at all recently and have pretty much given up on the genre.

What do you look for in fantasy? And what books have delivered it in the past?

Same as with any other genre - competent writing, interesting characters, internally logic plot, some degree of originality.

Very few unfortunately. LOTR, the first three GRRMs, Abercrombie, some Gaiman. A few have been OK - Rothfuss, Hobb, Erikson enough for me to finish the book but not enough to want to read anymore. Some have been so bad that I've stopped after a hundred pages or so - Feist's first book is one of the worst things I've ever read. The thousands of positive Amazon reviews just show how little taste the majority of fantasy readers have.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 02, 2015, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: Gups on February 02, 2015, 04:36:35 AMThe thousands of positive Amazon reviews just show how little taste the majority of fantasy readers have.

Lol, fantasy snob
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 02, 2015, 09:43:47 AM
99% of the time, if a fantasy story starts with an orphan, about to become an adult and going on a journey of greatness, I throw the book into a corner.

Though I guess Fireblood tops the list for me. It not only has one orphan, but orphan twins separated at birth and descendants of a magical bloodline. On their journey they're joined by a not-Shaolin monk of about the same age who is also a bloody orphan. :bleeding:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on February 02, 2015, 10:02:27 AM
Just read Sanderson books people.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 02, 2015, 10:03:15 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 02, 2015, 10:02:27 AM
Just read Sanderson books people.

Thanks, Tim.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 02, 2015, 10:04:49 AM
I'm currently reading Star Wars books. I never got into the post-Return of the Jedi expanded universe (with the exception of the X-Wing series), so I start at the other end now with Fatal Alliances, a book that came out to accompany the MMO. It's not great, but it's mindless fluff for my commute and before going to sleep, and it hasn't made me cringe too much yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on February 02, 2015, 10:08:28 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 02, 2015, 10:03:15 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 02, 2015, 10:02:27 AM
Just read Sanderson books people.

Thanks, Tim.

When Tim giveth, we must taketh.

:mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on February 02, 2015, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 02, 2015, 09:43:47 AM
99% of the time, if a fantasy story starts with an orphan, about to become an adult and going on a journey of greatness, I throw the book into a corner.

Though I guess Fireblood tops the list for me. It not only has one orphan, but orphan twins separated at birth and descendants of a magical bloodline. On their journey they're joined by a not-Shaolin monk of about the same age who is also a bloody orphan. :bleeding:

Christ, I just had to look up what you were talking about; the blurb on Amazon is about as definitive a bit of generic "fantasese" as I've ever seen.

It did not encourage me to buy it.

------------------------

Gups, I'm sure I've said this before, but if that Erikson book was "Gardens of the Moon" you might want to give the second book a try. "Gardens" is probably the worst of the Malazan books; the second book, "Deadhouse Gates" is much better (as is the third, "Memories of Ice", which is probably my favourite book of the sequence.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on February 02, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
Quote from: Gups on February 02, 2015, 04:36:35 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 27, 2015, 07:06:23 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 15, 2015, 05:06:00 AM
I've had no luck with fantasy at all recently and have pretty much given up on the genre.

What do you look for in fantasy? And what books have delivered it in the past?

Same as with any other genre - competent writing, interesting characters, internally logic plot, some degree of originality.

Very few unfortunately. LOTR, the first three GRRMs, Abercrombie, some Gaiman. A few have been OK - Rothfuss, Hobb, Erikson enough for me to finish the book but not enough to want to read anymore. Some have been so bad that I've stopped after a hundred pages or so - Feist's first book is one of the worst things I've ever read. The thousands of positive Amazon reviews just show how little taste the majority of fantasy readers have.

Gups, have you tried the Robert Holdstock 'Mythago Wood' books?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on February 02, 2015, 11:16:06 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 02, 2015, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: Gups on February 02, 2015, 04:36:35 AMThe thousands of positive Amazon reviews just show how little taste the majority of fantasy readers have.

Lol, fantasy snob

I feel pretty much the same way.  I got maybe 1/3rd into Gardens of the Moon before giving up.  I did the same for the supposed greatness that is The Name of the Wind because of the cliche-happy crap embedded in it.

Abercrombie's stuff is significantly better, probably because it isn't so damn serious/humorless.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on February 02, 2015, 11:26:46 AM
Quote from: mongers on February 02, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
Quote from: Gups on February 02, 2015, 04:36:35 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 27, 2015, 07:06:23 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 15, 2015, 05:06:00 AM
I've had no luck with fantasy at all recently and have pretty much given up on the genre.

What do you look for in fantasy? And what books have delivered it in the past?

Same as with any other genre - competent writing, interesting characters, internally logic plot, some degree of originality.

Very few unfortunately. LOTR, the first three GRRMs, Abercrombie, some Gaiman. A few have been OK - Rothfuss, Hobb, Erikson enough for me to finish the book but not enough to want to read anymore. Some have been so bad that I've stopped after a hundred pages or so - Feist's first book is one of the worst things I've ever read. The thousands of positive Amazon reviews just show how little taste the majority of fantasy readers have.

Gups, have you tried the Robert Holdstock 'Mythago Wood' books?

I haven't - does sound quite good from the Amazon reviews. May give it a try, but TBH when I fell the need for some escapist shit I'm more likely to go sci-fi these days especially since so many semi-literary authors (Atwood, Mitchell, Harkaway) are doing it well these days.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on February 02, 2015, 11:32:12 AM
Quote from: Gups on February 02, 2015, 11:26:46 AM
Quote from: mongers on February 02, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
Quote from: Gups on February 02, 2015, 04:36:35 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 27, 2015, 07:06:23 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 15, 2015, 05:06:00 AM
I've had no luck with fantasy at all recently and have pretty much given up on the genre.

What do you look for in fantasy? And what books have delivered it in the past?

Same as with any other genre - competent writing, interesting characters, internally logic plot, some degree of originality.

Very few unfortunately. LOTR, the first three GRRMs, Abercrombie, some Gaiman. A few have been OK - Rothfuss, Hobb, Erikson enough for me to finish the book but not enough to want to read anymore. Some have been so bad that I've stopped after a hundred pages or so - Feist's first book is one of the worst things I've ever read. The thousands of positive Amazon reviews just show how little taste the majority of fantasy readers have.

Gups, have you tried the Robert Holdstock 'Mythago Wood' books?

I haven't - does sound quite good from the Amazon reviews. May give it a try, but TBH when I fell the need for some escapist shit I'm more likely to go sci-fi these days especially since so many semi-literary authors (Atwood, Mitchell, Harkaway) are doing it well these days.

Oh in that case, try some Brian Aldiss.  :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 03, 2015, 02:09:44 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 02, 2015, 10:02:27 AM
Just read Sanderson books people.

A guy best known for giving us Robert Jordan's sloppy seconds?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on February 03, 2015, 08:49:37 AM
Just do it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 03, 2015, 09:09:40 AM
No
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 03, 2015, 09:10:48 AM
Just finishing Magnus Magnusson's Story of Scotland.

Need to read some Walter Scott next.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on February 03, 2015, 09:16:42 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 03, 2015, 09:10:48 AM
Just finishing Magnus Magnusson's Story of Scotland.

Need to read some Walter Scott next.

This is a decent modern(ish) alternative.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Game-Kings-Lymond-Chronicles-ebook/dp/B002TJLEQ4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422972757&sr=8-1&keywords=game+of+kings


Am halfway through "What Hath God Wroght" by Daniel Howe, following an unusually astute rec by Tim. Have also enjoyed "Babylon" by Paul Kriwaczek, The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot Diaz and the Short Gentleman by Jon Canter so far this year.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on February 03, 2015, 09:25:47 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 03, 2015, 09:09:40 AM
No

Well not you obviously.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on February 03, 2015, 12:07:04 PM
Harper Lee to publish a sequel of To Kill a Mockingbird  :w00t:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/feb/03/harper-lee-new-novel-to-kill-a-mockingbird
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 03, 2015, 05:32:24 PM
Quote from: celedhring on February 03, 2015, 12:07:04 PM
Harper Lee to publish a sequel of To Kill a Mockingbird  :w00t:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/feb/03/harper-lee-new-novel-to-kill-a-mockingbird
Woah! Can't wait! :w00t:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 03, 2015, 11:27:57 PM
Anyone got good recommendations on recent Middle Eastern history?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 04, 2015, 08:07:18 PM
Quote from: Gups on February 03, 2015, 09:16:42 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 03, 2015, 09:10:48 AM
Just finishing Magnus Magnusson's Story of Scotland.

Need to read some Walter Scott next.

This is a decent modern(ish) alternative.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Game-Kings-Lymond-Chronicles-ebook/dp/B002TJLEQ4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422972757&sr=8-1&keywords=game+of+kings
Thanks, I'll get these.

The Magnusson book is excellent. It's really interesting the way Scotland's history which is as treacherous and two-headed as any nations has been moulded - largely into sentimental pap. I suppose it happens with all countries but it's kind of really extraordinary here because it seemed to happen so contemporaneously (how the Jacobites went from oppressors of Presbyterianism and the Covenant to a symbol of Romantic national identity for example) and because of the current debates - how apt that the vote for Independence was the 45.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on February 04, 2015, 08:50:27 PM
Tainted Goddesses: Female Film Stars of the Third Reich by Cinzia Romani
Minima Moralia: Reflections From Damaged Life by Theodor Adorno
Sabbatai Zevi: The Mystical Messiah by Gershom Scholem
The Beautiful and the Damned: A Portrait of the New India by Siddhartha Deb
Wake the Town and Tell the People: Dancehall Culture in Jamaica by Norman Stolzoff
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 09, 2015, 10:11:06 PM
I finished The Song of Roland.  I was surprised how short it is.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on February 09, 2015, 10:48:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 09, 2015, 10:11:06 PM
I finished The Song of Roland.  I was surprised how short it is.

What was the b-side like?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 10, 2015, 11:08:37 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 09, 2015, 10:11:06 PM
I finished The Song of Roland.  I was surprised how short it is.

Synthesizers. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on February 10, 2015, 11:22:46 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 10, 2015, 11:08:37 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 09, 2015, 10:11:06 PM
I finished The Song of Roland.  I was surprised how short it is.

Synthesizers. :rolleyes:

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on February 10, 2015, 02:27:09 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 10, 2015, 11:22:46 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 10, 2015, 11:08:37 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 09, 2015, 10:11:06 PM
I finished The Song of Roland.  I was surprised how short it is.

Synthesizers. :rolleyes:

:lol:

Yeah a good one.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 10, 2015, 09:37:56 PM
Red Storm Rising. Pootie poot put me in the mood.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on February 11, 2015, 02:01:53 PM
I've read Killing Lincoln, Killing Kennedy and Killing Jesus. All good books and written from the historical perspective, as in KJ it wasn't about religion so much as it was the history of it. Next will be Killing Patton which is another best seller.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on February 11, 2015, 02:04:13 PM
Quote from: KRonn on February 11, 2015, 02:01:53 PM
I've read Killing Lincoln, Killing Kennedy and Killing Jesus. All good books and written from the historical perspective, as in KJ it wasn't about religion so much as it was the history of it. Next will be Killing Patton which is another best seller.

Should I be worried Bill O'Reilly is so interested in how one kills prominent people?

I saw the Killing Patton book and thought that was odd.  Patton died in a car accident.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on February 11, 2015, 02:07:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 11, 2015, 02:04:13 PM
Quote from: KRonn on February 11, 2015, 02:01:53 PM
I've read Killing Lincoln, Killing Kennedy and Killing Jesus. All good books and written from the historical perspective, as in KJ it wasn't about religion so much as it was the history of it. Next will be Killing Patton which is another best seller.

Should I be worried Bill O'Reilly is so interested in how one kills prominent people?

I saw the Killing Patton book and thought that was odd.  Patton died in a car accident.

Perhaps it will be about wearing one's seat belt.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on February 11, 2015, 02:32:12 PM
Quote from: KRonn on February 11, 2015, 02:01:53 PM
I've read Killing Lincoln, Killing Kennedy and Killing Jesus. All good books and written from the historical perspective, as in KJ it wasn't about religion so much as it was the history of it. Next will be Killing Patton which is another best seller.

:wacko:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on February 11, 2015, 02:36:23 PM
There's some good history in these books, and from what I've heard about Patton there are some ideas/speculation on how Patton was actually killed, part of the back story of the Soviet-Western Allied relationships at that point after the war.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on February 11, 2015, 02:37:38 PM
No, there really isn't good history in those books.  They have been pretty well savaged by actual historians.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on February 11, 2015, 02:43:02 PM
I've found interesting stuff, like the end of the Civil War and the lead up to Lincoln's assassination. The people and groups that Booth was part of. Same with Kennedy, some behind the scenes stuff and a lot about Oswald's background and such. But these books aren't heavy on the overall history so I may have said that wrong. More like good but limited historical info pertinent to the killers and their target.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 18, 2015, 03:20:55 PM
I have now read up to Far Side of the World.  The only thing that book has in common with the movie is that the movie has characters named Aubrey and Maturin and they are on a ship called Surprise.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 03:44:12 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 18, 2015, 03:20:55 PM
I have now read up to Far Side of the World.  The only thing that book has in common with the movie is that the movie has characters named Aubrey and Maturin and they are on a ship called Surprise.

The movie took elements, plot lines, and lines of dialog from several of the Aubrey/Maturin books, not just Far Side of the World.

They're still one of my all-time favourite book series, and the movie is still a favourite of mine, but they are to be enjoyed on their own merits, and not in comparison to each other.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 18, 2015, 03:47:17 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 03:44:12 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 18, 2015, 03:20:55 PM
I have now read up to Far Side of the World.  The only thing that book has in common with the movie is that the movie has characters named Aubrey and Maturin and they are on a ship called Surprise.

The movie took elements, plot lines, and lines of dialog from several of the Aubrey/Maturin books, not just Far Side of the World.



Ok, its just too bad they didn't take the plot lines and dialog from that particular book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 18, 2015, 06:26:36 PM
They really should have shot Master and Commander, leaving out the Gibraltar part.  Not a bad scene or slow moment in Master and Commander.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 18, 2015, 06:43:59 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 18, 2015, 06:26:36 PM
They really should have shot Master and Commander, leaving out the Gibraltar part.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsatblog.testive.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F12%2Fstudyingcat.jpg&hash=504be604e50cac429c2558df4eaf4068360982bd)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 18, 2015, 06:47:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 18, 2015, 06:26:36 PM
They really should have shot Master and Commander, leaving out the Gibraltar part.  Not a bad scene or slow moment in Master and Commander.

I agree. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 18, 2015, 06:48:36 PM
I'm thinking of a major reading campaign.  A biography of every US President (well up until say Eisenhower, I don't want to get to modern),  Anyone know a good book on Washington?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 18, 2015, 10:41:57 PM
This blog may help:
http://bestpresidentialbios.com/
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 11:25:50 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 18, 2015, 06:26:36 PM
They really should have shot Master and Commander, leaving out the Gibraltar part.  Not a bad scene or slow moment in Master and Commander.

Nah.  Too many different ship battles in Master and Commander.  Too hard to keep track of in a 2 hour movie.

Personally, I think Desolation Island would make a good movie - chased by a much larger ship, then once that battle is over a desperate struggle for survival until an enemy vessel also stationed at Desolation Island is their only hope for survival...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 11:28:47 PM
On a completely related note, the missus and I are going to another Regency Ball in a couple weeks.  This time I've splurged and am having a full blown RN captain's uniform costume made for me.  It looks fucking fantastic, and I'll post pics in TBR when it's done.   :cool:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on February 19, 2015, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 11:28:47 PM
On a completely related note, the missus and I are going to another Regency Ball in a couple weeks.  This time I've splurged and am having a full blown RN captain's uniform costume made for me.  It looks fucking fantastic, and I'll post pics in TBR when it's done.   :cool:

That is awesome.  :) I'm interested in hearing the details - I love costume-making.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on February 19, 2015, 09:10:05 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 11:28:47 PM
On a completely related note, the missus and I are going to another Regency Ball in a couple weeks.  This time I've splurged and am having a full blown RN captain's uniform costume made for me.  It looks fucking fantastic, and I'll post pics in TBR when it's done.   :cool:

Viper is outraged you are wearing the uniform of the hated colonial power that oppressed Canada so.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 19, 2015, 09:10:48 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 11:25:50 PM
Nah.  Too many different ship battles in Master and Commander.  Too hard to keep track of in a 2 hour movie.

There's two involving the Sophie: the Algerines and the Cacafuego.  Plus a bunch of prize chases.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on February 19, 2015, 09:11:06 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 11, 2015, 02:37:38 PM
No, there really isn't good history in those books.  They have been pretty well savaged by actual historians.

And here I was hoping Bill O'Reilly was using his powers for good instead of evil.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 19, 2015, 10:51:01 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 19, 2015, 09:10:48 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 11:25:50 PM
Nah.  Too many different ship battles in Master and Commander.  Too hard to keep track of in a 2 hour movie.

There's two involving the Sophie: the Algerines and the Cacafuego.  Plus a bunch of prize chases.

The battle with the Cacafuego is my favourite battle so far and was a significant defining moment in Aubrey's career.  It would have been perfect for the purpose of introducing the Movie audience to the books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on February 19, 2015, 02:10:11 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 11:28:47 PM
On a completely related note, the missus and I are going to another Regency Ball in a couple weeks.  This time I've splurged and am having a full blown RN captain's uniform costume made for me.  It looks fucking fantastic, and I'll post pics in TBR when it's done.   :cool:
I miss having access to TBR. :(  Have you seen or read Austenland?  I've been moderately intrigued by the concept of watching it at some point, if only for Keri Russell. :wub:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on February 19, 2015, 03:49:34 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 19, 2015, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 11:28:47 PM
On a completely related note, the missus and I are going to another Regency Ball in a couple weeks.  This time I've splurged and am having a full blown RN captain's uniform costume made for me.  It looks fucking fantastic, and I'll post pics in TBR when it's done.   :cool:

That is awesome.  :) I'm interested in hearing the details - I love costume-making.

Not a ton of details to tell really, though I'll post pics.  We got the name of this lady who is making the uniform from friends (who are the ones putting on the event).  I had rented something similar once before, but at $100 it wasn't cheap, it wasn't 100% accurate, and it was 2-3 sizes too big.

So she runs a side business of making medeival, historical or fantasy costumes.  We went over a bunch of patterns to try and pick one that looked right (some parts had to be made up by hand though), picked some fabric, and she's almost done making it.

At $350, on the one hand it's hardly the smartest thing I've done with my money, but honestly I don't know how she makes any money doing this.  Just getting a regular handmade suit would cost more, never mind a historical recreation (and the ones I've seen online go for 5x that price).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on February 19, 2015, 03:54:43 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 19, 2015, 03:49:34 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 19, 2015, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 11:28:47 PM
On a completely related note, the missus and I are going to another Regency Ball in a couple weeks.  This time I've splurged and am having a full blown RN captain's uniform costume made for me.  It looks fucking fantastic, and I'll post pics in TBR when it's done.   :cool:

That is awesome.  :) I'm interested in hearing the details - I love costume-making.

Not a ton of details to tell really, though I'll post pics.  We got the name of this lady who is making the uniform from friends (who are the ones putting on the event).  I had rented something similar once before, but at $100 it wasn't cheap, it wasn't 100% accurate, and it was 2-3 sizes too big.

So she runs a side business of making medeival, historical or fantasy costumes.  We went over a bunch of patterns to try and pick one that looked right (some parts had to be made up by hand though), picked some fabric, and she's almost done making it.

At $350, on the one hand it's hardly the smartest thing I've done with my money, but honestly I don't know how she makes any money doing this.  Just getting a regular handmade suit would cost more, never mind a historical recreation (and the ones I've seen online go for 5x that price).

That does sound insanely cheap.
Title: save e-
Post by: mongers on February 19, 2015, 03:56:22 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 19, 2015, 03:49:34 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 19, 2015, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 11:28:47 PM
On a completely related note, the missus and I are going to another Regency Ball in a couple weeks.  This time I've splurged and am having a full blown RN captain's uniform costume made for me.  It looks fucking fantastic, and I'll post pics in TBR when it's done.   :cool:

That is awesome.  :) I'm interested in hearing the details - I love costume-making.

Not a ton of details to tell really, though I'll post pics.  We got the name of this lady who is making the uniform from friends (who are the ones putting on the event).  I had rented something similar once before, but at $100 it wasn't cheap, it wasn't 100% accurate, and it was 2-3 sizes too big.

So she runs a side business of making medeival, historical or fantasy costumes.  We went over a bunch of patterns to try and pick one that looked right (some parts had to be made up by hand though), picked some fabric, and she's almost done making it.

At $350, on the one hand it's hardly the smartest thing I've done with my money, but honestly I don't know how she makes any money doing this.  Just getting a regular handmade suit would cost more, never mind a historical recreation (and the ones I've seen online go for 5x that price).

That seems pretty darn reasonable for a bespoke item, presumably made of good cloth. Just think of all the confusion it'll cause future generations as they try to work out when and how great grandfather BB served in the Royal Navy, maybe he was some super sluth or perhaps a secret agent formerly in RN Reserve?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on February 19, 2015, 03:57:31 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on February 19, 2015, 02:10:11 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 11:28:47 PM
On a completely related note, the missus and I are going to another Regency Ball in a couple weeks.  This time I've splurged and am having a full blown RN captain's uniform costume made for me.  It looks fucking fantastic, and I'll post pics in TBR when it's done.   :cool:
I miss having access to TBR. :(  Have you seen or read Austenland?  I've been moderately intrigued by the concept of watching it at some point, if only for Keri Russell. :wub:

Nope.

But I have no particular love or affection for Jane Austen.  I haven't read any of her books.  In advance of the first ball I did see the mid 90s Colin Firth P&P miniseries and enjoyed it well enough, but not enough to start wanting to recreate it.

When my wife first wanted to go to this ball, I was a little unenthused - until I realized I could just as easily think of it as a Patrick O'Brien ball.   :cool:  They are writing about the exact same time period, and while O'Brien does tend to focus on Aubrey's life at sea, he does include some very lengthy passages (and nearly the entirety of the second book, Post Captain) to his life on land, which certainly did include going to dinner parties and balls.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 19, 2015, 03:59:29 PM
If you haven't already watched it, I thought the Pride and Prejudice movie was quite good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on February 19, 2015, 04:06:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 19, 2015, 10:51:01 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 19, 2015, 09:10:48 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 11:25:50 PM
Nah.  Too many different ship battles in Master and Commander.  Too hard to keep track of in a 2 hour movie.

There's two involving the Sophie: the Algerines and the Cacafuego.  Plus a bunch of prize chases.

The battle with the Cacafuego is my favourite battle so far and was a significant defining moment in Aubrey's career.  It would have been perfect for the purpose of introducing the Movie audience to the books.

But the chase of the Acheron was the unifying plot of the movie.  It's what held the whole thing together, even though the Acheron herself only shows up at the start and end of the picture.  I still think the problem with just making a movie out of Master and Commander (the book) is that it lacks that overall plot - it's just a bunch of adventures of a new captain in the Med.

The book I think would have made for an interesting movie by itself would be Desolation Island though.  It's a single mission - transporting prisoners to Australia and to take care of the "Captain Bligh problem".  They fight through plague, then a desperate struggle with the unspellable Dutch ship, then a desperate struggle for survival in the Antarctic Ocean.  Finally they seek refuge at Desolation Island, only to find an American vessel, and the two countries are at the brink of war.

Only trouble I see is it lacks a climactic battle sequence.  Not sure if you can amp up the spy tension with the Americans enough for a climax, or if you have to insert some kind of action sequence into the end.
Title: save e-
Post by: mongers on February 19, 2015, 04:09:54 PM
Still haven't decide which is the book I read this year.  :smarty:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 19, 2015, 04:14:08 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 19, 2015, 04:06:25 PM
The book I think would have made for an interesting movie by itself would be Desolation Island though.  It's a single mission - transporting prisoners to Australia and to take care of the "Captain Bligh problem".  They fight through plague, then a desperate struggle with the unspellable Dutch ship, then a desperate struggle for survival in the Antarctic Ocean.  Finally they seek refuge at Desolation Island, only to find an American vessel, and the two countries are at the brink of war.

So your prefer a bunch of adventures of an old and established captain.  :P

Master and Commander has great dialogue scenes, great action scenes, a great story of a friendship forming, and the evolution of Aubrey from a punk to a man, plus the Aubrey/Harte backstory of jealousy and revenge.

Being cheered by the Amelia as they leave Minorca would make a *perfect* ending.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 19, 2015, 06:22:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 19, 2015, 04:06:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 19, 2015, 10:51:01 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 19, 2015, 09:10:48 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 18, 2015, 11:25:50 PM
Nah.  Too many different ship battles in Master and Commander.  Too hard to keep track of in a 2 hour movie.

There's two involving the Sophie: the Algerines and the Cacafuego.  Plus a bunch of prize chases.

The battle with the Cacafuego is my favourite battle so far and was a significant defining moment in Aubrey's career.  It would have been perfect for the purpose of introducing the Movie audience to the books.

But the chase of the Acheron was the unifying plot of the movie.  It's what held the whole thing together, even though the Acheron herself only shows up at the start and end of the picture.  I still think the problem with just making a movie out of Master and Commander (the book) is that it lacks that overall plot - it's just a bunch of adventures of a new captain in the Med.

The book I think would have made for an interesting movie by itself would be Desolation Island though.  It's a single mission - transporting prisoners to Australia and to take care of the "Captain Bligh problem".  They fight through plague, then a desperate struggle with the unspellable Dutch ship, then a desperate struggle for survival in the Antarctic Ocean.  Finally they seek refuge at Desolation Island, only to find an American vessel, and the two countries are at the brink of war.

Only trouble I see is it lacks a climactic battle sequence.  Not sure if you can amp up the spy tension with the Americans enough for a climax, or if you have to insert some kind of action sequence into the end.

I don't know BB, if I had read Desolation Island without the benefit of Master and Commander I would not likely have gone any further.  The only thing that gets the reader through the books with little action is that the characters are now well known and we can put up with some slower arcs now and then.  And Far Side of the World is the epitome of that.  Nothing happens until the last chapter.  It is just an homage to the friendship between Aubrey and Maturin.  Which is fine, because by the time the reader reaches this stage in the series we are committed to the characters.  But we came to like them because of their exploits in the early books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 20, 2015, 05:40:38 AM
I recently came into possession of Tyskland går sista ronden, by Swedish journalist Gunnar Th:son Pihl who was thrown out of Germany in 1943. Published in Sweden in 1943 and in the US in 1944 (as Germany: The Last Phase) it is really interesting to read what people knew and thought in 1943. On the Jews for instance Pihl estimates a total number of "eliminated" (dead or practically dead deported to hellish conditions) Jews of 4.3 million, with an estimated 1.3 million still on the to-do list.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on February 20, 2015, 08:16:44 AM
Master and Commander is a very fine movie, imho. I agree that Far Side of the World was chosen over the actual Master and Commander book because it had a more cohesive plot, that lead up towards a climatic battle. It's a better standalone story. Master and Commander would've been great if they were sure they would get to make more movies after it.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on February 20, 2015, 08:26:03 AM
Broke down and both some books without first reducing my to-read stack  :Embarrass:

Kershaw - It never snows in September
Seneca - Letters from a Stoic
De Botton - The art of travel (bought solely because of glowing reviews by Jan Morris and Colin Thubron on the cover  :blush:)
Sebald - Austerlitz
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 20, 2015, 11:29:45 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 20, 2015, 08:16:44 AM
Master and Commander is a very fine movie, imho. I agree that Far Side of the World was chosen over the actual Master and Commander book because it had a more cohesive plot, that lead up towards a climatic battle. It's a better standalone story. Master and Commander would've been great if they were sure they would get to make more movies after it.

The plot of the movie Far Side of the World and the plot in the book have almost nothing in common except for the fact that the Aubrey is supposed intercept an enemy ship heading for the Pacific.  The enemy is different, the events which occur during the voyage (including the reason the enemy ship is not intercepted in the Atlantic) are completely different and there are no battles at all in the book.  Unless one considers the interaction with the raft of radical Polynesian feminists  :D

Rather than trying to piece together a story from parts of other stories there was an already existing cohesive plot and much more compelling introduction to the characters (including the need to go after enemy shipping) in Master and Commander
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2015, 11:45:13 AM
Master and Commander was passable on first viewing.  Doesn't hold up on further viewing.

Very much enjoying "Ike" right now.  Prose is good, detail is good.  Some padding, at times lacks flow, but overall good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 20, 2015, 11:48:21 AM
Golf. :zzz
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on February 20, 2015, 11:51:02 AM
Anyway, I'm struggling to finish "Way of Kings" by Sanderson. The world is interesting, but it's way too long and drawn out. It feels like 1000 pages of foreshadowing and characters doubting themselves.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on February 20, 2015, 12:09:18 PM
It's Sanderson's schtick. I yell "grow a spine" a lot when reading his books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 20, 2015, 12:14:58 PM
Quote from: celedhring on February 20, 2015, 11:51:02 AM
Anyway, I'm struggling to finish "Way of Kings" by Sanderson. The world is interesting, but it's way too long and drawn out. It feels like 1000 pages of foreshadowing and characters doubting themselves.
The end of his books are an avalanche of action.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 20, 2015, 12:16:31 PM
Quote from: celedhring on February 20, 2015, 11:51:02 AM
Anyway, I'm struggling to finish "Way of Kings" by Sanderson. The world is interesting, but it's way too long and drawn out. It feels like 1000 pages of foreshadowing and characters doubting themselves.

I enjoyed it from cover to cover.  Couldn't put it down actually. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on February 20, 2015, 12:20:05 PM
The story and the world feel interesting enough. If things pick up in these last 200 pages, I'm decidedly checking out the following book in the saga. It's just that so far it feels like a prelude, hints that something "big" is going to happen, but nothing really big happens.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on February 20, 2015, 12:28:31 PM
Finished What God Hath Wrought USA 1815-1848. Very impressed with the quality of the writing and the breath of scope although his dislike of Jackson and Polk and love of JQA shines through a bit too much.

Now reading Half of a Yellow Sun, novel set during the Biafra conflict. Excellent so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 20, 2015, 12:32:41 PM
Quote from: Gups on February 20, 2015, 12:28:31 PM

Now reading Half of a Yellow Sun, novel set during the Biafra conflict. Excellent so far.

Any Swedish flying mercenaries in it?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 20, 2015, 12:57:41 PM
Quote from: celedhring on February 20, 2015, 12:20:05 PM
The story and the world feel interesting enough. If things pick up in these last 200 pages, I'm decidedly checking out the following book in the saga. It's just that so far it feels like a prelude, hints that something "big" is going to happen, but nothing really big happens.

I agree, there is a lot of build up.  But I was fascinated by the world he created and that kept my interest.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pedrito on February 21, 2015, 04:13:17 AM
Robert McFarlane, The Old Ways. A Journey on Foot

Extremely enjoyable book about walking old paths. Mongers came to my mind several times while reading this.

L.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on February 21, 2015, 08:19:39 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on February 21, 2015, 04:13:17 AM
Robert McFarlane, The Old Ways. A Journey on Foot

Extremely enjoyable book about walking old paths. Mongers came to my mind several times while reading this.

L.

:yes:
One of the best books I read last year.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on February 26, 2015, 04:30:26 PM
I recently read Measuring The World, which was an absolute delight:


http://www.amazon.ca/Measuring-World-Novel-Daniel-Kehlmann/dp/0307277399/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424985748&sr=8-1&keywords=measuring+the+world
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on February 26, 2015, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on February 21, 2015, 04:13:17 AM
Robert McFarlane, The Old Ways. A Journey on Foot

Extremely enjoyable book about walking old paths. Mongers came to my mind several times while reading this.

L.

:)

Yeah, that's on my reading list, but I'm actively avoiding it as I'm working on some routes at the moment.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on February 26, 2015, 04:48:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 18, 2015, 06:48:36 PM
I'm thinking of a major reading campaign.  A biography of every US President (well up until say Eisenhower, I don't want to get to modern),  Anyone know a good book on Washington?

I really liked Ron Chernow's Washington: A Life.  I listened to it as an audiobook, but it was still very good. 

Other Presidential biographies I have read and enjoyed, but have no idea how others feel about them:

David McCullough's John Adams and Truman.
Geoffery Perret's Eishenhower
Books one and two of Edmund Morris' 3 book biography of Theodore Roosevelt.  I want to read the last one, it is about the short time between leaving the White House and his death.

I have Lynne Cheney's James Madison biography on a wishlist somewhere.

Biographies of non-Presidential Founding Fathers that I enjoyed:

Ron Chernow's Alexander Hamilton
Walter Isaacson's Benjamin Franklin: An American Life
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on February 26, 2015, 04:50:42 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 18, 2015, 10:41:57 PM
This blog may help:
http://bestpresidentialbios.com/

Nice, bookmarked.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 01, 2015, 05:31:09 PM
I'm on a Civil War kick.

Currently reading God's Fury, England's Fire (which is a wonderful title, taken from a contemporary pamphlet), only a couple of chapters in but at least part of the argument seems to be that it was a Reformation conflict. Interesting so far. The author has an eye for illuminating images and details I think - like the Covenanters having a funereal march with a Bible to symbolise the death of the Word of God that they saw in the prayer book.

But it may also, possibly, be the end of that school of interpretation. My understanding is that this historiography of the Civil War that saw it as 1) not fundamentally caused by long-term causes but rather specific problems of the 1630s-40s; and 2) seriously motivated by religion is on its way out just as it replaced the English Revolution. Similarly, from what I understand, interpretations of Cromwell are changing and slightly downgrading the importance of his religion.

But I'm also reading Antonia Fraser's Cromwell, Our Chief of Men. Again only a couple of chapters in but so far so good. I think she is excellent on the personal spirituality of 'Puritanism'. I'm really interested that it seems like she'll suggest a certain indecision in Cromwell which I like. It's always interested me that when Cromwell was about to take a momentous decision (and often under most attack) that he seems to disappear. As often happens when I read about Cromwell it reminds me of de Gaulle.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 01, 2015, 05:40:56 PM
 :hmm:  That doesn't sound like the Civil War.   :homestar:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 01, 2015, 05:59:41 PM
Cromwall Jackson?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 01, 2015, 07:17:13 PM
Mew m'lord.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 01, 2015, 09:17:56 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 01, 2015, 05:31:09 PM
I'm on a Civil War kick.

Currently reading God's Fury, England's Fire (which is a wonderful title, taken from a contemporary pamphlet), only a couple of chapters in but at least part of the argument seems to be that it was a Reformation conflict. Interesting so far. The author has an eye for illuminating images and details I think - like the Covenanters having a funereal march with a Bible to symbolise the death of the Word of God that they saw in the prayer book.


:o
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.comicvine.com%2Fuploads%2Foriginal%2F1%2F19836%2F448961-halowars_detail.jpg&hash=068734240996d808627a54a2f2f83256bce15fef)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on March 01, 2015, 09:25:12 PM
Quote from: sbr on February 26, 2015, 04:48:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 18, 2015, 06:48:36 PM
I'm thinking of a major reading campaign.  A biography of every US President (well up until say Eisenhower, I don't want to get to modern),  Anyone know a good book on Washington?

I really liked Ron Chernow's Washington: A Life.  I listened to it as an audiobook, but it was still very good. 

Other Presidential biographies I have read and enjoyed, but have no idea how others feel about them:

David McCullough's John Adams and Truman.
Geoffery Perret's Eishenhower
Books one and two of Edmund Morris' 3 book biography of Theodore Roosevelt.  I want to read the last one, it is about the short time between leaving the White House and his death.

I have Lynne Cheney's James Madison biography on a wishlist somewhere.

Biographies of non-Presidential Founding Fathers that I enjoyed:

Ron Chernow's Alexander Hamilton
Walter Isaacson's Benjamin Franklin: An American Life
Skip Cheney's Madison; read Gutzman's instead. He's a real scholar. However, his review of her biography of Madison yielded up a major plaudit for her book: her focus on Madison's health, which is well-documented but poorly understood.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on April 17, 2015, 05:45:43 PM
Bought a pile of books recently: (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2Fbooks_zpssrl1xtir.jpg&hash=a1116d45ec2400a36cb8e4c89de05e02c3b944d4) (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/Habbaku/media/books_zpssrl1xtir.jpg.html)

What has everyone else been reading?  I'm currently about to finish Frances Gies' "The Knight in History", which includes some rather ribald troubadour poetry, among other things.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 17, 2015, 05:57:57 PM
Enjoyed Jonathan Strange a lot. Looking forward to the BBC adaptation this year, which looks pretty well-cast :w00t:

I'm reading The Republic: The Fight for Irish Independence 1918-23. Partly because I've always had a slightly odd experience of the Irish civil war in that I know what side my grandfather was on, but I still don't really understand what it was about beyond the most shallow pro-treaty/anti-treaty dichotomy. Got a few more Irish history books to go afterwards too.

Also Colm Toibin - who is an appropriate novelist to read with that. But it was actually accidental. I read the Master years ago and recently read one of his earlier novels. It was incredible. It was one of those books which is very spare and plain and unadorned. The entire tone and style seem natural. Then, two-thirds in, it clicks and you realise how densely structured it is. He's a standing testament to the idea that you need to write emotionally to pack an emotional punch.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on April 17, 2015, 06:10:00 PM
I have three books on the go right now.  Strategy by Lawrence Freedman; the Thirteen Gun Salute by O'Brian and The Long Shadow
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 18, 2015, 01:21:55 AM
Just finished Frankenstein (1818 text).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on April 18, 2015, 04:22:13 AM
Reading four books at the moment:

Dante - Paradiso: It's much more difficult than the previous two, but worth it so far.
Patrick Leigh Fermor - Roumeli: Wanderings in Northern Greece, written like only Fermor can.
Orhan Pamuk - My Name is Red: Whodunnit set in 16th century Istanbul, wonderfully written with lengthy digressions on illuminated texts, religion and relationships. Not an easy book, but very worthwhile.
Peter Humfrey: Painting in Renaissance Venice: Just started, what the title says basically.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ideologue on April 18, 2015, 03:04:52 PM
I read Gone Girl because I liked Gillian Flynn's script for the movie.  I loved it, since it's basically the same thing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 23, 2015, 08:49:44 AM
Quote from: Maladict on April 18, 2015, 04:22:13 AM

Orhan Pamuk - My Name is Red: Whodunnit set in 16th century Istanbul, wonderfully written with lengthy digressions on illuminated texts, religion and relationships. Not an easy book, but very worthwhile.


I really, really enjoyed this one. Then, I tried some of his others - found them not the same.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 23, 2015, 08:54:31 AM
I'm continuing with the Mayan theme by reading an annotated translation of the Popol Vuh - the Quiche Maya creation myth. Just started the introduction.

Mayan mythology is wacky even by world mythology standards.  ;)

It's as if Christianty revolved around a sacred volleyball court where, between games, they beheaded people.  :lol:

A woman being raped by a rotting skull also features prominently. Eeeww.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on April 23, 2015, 10:57:56 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 23, 2015, 08:49:44 AM
Quote from: Maladict on April 18, 2015, 04:22:13 AM

Orhan Pamuk - My Name is Red: Whodunnit set in 16th century Istanbul, wonderfully written with lengthy digressions on illuminated texts, religion and relationships. Not an easy book, but very worthwhile.


I really, really enjoyed this one. Then, I tried some of his others - found them not the same.

I thought his memoirs on Istanbul were pretty decent. Haven't read anything else yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 23, 2015, 01:32:29 PM
Finished The History and Culture of Japanese Food, by Ishige. It was OK as an introduction to the subject.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on May 08, 2015, 03:22:50 AM
Just finished "My Life With Spirits" by Lon Milo Duquette. A truly awesome book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 14, 2015, 11:00:14 AM
I'm reading The Falklands War - The Full Story, by The Sunday Times Insight Team. Well-written page-turner, and very nice for someone like me who remembers the war but never really read anything about it since. The book having been written in 1982 gives it an immediacy that is nice.

One thing that I don't really understand about the war. Did the Argentinians not expect the UK to strike back? If so how the hell did the UK put itself in a position where it wasn't absolutely 110% fucking obvious to everyone that they would defend their territory and inhabitants? Or did the Argentinians expect the UK to strike back and that they would defeat the British in serious combat? Almost as weird.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 14, 2015, 11:14:42 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 14, 2015, 11:00:14 AM
I'm reading The Falklands War - The Full Story, by The Sunday Times Insight Team. Well-written page-turner, and very nice for someone like me who remembers the war but never really read anything about it since. The book having been written in 1982 gives it an immediacy that is nice.

One thing that I don't really understand about the war. Did the Argentinians not expect the UK to strike back? If so how the hell did the UK put itself in a position where it wasn't absolutely 110% fucking obvious to everyone that they would defend their territory and inhabitants? Or did the Argentinians expect the UK to strike back and that they would defeat the British in serious combat? Almost as weird.

They expected the UK to do absolutely nothing.

Remember the time - 1982.  UK (and much of the world) was in recession, with high unemployment.  As well, remember that for the last 25 years the UK had been in near-constant withdrawl from its Empire.  One country after another declared independence.  The UK did nothing to stop it's colonies from even declaring independence unilaterally.  Finally, it was not clear whether the UK had the military means to be able to intervene in the faraway Falkland Islands.

That being said of course it was still a very risky move by the Argies - there expectation that the UK would do nothing was reasonable, but of course if they got it wrong it could (and did) blow up spectacularly in their faces.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 14, 2015, 11:29:53 AM
I guess. It's just hard to picture the Commons calling for anything less than force after such an attack. Blatant aggression against a territory whose inhabitants (overwhelmingly white inhabitants at that, no colonial guilt aspect) strongly wished to remain British.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 14, 2015, 11:34:58 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 14, 2015, 11:29:53 AM
I guess. It's just hard to picture the Commons calling for anything less than force after such an attack. Blatant aggression against a territory whose inhabitants (overwhelmingly white inhabitants at that, no colonial guilt aspect) strongly wished to remain British.

Iirc there was wide spread opinion that the Brits lacked the ability to militarily retake the islands and so at the time the risk seemed low.  Also consider it from the Junta's position.  It was worthwhile making a nationalistic gesture to distract the Argentine public from the economic woes of the country.  Ironically there is some suggestion that is the same reason the Thatcher government  went to war.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 14, 2015, 11:47:30 AM
It wasn't war. Congress hadn't declared it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 14, 2015, 11:49:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 14, 2015, 11:47:30 AM
It wasn't war. Congress hadn't declared it.

And neither had either of the UK or Argentines iirc. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 14, 2015, 11:51:41 AM
A good thing about war is that you don't have to declare it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 14, 2015, 01:03:34 PM
They should have nuked Buenos Aires.

Do you want to know more?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 14, 2015, 02:02:58 PM
Haig. :wub:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 17, 2015, 12:38:56 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 14, 2015, 11:00:14 AM
I'm reading The Falklands War - The Full Story, by The Sunday Times Insight Team. Well-written page-turner, and very nice for someone like me who remembers the war but never really read anything about it since. The book having been written in 1982 gives it an immediacy that is nice.

One thing that I don't really understand about the war. Did the Argentinians not expect the UK to strike back? If so how the hell did the UK put itself in a position where it wasn't absolutely 110% fucking obvious to everyone that they would defend their territory and inhabitants? Or did the Argentinians expect the UK to strike back and that they would defeat the British in serious combat? Almost as weird.

Ah yes, The Empire Strikes Back.

Foolish Argies
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 19, 2015, 10:44:36 AM
I read 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed by Eric H. Cline over the weekend.  It provides a great summary of the late Bronze Age world and the various theories for why it collapsed.  If you are at all interested in this time period I highly recommend it. 

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10185.html
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 19, 2015, 05:26:25 PM
Oh yeah highlighted that one for later.,

Lots of theories, not so much good evidence though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 21, 2015, 01:52:44 PM
That is one of the things I most enjoyed about the book.  He doesn't have a pet theory he is advocating.  He spends most of the book explaining how little we really know, how some of the theories were based on conclusions we now know to be incorrect and how no one theory does an adequate job explaining what happened.

I also liked his approach of providing an overview of the civilization that was lost before discussing the various theories of how it collapsed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on May 21, 2015, 05:14:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyry8mgXiTk

Charming in person, book is great.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 21, 2015, 05:28:16 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on May 21, 2015, 05:14:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyry8mgXiTk

Charming in person, book is great.

:thumbsup:


Thanks very much for the link
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 25, 2015, 03:09:13 PM
Book recommendation request from you history nerds: is there a good English-language bio of Admiral Yi? I mean the Korean fighting dude who kept defeating the Japanese, not the esteemed Languish poster.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 25, 2015, 04:57:37 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 25, 2015, 03:09:13 PM
Book recommendation request from you history nerds: is there a good English-language bio of Admiral Yi? I mean the Korean fighting dude who kept defeating the Japanese, not the esteemed Languish poster.  ;)

I am no help.  If it was not for our esteemed fellow poster I would not have known about the other Yi.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 25, 2015, 05:00:57 PM
I have a file on the other Yi.  He's not that interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 25, 2015, 10:20:36 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 25, 2015, 03:09:13 PM
Book recommendation request from you history nerds: is there a good English-language bio of Admiral Yi? I mean the Korean fighting dude who kept defeating the Japanese, not the esteemed Languish poster.  ;)

Watch this movie. It was a big hit here last year. Might not be completely unbiased though. ;)
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/history/2013/05/world_war_i_veteran_the_last_of_the_great_war_s_soldiers_speak.html

Also, some folks here might be interested in this, a book of interviews of the last doughboys.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/history/2013/05/world_war_i_veteran_the_last_of_the_great_war_s_soldiers_speak.html
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 26, 2015, 07:55:33 AM
The nerds have let me down.  :weep:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 26, 2015, 08:02:43 AM
Try the Smarties instead.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/41/40/54/414054c4a14a8c9eea69efda2cc5771b.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on May 26, 2015, 08:05:43 AM
In Canada, those are Rockets.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 07, 2015, 10:23:49 PM
I tought I already asked this, but a quick search implies otherwise... :unsure:

Can anyone recommend some good books on pike and shot warfare? Obviously books on the Thirty Years War and British Civil War would be prominent. The Wars with the Ottomans too.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on June 07, 2015, 10:39:31 PM
Well, do you want a history of those periods, or a history of specifically that type of fighting?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on June 07, 2015, 11:51:55 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 26, 2015, 08:02:43 AM
Try the Smarties instead.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/41/40/54/414054c4a14a8c9eea69efda2cc5771b.jpg)

Those aren't Smarties. :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 07, 2015, 11:56:45 PM
These are Smarties:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.erinnerstdudich.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2Ff-photo-by-darrenleestephens-1394831879ngk48.jpg&hash=fc92c11e013a78f9231f49c80f65a20a676de1b5)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 08, 2015, 12:07:55 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on June 07, 2015, 10:39:31 PM
Well, do you want a history of those periods, or a history of specifically that type of fighting?
The wars in general and the style of fighting specifically.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 08, 2015, 09:23:57 PM
So, any suggestions? 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 09, 2015, 05:01:57 AM
Haven't read any book that really had the style of fighting as focus.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 09, 2015, 05:22:35 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 09, 2015, 05:01:57 AM
Haven't read any book that really had the style of fighting as focus.
Really? The height of Sweden's power occurred during that time though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 09, 2015, 05:27:38 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 09, 2015, 05:22:35 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 09, 2015, 05:01:57 AM
Haven't read any book that really had the style of fighting as focus.
Really? The height of Sweden's power occurred during that time though.

Yeah and many books on Gustavus Adolphus touch upon it but the style of fighting isn't the focus.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 09, 2015, 05:34:19 AM
He was one of the greatest generals of the age, how could they just "touch on it"!? :ultra:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 09, 2015, 06:31:56 AM
http://www.amazon.com/The-Dawn-Modern-Warfare-History/dp/0803265867
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 09, 2015, 06:35:29 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 09, 2015, 06:31:56 AM
http://www.amazon.com/The-Dawn-Modern-Warfare-History/dp/0803265867
Much appreciated Mr. Anger, I'll see if I can order that the next time I go to What the Book in Seoul. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 09, 2015, 07:07:01 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 09, 2015, 06:35:29 AM
What the Book

He just told you.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 09, 2015, 07:16:54 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 09, 2015, 07:07:01 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 09, 2015, 06:35:29 AM
What the Book

He just told you.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onlyitaewon.com%2Fuploads%2F1%2F0%2F8%2F5%2F10851822%2F9075384_orig.png&hash=ead8f7d8b966d6479117676eac35a8ed74536c16)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 16, 2015, 02:02:48 AM
Started Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. I normally don't read thrillers, but I was in the mood for something Cold War-ish. Haven't seen the BBC series or the recent movie yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 16, 2015, 11:27:43 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 16, 2015, 02:02:48 AM
Started Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. I normally don't read thrillers, but I was in the mood for something Cold War-ish. Haven't seen the BBC series or the recent movie yet.

Watch the BBC version. Much better than the movie.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on June 22, 2015, 01:35:48 PM
Anyone know anything great on Late Antique and Medieval Spain?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 22, 2015, 01:55:02 PM
https://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/

Varied stuff on here but the guy's area of expertise is 10th century Catalonia.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on June 22, 2015, 02:43:09 PM
 :cry:
I'm so happy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on June 22, 2015, 03:00:25 PM
Anything like that for Sicily or Italy too?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 22, 2015, 03:14:55 PM
Leonardo da Vinci:  A Psychosexual Study of an Infantile Reminiscence by Sigmund Freud.

Freud seems obsessed by something, but I can't seem to put my penis on what... :unsure:

;)

Largely what you would expect; Freud proves that da Vinci was mother obsessed and homosexual by using some of his writings and artworks.  The best part is when Freud explains that homosexuality is caused by a domineering mother and either a weak-willed or absentee father.  It's full of crap; but nowhere near as full of crap as Dan Brown.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 22, 2015, 03:19:20 PM
Dan Brown was amazingly effective at convincing people Constantine is the most important figure in Christian Theology.

All Christians were hippies who worshiped the divine feminine in girly rites of fluffy goodness. Than Constantine came along and made the penis superior to all. True story.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 22, 2015, 04:22:56 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 22, 2015, 03:00:25 PM
Anything like that for Sicily or Italy too?

Don't push your luck.    :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on June 23, 2015, 06:07:01 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 22, 2015, 03:00:25 PM
Anything like that for Sicily or Italy too?

From an archaeological perspective, Villa to Village is still one of the more influential books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 23, 2015, 12:47:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 22, 2015, 03:19:20 PM
Dan Brown was amazingly effective at convincing people Constantine is the most important figure in Christian Theology.

All Christians were hippies who worshiped the divine feminine in girly rites of fluffy goodness. Than Constantine came along and made the penis superior to all. True story.

Strangely enough I was just reading about Brancusi's "Princess X".  Those things are all over the place now.


;)

(Princess X is not safe for work; at least it wasn't safe for the 1920 Paris Salon.)

Dan Brown has been effective at convincing people of amazingly foolish things about art history as well.  I was watching a BBC documentary on great art works.  They discussed "The Da Vinci Code" when they were covering "The Last Supper."  :bleeding:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 23, 2015, 12:52:53 PM
Reading an interesting history book about an invasion of an east asian nation by an army over a hundred thousand Christians armed with modern gunpowder weapons set on world conquest - the first part of the Imjin War, by Samuel Hawley. Very good stuff.  ;)

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 23, 2015, 01:03:26 PM
If only they had succeeded we would all be worshiping Jesus Amiibos today.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 23, 2015, 05:02:44 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 23, 2015, 12:52:53 PM
Reading an interesting history book about an invasion of an east asian nation by an army over a hundred thousand Christians armed with modern gunpowder weapons set on world conquest - the first part of the Imjin War, by Samuel Hawley. Very good stuff.  ;)
That's not how I remember the Imjin War.  :unsure:

What is this referencing? I don't get the joke.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on June 24, 2015, 04:38:21 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 23, 2015, 05:02:44 PM

That's not how I remember the Imjin War.  :unsure:


If you remember the Imjin War, you weren't really there.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 24, 2015, 08:23:05 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 23, 2015, 05:02:44 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 23, 2015, 12:52:53 PM
Reading an interesting history book about an invasion of an east asian nation by an army over a hundred thousand Christians armed with modern gunpowder weapons set on world conquest - the first part of the Imjin War, by Samuel Hawley. Very good stuff.  ;)
That's not how I remember the Imjin War.  :unsure:

What is this referencing? I don't get the joke.

You remember the Imjin War? But you look so young!  :P

Slight exaggeration about the number of Christians in the Japanese army (there were many, but not all) ... interesting detail: apparently, the Spanish also had plans for invading China in the 16th century. They decided to invade Cambodia instead, which did not go well for them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 26, 2015, 01:23:32 PM
The Economic Consequences of the Peace by John Maynard Keynes.

Keynes was part of the British delegation at the Versailles conference.  The book is partly a portrait of the conference, and more often an argument for modifying the treaty.  He describes Lloyd George as a character from Celtic mythology and compares Wilson to a Methodist Minister.  I found it interesting that once Clemenceau had managed to convince Wilson that the treaty was in line with his Fourteen Points, Lloyd George was unable to convince him otherwise.  Also it was interesting that neither George nor Wilson could directly communicate with Orlando; but Clemenceau could.

Keynes adopts a Malthusian outlook; and begins his economic arguments by noting the rapid population expansion in eastern and central Europe.  He thinks that will lead to famine if Russian grain is no longer available to Europe.  In most other cases, though, his predictions are dead on; most notably he predicts a rise in extremism in Germany.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 26, 2015, 01:35:12 PM
All Clemenceau wanted was American and British guarantees of French security but once he had the opening he felt his moral obligation was to push for as many good things for France and as many bad things for Germany as he could. I found that interesting because he was not nearly as thirsty for vengeance as he projected publicly and also that it was this pursuit of what he felt like was his obligation of office that, in many ways, undermined his primary objective. The American Senate did not approve the treaty and the British immediately became all paranoid over French power on the continent.

I did like Lloyd George's quote that sitting in those meetings was like sitting between Napoleon and Jesus :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 26, 2015, 01:40:38 PM
Keynes portrays Clemenceau in a negative light throughout the chapters where he talks about the conference.  His view was that Clemenceau assumed that yet another war was coming, and that Clemenceau wanted to cripple Germany so that Germany and France would be on equal footing next time through.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 26, 2015, 01:42:39 PM
I think I read somewhere that Clemenceau felt he would be destroyed politically at home if he was less than savage with Germany.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 26, 2015, 01:44:54 PM
Stevenson in "1914 - 1918" argued that the Versailles treaty was not unduly harsh, especially compared to previous peace treaties (including the one in 1871), and that its failure mostly stemmed from a lack of will to enforce it from the allies (except France who was left alone with it).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 26, 2015, 01:46:20 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on June 26, 2015, 01:40:38 PM
Keynes portrays Clemenceau in a negative light throughout the chapters where he talks about the conference.  His view was that Clemenceau assumed that yet another war was coming, and that Clemenceau wanted to cripple Germany so that Germany and France would be on equal footing next time through.

That is what Clemenceau projected but it was not the truth. Well he thought there would be another war but, as I said, his goal was a triple alliance between the US, the UK, and France. He figured that was all was required for French security.

But he felt like he had to push for as much as possible.

QuoteI think I read somewhere that Clemenceau felt he would be destroyed politically at home if he was less than savage with Germany.

Yep. His public posturing was, well, posturing. And sadly very counter-productive.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 26, 2015, 01:47:39 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 26, 2015, 01:42:39 PM
I think I read somewhere that Clemenceau felt he would be destroyed politically at home if he was less than savage with Germany.

That could be, Lloyd George greatly increased his coalitions' seats in parliament in 1918 by running on a platform of harshly punishing Germany.  The mood was probably similar in France.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 26, 2015, 01:48:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 26, 2015, 01:46:20 PM
That is what Clemenceau projected but it was not the truth. Well he thought there would be another war but, as I said, his goal was a triple alliance between the US, the UK, and France. He figured that was all was required for French security.

And of course French security has been the guiding principle of American foreign policy since inception.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 26, 2015, 02:59:18 PM
I just read Den Nationnale Winsten (The National Gain) by Anders Chydenius. In it he describes how the invisible hand works. This was 11 years before Adam Smith.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 26, 2015, 03:26:40 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 26, 2015, 01:48:42 PM
And of course French security has been the guiding principle of American foreign policy since inception.

I guess that makes up for that other DiCaprio film, The Man in the Iron Mask.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 26, 2015, 03:35:07 PM
Just read a lovely book (catalogue) from the British Museum about netsuke.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 29, 2015, 12:00:06 PM
The Iliad (Samuel Butler Translation)

I was reminded of George Will's comment about Football while rereading this; it's violence interspersed by committee meetings.  Perhaps we're not so different from the Ancient Greeks.

The funeral games in book 23 seemed strange.  On their day off the Greek heroes wrestled, ran, threw spears and raced in chariots; exactly what they did on office days.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 29, 2015, 02:00:02 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 26, 2015, 01:44:54 PM
Stevenson in "1914 - 1918" argued that the Versailles treaty was not unduly harsh, especially compared to previous peace treaties (including the one in 1871), and that its failure mostly stemmed from a lack of will to enforce it from the allies (except France who was left alone with it).

Common argument.  The same arguments have been made back and forth since 1919.
As it happens, that one is wrong.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 29, 2015, 02:04:39 PM
Versailles was just Caudine Forks all over again.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 29, 2015, 02:25:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 29, 2015, 02:04:39 PM
Versailles was just Caudine Forks all over again.

I completely agree. It is amazing how often that mistake is made.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 29, 2015, 03:07:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2015, 02:25:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 29, 2015, 02:04:39 PM
Versailles was just Caudine Forks all over again.

I completely agree. It is amazing how often that mistake is made.

Well, as an example, arguably the Germans made a similar mistake after the Franco-Prussian War. They left the French hankering for revenge but not fatally weakened - just determined that, in the rematch, they would make sure to have useful allies.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 29, 2015, 03:19:32 PM
They came to a Caudine Fork in the road and took it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 29, 2015, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 29, 2015, 03:07:14 PM
Well, as an example, arguably the Germans made a similar mistake after the Franco-Prussian War. They left the French hankering for revenge but not fatally weakened - just determined that, in the rematch, they would make sure to have useful allies.

Yeah that was a poison pill. Germany needs France as its friend. Really every country should be friends with France but Germany in particular.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 29, 2015, 03:51:43 PM
Interesting fact about the 1871 indemnity.  It was paid off via public bond issuance.  About 1/3 of the subscribers were from Germany.

The victors at Versailles drew all the wrong conclusions from the prior experience in 1871.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 29, 2015, 03:56:32 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 29, 2015, 02:00:02 PM
Common argument.  The same arguments have been made back and forth since 1919.
As it happens, that one is wrong.

How do you respond to the argument that the French indemnity was larger as % of GDP than Germany's?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 29, 2015, 04:01:58 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 29, 2015, 03:51:43 PM
Interesting fact about the 1871 indemnity.  It was paid off via public bond issuance.  About 1/3 of the subscribers were from Germany.

The victors at Versailles drew all the wrong conclusions from the prior experience in 1871.

That is an interesting fact.  Languish is still good at giving these nuggets everyone now and then.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 29, 2015, 04:03:54 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 29, 2015, 03:51:43 PM
Interesting fact about the 1871 indemnity.  It was paid off via public bond issuance.  About 1/3 of the subscribers were from Germany.

The victors at Versailles drew all the wrong conclusions from the prior experience in 1871.

Interesting indeed.

I'll bite: what conclusions did the victors draw? I would have thought the obvious one they ought to have drawn was 'don't set yourself up for a vengeful re-match'.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 29, 2015, 04:39:26 PM
The 1871 indemnity was a fiasco; it didn't really harm France - in the short run it arguably helped develop French capital markets in fact - but it did significant economic damage to Germany and is regarded by many economic historians as a contributing factor to the start of the "Long Depression" of the late 19th century.  So really not the most attractive precedent.

The other false conclusion is the one that still refuses to die - that because France could easily pay of the indemnity in 1871, that is somehow proof of Germany's ability to pay in 1919.   But France in 1870 was financially very robust and despite the disaster of the Commune the war was pretty short.  During the Second Empire, the Bank of France increased gold stocks from about 3.5 metric tons in 1850 to over 200 tons by 1870.   The indemnity basically involved increasing the prewar debt-GDP ratio from around 55% to around 75-80% - high but manageable.

The financial situation of Germany in 1919 of course was quite different - the country was financially exhausted after a brutal 4 year total war, had huge losses of manpower and significant losses of territory and resources, and had already reached debt levels well in excess of 100% of GDP.  The situations are not remotely comparable.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 29, 2015, 05:43:51 PM
Given that the actual outcome was about as bad as it could be, I wonder what the victors ought to have done. I suppose 'almost anything other than what they did'.  :D

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 29, 2015, 10:19:28 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 29, 2015, 03:51:43 PM
Interesting fact about the 1871 indemnity.  It was paid off via public bond issuance.  About 1/3 of the subscribers were from Germany.

The victors at Versailles drew all the wrong conclusions from the prior experience in 1871.
What were the right conclusions?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 29, 2015, 10:56:40 PM
Edwin Starr knew them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on June 30, 2015, 12:00:46 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 29, 2015, 10:19:28 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 29, 2015, 03:51:43 PM
Interesting fact about the 1871 indemnity.  It was paid off via public bond issuance.  About 1/3 of the subscribers were from Germany.

The victors at Versailles drew all the wrong conclusions from the prior experience in 1871.
What were the right conclusions?

If you are going to impose impossible economic conditions on a country, make sure it's a small one with a tiny army that nobody likes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 30, 2015, 12:04:21 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2015, 12:00:46 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 29, 2015, 10:19:28 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 29, 2015, 03:51:43 PM
Interesting fact about the 1871 indemnity.  It was paid off via public bond issuance.  About 1/3 of the subscribers were from Germany.

The victors at Versailles drew all the wrong conclusions from the prior experience in 1871.
What were the right conclusions?

If you are going to impose impossible economic conditions on a country, make sure it's a small one with a tiny army that nobody likes.
Europe's been trying that for the last five years and it hasn't worked out well so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: frunk on June 30, 2015, 09:32:42 AM
Seveneves, Neal Stephenson's latest.  Probably the hardest SF novel he's written (not counting pseudo-historical novels like the Baroque Trilogy or Cryptonomicon).  The first part of the novel is quite entertaining in the "world is doomed in two years, what does humanity do" genre.  Second part shifts to a whole new set of characters many years later, and the disconnect makes me think it should have been condensed or expanded (turned into a ~30-50 page what happens afterward or a whole separate novel).

Big improvement over Reamde, but doesn't quite reach the heights of his best work (Zodiac, Snow Crash, Diamond Age).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 30, 2015, 09:34:58 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 30, 2015, 12:04:21 AM
Europe's been trying that for the last five years and it hasn't worked out well so far.

Yes. That was the joke.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 30, 2015, 12:53:26 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 29, 2015, 10:19:28 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 29, 2015, 03:51:43 PM
Interesting fact about the 1871 indemnity.  It was paid off via public bond issuance.  About 1/3 of the subscribers were from Germany.

The victors at Versailles drew all the wrong conclusions from the prior experience in 1871.
What were the right conclusions?

Financial indemnities are a bad idea.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 30, 2015, 12:56:16 PM
Did it really matter much? The Germans were already headed to hyper-inflation anyway because of financing the war. Then the Great Depression kicked in. They still could have blamed those things on losing the war and that dirty stab in the back crew even without any treaties.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 30, 2015, 01:25:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 30, 2015, 12:56:16 PM
Did it really matter much? The Germans were already headed to hyper-inflation anyway because of financing the war.

I don't think so -- debt levels were quite high but could have been managed by some combination of moderate inflation plus domestic rescheduling and/or financial repression.  The indemnity obligation is what helped give rise to the misguided plan of using massive bill printing as a mechanism of politico-economic resistance.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on June 30, 2015, 02:59:56 PM
Hyperinflation wasn't what brought the Nazis to power anyway.  The problem wasn't onerous economic conditions, but that the Germans never recognized the fact they lost the war.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 30, 2015, 04:12:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2015, 02:59:56 PM
Hyperinflation wasn't what brought the Nazis to power anyway.  The problem wasn't onerous economic conditions, but that the Germans never recognized the fact they lost the war.

I don't think there much support for the proposition that Germany's hyper inflation played no role in the political chaos which followed. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on June 30, 2015, 04:33:35 PM
Yeah, but they didn't come to power in the 1921.  Hyperinflation had been resolved by the time they came to power. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 30, 2015, 04:37:26 PM
My impression is that the Depression played a much bigger role than the earlier inflation.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 30, 2015, 04:37:26 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 30, 2015, 04:12:14 PM
I don't think there much support for the proposition that Germany's hyper inflation played no role in the political chaos which followed.

Said that way - no role - hard to contest.  But it was definitely secondary to the unemployment crisis a decade later.  German historical memory is selective in that regard - you would think that Germans would be sensitive to the dangers of extreme austerity in the presence of active right and left wing populist movements.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 30, 2015, 04:39:46 PM
The hyperinflation wiped out the accumulated savings of the middle class.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 30, 2015, 05:09:27 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 30, 2015, 04:37:26 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 30, 2015, 04:12:14 PM
I don't think there much support for the proposition that Germany's hyper inflation played no role in the political chaos which followed.

Said that way - no role - hard to contest.  But it was definitely secondary to the unemployment crisis a decade later.  German historical memory is selective in that regard - you would think that Germans would be sensitive to the dangers of extreme austerity in the presence of active right and left wing populist movements.

Sure.  But isn't there a connection between the hyperinflation and the later unemployment which then provided the necessary economic condition for extremist parties to have some measure of success at the ballot box.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 02, 2015, 11:54:43 AM
Annabel Lee (http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/174151) by Edgar Allen Poe

Does anyone else think of "Lolita" when they read this?  It's hard enough to think of a idyllic romance in any of Poe's work; but Nabokov made it impossible (at least for me) in this case.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 06, 2015, 03:58:18 PM
Ozymandias (http://www.shmoop.com/ozymandias/poem-text.html) by Percy Bysshe Shelley

While there's a couple transliterations of "Ramses" today, it's surprising that it was ever transliterated as "Ozymandias".  The poem is about Ramses II; who was indeed one of the most prolific builders of ancient Egypt.  A number of the monuments he built to himself are still extant; at the time the poem was written the temple complex at Abu Simbel was just being rediscovered.

I learned that Shelley wrote this as a competition with Horace Smith.  Smith's poem (http://www.potw.org/archive/potw192.html) lacks the genius of Shelley's and hammers the point home; but is still interesting.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 06, 2015, 04:08:08 PM
Is Ramses from the same word/phrase as Ozymandias?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 06, 2015, 04:27:01 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 06, 2015, 03:58:18 PM
Ozymandias (http://www.shmoop.com/ozymandias/poem-text.html) by Percy Bysshe Shelley

While there's a couple transliterations of "Ramses" today, it's surprising that it was ever transliterated as "Ozymandias".  The poem is about Ramses II; who was indeed one of the most prolific builders of ancient Egypt.  A number of the monuments he built to himself are still extant; at the time the poem was written the temple complex at Abu Simbel was just being rediscovered.

I learned that Shelley wrote this as a competition with Horace Smith.  Smith's poem (http://www.potw.org/archive/potw192.html) lacks the genius of Shelley's and hammers the point home; but is still interesting.

Ramses II's granddad hung in a Niagra Falls fun fair, scaring kiddies for a century, until he was "discovered" as a royal mummy & exported back to Egypt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_I#Rediscovery_and_repatriation

Look on my works ye mighty and dispair, indeed!  :D

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 06, 2015, 04:37:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 06, 2015, 04:27:01 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 06, 2015, 03:58:18 PM
Ozymandias (http://www.shmoop.com/ozymandias/poem-text.html) by Percy Bysshe Shelley

While there's a couple transliterations of "Ramses" today, it's surprising that it was ever transliterated as "Ozymandias".  The poem is about Ramses II; who was indeed one of the most prolific builders of ancient Egypt.  A number of the monuments he built to himself are still extant; at the time the poem was written the temple complex at Abu Simbel was just being rediscovered.

I learned that Shelley wrote this as a competition with Horace Smith.  Smith's poem (http://www.potw.org/archive/potw192.html) lacks the genius of Shelley's and hammers the point home; but is still interesting.

Ramses II's granddad hung in a Niagra Falls fun fair, scaring kiddies for a century, until he was "discovered" as a royal mummy & exported back to Egypt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_I#Rediscovery_and_repatriation

Look on my works ye mighty and dispair, indeed!  :D

I had been to the Niagra Falls Museum when I was a child and then many years later to the Luxor Museum.  I must have seen him at the both places, but I don't remember anything about the Niagra Falls Museum except that it was incredibly kitschy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on July 06, 2015, 04:52:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 30, 2015, 05:09:27 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 30, 2015, 04:37:26 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 30, 2015, 04:12:14 PM
I don't think there much support for the proposition that Germany's hyper inflation played no role in the political chaos which followed.

Said that way - no role - hard to contest.  But it was definitely secondary to the unemployment crisis a decade later.  German historical memory is selective in that regard - you would think that Germans would be sensitive to the dangers of extreme austerity in the presence of active right and left wing populist movements.


Sure.  But isn't there a connection between the hyperinflation and the later unemployment which then provided the necessary economic condition for extremist parties to have some measure of success at the ballot box.

I dunno, the Great depression hit everyone pretty hard.  Germany had gotten it economic house in order by the late 1920's and nobody wanted to hear from the Nazis anymore.  They were doing fairly well, in no small part do to debt restructuring and American loans.  Funny how things work like that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on July 06, 2015, 10:15:57 PM
Anyone have any recommendations for a history (any aspect) of the Wars of the Roses?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 07, 2015, 02:22:58 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 06, 2015, 10:15:57 PM
Anyone have any recommendations for a history (any aspect) of the Wars of the Roses?

I bought and read a ton of books on WotR a couple of years back, but no book really stands out in my memory. Probably because they all are based on the same fairly limited sources. As a general history I think you can do a lot worse than the Alison Weir book, even if it kind of ends a bit early with the death of Henry VI. IIRC it was a decent read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 07, 2015, 07:39:08 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 06, 2015, 10:15:57 PM
Anyone have any recommendations for a history (any aspect) of the Wars of the Roses?

The Wars of the Roses, Alison Weir.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on July 07, 2015, 07:57:56 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 06, 2015, 04:52:09 PM
I dunno, the Great depression hit everyone pretty hard.  Germany had gotten it economic house in order by the late 1920's and nobody wanted to hear from the Nazis anymore.  They were doing fairly well, in no small part do to debt restructuring and American loans.  Funny how things work like that.

True and they and France got together and swore they would never fight a war again. France tried to keep up its bargain. Boche backstabbers.

Which is one of the reasons I get cranky at people who insist the Treaty of Versailles made a second war inevitable.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on July 07, 2015, 08:07:00 AM
Alison Weir's book is fine, but the War of the Roses is too big a subject for a single volume history to get to grips with.

Enjoying a book on a different civil war at the moment, the first volume of Foote.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on July 07, 2015, 08:09:33 AM
Shelby Foote was a great and gifted story teller.

'If America was really as great as it claims to be this war would never have taken place. But since it did we have to pretend our generals were the greatest and our soldiers were the bravest.' Something to that effect  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 07, 2015, 08:16:37 AM
Currently reading Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin by Timothy Snyder. Very good, very grim. Points out that the horrors of the time were caused by the cumulative effect of being ground between the two dictators. Also, makes the important point that both dictators tried their hardest to implicate as many people as possible in their crimes - that collaboration was common and that the collaborators were often simply included in the next round of victims: people destroyed morally and then physically.   
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on July 07, 2015, 08:29:50 AM
You could see that effect starting in the French Revolution. The terror ended before really crazy numbers of people were killed (officially anyway...looking at you infernal columns) but everybody who supported the republic no matter how moderate was completely shattered morally. Afterwards they tried their damnedest to restore the spirit of 1789 but everybody left was too cynical and paranoid to pull it off. Terror has that effect which is ironic considering how it usually gets used to purify society. The Russian Revolution just decided the French didn't go far enough.

It was rather fascinating when I studied the formation of the Soviet Satellite governments just how cynically designed it was to bribe people into collaboration. The whole plan was we will make you a corrupt and cynical person and put you in charge. And then purge you later if necessary.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on July 07, 2015, 03:11:14 PM
Quote from: Gups on July 07, 2015, 08:07:00 AM
Alison Weir's book is fine, but the War of the Roses is too big a subject for a single volume history to get to grips with.

What should I read after Weir's, then?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 07, 2015, 03:28:45 PM
Is there any particular aspect of the WotR that you find extra interesting?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on July 07, 2015, 03:37:58 PM
I'll have an answer to that after I finish Weir's book.  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on July 07, 2015, 06:16:28 PM
Richard III and Warwick The Kingmaker, both by Paul Murray Kendall are good in my opinion.  The Sunne in Splendor by Sharon K. Penman and The Daughter of Time by Jospehine Tey are alright for historical fiction.  I'm a big Richard III and Yorkist fan, so my tastes are biased.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 07, 2015, 06:38:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2015, 08:09:33 AM
Shelby Foote was a great and gifted story teller.

'If America was really as great as it claims to be this war would never have taken place. But since it did we have to pretend our generals were the greatest and our soldiers were the bravest.' Something to that effect  :lol:
He really was, a bit of a southern sympathizer though. <_<
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 07, 2015, 06:44:25 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on July 07, 2015, 06:16:28 PM
Richard III and Warwick The Kingmaker, both by Paul Murray Kendall are good in my opinion.  The Sunne in Splendor by Sharon K. Penman and The Daughter of Time by Jospehine Tey are alright for historical fiction.  I'm a big Richard III and Yorkist fan, so my tastes are biased.

Good man. Lancaster sucks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 08, 2015, 02:35:28 AM
Yorkists are cool. Switches are fine too; I visited Warwick Castle last summer. A Warwick! A Warwick! :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 08, 2015, 03:59:34 AM
York. :x
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 08, 2015, 04:04:11 AM
Quote from: The Brain on July 08, 2015, 02:35:28 AM
Yorkists are cool. Switches are fine too; I visited Warwick Castle last summer. A Warwick! A Warwick! :)

Davis?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 08, 2015, 04:16:01 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 08, 2015, 04:04:11 AM
Quote from: The Brain on July 08, 2015, 02:35:28 AM
Yorkists are cool. Switches are fine too; I visited Warwick Castle last summer. A Warwick! A Warwick! :)

Davis?

Kincaid. :wub:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on July 08, 2015, 07:19:37 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on July 07, 2015, 06:16:28 PM
Richard III and Warwick The Kingmaker, both by Paul Murray Kendall are good in my opinion.  The Sunne in Splendor by Sharon K. Penman and The Daughter of Time by Jospehine Tey are alright for historical fiction.  I'm a big Richard III and Yorkist fan, so my tastes are biased.

I binned Sunne in Splendor about 500 pages in and was surprised I lasted that long. Too Mills and Boony for me.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on July 08, 2015, 08:00:37 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 07, 2015, 06:38:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2015, 08:09:33 AM
Shelby Foote was a great and gifted story teller.

'If America was really as great as it claims to be this war would never have taken place. But since it did we have to pretend our generals were the greatest and our soldiers were the bravest.' Something to that effect  :lol:
He really was, a bit of a southern sympathizer though. <_<

Not really. He is fond of them but he does not endorse their cause. His brain is with the Union and his heart is with the Confederacy :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on July 08, 2015, 08:31:10 PM
Quote from: Gups on July 08, 2015, 07:19:37 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on July 07, 2015, 06:16:28 PM
Richard III and Warwick The Kingmaker, both by Paul Murray Kendall are good in my opinion.  The Sunne in Splendor by Sharon K. Penman and The Daughter of Time by Jospehine Tey are alright for historical fiction.  I'm a big Richard III and Yorkist fan, so my tastes are biased.

I binned Sunne in Splendor about 500 pages in and was surprised I lasted that long. Too Mills and Boony for me.
I haven't made it that far yet. :Embarrass:  I'm just prior to George having his "accident".  I'm presuming it gets more romantic/ized during the ensuing years.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 08, 2015, 09:33:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2015, 08:00:37 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 07, 2015, 06:38:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2015, 08:09:33 AM
Shelby Foote was a great and gifted story teller.

'If America was really as great as it claims to be this war would never have taken place. But since it did we have to pretend our generals were the greatest and our soldiers were the bravest.' Something to that effect  :lol:
He really was, a bit of a southern sympathizer though. <_<

Not really. He is fond of them but he does not endorse their cause. His brain is with the Union and his heart is with the Confederacy :P

He's evil, but don't worry, he's too pragmatic to follow through on it.  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 08, 2015, 09:40:11 PM
Lovely prose, except that he uses "bristle" too much.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Lettow77 on July 09, 2015, 12:44:52 AM
 Shelby Foote is ideologically sound. He is a wonderful gentleman and his literary touch is beautiful.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 09, 2015, 07:50:31 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 08, 2015, 09:40:11 PM
Lovely prose, except that he uses "bristle" too much.

When describing contemporary facial hairstyles, that word cannot be used too much.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on July 09, 2015, 07:59:50 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 08, 2015, 09:33:25 PM
He's evil, but don't worry, he's too pragmatic to follow through on it.  :P

He is dead so I think we are safe :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 09, 2015, 04:42:33 PM
James Joyce, Ulysses

Stephen Dedalus is a loser; Leopold Bloom is a pervert; Molly Bloom is a whore; Trieste-Zurich-Paris, 1914-1921.

:P ;)

I liked this book a lot the first time I read it; this time not so much.  Joyce seems a little too convinced of his own cleverness, and builds chapters around demonstrating that.  Some of the chapters are brilliant; I especially like all the nightmares in Circe.  Others are hard to get through, the long, florid asides in the Cyclops I found to be a trial.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 10, 2015, 01:59:20 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 09, 2015, 04:42:33 PM
James Joyce, Ulysses

Stephen Dedalus is a loser; Leopold Bloom is a pervert; Molly Bloom is a whore; Trieste-Zurich-Paris, 1914-1921.

Languish must really be dying if I can't even get Fahdiz to respond to that.   :(

London, 1802 (http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/174797) by William Wordsworth

Romantic, moralistic, sentimental and nationalist; this poem has it all.  It seems to prefigure the Victorian heavily romanticized view of the British past and also reflects Wordsworth's growing conservatism.

I'm not much of a fan of Milton, so when Wordsworth said that Milton had "a voice whose sound was like the sea", my immediate thought was, "Yes, dull and repetitive."   ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on July 10, 2015, 02:05:04 PM
I haven't seen Fahdiz post in a very long time.  Too long. :cry:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 10, 2015, 02:07:19 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 09, 2015, 04:42:33 PM
James Joyce, Ulysses

Stephen Dedalus is a loser; Leopold Bloom is a pervert; Molly Bloom is a whore; Trieste-Zurich-Paris, 1914-1921.

:P ;)

I liked this book a lot the first time I read it; this time not so much.  Joyce seems a little too convinced of his own cleverness, and builds chapters around demonstrating that.  Some of the chapters are brilliant; I especially like all the nightmares in Circe.  Others are hard to get through, the long, florid asides in the Cyclops I found to be a trial.

I've not read it in its entirety myself, but I read the accompanying texts of the Penguin Classics edition I have which explained how Joyce created a spreadsheet where he noted the themes, symbolisms, color palettes etc. for each chapter. Apparently he was very frustrated that no one recognized this brilliant design, forcing him to publish it years after release. :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 10, 2015, 02:26:25 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 10, 2015, 02:07:19 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 09, 2015, 04:42:33 PM
James Joyce, Ulysses

Stephen Dedalus is a loser; Leopold Bloom is a pervert; Molly Bloom is a whore; Trieste-Zurich-Paris, 1914-1921.

:P ;)

I liked this book a lot the first time I read it; this time not so much.  Joyce seems a little too convinced of his own cleverness, and builds chapters around demonstrating that.  Some of the chapters are brilliant; I especially like all the nightmares in Circe.  Others are hard to get through, the long, florid asides in the Cyclops I found to be a trial.

I've not read it in its entirety myself, but I read the accompanying texts of the Penguin Classics edition I have which explained how Joyce created a spreadsheet where he noted the themes, symbolisms, color palettes etc. for each chapter. Apparently he was very frustrated that no one recognized this brilliant design, forcing him to publish it years after release. :lol:

:bleeding:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 11, 2015, 11:14:37 PM
Titus Andronicus. One of the bard's less sensible works.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 15, 2015, 05:51:46 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 03, 2015, 05:32:24 PM
Quote from: celedhring on February 03, 2015, 12:07:04 PM
Harper Lee to publish a sequel of To Kill a Mockingbird  :w00t:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/feb/03/harper-lee-new-novel-to-kill-a-mockingbird
Woah! Can't wait! :w00t:


Maybe I can wait after all. :(

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/13/critics-harper-lee-go-set-a-watchman-to-kill-a-mockingbird

QuoteNo wonder Harper Lee stayed silent, with critics like these

Hadley Freeman

For just over half a century, Nelle Harper Lee has been the great mystery of the literary world – not so much a "what if" as a "why?" Why would a woman who had written such an extraordinary debut novel never write another book? Why would such a beloved author throw down her shutters against all publicity, all fans, all demands on her time? Why?

The most likely answer was given by her older sister, Alice, who told documentary filmmaker Mary McDonagh Murphy that Lee had long ago simply said, "I haven't anywhere to go, but down."

The first chapter of Go Set a Watchman was published at the weekend in the Guardian, 55 years to the day after To Kill a Mockingbird, and embargos have already been broken by reviewers releasing their verdicts before the book's publication on Tuesday. And lo, the public and critical reaction has firmly vindicated Lee's decision long ago to reject the outside world and put down her pen.

Lee wrote Go Set a Watchman before To Kill a Mockingbird and it was rejected by her publisher. She spent two years reworking Watchman, setting it two decades earlier and changing the narrator, which turned it into the novel so beloved today. So despite the chronology, Watchman is not the sequel to Mockingbird – it is a first draft.

And yet, in reviews it has been compared unfavourably to its follow-up, as though it were somehow a surprise that an unedited (Lee reportedly told her editor she wanted Watchman released as it was written), rejected first draft should be inferior to one that was published and became a classic. "Lacks the lyricism of Mockingbird," Michiko Kakutani wrote in the New York Times; "less likeable," Mark Lawson wrote in the Guardian. The comparisons with Mockingbird, which Lee allegedly feared so much she never wrote again, have been as predictable as they are inevitable. But they are not, despite what reviewers seem to think, requisite or revealing.

Then we come to the plot differences between the two books. The first, which is revealed in the first chapter, is that Jean Louise Finch's brother is dead – as fans of Mockingbird quickly realised, this means Jem. Seeing as so many readers have long read Mockingbird as Lee's quasi-autobiography, this is not a surprise, as Lee's own older brother, Edwin, died suddenly in adulthood.

More shocking, apparently, is the revelation that Atticus Finch, the morally upright lawyer of Mockingbird, is in Watchman a racist who argues for segregation. This, the New York Times fretted, "could reshape Ms Lee's legacy", as though it were Watchman itself that were racist (which it isn't – Jean Louise is horrified by her father's attitude), as opposed to a fictional character. "As far as literary scandals go," tutted the Daily Mail, "it couldn't get much worse."

The reactions on social media were similarly outsized, suggesting quite a few adults do not grasp the difference between (a) real life and fiction, (b) characters and authors, and (c) Atticus Finch and their father. I feel some sympathy for any hipster parents out there who named their son Atticus, but otherwise I have little time for readers who feel personally affronted that an author experimented with different versions of a character before writing the final version.

One of the most enduring criticisms of Mockingbird has been that it is too simplistic – particularly the character of Atticus. In a 2006 essay in the New Yorker, Thomas Mallon described him, with some justification, as "a plaster saint". So there is an amusing irony that some fans of the book are so outraged at this suggestion of shades to the character. Truly, an author cannot win.

Similarly, some reviewers have raised their handkerchiefs in horror at seeing Jean Louise use racially charged descriptions such as the smell of "a clean negro". Presumably these reviewers are relying on their memories of the film of Mockingbird instead of the actual book, given that Scout and Jem frequently use the N-word in the novel – as poor white children in Alabama in the 1930s, when the book was set, most certainly would have done. Both Watchman and Mockingbird were written in the 1950s. Judging the racial attitudes in these books by today's standards is as ridiculous as expecting a character, let alone an author, to behave exactly as you would like.

Some Mockingbird fans have been comforting themselves with the idea that Lee never wanted this book published, a theory that has been firmly rejected by her editors. One British journalist was so outraged at the idea Lee was being forced into the spotlight that she barrelled up to the old-age home where Lee now lives before being ejected by security.

There is a similar well-meaning hamfistedness to the reaction to Watchman in that it encapsulates everything Lee feared about writing again: the unreasonable expectations, the comparisons, the absurdly immature attitude that Lee's books are ours, as opposed to hers. For so long, readers told her they wanted more, and now they can't wait to kick the little we've unexpectedly been given. Honestly, is anyone out there still wondering why she never wrote again? As Lee – always wiser than any of her characters, including saintly non-racist Atticus – knew, the only way was down.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on July 15, 2015, 07:20:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2015, 08:09:33 AM
Shelby Foote was a great and gifted story teller.

'If America was really as great as it claims to be this war would never have taken place. But since it did we have to pretend our generals were the greatest and our soldiers were the bravest.' Something to that effect  :lol:

He was distantly related to me, so it's entirely possible he was mad.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on July 15, 2015, 09:24:12 PM
My gf has read 71 books in 2015. I expect her to reach 120.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 15, 2015, 09:25:24 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 15, 2015, 09:24:12 PM
My gf has read 71 books in 2015. I expect her to reach 120.

Are you counting books she reads to your kids?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on July 15, 2015, 09:46:00 PM
Nope.

List : https://www.goodreads.com/user_challenges/2311916
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 15, 2015, 10:02:39 PM
Romance and vampires, eh.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on July 16, 2015, 01:03:31 AM
Yeesh.  How many of those can you read until they all just blur together?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on July 16, 2015, 06:57:54 AM
10 maybe. She told me it's all the same structure. Details change, the order remains the same.

The worse is Melissa Foster, her structure even includes introducing a new character halfway thru the book that will be the star of the next book.

She started Legend from Marie Lu. I take that as a sign that she is starting to diversify.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on July 17, 2015, 11:22:15 AM
Birthday Presents to Self:
Spain: The Center of the World, 1519-1682
A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous 14th Century
Citizens: A Chronicle of the French Revolution
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 17, 2015, 01:15:39 PM
Finished Tour of Duty: Samurai, Military Service in Edo, and the Culture of Early Modern Japan, by Constantine Nomikos Vaporis. About the alternate attendance system and its impact. Decent but hardly great.

One thing that bugged me: "Unlike Paris, London, and St. Petersburg, cities with which it has sometimes been compared, Edo was built in a frontier region, backward in political and economic terms." LOLWTF
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on July 17, 2015, 02:02:11 PM
Haha good point.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 23, 2015, 12:28:57 PM
Finished Big Gun Battles: Warship Duels of the Second World War, by Stern. An enjoyable read, and I like that the author tried to understand and explain decisions made by the commanders. In some books it's more "XX retardedly and inexplicably decided to...", which isn't very helpful.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on July 23, 2015, 12:36:51 PM
I've been listening to Moby Dick through my Kindle.  I get the rhythm better listening to it then reading it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on July 23, 2015, 11:57:09 PM
Digging into Snow and Steel: The Battle of the Bulge
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 24, 2015, 12:56:19 AM
On a whim I order Anthony Kenny's A New History of Western Philosophy. Let's see how far I get with that one. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on July 25, 2015, 12:29:05 PM
Anyone have any interesting thoughts on A Distant Mirror?  Just finished it. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on July 25, 2015, 12:32:17 PM
I'm about 200 pages into Distant Mirror, after about 3 years of reading.  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 25, 2015, 12:36:41 PM
My experience reading A Distant Mirror is like a distant mirror to a time when I read books.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 28, 2015, 01:05:31 PM
Question for the Spanish speakers.  Are there any authors in Spanish that are the equivalent to Robert Louis Stevenson or Arthur Conan Doyle in English, or Alexandre Dumas and Jules Verne in French?  That is interesting and not too difficult; an ideal book for an intermediate level reader.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 28, 2015, 03:20:00 PM
Exactly how bad are the Gor books? I'm asking for a friend.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 28, 2015, 06:23:15 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 28, 2015, 03:20:00 PM
Exactly how bad are the Gor books? I'm asking for a friend.

Inconvenient Trut is OK.  Easier to just see the movie.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 29, 2015, 12:34:44 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 28, 2015, 06:23:15 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 28, 2015, 03:20:00 PM
Exactly how bad are the Gor books? I'm asking for a friend.

Inconvenient Trut is OK.  Easier to just see the movie.

Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on July 31, 2015, 07:24:09 AM
Any good books on Nappy's Invasion of Russia by a french Author?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 31, 2015, 07:27:16 AM
En traineau avec l'Empereur (Retraite de Russie)
Caulaincourt :smarty:  :frog:

Primary source.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on July 31, 2015, 07:32:08 AM
I was thinking that I should have just PMed you the question but 3 mins, is fast enough.

Thanks DB²
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on July 31, 2015, 10:39:10 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 15, 2015, 09:24:12 PM
My gf has read 71 books in 2015. I expect her to reach 120.

Update : 82
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 31, 2015, 10:41:17 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 31, 2015, 10:39:10 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 15, 2015, 09:24:12 PM
My gf has read 71 books in 2015. I expect her to reach 120.

Update : 82

The number doesn't really matter, if they are all essentially the same book about sexy vampires.  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on July 31, 2015, 10:43:02 AM
Atleast she's not playing CC saga.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 31, 2015, 11:16:09 AM
Also, why the hell are sexy vampires a thing? Why not sexy mummies or zombies for a change?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 31, 2015, 11:22:53 AM
Also a thing.
https://gotzombies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/9768.jpg (https://gotzombies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/9768.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 31, 2015, 11:24:47 AM
That site doesn't like direct linking of their stuff, it turns out.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 31, 2015, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 31, 2015, 11:16:09 AM
Also, why the hell are sexy vampires a thing? Why not sexy mummies or zombies for a change?  :hmm:

Some women are attracted to a darker, semi-sinister aspect of sexuality.  This is often represented by a male who is in some way outside the boundaries of acceptable society; Rochester or Heathcliff (it's no my-y-yth) for example.  Vampires are a (super) natural outgrowth of this.  Bela Lugosi received tons of fan mail from women, and famously had an affair with the it girl, Clara Bow.

Werewolves (judging by "Twilight's" success) can be sexy; mummies and zombies not so much.  I would guess that this is because vampires and werewolves straddle the line between human and bestial, while mummies or zombies being mindless have lost their humanity.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 31, 2015, 04:07:58 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 31, 2015, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 31, 2015, 11:16:09 AM
Also, why the hell are sexy vampires a thing? Why not sexy mummies or zombies for a change?  :hmm:

Some women are attracted to a darker, semi-sinister aspect of sexuality.  This is often represented by a male who is in some way outside the boundaries of acceptable society; Rochester or Heathcliff (it's no my-y-yth) for example.  Vampires are a (super) natural outgrowth of this.  Bela Lugosi received tons of fan mail from women, and famously had an affair with the it girl, Clara Bow.

Werewolves (judging by "Twilight's" success) can be sexy; mummies and zombies not so much.  I would guess that this is because vampires and werewolves straddle the line between human and bestial, while mummies or zombies being mindless have lost their humanity.

Yeah cause chicks hate mindless retards. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 31, 2015, 04:16:55 PM
Apparently, the "sexy vampire" theme (as opposed to the gross, bloated corpse of folklore) was invented in the same story competition among Lord Byron's friends and hangers-on during which "Frankenstein" was created. It was written by Byron's personal physician, whom he later turfed out of this employ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vampyre

QuoteThe story has its genesis in the summer of 1816, the Year Without a Summer, when Europe and parts of North America underwent a severe climate abnormality. Lord Byron and his young physician John Polidori were staying at the Villa Diodati by Lake Geneva and were visited by Percy Bysshe Shelley, Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley, and Claire Clairmont. Kept indoors by the "incessant rain" of that "wet, ungenial summer",[2] over three days in June the five turned to telling fantastical tales, and then writing their own. Fueled by ghost stories such as the Fantasmagoriana, William Beckford's Vathek and quantities of laudanum, Mary Shelley, in collaboration with Percy Bysshe Shelley,[3] produced what would become Frankenstein, or The Modern Prometheus. Polidori was inspired by a fragmentary story of Byron's, Fragment of a Novel (1816), also known as "A Fragment" and "The Burial: A Fragment", and in "two or three idle mornings" produced "The Vampyre".[4]

Thank goodness for the laudanum!  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 31, 2015, 07:50:55 PM
No problem that can't be fixed by liberal doses of opiates.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 01, 2015, 01:05:54 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 31, 2015, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 31, 2015, 11:16:09 AM
Also, why the hell are sexy vampires a thing? Why not sexy mummies or zombies for a change?  :hmm:

Some women are attracted to a darker, semi-sinister aspect of sexuality.  This is often represented by a male who is in some way outside the boundaries of acceptable society; Rochester or Heathcliff (it's no my-y-yth) for example.  Vampires are a (super) natural outgrowth of this.  Bela Lugosi received tons of fan mail from women, and famously had an affair with the it girl, Clara Bow.

Werewolves (judging by "Twilight's" success) can be sexy; mummies and zombies not so much.  I would guess that this is because vampires and werewolves straddle the line between human and bestial, while mummies or zombies being mindless have lost their humanity.

Vampires and werewolves are inherently sexual creatures - sophisticated dark seducers vs. passionate animals. Zombies and mummies not so much. Zombies are generally a reflection of the mindless mob and mummies, err ... I dunno?

I suppose you could create a zombie spoof where instead of braaaaains they crave sex? And just like they generally won't eat each other they also won't fornicate with one another?`And having sex with zombies would make you a zombie, so it would be the ultimate STD.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 01, 2015, 12:14:37 PM
QuoteI suppose you could create a zombie spoof where instead of braaaaains they crave sex?
It's called Shivers.

It's actually completely horrifying. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Lettow77 on August 06, 2015, 07:17:37 AM
Sister Wives arc of Otoyomegatari. Really good stuff.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 06, 2015, 09:58:06 AM
Finished Viking Weapons and Combat Techniques, by Short. I was a bit unsure about this book, but then I read it. It appears to make very reasonable educated guesses about its subject, and the author is very clear about the fact that we know very little for certain. I may even be inspired to paint a few more miniature Vikings. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 06, 2015, 12:41:02 PM
The 1973 radio drama based on Asimov's Foundation Trilogy is now on Spotify:

http://www.openculture.com/2015/08/isaac-asimovs-foundation-trilogy-hear-the-1973-radio-dramatization.html
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 10, 2015, 08:46:05 PM
Mao: The Untold Story.

So is Mao just crazy and evil?  Like, legitimately psychopathic?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 12, 2015, 11:30:12 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 19, 2015, 10:44:36 AM
I read 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed by Eric H. Cline over the weekend.  It provides a great summary of the late Bronze Age world and the various theories for why it collapsed.  If you are at all interested in this time period I highly recommend it. 

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10185.html
Read it. Enjoyed it.

However it was too short and the thesis was lame. "It was a combination of all of the above" while always the most likely cause of such complex and widespread events neither puts butts in the seat, nor gets you grant money.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on August 13, 2015, 02:05:49 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 12, 2015, 11:30:12 PM

However it was too short and the thesis was lame. "It was a combination of all of the above" while always the most likely cause of such complex and widespread events neither puts butts in the seat, nor gets you grant money.

Which makes writing it commendable, not lame. Hiding it in the small print while selling it as a new angle that explains everything always puts me off.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 14, 2015, 05:37:10 PM
Finished up Order in Chaos by Hermann Balck. Slanted a little, but the operational details of the battles were good. The WW1 part of the book I thought was great. Jägers FTW

Still working on Snow and Steel; Great coverage on the commanders, focusing on the division and below. Great background on unit training and prep for the battle. So far "A"

Still waiting on 
The Sword Behind The Shield: A Combat History of the German Efforts to Relieve Budapest 1945 - Operation 'Konrad' I, III, III
by Norbert Számvéber

Supposedly the 19th is the release date.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 17, 2015, 01:48:43 AM
So, any other recommendations for books on bronze age civilizations?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 17, 2015, 04:06:01 PM
There's the speculative one about chariot warfare, was discussed a couple years back,
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 17, 2015, 04:28:35 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 17, 2015, 01:48:43 AM
So, any other recommendations for books on bronze age civilizations?

You are going to have to narrow it down a bit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 17, 2015, 04:33:07 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 17, 2015, 04:28:35 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 17, 2015, 01:48:43 AM
So, any other recommendations for books on bronze age civilizations?

You are going to have to narrow it down a bit.

Yeah. New England? The South? Midwest?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 18, 2015, 01:36:58 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 17, 2015, 04:28:35 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 17, 2015, 01:48:43 AM
So, any other recommendations for books on bronze age civilizations?

You are going to have to narrow it down a bit.
I have a broad interest in the development of  that level of civilization.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 18, 2015, 09:55:43 AM
Here you go.

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8488.html
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 21, 2015, 05:48:43 PM
Finally landed a copy at a decent price.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51X44H8QsML._SX368_BO1%2C204%2C203%2C200_.jpg&hash=95892411d7b8bca5c7d4a8de3a45f3ef87add9d9)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 25, 2015, 10:12:54 PM
Anyone know of any good books on preclonial Vietnamese history, or the history of Women in Vietnam (all eras). I find these topics to be quite interesting while I was there.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 26, 2015, 03:47:41 AM
Currently reading the third book in the Star Wars - Old Republic tie in novels.

"Fatal Alliance" was surprisingly decent, more like an RP action adventure showcasing all 8 classes from the game, good action, a decent mix of characters.

"Deceived" was about Darth Malgus and the immediate aftermath of the sacking of Coruscant. Still ok, though not exactly high literature.

Now on "Revan," which bridges the story between KotOR 1 and 2 (the connection between Revan and the Exile), and giving background to one of the MMO companions. Should be great, but unfortunately it's written by Drew Karpyshyn. He wrote for the video games Mass Effect 1&2, Jade Empire, Baldur's Gate II and KotOR. I tried reading his Mass Effect novels when I was playing ME2, but dear lord, his novel writing is atrocious. More often than not I find his characters come across as stupid for not being able to figure out basic stuff, and in Revan I find that sometimes he writes against the established character [spoiler]like when Bastila suggests her husband Revan leave a potential threat to the galaxy for future generations - he has to remind her that with her being pregnant that would mean their kid would have to deal with it[/spoiler].
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on August 26, 2015, 06:41:44 AM
Currently reading Jung's "Man and His Symbols". Extremely engaging. Next on my list, re-reading of the "newly abdridged" Frazier's "Golden Bough". Then most likely back to Jung.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 30, 2015, 03:27:47 PM
On my flight here I read And the Mountains Echoed by Kite Runner dude.  Kind of disappointing.  He piles on what are IMO a number of pointless plot threads a la J R R R R Martin.

However, still picked up A Thousand Splendid Suns, his second book.  I believe Jo Jo was pitching it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 30, 2015, 04:04:23 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 26, 2015, 06:41:44 AM
Currently reading Jung's "Man and His Symbols". Extremely engaging. Next on my list, re-reading of the "newly abdridged" Frazier's "Golden Bough". Then most likely back to Jung.

I thought you already read Frazier.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 30, 2015, 04:41:18 PM
Projective stuttering. The silent killer.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on August 30, 2015, 05:03:32 PM
I've already read more than one book this year. :smarty:







Oh and one of these :P for those here with broken detectors.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 30, 2015, 07:16:09 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 30, 2015, 05:03:32 PM
I've already read more than one book this year. :smarty:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmemecrunch.com%2Fmeme%2F71QJN%2Fcheck-out-the-big-brain-on-brad%2Fimage.png&hash=bdb4d1a6dee751d09299b5e0c390f9597bac27ac)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 10, 2015, 12:55:11 PM
Just picked up Bolivar: American Liberator by Marie Arana.  A significant gap in my historical knowledge.  So far the book is quite good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on September 11, 2015, 01:55:39 AM
Dual tracking fic and non-fic at the moment. Napoleon the Great by Andrew Roberts is a decent overview. Not hagiographic but comes close on some occasions. However, well-written with a good balance of personal, political and military.

Mark & the Void by Paul Murray - novel set in Dublin after the crash. Main character is a French banker. Weak-ass clichéd satire on bankers with cardboard cut out characters and thinly disguised information dumps (would any analyst, even a trainee, really ask what a T-Bill is?). A real shame - his last book Skippy Dies is sensational.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 11, 2015, 02:01:11 PM
Finished the Iliad. Like reading the script to an extended version of 300.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 11, 2015, 02:04:37 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 11, 2015, 02:01:11 PM
Finished the Iliad. Like reading the script to an extended version of 300.

A lot of 'The hard bronze clove him between the groin and the navel, and his shade fell whimpering into Hades', as I recall.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on September 11, 2015, 02:20:33 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 11, 2015, 02:04:37 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 11, 2015, 02:01:11 PM
Finished the Iliad. Like reading the script to an extended version of 300.

A lot of 'The hard bronze clove him between the groin and the navel, and his shade fell whimpering into Hades', as I recall.

That's nothing.  The song of Roland has like a dozen occasions where someone swings a sword down on top of a knight's head and cuts him and half and also spits his horse in two.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 11, 2015, 02:26:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 11, 2015, 02:20:33 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 11, 2015, 02:04:37 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 11, 2015, 02:01:11 PM
Finished the Iliad. Like reading the script to an extended version of 300.

A lot of 'The hard bronze clove him between the groin and the navel, and his shade fell whimpering into Hades', as I recall.

That's nothing.  The song of Roland has like a dozen occasions where someone swings a sword down on top of a knight's head and cuts him and half and also spits his horse in two.

That's an impressive feat.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on September 11, 2015, 02:28:29 PM
They just do not write them like that anymore.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 12, 2015, 02:51:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 10, 2015, 12:55:11 PM
Just picked up Bolivar: American Liberator by Marie Arana.  A significant gap in my historical knowledge.  So far the book is quite good.

About a third of the way in.  I've read nothing so far to disabuse me of the notion that fucking things up is hard coded in Latin American.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: dps on September 13, 2015, 07:20:26 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 11, 2015, 02:28:29 PM
They just do not write them like that anymore.

Don't find too many people that can spit like that anymore, either.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on September 13, 2015, 07:28:05 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 12, 2015, 02:51:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 10, 2015, 12:55:11 PM
Just picked up Bolivar: American Liberator by Marie Arana.  A significant gap in my historical knowledge.  So far the book is quite good.

About a third of the way in.  I've read nothing so far to disabuse me of the notion that fucking things up is hard coded in Latin American.
How so?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 12:38:30 AM
Taking a break from the eastern front and starting with Mein Kampf and the Quran
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jaron on September 14, 2015, 12:41:58 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 12:38:30 AM
Taking a break from the eastern front and starting with Mein Kampf and the Quran

Seems like your kind of books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 12:45:33 AM
I was thinking about Paine and/or Dumas, but maybe later.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 14, 2015, 08:19:53 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 12, 2015, 02:51:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 10, 2015, 12:55:11 PM
Just picked up Bolivar: American Liberator by Marie Arana.  A significant gap in my historical knowledge.  So far the book is quite good.

About a third of the way in.  I've read nothing so far to disabuse me of the notion that fucking things up is hard coded in Latin American.

He's the guy with the "ploughing the sea" quote, right? Seems he was of the same opinion.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on September 14, 2015, 09:21:19 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 12:38:30 AM
Taking a break from the eastern front and starting with Mein Kampf and the Quran

That will lead to some great Amazon recommendations. Or you being put on FBI watch list.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on September 14, 2015, 09:22:51 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 30, 2015, 04:04:23 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 26, 2015, 06:41:44 AM
Currently reading Jung's "Man and His Symbols". Extremely engaging. Next on my list, re-reading of the "newly abdridged" Frazier's "Golden Bough". Then most likely back to Jung.

I thought you already read Frazier.

Hence use of the word "re-reading" (as opposed to "reading") in that sentence.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 02:37:25 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 14, 2015, 09:21:19 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 12:38:30 AM
Taking a break from the eastern front and starting with Mein Kampf and the Quran

That will lead to some great Amazon recommendations. Or you being put on FBI watch list.
:D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 14, 2015, 02:43:22 PM
What's the appeal of reading Mein Kampf?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 02:48:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 02:43:22 PM
What's the appeal of reading Mein Kampf?

:huh:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2Fmeinkampfamazon_zps725ce6e3.jpg&hash=4dbd51d23458418a6a256f3079e77e8529dd527f)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 14, 2015, 02:50:57 PM
What am I suppose to get from that? :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 03:03:16 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 02:43:22 PM
What's the appeal of reading Mein Kampf?

Why not. No different than reading any book on a lunatic mass murderer.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:06:56 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 03:03:16 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 02:43:22 PM
What's the appeal of reading Mein Kampf?

Why not. No different than reading any book on a lunatic mass murderer.

I don't think I've ever read any book by a mass murderer.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on September 14, 2015, 03:12:04 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:06:56 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 03:03:16 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 02:43:22 PM
What's the appeal of reading Mein Kampf?

Why not. No different than reading any book on a lunatic mass murderer.

I don't think I've ever read any book by a mass murderer.

Me neither - I still have to read that Quran I ordered.

Edit: Kissinger is an entertaining author, I heard, though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:12:36 PM
:yawn:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on September 14, 2015, 03:13:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 02:43:22 PM
What's the appeal of reading Mein Kampf?

I would say any *author* is worth reading at least once.

(Was going to say *book* but that's too generous)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on September 14, 2015, 03:14:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 02:48:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 02:43:22 PM
What's the appeal of reading Mein Kampf?

:huh:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2Fmeinkampfamazon_zps725ce6e3.jpg&hash=4dbd51d23458418a6a256f3079e77e8529dd527f)

I wonder what Hitler writes on his blog.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:18:00 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 14, 2015, 03:13:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 02:43:22 PM
What's the appeal of reading Mein Kampf?

I would say any *author* is worth reading at least once.

(Was going to say *book* but that's too generous)

I'm not sure I agree with that. There are plenty of shit authors where there is little utility in reading their works.

At any rate, I'm not judging anyone who wants to read Mein Kampf, I just don't know why someone would want to.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 03:29:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:18:00 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 14, 2015, 03:13:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 02:43:22 PM
What's the appeal of reading Mein Kampf?

I would say any *author* is worth reading at least once.

(Was going to say *book* but that's too generous)



I'm not sure I agree with that. There are plenty of shit authors where there is little utility in reading their works.

At any rate, I'm not judging anyone who wants to read Mein Kampf, I just don't know why someone would want to.
To understand why this lunatic appealed to so many people in the early stages (20's-30's) . I'm sure there are other books as to why, but why read someone else's interpretation? Why not go to the primary source.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:30:33 PM
Fair enough. I wonder if you'll really get that straight out the horse's mouth when reading it in the context and time in which you live.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 14, 2015, 03:37:59 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 14, 2015, 08:19:53 AM
He's the guy with the "ploughing the sea" quote, right? Seems he was of the same opinion.  ;)

I have not yet encountered that quote.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 14, 2015, 03:39:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:30:33 PM
Fair enough. I wonder if you'll really get that straight out the horse's mouth when reading it in the context and time in which you live.

Not sure how one can understand fascism in Germany without considering the primary sources.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 03:40:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 02:50:57 PM
What am I suppose to get from that? :hmm:

Mein Kampf gets a solid 3.8 from Amazon customers. A fairly good read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 03:43:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:30:33 PM
Fair enough. I wonder if you'll really get that straight out the horse's mouth when reading it in the context and time in which you live.

Very good point. But maybe it's more a formula, than a one off as to how lunatics like that become so popular. I am talking the early years of his appeal.

I have also read before that he was an atheist, this I find hard to believe just from casual reads of various speeches.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:46:31 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 03:40:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 02:50:57 PM
What am I suppose to get from that? :hmm:

Mein Kampf gets a solid 3.8 from Amazon customers. A fairly good read.

That doesn't answer my question which was what is the appeal of reading it. ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 03:51:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:46:31 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 03:40:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 02:50:57 PM
What am I suppose to get from that? :hmm:

Mein Kampf gets a solid 3.8 from Amazon customers. A fairly good read.

That doesn't answer my question which was what is the appeal of reading it. ;)

What's the appeal of reading a good book? OK Philistine.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:57:51 PM
A good book or the good book?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:57:51 PM
A good book or the good book?

The good book isn't that good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 04:02:33 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:57:51 PM
A good book or the good book?

The good book isn't that good.
I think it is fascinating and some of the ones left out even more so.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 14, 2015, 04:03:00 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:57:51 PM
A good book or the good book?

The good book isn't that good.

:o
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 04:03:38 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 04:02:33 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:57:51 PM
A good book or the good book?

The good book isn't that good.
I think it is fascinating and some of the ones left out even more so.

Nazi fanboi.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 04:05:47 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 04:03:38 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 04:02:33 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:57:51 PM
A good book or the good book?

The good book isn't that good.
I think it is fascinating and some of the ones left out even more so.

Nazi fanboi.

Typical languish :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on September 14, 2015, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:57:51 PM
A good book or the good book?

The good book isn't that good.

But the Good Book sure is. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 14, 2015, 04:10:34 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 14, 2015, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:57:51 PM
A good book or the good book?

The good book isn't that good.

But the Good Book sure is. :)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/372/dp/0747599602

:hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 04:11:33 PM
Don't forget The Good Argument.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on September 14, 2015, 04:58:47 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 14, 2015, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 14, 2015, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2015, 03:57:51 PM
A good book or the good book?

The good book isn't that good.

But the Good Book sure is. :)

It gets a 4.2 rating on Amazon. That's just slightly better than Mein Kampf. :P

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Holy-Bible-King-James-Version/dp/000725976X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1442267878&sr=1-2&keywords=bible
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 07:49:09 PM
QuoteSo far, I had encountered the Social Democratic Party only as a spectator at a few mass demonstrations without gaining any insight into the mind-set of its supporters or the nature of its doctrine. Now, at one moment, I met face-to-face with the results of its training and who supported its "World-Concept ". In the course of a few months, I learned something that otherwise may have taken years—an understanding of a disease masquerading as social virtue and the love of one's neighbor—a disease which humanity must free the earth from or the earth would soon be freed of humanity.

My first encounter with Social Democrats was on a construction job. It was not a good situation from the very beginning. My clothes were still in good shape, my language was cultivated, and my manner reserved. I had so much to do in dealing with my own Fate that I couldn't trouble myself with the world around me. I was looking for work only to avoid starving and so that I could educate myself no matter how long it took. I might not have paid any attention to my new surroundings if an event on the third or fourth day had not compelled me to immediately adopt a new attitude. I was asked to join the organized union.
:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Martinus on September 14, 2015, 11:47:19 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 07:49:09 PM
QuoteSo far, I had encountered the Social Democratic Party only as a spectator at a few mass demonstrations without gaining any insight into the mind-set of its supporters or the nature of its doctrine. Now, at one moment, I met face-to-face with the results of its training and who supported its "World-Concept ". In the course of a few months, I learned something that otherwise may have taken years—an understanding of a disease masquerading as social virtue and the love of one's neighbor—a disease which humanity must free the earth from or the earth would soon be freed of humanity.

My first encounter with Social Democrats was on a construction job. It was not a good situation from the very beginning. My clothes were still in good shape, my language was cultivated, and my manner reserved. I had so much to do in dealing with my own Fate that I couldn't trouble myself with the world around me. I was looking for work only to avoid starving and so that I could educate myself no matter how long it took. I might not have paid any attention to my new surroundings if an event on the third or fourth day had not compelled me to immediately adopt a new attitude. I was asked to join the organized union.
:lol:

I'm confused - is this from Mein Kampf or the Bible?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 15, 2015, 12:00:02 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 14, 2015, 11:47:19 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 14, 2015, 07:49:09 PM
QuoteSo far, I had encountered the Social Democratic Party only as a spectator at a few mass demonstrations without gaining any insight into the mind-set of its supporters or the nature of its doctrine. Now, at one moment, I met face-to-face with the results of its training and who supported its "World-Concept ". In the course of a few months, I learned something that otherwise may have taken years—an understanding of a disease masquerading as social virtue and the love of one's neighbor—a disease which humanity must free the earth from or the earth would soon be freed of humanity.

My first encounter with Social Democrats was on a construction job. It was not a good situation from the very beginning. My clothes were still in good shape, my language was cultivated, and my manner reserved. I had so much to do in dealing with my own Fate that I couldn't trouble myself with the world around me. I was looking for work only to avoid starving and so that I could educate myself no matter how long it took. I might not have paid any attention to my new surroundings if an event on the third or fourth day had not compelled me to immediately adopt a new attitude. I was asked to join the organized union.
:lol:

I'm confused - is this from Mein Kampf or the Bible?
:D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 15, 2015, 10:27:34 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 14, 2015, 03:37:59 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 14, 2015, 08:19:53 AM
He's the guy with the "ploughing the sea" quote, right? Seems he was of the same opinion.  ;)

I have not yet encountered that quote.

I think he says it near the end of his life. Basically, a statement of dispair.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sim%C3%B3n_Bol%C3%ADvar

QuoteAll who have served the Revolution have plowed the sea.

Statement written in his final days, as quoted in Simón Bolívar : A Story of Courage (1941) by Elizabeth Dey Jenkinson Waugh, p. 320; These are sometimes said to have been repeated many times while he was dying, and to be his last words.
Variant translations or reports:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 15, 2015, 10:30:59 AM
I tried to read Mein Kampf once, basically to get some insight into Hitler. For a charismatic mass murdering dictator famous for his ability to motivate ordinary people into committing henous acts, I found him - terribly boring.  :(

Maybe he's more inspiring in the original German. The only thing this book did was nearly *bore* me to death.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on September 15, 2015, 10:40:00 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 15, 2015, 10:30:59 AM
I tried to read Mein Kampf once, basically to get some insight into Hitler. For a charismatic mass murdering dictator famous for his ability to motivate ordinary people into committing henous acts, I found him - terribly boring.  :(

Maybe he's more inspiring in the original German. The only thing this book did was nearly *bore* me to death.

No this book was notoriously hard to read for the members of the SS for whom it was mandatory. No wonder they became genocidal monsters afterwards.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 15, 2015, 02:03:15 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 15, 2015, 10:30:59 AM
I tried to read Mein Kampf once, basically to get some insight into Hitler. For a charismatic mass murdering dictator famous for his ability to motivate ordinary people into committing henous acts, I found him - terribly boring.  :(

Maybe he's more inspiring in the original German. The only thing this book did was nearly *bore* me to death.

It is a blathering twisted view, particularly when it comes to Jewish people at that time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Hamilcar on September 16, 2015, 07:56:55 AM
Just finished Kingkiller Chronicle 1 and 2.... anyone else read this series?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 21, 2015, 01:57:47 AM
 Inside ISIS by Benjamin Hall
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on September 21, 2015, 09:00:56 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on September 16, 2015, 07:56:55 AM
Just finished Kingkiller Chronicle 1 and 2.... anyone else read this series?

Sounds interesting. I will add it to the list.

I just finished all of Abercrombie's First Law world books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 22, 2015, 04:03:29 PM
This awesome book appears to be awesome:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Restore-Japan-devote-Japanese-soldiers-ebook/dp/B00W4XSNE6/ref=sr_1_115?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1442955438&sr=1-115&keywords=japan+history#reader_B00W4XSNE6

Quote from: Title
Restore Japan, Nippon! Yamato, rise! The sun also rises. I devote these essays to the Japanese soldiers who fought with super human will and power

Quote from: Book descriptionThese essays are for foreigners who want to know about Japan.
The author thinks Japan is a country that can be a positive influence on foreign countries. He believes that spreading the Japanese spirit contributes to world peace. Then what is the spirit?
It comprises courage, sincerity, industry, public service, self-sacrifice, obeying the law and cleanliness.
The presence of Japan itself could be a role model of the people in the world. A strong economy, great technology, universalized sense of beauty, stable society, and a high-leveled morale are Japanese assets.
It is a Japanese mission to bring the Japanese spirit to the world.
And this could bring world peace. The author hopes many people can get the right information about Japan through these essays.
The aim of these essays is to tell people around the world about Japanese civilization. What is Japan? What is the Japanese mission? These essays are compiled with this problem in mind. What is the core of Japan?
In his studies the author has found that the core of Japan is the Imperial House system. Japan has the oldest reining dynasty in the world. There is only one Emperor in the world.
Japan is a country with Shinto deities.
Japan will fascinate the world through her cultural power.
The author thinks the 21st century is the time for us Japanese to get back to our ethnic origins. He truly believes their future is there.
Restore Japan! Yamato, rise! The sun also rises.

* About the author
Taguchi Tetsuyuki, Zushi Ironman, was born April 3, 1954.
He is from Nagasaki City, graduated Nagasaki Kita(North)Senior High School, and received a Bachelor of Arts from Waseda University.
He now works as a government-licensed tour guide (English, Kanagawa EN01269). His life's calling is to be a missionary of Japanese history and culture. He would like to be a grassroots diplomat.
He wants to be good at both liberal and military arts.
He has two black belts, in Judo and Jujutsu (Yagyu Shingan-ryu Taijutsu) plus he has practiced Karate and Aikido.
He loves the ocean. He enjoys kayaking near the Emperor's villa.
His lifetime passion is to be a Haiku Poet, Scholar and Samurai Warrior.

I haven't read it yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 23, 2015, 11:06:14 AM
Did anyone read the Cambridge History of Japan? Any good? Any particular volumes/areas better than others?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 05, 2015, 01:17:26 AM
When I was a teen I read a lot of fiction about stone age hunter gatherers, anything interesting in that genre come out in the last fifteen years? Anything from hard core historical fiction to pulp fantasy with dinosaurs and shamanic magic is fine by me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 05, 2015, 04:51:50 PM
Reading Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar by Simon Montefiore. Very interesting, I, Claudius-like account of the inner workings of the Soviet system under its worst monster.

Favorite anecdote: during the Great Terror, Soviet high officials anxiously noted who the accused were accused of wanting to assassinate (it was always Stalin, plus a list of other Soviet notables). The reason: being on the list of purported "victims" was an infallible guide to the otherwise-inscruitable workings of Stalinist favoritism. If there was a big show trial on, and you were not on 'the list', you were out of favour ... and, often, soon to be in the dock yourself!

The "balls of brass, brain of air" award goes to the 40 year old guy who attempted to seduce Stalin's daughter, Svetlana, when she was 16 (when Stalin found out, he got 10 years slave labour ... and was damn lucky!).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 06, 2015, 04:59:59 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 05, 2015, 01:17:26 AM
When I was a teen I read a lot of fiction about stone age hunter gatherers, anything interesting in that genre come out in the last fifteen years? Anything from hard core historical fiction to pulp fantasy with dinosaurs and shamanic magic is fine by me.

I guess you've read this series already? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clan_of_the_Cave_Bear (It's the only one I know on that topic)

Edit: this may help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Novels_set_in_prehistory
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 06, 2015, 05:19:55 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2015, 04:59:59 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 05, 2015, 01:17:26 AM
When I was a teen I read a lot of fiction about stone age hunter gatherers, anything interesting in that genre come out in the last fifteen years? Anything from hard core historical fiction to pulp fantasy with dinosaurs and shamanic magic is fine by me.

I guess you've read this series already? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clan_of_the_Cave_Bear (It's the only one I know on that topic)

Edit: this may help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Novels_set_in_prehistory

Yeah, first three/four are pretty good, but it's down hill from there.

Will definitely check out the list.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Berkut on October 09, 2015, 01:51:13 PM
Been listening to this on Audible during my commute:

Our Mathematical Universe: My Quest for the Ultimate Nature of Reality
http://www.amazon.com/Our-Mathematical-Universe-Ultimate-Reality/dp/0307744256/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1444416522&sr=8-1&keywords=tegmark

It is really, really interesting - both as a pretty good "advanced amateur" level insight into some cutting edge modern physics and cosmology, and as a kind of a personal "my life as a physicist" sort of thing.

Some very interesting science in their - not sure I agree with his conclusions (pretty sure I don't actually, but reserve the right to recognize that I am grossly unqualified to really have an opinion), but the thinking behind it all, and the history of the science is, IMO, incredibly fascinating.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 13, 2015, 02:23:06 AM
I've never paid much attention to Warhammer, least of all the novels, because the setting is so silly and cranked up to 11ty-11, I don't see how it can work as a setting for a proper story.

Someone on EUOT suggested the Ciaphas Cain books as a good jumping on point, and I picked up the first one as eBook (For the Emperor). I'm in chapter 1, but basically this is Flashman/Blackadder in WH40K, no? (Not complaining - I think this is a way you can make it work.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 18, 2015, 12:25:11 PM
Anyone can recommend a great book on the history of India? I'm primarily interested in ancient times to say 16th century (I want to read about Indians, not about white folks).

I've never really read about the history of India, and I don't think I'm interested enough for a multi-volume work.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 02, 2015, 02:26:01 PM
So as part of my new phone, I get to pick one free book out of 5 for the next 6 months or maybe 12. First choice was Wizard's First Rule by Terry Goodkind. Was fantasy so hard up in the early 90s that this dreck netted the author such acclaim/monies? So far it reads like a primer in how to write a clunky, ham fisted and ridiculous plot. If I were reading a paperback, I'd have wanted to throw it against the wall when [spoiler]angry villagers are dispersed when they think their penises have been magicked away... [/spoiler]
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on November 02, 2015, 05:56:19 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 02, 2015, 02:26:01 PM
So as part of my new phone, I get to pick one free book out of 5 for the next 6 months or maybe 12. First choice was Wizard's First Rule by Terry Goodkind. Was fantasy so hard up in the early 90s that this dreck netted the author such acclaim/monies? So far it reads like a primer in how to write a clunky, ham fisted and ridiculous plot. If I were reading a paperback, I'd have wanted to throw it against the wall when [spoiler]angry villagers are dispersed when they think their penises have been magicked away... [/spoiler]

Mrs B was into that series (which is odd because she's not a huge fantasy fan in general) so I tried reading it.  Was not good at all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 02, 2015, 06:39:56 PM
I keep turning pages hoping it'll get better and it does not. :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on November 02, 2015, 07:25:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 02, 2015, 02:26:01 PM
So as part of my new phone, I get to pick one free book out of 5 for the next 6 months or maybe 12. First choice was Wizard's First Rule by Terry Goodkind. Was fantasy so hard up in the early 90s that this dreck netted the author such acclaim/monies? So far it reads like a primer in how to write a clunky, ham fisted and ridiculous plot. If I were reading a paperback, I'd have wanted to throw it against the wall when [spoiler]angry villagers are dispersed when they think their penises have been magicked away... [/spoiler]

Weren't you an Ayn Rand fan back then?  Goodkind was also a big fan.  When you aim low, you hit low.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 02, 2015, 08:25:14 PM
Me? I read one Ayn Rand book so I could apply for some free scholarship money. So, the answer would be no. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on November 10, 2015, 01:16:05 AM
It's out.

http://www.rzm.com/books/ab/ab5252.cfm

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rzm.com%2Fbooks%2Fab%2Fab5252.jpg&hash=f0a5281d829c4d0394270cb2d0f1d61e26ab1276)


Holy shit

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rzm.com%2Fbooks%2Fab%2Fab5252a.jpg&hash=a986adb1964cec0af1f8cf1d4cc87d6607e83378)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2015, 01:47:06 AM
Reminds me of the parody Strategy & Tactics did one time about the world's largest wargame, currently in development: Battle of the Bulge at the individual level, with each counter given the person's correct name.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 10, 2015, 01:52:24 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 13, 2015, 02:23:06 AM
I've never paid much attention to Warhammer, least of all the novels, because the setting is so silly and cranked up to 11ty-11, I don't see how it can work as a setting for a proper story.

Someone on EUOT suggested the Ciaphas Cain books as a good jumping on point, and I picked up the first one as eBook (For the Emperor). I'm in chapter 1, but basically this is Flashman/Blackadder in WH40K, no? (Not complaining - I think this is a way you can make it work.)

That's exactly what it is, though Cain is more of a Blackadderesque Cowardly Lion (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CowardlyLion) than Flashman IMHO.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 10, 2015, 02:06:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 02, 2015, 07:25:46 PM
Weren't you an Ayn Rand fan back then?  Goodkind was also a big fan.  When you aim low, you hit low.

He was an Anne Rice fan, that good enough?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on November 10, 2015, 02:48:44 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 10, 2015, 02:06:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 02, 2015, 07:25:46 PM
Weren't you an Ayn Rand fan back then?  Goodkind was also a big fan.  When you aim low, you hit low.

He was an Anne Rice fan, that good enough?

I distinctly remember him saying he thought she "pissed lemonade" when he was younger, which I understood he was favorably inclined at one time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2015, 05:23:12 AM
I have never used that phrase* in my life. Nice try though, bro. :mellow:

*And admittedly have not even heard that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 10, 2015, 05:32:52 AM
Anyway, Goodkind's main problem is not his politics. It's that he can't write for shit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2015, 05:40:16 AM
Yeah. He basically seems to make every mistake that basic writers are cautioned against. But I guess the early 90s was a more innocent time. :hmm:

I have continued to read Wizard's First Rule and it does not get any better. I need to hurry up and get a new book on my kindle. -_-
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on November 10, 2015, 07:00:46 AM
Still intending to read a 2nd book this year. :smarty:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 10, 2015, 07:08:32 AM
Quote from: mongers on November 10, 2015, 07:00:46 AM
Still intending to read a 2nd book this year. :smarty:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bookedparties.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F09%2F9780140569322.jpg&hash=acd3bb1e68503827f13e6711debe249552ec7b5f)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on November 10, 2015, 10:40:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2015, 05:23:12 AM
I have never used that phrase* in my life. Nice try though, bro. :mellow:

*And admittedly have not even heard that.

Must have been the other gay black Republican.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2015, 10:53:38 AM
I think there is probably an easier explanation and it involves you not having as great a memory as you think. :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2015, 06:15:58 PM
Oh, Raz, you'll need to update the descriptor. Today, I finally mailed off my paper work to rejoin the Democratic Party. :yeah:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on November 10, 2015, 07:56:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2015, 06:15:58 PM
Oh, Raz, you'll need to update the descriptor. Today, I finally mailed off my paper work to rejoin the Democratic Party. :yeah:

Disgusting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2015, 08:10:52 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 10, 2015, 07:56:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2015, 06:15:58 PM
Oh, Raz, you'll need to update the descriptor. Today, I finally mailed off my paper work to rejoin the Democratic Party. :yeah:

Disgusting.

True. Many Republicans would say that about what they would call 'my chosen lifestyle.' -_-
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 10, 2015, 09:20:30 PM
It's unpatriotic. :yes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on November 10, 2015, 10:05:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2015, 10:53:38 AM
I think there is probably an easier explanation and it involves you not having as great a memory as you think. :(

If you had said that, would you actually admit to it?  For the record please post 10 other things you wouldn't admit to on Languish.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 10, 2015, 10:57:22 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 10, 2015, 10:05:07 PM
If you had said that, would you actually admit to it?  For the record please post 10 other things you wouldn't admit to on Languish.

I wouldn't admit to having shot Kennedy. :whistle:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 11, 2015, 03:11:13 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 10, 2015, 10:05:07 PM
If you had said that, would you actually admit to it?

In a bizarro world where I like Ayn Rand and said she pissed lemonade, sure, why not?

Quote from: Razgovory on November 10, 2015, 10:05:07 PMFor the record please post 10 other things you wouldn't admit to on Languish.

Honey, that doesn't even make any sense. :console:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on November 12, 2015, 07:54:14 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 10, 2015, 07:56:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2015, 06:15:58 PM
Oh, Raz, you'll need to update the descriptor. Today, I finally mailed off my paper work to rejoin the Democratic Party. :yeah:

Disgusting.

I would vote for a non-disgusting party but that would involve throwing my vote away :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on November 12, 2015, 09:28:48 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 12, 2015, 07:54:14 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 10, 2015, 07:56:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2015, 06:15:58 PM
Oh, Raz, you'll need to update the descriptor. Today, I finally mailed off my paper work to rejoin the Democratic Party. :yeah:

Disgusting.

I would vote for a non-disgusting party but that would involve throwing my vote away :(

Just as long as you vote for a man.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 12, 2015, 09:32:20 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 12, 2015, 09:28:48 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 12, 2015, 07:54:14 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 10, 2015, 07:56:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2015, 06:15:58 PM
Oh, Raz, you'll need to update the descriptor. Today, I finally mailed off my paper work to rejoin the Democratic Party. :yeah:

Disgusting.

I would vote for a non-disgusting party but that would involve throwing my vote away :(

Just as long as you vote for a man.

But that would involve throwing his vote away.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on November 12, 2015, 09:35:14 AM
Well he has got you there Ed
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on November 12, 2015, 09:36:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 12, 2015, 09:35:14 AM
Well he has got you there Ed

:cry:

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 12, 2015, 09:45:48 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 12, 2015, 09:32:20 AM
But that would involve throwing his vote away.

I don't share your confidence in Fiorina.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: barkdreg on November 12, 2015, 09:53:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 13, 2015, 02:23:06 AM
I've never paid much attention to Warhammer, least of all the novels, because the setting is so silly and cranked up to 11ty-11, I don't see how it can work as a setting for a proper story.

Someone on EUOT suggested the Ciaphas Cain books as a good jumping on point, and I picked up the first one as eBook (For the Emperor). I'm in chapter 1, but basically this is Flashman/Blackadder in WH40K, no? (Not complaining - I think this is a way you can make it work.)

The Genevieve trilogy is quite good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 14, 2015, 01:35:44 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 10, 2015, 07:56:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2015, 06:15:58 PM
Oh, Raz, you'll need to update the descriptor. Today, I finally mailed off my paper work to rejoin the Democratic Party. :yeah:

Disgusting.

Well, worry not, Ed. In their infinite wisdom, Royal Mail decided that when I paid the increased postage for transatlantic mail (as well as put their air mail label on it), that I probably just wanted to send the letter to my return address. Air mail prices to send myself a letter from Mayfair to Islington. <_<

So for now, still a Republican.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on November 19, 2015, 10:53:46 PM
Haha

The first book arrived. Objective Ponyri: The Defeat of XXXXI. Panxerkorps at Ponyri Train station.

It's only about 177 pages in a very quality layout. It focuses on one of the two decisive engagements (Ponyri, the other Olkhovatka) on the ignored northern salient operation of 9th Army. High quality actual german aerial recon photos at the time of the operation. Layed out in a nice coffee table book format. Just wonderful.

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12243104_10207755871005963_3161339683656861670_n.jpg?oh=a489cd0538cfb10b1f7ce226c86ba485&oe=56B54981)

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/12248130_10207755871525976_4994915248128016565_o.jpg)

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/12232863_10207755872085990_583619702598163499_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on November 19, 2015, 10:58:21 PM
And they call me crazy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on November 19, 2015, 11:01:31 PM
I thought about getting that Kursk book but then I rememered Kursk is boring.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on November 28, 2015, 04:05:13 PM
It's here :yeah:
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/t31.0-8/12314535_10207804322617223_4183068140069865749_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)


Oh for Pete's sake. :lol:

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/12291664_10207804324857279_6678030092391843687_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 28, 2015, 04:57:27 PM
Wouldn't have expected the country kitchen place mat.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on November 28, 2015, 05:06:31 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 28, 2015, 04:57:27 PM
Wouldn't have expected the country kitchen place mat.
:lol:

Well, we're not savages here, you know.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: dps on November 28, 2015, 05:16:58 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 28, 2015, 04:57:27 PM
Wouldn't have expected the country kitchen place mat.

No one expects the country kitchen place mat.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on December 01, 2015, 07:07:53 PM
I finally finished reading Le Comte de Monte-Cristo.  It was even better than the sandwich.   :)

;)

I had read the story (in translation) when I was a young teenager; then I liked all the daring swashbuckling.  This time through I was struck by the moral complexity of the novel.  The question is raised on a couple occasions if Dante's revenge is at all just; and Dante himself seems to doubt it (briefly) after de Villefort is driven mad through Dante's machinations.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 01, 2015, 07:10:29 PM
Have you read Les Trois Mousquetaires (sp?)?  I managed to follow along pretty well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on December 01, 2015, 07:12:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 19, 2015, 11:01:31 PM
I thought about getting that Kursk book but then I rememered Kursk is boring.

Well judging from the photo, all the text inside is in gibberish.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on December 01, 2015, 07:15:26 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 01, 2015, 07:10:29 PM
Have you read Les Trois Mousquetaires (sp?)?  I managed to follow along pretty well.

Yes, Les Trois Mousquetaires is a good place to start for the French student since the prose isn't difficult and (for Dumas) it's short.  Jules Verne is similar.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 03, 2015, 01:57:35 PM
Drew Karpyshyn. Senior writer for Knights of the Old Republic and the first two Mass Effect games. He's worked on Baldur's Gate II and Jade Empire.

Pretty decent credentials.

Why, then, are his novels so aweful? I got the Mass Effect books when I was mildly obsessed with the first game and waited for the second. I couldn't make it through the first 100 pages, because the characters were one dimensional, acted stupid, and I can't stand his style. He uses a lot of constructions of the type, "The character did this, doing some else besides." His characters rarely just say something, they joke, admit, accuse, wheeze, mutter, counter, growl, or explain. When they actually DO say something, they do it thoughtfully, with a grim tone, with trembling voice, but in extreme cases they will be exclaiming angrily.

So, yeah, I tossed those books into a corner. I guess I would blame the editor who didn't stop this nonsense more than the writer himself.

Then I saw that he's written Star Wars Old Republic books. And I thought, "Well, maybe he's gotten better." Spoiler: he hasn't.

Star Wars: Revan. It starts with: "Revan's eyes snapped open, the primal fury of his nightmare wrenching him awake for the third night in a row." I sighed, hoping that this would be a one off.

Third paragraph, same page still: "A sense of calm settled over him, washing away the irrational terror of his dream."

And so it continues, shoddily. Before the five page chapter is out, Bastila and Revan will have suggested, echoed, insisted, whispered, cut off, assured each other. The book then goes on to introduce Lord Scourge, a Sith who can become a companion for the Jedi Knight in SWTOR. We're told he's a skilled warrior, was top of his class in the academy, and is quickly rising in the Sith ranks. He's been asked to Dromund Kaas to investigate attacks on Darth Nyriss, a member of the Dark Council.

A servant picks him up at the space port. He sees the servant talk to some shady mercenaries. Later, at the estate of the Council member, these mercenaries ambush him, while Dath Nyriss's guards have disappeared. When the last merc is about to say who they were hired by, he's killed by the guard who has returned. Lord Scourge wonders if the jealous guard hired the mercs to get rid of him, and is completely and utterly surprised to learn that Darth Nyriss hired them to test his strength. The idea hadn't even entered his mind:

"You were right about the mercenaries, but I already know who hired them to try to kill you."
"Who?"
"Me."
"You?" Scourge exclaimed. Her admission had caught him off guard.
"After the second assassination attempt, Murtog and Sechel found a lead. I hired those mercenaries to follow up on it. But before they could, the Emperor decided to interfere, forcing me to bring you in. Your arrival left me with an excess of outside agents, so I told Sechel to instruct the mercenaries to try to take you out of the picture. Consider it a test."
"Of course," Scourge muttered, silently cursing himself for being so shortsighted.

And he continues to blunder around like that.

I made it about 25% into the book before I couldn't stand it anymore.

Yes, it's genre literature, and I adjust my expectations to that. But excuse me for expecting something that's of better quality than amateur fan fiction (no offense towards fan writers, some of whom I presume are quite good and better than this.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 04, 2015, 03:00:11 PM
Just bought the new Niall Ferguson book on Kissinger.  Also bought the first two volumes of Caro's LBJ for my mom, which I plan to read when she's done with them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 03:39:05 PM
I made the same mistake you did Syt.

I thought 'well I love the dialog Gaider and Karpyshyn write. I bet I would enjoy their books as well.'

As it turns out being a great video game writer and being an author do not map 1:1.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 04, 2015, 08:39:13 PM
Reading Glantz's;

Red Storm over the Balkans. Spring of 1944.

or aka

Exposing the Cover-up of the Soviet failed offensive into Romania Spring of 1944.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2015, 02:15:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 04, 2015, 03:00:11 PM
Just bought the new Niall Ferguson book on Kissinger.

Soon after Heinz submitted his senior thesis, Harvard instituted a rule that no senior thesis could exceed 140 pages.  Kissinger's was 388.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 07, 2015, 08:56:26 PM
Reading Daglish's Goodwood, Epsom, and Bluecoat books.

Very well written and flows nicely.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on December 08, 2015, 03:17:25 PM
Read a book entitled The Woman Who Would Be King, a bio of Egyptian "King" Hatshepsut, and "his" glorious, cross-dressing, incestuous career as a female "king".  :D In ancient Egypt, there was no word for "queen" - only "king's wife". So when Hatshepsut took the throne herself, on the death of her brother-husband, she used the male title - and gradually assumed the male gender, in her depictions at least. 

One interesting part was how she very gradually changed her iconography - from fully female, through a woman wearing a man's crown, to a woman wearing an entirely male outfit, to a woman wearing a male outfit and sporting a beard (but still having boobs), to a completely male image - outfit, beard, no boobs and all.

Allegedly, the colours chosen to paint her image went through the same metamorphosis--in ancient Egypt, women were painted yellow, men were painted red: she went from yellow, though a unique orange, to red.

Despite becoming, in iconography, a "man", she retained the feminine name and grammar in inscriptions about her, oddly enough.

Another oddity: she ended up "marrying" her own daughter, at least for ritual purposes (the daughter also took on the role of "God's wife of Amun" that Hatshepsut had held prior to becoming King. Oddly, the rituals associated with that role involved - getting naked, playing a rattle while dancing, and masturbating a statue of the God Amun (his orgasm is supposed to re-create the universe). You won't see that one in Church these days.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on December 08, 2015, 03:19:22 PM
Masturbating with your mom? Ewwwww.

I would skip church that day.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on December 08, 2015, 03:23:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 08, 2015, 03:19:22 PM
Masturbating with your mom? Ewwwww.

I would skip church that day.

No - just married to mom. The masturbation is of the God Amun (allegedly, in the private recesses of the sanctuary). It was evidently all the thing to have the king's wife (and only the king's wife) assume also the title "God's Wife of Amun", so Hatshepsut - who apparently wanted her daughter to assume her powers - had to marry her daughter to "the king", namely herself.

Evidently Egyptian kings were flattered by having their wives married to the God at the same time.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on December 08, 2015, 03:38:10 PM
Oh wait so King Mom had her daughter go and ritualistically rub a statue's phallus or something? Well hell that probably happens in churches all over America. You know how those Jesus Freaks get.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on December 08, 2015, 03:40:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 08, 2015, 03:38:10 PM
Oh wait so King Mom had her daughter go and ritualistically rub a statue's phallus or something? Well hell that probably happens in churches all over America. You know how those Jesus Freaks get.

I think they were supposed to do a striptease while shaking a taborine-like instrument first, but yes.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on December 08, 2015, 03:58:37 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 08, 2015, 03:17:25 PM
Read a book entitled The Woman Who Would Be King, a bio of Egyptian "King" Hatshepsut, and "his" glorious, cross-dressing, incestuous career as a female "king".  :D In ancient Egypt, there was no word for "queen" - only "king's wife". So when Hatshepsut took the throne herself, on the death of her brother-husband, she used the male title - and gradually assumed the male gender, in her depictions at least. 

One interesting part was how she very gradually changed her iconography - from fully female, through a woman wearing a man's crown, to a woman wearing an entirely male outfit, to a woman wearing a male outfit and sporting a beard (but still having boobs), to a completely male image - outfit, beard, no boobs and all.

Allegedly, the colours chosen to paint her image went through the same metamorphosis--in ancient Egypt, women were painted yellow, men were painted red: she went from yellow, though a unique orange, to red.

Despite becoming, in iconography, a "man", she retained the feminine name and grammar in inscriptions about her, oddly enough.

Another oddity: she ended up "marrying" her own daughter, at least for ritual purposes (the daughter also took on the role of "God's wife of Amun" that Hatshepsut had held prior to becoming King. Oddly, the rituals associated with that role involved - getting naked, playing a rattle while dancing, and masturbating a statue of the God Amun (his orgasm is supposed to re-create the universe). You won't see that one in Church these days.  :D

Give me that old time religion
give me that old time religion
Give me that old time religion
It's good enough for me


Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on December 09, 2015, 03:49:57 AM
Quote from: Malthus on December 08, 2015, 03:17:25 PM
Read a book entitled The Woman Who Would Be King, a bio of Egyptian "King" Hatshepsut, and "his" glorious, cross-dressing, incestuous career as a female "king".  :D In ancient Egypt, there was no word for "queen" - only "king's wife". So when Hatshepsut took the throne herself, on the death of her brother-husband, she used the male title - and gradually assumed the male gender, in her depictions at least. 

One interesting part was how she very gradually changed her iconography - from fully female, through a woman wearing a man's crown, to a woman wearing an entirely male outfit, to a woman wearing a male outfit and sporting a beard (but still having boobs), to a completely male image - outfit, beard, no boobs and all.

Allegedly, the colours chosen to paint her image went through the same metamorphosis--in ancient Egypt, women were painted yellow, men were painted red: she went from yellow, though a unique orange, to red.

Despite becoming, in iconography, a "man", she retained the feminine name and grammar in inscriptions about her, oddly enough.

Another oddity: she ended up "marrying" her own daughter, at least for ritual purposes (the daughter also took on the role of "God's wife of Amun" that Hatshepsut had held prior to becoming King. Oddly, the rituals associated with that role involved - getting naked, playing a rattle while dancing, and masturbating a statue of the God Amun (his orgasm is supposed to re-create the universe). You won't see that one in Church these days.  :D
Kara Cooney! :wub:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on December 09, 2015, 09:06:52 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on December 09, 2015, 03:49:57 AM

Kara Cooney! :wub:

World's hottest Egyptologist.

Except in Egypt itself, where Zahi Hawass awarded himself that title.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 09, 2015, 09:14:40 AM
Quote from: Malthus on December 09, 2015, 09:06:52 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on December 09, 2015, 03:49:57 AM

Kara Cooney! :wub:

World's hottest Egyptologist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS0uOXfVhzI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS0uOXfVhzI)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on December 10, 2015, 07:12:22 PM
I picked up the novel Flashman (several posters have mentioned that the series is excellent), and the series is excellent.  It's a sign of a good author that you find yourself rooting for a totally deplorable character.  After this I'll probably read up on the First Anglo-Afghan war.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 10, 2015, 07:53:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 10, 2015, 07:12:22 PM
I picked up the novel Flashman (several posters have mentioned that the series is excellent), and the series is excellent.  It's a sign of a good author that you find yourself rooting for a totally deplorable character.  After this I'll probably read up on the First Anglo-Afghan war.

The coverage in "Queen Victoria's Little Wars" didn't go much further than Flashman.  One of the great things about Flashman is that you are told in the footnotes where he deviates from history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on December 16, 2015, 03:54:38 PM
I was reading "Washington's Spies" (the book on which the TV series "Turn" was based), and I came across this account - written to Washington by a spy, excusing his own failure in an incident that, alas, is forever lost to history:

"I had gone through all those dangers that awaited me in getting a regular plan laid, and was beginning to carry it on with every appearance of success, but the Jersey man fell in love with his horse, the doctor narrowly escaped with his life, and the whole scheme was frustrated".

The author's comment: "the mind boggles".  :lol:

Will this show up in season 3 of Turn?  It is hilarious to imagine what this sentence refers to. Was the "Jersey man" an American ancestor of the Brain, perhaps?  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 16, 2015, 03:58:05 PM
Shore why not.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 17, 2015, 03:50:25 AM
Quote from: The Brain on December 16, 2015, 03:58:05 PM
Shore why not.

:D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 20, 2015, 06:57:36 PM
In a review in the NYT on a handful of books discussing income inequality, I came across the rather surprising quote "income inequality is not necessarily a bad thing."  It's from Thomas Pinketty.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on December 20, 2015, 09:07:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 20, 2015, 06:57:36 PM
In a review in the NYT on a handful of books discussing income inequality, I came across the rather surprising quote "income inequality is not necessarily a bad thing."  It's from Thomas Pinketty.

Why is this surprising to you?  His point is that the degree of income inequality and lack of social mobility is a bad thing. He does not argue that everyone should earn the same amount.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 22, 2015, 11:30:30 AM
There is a lot of commentary about Piketty's book but a lot less actual reading of its contents.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 28, 2015, 02:01:39 AM
Anyone read This Gulf of Fire: The Destruction of Lisbon? Every review I see is overflowing in praise.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/27/the-earthquake-that-brought-an-empire-to-its-knees.html
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 28, 2015, 12:24:12 PM
I've finally finished Star Wars - Aftermath. As mentioned earlier, the style will put off many. The story is an enjoyable enough yarn - after the battle of Endor, Imperial big wigs (a general, an admiral who also commands the last Super Star Destroyer, an adviser of Palpatine's, a Moff, a banker, and the local ruler) meet in the Outer Rim to discuss how to move on. They put the planet on lockdown. Unfortunately a few people wander in on them - a Zabrak bounty hunter who chased one of the attendants of the meeting, a washed out former Imperial Commissar Loyalty Officer, a young adult running a scrap shop (who is supposed to be Wexley, the big bearded pilot in Ep. VII) and his repurposed battle droid (now a mildly psychotic killer machine), and his Rebel pilot mother who took personal leave to try and mend the relationship with her son who she left behind when she joined the Alliance. Hijinks ensue leading to a small space battle and an uprising on the planet. On top of that, the book has "interludes," short scenes from around the galaxy - the aftermath of a battle, a family squabble over Empire and Republic over dinner, a protestor against the Republic complaining about how the Republic came in, kicked the Imps, broke a lot of stuff and then left, or what happened to war ophans from Coruscant who helped the underground fighters on the planet to name a few. It helps paint a picture of a galaxy at the crossroads.

It also sets up interesting story threads - the New Republic needs to find out what the remnant Imps are up to. The admiral, after getting rid of the other officials at the meeting returns to her commanding officer, another admiral who's left rather vague, but it's implied that he's a brilliant strategist, cultured, well mannered etc. Sounds like a Thrawn type character, though I'm placing my bets on it being General Hux' father.

The story is also noticeable for probably being the first to introduce openly homosexual characters in Star Wars canon. It's handled very incidental, though, and it's not a defining trait of their characters: one character's sister is married to another woman. And one character is outed about 3/4 into the book as gay (a female character comes on to him and he explains that he's not into women). I like when characters who are not straight white males are not reduced to their being different (colored, female, gay, alien ...) but rather are well rounded characters, where this is just one aspect of their personality. I think this chimes well with the universe of Episode VII (the Resistance easily wins the Diversity in the Workplace Award, and I wouldn't really be surprised if a character would turn out to be gay).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on December 28, 2015, 01:34:25 PM
Currently reading The Invention of Nature: Alexander Von Humboldt's New World by Andrea Wulf, all about the life, travels and discoveries of the German scientist. Very entertaining so far.

Odd footnote: Humboldt hung out with Goethe and, allegedly, influenced the latter's characterization of Faust.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 28, 2015, 01:41:47 PM
I detect a strong gay current.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on December 28, 2015, 11:22:12 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 28, 2015, 01:34:25 PM
Currently reading The Invention of Nature: Alexander Von Humboldt's New World by Andrea Wulf, all about the life, travels and discoveries of the German scientist. Very entertaining so far.

Odd footnote: Humboldt hung out with Goethe and, allegedly, influenced the latter's characterization of Faust.  :D

Thanks for the tip, I've always wanted to read up on him.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on December 28, 2015, 11:43:20 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2Fbooks_zps39lrnhvr.jpg&hash=8b62281df80c1d59f4e720ae8e2a6ffd2210a8c6) (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/Habbaku/media/books_zps39lrnhvr.jpg.html)

Christmas acquisitions, at least in part.

Already finished The Hedge Knight trade and A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.  Off to Dan Jones' work, now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on December 29, 2015, 07:03:22 PM
That book of Dan Jones is a bit disappointing after his earlier work.

I got a book on wars between France and England - 1789 to 1815 as well as the Grace Jones biography.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 08, 2016, 08:23:57 PM
Quote

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/anger-as-first-mein-kampf/2410910.html


MUNICH: New copies of Hitler's "Mein Kampf" hit bookstores in Germany Friday (Jan 8) for the first time since World War II, unsettling some Jewish community leaders, as the copyright of the anti-Semitic manifesto expires.

Bavaria was handed the copyright of the book in 1945, when the Allies gave it control of the main Nazi publishing house following Hitler's defeat. For 70 years, it refused to allow the inflammatory tract to be republished out of respect for victims of the Nazis and to prevent incitement of hatred.

It comes in audio book format too. :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 09, 2016, 02:50:06 AM
It comes as a limited edition, I think, and it's heavily annotated by historians. Price is EUR 59.-

Skinheads and neo-nazis who want the book probably bought bootleg copies of the book long ago.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 12, 2016, 12:32:08 PM
I've been reading some books by Emmanuel Todd lately (NOT the Charlie Hebdo one) - it's fun see to watch as he drops provocative lines as a casual aside to some other point.  For example, the following lines are contained in "Le rendez-vous des civilizations" in his discussion of endogamy in the Arab world:   

QuoteEndogamy softens the complex interpersonal connections entailed by an extended family system.  The daughter-in-law is no longer a stranger to be persecuted by her mother-in-law (as in all exogamous models) or raped by her father-in-law (Russian model).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2016, 02:01:18 PM
Persecuted?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 12, 2016, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 12, 2016, 12:32:08 PM
or raped by her father-in-law (Russian model).

What is Ivan Jr up to while Poppa's raping his wife?  :huh:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 12, 2016, 06:22:14 PM
That passage raised a whole bunch of questions that Todd just breezes by -- the book is about trends in the modern and contemporary Islamic world; it may be that he addresses it elsewhere in his substantial body of work, but it certainly raised my eyebrow.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2016, 06:22:31 PM
Tricking a homo online into meeting him and his buddies in person so they can beat him up. -_-
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 13, 2016, 10:01:24 AM
Just read a very good, very odd graphic novel. No-one I know would possibly be interested in it except my mathematician brother, but maybe some of you nerds would be.

It's The Thrilling Adventures of Lovelace and Babbage--The (Mostly) True Story of the First Computer by Sydney Padua.

It is about the ultimate Victorian odd couple - Lady Ada Lovelace, the only legitimate child of "Mad, Bad and Dangerous to Know" Lord Byron, and Charles Babbage, genius inventor and eccentric (the author describes him as being a cross between Da Vinci and Mr. Toad :lol: ). Babbage invented, but did not build, a mechanical computer made of gears and powered by steam; his friend Lovelace (he described her as his "enchanted fairy of numbers") allegedly wrote the very first software for it.

Their story is odd and enchanting but ends sadly - shortly after writing her paper, Lovelace dies young of cancer; Babbage lives on, but never makes his machine, and dies a cantankerous and disappointed old man. The author goes on to imagine adventures for them in an alternate universe.

The author's method is what makes this so obsessively cool - she literally references everything. Pretty well each line of dialogue in their story is referenced to original sources, such as their correspondence. This continues into their purely imaginary adventures. The pair emerge as fully formed, very appealing characters. Why did Lovelace get into mathematics? Because her mom was terrified that her kid would inherit Lord Byron's "poetical" nature and insanity, and though that math was the antidote! (Later tutors in math grew concerned that Lovelace was growing too interested in math, and would 'overtax her female body'!).

As the author notes, "It's not easy being the daughter of a celebrity mad genius deviant sex god, and Ada was monitored by the entire country, it sometimes seemed, for signs of madness, genius, and deviant sex. She would gratify expectations on all of the above."

There is controversy over Ada's contributions to computing; the author makes a convincing case that these contributions are genuine. It's not often that one it treated to a rollicking read on the history of mathematics ...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 13, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
Quote from: Malthus on January 13, 2016, 10:01:24 AM
It's not often that one it treated to a rollicking read on the history of mathematics ...

Stephenson's Baroque Cycle and Cryptonomicon both have a fair amount of that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 13, 2016, 10:13:48 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 13, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
Quote from: Malthus on January 13, 2016, 10:01:24 AM
It's not often that one it treated to a rollicking read on the history of mathematics ...

Stephenson's Baroque Cycle and Cryptonomicon both have a fair amount of that.

Heh, quite true. I loved both of those as well, and they do indeed have much of that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 13, 2016, 11:23:49 AM
I'm reading Spain: The Centre of the World 1519-1682, by Robert Goodwin.

Quote from: p46... Charles ordered that the lot be salted, in imitation of Julius Caesar's great general Scipio, who had rebel Carthage similarly obliterated.

:unsure:

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on January 13, 2016, 12:11:05 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 13, 2016, 11:23:49 AM
I'm reading Spain: The Centre of the World 1519-1682, by Robert Goodwin.

Quote from: p46... Charles ordered that the lot be salted, in imitation of Julius Caesar's great general Scipio, who had rebel Carthage similarly obliterated.

:unsure:

That is an embarrassing number of mistakes in one sentence.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 13, 2016, 12:44:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 13, 2016, 10:01:24 AM
Babbage invented, but did not build, a mechanical computer made of gears and powered by steam; his friend Lovelace (he described her as his "enchanted fairy of numbers") allegedly wrote the very first software for it.

IIRC at least one of his designs has been built in recent years, and it does work.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on January 13, 2016, 12:57:55 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 08, 2016, 08:23:57 PM
It comes in audio book format too. :lol:

Is it read by the author?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 13, 2016, 01:46:50 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 13, 2016, 12:44:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 13, 2016, 10:01:24 AM
Babbage invented, but did not build, a mechanical computer made of gears and powered by steam; his friend Lovelace (he described her as his "enchanted fairy of numbers") allegedly wrote the very first software for it.

IIRC at least one of his designs has been built in recent years, and it does work.

Yup, they made a copy of his "difference engine", complete with attached printer, which works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Difference_engine

No-one has yet made a copy of his much more elaborate "analytical engine".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytical_Engine

It's the latter that basically has all the functionality we now associate with "computers" (albeit, using gears rather than electronics). From wiki:

QuoteIf the Analytical Engine had been built, it would have been digital, programmable and Turing-complete. It would, however, have been very slow. Luigi Federico Menabrea reported in Sketch of the Analytical Engine: "Mr. Babbage believes he can, by his engine, form the product of two numbers, each containing twenty figures, in three minutes".[34] By comparison the Harvard Mark I could perform the same task in just six seconds. A modern PC can do the same thing in well under a millionth of a second. It should be noted however, that the Analytical Machine was described by Babbage more than one hundred years before any of the aforementioned computational devices and therefore, it is no surprise that it was much slower.

:D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytical_Engine
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 03, 2016, 11:01:13 AM
Read Good to Great, by Jim Collins. Seems weird to me that they were "shocked" to see the impact of "level 5" leaders. What the hell did they expect? Also it would have been interesting to hear how they think their finds relate to what's been written before, for instance Machiavelli writes at length about the difference between a successful prince and a well-ordered republic (which performs well generation after generation).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on February 03, 2016, 11:24:59 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 29, 2015, 07:03:22 PM
That book of Dan Jones is a bit disappointing after his earlier work.

I got a book on wars between France and England - 1789 to 1815 as well as the Grace Jones biography.

That's a shame, I liked the one on the Plantagenets even if it was a bit short on analysis.

Hobe your book on Frogs v Rosbifs isn't the Robert Harvey one. Truly abysmal.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 05, 2016, 05:40:11 AM
I was tempted by Viking's Woman: Historical BBW Warrior Romance, but decided against it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 05, 2016, 05:43:49 AM
That's good. I don't think Viking would be too pleased if you took his woman.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 05, 2016, 06:21:54 AM
Have you considered playing Crusader Kings II instead?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforumcontent.paradoxplaza.com%2Fpublic%2F144523%2F2016-02-04_00002.jpg&hash=8210e6c98a0e484a612d196b7de792e68588af7d)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforumcontent.paradoxplaza.com%2Fpublic%2F144524%2F2016-02-04_00004.jpg&hash=be703571b4376f5f225af82e5e2d03a348dc52bb)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforumcontent.paradoxplaza.com%2Fpublic%2F144525%2F2016-02-04_00005.jpg&hash=638207cb8514c35477323d09e57d1b5716695e13)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 05, 2016, 06:29:42 AM
Cliffs aren't great for horses.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 22, 2016, 01:29:56 PM
Considering Japan: The Intergalactic Japanese Empire Has Been Given a Quintillion Universes in the Future from Jesus Christ.: Japan Will Ply the Universes in Spaceships ... with the Intergalactic Japanese Space Navy., anyone read it? Any good?

From the description on Amazon it seems to be fairly interesting. No reviews yet though so who knows.

QuoteJapan is an Intergalactic empire that spans a quintillion universes with an octillion planets that speak Japanese. I know today that Japan is crowded and too many people live on one island, but when Jesus returns to His people the Japanese, He will give 40%- the middle of Australia to Japan. He knows how crowded Japan is and how tired the people of Japan are with the way the world is. Jesus also will give the Japanese eternal life, so that the people of Japan will never die. Satan had lied to Japan with a false religion, but did you know billions of years ago, before the big bang, Japan was a Christian nation? Jesus was the king of Japan and He is returning as the Master who will give Japan a quintillion universes in the future and an octillion earthlike planets to His people. Also Jesus will bring antigravity vehicles, teleportation around the planet, and from galaxy to galaxy and in the future once this universe collapses, from universe to universe. Jesus will also bring to Japan - the educator machine, a machine that puts memory from a computer directly into your brain. No more school. Jesus will also give Japan a transmutation machine that will change dirt into tomatoes, bananas, or dirt into cars- antigravity cars. Jesus knows all the trouble Japan has had with Satan. It was Satan who led Japan in WWII, and also in a false religion. Jesus was the true King of Japan a billion years ago and He is returning to reclaim His throne. Jesus Christ is God and He can do anything. Nothing is impossible with Him. Jesus has infinite understanding, and infinite knowledge. He is also the King of infinity. Jesus is worshipped as God in infinite multiple universes throughout infinity. He will get rid of the radiation in Japan and give Japan more land. All you have to do is obey Jesus Christ your King and He will give you eternal life. As you know all nations die out and have ceased to exist, but if you obey Jesus - Japan will never die or cease to exist. Proof is that in a googolplex years Japan can read this book and remember these evil times- thats if you want to remember. But Japan will exist forever and ever as The Intergalactic Japanese Empire that spans a quintillion universes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on February 22, 2016, 02:05:05 PM
Jesus.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josquius on February 22, 2016, 04:58:07 PM
And its an entire book written without paragraphs?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 22, 2016, 06:23:04 PM
Still easier to read than Finnegan's Wake.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 26, 2016, 08:52:31 AM
Finished Moby Dick. First time I've read it in English. I love this book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on March 03, 2016, 04:01:55 PM
The Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt:  Interesting account on how imperialism and Antisemitism led to totalitarian regimes in Europe.  She seems to take Hobson's "Imperialism" (also a major inspiration for Lenin) a little too seriously.  Still it's not banal.  I learned that Benjamin Disraeli believed in Jewish world domination conspiracies.  :huh:  What I found most difficult was how she kept describing the nation and the state as separate entities.  Since it's a foreign concept in the United States, I found it a struggle to understand what she meant.

Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil also by Arendt:  It's interesting that this book inspires such controversy as Arendt doesn't provide easy answers in it, and largely lets the reader make up his mind about Eichmann's trial.  The part I found most interesting is when she went through the various European nations and how they responded to the orders for deportation.  They ranged from Denmark where, in time, the SS wouldn't carry out their orders, to Romania where the SS had to step in to protect Jews from waves of violence unleashed by the locals.

Eichmann Before Jerusalem: The Unexamined Life of a Mass Murderer by Bettina Stangneth: one of many attempts to rebut Eichmann in Jerusalem, this time using the Sassen interviews, which Eichmann conducted with Willem Sassen while both were living in Argentina.  The problem with this approach is that Eichmann was a notorious braggart, something that even Stangneth begrudgingly admits.  The interesting part, to me, in this one is that in the 1950s both neo-Nazis and genuine Nazis like Stassen (prior to interviewing Eichmann) were Holocaust deniers.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 05, 2016, 02:39:37 AM
Have you read The Origins of Political Order by Francis Fukuyama?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on March 05, 2016, 06:43:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 05, 2016, 02:39:37 AM
Have you read The Origins of Political Order by Francis Fukuyama?

No, it looks like it got a lot of positive reviews.  What did you think of it?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 05, 2016, 06:53:15 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 05, 2016, 06:43:48 PM
No, it looks like it got a lot of positive reviews.  What did you think of it?

Thumbs up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: dps on March 05, 2016, 07:06:55 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 03, 2016, 04:01:55 PM
What I found most difficult was how she kept describing the nation and the state as separate entities.  Since it's a foreign concept in the United States, I found it a struggle to understand what she meant.


As I understand it, the nation is basically the people, while the state is basically the government, correct?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 07, 2016, 06:42:40 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 26, 2016, 08:52:31 AM
Finished Moby Dick. First time I've read it in English. I love this book.

About to start it for the first time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on March 07, 2016, 08:04:20 AM
Quote from: dps on March 05, 2016, 07:06:55 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 03, 2016, 04:01:55 PM
What I found most difficult was how she kept describing the nation and the state as separate entities.  Since it's a foreign concept in the United States, I found it a struggle to understand what she meant.


As I understand it, the nation is basically the people, while the state is basically the government, correct?
I think "bureaucracy and guns" is probably the best way of describing a state. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on March 07, 2016, 08:06:30 AM
Quote from: Gups on March 07, 2016, 06:42:40 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 26, 2016, 08:52:31 AM
Finished Moby Dick. First time I've read it in English. I love this book.

About to start it for the first time.
Best novel written in English.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 07, 2016, 12:40:07 PM
Quote from: Gups on March 07, 2016, 06:42:40 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 26, 2016, 08:52:31 AM
Finished Moby Dick. First time I've read it in English. I love this book.

About to start it for the first time.

Hope you enjoy it! :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on March 07, 2016, 04:05:37 PM
Quote from: dps on March 05, 2016, 07:06:55 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 03, 2016, 04:01:55 PM
What I found most difficult was how she kept describing the nation and the state as separate entities.  Since it's a foreign concept in the United States, I found it a struggle to understand what she meant.


As I understand it, the nation is basically the people, while the state is basically the government, correct?

Yes, that's correct, the Jews were a nation but, prior to the founding of Israel, there was no Jewish state.  (At least not in modern times, queue up the Languish discussion of when the first Jewish state ended.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on March 07, 2016, 04:37:11 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 07, 2016, 04:05:37 PM
Quote from: dps on March 05, 2016, 07:06:55 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 03, 2016, 04:01:55 PM
What I found most difficult was how she kept describing the nation and the state as separate entities.  Since it's a foreign concept in the United States, I found it a struggle to understand what she meant.


As I understand it, the nation is basically the people, while the state is basically the government, correct?

Yes, that's correct, the Jews were a nation but, prior to the founding of Israel, there was no Jewish state.  (At least not in modern times, queue up the Languish discussion of when the first Jewish state ended.)

As a matter of terminology, it is perhaps an advantage to think of Jews as forming a "tribe", and as Israel as a "state" with a majority Jewish population.

"Tribe" is perhaps a better descriptor than "religion" or "ethnicity" (though it has aspects of both). "Nation" is correct, but confusing, as it is often as you say considered synonymous with "state". 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 07, 2016, 04:40:19 PM
North Americans haven't heard of the term "nation state"?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 07, 2016, 05:40:51 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on March 07, 2016, 08:06:30 AM
Best novel written in English.

:wacko:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on March 07, 2016, 06:00:46 PM
Quote from: Gups on March 07, 2016, 06:42:40 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 26, 2016, 08:52:31 AM
Finished Moby Dick. First time I've read it in English. I love this book.

About to start it for the first time.

It takes a while to get going.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on March 07, 2016, 10:50:54 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 07, 2016, 04:40:19 PM
North Americans haven't heard of the term "nation state"?

Of course. But we usually just call it "Texas".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 08, 2016, 07:04:50 AM
Quote from: Malthus on December 28, 2015, 01:34:25 PM
Currently reading The Invention of Nature: Alexander Von Humboldt's New World by Andrea Wulf, all about the life, travels and discoveries of the German scientist. Very entertaining so far.

Odd footnote: Humboldt hung out with Goethe and, allegedly, influenced the latter's characterization of Faust.  :D

I bought this as Christmas present for my uncle.  I hope he found it entertaining.  Or at least read it.  Or at least might read it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 09, 2016, 10:53:20 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 05, 2016, 02:39:37 AM
Have you read The Origins of Political Order by Francis Fukuyama?

I read the first book.  Haven't gotten to the sequel yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 09, 2016, 11:42:46 AM
On the topic of political theory, any C. Schmitt readers among us?  I know Zanza denounced me for referencing him once, since (like Heidegger) he never apologized for his 1933-35 activity and hence wasn't de-Nazified.  I've read The Concept of the Political, Political Theology, and Theory of the Partisan, but I'm trying to decide the next one to pick up.

Interestingly, Walter Benjamin and Carl Schmitt not only overlapped in epoch and thought (albeit from left vs right) but contributed to the same journal at the same time (c. 1922, IIRC) so it's impossible they weren't acquainted with each other's ideas.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on March 14, 2016, 12:11:15 PM
The Black Count

Sesame Street has taken political correctness too far!   :mad: :mad: :mad:

Just kidding, the book I actually read was: The Black Count: Glory, Revolution, Betrayal, and the Real Count of Monte Cristo by Tom Reiss.  I covers the life of General Thomas-Alexandre Dumas, father of the novelist (and grandfather of the playwright.)  Elements of the general's life serve as the models for both Georges and the Count of Monte Cristo.  (Reiss hints that he may have been the inspiration for D'Artagnan, but I've also read that he was the basis for Porthos as well.)

It's an interesting and thoroughly readable account of the General's life; France in he revolutionary period and Haiti (Saint-Domingue) during the ancien regime.  It might be a little overly light for the more serious scholars on Languish, but one thing that only this forum will appreciate, Thomas-Alexandre Dumas was known by the nickname: The Horatius Cocles of Tyrol.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 15, 2016, 01:34:53 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 14, 2016, 12:11:15 PM
The Black Count

Sesame Street has taken political correctness too far!   :mad: :mad: :mad:

Just kidding, the book I actually read was: The Black Count: Glory, Revolution, Betrayal, and the Real Count of Monte Cristo by Tom Reiss.  I covers the life of General Thomas-Alexandre Dumas, father of the novelist (and grandfather of the playwright.)  Elements of the general's life serve as the models for both Georges and the Count of Monte Cristo.  (Reiss hints that he may have been the inspiration for D'Artagnan, but I've also read that he was the basis for Porthos as well.)

It's an interesting and thoroughly readable account of the General's life; France in he revolutionary period and Haiti (Saint-Domingue) during the ancien regime.  It might be a little overly light for the more serious scholars on Languish, but one thing that only this forum will appreciate, Thomas-Alexandre Dumas was known by the nickname: The Horatius Cocles of Tyrol.

Speaking of Saint-Domingue and Black Counts, I just read Black Jacobins, C.L.R. James' 1938 work -- the 2nd edition from the early 1960's, which came with a new preface but only added footnotes that (rather unsubtly :lol:) point out his prescience concerning WWII and the postwar African independence movements.

It is somehow timeless, despite the démodé Marxism-Leninism that powers the whole enterprise, in its spirited assault on the popular opinion of Toussaint L'Ouverture and Haitian sovereignty at the time. 

But the work argues most passionately (and most interestingly, IMO) to establish the connection of both Toussaint's life history and Haiti's independence to the course of the French Revolutionary (esp. the Directory) and Napoleonic period.  Bourgeois imperialist readers won't enjoy it quite as much, I expect, but there is much of Orwell's plain-spoken urgency in this work. 

It's to my discredit that it took me so long to read this work, a classic in historiography if nothing else, and then only because I grabbed it from the window of a local used bookstore promoting their Black History Month stock. :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 15, 2016, 02:12:38 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 09, 2016, 11:42:46 AM
On the topic of political theory, any C. Schmitt readers among us?  I know Zanza denounced me for referencing him once, since (like Heidegger) he never apologized for his 1933-35 activity and hence wasn't de-Nazified.  I've read The Concept of the Political, Political Theology, and Theory of the Partisan, but I'm trying to decide the next one to pick up.

Interestingly, Walter Benjamin and Carl Schmitt not only overlapped in epoch and thought (albeit from left vs right) but contributed to the same journal at the same time (c. 1922, IIRC) so it's impossible they weren't acquainted with each other's ideas.

Got around to reading him earlier this year, rather than read what others wrote about him. Much like your contrition about CLR James, I am ashamed it took me so long.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 15, 2016, 04:14:06 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 15, 2016, 02:12:38 AM
Got around to reading him earlier this year, rather than read what others wrote about him. Much like your contrition about CLR James, I am ashamed it took me so long.

Ah excellent, he's one of those ones (like Benjamin and especially like Lacan, though probably not as much in your field...) that gets little bits cited hither and thither without a real engagement with their work.

(Lacan's writing is a lost cause -- as is his thought and as was his psychoanalytic practice, IMO -- I think Heidegger may be a lost cause in terms of quotability, but not hid thought).  But Schmitt and Benjamin are to blame in part because they write so well, so aphoristically, so biblically.  "Sovereign is he who decides on the exception."  "It is only for the sake of the hopeless that hope is given to us."

At the risk of being overly earnest, I think Agamben is probably the greatest philosopher of our time and I think he has done a great job with Schmitt, but Chantal Mouffe has done a lot, as has David Dyzenhaus up in Toronto, and even [cringe] Žižek at times, so the secondary literature on Schmitt in the last 20 years hasn't been shit, just to absolve your conscience. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 15, 2016, 04:36:53 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 15, 2016, 01:34:53 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 14, 2016, 12:11:15 PM
The Black Count

Sesame Street has taken political correctness too far!   :mad: :mad: :mad:

Just kidding, the book I actually read was: The Black Count: Glory, Revolution, Betrayal, and the Real Count of Monte Cristo by Tom Reiss.  I covers the life of General Thomas-Alexandre Dumas, father of the novelist (and grandfather of the playwright.)  Elements of the general's life serve as the models for both Georges and the Count of Monte Cristo.  (Reiss hints that he may have been the inspiration for D'Artagnan, but I've also read that he was the basis for Porthos as well.)

It's an interesting and thoroughly readable account of the General's life; France in he revolutionary period and Haiti (Saint-Domingue) during the ancien regime.  It might be a little overly light for the more serious scholars on Languish, but one thing that only this forum will appreciate, Thomas-Alexandre Dumas was known by the nickname: The Horatius Cocles of Tyrol.

Speaking of Saint-Domingue and Black Counts, I just read Black Jacobins, C.L.R. James' 1938 work -- the 2nd edition from the early 1960's, which came with a new preface but only added footnotes that (rather unsubtly :lol:) point out his prescience concerning WWII and the postwar African independence movements.

It is somehow timeless, despite the démodé Marxism-Leninism that powers the whole enterprise, in its spirited assault on the popular opinion of Toussaint L'Ouverture and Haitian sovereignty at the time. 

But the work argues most passionately (and most interestingly, IMO) to establish the connection of both Toussaint's life history and Haiti's independence to the course of the French Revolutionary (esp. the Directory) and Napoleonic period.  Bourgeois imperialist readers won't enjoy it quite as much, I expect, but there is much of Orwell's plain-spoken urgency in this work. 

It's to my discredit that it took me so long to read this work, a classic in historiography if nothing else, and then only because I grabbed it from the window of a local used bookstore promoting their Black History Month stock. :Embarrass:

You may not be aware that CLR James remains very widely read for his classic book on cricket  "Beyond a Boundary", regularly cited as the best book on the sport (and it's a crowded and competitive field). It's well worth a read, even if you have no interest in cricket.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 15, 2016, 05:10:13 AM
Quote from: Gups on March 15, 2016, 04:36:53 AM
You may not be aware that CLR James remains very widely read for his classic book on cricket  "Beyond a Boundary", regularly cited as the best book on the sport (and it's a crowded and competitive field). It's well worth a read, even if you have no interest in cricket.

Thanks for recommendation, Gups, I knew James was a cricket aficionado, but didn't know about that book in particular, let alone how highly regard it is.  I will definitely take a look.  I've loved Eduardo Galeano's writing on soccer/football/futbol even though I have no interest in that sport either. *ducks*
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 22, 2016, 10:12:10 PM
Finally out.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F61Rg7gwfK0L._SX345_BO1%2C204%2C203%2C200_.jpg&hash=1366d48db34f4a263b7bce3d84b029f8339828f3)


His book Days of Battle was well done. It is the only book in English that gave a good descriptive account of the last successful German offensive operation (Operation Southwind) of the war.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 23, 2016, 04:04:07 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 09, 2015, 06:31:56 AM
http://www.amazon.com/The-Dawn-Modern-Warfare-History/dp/0803265867

Ordered this, I'll report on it when I get it in the mail. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 25, 2016, 07:40:35 PM
Finished Fuchida's autobiography. Which is ironic, since he didn't. Anyway, interesting life and nice descriptions of dramatic moments and what he felt about them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 27, 2016, 05:03:06 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 05, 2016, 06:21:54 AM
Have you considered playing Crusader Kings II instead?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforumcontent.paradoxplaza.com%2Fpublic%2F144523%2F2016-02-04_00002.jpg&hash=8210e6c98a0e484a612d196b7de792e68588af7d)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforumcontent.paradoxplaza.com%2Fpublic%2F144524%2F2016-02-04_00004.jpg&hash=be703571b4376f5f225af82e5e2d03a348dc52bb)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforumcontent.paradoxplaza.com%2Fpublic%2F144525%2F2016-02-04_00005.jpg&hash=638207cb8514c35477323d09e57d1b5716695e13)

That is a huge HRE for that early in the game. I assume you started as Charlemagne?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 27, 2016, 01:42:22 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 22, 2016, 10:12:10 PM
Finally out.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F61Rg7gwfK0L._SX345_BO1%2C204%2C203%2C200_.jpg&hash=1366d48db34f4a263b7bce3d84b029f8339828f3)


His book Days of Battle was well done. It is the only book in English that gave a good descriptive account of the last successful German offensive operation (Operation Southwind) of the war.

About 90 pages in. Very good narrative on both sides on battalion level engagements of Konrad I. It's a combat mission scenario designers dream. Fixing to start the chapter on the armored battle at Zamoly. Some translation anomolies, but other that clearly written. Still amazing the Germans could smack the Russians around in Jan '45 and still give the Russians fits. Most of the panzer units were way below even operational combat tank strength. The Luftwaffe was providing an amazing amount of ground support.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on March 27, 2016, 05:34:47 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 16, 2009, 01:52:42 AM
In the old thread the question was raised about books about the Seven Years War that are *not* about the British Navy or the French and Indian Wars.

The Seven Years War in Europe: 1756-1763 by Franz A.J. Szabo was mentioned in the context, but I guess I'll leave it be after this reader review on Wargamer:
QuoteJust finished the above book. Let me save you the trouble and summarize: Frederick the great was an incompetent tyrant and , apparently, a coward who routinely fled from battles that his over rated Prussian Army constantly lost.  When prussia won a victory, it was only because of some type of fluke like a weather event, or a junior Austrian officer misunderstanding an order.  Austria routinely dominated the incompetent Frederick whose Prussian Army only survived through sheer luck.  Fredericks reputataion only developed due to Prussian propogandists.

I guess I should have read the author's bio first. Professor of Austrian Studies, native Austrian, and dedicated his book to his two grandfathers who, as he proudly announces, both fought for Austria-hungary during WWI.
Though they contain information on the French and Indian War, I found Crucible of War: The Seven Years' War and the Fate of Empire in British North America, 1754-1766 by Fred Anderson and  The French and Indian War and the Conquest of New France by William R. Nester to both have some solid insights into the European and global aspects of the war as well.  If people are interested in the era, I'd highly recommend them both.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on March 27, 2016, 06:24:46 PM
Been reading the Franco-Prussian war by Michael Howard.  A lot about how crooked and incompetent Napoleon III's regime was.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 29, 2016, 09:46:21 PM
Exciting times for the Russian theater.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F61-QlZY-rML._SX345_BO1%2C204%2C203%2C200_.jpg&hash=70680dcdfff70f08eaf3153aaa6f825815037402)

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 29, 2016, 10:00:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 27, 2016, 06:24:46 PM
Been reading the Franco-Prussian war by Michael Howard.  A lot about how crooked and incompetent Napoleon III's regime was.

If your interested in more of the tactical side;

DAY OF BATTLE: Mars-La-Tour

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on March 29, 2016, 11:02:21 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 29, 2016, 10:00:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 27, 2016, 06:24:46 PM
Been reading the Franco-Prussian war by Michael Howard.  A lot about how crooked and incompetent Napoleon III's regime was.

If your interested in more of the tactical side;

DAY OF BATTLE: Mars-La-Tour

I'm not finished with it yet, I don't even know who wins!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on March 29, 2016, 11:13:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 27, 2016, 06:24:46 PM
Been reading the Franco-Prussian war by Michael Howard.  A lot about how crooked and incompetent Napoleon III's regime was.

Well he had been sick for awhile and had passed more and more power over the liberals. I have a generally positive view of his regime as a stabilizer that made the Third Republic possible by institutionalizing parliamentary politics. That was, after all, his goal as he wrote in his political manifesto back when he was in exile (well not the Republic part, he wanted a British style monarchy).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on March 29, 2016, 11:17:31 PM
The embezzlement thing seems like a black mark.  I do think the author is t0o kind to the Prussians, but this was the 1960's and everyone was still convinced that the Germans were gods of war.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 08, 2016, 12:58:12 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 23, 2016, 04:04:07 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 09, 2015, 06:31:56 AM
http://www.amazon.com/The-Dawn-Modern-Warfare-History/dp/0803265867

Ordered this, I'll report on it when I get it in the mail. :)

Got this yesterday. Can't wait to start it. I didn't realize that it was a foundational work in the field from the 20's when I ordered it. Should be interesting trying to pick out the biases.

Anyone got any suggestions of something more current on the topic?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 08, 2016, 12:26:52 PM
I just received the Great Northern War Compendium, two volumes of richly illustrated articles by a number of authors from several different countries on most aspects of the war. From a brief look it appears pretty awesome, I don't think you'll find anything like it in English again in a looong time.

Link: http://www.thehistoricalgamecompany.com/product/great-northern-war-compendium-2/

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on April 08, 2016, 12:30:17 PM
I bet the Turks wish they had the Battle of the Prut to do over again.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2016, 12:47:38 PM
Picked up Jared Diamond's "Collapse."  Currently reading about the various Norse North Atlantic colonies.

Was very surprised to learn that in 1748 1/5 of the population of Iceland died of starvation.

The book overall is metzo metzo.  Would have benefited from a condensation of the discussion of soil erosion.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on April 23, 2016, 07:51:30 PM
Downloaded

Queen's Rangers by Simcoe

Quebec's American Rangers by Gara
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on April 23, 2016, 08:29:49 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2016, 12:47:38 PM
Picked up Jared Diamond's "Collapse."  Currently reading about the various Norse North Atlantic colonies.

Was very surprised to learn that in 1748 1/5 of the population of Iceland died of starvation.

The book overall is metzo metzo.  Would have benefited from a condensation of the discussion of soil erosion.

1784. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 23, 2016, 08:32:41 PM
Sounds good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 23, 2016, 09:06:29 PM
Raz is either a very dedicated fact checker or secretly Icelandic.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on April 23, 2016, 09:11:29 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 23, 2016, 09:06:29 PM
Raz is either a very dedicated fact checker or secretly Icelandic.

It's kind of a famous event.  Also, I read that book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 23, 2016, 09:24:32 PM
"Famous Events in Iceland"?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on April 24, 2016, 04:36:17 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 23, 2016, 09:24:32 PM
"Famous Events in Iceland"?

Famous in the world.  It caused chaos all over the place.  Ben Franklin is famous for correctly identifying the cause.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 24, 2016, 12:01:51 PM
I'm tempted by a book on German S-Boote just because it's written by Hans Frank. Should I pull the trigger?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 24, 2016, 12:26:05 PM
Too late. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on April 28, 2016, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 23, 2016, 07:51:30 PM
Downloaded



Queen's American Rangers by Gara

Very well done. Small unit actions by the QAR and how it fit in the larger scheme from Rogers to the evil (:rolleyes:) John Graves Simcoe.

On to "War on the Run" by John Ross.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 06, 2016, 05:24:22 AM
George RR Martin or JRR Tolkien? :hmm:

https://youtu.be/XAAp_luluo0
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 10, 2016, 07:53:29 AM
I read a collection of Paul Verlaine's poetry, which is notoriously difficult to translate into English.  That's too bad since his poetry covers such a broad range of the human experience; including the teenage lesbian incest experience.  Poetry is a lovely art form.   :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on May 11, 2016, 03:57:28 PM
Any version with pictures?

Asking for a friend
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 11, 2016, 04:09:20 PM
Quote from: sbr on May 11, 2016, 03:57:28 PM
Any version with pictures?

Asking for a friend

Surprisingly, or maybe not, yes it looks like there are many illustrated versions of that poem.  You can take your pick here:  NSFW (https://www.google.com/search?q=verlaine+les+pensionnaires&safe=active&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPkPmJ9tLMAhXDXiwKHYH_C2sQ_AUICCgC&biw=1280&bih=923)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 11, 2016, 04:23:00 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 10, 2016, 07:53:29 AM
I read a collection of Paul Verlaine's poetry, which is notoriously difficult to translate into English.  That's too bad since his poetry covers such a broad range of the human experience; including the teenage lesbian incest experience.  Poetry is a lovely art form.   :)

Wasn't he a man's man?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 11, 2016, 05:15:32 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 11, 2016, 04:23:00 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 10, 2016, 07:53:29 AM
I read a collection of Paul Verlaine's poetry, which is notoriously difficult to translate into English.  That's too bad since his poetry covers such a broad range of the human experience; including the teenage lesbian incest experience.  Poetry is a lovely art form.   :)

Wasn't he a man's man?

Yes he was.  In fact, in the English speaking world, he's probably better remembered for his tempestuous affair with Arthur Rimbaud than he is for his poetry.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 24, 2016, 06:07:49 PM
Finnegans Wake. Lots of fun.

Worth the time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 24, 2016, 09:08:54 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 24, 2016, 06:07:49 PM
Finnegans Wake. Lots of fun.

Worth the time.

Welcome Back!!!!!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 25, 2016, 12:42:21 PM
Currently reading Guy Gavriel Kay's latest semi-historical fiction Children of Earth and Sky. I'm enjoying it, though it starts off slow. Never has the question "LOL Can I be Ottoman Empire?" been more apt.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Berkut on May 25, 2016, 12:50:46 PM
I am thinking about trying to dive into Peter Hamilton's Reality Dysfunction series. I've heard really mixed reviews on it - some saying it is great, others saying it is a bloated whale of crap.

Any Languishites familiar with the series?

http://www.amazon.com/Reality-Dysfunction-Nights-Dawn/dp/0316021806/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 25, 2016, 01:08:11 PM
Quote from: Berkut on May 25, 2016, 12:50:46 PM
I am thinking about trying to dive into Peter Hamilton's Reality Dysfunction series. I've heard really mixed reviews on it - some saying it is great, others saying it is a bloated whale of crap.

Any Languishites familiar with the series?

http://www.amazon.com/Reality-Dysfunction-Nights-Dawn/dp/0316021806/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

FWIW I really enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on May 25, 2016, 02:06:02 PM
It's not as enjoyable as his "Commonwealth" duology in my opinion, but I found them to be a good read; good enough that I have the third volume of the trilogy in hardback on my shelf.

Before the Kindle, that was...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 26, 2016, 04:39:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 24, 2016, 09:08:54 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 24, 2016, 06:07:49 PM
Finnegans Wake. Lots of fun.

Worth the time.

Welcome Back!!!!!
Ta :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 27, 2016, 10:46:42 PM
Quote from: Berkut on May 25, 2016, 12:50:46 PM
I am thinking about trying to dive into Peter Hamilton's Reality Dysfunction series. I've heard really mixed reviews on it - some saying it is great, others saying it is a bloated whale of crap.

Any Languishites familiar with the series?

http://www.amazon.com/Reality-Dysfunction-Nights-Dawn/dp/0316021806/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

I hadn't heard about it before reading about it here.  I like how it starts, not that far in though.  But he is a good writer.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 01, 2016, 09:00:44 PM
Going to start

A Savage War of Peace; Algeria 1954-1962.

Frenchies and Ragheads, OH MY.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 02, 2016, 09:02:17 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 01, 2016, 09:00:44 PM
Going to start

A Savage War of Peace; Algeria 1954-1962.

Frenchies and Ragheads, OH MY.

Vive de Gaulle! Oh right he is dead.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 02, 2016, 08:26:04 PM
Next on the list. One for Seedy.

(https://d.gr-assets.com/books/1400396192l/69431.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 02, 2016, 09:16:31 PM
Slavery and Social Death by Orlando Patterson.  This is kind of an oldie (1982) and I know comparative history is considered pretty gauche these days (though I'm a sucker for it; Peter Kolchin's Unfree Labor, also from the 80s, comparing American slavery and Russian serfdom, was a great read).  I'm sure specialists have taken exception with a lot of his characterizations of various historical slave societies in the decades since this came out. 

But as an amateur, I do enjoy the breadth: from Athens to Delphi to Rome to the Abbasids to the Tuareg to the Northwest Pacific Coast Indians to the Somali to the Vikings to the Ottomans to the Dutch East Indies to the US South, and back. 

It's kind of hard to distill the thrust of the book, but he does have a basic thesis that slavery, in whatever form, has always involved the dominion over "natally alienated" (and thus socially dead) people, whether made that way by birth, debt, or capture.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2016, 10:05:11 PM
Sounds a little tautologically circular.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 02, 2016, 10:26:01 PM
I wouldn't say it's the strongest-argued book I've ever read, but the scope makes it worthwhile.  For instance, I learned that the NW Pacific Coast Natives had one of the bloodiest slave societies in history.  If a loved one's relative died, it was typical to kill a few of your own slaves as an expression of condolences; it actually does make sense tied in with potlach. 

Not much time is spent on the post-1500 trans-Atlantic slave trade, probably for the best as it's the most familiar and in some ways the most unrepresentative.  Quite a bit of time is spent on antiquity; the legal problems manumission caused, and the way the Romans got around it, for instance, I found very interesting. 

The rules Islam imposed upon the practice of slavery, and the extent they were obeyed, takes up a good amount of space, considering the various regimes and empires (al-Andalus slavery vs. Visigoth slavery, Ottoman devşirme, Barbary pirate state practices, Abbasid ghilman, the Zanj rebellion, etc.). 

And another tidbit: I really didn't know that the Venetians owned large numbers of slaves working sugar plantations on Crete and other islands well into the early modern period (essentially up until the rise of sugar imports from the Western Hemisphere), having thought intra-European slavery was well over by that point.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 03, 2016, 03:27:39 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 01, 2016, 09:00:44 PM
Going to start

A Savage War of Peace; Algeria 1954-1962.

Frenchies and Ragheads, OH MY.
Excellent book.

On slavery I've been reading Hugh Thomas' books on the Spanish empire and I had no idea how widespread slavery was in peninsular Spain before then, or how recently conquered and colonised the Canaries were - the first sugar mills in Spain and somewhere the colonisers of the Americas took a lot of ideas from, as in the Caribbean the native population more or less went into permanent decline very rapidly.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 03, 2016, 03:30:32 PM
Was randomly at Waterstones and picked up Bill Bryson's The Road to Little Dribbling: More Notes From a Small Island. I'd forgotten how much I love him.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 03, 2016, 05:56:26 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 03, 2016, 03:27:39 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 01, 2016, 09:00:44 PM
Going to start

A Savage War of Peace; Algeria 1954-1962.

Frenchies and Ragheads, OH MY.
Excellent book.

On slavery I've been reading Hugh Thomas' books on the Spanish empire and I had no idea how widespread slavery was in peninsular Spain before then, or how recently conquered and colonised the Canaries were - the first sugar mills in Spain and somewhere the colonisers of the Americas took a lot of ideas from, as in the Caribbean the native population more or less went into permanent decline very rapidly.

Yes, slavery not serfdorm was the norm well through the Middle Ages, and the Canaries (as well, as Southern Italy, Crete, Cyprus, and Madeira) were all tried out as areas for producing the white gold of sugar through intensively-managed large-scale slave plantations, before the discovery of the Americas blew the doors open and rendered it irrelevant.

African slavery was actually introduced into Iberia several decades before it was introduced in the Americas, making up for some of the morisco depopulation, most strikingly in the Portuguese province of Alcazar do Sul -- whose population today, unsurprisingly, has the highest "sub-saharan African" genome markers in Europe (up to 20%).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 10, 2016, 07:37:24 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 03, 2016, 03:27:39 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 01, 2016, 09:00:44 PM
Going to start

A Savage War of Peace; Algeria 1954-1962.

Frenchies and Ragheads, OH MY.
Excellent book.



Enjoying it. Seems like he researched it very well. I don't know much about the war, but the general narrative sounds vaguely familiar.  :P

Frenchies have a bizarre system.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 10, 2016, 07:43:21 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 10, 2016, 07:37:24 PM
Enjoying it. Seems like he researched it very well. I don't know much about the war, but the general narrative sounds vaguely familiar.  :P
:lol: It was a set text in the Pentagon I think during the Iraq War.

Alastair Horne's done a series of excellent books on French conflicts: Price of Glory on Verdun, Fall of Paris on the Siege and the Commune and To Lose a Battle on 1940. Not read a bad one yet. And he's Harold MacMillan's official biographer so I think his off-the-record knowledge of a (highly partial) insider in the 40s-60s is probably a really interesting informing factor in those books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 09:08:03 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 02, 2016, 08:26:04 PM
Next on the list. One for Seedy.

(https://d.gr-assets.com/books/1400396192l/69431.jpg)

Interesting. What story is this about?

QuoteYes, slavery not serfdorm was the norm well through the Middle Ages

Interesting. That certainly explains a bit about why the Spanish acted like they did in the New World. What was the source of that? The wars?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 10, 2016, 09:12:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 09:08:03 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 02, 2016, 08:26:04 PM
Next on the list. One for Seedy.

(https://d.gr-assets.com/books/1400396192l/69431.jpg)

Interesting. What story is this about?

QuoteYes, slavery not serfdorm was the norm well through the Middle Ages

Interesting. That certainly explains a bit about why the Spanish acted like they did in the New World. What was the source of that? The wars?

The St. Francis raid against the Abanaki
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 10, 2016, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 09:08:03 PM

Interesting. That certainly explains a bit about why the Spanish acted like they did in the New World. What was the source of that? The wars?
Not sure about the implication about the Spanish in the New World.

But apparently slavery was fairly common in Southern Europe at this point. In Spain they had black slaves from Africa and born in Europe, slaves from the Maghreb, a few native Canarians and even in the late 15th century there were still some Eastern European slaves.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 09:32:17 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 10, 2016, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 09:08:03 PM

Interesting. That certainly explains a bit about why the Spanish acted like they did in the New World. What was the source of that? The wars?
Not sure about the implication about the Spanish in the New World.

But apparently slavery was fairly common in Southern Europe at this point. In Spain they had black slaves from Africa and born in Europe, slaves from the Maghreb, a few native Canarians and even in the late 15th century there were still some Eastern European slaves.

I meant in the sense that they quickly took to enslaving and using slaves in the Canaries and as they expanded. If they were already doing that in large numbers in Spain that might explain things.

Did the Cordobans use sub-saharan slaves extensively and the Spanish just took that over? I know the Italians used slavery a bit in the Mediterranean but on a comparatively small scale.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 10, 2016, 09:43:21 PM
Possibly.

My understanding - from this one book in which it's a minor feature - is that slavery was fairly common across Spain, it was not just a feature of Islamic Spain. As I say there were Christian slaves in Christian Spain. But by the late 15th century at least they were importing slaves directly from the Portuguese who at that time had a monopoly on the Guinea coast. I imagine that prior to that they took over at least some of the trade that existed in the Muslim bits of Spain. As I say it was only a little bit but I found it very surprising.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 10, 2016, 09:56:33 PM
Well the Visigoths picked up Roman slavery, for one thing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 11, 2016, 05:16:35 PM
The White Goddess – Robert Graves

Like The Golden Bough, only more so (though Graves does link Frazer to Hitler near the end.)  Graves, using some dubious philology and extraordinary leaps of logic, demonstrates that a universal matriarchal cult that stretched from India to the British Isles; pre-dated the patriarchal Abrahamic and classical religions.  The focus of the cult, the triple goddess, bears an extraordinary resemblance, in her many guises, to the women in Graves's life.  He also demonstrates that all true poetry (as defined by Graves) is based on a central myth about her and her two rival god suitors.  Graves openly admits that the book is a work of poetic truth rather than historical fact.  So long as you don't take it seriously, this is a fun read.  It was an influence on both Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 11, 2016, 07:04:46 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 02, 2016, 08:26:04 PM
Next on the list. One for Seedy.

Seedy understands that the white man is a dog to his women.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 11, 2016, 07:53:26 PM
Read Beevor's D-Day book. Some nice Monty bashing in it.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 11, 2016, 08:09:51 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 11, 2016, 07:53:26 PM
Read Beevor's D-Day book. Some nice Monty bashing in it.  :)

You just fapped over the French body count.  Don't lie.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 11, 2016, 08:10:36 PM
 :Embarrass:

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 11, 2016, 08:40:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 11, 2016, 07:53:26 PM
Read Beevor's D-Day book. Some nice Monty bashing in it.  :)

The only D Day book I can remember reading is The Longest Day. All others have been on operations after the landings. Like Danglish's books on Goodwood and others about the Canucks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 12, 2016, 01:35:11 AM
Ah, the C'ucks. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 12, 2016, 02:40:34 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-wTWYM25FLRk%2FT1QFMHyfIhI%2FAAAAAAAAABo%2F0XzitiDoVl0%2Fs1600%2FDien%2BBien%2BPhu_.jpg&hash=6b92717029fd30f07ac1d7f45c202c06d8f49895)

Anyone read this.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 12, 2016, 07:48:14 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 11, 2016, 08:40:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 11, 2016, 07:53:26 PM
Read Beevor's D-Day book. Some nice Monty bashing in it.  :)

The only D Day book I can remember reading is The Longest Day. All others have been on operations after the landings. Like Danglish's books on Goodwood and others about the Canucks.

Beevor's goes to the Liberation of Paris.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 13, 2016, 12:55:18 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 10, 2016, 07:43:21 PM
:lol: It was a set text in the Pentagon I think during the Iraq War.

Alastair Horne's done a series of excellent books on French conflicts: Price of Glory on Verdun, Fall of Paris on the Siege and the Commune and To Lose a Battle on 1940. Not read a bad one yet. And he's Harold MacMillan's official biographer so I think his off-the-record knowledge of a (highly partial) insider in the 40s-60s is probably a really interesting informing factor in those books.

I forgot to mention this earlier: of the three, I've only read The Fall of Paris (which I bought and spilled red wine over just 24 hours or so short of the Paris shootings, making for some awkward bus reading), and enjoyed it greatly.

It is very much a persona-driven type of history book, taking a close look at the individual characteristics Prussian leaders and different Parisian deputues as it spins its narrative.  I think including the perspective of a few expatriate Britons, stranded or remaining voluntarily in Paris, as conveyed in their letters back home throughout 1870-71 was a real strength of the book, even though it might seem kind of parochial in the abstract. 

Speaking of which, there's bit of a British "common-sense" chastising of those hotheaded, vindictive Frenchmen that occasionally strikes a condescending note, especially when "national character" enters the discussion.  There is also a very pronounced hostility towards Marx/Marxism that is sometimes very well-founded, sometimes less so.

Overall, it was a very fast-paced and engaging read that gave me some much-needed insight into a topic that I should have known much more about than I did.  Military history buffs who've already read up on the Franco-Prussian War or social historians who are already knowledgeable about the Commune will probably not get much out of it, but for a novice like me it was a great introduction to both topics (the war and the Commune).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 14, 2016, 09:14:54 AM
I finished re-reading Philip K. Dick's Flow My Tears The Policeman Said.  I had read it several years ago to try to get a better understanding of "Waking Life" which references.  It didn't help with that, but it's still a good story. 

Funniest view of the dystopian future:  Richard Nixon has been deified (obviously borrowed from Brave New World, but Nixon is an even funnier choice than Ford/Freud.)
Most prescient view of the dystopian future:  Recreational drugs are legal, but cigarettes are rationed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 14, 2016, 03:57:35 PM
Currently reading The Steel Bonnets: the Story of the Anglo-Scottish Border Reivers by G. MacDonald Fraser.

A place and time that sounds so grim and unpleasant as to be almost funny. The border was, apparently, for a couple of centuries a cesspit of mafia-like violence, raiding, rape, murder and blackmail - a sort of lawless zone, sometimes encouraged by England and Scotland, sometimes suppressed - that developed its own twisted, nasty and brutal culture (later much romanticized) as a result of constant border clashes. People in that area learned that violence paid more than making stuff; they lived in temporary shacks (or stone towers) because anything permanent but flammable got burned down by raiders; they lived a semi-nomadic lifestyle, always wary of raiders come to kidnap and steal. Sort of like a 16th century Mad Max.  :D

At one point, he discusses how the various place names themselves conjure up sinister imagery (Bloody Bush, Foul-Play Know, Oh Me Edge, Blackhaggs, etc.). The cast of historic characters more than matches that imagery!

Interesting, too, that so many of the famous family names from the bloody border regions are later found prominently in North America - he mentions how, in a presidential campaign, President Nixon was holding a press conference with Johnston and Billy Graham: all three last names are famous borderer names (Nixon, Johnston, Graham).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on June 14, 2016, 04:00:14 PM
I loved that book, myself.  GMF did some great history alongside his Flashman series as well.   :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 14, 2016, 04:06:15 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on June 14, 2016, 04:00:14 PM
I loved that book, myself.  GMF did some great history alongside his Flashman series as well.   :)

Yup; I'm a big Flashman fan, and I also loved his WW2 autobiography Quartered Safe Out Here, and his "McAuslan" short stories too. For some reason I never tracked down his Steel Bonnets - I'm repairing that omission now.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pedrito on June 14, 2016, 04:41:57 PM
Anyone here ever read anything by Thomas Ligotti?

The Conspiracy Against the Human Race is told to be an interesting read.

L.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 14, 2016, 04:48:30 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on June 14, 2016, 04:41:57 PM
Anyone here ever read anything by Thomas Ligotti?

The Conspiracy Against the Human Race is told to be an interesting read.

L.

No, but I heard that The Conspiracy Against the Human Race was a major influence on the series True Detective, which I saw and enjoyed.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 14, 2016, 04:55:53 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 14, 2016, 03:57:35 PM
Interesting, too, that so many of the famous family names from the bloody border regions are later found prominently in North America - he mentions how, in a presidential campaign, President Nixon was holding a press conference with Johnston and Billy Graham: all three last names are famous borderer names (Nixon, Johnston, Graham).

The colonial frontier and Appalachian regions were populated by lots of folk from that region; the guy that wrote Albion's Seed argued that it shaped political culture up to the present day.

Main thing I recall from the US histories of the region was the repeated legislation banning eye gouging which was apparently a very common practice.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 14, 2016, 10:41:21 PM
Mainly for Oex, but my aunt got me a very belated Amazon gift card and this is what came in the mail today:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs31.postimg.org%2Fexze03hez%2Frsz_img_20160614_203313209_1.jpg&hash=1cb278df9b4db45665a2aef597c3f1c2236b71d6)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2016, 11:41:43 PM
Nothing like some Schmitt to debunk the "CM is an antisemite" myth.  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 16, 2016, 05:16:30 AM
:lol:  Considering he comes right after Heidegger in terms of philosophical/jurisprudential influence... not to mention the extensive of L-F Céline and Ernst Jünger collection residing on the fiction-end of the bookshelf, I guess I'not m doing myself any favors. :unsure: 

Plus a biography of Robert Brasillach, the only French collabo to be executed (rather controversially, even at the peak of the épuration légale) for "intellectual crimes," with no allegation that he collaborated in any political or military fashion.

Hell, look at the book on the left in the particular; maybe I'll get a rep as anti-Mason as well as anti-Jew, and wind upbelieving Dreyfus was truly guilty of treason towards France. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 16, 2016, 08:03:30 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 14, 2016, 04:55:53 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 14, 2016, 03:57:35 PM
Interesting, too, that so many of the famous family names from the bloody border regions are later found prominently in North America - he mentions how, in a presidential campaign, President Nixon was holding a press conference with Johnston and Billy Graham: all three last names are famous borderer names (Nixon, Johnston, Graham).

The colonial frontier and Appalachian regions were populated by lots of folk from that region; the guy that wrote Albion's Seed argued that it shaped political culture up to the present day.

Main thing I recall from the US histories of the region was the repeated legislation banning eye gouging which was apparently a very common practice.

Heh why is that not surprising?  :lol:

Though to read this book, it sounds like the Anglo-Scottish border made the colonial frontier look like kindergarten.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on June 16, 2016, 08:13:47 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 14, 2016, 10:41:21 PM
Mainly for Oex, but my aunt got me a very belated Amazon gift card and this is what came in the mail today:


Malthus's aunt also got a gift today.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on July 02, 2016, 08:18:22 AM
Anyone know any decent books about India before the British?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 02, 2016, 10:29:00 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 02, 2016, 08:18:22 AM
Anyone know any decent books about India before the British?

No, but I wish I did. Sadly, from what little I've seen, histories of India prior to colonialism are scarce and tend to be textbook-y.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 02, 2016, 10:30:55 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 02, 2016, 08:18:22 AM
Anyone know any decent books about India before the British?

No but shout if you find one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 02, 2016, 10:33:36 AM
Anyone know any good book on supply in WW2? How different countries supplied their troops and stuff? Similarities and differences in methods, priorities, volumes?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 02, 2016, 11:31:39 AM
I liked The Mughal Throne by Abraham Eraly though it has been several years since I read it. Covers 1525-1707.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 07, 2016, 06:34:08 AM
Truly the past is a different country.

QuoteThis story comes from one of the French fabliaux of the late twelfth century.

A fisherman has married a young wife, whom he satisfies sexually, in the words of the poem:   A young and well-fed healthy wife Wants frequent fucking all her life.  

She claims that she loves him because he supports her and buys her things; he says it's only for the sake of sex.  

 
... I earn Your love by working for your pleasure. Never for finery or treasure Do women love their lords the way They do for screwing's what I say.  
(Note how different this is from a contemporary scenario, in which a wife would be much more likely to protest that she loves her husband for the great sex, while he would accuse her of wanting him only as a meal ticket.)

The fisherman finds a dead body in the water one day – a priest who had drowned while escaping from a jealous husband – and decides to test his wife. He cuts off the penis and takes it to his wife, claiming that it is his, cut off when he was attacked by three knights.

She immediately says to him:   God shorten all your days on earth. I hate you. Now your body's worth Nothing. ...

  She makes ready to leave the house, but he calls her back and tells her God has miraculously restored him. She says:   Today you frightened me no end. I never had such a fright before,   while embracing him, and holding his penis, just to be sure.14

Karras, Ruth Mazo. Sexuality in Medieval Europe: Doing Unto Others (Kindle Locations 456-458). Taylor and Francis. Kindle Edition.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 15, 2016, 07:56:58 AM
I came across one of my dad's old textbooks, English Political Thought in the 19th Century by C Brinton.  My father was a history major (which is one of the major reasons I have a degree in electrical engineering ;).)  The book was first published in 1932 and was still regarded as a standard treatise on the subject in the late 60s (it's out of print today).  It goes through and provides a mini-biography and overview of the writings of each thinker.  The thinkers range from rabble rousers like Cobbett, to statesman like Disraeli, to philosophers like Bentham and Mill to wild cards like Newman (:pope:) and Coleridge.  Curiously there's almost no mention of the empire; James Kidd is presented as its only proponent.  (In the preface the author laments not including Kipling as a representative of the Imperial point of view.  (He also laments being critical of the relationship between Harriett Taylor and John Stuart Mill; even though he still can't find anything likable in Taylor.))  The other thing I found curious is that how many of the thinkers were influenced by religion (even Mill wrote a book on metaphysics); finding justification for such divergent views as laissez-faire capitalism and Christian socialism in their faiths.

With the publications of Darwin some eugenics slipped into thought of the period.  The most amusing view I found (I forget the thinker who was influenced by this) is that the Teutonic peoples were superior to the Latin people of the Mediterranean, which is why they had conquered the Roman empire.  The most purely Teutonic (and therefore the best) people were, of course, the English.  However this Teutonic superiority not universal for the Franks were every bit as degenerate and weak as the people they conquered (suck it frogs  :P).

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 15, 2016, 10:05:58 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 07, 2016, 06:34:08 AM
Truly the past is a different country.

The French medieval countryside was not known for its variety of entertainment and shopping options.
Got to have some way to pass the time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on July 15, 2016, 10:55:56 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 02, 2016, 08:18:22 AM
Anyone know any decent books about India before the British?

City of Djinns by Dalrymple is very good, part travel book part history (of Delhi)

John Keays has done a reasonable one volume history of India

Obviously both cover pre and post British rule

There was a well-received book on Ashoka a few years ago.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 15, 2016, 12:01:40 PM
I read the Keay book - spreads itself very thin covering so much ground but worked quite nicely for someone (like me) with very little prior knowledge.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on July 22, 2016, 08:05:14 AM
It is probably indicative of some kind of mental illness that even now, 10 years after I started doing it, I still find myself checking George RR Martin's Not A Blog everyday just to see. Something that has only born fruit once in all this time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 22, 2016, 11:40:39 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 07, 2016, 06:34:08 AM
Truly the past is a different country.

Most verily, 'tis true; it is but a numbering clock.  Assmunch.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 22, 2016, 07:34:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 22, 2016, 08:05:14 AM
It is probably indicative of some kind of mental illness that even now, 10 years after I started doing it, I still find myself checking George RR Martin's Not A Blog everyday just to see. Something that has only born fruit once in all this time.

Sucker
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on July 23, 2016, 10:25:54 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 22, 2016, 07:34:33 PM
Sucker

I know.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 25, 2016, 09:38:36 AM
In anticipation of the upcoming Trump presidency I read Reflections on the Revolution in France by Edmund Burke; now I have the strangest urge to buy a pair of pleated pants :unsure:.

;)

This book has some faults.  Like Cicero (whom Burke quotes extensively) before him, Burke is stuck trying to make the case that the then existing order was the best possible government.  Also Burke wasn't the best informed about the state of revolutionary France; his description of the October March, for instance, verges on an high drama.  Even so, the book is remarkably prescient; from 1790 he foresaw the death of the King and Queen (though he thought Marie Antoinette would be killed first), the counter revolutions, the terror, and the rise of a military dictatorship.  His explanation as to why the disaster was to unfold (that it was based purely on the abstract and done by people with no experience in government) I find satisfactory; though there are certainly other interpretations.  (Hannah Arendt thought it was because the French cared about the poor.  The American Revolution was considerably more successful since we did not; a trend that's lived on for 240 years, and counting.   ;))

The book is filled with a number of quotes from antiquity.  One that I'm keeping in mind for the Trump presidency is from a play by Naevius: "Tell me how did you ruin so mighty a state so quickly?"
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on July 25, 2016, 05:10:27 PM
I'm looking for a good but entry level book into Roman history. Suggestions?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 25, 2016, 05:24:39 PM
Quote from: Josephus on July 25, 2016, 05:10:27 PM
I'm looking for a good but entry level book into Roman history. Suggestions?

"The Classical World: An Epic History from Homer to Hadrian" by Robin Lane Fox covers more ground than that, but I thought it did an extremely good job of covering the really important Roman shit.  Very good job of explaining the political machinations of Caesar et al.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 25, 2016, 07:33:15 PM
Yo Sav-on-a-Kaiser Rola: Just read a review of "Oh Florida: How America's Weirdest State Influences the Rest of the Country," by Craig Pittman.  You might want to check out.

Fair warning: the author is a Slate contributor.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on July 25, 2016, 07:53:31 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 25, 2016, 09:38:36 AM
In anticipation of the upcoming Trump presidency I read Reflections on the Revolution in France by Edmund Burke; now I have the strangest urge to buy a pair of pleated pants :unsure:.

:D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on July 26, 2016, 01:24:49 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 25, 2016, 07:53:31 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 25, 2016, 09:38:36 AM
In anticipation of the upcoming Trump presidency I read Reflections on the Revolution in France by Edmund Burke; now I have the strangest urge to buy a pair of pleated pants :unsure:.

:D

:thumbsup:

You could learn a lot, Sav.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on July 26, 2016, 01:50:27 AM
Quote from: Josephus on July 25, 2016, 05:10:27 PM
I'm looking for a good but entry level book into Roman history. Suggestions?

SPQR by Mary Beard is excellent.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on July 26, 2016, 07:53:59 AM
Quote from: Gups on July 26, 2016, 01:50:27 AM
Quote from: Josephus on July 25, 2016, 05:10:27 PM
I'm looking for a good but entry level book into Roman history. Suggestions?

SPQR by Mary Beard is excellent.


Tom Holland's Rubicon is also a place to start for the last days of the Rubicon.  And anything by Anthony Everitt is very accessible.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on July 26, 2016, 12:10:29 PM
Mommsen, then Gibbon. None of this newfangled stuff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on July 28, 2016, 08:00:55 AM


thanks for the suggestions.

I spent two days in Rome recently and realized I know very little about its history

:)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on July 29, 2016, 10:27:44 PM
Didn't know Dylan Thomas spent several extended periods in the 1930s/40s living about a mile from here.

He writes to a friend about it:

Quote
Thomas once wrote to a friend about staying at the Macnamara home: "This flat English country levels the intelligence, planes down the imagination, narrows the a's, my ears belch up old wax and misremembered passages of misunderstood music, I sit and hate my mother-in-law, glowering at her from corners and grumbling about her in the sad, sticky, quiet of the lavatory..."

So that's what happened to me.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 02, 2016, 08:20:28 AM
Quote from: Gups on July 26, 2016, 01:50:27 AM
Quote from: Josephus on July 25, 2016, 05:10:27 PM
I'm looking for a good but entry level book into Roman history. Suggestions?

SPQR by Mary Beard is excellent.

I just read another book by Beard - The Fires of Vesuvius. Very good, I thought.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on August 02, 2016, 08:34:21 AM
I was going to start reading SPQR and then realised Amazon had that Amazon had it for £6 cheaper. -_-
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 04, 2016, 01:05:26 PM
Reading Thug: The True Story of India's Murderous Cult by Mike Dash. Fascinating stuff.

Apparently, there's a bit of a controversy over the reality of the Thugs: a theory extant that the whole notion was, basically, a creation of colonial Brits, to justify their rule. This author doesn't agree at all with that theory (too much detailed evidence against it), though he points out that the depredations/death counts of the Thugs were much exaggerated (basically to boost the careers of those Brits who put them down); also, that their nature was described incorrectly (they were not motivated by religious concerns, although they were very superstitious - they were strictly motivated by making a living at murdering travelers, so the "murderous cult" part of the title is a bit of a misnomer).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 14, 2016, 04:10:24 AM
Just got delivery of the new book Kangzhan: Guide to Chinese ground forces 1937-45. AFAIK the first time this kind of detailed information is available in English. I would really like to see Western interest in the Sino-Japanese war increase and the trend right now seems decent (but starting from almost zero of course).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 15, 2016, 04:54:23 PM
Was inspired by watching Bored to Death (surprising acting ability demonstrated by Ted Danson) to pick up a brace of Raymond Chandler books, also a history of the War of the Roses.

Was William of Normandy the founder of the Plantagenat line?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: dps on August 15, 2016, 05:01:28 PM
No.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 15, 2016, 07:50:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 15, 2016, 04:54:23 PM
Was inspired by watching Bored to Death (surprising acting ability demonstrated by Ted Danson) to pick up a brace of Raymond Chandler books, also a history of the War of the Roses.

Was William of Normandy the founder of the Plantagenat line?

You need the History of England podcast.


It is very good.  And as a bonus he is just finishing the time period you are most interested in.



http://historyofengland.typepad.com/
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 15, 2016, 08:01:07 PM
This is also meant to be very good general history if you're interested :)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/English-their-History-Robert-Tombs/dp/0141031654
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on August 16, 2016, 12:18:33 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 15, 2016, 04:54:23 PM
Was inspired by watching Bored to Death (surprising acting ability demonstrated by Ted Danson) to pick up a brace of Raymond Chandler books, also a history of the War of the Roses.

Was William of Normandy the founder of the Plantagenat line?

Henry Ii
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Queequeg on August 29, 2016, 05:21:00 AM
Anyone know any good books about Sub-Saharan Africa + Ethiopia from around 1965-2000? I'm interested in anything looking at the collapse of post-Colonial administrations and rose of figures like Kagame. I just finished We  Wish to Inform You That Tomorrow We Will Be Killed With Our Families and it was mind blowing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 29, 2016, 05:34:10 AM
Maybe try something like Martin Meredith's 'The State of Africa' and then look in the bibliography/footnotes for more specific books?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 03, 2016, 01:34:18 AM
I got a hankering for a wholesome tale of two punch drunk boxers.


THE IRAN-IRAQ WAR by PIERRE RAZOUX





Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on September 03, 2016, 05:17:28 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 29, 2016, 05:21:00 AM
Anyone know any good books about Sub-Saharan Africa + Ethiopia from around 1965-2000? I'm interested in anything looking at the collapse of post-Colonial administrations and rose of figures like Kagame. I just finished We  Wish to Inform You That Tomorrow We Will Be Killed With Our Families and it was mind blowing.

Ryszard Kapuscinski "Shadow of the Sun" is fantastic, one of my favourite books. He also wrote a book on the downfall of Selassie which is highly regarded though I've not read it myself.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 05, 2016, 05:27:33 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 03, 2016, 01:34:18 AM
I got a hankering for a wholesome tale of two punch drunk boxers.


THE IRAN-IRAQ WAR by PIERRE RAZOUX

So far very well layout book. He uses recordings Hussein made during that time and captured in 2003. The cloak and dagger suit behind the scenes is entertaining.

I always thought the Iraqis used the Mirage F-1 in the attack. Turns out a captured modified Falcon 50 was the culprit.

The author also gives just credit to the Iranian AF.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2016, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 25, 2016, 09:38:36 AM
In anticipation of the upcoming Trump presidency I read Reflections on the Revolution in France by Edmund Burke; now I have the strangest urge to buy a pair of pleated pants :unsure:.

;)

This book has some faults.  Like Cicero (whom Burke quotes extensively) before him, Burke is stuck trying to make the case that the then existing order was the best possible government.  Also Burke wasn't the best informed about the state of revolutionary France; his description of the October March, for instance, verges on an high drama.  Even so, the book is remarkably prescient; from 1790 he foresaw the death of the King and Queen (though he thought Marie Antoinette would be killed first), the counter revolutions, the terror, and the rise of a military dictatorship.  His explanation as to why the disaster was to unfold (that it was based purely on the abstract and done by people with no experience in government) I find satisfactory; though there are certainly other interpretations.  (Hannah Arendt thought it was because the French cared about the poor. The American Revolution was considerably more successful since we did not ; a trend that's lived on for 240 years, and counting.   ;)

Don't those two go hand in hand. ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2016, 10:12:15 PM
Can anyone suggest a good book on Alexander the Great?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 06, 2016, 01:46:01 AM
Alexander the Geat was actually from Sweden.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 06, 2016, 03:55:40 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2016, 10:12:15 PM
Can anyone suggest a good book on Alexander the Great?

I can suggest a song.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 06, 2016, 06:42:15 AM
Quote from: Gups on July 26, 2016, 01:50:27 AM
Quote from: Josephus on July 25, 2016, 05:10:27 PM
I'm looking for a good but entry level book into Roman history. Suggestions?

SPQR by Mary Beard is excellent.

I've really been enjoying this (and her writing is lovely) but I don't know how good it is as an intro look into Roman History. She spends a lot of time working thematically, so it feels like without some basic grounding of key roman events, persons, timelines...well you don't get a lot of that in a coherent fashion.

Also, as this NYT review attests, she does seem to spend a lot of time challenging typical narratives and facts we have about Roman. I think that works well, again, for someone who has learned those narratives and 'facts' but I wonder how well that works as someone new to it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/18/books/review-in-spqr-a-history-of-ancient-rome-mary-beard-tackles-myths-and-more.html?_r=0

QuoteIn 'SPQR: A History of Ancient Rome,' Mary Beard Tackles Myths and More

Mary Beard is well known in England, so much so that when the magazine The Oldie — that country's vastly more sophisticated version of our AARP magazine — named her its 2013 pinup of the year, no one had to ask: Who?

Ms. Beard is a professor of classics at Cambridge University, the author of a shelf of books, a stalwart on BBC television and radio, and the author of a witty and combative blog, "A Don's Life," written for the website of The Times Literary Supplement.

The publication of her new book, "SPQR: A History of Ancient Rome," feels like a potential crossover moment. Ms. Beard was profiled in The New Yorker last year (expertly, by Rebecca Mead), yet her renown has not fully made the leap over the Atlantic Ocean.

"SPQR" — the title derives from an acronym of the Latin phrase Senatus PopulusQue Romanus, meaning "the senate and people of Rome" — is a sprawling but humane volume that examines nearly 1,000 years in the early history of that teeming city and empire.

Ms. Beard takes up Rome's foundational myth of Romulus and Remus (those abandoned twins, said to have been suckled by a lactating wolf) and moves us through A.D. 212, when Emperor Caracalla made the revolutionary declaration that all free inhabitants of the vast Roman empire, wherever they lived, were now Roman citizens.

In between, she considers the lives and meanings of figures like Julius Caesar, Hannibal, Spartacus, Nero, Cleopatra, Augustus and Caligula (it is typical of her to remind us that "Caligula" is a childhood nickname that roughly means "Bootikins"), while attending to the writers who chronicled the age: men like Cicero, Livy, Horace, Virgil and Pliny the Younger.

By necessity this book is, more often than not, a history of great men. Early on, at least, Roman peasants left few historical traces. Wood and straw do not survive the way marble does.

Women were subordinate to their husbands and left behind little writing. "The autobiography of the emperor Nero's mother, Agrippina," Ms. Beard writes of the missing book, "must count as one of the saddest losses of classical literature." When solid information about everyday life in Rome begins to emerge in the historical record, however, Ms. Beard pays rapt attention.

She is a debunker and a complicator. Do not come to this book for grand vistas, magisterial certainty or pinpoint war strategy. She refers to the Battle of Actium in 31 B.C., for example, as "a rather low-key, slightly tawdry affair" and then adds, in a very Beardian aside, "Perhaps more decisive military engagements are low-key and tawdry than we tend to imagine."

About Edward Gibbon, whose multivolume "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" began to be published in 1776, Ms. Beard comments that he "lived in an age when historians made judgments" without hesitation. She will not be of that sort.

It's a weakness of "SPQR" that Ms. Beard seems more eager to tell us what historians don't know than what they do. She is so subtle, hedging every bet, that the ceiling fans sometimes cease to circulate the air.

You push past this book's occasional unventilated corner, however, because Ms. Beard is competent and charming company. In "SPQR" she pulls off the difficult feat of deliberating at length on the largest intellectual and moral issues her subject presents (liberty, beauty, citizenship, power) while maintaining an intimate tone.

"In some ways, to explore ancient Rome from the 21st century is rather like walking on a tightrope, a very careful balancing act," she writes. "If you look down on one side, everything seems reassuringly familiar: there are conversations going on that we almost join, about the nature of freedom or the problems of sex; there are buildings and monuments we recognize and family life lived out in ways we understand, with all their troublesome adolescents; and there are jokes that we 'get.'"

"On the other side, it seems completely alien territory. That means not just the slavery, the filth (there was hardly any such thing as refuse collection in ancient Rome), the human slaughter in the arena and the death from illnesses whose cure we now take for granted; but also the newborn babies thrown away on rubbish heaps, the child brides and the flamboyant eunuch priests."

Ms. Beard's prose is never mandarin, yet she treats her readers like peers. She pulls us into the faculty lounge and remarks about debates that can make or end academic careers. She prints a drawing of Pliny the Younger's immense villa, for example, and remarks, "It has been a favorite scholarly pastime for centuries to take Pliny's own description of the place and to try to re-create an image or plan of it."

She is consistently but not deformingly alert to irony, to satire, to humor in its high and low forms. Sometimes she merely has to supply the details. She notes that one Roman contraception technique involved "wearing the worms found in the head of a particular species of hairy spider." She enjoys cataloging ancient put-downs. "You baldy" is among the few that can be printed here.

Just as often the humor is a byproduct of her myth-busting stride across the territory. About Caligula, for example, she writes: "The idea of some modern scholars that his dinner parties came close to orgies, with his sisters 'underneath' him and his wife 'on top,' rests simply on a mistranslation of the words of Suetonius, who is referring to the place settings — 'above' and 'below' — at a Roman dining table." Yes, this is how rumors start.

You come to Ms. Beard's books to meet her as much as her subjects. They are idiosyncratic and offbeat, which is to say, pleasingly hers.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on September 06, 2016, 11:30:36 AM
Don't disagree with you or with the review.

That said, I don't think it's really possible to do a decent entry level narrative overview of Roman history. Not in one volume any way.

I also like the fact that Beard acknowledges the uncertainty and imperfection of historical knowledge.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 06, 2016, 01:14:52 PM
I haven't read the Beard book - that review makes it more likely I will.   Accurate knowledge about the ancient past is very slippery and a suitably hedging presentation is preferable to a more coherent, but unreliable narrative.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 06, 2016, 01:15:25 PM
It is very fun.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 06, 2016, 01:24:16 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 06, 2016, 01:14:52 PM
I haven't read the Beard book - that review makes it more likely I will.   Accurate knowledge about the ancient past is very slippery and a suitably hedging presentation is preferable to a more coherent, but unreliable narrative.

Preferable depending on what you are reading it for and your level of knowledge of the subject.

In this case, the ask was for an entry-level one-volume book on Roman history. For that use, I would not mind a coherent if unreliable narrative. One has to know the basic narrative (unreliable though it be) before the controversies and hedging makes any sense.

Some history books can be very frustrating for this reason - they are reacting against an established narrative, and so they rely on the reader already having a close knowledge of that established narrative (which the author of course has). If the reader lacks that knowledge, they can't really follow the arguments, and so they won't learn much from the book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 06, 2016, 03:59:20 PM
One of the first history books I read on late antiquity/early ME was a monograph by Walter Goffart on barbarian land settlements, attacking the prevailing view on those settlements.  I then proceeded to read a number of other books in the vein, although broader thematically.  It'a way of jumping in to a particular area.  In the era of Wikipedia where basic information on people and dates is easily available it's a workable strategy, although I could see why others might not like doing it that way.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 06, 2016, 04:47:49 PM
Done

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F41km5PP-7BL._SY445_QL70_.jpg&hash=9af87f17405c2c2ad1c9979df39d191b08c7e349)


Time to compare with it with Cordesman & Wagner's book I read a few years ago. The above book has the benefit of the tape recorded staff/planning meetings captured in 2003. Saddam recorded all of them during the war. Not that he was paranoid or anything.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51OI0GRQGjL._SY344_BO1%2C204%2C203%2C200_.jpg&hash=56cbfbe7ba061bffc5c241bb467d2395cda37fcf)

also these
I N S T I T U T E F O R D E F E N S E A N A L Y S E S
IDA Document D-3530
Project 1946


I N S T I T U T E F O R D E F E N S E A N A L Y S E S
IDA Document D-4121
July 2010
Project 1946: Phase II

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 06, 2016, 04:56:25 PM
 :lol:  Saddam, how we miss you so. You fucking psycho.

Hey, 11B, you ever read Grau's Soviet stuff, like
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ovjpPnMfL._SX319_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 06, 2016, 05:00:23 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 06, 2016, 04:56:25 PM
:lol:  Saddam, how we miss you so. You fucking psycho.

Hey, 11B, you ever read Grau's Soviet stuff, like
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ovjpPnMfL._SX319_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

That is on the list. Recommended?

Amazon
QuoteDefinitely a manual/lessons learned for Soviet leaders or those who have to read it for a class, etc...

Right up my alley. Give me the facts not a story. :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 06, 2016, 05:02:30 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 06, 2016, 03:59:20 PM
One of the first history books I read on late antiquity/early ME was a monograph by Walter Goffart on barbarian land settlements, attacking the prevailing view on those settlements.  I then proceeded to read a number of other books in the vein, although broader thematically.  It'a way of jumping in to a particular area.  In the era of Wikipedia where basic information on people and dates is easily available it's a workable strategy, although I could see why others might not like doing it that way.

Sure, that can work for some. Trigger an interest and all that. 

But if someone asked for "a good but entry level book into the history of late antiquity", it would be slightly odd to hand them "a monograph by Walter Goffart on barbarian land settlements, attacking the prevailing view on those settlements".  ;) It just isn't what they asked for, exactly.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 06, 2016, 05:12:57 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 06, 2016, 05:00:23 PM
That is on the list. Recommended?

Amazon
QuoteDefinitely a manual/lessons learned for Soviet leaders or those who have to read it for a class, etc...

Right up my alley. Give me the facts not a story. :lol:

Lol, yeah, it's very AAR....I understand Grau gets some flak somewhat for "cornering the market" on post-Cold War Soviet military studies--maybe even still?--but IMHO, he works with sooo much primary source material, it's hard not to give him the nod. 

As far as self-examinationgoes, I think it's a pretty open and (for Russians, somewhat surprisingly) candid acknowledgement of their failures, particularly early in the conflict. 

How do you prosecute a set-piece doctrine when the other side has no pieces?   :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 06, 2016, 06:26:45 PM
How very Glantzian of him.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 06, 2016, 06:57:53 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 06, 2016, 05:02:30 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 06, 2016, 03:59:20 PM
One of the first history books I read on late antiquity/early ME was a monograph by Walter Goffart on barbarian land settlements, attacking the prevailing view on those settlements.  I then proceeded to read a number of other books in the vein, although broader thematically.  It'a way of jumping in to a particular area.  In the era of Wikipedia where basic information on people and dates is easily available it's a workable strategy, although I could see why others might not like doing it that way.

Sure, that can work for some. Trigger an interest and all that. 

But if someone asked for "a good but entry level book into the history of late antiquity", it would be slightly odd to hand them "a monograph by Walter Goffart on barbarian land settlements, attacking the prevailing view on those settlements".  ;) It just isn't what they asked for, exactly.

One book I thought that was quite good for piecing together a chronological history of Rome for a novice who is historically inclined (though old and suffering from the stance of portraying things as immutable facts) is 'A History of Rome To A.D. 565' by William G. Sinnigen & Arthur E.R. Boak. Appears first edition was 1921 but was at least a regularly updated text book into 1977 with Sinnigen taking over for a sixth edition once Boak was dead.

Various versions seem to be available on Amazon.com and Amazon.co.uk.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on September 07, 2016, 12:33:44 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2016, 10:12:15 PM
Can anyone suggest a good book on Alexander the Great?

I've always enjoyed the various works by A.B. Bosworth and N.G.L. Hammond.
Maybe not entry level stuff, though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 07, 2016, 12:44:03 AM
Quote from: Maladict on September 07, 2016, 12:33:44 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2016, 10:12:15 PM
Can anyone suggest a good book on Alexander the Great?

I've always enjoyed the various works by A.B. Bosworth and N.G.L. Hammond.
Maybe not entry level stuff, though.
Thanks for the rec. I'll take a look.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on September 07, 2016, 03:01:30 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 07, 2016, 12:44:03 AM
Quote from: Maladict on September 07, 2016, 12:33:44 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2016, 10:12:15 PM
Can anyone suggest a good book on Alexander the Great?

I've always enjoyed the various works by A.B. Bosworth and N.G.L. Hammond.
Maybe not entry level stuff, though.
Thanks for the rec. I'll take a look.

I read one by Robin Lane Fox a few years ago. I remember it being good but not outstanding. It's quite scholarly and he does question sources etc.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on September 07, 2016, 01:28:49 PM
Quote from: Gups on September 07, 2016, 03:01:30 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 07, 2016, 12:44:03 AM
Quote from: Maladict on September 07, 2016, 12:33:44 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2016, 10:12:15 PM
Can anyone suggest a good book on Alexander the Great?

I've always enjoyed the various works by A.B. Bosworth and N.G.L. Hammond.
Maybe not entry level stuff, though.
Thanks for the rec. I'll take a look.

I read one by Robin Lane Fox a few years ago. I remember it being good but not outstanding. It's quite scholarly and he does question sources etc.

Ernst Badian didn't think much of his book.
His review has become a classic in obscure circles:

Quote"This book, in typically redundant style, proclaims itself 'not a biography' (p. I I): 'Augustine, Cicero and perhaps the emperor Julian are the only figures from antiquity whose biography can be attempted, and Alexander is not among them' (sic: my italics). The author claims to have read I,472 books and articles, most of them useless. He promises to omit reference to 'those which attack each other or rely . .. on what we do not know, or else mistake the little we do' (500). One expects a work singularly free from polemic. In fact, massive parts of the commentaries (there are no notes, only running commentaries in small type) are devoted to sneers at Fox's predecessors, from the first page (503: 'Hamilton . . . disbelieves this on no grounds except a wish to discredit the story') to almost the last (550: 'Samuel ... adduces a Babylonian parallel which is irrelevant and anyway false'). What is normally lacking is actual argument: the ipse dixit suffices. Thus Tarn is said to be 'persistently mistaken both in method and evidence' (sic: we have seen that English is not Fox's forte) in nearly all his vol. 2, which 'has been ignored throughout the writing of this book'. In fact, Tarn, inevitably, is basic to many of Fox's interpretations. Indeed, his characteristic mannerism is to copy out his predecessors and cite them in obloquy. Thus (one instance among scores) C. B. Welles is frequently followed without acknowledg-ment (218: the route from Siwah; 59: Alexander's contribution to history), but mentioned only when his note on a statement in Diodorus is 'another of his blunders'.

Enough on ethics and style. Let us look at the positive content. The blurb promises a portrait of Alexander against the background of the Eastern world. This is indeed very much needed and has never been properly attempted. No wonder: it requires competence in many languages, massive study of scattered archaeological reports and acquain-tance with vast and often inaccessible areas. Let us test the author's qualifications.

Knowledge of Greek is surely basic. One shudders at ignorance of the meaning of fldpflapo; (103 et al.), at phrases like amphistome taxis (527). But the standard mark of elementary deficiency is unverified use of Loeb translations. Here Fox has been unfortunate: he has placed naive trust in the Loeb Arrian, long known as incompetent to scholars familiar with this field. He has based some of his theories precisely on blunders in that translation. Thus he makes Sardis a 'free city' (128) on the basis of its 'tribute, contributions and offerings' [his quotation marks] and uses this (516) to sneer at one of my suggestions. So far from consulting the Greek text, he has not even consulted a good translation like Hamilton's: he has adapted what he got straight from the ass's mouth ('taxes, contributions, and tribute'-Loeb). Arr. i I7.7 (Nicias is in charge rtv yidpwv xri acrvvxd$ed re Kai dOrpQopa~)is perfectly clear.

The major self-exposure comes in an argument that is also a characteristic instance of his use of sources. Plutarch names an Alexander in charge of a Thracian unit as the man justly killed by the heroic Timoclea. The source is probably Aristobulus; though Jacoby would not be positive. Fox identifies this Alexander with the Lyncestian-prima facie an absurdity, since the point of the story is precisely that the villain was killed. But F. has an answer: Aristobulus was deliberately trying to hide the fact that the Lyncestian Alexander was only arrested much later and executed after the 'conspiracy of Philotas'. The passage is therefore 'of some significance for the source-history of Alexander' (517).

That the death of one of the most eminent men in the kingdom could be thus misreported, even by a kolax like Aristobulus, would take a good deal of proving. What is the proof ? First, that Alexander the Lyncestian was 'known to be present with an army of Thracians at Thebes' (I46). In the commentary (517) the surprising statement is divided and hedged about: 'Alex. of Lyncestis did lead Thracians in 335 (A. 1.25.1) and was certainly thought [sic!] to be present at Thebes (A. 1.7.6).' Now, the latter is misleading to a degree: Arrian reports that, when the Theban leaders who had claimed that Alexander was dead were faced with reports that 'Alexander' was personally leading an army against Thebes, they said that was another Alexander, the Lyncestian. Whether they believed this or not is beside the point: the fact is that the 'presence' of Alexander the Lyncestian with the army was a false tale, due to either confusion or a lie. He is never mentioned as actually with the army. But it is the statement that this Alexander 'did lead Thracians in 335' that shows the author's methods to the full. Arrian i 25 reports that the Lyncestian was made commander in Thrace (at some unspecified time after his namesake's accession) and that, when Calas received a satrapy in 334, he succeeded to Calas' command of the Thessalian cavalry. Unfortunately for F., the Loeb here surpasses itself and twice prints 'Thracian' for 'Thessalian' cavalry as the force under Alexander. And this is the only 'evidence', ancient or modern, that Alexander of Lyncestis ever 'led Thracians' (though in 334 and not in 335).

Let this suffice to illustrate F.'s competence both in language and in historical method. It is difficult to believe him, after this, when he claims to have con-sulted cuneiform Akkadian sources in the original (516: he refers to an edition without translation, and no reference is given to existing translations); all the more so when the translations one can find do not bear out the author's claim as to their contents. Moreover, the source is cited (502) as 'Yale Expedi-tion to Babylon', whereas it is in fact Hilprecht's Babylonian Expedition of the University of Pennsylvania-so that the abbreviation he uses ('B.E.') does not even fit his imaginary title: it must be taken over from whatever uncited immediate source he actually used. The reader is meant to be impressed rather than to check. That technique is frequent, e.g. (at random) when the assertion (505) that 'There are enough campaigns against Illyria [sic-whatever that means] of which nothing is known', advanced to support the fantasy of one not long before Philip's death, is based on three references: one to a speech in Curtius and two to Frontinus (neither referring to Illyria); or when the assertion (35) that the army reached its verdict in trials by spear-clashing and 'It was the king who decided for which verdict they had clashed the louder' is supported (506) by a single reference to Curt. x 7.14, where there is no trace of a trial or of the king. Some of these cases are masterpieces of muddled ignorance over any number of fields, as when we are told (112, with commentary) that Alexander, 'As ruler of the Thessalians', stopped 'Locri in Thessaly' from sending the tribute of noble maidens to Troy. None of the three scholars cited (Momigliano, with the wrong journal; Manni, with a false title; and G. L. Huxley) puts the intermission of the tribute, connected by our source with the end of the 'Phocian War', under Alexander; and none of them, certainly, puts the Locrians in Thessaly.

F.'s knowledge of Iranian geography stands on the same level. Alexander continues 'northwards at furious speed from Hamadan', for eleven days, to reach Rhagae (268 f.); even if he followed the modern road to Qazvin, it would be northeast, and that for a small part of the way: the ancient caravan routes, which he presumably did follow, lead (on the whole) due east-as a glance at a map would show. Though 'Iranian problems . . . have . . . become a primary enticement' for the author (12), he has clearly not thought a map of Iran worth that glance.

Grave ignorance of geography suffices to play havoc with an account of Alexander's campaigns. Fox takes little notice of either ancient or modern discussions of the topography of Gaugamela; his discussion of Issus is vitiated by his ignorance of the fact that there have been major changes in the coast-line since antiquity: his attempts to localise the battle on a particular stretch of coastal plain are useless. His fanciful treatment of Granicus is new only in his failure to refer to the one careful investiga-tion of the topography, Colonel A. Janke's early this century. For Fox these problems are entirely literary: his treatment of Granicus suitably trails off into an indifferent translation of a Cavafy poem.

This purely literary approach, reinforced by a rhetorical and sententious style, inevitably goes with a lack of real interest not only in geography, but in all practical matters, such as organisation, logistics, military and naval affairs, and in social history. A strange and implausible view on the quinquereme is propounded (186) without discussion, and in ignorance of Morrison and Williams, Greek Oared Ships. Greek citizen hoplites are described as 'Greece's landed aristocrats' (72); Thucydides' famous passage on the hoplite line's drift to the right is misunder-stood to mean that the soldier's right was his 'shielded side'; and it is claimed that in consequence generals 'usually placed their strongest units on their respec-tive lefts' (73)-as arrant a mass of nonsense as has ever been written on Greek armies. Two anecdotal accounts are conflated and misunderstood, to pro-duce the claim (72) that Philip forced his army 'to march for thirty miles at a time in high summer with thirty days' supplies on their backs'. Fox clearly lacks not only experience of marching or camping, but interest in it; not to mention ability to use historical sources. (In fact Frontinus iv 1.6 refers to 'thirty days' flour' carried to summer camp; the marches of 300 stadia under arms are in Polyaenus iv 2.IO, specifying that the men carried one day's food.)

One could go on. There is not a chapter without similar gross errors and absurdities. This book astoundingly fails to fulfil its announced purpose. The author has neither the training nor the inclination for serious scholarship. Despite the displays of 'erudition' and the arrogant polemics against scholars whose work he appropriates, this is essentially 'a good yarn', though rather long: an adventure story mid-way between historical journalism and historical fiction.

E. BADIAN Harvard University"

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 08, 2016, 12:45:09 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 06, 2016, 04:47:49 PM


also these
I N S T I T U T E F O R D E F E N S E A N A L Y S E S
IDA Document D-3530
Project 1946


I N S T I T U T E F O R D E F E N S E A N A L Y S E S
IDA Document D-4121
July 2010
Project 1946: Phase II


Very interesting readings
Lieutenant General Ra'ad Majid Rashid al-Hamdani and Major General (ret) Aladdin Hussein Makki Khamas monographs are fascinating.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 08, 2016, 12:54:32 PM
Finished Ambrose's Band of Brothers. Now reading Beevor's World War 2. While I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the ETO of WW2, I haven't really read any books on it (PTO is a bit of a blind spot for me besides a few well known campaigns).

I was amused that there was a Chinese general or governor named Chang Ching-Chong (or another arrangement of these three syllables).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2016, 08:58:11 PM
So one of the guys at work was telling me how his son--7th grade, IIRC--just finished The Diary of Anne Frank.  It was most definitely not the ending he expected.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 13, 2016, 08:42:52 AM
Picked up SPQR and I am enjoying it.  Thanks to whoever first suggested it  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 13, 2016, 08:55:43 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2016, 08:58:11 PM
So one of the guys at work was telling me how his son--7th grade, IIRC--just finished The Diary of Anne Frank.  It was most definitely not the ending he expected.

Send him Sav's version.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 13, 2016, 08:59:02 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2016, 08:58:11 PM
So one of the guys at work was telling me how his son--7th grade, IIRC--just finished The Diary of Anne Frank.  It was most definitely not the ending he expected.

Well, it's always a cheap trick to kill the first person narrator and main character in the end.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 15, 2016, 08:39:16 PM
The Crossing of the Suez by General Saad el Shazly

or

The Dark Tower: The Gunslinger

Which one?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 15, 2016, 08:46:44 PM
You know which one.

The Suez ain't going anywhere.  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 15, 2016, 08:48:48 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 15, 2016, 08:46:44 PM
You know which one.

The Suez ain't going anywhere.  :lol:

Yeah  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 15, 2016, 09:25:09 PM
As I recently emptied out my storage unit and finally brought back the last of my things, I've been opening my boxes of books.  I have missed them so. :wub:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on September 15, 2016, 09:33:50 PM
I bought a Turtledove novel for 3 bucks. Boy, is it stinky!

I'm so ashamed.  :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 16, 2016, 08:20:03 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 15, 2016, 09:33:50 PM
I bought a Turtledove novel for 3 bucks. Boy, is it stinky!

I'm so ashamed.  :blush:

Check your meds levels stat
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 19, 2016, 03:22:59 PM
Listening to Toast on Toast, as read by author actor Steven Toast.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 19, 2016, 04:02:36 PM
In the middle of Esdaile's Napoleon's Wars - definite overlaps of interest with this group.  The twist is that although Napoleon is the protagonist, the focus is on the broader context of international relations.  So to take one example, some interesting discussion of Balkan politics in the context of Napoleon's maneuvering in Dalmatia and Russian diplomatic initiatives, another about how the British fiasco in South America impacted on developments on the continent in 1806-07; etc.  One annoyance is that Esdaile is very anti-Napoleon, often in a very personal and pseudo-psychological way (he is fairly open about his reliance on sources with some bias or reasons to shade their recollections).  Also, while usually frank about British diplomatic and strategic deficiencies, at times British boosterism breaks through, for example in his praising with faint damnation the shelling of Copenhagen.  It's not a huge problem is long as you discount the commentary but it could prove distracting.  Content is interesting though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 19, 2016, 08:22:01 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 15, 2016, 08:46:44 PM
You know which one.

The Suez ain't going anywhere.  :lol:

Half way through and it hasn't grabbed. Ill put it down for a little bit. Pfanz's Gettysburg The First Day
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 20, 2016, 02:28:48 AM
I'm into late 1940 in Beevor's WW2. I read the part about the initial hostilies in North Africa on the plane and had to laugh. First the Brits take 70 prisoners on the border -the Italian border troops hadn't been notified that there was a war going on. Soon after, the British capture an Italian general who was cruising in his car with his pregnant not-wife. He carried Italian military plans for the entire theater. And then the Italian military commander for North Africa gets shot down in his plane - by his own confused AA. :lol:

(The complete blunder in Greece is less hilarious but still amazing in its stupidity.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Archy on September 20, 2016, 05:30:30 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fallo-allo.wz.cz%2Fbertorelli.jpg&hash=a4eeecad6add332a595f5d2d3925031f4f593845)
What a Mistake-e to make-e
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 27, 2016, 12:40:14 PM
Also reading (about 1/3 in) For Whom The Bell Tolls by Metallica Hemingway.

In know that Hemingway tries to emulate the Spanish language in the dialogues which makes it pretty stilted.

Have any of our native Spanish speakers read the book and can comment on how well he achieves this (or how much he fails)?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 27, 2016, 12:41:20 PM
Also, what's the Spanish obsession with shitting in milk?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 11:02:28 PM
NYT review of Ullrich's first Hitler volume--
In 'Hitler,' an Ascent From 'Dunderhead' to Demagogue (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/books/hitler-ascent-volker-ullrich.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=mini-moth&region=top-stories-below&WT.nav=top-stories-below)

QuoteA new biography portrays Hitler as a clownish, deceitful narcissist who took control of a powerful nation thanks to slick propaganda and a dysfunctional elite that failed to block his rise.

Sound like anybody we know?  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on September 29, 2016, 09:57:38 AM
The last (probably) installment of the Johannes Cabal, Necromancer series has come out.  I think it was Malthus that recommended the first book ever so long ago now.

QuoteFans of Howard's witty prose and morbid humor will not be disappointed; his characteristic blend of horror, comedy, fantasy, and drama is particularly effective in this installment. Cabal remains an entertaining antihero whose complexities have deepened over time, and the conclusion of the narrative threads that have spanned the previous four Cabal books is both satisfying and touching.
http://www.publishersweekly.com/978-1-250-06997-9
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 29, 2016, 10:00:54 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 11:02:28 PM
NYT review of Ullrich's first Hitler volume--
In 'Hitler,' an Ascent From 'Dunderhead' to Demagogue (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/books/hitler-ascent-volker-ullrich.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=mini-moth&region=top-stories-below&WT.nav=top-stories-below)

QuoteA new biography portrays Hitler as a clownish, deceitful narcissist who took control of a powerful nation thanks to slick propaganda and a dysfunctional elite that failed to block his rise.

Sound like anybody we know?  :lol:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fscontent.cdninstagram.com%2Ft51.2885-15%2Fs750x750%2Fsh0.08%2Fe35%2F1389470_202717696768640_926657273_n.jpg&hash=91d23af1fd2aeb9fa22759d75baffb780a6e9520)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2016, 10:02:52 AM
Man O'Reilly loves writing books about men dying.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 29, 2016, 10:22:56 AM
Quote from: ulmont on September 29, 2016, 09:57:38 AM
The last (probably) installment of the Johannes Cabal, Necromancer series has come out.  I think it was Malthus that recommended the first book ever so long ago now.

QuoteFans of Howard's witty prose and morbid humor will not be disappointed; his characteristic blend of horror, comedy, fantasy, and drama is particularly effective in this installment. Cabal remains an entertaining antihero whose complexities have deepened over time, and the conclusion of the narrative threads that have spanned the previous four Cabal books is both satisfying and touching.
http://www.publishersweekly.com/978-1-250-06997-9

Probably was - I enjoy them. I own, but have not read, this particular installment.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 29, 2016, 11:19:32 AM
I eagerly await Donald's next book, "Retarded America."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on September 29, 2016, 12:22:09 PM
Speaking of Hitler biographies, which one should I read? Toland, Kershaw, Fest, someone else?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on September 29, 2016, 01:32:08 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 11:02:28 PM
NYT review of Ullrich's first Hitler volume--
In 'Hitler,' an Ascent From 'Dunderhead' to Demagogue (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/books/hitler-ascent-volker-ullrich.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=mini-moth&region=top-stories-below&WT.nav=top-stories-below)

QuoteA new biography portrays Hitler as a clownish, deceitful narcissist who took control of a powerful nation thanks to slick propaganda and a dysfunctional elite that failed to block his rise.

Sound like anybody we know?  :lol:

Dammit, I don't have subscription.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on September 29, 2016, 03:14:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 29, 2016, 01:32:08 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 11:02:28 PM
NYT review of Ullrich's first Hitler volume--
In 'Hitler,' an Ascent From 'Dunderhead' to Demagogue (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/books/hitler-ascent-volker-ullrich.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=mini-moth&region=top-stories-below&WT.nav=top-stories-below)

QuoteA new biography portrays Hitler as a clownish, deceitful narcissist who took control of a powerful nation thanks to slick propaganda and a dysfunctional elite that failed to block his rise.

Sound like anybody we know?  :lol:

Dammit, I don't have subscription.

I don't think CdM charges for his news-sheet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on October 04, 2016, 12:49:44 PM
I have long wanted to read a book about the conquest of the Aztecs.  Most recent books (since the 1960's), take the side of the indigenous inhabitants downplaying the less savory aspects of Aztec culture (and in some cases denying them) and damning as monsters.  I wanted something a bit more even handed.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AK78QCW/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1  Found this book and started reading.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 04, 2016, 01:48:28 PM
Old Mexico? Is there a New Mexico?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on October 07, 2016, 10:33:28 PM
7 & 7 and some light reading.

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14568078_10210379433673390_5720799033255262585_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=b44e56f744d9b22724d2a450942f731d&oe=58A0B300)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on October 07, 2016, 11:04:23 PM
St. Privat was one hell of a struggle.

Solferino and Gravelotte are kind of bizarre. Two massive and decisive battles in European history that have all but been forgotten it seems.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 07, 2016, 11:07:07 PM
Solferino will always be the battle that created the Red Cross.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on October 07, 2016, 11:34:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 07, 2016, 11:04:23 PM
St. Privat was one hell of a struggle.

Solferino and Gravelotte are kind of bizarre. Two massive and decisive battles in European history that have all but been forgotten it seems.

The Prussian should have lost that Spicheren, Mars la Tour, and Gravelotte. That's what fascinates me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 08, 2016, 01:05:38 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 07, 2016, 11:34:59 PM
The Prussian should have lost that Spicheren, Mars la Tour, and Gravelotte. That's what fascinates me.

Make your case.  I don't know Spicheren, but they had the numbers and equipment at Mars la Tour and Gravelotte, and the position at Mars la Tour.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on October 08, 2016, 02:57:29 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 08, 2016, 01:05:38 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 07, 2016, 11:34:59 PM
The Prussian should have lost that Spicheren, Mars la Tour, and Gravelotte. That's what fascinates me.

Make your case.  I don't know Spicheren, but they had the numbers and equipment at Mars la Tour and Gravelotte, and the position at Mars la Tour.

Prussians
Spicheren the prussians committed piecemeal. Roughly even match in numbers. French failed in critical reconnaissance and indecision. They had the forces to kick Steimetz reckless ass had they not been indecisive.



Mars la Tour prussians were heavily outnumbered in a meeting engagement and the Prussian committed their forces piecemeal again. They had no idea they were engaging the French Army of the Rhine. Alvensleben thought it was a rear guard. Really Yi, the Prussians had the numbers? You know nothing of the battle in that case. Study more.

Gravelotte prussians committed piecemeal again. Lack coordination. French command indecision saved a reckless Steinmetz again. Steinmetz was relieved of command after Gravelotte-St. Privat for nearly costing the battle.

Had the French been led with just a hint of ability. Those three battles most and likely would have turned out very poorly for the Prussians. They got lucky in all three.

Try reading something. Quit wasting my time.
Ascoli's Day of Battle
Henderson's Battle of Spicheren
etc.





Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 08, 2016, 08:52:59 AM
Yeah, don't take Yi's crap.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 08, 2016, 01:09:54 PM
Western Washington University drives the paint and dunks on Harvard, film at 11.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on October 28, 2016, 08:10:08 PM
Read Pfanz's Gettysburg 1st Day and on to his Second day of Gettysburg.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on November 09, 2016, 08:26:22 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 25, 2016, 09:38:36 AM
In anticipation of the upcoming Trump presidency I read Reflections on the Revolution in France by Edmund Burke; now I have the strangest urge to buy a pair of pleated pants :unsure:.

;)

This book has some faults.  Like Cicero (whom Burke quotes extensively) before him, Burke is stuck trying to make the case that the then existing order was the best possible government.  Also Burke wasn't the best informed about the state of revolutionary France; his description of the October March, for instance, verges on an high drama.  Even so, the book is remarkably prescient; from 1790 he foresaw the death of the King and Queen (though he thought Marie Antoinette would be killed first), the counter revolutions, the terror, and the rise of a military dictatorship.  His explanation as to why the disaster was to unfold (that it was based purely on the abstract and done by people with no experience in government) I find satisfactory; though there are certainly other interpretations.  (Hannah Arendt thought it was because the French cared about the poor.  The American Revolution was considerably more successful since we did not; a trend that's lived on for 240 years, and counting.   ;))

The book is filled with a number of quotes from antiquity.  One that I'm keeping in mind for the Trump presidency is from a play by Naevius: "Tell me how did you ruin so mighty a state so quickly?"

How I hate it when the joke is on me. <_<
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on November 09, 2016, 08:29:59 PM
Anyhow I read the Book of Ecclesiastes today and came across this line, which seemed relevant to the campaign:

Ecclesiastes 7:10:
QuoteSay not thou, What is the cause that the former days were better than these? for thou dost not inquire wisely concerning this.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 10, 2016, 01:11:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 07, 2016, 11:04:23 PM
Gravelotte

For Prussia/Germany, Sedan was the iconic battle of that war and that took major prominence in remembrance.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 10, 2016, 01:11:57 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on November 09, 2016, 08:26:22 PM
How I hate it when the joke is on me. <_<

What's up next, "It Can't Happen Here"? :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 10, 2016, 09:27:55 AM
There is a brand new book on the expeditions of Stephens and Catherwood!  :thumbsup:

https://www.amazon.ca/Jungle-Stone-Extraordinary-Discovery-Civilization/dp/0062407392/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478787595&sr=8-1&keywords=jungle+of+stone

I always thought this was one of the most exciting stories in the history of archaeology (it is about the pair who first popularized the discovery of the ancient Maya ruins - and made a truly incredible, in some ways never surpassed, series of detailed drawings of their artifacts - along the way having all sorts of bizarre adventures, a sort of cross between innocents abroad and Indiana Jones). Though I wonder what new this particular book brings to the tale.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on November 10, 2016, 07:53:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 10, 2016, 01:11:57 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on November 09, 2016, 08:26:22 PM
How I hate it when the joke is on me. <_<

What's up next, "It Can't Happen Here"? :P

I hope it's not a sign, but one of the books I posted about here in the post before post I quoted was "The Origins of Totalitarianism."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 14, 2016, 11:11:48 AM
Halfway though Jungle of Stone. It's a great read, though mostly taken from Stephens' own work, there's a lot of added detail.

The description of Catherwood's initial despair at attempting to draw Mayan sculpture really struck home to me - I've attempted the same thing, so I know exactly what he was talking about: the ornamentation and concepts are so alien to western-trained artists as to be basically incomprehensible; it is very hard to draw things you seriously don't understand, even with tools like a camera lucida (which I for one never used). Plus, the sheer complexity of it is daunting; plus he was drawing them in most uncertain conditions - in the middle of a malarial jungle during a civil war. Yet he eventually succeeded so well his drawings are still referenced today. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 19, 2016, 09:39:36 AM
I like browsing Amazon. They have really good recommendations in different categories.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2FHome%2520and%2520garden_zpsjh1gvnqy.jpg&hash=3a8376bcd56caf414cf470886760d70b9902def1)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 19, 2016, 10:05:15 AM
In Amazon's recommendations to me, there's DIY tools which is a picture of a lockpick set. :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 19, 2016, 10:16:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 19, 2016, 10:05:15 AM
In Amazon's recommendations to me, there's DIY tools which is a picture of a lockpick set. :hmm:

Actually, that is a really, really helpful skill to learn. :unsure: You know, like a hobby.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on November 19, 2016, 03:38:43 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 19, 2016, 09:39:36 AM
I like browsing Amazon. They have really good recommendations in different categories.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2FHome%2520and%2520garden_zpsjh1gvnqy.jpg&hash=3a8376bcd56caf414cf470886760d70b9902def1)

Didn't know you were a fan.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 19, 2016, 03:49:04 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 19, 2016, 03:38:43 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 19, 2016, 09:39:36 AM
I like browsing Amazon. They have really good recommendations in different categories.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2FHome%2520and%2520garden_zpsjh1gvnqy.jpg&hash=3a8376bcd56caf414cf470886760d70b9902def1)

Didn't know you were a fan.

Gardening is my escape from the cares and worries of everyday life.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Archy on November 21, 2016, 06:20:25 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 19, 2016, 10:05:15 AM
In Amazon's recommendations to me, there's DIY tools which is a picture of a lockpick set. :hmm:
They think you're a gentleman master thief :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 21, 2016, 06:51:55 AM
Quote from: Archy on November 21, 2016, 06:20:25 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 19, 2016, 10:05:15 AM
In Amazon's recommendations to me, there's DIY tools which is a picture of a lockpick set. :hmm:
They think you're a gentleman master thief :lol:

Actually just looked again and it isn't only a lockpick set, it comes with a lock too as it is a practice set.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on November 21, 2016, 10:32:40 AM
That's a very marketable black market skill to have. Even excluding the gentleman cambrioleur career. People get locked out of their apartments all the time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 21, 2016, 10:34:20 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 21, 2016, 10:32:40 AM
That's a very marketable black market skill to have. Even excluding the gentleman cambrioleur career. People get locked out of their apartments all the time.

For a good portion of the year, one could break into my flat using a credit card. -_-

When I was in NYC, I had experience breaking into my apt via the fire escape and a window that couldn't lock. I also had visions of being killed SVU style given how they had plots involving such a break-in. :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 23, 2016, 09:12:52 AM
Ordered two books for Christmas:

Roger Crowley - Conquerors: How Portugal Forged the First Global Impire (really enjoyed his books Empires of the Sea, and the one about the rise of Venice)
Richard J. Evans - The Pursuit of Power: Europe, 1815-1914
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 23, 2016, 11:42:38 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 23, 2016, 09:12:52 AM
Ordered two books for Christmas:

Roger Crowley - Conquerors: How Portugal Forged the First Global Impire (really enjoyed his books Empires of the Sea, and the one about the rise of Venice)
Richard J. Evans - The Pursuit of Power: Europe, 1815-1914

Thanks for mentioning the new Crowley book - I too liked the other two. Will look into this.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 27, 2016, 04:38:12 AM
Finished "War and Peace" :w00t:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 27, 2016, 04:43:53 AM
In German,  there's still no alternative to the Bergengrün translation of War and Peace. It's the only one to make an effort to preserve as much of the French dialogue as possibleinstead of translating it, too.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 27, 2016, 05:39:48 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 27, 2016, 04:38:12 AM
Finished "War and Peace" :w00t:

That's good. Now you can do like me and stop reading for the rest of your life.  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 27, 2016, 06:23:56 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 27, 2016, 05:39:48 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 27, 2016, 04:38:12 AM
Finished "War and Peace" :w00t:

That's good. Now you can do like me and stop reading for the rest of your life.  :P

Shit. I have to die?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 27, 2016, 06:25:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 27, 2016, 04:43:53 AM
In German,  there's still no alternative to the Bergengrün translation of War and Peace. It's the only one to make an effort to preserve as much of the French dialogue as possibleinstead of translating it, too.

I was reading a free version on Kindle. It helpfully put in parentheticals with translation for the French. :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on November 27, 2016, 09:05:22 PM
Hell in Harlan by George Titler.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 28, 2016, 03:47:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 27, 2016, 06:25:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 27, 2016, 04:43:53 AM
In German,  there's still no alternative to the Bergengrün translation of War and Peace. It's the only one to make an effort to preserve as much of the French dialogue as possibleinstead of translating it, too.

I was reading a free version on Kindle. It helpfully put in parentheticals with translation for the French. :blush:

Well, I still use the translated footnotes, but I find it more immersive with the French intact.

It's the difference between this:

"Eh bien, mon prince, Genes and Lucques ne sont plus que des apanages, des estates, de la famille Buonaparte. Non, je vous préviens, que si vous ne me dites pas que nous avons la guerre, si vous vous permettez encore de pallier toutes les infamies, toutes les atrocités de cet Antichrist (ma parole, j'y crois)-- je ne vous connais plus, vous n'etes plus mon ami, vous n'etes plus my faithful slave, comme vous dites. Well, good evening, good evening. Je vois que je vouis fais peur, sit down and tell me about it."

And this:

"Well, Prince, so Genoa and Lucca are now just family estates of the Buonapartes. But I warn you, if you don't tell me that this means war, if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist--I really believe he is Antichrist--I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend, no longer my 'faithful slave,' as you call yourself! But how do you do? I see I have frightened you--sit down and tell me all the news."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on November 28, 2016, 04:02:43 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 19, 2016, 10:16:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 19, 2016, 10:05:15 AM
In Amazon's recommendations to me, there's DIY tools which is a picture of a lockpick set. :hmm:

Actually, that is a really, really helpful skill to learn. :unsure: You know, like a hobby.

Fun as well!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 28, 2016, 07:46:28 AM
Is this any good do you think? Samurai President of the Philippines; Spiritual Interview with the Guardian Spirit of Rodrigo Duterte (Spiritual Interview Series)

QuoteSamurai President of the Philippines contains the spiritual interview with the subconscious of President Duterte, and reveals that the president is the reincarnation of the internationally renowned, proud Japanese military officer. The secret to his hard-lined leadership of executing over one thousand drug offenders lies in his past life as a Japanese general who fought a deadly battle. Here is the nature of his soul and the true mind of the "samurai president" who will be a key person in Asia from now on.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 28, 2016, 08:16:53 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 28, 2016, 03:47:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 27, 2016, 06:25:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 27, 2016, 04:43:53 AM
In German,  there's still no alternative to the Bergengrün translation of War and Peace. It's the only one to make an effort to preserve as much of the French dialogue as possibleinstead of translating it, too.

I was reading a free version on Kindle. It helpfully put in parentheticals with translation for the French. :blush:

Well, I still use the translated footnotes, but I find it more immersive with the French intact.

It's the difference between this:

"Eh bien, mon prince, Genes and Lucques ne sont plus que des apanages, des estates, de la famille Buonaparte. Non, je vous préviens, que si vous ne me dites pas que nous avons la guerre, si vous vous permettez encore de pallier toutes les infamies, toutes les atrocités de cet Antichrist (ma parole, j'y crois)-- je ne vous connais plus, vous n'etes plus mon ami, vous n'etes plus my faithful slave, comme vous dites. Well, good evening, good evening. Je vois que je vouis fais peur, sit down and tell me about it."

And this:

"Well, Prince, so Genoa and Lucca are now just family estates of the Buonapartes. But I warn you, if you don't tell me that this means war, if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist--I really believe he is Antichrist--I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend, no longer my 'faithful slave,' as you call yourself! But how do you do? I see I have frightened you--sit down and tell me all the news."

I don't find it immersive as I've no idea what it is say otherwise...

Where I dislike it though is in history books. There they generally won't translate and its like...cool. :mellow:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on November 28, 2016, 12:25:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 28, 2016, 08:16:53 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 28, 2016, 03:47:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 27, 2016, 06:25:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 27, 2016, 04:43:53 AM
In German,  there's still no alternative to the Bergengrün translation of War and Peace. It's the only one to make an effort to preserve as much of the French dialogue as possibleinstead of translating it, too.

I was reading a free version on Kindle. It helpfully put in parentheticals with translation for the French. :blush:

Well, I still use the translated footnotes, but I find it more immersive with the French intact.

It's the difference between this:

"Eh bien, mon prince, Genes and Lucques ne sont plus que des apanages, des estates, de la famille Buonaparte. Non, je vous préviens, que si vous ne me dites pas que nous avons la guerre, si vous vous permettez encore de pallier toutes les infamies, toutes les atrocités de cet Antichrist (ma parole, j'y crois)-- je ne vous connais plus, vous n'etes plus mon ami, vous n'etes plus my faithful slave, comme vous dites. Well, good evening, good evening. Je vois que je vouis fais peur, sit down and tell me about it."

And this:

"Well, Prince, so Genoa and Lucca are now just family estates of the Buonapartes. But I warn you, if you don't tell me that this means war, if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist--I really believe he is Antichrist--I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend, no longer my 'faithful slave,' as you call yourself! But how do you do? I see I have frightened you--sit down and tell me all the news."

I don't find it immersive as I've no idea what it is say otherwise...

Where I dislike it though is in history books. There they generally won't translate and its like...cool. :mellow:

You mean serious history books? Academia will assume some sort of working knowledge of German and French on the part of the reader.


And I agree with Syt, the untranslated part does make a difference.


Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 28, 2016, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 28, 2016, 08:16:53 AMI don't find it immersive as I've no idea what it is say otherwise...

It serves to illustrate their overall Francophile aristocratic customs - somewhat at odds with the revolution and Napoleon.

Imagine if elite circles in a country were using English as conversational language, influenced by and adoring the predominant culture of the time and then were to face that culture come under the sway of a man who stands against everything they believe in.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 28, 2016, 12:41:08 PM
Quote from: Maladict on November 28, 2016, 12:25:25 PM
You mean serious history books? Academia will assume some sort of working knowledge of German and French on the part of the reader.

I don't know how serious they are but yeah it makes points a bit opaque if it is an English text and then they suddenly expect me to read another language.

Quote from: Maladict on November 28, 2016, 12:25:25 PM
And I agree with Syt, the untranslated part does make a difference.

I can totally see that if you've at least rudimentary knowledge of the language in question (like I'd be fine with some untranslated Spanish) but otherwise, it doesn't do much for you. I don't mind it as much in novels though as usually the translator/adaptor has put the translation somewhere (either inline or in footnotes). Really mostly an issue for me in history books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 28, 2016, 12:42:39 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 28, 2016, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 28, 2016, 08:16:53 AMI don't find it immersive as I've no idea what it is say otherwise...

It serves to illustrate their overall Francophile aristocratic customs - somewhat at odds with the revolution and Napoleon.

Imagine if elite circles in a country were using English as conversational language, influenced by and adoring the predominant culture of the time and then were to face that culture come under the sway of a man who stands against everything they believe in.

I don't know that I need text I can't read to get that point though. Particularly not when there are actually many chapters that actually even explicitly say that point (like when Helene has the gathering where they now need to forfeit money every time that they speak in French). :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on November 28, 2016, 12:44:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 28, 2016, 12:41:08 PM
Quote from: Maladict on November 28, 2016, 12:25:25 PM
You mean serious history books? Academia will assume some sort of working knowledge of German and French on the part of the reader.

I don't know how serious they are but yeah it makes points a bit opaque if it is an English text and then they suddenly expect me to read another language.

Sure, I can seen how that would be annoying. I was only suggesting it might just be a convention, rather than trying to be cool.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 28, 2016, 12:48:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 28, 2016, 12:42:39 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 28, 2016, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 28, 2016, 08:16:53 AMI don't find it immersive as I've no idea what it is say otherwise...

It serves to illustrate their overall Francophile aristocratic customs - somewhat at odds with the revolution and Napoleon.

Imagine if elite circles in a country were using English as conversational language, influenced by and adoring the predominant culture of the time and then were to face that culture come under the sway of a man who stands against everything they believe in.

I don't know that I need text I can't read to get that point though. Particularly not when there are actually many chapters that actually even explicitly say that point (like when Helene has the gathering where they now need to forfeit money every time that they speak in French). :P

Fair enough. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 28, 2016, 12:53:07 PM
Quote from: Maladict on November 28, 2016, 12:44:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 28, 2016, 12:41:08 PM
Quote from: Maladict on November 28, 2016, 12:25:25 PM
You mean serious history books? Academia will assume some sort of working knowledge of German and French on the part of the reader.

I don't know how serious they are but yeah it makes points a bit opaque if it is an English text and then they suddenly expect me to read another language.

Sure, I can seen how that would be annoying. I was only suggesting it might just be a convention, rather than trying to be cool.

Oh certainly. I didn't think it was trying to be cool, just an annoying convention. :D :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on November 28, 2016, 04:03:57 PM
Ah, misread that. That's what you get for reading untranslated texts.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on November 28, 2016, 08:09:14 PM
Warning:

I have a book and I'm not afraid to use it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 28, 2016, 10:41:08 PM
When Ed's feeling exotic, he switches his keyboard to English (UK).  Colours!

And then he plays Wham! UK.  Because he's a big homo.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on November 28, 2016, 10:42:27 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 28, 2016, 10:41:08 PM
When Ed's feeling exotic, he switches his keyboard to English (UK).  Colours!

And then he plays Wham! UK.  Because he's a big homo.

:lol:

Culture Club, you fag.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 30, 2016, 09:12:45 AM
Quote from: Maladict on November 28, 2016, 04:03:57 PM
Ah, misread that. That's what you get for reading untranslated texts.

Okay, so I just encountered this in a recently written fiction book set in London in the 30s. The two french characters switched to French for an aside with no translation. Highly unnecessary though I was able to largely guess what had been said from the context. <_<
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 02, 2016, 10:53:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 28, 2016, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 28, 2016, 08:16:53 AMI don't find it immersive as I've no idea what it is say otherwise...

It serves to illustrate their overall Francophile aristocratic customs - somewhat at odds with the revolution and Napoleon.

Imagine if elite circles in a country were using English as conversational language, influenced by and adoring the predominant culture of the time and then were to face that culture come under the sway of a man who stands against everything they believe in.

We really need a Trump smile for posts like this.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 04, 2016, 12:50:59 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 02, 2016, 10:53:41 PM
We really need a Trump smile

Check two posts above yours.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 15, 2016, 07:12:54 AM
Sanderson has finished the first draft of Oathbringer, 3rd book in the Stormlight Archives! But that release date. :bleeding:

https://twitter.com/BrandSanderson/status/807118144322080768

QuoteThat's a wrap, folks. Oathbringer is done at 461,223 words. Still much work to do, but we have a first draft. November 2017 release date.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on December 15, 2016, 10:48:49 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 15, 2016, 07:12:54 AM
Sanderson has finished the first draft of Oathbringer, 3rd book in the Stormlight Archives! But that release date. :bleeding:

What about it? I bet you think once shooting on a film is done it is ready to release as well :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 15, 2016, 11:22:25 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 15, 2016, 07:12:54 AM
461,223 words

:bleeding: indeed
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on December 15, 2016, 11:32:38 AM
Still a better release date than The Winds of Winter.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on December 15, 2016, 11:36:45 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on December 15, 2016, 11:32:38 AM
Still a better release date than The Winds of Winter.

SOMEDAY!!11

Hey Sanderson's entire career has taken place after Storm of Swords was published. And he has done it all while also teaching at BYU. Huh.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 15, 2016, 11:45:57 AM
It doesn't take long to put words together if you don't care what they say.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on December 15, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 15, 2016, 11:36:45 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on December 15, 2016, 11:32:38 AM
Still a better release date than The Winds of Winter.

SOMEDAY!!11

Hey Sanderson's entire career has taken place after Storm of Swords was published. And he has done it all while also teaching at BYU. Huh.

And he goes on tour all the time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 15, 2016, 09:10:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 15, 2016, 10:48:49 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 15, 2016, 07:12:54 AM
Sanderson has finished the first draft of Oathbringer, 3rd book in the Stormlight Archives! But that release date. :bleeding:

What about it? I bet you think once shooting on a film is done it is ready to release as well :lol:

I'm not saying it isn't warrented, just that it causes me pain. The Stormlight Archives are by far the best thing he's written.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on December 16, 2016, 10:07:19 PM
Off to a book signing by Anne Rice! :w00t:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 16, 2016, 10:19:37 PM
Bringing your dogeared, yellow-highlighter copy of Exit to Eden with you?  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on December 16, 2016, 10:22:51 PM
I'm too innocent for that. I'm just having her sign her brand new book. I think this makes her 27th book that I'll have read. :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 01, 2017, 11:37:07 PM
Time to tackle Powell's Chickamauga tome.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 01, 2017, 11:59:42 PM
spoiler:Union loses that battle
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 02, 2017, 01:50:05 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 01, 2017, 11:59:42 PM
spoiler:Union loses that battle

YOU'VE SPOILED IT.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 02, 2017, 10:04:41 AM
The Idiot by some Russian dude.

I read this back when I was 16 in 1983. I remember I was in Grade 11, and my history teacher, seeing it on my desk, remarked sarcastically: 'Your autobiography?"

I found it in my parents' bookshelf and decided to re-read it over the hols. Although it's always been the least powerful of Dostoevsky's big four, I was quite surprised with how quickly I swallowed it up. A great read. Like many of his books, the characters and plot are either unfinished or inconsistent, as it was being published as he was writing it, but it still packs a message. And ode to old Russia and yet a criticism of the ruling class.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 02, 2017, 03:45:26 PM
Another year, yet another book to read.  :smarty:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 02, 2017, 03:52:32 PM
Guess it fits better here than in the Rogue One thread.

Finished the Tarkin audio book. Written by Luceno, like Catalyst (the Rogue One prequel), I thought it was much better than the newer book. I hear that Catalyst required major rewriting after the Rogue One changes, so that may have caused some of the "by the number" feel of Catalyst.

This book has Tarkin and Vader look into a series of seditious incidents and uncovering a conspiracy. It's still early years for the Empire - they're still mostly using the V-Wing instead of the TIE-Fighter, and some of the organizational structure still has to gel. Flashbacks show how Tarkin was raised, how he became so ruthless, and how he first met Palpatine.

The interactions between Vader, Tarkin, and Palpatine are pretty good, and Tarkin's analytical ways give him occasionally a bit of a Sherlock air (which would be fitting, considering that Cushing played the detective in movies).

The book was one of the first of the new canon, and it brings back a host of familiar names from the Expanded Universe, though mostly just name dropping them. Armand Isard (father of Ysanne Isard of the X-Wing books), Screed (the Imperial from the Droids cartoon and Star Wars Rebellion game), the planets of Jomark and Obroa-Skai from the Thrawn trilogy, Interdictor Cruisers, Victory Class Star Destroyers, CC-7700 frigates (also from Star Wars Rebellion), Carrack Cruisers, TaggeCo, and plenty more. :nerd:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Caliga on January 02, 2017, 05:13:32 PM
Finished 'The Forge of God' by Greg Bear yesterday.  Pretty good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 05, 2017, 01:00:45 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 01, 2017, 11:37:07 PM
Time to tackle Powell's Chickamauga tome.

Good, detailed book so far, but WOULD SOMEBODY ATTACK ALREADY. WHAT A COMEDY SHIT SHOW.
:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 10:19:27 AM
Reading the Ancillary Justice / Sword / Mercy trilogy. They are good, but not "win every major scifi award" good. I was slightly disappointed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:05:13 AM
Chick writers suck.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 11:06:07 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 05, 2017, 01:00:45 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 01, 2017, 11:37:07 PM
Time to tackle Powell's Chickamauga tome.

Good, detailed book so far, but WOULD SOMEBODY ATTACK ALREADY. WHAT A COMEDY SHIT SHOW.
:lol:

Rosecrans was a genius :angry:

At least until he had that mental breakdown. Maybe he was bipolar.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:07:35 AM
He was a good Ohio boy.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 11:34:22 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:05:13 AM
Chick writers suck.

You will be overjoyed to learn that one of the book's big ideas is that the narrator's language doesn't have gender differentiation so everybody in the book, and I mean everybody, is referred as "she/her"  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 11:47:36 AM
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 11:34:22 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:05:13 AM
Chick writers suck.

You will be overjoyed to learn that one of the book's big ideas is that the narrator's language doesn't have gender differentiation so everybody in the book, and I mean everybody, is referred as "she/her"  :lol:

OMG. Do the sad puppies know about this?

Actually I have no particular problem with that. Sure beats they/their.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 11:55:24 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 11:47:36 AM
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 11:34:22 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:05:13 AM
Chick writers suck.

You will be overjoyed to learn that one of the book's big ideas is that the narrator's language doesn't have gender differentiation so everybody in the book, and I mean everybody, is referred as "she/her"  :lol:

OMG. Do the sad puppies know about this?

Actually I have no particular problem with that. Sure beats they/their.

I was being flippant, it's actually a quite cool gimmick. Mostly because the gender of every single character is thus obscured and it totally fucks with how you mentally construct the story as you read.

But that's the trilogy's biggest idea and otherwise the narrative - while entertaining - isn't anything memorable. I have yet to finish the last book, though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 12:38:36 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 11:34:22 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:05:13 AM
Chick writers suck.

You will be overjoyed to learn that one of the book's big ideas is that the narrator's language doesn't have gender differentiation so everybody in the book, and I mean everybody, is referred as "she/her"  :lol:

Pronounx.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 09:12:30 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 11:34:22 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:05:13 AM
Chick writers suck.

You will be overjoyed to learn that one of the book's big ideas is that the narrator's language doesn't have gender differentiation so everybody in the book, and I mean everybody, is referred as "she/her"  :lol:

I tried the first book. Donated to a park bench.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 06, 2017, 08:07:01 AM
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 11:55:24 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 11:47:36 AM
Quote from: celedhring on January 05, 2017, 11:34:22 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:05:13 AM
Chick writers suck.

You will be overjoyed to learn that one of the book's big ideas is that the narrator's language doesn't have gender differentiation so everybody in the book, and I mean everybody, is referred as "she/her"  :lol:

OMG. Do the sad puppies know about this?

Actually I have no particular problem with that. Sure beats they/their.

I was being flippant, it's actually a quite cool gimmick. Mostly because the gender of every single character is thus obscured and it totally fucks with how you mentally construct the story as you read.

But that's the trilogy's biggest idea and otherwise the narrative - while entertaining - isn't anything memorable. I have yet to finish the last book, though.

Yeah, I read the first one. I enjoyed it fine but not enough to bother picking up the sequels.

Best sci-fi book I've read recently was Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 06, 2017, 04:44:41 PM
2016 review (b/c cant be bothered to report in real time)

Worlds of Arthur, Guy Halsell - despite title this is a relatively serious history of post-Roman Britain.  Gives a good idea of the types of sources and their relative strength.  Also has speculative reconstruction based on interesting reading of the timeline in Gildas.
Political Order and Decay, Francis Fukuyama: 2d volume of his "political order" series.  Interesting and cogently argued as always but much longer than needed to be.
Transformation of the World, Juergen Osterhammel.  Very long but very good single volume history of the "19th" century (he often goes back to 1750s and up ahead as far as WW2).  Would definitely recommend  over Bayly if you have to choose one. 
Misbehaving[/b] Richard Thaler, chatty history of behavioral economics, decent intro to this field.  But if time is limited do Kaheman's Fast and Slow instead.
Meursault Investigation, Kamel Daoud. Camus Stranger told from the other side.  Nice short little book.  Not essential but definitely worth it if you are a fan of the original.  Read in translation.
Gilead[/b] Marilynne Robinson.  Read to see if holds up to the hype.  It does.  Beautifully written.
Strategy of Conflict[/b] and Micromotives and Macrobehavior, both by Thomas Schelling.  Both read a few months before his recent death.  Classic works but dense reading.  For this audience I would suggest first Arms and Influence which is a more coherent presentation focused on strategy in the nuclear age.
Age of Confucian Rule [/I] Dieter Kuhn - Conventional general history of China during Song period, part of series of histories of imperial China.  Not the most exciting read but learned a lot about a region and period I knew very little about.
Terroir and Other Myths of Winemaking[/b] - Mark Mathews - provocative title for marketing purposes - in reality this is discussion of recent thinking in viticulture and vinicultural science on a few selected issues.
Rendez vous des civilizations[/b] Emnanuel Todd and Y Courbage - using Todd's scheme of civilizational development, speculates that the Islamic world in gradually converging with the West.  topical but not best introduction to Todd's work.
Rue des BOutiques Obscures Patrick Modiano - classic work by 2014 nobelist.
SPQR Mary Beard.  Idiosyncratic history of Rome up to Commodus.  IMO strongest in the early pre-Second Punic War period.
Seeing Jose Sarmago.  He's got style but the lack of punctuation gimmick and the heavy-handed political messaging wears thin.  Read in translation.
Blitzkrieg Legend Karl-Heinz Frieser: detailed account of 1940 campaign in France.  Probably not much news to lots of folks here but I learned some from it.
Les Carolingians Pierre Rouche.  Somewhat old school history but told from a kind of Crusder Kings 2 approach - i.e. he is very heavy on the complex family relationships and their impact on politics.  Book includes only a few crappy maps, but dozens of genealogical charts. 
Inheritance of Rome Chris Wickam.  Good general history of late antiques/early medieval Western Europe.
White Guard Bulgakov - found out later this was originally a play and it reads that way.  Worth it for die hard Bulgakov fans but not up there with M&M.  Read in translation.
1177 BC -EH Cline: Does not, as the marketing suggests, provide a definitive explanation of the Bronze Age collapse.  But does provide a very readable survey of the written and archaeological evidence of the period and is worth reading for that.
Before European Hegemony Janet Abu Lughod - History focusing on international trade and commerce c. 1250-1350 in the Wallerstein mode.  Very interesting stuff.
Evolution of the International Economic Order W Arthur Lewis.  Short (<100p) and readable account of world economic development since the Industrial Revolution, densely packed with ideas.  Though parts a little dated (1978) still a worthwhile read.
Oxford History of Ancient Egypt and Rise and Fall of ancient Egypt - Two different books covering roughly the same ground but in very different ways.  The Oxford History as expected is scholarly cautious and dry.  Rise and Fall is a lot more lively and speculative, sometime perhaps too much for its own good.  Together they make decent complements if you are prepared to invest that much time.



Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 06, 2017, 04:51:40 PM
Okay, moneybags.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 06, 2017, 04:57:33 PM
I've read books. Books good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 06, 2017, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2017, 04:51:40 PM
Okay, moneybags.

Et tu?
Anyways, kindle books are cheap.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 06, 2017, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 06, 2017, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2017, 04:51:40 PM
Okay, moneybags.

Et tu?
Anyways, kindle books are cheap.

I ain't got no money. Spent it all on books. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on January 06, 2017, 05:35:36 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 06, 2017, 04:44:41 PM
2016 review (b/c cant be bothered to report in real time)

Worlds of Arthur, Guy Halsell - despite title this is a relatively serious history of post-Roman Britain.  Gives a good idea of the types of sources and their relative strength.  Also has speculative reconstruction based on interesting reading of the timeline in Gildas.
Political Order and Decay, Francis Fukuyama: 2d volume of his "political order" series.  Interesting and cogently argued as always but much longer than needed to be.
Transformation of the World, Juergen Osterhammel.  Very long but very good single volume history of the "19th" century (he often goes back to 1750s and up ahead as far as WW2).  Would definitely recommend  over Bayly if you have to choose one. 
Misbehaving[/b] Richard Thaler, chatty history of behavioral economics, decent intro to this field.  But if time is limited do Kaheman's Fast and Slow instead.
Meursault Investigation, Kamel Daoud. Camus Stranger told from the other side.  Nice short little book.  Not essential but definitely worth it if you are a fan of the original.  Read in translation.
Gilead[/b] Marilynne Robinson.  Read to see if holds up to the hype.  It does.  Beautifully written.
Strategy of Conflict[/b] and Micromotives and Macrobehavior, both by Thomas Schelling.  Both read a few months before his recent death.  Classic works but dense reading.  For this audience I would suggest first Arms and Influence which is a more coherent presentation focused on strategy in the nuclear age.
Age of Confucian Rule [/I] Dieter Kuhn - Conventional general history of China during Song period, part of series of histories of imperial China.  Not the most exciting read but learned a lot about a region and period I knew very little about.
Terroir and Other Myths of Winemaking[/b] - Mark Mathews - provocative title for marketing purposes - in reality this is discussion of recent thinking in viticulture and vinicultural science on a few selected issues.
Rendez vous des civilizations[/b] Emnanuel Todd and Y Courbage - using Todd's scheme of civilizational development, speculates that the Islamic world in gradually converging with the West.  topical but not best introduction to Todd's work.
Rue des BOutiques Obscures Patrick Modiano - classic work by 2014 nobelist.
SPQR Mary Beard.  Idiosyncratic history of Rome up to Commodus.  IMO strongest in the early pre-Second Punic War period.
Seeing Jose Sarmago.  He's got style but the lack of punctuation gimmick and the heavy-handed political messaging wears thin.  Read in translation.
Blitzkrieg Legend Karl-Heinz Frieser: detailed account of 1940 campaign in France.  Probably not much news to lots of folks here but I learned some from it.
Les Carolingians Pierre Rouche.  Somewhat old school history but told from a kind of Crusder Kings 2 approach - i.e. he is very heavy on the complex family relationships and their impact on politics.  Book includes only a few crappy maps, but dozens of genealogical charts. 
Inheritance of Rome Chris Wickam.  Good general history of late antiques/early medieval Western Europe.
White Guard Bulgakov - found out later this was originally a play and it reads that way.  Worth it for die hard Bulgakov fans but not up there with M&M.  Read in translation.
1177 BC -EH Cline: Does not, as the marketing suggests, provide a definitive explanation of the Bronze Age collapse.  But does provide a very readable survey of the written and archaeological evidence of the period and is worth reading for that.
Before European Hegemony Janet Abu Lughod - History focusing on international trade and commerce c. 1250-1350 in the Wallerstein mode.  Very interesting stuff.
Evolution of the International Economic Order W Arthur Lewis.  Short (<100p) and readable account of world economic development since the Industrial Revolution, densely packed with ideas.  Though parts a little dated (1978) still a worthwhile read.
Oxford History of Ancient Egypt and Rise and Fall of ancient Egypt - Two different books covering roughly the same ground but in very different ways.  The Oxford History as expected is scholarly cautious and dry.  Rise and Fall is a lot more lively and speculative, sometime perhaps too much for its own good.  Together they make decent complements if you are prepared to invest that much time.

I liked Cline's book.  The lecture he gave at the Oriental Institute about the book is worth watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyry8mgXiTk
He also makes the point that it is more interesting to know what collapsed than how it collapsed.  He also makes fun of the marketing for the book  :)

Thanks for the recommendation for Inheritance of Rome  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 06, 2017, 05:40:35 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 06, 2017, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2017, 04:51:40 PM
Okay, moneybags.

Et tu?
Anyways, kindle books are cheap.

:yes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 06, 2017, 06:11:58 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2017, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 06, 2017, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2017, 04:51:40 PM
Okay, moneybags.

Et tu?
Anyways, kindle books are cheap.

I ain't got no money. Spent it all on books. :P

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on January 06, 2017, 06:53:07 PM
I'll pick up the Age of Confucian Rule once it's in soft-cover. I've found the series pretty decent so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 07, 2017, 03:45:21 AM
Joan, you've tempted on Frankie's volume 2.  Enjoyed volume 1.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 07, 2017, 04:06:48 AM
Minsky, don't you ever read anything light, about dragons or spies or hard boiled detectives?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 07, 2017, 04:30:38 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 06, 2017, 04:44:41 PM
2016 review (b/c cant be bothered to report in real time)

Worlds of Arthur, Guy Halsell - despite title this is a relatively serious history of post-Roman Britain.  Gives a good idea of the types of sources and their relative strength.  Also has speculative reconstruction based on interesting reading of the timeline in Gildas.
Political Order and Decay, Francis Fukuyama: 2d volume of his "political order" series.  Interesting and cogently argued as always but much longer than needed to be.
Transformation of the World, Juergen Osterhammel.  Very long but very good single volume history of the "19th" century (he often goes back to 1750s and up ahead as far as WW2).  Would definitely recommend  over Bayly if you have to choose one. 
Misbehaving[/b] Richard Thaler, chatty history of behavioral economics, decent intro to this field.  But if time is limited do Kaheman's Fast and Slow instead.
Meursault Investigation, Kamel Daoud. Camus Stranger told from the other side.  Nice short little book.  Not essential but definitely worth it if you are a fan of the original.  Read in translation.
Gilead[/b] Marilynne Robinson.  Read to see if holds up to the hype.  It does.  Beautifully written.
Strategy of Conflict[/b] and Micromotives and Macrobehavior, both by Thomas Schelling.  Both read a few months before his recent death.  Classic works but dense reading.  For this audience I would suggest first Arms and Influence which is a more coherent presentation focused on strategy in the nuclear age.
Age of Confucian Rule [/I] Dieter Kuhn - Conventional general history of China during Song period, part of series of histories of imperial China.  Not the most exciting read but learned a lot about a region and period I knew very little about.
Terroir and Other Myths of Winemaking[/b] - Mark Mathews - provocative title for marketing purposes - in reality this is discussion of recent thinking in viticulture and vinicultural science on a few selected issues.
Rendez vous des civilizations[/b] Emnanuel Todd and Y Courbage - using Todd's scheme of civilizational development, speculates that the Islamic world in gradually converging with the West.  topical but not best introduction to Todd's work.
Rue des BOutiques Obscures Patrick Modiano - classic work by 2014 nobelist.
SPQR Mary Beard.  Idiosyncratic history of Rome up to Commodus.  IMO strongest in the early pre-Second Punic War period.
Seeing Jose Sarmago.  He's got style but the lack of punctuation gimmick and the heavy-handed political messaging wears thin.  Read in translation.
Blitzkrieg Legend Karl-Heinz Frieser: detailed account of 1940 campaign in France.  Probably not much news to lots of folks here but I learned some from it.
Les Carolingians Pierre Rouche.  Somewhat old school history but told from a kind of Crusder Kings 2 approach - i.e. he is very heavy on the complex family relationships and their impact on politics.  Book includes only a few crappy maps, but dozens of genealogical charts. 
Inheritance of Rome Chris Wickam.  Good general history of late antiques/early medieval Western Europe.
White Guard Bulgakov - found out later this was originally a play and it reads that way.  Worth it for die hard Bulgakov fans but not up there with M&M.  Read in translation.
1177 BC -EH Cline: Does not, as the marketing suggests, provide a definitive explanation of the Bronze Age collapse.  But does provide a very readable survey of the written and archaeological evidence of the period and is worth reading for that.
Before European Hegemony Janet Abu Lughod - History focusing on international trade and commerce c. 1250-1350 in the Wallerstein mode.  Very interesting stuff.
Evolution of the International Economic Order W Arthur Lewis.  Short (<100p) and readable account of world economic development since the Industrial Revolution, densely packed with ideas.  Though parts a little dated (1978) still a worthwhile read.
Oxford History of Ancient Egypt and Rise and Fall of ancient Egypt - Two different books covering roughly the same ground but in very different ways.  The Oxford History as expected is scholarly cautious and dry.  Rise and Fall is a lot more lively and speculative, sometime perhaps too much for its own good.  Together they make decent complements if you are prepared to invest that much time.

Read Osterhammel's book on its original German release. It's quite the tome, but covers a wonderful range of topics. I have Evans' The Pursuit of Power (Europe 1815 - 1914) sitting on my shelf waiting to be read.

Picked up SPQR the other day at a bookshop on a whim; I'd been looking for a recent general purpose history of Rome.

Inheritance of Rome. Read this a few years ago. I recall it was very decent, but don't recall many specifics. :hmm: Maybe time for a re-read.

1177BC - started reading it, but somehow stopped about 1/3 in, dunno why really.

Rise And Fall of Ancient Egypt - enjoyed it a fair bit, but I knew little about Egyptian history, so this served as a very good introduction to me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: AnchorClanker on January 07, 2017, 05:02:06 AM
For what it is worth, Allan Massie's "Inspector Lannes" series is quite worthwhile - a regular dude cop who is trying to navigate occupied France as a PJ superintentant. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 08, 2017, 02:20:00 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 07, 2017, 04:06:48 AM
Minsky, don't you ever read anything light, about dragons or spies or hard boiled detectives?

I read something about a band of mercs fighting zombies in the desert, Juggernaut.  Summer reading.  Also some old Asterix comics I picked up in tag sale. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 08, 2017, 09:26:40 PM
You need more Gor.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 13, 2017, 01:41:29 PM
https://www.amazon.com/Mrs-Allen-Develop-Perfect-Relationship/dp/0967326400

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.awkwardfamilyphotos.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fcache%2F2017%2F01%2Fbook-3%2F2447898117.jpg&hash=d823d351f2b9f7a39a66b0b5b7b646a1c9f418d2)

:unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2017, 02:12:40 PM
I probably would've whacked off to that in 1982.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 13, 2017, 09:03:55 PM
Brain is wacking off to the dog right now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 13, 2017, 09:06:36 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2017, 02:12:40 PM
I probably would've whacked off to that in 1982.

Not busty enough
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 14, 2017, 02:47:22 AM
Hair is bad, smile is bad, eyes are stupid.  9 beers.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on January 14, 2017, 07:25:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 14, 2017, 02:47:22 AM
Hair is bad, smile is bad, eyes are stupid.  9 beers.

Now rate the chick.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Archy on January 16, 2017, 06:47:03 AM
 :lmfao:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 16, 2017, 10:02:31 PM
Obama:

After a busy campaign year, he also plans to catch up on a lot of reading.

"There's something particular about quieting yourself and having a sustained stretch of time that is different from music or television or even the greatest movies," he said."


Wise words indeed.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 19, 2017, 07:25:53 AM
I wonder which Languishite wrote this romance? :hmm:

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/fa/4b/32/fa4b32b2a549d57be5e2ea4409426e42.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 19, 2017, 07:31:43 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 19, 2017, 07:25:53 AM
I wonder which Languishite wrote this romance? :hmm:

Wasn't Ed.  He writes about the lump in the back of his pants.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 19, 2017, 09:28:26 AM
How terrible does your name have to be to go by the initials E.B.? Perhaps a dude named Evelyn?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on January 19, 2017, 11:26:51 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 19, 2017, 07:25:53 AM
I wonder which Languishite wrote this romance? :hmm:

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/fa/4b/32/fa4b32b2a549d57be5e2ea4409426e42.jpg)

Quick googling suggests that before the photoshop the original title was "Drag me Down" published in 1955.


https://www.amazon.com/Drag-Me-Down-B-Stuart/dp/B0085HTAL0

Haven't found what his initials stand for, though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on January 19, 2017, 12:56:19 PM
For Christmas, my sister got me that recently translated first volume of a new German biography of Hitler, Ascent: 1889-1939, and I tore through it.  A great read, even though some of the author's claims to novelty vis-a-vis Fest and other prior biographers were rather overstated.  At the end of this first volume, things seem to be going really great for this Hitler guy; I wonder how the second volume will turn out. :)

The Goebbels diary entries were some of the funniest and most revealing primary source materials used, so it inspired me to pick up a used copy of a (well-reviewed according to blurbs) Goebbels biography from 1993 by Ralf Georg Reuth.

During the relevant chapter in the bio, I tried reading some of Mein Kampf online, too. :bleeding: Adolf Hitler may have had many talents but writing was not among (nor was he a fantastic dancer, it turns out).  Ideological content aside, it's borderline unreadable.  As I'm sure many German readers will discover for the first time this year. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Capetan Mihali on January 19, 2017, 01:03:11 PM
Before the Christmas gift, I read a very nice art book with a lot of good quality plates: Degenerate Art: the Attack on Modern Art in Nazi Germany, 1937.

Does this portrait look uncannily like a contemporary beardless Russian to anyone else?

(https://s24.postimg.org/pwqg9mfmd/IMG_20161213_181521607_HDR.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 09, 2017, 08:33:04 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/feb/09/portrait-of-real-mr-darcy-unlikely-to-set-21st-century-hearts-aflutter

QuotePortrait of 'real' Mr Darcy unlikely to set 21st century hearts aflutter

Experts believe Jane Austen's ideal Darcy would bear little comparison to the one played by Colin Firth in BBC's 1995 series

A dispiriting portrait of the "real" Mr Darcy, showing Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice hero as a pale, slope-shouldered, weedy character, thin of mouth and chin with his hair powdered white, has been created by a panel of experts through studying contemporary fashions and social history.

Their conclusions have been embodied in a portrait by the illustrator Nick Hardcastle, unlikely to set many 21st century hearts aflutter.

When Mr Fitzwilliam Darcy first walks into literature, at an assembly rooms dance in Meryton, Jane Austen provides remarkably few clues about his appearance. He attracts more admiring glances than his friend Mr Bingley, who is described as "good looking and gentlemanlike". However, with a typically sardonic flourish, Austen writes: "Mr Darcy soon drew the attention of the room by his fine, tall person, handsome features, noble mien, and the report which was in general circulation within five minutes after his entrance, of his having ten thousand a year."

Casting directors have generally interpreted this as tall, dark and ruggedly handsome, personified by Colin Firth in the famous wet shirt 1995 television version. Indeed the screenwriter Andrew Davies recently revealed that Firth was forced to dye his naturally reddish brown hair a darker shade for the role.

The experts, including the academic John Sutherland and the historian and author Amanda Vickery, commissioned by the Drama Channel to come up with the Darcy Austen might have envisaged, conclude that a tanned complexion, broad shoulders and muscular chest would not have been seen as attractive by Austen's Georgians, signifying a hardworking outdoor labourer, not a gentleman of leisure. They do permit him strong muscular legs, toned by horse riding and fencing, as a desirable attribute.

The ideal for gentlemanly good looks in Austen's day, they believe, was a smooth youthful complexion, with a small pointy chin and small mouth, under hair worn long but tied back and powdered white, as seen in many aristocratic portraits.

Vickery says of their version of the character: "As Austen wrote Pride and Prejudice in the 1790s, our Mr Darcy portrayal reflects the male physique and common features at the time. Men sported powdered hair, had narrow jaws and muscular, defined legs were considered very attractive. A stark contrast to the chiselled, dark, brooding Colin Firth portrayal we associate the character with today."

Sutherland believes the enigma is part of Darcy's charm: "There are only scraps of physical description of Fitzwilliam Darcy to be found in Pride and Prejudice; he is our most mysterious and desirable leading man of all time. What's fantastic about Jane Austen's writing is that Mr Darcy is both of the era and timeless."

Various historical figures have been suggested as Austen's model for Darcy, including an Irish law student Tom Lefroy – later a judge and MP – with whom she is said to have had a brief youthful romantic attachment. Others believe he was based on the first Earl of Morley, John Parker, married to a friend of the author's. The truth may have been lost in the many letters her sister, Cassandra, burned after her death.

The research on the real Mr Darcy was commissioned by the Drama Channel to launch its Jane Austen season, which starts on Valentine's Day.

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/0098e5f72e3f492e9a06229cdc400477d3f7b131/0_74_1486_891/master/1486.jpg?w=1225&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=fbef352322aa5af00153d993267a7246)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 09, 2017, 08:42:49 AM
Reminds me of Jesus de Sade from the Preacher comics.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreachertvseries.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F03%2FScreen-Shot-2016-02-29-at-9.30.06-PM.png&hash=b3b1685a8dcad5d32aaf8e04a16819d223e7e6f9)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fart.cafimg.com%2Fimages%2FCategory_13835%2Fsubcat_74469%2Fpreacher%252013%2520jesus%2520de%2520sade.jpg&hash=a26a0f275fcfac3e73433db0aece41c11e30b7b0)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 13, 2017, 06:29:39 PM
I went to the bookstore only to find that Citizen Clem is not yet available in Canada.  :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2017, 08:37:52 PM
So I've been fucking around with the Kindle app--I never did any of that e-book bullshit before, because I prefer the old Soviet method of ink on paper--but I was cruising through the Free Downloads, and downloaded A Genius For War:  The German Army and General Staff, 1807-1945 by Trevor Dupuy.  Anybody read it before?

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on February 13, 2017, 08:51:32 PM
About time you joined us in 2017 old man.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2017, 10:10:28 PM
Fuck you.  Can't underline passages and write in the margins of an e-book.  Well, not in the way I want.  :P  FUCK TRACK CHANGES
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 13, 2017, 10:57:52 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2017, 10:10:28 PM
Fuck you.  Can't underline passages and write in the margins of an e-book.  Well, not in the way I want.  :P  FUCK TRACK CHANGES

You can highlight passages in yellow, pink, orange or light blue. You can also write notes. It's way better than the old way, because you'll be able to read your notes easily in times new roman, instead of struggling to make out what you scribbled in chicken scratch in the side margin.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2017, 11:05:20 PM
Fuck off.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 14, 2017, 03:14:12 AM
Well he is right.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2017, 04:46:20 AM
Leviathan Wakes. #1 of the Expanse books.

Weirdly I believe that the TV series is superior. I thought the writing in the book was particularly weak and the changes made to the plot when bringing it to the TV fixed a lot of the loose plotting, bland dialogue, and plot holes, while enhancing the world-building and overall story. Not often that happens when adapting something to the screen.

Of course, there's a lot of stuff in the book that couldn't make it to TV because of budget, that is nice to see fully fleshed out here (like the biological and habitat differences between the different human subraces).

Another point of note is that season 1 only covers half of the first book (with the caveat that they include things from the second, like the entire Earth subplot). Actually, there's more plot in the series than the equivalent part of the book. Usually, writers have to cut stuff when adapting a book, not the opposite. But as said, the extra material in the series is mostly for the better.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 14, 2017, 06:45:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 14, 2017, 03:14:12 AM
Well he is right.

The fuck did I say?  NOT IN THE WAY I WANT.

Fucking vaccines, man.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 14, 2017, 07:14:37 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 14, 2017, 06:45:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 14, 2017, 03:14:12 AM
Well he is right.

The fuck did I say?  NOT IN THE WAY I WANT.

Fucking vaccines, man.

If anyone is being aspie here, it is you, Mr. I have a special way that I like to highlight.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2017, 11:58:41 AM
Seedy is right. Reading books on your phone isn't natural.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 14, 2017, 12:06:45 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2017, 11:58:41 AM
Seedy is right. Reading books on your phone isn't natural.

Books aren't natural. :o
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on February 14, 2017, 12:16:43 PM
Reading is pretty unnatural...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2017, 12:28:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 14, 2017, 12:06:45 PM
Books aren't natural. :o

Then why do they grow on trees?  :sleep:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.writethenextbook.com%2Fimages%2FBook%2520Tree%2520%28520x520%29.jpg&hash=2a8deb841471f9ef47e74e928b114fcd0801ad3a)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 20, 2017, 02:55:42 PM
Been reading a set of fantasy novels called the age of unreason, where Newton made Alchemy work.  Somewhat weakly written, and has a big flaw in depicting Ben Franklin as the main character.  Novel version of Ben Franklin doesn't feel like the real Ben Franklin who had a strong, but extremely subtle personality.  Novel Franklin is a headstrong boy constantly getting in arguments.  Real Franklin avoided contradicting people if at all possible, instead learning at a young age how to manipulate people.  Other historical characters show up like Issac Newton (who is suitably weird), Blackbeard the Pirate, Louis IVX, Maria Teresia, Emperor Francis Stephen, Emperor Kark VI, Charles the 12th, Voltaire, Cotton Mather and a few others who I haven't noticed.

I've never read the Baroque cycle, but I can't help but think it might have a better treatment of the historical characters.   
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 20, 2017, 04:16:13 PM
Does Charles XII kick so much ass?

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on February 20, 2017, 05:55:21 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 20, 2017, 04:16:13 PM
Does Charles XII kick so much ass?



Probably impossible to imagine, even in fiction.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 20, 2017, 11:38:34 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2017, 11:58:41 AM
Seedy is right. Reading books on your phone isn't natural.

That's why they sell kindles.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 20, 2017, 11:48:52 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 20, 2017, 11:38:34 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2017, 11:58:41 AM
Seedy is right. Reading books on your phone isn't natural.

That's why they sell kindles.

Kindle is just a smartphone without a phone app.  Sucks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 21, 2017, 10:11:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 20, 2017, 04:16:13 PM
Does Charles XII kick so much ass?

Actually, yes.  Yes, he does.  He is a total badass in the novel.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 21, 2017, 12:15:34 PM
From a NYT review of Age of Anger: A History of the Present by Pankaj Mishra.  "Today's political struggles through the prism of the Rousseau-Voltaire debates."

QuoteRousseau, the graceless outsider, could see straight through Voltaire's cosmopolitan suavity--and he shredded him.

More to the point, he understood the underlying pathologies of the rising capitalist civilization that Voltaire championed.  The market society, Rousseau warned, would dangerously unmoor individuals.  He saw how humans aspired to surpass one another in wealth and status, which meant they were capable of great cruelty.  The modern world weakened religion and the family, the emotional buffers that created comfort.  Without these supports, individuals came to depend on the opinions of others for their sense of self-worth, which inflicted terrible cases of insecurity, envy, and self-hatred.  This, in Mishra's argument, remains the nub of the world's problems: "An existential resentment of other people's being, caused by an intense mix of envy and humiliation and powerlessness, ressentiment, as it lingers and deepens, poisons civil society and undermines political liberty, and is presently making for a global turn to authoritarianism and toxic forms of chauvinism."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 21, 2017, 01:35:50 PM
Rousseau :wub:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 21, 2017, 01:56:00 PM
Henri :frog:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on February 21, 2017, 01:57:08 PM
Rousseau  :yuk:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 21, 2017, 03:58:19 PM
I posted that because I had always assumed the need for affirmation was an intrinsic part of human nature.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 21, 2017, 05:19:01 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 21, 2017, 10:11:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 20, 2017, 04:16:13 PM
Does Charles XII kick so much ass?

Actually, yes.  Yes, he does.  He is a total badass in the novel.

:w00t:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 21, 2017, 11:45:17 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 21, 2017, 03:58:19 PM
I posted that because I had always assumed the need for affirmation was an intrinsic part of human nature.

Why?  I thought it was commonly understood that people should resist basing their identity and self worth on what others thought of them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 22, 2017, 12:40:17 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 20, 2017, 11:48:52 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 20, 2017, 11:38:34 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2017, 11:58:41 AM
Seedy is right. Reading books on your phone isn't natural.

That's why they sell kindles.

Kindle is just a smartphone without a phone app.  Sucks.

You're combining the worst of the kids and the oldsters.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 22, 2017, 04:23:30 AM
Neat.  :cool:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/feb/21/walt-whitmans-lost-novel-the-life-and-adventures-of-jack-engle-found

QuoteWalt Whitman's lost novel The Life and Adventures of Jack Engle found

Described by Whitman scholar as a 'a fun, rollicking, creative, twisty, bizarre little book', the discovery has been made available free online

Danuta Kean
Tuesday 21 February 2017 09.29 GMT Last modified on Tuesday 21 February 2017 22.00 GMT

A "rollicking" anti-lawyer revenge fantasy by Walt Whitman, which challenges previously held ideas about the American poet's transition from prose to poetry, has been found in the archives of a Victorian New York Sunday newspaper. Though published anonymously, the book matches a detailed synopsis in the poet's notebook for a project academics had thought abandoned.

Entitled The Life and Adventures of Jack Engle, the book has just been published free online by the Walt Whitman Quarterly Review. Announcing the discovery unearthed in Whitman materials held at the Library of Congress, Ed Folsom, editor of the journal, said the discovery would change everything previously known about the author's early writing career. "Now we see that the fiction and poetry were mingling in ways we never before knew," he said.

Zachary Turpin of the University of Houston discovered the novel in Manhattan-based newspaper the Sunday Dispatch. Set in New York, it was serialised in 1852 and written at the same time as the poet began work on his landmark epic poem Leaves of Grass, published three years later.

Described by Turpin as "a fun, rollicking, creative, twisty, bizarre little book", Jack Engle is a classic rags-to-riches orphan's story about a corrupt lawyer, Mr Covert, who tries to trick his ward Martha out of her inheritance. Jack, who works for Covert, sets out to save his fellow orphan and in the process discovers his fate is tied up with hers. In true Dickensian style, Whitman appears to settle old scores in the book: the writer's father was also swindled by a New York lawyer.

Turpin found the 36,000-word novel as he ploughed through the prolific author's "odds and ends" in the Integrated Catalog of Walt Whitman's Literary Manuscripts, a comprehensive list of the poet's surviving papers, jottings, manuscript drafts, scraps and notebooks. Among the scraps, a series of character names appeared: Covert, Jack Engle, Wigglesworth and Smytthe. Painstaking detective work led him to a tiny notice from 1852 in the New York Daily Times (now the New York Times) advertising the serialisation in the Sunday Dispatch of an autobiography, The Life and Adventures of Jack Engle.

"Something about it just seemed right," the academic said. "The name Jack Engle. The year. The newspaper (to which we know Whitman had contributed before)." The clincher came when he matched the character names from Whitman's notebook with those in the published story. "I couldn't believe that, for a few minutes, I was the only person on Earth who knew about this book."

The discovery is significant not only for its rarity. The extent of Whitman's prose fiction was previously unknown. The book reveals he grappled with a desire to find the right form in which to express his ideas. "The Whitman we see in Jack Engle is not yet the confident, committed poet we now take him to have always been," Turpin explained. "It is during this vital time that he's experimenting, trying on different genres and modes of writing, looking for one that's ample and expansive enough to express what [Ralph Waldo] Emerson would call 'the infinitude of the private man'."

Folsom agreed the novel revealed Whitman's struggle with form and that it gives a precise time for his move into poetry. In chapter 19, the plot comes to an abrupt end as Jack wanders through a graveyard and the plots of the buried merge into endless lost life stories. As he contemplates these lost plots, Jack feel the grass covering his own face. Folsom said: "I sense at this moment Whitman is discovering why conventional plots will no longer serve for the kind of writing he feels he has to accomplish, and this novel thus lets us experience the moment in the process of Whitman's development when he realises fiction simply will not serve the kind of creative work he will devote the rest of his life to."

A revival in Whitman's work may be due. Prized for his originality, compassion, idealism and democratic patriotism, the poet saw himself as a prophet for what the US might become. "The Whitman of the early 1850s is absolutely ablaze," said Turpin, who has form in finding unusual lost works by Whitman. Last year, he discovered a book-length guide to "manly health" by the poet, which tackled everything from virility to foot care and exercise. Hinting that more may be mined from the archives, Turpin added: "This new novel may also indicate that he didn't give up prose. God knows – he could have, and probably did, write several more novels, if not many more than that. For all we know, they could be hiding in plain sight. Exciting, isn't it?"


Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 22, 2017, 06:15:31 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 22, 2017, 12:40:17 AM
You're combining the worst of the kids and the oldsters.

You want your Amazon stock to go up, you're going to have to count on somebody else to do it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 27, 2017, 04:13:22 AM
I'm looking for suggestions for short story collections I can read to my mom.  I'm thinking of starting with Just So Stories by Kipling.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on February 27, 2017, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 27, 2017, 04:13:22 AM
I'm looking for suggestions for short story collections I can read to my mom.  I'm thinking of starting with Just So Stories by Kipling.

Chekhov?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 27, 2017, 06:44:15 PM
Hate it when I preorder a book that is supposed to be out in a few weeks and it just gets pushed back. <_<
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 02, 2017, 08:14:15 AM
Quote from: Maladict on February 27, 2017, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 27, 2017, 04:13:22 AM
I'm looking for suggestions for short story collections I can read to my mom.  I'm thinking of starting with Just So Stories by Kipling.

Chekhov?

I read some short stories by Chekhov recently (The School Mistress collection). I enjoyed them but assuming Kipling is mama Yi's taste, wouldn't recommend them to her.

Yi - maybe Somerset Maugham, Road Dahl, Conan Doyle?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2017, 02:09:10 PM
Quote from: Gups on March 02, 2017, 08:14:15 AM
I read some short stories by Chekhov recently (The School Mistress collection). I enjoyed them but assuming Kipling is mama Yi's taste, wouldn't recommend them to her.

Yi - maybe Somerset Maugham, Road Dahl, Conan Doyle?

Someone else recommended Dahl.  Do you have a title?

Not sure if Kipling is her taste or not.  So far she has enjoyed Garrison Keiler, disliked Hemingway, liked Twain.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on March 02, 2017, 02:37:00 PM
How about some Agatha Christie? 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 02, 2017, 02:38:51 PM
Dahl's short stories often tend to be twisted with dark humor. Is you mom into that?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2017, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 02, 2017, 02:38:51 PM
Dahl's short stories often tend to be twisted with dark humor. Is you mom into that?

Not sure.  Not a load of experience.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 03, 2017, 12:16:13 AM
First chapter of The Jungle Book worked.  Choked me up a bit reading it.  :cry:

Library doesn't have any Roald Dahl of any kind.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 03, 2017, 12:34:29 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 03, 2017, 12:16:13 AM
First chapter of The Jungle Book worked.  Choked me up a bit reading it.  :cry:

Library doesn't have any Roald Dahl of any kind.

Not even the kid books? What kind of library is this?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 03, 2017, 12:59:27 AM
Ah, didn't check the kids section.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 03, 2017, 03:08:49 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2017, 02:09:10 PM
Quote from: Gups on March 02, 2017, 08:14:15 AM
I read some short stories by Chekhov recently (The School Mistress collection). I enjoyed them but assuming Kipling is mama Yi's taste, wouldn't recommend them to her.

Yi - maybe Somerset Maugham, Road Dahl, Conan Doyle?

Someone else recommended Dahl.  Do you have a title?

Not sure if Kipling is her taste or not.  So far she has enjoyed Garrison Keiler, disliked Hemingway, liked Twain.

There's a bunch of collections. Most famous are Tales of the Unexpected. It's decades since I read them.

If she liked Garrison Keilor, try Olive Kitteridge by Elizabeth Strout. Similar set of interlinked small town short stories and very good

How about PG Wodehouse?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 03, 2017, 03:23:35 AM
Quote from: Gups on March 03, 2017, 03:08:49 AM
There's a bunch of collections. Most famous are Tales of the Unexpected. It's decades since I read them.

If she liked Garrison Keilor, try Olive Kitteridge by Elizabeth Strout. Similar set of interlinked small town short stories and very good

How about PG Wodehouse?

You'll have to sell me a little on Wodehouse.  Cheeves, right? 

Will put Strout on the short list.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 03, 2017, 04:48:37 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 03, 2017, 03:23:35 AM
Quote from: Gups on March 03, 2017, 03:08:49 AM
There's a bunch of collections. Most famous are Tales of the Unexpected. It's decades since I read them.

If she liked Garrison Keilor, try Olive Kitteridge by Elizabeth Strout. Similar set of interlinked small town short stories and very good

How about PG Wodehouse?

You'll have to sell me a little on Wodehouse.  Cheeves, right? 

Will put Strout on the short list.

Wouldn't necessarily read him myself (though I have done) but his stories have a similar kind of gentle humour as Twain

Jeeves.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Pishtaco on March 03, 2017, 05:57:23 AM
G K Chesterton's Father Brown stories?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Neil on March 03, 2017, 09:55:07 PM
Finally got around to reading Andrew Gordon's Rules of the Game.  As an avid Jellicoeite, it really provided a good case for some criticisms not only of Jellicoe, but of the culture of the Royal Navy.  At the same time, it was realistic about Beatty and Evan-Thomas, both their bad points and their strengths.  It really established the background to the tactics of Jutland, with particular attention to the split around George Tryon's tactical ideas.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on March 11, 2017, 10:31:20 PM
Just about finished with American Gods.  I'm thoroughly enjoying it.  I nabbed the 10th anniversary edition with the expanded text.  Has anyone read the original and the expanded to compare?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 20, 2017, 03:08:24 PM
I just started to read The Lone Samurai: The Life of Miyamoto Musashi, by Wilson. I got to page 5 of the prologue, where the author claims that the battleship Musashi was named after Miyamoto Musashi. I hate it when this happens! Now I probably won't be able to bring myself to read the book since I can't trust the author. I'm not an expert on Miyamoto Musashi, I need a book I can trust. Goddammit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 20, 2017, 03:12:10 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 11, 2017, 10:31:20 PM
Just about finished with American Gods.  I'm thoroughly enjoying it.  I nabbed the 10th anniversary edition with the expanded text.  Has anyone read the original and the expanded to compare?

You mean it's not just a larger font?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: barkdreg on March 20, 2017, 03:45:27 PM
Quote from: Pishtaco on March 03, 2017, 05:57:23 AM
G K Chesterton's Father Brown stories?

Quite boring. Always the same: the atheist did it because without belief in God it is impossible to have morals.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on March 20, 2017, 03:49:17 PM
Quote from: barkdreg on March 20, 2017, 03:45:27 PM
Quote from: Pishtaco on March 03, 2017, 05:57:23 AM
G K Chesterton's Father Brown stories?

Quite boring. Always the same: the atheist did it because without belief in God it is impossible to have morals.

Hey there stranger. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 21, 2017, 08:34:57 AM
Quote from: barkdreg on March 20, 2017, 03:45:27 PM
Quote from: Pishtaco on March 03, 2017, 05:57:23 AM
G K Chesterton's Father Brown stories?

Quite boring. Always the same: the atheist did it because without belief in God it is impossible to have morals.

That's unfair. Sometimes it was the Jew
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 30, 2017, 02:01:44 AM
For $15 you can buy 15 Warhammer - Horus Heresy books, plus some other goodies.

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/horus-heresy-warhammer-book-bundle
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on March 30, 2017, 04:01:59 AM
Finishing Andrea's Wulf's The Invention of Nature, bio on Alexander von Humboldt. Highly recommended.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 30, 2017, 04:30:56 AM
Quote from: Maladict on March 30, 2017, 04:01:59 AM
Finishing Andrea's Wulf's The Invention of Nature, bio on Alexander von Humboldt. Highly recommended.

Sounds gay.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2017, 05:47:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 30, 2017, 02:01:44 AM
For $15 you can buy 15 Warhammer - Horus Heresy books, plus some other goodies.

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/horus-heresy-warhammer-book-bundle


Oooh, the second Trump Administration! :yeah:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 30, 2017, 06:07:07 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 30, 2017, 06:12:08 AM
Quote from: Maladict on March 30, 2017, 04:01:59 AM
Finishing Andrea's Wulf's The Invention of Nature, bio on Alexander von Humboldt. Highly recommended.

I thought the first half was brilliant but it faded towards the end when get not allowed to leave Prussia.

Amazing how little he's known now, given his achievements.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on March 30, 2017, 10:43:31 AM
Quote from: The Brain on March 30, 2017, 04:30:56 AM
Quote from: Maladict on March 30, 2017, 04:01:59 AM
Finishing Andrea's Wulf's The Invention of Nature, bio on Alexander von Humboldt. Highly recommended.

Sounds gay.

It does include that part, yes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on March 30, 2017, 10:44:55 AM
Quote from: Gups on March 30, 2017, 06:12:08 AM
Quote from: Maladict on March 30, 2017, 04:01:59 AM
Finishing Andrea's Wulf's The Invention of Nature, bio on Alexander von Humboldt. Highly recommended.

I thought the first half was brilliant but it faded towards the end

Kind of hard to avoid given that he did all the really cool stuff in his twenties.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: MadImmortalMan on March 30, 2017, 08:22:42 PM
I'm still reading The Deluge, and it's probably a record for me, since I usually read incredibly quickly. The thing here is that I keep stopping to look up stuff on wiki and other things. The wars between Sweden and Poland are just not discussed much in our education. One thing struck me, and that's how much of the language in The Witcher games I understand more now. An awful lot of the background stuff is really Polish (Lithuanian?) in nature. They even called the Germans "Black Ones".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 31, 2017, 12:49:05 AM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 30, 2017, 08:22:42 PM
The wars between Sweden and Poland are just not discussed much in our education.

Not sure if serious. :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: MadImmortalMan on April 06, 2017, 02:28:51 AM
Quote from: The Brain on March 31, 2017, 12:49:05 AM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 30, 2017, 08:22:42 PM
The wars between Sweden and Poland are just not discussed much in our education.

Not sure if serious. :unsure:

I had to search them out myself. School =/ Education.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 06, 2017, 06:13:32 AM
Quote from: The Brain on March 31, 2017, 12:49:05 AM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 30, 2017, 08:22:42 PM
The wars between Sweden and Poland are just not discussed much in our education.

Not sure if serious. :unsure:

Typical history major- "Who is Gustavus Adolphus?"  :huh:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 06, 2017, 11:46:55 AM
:(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 06, 2017, 01:04:04 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 06, 2017, 06:13:32 AM
"Who is Gustavus Adolphus?"

I'll take "Roman Caesars" for $400, Alex.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 06, 2017, 02:51:09 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 06, 2017, 06:13:32 AM
Typical history major- "Who is Gustavus Adolphus?"  :huh:

I prefer leaders that don't get killed in major battles.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on April 24, 2017, 04:02:46 PM
I finished Last Train to Paradise by Les Standiford, about Henry Flagler and the over the ocean railroad.  Flagler was John D. Rockefeller's right hand man.  He came to Florida and, as a second career, built the rail and hotels down the east coast.  He continued the rail all the way down to Key West, believing that the newly opened Panama Canal would lead to a boom in trade between the United States, Latin America and the Caribbean.  (At the time Key West was the only deep water port on the east coast of Florida, as well as the largest city in the state.)  This was an amazing, and costly, engineering feat, especially at the early years of the twentieth century.

The trade boom never materialized and the tracks were damaged in the hurricane of 1935.  While they could have been repaired, the Florida East Coast railroad had been losing money for so long on the line that they sold the right of way to the federal government who built the current highway on the same area.

Flagler was one of the most influential figures in the development of Florida.  Some of his hotels still stand (The Breakers in Palm Beach, for one) and the Florida East Coast railroad still runs.  The book tries to portray Flagler's over the ocean railroad as one last mad attempt at immortality for Flagler and quotes Shelly's Ozyamdidas.  Ulysses, both the Tennyson and the Dante version (from the Inferno) might have been better, an old man trying to beat his fate.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on April 24, 2017, 07:29:43 PM
Alas, Babylon. Just in time for the Trumpenreich.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 27, 2017, 09:46:52 AM
Collected Bloom County comics by year on Humble Bundle for those inclined to read these:

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/bloom-county-comics-bundle

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 07, 2017, 10:47:51 PM
With a pun in the title like that, this book is clearly aimed at Languish.  :lmfao:

https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/2017/05/05/kfc-publishes-romance-novel-for-mothers-day-starring-col-sanders-with-ripped-muscles.html

(https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/entertainment/2017/05/05/kfc-publishes-romance-novel-for-mothers-day-starring-col-sanders-with-ripped-muscles/tenderwingsofdesirejpg.jpg.size.custom.crop.1086x611.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on May 07, 2017, 11:18:51 PM
I guess that is Ed with his home in Normandy in the background.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 08, 2017, 09:36:09 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 07, 2017, 11:18:51 PM
I guess that is Ed with his home in Normandy in the background.

:lol:

Damn, I must lift with those arms.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 15, 2017, 12:12:56 AM
Finished Good Omens by Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman. Really loved the book, up until the ending which was ... meh?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 15, 2017, 01:20:35 AM
If they are "wings" of desire, why is she holding a drumstick?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 15, 2017, 03:19:35 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 07, 2017, 10:47:51 PM
With a pun in the title like that, this book is clearly aimed at Languish.  :lmfao:

https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/2017/05/05/kfc-publishes-romance-novel-for-mothers-day-starring-col-sanders-with-ripped-muscles.html

KFC sponsored a few B movies way back when in exchange for Col Sanders cameos: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0761571/

E.g. "Hell's Bloody Devils"

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dvddrive-in.com%2Fimages%2Fe-h%2Fhellsbloodydevils.jpg&hash=5c772834bed40358d291e4c31750ba1c38e0367d)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-GHJMiW7su80%2FUH3QfF7ZNyI%2FAAAAAAAAN3o%2FdTiGH8JMnn8%2Fs1600%2FScreen%2Bshot%2B2012-10-16%2Bat%2B2.22.48%2BPM.png&hash=13f3ffae872ad57437fbfb74aef502c8d572b3b6)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 15, 2017, 12:44:07 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 15, 2017, 01:20:35 AM
If they are "wings" of desire, why is she holding a drumstick?  :hmm:

Nice catch.  :showoff:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 19, 2017, 09:31:32 AM
I finished The Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell.  There are some interesting insights in it; but, as a whole, the book is a better guide to understanding "Star Wars" than it is to understanding myth and legend.  The one thing that caught me by surprise in the book was how often he made reference to Freudian psychology.  Given the subject matter, if there was psychology at all I would have expected it to be Jungian.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on May 19, 2017, 09:34:11 AM
Interesting. How did he work Freud in there?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 19, 2017, 10:06:31 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 19, 2017, 09:31:32 AM
I finished The Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell.  There are some interesting insights in it; but, as a whole, the book is a better guide to understanding "Star Wars" than it is to understanding myth and legend.  The one thing that caught me by surprise in the book was how often he made reference to Freudian psychology.  Given the subject matter, if there was psychology at all I would have expected it to be Jungian.

Have yet to read it, but I read "The Writer's Journey" which is based mostly on it, but written explicitly with (Hollywood) story structure in mind, and pointing out examples from Wizard of Oz to Pulp Fiction and Romancing the Stone.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 19, 2017, 10:11:39 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 19, 2017, 09:34:11 AM
Interesting. How did he work Freud in there?

He frequently makes reference to dreams and their interpretation in order to illustrate elements of what he calls the monomyth.  Also he makes frequent references to the Oedipal Complex in that both monsters and anything to be reconciled with are interpreted as the father figure, while anything to be pursued is the mother figure.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 19, 2017, 12:47:51 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 19, 2017, 09:31:32 AM
I finished The Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell.  There are some interesting insights in it; but, as a whole, the book is a better guide to understanding "Star Wars" than it is to understanding myth and legend.  The one thing that caught me by surprise in the book was how often he made reference to Freudian psychology.  Given the subject matter, if there was psychology at all I would have expected it to be Jungian.

Freud lends himself easier to comparative archetype studies, and he was all the rage when Hero was written;  Campbell gets Jung more involved (ironically, as Jung gets more popular) as he gets older and explores larger societal themes, but he never really dispenses of one for the other.

Should check out his big lecture series from PBS back in the day if you can.  Neat stuff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on May 19, 2017, 01:36:00 PM
I have a working e-reader again; can I say locked and loaded?  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 19, 2017, 04:20:46 PM
Almost finished with Orwell's Homage to Catalonia.  Orwell's strengths are his clear prose, honesty, and earnestness.  He's also terribly naive (something does admit to), and has terrible political instincts.  His observations are pretty good, though I question his analysis sometimes.  For instance, he notes that steady trickle of deserters come from the Nationalist lines but almost no deserters coming from the Republican lines.  He claims this is because of the superiority of the message the propaganda broadcasters on the loud speakers.  I suspect it has more to do with the fact that the part of the lines Orwell was manned by volunteers and the nationalists were using conscripts in that location at the time has more to do with it.  I also suspect that the propaganda of creating a socialist world was less effective than the messages about plentiful food.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 20, 2017, 10:26:00 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 19, 2017, 12:47:51 PM
Freud lends himself easier to comparative archetype studies, and he was all the rage when Hero was written;  Campbell gets Jung more involved (ironically, as Jung gets more popular) as he gets older and explores larger societal themes, but he never really dispenses of one for the other.

Should check out his big lecture series from PBS back in the day if you can.  Neat stuff.

Looks like it's available on Netflix.  I'll get to that once I finish the James Burke documentaries.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 20, 2017, 10:29:07 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 19, 2017, 04:20:46 PM
Almost finished with Orwell's Homage to Catalonia.  Orwell's strengths are his clear prose, honesty, and earnestness.  He's also terribly naive (something does admit to), and has terrible political instincts.  His observations are pretty good, though I question his analysis sometimes.  For instance, he notes that steady trickle of deserters come from the Nationalist lines but almost no deserters coming from the Republican lines.  He claims this is because of the superiority of the message the propaganda broadcasters on the loud speakers.  I suspect it has more to do with the fact that the part of the lines Orwell was manned by volunteers and the nationalists were using conscripts in that location at the time has more to do with it.  I also suspect that the propaganda of creating a socialist world was less effective than the messages about plentiful food.

CB and I stayed at the same hotel the Orwells did.  The descriptions of the street fighting on The Ramblas seem unbelievable today; that's tourist trap central.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2017, 10:40:34 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 20, 2017, 10:26:00 AM
Looks like it's available on Netflix.  I'll get to that once I finish the James Burke documentaries.  Thanks.

Worse comes to worse, I think they're on audio as well if necessary.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on May 20, 2017, 11:17:55 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 20, 2017, 10:26:00 AM


Looks like it's available on Netflix.  I'll get to that once I finish the James Burke documentaries.  Thanks.

Connections?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 20, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
Quote from: mongers on May 20, 2017, 11:17:55 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 20, 2017, 10:26:00 AM


Looks like it's available on Netflix.  I'll get to that once I finish the James Burke documentaries.  Thanks.

Connections?

The Day the Universe Changed; I've seen the original Connections (it's one of my favorite documentary series) and the other two connections aren't yet available on US Netflix.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2017, 04:55:18 PM
Why was I not informed that BSG is now on Hulu?  :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on May 20, 2017, 04:58:53 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 20, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
Quote from: mongers on May 20, 2017, 11:17:55 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 20, 2017, 10:26:00 AM


Looks like it's available on Netflix.  I'll get to that once I finish the James Burke documentaries.  Thanks.

Connections?

The Day the Universe Changed; I've seen the original Connections (it's one of my favorite documentary series) and the other two connections aren't yet available on US Netflix.

Thanks I should check out if those are on UK netflix.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 23, 2017, 07:47:40 PM
Reading John Ringo's zombie novels. There is the usual Ringo ick factor of jailbait. At least not fucking jailbait...yet.

And the usual shots at LIBERULS, government and New Yorkers.

Glad the novel was only a buck. It's.....okay I guess.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 23, 2017, 08:24:11 PM
Zombies are gay. Gay boy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 23, 2017, 08:25:25 PM
East Front Russian cocksucker
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on May 30, 2017, 03:52:02 PM
Should I re-read Dune or keep my 20+ year old memories of it?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 30, 2017, 03:56:04 PM
Quote from: Maladict on May 30, 2017, 03:52:02 PM
Should I re-read Dune or keep my 20+ year old memories of it?

There is nothing wrong with coming back to a once-loved book.  Books do not age over time the way tv or movies do.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 30, 2017, 04:04:30 PM
They may even get better, like a fine whine.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on May 30, 2017, 04:07:37 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 30, 2017, 04:04:30 PM
They may even get better, like a fine whine.

I think you mean like a fine whinny.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 30, 2017, 04:11:01 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 30, 2017, 04:07:37 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 30, 2017, 04:04:30 PM
They may even get better, like a fine whine.

I think you mean like a fine whinny.

Neigh.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 30, 2017, 08:14:02 PM
One clop for yes, two clops for no.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 30, 2017, 08:55:29 PM
Quote from: Maladict on May 30, 2017, 03:52:02 PM
Should I re-read Dune or keep my 20+ year old memories of it?

I thought my most recent re-reading was a tiny bit of a letdown.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: dps on May 30, 2017, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 30, 2017, 08:55:29 PM
Quote from: Maladict on May 30, 2017, 03:52:02 PM
Should I re-read Dune or keep my 20+ year old memories of it?

I thought my most recent re-reading was a tiny bit of a letdown.

I wasn't that impressed the first time I read it.  I think I waited too long and had read too many imitators by that point.  Though that didn't seem to hurt my enjoyment of Lord of the Rings.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 30, 2017, 11:10:48 PM
Two new follow on titles from Valeriy Zamulin's:   Demolishing the Myth: The Tank Battle at Prokhorovka, Kursk, July 1943: An Operational Narrative   

The Forgotten Battle of the Kursk Salient: Army Detachment Kempf's Auxiliary Offensive

The Battle of Kursk: Controversial and Neglected Aspects
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 30, 2017, 11:11:42 PM
For Ed
:blurgh:


Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 30, 2017, 11:50:00 PM
If you need Ed he's gotta make a call, he'll be back at battalion.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on May 31, 2017, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 30, 2017, 11:50:00 PM
If you need Ed he's gotta make a call, he'll be back at battalion.

I'm shipping a yacht to Paris.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 31, 2017, 07:38:57 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 31, 2017, 07:32:59 PM
I'm shipping a yacht to Paris.

I thought it was a Jeep to Iowa.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 31, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 31, 2017, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 30, 2017, 11:50:00 PM
If you need Ed he's gotta make a call, he'll be back at battalion.

I'm shipping a yacht to Paris.

[email protected]
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 01, 2017, 08:40:49 AM
it might fit in a B-17
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on June 01, 2017, 07:23:57 PM
Here's a book that's unlikely to need an expanded modern edition:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51tP7nLMblL._SX258_BO1%2C204%2C203%2C200_.jpg&hash=353c30cbd01d0abab6431b4007f7fe1a839cccf1)

<_<
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 01, 2017, 07:30:48 PM
 :lol:

Think of better times, mongers.  :console:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on June 01, 2017, 07:45:00 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 01, 2017, 07:30:48 PM
:lol:

Think of better times, mongers.  :console:

:(

Yeah, I think the number of post 1970 exclusively British military aircraft is probably less than those illustrated on the cover.

edit:

Bae Hawk ?  Nimrod ? um must be others?? :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 01, 2017, 07:48:35 PM
Elegant weapons... for a more civilized age.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on June 01, 2017, 07:54:27 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 01, 2017, 07:48:35 PM
Elegant weapons... for a more civilized age.

Yes, I can make out a Javelin, Harrier, Canberra, Sea Vixen, Venom, Sea Fury(?), Dart(?) , Sea Hawk, Hunter, Victor, Vampire, Sea/Hornet, Lightning and Valiant.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 01, 2017, 07:57:01 PM
Vulcan FTW
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 01, 2017, 08:00:48 PM
At least the sad state of British military aircraft will take your mind off the sad state of the Royal Navy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on June 01, 2017, 08:03:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 01, 2017, 08:00:48 PM
At least the sad state of British military aircraft will take your mind off the sad state of the Royal Navy.

I'm expecting the Dutch to invade Kent any day now.  :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 01, 2017, 08:07:05 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 01, 2017, 08:03:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 01, 2017, 08:00:48 PM
At least the sad state of British military aircraft will take your mind off the sad state of the Royal Navy.

I'm expecting the Dutch to invade Kent any day now.  :bowler:

Now. They're hippies now. Too much pot smoking.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 01, 2017, 08:07:35 PM
Ugh, the Dutch.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on June 01, 2017, 08:34:55 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 01, 2017, 08:07:05 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 01, 2017, 08:03:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 01, 2017, 08:00:48 PM
At least the sad state of British military aircraft will take your mind off the sad state of the Royal Navy.

I'm expecting the Dutch to invade Kent any day now.  :bowler:

Now. They're hippies now. Too much pot smoking.

:D

Heh, but doesn't take away from the navies beeing closest in size since when, the 1660s? :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 01, 2017, 08:46:30 PM
Speaking of the Dutch, Mongers, did you ever read Picture This by Joseph Heller?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on June 01, 2017, 08:47:17 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 31, 2017, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 30, 2017, 11:50:00 PM
If you need Ed he's gotta make a call, he'll be back at battalion.

I'm shipping a yacht to Paris.

Somebody's been watching Kelly's Heroes again.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on June 01, 2017, 09:10:07 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 01, 2017, 08:46:30 PM
Speaking of the Dutch, Mongers, did you ever read Picture This by Joseph Heller?

Oh, that's a good one, though probably have to wait for the retirement reading list.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on June 02, 2017, 12:52:38 AM
Quote from: mongers on June 01, 2017, 07:45:00 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 01, 2017, 07:30:48 PM
:lol:

Think of better times, mongers.  :console:

:(

Yeah, I think the number of post 1970 exclusively British military aircraft is probably less than those illustrated on the cover.

edit:

Bae Hawk ?  Nimrod ? um must be others?? :unsure:

The Nimrod's from the Sixties; the Hawk didn't fly until the Seventies but design studies started in the Sixties.

I don't think you'll find a purely British military aircraft that started development post 1970.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 02, 2017, 02:05:18 AM
Read "Almost Human" by Lee Berger a couple of weeks. It's absolutely awesome. If you're at all interested in human evolution and/or exploring underground caves, pick it up.

https://shop.nationalgeographic.com/product/books/books/science/almost-human
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 02, 2017, 02:48:59 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2017, 08:07:35 PM
Ugh, the Dutch.

Don't underestimate Dutch master race:

(https://queerty-prodweb.s3.amazonaws.com/wp/docs/2013/10/average-man-670x652.png)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on June 02, 2017, 05:16:26 AM
 :yeah:

edit: even though I don't quite measure up at 180 cm  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 02, 2017, 05:38:18 AM
Who knew everyone was so hideous?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Zanza on June 02, 2017, 06:37:18 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 01, 2017, 08:00:48 PM
At least the sad state of British military aircraft will take your mind off the sad state of the Royal Navy.
Maybe it is time for Hochseeflotte Part II? :shifty:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 02, 2017, 08:22:09 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 01, 2017, 08:47:17 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 31, 2017, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 30, 2017, 11:50:00 PM
If you need Ed he's gotta make a call, he'll be back at battalion.

I'm shipping a yacht to Paris.

Somebody's been watching Kelly's Heroes again.

Guilty!  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 02, 2017, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 02, 2017, 05:38:18 AM
Who knew everyone was so hideous?

Remember what Seinfeld said: only 5% of people are attractive. The rest are UNDATEABLE!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 02, 2017, 09:52:13 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 02, 2017, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 02, 2017, 05:38:18 AM
Who knew everyone was so hideous?

Remember what Seinfeld said: only 5% of people are attractive. The rest are UNDATEABLE!

Why would I remember anything that Seinfeld said? :huh:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on June 02, 2017, 09:56:13 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 02, 2017, 09:52:13 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 02, 2017, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 02, 2017, 05:38:18 AM
Who knew everyone was so hideous?

Remember what Seinfeld said: only 5% of people are attractive. The rest are UNDATEABLE!

Why would I remember anything that Seinfeld said? :huh:

Because he's one of the most insightful person of the 20th century?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 02, 2017, 10:05:52 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 02, 2017, 09:56:13 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 02, 2017, 09:52:13 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 02, 2017, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 02, 2017, 05:38:18 AM
Who knew everyone was so hideous?

Remember what Seinfeld said: only 5% of people are attractive. The rest are UNDATEABLE!

Why would I remember anything that Seinfeld said? :huh:

Because he's one of the most insightful person of the 20th century?

:mellow:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on June 02, 2017, 10:10:30 AM
You should acquaint yourself with the work of the great Jerry Seinfeld. Your life will be better for it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 02, 2017, 10:39:55 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 02, 2017, 09:52:13 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 02, 2017, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 02, 2017, 05:38:18 AM
Who knew everyone was so hideous?

Remember what Seinfeld said: only 5% of people are attractive. The rest are UNDATEABLE!

Why would I remember anything that Seinfeld said? :huh:

Beats the hell out of Sex and the City.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 04, 2017, 08:33:34 PM
Reading a book on the Gran Sasso raid
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: AnchorClanker on June 11, 2017, 11:29:55 AM
Anna Édes by Dezső Kosztolányi -

I enjoy literature from the 20s and 30s, and this Hungarian novel picks up right at the fall of the Bela Kun regime... and it's the story of an urban, middle-class family and their new maid.

Fascinating read, actually.  Pick up a used copy, if you can.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 21, 2017, 10:37:02 AM
Just finished Ruoff's Imperial Japan at its Zenith: The Wartime Celebration of the Empire's 2,600th Anniversary. It's pretty good if you're interested in 20th century Japan and what the Empire was like.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 22, 2017, 07:39:01 PM
Got a bunch of books today:

Patricians and Emperors
Aetius
A book about Valentinan and Valens

I'm on a fall of the Western Empire kick.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 22, 2017, 08:49:10 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 22, 2017, 07:39:01 PM
I'm on a fall of the Western Empire kick.

Trying to tell us something?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 22, 2017, 08:51:08 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 22, 2017, 08:49:10 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 22, 2017, 07:39:01 PM
I'm on a fall of the Western Empire kick.

Trying to tell us something?

:lol: no.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on June 25, 2017, 11:41:29 AM
Is Glantz's 'Kharkov' 1942 worth an isolated read, or does it work best when read with some of his other works?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 25, 2017, 11:45:41 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 21, 2017, 10:37:02 AM
Just finished Ruoff's Imperial Japan at its Zenith: The Wartime Celebration of the Empire's 2,600th Anniversary. It's pretty good if you're interested in 20th century Japan and what the Empire was like.

Oh, I forgot to mention: in the book the author describes the Sun Goddess as "mythical". Unfortunately I don't think he mentions the Christian God, I was very interested in his position on that one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 25, 2017, 12:20:48 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 25, 2017, 11:41:29 AM
Is Glantz's 'Kharkov' 1942 worth an isolated read, or does it work best when read with some of his other works?

I'm afraid you really need to read his entire oeuvre to fully understand it.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 25, 2017, 04:50:00 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 25, 2017, 11:41:29 AM
Is Glantz's 'Kharkov' 1942 worth an isolated read, or does it work best when read with some of his other works?

Sure,but it it may not be an easy read. Depends on your level of knowledge starting off with. Glantz is a very 5W type of writer.

However I would recommend reading his book; Before Stalingrad: Barbarossa, Hitler's Invasion of Russia 1941, as a lead in.

The second battle of Kharkov was essentially a German "Backhand" strike leading into Fall Blau

Both are well worth it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on June 25, 2017, 05:28:21 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 25, 2017, 04:50:00 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 25, 2017, 11:41:29 AM
Is Glantz's 'Kharkov' 1942 worth an isolated read, or does it work best when read with some of his other works?

Sure,but it it may not be an easy read. Depends on your level of knowledge starting off with. Glantz is a very 5W type of writer.

However I would recommend reading his book; Before Stalingrad: Barbarossa, Hitler's Invasion of Russia 1941, as a lead in.

The second battle of Kharkov was essentially a German "Backhand" strike leading into Fall Blau

Both are well worth it.

Thanks for that11B, I knew you'd come through. :cheers:

Yes, I'll take your advice and get the Barbarossa one as an e-book to speed things up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 25, 2017, 05:39:52 PM
Asking Before which East Front books are good is like asking Donald which tyrants deserve praise.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 25, 2017, 07:13:40 PM
Bizarre
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 25, 2017, 07:35:23 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 25, 2017, 05:39:52 PM
Asking Before which East Front books are good is like asking Donald which tyrants deserve praise.

What an odd thing to say.  11B4V is very knowledgeable, has read extensively and has provided many book reviews in the past.


I wonder if Marti hacked Yi's account, such is the quality of the comparison. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 25, 2017, 07:44:28 PM
Yi's right;  11B doesn't know shit about the East Front.  What with living on the West Coast and all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 25, 2017, 07:55:20 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 25, 2017, 07:44:28 PM
Yi's right;  11B doesn't know shit about the East Front.  What with living on the West Coast and all.

Eat an otterpop.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 25, 2017, 08:05:37 PM
Pro tip for y'all: Joe Steele by Turtledove is garbage. Worst book for 3 bucks....EVAR

And shut up. I was bored at the remainder tables.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 25, 2017, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 25, 2017, 07:55:20 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 25, 2017, 07:44:28 PM
Yi's right;  11B doesn't know shit about the East Front.  What with living on the West Coast and all.

Eat an otterpop.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/0e/b0/df/0eb0dff70085af7f1ee1a545af2b6b97.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 25, 2017, 10:19:15 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 25, 2017, 08:05:37 PM
And shut up. I was bored at the remainder tables.

Not a fucking excuse.  Plenty of remainder titles not by Turtledove on those tables.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on June 25, 2017, 10:24:42 PM
I have dishonored my clan.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 25, 2017, 10:32:14 PM
Self-help books are funnier.  And better fiction than Turtledove.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 26, 2017, 02:26:46 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 25, 2017, 07:35:23 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 25, 2017, 05:39:52 PM
Asking Before which East Front books are good is like asking Donald which tyrants deserve praise.

What an odd thing to say.  11B4V is very knowledgeable, has read extensively and has provided many book reviews in the past.


I wonder if Marti hacked Yi's account, such is the quality of the comparison.

I don't think you got it. Yi is saying b4 likes all of them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 26, 2017, 02:32:43 AM
Reading Timothy Zahn's "Thrawn" about Thrawn's rise in the Imperial ranks. It's basically Sherlock in Space. The story is interesting enough, but damn, Zahn needs a better editor. Bit of hack writing that was common in the old EU universe, but the standards have improved a fair bit from what books of the new canon I've read so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 26, 2017, 04:28:32 AM
Has Thrawn been in any of the movies?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 26, 2017, 04:39:45 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 26, 2017, 04:28:32 AM
Has Thrawn been in any of the movies?

He's part of Star Wars Rebels, which is canon. There's rumors he might die in the final season or at the very least disappear.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 26, 2017, 10:38:10 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 26, 2017, 02:26:46 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 25, 2017, 07:35:23 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 25, 2017, 05:39:52 PM
Asking Before which East Front books are good is like asking Donald which tyrants deserve praise.

What an odd thing to say.  11B4V is very knowledgeable, has read extensively and has provided many book reviews in the past.


I wonder if Marti hacked Yi's account, such is the quality of the comparison.

I don't think you got it. Yi is saying b4 likes all of them.

We did, Yi be wrong.

To boot I gave Mongers the Glantz warning too.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 26, 2017, 05:14:02 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 26, 2017, 02:26:46 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 25, 2017, 07:35:23 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 25, 2017, 05:39:52 PM
Asking Before which East Front books are good is like asking Donald which tyrants deserve praise.

What an odd thing to say.  11B4V is very knowledgeable, has read extensively and has provided many book reviews in the past.


I wonder if Marti hacked Yi's account, such is the quality of the comparison.

I don't think you got it. Yi is saying b4 likes all of them.

No shit Sherlock.  That is exactly why it was such a dumb thing to say.  Just because B4 reads a lot about the topic doesn't mean he likes all things he reads equally or, as Yi awkwardly put it, as uncritically as Trump. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 30, 2017, 02:16:11 AM
Ordered hardcover versions of Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit and The Silmarillion. My paperbacks are still in decent order, but I would like some nicer copies.

My apartment building has a ledge at the entrance gate to the inner yard. People often leave their old books there for other inhabitants to pick up. I've left my old books there this morning; will see if they're still there tonight. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 30, 2017, 03:34:28 AM
I'm reading the Martian. Pretty damn good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on June 30, 2017, 05:29:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 30, 2017, 02:16:11 AM
Ordered hardcover versions of Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit and The Silmarillion. My paperbacks are still in decent order, but I would like some nicer copies.


:yes:
I recently upgraded some classics. It's the civilized thing to do.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 30, 2017, 06:58:00 AM
Quote from: Maladict on June 30, 2017, 05:29:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 30, 2017, 02:16:11 AM
Ordered hardcover versions of Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit and The Silmarillion. My paperbacks are still in decent order, but I would like some nicer copies.


:yes:
I recently upgraded some classics. It's the civilized thing to do.

Well the bougie thing to do. Buying additional copies of something you already have...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on June 30, 2017, 08:27:39 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2017, 06:58:00 AM
Quote from: Maladict on June 30, 2017, 05:29:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 30, 2017, 02:16:11 AM
Ordered hardcover versions of Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit and The Silmarillion. My paperbacks are still in decent order, but I would like some nicer copies.


:yes:
I recently upgraded some classics. It's the civilized thing to do.

Well the bougie thing to do. Buying additional copies of something you already have...

Replacing them with better versions, rather than getting additional copies of the same thing.
Not entirely unlike upgrading a computer or phone.

I suppose you could see that as a middle class thing to do, not sure what your point is though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on June 30, 2017, 08:45:42 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 30, 2017, 02:16:11 AM
Ordered hardcover versions of Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit and The Silmarillion. My paperbacks are still in decent order, but I would like some nicer copies.

My apartment building has a ledge at the entrance gate to the inner yard. People often leave their old books there for other inhabitants to pick up. I've left my old books there this morning; will see if they're still there tonight. :)

:cool:

What a civilised way of being.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 30, 2017, 12:03:39 PM
Well, the books were gone, which means either someone took them, or someone threw them away. I like to think the former is the case.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 30, 2017, 12:05:43 PM
Quote from: Maladict on June 30, 2017, 08:27:39 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2017, 06:58:00 AM
Quote from: Maladict on June 30, 2017, 05:29:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 30, 2017, 02:16:11 AM
Ordered hardcover versions of Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit and The Silmarillion. My paperbacks are still in decent order, but I would like some nicer copies.


:yes:
I recently upgraded some classics. It's the civilized thing to do.

Well the bougie thing to do. Buying additional copies of something you already have...

Replacing them with better versions, rather than getting additional copies of the same thing.
Not entirely unlike upgrading a computer or phone.

I suppose you could see that as a middle class thing to do, not sure what your point is though.


Pointing out that 'civilised' is a rather elitist description. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 30, 2017, 12:11:00 PM
Only if you are an unwashed barbarian!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 30, 2017, 12:39:59 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 30, 2017, 12:03:39 PM
Well, the books were gone, which means either someone took them, or someone threw them away. I like to think the former is the case.

LOL and at the half, it's Hobbes 7, Rousseau 0
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on June 30, 2017, 01:23:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2017, 12:05:43 PM
Quote from: Maladict on June 30, 2017, 08:27:39 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 30, 2017, 06:58:00 AM
Quote from: Maladict on June 30, 2017, 05:29:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 30, 2017, 02:16:11 AM
Ordered hardcover versions of Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit and The Silmarillion. My paperbacks are still in decent order, but I would like some nicer copies.


:yes:
I recently upgraded some classics. It's the civilized thing to do.

Well the bougie thing to do. Buying additional copies of something you already have...

Replacing them with better versions, rather than getting additional copies of the same thing.
Not entirely unlike upgrading a computer or phone.

I suppose you could see that as a middle class thing to do, not sure what your point is though.


Pointing out that 'civilised' is a rather elitist description. :P

No contest there :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 30, 2017, 10:15:02 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 30, 2017, 12:39:59 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 30, 2017, 12:03:39 PM
Well, the books were gone, which means either someone took them, or someone threw them away. I like to think the former is the case.

LOL and at the half, it's Hobbes 7, Rousseau 0

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Tamas on July 04, 2017, 08:33:27 AM
I have been barked into here by garbon (he is most annoying when he is right). Can anyone recommend me a good book on the Spanish Succession War? I am not looking for a detailed log, more like a good overview and narrative.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 04, 2017, 08:41:30 AM
No
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 04, 2017, 08:49:25 AM
MSNBC's Lockdown: San Quentin
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 04, 2017, 09:32:31 AM
Is this one of those 18th century wars?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 04, 2017, 09:48:01 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 04, 2017, 08:33:27 AM
I have been barked into here by garbon (he is most annoying when he is right). Can anyone recommend me a good book on the Spanish Succession War? I am not looking for a detailed log, more like a good overview and narrative.

https://www.google.at/search?q=books+on+war+of+spanish+succession&oq=books+war+of+spanish&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0.3279j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on July 04, 2017, 12:20:07 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 04, 2017, 09:48:01 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 04, 2017, 08:33:27 AM
I have been barked into here by garbon (he is most annoying when he is right). Can anyone recommend me a good book on the Spanish Succession War? I am not looking for a detailed log, more like a good overview and narrative.

https://www.google.at/search?q=books+on+war+of+spanish+succession&oq=books+war+of+spanish&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0.3279j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Falkner's book is not a great book. Then again there's not much in English on this conflict, and it might be the best of what's there.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on July 04, 2017, 02:43:19 PM
John A. Lynn's "The Wars of Louis XIV" isn't solely devoted to the War of Spanish Succession, but covers it in decent detail. Since the war is the climax of Louis' reign, reading the rest of the work should give you a solid background to the lead-up from a French perspective.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 04, 2017, 02:56:48 PM
This book by Charles Spencer is pretty entertaining for the Blenheim campaign and Marlborough/Prince Eugene of Savoy, very readable: 

https://www.amazon.com/Blenheim-Battle-Europe-Phoenix-Press/dp/0304367044
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Tamas on July 04, 2017, 03:43:40 PM
Thank you all :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on July 04, 2017, 03:53:34 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 04, 2017, 02:56:48 PM
This book by Charles Spencer is pretty entertaining for the Blenheim campaign and Marlborough/Prince Eugene of Savoy, very readable: 

https://www.amazon.com/Blenheim-Battle-Europe-Phoenix-Press/dp/0304367044

Seconded. Surprisingly good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on July 04, 2017, 04:45:37 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 04, 2017, 02:43:19 PM
John A. Lynn's "The Wars of Louis XIV" isn't solely devoted to the War of Spanish Succession, but covers it in decent detail. Since the war is the climax of Louis' reign, reading the rest of the work should give you a solid background to the lead-up from a French perspective.

I haven't read it but you aren't the first one I hear recommending that book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on July 04, 2017, 09:11:49 PM
Quote from: celedhring on July 04, 2017, 04:45:37 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 04, 2017, 02:43:19 PM
John A. Lynn's "The Wars of Louis XIV" isn't solely devoted to the War of Spanish Succession, but covers it in decent detail. Since the war is the climax of Louis' reign, reading the rest of the work should give you a solid background to the lead-up from a French perspective.

I haven't read it but you aren't the first one I hear recommending that book.

I've only read two books in the series that it's in (Modern Wars in Perspective)--the second book being "The Seven Years War in Europe"--but I've greatly enjoyed them both. I will probably be making my way through others in the series at a more rapid pace.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on July 04, 2017, 09:14:22 PM
Correction--upon browsing the rest of the books in the series, I've apparently read two others. Charles Esdaile's "The Wars of Napoleon" was really, really good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 04, 2017, 09:20:46 PM
I'm not a fan of Esdalle's Peninsular War. It reads like a pompous blowhard wrote it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on July 04, 2017, 09:31:52 PM
Do you recall any examples? I didn't pick that up from his broader work.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 04, 2017, 09:37:01 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 04, 2017, 09:31:52 PM
Do you recall any examples? I didn't pick that up from his broader work.

The British were bad. Very bad. He spent the first part of the book running down the British. I lost intrest after his frothy ranting.

Gates' The Spanish Ulcer is better.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: celedhring on July 05, 2017, 05:00:57 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 04, 2017, 09:37:01 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 04, 2017, 09:31:52 PM
Do you recall any examples? I didn't pick that up from his broader work.

The British were bad. Very bad. He spent the first part of the book running down the British. I lost intrest after his frothy ranting.

Looks like a book I have to read!  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2017, 09:35:26 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 04, 2017, 09:37:01 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 04, 2017, 09:31:52 PM
Do you recall any examples? I didn't pick that up from his broader work.

The British were bad. Very bad. He spent the first part of the book running down the British. I lost intrest after his frothy ranting.

Gates' The Spanish Ulcer is better.

Esdaile's Wars of Napoleon is pretty harsh to Napoleon, so maybe he's doing something right after all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on July 05, 2017, 07:42:23 PM
HE BETTER NOT TRASH DAVOUT.

I'll send him a nasty gram in pig Latin.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 07, 2017, 02:41:11 AM
Per-ordered Oathbringer, book 3 of the Stormlight Archives.

Saw that a novella Edgedancer, that's been expanded from an anthology peice is being released a month earlier, ordered that too.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 17, 2017, 04:17:48 PM
I read "The Dictator's Handbook: Why Bad Behavior is Almost Always Good Politics" by Bruce Bueno de Mesquita and Alastair Smith :shifty:.  The central tenant is that people in power must satisfy only the people needed to keep them in power; the fewer those people are, the worse the dictator is likely to be.  The book tends to carry its conclusions too far and runs into trouble when explaining the behavior of leaders in a democracy.  Still it is entertaining if nothing else.

One thing when reading that struck me was how many countries in Asia managed to achieve some level of prosperity before becoming democracies (South Korea, Taiwan, Japan) or haven't yet become democracies (China, Singapore.)  I thought that might explain some of Mono's views.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 17, 2017, 04:42:54 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 17, 2017, 04:17:48 PM
One thing when reading that struck me was how many countries in Asia managed to achieve some level of prosperity before becoming democracies (South Korea, Taiwan, Japan) or haven't yet become democracies (China, Singapore.)  I thought that might explain some of Mono's views.

Not only is that a very recent development, it was not without substantial external assistance.  And when you mean Japan, which Japan do you mean? 

And the only thing that explains Mono's views is that he is not only straight out of Central Casting, he aspires to stereotype.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 17, 2017, 04:43:48 PM
Probably South Japan.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 18, 2017, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 17, 2017, 04:42:54 PM
And the only thing that explains Mono's views is that he is not only straight out of Central Casting, he aspires to stereotype.

Nah, I think you need to factor in a handful of psychological disorders as well.  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on July 31, 2017, 06:57:29 PM
Started listening to the old BBC radio adaptation of 'Lord of the Rings'.  :bowler:

So I think I'll go on a bit of a Tolkien reading binge afterwards, first up 'The Silmarrillion'.

After that, LOTR, something I've not read in donkey's years, think I'll start it in the early Autumn or August and as an experiment read it in sync with the days in the book, so around September 22nd I'll be reading about their departure form the Shire.

Then just read a few pages every other day to get to the departure from Rivendale in early winter.   IIRC the book effectively finishes in Minas Tirith around Midsummer's day with the hobbits recovering from their journey into the dark, so I'll aim to finish in sync with that, mid way through next year?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 11, 2017, 06:19:55 PM
Got a couple of shipments today, including the Duffy books Instrument of War and By Force of Arms, about the Austrian army in the Seven Years War. After a recent trip to Vienna I am reading up on Austrian military history, with a focus on the 18th century, and the internet told me that Instrument was THE book on the Austrian army in the era. They both look really nice, but of course I haven't read them yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 12, 2017, 11:06:25 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 11, 2017, 06:19:55 PM
By Force of Arms, about the Austrian army in the Seven Years War

I would be really interested to hear your thoughts on it when you get around to finishing it. I have read Richard Bassett's For God and Kaiser, but it's more an overview of the entirety of Austria's army rather than covering that specific period.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Zanza on August 12, 2017, 11:42:42 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 07, 2017, 02:41:11 AM
Per-ordered Oathbringer, book 3 of the Stormlight Archives.
Damn, I got my hopes up that this is already out. Well, waiting until November isn't too bad.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 12, 2017, 01:09:46 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 12, 2017, 11:06:25 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 11, 2017, 06:19:55 PM
By Force of Arms, about the Austrian army in the Seven Years War

I would be really interested to hear your thoughts on it when you get around to finishing it. I have read Richard Bassett's For God and Kaiser, but it's more an overview of the entirety of Austria's army rather than covering that specific period.

Sure thing!

Have you read Instrument of War? I'm likely to read that one before By Force of Arms.

I'm reading For God and Kaiser right now, as a general introduction to things Austrian and military.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 12, 2017, 04:52:21 PM
Negative, but if it's worth a damn I'll throw it on the list.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 16, 2017, 01:42:55 PM
John Henry Newman :pope: - Apologia Pro Vita Sua

I had read a book about British political thought  in the 19th century  :bowler: last year.  One of the vignettes concerned Cardinal Newman; which seemed a strange person to put in a book on political thought.  After reading this I can see the author's point.  The Oxford movement began, in part, as a reaction to the Whig parliament; their restructuring of the Church of Ireland and the Tractarian's fear that the Whig's would appoint liberal (:o) bishops.  It was also a University Politics type political movement; conservatism had been the dominant philosophy at Oxford in the wake of the French Revolution, but by the 1830's liberalism was coming into favor.  In addition, even though the Catholic emancipation had happened 30 years prior, there was still a widespread feeling that the Catholics were up to something.  (This view is lampooned in George Elliot's "The Mill on the Floss," but treated with complete earnestness in Charlotte Brontë's books, notably "Villette.")  This book did a great deal to change, or at least start changing, those views.

I doubt the subject matter would be of interest to much of Languish, but the prose is simply gorgeous.  The Penguin edition of the book contains not only the complete work, but the attack on Newman and his writings by Charles Kingsley which led to the Apologia.  That reads much like a Languish argument.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on August 16, 2017, 02:54:04 PM
Rereading The Sun Also Rises.

I thought Gatsby's friends were bad, but holy shit. I forgot how much Bill, Mike, and rest really hate Jews in that earnest, Lost-Generation way.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 16, 2017, 08:49:46 PM
Went to Barnes and Nobles today to pick up some pool reading for my Montreal trip.  They only had one Raymond Chandler that I hadn't read, so I got that and grabbed two Scandiweenian detective novels.  NYT Book Review makes them seem like all the rage. One is "Gone" by Mo Hayder and the other is "The Bat" by Jo Nesbo
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Kleves on August 17, 2017, 07:56:45 AM
Mo Hayder is British.  :secret:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 17, 2017, 08:01:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 30, 2017, 02:16:11 AMMy apartment building has a ledge at the entrance gate to the inner yard. People often leave their old books there for other inhabitants to pick up.

Someone left Leonhard Cohen's Beautiful Losers there. Alas, it was in German translation instead of English. :(

When I put in my earbuds on my way to work, Spotify randomly played his "I'm Your Man" right afterwards. :o
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 17, 2017, 08:03:10 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 16, 2017, 08:49:46 PM
Went to Barnes and Nobles today to pick up some pool reading for my Montreal trip.  They only had one Raymond Chandler that I hadn't read, so I got that and grabbed two Scandiweenian detective novels.  NYT Book Review makes them seem like all the rage. One is "Gone" by Mo Hayder and the other is "The Bat" by Jo Nesbo.
Barnes and Nobles still exists!?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on August 17, 2017, 08:35:22 AM
Shockingly, printed books still exist!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 17, 2017, 09:37:58 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 17, 2017, 08:35:22 AM
Shockingly, printed books still exist!

I refer to them as Soviet-era analog technology.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on August 22, 2017, 10:07:30 PM
Reading

Butler's Rangers: Three Accounts of the American War of Independence
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2017, 10:06:45 PM
Quote from: Kleves on August 17, 2017, 07:56:45 AM
Mo Hayder is British.  :secret:

That explains why it was less shitty than the Nesbo book.  That one was pulpy trash.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on September 24, 2017, 08:16:39 PM
I can't believe I bought a Gettysburg book. Might as well buy a battle of the bulge and a Stalingrad one too to complete the overdone trifecta.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 24, 2017, 08:32:50 PM
I've only read one Stalingrad book that I can think of right now.  The Beevor one, which was excellent.  I got cold reading it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 25, 2017, 01:56:09 PM
A friend just messaged me that progress has finally caught up with my favorite second hand bookstore in SF and they are going to be closing. Goodbye, Aardvark Books! Without you I'd never have had to create a personal rule that I'm not allowed to buy more than 3-4 books at a given time. :weep:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 25, 2017, 01:57:47 PM
Second hand Gor novels. :x
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 25, 2017, 01:59:32 PM
I don't recall those. I do recall they had a great history section with a large section devoted to British history. I think I purchased most of my Margaret Atwood books there too.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 25, 2017, 08:55:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 24, 2017, 08:32:50 PM
I've only read one Stalingrad book that I can think of right now.  The Beevor one, which was excellent.  I got cold reading it.

What's it called?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 25, 2017, 09:07:32 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 25, 2017, 08:55:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 24, 2017, 08:32:50 PM
I've only read one Stalingrad book that I can think of right now.  The Beevor one, which was excellent.  I got cold reading it.

What's it called?

Stalingrad
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 25, 2017, 09:14:16 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 25, 2017, 09:07:32 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 25, 2017, 08:55:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 24, 2017, 08:32:50 PM
I've only read one Stalingrad book that I can think of right now.  The Beevor one, which was excellent.  I got cold reading it.

What's it called?

Stalingrad
I'm going to guess that that's the name of more than one book, so who's the author?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 25, 2017, 09:19:46 PM
I hope we get to hear a high-pitched shriek when you're posting as your keyboard melts.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on September 25, 2017, 09:24:22 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 25, 2017, 09:14:16 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 25, 2017, 09:07:32 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 25, 2017, 08:55:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 24, 2017, 08:32:50 PM
I've only read one Stalingrad book that I can think of right now.  The Beevor one, which was excellent.  I got cold reading it.

What's it called?

Stalingrad
I'm going to guess that that's the name of more than one book, so who's the author?

:huh:  This is a joke, right?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on September 25, 2017, 09:26:23 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 25, 2017, 09:07:32 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 25, 2017, 08:55:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 24, 2017, 08:32:50 PM
I've only read one Stalingrad book that I can think of right now.  The Beevor one, which was excellent.  I got cold reading it.

What's it called?

Stalingrad

What is it about?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 25, 2017, 09:26:32 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 25, 2017, 09:24:22 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 25, 2017, 09:14:16 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 25, 2017, 09:07:32 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 25, 2017, 08:55:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 24, 2017, 08:32:50 PM
I've only read one Stalingrad book that I can think of right now.  The Beevor one, which was excellent.  I got cold reading it.

What's it called?

Stalingrad
I'm going to guess that that's the name of more than one book, so who's the author?

:huh:  This is a joke, right?

Don't tell him.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 25, 2017, 09:27:23 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 25, 2017, 09:26:23 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 25, 2017, 09:07:32 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 25, 2017, 08:55:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 24, 2017, 08:32:50 PM
I've only read one Stalingrad book that I can think of right now.  The Beevor one, which was excellent.  I got cold reading it.

What's it called?

Stalingrad

What is it about?

Leningrad
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2017, 09:52:52 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 25, 2017, 10:02:57 PM
Jerks. <_<

I have books on battles that have the battle name as the title, though they usually also have a subtitle. Totally plausible that the book in question was named Stalingrad.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 25, 2017, 10:06:09 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 25, 2017, 10:02:57 PM
Jerks. <_<

I have books on battles that have the battle name as the title, though they usually also have a subtitle. Totally plausible that the book in question was named Stalingrad.

Do you know the name of the author yet?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2017, 10:14:46 PM
The gift that keeps on giving.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 25, 2017, 10:15:42 PM
Oh, shit!

I thought he just made a typo of his nickname for you. :face::face::face:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 25, 2017, 11:25:16 PM
Jesus Christ, he's hit a new low.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 26, 2017, 12:49:50 AM
Sweet. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on September 26, 2017, 05:35:21 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 26, 2017, 09:25:33 AM
Who's buried in Grant's Tomb?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 26, 2017, 10:56:52 AM
Crackers in the Glade: Life and Times in the Old Everglades

This is a series of reminisces by Rob Storter, a man who had lived in the Everglades from the beginning of the 20th century until his death in the 1980s.  He made a series of drawings about his life, which were featured at the Mennello Museum of American Folk Art in Orlando; this book includes the drawings and the stories behind them.  The Everglades, prior to the Second World War, were largely the wild west.  In fact Storter's father was a good friend of EB Watson, the bandit who killed Belle Star.  He fled to the Everglades because Oklahoma was becoming to civilized.

One thing I learned was that during the Theodore Roosevelt administration hunting birds for their plumage in the Everglades was outlawed.  Egret feathers went for $5 a piece, a fortune at the beginning of the 20th century.  So three bird commissioners were gunned down between 1900 and 1915.

I also learned that whooping cranes are good eatin'.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 26, 2017, 10:59:25 AM
Cough.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on September 27, 2017, 02:31:29 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 25, 2017, 01:56:09 PM
A friend just messaged me that progress has finally caught up with my favorite second hand bookstore in SF and they are going to be closing. Goodbye, Aardvark Books! Without you I'd never have had to create a personal rule that I'm not allowed to buy more than 3-4 books at a given time. :weep:

I guess I talked about this place a lot. Just had another friend email me about it. :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 27, 2017, 05:39:48 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 26, 2017, 09:25:33 AM
Who's buried in Grant's Tomb?

No one. :nerd:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 30, 2017, 10:37:52 PM
Currently reading The Goddess and the Bull: Çatalhöyük.

Very good book about the Neolithic Revolution in Anatolia.

Apparently the bull and goddess theory was quite oversold by the first archaeologist to find the site. Quite a flamboyant figure.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on October 01, 2017, 12:13:33 AM
Mother Goddess theories do tend to be bullshit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 03, 2017, 05:14:54 AM
Çatalhöyük Research Project has a ton of great videos by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/user/catalhoyukmedia/videos

You can also read the original data from the dig

http://www.catalhoyuk.com/research

QuoteProject Database

Here you can find our primary archaeological data in the form of unit sheets, diaries, lab data and associated excavation records.

Archive Reports

Here you can find links to our Archive Reports, produced each year to summarise the activities, finds and interpretations of each team and excavation area.

Here's an 80 minute presentation on their work from 2014
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bst5px48M4w
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 03, 2017, 08:08:31 PM
Nerd
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 03, 2017, 08:23:27 PM
He can't be a nerd, he's in the NFL.  :huh:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 05, 2017, 10:54:13 AM
The Boys in the Boat: Nine Americans and Their Epic Quest for Gold at the 1936 Berlin Olympics by Daniel James Brown

This is the basis for the PBS American Experience documentary "The Boys of '36."  It goes much more in depth than the documentary and focuses on Joe Rantz (the guy abandoned by his parents in the documentary.)  Brown manages to build some real excitement into the races and imparts a great deal of information about crew and rowing in general (and keeps it interesting).  I recommend seeing the documentary first; if you're want to know more this is a great follow-up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 06, 2017, 03:55:22 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 03, 2017, 08:08:31 PM
Nerd
Every languish poster is a nerd
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on October 06, 2017, 04:00:20 AM
No
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on October 06, 2017, 10:41:12 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 05, 2017, 10:54:13 AM
The Boys in the Boat: Nine Americans and Their Epic Quest for Gold at the 1936 Berlin Olympics by Daniel James Brown

This is the basis for the PBS American Experience documentary "The Boys of '36."  It goes much more in depth than the documentary and focuses on Joe Rantz (the guy abandoned by his parents in the documentary.)  Brown manages to build some real excitement into the races and imparts a great deal of information about crew and rowing in general (and keeps it interesting).  I recommend seeing the documentary first; if you're want to know more this is a great follow-up.

It was a slog for me, and I used to row for my university.
I didn't really care for the human interest part, and the against all odds angle never ceases to bore me.
Too bad, I had high hopes. Maybe I should try to find the documentary.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 06, 2017, 12:42:25 PM
Quote from: Maladict on October 06, 2017, 10:41:12 AM
It was a slog for me, and I used to row for my university.
I didn't really care for the human interest part, and the against all odds angle never ceases to bore me.
Too bad, I had high hopes. Maybe I should try to find the documentary.

The documentary is also a story of triumph and courage; (but it has the advantage that it's much shorter.)  If you didn't like the book, I don't think you'll like the documentary.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 06, 2017, 01:08:54 PM
Crew is too fucking early.  Needs to be in the early evening.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 06, 2017, 02:04:43 PM
Early morning is cooler though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 06, 2017, 02:57:09 PM
No waves.  I want to see those bows breaking surf, dammit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on October 08, 2017, 01:37:36 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on October 06, 2017, 12:42:25 PM

The documentary is also a story of triumph and courage; (but it has the advantage that it's much shorter.)  If you didn't like the book, I don't think you'll like the documentary.

I was annoyed I didn't like it, so maybe I should give it another go.

Unrelated, but on topic: the Columbus bio by Samuel Eliot Morison is an excellent read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 12, 2017, 02:54:52 PM
Anyone read the Chernow Hamilton book?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 12, 2017, 06:53:26 PM
Picked it up, started, good so far.

But what do you expect from a NYT #1 bestseller!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 12, 2017, 06:57:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 12, 2017, 06:53:26 PM
But what do you expect from a NYT #1 bestseller!

Some crap Oprah likes?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 17, 2017, 06:49:54 PM
Reading War Before Civilization. It's pretty awesome.

My Kindle just down loaded Edgedancer. A Stormlight novella. That's next on the list.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2017, 06:53:41 PM
You should be downloading evacuation procedures in the event of an emergency.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on October 17, 2017, 07:26:23 PM
Hello, you've reach the U.S. Air force evacuation line. Please wait for the next available representative.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on October 17, 2017, 07:27:51 PM
Tim, you over in Kimchi land?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 17, 2017, 08:00:57 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 17, 2017, 07:26:23 PM
Hello, you've reach the U.S. Air force evacuation line. Please wait for the next available representative.

[email protected]
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on October 17, 2017, 08:03:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 12, 2017, 02:54:52 PM
Anyone read the Chernow Hamilton book?

Yeah a long time ago, probably shortly after it was released.  Very good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on October 17, 2017, 08:06:10 PM
Pre-ordered The Storm Before the Storm: The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic by Mike Duncan, of History of Rome and Revolutions podcast fame.

I am 99.9% sure that this is the first book I have ever pre-ordered.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on October 17, 2017, 08:11:33 PM
Not my first pre-order, but I ordered that as well. Looking forward to it.  :)

Also looking forward to Alison Weir's Queens of the Conquest, which should be here soon.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 17, 2017, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 17, 2017, 07:26:23 PM
Hello, you've reach the U.S. Air force evacuation line. Please wait for the next available representative.

In Sejong, well short of the DMZ. Unfortunately 150m from the massive government complex there. It houses the departments of Strategic Affairs, Infrastructure, Finance, etc. So it's not the best place for me to be.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fontheworldmap.com%2Fsouth-korea%2Fadministrative-map-of-south-korea.jpg&hash=3140b171deba2db2c39ce026cd85ece5cb974458)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on October 18, 2017, 04:50:26 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 12, 2017, 02:54:52 PM
Anyone read the Chernow Hamilton book?

Finished it last week. Well-written and very solid research. First half is a bit hagiographic, he seems to have fallen hopelessly in lover with his subject. Becomes more balanced later. He gives a really good kicking to Adams and Jefferson. Hamilton's energy and incredible intellect does shine through.

Probably a couple of hundred pages too long. I could have done with less about his personal life personally.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 18, 2017, 09:03:09 AM
Quote from: sbr on October 17, 2017, 08:06:10 PM
Pre-ordered The Storm Before the Storm: The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic by Mike Duncan, of History of Rome and Revolutions podcast fame.

I am 99.9% sure that this is the first book I have ever pre-ordered.

Oh, nice. I loved his podcasts.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2017, 09:04:39 AM
Everybody should hear his French Revolution one. Everything you ever wanted to know about the Directory but were afraid to ask.

I pre-ordered the book as well. I usually buy something from his fund raisers every year and I am reasonably sure the book is the fund raiser this year.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 18, 2017, 06:35:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2017, 09:04:39 AM
Everybody should hear his French Revolution one. Everything you ever wanted to know about the Directory but were afraid to ask.

I pre-ordered the book as well. I usually buy something from his fund raisers every year and I am reasonably sure the book is the fund raiser this year.

His most recent podcasts on the rebellions of the 1800s in Europe are also very good.

I will also be getting his book.  I have been looking forward to it ever since he announced the start of the project.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 18, 2017, 07:36:49 PM
I'll be damned if I call Pusan "busan".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 18, 2017, 07:48:29 PM
People said the same thing about Peking.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 22, 2017, 10:38:04 AM
The Fate of Rome - an engaging read which explains the factors which brought an end to the Empire in the West.  One Imperial thumb up.

https://press.princeton.edu/titles/11079.html
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 24, 2017, 07:59:08 AM
Storm Before the Storm is now available and on my e-reader :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on October 24, 2017, 08:04:25 AM
Mine was available at the bookstore on Thursday but I didn't have tine to go get it until today, heading over after work.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on October 24, 2017, 10:19:32 AM
Mine's sitting in my mailbox.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 24, 2017, 06:27:24 PM
You know, having finished War Before Civilization, it implies that war with China is even more inevitible than I thought, especially under the current leadership.

Basically, the more heavily tribes traded with each other, the more likely they were to go to war with each other unless they voluntarily established arbitrary monolopies (i.e. one tribe produces pottery, one produces obsidian blades, etc.). The breaking of such monopolies almost inevitably lead to war.

Chinese dominance in manufacturing and Trump's determination to break that comes to mind.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on October 24, 2017, 06:49:57 PM
I'm not sure that pre-historical economic drivers of conflict are particularly relevant in the current situation.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 24, 2017, 06:55:02 PM
China will invade us because the surplus dudes need sex partners.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on October 24, 2017, 07:04:29 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 24, 2017, 06:49:57 PM
I'm not sure that pre-historical economic drivers of conflict are particularly relevant in the current situation.

Yes. Especially those past monolopies.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 25, 2017, 12:37:39 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 24, 2017, 06:27:24 PM
You know, having finished War Before Civilization, it implies that war with China is even more inevitible than I thought, especially under the current leadership.

Basically, the more heavily tribes traded with each other, the more likely they were to go to war with each other unless they voluntarily established arbitrary monolopies (i.e. one tribe produces pottery, one produces obsidian blades, etc.). The breaking of such monopolies almost inevitably lead to war.

Chinese dominance in manufacturing and Trump's determination to break that comes to mind.

Did the author quantify the uncertainty?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 25, 2017, 01:12:26 AM
Uncertainty at 99.3%
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 25, 2017, 12:47:38 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 24, 2017, 06:55:02 PM
China will invade us because the surplus dudes need sex partners.

That's why they are dumping resources into advanced robotics research.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 25, 2017, 01:17:32 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 25, 2017, 12:47:38 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 24, 2017, 06:55:02 PM
China will invade us because the surplus dudes need sex partners.

That's why they are dumping resources into advanced robotics research.

To provide sex partners or military hardware for the invasion - or both?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 25, 2017, 01:42:31 PM
optionality
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 25, 2017, 05:59:48 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 24, 2017, 06:27:24 PM
Basically, the more heavily tribes traded with each other, the more likely they were to go to war with each other unless they voluntarily established arbitrary monolopies (i.e. one tribe produces pottery, one produces obsidian blades, etc.). The breaking of such monopolies almost inevitably lead to war.
That's an absurd contention.  Societies in close enough contact to trade probably were also in close enough contact to have causes to go to war with one another, but it is silly to argue that it is the trade that causes the war.  Not even the arbitrary monolopies of melanesia thought that.

QuoteChinese dominance in manufacturing and Trump's determination to break that comes to mind.

Trump is not determined to "break" China's trade imbalance; he is determined to play the same grift he has relied on his whole life:  to make his winning opponents see total victory as too drawn-out and expensive to be worthwhile, so they throw him a bone and accept his conditional surrender.

China won't fall for it, but it will take Trump longer than he has left in office to realize that they won't fall for that.  War with China is as likely as peace in the Middle East, if Trump has anything to do with it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 29, 2017, 04:23:31 PM
Man, the Chernow book is not very kind to Jefferson and Madison.  Jefferson in particular comes off as a crackpot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on October 29, 2017, 07:13:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 29, 2017, 04:23:31 PM
Man, the Chernow book is not very kind to Jefferson and Madison.  Jefferson in particular comes off as a crackpot.

He gives Adams a good kicking too. But he really seems to hate Jefferson. Is that a common view? I'd always assumed he was regarded as one of the all time greats.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: sbr on October 29, 2017, 07:18:04 PM
I don't know how much of it is because of Chernow, but Jefferson is my least favorite foundling father and it isn't close.  Outside of writing the DoI he was a mostly a piece of shit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 29, 2017, 07:19:30 PM
Quote from: Gups on October 29, 2017, 07:13:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 29, 2017, 04:23:31 PM
Man, the Chernow book is not very kind to Jefferson and Madison.  Jefferson in particular comes off as a crackpot.

He gives Adams a good kicking too. But he really seems to hate Jefferson. Is that a common view? I'd always assumed he was regarded as one of the all time greats.
He's regarded as one of the greats, but I defy anyone to read about his 2 terms as president and not think he was just awful. He lucked into the Louisiana purchase and that's about it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 29, 2017, 07:22:31 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 29, 2017, 04:23:31 PM
Man, the Chernow book is not very kind to Jefferson and Madison.  Jefferson in particular comes off as a crackpot.

Jefferson had a lot of very impractical ideas about how the nation should and would develop.  Beside fucking his slave and selling off his own kids, of course.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 29, 2017, 07:40:09 PM
Quote from: Gups on October 29, 2017, 07:13:06 PM
He gives Adams a good kicking too. But he really seems to hate Jefferson. Is that a common view? I'd always assumed he was regarded as one of the all time greats.

Besides the slave owning and slave fucking I didn't realize there were any knocks against him.

Good luck when it's time to redo Rushmore.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on October 29, 2017, 08:08:04 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 25, 2017, 05:59:48 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 24, 2017, 06:27:24 PM
Basically, the more heavily tribes traded with each other, the more likely they were to go to war with each other unless they voluntarily established arbitrary monolopies (i.e. one tribe produces pottery, one produces obsidian blades, etc.). The breaking of such monopolies almost inevitably lead to war.
That's an absurd contention.  Societies in close enough contact to trade probably were also in close enough contact to have causes to go to war with one another, but it is silly to argue that it is the trade that causes the war.  Not even the arbitrary monolopies of melanesia thought that.



Good thing he didn't actually say "Trade causes war".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 29, 2017, 09:43:35 PM
Quote from: Gups on October 29, 2017, 07:13:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 29, 2017, 04:23:31 PM
Man, the Chernow book is not very kind to Jefferson and Madison.  Jefferson in particular comes off as a crackpot.

He gives Adams a good kicking too. But he really seems to hate Jefferson. Is that a common view? I'd always assumed he was regarded as one of the all time greats.

Jefferson was particularly fashionable in 19th and early 20th century.  It is a shame all his work seems to get collectively tossed out simply on his economic and political philosophy, though.  People forget what a scientist he was.

When we become an agrarian society again in the post-apocalyptic wasteland, and have to learn how to grow enough food to make it through a winter, he may be in vogue again.  Knowing this country, it'll be the writings of Weezy Jefferson that makes it to the 22nd century.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on October 30, 2017, 12:02:11 AM
Chernow is defiantly a federalist.  I haven't read his Hamilton Book, but I did read his Washington.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 30, 2017, 01:31:23 AM
The Embargo Act was a fiasco, he should have known better than to go against Gallatin's advice.  Other than that, his Presidency was far from a disaster.  As President, he proved more pragmatic than his reputation would suggest.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on October 31, 2017, 11:56:33 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 30, 2017, 01:31:23 AM
The Embargo Act was a fiasco, he should have known better than to go against Gallatin's advice.  Other than that, his Presidency was far from a disaster.  As President, he proved more pragmatic than his reputation would suggest.

Yeah it is amazing how all those high minded ideals get compromised when you yourself are the guy making the decisions.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on October 31, 2017, 12:42:16 PM
Finally digging into White Devil after a false start.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on November 02, 2017, 09:05:55 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 31, 2017, 12:42:16 PM
Finally digging into White Devil after a false start.

Good read not as in depth as War on the Run.

On to the next
Hodges Scout
Northern Armageddon: The Battle for the Plains of Abraham
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 02, 2017, 09:12:51 PM
How in the world can the Plains of Abraham be described as an Armageddon?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on November 02, 2017, 09:13:59 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 02, 2017, 09:12:51 PM
How in the world can the Plains of Abraham be described as an Armageddon?

Guess we'll find out
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on November 02, 2017, 09:20:28 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 02, 2017, 09:12:51 PM
How in the world can the Plains of Abraham be described as an Armageddon?

Abraham is Old Testament, and so is Armageddon.  Therefor, they are the same thing.  QED.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on November 04, 2017, 03:06:09 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 02, 2017, 09:05:55 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 31, 2017, 12:42:16 PM
Finally digging into White Devil after a false start.

Good read not as in depth as War on the Run.

On to the next
Hodges Scout
Northern Armageddon: The Battle for the Plains of Abraham

If you're going for F&I reading, I really enjoyed Crucible of War by Fred Anderson and The French and Indian War and the Conquest of New France by William R. Nester.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on November 05, 2017, 03:53:52 PM
Crucible  is on the list.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 11, 2017, 09:47:45 PM
Finally started on The Last Valley
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on December 12, 2017, 08:44:11 AM
Read one not dealing with warfare: The Seventh Function of Language by Laurent Binet (in translation).

A really bizarre mix of parody on semiotics, French politics, murder mystery and conspiracy, it is far more amusing than it had any right to be (how could anyone dislike a book in which writer and critic Philippe Sollers has his balls cut off after losing a debate to Umberto Eco, for rank in a secret society?).  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 12, 2017, 09:03:02 AM
They're friends of decency and taste?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on December 12, 2017, 10:33:07 AM
I am enjoying making my way through the Last Kingdom series.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on December 12, 2017, 10:34:29 AM
Quote from: Malthus on December 12, 2017, 08:44:11 AM
Read one not dealing with warfare: The Seventh Function of Language by Laurent Binet (in translation).

A really bizarre mix of parody on semiotics, French politics, murder mystery and conspiracy, it is far more amusing than it had any right to be (how could anyone dislike a book in which writer and critic Philippe Sollers has his balls cut off after losing a debate to Umberto Eco, for rank in a secret society?).  :D

It was fun, but I much prefer his HHhH.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on December 12, 2017, 10:56:54 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on December 12, 2017, 10:34:29 AM
Quote from: Malthus on December 12, 2017, 08:44:11 AM
Read one not dealing with warfare: The Seventh Function of Language by Laurent Binet (in translation).

A really bizarre mix of parody on semiotics, French politics, murder mystery and conspiracy, it is far more amusing than it had any right to be (how could anyone dislike a book in which writer and critic Philippe Sollers has his balls cut off after losing a debate to Umberto Eco, for rank in a secret society?).  :D

It was fun, but I much prefer his HHhH.

I agree, HHhH was the better book - I went back and re-read it after reading Seventh Function. Stood up very well to a re-read.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on December 12, 2017, 11:00:51 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 12, 2017, 10:33:07 AM
I am enjoying making my way through the Last Kingdom series.

One of my favorites.

The formula starts to show a bit (I mean, how can it not?) but its a good one.  :D

If you like well written historical fiction series, I'd also recommend the Long War series by Christian Cameron: https://www.amazon.ca/Killer-Men-Christian-Cameron/dp/0752883933

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on December 12, 2017, 12:09:10 PM
Thanks for the suggestion  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 12, 2017, 01:55:11 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 12, 2017, 08:44:11 AM
(how could anyone dislike a book in which writer and critic Philippe Sollers has his balls cut off after losing a debate to Umberto Eco, for rank in a secret society?).  :D

They have a modicum of empathy?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on December 12, 2017, 01:58:25 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 12, 2017, 01:55:11 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 12, 2017, 08:44:11 AM
(how could anyone dislike a book in which writer and critic Philippe Sollers has his balls cut off after losing a debate to Umberto Eco, for rank in a secret society?).  :D

They have a modicum of empathy?

It doesn't actually happen.  :secret:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on December 12, 2017, 01:58:48 PM
Spoilers!!!!!!  :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 18, 2017, 08:54:35 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 12, 2017, 01:09:46 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 12, 2017, 11:06:25 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 11, 2017, 06:19:55 PM
By Force of Arms, about the Austrian army in the Seven Years War

I would be really interested to hear your thoughts on it when you get around to finishing it. I have read Richard Bassett's For God and Kaiser, but it's more an overview of the entirety of Austria's army rather than covering that specific period.

Sure thing!

Have you read Instrument of War? I'm likely to read that one before By Force of Arms.

I'm reading For God and Kaiser right now, as a general introduction to things Austrian and military.

Now I've read Instrument of War and By Force of Arms.

To a person who is serious about the Austrian army in the SYW then I guess Instrument of War is a must, certainly if you don't read German. It has a fuckton of info. Since I'm not an expert at all I don't know how reliable it is, but I have no reason to doubt that a lot of it is koscher.

I found By Force of Arms pretty nice, it gave me a clear picture of the operations I thought. Mind you I am NOT an expert on the SYW (I read a biography of Frederick many years ago and that's about it), so I don't know how it compares to other serious works. Maps are plentiful and reasonably clear without being very inspiring (I didn't always find all places mentioned in the text on the maps, but that may of course have been operator error).

In both books the author sometimes comes across as somewhat old-fashioned (not always a bad thing in history considering the number of retarded young historians), but in fairness I guess he must be like 120 y/o or something.

I also got his book on Frederick's army (The Army of Frederick the Great, 2nd ed), but I haven't started on it yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 18, 2017, 09:32:42 AM
Quote
To a person who is serious about the Austrian army in the SYW

One of the strangest quirks about this place is that such a concept is considered possible.   :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 18, 2017, 09:33:57 AM
:D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 18, 2017, 11:42:00 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 11, 2017, 09:47:45 PM
Finally started on The Last Valley

I would consider this a thorough book on Dien Bien Phu. The author goes into detail on the events;

-France's conduct of the war up to DBP
-Establishment of the base aérienne-terrestre concept
-The false application of the victory at Nà Sản
-Good background into main French Personalities. (Theater level to Company level)
-Challenges a couple of Bernard B. Fall's assertions.
-Excellent detail on French units, resupply ops, French air power, etc
-Good detail on Giap's conduct of the battle. Overall very good layout of the Viet Minh conduct of the battle. Fall's book was written shortly after DBP, so he didn't have access to info that Windrow had. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 19, 2017, 09:41:25 PM
What next? Choices are;
A Bright Shining Lie

Street Without Joy

Failure in the Saddle: Nathan Bedford Forrest, Joe Wheeler, and the Confederate Cavalry in the Chickamauga Campaign

The Tanks of Tammuz
:lol: WTF get the fuck out of here. I bought a hard copy in good condition 20 years ago for 2.00.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0670693685/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 19, 2017, 09:43:27 PM
Bright Shining Lie is fantastic.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 19, 2017, 09:46:49 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 19, 2017, 09:41:25 PM
What next? Choices are;
A Bright Shining Lie

WTF man.  You should've read that shit already.  It's required reading on the 'Nam.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 19, 2017, 09:51:12 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 19, 2017, 09:46:49 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 19, 2017, 09:41:25 PM
What next? Choices are;
A Bright Shining Lie

WTF man.  You should've read that shit already.  It's required reading on the 'Nam.

:Embarrass: I've drilled very deep in other areas.

ABSL is an audio book also and I can listen to it on the commute. Two birds with one stone.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 19, 2017, 10:24:55 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 19, 2017, 09:51:12 PM
:Embarrass: I've drilled very deep in other areas.

FFS man, there's only so many ways Kursk is going to come out  :P 


Anyway, my Required Reading Vietnam War List--

Non-Fiction
A Bright Shining Lie, Neil Sheehan
Dereliction of Duty, H.R. McMaster
A Rumor of War, Philip Caputo
We Were Soldiers Once...and Young, Hal Moore
The Best and The Brightest, David Halberstam
In Retrospect, Robert McNamara
Chickenhawk, Robert Mason

Fiction
Fields of Fire, Jim Webb
Going After Cacciato and The Things They Carried, Tim O'Brien

I have a collection of short stories from the Vietnamese perspective around here somewhere, can't remember the name;  but I would like to read General Giap's book one day. HOW DID THEY DO IT

Anybody else with any recommendations?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 19, 2017, 10:52:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 19, 2017, 10:24:55 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 19, 2017, 09:51:12 PM
:Embarrass: I've drilled very deep in other areas.

FFS man, there's only so many ways Kursk is going to come out  :P 


Anyway, my Required Reading Vietnam War List--

Non-Fiction
A Bright Shining Lie, Neil Sheehan
Dereliction of Duty, H.R. McMaster
A Rumor of War, Philip Caputo
We Were Soldiers Once...and Young, Hal Moore
The Best and The Brightest, David Halberstam
In Retrospect, Robert McNamara
Chickenhawk, Robert Mason

Fiction
Fields of Fire, Jim Webb
Going After Cacciato and The Things They Carried, Tim O'Brien

I have a collection of short stories from the Vietnamese perspective around here somewhere, can't remember the name;  but I would like to read General Giap's book one day. HOW DID THEY DO IT

Anybody else with any recommendations?

I've read Moore's and Masons. How was McMaster's book?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 19, 2017, 11:38:35 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 19, 2017, 10:52:22 PM
How was McMaster's book?

It's probably the best policy work to come out on the war, and while it really tattoos the Johnson Administration, he is very critical of the JCS in knowingly allowing itself to be square pegged into political round holes.  His angle was consistently "politicians are supposed to be bullshit artists that shit the bed, professional military men are supposed to be above that" attitude. 

My only (minor) nitpick of the book is that I think McMaster is a little too critical of the Kennedy Administration's shedding so much of the JCS out of the national security staff model developed under Ike and ensconced as its own power silo; while I have never been a huge fan of the Whiz Kids, quite frankly after Bay of Pigs, the Missile Crisis and some other issues, I can appreciate why Kennedy did what he did.

Definitely worth reading.  I was going to reread it, as I hadn't read it since it first came out;  in light of recent events, I wonder if McMaster should reread it, too.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 20, 2017, 12:04:20 AM
Thanks, Ill put it on the list.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 20, 2017, 12:05:01 AM
Somebody else on Languish read it not too long ago, think it was Habbaku or Berkut.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 20, 2017, 12:53:08 AM
Wait, Trump picked an academic for his cabinet over all the bizniz men he could have gotten?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 20, 2017, 12:56:07 AM
Don't underestimate the corrupting effect of being in Trump's orbit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 20, 2017, 02:47:05 AM
I read Dereliction of Duty a while ago. IIRC, while he talks a lot about how domestic considerations drove a lot of the actions taken regarding Vietnam in the lead-up to full scale war, he doesn't come out and explicitly say what he thinks about that. There was certainly a lot of unnecessarily poor decisions made regarding Vietnam, but for instance weighing picking a lane in Vietnam against pushing through the Great Society is something that only the politicians can do. The Chiefs cannot advise on that kind of decisions.

There were many *facenapalm* moments though, according to the book. Johnson telling his military to "kill more Viet Cong"... they could have advised him (and McNamara) that that's not a strategy, and that they need a strategy for winning the war.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 20, 2017, 06:28:26 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 20, 2017, 02:47:05 AM
I read Dereliction of Duty a while ago. IIRC, while he talks a lot about how domestic considerations drove a lot of the actions taken regarding Vietnam in the lead-up to full scale war, he doesn't come out and explicitly say what he thinks about that. There was certainly a lot of unnecessarily poor decisions made regarding Vietnam, but for instance weighing picking a lane in Vietnam against pushing through the Great Society is something that only the politicians can do. The Chiefs cannot advise on that kind of decisions.

There were many *facenapalm* moments though, according to the book. Johnson telling his military to "kill more Viet Cong"... they could have advised him (and McNamara) that that's not a strategy, and that they need a strategy for winning the war.

Nice  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 20, 2017, 07:21:41 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 20, 2017, 12:56:07 AM
Don't underestimate the corrupting effect of being in Trump's orbit.

No kidding.  I don't think my respect for anybody whoring themselves to TrumpWorld has dropped so far so fast than for McMaster.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on December 20, 2017, 08:40:22 PM
QuoteChickenhawk, Robert Mason

Loved that book in High School.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 20, 2017, 08:48:28 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 20, 2017, 08:40:22 PM
QuoteChickenhawk, Robert Mason

Loved that book in High School.

Yeah, that was one of the really accessible Vietnam books in the early '80s.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on December 20, 2017, 09:05:57 PM
I'd add to the Vietnam list

They Marched Into Sunlight

A Rumor of War

Street without Joy, and

Flight of the Intruder

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on December 20, 2017, 09:09:10 PM
Loved Chickenhawk.  My introduction was Nam
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 20, 2017, 09:10:15 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 20, 2017, 09:05:57 PM
I'd add to the Vietnam list
Flight of the Intruder

Yes; as usual, a much better book than the movie.  The whole "phantom shitter" subplot was absolutely hilarious.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on December 20, 2017, 10:27:09 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 20, 2017, 09:10:15 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 20, 2017, 09:05:57 PM
I'd add to the Vietnam list
Flight of the Intruder

Yes; as usual, a much better book than the movie.  The whole "phantom shitter" subplot was absolutely hilarious.

Gotta admit, though, that the movie had peak Willem Dafoe.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 21, 2017, 05:04:10 AM
Oooh, the 2018 Verlag Militaria catalogue just arrived! Sweet! :w00t:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on December 24, 2017, 11:56:24 AM
Just finished re-reading Downfall https://www.amazon.com/Downfall-End-Imperial-Japanese-Empire/dp/0141001461 (https://www.amazon.com/Downfall-End-Imperial-Japanese-Empire/dp/0141001461), the 1999 book about the end of the war in the Pacific (not the book that the movie was based on).  I'd forgotten how good this book was.  For those interested in the issues that led to the use of the atomic bomb, it is particularly valuable.  I think it puts to bed the theories that the bomb need not have been used, using the viewpoints of both Japanese and American decision-makers.  Really well researched and very readable.  Highly recommended.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 24, 2017, 07:33:08 PM
Tokien had an Icelandic nanny.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on December 24, 2017, 08:09:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 24, 2017, 07:33:08 PM
Tokien had an Icelandic nanny.

J.L.L. Tokien?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on December 25, 2017, 05:18:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 24, 2017, 11:56:24 AM
Just finished re-reading Downfall https://www.amazon.com/Downfall-End-Imperial-Japanese-Empire/dp/0141001461 (https://www.amazon.com/Downfall-End-Imperial-Japanese-Empire/dp/0141001461), the 1999 book about the end of the war in the Pacific (not the book that the movie was based on).  I'd forgotten how good this book was.  For those interested in the issues that led to the use of the atomic bomb, it is particularly valuable.  I think it puts to bed the theories that the bomb need not have been used, using the viewpoints of both Japanese and American decision-makers.  Really well researched and very readable.  Highly recommended.

Interesting. How does he fit the Soviet invasion into the decision to surrender?  The reviews don't mention it much, if at all.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on December 26, 2017, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: Maladict on December 25, 2017, 05:18:02 PM
Interesting. How does he fit the Soviet invasion into the decision to surrender?  The reviews don't mention it much, if at all.

He discusses the Soviet entry quite a bit.  The main impact was to disappoint the Japanese foreign office, who believed that the Soviets could be a valuable intermediary in the peace negotiations that the Japanese felt would follow their defeat of the American invasion of Kyushu.  When the decision was made to surrender, Tokyo still was unaware of the scale of the defeat of the Kwantung Army (the latest they had was that there was fierce fighting on the eastern border, but they were unaware that the Western border had fallen).

The Japanese (including the Emperor) were staking everything on the defeat of Operation Olympic.  The Emperor made the decision to make peace because he realized that the Bomb made an invasion unnecessary.  Interestingly, the US had plans to use seven A-bombs in conjunction with the invasion, if they went ahead with the invasion.  Franks believes that there would be no invasion, because Nimitz was secretly opposed to it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 26, 2017, 08:53:04 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 02, 2014, 11:19:24 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 01, 2014, 07:37:30 PM
Words of Radiance, the sequel to Way of Kings.

Holy crap this was great! Sanderson's best yet. He even made big progress on his two flaws, pacing and humor. Plot, world building, characters, and themes were as good as ever.

I liked Way of Kings a lot.  When I was in the book store last week they didnt have the Radiance so it will have to wait for me to get through the stack I did get.

Quote from: Grey Fox on June 02, 2014, 12:16:39 PM
Words is better than WoK.

Is Interlude are less boring and less about random characters. The Oververse of the Cosmere is also more apparent, which is good.

One thing I do not like about Brandon is how young he makes his characters. You are not GRR Martin, ffs.

Quote from: Maximus on June 02, 2014, 12:20:49 PM
Yep, it was a masterwork. Probably his best-written book yet, which is something given its size. The Emperor's Soul may be a contender but it's a novella.

I reread The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance and then powered through Edgedancer and Oathbringer in five days.

Wow. Edgedancer, a novella centering on Lift, went down like a fine appetizer. Lots of cool lore and some interesting plot development. Oathbringer though, that's the real deal. Every bit as good as Words of Radiance if not more. So much awesome stuff going down in this book, the culmination of Dalinar's arc was superb.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on December 27, 2017, 11:31:32 AM
Thanks for the reminder  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: merithyn on December 27, 2017, 02:23:06 PM
I've tried so hard to read American Gods. I've tried twice, and each time, I stop in the same place: when they get to Cairo, IL.

Is it worth it to keep going? I'll push through, but damn...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on December 27, 2017, 03:47:57 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 26, 2017, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: Maladict on December 25, 2017, 05:18:02 PM
Interesting. How does he fit the Soviet invasion into the decision to surrender?  The reviews don't mention it much, if at all.

He discusses the Soviet entry quite a bit.  The main impact was to disappoint the Japanese foreign office, who believed that the Soviets could be a valuable intermediary in the peace negotiations that the Japanese felt would follow their defeat of the American invasion of Kyushu.  When the decision was made to surrender, Tokyo still was unaware of the scale of the defeat of the Kwantung Army (the latest they had was that there was fierce fighting on the eastern border, but they were unaware that the Western border had fallen).

The Japanese (including the Emperor) were staking everything on the defeat of Operation Olympic.  The Emperor made the decision to make peace because he realized that the Bomb made an invasion unnecessary.  Interestingly, the US had plans to use seven A-bombs in conjunction with the invasion, if they went ahead with the invasion.  Franks believes that there would be no invasion, because Nimitz was secretly opposed to it.

Thanks for that, I'll probably pick it up when my to-read pile allows it.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 27, 2017, 03:59:32 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 27, 2017, 02:23:06 PM
I've tried so hard to read American Gods. I've tried twice, and each time, I stop in the same place: when they get to Cairo, IL.

Is it worth it to keep going? I'll push through, but damn...

I found the book disappointing after the glowing reviews on Languish.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on December 27, 2017, 05:46:39 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 27, 2017, 03:59:32 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 27, 2017, 02:23:06 PM
I've tried so hard to read American Gods. I've tried twice, and each time, I stop in the same place: when they get to Cairo, IL.

Is it worth it to keep going? I'll push through, but damn...

I found the book disappointing after the glowing reviews on Languish.

Same.  I'm pretty sure I finished it, but it was so uncompelling that I don't recall for sure.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on December 28, 2017, 01:09:32 PM
I liked when Odin insulted the pagan girl.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on December 30, 2017, 11:56:19 AM
My parents lent me a biography of opera composers by Victor Borges called "Intermissions."  The plots of operas and the lives of composers were such that Borges really didn't need to put much effort into it to make the book hilarious.  I think Rex Francorum would enjoy this one (yes, there's a biography of Handel.)

It's hard to imagine a time when Victor Borges caught on.  He was a child prodigy who eventually adapted his classical piano playing into a classical piano-comedy act where he told anti-Nazi jokes.  By luck he was in Sweden when the German invaded Denmark; fled to Finland and then got on a ship to America.  He had all of $17 and spoke no English, but watched movies until he spoke the language, translated his jokes and started performing his classical piano-comedy act again; eventually performing on movies and in television.  Even the whole "America welcoming refugees" element of the story seems to belong to a misty, romantic past.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on December 30, 2017, 02:14:23 PM
Victor Borges was brilliant.  It's hard to imagine a time or place where he would NOT catch on.  I'd never heard that he was an author, though, so will see if I can find this at the library.

How much of his background legend is of his own making is hard to say.  He was in show business, after all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 01, 2018, 03:58:25 PM
I found a collection of Henry James' short stories/novellas that I had bought back in high school.  We were required to read "The Turn of the Screw," and that was the only thing I read at the time.  I get now why they had us read it; it's short, a good introduction to a major author and a good introduction to concepts like ambiguity and an unreliable narrator.  At the time I disliked it; James' prose seemed dull (it is quite heavy, even today I sometimes find myself wondering when Henry is going to end the sentence) and the whole "Ghost story" element isn't exactly Stephen King.  Today I realize he's a great writer with both a masterpiece of prose as well as a real insight into psychology.  The best one in this collection, which I hadn't read before, was "Daisy Miller".  "The Beast in the Jungle" is a stylistic masterpiece, but the protagonist is a little too strange to care about.  "The Aspern Papers" with its whole McGuffin driven plot was clever.  "The Pupil" was great, but maybe the antagonists are more interesting than the protagonists.  The other two stories, "Washington Square" and "The Turn of the Screw" I had read before.

My favorite James short story not in the collection is The Madonna of the Future (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2460/2460-h/2460-h.htm).  I always think of it when I hear the Bob Dylan Song "When I Paint My Masterpiece."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 07, 2018, 08:29:10 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 19, 2017, 10:24:55 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 19, 2017, 09:51:12 PM
:Embarrass: I've drilled very deep in other areas.

FFS man, there's only so many ways Kursk is going to come out  :P 


Anyway, my Required Reading Vietnam War List--

Non-Fiction
A Bright Shining Lie, Neil Sheehan
Dereliction of Duty, H.R. McMaster
A Rumor of War, Philip Caputo
We Were Soldiers Once...and Young, Hal Moore
The Best and The Brightest, David Halberstam
In Retrospect, Robert McNamara
Chickenhawk, Robert Mason

Fiction
Fields of Fire, Jim Webb
Going After Cacciato and The Things They Carried, Tim O'Brien

I have a collection of short stories from the Vietnamese perspective around here somewhere, can't remember the name;  but I would like to read General Giap's book one day. HOW DID THEY DO IT

Anybody else with any recommendations?

About halfway through McMaster's book. Like watching an episode of The Twilight Zone. Every Vietnam get should read that book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2018, 08:02:33 PM
I started reading the gift I got from my Republican aunt and uncle, What Happened. All it has mainly made me feel in the first 30 pages is very depressed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2018, 08:41:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2018, 08:02:33 PM
I started reading the gift I got from my Republican aunt and uncle, What Happened. All it has mainly made me feel in the first 30 pages is very depressed.

Are you going to finish it? I would be interested to know if she has anything worthwhile to say.

Showing such respect to my Republican friends and relatives all this time has paid off since none of them have gloated at all  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2018, 08:45:52 PM
I will give it a try. So far it just is dredging up memories of November 9th and how it felt to be an American in the first following months.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 12, 2018, 08:57:25 PM
Finished Duffy's book on the army of Frederick the Great. Reasonably good, pros and cons similar to his books on the Austrian army. One thing he could have done was discuss what did and what did not influence the Prussians. For instance, what were the similarities and differences between the Prussian cantonal system and the Swedish indelningsverk? Was Frederick's early fascination with cold steel influenced by the Swedish way in the GNW? And why does Duffy describe a guy inventing aiming screws for artillery decades after they had been introduced in the Swedish army without making any additional comment (was it a new type or whatever)?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: dps on January 12, 2018, 11:25:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 30, 2017, 02:14:23 PM
Victor Borges was brilliant.  It's hard to imagine a time or place where he would NOT catch on.  I'd never heard that he was an author, though, so will see if I can find this at the library.

Yeah, if he's anywhere near as good as a writer as he was a performer, it should be well worth seeking out.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on January 12, 2018, 11:27:47 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2018, 08:45:52 PM
I will give it a try. So far it just is dredging up memories of November 9th and how it felt to be an American in the first following months.

I bought that (more for my wife; shared Kindle account) as a performative act more than as a "book I want to ever read."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 13, 2018, 04:00:03 AM
Surely some people here have read The Enemy at the Gate, by Wheatcroft (about the siege of Vienna)? I started reading it and two things struck me:

1) He seems to have done research all over the place but not in Istanbul and he seems to have used very little Ottoman sources. I don't get it.

2) He claims that the Japanese imperial family was rendered impotent with the creation of the Tokugawa shogunate. I don't get it. Even if you count the Go-Daigo adventure that's more than 250 years before the Tokugawa. Doesn't he know basic stuff or doesn't he care about presenting the facts correctly?

So my question is, is the book factually correct about the siege of Vienna? Should I read it? It seems to be a good read, and I'd love to read it, but I don't like wasting my time on questionable quality.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2018, 06:05:34 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 13, 2018, 04:00:03 AM
Surely some people here have read The Enemy at the Gate, by Wheatcroft (about the siege of Vienna)? I started reading it and two things struck me:

1) He seems to have done research all over the place but not in Istanbul and he seems to have used very little Ottoman sources. I don't get it.

2) He claims that the Japanese imperial family was rendered impotent with the creation of the Tokugawa shogunate. I don't get it. Even if you count the Go-Daigo adventure that's more than 250 years before the Tokugawa. Doesn't he know basic stuff or doesn't he care about presenting the facts correctly?

So my question is, is the book factually correct about the siege of Vienna? Should I read it? It seems to be a good read, and I'd love to read it, but I don't like wasting my time on questionable quality.
Why is he talking about the Japanese imperial family in a book about the siege of Vienna?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 13, 2018, 11:32:43 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2018, 06:05:34 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 13, 2018, 04:00:03 AM
Surely some people here have read The Enemy at the Gate, by Wheatcroft (about the siege of Vienna)? I started reading it and two things struck me:

1) He seems to have done research all over the place but not in Istanbul and he seems to have used very little Ottoman sources. I don't get it.

2) He claims that the Japanese imperial family was rendered impotent with the creation of the Tokugawa shogunate. I don't get it. Even if you count the Go-Daigo adventure that's more than 250 years before the Tokugawa. Doesn't he know basic stuff or doesn't he care about presenting the facts correctly?

So my question is, is the book factually correct about the siege of Vienna? Should I read it? It seems to be a good read, and I'd love to read it, but I don't like wasting my time on questionable quality.
Why is he talking about the Japanese imperial family in a book about the siege of Vienna?

He compares the Ottoman and Japanese empires and notes that the Sultans didn't lose political power the way the Emperors did.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on January 13, 2018, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 13, 2018, 04:00:03 AM
1) He seems to have done research all over the place but not in Istanbul and he seems to have used very little Ottoman sources. I don't get it.

Have not read it, but this does not surprise me, unfortunately. Reading Ottoman sources is hard, and requires long training, which many "scholars" consider they can avoid by reading stuff in translation. A quick, non exhaustive, perusal of Wheatcroft reviews in academic presses indicates he was well reviewed in places dedicated to military history and general audiences, while experts in the field seem to decry precisely his engagement only with German sources (and often only through English translation).



Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 13, 2018, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on January 13, 2018, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 13, 2018, 04:00:03 AM
1) He seems to have done research all over the place but not in Istanbul and he seems to have used very little Ottoman sources. I don't get it.

Have not read it, but this does not surprise me, unfortunately. Reading Ottoman sources is hard, and requires long training, which many "scholars" consider they can avoid by reading stuff in translation. A quick, non exhaustive, perusal of Wheatcroft reviews in academic presses indicates he was well reviewed in places dedicated to military history and general audiences, while experts in the field seem to decry precisely his engagement only with German sources (and often only through English translation).

Thanks! Yeah when I read his acknowledgments and glanced at his sources they seemed oddly parochial. I've often encountered the same with Swedish writers dealing with the Great Northern War. It seems lazy to me to think that you can just ignore important parts of the story if you truly want to understand it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 13, 2018, 03:45:51 PM
Quote from: dps on January 12, 2018, 11:25:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 30, 2017, 02:14:23 PM
Victor Borges was brilliant.  It's hard to imagine a time or place where he would NOT catch on.  I'd never heard that he was an author, though, so will see if I can find this at the library.

Yeah, if he's anywhere near as good as a writer as he was a performer, it should be well worth seeking out.

Out of print, but available at Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/My-Favorite-Intermissions-Musical-Missing/dp/038502651X) for a reasonable price.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 13, 2018, 04:14:08 PM
A brief intermission before A Bright Shining Lie.

Going to knockout General Truong's The Easter offensive of 1972
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 13, 2018, 04:18:41 PM
Is Max Hasting's 'All Hell Let Loose' worth reading?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on January 14, 2018, 12:33:12 PM
reading 'secrets from the Diogenes club,' by kim newman. i'm a huge fan of his anno dracula series, and the diogenes series is a bit of a side quest thing, filling in on some other characters, though for me lacks some of the oomph of the vampire stuff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 15, 2018, 06:44:09 AM
Quote from: mongers on January 13, 2018, 04:18:41 PM
Is Max Hasting's 'All Hell Let Loose' worth reading?

I enjoyed it. As good an overview as you could expect in a single volume. Good mix of political and military analysis alongside effects on ordinary soldiers and civilians. I've read quite a few of Hastings' books and they are always well-researched, easy to read and balanced (except the Falklands war one where he was embedded). That said, Beevor's single volume is just as good,
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 15, 2018, 09:14:16 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 13, 2018, 04:14:08 PM
A brief intermission before A Bright Shining Lie.

Heh, here's a coincidence - I'm reading A Bright Shining Lie right now!

It will be interesting to compare impressions. So far, I'm really enjoying it, though it takes a while to get into it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: barkdreg on January 15, 2018, 09:32:05 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on January 14, 2018, 12:33:12 PM
reading 'secrets from the Diogenes club,' by kim newman. i'm a huge fan of his anno dracula series, and the diogenes series is a bit of a side quest thing, filling in on some other characters, though for me lacks some of the oomph of the vampire stuff.

I've been wanting to read this for a long time. I adored his Genevieve books, even though they are Warhammer fiction.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 15, 2018, 09:49:16 AM
Quote from: Gups on January 15, 2018, 06:44:09 AM
Quote from: mongers on January 13, 2018, 04:18:41 PM
Is Max Hasting's 'All Hell Let Loose' worth reading?

I enjoyed it. As good an overview as you could expect in a single volume. Good mix of political and military analysis alongside effects on ordinary soldiers and civilians. I've read quite a few of Hastings' books and they are always well-researched, easy to read and balanced (except the Falklands war one where he was embedded). That said, Beevor's single volume is just as good,

Gups, thanks for that, I'll get started on it now. :cheers:


Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 15, 2018, 10:55:53 AM
I've been reading the Fire and Fury book about the Trump presidency.  I wouldn't normally have bought such a book, but when the President sent a cease and desist letter I decided to give it a go.  It reads like a novel, and there are often details mentioned where I ask "how would anyone know that?".  Things like what a person was thinking or private details that nobody could observe.  Still, I suspect that the character sketches and events are broadly accurate.  Mostly it's just backbiting and incompetence.  It's not a flattering portrait of Trump.  He's a stupid, cruel little boy in an old man's body.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 15, 2018, 11:01:53 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 15, 2018, 10:55:53 AM
I've been reading the Fire and Fury book about the Trump presidency.  I wouldn't normally have bought such a book, but when the President sent a cease and desist letter I decided to give it a go.  It reads like a novel, and there are often details mentioned where I ask "how would anyone know that?".  Things like what a person was thinking or private details that nobody could observe.  Still, I suspect that the character sketches and events are broadly accurate.  Mostly it's just backbiting and incompetence.  It's not a flattering portrait of Trump.  He's a stupid, cruel little boy in an old man's body.

Raz, that's an excellent summation. 

Careful people don't borrow it off you without proper citation.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on January 15, 2018, 11:19:15 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 26, 2017, 08:53:04 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 02, 2014, 11:19:24 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 01, 2014, 07:37:30 PM
Words of Radiance, the sequel to Way of Kings.

Holy crap this was great! Sanderson's best yet. He even made big progress on his two flaws, pacing and humor. Plot, world building, characters, and themes were as good as ever.

I liked Way of Kings a lot.  When I was in the book store last week they didnt have the Radiance so it will have to wait for me to get through the stack I did get.

Quote from: Grey Fox on June 02, 2014, 12:16:39 PM
Words is better than WoK.

Is Interlude are less boring and less about random characters. The Oververse of the Cosmere is also more apparent, which is good.

One thing I do not like about Brandon is how young he makes his characters. You are not GRR Martin, ffs.

Quote from: Maximus on June 02, 2014, 12:20:49 PM
Yep, it was a masterwork. Probably his best-written book yet, which is something given its size. The Emperor's Soul may be a contender but it's a novella.

I reread The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance and then powered through Edgedancer and Oathbringer in five days.

Wow. Edgedancer, a novella centering on Lift, went down like a fine appetizer. Lots of cool lore and some interesting plot development. Oathbringer though, that's the real deal. Every bit as good as Words of Radiance if not more. So much awesome stuff going down in this book, the culmination of Dalinar's arc was superb.

In the past years Sanderson as fixed my main complaint. His characters, in the cosmere atleast, are all getting old.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on January 15, 2018, 11:53:26 AM
Tom Holland's Dynasty is good squeal to Rubicon and a good read in its own right.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 15, 2018, 08:41:48 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 15, 2018, 09:14:16 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 13, 2018, 04:14:08 PM
A brief intermission before A Bright Shining Lie.

Heh, here's a coincidence - I'm reading A Bright Shining Lie right now!

It will be interesting to compare impressions. So far, I'm really enjoying it, though it takes a while to get into it.

Nice, I would like to get your take. I primed it with Street Without Joy then McMaster's book prior.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 17, 2018, 07:10:00 AM
Finished Fighting at Sea in the Eighteenth Century: The Art of Sailing Warfare, by Sam Willis. Pretty interesting, and short and sweet. I am not an expert on naval warfare in the age of sail, but the info on, among other things, identifying friend and foe and intent, and the various actual effects of the weather gage, seemed fresh and reasonable. I don't know if conventional history of the period is as bad as he makes it out to be, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's right.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 17, 2018, 08:25:48 PM
One more side track before I get back to Nam.

Give Them a Volley and Charge!: The Battle of Inkermann 1854 Kindle Edition
by Patrick Mercer (Author)

So far real good. However, you better know something of the tactical battlefield because no maps are in the book.

Quote

Other incidents occurred to unsettle the picquets. A shot was fired which caused the whole line to stand-to-arms, but it was found to be Private Simmonds of No 3 Company of the 95th who had discharged his rifle accidentally, wounding himself in the hand. As the drizzle continued fitfully and the fog began to swirl thicker and thicker, unusual noises were heard:


Fucking privates. :angry:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2018, 09:31:58 PM
For 19th century warfare, I recommend "Mother, May You Never See the Sights I Have Seen: The Fifty-Seventh Massachusetts Veteran Volunteers in the Army of the Potomac, 1864-1865" by Warren Wilkinson

Saw ridiculous heavy fighting in the Overland Campaign, particularly at Spotsylvannia Courthouse IIRC. Around 20% of the regiment was killed in battle, and of the rest only ten soldiers escaped the war without being wounded or dying of disease.

https://www.amazon.com/Mother-Never-Sights-Have-Seen/dp/0060162570
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 17, 2018, 10:52:45 PM
Eh, nothing matches the Brits in form and style.

Quote
'Where the devil are you going to, sir? Form on the left of the Grenadiers!'

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 18, 2018, 09:33:24 AM
So I'm reading The Wooden World: An Anatomy of the Georgian Navy, by N.A.M. Rodger. I know it's 30 years old, but still his description of homosexuality in the navy seems a bit limited even for the 1980s. He treats it strictly as a crime, and bases his results on the number of cases brought to trial, and some handwaving that there wasn't a lot of privacy on board. He would have to elaborate a bit on that last bit to fully convince me. Even if you don't consider those officers who had their own cabins I can imagine that there were some nooks and crannies available on a 74, and even without physical privacy a ship was a place where men often spent time in extreme physical proximity to other men, I wouldn't be surprised if buttcheeks could be grabbed etc. Where there's a gay there's a way. And of course the author completely disregards the non-physical aspect of love that surely could exist without ever finding its way to trial. His final sentence on the subject sounds more like he is trying to convince the reader and/or himself:

"The Eighteenth century Navy was largely populated by young single men of vigorously heterosexual inclination, with a relatively small proportion married, but very few indeed who were not interested in women."

"Vigorously", really? That wasn't at all gratuitous. I like how he also deftly moves the goalpost, surely a number of men with some interest in women could consider batting for the other team while at sea?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on January 18, 2018, 01:20:13 PM
Has anyone read Homo Sapiens or Homo Deus?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 18, 2018, 01:56:35 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2018, 01:20:13 PM
Has anyone read Homo Sapiens or Homo Deus?

I read Sapiens, a while ago. I quite enjoyed it, as far as meta-history stuff goes; some of the points were a bit of a stretch, but he certainly has a way with synthesizing stuff. I really liked his section on the importance of the intangible for social cooperation. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2018, 07:26:27 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 18, 2018, 09:33:24 AM


"Vigorously", really? That wasn't at all gratuitous. I like how he also deftly moves the goalpost, surely a number of men with some interest in women could consider batting for the other team while at sea?

Especially since the belief in heterosexual/homosexaul dichotomy did not exist yet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 18, 2018, 08:49:01 PM
Finished Fire and Fury.  It's like an ode to Ratfucking.  The book only cover the period up to August 18th, when Bannon gets fired.  I have a feeling that Bannon could have been credited with co-writer.  Mostly it's just gossip, there author really doesn't seem to care much about policy or politics one way or the other.  It's never clear what people are actually doing, as it what their jobs are.  That may be because nobody was actually doing anything.  For instance, I was kinda curious what Sebastian Gorka was being payed to do, but he wasn't even mentioned.  I don't do celebrity gossip, so the book was kinda weird to me.

All incoming administrations have problems with staff at first: you gets lots of hangers-on who can't do their job or are actively destructive.  This is different in that there was nobody but useless people or people who are actively destructive.  Example:  One of the first things they do is try to write up the Muslim ban EO.  Steven Miller is ordered to write it up.  Steven Miller is not a lawyer, so they direct him to go online to find out how to write this.  You know, I'm sure they could have asked around D.C. for some lawyer working at a think tank or something to come in and write this.  The order was released without any warning or instructions, so naturally there was chaos as nobody in the airports knew what they were suppose to do.  Protests occur and a judge blocks the EO.  Bannon considers this a win.  He wants there to be chaos.  He wants protesters in the street. He wants to bring the whole system down.  Anyone like this isn't serving the President's interests unless the President happens to be a super villain.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on January 18, 2018, 09:11:38 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 18, 2018, 09:33:24 AM
"The Eighteenth century Navy was largely populated by young single men of vigorously heterosexual inclination, with a relatively small proportion married, but very few indeed who were not interested in women."

"Vigorously", really? That wasn't at all gratuitous. I like how he also deftly moves the goalpost, surely a number of men with some interest in women could consider batting for the other team while at sea?

Yes, it shows much more Rodger's own discomfort with the topic (and own "vigorous" sense that he should provide a denial to the stereotype) than actual engagement with the topic.

Ongoing research from a grad student at Johns Hopkins shows precisely the construction of intimate spaces on the wooden ship, a much richer literature than Rodger allowed for. Rodger seemed to believe that the harsh punishment (death) prevented men from engaging in sodomy, but it now appears much more believable that the harsh punishment prevented actual denunciations (why lose able-bodied seamen over this?). Slightly related, Paul Gilje, in his recent "Swearing Like a Sailor" briefly follows the fortunes of "bugger" as an insult, as a proxy to the issue.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 18, 2018, 10:09:07 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 18, 2018, 08:49:01 PM
Finished Fire and Fury.  It's like an ode to Ratfucking.  The book only cover the period up to August 18th, when Bannon gets fired.  I have a feeling that Bannon could have been credited with co-writer.  Mostly it's just gossip, there author really doesn't seem to care much about policy or politics one way or the other.  It's never clear what people are actually doing, as it what their jobs are.  That may be because nobody was actually doing anything.  For instance, I was kinda curious what Sebastian Gorka was being payed to do, but he wasn't even mentioned.  I don't do celebrity gossip, so the book was kinda weird to me.

All incoming administrations have problems with staff at first: you gets lots of hangers-on who can't do their job or are actively destructive.  This is different in that there was nobody but useless people or people who are actively destructive.  Example:  One of the first things they do is try to write up the Muslim ban EO.  Steven Miller is ordered to write it up.  Steven Miller is not a lawyer, so they direct him to go online to find out how to write this.  You know, I'm sure they could have asked around D.C. for some lawyer working at a think tank or something to come in and write this.  The order was released without any warning or instructions, so naturally there was chaos as nobody in the airports knew what they were suppose to do.  Protests occur and a judge blocks the EO.  Bannon considers this a win.  He wants there to be chaos.  He wants protesters in the street. He wants to bring the whole system down.  Anyone like this isn't serving the President's interests unless the President happens to be a super villain.

Nice wrap up Raz.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 18, 2018, 10:35:48 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2018, 01:20:13 PM
Has anyone read Homo Sapiens or Homo Deus?

I also read Sapiens.  Lots of great questions in there that I hadn't considered, but which in retrospect seem like they should have been obvious.  I think he overstates his answers (which are generally plausible, but rely too heavily on his own assumptions).  In sum:  fun and thought-provoking, but not really informative.  Highly recommended for what it is, and not spoiled by what it isn't.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on January 18, 2018, 11:37:41 PM
Thanks to both of you.  I will give it a read.  Your thoughts are consistent with the Guardian review.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 19, 2018, 12:47:41 AM
Sorry had to share
From Give Them a Volley and Charge: Battle of Inkerman.

Quote

The 55th were only a handful but they had been horribly embarrassed. Added to which, still standing on the spot where they had been overrun was Colonel Warren, untouched by the Russians who flowed around him and in a towering temper! There could be no better incentive for the 55th for they were under the eyes of Raglan and their furious brigade commander was waiting impatiently amongst the Russians to be rejoined by his men. Only a matter of minutes after they had been forced out, the 55th counter-attacked the parapet and, after a number of grisly combats where the bayonet was freely plied and officers used both swords and pistols, the Russians retreated. Indeed, it was in this fight that Lieutenant-Colonel Daubeney was crossing swords with a Russian officer when a soldier of the Rifle Brigade dashed up and ran the Russian through with his bayonet saying, 'There you are, Sir!'7 as he did so. The Russians did not go far, however, for they had tasted victory and they knew that there was plenty of support to hand with which to attack again.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 19, 2018, 06:38:03 AM
I liked Sapiens too and am pleased it's become such a huge best seller here. I particularly enjoyed the chapter on how wheat had domesticated humans rather than the other way round. The strident chapter(s?) on vegetarianism while well-written seemed our of place to me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 20, 2018, 05:09:03 PM
I'm reading a narrowly focused but still fascinating book called Agents of Innovation: The General Board and the Design of the Fleet that Defeated the Japanese Navy by John T. Kuehn. It describes the role of the US Navy's General Board in determining the characteristics of the US Navy's ships and bases from 1900 to 1950.  While that's a pretty specific topic, it hasn't been dealt with in any detail in any other works I have seen.  What's really interesting, though, is the book's depiction of how an organization deals with change and how it interacts with other "players" who have a voice in the same matters it deals with.

The General Board had an interesting composition; while it's membership included the expected Commander in Chief of the Fleet (the unfortunately-named CinCUS), heads of ship design, intelligence, aviation, engineering, and gunnery, it also included the Commandant of the Marine Corps, the head of the War College, and two to four (it varied over time) Commander or Captains fresh from command at sea (they were generally seen as the "up and comers"), so it had a very diverse set of viewpoints - far more so than any equivalent in other navies.  The idea was the the CinC would come up with strategic missions, the War College would determine the strategies that could fulfill the missions, and the General Board would both provide guidance on the capabilities the Navy needed in its ships, aircraft, and bases, and then pick the best options from the designs presented to them.

Outside of this, the Fleet Commanders had a lot of say, and CinCUS had to over-rule the board at times.  In general, time proved that the General Board was more forward-thinking than the fleet commanders or CinCUS.  The Board was wrong about airships (they proved far too fragile in practice), but was right about the Standard Battleships, the need for small carriers, and the need for mobile bases.  Small carriers were never built until WW2, but it is clear that they could have, and should have, been built then the Board wanted to  (the GB's preference would have been for the Brooklyn class to sacrifice 6 of their 15 six-inch guns to carry, instead, 12 fighter and 12 scout bombers).

The details of the projects are of interest only to the naval enthusiast, but the broader strokes might be of interest to anyone interested in how large organizations deal with uncertainty and constraints like the naval treaties of the 1930s.  The history of the General Board (and especially their interactions with the war College) shows the value of getting the widest possible input while not getting bogged down in petty details or assuming that old answers were still the right answers.  Lots of the GB's decisions were made based on recommendations by its most junior members, or the even more junior students at the War College.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 20, 2018, 06:44:40 PM
BTW, has anyone read Thomas Ricks's Churchill and Orwell: The Fight for Freedom, and would they recommend it?  I am leery of books written by think tank employees, but I like the idea of the book.  Anyone?  Bueller?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on January 21, 2018, 08:25:13 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 20, 2018, 05:09:03 PM
I'm reading a narrowly focused but still fascinating book called Agents of Innovation: The General Board and the Design of the Fleet that Defeated the Japanese Navy by John T. Kuehn. It describes the role of the US Navy's General Board in determining the characteristics of the US Navy's ships and bases from 1900 to 1950.  While that's a pretty specific topic, it hasn't been dealt with in any detail in any other works I have seen.  What's really interesting, though, is the book's depiction of how an organization deals with change and how it interacts with other "players" who have a voice in the same matters it deals with.

The General Board had an interesting composition; while it's membership included the expected Commander in Chief of the Fleet (the unfortunately-named CinCUS), heads of ship design, intelligence, aviation, engineering, and gunnery, it also included the Commandant of the Marine Corps, the head of the War College, and two to four (it varied over time) Commander or Captains fresh from command at sea (they were generally seen as the "up and comers"), so it had a very diverse set of viewpoints - far more so than any equivalent in other navies.  The idea was the the CinC would come up with strategic missions, the War College would determine the strategies that could fulfill the missions, and the General Board would both provide guidance on the capabilities the Navy needed in its ships, aircraft, and bases, and then pick the best options from the designs presented to them.

Outside of this, the Fleet Commanders had a lot of say, and CinCUS had to over-rule the board at times.  In general, time proved that the General Board was more forward-thinking than the fleet commanders or CinCUS.  The Board was wrong about airships (they proved far too fragile in practice), but was right about the Standard Battleships, the need for small carriers, and the need for mobile bases.  Small carriers were never built until WW2, but it is clear that they could have, and should have, been built then the Board wanted to  (the GB's preference would have been for the Brooklyn class to sacrifice 6 of their 15 six-inch guns to carry, instead, 12 fighter and 12 scout bombers).

The details of the projects are of interest only to the naval enthusiast, but the broader strokes might be of interest to anyone interested in how large organizations deal with uncertainty and constraints like the naval treaties of the 1930s.  The history of the General Board (and especially their interactions with the war College) shows the value of getting the widest possible input while not getting bogged down in petty details or assuming that old answers were still the right answers.  Lots of the GB's decisions were made based on recommendations by its most junior members, or the even more junior students at the War College.

Internesting. How did other powers do it? I seem to remember that the germans had an office for designing ships that was separated from the ships users and that there was very little input coming from the fleet to the designers.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on January 21, 2018, 03:46:48 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 20, 2018, 05:09:03 PM
I'm reading a narrowly focused but still fascinating book called Agents of Innovation: The General Board and the Design of the Fleet that Defeated the Japanese Navy by John T. Kuehn. It describes the role of the US Navy's General Board in determining the characteristics of the US Navy's ships and bases from 1900 to 1950.  While that's a pretty specific topic, it hasn't been dealt with in any detail in any other works I have seen.  What's really interesting, though, is the book's depiction of how an organization deals with change and how it interacts with other "players" who have a voice in the same matters it deals with.

Interesting stuff. I used to have a link that defined in great detail how the US determined the size of the army needed. Quoted a lot of original source material. It looked at available manpower taking into consideration the needs of all the services - two ocean navy, army air force, marines, coast guard, replacements, etc. It was determined that a 100 division army would suffice for the war and was about the limit given all the other service's needs plus keeping a flow of replacements.  I think the army went a little over 100 divisions and I think US divisions tended on average to be quite large compared to the other combatants.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 21, 2018, 05:48:10 PM
Quote from: Threviel on January 21, 2018, 08:25:13 AM
Internesting. How did other powers do it? I seem to remember that the germans had an office for designing ships that was separated from the ships users and that there was very little input coming from the fleet to the designers.

The Germans, like the British, approached each ship design more-or-less sui generis.  They took lessons from previous classes, and had some pretty firm requirements for some things (they valued speed in battleships more than most, because they were going to be running away a lot).  They really didn't try to link requirements to strategy via analysis, they just built the best ships they could given the money and the capacity of the shipyards.  They didn't even try to stay within treaty limits (not even under Weimar).

The Brits had a Design Committee that was made up of the lords of admiralty and the technical branch chiefs.  They were more constrained by the treaties, but their strategy was more along the lines of maintaining fleets for home service, foreign stations, and SLOC protection.  War planning per se wasn't much of an influence.  They did recognize the air threat (and the possibilities that aircraft allowed them) before anyone else, and they emphasized technology (radar, sonar, fire control, etc) more than weapons.  They were really caught short when trying to operate in the Pacific, though. 

The Japanese built for a specific strategy that they never really tested at any time.  It resulted in some great ships, but a very imbalanced navy that was ill-equipped to fight the war they ended up actually having to fight.  Way too much wishful thinking in their planning.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 21, 2018, 06:01:45 PM
Quote from: KRonn on January 21, 2018, 03:46:48 PM
Interesting stuff. I used to have a link that defined in great detail how the US determined the size of the army needed. Quoted a lot of original source material. It looked at available manpower taking into consideration the needs of all the services - two ocean navy, army air force, marines, coast guard, replacements, etc. It was determined that a 100 division army would suffice for the war and was about the limit given all the other service's needs plus keeping a flow of replacements.  I think the army went a little over 100 divisions and I think US divisions tended on average to be quite large compared to the other combatants.

I read a great book on the same kind of topic, but regarding the Navy and its growth in WW2.  Manpower was always an issue.  None of the services really played the manpower game honestly.  The Army wanted 100 divisions when it wasn't possible to ship them and support them.  The Navy wanted to "reserve" manpower for ships that wouldn't be built for anther year, and had more Seabee battalions than they could actually use.  The Air Force assigned support units to combat commands to hide their real "tail to tooth" ratio.  And no one really planned well for the high losses in bomber crews and infantrymen.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 21, 2018, 06:03:17 PM
Continuing on with more Victorian era fights

Zulu Rising: The Epic Story of iSandlwana and Rorke's Drift
Knight, Ian

The great war with Russia,: The invasion of the Crimea; a personal retrospect of the battles of the Alma, Balaclava, and Inkerman, and of the winter of 1854-55,&c
Russell, William Howard

Like Wolves on the Fold: The Defence of Rorke's Drift
Mike Snook

Rorke's Drift: A New Perspective
Neil Thornton

How Can Man Die Better : The Secrets of Isandlwana Revealed
Colonel Mike Snook
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 28, 2018, 02:17:43 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 21, 2018, 06:03:17 PM
Continuing on with more Victorian era fights

Zulu Rising: The Epic Story of iSandlwana and Rorke's Drift
Knight, Ian

The great war with Russia,: The invasion of the Crimea; a personal retrospect of the battles of the Alma, Balaclava, and Inkerman, and of the winter of 1854-55,&c
Russell, William Howard

Like Wolves on the Fold: The Defence of Rorke's Drift
Mike Snook


Rorke's Drift: A New Perspective
Neil Thornton

How Can Man Die Better : The Secrets of Isandlwana Revealed
Colonel Mike Snook


Just about done with of Snook's books. Very detailed analysis and breakdown of the battles. Particularly Isandlwana.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on January 29, 2018, 12:01:51 PM
During my holiday I read:

Sapiens - thanks Malthus and Grumbler.  I did enjoy it.  I liked the point he made about the Scottish Ministers turning to mathematics rather than prayer to determine the amount to be paid in premiums to create their widows and orphans fund.

The Greatest Story Told - so far.  An interesting history of physics but the payoff of explaining why we are here was not very satisfying.   I much preferred Universe Within by Neil Turok.  He covers the same history but in a more accessible way and with some insights into where he thinks the study of Physics will go into the future.

Finished book 6 of Last Kingdom.  I am going to take a bit of a rest and then finish off the last three books.  They are enjoyable but after a while it gets predicable and because of that a bit annoying.  Utred is always going to say the wrong thing at the wrong time.  Always get away with it.  Always be the only one who knows how to fight a battle properly and single highhandedly save England.     

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 29, 2018, 01:14:43 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 29, 2018, 12:01:51 PM
During my holiday I read:

Sapiens - thanks Malthus and Grumbler.  I did enjoy it.  I liked the point he made about the Scottish Ministers turning to mathematics rather than prayer to determine the amount to be paid in premiums to create their widows and orphans fund.

The Greatest Story Told - so far.  An interesting history of physics but the payoff of explaining why we are here was not very satisfying.   I much preferred Universe Within by Neil Turok.  He covers the same history but in a more accessible way and with some insights into where he thinks the study of Physics will go into the future.

Finished book 6 of Last Kingdom.  I am going to take a bit of a rest and then finish off the last three books.  They are enjoyable but after a while it gets predicable and because of that a bit annoying.  Utred is always going to say the wrong thing at the wrong time.  Always get away with it.  Always be the only one who knows how to fight a battle properly and single highhandedly save England.   

Heh my feelings exactly about The Last Kingdom. It's a fun series written to a formula - and the formula is a good one, and they are engagingly written, and I enjoyed them a lot ... but read a bunch of 'em in a row, and the formula becomes more than a bit glaring.

By way of contrast, a series written to a formula that I found doesn't suffer from it and can be read in a row is Philip Kerr's Bernie Gunther series of German noir detective novels - also very well written and engaging. Those are a lot of (dark) fun. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 29, 2018, 03:57:00 PM
Finished the 1st volume of the Traitor Son cycle, The Red Knight. It's above-average in quality and solidly written in both the way the universe deals with magic and, especially, in terms of combat and siegecraft. If you want to read about dazzling descriptions of medieval combat with some magic thrown in for good measure, right down to every piece of equipment, it's hard to recommend something better.

The book falls down a bit in the editing department, however. I find it hard to believe the editor actually did anything. There are numerous small typos, case-use errors, and even some confusion about characters that was glaring. Specifically, one very minor character dies in one scene, but is alive in the background in another. In another scene, two characters that have always been cousins suddenly become brothers, but then are cousins again in the next chapter. In addition, there are a few examples of terminology confusion. The main baddies in the book are "boglins,"  but are referred to as "goblins" a couple of times, leading to some confusion as to whether goblins actually exist, or if the transposition was merely an accident.

Lastly, there is consistent reference to "Harndon" as the capital city of "Alba" (an obvious stand-in for an Anglo-Saxon kingdom of England), but there is a solitary reference to "London" nestled in the book.

The book is 4/5, but dragged down to 3.5 due to shoddy editing and a romance sub-plot that is pretty inexplicable.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 29, 2018, 03:59:17 PM
Now up is John Keay's The Honourable Company, A History of the English East India Company, which is incredibly exciting in the 50 pages I've read thus far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 29, 2018, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 29, 2018, 03:59:17 PM
Now up is John Keay's The Honourable Company, A History of the English East India Company, which is incredibly exciting in the 50 pages I've read thus far.

I'm really interested in this one. Please let me know how it goes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 29, 2018, 04:03:38 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 29, 2018, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 29, 2018, 03:59:17 PM
Now up is John Keay's The Honourable Company, A History of the English East India Company, which is incredibly exciting in the 50 pages I've read thus far.

I'm really interested in this one. Please let me know how it goes.

Will try to remember. Thus far, I can recommend it just based on his narrative talent. The writing in the first two chapters is superb.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on January 29, 2018, 04:14:06 PM
Stephen Fry's new book on the Greek myths is very enjoyable, even if you already know nearly all of them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 30, 2018, 04:38:49 AM
Enjoying Fukuyama's "Origins of Political Order". A number of insights that are ne (to me at any rate) including that religion was necessary to move from band level to tribal - with a larger society group, the only way to prevent people from freeloading was that their ancestor might be watching them (that's a really simplistic way of putting it).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 30, 2018, 04:58:30 AM
Quote from: Gups on January 30, 2018, 04:38:49 AM
Enjoying Fukuyama's "Origins of Political Order". A number of insights that are ne (to me at any rate) including that religion was necessary to move from band level to tribal - with a larger society group, the only way to prevent people from freeloading was that their ancestor might be watching them (that's a really simplistic way of putting it).

Why couldn't you just smack freeloaders on the head?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 30, 2018, 05:02:44 AM
Religion still works when they're not being watched.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 30, 2018, 05:11:01 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 30, 2018, 05:02:44 AM
Religion still works when they're not being watched.

:D Altar boys everywhere agree.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 30, 2018, 05:19:59 AM
Also, what do we actually know about early religions and their views on freeloading?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 30, 2018, 06:02:54 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 30, 2018, 04:58:30 AM
Quote from: Gups on January 30, 2018, 04:38:49 AM
Enjoying Fukuyama's "Origins of Political Order". A number of insights that are ne (to me at any rate) including that religion was necessary to move from band level to tribal - with a larger society group, the only way to prevent people from freeloading was that their ancestor might be watching them (that's a really simplistic way of putting it).

Why couldn't you just smack freeloaders on the head?

Don't know, Haven't been going to the footnotes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 01, 2018, 11:56:52 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 30, 2018, 04:38:49 AM
Enjoying Fukuyama's "Origins of Political Order". A number of insights that are ne (to me at any rate) including that religion was necessary to move from band level to tribal - with a larger society group, the only way to prevent people from freeloading was that their ancestor might be watching them (that's a really simplistic way of putting it).

Hmm...this may have been reinforced by recent finds like Göbekli Tepe which show that religious monumental architecture predates village life.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 02, 2018, 12:00:46 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 30, 2018, 05:19:59 AM
Also, what do we actually know about early religions and their views on freeloading?

Try this book, it's a bit dated but a good run down on an early agricultural village in Anatolia and their religious practices.

https://www.amazon.com/Goddess-Bull-Catalhoyuk-Archaeological-Civilization/dp/1598740695
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 09, 2018, 10:47:13 AM
Stephen Greenblatt "Will in the World" (2004)

You know that part of Ulysses where Stephen Dedalus uses Richard III to prove that William Shakespeare's brother had an affair with Anne Hathaway?  This book is a lot like that; but without Joyce's style.  Greenblatt does an interesting picture of Elizabethan and Jacobean society.  He uses that, Shakespeare's plays and the few records we have of William Shakespeare to construct a biography.  The results seem wildly speculative.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 14, 2018, 05:11:20 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 07, 2013, 09:53:42 AM
Finished Musashi.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/156836427X

Written in the 30s about Japan's most famous (historical) swordsman, this novel is well worth reading - for one, it's a rollicking read; but for another, it is a glimpse into a truly different set of cultural romantic expectations (for those of us who are not Japanese).

The ostensible subject is the adventures of a wandering swordsman, but very quickly it becomes obvious that the real subject is the quest for self-improvement - is this quest a noble one, or ultimately selfish? Everywhere our hero goes, disaster follows - he leaves the woman who loves him, and others who depend on him, basically to fend for themselves; his quest seems to be in equal parts a quest to perfect his murdering prowess and to perfect his skill in all of the arts - he's part serial killer and part artist, eventually able to appreciate a blood feud and flower-arranging (there is one passage in which he realizes the skill of a samurai by the message he passes on - which contains the gift of a cut flower; the cut of the stem is perfect).

The hero gradually comes to realize that perfection has to serve a social purpose, but it is not at all obvious what, exactly, that purpose is to be.

You still see these expectations in modern manga and anime, not held by pure heroic types, but not exclusive to villains either. Anti-heroes with that kind of mindset are unremarkable.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on February 26, 2018, 10:21:24 AM
Read Hank and Jim: The Fifty-Year Friendship of Henry Fonda and James Stewart
https://www.amazon.com/Hank-Jim-Fifty-Year-Friendship-Stewart-ebook/product-reviews/B06ZZWDCB9/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_paging_btm_2?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=2#RTAAQW20O4H1Y (https://www.amazon.com/Hank-Jim-Fifty-Year-Friendship-Stewart-ebook/product-reviews/B06ZZWDCB9/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_paging_btm_2?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=2#RTAAQW20O4H1Y)

I thought that it was an interesting book even though I'd known a fair amount about each man separately.  I'm not sure I learned anything of significance that was new to me, but I certainly saw known things in a new light.  I'd known that they were into model airplane building (the wooden, flying models, not plastic kits), but was unaware of how serious they were about it, or how strict their division of labor was (only Fonda could paint, and only Stewart could actually carve pieces).  The author's basic argument is that the two only really relaxed and revealed themselves around each other.  Fonda was severe on the set, demanding that others be as serious.  No laughter, no bantering, no practical jokes... except in his movies with Stewart, when the two nearly ruined takes with their frivolity or pranks.

The book gives enough detail about each man separately that the story of their friendship makes sense, but always comes back to comparison: how they differed, and how they were alike.  It is the analysis, not the description, that makes this such a good read.  Just don't expect anything too deep, and you will really enjoy this book (if you care about the subject at all).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 04, 2018, 12:19:36 PM
https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/if-literatures-complicated-men-were-on-tinder

QuoteIF LITERATURE'S "COMPLICATED MEN" WERE ON TINDER

...

Name: Odysseus
Age: 38
Occupation: King of Ithaca who is 100% NOT having a midlife crisis
About Odysseus: I'm all about that wanderlust life: it's about the journey, not the destination, you know? Especially when the destination is full of "responsibilities" like "governance," "parenthood," and "marriage to a woman who is clearly smarter than me as she evades being sold like sexual chattel for ten years while I doof around banging random witches and blinding one-eyed giants." Join me on the journey, baby.

Name:  Edward Rochester
Age: 43
Occupation:  Wealthy widower. Yep, the old ball and chain is dead. Real dead. Not currently in my attic being restrained with an actual ball and chain.
About Edward: Looking for a younger woman who will mistake my brooding looks and condescending misanthropy for tragic torment, and ideally is into employer-employee roleplay. Bonus if she likes kids but not enough that she's put off by how mean I am to my adopted daughter.

...

Name: Rodion Raskolnikov
Age: 21
Occupation: Student, Extraordinary Man who theoretically it would be totally ok if he just killed an old lady, because I mean, he's extraordinary, but you know, just theoretically please don't call that mean policeman who keeps snooping around.
About Rodion: I'm just a better-than-regular guy looking for an almost angelically good woman with a tragic story who will for no good reason dedicate herself to my redemption and is really into listening to me reciting my half-baked Philosophy 101 "theories."

...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on March 04, 2018, 12:24:33 PM
I thought Raskolnikov wanted to go to jail in order to survive the winter, at first anyway.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Tamas on March 08, 2018, 11:50:02 AM
I am looking for a book that would give a nice overview of the ancient world, during the rise of Rome. It's ok if it does so while concentrating on Rome, but information on the general state of things in Europe and the Middle East during this period would be quite welcome. Bonus points if there's an audiobook.

Any recommendations? :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 08, 2018, 12:01:04 PM
Get Grumbler drunk and have him tell you about that stuff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 08, 2018, 12:07:09 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 08, 2018, 11:50:02 AM
I am looking for a book that would give a nice overview of the ancient world, during the rise of Rome. It's ok if it does so while concentrating on Rome, but information on the general state of things in Europe and the Middle East during this period would be quite welcome. Bonus points if there's an audiobook.

Any recommendations? :)

If you find something that covers all of that, let me know--nothing springs to mind.

A good stopgap, however, is Peter Green's Alexander to Actium, which covers the entire "Hellenistic" world, including the Seleucids and Ptolemys, among others, and ends with the rise of the Empire.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on March 08, 2018, 01:58:53 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 08, 2018, 12:07:09 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 08, 2018, 11:50:02 AM
I am looking for a book that would give a nice overview of the ancient world, during the rise of Rome. It's ok if it does so while concentrating on Rome, but information on the general state of things in Europe and the Middle East during this period would be quite welcome. Bonus points if there's an audiobook.

Any recommendations? :)

If you find something that covers all of that, let me know--nothing springs to mind.

A good stopgap, however, is Peter Green's Alexander to Actium, which covers the entire "Hellenistic" world, including the Seleucids and Ptolemys, among others, and ends with the rise of the Empire.

Green's book is very good.

Ronald Syme's The Roman Revolution and the Roman Republic by Michael Crawford spring to mind.


The Cambridge Companions to the Ancient World are also excellent, more of a reference work though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Tamas on March 09, 2018, 12:50:02 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 09, 2018, 07:00:26 PM
Partial credit for The Beginnings of Rome: Italy and Rome from the Bronze Age to the Punic Wars (c. 1000-264 BC).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 15, 2018, 07:47:14 PM
Doing some nostalgic retreads

The Third World War
Team Yankee
First Clash
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 15, 2018, 07:53:21 PM
Never cared for Hackett's WWIII book. Still have a copy floating around somewhere.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 15, 2018, 09:31:16 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 29, 2018, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 29, 2018, 03:59:17 PM
Now up is John Keay's The Honourable Company, A History of the English East India Company, which is incredibly exciting in the 50 pages I've read thus far.

I'm really interested in this one. Please let me know how it goes.

High quality from start to finish, Malthus. I do wish it had a little more detail on Clive's campaigns and the overall military situation in India, but different works exist for that subject.

I have learned that very little can stop a determined Englishman, though, and you'll see numerous instances of that in the book.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 15, 2018, 09:34:39 PM
I can agree with that. TY is by far a better read and much more limited in scope, but using Hackett's book as the background. First Clash is about the same scope as TY, but more technical. A much harder read for the layman.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 16, 2018, 06:55:03 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 15, 2018, 09:31:16 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 29, 2018, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 29, 2018, 03:59:17 PM
Now up is John Keay's The Honourable Company, A History of the English East India Company, which is incredibly exciting in the 50 pages I've read thus far.

I'm really interested in this one. Please let me know how it goes.

High quality from start to finish, Malthus. I do wish it had a little more detail on Clive's campaigns and the overall military situation in India, but different works exist for that subject.

I have learned that very little can stop a determined Englishman, though, and you'll see numerous instances of that in the book.  :D

Must check that out. I enjoyed his book on China
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on March 16, 2018, 12:25:00 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 15, 2018, 09:31:16 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 29, 2018, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 29, 2018, 03:59:17 PM
Now up is John Keay's The Honourable Company, A History of the English East India Company, which is incredibly exciting in the 50 pages I've read thus far.

I'm really interested in this one. Please let me know how it goes.

High quality from start to finish, Malthus. I do wish it had a little more detail on Clive's campaigns and the overall military situation in India, but different works exist for that subject.

I have learned that very little can stop a determined Englishman, though, and you'll see numerous instances of that in the book.  :D

Well, I'm sold! It's a place and an era I don't know all that much about.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 16, 2018, 12:28:12 PM
If you finish that one and enjoy it, you might also consider moving on to the source material for much of the book (and, honestly, the source for much of the work on the East India Company): K. N. Chaudhuri's Trading World of Asia and English East India Company. Dr. Chaudhuri did a ton of original research with the Company's own documents and the book has a voluminous series of interesting statistical analyses that help explain a lot of the action in Keay's book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 20, 2018, 02:08:04 AM
Reread Foundation. Still a great read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 22, 2018, 05:47:19 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 15, 2018, 09:31:16 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 29, 2018, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 29, 2018, 03:59:17 PM
Now up is John Keay's The Honourable Company, A History of the English East India Company, which is incredibly exciting in the 50 pages I've read thus far.

I'm really interested in this one. Please let me know how it goes.

High quality from start to finish, Malthus. I do wish it had a little more detail on Clive's campaigns and the overall military situation in India, but different works exist for that subject.

I have learned that very little can stop a determined Englishman, though, and you'll see numerous instances of that in the book.  :D

I started reading this last night.  Had to force myself to put it down so I could get some sleep.  A good start  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 11, 2018, 03:10:08 PM
I read Walter Isaacson's biography of Leonardo da Vinci.  It's an entertaining read, if a little light; among other things Isaacson points out how monumentally stupid Dan Brown's description of "The Last Supper" is.  I didn't know Cesar Borgia, Leonardo da Vinci and Niccolo Machiavelli had all traveled together during Borgia's conquest of Romagna; that sounds like a setup to a Renaissance era joke.

At the end of the book Isaacson provides a description of how YOU! can be more like Leonardo (Step 1, learn to write backwards; Step 2, get a kleptomaniac rent boy, Step 3 Never finish any of your projects, Step 4 ..., Step 5 Profit!  :P ;) )  (Really you're supposed to passionately curious and the like.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 14, 2018, 12:48:02 PM
I finished Michael Lang's (and Holly George-Warren) book "The Road to Woodstock."  Lang was one of the producers, and had organized a couple rock concerts before.  His biggest had been the "1968 Miami Pop Festival" which had about 25,000 attendees (and, in a recurring theme, suffered inclement weather.)  He was obviously in way over his head with Woodstock; and had to deal with everything from a belligerent zoning board to a rapacious Abbie Hoffman.  The festival was only about half ready when the concert began; I think, in part, that's what made Woodstock a legend.  The Monterey Pop Festival was very well prepared, but no more than a great concert.  Altamont had almost no preparation whatsoever (and did turn into a legend of sorts; though not exactly a fondly remembered one.)  Woodstock had enough support and facilities to prevent it from turning into anarchy, but enough hardship to make it, in time, a pleasant memory.

(Though that doesn't explain why half a million people went to the show in the first place.)

In the end Lang starts carrying on about how Woodstock is always with him and how the "Woodstock Nation" transformed America, culminating in the second major cultural event of the post World War II era, the Barack Obama inauguration; (the book was written in 2009); and I thought "How about that, the Altamont Nation triumphed in the end."   

;)

(Of course we're not at the end.  Who knows, maybe the Zulu Nation will triumph over all.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 24, 2018, 05:26:47 PM
The People vs Democracy - a Harvard prof paints a very dim future for the survival of Liberal Democracy and then sets out to propose ways it might be saved.  But his solutions were not very convincing and so I came away persuaded that we are at the end of the period of Liberal Democracy and entering an age of populist politics or technocrats.

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674976825
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 26, 2018, 03:42:57 PM
Just started Franky Fuk's Political Decay.

Also picked up the Oprah! boxed edition of Faulkner, which might not have been the optimal choice for poolside reading.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 28, 2018, 04:06:04 AM
Started on The Wars for Asia 1911-1949, by S.C.M. Paine. I only managed a few pages in before I had to quit.

The author is fighting the good fight against the "conventional" view of the WW2 era, which apparently is a weird kindergarten/cereal box version of events. The different conflicts in Asia in the 30s and 40s weren't trivial and completely separate?? Amazing. Wait, the Russians fought a huge part of German military strength for years?? Who knew. WW2 wasn't completely decided by GIs??? Surely you jest. The author also seems really hung up on words and doesn't seem to understand that adults manage to look beyond words and see meaning. "Incident" doesn't automatically make an adult think that the event was insignificant FFS. "Warlord" doesn't make an adult think that the person has to be worse than Hitler. The author also says that the Japanese force on the mainland was called Kwantung Army or Kanto Army depending on your sympathies, but doesn't elaborate. Since the author then uses Kanto am I to assume that his sympathies are firmly on one side? Wouldn't it be nice if he could tell the reader a bit about his sympathies since they seem to be a big deal to him? The author also claims that the US drive towards (and ultimately if needed onto) the Home Islands would have been impossible if the Japanese army hadn't been heavily engaged on the mainland, but doesn't explain his reasoning. I suppose the Imperial Swimming Corps would have stopped US task forces from roaming at will? Yes resources were spent on the mainland but that doesn't translate into the Japanese having great amounts of aluminium, oil, radar, trained pilots etc etc etc if those resources were spent in the Pacific instead.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 28, 2018, 04:26:15 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 24, 2018, 05:26:47 PM
The People vs Democracy - a Harvard prof paints a very dim future for the survival of Liberal Democracy and then sets out to propose ways it might be saved.  But his solutions were not very convincing and so I came away persuaded that we are at the end of the period of Liberal Democracy and entering an age of populist politics or technocrats.

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674976825 (http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674976825)


Just picked this up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 28, 2018, 09:16:39 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 28, 2018, 04:26:15 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 24, 2018, 05:26:47 PM
The People vs Democracy - a Harvard prof paints a very dim future for the survival of Liberal Democracy and then sets out to propose ways it might be saved.  But his solutions were not very convincing and so I came away persuaded that we are at the end of the period of Liberal Democracy and entering an age of populist politics or technocrats.

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674976825 (http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674976825)


Just picked this up.

I would be interested in hearing what you think about it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 28, 2018, 11:34:55 AM
I'll tell you when I finished.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on May 29, 2018, 07:18:17 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 28, 2018, 04:06:04 AM
Started on The Wars for Asia 1911-1949, by S.C.M. Paine. I only managed a few pages in before I had to quit.

The author is fighting the good fight against the "conventional" view of the WW2 era, which apparently is a weird kindergarten/cereal box version of events. The different conflicts in Asia in the 30s and 40s weren't trivial and completely separate?? Amazing. Wait, the Russians fought a huge part of German military strength for years?? Who knew. WW2 wasn't completely decided by GIs??? Surely you jest. The author also seems really hung up on words and doesn't seem to understand that adults manage to look beyond words and see meaning. "Incident" doesn't automatically make an adult think that the event was insignificant FFS. "Warlord" doesn't make an adult think that the person has to be worse than Hitler. The author also says that the Japanese force on the mainland was called Kwantung Army or Kanto Army depending on your sympathies, but doesn't elaborate. Since the author then uses Kanto am I to assume that his sympathies are firmly on one side? Wouldn't it be nice if he could tell the reader a bit about his sympathies since they seem to be a big deal to him? The author also claims that the US drive towards (and ultimately if needed onto) the Home Islands would have been impossible if the Japanese army hadn't been heavily engaged on the mainland, but doesn't explain his reasoning. I suppose the Imperial Swimming Corps would have stopped US task forces from roaming at will? Yes resources were spent on the mainland but that doesn't translate into the Japanese having great amounts of aluminium, oil, radar, trained pilots etc etc etc if those resources were spent in the Pacific instead.

Oh my God I hate books like that. I mean just tell me your take on the event, no need to inform me what you think I think about it.

'You realize that back when this other civilization was doing very civilized things, Britain was filled with a bunch of sheep-fucking drunks you white devil?'
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 29, 2018, 08:24:32 PM
Nah, the British were the first truly civilized country, and that only happened in the 17th or 18th century.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 01, 2018, 09:08:57 AM
I recently completed a book sort of like the one The Brain was complaining about.  It was Myles Dungan's "How the Irish won the West," where the author kept going on about how the Roy Rogers west wasn't a real place.

Irish immigrants did supply a good amount of the manpower in both the army and rail construction (even the Central Pacific had Irish gang bosses for the Chinese gangs).  These two institutions, more than anything, opened the west to white settlement, which, until about fifty years ago, was viewed as "Winning" the west.  That's not a widely accepted view today; and that's not what this book is about anyway.  The railroad only has a brief section and the army isn't covered at all (the author has a different book on that.)  Instead its a series of colorful anecdotes about Irish immigrants to the western states; with a bunch of tut-tutting about how 50s era Hollywood depictions of the west was all wrong.  The result is all over the place; he starts his chapter on the Johnson County War by telling us how it was nothing like the dime store novels, and follows it up with a narration of the Johnson County War that would have done a dime store novel proud.  He carries on about how hard life was for prostitutes in the old west; and then tells tales about the lives of the most notorious, and successful, madams.

I did learn that, at the time of his speaking engagement in the United States, Oscar Wilde was famous for being famous; not for anything he had written.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 02, 2018, 02:30:02 PM
I read "Dear Hippie... We Met at Woodstock" by Daniel Carlson.  Carlson had been a deputy sheriff in Dutchess County; and had been called into Bethel, New York (in neighboring Sullivan County) for Woodstock.  (The town of Woodstock, NY wasn't actually the scene of the Woodstock Music Festival; in fact it's about 60 miles away.)  The book is short; it comes across as hastily written and in need of an editor.  (Carlson, in one passage, refers to Inspector Javert as "A character from the musical Les Miserables.")  Still it does provide a different point of view on Woodstock than the Michael Lang book I recently read. I learned that there were few, if any, arrests for public nudity or drugs because the police had no way to get an arrested person out of the festival.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on June 04, 2018, 01:43:16 PM
RIP John Julius Norwich   :cry:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 04, 2018, 01:52:18 PM
:(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 06, 2018, 08:27:13 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on June 01, 2018, 09:08:57 AM
he starts his chapter on the Johnson County War by telling us how it was nothing like the dime store novels

IIRC it was more like an auteur movie gone millions over budget.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2018, 11:00:50 PM
Quote from: Maladict on June 04, 2018, 01:43:16 PM
RIP John Julius Norwich   :cry:

Oh man I was just listening to a Byzantium podcast today. RIP dude you were one of the big reasons I became interested in the Medieval East.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 07, 2018, 12:17:25 PM
I finished "Foucault's Pendulum", even in translation that required a lot of look-ups.  It's easy enough today, but when it was first published it must have been a bit like reading Dune without the glossary.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 07, 2018, 12:24:51 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on June 07, 2018, 12:17:25 PM
I finished "Foucault's Pendulum", even in translation that required a lot of look-ups.  It's easy enough today, but when it was first published it must have been a bit like reading Dune without the glossary.

Still my favourite book
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on June 07, 2018, 12:28:50 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on June 07, 2018, 12:17:25 PM
I finished "Foucault's Pendulum", even in translation that required a lot of look-ups.  It's easy enough today, but when it was first published it must have been a bit like reading Dune without the glossary.

I found that i didn't need to understand all of the allusions to enjoy the book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 13, 2018, 01:50:27 PM
I was listening to a series of online lectures about ancient Greece which covered the Iliad, among other things.  One of the points that the lecturer made, which I found interesting, is that Achilles is the hero that never cut the apron strings.  When things go bad he can (and does) go cry to mom.

Another was that the conflict arises over two distinct ideas of power.  Achilles is the mightiest warrior, even without his magical talking horses and divine armor he's still the strongest and the toughest.  Agamemnon is the richest, and has brought the most number of ships.

One point that I thought was kind of funny is; how does everyone know Achilles' fate?  He knows it, presumably Thetis had told him; but how do his talking horses know it?  And how does Hector know it (and in such detail)?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 13, 2018, 02:04:15 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 13, 2018, 01:50:27 PM
I was listening to a series of online lectures about ancient Greece which covered the Iliad, among other things.  One of the points that the lecturer made, which I found interesting, is that Achilles is the hero that never cut the apron strings.  When things go bad he can (and does) go cry to mom.

Another was that the conflict arises over two distinct ideas of power.  Achilles is the mightiest warrior, even without his magical talking horses and divine armor he's still the strongest and the toughest.  Agamemnon is the richest, and has brought the most number of ships.

One point that I thought was kind of funny is; how does everyone know Achilles' fate?  He knows it, presumably Thetis had told him; but how do his talking horses know it?  And how does Hector know it (and in such detail)?

One of the more amusing lectures I remember from my undergraduate days was on the anthropology of warfare in the Iliad.

The basic thesis was this: the stories were written about a 'civilized' war, but they reflect war as practiced by 'uncivilized' peoples.

The Iliad was written about a war that allegedly happened during the latter part of the Mycenaean civilization; however, it was transmitted orally for centuries during the Greek "dark ages", only being written down long after, when those dark ages were over. The Mycenaean civilization was a lot more 'civilized' in its approach to war, with something approaching standing armies (including hundreds of chariots - there's a surviving script in "Linear B" about a king's storage of spare chariot-wheels).

In the Iliad, though, although chariots are mentioned, no-one uses them in the way they would have been used during the Mycenaean period - they just drive them to the battle, hop off, and fight on foot.

Moreover, those fights resemble battles between 'uncivilized' peoples more than state on state battles - there is nothing like a shield wall, individual champions pick each other out of the press, etc. 

Also, some speculation that the "wooden horse" that ends the siege may be a garbled reference to some sort of siege-machine, like a siege tower or a housing for a battering-ram.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 13, 2018, 03:25:29 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 13, 2018, 02:04:15 PM
One of the more amusing lectures I remember from my undergraduate days was on the anthropology of warfare in the Iliad.

The basic thesis was this: the stories were written about a 'civilized' war, but they reflect war as practiced by 'uncivilized' peoples.

The Iliad was written about a war that allegedly happened during the latter part of the Mycenaean civilization; however, it was transmitted orally for centuries during the Greek "dark ages", only being written down long after, when those dark ages were over. The Mycenaean civilization was a lot more 'civilized' in its approach to war, with something approaching standing armies (including hundreds of chariots - there's a surviving script in "Linear B" about a king's storage of spare chariot-wheels).

In the Iliad, though, although chariots are mentioned, no-one uses them in the way they would have been used during the Mycenaean period - they just drive them to the battle, hop off, and fight on foot.

Moreover, those fights resemble battles between 'uncivilized' peoples more than state on state battles - there is nothing like a shield wall, individual champions pick each other out of the press, etc. 

Also, some speculation that the "wooden horse" that ends the siege may be a garbled reference to some sort of siege-machine, like a siege tower or a housing for a battering-ram.

I've heard that about the wooden horse; I've also heard that it might be a metaphor for an earthquake since both horses and earthquakes are sacred to Poseidon.  (IIRC there's some archaeological evidence which suggests that at least one of the Troys was destroyed by an earthquake.)

It is interesting that the people carrying on the story kept the chariots in the story, even though it's obvious that, by the time the story achieved its final form, they had no idea how a chariot was used.  Another thing I've heard about the Iliad and Odyssey in regards to their lower level of sophistication as compared to the Mycenaean period is that the queens in the books are usually weaving or spinning cloth; something that the queens of the Mycenaean period almost certainly never did.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on July 13, 2018, 04:07:28 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 24, 2018, 05:26:47 PM
The People vs Democracy - a Harvard prof paints a very dim future for the survival of Liberal Democracy and then sets out to propose ways it might be saved.  But his solutions were not very convincing and so I came away persuaded that we are at the end of the period of Liberal Democracy and entering an age of populist politics or technocrats.

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674976825

I'm interested in hearing a bit more on this - what does Yascha Mounk suggest, and why is it unconvincing - so I started new thread: http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,15539.0.html

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on July 13, 2018, 05:00:22 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 13, 2018, 01:50:27 PM

One point that I thought was kind of funny is; how does everyone know Achilles' fate?  He knows it, presumably Thetis had told him; but how do his talking horses know it?  And how does Hector know it (and in such detail)?

Probably because the gods know and the gossiping maniacs can't help themselves.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 17, 2018, 12:25:19 PM
Just finished Richard Ayoade's book The Grip of Film. Entertaining, but it was more focused on 80s action movies than I had realized. It's probably best if you have seen at least some of those (I have).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 30, 2018, 07:35:24 AM
I was picking up a history magazine about the Cold War the other day at the book store, and they also had a new Cold War book that came out in 2017: The Cold War: A World History by Odd Arne Westad

https://www.amazon.com/Cold-War-World-History/dp/0465054935

Two chapters in, liking it so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 31, 2018, 11:16:30 AM
Classics of literature survive, in part, because they continue to speak to us even though they come from a different time or place.  In turn each era, to some degree, recreates the work appropriate to their own age (for example Basil Rathbone's Sherlock Holmes vs Robert Downey Jr.'s)  This headline from the BBC struck me as funny:

Heathcliff and Literature's Greatest Love Story are Toxic. (http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20180725-heathcliff-and-literatures-greatest-love-story-are-toxic)

The Byronic hero, condemned by his toxic masculinity.   :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 10, 2018, 05:31:37 PM
I recently finished the entire Expanse series, which I started reading when the show got canceled, then re-upped. It has its ups and downs, and the weakness is definitely in characterization throughout the series, but the plot is strong and I'm really, really eager to get the 8th book this December.

Unrelated: does anyone in the Languish brain trust have a recommendation for reading on Charlemagne or the early Medieval period?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 10, 2018, 08:04:51 PM
Perhaps a bit dated now, but I enjoyed this

https://www.amazon.ca/Charlemagne-Father-Continent-Alessandro-Barbero/dp/0520239431/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1533949364&sr=8-2&keywords=charlemagne
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 10, 2018, 10:41:51 PM
Dated and from 2004? I think that might do the trick. I'm not sure how much groundbreaking work is being done in that realm.  :P

Thanks!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 11, 2018, 08:33:34 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 10, 2018, 10:41:51 PM
Dated and from 2004? I think that might do the trick. I'm not sure how much groundbreaking work is being done in that realm.  :P

Thanks!

I see the world through the perspective of my sons' POV  :D

I hope you enjoy it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 11, 2018, 01:55:04 PM
Finished a book on the Venetian Empire City of Fortune.  Disappointing.  The book says nothing about government structure of Venice and very little on trade practices.  Mostly about military actions in the Eastern Mediterranean.  Oddly didn't even mention the Italian Wars.  It begins with Sack of Constantinople an ends in early 16th century with the collapse of the Mediterranean spice trade and the rise of the Ottoman empire.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 01, 2018, 04:46:00 PM
Had to guit another book. Napoleonic Warfare: The Operational Art of the Great Campaigns, by Kuehn. The author spends a lot of time on various definitions of operational level and what parts are required for an operational level (which is a warning sign, people talking a lot about definitions are often more interested in a system than in understanding, and I guess also often feel out of their depth on the issue but writing about definitions is something everyone can do). He quotes other historians for no apparent reason (huge warning sign). In many ways the text felt like student work. What finally made me close the book was the following. "Austrian regular infantry was composed primarily of the many storied imperial regiments known to history as the Kaiserliche (German for imperial)." What the hell dude.

And when I checked, lo and behold the author is a professor at the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College. I have to remember to check these things before clicking buy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 02, 2018, 04:28:08 AM
Instead I started on Towards the Flame: Empire, War and the End of Tsarist Russia, by Lieven. I just finished his Russia Against Napoleon, which I enjoyed. I may not agree with everything he writes but he generally seems to know his stuff and writes well. Towards the Flame seems to be good too, one little thing struck me as odd though so far. When talking about Muscovy/Russia's imperial achievement he says "No other great empire was ever created in such northern latitudes...". Er... Moscow isn't exactly up north, it's on the same latitude as such empire-building bumblers as the UK. And if he means that it's somehow harder for Europeans to build empires in the temperate zone than in say the tropics then he doesn't say why. And I assume he means that the Mongol empire wasn't great or didn't include enough of Northern Siberia, which is fair enough. Edit: And obviously that Canada (as part of the Empire) doesn't count, also fair enough.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 25, 2018, 02:41:57 PM
Should be here today
(https://i.imgur.com/Qv1qlte.gif)


The Forgotten Battle of the Kursk Salient: 7th Guards Army's Stand Against Army Detachment Kempf' Hardcover – June 13, 2018
by Valeriy Zamulin (Author), Stuart Britton (Editor)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2018, 02:58:17 PM
On order:

Mothers of Kursk: Interviews with Parents of Troops at The Greatest Tank Battle in History

Kursk Stomach: Feldwebel Kurz's Diary of Daily Meals During the Epic Eastern Front Battle

Sidelined Soldiers: In Depth Look at the Units Which Really Wanted to Participate in Kursk but Didn't Quite Make it
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 25, 2018, 03:05:34 PM
You people are weird.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: frunk on September 25, 2018, 03:18:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2018, 02:58:17 PM
On order:

Mothers of Kursk: Interviews with Parents of Troops at The Greatest Tank Battle in History

Kursk Stomach: Feldwebel Kurz's Diary of Daily Meals During the Epic Eastern Front Battle

Sidelined Soldiers: In Depth Look at the Units Which Really Wanted to Participate in Kursk but Didn't Quite Make it

The Curse Can of Kursk: Unsanitary Supplies and their effect on Combat Performance

The Kursk of Darkness: How an Ivory Trader could have made a fortune in WW II
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 25, 2018, 03:47:01 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 25, 2018, 03:05:34 PM
You people are weird.

They are
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 25, 2018, 04:30:08 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 10, 2018, 05:31:37 PM
I recently finished the entire Expanse series, which I started reading when the show got canceled, then re-upped. It has its ups and downs, and the weakness is definitely in characterization throughout the series, but the plot is strong and I'm really, really eager to get the 8th book this December.

Unrelated: does anyone in the Languish brain trust have a recommendation for reading on Charlemagne or the early Medieval period?

Many options - one of the ones I read most recently is Chris Wickham's Inheritance of Rome: Illuminating the Dark Ages

One of the events he recounts is something I always thought would be a great movie premise.

The background was the great crisis of the 9th century in France. In 856-57, Danish pirates sacked Paris, Orleans and other cities and were ravaging virtually unchecked up and down the Seine and Loire. Late in 858, Charles the Bald laid siege to the Danes but then then broke camp, presumably because his nobles revolted and induced Louis the German to invade.

What happened next is narrated in the Annals of St. Bertin:

QuoteThe Danes ravaged the places beyond the Scheldt. Some of the common people living between the Seine and the Loire formed a sworn association amongst themselves, and fought bravely against the Danes on the Seine. But because their association had been made without due consideration, they were easily slain by our more powerful people.

Basically the peasants living in the area took it upon themselves to defend their lands and managed to push back the Danes where their "betters" had failed  In so doing, they were acting in accordance with longstanding Frankish tradition in which free peasants had the right (and sometimes the obligation) to take up arms, a right still in force during the reign of Charlemagne.  But times had changed - about 20 years earlier Bertin narrates an assembly of Emperor and bishops convened to "set out clearly what was the proper function of each social order".   By 860 the old Carolingian free peasantry was being pushed permanently out of the public sphere. The consequence for those brave peasants was dire: for their crime of defending the country that the aristocrats placed at risk, they were killed for their impertinence.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 25, 2018, 05:11:17 PM
Thanks, Minsky. I'll add it to the pile.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 25, 2018, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 25, 2018, 04:30:08 PMChris Wickham's Inheritance of Rome: Illuminating the Dark Ages

Excellent book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 26, 2018, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2018, 02:58:17 PM
On order:

Mothers of Kursk: Interviews with Parents of Troops at The Greatest Tank Battle in History

Kursk Stomach: Feldwebel Kurz's Diary of Daily Meals During the Epic Eastern Front Battle

Sidelined Soldiers: In Depth Look at the Units Which Really Wanted to Participate in Kursk but Didn't Quite Make it

Got you covered Admiral
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12313758_10207804324857279_6678030092391843687_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&oh=4a93112698d24a434a64ff68c73b3ac8&oe=5C1930AE)

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12311188_10207804322617223_4183068140069865749_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&oh=317b20bd0e9d4d9ec6e64caf220225ed&oe=5C2AF534)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 26, 2018, 02:05:10 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 02, 2018, 04:28:08 AM
Instead I started on Towards the Flame: Empire, War and the End of Tsarist Russia, by Lieven. I just finished his Russia Against Napoleon, which I enjoyed. I may not agree with everything he writes but he generally seems to know his stuff and writes well. Towards the Flame seems to be good too, one little thing struck me as odd though so far. When talking about Muscovy/Russia's imperial achievement he says "No other great empire was ever created in such northern latitudes...". Er... Moscow isn't exactly up north, it's on the same latitude as such empire-building bumblers as the UK. And if he means that it's somehow harder for Europeans to build empires in the temperate zone than in say the tropics then he doesn't say why. And I assume he means that the Mongol empire wasn't great or didn't include enough of Northern Siberia, which is fair enough. Edit: And obviously that Canada (as part of the Empire) doesn't count, also fair enough.

I think it was mainly a diss at Gustavus Adolphus.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 26, 2018, 10:47:41 AM
I've been reading a book of Robert Browning's poetry.  Reading up on "How They Brought the Good News from Ghent to Aix" I came across this wax cylinder where Browning (almost) recites the poem. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYot5-WuAjE)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 26, 2018, 12:59:06 PM
I'm currently reading Jeffrey Burton Russell's books on the devil. I've finished Satan (about early Christianity) and Lucifer (about the Middle Ages) and started on Mephistopheles (the modern world). He also has The Devil (about olden times) but I decided to start with early Christianity. Pretty interesting stuff, especially since I haven't read much about religious history. The author is very upfront with the fact that he believes in the devil (which is great that he is), and he really seems to have been thinking long and hard on the problem of evil. Of course he hasn't really thought deeply enough to my mind (since he believes in Cave Santa), but he's refreshingly sincere and open (and very far from retarded, and even less dogmatic). He seems to have a genuine passion for the subject, and I really enjoy reading his books.

One thing that struck me though is that, for all his decades of thinking about suffering and evil, he doesn't appear to have considered at all the functions they have. From a biological/evolutionary perspective they exist for a reason (and AFAIK the author isn't a Creationist). Odd blind spot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on October 26, 2018, 01:56:10 PM
Finished off the The Distant Mirror by Barbra Tuchman.  She's not the best historical, but has wonderful prose and vivid characterization.  I read it as a break drudgery of reading the Canturbury tales.  Order two books off Ebay, one is a history of Cole County published in 1889 and the other is a history of Jefferson City published 1938.  That's about the best I can do with local history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 26, 2018, 01:59:11 PM
That leaves 80 years uncovered. Guess you're stuck with newspaper archives.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 27, 2018, 06:09:03 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 10, 2018, 10:41:51 PM
Dated and from 2004? I think that might do the trick. I'm not sure how much groundbreaking work is being done in that realm.  :P

Thanks!

Christopher Lee wrote the definitive work on Charlemagne in 2010

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne:_By_the_Sword_and_the_Cross
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on November 12, 2018, 08:44:12 PM
What's your local library like in terms of books and other facilities?

I ask because I went in the library of my childhood hometown last week, I knew it was being re-arranged but it must now have half the number of books to previously.

Now it's a large open space, with a few low rows of book shelving widely spread apart with large areas designated as meeting places, child play areas, computers, automated tills etc.

I guess it's progress, but it was purpose built library from the 1960s and when I was a child it was filled form floor to ceiling, well 6ft, with closely arranged regimented shelving. There could have been 10 times* as many books then as now, if I had to guess.  :(


* unreliable childhood memory may have distorted this number?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 13, 2018, 02:17:27 AM
I've never been to the library in Vienna, mostly because their opening hours interfere with my work schedule (I'd have about half an hour in the evening, or I'd have to rush through on a Saturday). :(

I loved browsing libraries as a kid and young adult. My main gripe was a lack of English language books. My hometown library in Germany won federal prizes and was well stocked and one of the first to jump on the multimedia train so they stocked CDs, DVDs, and computer games. And friends and I occasionally skipped Friday class to play board games there. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 13, 2018, 10:51:30 AM
I grew up 150 yds from Stockholm Public Library. They had a lot of books and I read a lot of them. I haven't been in years, I'm sure they have more non-book stuff now than in the olden days but AFAIK they still have a lot of books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 21, 2018, 03:05:48 PM
Currently re-reading HHhH by Laurent Binet (Trans. Sam Taylor), one of my favorite French authors.

Brilliant recounting of the life and death of top Nazi Heydrich, and the men who killed him; and of the process of writing and nature of history itself.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on December 03, 2018, 05:08:06 PM
Can anyone recommend a policy-/action-centric study of either the Carter or Reagan Presidencies? I'm far more interested in the history of their actions in office rather than the hagiographies and politically-tribal works that typically come out about Presidents.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 03, 2018, 05:11:39 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 30, 2018, 07:35:24 AM
I was picking up a history magazine about the Cold War the other day at the book store, and they also had a new Cold War book that came out in 2017: The Cold War: A World History by Odd Arne Westad

https://www.amazon.com/Cold-War-World-History/dp/0465054935

Two chapters in, liking it so far.

Finished the book. At over 600 pages it's mostly chronicling events around the world. Where other histories focus on Europe/USSR/China he covers events in Asia, Middle East, Africa, and Latin America in reasonable detail. However, with the volume of events, the book is IMHO not much more than a chronicle, with not much analysis. Very readable, though, and IMHO a starting point to pick topics for more detailed reading.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on December 04, 2018, 12:41:05 AM
I'm now reading a book on Judaism in Western Europe between 1000-1500.  I'm doing this weird medieval thing where I alternate between history books on the Middle Ages and contemporary medieval literature. For instance I read a book about Venice and then go onto read the Canterbury tales.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on December 04, 2018, 01:43:39 AM
Freaky
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 04, 2018, 01:52:37 AM
Do you read them in Chaucerian English?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on December 04, 2018, 03:48:10 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 04, 2018, 01:52:37 AM
Do you read them in Chaucerian English?


No, I tried that.  Chauncer was enough of a chore as it was, I didn't want to make it even longer.  Even translated into modern English it mostly rhymes.  For some reason I find the rhyming couplets trite and kind of annoying.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 04, 2018, 04:13:59 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 04, 2018, 03:48:10 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 04, 2018, 01:52:37 AM
Do you read them in Chaucerian English?


No, I tried that.  Chauncer was enough of a chore as it was, I didn't want to make it even longer.  Even translated into modern English it mostly rhymes.  For some reason I find the rhyming couplets trite and kind of annoying.

Don't read the original Song of the Nibelungs, then. Used to be able to read it quite well, but it's been many years since I flxed that Medieval German muscle (and yes, it's rhyming couplets). :P

I'm struggling with original Chaucer. Shakespeare is mostly fine, but Chaucer is a bit too far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on January 02, 2019, 10:15:09 PM
On learned folks,

Is there a book in English covering The Black Army of Hungary?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 03, 2019, 10:25:11 AM
I finished Katharine Anne Porter's "Ship of Fools."  It's the story of a boat sailing from Mexico to Germany in the 1930s.  It's content, I think, is best summarized by Tom Lehrer:

All the rich folk hate the poor folk
And all the poor folk hate the rich folk
All of my folk hate all of your folk
It's an old established rule

All the Protestants hate the Catholics
And all the Catholics hate the Protestants
All the Hindus hate the Muslims
And everyone hates the Jews


;)

It's supposed to be a parable where the boat stands for civilization and the passengers represent their nations in the era when the world is sliding towards the Second World War.  Porter made a trip like this, and based a number of characters on the ship on her traveling companions.  The book has its moments but some of it drags and the parable never seems to take off.  It might have worked better as a cycle of short stories.  While this is Porter's best known work (or at least the one that was made into a movie) her short stories are usually much better.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 08, 2019, 05:33:01 PM
I read Sherwood Anderson's "Winesburg Ohio," and learned that everyone from Ohio is a degenerate low life.   :(

;)

The book is a series of short stories all set in a small town.  At first they seem like rambling small town gossip, where nothing much seems to happen.  In time various themes start to emerge and an overarching narrative forms.  I thought it was quite clever.  At the time of its publication critics hailed Anderson as an American Realist and unfortunately he spent the rest of his life trying to be Theodore Dreiser.  Today the book is valued for its depiction of pre-industrial small town America, as well as its style (which actually wasn't realist at all.  The book does decry consumer capitalism, but more as a nostalgic look backwards rather than an eyes-in-the-gutter social critique.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on January 08, 2019, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 03, 2019, 10:25:11 AM
I finished Katharine Anne Porter's "Ship of Fools."  It's the story of a boat sailing from Mexico to Germany in the 1930s.  It's content, I think, is best summarized by Tom Lehrer:

All the rich folk hate the poor folk
And all the poor folk hate the rich folk
All of my folk hate all of your folk
It's an old established rule

All the Protestants hate the Catholics
And all the Catholics hate the Protestants
All the Hindus hate the Muslims
And everyone hates the Jews


;)

It's supposed to be a parable where the boat stands for civilization and the passengers represent their nations in the era when the world is sliding towards the Second World War.  Porter made a trip like this, and based a number of characters on the ship on her traveling companions.  The book has its moments but some of it drags and the parable never seems to take off.  It might have worked better as a cycle of short stories.  While this is Porter's best known work (or at least the one that was made into a movie) her short stories are usually much better.

I liked the movie
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 16, 2019, 10:38:05 AM
I was reading Francis Bacon's "Essays: Civil and Moral" and came across a reference to "Antimasques."  A masque was a type of courtly entertainment sort of like opera.  Ben Johnson introduced "Antimasques" between acts, which were a sort of comic or grotesque dance.  The idea was that, since masques were frequently performed by members of the court; antimasques (which were only performed by actors) would make the masques (and their performers) look dignified by comparison.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Caliga on January 23, 2019, 04:41:47 PM
I've been reading Mungo Park's travel journals.  Really interesting stuff.

I didn't know this before, but after he reached the Niger, he travelled most of the way back to the Senegal coast in a slave caravan, and he spent a lot of time talking about the slaves.  Most of the slaves in the caravan had become slaves either due to literal debts or because they were starving to death and exchanged their freedom for food.  I had thought most of the African slaves transported via the Middle Passage were essentially POWs captured during African tribal conflicts.

Also, they were terrified of being sold to white men because they believed all white men to be cannibals and assumed they would be eaten.  When Mungo Park told them that they would most likely end up performing agricultural labor, they laughed at him because they believed farming was something which simply didn't happen "on the other side of the salt river", where white men lived.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 24, 2019, 11:12:18 AM
I finished Como Agua Para Chocolate by Laura Esquivel.  If there was such a thing as a magical realism telenovela, this would be it.  (Actually magical realism is no less improbable than the plots of many telenovelas.)  The movie follows the book pretty closely; Esquivel is a screenwriter so that probably influences how she wrote.  I've heard the opposite about F. Scott Fitzgerald's Hollywood career; he wrote screenplays as if they were novels - which is why almost none of his scripts were turned into movies.

Has anyone had Chiles en Nogada (https://mexicanfoodjournal.com/chiles-en-nogada/)?  That sounds positively baroque, even by the standards of Mexican cooking.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 29, 2019, 01:30:17 PM
Another from "Essays: Civil and Moral"; Bacon references "Pine-apple-trees" in his essay on gardening.  He means pine trees; in the Elizabethan/Jacobean era pine cones were known as pine-apples.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on January 29, 2019, 03:34:35 PM
I just finished reading "Washington's Immortals" by Patrick K. O'Donnell. It's about an elite unit in Washington's army during the revolution. A regiment formed from soldiers from Maryland mainly but also Delaware, formed well before the war for local defense.

This unit probably saved the revolution from failure such as the battle in Manhattan in the early war. The American army was out flanked and cut off by the British, being boxed in from escape  by rivers and ocean. The regiment was called on to hold and delay the British. The units held and even attacked against heavy odds, delaying the British until too dark for the Brits to continue the attack. That gave the army the time it needed to make a near miraculous escape in small boats overnight.

The unit would make many other strong contributions, being often called upon when things were toughest.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 29, 2019, 04:14:20 PM
New York City was indefensible against a superior foe on land and sea and it was very dangerous for Washington to try, although politically he was under pressure from the Congress.  Washington knew the danger because right after the fall of Long Island, he speculated that Howe would go up the Hudson and capture the Kings Bridge in what is now the South Bronx, thus cutting off the entire Continental Army.   Howe didn't do that right away and Washington was able to retreat his army step-by-step, relying on rearguard heroics like the Marylanders.

Howe was no fool and could read a map - later in that campaign he did try to cut off Washington in Westchester and succeeded in part. In the earlier part of the campaign, however, he put as much effort into opening negotiations as fighting.  It appears that one of the reasons Washington was able to evacuate the city is that Howe was restraining himself in the hope of advancing peace talks.  That doesn't take away from the bravery of the Marylanders but it gives some context.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on January 29, 2019, 08:19:34 PM
Minsky, good info. Yeah, I think Howe was more sympathetic to the rebel cause, at least at first. At Manhattan, as we say, Howe could have likely ended the war by either military defeat of Washington or maybe what he wanted more was the surrender of the trapped army to try and reduce revolution fervor.   

There was indeed a lot of fighting along the Hudson river, with victories and defeats by each side. The British defeat at Saratoga in 1777 prevented the British from splitting the colonies. In the war's later years, General Washington camped outside New York with General Clinton fortified inside, neither side having the strength to attack the other. Much of the fighting would take place down south in those years.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 22, 2019, 10:17:58 AM
I thought some of our lawyers might appreciate Ovid's advice on where to pick up chicks:

And the law-courts (who'd believe it?) they suit love:
a flame is often found in the noisy courts:
where the Appian waters pulse into the air,
from under Venus's temple, made of marble,
there the lawyer's often caught by love,
and he who guides others, fails to guide himself:
in that place of eloquence often his words desert him,
and a new case starts, his own cause is the brief.
There Venus, from her neighbouring temples, laughs:
he, who was once the counsel, now wants to be the client.


Art of Love, Book I, Part III
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2019, 03:43:55 PM
Seems to me he's saying practicing law makes you horny, not that you can pull in a court room.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 22, 2019, 04:37:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2019, 03:43:55 PM
Seems to me he's saying practicing law makes you horny, not that you can pull in a court room.

In this part of the book (https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Latin/ArtofLoveBkI.php#anchor_Toc521049259) he is describing where you can meet the girl; though he does add in colorful commentary as he goes along.

Right before this passage he advises to go to shrines and temples including:

And don't forget the shrine of Adonis, Venus wept for,
and the sacred Sabbath rites of the Syrian Jews.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on March 01, 2019, 02:15:56 PM
I saw this on BBC.com and thought it was interesting:

What the Earliest Fragments of English Reveal (http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20190118-how-migration-formed-the-english-language)

A year or so ago I read The Complete Old English Poems (The Middle Ages Series) (https://www.amazon.com/Complete-English-Poems-Middle-Ages/dp/0812248473).  The part I thought was most interesting was the poetic translation of Genesis and Exodus; which was a reinterpretation of the books from the standpoint of a sea-faring warrior culture.  In Exodus, for instance, the Israelites handily trounce the Egyptians, whatever miraculous aid occurred is just mentioned in passing.  The Genesis account may form the basis of Paradise Lost; at least the manuscript was owned by a friend of Milton and the two stories are remarkably similar.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 02, 2019, 02:55:16 PM
I've been looking for an English language book about the Warring States period of Japan for a while. A lot of the ones I found were either very short or very old. Now I've picked up this one on Kindle, a book about Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomo Hideyoshi, and Tokugawa Ieyasu. So far it's good: https://www.amazon.com/Sengoku-Jidai-Nobunaga-Hideyoshi-Ieyasu-ebook/dp/B078X3MVBL
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on April 02, 2019, 03:01:42 PM
Syt, you might also consider this one:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41dPQFmEM-L._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Provides more context than just the immediate circumstances of the Three Unifiers. If you get even more curious, it has a "...to 1334" and a post-1615 book in the series as well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 02, 2019, 03:05:49 PM
Thanks, but not available as Kindle, it seems, and decent editions seem to go for silly prices.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 02, 2019, 03:09:56 PM
I got the two Sansom books to 1615. Nice enough but old.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on April 02, 2019, 03:18:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 02, 2019, 03:05:49 PM
Thanks, but not available as Kindle, it seems, and decent editions seem to go for silly prices.

:hmm: The Kindle hold-up is understandable, but used editions go for ~$8-10. I suppose the shipping might eat into that, though.

That makes me wonder: what are Austria/Vienna's libraries like?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 02, 2019, 03:21:35 PM
I've never been to one.  :blush:

Cheapest option I see on German Amazon shop seems to be €30 for one volume, others being more expensive.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 02, 2019, 03:23:22 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 02, 2019, 03:09:56 PM
I got the two Sansom books to 1615. Nice enough but old.

I tend to be a bit wary of history books that are 30+ years old, because research and analysis will likely have advanced notably since then. There's exceptions, of course.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on April 02, 2019, 03:25:14 PM
Ditto, but I think it depends on the subject matter. I am less leery of, say, medieval Japanese history from 30 years ago than I would be of, for example, WWII East Front from 30 years ago. Hurrah for the Herrenvolk! was all the rage, but these days...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on April 02, 2019, 03:25:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 02, 2019, 03:21:35 PM
I've never been to one.  :blush:

:cry:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 02, 2019, 03:28:43 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 02, 2019, 03:25:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 02, 2019, 03:21:35 PM
I've never been to one.  :blush:

:cry:

I like owning books. :blush:

I just checked their online catalogue, no George Sansom books. I didn't check university libraries, though. :P ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on April 02, 2019, 04:20:11 PM
I'm the same in regards to owning books--my shelves keep having to grow to accommodate the new tomes--but libraries help me find the, er, less affordable histories. University library loan is the best.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on April 11, 2019, 01:15:40 PM
I finished the museum guide to the Salvador Dalí Museum (the one in Saint Petersburg, FL.)  It was surprisingly in depth for a museum guide.

Surrealism is the one art movement that came out of the First World War that had legs1..  It lasted for nearly two decades and generated international attention, even becoming an influence on Hollywood, everything from Hitchcock to Looney Tunes.  Dalí is almost synonymous with Surrealism, so I was amused to find out that he had been thrown out of the movement by André Breton.

I learned that Dalí's earliest works were influenced by Calatan Nationalism; which was all the rage when he was young.  Some things never go away.

Sometimes it's hard to know how much of Dalí's persona was a put on.  In the thirties he claimed to have sexual fantasies about Hitler in which Hitler was a woman.  I doubt that was any more than an attempt to get attention; but I thought it would be of interest to Languish.

I also learned that the Surrealist Movement was associated with Communism.  Due to Vigo, I had assumed that it was associated with Anarchism :punk:.

1.)  Other than Socialist Realism; but that's another story, comrades.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 18, 2019, 05:40:22 PM
I've started reading The Roman Army: A Social & Institutional History, by P. Southern. On page two I came across this:

QuoteThe new Republican political system that replaced the rule of the kings was carefully thought out, owing nothing to its regal antecedents.

My understanding from other sources is that the changes made in the transition to republic were in fact very small (though not unimportant), the Romans essentially just putting a time limit on the office of king and splitting it in two. Which is it? I hate it when I read weird stuff in the beginning of a book, if I feel that the author cannot be trusted factwise then I find it hard to muster the energy to read the rest of the book. Please tell me what I've missed here, I'd love to be able to trust the book on basic stuff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on April 18, 2019, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 18, 2019, 05:40:22 PM
I've started reading The Roman Army: A Social & Institutional History, by P. Southern. On page two I came across this:

QuoteThe new Republican political system that replaced the rule of the kings was carefully thought out, owing nothing to its regal antecedents.

My understanding from other sources is that the changes made in the transition to republic were in fact very small (though not unimportant), the Romans essentially just putting a time limit on the office of king and splitting it in two. Which is it? I hate it when I read weird stuff in the beginning of a book, if I feel that the author cannot be trusted factwise then I find it hard to muster the energy to read the rest of the book. Please tell me what I've missed here, I'd love to be able to trust the book on basic stuff.

Pat Southern takes a position in an ongoing historical debate by making it as if there was nothing uncertain about it. Short story: later Romans (our main sources for that event) portrayed their Republican institutions as having changed overnight to accommodate new conceptions of freedom. Historians disagree whether it was a matter of fact, or whether it was later development ascribed to an earlier beginning than historically, to reinforce an ideological point. It would have been better to be a little more circumspect.

My classicist colleague recommends: The Limits of Empire: The Roman Army in the East (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1992)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 18, 2019, 08:57:20 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on April 18, 2019, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 18, 2019, 05:40:22 PM
I've started reading The Roman Army: A Social & Institutional History, by P. Southern. On page two I came across this:

QuoteThe new Republican political system that replaced the rule of the kings was carefully thought out, owing nothing to its regal antecedents.

My understanding from other sources is that the changes made in the transition to republic were in fact very small (though not unimportant), the Romans essentially just putting a time limit on the office of king and splitting it in two. Which is it? I hate it when I read weird stuff in the beginning of a book, if I feel that the author cannot be trusted factwise then I find it hard to muster the energy to read the rest of the book. Please tell me what I've missed here, I'd love to be able to trust the book on basic stuff.

Pat Southern takes a position in an ongoing historical debate by making it as if there was nothing uncertain about it. Short story: later Romans (our main sources for that event) portrayed their Republican institutions as having changed overnight to accommodate new conceptions of freedom. Historians disagree whether it was a matter of fact, or whether it was later development ascribed to an earlier beginning than historically, to reinforce an ideological point. It would have been better to be a little more circumspect.

My classicist colleague recommends: The Limits of Empire: The Roman Army in the East (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1992)

Thank you. My understanding is and has been that the republican political system was constantly under development, with many things associated with the more mature republic appearing in stages after the overthrow of the kings. My impression is that Southern is being at best misleading here (and my guess is that she is being simply wrong), I'm likely to avoid reading her book since I don't feel I can trust her.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on April 18, 2019, 09:02:40 PM
Beard deals with the foundational myth making of the Republic in SPQR - a good antidote to Southern
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on April 18, 2019, 09:35:45 PM
I have been mostly reading for work these days (years?) but Joane Freedman's latest book may be of interest to you. Sav was following her online course on the American Revolution recently. It's about physical violence on the floor of Congress, and the erosion of norms...

https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374154776

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 19, 2019, 12:25:34 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 18, 2019, 09:02:40 PM
Beard deals with the foundational myth making of the Republic in SPQR - a good antidote to Southern

Second that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on April 22, 2019, 08:53:30 AM
One of the jokes in Futurama is that Fry uses an antiquated pronunciation of the word "Ask" in the thirty first century it's pronounced "Axe".  I thought of that when reading selections from the Canterbury Tales; in the Pardoner's tale "Ask" is written as "Axe." The grammarians were right all along; our language is devolving... back to Middle English.   :(

;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 27, 2019, 08:35:04 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 27, 2009, 11:39:24 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 27, 2009, 11:13:50 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 17, 2009, 01:37:56 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 17, 2009, 01:30:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 17, 2009, 01:24:42 PM

Herodotus also tells the story (IIRC) about "fighting in the shade" and the Persians attacking via hidden paths.

Not all about the movie is wrong. :)

Only so far as Herodotus is right.   ;)

Herodotus' book sometimes sounds much like what one would get if one attempted to write a history of WW2 today by asking some random guys in a bar what happened.  ;)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpbfcomics.com%2Farchive_b%2FPBF209-Now_Showing.jpg&hash=102301bbcb2328454bcc0c47af4273d0fb40a158)

Heh, Perry Bible Fellowship. Too sad that he stopped writing - one of the best webcomics around.
Oh really?

https://pbfcomics.com/comics/harlots-web/
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on April 27, 2019, 10:47:52 AM
Nothing to do all weekend, except


https://www.amazon.com/Armoured-Warfare-Budapest-Norbert-Számvéber/dp/6155583099
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: viper37 on May 10, 2019, 10:38:53 AM
Did someone here read some of these books?
https://www.amazon.ca/s?i=stripbooks&rh=p_27%3AMichael+J.+Sullivan&ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1

Are they worth it?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on May 10, 2019, 11:15:33 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 10, 2019, 10:38:53 AM
Did someone here read some of these books?
https://www.amazon.ca/s?i=stripbooks&rh=p_27%3AMichael+J.+Sullivan&ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1

Are they worth it?

I've read the "Riyria Revelations" (their first series, which judging by that list is chronologically the last - IIRC "Michael J. Sullivan" is a nom-de-plume for a pair of writers.)

I remember the books as being readable but nothing special; while I enjoyed it I believe I started speed reading part way through the second omnibus volume. Certainly not worth modern paperback prices. Possibly worth Kindle prices.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: viper37 on May 10, 2019, 12:18:10 PM
ok, thank you very much!  I'll pass on this series, try something else :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 14, 2019, 02:05:19 PM
Humble Bundle has a collection of pulp fiction - Mickey Spillane, Gore Vidal, George Axelrod, Ed McBain, and others. Less than 24 hours to go! https://www.humblebundle.com/books/pulp-fiction-books?hmb_source=navbar&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=tile_index_6
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 15, 2019, 08:15:01 AM
If I may recommend a regimental to B4 and the other grognards here, try

Mother May You Never See the Sights I Have Seen: The Fifty-Seventh Massachusetts Veteran Volunteers in the Army of the Potomac, 1864-1865

https://www.amazon.com/Mother-Never-Sights-Have-Seen/dp/0060162570

QuoteThis comprehensive, muster-to-disbandment account of a regiment involved in Ulysses S. Grant's Overland campaign is an unusually detailed study of men at war, as well as a superb unit history. In the thick of the battles of Spotsylvania, the Wilderness and Petersburg, the 57th Massachusetts probably suffered more casualties than any other in the Army of the Potomac. Wilkinson, a long-time student of the Civil War, quotes diaries and letters in which soldiers discuss weapons, uniforms, rations, sanitation, the enemy, rumors, battles, wounds, spiritual crises, and their diminishing chances of returning home alive. One wonders if any other regiment in history contained so many articulate writers. The book includes a fresh look at the Crater incident during the Petersburg siege, in which black soldiers were massacred by Confederates. An appendix includes mini-biographies of each member of the 57th--more than 1000 men. Photos.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on May 15, 2019, 11:20:37 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 10, 2019, 10:38:53 AM
Did someone here read some of these books?
https://www.amazon.ca/s?i=stripbooks&rh=p_27%3AMichael+J.+Sullivan&ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1

Are they worth it?

I do, I like them, alot. Worth the money. Reading is latest right now.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on May 15, 2019, 02:12:32 PM
QuoteOne wonders if any other regiment in history contained so many articulate writers.

In the 19th century it seems like you were either illiterate or wrote in impressive flowery prose with little space in between.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 15, 2019, 06:57:40 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 15, 2019, 08:15:01 AM
If I may recommend a regimental to B4 and the other grognards here, try

Mother May You Never See the Sights I Have Seen: The Fifty-Seventh Massachusetts Veteran Volunteers in the Army of the Potomac, 1864-1865

https://www.amazon.com/Mother-Never-Sights-Have-Seen/dp/0060162570

QuoteThis comprehensive, muster-to-disbandment account of a regiment involved in Ulysses S. Grant's Overland campaign is an unusually detailed study of men at war, as well as a superb unit history. In the thick of the battles of Spotsylvania, the Wilderness and Petersburg, the 57th Massachusetts probably suffered more casualties than any other in the Army of the Potomac. Wilkinson, a long-time student of the Civil War, quotes diaries and letters in which soldiers discuss weapons, uniforms, rations, sanitation, the enemy, rumors, battles, wounds, spiritual crises, and their diminishing chances of returning home alive. One wonders if any other regiment in history contained so many articulate writers. The book includes a fresh look at the Crater incident during the Petersburg siege, in which black soldiers were massacred by Confederates. An appendix includes mini-biographies of each member of the 57th--more than 1000 men. Photos.

I'll check it out
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 20, 2019, 12:48:32 PM
Sigmund Freud - The Interpretation of Dreams

Cocaine is one hell of a drug :thumbsup:

Some interesting ideas; some idiosyncratic ones (especially in the parts where Freud interprets his own dreams.)  The book was huge influence on both the surrealists as well as stream-of-consciousnesses writers.  (The translation is notoriously difficult, so parts of the book do read like "Finnegan's Wake.)

My favorite parts where the footnotes which Freud uses both to take pot-shots at Jung and to take credit for Jung's work.  (I learned from the end notes that Jung was Freud's first non-Jewish disciple.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 20, 2019, 12:56:32 PM
(https://i.redd.it/2j2eggvfoway.png)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 23, 2019, 10:56:03 AM
Moll Flanders by Daniel Defoe

Moll is a greedy whore who gives us an account of her wicked, wicked life; where everything is accounted for in terms of pounds, shillings and pence.  (Some critics see this as an early indictment of capitalism; and one of Marx's critiques of the bourgeois is that they reduce every relationship to money.)  At times it comes across as Defoe is simply trying to write the most lurid thing he can come up with; as bigamy, shoplifting, infanticide, robbery, prostitution, pick pocketing, and horse thieving are all part of the narrative.  Defoe's style is straightforward and, given the subject matter, that makes it kind of funny.

I learned they burned counterfeiters at the stake in 17th Century England.   :bowler:

At the end of the book Moll and one of her husbands are sent to Virginia as punishment for their many crimes.  She sails up "That mighty river the Potomac."  I thought that was funny, since the book was first published in 1722; before there was even a George Washington, much less a Washington DC.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 23, 2019, 10:59:41 AM
Cruel and unusual was OK back then.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on May 23, 2019, 07:54:14 PM
I read "Killing Patton". It had good info and showed the likely perps who tried to kill him and why. Even talked about the head of the OSS (precursor to the CIA) who gave an operative the go ahead to kill Patton. But the book makes no conclusions nor has definitive info on if the accident that killed Patton was purposefully done.

"Washington's Immortals". Good, in depth book of the American Revolution. It's about certain elite regiments, mainly from Maryland, that had formed before the revolution for the state's defense. Without the actions of these units the colonists may not have won war. They made the difference in a number of battles. One notable event was when Washington's army was trapped on Manhattan and these units halted the British advances, delaying the battle over night so that the army was able to  escape across the river. Lots of good insight into the revolution along with discussions of these particular units.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on May 23, 2019, 08:14:00 PM
Quote from: KRonn on May 23, 2019, 07:54:14 PM
I read "Killing Patton". It had good info and showed the likely perps who tried to kill him and why. Even talked about the head of the OSS (precursor to the CIA) who gave an operative the go ahead to kill Patton. But the book makes no conclusions nor has definitive info on if the accident that killed Patton was purposefully done.

It was a low speed collision and his death was a total fluke. Nobody else in his car was hurt. I find this a ridiculous idea.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 28, 2019, 03:40:53 PM
Anyone have any suggestions for a good book on the Great Northern War in English?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 28, 2019, 03:55:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2019, 08:14:00 PM
Quote from: KRonn on May 23, 2019, 07:54:14 PM
I read "Killing Patton". It had good info and showed the likely perps who tried to kill him and why. Even talked about the head of the OSS (precursor to the CIA) who gave an operative the go ahead to kill Patton. But the book makes no conclusions nor has definitive info on if the accident that killed Patton was purposefully done.

It was a low speed collision and his death was a total fluke. Nobody else in his car was hurt. I find this a ridiculous idea.

When I was in college I found a book that had the most ridiculous conspiracy theory I had yet come across.  Top Nazis had Rudolf Hess murdered and sent a body-double to Britain in an airplane.  The man who spend 40 years in Spandau prison was in fact an impostor.  I honestly couldn't understand why anyone would do that or why someone would believe that or others would do that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 28, 2019, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 28, 2019, 03:40:53 PM
Anyone have any suggestions for a good book on the Great Northern War in English?

I understand your interest.

Unfortunately there is no definitive work on the war. Some suggestions below.

The Northern Wars 1558-1721, by Frost. This book covers more than just the GNW, but I think it's the modern book (in any language) with the best understanding of the war. It also isn't limited to just a single country's POV, and by its nature provides background to the war. Highly recommended. It's also in print and easily available AFAIK.

Charles XII of Sweden, by Hatton. Although somewhat old by now (it's from 1968) it remains the best biography of Charles XII in any language, which of course means that the GNW features prominently.

A fairly nice but a bit random and not extremely well written book is the recent Great Northern War Compendium, in two volumes. Lots of pictures and articles from different countries, but not a complete treatment of the war.

I don't remember if you've come across Frans G. Bengtsson's Life of Charles XII (the author of The Long Ships, though this book is non-fiction), which is a great read but not a modern work.

IIRC Massie's book on Peter the Great is a good read but might not give a modern scholarly view of the war.

Peter Englund's book on Poltava is a classic of military history and a great book, but it covers only that battle and only from the Swedish POV (its English title, The Battle That Shook Europe: Poltava and the Birth of the Russian Empire, is misleading.

If you have any more questions about the GNW please ask.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 28, 2019, 04:19:12 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 28, 2019, 04:17:41 PM
IIRC Massie's book on Peter the Great is a good read but might not give a modern scholarly view of the war.

I can confirm that it's not much of a modern view of the war, but the GNW is prominently featured. The book is mostly from Peter's/Russia's perspective, but should give lots of insight into Charles' motivations and the Swedish war effort as well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 28, 2019, 04:32:16 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 28, 2019, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 28, 2019, 03:40:53 PM
Anyone have any suggestions for a good book on the Great Northern War in English?

I understand your interest.

Unfortunately there is no definitive work on the war. Some suggestions below.

The Northern Wars 1558-1721, by Frost. This book covers more than just the GNW, but I think it's the modern book (in any language) with the best understanding of the war. It also isn't limited to just a single country's POV, and by its nature provides background to the war. Highly recommended. It's also in print and easily available AFAIK.

Charles XII of Sweden, by Hatton. Although somewhat old by now (it's from 1968) it remains the best biography of Charles XII in any language, which of course means that the GNW features prominently.

A fairly nice but a bit random and not extremely well written book is the recent Great Northern War Compendium, in two volumes. Lots of pictures and articles from different countries, but not a complete treatment of the war.

I don't remember if you've come across Frans G. Bengtsson's Life of Charles XII (the author of The Long Ships, though this book is non-fiction), which is a great read but not a modern work.

IIRC Massie's book on Peter the Great is a good read but might not give a modern scholarly view of the war.

Peter Englund's book on Poltava is a classic of military history and a great book, but it covers only that battle and only from the Swedish POV (its English title, The Battle That Shook Europe: Poltava and the Birth of the Russian Empire, is misleading.

If you have any more questions about the GNW please ask.

Wow - thanks for this very complete and helpful set of recommendations!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on May 28, 2019, 08:55:16 PM
There were some hilarious anecdotes about Charles XII and Augustus II in Massie's book. It is an awesome read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 29, 2019, 04:22:10 PM
Silas Marner by George Eliot

A "Loam and love-child" story where the good end happily and the bad unhappily.  (It says something about how prominent this genre was in the Victorian world that Stella Gibbons could parody it as late as 1932 in "Cold Comfort Farm.)  Like many of Eliot's works this deals with a society in transition from an agrarian one to an industrialized one.  This one is unusual for the period in that one of the key mysteries of the work is left unresolved.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 31, 2019, 03:27:06 PM
Reading "The Poison King: The Life and Legend of Mithradates, Rome's Deadliest Enemy", by Adrienne Mayor.

Very entertaining account of a figure I knew nothing about, a really serious opponent to the expansion of the Roman republic.

His adventures are almost surreally weird in some cases (example: at one point he slits his nephew's throat in full view of thousands with a razor he had hidden in his crotch - only to replace said nephew on the throne with the illegitimate son of his wife, who was also his sister - a woman he had executed. Fun family!  :D).

Apparently he was a fanatic on the subject of poisons. He was famous for taking small doses of various poisons himself, to build up immunity (apparently, with some poisons, this works). Also, for experimenting with antedotes. Allegedly, a favorite party trick was to poison condemned criminals at dinner, while his guests watched, then experiment on the poisoned criminals with various drugs - the guests would get the same dishes as the criminal, but without poison (they hoped).

Apparently, he invented some sort of drug as a universal antedote - or at least, for centuries a particular drug was credited to him.

He was also infamous for conducting a huge ethnic cleansing of Romans in Asia, in which tens of thousands died.

On the other hand - many in Greece/Asia saw him as a saviour figure, from crushing Roman taxation and enslavement. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 31, 2019, 04:03:46 PM
The ending is a hoot. The Poison King was a great read, though obviously it seems like some of those statistics and his exploits are embellished, at least to me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 31, 2019, 04:27:51 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 28, 2019, 04:32:16 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 28, 2019, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 28, 2019, 03:40:53 PM
Anyone have any suggestions for a good book on the Great Northern War in English?

I understand your interest.

Unfortunately there is no definitive work on the war. Some suggestions below.

The Northern Wars 1558-1721, by Frost. This book covers more than just the GNW, but I think it's the modern book (in any language) with the best understanding of the war. It also isn't limited to just a single country's POV, and by its nature provides background to the war. Highly recommended. It's also in print and easily available AFAIK.

Charles XII of Sweden, by Hatton. Although somewhat old by now (it's from 1968) it remains the best biography of Charles XII in any language, which of course means that the GNW features prominently.

A fairly nice but a bit random and not extremely well written book is the recent Great Northern War Compendium, in two volumes. Lots of pictures and articles from different countries, but not a complete treatment of the war.

I don't remember if you've come across Frans G. Bengtsson's Life of Charles XII (the author of The Long Ships, though this book is non-fiction), which is a great read but not a modern work.

IIRC Massie's book on Peter the Great is a good read but might not give a modern scholarly view of the war.

Peter Englund's book on Poltava is a classic of military history and a great book, but it covers only that battle and only from the Swedish POV (its English title, The Battle That Shook Europe: Poltava and the Birth of the Russian Empire, is misleading.

If you have any more questions about the GNW please ask.

Wow - thanks for this very complete and helpful set of recommendations!

Today I was at the Army Museum in Stockholm. They have a special exhibition about the battle of Narva, with a focus on the trophies taken. The Swedish trophy collection is pretty impressive. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on May 31, 2019, 06:40:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2019, 04:27:51 PM
The Swedish trophy collection is pretty impressive. :)

I saw the Kremlin Armory when I was in Moscow, and I agree.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: dps on June 01, 2019, 12:55:12 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 28, 2019, 03:55:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2019, 08:14:00 PM
Quote from: KRonn on May 23, 2019, 07:54:14 PM
I read "Killing Patton". It had good info and showed the likely perps who tried to kill him and why. Even talked about the head of the OSS (precursor to the CIA) who gave an operative the go ahead to kill Patton. But the book makes no conclusions nor has definitive info on if the accident that killed Patton was purposefully done.

It was a low speed collision and his death was a total fluke. Nobody else in his car was hurt. I find this a ridiculous idea.

When I was in college I found a book that had the most ridiculous conspiracy theory I had yet come across.  Top Nazis had Rudolf Hess murdered and sent a body-double to Britain in an airplane.  The man who spend 40 years in Spandau prison was in fact an impostor.  I honestly couldn't understand why anyone would do that or why someone would believe that or others would do that.

I've heard similar theories that it wasn't really Hess that was imprisoned in Spandau, but they claimed that either the British had murdered him, or that he had died in the plane crash in England, and the British put an imposter in his place.  That makes even less sense, IMO.  And there was at least one other theory that the guy in Spandau was an imposter and the real Hess was still alive and secretly imprisoned in Britain (this would have been around 1990 or so, when it would have at least been plausible that he was could have still been alive).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 01, 2019, 01:09:43 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 31, 2019, 06:40:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2019, 04:27:51 PM
The Swedish trophy collection is pretty impressive. :)

I saw the Kremlin Armory when I was in Moscow, and I agree.
^_^
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 01, 2019, 01:54:21 AM
Quote from: dps on June 01, 2019, 12:55:12 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 28, 2019, 03:55:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2019, 08:14:00 PM
Quote from: KRonn on May 23, 2019, 07:54:14 PM
I read "Killing Patton". It had good info and showed the likely perps who tried to kill him and why. Even talked about the head of the OSS (precursor to the CIA) who gave an operative the go ahead to kill Patton. But the book makes no conclusions nor has definitive info on if the accident that killed Patton was purposefully done.

It was a low speed collision and his death was a total fluke. Nobody else in his car was hurt. I find this a ridiculous idea.

When I was in college I found a book that had the most ridiculous conspiracy theory I had yet come across.  Top Nazis had Rudolf Hess murdered and sent a body-double to Britain in an airplane.  The man who spend 40 years in Spandau prison was in fact an impostor.  I honestly couldn't understand why anyone would do that or why someone would believe that or others would do that.

I've heard similar theories that it wasn't really Hess that was imprisoned in Spandau, but they claimed that either the British had murdered him, or that he had died in the plane crash in England, and the British put an imposter in his place.  That makes even less sense, IMO.  And there was at least one other theory that the guy in Spandau was an imposter and the real Hess was still alive and secretly imprisoned in Britain (this would have been around 1990 or so, when it would have at least been plausible that he was could have still been alive).

I remember Laurence Olivier being put forward as being the guy in Spandau. This was the mid-80s.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 09, 2019, 06:14:54 AM
An excellent piece on why the warning in 1984 continues to be critically important for the right and left

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/07/1984-george-orwell/590638/
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Berkut on June 10, 2019, 03:53:49 PM
Reading the Elon Musk biography.

It is pretty incredible.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 10, 2019, 04:37:08 PM
I finished a collection of four of Tolstoy's "Short" stories.  The first three ("Family Happiness," "The Death of Ivan Illyich," and "The Kreutzer Sonata") were all what I'd expect from a Tolstoy short story.  The stories are a critique of Russian society in which the main characters go through an intense period of purgation to reach an epiphany which corresponds to Tolstoy's worldview.  This view grew progressively more ascetic as Tolstoy grew older and the stories become progressively bleaker.

The final story, "Hadji Murat" is different; it's historical fiction set during the Russian colonial wars in (plus ça change) Chechnya.  That's a rollicking adventure tale filled with treacherous mountain natives, crafty Russian generals, beautiful princesses, put-upon soldiers and a dim-witted Czar.  Unfortunately it doesn't seem quite complete (it was published posthumously) and the narrative wanders.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 10, 2019, 10:47:48 PM
I'm currently gritting my teeth, trying to make it to the end of Crete, 1941, by Antony Beevor.  It's a horrible disappointment.  I loved his books on Stalingrad, Berlin and the Spanish Civil War.

He covers the British expeditionary force to mainland Greece as well, and the evacuation to Crete, the airborne landing itself, but you can tell he didn't care that much about those and what he really wanted to write about was post-airdrop resistance, or more specifically the colorful cast of characters sent by British Special Operation Executive to Crete to recruit and organize the resistance.  There's no real narrative flow in this part.  It seems like he just lined up note cards in chronological order and plopped them on a page. 

Do not recommend.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on June 20, 2019, 09:27:52 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 10, 2019, 03:53:49 PM
Reading the Elon Musk biography.

It is pretty incredible.

Just now finished it myself.  I agree that it's a fascinating read.  I went into it of two minds about Musk, and came out the same, but I think I understand him and his methods a lot better now.

I'd have liked it more if the author had gone more into detail on the turnover among SpaceX and Tesla employees.  Long work hours from highly motivated 25-year-olds achieve high productivity and lower costs in the short term, but risk losing valuable skills as workers get older and have other competing interests.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 09, 2019, 11:23:18 AM
A while ago I got Alien Next Door, which is a cute little book about the famous xenomorph getting into everyday situations. Today I got delivered its sister volume Jonesy: Nine Lives On The Nostromo, which is about what Jonesy gets up to off camera in Alien. It's not the same artist, but they share some similarities. They're cute and dirt cheap, so why not get both, but if you only get one then get Alien Next Door. They don't have any text so everyone can enjoy them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 09, 2019, 03:33:54 PM
I also got a brand new book on Charles XII that I hadn't heard about until it showed up on Amazon: Charles XII: Warrior King (edited by Hattendorf et al.), part 4 of something called Protagonists of History in International Perspective. 20 scholars from 12 countries write about how Charles XII appeared in the eyes of various countries. Haven't started it yet, but it seems pretty nice, color pics etc. It wasn't cheap mind.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 09, 2019, 03:36:05 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 09, 2019, 03:33:54 PM
I also got a brand new book on Charles XII that I hadn't heard about until it showed up on Amazon: Charles XII: Warrior King (edited by Hattendorf et al.), part 4 of something called Protagonists of History in International Perspective. 20 scholars from 12 countries write about how Charles XII appeared in the eyes of various countries. Haven't started it yet, but it seems pretty nice, color pics etc. It wasn't cheap mind.

The books I wanted that you recommended were also - expensive. I'm going to borrow them from the library, something I don't ordinarily do ...  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 09, 2019, 03:47:05 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 09, 2019, 03:36:05 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 09, 2019, 03:33:54 PM
I also got a brand new book on Charles XII that I hadn't heard about until it showed up on Amazon: Charles XII: Warrior King (edited by Hattendorf et al.), part 4 of something called Protagonists of History in International Perspective. 20 scholars from 12 countries write about how Charles XII appeared in the eyes of various countries. Haven't started it yet, but it seems pretty nice, color pics etc. It wasn't cheap mind.

The books I wanted that you recommended were also - expensive. I'm going to borrow them from the library, something I don't ordinarily do ...  :lol:

Shouldn't have blown your money on strollers.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 11, 2019, 09:05:21 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 09, 2019, 03:36:05 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 09, 2019, 03:33:54 PM
I also got a brand new book on Charles XII that I hadn't heard about until it showed up on Amazon: Charles XII: Warrior King (edited by Hattendorf et al.), part 4 of something called Protagonists of History in International Perspective. 20 scholars from 12 countries write about how Charles XII appeared in the eyes of various countries. Haven't started it yet, but it seems pretty nice, color pics etc. It wasn't cheap mind.

The books I wanted that you recommended were also - expensive. I'm going to borrow them from the library, something I don't ordinarily do ...  :lol:
Action your fanart off to make ends meet.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 12, 2019, 08:44:53 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 11, 2019, 09:05:21 PM

Action your fanart off to make ends meet.

:lol:

Drawing fan art is not a road to riches. Fact is, there are thousands of desperate fan artists selling commissions online, and so the prices tend to be low.

I'm often asked to sell my stuff, but trust me, it's not worth going through the effort to sell: I simply spend too much time on each piece. Each one takes at a minimum 10 hours to make; I couldn't sell them at a price that would pay me enough to be worth it. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 12, 2019, 11:08:43 AM
10 hours? Just charge your lawyer rate :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 12, 2019, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2019, 11:08:43 AM
10 hours? Just charge your lawyer rate :P

If that was at all likely, I would.  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 13, 2019, 06:00:01 PM
And Quiet Flows the Don by Mikhail Sholokhov

Life sucks for the Don Cossacks.  Then the First World War occurs and life sucks for the Don Cossacks.  Then the Russian Revolution happens and life sucks for the Don Cossacks.  Then the civil war happens and life really sucks for the Don Cossacks.

Even knowing the Sholokov won the Nobel Prize, I didn't go into this book with high expectaions.  Sholokhov was Stalin's favorite writer, (and a good friend of Stalin.)  Fortunately Stalin's taste in literature was quite a bit better than his taste in the visual arts; and the book is far from Socialist Realism.  The book doesn't portray the civil war as good versus evil; but instead captures the confusion of the era.  It's not at all clear that the Cossacks would have been any better off with the Nationalists or even a military dictatorship than they were with the Bolsheviks.  It raises the question "What place do a pastoral warrior people have in the workers' and peasants' revolution?"  It's probably only because Sholokhov was such a loyal party man and a friend of Stalin's that he could get away with any political question.

The book gives both a vivid picture of Cossack life as well as the landscape around the Don valley.  It also presents a number of Cossack folk songs; including one from which Pete Seeger cribbed the lyrics to "Where Have All The Flowers Gone?"
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on July 14, 2019, 01:53:32 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 13, 2019, 06:00:01 PM
And Quiet Flows the Don by Mikhail Sholokhov

It's on my shelf, but I've been fearing it wouldn't be as good as I'd hope it to be.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 15, 2019, 08:04:41 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 13, 2019, 06:00:01 PM
And Quiet Flows the Don by Mikhail Sholokhov

Life sucks for the Don Cossacks.  Then the First World War occurs and life sucks for the Don Cossacks.  Then the Russian Revolution happens and life sucks for the Don Cossacks.  Then the civil war happens and life really sucks for the Don Cossacks.

Even knowing the Sholokov won the Nobel Prize, I didn't go into this book with high expectaions.  Sholokhov was Stalin's favorite writer, (and a good friend of Stalin.)  Fortunately Stalin's taste in literature was quite a bit better than his taste in the visual arts; and the book is far from Socialist Realism.  The book doesn't portray the civil war as good versus evil; but instead captures the confusion of the era.  It's not at all clear that the Cossacks would have been any better off with the Nationalists or even a military dictatorship than they were with the Bolsheviks.  It raises the question "What place do a pastoral warrior people have in the workers' and peasants' revolution?"  It's probably only because Sholokhov was such a loyal party man and a friend of Stalin's that he could get away with any political question.

The book gives both a vivid picture of Cossack life as well as the landscape around the Don valley.  It also presents a number of Cossack folk songs; including one from which Pete Seeger cribbed the lyrics to "Where Have All The Flowers Gone?"

The Stalin-approved version: "Where have all the Kulacks gone?"  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 15, 2019, 02:11:03 PM
Quote from: Maladict on July 14, 2019, 01:53:32 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 13, 2019, 06:00:01 PM
And Quiet Flows the Don by Mikhail Sholokhov

It's on my shelf, but I've been fearing it wouldn't be as good as I'd hope it to be.

If you like Tolstoy, you'll probably like Sholokov.  It's similar to "War and Peace" or "Hadji Murat" in that it's about families caught up in the events of their time.  (Tolstoy makes being a Cossack sound much more fun than Sholokhov does, but Sholokhov was from the Don Valley, and Tolstoy's estate was near Moscow.)  It's also interesting from an anthropological point of view as it details the Cossacks at a time when their lifestyle had ended but was still in recent memory.  I liked it; but I went in with low expectations.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on July 15, 2019, 02:18:21 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 15, 2019, 02:11:03 PM


If you like Tolstoy, you'll probably like Sholokov.  It's similar to "War and Peace" or "Hadji Murat" in that it's about families caught up in the events of their time.  (Tolstoy makes being a Cossack sound much more fun than Sholokhov does, but Sholokhov was from the Don Valley, and Tolstoy's estate was near Moscow.)  It's also interesting from an anthropological point of view as it details the Cossacks at a time when their lifestyle had ended but was still in recent memory.  I liked it; but I went in with low expectations.

That's good enough for me  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on July 15, 2019, 08:11:16 PM
I'm reading a book "Sapiens". It's similar to "Guns, Germs and Steel" and I find it quite good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 16, 2019, 01:13:09 AM
I've ordered both volumes of Robert Forczyk's Tank Warfare on the Eastern Front.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 16, 2019, 08:54:02 AM
Quote from: KRonn on July 15, 2019, 08:11:16 PM
I'm reading a book "Sapiens". It's similar to "Guns, Germs and Steel" and I find it quite good.

I found it very thought provoking, though not all of his sallies were hits to my mind.

I really, really liked the bit about how humanity's ability to believe in completely imaginary things have proved very useful for social evolution.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 16, 2019, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 16, 2019, 01:13:09 AM
I've ordered both volumes of Robert Forczyk's Tank Warfare on the Eastern Front.

Trying to one up the neighbor?   :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 16, 2019, 10:13:00 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on July 19, 2019, 09:22:42 AM
Origins of Totalitarianism

When I first read this in University it seemed an interesting analysis of how it had happened in Germany and Russia but not that relevant when Liberal Democracy was on the ascendant.   But today it is a frightening read when one considers the parallels of what is happening in the US under Trump.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on July 19, 2019, 01:26:55 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 19, 2019, 09:22:42 AM
Origins of Totalitarianism

When I first read this in University it seemed an interesting analysis of how it had happened in Germany and Russia but not that relevant when Liberal Democracy was on the ascendant.   But today it is a frightening read when one considers the parallels of what is happening in the US under Trump.

I've been assured that dictatorship and totalitarianism can never happen in America as long as the People have their God-given right to bear arms untrammeled and guns are freely available at your local convenience store or Wal-Mart.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 25, 2019, 12:36:49 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 09, 2019, 03:33:54 PM
I also got a brand new book on Charles XII that I hadn't heard about until it showed up on Amazon: Charles XII: Warrior King (edited by Hattendorf et al.), part 4 of something called Protagonists of History in International Perspective. 20 scholars from 12 countries write about how Charles XII appeared in the eyes of various countries. Haven't started it yet, but it seems pretty nice, color pics etc. It wasn't cheap mind.

And I've finished it. Well worth a read for the descriptions of the way different countries dealt with the GNW. A few weird things though, one of the Swedes indicates that Charles started a war against Norway after his return to Sweden, and as a historian she must know that this is a lie. And the Danish guy writes "...an endless series of military conflicts, collectively known as the Great Northern War, in which Sweden was almost invariably the aggressor.". lolwut? Why write something like this?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 12:40:56 PM
Well, the war mostly played out outside of Sweden.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on July 25, 2019, 12:42:24 PM
The GNW was designed as the Great Gangbang of Sweden, obviously this Dane feels some embarrassment at how well Denmark's scheme went.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on July 25, 2019, 12:43:47 PM
Quote from: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 12:40:56 PM
Well, the war mostly played out outside of Sweden.

Depends on what you mean by "Sweden". Sweden's 2019 borders or Sweden's 1700 borders?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 25, 2019, 12:43:57 PM
Quote from: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 12:40:56 PM
Well, the war mostly played out outside of Sweden.

How would that have a bearing on what was written?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 12:44:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 25, 2019, 12:43:47 PM
Quote from: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 12:40:56 PM
Well, the war mostly played out outside of Sweden.

Depends on what you mean by "Sweden". Sweden's 2019 borders or Sweden's 1700 borders?

Both.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 12:45:58 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 25, 2019, 12:43:57 PM
Quote from: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 12:40:56 PM
Well, the war mostly played out outside of Sweden.

How would that have a bearing on what was written?

If one is retarded it might seem like the power fighting outside its territory is the aggressor.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 25, 2019, 12:46:36 PM
Quote from: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 12:45:58 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 25, 2019, 12:43:57 PM
Quote from: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 12:40:56 PM
Well, the war mostly played out outside of Sweden.

How would that have a bearing on what was written?

If one is retarded it might seem like the power fighting outside its territory is the aggressor.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on July 25, 2019, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 12:44:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 25, 2019, 12:43:47 PM
Quote from: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 12:40:56 PM
Well, the war mostly played out outside of Sweden.

Depends on what you mean by "Sweden". Sweden's 2019 borders or Sweden's 1700 borders?

Both.

Well the initial decisive battles took place in Swedish territory because, you know, Swedish territory was being invaded.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on July 25, 2019, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 25, 2019, 12:36:49 PM
And I've finished it. Well worth a read for the descriptions of the way different countries dealt with the GNW. A few weird things though, one of the Swedes indicates that Charles started a war against Norway after his return to Sweden, and as a historian she must know that this is a lie. And the Danish guy writes "...an endless series of military conflicts, collectively known as the Great Northern War, in which Sweden was almost invariably the aggressor.". lolwut? Why write something like this?

How was the French chapter?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 25, 2019, 01:58:16 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 25, 2019, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 25, 2019, 12:36:49 PM
And I've finished it. Well worth a read for the descriptions of the way different countries dealt with the GNW. A few weird things though, one of the Swedes indicates that Charles started a war against Norway after his return to Sweden, and as a historian she must know that this is a lie. And the Danish guy writes "...an endless series of military conflicts, collectively known as the Great Northern War, in which Sweden was almost invariably the aggressor.". lolwut? Why write something like this?

How was the French chapter?

Written by Eric Schnakenbourg. 12 pages, half covering the French view of Charles XII in the political sense and half the French view of Charles XII the man. Obviously very short and cannot be very detailed. It's not my area of expertise so I didn't find any obvious problems at least.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 02:43:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 25, 2019, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 12:44:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 25, 2019, 12:43:47 PM
Quote from: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 12:40:56 PM
Well, the war mostly played out outside of Sweden.

Depends on what you mean by "Sweden". Sweden's 2019 borders or Sweden's 1700 borders?

Both.

Well the initial decisive battles took place in Swedish territory because, you know, Swedish territory was being invaded.

Do you mean the Swedish invasion of Denmark (in Denmark)? The battle of Narva (in Sweden)? Or the Swedish invasion of Poland (in Poland)?

The war was about one minute of neutralizing Denmark, one minute of temporarily neutralizing Russia and 7 years of walking around in Poland, and at the end a few years of invading Norway.

But yeah, Sweden lost and most of it was overrun, so a lot of shit happened in Sweden also. It's just that most of the decisive things happened outside of it.

The decisive battle of the war was Poltava, in the Ukraine.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on July 25, 2019, 04:11:02 PM
I mean the Polish/Saxon invasion of the Baltic and the Russian invasion at the Baltic. The Battles of Riga and Narva respectively. The Swedish victories there is what made the war what it was.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on July 25, 2019, 05:12:32 PM
Fair point. That and king Charles being somewhat on the special side.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on July 25, 2019, 05:28:44 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 25, 2019, 01:58:16 PM
Written by Eric Schnakenbourg. 12 pages, half covering the French view of Charles XII in the political sense and half the French view of Charles XII the man. Obviously very short and cannot be very detailed. It's not my area of expertise so I didn't find any obvious problems at least.

Thanks. I am more familiar with his (French) work on Scandinavia (and, more interestingly for me, on the French/Northern trade). Twelve page is indeed quite short.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on July 26, 2019, 05:20:09 AM
Thinking about it, I might remember wrong but the battle that ended the siege of Riga was an opposed landing over Daugava, into nominally Polish territory. So that leaves Narva in Swedish territory. Just a minor nitpick that's really neither here nor there.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 27, 2019, 05:20:36 AM
I finally read the first book in Jeffrey Burton Russell's series about the Devil. It's called The Devil: Perceptions of Evil from Antiquity to Primitive Christianity (the other three books are Satan, Lucifer, and Mephistopheles, I've already read those). Like the others it's a great and informative read. :)

You gotta like the first sentence in the bibliography: "The literature on evil and the Devil is vast, and unfortunately much of it is useless."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 27, 2019, 07:51:05 AM
So his books only traffic in useful information?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 27, 2019, 09:42:11 AM
He doesn't strictly say.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on July 27, 2019, 10:05:39 AM
It's all in the little details.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on July 27, 2019, 05:06:47 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 25, 2019, 01:58:16 PM
Written by Eric Schnakenbourg.

And today, I just found out we will be presenting on the same panel at a conference next year...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 27, 2019, 06:49:09 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 27, 2019, 05:06:47 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 25, 2019, 01:58:16 PM
Written by Eric Schnakenbourg.

And today, I just found out we will be presenting on the same panel at a conference next year...

Say hi from me. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on July 27, 2019, 07:02:32 PM
I did a kind of "30 years later" reading of Simon Schama's Citizens: A Chronicle of the French Revolution and was rather surprised by how much i had forgotten or misremembered from my original reading of it.  It is still a great book, though no longer, perhaps, at the forefront of research on the topic.

Schama's conviction that the revolution was unnecessary (not just the terror; the revolution itself) permeates the book, and leaves me unconvinced, but his  level of detail, and the unwinding of various stories is top-notch.  I had forgotten, for instance, that the whole "four generations of nobility" decree for the french army officers (less the technical branches like artillery) was essentially a jobs program for the poor country nobles being pushed out of power and jobs everywhere else in the Ancien Regime.  I had also forgotten the masterful way he told the story, so that the reader is constantly left with the feeling that things could still turn out okay, even knowing what was to come.

If there is a major fault in the book, it is that he does not make chronology clear (despite the title).  He skips around the life, death, and undeath of Mirabeau pretty willy-nilly, until the reader doesn't understand that Mirabeau designed his policies for the time, and not the time for his policies.

Anyway, I think it is a great read for anyone interested in the topic, provided that they set aside the time to read a 1,000 page book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on July 27, 2019, 07:19:19 PM
Yes, it's not really a chronicle.

If you want a perspective from someone much more interested in social history (and with different politics from Schama), you can grab Peter McPhee's Liberty or Death. It's follows chronology a lot more - and has the benefit of encompassing most of the recent research. 

Of Schama, I prefer the Embarassment of Riches and Dead Certainties.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 28, 2019, 04:46:04 AM
Finished Russell's A History of Witchcraft: Sorcerers, Heretics & Pagans, minus the part about modern witchcraft which doesn't interest me. Fairly OK short book, but it's more about witch trials and witch persecutions than actual witchcraft. I understand that the sources are what they are, but IMHO he should have delved deeper into evidence left by actual practices. Even if traditional folk magic isn't considered witchcraft in this sense (which isn't unreasonable), in a world where witchcraft is thought of as real by a large part of the population surely a number of people were inspired to try it out.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on July 29, 2019, 06:58:21 AM
You could try Kieckhefer's Magic in the Middle Ages.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 13, 2019, 07:43:45 AM
Just finished The Three Body Problem, a hard science fiction trilogy by the Chinese writer Liu Cixin.

I really enjoyed it - it's classic mind bending hard science fiction. It won the Hugo in 2015.

The work reminded me a lot of the novel Star Maker by Olaf Stapelton.

Now, the series has its problems. The characters are paper-thin and the plot has more holes than a colander. If that bothers you, you won't enjoy the series.

On the other hand, if you can get past that - it has tons of iconic science fiction concepts sure to be referenced in the years to come (the "Dark Forest" notion for example, as a complete answer to the Fermi paradox).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 13, 2019, 10:16:29 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 13, 2019, 07:43:45 AM
Just finished The Three Body Problem,

I think I've seen the movie.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 13, 2019, 10:30:32 AM
Is there a recommended book about the battle of Guadalcanal?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 13, 2019, 10:43:03 AM
Reading Simon Winder's latest, Lotharingia, which follows his Germania and Danubia. Has all the goofball anecdotes so far (~100 pages) that one would expect of such a history-rich area of the world. So far, my favorite is the random location--a la Richard III--of various king's tombs buried under random things.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 13, 2019, 10:46:45 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 13, 2019, 10:43:03 AM
Reading Simon Winder's latest, Lotharingia, which follows his Germania and Danubia. Has all the goofball anecdotes so far (~100 pages) that one would expect of such a history-rich area of the world. So far, my favorite is the random location--a la Richard III--of various king's tombs buried under random things.

I was thinking about starting that series of books - do they come with the Habbs seal of approval?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 13, 2019, 10:53:29 AM
They 100% do. I will warn, of course, that they are not proper histories, per se, but are a pedant's delight. If you want a heap of narratively strung-together anecdotes, fun turns of phrase, excellent humor, and a properly English appreciation for everything non-English (he's even got a soft spot for the Habsburgs), you will have a tough time selecting for a better series.

At the same time as providing the above, he also knows when to get serious, when to point out just how melancholic some of the history of the areas he researches truly is, but never dwells too long on the tragedy of it all lest the sadness drag the entire book down.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 13, 2019, 10:57:31 AM
Excellent, thank you.  Just the thing I am looking for.   :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on August 13, 2019, 03:41:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 13, 2019, 10:30:32 AM
Is there a recommended book about the battle of Guadalcanal?

Obviously, Guadalcanal Diary.  Well-written first-person stuff. 

The War with Japan : The Period of Balance, May 1942-October 1943 by H.P. Willmott is THE analytical (vice descriptive) high-level look at Guadalcanal and how it fit into US and Japanese strategies during the length of the campaign.

Richard Frank's Guadalcanal: The Definitive Account of the Landmark Battle is kinda long in the tooth but the best descriptive account, I think.

James Hornfischer's Neptune's Inferno: The U.S. Navy at Guadalcanal doesn't doesn't cover the Japanese very much but has a lot of rich detail about the USN and how and why it fought the naval battles off Guadalcanal the way it did.  This is a much better book than his earlier, less intellectually rigorous books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 13, 2019, 04:11:16 PM
Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 13, 2019, 11:23:40 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 13, 2019, 10:53:29 AM
They 100% do. I will warn, of course, that they are not proper histories, per se, but are a pedant's delight. If you want a heap of narratively strung-together anecdotes, fun turns of phrase, excellent humor, and a properly English appreciation for everything non-English (he's even got a soft spot for the Habsburgs), you will have a tough time selecting for a better series.

At the same time as providing the above, he also knows when to get serious, when to point out just how melancholic some of the history of the areas he researches truly is, but never dwells too long on the tragedy of it all lest the sadness drag the entire book down.

40ish pages in, it is great fun.  Great laugh out loud lines every few pages. Great recommendation
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 14, 2019, 12:50:15 PM
The Other Greeks by Victor Davis Hanson

Back when WASPs ruled the universities, Edwin Newman had a bit on how university presidents often had hyper-WASPy names that could be reversed or put in any order.  Kingman Brewster (Yale) could have just as easily been Brewster Kingman; or Nicholas Murray Butler (Columbia) could have been Nicholas Butler Murray, Murray Nicholas Butler and so on.  Victor Davis Hanson was simply born too late (and on a farm, to make matters worse.)

I had run across a reference to this book when going through an online course about ancient Greece; and finally got around to reading it (I forget the name of the course, but it was great.  The professor got a number of students up on stage and put them in a phalanx.  Then he had them do the Hoplite war chant (Eleu, eleu eleu, in case you ever find yourself in a phalanx.))  The thesis to the book is that agrarian crisis of the Greek dark ages led to the establishment of a group of small-time independent farmers which, in turn, led to both Hoplite democracy and the phalanx.  The book then goes on to discuss the decline and fall of this system (he dates the beginning of the end to the Persian Wars rather than the rise of the Athenian Empire or the Peloponnesian war.)

This being Hanson he does stop along the way to discuss California raisin farming and the modern American university.  Still the book is an interesting read.  One thing that he said was that people who farm their own land are more willing to diversify and innovate than tenant farmers.  I thought that was insightful; it would explain how such a fertile land as Ireland had such a horrible famine (and why the sharecropping southern United States remained so backwards for so long.)  Another was that there were never a people so free as the Greeks in the Ancient Near East; but also that no one before them had chattel slavery.  I don't know enough about the Ancient Near East to know if that has merit; but if so it's an interesting insight.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 18, 2019, 09:10:32 PM
The novelization of the Dora: Lost City of Gold movie looks incredible. Genius move to portray the lead as schizophrenic.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_iqirPXkAUJttJ.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_PCknNU0AYFZ99.jpg:large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_PuQnOUYAEsyzH.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_VZ4o_U8AAQ7wA.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 11, 2019, 03:56:39 PM
Atwood's new book is hard to put down, but eventually I needed to get some sleep.  I liked the approach she took and it doesn't hurt that she writes so well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 11, 2019, 04:15:26 PM
Is it written on fungi?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 11, 2019, 04:17:41 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on September 11, 2019, 04:38:40 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 11, 2019, 04:15:26 PM
Is it written on fungi?

Maybe one of her first works was destroyed by the leak in the Malthus family vacation house :weep:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 11, 2019, 04:38:58 PM
Was re-reading The Long Ships by Frans G. Bengtsson, and looked up some interesting trivia about the book.

It was written during WW2, and it includes a sympathetic Jewish character - a silversmith from Iberia.

In the early 40s, a Norwegian publisher bought the translation rights and, being under Nazi occupation at the time, asked if they could make some "deletions and corrections" (most obviously, Orm's friendship with a Jew). Bengtsson's reply:

Quote
I will allow neither a single comma nor a single Jew to be removed from the book (...) I completely refuse to be translated into Norwegian until these criminally insane cretins have stopped working in publishing there, and preferably stopped doing everything else as well.

And when a publisher in the similarly occupied Prague asked to do the same:

Quote
May the fires of Sodom and Gomorra wash clean a world in which these ideas are born from the incest of villains and idiots.

Also: the Bluetooth technology was named "Bluetooth" after the character in this book (and historic king) Harald Bluetooth.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 11, 2019, 04:40:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 11, 2019, 04:38:40 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 11, 2019, 04:15:26 PM
Is it written on fungi?

Maybe one of her first works was destroyed by the leak in the Malthus family vacation house :weep:

Heh. No, but there were some original poems pinned to the walls there - all sadly removed now; it was decided they created too great an incentive to break in and steal them. Particularly now that our place is inside a provincial park.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 11, 2019, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 11, 2019, 04:38:58 PM
Was re-reading The Long Ships by Frans G. Bengtsson, and looked up some interesting trivia about the book.

It was written during WW2, and it includes a sympathetic Jewish character - a silversmith from Iberia.

In the early 40s, a Norwegian publisher bought the translation rights and, being under Nazi occupation at the time, asked if they could make some "deletions and corrections" (most obviously, Orm's friendship with a Jew). Bengtsson's reply:

Quote
I will allow neither a single comma nor a single Jew to be removed from the book (...) I completely refuse to be translated into Norwegian until these criminally insane cretins have stopped working in publishing there, and preferably stopped doing everything else as well.

And when a publisher in the similarly occupied Prague asked to do the same:

Quote
May the fires of Sodom and Gomorra wash clean a world in which these ideas are born from the incest of villains and idiots.

Also: the Bluetooth technology was named "Bluetooth" after the character in this book (and historic king) Harald Bluetooth.

Bengtsson was pretty great.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 16, 2019, 10:20:46 PM
Needed some pool-side reading material for my trip.  Had seen an interview with the Coen brothers on why they had decided to remake True Grit, and they answered something about their love for the source material, so I grabbed a copy.  I enjoyed the hell out of it.  When I finished I just started again at the beginning.  Quite a bit of the movie dialogue was lifted verbatim, but there were also large parts that were left out.  My guess is studio execs thought some scenes in the book were too border line sexual assaulty.  You all know that at times I'm not super-diligent watchinig every frame of a movie, but I can't recall any mention in either film version about Rooster riding with Quantrill.  That's a major part of the book, Rooster's back story.  The book is told first person by Mattie, the 14 year old girl, so that's one thing that definitely gives the story a different perspective.  It's a short book, more like a longer novella.

Also picked up Beevor's book on The Bulge.  He does give the operational flow, but a lot of his attention is on the Anglo-British rivalries and how much of a cunt Montgomery was.  He also spends a lot of time time talking about Belgian civilians getting blown up.  One thing he doesn't cover at all is the miraculous job of rearming and remanning the Krauts did after Falaise.  In his telling it's pretty much, "they were retreating, Hitler ordered an offensive, then they attacked."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 17, 2019, 09:28:34 AM
Glad you liked True Grit (novel), Yi. I picked it up a few years ago and had much the same experience, minus the restart of it. I finished it in two sittings; it was that engrossing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 17, 2019, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 17, 2019, 09:28:34 AM
Glad you liked True Grit (novel), Yi. I picked it up a few years ago and had much the same experience, minus the restart of it. I finished it in two sittings; it was that engrossing.

Do you agree they just couldn't do the scene after the ferry with LeBeouf whipping Mattie in this day and age?  The scene in Rooster's crib with Mattie holding the expense reports over the fire was a little dark too.

I don't understand why they left out the Quantrill back story though.  That IMO is what turns it from a simpler story of a hard ass lawman to a tale of redemption.  As I said, maybe they included it but it was in movie scenes that I happened to miss.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 17, 2019, 01:44:44 PM
Are we talking about this whipping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GJDnUrBMu8

Because that's in the movie.  :P

I will have to rewatch the movie, but I do not recall LaBeouf being as flirtatious/overt in his advances towards Mattie as in the book, however.

Cogburn's service with Quantrill is also mentioned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YA41ZjlW2E
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 17, 2019, 01:48:54 PM
Well alrighty then. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 17, 2019, 01:51:02 PM
That's one of the reasons I liked the Coens's version so much: they stuck to the book very, very tightly, with only minor variations (usually around adding more dark comedy or weird characters). One notable change that leaped out to me was the hanging of the Indian.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 17, 2019, 05:52:59 PM
 :lol:

I do not know this man...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 17, 2019, 06:14:42 PM
Was the Indian sheriff in the movie?  I'm sure he wasn't in the corn dodger shoot up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 23, 2019, 03:34:25 PM
I finished the book from the exhibit "Star Wars and the Power of Costuming."  It covered the first three movies; you could see how things changed as they moved from the shoe-string budget of Star Wars to the much more lavish productions of Empire and Jedi.  For instance the only way to distress clothing in Star Wars was to abuse it; while by Empire they could simply air-brush mud or wear onto clothing.

My favorite anecdote from Star Wars was after putting on his costume, Alec Guinness rolled around on the ground to make it look not only worn (it had been previously distressed), but dirty as well.

From Empire I learned that the Hoth clothes weren't all that warm; but the Norwegian extras in the film were a hardy bunch and never complained.

For Jedi; in order to make Leia's slave-dancer costume form fitted the costume designer (a man) got a wax bra and explained to Carrie Fisher (and her friend Penny Marshall, who was visiting with her) that she needed to hold it to her chest.  In explaining how to do it the designer used a cupping motion, and he said he got quite a look from both Penny and Carrie.  Fortunately Carrie was game for it; unfortunately she lost a massive amount of weight between costume fitting and shooting; so the top never fit right.

George Lucas's dictate was that costumes had to be seen but not to be noticed; so there's nothing outlandish as there was in Flash Gordon serials, but the costumes are still memorable.  I had never given much thought to the costuming before seeing the exhibition; so I was surprised at how much thought went into each costume.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 23, 2019, 03:55:39 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 14, 2019, 12:50:15 PM
I had run across a reference to this book when going through an online course about ancient Greece; and finally got around to reading it (I forget the name of the course, but it was great.  The professor got a number of students up on stage and put them in a phalanx. 

Sounds like Donald Kagan
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 23, 2019, 04:22:48 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 23, 2019, 03:55:39 PM
Sounds like Donald Kagan

Not Victor Hanson?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 23, 2019, 04:48:17 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 23, 2019, 04:22:48 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 23, 2019, 03:55:39 PM
Sounds like Donald Kagan

Not Victor Hanson?

The instructor talked about knowing Hanson, so it couldn't have been him.  It might have been Kagan; I think it was a Yale course.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on September 23, 2019, 08:00:52 PM
Yeah that is Kagan's Open Course at Yale. I enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 27, 2019, 04:37:26 AM
 :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EESxkEUXYAAbh-k?format=jpg&name=small)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EESxkEvWkAwlwcJ?format=jpg&name=small)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EESxkEVXkAgw_kP?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on October 02, 2019, 01:24:20 PM
The Poetic Edda is really weird.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 02, 2019, 01:26:56 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 02, 2019, 01:24:20 PM
The Poetic Edda is really weird.

What do you find weird about it?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on October 02, 2019, 11:06:12 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 02, 2019, 01:26:56 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 02, 2019, 01:24:20 PM
The Poetic Edda is really weird.

What do you find weird about it?

Stories that don't go anywhere, and the rape.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on October 04, 2019, 10:03:11 PM
Picked up a fascinating book so far. Logistics in the Falklands War.

About halfway through and it's a fascinating read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on October 18, 2019, 10:15:02 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 27, 2019, 06:49:09 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 27, 2019, 05:06:47 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 25, 2019, 01:58:16 PM
Written by Eric Schnakenbourg.

And today, I just found out we will be presenting on the same panel at a conference next year...

Say hi from me. :)

Met him today. A personable fellow.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 19, 2019, 02:08:24 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 18, 2019, 10:15:02 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 27, 2019, 06:49:09 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 27, 2019, 05:06:47 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 25, 2019, 01:58:16 PM
Written by Eric Schnakenbourg.

And today, I just found out we will be presenting on the same panel at a conference next year...

Say hi from me. :)

Met him today. A personable fellow.

Nice. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 21, 2019, 05:41:04 PM
Fuck. Recently I read The Gates of Europe: A History of Ukraine, by Serhii Plokhy. I found it enjoyable and it seemed like a good introduction to the subject. So when I started on his Chernobyl: History of a Tragedy I expected a solid account of Chernobyl. But no. On page two of the preface I came across weirdness:

"Originally it [the reactor core] had contained more than 250 pounds of enriched uranium ..." Technically this is true, but it gives the impression that the core contained only hundreds of pounds of enriched uranium. Quick research suggests that he likely has read the amount of enriched uranium in one fuel assembly as being the amount in the entire core. OK, so a bit weird that he doesn't know much about nuclear reactors and thinks the core was tiny, and weird that it made it through to print. Still, mistakes happen, I read on...

"...- enough to pollute and devastate most of Europe." Really? Some hundreds of pounds of enriched uranium? I struggle on, but fatigue is building...

...and then he launches into a crescendo of weird. "And if the other three reactors of the Chernobyl power plant had been damaged by the explosion of the first, then hardly any living and breathing organisms would have remained on the planet." This is of course complete fantasy. Too bad that he's a fantasist, now I cannot trust anything he writes. So I stopped reading the book. I fucking hate it when this happens.

And get this: the guy is a Harvard professor. What a fucking joke. They're hiring anyone these days. :bleeding:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on October 21, 2019, 06:56:59 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 21, 2019, 05:41:04 PMThey're hiring anyone these days. :bleeding:

:mad:

But, yeah. Unfortunately, Harvard is interested in whatever promotes the Harvard brand; in addition, there are pressures to publish quickly books that will garner attention. A position in the Ivy League often translates into self-indulgence. His first book was probably very good (and it's about the Cossaks, and the early-modern period, quite far from 20th century Chernobyl) - and then suddenly people start treating you like you are an expert in all things East Europeans. After a while, you start believing them. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 22, 2019, 07:41:44 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 21, 2019, 05:41:04 PM
Fuck. Recently I read The Gates of Europe: A History of Ukraine, by Serhii Plokhy. I found it enjoyable and it seemed like a good introduction to the subject. So when I started on his Chernobyl: History of a Tragedy I expected a solid account of Chernobyl. But no. On page two of the preface I came across weirdness:

"Originally it [the reactor core] had contained more than 250 pounds of enriched uranium ..." Technically this is true, but it gives the impression that the core contained only hundreds of pounds of enriched uranium. Quick research suggests that he likely has read the amount of enriched uranium in one fuel assembly as being the amount in the entire core. OK, so a bit weird that he doesn't know much about nuclear reactors and thinks the core was tiny, and weird that it made it through to print. Still, mistakes happen, I read on...

"...- enough to pollute and devastate most of Europe." Really? Some hundreds of pounds of enriched uranium? I struggle on, but fatigue is building...

...and then he launches into a crescendo of weird. "And if the other three reactors of the Chernobyl power plant had been damaged by the explosion of the first, then hardly any living and breathing organisms would have remained on the planet." This is of course complete fantasy. Too bad that he's a fantasist, now I cannot trust anything he writes. So I stopped reading the book. I fucking hate it when this happens.

And get this: the guy is a Harvard professor. What a fucking joke. They're hiring anyone these days. :bleeding:

This is, in a nutshell, what I disliked about the Chernobyl TV series: the drama was excellent, but the overstating of the effects of the tragedy was just unnecessary and misleading.

They can be excused, though, since apparently reputable historians did no better!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 22, 2019, 08:24:12 AM
I think the show is based on that book and he was a consultant.

I enjoyed his book on Ukraine when I was visiting. Though he does have a perspective, which is fine.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 22, 2019, 10:20:15 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 21, 2019, 06:56:59 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 21, 2019, 05:41:04 PMThey're hiring anyone these days. :bleeding:

:mad:

But, yeah. Unfortunately, Harvard is interested in whatever promotes the Harvard brand; in addition, there are pressures to publish quickly books that will garner attention. A position in the Ivy League often translates into self-indulgence. His first book was probably very good (and it's about the Cossaks, and the early-modern period, quite far from 20th century Chernobyl) - and then suddenly people start treating you like you are an expert in all things East Europeans. After a while, you start believing them.

Sounds plausible.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Hamilcar on October 22, 2019, 04:09:14 PM
I started "Skin in the game" by Taleb. Some of the ideas are interesting, but Taleb has such a pathological ego that I find it hard to push through. The faux Mafia talk is a very annoying affectation.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on October 22, 2019, 06:13:17 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on October 22, 2019, 04:09:14 PM
I started "Skin in the game" by Taleb. Some of the ideas are interesting, but Taleb has such a pathological ego that I find it hard to push through. The faux Mafia talk is a very annoying affectation.

Taleb is in interesting character, perhaps more so than he is a writer; I got through The Black Swan and thought it could have been condensed into half a dozen chapters. Haven't picked up any of his later books.  :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: frunk on October 22, 2019, 06:19:14 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 22, 2019, 06:13:17 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on October 22, 2019, 04:09:14 PM
I started "Skin in the game" by Taleb. Some of the ideas are interesting, but Taleb has such a pathological ego that I find it hard to push through. The faux Mafia talk is a very annoying affectation.

Taleb is in interesting character, perhaps more so than he is a writer; I got through The Black Swan and thought it could have been condensed into half a dozen chapters. Haven't picked up any of his later books.  :blush:

Yeah, he's pretty interesting when he stays on firmer mathematical and scientific foundations.  When he wonders off from there it's a bit of a mess.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 23, 2019, 07:40:33 AM
I am enjoying the trilogy by Simon Winder - Germania, Danubia and Lotharingia. Someone here recommended these, and they are great reads - I've dogeared many passages to read to my kid!  ;)

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on October 23, 2019, 07:43:00 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 23, 2019, 08:56:39 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 23, 2019, 07:40:33 AM
I am enjoying the trilogy by Simon Winder - Germania, Danubia and Lotharingia. Someone here recommended these, and they are great reads - I've dogeared many passages to read to my kid!  ;)

Yeah, Habs directed me to the series.  Loved it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 24, 2019, 04:00:42 PM
The Economist has a lengthy review of a book called We Fight Fascists, dealing with a part of British history I didn't know even existed.  Mosley was released from internment at the end of WWII, and started up again right where he had left off.  How bizarre is that to start preaching fascism in the streets of the UK right after defeating the Nazis.  This book is about the mostly Jewish group that fought against Mosley's group.

The reviewer mentions a couple factors that played into anti-Semitism at the time, in particular the Jewish insurgency in Palestine.  He also mentions the parallel with modern antifas.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 26, 2019, 06:43:39 PM
Just finished QUANTUM by Patricia Cornwell and boy, is it bad!  Impossibly multi-skilled heroine (she makes Buckaroo Bonzai look like a tyro), dialogue that refuses to say anything for the entire book, digressions into car fix up tips and how NASA launches rockets (half the words in the book are digressions, and the reader starts skipping whole chunks of the book looking for the resumption of the story), a ridiculous plot premise (two adult identical twins cannot be told apart even though they have lived apart for year, except one has a tiny scar on one finger), incredibly stupid heroine decision-making, and, to top it off, the book just ends without resolving a single one of the dozens of "mysteries" it introduces. 

I got it for free so cannot complain about the money I spent on it, but I can complain about the time.  Stay far, far away.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on October 28, 2019, 05:43:51 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EH-dxjmXYAAm2JO?format=jpg&name=small)

Quote

@LRBbookshop

page 94 of the new le carré. surely this isn't a coincidence (read down the initial letters of each line)

:hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 30, 2019, 08:12:40 AM
Currently reading Furious Hours: Murder, Fraud and the Last Trial of Harper Lee by Casey Cep.

So far, it is very good - an interesting mix of true crime and social commentary. Haven't come to Harper Lee's involvement yet.

The point of the book is that famous author Lee, who wrote To Kill a Mockingbird, decides she will base her next book on the trial of a Black man accused of murdering a Black preacher during a funeral; the man clearly did the killing (there were 300 witnesses) but argued it was justified ... because the preacher was a serial killer who had gotten away with it for years. Lee attends the trial hearings and works for years on her book - but never publishes it. Furious Hours is an exploration of the case, its effect on Lee, and the state of the South at that time (the 1970s). 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on October 30, 2019, 09:17:45 AM
Who's Karla?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on October 30, 2019, 09:30:15 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 30, 2019, 09:17:45 AM
Who's Karla?

:ph34r:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 30, 2019, 10:08:51 AM
Heh the book I'm reading has a wonderful bit about the history of life insurance, with the leading character a fellow with the most Puritan name ever: "If-Christ-Had-Not-Died-for-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned Barebone".  :lol:

Also this wonderful line, about theological qualms over calculating death statistics: "Thus was the life insurance industry caught between a math problem and God."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 30, 2019, 10:21:20 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 30, 2019, 09:17:45 AM
Who's Karla?

Code name for LeCarre's fictional Soviet spymaster.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 30, 2019, 03:11:53 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 30, 2019, 09:17:45 AM
Who's Karla?

A famous Canadian Serial killer.  :P

Also (more appropriately) the antagonist of the Smiley series of books by John le Carre.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2019, 06:46:25 PM
Has anyone read the Bolitho series by Alexander Kent?  Thoughts?  I got a recommendation.

Same dude recommended Dewey Lampkin, but he must have gotten the spelling wrong because i'm getting nothing on google.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on November 10, 2019, 09:04:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2019, 06:46:25 PM
Has anyone read the Bolitho series by Alexander Kent?  Thoughts?  I got a recommendation.

Alexander Kent is a pen name for Douglas Reeman, so if you have read any Reeman you know what to expect from Kent:  good and exciting stories, but not a huge amount of character development.  Much better than Hornblower, and probably the best of the Napoleonic naval fiction.  The ones taking place in the Pacific were particularly good.  The later books (when Bolitho is an admiral and there's a lot more politic involved) are not as good, but still very readable.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2019, 09:07:10 PM
Thanks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on November 11, 2019, 08:35:17 AM
I read To Glory We Steer, one of that series, and I enjoyed it a lot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on November 18, 2019, 02:58:58 PM
Joan (or others), have you read Skidelsky's new book, Money and Government?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on November 18, 2019, 03:38:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 10, 2019, 09:04:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2019, 06:46:25 PM
Has anyone read the Bolitho series by Alexander Kent?  Thoughts?  I got a recommendation.

Alexander Kent is a pen name for Douglas Reeman, so if you have read any Reeman you know what to expect from Kent:  good and exciting stories, but not a huge amount of character development.  Much better than Hornblower, and probably the best of the Napoleonic naval fiction.  The ones taking place in the Pacific were particularly good.  The later books (when Bolitho is an admiral and there's a lot more politic involved) are not as good, but still very readable.

Is that a recommendation?  I hadn't heard of these stories before.

I adore O'brien's Aubrey/Maturin series, tried looking for something similar, tried reading Hornblower and found it just bad.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 18, 2019, 03:46:46 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on November 18, 2019, 02:58:58 PM
Joan (or others), have you read Skidelsky's new book, Money and Government?

Nope.
Been very busy at work last few months; all the spare reading time in recent weeks has gone to slogging through Piketty.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 18, 2019, 03:58:48 PM
Finished Max Hastings's All Hell Let Loose. It's a one volume WW2 history that, while covering the major beats and having special topical chapters (UK at Sea, European Air War, civilian victims/Holocaust), works with excerpts from letters, diaries, etc. to paint a picture of how common soldiers and civilians experienced the war. Would have preferred more coverage of the Pacific theater. He's quite keen on pointing out where the Brits didn't account themselves too well. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 18, 2019, 04:10:26 PM
Like Midway. :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 18, 2019, 04:50:09 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 18, 2019, 03:38:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 10, 2019, 09:04:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2019, 06:46:25 PM
Has anyone read the Bolitho series by Alexander Kent?  Thoughts?  I got a recommendation.

Alexander Kent is a pen name for Douglas Reeman, so if you have read any Reeman you know what to expect from Kent:  good and exciting stories, but not a huge amount of character development.  Much better than Hornblower, and probably the best of the Napoleonic naval fiction.  The ones taking place in the Pacific were particularly good.  The later books (when Bolitho is an admiral and there's a lot more politic involved) are not as good, but still very readable.

Is that a recommendation?  I hadn't heard of these stories before.

I adore O'brien's Aubrey/Maturin series, tried looking for something similar, tried reading Hornblower and found it just bad.

Have you read Melville?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on November 18, 2019, 04:54:34 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 18, 2019, 03:38:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 10, 2019, 09:04:44 PM
Alexander Kent is a pen name for Douglas Reeman, so if you have read any Reeman you know what to expect from Kent:  good and exciting stories, but not a huge amount of character development.  Much better than Hornblower, and probably the best of the Napoleonic naval fiction.  The ones taking place in the Pacific were particularly good.  The later books (when Bolitho is an admiral and there's a lot more politic involved) are not as good, but still very readable.

Is that a recommendation?  I hadn't heard of these stories before.

I adore O'brien's Aubrey/Maturin series, tried looking for something similar, tried reading Hornblower and found it just bad.

There is a lot more action than in O'Brien's series, so if what you enjoyed about O'Brien was his descriptions of everything, you might be disappointed by Kent.  If you liked the action sequences plus a plot twist per book, then you should like the Alexander Kent books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on November 18, 2019, 05:28:05 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 18, 2019, 04:54:34 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 18, 2019, 03:38:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 10, 2019, 09:04:44 PM
Alexander Kent is a pen name for Douglas Reeman, so if you have read any Reeman you know what to expect from Kent:  good and exciting stories, but not a huge amount of character development.  Much better than Hornblower, and probably the best of the Napoleonic naval fiction.  The ones taking place in the Pacific were particularly good.  The later books (when Bolitho is an admiral and there's a lot more politic involved) are not as good, but still very readable.

Is that a recommendation?  I hadn't heard of these stories before.

I adore O'brien's Aubrey/Maturin series, tried looking for something similar, tried reading Hornblower and found it just bad.

There is a lot more action than in O'Brien's series, so if what you enjoyed about O'Brien was his descriptions of everything, you might be disappointed by Kent.  If you liked the action sequences plus a plot twist per book, then you should like the Alexander Kent books.

O'brien's funny - sometimes he'll just entirely skip the action scenes, then have the characters describe what just happened to each other.  And I was just as entertained by his descriptions of domestic life in England or routine day to day life on ship, as by some swashbuckling action.

I'll check one out, see if I like it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 19, 2019, 11:06:33 PM
I borrowed the first Kent book from the public library and it's certainly not literature.  The writing style is more Hardy boys or Tom Swift.  I imagine he was writing for the boy's adventure story market in 1968.

If you haven't already started Beeb, turn around.  It's a trap!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on November 20, 2019, 12:09:36 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 19, 2019, 11:06:33 PM
I borrowed the first Kent book from the public library and it's certainly not literature.  The writing style is more Hardy boys or Tom Swift.  I imagine he was writing for the boy's adventure story market in 1968.

If you haven't already started Beeb, turn around.  It's a trap!

Asoka.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on November 20, 2019, 04:19:10 AM
The two Midshipman Bolitho books were, indeed, aimed at the YA market.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on November 20, 2019, 02:43:43 PM
I'm reading "Europe Between the Oceans" by Barry Cunliffe - 9000bc - 1000ad.  It's about the European continent and the progression of Euro groups, tribes, nations. One main theme is looking at the conditions - societal, resources, weather-  that caused European nations to become strong and dominant entities. I haven't gotten very far into it yet, but it somewhat complements Sapiens and Guns, Germs and Steel though it's focused on European societal, economic, cultural progression and rather than those factors of human kind on the whole.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on November 20, 2019, 04:08:13 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 19, 2019, 11:06:33 PM
I borrowed the first Kent book from the public library and it's certainly not literature.  The writing style is more Hardy boys or Tom Swift.  I imagine he was writing for the boy's adventure story market in 1968.

If you haven't already started Beeb, turn around.  It's a trap!

I remember devouring the Reeman books as a teenager. Not sure if I'd still enjoy them now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on November 30, 2019, 08:36:52 AM
Quote from: KRonn on November 20, 2019, 02:43:43 PM
I'm reading "Europe Between the Oceans" by Barry Cunliffe - 9000bc - 1000ad.  It's about the European continent and the progression of Euro groups, tribes, nations. One main theme is looking at the conditions - societal, resources, weather-  that caused European nations to become strong and dominant entities. I haven't gotten very far into it yet, but it somewhat complements Sapiens and Guns, Germs and Steel though it's focused on European societal, economic, cultural progression and rather than those factors of human kind on the whole.

Thanks KRonn, I shall definitely pick this up.

I attended a small talk he gave last summer, pretty much on this topic and he gave a excellent presentation.



Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on December 02, 2019, 09:25:37 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 30, 2019, 08:36:52 AM
Quote from: KRonn on November 20, 2019, 02:43:43 PM
I'm reading "Europe Between the Oceans" by Barry Cunliffe - 9000bc - 1000ad.  It's about the European continent and the progression of Euro groups, tribes, nations. One main theme is looking at the conditions - societal, resources, weather-  that caused European nations to become strong and dominant entities. I haven't gotten very far into it yet, but it somewhat complements Sapiens and Guns, Germs and Steel though it's focused on European societal, economic, cultural progression and rather than those factors of human kind on the whole.

Thanks KRonn, I shall definitely pick this up.

I attended a small talk he gave last summer, pretty much on this topic and he gave a excellent presentation.

Heh, interesting that you heard him speak on this subject. I've been reading several types of similar books, as I mentioned. They give interesting insight on how things developed over time, different historical foccii which I enjoy learning about.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on December 02, 2019, 09:48:55 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 02, 2019, 09:25:37 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 30, 2019, 08:36:52 AM
Quote from: KRonn on November 20, 2019, 02:43:43 PM
I'm reading "Europe Between the Oceans" by Barry Cunliffe - 9000bc - 1000ad.  It's about the European continent and the progression of Euro groups, tribes, nations. One main theme is looking at the conditions - societal, resources, weather-  that caused European nations to become strong and dominant entities. I haven't gotten very far into it yet, but it somewhat complements Sapiens and Guns, Germs and Steel though it's focused on European societal, economic, cultural progression and rather than those factors of human kind on the whole.

Thanks KRonn, I shall definitely pick this up.

I attended a small talk he gave last summer, pretty much on this topic and he gave a excellent presentation.

Heh, interesting that you heard him speak on this subject. I've been reading several types of similar books, as I mentioned. They give interesting insight on how things developed over time, different historical foccii which I enjoy learning about.

Yes, he was very interesting on various type of trade network and how those came and went over time; I should follow you example and crack on with some future reading.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on December 02, 2019, 11:50:57 PM
Finished reading "The Case against Reality" by Donald Hoffman.  It was... very strange.  The premised is that evolution selects for fitness rather than for truth and as a result the world around us is not anything like what we perceive.  That's not a new idea, people have been claiming that for thousands of years, though I never saw someone use Darwin to make this point.  Hoffman is very much in the "gene centered" view of evolution.  I don't know enough about biology to make much of a comment on the idea one way or another, I mostly know it's the view pushed by Dawkins in his "Self-Gene" book. (I've kind of mellowed out about Dawkins.  I don't have the wherewithal to care anymore) so it surprised me that at the end of the book delved into some kind of mysticism and called for science to reject Physicalism.  I half-expected this whole thing to be an argument ad absurdium regarding evolution, but no, he's sincere about it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 07, 2019, 05:36:38 PM
Flesh and Steel during the Great War: The Transformation of the French Army and the Invention of Modern Warfare, by Goya. A very interesting description of the development of the French army immediately before and during WW1. I cannot really judge the accuracy since I'm no expert on the French army in WW1 (good information in English is not at all as available as I'd like), but it seems to be fine. I would love to see similar books about all the major powers of WW1.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 07, 2019, 09:49:16 PM
I didn't know Goya was a time traveler.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 08, 2019, 02:27:41 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 07, 2019, 09:49:16 PM
I didn't know Goya was a time traveler.  :hmm:

It isn't really a factor in the book itself, I think it should be judged on its own merits.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 08, 2019, 10:16:48 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 07, 2019, 09:49:16 PM
I didn't know Goya was a time traveler.  :hmm:
If you're interested in that aspect of his career, I recommend the Spanish TV series the Ministry of Time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on December 08, 2019, 07:55:32 PM
Pulled a 11B4V and picked up a military history book: Collapse at Meuse-Argonne: The Failure of the Missouri-Kansas Division.  Many of the soldiers who fought in the battle were from my area and I found a copy of another book written by local news reporter about his experiences in that unit.  The 35th was one of the worst preforming divisions in the whole AEF.  Their first and only battle was at the Meuse-Argonne.  They lasted five days before they fled.  After finish I the book on the battle I'd like to try the read the book by the reporter.

Unfortunately the book is somewhat annoying.  Way too much use of the passive voice, too much use of "Could have", or "Might have".  "If X were here, they might have thought Z".  It's a minor gripe, but it is a bit annoying.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 08, 2019, 08:07:47 PM
Truman's division, I assume?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 08, 2019, 08:38:49 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 08, 2019, 07:55:32 PM
Pulled a 11B4V and picked up a military history book: Collapse at Meuse-Argonne: The Failure of the Missouri-Kansas Division.  Many of the soldiers who fought in the battle were from my area and I found a copy of another book written by local news reporter about his experiences in that unit.  The 35th was one of the worst preforming divisions in the whole AEF.  Their first and only battle was at the Meuse-Argonne.  They lasted five days before they fled.  After finish I the book on the battle I'd like to try the read the book by the reporter.

Unfortunately the book is somewhat annoying.  Way too much use of the passive voice, too much use of "Could have", or "Might have".  "If X were here, they might have thought Z".  It's a minor gripe, but it is a bit annoying.

So, what did the author think was the reason that the 35 performed so poorly compared to other AEF divisions?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 08, 2019, 09:13:08 PM
I propose the thesis that since Kansas and Missouri saw the worst intrastate  strife before and during the Civil War, men from those states had difficulty bonding with other men from their state.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on December 08, 2019, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 08, 2019, 09:13:08 PM
I propose the thesis that since Kansas and Missouri saw the worst intrastate  strife before and during the Civil War, men from those states had difficulty bonding with other men from their state.

I don't think the soldiers from Kansas and Missouri encountered each other much.  The 35th was a National Guard Division so individual regiments and brigades were made up of soldiers from one state or the other.  They were also very poorly trained, equipped and led.  Pretty much anything that could be wrong with a military unit was is evidence in the 35th.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 09, 2019, 06:24:00 PM
Returned the Bolitho to the library, and was considering checking out more, but found that Midshipman Bolitho is the only volume they possess.

So I picked up a couple Charles Portis titles: The Dog of the South and Gringos.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on December 09, 2019, 07:56:39 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 08, 2019, 08:07:47 PM
Truman's division, I assume?


Yes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on December 09, 2019, 08:09:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 08, 2019, 07:55:32 PM
Pulled a 11B4V and picked up a military history book: Collapse at Meuse-Argonne: The Failure of the Missouri-Kansas Division.  Many of the soldiers who fought in the battle were from my area and I found a copy of another book written by local news reporter about his experiences in that unit.  The 35th was one of the worst preforming divisions in the whole AEF.  Their first and only battle was at the Meuse-Argonne.  They lasted five days before they fled.  After finish I the book on the battle I'd like to try the read the book by the reporter.

Unfortunately the book is somewhat annoying.  Way too much use of the passive voice, too much use of "Could have", or "Might have".  "If X were here, they might have thought Z".  It's a minor gripe, but it is a bit annoying.

The last WW1 book I read was Finding the Post Battalion
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 16, 2019, 06:44:43 PM
Finished up Gringos by Charles Portis.

First, there's not a lot that tells you this by the author of True Grit.  The first person narrator is the strong and silent type.  I thought there were traces of Hemingway in the voice.

The story is about a colony of ex-pat Americans in Merida, Mexico who are involved in one way or another with the Mayan ruins.  A few grave robber types (the narrator is one), a few crackpot wanna be serious scholar types, an alien spaceport guy, and a few end of the Long Calendar end of time types.

I found the book readable but not mind-blowing at all.  Now I'm onto Portis' Dogs of the South.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 24, 2019, 06:21:16 PM
Dogs of the South was also readable but no great shakes. Same territory as Gringos, off beat Americans in Mesoamerica, this time Belize (still British Honduras in the book).

Just started Masters of Atlantis, also by Portis.  American soldier gets conned by grifter at the end of WWI, buys into story of secret society dedicated to preserving the wisdom of lost Atlantis.  He's in Malta right now,, near the start of the book.

Whereas True Grit featured a cast of hard-headed flawed heroes, these three feature nothing but slightly amusing flakes and weirdos.  Also tightly plotted adventure quest vs. circular pointless wandering.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 01, 2020, 02:48:59 AM
Sanderson finished the rough draft for the 4th Stormlight book! Should be out by the end of 2020
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 01, 2020, 02:50:43 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 01, 2020, 02:48:59 AM
Sanderson finished the rough draft for the 4th Stormlight book! Should be out by the end of 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9xLoivADqk
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 01, 2020, 07:28:41 AM
36 views on that.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 02, 2020, 07:21:07 AM
Just finished The Vietnam War: The Definitive Illustrated History, by DK. A nice enough easily digested overview, which includes relevant stuff outside a strict definition of the American war. Some things seemed strange to me near the end though: they say that the Purple Heart is awared for military merit, my understanding is that it is awarded for being wounded or killed. They also say that the Vietnam Memorial is inscribed with the name of every member of the US armed forces who served in the war, my understanding is that it's just the ones killed. Which makes me wonder what other weird stuff I've read in the book but didn't identify as strange because of ignorance.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on January 02, 2020, 09:41:27 PM
I'm reading "The German Girl" by Armando Lucas Correa. It's a fictional novel about a Jewish German girl and her family in WW2 and the stress and horrors they went through. The story alternates between her 1939 story and the story of her niece in 2014 New York and they're soon going to meet up.

Seems a pretty good portrayal of what so many Jewish people/families went through. So far just in the first part of the book but the girl winds up in Cuba, not sure how as yet but her father and other Jewish friends are working on getting their families out of Germany.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 07, 2020, 02:17:53 PM
I reread Einstein's Relativity and Other Essays.  What struck me this time is that The Special Theory of Relativity is explained with some basic algebra (mostly in order to explain the Lorentz Transformation) while the General Theory is explained conceptually (starting with the thought experiment involving aliens pulling a man in a box  :area52:.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 13, 2020, 03:02:30 PM
I read Richard Rhodes "The Making of the Atomic Bomb;" it's an engaging book and one that gives a fairly good, basic, introduction to atomic theory.  It begins at the 19th century with the discovery of radiation and ends with Nagasaki (with an epilogue that covers the development of the Hydrogen bomb.)

Rhodes provides a number of anecdotes along the way.  I learned that the name "Fat man" was chosen to throw off German agents.  There was a dummy bomb (for testing purposes) called "Thin Man", and the US hoped that the Germans would think they were referring Churchill and Roosevelt when they talked about Fat Man and Thin Man respectively.

I think someone had asked if Hitler was opposed to atomic weapons when we were discussing "The Man in the High Castle."  Rhodes claims that Hitler really didn't understand the concept and thought there was a good chance that an atomic bomb would ignite either the ocean or the atmosphere.  For this reason the German bomb program was underfunded.  The allies, though, were convinced that the Germans were just about to get the bomb.  Everything was seen as proof of that.  Heisenberg had given Niels Bohr the designs for a heavy water reactor.  When Bohr fled to the US and showed it to the US scientists, they were convinced that was deception and the Germans were indeed using graphite as a moderator.  It wouldn't be until France had been liberated that the Allies discovered how far behind the Germans were.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 13, 2020, 03:07:07 PM
Why were the Allies so tense in WW2?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 20, 2020, 05:03:47 PM
I read The Chivalric Folk Tradition in Sicily: A History of Storytelling, Puppetry, Painted Carts and Other Arts by Marcella Croce.

It starts by examining storytelling and some of the local festivals and the storytelling tradition; both of which go back to the middle ages.  (The author speculates that both Ariosto and Boiardo were influenced by storytellers.)  One particularly weird festival takes place during Carnivale in Mezzojuso; where a play with a one of a kind plot is put on.  The Master of the Field loves the Queen of Mezzojuso and plots ways to scale the castle wall, defeat the king and carry her off.  Meanwhile wizards are digging at the wall of the castle looking for treasure.  Meanwhile the Saracens are besieging the castle.  Fortunately Garibaldi and the red shirts show up, defeat the Saracens, the wizards find their treasure (a chamber pot filled with spaghetti) and the Master of the Field is able to defeat the king and win the love of the queen.

In the nineteenth century puppetry became the dominant folk art form and a long cycle of puppet shows around Charlemagne was developed to be shown night after night.  This was an art form for adults and (this being Sicily) adult men, (except for a few one shot shows about lives of the saints which were considered acceptable for women.)  The art form reached its height at the end of the nineteenth century, but did continue on until the emergence of television in the 1960s.  It was revived as a heritage art mostly for tourists about a decade later.  (I saw a Charlemagne show at the International Museum of Puppetry in Palermo.)

The Sicilians are a peculiar breed.  In one of the villages outside of Palermo once saw a man honking his horn in irritation at a passing train; as though that would make it go faster.  The author interviewed a number of puppet masters, one said that one night he was beset by a mob who demanded he burn Ganelon (the traitor puppet.)  The death of Orlando was among the most popular performances (they puppet theater owners could charge double for that show); but Orlando isn't a favorite among the Sicilians, they think he's a bit dumb.  Their favorite puppet is Rinaldo, and his death was always the least attended show.

The author then goes on to describe the various arts that supported puppet theater; posters, puppet making and the painted carts for which Sicily is famous.  The carts only emerged in the 19th century when Sicily got its first roads.  This was an art form that largely disappeared in the 1960s when some amount of prosperity made the automobile affordable.  These carts were sometimes given as gifts; George Marshall was given one as was General Patton.  Patton's one has painted scenes of American GIs storming the Sicilian beaches, fighting off Nazis, Fascists and a green dragon.

I own a wonderfully politically incorrect Saracen puppet that I bought from a puppet maker in Palermo.  :cool:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 20, 2020, 05:27:10 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 20, 2020, 05:03:47 PM
Fortunately Garibaldi and the red shirts show up, defeat the Saracens, the wizards find their treasure (a chamber pot filled with spaghetti) and the Master of the Field is able to defeat the king and win the love of the queen.

Nobody expects time-traveling Garibaldi!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 20, 2020, 05:29:20 PM
[spoiler]The red shirts get killed.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 21, 2020, 06:10:31 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 20, 2020, 05:27:10 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 20, 2020, 05:03:47 PM
Fortunately Garibaldi and the red shirts show up, defeat the Saracens, the wizards find their treasure (a chamber pot filled with spaghetti) and the Master of the Field is able to defeat the king and win the love of the queen.

Nobody expects time-traveling Garibaldi!

Let alone a B5/Star Trek mashup.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 02, 2020, 10:03:24 PM
Recommend me some books on the hundred year war and/or the black death
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on February 02, 2020, 10:05:00 PM
Just read Sumption.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 02, 2020, 10:10:00 PM
A Distant Mirror
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on February 03, 2020, 12:11:32 AM
Finished What Hath God Wrought: The Transformation of America, 1815-1848. Quite a solid narrative history of this era.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 03, 2020, 01:04:48 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 02, 2020, 10:10:00 PM
A Distant Mirror


Eh...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 03, 2020, 05:01:38 PM
Reading a Biography on Queen Nzinga of Ndongo.  For years I've looked an accessible history of 17th Century Angola.  This probably the best I will ever do.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: dps on February 03, 2020, 05:55:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2020, 01:04:48 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 02, 2020, 10:10:00 PM
A Distant Mirror


Eh...

Not a Tuchman fan?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 03, 2020, 05:56:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2020, 05:01:38 PM
  For years I've looked an accessible history of 17th Century Angola. 

Only on Languish...   :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 03, 2020, 06:03:02 PM
Quote from: dps on February 03, 2020, 05:55:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2020, 01:04:48 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 02, 2020, 10:10:00 PM
A Distant Mirror


Eh...

Not a Tuchman fan?


She's a very talented wordsmith, and has a knack for making historical characters come alive.  The Distant Mirror tries to compare 14th century Western Europe to 1960's America.  That leaves a lot to be desired.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 06:05:49 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2020, 06:03:02 PM
She's a very talented wordsmith, and has a knack for making historical characters come alive.  The Distant Mirror tries to compare 14th century Western Europe to 1960's America.  That leaves a lot to be desired.

I thought that was March of Folly (Pelopenesian War) in relation to US in Vietnam.  Never heard that about Distant Mirror and 1960s.  Don't see how it makes any sense.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: dps on February 03, 2020, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 06:05:49 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2020, 06:03:02 PM
She's a very talented wordsmith, and has a knack for making historical characters come alive.  The Distant Mirror tries to compare 14th century Western Europe to 1960's America.  That leaves a lot to be desired.

I thought that was March of Folly (Pelopenesian War) in relation to US in Vietnam.  Never heard that about Distant Mirror and 1960s.  Don't see how it makes any sense.

I think you're correct, but it's been a long time since I read A Distant Mirror, and I haven't read March of Folly at all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 11:10:29 PM
I just read a review of March of Folly.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 03, 2020, 11:41:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 06:05:49 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2020, 06:03:02 PM
She's a very talented wordsmith, and has a knack for making historical characters come alive.  The Distant Mirror tries to compare 14th century Western Europe to 1960's America.  That leaves a lot to be desired.

I thought that was March of Folly (Pelopenesian War) in relation to US in Vietnam.  Never heard that about Distant Mirror and 1960s.  Don't see how it makes any sense.


Not so much the Vietnam war but the social unrest at the time.  The truth is that trying to create any parallels between modern and pre-modern societies is pretty iffy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 15, 2020, 05:26:40 AM
Finished Sengoku Jidai: Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, and Ieyasu: Three Unifiers of Japan, by Chaplin. Pretty nice thick and detailed book on the three. I spotted a few mistakes but overall seems to be reasonably OK factwise (but it's not written by a "real" historian). I would love to see more general books in English about this era (among other things about stuff that isn't directly related to the three main guys, things were going on all over), but so many books in English are limited to arms or armor or the most famous campaigns.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 15, 2020, 06:27:38 AM
Charlie?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 15, 2020, 06:59:25 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 15, 2020, 06:27:38 AM
Charlie?

No. :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 15, 2020, 07:05:23 PM
I've been reading Sean B. Carroll's "Brave Genius" a biography of Jacques Monad and Albert Camus.  I've just gotten to the fall of France, and the author is covering life during the first months of occupation.  He quotes some speeches of Winston Churchill; which I find myself reading in the Churchill voice.  He quotes a French language speech Churchill did; and I found myself wonder "Well how would that sound?"  As it turns out, not that different from his English language voice. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiJePZ_gAbY)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 15, 2020, 07:10:47 PM
This is a bit of a trend. I know there are Brits who can speak foreign languages convincingly. But.....well.... :blush:

Same goes for Blair speaking French:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c3DWN_EaLY

Or the Queen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxQpdHz7t2o
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on February 15, 2020, 09:53:50 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 15, 2020, 07:05:23 PM
I've been reading Sean B. Carroll's "Brave Genius" a biography of Jacques Monad and Albert Camus.  I've just gotten to the fall of France, and the author is covering life during the first months of occupation.  He quotes some speeches of Winston Churchill; which I find myself reading in the Churchill voice.  He quotes a French language speech Churchill did; and I found myself wonder "Well how would that sound?"  As it turns out, not that different from his English language voice. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiJePZ_gAbY)

He actually sounds much better in French to an American ear.  His wartime speeches read really well, but if you listen to his delivery, the way he drops his voice at the end of every sentence sounds really boring to the American ear.  He sounds like even he is bored with and unconvinced by what he is saying.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 21, 2020, 07:31:13 PM
First two volumes of Steven Kotkin's biography of Stalin (the third and final volume is out later this year).

The first book is very good and worth reading for the first few hundred pages in which Stalin barely appears. The central argument running through the books is that Stalin isn't just a megalomaniac or a bureaucrat, uninterested in ideology but was actually driven hugely by his ideological analysis. It also gives an interesting picture on the early years of the Soviet state. In many ways in the early years Stalin is a fairly sympathetic part of the Soviet state - certainly in comparison with Lenin - as the outsider who actually understands and knows how to work with the multi-national character of the Russian Empire.

The second book shows the link between that domestic ideology and Stalin's foreign policy - especially in Spain. But is also excellent on the Terror and has a convincing argument on Stalin's views in the run-up to war. It's a more challenging period for a biographyer because at this stage Stalin doesn't move anywhere near as much, so the entire biographical narrative is in his office, his dacha and occasionally down in Sochi for health treatments. So it's like a collage of the different reports and documents and testimonies that crossed Stalin's desk. It's very striking on the famine - he rejects the idea that this was a "Ukrainian" famine, saying it was a Soviet famine and pointing out the really grim death figures in Kazakhstan and the Siberian near east in particularly which were worse hit than even Ukraine (I think those regions still haven't recovered to pre-famine levels of agriculture, maintly pastoral).

There's a good-ish reason for why Stalin decided to initiate the Terror but it's still not totally enough for me, though I think the comparison with the other totatlitarians is instructive in that this may be another example of something that required the Marxist-Leninist ideological grounding to happen. This could be the biggest flaw - and probably the biggest difficulty with doing a Stalin biography - he wrote a lot and left a lot of documentary evidence but the shift from talented auto-didact running a dictatorship, but not an obvious sociopath around him to someone who launches a purge of the people closest to him and hundreds of thousands of others is really difficult to explain. Kotkin refers to Stalin having an increasingly dark side in his comments etc in the late 20s which then just expands over the 30s, but isn't really able to identify possible reasons for that. Beyond, I suppose the cliche about absolute power.

The foreign policy section is fascinating jumping from China to Spain, the obsession with Trotsky and with British imperialism, to dealings with Nazi Germany. Though there are links to the domestic in general Stalin comes across as primarily crafty and fairly realist but he makes two misjudgments one about British intentions due to his deep suspicion of British imperialism and British conduct in the First World War, and he misreads Hitler as a realist like him partly because of the 1939 pact but also because of German conduct in executing it.

Generally really interesting though and I will get the final volume.

A rather different tone was China Mieville's Perdido Street Station which is sort of steampunk fantasy (with interesting politics as you'd expect from a Trotskyite activist :lol:). It's set in a semi-industrial city sort-of police state teeming with multiple different races. It starts with two semi-linked narratives of an impoverished renegade human scientist living in a slumish bit of town and his girlfriend, a khepri (human body, sort-of a dung beetle for a head) artist from the more bohemian bit of town. But then kind of spills out into other things - a malfunctioning cleaning robot, a visit to the embassy from Hell, the arrival of a new drug in town, an inter-species dockers strike and reaction by the militia. As you'd expect from a Trot the story sort of judders through crisis and transition.

I'd only read Mieville's non-fiction before (October his history of the Russian Revolution is a great, sympathetic version that, again, mainly moves through these kinetic crises as seen from the street) and there are similarities but he's really able to tell a story and has incredible narrative drive - it's like a train.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 07:37:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2020, 05:01:38 PM
Reading a Biography on Queen Nzinga of Ndongo.  For years I've looked an accessible history of 17th Century Angola.  This probably the best I will ever do.


Okay, so it turns out that everyone in Angola was a sociopath.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 22, 2020, 07:31:12 AM
Finished Adrian Tchaikovsky's "Children of Time," winner of the "30th Arthur C. Clarke Award" in 2016.

About 450 pages.

Enjoyed this one a lot, though I assume it won't appeal to everyone. The book opens with ambitious geneticist Avrana Kern getting ready to seed a terraformed planet with monkeys who are going to be uplifted with a nano-virus - an ambitious project for mankind who are trying to gain a foothold in the galaxy. The plan is to drop them off, then go into stasis and be re-awakened when the uplifted primates are able to reply to the mathematical tests Kern's habitat broadcasts at the planet.

However, the project is sabotaged, the monkeys burn on entry, and Dr Kern barely manages to get into the stasis pod and uploads her consciousness to the habitat's AI computer. Earth descends into war that results in an ice age, with all solar colonies of mankind being destroyed in a mix of conventional, NBC, and electronic weapons. A scavenger culture on Earth survives, barely. However, when the ice thaws, they realize that Earth has become so toxic that human life won't be possible anymore. So they send out ark ships to where they think the Old Empire had colonies.

The evolutionary nano-virus has meanwhile found a new target on the terraformed planet. While the scientists made sure it would not affect other mammals, it finds fertile ground among other Earth species seeded onto the world - primarily the spider Portia Labiata (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portia_labiata), and - to lesser extent - some insect races.

The book primarily charts the ascent of the spiders and their society, developing their own alien technology and civilization on the one side, and on the other side the events on a human ark ship as its crew tries to keep the vessel intact over millennia (dropping in and out of stasis) while trying to find a new home for half a million humans; both arcs inevitably intersect.

The scale of the spider civilization's narrative calls to mind Asimov's Foundation series and its historic scope, while the human story, primarily told through the observations of a a classicist specialized in the pre-apocalypse Old Empire reminded me of Forever War, as every time he is woken from cold sleep he finds the situation on the ship changed, first in minor ways, and eventually quite drastically.

Now reading Children of Ruin, set in the same universe. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 22, 2020, 06:35:58 PM
That sounds interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 22, 2020, 06:58:28 PM
Aye.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 22, 2020, 09:22:18 PM
They weaponized NBC? - You BASTARDS!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on March 04, 2020, 03:43:46 PM
I've been reviewing a college level introductory physics book.  One of the problems involved converting furlongs per fortnight to mm/s.  (1 furlong per fortnight is .17 mm/s if anyone cares.)  I then discovered there's an entire system (perpetuated by computer scientist, as if you couldn't have guessed) with base units Fortnight, Furlong and Firkin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFF_system)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2020, 11:55:40 PM
Just read a long review of T. Piketty's Capital and Ideology.

Here's the key excerpt from the review.

"The notion that people have an inviolable natural right [to] strictly private property cannot withstand analysis, since the accumulation of wealth is always the fruit of a social process, which depends, among other things, on publlic infrastructures...the social division of labor, and the knowledge accumulated by humanity over centuries.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 11, 2020, 01:06:44 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2020, 11:55:40 PM
Just read a long review of T. Piketty's Capital and Ideology.

Here's the key excerpt from the review.

"The notion that people have an inviolable natural right [to] strictly private property cannot withstand analysis, since the accumulation of wealth is always the fruit of a social process, which depends, among other things, on publlic infrastructures...the social division of labor, and the knowledge accumulated by humanity over centuries.

Is that Piketty's view or the reviewer's view?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 11, 2020, 01:11:59 AM
The reviewer summarizing Piketty's view.  Some of that line was quotes within quotes but I couldn't be arsed to type all that shit in.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 11, 2020, 01:19:05 AM
The concept of natural rights is weird to me. I wouldn't call the quoted argument a strawman since I'm sure people have argued for natural rights regarding strictly private property, but to me the argument misses the point. I don't have a problem with the government (excessively) taking strictly private property because it violates a natural right, I have a problem with it because it is destructive. Though in fairness to Piketty I assume he argues in the book that it isn't destructive.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 11, 2020, 01:36:31 AM
I don't think Piketty was using natural right in the gun nut sense of the word, just his way of tagging the prevailing view of private property IMO.

Here's exec summary of his prescriptions.

Employees should have a decisive say in the management of their firms
Public services, especially education, should be vastly enhanced.
Every youngster would get a lump sum
Wealth tax of up to 90%
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 11, 2020, 02:01:58 AM
For clarity: my problem with the concept of natural rights is with the mainstream idea of natural rights, not a gun nut version.

His prescriptions are a recipe for disaster. But that's what many people want.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: dps on March 11, 2020, 08:42:29 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 11, 2020, 01:36:31 AM

Here's exec summary of his prescriptions.

Employees should have a decisive say in the management of their firms
Public services, especially education, should be vastly enhanced.
Every youngster would get a lump sum
Wealth tax of up to 90%

No;  OK as far as education is concerned, but I'd want more details;  huh?; , and no.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 11, 2020, 09:03:10 AM
The review by the Nytimes may be more accurate than Yi's summary of a summary

For Piketty, rising inequality is at root a political phenomenon. The social-democratic framework that made Western societies relatively equal for a couple of generations after World War II, he argues, was dismantled, not out of necessity, but because of the rise of a "neo-proprietarian" ideology. Indeed, this is a view shared by many, though not all, economists. These days, attributing inequality mainly to the ineluctable forces of technology and globalization is out of fashion, and there is much more emphasis on factors like the decline of unions, which has a lot to do with political decisions
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 11, 2020, 10:28:55 AM
I am still in the middle of the book.  While Piketty critiques what he calls "proprietarist" ideology, he also takes the claims seriously and states that it is a coherent philosophical system. The argument is more nuanced then Yi's review's excerpt would suggest.  Piketty's empirical analysis - in this book as in his prior book, does argue that under such a ideological regime, there is a strong tendency to ever increasing concentration of wealth and income - I just wrapped up the part where he analyzed France between the Revolution and WW1. He isn't approaching the problem dogmatically as the review would suggest but pragmatically in the sense of analyzing empirical and observable consequences of different political and institutional pathways.

The reviews of his last book were so ax grindy I would tend not to put much stock in the ones coming out now.  You just have to slog through the text and judge for oneself.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 11, 2020, 12:05:18 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 11, 2020, 10:28:55 AM
I am still in the middle of the book.  While Piketty critiques what he calls "proprietarist" ideology, he also takes the claims seriously and states that it is a coherent philosophical system. The argument is more nuanced then Yi's review's excerpt would suggest.  Piketty's empirical analysis - in this book as in his prior book, does argue that under such a ideological regime, there is a strong tendency to ever increasing concentration of wealth and income - I just wrapped up the part where he analyzed France between the Revolution and WW1. He isn't approaching the problem dogmatically as the review would suggest but pragmatically in the sense of analyzing empirical and observable consequences of different political and institutional pathways.

The reviews of his last book were so ax grindy I would tend not to put much stock in the ones coming out now.  You just have to slog through the text and judge for oneself.

Please post your take on the book when you've finished it. There's no way I'll ever bother reading it myself and I trust your judgment over many others'. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 11, 2020, 04:32:52 PM
Children of Time is a great book, really well paced and a number of interesting ideas. Not read the follow up yet. I've read quite a few of his, generally very decent for such a prolific writer (e seems to knock out 3 or 4 novels a year)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on March 30, 2020, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 15, 2020, 07:05:23 PM
I've been reading Sean B. Carroll's "Brave Genius" a biography of Jacques Monod and Albert Camus.  I've just gotten to the fall of France, and the author is covering life during the first months of occupation.  He quotes some speeches of Winston Churchill; which I find myself reading in the Churchill voice.  He quotes a French language speech Churchill did; and I found myself wonder "Well how would that sound?"  As it turns out, not that different from his English language voice. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiJePZ_gAbY)

I finished this; I don't think the dual biography worked.  While they were friends; the only time Monod and Camus worked together was when Camus became critical of Stalinism; which was the same period when Lysenko's views became the doctrine of the Comintern (they had been the official views of the Soviet Union since 1940) which included a number of French scientists.  Monod was able to help Camus further his anti-Stalinist case.  Other than that it was two biographies messily glued together.  Carroll is a Microbiologist, and might have been better off just writing a Monod biography; as he goes into much greater depth on the story of Monod's discovery of the mechanisms of inheritance in bacteria.  The science is fairly advanced as well; (at least it's far beyond my knowledge of biology.)

Monod had helped smuggle some scientists out of Hungary after the Seven Days of Freedom; and the author went into some detail about them.  Prior to de-Stalinization university education in Hungary included a heavy dose of Soviet propaganda.  So much so that when one of the scientists taught that Mendeleev discovered the periodic table her students demanded to know which western scientist had really discovered it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 30, 2020, 02:46:41 PM
Finished Thomas F. Madden's history of the city of Venice. Very good read, 4/5, but also rather light on detail since it's trying to cover the entire scope of the city in ~400 pages.

Anyone have any recommendations for something more precise about, say, Medieval Venice?

Either way, up next is Desmon Seward's biography of Henry IV of France so I can start my deep dive on the French Wars of Religion.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 30, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 30, 2020, 02:46:41 PM
Finished Thomas F. Madden's history of the city of Venice. Very good read, 4/5, but also rather light on detail since it's trying to cover the entire scope of the city in ~400 pages.

Anyone have any recommendations for something more precise about, say, Medieval Venice?

Either way, up next is Desmon Seward's biography of Henry IV of France so I can start my deep dive on the French Wars of Religion.

:nerd:

But seriously, I too would like to hear about good books on medieval Venice.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on March 30, 2020, 03:05:35 PM
John Julius Norwich did a long history of Venice. Very good but may not be specific enough for you.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 30, 2020, 03:10:16 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 30, 2020, 02:46:41 PM
Finished Thomas F. Madden's history of the city of Venice. Very good read, 4/5, but also rather light on detail since it's trying to cover the entire scope of the city in ~400 pages.

Not middle ages, but Roger Crowley's City of Fortune covers key moments in its history from the 4th Crusade through its heyday into the decline. As usual, Crowley is eminently readable (I also recommend his Empires of the Sea about the Christian-Muslim rivalry in the Mediterranean in the 16th century, with a heavy focus on the Siege of Malta, and Conquerors about the early forays of the Portuguese into the Indian Ocean).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on March 30, 2020, 03:22:24 PM
Quote from: Gups on March 30, 2020, 03:05:35 PM
John Julius Norwich did a long history of Venice. Very good but may not be specific enough for you.

I bought that (in Venice :nerd:) and read it.  Thought it was very good, but again it's a general history of its entire history, from founding to (IIRC) either the fall to Napoleon, or the formation of Italy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 30, 2020, 03:29:45 PM
There is no good volume only on Venice's medieval period for the general public, AFAICT. Robert C. Davis' work on the Arsenal is a classic. Claire Judde de Larivière wrote a study of its trading networks, but it hasn't been translated yet. Still, maybe some of you would be interested in her "Revolt of the Snowballs", which is about a curious episode of medieval Venice's history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 30, 2020, 03:35:38 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 30, 2020, 03:10:16 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 30, 2020, 02:46:41 PM
Finished Thomas F. Madden's history of the city of Venice. Very good read, 4/5, but also rather light on detail since it's trying to cover the entire scope of the city in ~400 pages.

Not middle ages, but Roger Crowley's City of Fortune covers key moments in its history from the 4th Crusade through its heyday into the decline. As usual, Crowley is eminently readable (I also recommend his Empires of the Sea about the Christian-Muslim rivalry in the Mediterranean in the 16th century, with a heavy focus on the Siege of Malta, and Conquerors about the early forays of the Portuguese into the Indian Ocean).

Already have his Empires of the Sea, so I'll consider this a good recommendation. That's the era I'm mostly looking for, so it works. :cheers:

Thanks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 30, 2020, 03:36:03 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 30, 2020, 03:29:45 PM
Claire Judde de Larivière wrote a study of its trading networks, but it hasn't been translated yet.

:cry:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on March 30, 2020, 03:43:07 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 30, 2020, 03:22:24 PM
Quote from: Gups on March 30, 2020, 03:05:35 PM
John Julius Norwich did a long history of Venice. Very good but may not be specific enough for you.

I bought that (in Venice :nerd:) and read it.  Thought it was very good, but again it's a general history of its entire history, from founding to (IIRC) either the fall to Napoleon, or the formation of Italy.

It is through Napoleon. I mean you could probably write a whole book just on the quixotic attempt to restore the Republic in 1848 alone. I can see why he stopped there.

Great book BTW.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on March 30, 2020, 04:22:07 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 30, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 30, 2020, 02:46:41 PM
Finished Thomas F. Madden's history of the city of Venice. Very good read, 4/5, but also rather light on detail since it's trying to cover the entire scope of the city in ~400 pages.

Anyone have any recommendations for something more precise about, say, Medieval Venice?

Either way, up next is Desmon Seward's biography of Henry IV of France so I can start my deep dive on the French Wars of Religion.

:nerd:

But seriously, I too would like to hear about good books on medieval Venice.

This will appear in August:
https://www.crcpress.com/Early-Medieval-Venice-Cultural-Memory-and-History/Berto/p/book/9780367900564

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 30, 2020, 05:00:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 30, 2020, 03:43:07 PM
It is through Napoleon. I mean you could probably write a whole book just on the quixotic attempt to restore the Republic in 1848 alone. I can see why he stopped there.

Yeah, it's unsurprising to see than Madden lost steam after 1848 as well. There's maybe 30 pages on everything from there until the modern day (to 2010, roughly) in his work.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on March 30, 2020, 05:30:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 30, 2020, 03:43:07 PM
I mean you could probably write a whole book just on the quixotic attempt to restore the Republic in 1848 alone. .

It's called The Siege of Venice and it's surprisingly interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 30, 2020, 05:56:55 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 30, 2020, 05:00:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 30, 2020, 03:43:07 PM
It is through Napoleon. I mean you could probably write a whole book just on the quixotic attempt to restore the Republic in 1848 alone. I can see why he stopped there.

Yeah, it's unsurprising to see than Madden lost steam after 1848 as well. 

It's like a curse or something.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on March 30, 2020, 06:22:12 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 30, 2020, 05:56:55 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 30, 2020, 05:00:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 30, 2020, 03:43:07 PM
It is through Napoleon. I mean you could probably write a whole book just on the quixotic attempt to restore the Republic in 1848 alone. I can see why he stopped there.

Yeah, it's unsurprising to see than Madden lost steam after 1848 as well. 

It's like a curse or something.

:lol:

You've gone native on us Oex.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 30, 2020, 09:08:09 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 30, 2020, 03:29:45 PM
Claire Judde de Larivière wrote a study of its trading networks, but it hasn't been translated yet.

Available on amazon for a trifling $152
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 30, 2020, 09:42:26 PM
Yup, that's Brill for you.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 31, 2020, 12:26:33 AM
There used to be a sprawling French bookstore at Rockefeller Center - nice storefront and then a big section of books in the basement.  It was there for decades.  I always wondered how they could pay the rent.  Ultimately it turned out they couldn't.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on April 07, 2020, 02:12:03 PM
Reading Ernie Pyle's "This is Your War".  Pyle was a columnist who wrote human interest stories stories about soldiers during the Second World War.  The book is a compilation of a bunch of his columns during the African Campaign.  It is very much "Ra Ra, our boys are doing great", but still has value in how people of the time saw the war and to a lesser degree how the solider's saw it.  Quite a lot of the work concerns soldiers in the rear echelons such as military police, army convoys, mechanics, and medical professionals.  Their experiences are not recorded as often as front line soldiers, so it's interesting to know how they lived and what they thought.  The books is kinda like war stories you would hear from your grandparents and the like. Not the stories of horror and blood and shameful acts but the stories of pranks played on officers, of friends they made, and of strange incidents.  The mundane stories that old people tell children and look rosier 50 years after the events.  Of course not all the stories were happy, my great uncle was in the navy and he got assigned a job coaxing Japanese die hard in caves to surrender using a bullhorn, a flamethrower and a lot of gasoline, but I think they preferred to tell the happier stories, at least to children.  Now most of those people are gone and memory of the war is vanishing...

One of the more remarkable stories Pyle tells is about bomber that was thought lost but managed limp back with only two engines working and damaged electronic and hydraulic systems.  I was curious what happened to the crew and now with the power of the internet I can satisfy that curiosity.  The pilot survived the war, and stayed in the military.  He retired a Lt. Col in 1969 and died eight years ago.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 07, 2020, 02:20:27 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 07, 2020, 02:12:03 PMQuite a lot of the work concerns soldiers in the rear echelons such as military police, army convoys, mechanics, and medical professionals.  Their experiences are not recorded as often as front line soldiers, so it's interesting to know how they lived and what they thought.

Thanks for sharing this title, Raz. I agree that the non-frontline soldier experiences don't feature frequently in documentaries or books about war, despite often making up the larger part of the army. FP had an article on that: https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/08/08/fog-of-war/
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 10, 2020, 03:00:34 AM
I started on The Italian Wars, Vol 1: The Expedition of Charles VIII into Italy and the Battle of Fornovo, 1495, by Predonzani and Alberici. It's a new book in the Helion series From Retinue to Regiment. It is written originally in Italian but unfortunately the translator (another Italian) isn't (I suspect) a "real" professional translator. The language is a bizarre version of English that makes reading a chore, and there are factual errors that may or may not be translation errors. I had to quit after a few pages. If the publisher can't be bothered to have a native speaker look over the text then it's hard for me as a lowly reader to summon the will to give a fuck. Too bad about the language, I'm interested in the subject.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on April 10, 2020, 08:01:33 AM
 :( You're not the only one interested in the subject. Shame about the translation. Please post if you find something else worthwhile in English on the subject.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on April 11, 2020, 06:01:00 AM
Prague Winter, Madeleine Albright's biography of her youth and country during the 30s and 40s. Had a hard time with it, especially the wartime parts seemed bland and superficial, but I'm glad I stuck with it. Very strong finish, the 1945-1948 period is fascinating and her own convictions start coming out. They don't make politicians like that anymore.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 17, 2020, 10:25:08 AM
Finished Richard III and the Battle of Bosworth, by Mike Ingram. Part of Helion's From Retinue to Regiment series. A very nice presentation of (AFAICT) what is known today about the subject. The book gives a lot of background, going back to Edward III, and also presents general military matters of the era. Only 280 pages in total, so bite-sized but still feels fairly complete.

One thing that I still don't feel sure about is the interpretation of the way battles (as in troop contingents/formations) worked on the WotR battlefield. I understand that different authors have different views on this. Having a battle covering the entire front seems to me as if it would lead to C&C problems, an interpretation of center and wings seems more intuitive to me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on April 17, 2020, 10:36:07 AM
Brain, have you read Goodwin's Fatal Colours yet? It covers Towton in large detail, apparently (I haven't read it yet, though it's on my list), and I'd be curious for a comparison between that and Ingram's work.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 17, 2020, 10:41:49 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 17, 2020, 10:36:07 AM
Brain, have you read Goodwin's Fatal Colours yet? It covers Towton in large detail, apparently (I haven't read it yet, though it's on my list), and I'd be curious for a comparison between that and Ingram's work.

I have, and it's in my library. It's been some years since I read it so I'll have to refresh my memory to answer.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 10, 2020, 05:16:19 AM
Neat.  :)

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/09/the-real-lord-of-the-flies-what-happened-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months?CMP=share_btn_tw

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 10, 2020, 10:14:57 AM
Does anyone have any good readable accounts of the 1971 war over Bangladesh? It amazes me that this isn't better known about in the West.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 10, 2020, 10:51:00 AM
It's American focused but I've heard good things about "The Blood Telegram: Nixon, Kissinger, and a Forgotten Genocide".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 15, 2020, 09:43:34 AM
Does anyone have any recommendations for a history of Medieval Spain?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 15, 2020, 09:46:23 AM
Guille el Cid?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 15, 2020, 10:23:05 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 15, 2020, 09:43:34 AM
Does anyone have any recommendations for a history of Medieval Spain?

https://www.amazon.com/History-Medieval-Spain-Cornell-Paperbacks/dp/0801492645

Definitive book here. No idea if it's been surpassed by recent scholarship, but it's a great read.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on May 15, 2020, 10:26:43 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 10, 2020, 10:14:57 AM
Does anyone have any good readable accounts of the 1971 war over Bangladesh? It amazes me that this isn't better known about in the West.

I've not read it myself but this is meant to be good

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/mar/01/of-blood-and-fire-jahanara-imam-review

There is also history books by Srinath Raghavan and Wilem can Schneidal.

There are a lot of fictional accounts of the war. I'd recommend the reviewer Phillip Hensher's "The Friendly Ones".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 15, 2020, 11:33:32 AM
I managed to accidentally buy a book written in medieval Italian.  Pratica della mercatura.  I read a sample of it on my Kindle, and found that the main text is in Italian.  The forward is in English and the notes are in English but not the text.  I tried to remove it from my Kindle and accidentally bought instead.  I couldn't find a way to get a refund for this particular book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 15, 2020, 11:35:57 AM
Sure. You fell and landed on Pratica della mercatura.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 15, 2020, 11:40:52 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 15, 2020, 11:33:32 AM
I managed to accidentally buy a book written in medieval Italian.  Pratica della mercatura.  I read a sample of it on my Kindle, and found that the main text is in Italian.  The forward is in English and the notes are in English but not the text.  I tried to remove it from my Kindle and accidentally bought instead.  I couldn't find a way to get a refund for this particular book.

Well the Fates have spoken.  You know what you must do know.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 16, 2020, 01:06:40 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 10, 2020, 10:51:00 AM
It's American focused but I've heard good things about "The Blood Telegram: Nixon, Kissinger, and a Forgotten Genocide".

I'll check it out - seems more focused, as you say, on the (shameful) part played by the Nixon administration, though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 16, 2020, 01:10:06 AM
Quote from: Gups on May 15, 2020, 10:26:43 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 10, 2020, 10:14:57 AM
Does anyone have any good readable accounts of the 1971 war over Bangladesh? It amazes me that this isn't better known about in the West.

I've not read it myself but this is meant to be good

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/mar/01/of-blood-and-fire-jahanara-imam-review

There is also history books by Srinath Raghavan and Wilem can Schneidal.

There are a lot of fictional accounts of the war. I'd recommend the reviewer Phillip Hensher's "The Friendly Ones".

Thanks! I'll check those out too - it is bizarre to think how little this is known in the West.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 16, 2020, 06:47:28 AM
Finished The Wars of the Roses: Politics and the constitution in England c.1437-1509, by Carpenter. From 1997, so doesn't include any more modern results. Seemed fairly OK, a plausible description of how kingship was supposed to work in late-medieval England, and the impact on political life of a completely incompetent king. The author has strong positive/negative views on various people, but seems to be open about it and discusses different opinions. One thing seemed odd to me: she twice states that it was a mistake by Edward IV not to kill Henry VI earlier, but she doesn't say why. My impression has always been that keeping Henry VI alive made perfect sense as long as his son was at large. As long as Henry lived his wife and son could only claim to act in his name/interest, and being in possession of Henry allowed a number of different cards to be played if needed. If Henry had been killed earlier then his son could have claimed, not unreasonably, to be the true King of England. A shame that she doesn't elaborate on why she thinks killing Henry before killing his son would have been a good idea.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 16, 2020, 08:50:48 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 16, 2020, 06:47:28 AM
A shame that she doesn't elaborate on why she thinks killing Henry before killing his son would have been a good idea.

A truly bizarre suggestion to put forth and not back it with some sort of reasoning. I've not read any other works that brought Edward to task over not having Henry killed earlier. If anything, they all criticize him for having Henry killed at all (assuming that's what happened).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 16, 2020, 10:08:42 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 16, 2020, 08:50:48 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 16, 2020, 06:47:28 AM
A shame that she doesn't elaborate on why she thinks killing Henry before killing his son would have been a good idea.

A truly bizarre suggestion to put forth and not back it with some sort of reasoning. I've not read any other works that brought Edward to task over not having Henry killed earlier. If anything, they all criticize him for having Henry killed at all (assuming that's what happened).

Yeah, it would not have made sense before Tewkesbury but with Prince Edward now dead, the Queen captured the timing was perfect for an unfortunate accident.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on May 18, 2020, 06:05:30 PM
Rereading The Guns of August and it's just as good a read as I remember it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 18, 2020, 07:21:29 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 15, 2020, 11:40:52 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 15, 2020, 11:33:32 AM
I managed to accidentally buy a book written in medieval Italian.  Pratica della mercatura.  I read a sample of it on my Kindle, and found that the main text is in Italian.  The forward is in English and the notes are in English but not the text.  I tried to remove it from my Kindle and accidentally bought instead.  I couldn't find a way to get a refund for this particular book.

Well the Fates have spoken.  You know what you must do know.


The doctor guy?  What did he say?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on May 19, 2020, 12:36:16 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 16, 2020, 06:47:28 AM
Finished The Wars of the Roses: Politics and the constitution in England c.1437-1509, by Carpenter. From 1997, so doesn't include any more modern results. Seemed fairly OK, a plausible description of how kingship was supposed to work in late-medieval England, and the impact on political life of a completely incompetent king. The author has strong positive/negative views on various people, but seems to be open about it and discusses different opinions. One thing seemed odd to me: she twice states that it was a mistake by Edward IV not to kill Henry VI earlier, but she doesn't say why. My impression has always been that keeping Henry VI alive made perfect sense as long as his son was at large. As long as Henry lived his wife and son could only claim to act in his name/interest, and being in possession of Henry allowed a number of different cards to be played if needed. If Henry had been killed earlier then his son could have claimed, not unreasonably, to be the true King of England. A shame that she doesn't elaborate on why she thinks killing Henry before killing his son would have been a good idea.
As Habs and CC mention, damn strange line of thought there. Out of curiosity, who are some of her personal favorites/villains? I've always been a big Yorkist fan myself with Anthony Woodville and Richard III being personal favorites.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 19, 2020, 12:56:05 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on May 18, 2020, 06:05:30 PM
Rereading The Guns of August and it's just as good a read as I remember it.

:thumbsup:


I was wondering about giving it another read through.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 19, 2020, 01:51:01 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on May 19, 2020, 12:36:16 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 16, 2020, 06:47:28 AM
Finished The Wars of the Roses: Politics and the constitution in England c.1437-1509, by Carpenter. From 1997, so doesn't include any more modern results. Seemed fairly OK, a plausible description of how kingship was supposed to work in late-medieval England, and the impact on political life of a completely incompetent king. The author has strong positive/negative views on various people, but seems to be open about it and discusses different opinions. One thing seemed odd to me: she twice states that it was a mistake by Edward IV not to kill Henry VI earlier, but she doesn't say why. My impression has always been that keeping Henry VI alive made perfect sense as long as his son was at large. As long as Henry lived his wife and son could only claim to act in his name/interest, and being in possession of Henry allowed a number of different cards to be played if needed. If Henry had been killed earlier then his son could have claimed, not unreasonably, to be the true King of England. A shame that she doesn't elaborate on why she thinks killing Henry before killing his son would have been a good idea.
As Habs and CC mention, damn strange line of thought there. Out of curiosity, who are some of her personal favorites/villains? I've always been a big Yorkist fan myself with Anthony Woodville and Richard III being personal favorites.

Loves: Edward IV
Hates: Henry VI and Richard III
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 19, 2020, 02:06:29 PM
So multiple reasons to avoid.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 19, 2020, 02:13:17 PM
At least she likes Richard Gloucester.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 19, 2020, 02:40:40 PM
Loving Eddy IV is easy. Hating Henry VI is just cruel. Hating Richard III is based upon faulty scholarship.  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on May 19, 2020, 02:52:59 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 19, 2020, 02:40:40 PM
Loving Eddy IV is easy. Hating Henry VI is just cruel. Hating Richard III is based upon faulty scholarship.  :P
Agreed on all counts!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 19, 2020, 02:53:30 PM
They were all a bunch of glorified mobsters with fancy titles, except possibly Henry VI who may have been genuinely mentally ill.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 19, 2020, 03:01:22 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 19, 2020, 02:53:30 PM
They were all a bunch of glorified mobsters with fancy titles, except possibly Henry VI who may have been genuinely mentally ill.

If only Henry had been a glorified mobster, then England's soil would have been depriv'd of rivers of English blood. :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on May 19, 2020, 03:02:35 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 19, 2020, 02:53:30 PM
They were all a bunch of glorified mobsters with fancy titles

Mobsters usually do have fancy titles.

Edward IV was pretty cool though. Pity he died at such a shitty time for his kids.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on May 19, 2020, 03:02:59 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 19, 2020, 03:01:22 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 19, 2020, 02:53:30 PM
They were all a bunch of glorified mobsters with fancy titles, except possibly Henry VI who may have been genuinely mentally ill.

If only Henry had been a glorified mobster, then England's soil would have been depriv'd of rivers of English blood. :(

True. Not being a mobster was bad news for your people.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 19, 2020, 03:04:11 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 19, 2020, 02:53:30 PM
They were all a bunch of glorified mobsters with fancy titles, except possibly Henry VI who may have been genuinely mentally ill.

If he wasn't mentally ill, what was he? Just extremely motivated to take a brain nap for a year?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 22, 2020, 11:05:10 PM
Anyone can recommend books on ancient Mesopotamia before the rise of the Achaemenid Empire.

I'm particularly interested in the Neolithic and Bronze Age civilizations, the earlier the better.

I just read this article and it peaked my interest

https://www.ancient.eu/article/688/love-sex-and-marriage-in-ancient-mesopotamia/
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 23, 2020, 01:19:31 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 22, 2020, 11:05:10 PM
Anyone can recommend books on ancient Mesopotamia before the rise of the Achaemenid Empire.

I'm particularly interested in the Neolithic and Bronze Age civilizations, the earlier the better.

I just read this article and it peaked my interest

https://www.ancient.eu/article/688/love-sex-and-marriage-in-ancient-mesopotamia/

It covers the globe, not just Mesopotamia, but I found https://www.amazon.com/Human-Past-History-Development-Societies/dp/050029335X/ref=dp_ob_title_bk very interesting and informative. I have an earlier edition.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 23, 2020, 12:03:08 PM
Gilgamesh was more powerful than the Bull of Anu! You should read his biography.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on May 23, 2020, 03:54:02 PM
Too late.  Tim's interest, as he pointed out, has already peaked.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 23, 2020, 08:19:39 PM
I picked the most recently published book in the bibliography for that article and am 28% in so far.

Kriwaczek, P. Babylon: Mesopotamia and the Birth of Civilization. St. Martin's Griffin, 2012.

Pretty damn interesting in my opinion, but this is an area of which I knew extremely little, so I'll have to read a few more books to really judge it.

The author does get overly philosophical at times, the preface especially where he waxes on about the Iran-Iraq war and the 2003 invasion is a bit overblown.

I'm really interested in the 4000-3000BC period and the theorized theocratic command economy of Uruk, but obviously given the paucity of written records of the time there's not much to go on. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 23, 2020, 09:33:39 PM
Paucity was nice, but one's interest is piqued Timmy, not peaked.  It's possible for interest to have peaked, but that means something different obviously.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 24, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 23, 2020, 08:19:39 PM
I picked the most recently published book in the bibliography for that article and am 28% in so far.

Kriwaczek, P. Babylon: Mesopotamia and the Birth of Civilization. St. Martin's Griffin, 2012.

Pretty damn interesting in my opinion, but this is an area of which I knew extremely little, so I'll have to read a few more books to really judge it.

The author does get overly philosophical at times, the preface especially where he waxes on about the Iran-Iraq war and the 2003 invasion is a bit overblown.

I'm really interested in the 4000-3000BC period and the theorized theocratic command economy of Uruk, but obviously given the paucity of written records of the time there's not much to go on.

55% in now and have finally gotten to Babylon.

The Neo-Summerian Empire also practiced a command economy and we do have voluminous records of that. The author claims the bureaucracy was so thorough that it was far more efficient than 20th century command economies. Seems like a big claim. He offers examples of course, but no real explanations except that the people really believed in the leadership and the system. Perhaps the simplicity of such a primitive agrarian economy made it easier to carry out. :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 24, 2020, 09:33:51 PM
Did you use a calculator to find the exact percentage?  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 24, 2020, 10:41:55 PM
I'm guessing he's reading on Kindle, which tracks your progress in percent like that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 24, 2020, 11:52:59 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 24, 2020, 10:41:55 PM
I'm guessing he's reading on Kindle, which tracks your progress in percent like that.
Yup
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 25, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 24, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 23, 2020, 08:19:39 PM
I picked the most recently published book in the bibliography for that article and am 28% in so far.

Kriwaczek, P. Babylon: Mesopotamia and the Birth of Civilization. St. Martin's Griffin, 2012.

Pretty damn interesting in my opinion, but this is an area of which I knew extremely little, so I'll have to read a few more books to really judge it.

The author does get overly philosophical at times, the preface especially where he waxes on about the Iran-Iraq war and the 2003 invasion is a bit overblown.

I'm really interested in the 4000-3000BC period and the theorized theocratic command economy of Uruk, but obviously given the paucity of written records of the time there's not much to go on.

55% in now and have finally gotten to Babylon.

The Neo-Summerian Empire also practiced a command economy and we do have voluminous records of that. The author claims the bureaucracy was so thorough that it was far more efficient than 20th century command economies. Seems like a big claim. He offers examples of course, but no real explanations except that the people really believed in the leadership and the system. Perhaps the simplicity of such a primitive agrarian economy made it easier to carry out. :hmm:

Indeed. The inherent underutilization of information in a command economy is less detrimental in a simple agrarian economy where in principle one guy can know "all there is to know" about it. Obviously the guy doesn't know all there is to know, especially regarding the individual desires of the population, but the negative effect on the economy is much less than in a modern more complex economy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 25, 2020, 01:08:17 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 25, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 24, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 23, 2020, 08:19:39 PM
I picked the most recently published book in the bibliography for that article and am 28% in so far.

Kriwaczek, P. Babylon: Mesopotamia and the Birth of Civilization. St. Martin's Griffin, 2012.

Pretty damn interesting in my opinion, but this is an area of which I knew extremely little, so I'll have to read a few more books to really judge it.

The author does get overly philosophical at times, the preface especially where he waxes on about the Iran-Iraq war and the 2003 invasion is a bit overblown.

I'm really interested in the 4000-3000BC period and the theorized theocratic command economy of Uruk, but obviously given the paucity of written records of the time there's not much to go on.

55% in now and have finally gotten to Babylon.

The Neo-Summerian Empire also practiced a command economy and we do have voluminous records of that. The author claims the bureaucracy was so thorough that it was far more efficient than 20th century command economies. Seems like a big claim. He offers examples of course, but no real explanations except that the people really believed in the leadership and the system. Perhaps the simplicity of such a primitive agrarian economy made it easier to carry out. :hmm:

Indeed. The inherent underutilization of information in a command economy is less detrimental in a simple agrarian economy where in principle one guy can know "all there is to know" about it. Obviously the guy doesn't know all there is to know, especially regarding the individual desires of the population, but the negative effect on the economy is much less than in a modern more complex economy.
So, what you're saying is that we need a benevolent AI overlord that's tracking all our social media posts in order to know what everyone wants.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 25, 2020, 01:17:56 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 25, 2020, 01:08:17 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 25, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 24, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 23, 2020, 08:19:39 PM
I picked the most recently published book in the bibliography for that article and am 28% in so far.

Kriwaczek, P. Babylon: Mesopotamia and the Birth of Civilization. St. Martin's Griffin, 2012.

Pretty damn interesting in my opinion, but this is an area of which I knew extremely little, so I'll have to read a few more books to really judge it.

The author does get overly philosophical at times, the preface especially where he waxes on about the Iran-Iraq war and the 2003 invasion is a bit overblown.

I'm really interested in the 4000-3000BC period and the theorized theocratic command economy of Uruk, but obviously given the paucity of written records of the time there's not much to go on.

55% in now and have finally gotten to Babylon.

The Neo-Summerian Empire also practiced a command economy and we do have voluminous records of that. The author claims the bureaucracy was so thorough that it was far more efficient than 20th century command economies. Seems like a big claim. He offers examples of course, but no real explanations except that the people really believed in the leadership and the system. Perhaps the simplicity of such a primitive agrarian economy made it easier to carry out. :hmm:

Indeed. The inherent underutilization of information in a command economy is less detrimental in a simple agrarian economy where in principle one guy can know "all there is to know" about it. Obviously the guy doesn't know all there is to know, especially regarding the individual desires of the population, but the negative effect on the economy is much less than in a modern more complex economy.
So, what you're saying is that we need a benevolent AI overlord that's tracking all our social media posts in order to know what everyone wants.  :hmm:

Benevolent is optional IMHO.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 25, 2020, 04:12:25 AM
If it wasn't benevolent why would it care what we want?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 25, 2020, 04:57:18 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 25, 2020, 04:12:25 AM
If it wasn't benevolent why would it care what we want?

Malevolence maybe? I don't know, I'm not advocating a command economy in the first place.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2020, 01:52:53 PM
Knowing what we want is not enough for an effficient command economy.  Economics 101: demand is infinite.  You would also need to know the intensity of the want for each good or service, i.e. how long and hard you would be willing to work in exchange for it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 26, 2020, 12:55:36 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2020, 01:52:53 PM
Knowing what we want is not enough for an effficient command economy.  Economics 101: demand is infinite.  You would also need to know the intensity of the want for each good or service, i.e. how long and hard you would be willing to work in exchange for it.

This is a good point.

I think it would be still be knowable by an advanced enough AI, but how would the Sumerian bureaucrats have threaded that needle? Perhaps because the needs involved were so basic?  People don't want to starve to death. They want the fields irrigated, house built, etc.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 26, 2020, 09:08:13 AM
QuoteIf there existed the universal mind, that projected itself into the scientific fancy of Laplace; a mind that would register simultaneously all the processes of nature and of society, that could measure the dynamics of their motion, that could forecast the results of their inter-reactions, such a mind, of course, could a priori draw up a faultless and an exhaustive economic plan, beginning with the number of hectares of wheat and down to the last button for a vest. In truth, the bureaucracy often conceives that just such a mind is at its disposal; that is why it so easily frees itself from the control of the market and of Soviet democracy. But, in reality, the bureaucracy errs frightfully in its appraisal of its spiritual resources. In its creativeness, it is obliged perforce, in actual performance, to defend upon the proportions (and with equal justice one may say, the disproportions) it has inherited from capitalist Russia: upon the data of the economic structure of contemporary capitalist nations; and finally, upon the experience of successes and mistakes of the Soviet economy itself. But even the most correct combination of all these elements will allow only of constructing a most imperfect wire skeleton of a plan, and not more.

The innumerable living participants of economy, State as well as private, collective as well as individual, must give notice of their needs and of their relative strength not only through the statistical determinations of plan commissions but by the direct pressure of supply and demand. The plan is checked and, to a considerable measure, realized through the market. The regulation of the market itself must depend upon the tendencies that are brought out through its medium. The blueprints produced by the offices must demonstrate their economic expediency through commercial calculation. The system of transitional economy is unthinkable without the control of the rouble. This presupposes, in its turn, that the rouble equals itself. Without a firm monetary unit, commercial accounting can only increase the chaos.

Fun game: guess the author.
No cheating!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 26, 2020, 09:19:09 AM
Obviously Shakespeare.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on May 26, 2020, 12:55:26 PM
Gorbachev?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 26, 2020, 01:12:06 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 26, 2020, 09:08:13 AM
Fun game: guess the author.
No cheating!

I'm guessing a fairly lefty economist.

Keynes?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 26, 2020, 01:15:01 PM
No way it's Keynes - he's far too right-wing for that sort of thinking.

I sort of feel it might be someone like Khrushchev - but that's not two Khrushchevian paragraphs :hmm:

Maybe someone mid NEP?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 26, 2020, 01:19:15 PM
Keynes is too old to be talking about Russian capitalism, you would think.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 26, 2020, 01:22:36 PM
I missed all the references to the rouble - yeah author must be Russian.

I change my guess to Stalin.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 26, 2020, 01:23:45 PM
I'd guess an early Soviet writer, back when critique of state planing was still possible, say early 1920s.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 26, 2020, 01:26:22 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 26, 2020, 01:22:36 PM
I change my guess to Stalin.
Having no qualifications but reading two volumes of Kotkin's biography, I don't think it's Stalin. I feel his style was more didactic and sort of punchy - theoretical because Marxist, but more blunt. Edit: And far less inquisitive.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 26, 2020, 01:29:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 26, 2020, 01:23:45 PM
I'd guess an early Soviet writer, back when critique of state planing was still possible, say early 1920s.

Too early I think to be talking about the successes and mistakes. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 26, 2020, 01:30:49 PM
Someone who is in love with commas.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on May 26, 2020, 01:31:06 PM
I'm weak and a coward and Googled it. It was my second guess, so even in my cowardice I only get consolation points.  :lol:

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 26, 2020, 01:49:16 PM
I googled it too.  I had never heard of this person (that says more about me than the author though).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 26, 2020, 01:53:17 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 26, 2020, 01:30:49 PM
Someone who is in love with commas.

You mean some sort of Russian Commanist? Seems likely.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 26, 2020, 01:54:48 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 26, 2020, 01:49:16 PM
I googled it too.  I had never heard of this person (that says more about me than the author though).

You've never heard of [spoiler]Trotsky[/spoiler]?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 26, 2020, 02:09:05 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 26, 2020, 01:54:48 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 26, 2020, 01:49:16 PM
I googled it too.  I had never heard of this person (that says more about me than the author though).

You've never heard of [spoiler]Trotsky[/spoiler]?  :hmm:

D'oh!  My googling hit this very paragraph being quoted in someone else's book - a dude named Arthur Lewis.  I didn't really read the context though.

Lewis sounds like an interesting character.  Born in 1917 in St Lucia, he winds up going to the LSE (incidentally the first black person to attend), got his PhD, became an expert in development of developing countries, and won the Nobel Prize in Economics :shifty: in 1979.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 26, 2020, 04:17:32 PM
:angry:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 26, 2020, 04:38:23 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 26, 2020, 01:23:45 PM
I'd guess an early Soviet writer, back when critique of state planing was still possible, say early 1920s.

It was a Soviet writer active during that time period, but he took a very different view in the early 20s then he did in this work, written in the 30s about the Five Year Plan.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 26, 2020, 06:57:20 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 26, 2020, 04:38:23 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 26, 2020, 01:23:45 PM
I'd guess an early Soviet writer, back when critique of state planing was still possible, say early 1920s.

It was a Soviet writer active during that time period, but he took a very different view in the early 20s then he did in this work, written in the 30s about the Five Year Plan.

Ok so there can be only one that fits that description - too bad he had to die...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on May 26, 2020, 08:17:53 PM
Lev Bronstein, I believe. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 27, 2020, 06:45:12 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 26, 2020, 09:08:13 AM
QuoteIf there existed the universal mind, that projected itself into the scientific fancy of Laplace; a mind that would register simultaneously all the processes of nature and of society, that could measure the dynamics of their motion, that could forecast the results of their inter-reactions, such a mind, of course, could a priori draw up a faultless and an exhaustive economic plan, beginning with the number of hectares of wheat and down to the last button for a vest. In truth, the bureaucracy often conceives that just such a mind is at its disposal; that is why it so easily frees itself from the control of the market and of Soviet democracy. But, in reality, the bureaucracy errs frightfully in its appraisal of its spiritual resources. In its creativeness, it is obliged perforce, in actual performance, to defend upon the proportions (and with equal justice one may say, the disproportions) it has inherited from capitalist Russia: upon the data of the economic structure of contemporary capitalist nations; and finally, upon the experience of successes and mistakes of the Soviet economy itself. But even the most correct combination of all these elements will allow only of constructing a most imperfect wire skeleton of a plan, and not more.

The innumerable living participants of economy, State as well as private, collective as well as individual, must give notice of their needs and of their relative strength not only through the statistical determinations of plan commissions but by the direct pressure of supply and demand. The plan is checked and, to a considerable measure, realized through the market. The regulation of the market itself must depend upon the tendencies that are brought out through its medium. The blueprints produced by the offices must demonstrate their economic expediency through commercial calculation. The system of transitional economy is unthinkable without the control of the rouble. This presupposes, in its turn, that the rouble equals itself. Without a firm monetary unit, commercial accounting can only increase the chaos.

Fun game: guess the author.
No cheating!
Not a Sumerian!  :mad:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 27, 2020, 07:35:32 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 26, 2020, 08:17:53 PM
Lev Bronstein, I believe.

Showoff!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on May 28, 2020, 10:03:08 AM
Okay, here's a fun little literary mystery for you guys to ponder.

One of the free books I was shown with my free month of Kindle Unlimited was a book called Sister Sable by an author who used the pseudonym "T. Mintebank."   https://www.amazon.com/T.-Mountebank/e/B0135YDE7S%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share (https://www.amazon.com/T.-Mountebank/e/B0135YDE7S%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share)  It sounded like it was a steampunk book, which is a genre I tend to like, and it was free, so i got it and read it.

It was a very strange little book, with a very complex and incompletely-explained plot involving a modern alternate-world civilization much like ours, but which is dominated by a Church whose all-female (maybe - we only ever see a single male member) clergy plan to take over the state by having the King marry, in accordance with prophecy, the titular Sister Sable.  Lots of interesting plot twists ensue, well-written but asking all sorts of questions while answering few.

So, I decided to get the second book in the trilogy, Mother of Heroes.  SS was written in 2015, MoH in 2017, so maybe the series would soon be completed, I thought.

Mother of Heroes is a title listed at Goodreads, Librarything... and a whole bunch of web sites that do not, in fact, exist.  Amazon doesn't show it as a book either by itself or under the author listing.  There are no reviews of it, anywhere.  No cover pictures exist.  None of the sites listing it show a publisher.  It pretty clearly doesn't exist, though there are six members of Goodreads who have rated it.  None have reviewed it, even with a sentence.

It appears that the second book doesn't exist.  Given that the author chose a pseudonym that basically means "the fraud," and his/her Amazon profiles claims that "T. Mountebank is a world traveller, a rogue, a renegade, an optimist, a futurist, a fearless psychonaut, and a very bad pilot" with a clearly-phony author picture, the author doesn't intend this pseudonym to be taken seriously, and maybe that the whole book series is an elaborate practical joke.

But the author did go through the trouble of getting the first book published, and through the trouble of making organizations and fans think that there was a second book, and I don't understand why.  The first book has 70% 5-star ratings on Amazon (and they don't look phony) with an average rating from 616 reviews of 4.2/5, so clearly the potential was there to make some money with a sequel.  But, instead, we have a phony sequel and a mystery.

Can anyone think of a talented author in the genre that would spend their time on such a troll?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on May 28, 2020, 10:04:02 AM
Now that I have time, I'm starting to cull my bucket list of books. Now reading Don Quixote. Started off good, but it's simmering down a bit as I reach midway,
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 28, 2020, 10:31:10 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 28, 2020, 10:03:08 AM
Can anyone think of a talented author in the genre that would spend their time on such a troll?

That is indeed mysterious, and off the top of my head I could think of a few possibilities:

The author died before publishing their book. They shared it with a few trusted people (hence the Goodreads reviews), but during the process of releasing the book they shuffled off the mortal coil.

The author decided not to release it, though they had progressed somewhat on the path. Maybe they got cold feet following an initial modest success, maybe they had a severe case of impostor syndrome. Since they're using a pen name, maybe their writing and their career/private life don't mix and they pulled the plug before or because their employer, family, or friends find/found out. Maybe they got through the process and someone pointed out a major flaw (real or imaginary) in book 1, book 2, or how both connect that left the author throwing it into the trash or reworking all of it.

And, the most mundane possibility: they just lost interest in the whole project and left it unfinished. Perhaps they realized that the series would be a lot longer than they originally planned. Which of course leaves the possibility that they might come back eventually.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 28, 2020, 10:43:43 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 28, 2020, 10:04:02 AM
Now that I have time, I'm starting to cull my bucket list of books. Now reading Don Quixote. Started off good, but it's simmering down a bit as I reach midway,

They had Don Quixote in it? :bleeding:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 29, 2020, 08:04:39 AM
Re Sister Sable and series it does appear to be an elaborate literary prank.  The only other literary reference using the words "sister sable" I could find was a parody poem by Coleridge.  The goodreads page for Mother of Heroes has a comment I suspect came from the author: "Hi! I can't wait to read this book. I know it's being translated at the moment, so I ask: how can I find it in original language? And what language is it, by the way?"
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 29, 2020, 08:13:18 AM
Literary trivia: which two famous authors died on the day that John F. Kennedy was shot?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 29, 2020, 08:17:19 AM
Frost? Maybe that's too perfect.

Plath?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 29, 2020, 08:21:07 AM
No and no.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 29, 2020, 10:23:37 AM
[spoiler]Huxley and Lewis[/spoiler]   :showoff:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on May 29, 2020, 10:31:39 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 29, 2020, 08:04:39 AM
Re Sister Sable and series it does appear to be an elaborate literary prank.  The only other literary reference using the words "sister sable" I could find was a parody poem by Coleridge.  The goodreads page for Mother of Heroes has a comment I suspect came from the author: "Hi! I can't wait to read this book. I know it's being translated at the moment, so I ask: how can I find it in original language? And what language is it, by the way?"

Yes, and if you look at the comments to some Amazon reviews, the author is clearly having a piss.  The response to one perfectly ordinary 3-star review reads:
QuoteHello. Thank you sincerely for your very fair review. It is accurate and balanced and is the most magnanimous style of critique any writer could hope to receive, and for that we [the translating editors of Sister Sable] would like to make contact. You have great potential as a creative editor. If you would, please, make contact through the email you'll find on the first page of Sister Sable. Time is unimportant, so absolutely anytime you'd like, even years later, please know we'd like to work with you. Thank you again for your clear and concise insight.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 29, 2020, 11:06:39 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 29, 2020, 10:23:37 AM
[spoiler]Huxley and Lewis[/spoiler]   :showoff:
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on May 29, 2020, 11:21:03 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 29, 2020, 08:13:18 AM
Literary trivia: which two famous authors died on the day that John F. Kennedy was shot?

Shakespeare and Cervantes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 29, 2020, 11:30:16 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 29, 2020, 11:21:03 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 29, 2020, 08:13:18 AM
Literary trivia: which two famous authors died on the day that John F. Kennedy was shot?

Shakespeare and Cervantes.

Easy mistake, they died when Robert F. Kennedy was shot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on May 29, 2020, 02:41:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 29, 2020, 11:30:16 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 29, 2020, 11:21:03 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 29, 2020, 08:13:18 AM
Literary trivia: which two famous authors died on the day that John F. Kennedy was shot?

Shakespeare and Cervantes.

Easy mistake, they died when Robert F. Kennedy was shot.

Wasn't that also The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 29, 2020, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 29, 2020, 02:41:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 29, 2020, 11:30:16 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 29, 2020, 11:21:03 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 29, 2020, 08:13:18 AM
Literary trivia: which two famous authors died on the day that John F. Kennedy was shot?

Shakespeare and Cervantes.

Easy mistake, they died when Robert F. Kennedy was shot.

Wasn't that also The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down?

That's why all the bells were ringing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: PDH on May 29, 2020, 02:53:34 PM
Yep, the day the music died.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 29, 2020, 03:01:08 PM
Fun fact, the song The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down was covered by German singer Juliane Werding in the 70s, re-interpreted as a song about a guy who dies of a drug overdose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD8-q-Zey7Q
Just looked it up, she was 16 when this was recorded (the TV show this is from was notable for live performances instead of playback).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 29, 2020, 03:01:25 PM
You sure it wasn't the summer of '69?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 29, 2020, 03:01:57 PM
The levee was dry that summer
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 29, 2020, 03:03:48 PM
Was that when Debbie went down to Dallas?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 29, 2020, 03:04:42 PM
*on
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 29, 2020, 03:07:11 PM
Does your MU/TH/UR know?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 29, 2020, 03:08:26 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 29, 2020, 03:07:11 PM
Does your MU/TH/UR know?

Word to her!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 29, 2020, 03:14:49 PM
Tell her children not to walk my way.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Zoupa on May 29, 2020, 04:47:57 PM
Has anyone read those series of books, and are they any good?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Brook
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on May 29, 2020, 05:21:32 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 29, 2020, 04:47:57 PM
Has anyone read those series of books, and are they any good?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Brook

No, but the series certainly looks interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on May 29, 2020, 09:18:23 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 29, 2020, 04:47:57 PM
Has anyone read those series of books, and are they any good?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Brook

They seemed to me to be the standard "Napoleon tried to conquer the world, and plucky Brits like our hero stopped him" vibe.  Plus, I am convinced that no author can manage even six good books in a series.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 30, 2020, 01:34:39 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 29, 2020, 09:18:23 PM
Plus, I am convinced that no author can manage even six good books in a series.

Doubters of Gor. :angry:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on May 30, 2020, 02:17:48 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 29, 2020, 04:47:57 PM
Has anyone read those series of books, and are they any good?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Brook

My mother;  there are some of the later books in the series on her shelves in what was her bedroom. I can remember glancing at them a good few years ago and not being overly interested in reading them in full.

I can spoil the overall end of the series for you though if wikipedia doesn't give it away.

Anyway, suffice it to say my mother enjoyed them enough to buy them at a time when she was also buying Frank Herbert and Anne McCaffrey if I am remembering the prices correctly.

[Example of inflation in the Seventies. Immediately post decimalisation books were 25 new pence. At the end of the decade/beginning of the Eighties between £2.00 and £3.00.]
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 02, 2020, 07:23:02 AM
Just got a sweet shipment of stuff from the Lance & Longbow Society. Detailed booklets on orders of battle, participants, banners, and livery of the Wars of the Roses, and 2 CDs with the first 100 issues of The Hobilar. If you're into the WotR (or medieval warfare in general) and haven't checked out the Society, do so!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 03, 2020, 04:17:33 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 02, 2020, 07:23:02 AM
Just got a sweet shipment of stuff from the Lance & Longbow Society. Detailed booklets on orders of battle, participants, banners, and livery of the Wars of the Roses, and 2 CDs with the first 100 issues of The Hobilar. If you're into the WotR (or medieval warfare in general) and haven't checked out the Society, do so!
I recommend Hawkwood, a manga about John Hawkwood and his career as a mercenary during the 100 year war.

http://fanfox.net/manga/hawkwood/v01/c001/1.html
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 03, 2020, 04:19:51 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 03, 2020, 04:17:33 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 02, 2020, 07:23:02 AM
Just got a sweet shipment of stuff from the Lance & Longbow Society. Detailed booklets on orders of battle, participants, banners, and livery of the Wars of the Roses, and 2 CDs with the first 100 issues of The Hobilar. If you're into the WotR (or medieval warfare in general) and haven't checked out the Society, do so!
I recommend Hawkwood, a manga about John Hawkwood and his career as a mercenary during the 100 year war.

http://fanfox.net/manga/hawkwood/v01/c001/1.html

18+? Sweet. Thanks! :)

Just a few days ago I read a book about Castagnaro.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 03, 2020, 04:22:05 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 02, 2020, 07:23:02 AM
Just got a sweet shipment of stuff from the Lance & Longbow Society. Detailed booklets on orders of battle, participants, banners, and livery of the Wars of the Roses, and 2 CDs with the first 100 issues of The Hobilar. If you're into the WotR (or medieval warfare in general) and haven't checked out the Society, do so!

Addendum: the Hobilar stuff comes with great indices, so you can easily find the things that interest you. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on June 03, 2020, 08:57:40 AM
:cry: Stop tempting me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 08, 2020, 01:12:01 PM
Wolfson History Book Prize announced a week today in a Zoom, I think. The Shortlist looks fantastic - I've only read The Five so far (I am, sadly, low-key into the Ripper) which is excellent:
Quote'The Boundless Sea:
A Human History of the Oceans'
David Abulafia

Allen Lane

For most of human history, the seas have been the main means of long-distance trade and communication between peoples – for the spread of ideas and religion as well as commerce. This tremendous book begins with the earliest seafaring societies – the Polynesians of the Pacific, possessors of intuitive navigational skills long before the invention of the compass – and ends with the giant liners and container ships of today, which still conduct 80% of world trade by sea.

In between, David Abulafia follows merchants, explorers, pirates, cartographers and travellers in their quests for spices, gold, ivory, slaves, lands for settlement and knowledge of what lay beyond. Avoiding as far as possible a Eurocentric approach, the book deals with the Atlantic waters before Columbus and shows how lucrative trade routes were created that carried goods and ideas along the 'Silk Route of the Sea' well before the Europeans burst into the Indian Ocean around 1500.

In an extraordinary narrative of humanity and the oceans, Abulafia shows how maritime networks grew from many separate localities to form a continuum of interconnection across the globe. This is history of the grandest scale, and from a bracingly different perspective.

Quote'A History of the Bible:
The Book and Its Faiths'
John Barton

Allen Lane

This book tells the story of the Bible, explaining how it came to be constructed and how it has been understood from its remote beginnings down to the present. John Barton describes how the texts which comprise the Bible were written and when, what we know – and what we cannot know – about their authors and what they might have meant. Incisive readings shed new light on even familiar passages, exposing not only the traditions behind them, but also the busy hands of the scribes and editors who assembled them.

Tracing its dissemination and interpretation in Judaism and Christianity from Antiquity to the rise of modern biblical scholarship, Barton elucidates how meaning has both been drawn from the Bible and imposed upon it. Part of the book's originality is to illuminate the gap between religion and scripture, the ways in which neither maps exactly onto the other, and how religious thinkers from Augustine to Spinoza have reckoned with this. Barton shows that if we are to regard the Bible as 'authoritative', it cannot be as believers have so often done in the past.

Quote'A Fistful of Shells:
West Africa from the Rise of the Slave Trade to the Age of Revolution '
Toby Green

Allen Lane

By the time of the 'Scramble for Africa' in the late nineteenth century, Africa had already been globally connected for many centuries. Its gold had fuelled the economies of Europe and the Islamic world since around 1000 CE, and its sophisticated kingdoms had traded with Europeans along the coasts from Senegal down to Angola since the fifteenth century. Until at least 1650, this was a trade of equals, using a variety of currencies – most importantly shells: the cowrie shells imported from the Maldives, and the nzimbu shells imported from Brazil.

Toby Green's groundbreaking new book transforms our view of West and West-Central Africa. A Fistful of Shells draws not just on written histories, but on archival research in nine countries, on art, praise-singers, oral history, archaeology, letter and the author's personal experience to create a new perspective on the history of one of the world's most important regions.

Quote'Cricket Country:
An Indian Odyssey in the Age of Empire'
Prashant Kidambi

Oxford University Press

'Cricket is an Indian game accidentally discovered by the English,' it has been said. Today, the Indian cricket team is a powerful national symbol, a unifying force in a country riven by conflicts. But India was represented by a cricket team long before it became an independent nation.

Drawing on an unparalleled range of original archival sources, Cricket Country tells the extraordinary story of how the idea of India took shape on the cricket pitch in the age of empire. Conceived by an unlikely coalition of imperial and local elites, it took twelve years and three failed attempts before the first Indian cricket team made its debut on Britain's playing fields in the Coronation summer of 1911.

This is a tale with an improbable cast of characters set against the backdrop of anti-colonial protest and revolutionary politics. The team's captain was the embattled ruler of a powerful Sikh state. The other team members were chosen on the basis of their religious identity. Remarkably, two of the cricketers were Dalits. Over the course of their historic tour, these cricketers participated in a collective enterprise that highlights the role of sport in fashioning the imagined communities of empire and nation.

Quote'The Five:
The Untold Lives of the Women Killed by Jack the Ripper'
Hallie Rubenhold

Doubleday

Polly, Annie, Elizabeth, Catherine and Mary-Jane are famous for the same thing, though they never met. They came from Fleet Street, Knightsbridge, Wolverhampton, Sweden and Wales. They wrote ballads, ran coffee houses, lived on country estates, they breathed ink-dust from printing presses and escaped people-traffickers.

What they had in common was the year of their murders: 1888.

Their murderer was never identified, but the name created for him by the press has become far more famous than any of these five women.  Now in this devastating narrative of five lives, historian Hallie Rubenhold finally sets the record straight and gives these women back their lives.

Quote'Chaucer:
A European Life'
Marion Turner

Princeton University Press

More than any other canonical English writer, Geoffrey Chaucer lived and worked at the centre of political life—yet his poems are anything but conventional. Edgy, complicated, and often dark, they reflect a conflicted world, and their astonishing diversity and innovative language earned Chaucer renown as the father of English literature. Marion Turner, however, reveals him as a great European writer and thinker. To understand his accomplishment, she reconstructs in unprecedented detail the cosmopolitan world of Chaucer's adventurous life, focusing on the places and spaces that fired his imagination.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on June 08, 2020, 01:28:48 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 08, 2020, 01:12:01 PM
Quote
Quote'Chaucer:
A European Life'
Marion Turner

Princeton University Press

More than any other canonical English writer, Geoffrey Chaucer lived and worked at the centre of political life—yet his poems are anything but conventional. Edgy, complicated, and often dark, they reflect a conflicted world, and their astonishing diversity and innovative language earned Chaucer renown as the father of English literature. Marion Turner, however, reveals him as a great European writer and thinker. To understand his accomplishment, she reconstructs in unprecedented detail the cosmopolitan world of Chaucer's adventurous life, focusing on the places and spaces that fired his imagination.

I can't comment on any of the others, but I listened to a recent interview with Marion Turner on the History Extra Podcast and will definitely be buying this one at some point. She came across as extremely knowledgeable and had a lot of insight into the subject that lured me in. I can recommend this on the basis of that alone.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 08, 2020, 01:30:22 PM
Well he certainly wasn't a beggar.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 08, 2020, 01:44:29 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on June 08, 2020, 01:28:48 PMI can't comment on any of the others, but I listened to a recent interview with Marion Turner on the History Extra Podcast and will definitely be buying this one at some point. She came across as extremely knowledgeable and had a lot of insight into the subject that lured me in. I can recommend this on the basis of that alone.
I would really, really recommend The Five.

As I say I've read more than the odd book on Jack the Ripper ( :Embarrass: :blush:) and it's not often you come across a book that just utterly changes your perception of something, but she does it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on June 08, 2020, 01:55:26 PM
:hmm: Wishlisted, at least. Thanks!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on June 08, 2020, 05:11:29 PM
Fistful of Shells is a great synthesis of a lot of research, past and ongoing - for those who are interested in the history of early modern West Africa.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 08, 2020, 05:47:04 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 08, 2020, 05:11:29 PM
Fistful of Shells is a great synthesis of a lot of research, past and ongoing - for those who are interested in the history of early modern West Africa.

Heard the author being interviewed.  It is on my list  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on June 09, 2020, 01:41:24 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 08, 2020, 01:12:01 PM
Wolfson History Book Prize announced a week today in a Zoom, I think. The Shortlist looks fantastic - I've only read The Five so far (I am, sadly, low-key into the Ripper) which is excellent:


Those first three and Chaucer are going on the list, thanks  :cool:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 15, 2020, 04:03:27 PM
The Bounless Sea by David Abulafia won :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 17, 2020, 09:10:44 AM
Richard III: Loyalty Binds Me, by Lewis. A modern take on Richard, with the advantage of the discovery of his remains. Author is a self-confessed Ricardian. Isn't obviously unreasonable (but of course I'm not an expert on the sources etc), even if I don't agree with every argument. I think it would have been helpful to discuss a bit more the possible scenarios for what happened to the princes in the Tower, just to clarify what the options are and how likely or unlikely the author thinks they are and why.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 17, 2020, 09:21:56 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 17, 2020, 09:07:05 AM
The whole notion of Ricardians strikes me as weird. Why are people worried about the morality of a Renaissance monarch? I mean, if he killed the princes in the Tower, would that make any actual difference to how one thinks about him? Murdering off rivals to the throne was hardly uncommon at the time, certainly the Tudors did it often enough.

Murdering your own underage nephews is a bit extreme even for the times. Even if many rivals were killed during the Wars of the Roses, it was often in battle or openly by kangaroo court post-battle. Edward may have killed a brother but Clarence was executed according to law. As I understand it even the killing of Henry VI may have been legal if Edward/Richard bothered with the necessary formalities, which we don't know if they did, and even if it was murder Henry VI was a grown man and not a child. And of course what the Tudors did was (mostly) after the WotR.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 17, 2020, 11:04:06 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 17, 2020, 09:21:56 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 17, 2020, 09:07:05 AM
The whole notion of Ricardians strikes me as weird. Why are people worried about the morality of a Renaissance monarch? I mean, if he killed the princes in the Tower, would that make any actual difference to how one thinks about him? Murdering off rivals to the throne was hardly uncommon at the time, certainly the Tudors did it often enough.

Murdering your own underage nephews is a bit extreme even for the times. Even if many rivals were killed during the Wars of the Roses, it was often in battle or openly by kangaroo court post-battle. Edward may have killed a brother but Clarence was executed according to law. As I understand it even the killing of Henry VI may have been legal if Edward/Richard bothered with the necessary formalities, which we don't know if they did, and even if it was murder Henry VI was a grown man and not a child. And of course what the Tudors did was (mostly) after the WotR.

Yes, but it was mainly the Tudors who were interested in spreading the news that Richard was an inconvenient heir murderer, to bolster their own dynasty's somewhat dubious claim to the throne - point being that they themselves did quite a bit of potential-rival-murdering.

Seems the sort of thing that monarchs did a lot of at the time - while no doubt horrible, it certainly was not unusual. The Tudors shitting on Richard's name is the pot calling the kettle black, but there is no particular surprise if the kettle is indeed black ...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 17, 2020, 11:11:31 AM
Which Tudor killed their immediate family members? Was killing the legal king who is that closely related, especially as a minor, really that common?

I cannot think of too many examples, in France and England anyway. Examples please.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 17, 2020, 11:15:24 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2020, 11:11:31 AM
Which Tudor killed their immediate family members? Was killing the legal king who is that closely related, especially as a minor, really that common?

I cannot think of too many examples, in France and England anyway. Examples please.

Nephew isn't an immediate family member though.

For parallels to killing off close relations that could assume the throne, Lady Jane Grey, 16 year old  first cousin, springs to mind.

Also, consider the sad fate of the Earl of Warwick:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Plantagenet,_17th_Earl_of_Warwick

Practically the first thing the new king Henry VII did, was pack the 10 year old kid off to the tower ... where he was imprisoned in such isolation he was said to have gone insane. Though admittedly, he wasn't executed until he was 24.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2020, 11:16:56 AM
Edward II, Richard II, Henry VI all killed off in about 100 year period.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2020, 11:17:41 AM
Being King of England in the late middle ages was a dangerous job.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2020, 11:18:29 AM
As for France, guess it depends how much you believe the Druon version of that history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 17, 2020, 11:18:44 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2020, 11:17:41 AM
Being King of England in the late middle ages was a dangerous job.

That's why so few of them are alive today.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 17, 2020, 12:52:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 17, 2020, 11:04:06 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 17, 2020, 09:21:56 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 17, 2020, 09:07:05 AM
The whole notion of Ricardians strikes me as weird. Why are people worried about the morality of a Renaissance monarch? I mean, if he killed the princes in the Tower, would that make any actual difference to how one thinks about him? Murdering off rivals to the throne was hardly uncommon at the time, certainly the Tudors did it often enough.

Murdering your own underage nephews is a bit extreme even for the times. Even if many rivals were killed during the Wars of the Roses, it was often in battle or openly by kangaroo court post-battle. Edward may have killed a brother but Clarence was executed according to law. As I understand it even the killing of Henry VI may have been legal if Edward/Richard bothered with the necessary formalities, which we don't know if they did, and even if it was murder Henry VI was a grown man and not a child. And of course what the Tudors did was (mostly) after the WotR.

Yes, but it was mainly the Tudors who were interested in spreading the news that Richard was an inconvenient heir murderer, to bolster their own dynasty's somewhat dubious claim to the throne - point being that they themselves did quite a bit of potential-rival-murdering.

Seems the sort of thing that monarchs did a lot of at the time - while no doubt horrible, it certainly was not unusual. The Tudors shitting on Richard's name is the pot calling the kettle black, but there is no particular surprise if the kettle is indeed black ...

My impression is that murdering children, especially as closely related as nephews, was in fact unusual during the period. Potentially problematic children, for instance children of executed traitors, were typically not physically harmed. Richard of York had not been harmed after his father was executed by Henry V, and was allowed to inherit his father. The children of Clarence were not harmed after his execution (harm did come, decades later). Elizabeth of York (sister of the princes) was not harmed even though active traitor (not a value judgement) Henry Tudor was planning to marry her to add the York legitimacy to his own claim. Child kings Richard II and Henry VI were not harmed until they had reigned as adults for many years and had made enemies as adults.

Even for enemy adults the assassin's knife doesn't appear to have been that common a tool during the WotR.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 17, 2020, 12:59:40 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2020, 11:16:56 AM
Edward II, Richard II, Henry VI all killed off in about 100 year period.

Well yeah that is true. Especially with that whole civil war for the throne going on.

I should point out that Richard II triggered his downfall by executing his brothers.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2020, 01:03:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2020, 12:59:40 PM
I should point out that Richard II triggered his downfall by executing his brothers.

Yes I've skipped over the murder, execution and mutilation of large numbers of princes, royal dukes,  regents and pretenders during that same time period for the sake of brevity and focused just on the top job.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 17, 2020, 01:18:03 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2020, 01:03:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2020, 12:59:40 PM
I should point out that Richard II triggered his downfall by executing his brothers.

Yes I've skipped over the murder, execution and mutilation of large numbers of princes, royal dukes,  regents and pretenders during that same time period for the sake of brevity and focused just on the top job.

I never said otherwise. I was just trying to explain why the deaths of the princes in the tower, or Ivan the Terrible's savage beating to death of his completely innocent son, were considered going over a line in an era where butchering your rivals was common.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 17, 2020, 01:18:22 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 17, 2020, 12:27:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2020, 12:18:07 PM
I mean one would think that uncles killing their nieces and nephews or brothers taking out their older brothers would be a very common occurance in this era but for whatever reason it wasn't. I mean it isn't like it never happened but it was frowned upon in a way that arbitrarily executing the Duke of Buckingham wasn't.

The Duke of Clarence was the bro of the dad of the murdered nephews ... what happened to him?

Oh yeah, he was executed (privately) for attempting to usurp his brother.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Plantagenet,_1st_Duke_of_Clarence

Seems that, in this family, murder of close relations, judicial or otherwise, did indeed happen with distressing frequency!

Edit: two of his kids were also executed by the Tudors at various times ...

Clarence had earlier been in open rebellion against his brother and been forgiven. I think it's likely that he wasn't innocent in 1478. He certainly was into judicial murder, but more in the perpetrating role AFAIK. I don't think it's necessarily correct to read any ill intent into Edward sparing his brother a public execution.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on June 17, 2020, 01:23:04 PM
Also let me just point out that despite Edward VI desperatly wanting to get rid of Mary as he was dying he never actually just had her arrested and executed. Mary was also oddly hesitant to just take out Elizabeth.

If either of those sisters had been distant cousins instead I doubt Edward or Mary would have hesitated a second.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 17, 2020, 01:25:06 PM
A general point is that I'm not sure that political culture in the 16th century (most of the controversial Tudor stuff having been brought up) was necessarily identical to political culture in the 15th century. Political culture changes over time. The Tudors did some stuff that I think would have been seen as beyond the pale by most 15th century monarchs, so it may not always be meaningful to make straight comparisons between the two eras.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 18, 2020, 05:49:50 AM
Got another sweet shipment of Lance & Longbow stuff. Their miniatures wargame rules Poleaxed 2 for late medieval battles, their The Gentry & Peerage of Towton (two volumes), and some other stuff.

I also got some nice non-book stuff (from a different supplier) that is slightly relevant: two replica WotR metal badges, the Boar and the Bear & Ragged Staff. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 18, 2020, 10:02:27 AM
Picked up the first two volumes of the Wolf Hall trilogy.  The present tense is kind of jarring, but let's see how it goes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 18, 2020, 10:09:22 AM
Big fan of them - I think they're some of the best novels about politics I've read.

(Also as an aisde I love that Hilary Mantel has called her upcoming book of essays and articles Mantel Pieces :lol:)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 18, 2020, 01:01:58 PM
I finished a book on Diego Rivera, Frida Khalo and the painting of the Detroit Industry (https://www.dia.org/riveracourt) murals in the Detroit Institute of Arts.

I learned that Edsel Ford had probably never seen Rivera's work before he came to Detroit.  He was talked into funding the mural's by the then director of the DIA.  The murals were controversial when they were first displayed in 1933; however it's suspected that Edsel had a friend at the Detroit Free Press write the first negative article about the works in order to draw in crowds.  If so it worked, the controversy was dubbed the "Battle of Detroit" by the Detroit papers at the time and the murals brought in several hundred thousand people in the first year.

I also learned that Henry Ford was a popular man in the Soviet Union (where Rivera had visited.)  Rivera recounted a story where he visited a Soviet worker's house, the worker had on display four pictures: Joseph Stalin, Vladimir Lenin, Karl Marx and Henry Ford (one of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong...).  The worker explained that the latter three had laid the foundation for the modern world that would be achieved through Stalin's political genius.

Kahlo hated the United States and especially Detroit; though she started seriously painting when she lived there.  Rivera loved it, especially the industry.  He thought Henry Ford had the soul of a poet.  Henry was interviewed near his Highland Park plant soon after the murals were released.  When asked about them he said something to the affect that Edsel was the artist of the family; that (he said as gesturing at the assembly plant) is my type of art, the future.  I thought that's something an Ayn Rand hero would say.

I also learned that Edsel Ford donated a million dollars to assist Jewish settlers living in (what was then called) Palestine.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 18, 2020, 03:17:58 PM
I've bought so many books in lockdown and read so few. But I have watched an incredible amount of trash  :Embarrass:

Resolve to fix this and make a dent in the reading piles. Starting this weekend!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on June 18, 2020, 03:24:28 PM
It's pitiful how few books I read simply for pleasure.

But now that the boys are all kind of past dad reading them a story book before bed :( we've introduced a new routine.  10-15 minutes before their bedtime we all (myself included) pick a book and read to ourselves.  It's kind of nice.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on June 20, 2020, 05:58:10 AM
Finished Don Quixote.

I never knew that this was actually two books, written about 10 years apart. The second book is actually better than the first, which has a lot of boring digressions. What's interesting is that in between the first and second book, some other writer wrote an unauthorized sequel before Cervantes, which Cervantes actually uses in his second book. Don Quixote is mystified that there is a "badly written history" out there about him, and sets about proving that author wrong. Probably the first example of meta-writing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 20, 2020, 09:42:34 AM
Starting Crucible of War.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 22, 2020, 09:25:41 AM
Finished La Sombra del Viento (The Shadow of the Wind) and then discovered the author, Carlos Ruiz Zafón, died last week Friday. :o

Celedhring (or anyone else whose been there) is Els Quatre Gats worth seeing, or just a tourist trap?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on June 23, 2020, 03:48:36 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 18, 2020, 10:02:27 AM
Picked up the first two volumes of the Wolf Hall trilogy.  The present tense is kind of jarring, but let's see how it goes.

I'm re-reading Wolf Hall. First time round it took me about a hundred pages before I realised the "he" was always Cromwell, after that it flowed very easily.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 23, 2020, 07:05:30 AM
Quote from: Gups on June 23, 2020, 03:48:36 AM
I'm re-reading Wolf Hall. First time round it took me about a hundred pages before I realised the "he" was always Cromwell, after that it flowed very easily.

Thanks for the heads up.  I hadn't caught that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 23, 2020, 10:33:43 PM
Grumbler you a navy guy. What's your recommendation on the book Six Frigates?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on June 24, 2020, 08:22:26 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 23, 2020, 10:33:43 PM
Grumbler you a navy guy. What's your recommendation on the book Six Frigates?

Great book. Popular history in the vein of Ryan or McCullough (not scholarly like, say, Wilmott) so very readable.  I didn't see any significant flaws, errors, or unreasonable conclusion.  Highly recommended.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on June 24, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
Ordered  :cool:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on June 24, 2020, 11:02:24 AM
Quote from: Maladict on June 24, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
Ordered  :cool:

Weren't you supposed to post this in you B4 account?  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 24, 2020, 11:08:43 AM
:D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on June 24, 2020, 02:37:17 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 24, 2020, 11:02:24 AM
Quote from: Maladict on June 24, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
Ordered  :cool:

Weren't you supposed to post this in you B4 account?  :lol:

That's the one for rock climbing posts. No, wait...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on June 24, 2020, 02:48:09 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on June 24, 2020, 07:32:04 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 24, 2020, 08:22:26 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 23, 2020, 10:33:43 PM
Grumbler you a navy guy. What's your recommendation on the book Six Frigates?

Great book. Popular history in the vein of Ryan or McCullough (not scholarly like, say, Wilmott) so very readable.  I didn't see any significant flaws, errors, or unreasonable conclusion.  Highly recommended.

Thank you
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Tamas on June 25, 2020, 06:55:28 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 24, 2020, 11:02:24 AM
Quote from: Maladict on June 24, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
Ordered  :cool:

Weren't you supposed to post this in you B4 account?  :lol:

:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 29, 2020, 11:26:48 AM
Reading Jill Lepore's These Truths, a history of the USA. Good writing so far (about 1/4 in, ca. 1820), with a lot of room given to the slavery question in the settling, founding and growth of the young nation. Slightly confusing when references are made to Malthus and Richard Hakluyt.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: viper37 on July 12, 2020, 06:28:05 PM
Savage Earth.

A 5 book series about the last humans living a sheltered existence in the air, in a flying city, while the Earth has been overrun by vampires 150 years ago.

It has some nice action elements, but the universe isn't that original.  It's a post-apocalyptical setting and it reminds me a lot of The 100, BSG and The Walking Dead.
I like how they did the vampires though. For the most part, they are savage beasts only driven by their instinct to feed, whenever they find a human.

Humans send down patrols, the GMT (Ground Mission Team) from time to time to gather some supplies, like electronic components to repair the city.

The first 3 books deal with the rise of a populist leader in the city, you'd swear he is Trump from the way he acts, except he is intelligent (that being the scariest part ;) ). The next 2 (or maybe 3, I think it's 6 books total...) deal with the continuation of the story and other problems arising.

They have a huge, huge problem with grammar.  I don't think I've ever read a book with so many grammar and spelling mistakes.  Inverted or skipped letters, wrong or missing pronoun, wrong or missing article, it's like there's something wrong every 3-4 pages.  It kinda distract from the reading.

All in all, not so bad despite not being highly original, except in its treatment of vampires.  I guess every author dealing with supernatural creatures bring his/her own mythology in it.

On the plus side, there is no boring love triangle, so no Twilight/Vampire Diaries stuff here.  Action, non descriptive sex and some lingering mystery on what really caused the widespread vampiric infection.

***/5.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 12, 2020, 09:19:01 PM
Are the vampires immortal?

Otherwise, shouldn't they have starved to death since they overran humanity and the survivors retreated to their city in the sky
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 12, 2020, 09:30:36 PM
Or they could feed on animals maybe.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on July 22, 2020, 10:16:57 AM
I am rereading the Lord of the Rings.  I read these books back in when I was about 12.  Now that I'm an adult I can appreciate the books quite a bit more.  For instance, I didn't know much about the imagine past of rural England as a sixth grader which is what the Shire is based on.  One funny thing:  Frodo's annoying relations are the Sackville-Bagginses and they are occasionally refereed to as S-Bs.  As a kid I thought the hyphen was censoring the letter "O", sort of like "G-D Damnit".  So I was under the impression Frodo was calling is relatives "Sons of Bitches".  I had forgotten all about that weird interpretation.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 28, 2020, 12:26:28 PM
^_^ Ah, Amazon...

Religion & Spirituality Books:
Hitler's Eastern Legions 1942–45

I miss Ed. :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 17, 2020, 03:31:03 PM
I finished Ian Kershaw's Hitler biography. I picked it up as unabridged audio book which ran at about 44 hours. A fascinating read and quite exhaustive. Though he seems to have cribbed the parts about the last few days in the bunker from the movie Downfall. :P

As paperback the book has 1,072 pages; it's abridged from the two part biography which was about twice as long. Or a a third longer? Getting confused info. :P While this was very good, I don't feel an immediate need to rush and get the two part version, though. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 17, 2020, 07:17:39 PM
Finished Bring Up the Bodies and started back over again with Wolf Hall.  Much, much less confusing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on August 17, 2020, 08:31:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 17, 2020, 07:17:39 PM
Finished Bring Up the Bodies and started back over again with Wolf Hall.  Much, much less confusing.

I passed the place last summer.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=3d506c2a-92ff-4f1d-9aba-723939655532&cp=51.355852~-1.654357&lvl=19&style=h&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027 (https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=3d506c2a-92ff-4f1d-9aba-723939655532&cp=51.355852~-1.654357&lvl=19&style=h&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on August 18, 2020, 02:26:19 AM
Quote from: mongers on August 17, 2020, 08:31:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 17, 2020, 07:17:39 PM
Finished Bring Up the Bodies and started back over again with Wolf Hall.  Much, much less confusing.

I passed the place last summer.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=3d506c2a-92ff-4f1d-9aba-723939655532&cp=51.355852~-1.654357&lvl=19&style=h&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027 (https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=3d506c2a-92ff-4f1d-9aba-723939655532&cp=51.355852~-1.654357&lvl=19&style=h&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027)

Oh wow, that's the original building? On the list, for the next trip to Wiltshire :nerd:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 20, 2020, 10:31:01 AM
Is anyone familiar with Prit Buttar's books about the Eastern Front of WW1 and WW2? Any good? :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 20, 2020, 08:38:15 PM
Read "A Mortal Bane" a murder mystery set in an upscale 12th century London brothel.

This author did her research, last year I read a history on prostitution in medieval England "Common Women" and the attitudes, behaviors, cultural beliefs, etc all seemed realistic.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 20, 2020, 09:11:29 PM
Did upscale mean they made the whores bathe at least once a week?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on August 20, 2020, 09:44:04 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 20, 2020, 09:11:29 PM
Did upscale mean they made the whores bathe at least once a week?

Upscale in the 12th C meant that every whore had at least one tooth.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 21, 2020, 06:57:42 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 20, 2020, 09:44:04 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 20, 2020, 09:11:29 PM
Did upscale mean they made the whores bathe at least once a week?

Upscale in the 12th C meant that every whore had at least one tooth.

So, like Alabama then.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 26, 2020, 05:51:47 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 20, 2020, 09:11:29 PM
Did upscale mean they made the whores bathe at least once a week?
5 pence a night.

The madam is an educated fallen noblewoman. Too beautiful for her own good, several men killed each other over her. She's the one who solves the mystery.

Also, though her three girls are all beautiful, one of them is blind, one is mute and the other is mentally five.

Customers pay for discretion after all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 26, 2020, 09:53:45 AM
So the author went for ultra-realism.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on September 04, 2020, 03:10:45 PM
Another history prize long-list - haven't read any but super-excited for Fifth Sun, Lakota America and Providence Lost on my wishlist. Some other very interesting looking books here too:
QuoteThe 2020 Cundill History Prize Longlist

Roderick Beaton
Greece: Biography of a Modern Nation
The University of Chicago Press

Vincent Brown
Tacky's Revolt: the Story of an Atlantic Slave War
Belknap Press of Harvard University Press

Zachary Carter
The Price of Peace: Money, Democracy, and the Life of John Maynard Keynes
Random House

William Dalrymple
The Anarchy: The Relentless Rise of the East India Company
Bloomsbury Publishing

Bathsheba Demuth
Floating Coast: an Environmental History of the Bering Strait
W. W. Norton & Company

Richard M. Eaton
India in the Persianate Age: 1000-1765
University of California Press

Eric Foner
The Second Founding: How the Civil War and Reconstruction Remade the Constitution
W. W. Norton & Company

Jóhanna Friðriksdóttir
Valkyrie: The Women of the Viking World
Bloomsbury Academic

Kim Ghattas
Black Wave: Saudi Arabia, Iran and the Rivalry that Unravelled the Middle East
Headline/Henry Holt & Co

Kerri Greenidge
Black Radical: the Life and Times of William Monroe Trotter
Liveright Publishing

Pekka Hämäläinen
Lakota America: a New History of Indigenous Power
Yale University Press

John Henderson
Florence Under Siege: Surviving Plague in an Early Modern City
Yale University Press

Rashid Khalidi
The Hundred Years' War on Palestine: a History of Settler Colonialism and Resistance, 1917-2017
Metropolitan Books/Henry Holt & Company

Paul Lay
Providence Lost: the Rise and Fall of Cromwell's Protectorate
Head of Zeus

Claudio Saunt
Unworthy Republic: the Dispossession of Native Americans and the Road to Indian Territory
W. W. Norton & Company

Camilla Townsend
Fifth Sun: A New History of the Aztecs
Oxford University Press USA
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 04, 2020, 03:19:09 PM
I like my Anarchy medieval, thank you very much.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on September 05, 2020, 10:01:46 PM
I got to know Susanna Clarke from the forum - yes, almost twenty years ago. I took about as much time for her to finish her second novel. I am looking forward to reading it.

https://www.vulture.com/article/susanna-clarke-piranesi.html?fbclid=IwAR2d59LRneufpDJ5X_4SjFVW2wAHtktxPwvjbTUCstj0FYz-ZvFGwmsicDM
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on September 05, 2020, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 04, 2020, 03:10:45 PM
Another history prize long-list - haven't read any but super-excited for Fifth Sun, Lakota America and Providence Lost on my wishlist.

I think it's the first year I don't know anyone on the jury. :lol:

I heard good things about Fifth Sun and Tacky's Rebellion. Have you read Hämäläinen's previous book, Comanche Empire? 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 06, 2020, 06:53:18 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 05, 2020, 10:01:46 PM
I got to know Susanna Clarke from the forum - yes, almost twenty years ago. I took about as much time for her to finish her second novel. I am looking forward to reading it.

https://www.vulture.com/article/susanna-clarke-piranesi.html?fbclid=IwAR2d59LRneufpDJ5X_4SjFVW2wAHtktxPwvjbTUCstj0FYz-ZvFGwmsicDM

I've been waiting for this!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 06, 2020, 11:30:28 PM
Did not realize Eric Foner was still writing...

Lakota America definitely intriguing.  How is Carter distinguishing his book from the Skidelsky bio?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on September 07, 2020, 03:58:48 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 06, 2020, 06:53:18 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 05, 2020, 10:01:46 PM
I got to know Susanna Clarke from the forum - yes, almost twenty years ago. I took about as much time for her to finish her second novel. I am looking forward to reading it.

https://www.vulture.com/article/susanna-clarke-piranesi.html?fbclid=IwAR2d59LRneufpDJ5X_4SjFVW2wAHtktxPwvjbTUCstj0FYz-ZvFGwmsicDM

I've been waiting for this!

Has a very positive review in the Times at the weekend.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on September 07, 2020, 06:57:37 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 05, 2020, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 04, 2020, 03:10:45 PM
Another history prize long-list - haven't read any but super-excited for Fifth Sun, Lakota America and Providence Lost on my wishlist.

I think it's the first year I don't know anyone on the jury. :lol:

I heard good things about Fifth Sun and Tacky's Rebellion. Have you read Hämäläinen's previous book, Comanche Empire?
I've not - it's also on the wishlist though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on September 11, 2020, 02:53:49 AM
Having seen Greyhound I ordered The Good Shepherd. I don't normally read very much war novels, but last year I read the Cruel Sea and my eyes kind of opened.

The movie was god, but I felt that it did not convey the length of time that the battle lasted. The book, much like the movie, centers around Commander Krause and his viewpoint. Great book giving a feel of how utterly horrible the battle of the Atlantic must have been. Not really up to the level of the Cruel Sea, but still excellent.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 11, 2020, 06:27:39 AM
The second and third commandments be damned?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 11, 2020, 06:36:31 AM
Quote from: Threviel on September 11, 2020, 02:53:49 AM
Having seen Greyhound I ordered The Good Shepherd. I don't normally read very much war novels, but last year I read the Cruel Sea and my eyes kind of opened.

The movie was god, but I felt that it did not convey the length of time that the battle lasted. The book, much like the movie, centers around Commander Krause and his viewpoint. Great book giving a feel of how utterly horrible the battle of the Atlantic must have been. Not really up to the level of the Cruel Sea, but still excellent.

Re-read the Cruel Sea recently. That was one brutal book.

Perhaps the most horrific scene was when a young officer had to take care of a rescued sailor suffering terrible burns ... and all he had was a small tube of burn ointment (and zero knowledge of
Medicine). Or perhaps when the crew of the escort was forced to watch as the crew of a burning tanker tried, but failed, to outswim the spread of burning oil from the tanker.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on September 11, 2020, 06:51:14 AM
Stuff of nightmares from someone that was there for the whole war. Just absolutely nightmarish. And the merchant seamen were treated quite badly after the war.

Swedish sailors that were caught outside the North Sea when war started couldn't return for the duration. When they returned they could be arrested for evading military service and most of them got into serious trouble with regards to their taxes due to not declaring their income during the war. It wasn't until the late 90's that their services were recognized.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on September 11, 2020, 09:17:08 AM
In both the US and the UK, no service suffered a greater death rate than the merchant marine (27% KIA for the UK, 4% KIA for the US).  I haven't seen numbers for the Canadians, but I suspect that they are about half-way between those numbers.  I know that the Dutch merchant marine suffered heavy losses as well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 11, 2020, 09:27:45 AM
Cline is writing an update to 1177 which will be out in February.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 11, 2020, 12:06:27 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 11, 2020, 09:17:08 AM
In both the US and the UK, no service suffered a greater death rate than the merchant marine (27% KIA for the UK, 4% KIA for the US).  I haven't seen numbers for the Canadians, but I suspect that they are about half-way between those numbers.  I know that the Dutch merchant marine suffered heavy losses as well.

Good estimate.

Casualties for the Canadian merchant marine during WW2 were one in seven, or approximately 14%, according to this cite.

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/history/historical-sheets/merchant
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on September 11, 2020, 12:24:58 PM
Reading up and on it surprises me. Sweden lost about 2000 sailors and 270 ships.

In the battle of the Atlantic 36000 merchant seamen died and 3500 ships went down.

I don't know how many Swedes died trading with Germany, but presumably a big part since the German trade was called the "death trade".

Big numbers for a small nation. Norway by comparison lost about 3000 seamen.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on September 11, 2020, 01:02:52 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 11, 2020, 09:17:08 AM
In both the US and the UK, no service suffered a greater death rate than the merchant marine (27% KIA for the UK, 4% KIA for the US).  I haven't seen numbers for the Canadians, but I suspect that they are about half-way between those numbers.  I know that the Dutch merchant marine suffered heavy losses as well.

According to https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/history/historical-sheets/merchant 12,000 Canadians served in the merchant nacy, with 1500 dead, for a 12.5% KIA rate.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on September 11, 2020, 01:34:05 PM
Supposedly the German sailors in the U-boat service suffered 75% casualties (and given the nature of their service I wouldn't be surprised if the large majority of those were KIA). That is a pretty crazy for an entire service arm.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on September 11, 2020, 02:19:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 11, 2020, 01:34:05 PM
Supposedly the German sailors in the U-boat service suffered 75% casualties (and given the nature of their service I wouldn't be surprised if the large majority of those were KIA). That is a pretty crazy for an entire service arm.

Yep.  Doenitz kept sending out the boats even when he knew it was suicidal.  US submariners suffered something like 10% casualties.

Another fun fact:  more US sailors died off the shore of Guadalcanal than US Marines died on the shore... but the US Marines have this mantra that the "US Navy abandoned us on Guadalcanal."  In fact, many more US sailors were KIA on November 13, 1942 (First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal) than Marines died in the whole campaign.  Ungrateful bastards!  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on September 12, 2020, 10:00:01 AM
Well you are just a taxi service to them. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on September 12, 2020, 03:37:35 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 12, 2020, 10:00:01 AM
Well you are just a taxi service to them. :P

Marine = My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment.

Actually, I really enjoyed working with US Marines.  They are the most "real" of the US services, in that they are totally mission-oriented and they don't let bureaucratic shit get in their way.  If their tanks are Army cast-offs, they just get on with it. 

(https://img.ifunny.co/images/588c58e71fdaf474090c33590920b04cf4912b62bcbd0ebe8a4502e6e5371222_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 24, 2020, 03:54:09 AM
What's a good book on the campaign in the West in 1940, or the early war (1939-40) in general? I'm especially interested in Allied war plans and strategy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 24, 2020, 05:59:17 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 24, 2020, 03:54:09 AM
What's a good book on the campaign in the West in 1940, or the early war (1939-40) in general? I'm especially interested in Allied war plans and strategy.
Spoiler [spoiler]They were bad[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 24, 2020, 06:05:45 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 24, 2020, 03:54:09 AM
What's a good book on the campaign in the West in 1940, or the early war (1939-40) in general? I'm especially interested in Allied war plans and strategy.

James Holland's War in the West books have been on my wish list for a while. So far there's two volumes, each over 800 pages.
Volume 1: Germany Ascendant 1939-1941
Volume 2: The Allies Fight Back 1941-1943

I don't know if they're any good, but they review well on Amazon; take that for what you will. :P

The market crier flap text kinda puts me off, tbh.

QuoteAre you ready for the truth about World War Two? The Second World War is the most cataclysmic and violent sequence of events in recent times. But for the past seven decades, our understanding of it has relied upon conventional wisdom, propaganda and an interpretation skewed by the information available. James Holland has spent over twelve years conducting new research, interviewing survivors, visiting battlefields and archives that have never before been so accessible and challenging too-long-held assumptions about the war that shaped our world. In Germany Ascendant, the first part of this ground-breaking new history, James Holland introduces the war, beginning with the lead-up to its outbreak in 1939 and taking us up to mid-1941 as the Nazis prepared to unleash Operation Barbarossa, the invasion of Russia. To tell the real story, he weaves together the experiences of dozens of individuals, from civilians and soldiers, to sailors, pilots, leading military strategists, industrialists and heads of state, and uncovers the strategy, tactics and events that informed not only the military aspects of the war but also the economic, political, and social aspects too. The War in the West is a truly monumental history of the war on land, in the air, and at sea. In it, James Holland has created a captivating and epic narrative which redefines and enhances our understanding of one of the most significant conflicts in history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 24, 2020, 07:52:16 AM
Thanks. I see what you mean. I think I'll get it, at least it's cheap.

MOAR TIPS PLS
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 24, 2020, 10:22:12 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 24, 2020, 06:05:45 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 24, 2020, 03:54:09 AM
What's a good book on the campaign in the West in 1940, or the early war (1939-40) in general? I'm especially interested in Allied war plans and strategy.

James Holland's War in the West books have been on my wish list for a while. So far there's two volumes, each over 800 pages.
Volume 1: Germany Ascendant 1939-1941
Volume 2: The Allies Fight Back 1941-1943

I don't know if they're any good, but they review well on Amazon; take that for what you will. :P

The market crier flap text kinda puts me off, tbh.

QuoteAre you ready for the truth about World War Two? The Second World War is the most cataclysmic and violent sequence of events in recent times. But for the past seven decades, our understanding of it has relied upon conventional wisdom, propaganda and an interpretation skewed by the information available. James Holland has spent over twelve years conducting new research, interviewing survivors, visiting battlefields and archives that have never before been so accessible and challenging too-long-held assumptions about the war that shaped our world. In Germany Ascendant, the first part of this ground-breaking new history, James Holland introduces the war, beginning with the lead-up to its outbreak in 1939 and taking us up to mid-1941 as the Nazis prepared to unleash Operation Barbarossa, the invasion of Russia. To tell the real story, he weaves together the experiences of dozens of individuals, from civilians and soldiers, to sailors, pilots, leading military strategists, industrialists and heads of state, and uncovers the strategy, tactics and events that informed not only the military aspects of the war but also the economic, political, and social aspects too. The War in the West is a truly monumental history of the war on land, in the air, and at sea. In it, James Holland has created a captivating and epic narrative which redefines and enhances our understanding of one of the most significant conflicts in history.

Heh I love the blurb - that appears to imply no-one knows the "truth" about WW2 except this guy. 😄

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 24, 2020, 10:29:11 AM
Yeah, but to be fair, an editor/marketing guy might have written it with limited input from the author. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on September 24, 2020, 10:46:59 AM
I like even more the advert for "The War in the West Trilogy (2 book series)"  :lol:

This guy is so good that he can write a trilogy in only two books!

The series reeks of amateur hour, but the author has some other serious history books under his belt, so this might just be that he's chosen a crappy publisher this time.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on September 24, 2020, 10:54:35 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 24, 2020, 10:22:12 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 24, 2020, 06:05:45 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 24, 2020, 03:54:09 AM
What's a good book on the campaign in the West in 1940, or the early war (1939-40) in general? I'm especially interested in Allied war plans and strategy.

James Holland's War in the West books have been on my wish list for a while. So far there's two volumes, each over 800 pages.
Volume 1: Germany Ascendant 1939-1941
Volume 2: The Allies Fight Back 1941-1943

I don't know if they're any good, but they review well on Amazon; take that for what you will. :P

The market crier flap text kinda puts me off, tbh.

QuoteAre you ready for the truth about World War Two? The Second World War is the most cataclysmic and violent sequence of events in recent times. But for the past seven decades, our understanding of it has relied upon conventional wisdom, propaganda and an interpretation skewed by the information available. James Holland has spent over twelve years conducting new research, interviewing survivors, visiting battlefields and archives that have never before been so accessible and challenging too-long-held assumptions about the war that shaped our world. In Germany Ascendant, the first part of this ground-breaking new history, James Holland introduces the war, beginning with the lead-up to its outbreak in 1939 and taking us up to mid-1941 as the Nazis prepared to unleash Operation Barbarossa, the invasion of Russia. To tell the real story, he weaves together the experiences of dozens of individuals, from civilians and soldiers, to sailors, pilots, leading military strategists, industrialists and heads of state, and uncovers the strategy, tactics and events that informed not only the military aspects of the war but also the economic, political, and social aspects too. The War in the West is a truly monumental history of the war on land, in the air, and at sea. In it, James Holland has created a captivating and epic narrative which redefines and enhances our understanding of one of the most significant conflicts in history.

Heh I love the blurb - that appears to imply no-one knows the "truth" about WW2 except this guy. 😄
World War 2: The Greatest Story Never Told :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 24, 2020, 10:54:48 AM
Reading up more on him, James Holland seems more interested in the human experience rather than the who did what when and why - which still has its place, I think Max Hastings' All Hell Let Loose is an excellent book, for example - but probably not something to look to if you want to learn about the campaigns themselves.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on September 24, 2020, 11:01:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 24, 2020, 10:29:11 AM
Yeah, but to be fair, an editor/marketing guy might have written it with limited input from the author. :P

I'm willing to extend the benefit of that doubt. 😉

As an aside, my favourite back blurb for any book was for Ian Banks'  *The Wasp Factory*. When Banks wrote it he was still an unknown author, and the reviews were scathing: "This book is garbage that will appeal only to perverts", that sort of thing. Banks (or his publisher) collected all the most scathing reviews, and put them on the back cover (and more on the first couple of pages inside)! 😄

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/iain-banks-in-the-end-we-ll-be-smiling-1.1350434?mode=amp
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 24, 2020, 11:03:42 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 25, 2020, 01:28:47 PM
I ordered Holland's book, and also Julian Jackson's The Fall Of France.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on September 30, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
So saw someone on Twitter talking about this book:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0674986393?pf_rd_r=KFJ3N29TP1YFTXTKH1RX&pf_rd_p=e632fea2-678f-4848-9a97-bcecda59cb4e

Which looks really interesting. In particular flagging the author approaching Mussolini's Italy through the story of a marraige, apparently very successfully.

I mentioned a story about a friend's family which I swear could be used as a basis for a book. He's Ukrainian and his grandfather was Italian. The grandfather was fighting in the A-H army in WW1 and got captured as a prisoner of war by the Russians and was put in a POW camp in Ukraine. The POW camp was fairly relaxed so he ended up getting to know people in the nearby village and fell in love with a local girl. After the war they married. In the twenties they go to Italy where they are treated with a huge amount of suspicion because they've come from the USSR, so they eventually give up and return to the USSR where they're suspected of being Fascists. So they get deported to Kazakhstan until the 50s/60s (basically post-Stalin) when they finally are able to move back to the village with an old POW camp nearby.

Obviously the Italian fascist story is different, but it just seems like there's so many interesting personal stories out there that could be told that would also, in some way be the story of the regimes/systems those people were in. It's something I always wonder about - and have this book (https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lsereviewofbooks/2018/02/26/book-review-the-house-of-government-a-saga-of-the-russian-revolution-by-yuri-slezkine/) which sounds on point and will hopefully be interesting once I get to it :mellow:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 07, 2020, 10:15:31 AM
I started on a collection of texts about Charles XII's Ottoman exile, published by the Swedish Army Museum. The first text claimed that Sweden in those days wasn't a dictatorship. Er what? The king held absolute power FFS. So I stopped reading the first text and started on the second (different author). Trundled along merrily until it said that the Safavids' time on the Peacock Throne came to an end in 1722. Er what? Nevermind a discussion about the exact year, the Peacock Throne that was still in India at the time? Things like these make me doubt everything they say that I don't already know, which makes reading it less than useful and attractive. Sigh. Maybe I'll try the rest of the book again at some later point, right now I'll move on to something else.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on October 07, 2020, 12:58:33 PM
Absolutism =/= dictatorship.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 07, 2020, 01:05:13 PM
I was thinking of some old school fantasy escapism, and lookie here, there's a HumbleBundle with a bunch of DnD books by R.A. Salvatore.

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/salvatore-showcase?hmb_source=navbar&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=tile_index_6

I was annoyed that books 1-6 of his Drizzt series are not part of it, but then I realized I bought a DnD book bundle on Humble a few years ago that included those books, plus a few more. Oops.  :blush: So I guess I'm covered for now. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 07, 2020, 03:53:30 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 07, 2020, 12:58:33 PM
Absolutism =/= dictatorship.

Maybe in some cases, but hardly in this case.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 07, 2020, 08:52:02 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 07, 2020, 12:58:33 PM
Absolutism =/= dictatorship.

The only difference i can think of is the legitimacy conferred by heredity.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on October 07, 2020, 09:10:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 07, 2020, 08:52:02 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 07, 2020, 12:58:33 PM
Absolutism =/= dictatorship.

The only difference i can think of is the legitimacy conferred by heredity.

It's a pretty big difference, but it's one whose consequences and effects can be difficult to grasp. Absolutism belongs to a world where liberty is understood above all as privilege competing with other legitimate forms of authority and privilege (notably history and time). An absolute king - a relative novelty in the history of kingship - is a king wrestling with the idea of the state, because states provides new frames of reference re: history and time. 

A dictator - at least post Roman era - is a man of power wrestling with the idea of popular sovereignty. It's circumstances that brought him there, as a temporary guardian of power resting somewhere else. Dictatorship has to pay hommage to the fact that "society" is something that exist independent of the dictator's will.

Now, this may seem like irrelevant detail if arbitrary power is the only thing that seems to matter in both cases. But that's more or less the point: how, and to whom, that arbitrary power is justified, is what sets them apart. Toppling a dictator is something that has historically been envisioned way more frequently than toppling an absolute king. Even the exercise of power depends on ways of thinking - about functions and identites - that are difficult to conflate between 17th-18th c. Europe and 19th-20th century Europe.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 08, 2020, 02:15:26 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 07, 2020, 09:10:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 07, 2020, 08:52:02 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 07, 2020, 12:58:33 PM
Absolutism =/= dictatorship.

The only difference i can think of is the legitimacy conferred by heredity.

It's a pretty big difference, but it's one whose consequences and effects can be difficult to grasp. Absolutism belongs to a world where liberty is understood above all as privilege competing with other legitimate forms of authority and privilege (notably history and time). An absolute king - a relative novelty in the history of kingship - is a king wrestling with the idea of the state, because states provides new frames of reference re: history and time. 

A dictator - at least post Roman era - is a man of power wrestling with the idea of popular sovereignty. It's circumstances that brought him there, as a temporary guardian of power resting somewhere else. Dictatorship has to pay hommage to the fact that "society" is something that exist independent of the dictator's will.

Now, this may seem like irrelevant detail if arbitrary power is the only thing that seems to matter in both cases. But that's more or less the point: how, and to whom, that arbitrary power is justified, is what sets them apart. Toppling a dictator is something that has historically been envisioned way more frequently than toppling an absolute king. Even the exercise of power depends on ways of thinking - about functions and identites - that are difficult to conflate between 17th-18th c. Europe and 19th-20th century Europe.

I don't see any argument here that makes the difference big enough to change absolutism into not being a dictatorship. Sorry.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 08, 2020, 04:01:01 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 07, 2020, 08:52:02 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 07, 2020, 12:58:33 PM
Absolutism =/= dictatorship.

The only difference i can think of is the legitimacy conferred by heredity.
In my head dictatorship requires a modern sort of post-1789 state. It's more intrusive and more effective. There's something modern about it - I read dictator and I think of 20th century dictators or Francia, not fools in old-style hats and capes.

Absolutism is more early modern. It doesn't have a state, it's around one (crowned) person. They generally diddn't necessarily want to govern in as instrusive a way as a dictator, and even if they wanted to lacked the state capacity around them.

Although I feel like absolutism can build up state capacity :mellow:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 08, 2020, 05:08:59 AM
If the state in a dictatorship has to be more intrusive and effective than the Swedish state under Charles XII, then my impression is that many modern-era third world rulers with absolute power would not be dictators, which strikes me as a strange idea.

If hereditary power means that it's not a dictatorship then latest decades North Korea, or Haiti under Baby Doc, were not dictatorships. Again, this strikes me as a strange idea, and a rabbit hole the attraction of which eludes me.

To me it seems weird and unnecessary to artificially limit the meaning of dictatorship. There's a world of difference between Cincinnatus and Hitler, but they were both dictators. And the spectrum between them is very wide, certainly wide enough to accomodate most absolute rulers I'm aware of (the exact positions of individuals at the very extremes can be discussed endlessly).

To add a more general point, I think that a preference for era exceptionalism doesn't help with actually understanding history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 08, 2020, 05:38:58 AM
Thinking about it I think Oex's explanation gets at what I mean more - and it's possible less to do with state capacity than the concept of the state.

Absolutism operates in a world where there's lots of loyalties and authorities and formal divisions across society that all have rights and are partly self-governing: all of the town charters, the fueros, the church, the rights of each class or estate, feudal ties, local courts or parlements, the republic of the Indians. All of which interlink and there's a monarch at the top. It's society as family tree, lots of branches doing their won thing. Absolutism to me is the monarchic system that either those rights and authorities don't exist because as a divinely appointed monarch they overrule it, or that tries to rationalise all of those so they feed into the monarchy.

Dictatorship to me is more of an up-and-down ladder. The leader, to which the state answers and the people. There may be alternate loyalties and, in effect, different rights like the military but that's not by purpose and is normally just a reflection of multiple competing power-bases, rather than an ordered and deliberate world. It may just be that dictatorships haven't lasted as long as monarchies so they aren't necessarily institutionalised. Maybe absolute monarchies are what dictatorships look like after a few hundred years from direct power of a local warlord to a more elaborate system. If I was reading a book I'd understand them slightly differently - not to bang on about Hobbes but in my head you need that idea of the Hobbesian state/sovereign to have dictatorship.

I think dictators and monarchs, Cincinnatus and Hitler are all autocrats. But yeah to me I would think they're different. And I'm afraid I have no idea about the Swedish state or monarchy so it may have swept away all those Medieval legacies earlier and actually been closer to a dictatorship.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on October 08, 2020, 09:33:11 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 08, 2020, 05:38:58 AMIf I was reading a book I'd understand them slightly differently - not to bang on about Hobbes but in my head you need that idea of the Hobbesian state/sovereign to have dictatorship.

That's it. To put it in more abstract terms, the Hobbesian state does away with the notion that things are the unchanging reflections of who people fundamentally are; states become actual creations that can therefore be influenced and modified. How? That's what absolutist kings will try to figure out. The modern state meanwhile will no longer be that lone apparatus: it will be locked in contention with the sort of constraints that people collectively and unknowingly create: society. What that means is that people are no longer brought to obey because of who they are, but because of what they do. This is very alien to someone of the 17th century.

It's not about era exceptionalism, it's about understanding time period on their own terms, rather than flattening them all into being reflections of our own experiences. Otherwise, some things become impossible to understand. Why do kings in the 16th century start chopping heads of their powerful courtiers, when kings of past eras generally didn't? Why do most dictators of the 20th century bother with a constitution? Were the expectations of obedience the same under Louis XIV as they were under Mussolini?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 08, 2020, 10:03:35 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 08, 2020, 09:33:11 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 08, 2020, 05:38:58 AMIf I was reading a book I'd understand them slightly differently - not to bang on about Hobbes but in my head you need that idea of the Hobbesian state/sovereign to have dictatorship.

That's it. To put it in more abstract terms, the Hobbesian state does away with the notion that things are the unchanging reflections of who people fundamentally are; states become actual creations that can therefore be influenced and modified. How? That's what absolutist kings will try to figure out. The modern state meanwhile will no longer be that lone apparatus: it will be locked in contention with the sort of constraints that people collectively and unknowingly create: society. What that means is that people are no longer brought to obey because of who they are, but because of what they do. This is very alien to someone of the 17th century.

It's not about era exceptionalism, it's about understanding time period on their own terms, rather than flattening them all into being reflections of our own experiences. Otherwise, some things become impossible to understand. Why do kings in the 16th century start chopping heads of their powerful courtiers, when kings of past eras generally didn't? Why do most dictators of the 20th century bother with a constitution? Were the expectations of obedience the same under Louis XIV as they were under Mussolini?

To add to that, Brain's analysis expressly equates Cincinnatus with Hitler, while acknowledging that there is "a world of difference between them" he dismisses all of that difference by simply saying "they are both dictators".   One of the differences is that Cincinnatus both gained and gave up power according to the norms and laws of the early Roman republic which anticipated Hobbes by recognizing that there were times when a Leviathan is needed if only for a limited period of time.  Modern day dictators warp the norms and laws of their societies to become an approximation of Leviathan but lacking the legitimacy which would otherwise attach to the exercise of that power if accepted norms and laws had been followed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 08, 2020, 01:28:51 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 08, 2020, 09:33:11 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 08, 2020, 05:38:58 AMIf I was reading a book I'd understand them slightly differently - not to bang on about Hobbes but in my head you need that idea of the Hobbesian state/sovereign to have dictatorship.

That's it. To put it in more abstract terms, the Hobbesian state does away with the notion that things are the unchanging reflections of who people fundamentally are; states become actual creations that can therefore be influenced and modified.

That's is abstract, perhaps overly so.  Pre-Hobbesian monarchs and princes often interacted with states as creations that could be influenced and modified.  Machiavelli most obviously is pre-Hobbes, as is Jean Bodin.  But even before that there is considerable evidence of conscious state building and institutional design in the High Middle Ages or even the Carolingian era.   And if one leaves the little European backwater (e.g. China) then one can go well far before that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 08, 2020, 01:35:44 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 08, 2020, 10:03:35 AM
  One of the differences is that Cincinnatus both gained and gave up power according to the norms and laws of the early Roman republic which anticipated Hobbes by recognizing that there were times when a Leviathan is needed if only for a limited period of time.  Modern day dictators warp the norms and laws of their societies to become an approximation of Leviathan but lacking the legitimacy which would otherwise attach to the exercise of that power if accepted norms and laws had been followed.

We are risk of falling into the semantic rabbit hole: "Dictator" is name for a particular office under the Roman Republic - one that changed over time - but is also and English word of common usage connoting any ruler at any time with pretenses towards exercise of total or absolute power.  In the latter common English sense an absolutist monarch could qualify, although of course one can make meaningful distinctions between 17th/18th century monarchies on the one hand and both the Roman Republic dictator and 20th century dictators on the other.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on October 08, 2020, 01:48:54 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 08, 2020, 01:28:51 PMBut even before that there is considerable evidence of conscious state building and institutional design in the High Middle Ages or even the Carolingian era.   

I disagree with these interpretations, or at least the strong versions of them, which generally have been suggested by medievists who seem to think that state-building lends validation to their research, i.e., that medieval people were not "unsophisticated".  That there is the survival of something like the "res publica" amidst medieval jurists and kings is one thing. That it coincides with the specificities of post 16th century states is far from certain. To put it otherwise: what we read as "institutions", medieval people usually read as "bodies". We read them through their outcomes, and it's therefore easy to disregard how they operated to focus on outcomes, and claim they are the same. They read them through their representations.

The case of China is different - which makes it more interesting. The problem is that most of Chinese historiography is consumed with the issue of modernity (again, asserting that China was "modern" before Europe), which means that the research / conceptual questions is already skewed towards establishing sophistication. 

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on October 08, 2020, 01:56:51 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 08, 2020, 01:35:44 PM
We are risk of falling into the semantic rabbit hole...

It's not really a semantic rabbit hole - it's the heart of history of ideas, including history of political ideas. We always have to struggle with the fact that words have a history, and that what we read one way today was not read with the same way in the past. Favorite examples include: State, Republic, King, Corporation, etc., etc., etc. Unless one wants to claim it's all the same, really, in which case we are left with quite blunt instruments like "the few", "the many", "power" and "violence". A lot of ink was spilled, in the 16th, 17th, and 18th century on the definition of "tyrant" precisely because the subtleties of such definitions had very real political consequences.

There is a difference between communicating bluntly some aspects of power for a contemporary audience (here, it seems to be arbitrary power) and studying the subtleties of difficult concepts to gain some access to past realities. What the Swedish War Museum sought to do here, I do not know. I just know that, for most serious historians, absolutism and dictatorship are not synonymous.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 08, 2020, 04:32:26 PM
I am now reading First To Fight, by Moorhouse, to prepare me for the books on the campaign in the West. I'm not an expert on the Polish campaign, but the book seems nice so far. That being said its focus is the human drama, it's not a detailed military history of the conflict.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 08, 2020, 04:40:23 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 08, 2020, 01:35:44 PM
We are risk of falling into the semantic rabbit hole: "Dictator" is name for a particular office under the Roman Republic - one that changed over time - but is also and English word of common usage connoting any ruler at any time with pretenses towards exercise of total or absolute power.  In the latter common English sense an absolutist monarch could qualify, although of course one can make meaningful distinctions between 17th/18th century monarchies on the one hand and both the Roman Republic dictator and 20th century dictators on the other.
So I know nothing about Roman history and wouldn't get involved in that. But if someone asked me if, say, Charles I or Louis XIV was a dictator or even trying to be a dictator I feel liked I'd say "sort of, but". While - I wouldn't hesitate with saying the great totalitarians are dictators. And I sort of feel like there's value in trying to understand that difference. The interesting stuff is often in the "yes, but" answers.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 08, 2020, 05:16:41 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 08, 2020, 01:35:44 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 08, 2020, 10:03:35 AM
  One of the differences is that Cincinnatus both gained and gave up power according to the norms and laws of the early Roman republic which anticipated Hobbes by recognizing that there were times when a Leviathan is needed if only for a limited period of time.  Modern day dictators warp the norms and laws of their societies to become an approximation of Leviathan but lacking the legitimacy which would otherwise attach to the exercise of that power if accepted norms and laws had been followed.

We are risk of falling into the semantic rabbit hole: "Dictator" is name for a particular office under the Roman Republic - one that changed over time - but is also and English word of common usage connoting any ruler at any time with pretenses towards exercise of total or absolute power.  In the latter common English sense an absolutist monarch could qualify, although of course one can make meaningful distinctions between 17th/18th century monarchies on the one hand and both the Roman Republic dictator and 20th century dictators on the other.

The reason we use the word of Roman origin for our own modern version of a dictator is that the Roman office held many of the same powers.  But there are of course differences which I started to describe.  I agree with Oex that using that term for a Monarchy is a bit of a stretch.  It is similar to the mistake of thinking about Feudal territories as states or countries.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 09, 2020, 05:32:50 PM
Started on Julian Jackson's The Fall Of France. The author writes "In the 'Battle of Hannut', which was the first tank battle in history (in the First World War there had only been tanks on the Allied side), ...". Er... wut? I'd like to think that a Professor of Modern History knows about German tanks in WW1 (both German built and captured Allied tanks), and knows about the Polish campaign in 1939, and possibly about the Spanish Civil War or the Sino-Japanese War or Khalkhin Gol (I don't remember if there was real tank-on-tank combat in these)... If he thinks that all previous tank battles were too insignificant to be considered real tank battles (maybe not obviously unreasonable, but fairly pointless), then he probably should say so to avoid uncertainty. The same with the number of German tanks in WW1. Fuck. I had high hopes for this book. I might continue reading it, but if I do it will be with a big bag of salt at hand.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 09, 2020, 06:05:58 PM
The first tank on tank battle is usually thought to have been the second battle of Villers-Bretonneux, where three British Mark IV tanks fought three German A7Vs - in 1918.

The Battle of Hannut was certainly the largest tank on tank battle up to its time, but clearly not the first  - unless the earlier ones don't count as being too insignificant.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on October 10, 2020, 04:20:22 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 09, 2020, 06:05:58 PM
The first tank on tank battle is usually thought to have been the second battle of Villers-Bretonneux, where three British Mark IV tanks fought three German A7Vs - in 1918.

Interesting; I'm fairly sure in older history books the first tank on tank battle was listed as an engagement between British tanks and British tanks captured by the Germans (a male and 2 female tanks on one of the sides?) Unfortunately, I am certain I don't have that reference in my somewhat limited personal library and it's not obviously online anywhere.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 10, 2020, 04:34:25 AM
Started on Holland's The War In The West: Germany Ascendant 1939-1941. The first thing in the book is a map of the world from Alaska to Persia, labeled July 1939. Finland appears to have been given its post-1944 borders. Sigh. I don't get these things. It's at best incredibly sloppy, and at worst extremely ignorant. I will probably try the text, see if it's better. The book is on double secret probation though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 10, 2020, 08:06:18 AM
Having published history books, i can tell you that the author has little control over what maps appear and how accurate they are.  Don't judge a book's text by its maps.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 10, 2020, 09:13:25 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 10, 2020, 08:06:18 AM
Having published history books, i can tell you that the author has little control over what maps appear and how accurate they are.  Don't judge a book's text by its maps.

Indeed. If the author's text had said "1944 borders trololol", then I would have stopped reading instantly. I hope the text holds up, and I haven't come across anything too bad so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on October 10, 2020, 09:57:02 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 10, 2020, 08:06:18 AM
Having published history books, i can tell you that the author has little control over what maps appear and how accurate they are.  Don't judge a book's text by its maps.

But the author should have had a chance to look at the final proof.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 10, 2020, 10:01:22 AM
Quote from: Josephus on October 10, 2020, 09:57:02 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 10, 2020, 08:06:18 AM
Having published history books, i can tell you that the author has little control over what maps appear and how accurate they are.  Don't judge a book's text by its maps.

But the author should have had a chance to look at the final proof.

He might get a chance to look at it, but he cannot force any changes to anything except the text.  If he says the map isn't accurate and the publisher says "I don't care," then the inaccurate map is what get published.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on October 10, 2020, 03:25:06 PM
Brainy should perhaps stop reading popular histories and rather dive in to academic discourses.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 10, 2020, 03:26:19 PM
Quote from: Threviel on October 10, 2020, 03:25:06 PM
Brainy should perhaps stop reading popular histories and rather dive in to academic discourses.

What's a good academic text on early WW2 Allied strategy?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 10, 2020, 03:29:02 PM
Might be worth seeing if any of those recent books you've bought have decent bibliographies? That's normally my first go to - get a generalist book and check bibliography for more detailed/interesting direction.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on October 10, 2020, 03:30:25 PM
I don't know, I'm not even qualified enough to find the faults that you find.

It's just that you know very much and many popular histories are, as you yourself often prove, of dubious quality. To deepen your understanding you should perhaps give academia a chance. I'm quite sure that there are a few doctoral thesises around about the early war in the west. glhf.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 10, 2020, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: Threviel on October 10, 2020, 03:30:25 PM
I don't know, I'm not even qualified enough to find the faults that you find.

It's just that you know very much and many popular histories are, as you yourself often prove, of dubious quality. To deepen your understanding you should perhaps give academia a chance. I'm quite sure that there are a few doctoral thesises around about the early war in the west. glhf.

You certainly have a point. It's just that when I read a popular history by a real historian from academia, and s/he doesn't stay on the fairway, I get frustrated, and in my rage I forget the riddle of steel and leave it on the battlefield.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 10, 2020, 03:39:32 PM
What is there left to understand about France 1940?

I enjoyed Len Deighton's "Blitzkrieg" but I think it will not meet your standards.  He was primarily a writer of spy novels.

It has some nice drawings.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 10, 2020, 03:43:22 PM
The problem with trying to read doctoral theses is that getting a PhD pretty much requires that you abandon any skill you have in writing.  That wasn't always true, but any PhD thesis written in the era before writing got all the juice sucked out of it is going to be obsolete.

Brain come over to the dark side and read about the pacific War.  There's a fair few good books in that field that are fun to read and academically sound.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 10, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 10, 2020, 03:39:32 PM
What is there left to understand about France 1940?

I enjoyed Len Deighton's "Blitzkrieg" but I think it will not meet your standards.  He was primarily a writer of spy novels.

It has some nice drawings.  :)

I don't know enough about Allied war plans and the reasons for them, or whether or not there was a realistic way to stop a German victory against France in 1940.

I read Deighton's book many moons ago. It was one of my sources when I did a major report (specialarbete) on the fall of France in 12th grade. The teacher said it was the best specialarbete she had ever seen. I asked her if she could put that into writing. She said no. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 10, 2020, 03:48:00 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 10, 2020, 03:43:22 PM
The problem with trying to read doctoral theses is that getting a PhD pretty much requires that you abandon any skill you have in writing.  That wasn't always true, but any PhD thesis written in the era before writing got all the juice sucked out of it is going to be obsolete.

Brain come over to the dark side and read about the pacific War.  There's a fair few good books in that field that are fun to read and academically sound.

Thanks, g-dude. My "ooh, shiny!" attention span will probably wander into the Pacific again reasonably soon. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 10, 2020, 04:01:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 10, 2020, 03:39:32 PM
What is there left to understand about France 1940?

I enjoyed Len Deighton's "Blitzkrieg" but I think it will not meet your standards.  He was primarily a writer of spy novels.

It has some nice drawings.  :)
And some pretty good cookbooks :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 10, 2020, 04:32:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 10, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
I don't know enough about Allied war plans and the reasons for them, or whether or not there was a realistic way to stop a German victory against France in 1940.

I read Deighton's book many moons ago. It was one of my sources when I did a major report (specialarbete) on the fall of France in 12th grade. The teacher said it was the best specialarbete she had ever seen. I asked her if she could put that into writing. She said no. :)

Did it set you specially free?  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 10, 2020, 04:36:08 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 10, 2020, 04:32:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 10, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
I don't know enough about Allied war plans and the reasons for them, or whether or not there was a realistic way to stop a German victory against France in 1940.

I read Deighton's book many moons ago. It was one of my sources when I did a major report (specialarbete) on the fall of France in 12th grade. The teacher said it was the best specialarbete she had ever seen. I asked her if she could put that into writing. She said no. :)

Did it set you specially free?  :)

Too soon. :angry: This was in 1994.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2020, 09:14:42 PM
For some reason my experience buying Hillary Mantel at Barnes and Noble popped into my head.  I asked the clerk to do an author search on Teh Wolf Hall trilogy, and he asked me how to spell wolf.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 12, 2020, 08:02:10 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2020, 09:14:42 PM
For some reason my experience buying Hillary Mantel at Barnes and Noble popped into my head.  I asked the clerk to do an author search on Teh Wolf Hall trilogy, and he asked me how to spell wolf.

:huh:  There are a number of ways to spell that sound.  Wolf, wulf, wolfe, wulfe, woolf, etc.  Only one way to spell "the," though, AFAIK.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on October 12, 2020, 08:44:22 AM
The question is why a Barnes and Noble clerk had to do a search for one of the best selling authors of the decade.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 12, 2020, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: Maladict on October 12, 2020, 08:44:22 AM
The question is why a Barnes and Noble clerk had to do a search for one of the best selling authors of the decade.

:lol:  You really think today's store clerks can name the top-selling authors of the decade?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 12, 2020, 12:41:08 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 12, 2020, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: Maladict on October 12, 2020, 08:44:22 AM
The question is why a Barnes and Noble clerk had to do a search for one of the best selling authors of the decade.

:lol:  You really think today's store clerks can name the top-selling authors of the decade?
This is one of the reasons why I think Waterstones survived (and is doing pretty well in the UK - started turning a profit again over the last 4-5 years) and Borders collapsed. Waterstones hire people who are into reading - so there's stuff like no central "corporate" list of recommendations, it's shaped by the staff in the store. Borders just employed bored teenagers :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on October 12, 2020, 02:41:25 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 12, 2020, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: Maladict on October 12, 2020, 08:44:22 AM
The question is why a Barnes and Noble clerk had to do a search for one of the best selling authors of the decade.

:lol:  You really think today's store clerks can name the top-selling authors of the decade?

I had a moment of weakness, and hopeful thoughts.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on October 12, 2020, 03:41:15 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 12, 2020, 12:41:08 PM
This is one of the reasons why I think Waterstones survived (and is doing pretty well in the UK - started turning a profit again over the last 4-5 years) and Borders collapsed. Waterstones hire people who are into reading - so there's stuff like no central "corporate" list of recommendations, it's shaped by the staff in the store. Borders just employed bored teenagers :lol:

Daunt, the man assumed to be responsible for Waterstones' turnaround, has been put in charge of B&N. We'll see if that has an impact.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 12, 2020, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 12, 2020, 12:41:08 PM
This is one of the reasons why I think Waterstones survived (and is doing pretty well in the UK - started turning a profit again over the last 4-5 years) and Borders collapsed. Waterstones hire people who are into reading - so there's stuff like no central "corporate" list of recommendations, it's shaped by the staff in the store. Borders just employed bored teenagers :lol:

The ironic thing is that working at the original Borders in Ann Arbor was quite a prestigious gig, precisely because you had to know your books to get a job.  They paid above-market rates because they wanted customers to come in not just to find books, but to get personalized book recommendations.

When the original Borders brothers got bought out, all that went out the window.  As you say, they just started hiring clerks to stock the shelves and ring up the purchases.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on October 12, 2020, 08:51:06 PM
Re-reading LOTR for the first time in a long while, what struck me was 'The Shadow of the Past' is as near perfect a scene-setting chapter for a 'fantasy' novel as one could wish to find. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 13, 2020, 12:54:45 AM
I don't know if you could get away with such a big and obvious exposition dump nowadays. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josquius on October 13, 2020, 09:01:29 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 12, 2020, 12:41:08 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 12, 2020, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: Maladict on October 12, 2020, 08:44:22 AM
The question is why a Barnes and Noble clerk had to do a search for one of the best selling authors of the decade.

:lol:  You really think today's store clerks can name the top-selling authors of the decade?
This is one of the reasons why I think Waterstones survived (and is doing pretty well in the UK - started turning a profit again over the last 4-5 years) and Borders collapsed. Waterstones hire people who are into reading - so there's stuff like no central "corporate" list of recommendations, it's shaped by the staff in the store. Borders just employed bored teenagers :lol:
Yeah, have to say I haven't bought anything from Waterstones in years- and I think they did used to be just another shop in the past.
But they sure have a nice vibe about them these days.
Helps that the Newcastle shop is a super scenic building too
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 13, 2020, 09:18:27 AM
Yeah similar in the ones I visit. Obviously if possible I try to use an independent bookstore (:goodboy:) but there aren't enough of them around everywhere and Waterstones have definitely moved from just being a sort of book version of WH Smiths into as you say shops in nice buildings with good vibes and, generally, it feels like people who care.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on October 13, 2020, 09:36:33 AM
The Waterstones in Newcastle is pretty good, but my favourite is the one near the British Museum.
And Hatchards, which is owned by Waterstones.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 13, 2020, 03:56:49 PM
Read Holland's book as far as the surrender of France. I'll leave the rest for now, my focus right now is up to that point of the war. The book was OK, since Holland isn't a historian I didn't let minor problems (and they are minor) stop me. Most problems were things that weren't really wrong but could be misleading for someone who doesn't know much. There is little analysis, much of the book is individual human scenes taken from autobiographies etc.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 13, 2020, 04:06:10 PM
Next up is The Blitzkrieg Legend: The 1940 Campaign in the West, by Frieser. The authour was (is?) with the Military History Research Office of the Bundeswehr, so I hope it will be a bit meatier.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 13, 2020, 06:21:58 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 13, 2020, 04:06:10 PM
Next up is The Blitzkrieg Legend: The 1940 Campaign in the West, by Frieser. The authour was (is?) with the Military History Research Office of the Bundeswehr, so I hope it will be a bit meatier.

That one does look good.   :huh: at the Kindle price, though.  Let us know what you think.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on October 13, 2020, 07:45:45 PM
Finished They Thought they were Free..  The book is a series of interviews of 10 Nazis in post-war Germany.  What they thought of Nazism, why they joined the party, what they believed in etc.  First part is good, it's interesting to know what the rank-and-file Nazis thought.  2nd part is about the German "character".  That's much less good.  I'm wary of Sonderweg explanations and blanket statements about whole groups of people.  The third part is really odd: It's about why the American occupation failed and what can be done to save the soul of Germany (The book was published in 1955).  So basically that whole part is garbage.  Germany did change, but it took more than a few years.  Syt said it took about the two generations and I take his word for it.

Sadly, Germany seems more invested in the idea of a pluralistic democracy than America does these days and they certainly are more dedicated to the cause of peace. :(

In short: Raz does not recommend.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: viper37 on October 13, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
Lucky's Marine.

I like this one.  It's still fast food sci-fi, but I like it, I find it very funny :)

Lucky Lee Savage is a lance-corporal marine in the distant future.  There are various regional human power, among which, the Cardinal Order, the Empire (Lucky's faction) and the Union.  No one is the good guy here, for a change.  Only some are less worst than others :D

Lucky is a lance-corporal whose greatest fear is to be promoted ;)

Each marine has an integrated AI at their disposal, which controls various functions to their bodies, like combat stimulants and nanobots to repair physical damage or protect them from exposition to radiations or the vacuum of space.  Most damages, like a missing limb, can be repaired in some time.  Makes for grittier stories, with vivid, gorier descriptions.

Also, Lucky's AI seems unique in that it's the only AI able to speak and engage in coherent conversations.  And it's a smart-ass AI, often sarcastic, and constantly joking with Lucky.  At some point of the story, the AI is forked and integrated into another character and it makes for even funnier reading :D

They say you'll love this if you liked series like Firefly or Alien, and I tend to agree.  There's this constant sarcasm typical of Joss Whedon's humor, and a lot of actions typical of the Alien movies.

I highly recommend this one if you fall in the above categories, it makes for fun reading.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 13, 2020, 09:21:15 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 13, 2020, 07:45:45 PM
Finished They Thought they were Free..  The book is a series of interviews of 10 Nazis in post-war Germany.  What they thought of Nazism, why they joined the party, what they believed in etc.  First part is good, it's interesting to know what the rank-and-file Nazis thought.  2nd part is about the German "character".  That's much less good.  I'm wary of Sonderweg explanations and blanket statements about whole groups of people.  The third part is really odd: It's about why the American occupation failed and what can be done to save the soul of Germany (The book was published in 1955).  So basically that whole part is garbage.  Germany did change, but it took more than a few years.  Syt said it took about the two generations and I take his word for it.

Sadly, Germany seems more invested in the idea of a pluralistic democracy than America does these days and they certainly are more dedicated to the cause of peace. :(

In short: Raz does not recommend.
On Sonderweg, I've recommended it before but I really recommend The Light That Failed.

One of the points the authors make is that in the post-Cold War Germany was the model, but there is a post-war/democratisation sonderweg in Germany which didn't really work in the context of CEE.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 13, 2020, 10:22:05 PM
Inspired by The Brain, I picked up the Kindle version of Operation Red, an analysis of the fighting between Dunkirk and the French surrender.  I've never read an account of that period that went into any detail.  I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on October 14, 2020, 01:55:02 AM
This came in the mail today, lockdown reading sorted :cool:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51TDtUyeREL._SX324_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/64/Memoirs_of_Hadrian.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/518I8p45i5L._SX322_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 14, 2020, 02:14:20 AM
I didn't know Julian wrote a book about Gore Vidal :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 14, 2020, 02:19:57 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 13, 2020, 10:22:05 PM
Inspired by The Brain, I picked up the Kindle version of Operation Red, an analysis of the fighting between Dunkirk and the French surrender.  I've never read an account of that period that went into any detail.  I'll keep you posted.

Please do so. I noticed it while shopping but didn't pull the trigger because I thought I had enough books in the shopping cart.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 14, 2020, 02:20:38 AM
I loved Memoirs of Hadrian. Read it basically in one sitting. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on October 14, 2020, 12:27:31 PM
I'm looking for a book on Roger de Flor and the Catalan company, ideally something published fairly recently.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 14, 2020, 12:28:59 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 14, 2020, 12:27:31 PM
I'm looking for a book on Roger de Flor and the Catalan company, ideally something published fairly recently.

This should have some pointers: https://www.academia.edu/19583509/The_Catalan_Company_in_the_East_the_Evolution_of_an_Itinerant_Army_1303_1311_
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 15, 2020, 06:19:26 AM
Interesting sounding biography of Derrida:
QuoteThink Jacques Derrida was a charlatan? Look again
A scintillating new biography should make many doubters reappraise the enigmatic French philosopher
by Julian Baggini   / October 4, 2020 / Leave a comment

In May 1992, academics at the University of Cambridge reacted with outrage to a proposed honorary degree from their venerable institution to Jacques Derrida. A letter to the Times from 14 international philosophers followed, protesting that "M Derrida's work does not meet accepted standards of clarity and rigour."

Depending on your viewpoint, the incident marked the zenith or nadir of Anglo-American analytic philosophy's resistance to what it saw as the obfuscation and sophistry of its continental European cousin. To them Derrida was a peddler of "tricks and gimmicks," a cheap entertainer whose stock in trade was "elaborate jokes and puns."

The irony is that the protests showed a shocking lack of rigour themselves. As Peter Salmon points out in his brilliant biography An Event, Perhaps, Derrida had never used the puerile pun "logical phallusies" that the letter writers attributed to him. This was remarkably sloppy since "it is not as though neologisms ripe for their sort of mockery are hard to find." Salmon concludes that "none of them had taken the time to read any of Derrida's work."


It would have been understandable if some had tried but quickly given up. One of Derrida's examiners at his prestigious high school, the Lycée Louis-le-Grand, wrote of his work: "The answers are brilliant in the very same way that they are obscure." His work as an undergraduate was no easier to decipher. Louis Althusser said that he could not grade his dissertation because "it's too difficult, too obscure." Michel Foucault could do little better, remarking: "Well, it's either an F or an A+."

The Derrida portrayed by Salmon would have shared these doubts. His "nagging fear that those who saw him as a charlatan were right never left him." Given Derrida's whole project was one of radical doubt, he could hardly have felt otherwise. Derrida was both admiring and mocking when he described analytic philosophers' "imperturbable ingenuity," but their absolute confidence in the rightness of their approach was anathema to him. He was in this respect more truly a philosopher than those who question everything except the peculiarities of their own methods of questioning.

An Event, Perhaps is called a biography but, as Derrida incessantly argued, all categorisations are to some degree arbitrary. Derrida's life story provides a frame and background for an intellectual biography of his ideas and their development. In the process it also serves as one of the clearest introductions to 20th-century continental philosophy available. The movements and minds that Derrida was responding to are finely sketched with clarity and concision. Difficult thinkers such as Husserl, Levinas, Heidegger, Cixous, Saussure, Lévi-Strauss and Gabriel Marcel become surprisingly approachable; the frequently-blurred distinctions between movements such as structuralism, phenomenology, post-structuralism and existentialism suddenly clarify.

[bJackie Derrida, as he was named, was born in Algiers in 1930, then a French colony, to largely secular Sephardic Jewish parents. His childhood testifies to his later claims about the inadequacies of language to capture the ambiguities and contradictions of the world, especially those of identity. He was Algerian but not a citizen of Algeria, French without ever having even seen France, Jewish without living a Jewish life, of an Arab country but not Arab, too dark to be seen as European by Europeans, too culturally European to be seen by Africans as African. Little wonder he would later write that identity "is never given, received or attained: only the interminable and indefinitely phantasmic process of identification remains."[/b]

Life in Algeria was unsettling and unpredictable. In 1940, the collaborationist Vichy government in France took away citizenship from the 120,000 Jews in Algeria, which was only restored three years later after Allied forces retook the country. But from the time Derrida enrolled as a boarder at the Lycée Louis-le-Grand in Paris and then the even more exclusive École normale supérieure, he lived a comfortable life among the elite. However, he never lost his outsider's edge. Never one to join groups or mass movements, he would in time dislike the cultish adoration of his acolytes.

Despite the way the Anglo-Saxon academy often bundles him in with them, Derrida was never one of the postmodernists. He did, however, share the movement's distrust of grand narratives that provide single, and often simple, explanations that erase the complexities of the real world. Everything has to be carefully "deconstructed": analysed in its specificity, "alert to the implications, to the historical sedimentation of the language which we use." That is perhaps why he wrote so much. Deconstruction was a method more than a theory and there was no limit to what could be deconstructed.

Still, there was a unity to Derrida's oeuvre, captured in his talk of "adopting equivocality"—what Salmon calls "perhaps as close as we have to a Derridean call to arms." In much classical and contemporary analytic philosophy there is an assumption, more or less explicit, that there is a way that things are and that the task of language is to map it, to "carve nature at the joints" as Plato put it. For Derrida, it is not that nature has no joints, or that the world can simply be carved however we please. Rather, there is always more than one way to carve, and every slice divorces us from possible alternative ways of seeing and understanding. Naming is thus, says Salmon, a "founding act of violence... before there is a road taken and a road not taken."

This idea is at the heart of Derrida's key concept of différance. Every concept, every distinction, carries with it the ghost of an alternative conception or distinction not made. One task of deconstruction is to recover these lost possibilities, to show that the way we think of things is not the only way they can be thought. We may not use the word, but we all have a sense of what différance means. "Anyone who has formed quotation marks in the air with their fingers to identify a word where the use and meaning are not absolutely cleaved," says Salmon, "has acknowledged the possibility of différance as posited by Derrida." The ubiquity of this gesture suggests Derrida was right when he commented "once quotation marks demand to appear, they don't know where to stop."

Derrida's project is diametrically opposed to that of most philosophers. One of the broadest and most accurate descriptions of philosophy as generally practised in the west is that it seeks the resolution of aporias: seemingly intractable contradictions that inevitably emerge from our understanding of the world. For instance, it is an aporia that we seem to have knowledge, but also have reason to believe we can be certain of nothing. Another is that we appear to have free will, but also understand ourselves to be subject to mechanical laws of nature. In such aporias, simply giving up one side of the contradiction is not possible without a major reconfiguration of our understanding.

For Derrida, however, Salmon argues "the goal was to keep an aporia in suspension." Using Gabriel Marcel's distinction, philosophy has seen itself as concerned with solving problems that exist independently of us, when it should be trying to understand the insoluble mysteries that we have to live with.

You can see why Derrida's writing could never have been clear and plain. If you take as a premise "meaning cannot be fixed" then in your writing you will take pains to avoid any suggestion of false precision. As Salmon puts it, "Language that presumes itself fixed and proclaimed from the mountain is the sovereign right of God, not of humans."

Hence Derrida's difficult style, far from being an affectation, is an inevitable requirement of his philosophy. He adopts "obfuscation as a structural necessity, to draw attention to the undecidability of certain notions, or to foreground their complexity." Manner and matter cannot be separated. The style of analytic philosophy, "privileging clarity as though it was a transparent deliverer of meaning," is not philosophically neutral but professes the foundational assumptions of the school itself.

One of Derrida's claims that analytic philosophers would have no difficulty agreeing with is: "One shouldn't complicate things for the pleasure of complicating, but one should also never simplify or pretend to be sure of such simplicity where there is none. If things were simple, word would have gotten round." The difference is that they take a different view of what is difficult. The complication of analytic philosophy arises from the attempt to be as precise as possible, whereas the complication for Derrida is the result of meticulously trying to avoid being more precise than is possible.


That is not to say Derrida is never guilty of linguistic extravagance. He admitted that he was "an incorrigible hyperbolite," and that "I always exaggerate." Early in his career he accused Heidegger of using "Noisy, pretentious and heavy dialect... [a] crowd of neologisms of which a good part are superfluous," which leads Salmon to sardonically note that "Derrida's prejudices against this sort of writing were, one might point out, not ongoing."

Yet Derrida also sagely said "ordinary language is probably right," because ordinary language never pretends to have the precision or purity of philosophical speech. Philosophy's attempted resolutions of aporias are attempts to tidy up language. Derrida, in contrast, wants to remind us that language is even less precise, even more equivocal than common sense presumes. Philosophers' attempts to pin down words are as futile as nailing jelly to a wall. Language is slippery since each new iteration newly recombined by each speaker brings with it the possibility of a mutation of meaning, even from the meaning the speaker intended for it.

A revealing dispute with a leading analytic philosopher, John Searle, makes the cleft between the two approaches clear. Searle's early work was on his mentor JL Austin's concept of the "speech act." Austin's insight was that words do not only convey meanings, they can be used to actually do things. If a priest pronounces a couple man and wife, they become married; a judge sends someone to prison merely by issuing a sentence.

If this recognition of the heterogeneity of speech was helpful to Derrida, the ways in which analytic philosophers developed the idea were not. For instance, when talking of promising as a speech act, Searle wrote: "I am ignoring marginal, fringe, and partially defective promises." For Derrida this was inexcusable. By only focusing on abstracted, tidied-up, ideal forms of speech acts, Searle was ignoring how they actually work. Searle thought this simplification was harmless, just "a matter of research strategy." Derrida thought it was another example of philosophy choosing a false precision over more truthful messiness.

The written dispute with Searle was bitter. The American was snide and condescending, but Derrida came to view his own reply "with a certain uneasiness," seeing it "not devoid of aggressivity." He at least recognised that philosophical debate involves passions and personalities, not just language and logic.


For all his 20th-century jargon, Derrida at heart belongs to a long line of sceptics that traces back to Pyrrho in Ancient Greece. "Crucial to his thinking," says Salmon, was an opposition to the "violence of any gesture that pretends (assumes, supposes, presupposes) to know." He was not a nihilist who denied truth, but a sceptic who thought "we cannot know whether there is truth or not." Still, we can understand better by digging beneath the surface of concepts and language, finding what has not been said. Deconstruction is not destruction, as he was at pains to point out.

In ethics and politics Derrida's suspension of judgment made him cautious of political action. Unlike many peers, such as the then Maoist Alain Badiou, he did not join the Paris revolts of 1968. "What we desired, in poetics terms, was the metaphysics of radical conflict, and not the patient deconstruction of opposites," the soixante-huitard Badiou said, "and Derrida could not agree about that."

In retrospect, this might seem admirable. However, his defence of the antisemitism and duplicity of his old friend Paul de Man back in the Nazi era, which emerged only after de Man's death, cast him as just the kind of slippery relativist his critics accused him of being.

But Derrida was intensely serious about his work, writing more than 40 books and accumulating a library of over 13,000. Maybe he was profoundly mistaken. Even Salmon, clearly an admirer, says his 1966 classic Of Grammatology is "gloriously bonkers." But anyone who believes he was a charlatan—especially without having made a serious attempt to read him—will surely have their minds changed by Salmon's scintillating account of his life and thought.

An Event, Perhaps: A Biography of Jacques Derrida, by Peter Salmon (Verso, £16.99)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 15, 2020, 06:23:12 AM
Quote14 international philosophers

Of mystery?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 21, 2020, 04:32:53 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 13, 2020, 06:21:58 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 13, 2020, 04:06:10 PM
Next up is The Blitzkrieg Legend: The 1940 Campaign in the West, by Frieser. The authour was (is?) with the Military History Research Office of the Bundeswehr, so I hope it will be a bit meatier.

That one does look good.   :huh: at the Kindle price, though.  Let us know what you think.

Finished it. I was expecting it to be drier than it was, it's a pretty nice read that chugs along like a Guderian panzer. The book deals with the campaign of May 1940 (Fall Gelb), its background and what caused its result, it explicitly does not deal with the second phase of the fighting (Fall Rot), the logic being that the defeat of France was unavoidable by then. It does not deal with Allied strategy in general in 1939-40 (why no strike in September 1939, why so passive in general). Within Fall Gelb the main focus is on those events that the author thinks were the decisive ones, which naturally mostly involve Army Group A. Many nice color maps, they are in the original German (cost reasons), which I don't think is much of a problem for anyone in the target audience.

To this non-expert the author appears to have done his time in the archives and know what he's talking about (at least when it comes to Fall Gelb). If I were to nitpick he doesn't necessarily seem as knowledgeable when he (rarely) drifts into other areas, but I could definitely be wrong here. The 2nd Ed of the original German work was published in 1996, and that's the one available in English translation, so obviously it doesn't incorporate the very latest research (which I don't know if it has produced any significant new knowledge). Among many other things I liked the description of the halt order before Dunkirk, I don't remember if I've read a detailed description of it before.

The essential conclusion, simplified af, is still that the French command didn't GIT GUD the way they should have. Just like my own conclusion in 1994.

I would say that the book is a must read for anyone interested in Fall Gelb.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 21, 2020, 04:36:04 PM
Addendum: it seems to me that the translation is very good. According to the editor's introduction it took many years, and Frieser was heavily involved. It seems pretty solid to me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on October 21, 2020, 06:05:15 PM
Since we discussed it earlier, the finalists for the Cundill Prize have been announced:

Vincent Brown, for Tacky's Revolt
William Dalrymple, for The Anarchy and
Camilla Townshend, for Fifth Sun. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on October 22, 2020, 12:57:10 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 21, 2020, 06:05:15 PM
Since we discussed it earlier, the finalists for the Cundill Prize have been announced:

Vincent Brown, for Tacky's Revolt
William Dalrymple, for The Anarchy and
Camilla Townshend, for Fifth Sun.

The Anarchy has almost reached the top of the to-read pile, looking forward to it.
I'm not much given to fanboidom, but getting a mention and follow from Dalrymple on social media made me giddy as hell  :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 22, 2020, 01:10:25 PM
:lol:

I had the same with Sir Lawrence Freedman (:blush:). I've never actually read any of Dalrymple's books but should and have heard excellent things about The Anarchy.

I had 5-6 weeks in Mexico last week with a lot of time in the museums so I am very interested in reading Fifth Sun.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 22, 2020, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 22, 2020, 01:10:25 PM
I had 5-6 weeks in Mexico last week

that's an impressive trick.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 22, 2020, 01:34:33 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 21, 2020, 04:36:04 PM
Addendum: it seems to me that the translation is very good. According to the editor's introduction it took many years, and Frieser was heavily involved. It seems pretty solid to me.

I read it in English and found it pretty breezy for what it is.  At the time I was able to find used copies in very good condition.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 22, 2020, 01:37:32 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 22, 2020, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 22, 2020, 01:10:25 PM
I had 5-6 weeks in Mexico last week

that's an impressive trick.
:lol: Soz - last year. In the beforetimes when I could leave the house :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on October 22, 2020, 02:11:03 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 22, 2020, 01:10:25 PM
I had 5-6 weeks in Mexico last week with a lot of time in the museums so I am very interested in reading Fifth Sun.

I read it after the long list was announced. I was slightly disappointed. Part of the appeal certainly was access to Nahuatl poetry and songs, but it was juxtaposed to attempts at evocative writing from Townshend (which I think fell a bit short), and to more traditional (i.e, duller) historian' writings. I think it is inevitable that I would compare with Inga Clendinnen's Aztecs (which I recommend). Clendinnent was taken to task for not reading Nahuatl (as she should), but I found her writing to be much more successful at conjuring up a foreign people. By contrast, one of Townshend's avowed point is to make the Nahua more "recognizable" as rational-political-technical actors. This is probably why her attempts to do so by evoking literary style is not entirely successful.

Dalrymple is next on the Cundhill pile - but I have to go through a bunch of French-language history books first (and a few novels, now that access to Quebec lit. is easy again).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 23, 2020, 08:11:00 PM
Finished Case Red, and give it a qualified thumbs-up.  It covered an area of history generally ignored, and was generally quite readable.  It was a nice mix of explanation and analysis.  It was clearly and appropriately divided into four sections:  the first 20% or so dealt with the lead-up to the war, devoting about equal time between the Axis and the Allies.  The second 20% dealt with the Initial Case Yellow, the invasion of France.  The next not-quite-20% dealt with the plans of both sides for Case red, and the last 40% with the actual battles and political maneuverings post-Dunkirk:  Case Red itself.  I thought the book benefitted from this division, because, while it didn't actually describe Case Yellow in detail (other works do that well) it was important to understand what each side learned from Case Yellow.

The book suffered badly from poor editing, though.  I found few errors in the actual language used, but the maps absolutely sucked and the fact that they only appeared at the ends of the chapters describing the action meant that the reader was constantly faced with the problem of not knowing what the hell the author was talking about.  Maps were black-on-white cartoons of the action, with almost no terrain depicted and no way to readily distinguish between, say, roads and rivers.  Units were standard NATO symbols with German units only slightly lighter than Allied ones.  I'd rate the maps a D.

Just as bad, the author switched willy-nilly between using good ol' English and French or German designations for units.  Sometimes, we read about German motorcycle battalions and sometimes kradschutzen battalions, as though we are supposed to remember the German name for "motorcycle battalions."  With the French, it was worse... far worse.  The French had distinct names for all of their units, and so we get an alphabet soup of GRDI (Groupe de Reconnaisance de Division d'Infantry) and RICMS and CACC and... well, the list takes three pages in the appendix.  The reader loses track of whether the author is talking about a unit of 200 guys or 200,000 guys.  I guess we are supposed to be impressed that the author can keep track of the specific designations, but the reader starts to not care.

The analysis seem good, though.  The author's main theme is that morale was not the French problem in 1940, though the main problem at Sedan was caused by the low fighting efficiency and confidence of the ill-equipped-and-trained Reserve B divisions the French hid there to keep them from being exposed to attack.  The French fought fiercely where they could but didn't have the equipment to succeed.

He thinks the blame is about 50% due to the poor decision-making by the British and French before the war.  He calls out the poor choices in equipment design by the French (not selecting appropriate equipment in time to get it in the hands of the troops so they could train prewar, choosing not to replace their WW1 machine guns) and their decision to spend billions of francs on the navy and army, while ignoring pilot training requirements.  He is brutal on the British side, essentially accusing the interwar government of deliberately starving the Territorial Army of equipment so that future British governments could not do anything so foolish as to send a BEF to France again.  The abandonment of the French allies in eastern Europe he thinks was a failure of the French to really consider that they needed to defend France, not just deter Germany.  The French failed to even consider what they needed to do to sustain their allies.  They were engaged in pure wishful thinking.

The other half of the Allied failure he blames on poor decision-making at the point of contact.  The British had an armored division, but took away its infantry and artillery at the start of the war, sending it first to Norway and then to Calais, where it was wiped out.  The rump of the division was pathetic in combat, being annihilated in embarrassing fashion by lack of infantry and artillery.  The French figured out how to beat panzer divisions by the time of Dunkirk, and did so afterwards, but their solution made the job of German infantry divisions much easier, and Case Red was decided by the German infantry.  British troops post-Dunkirk were helpless children caught up in a war they didn't understand, because they were now all Territorial Army troops with no modern weapons or training.

The author's Top Four Reasons for the French Defeat were:
1. The French and British did not understand the value of firepower in the air and on the ground.  They were always out-shot.
2. The French were over-reliant on deterrence and did not start producing weapons in quality early enough
3.  The French, prewar, engaged in "imperial prestige" projects like rebuilding their battle fleet (they spent more on battleships, naval bases, and carriers than on the Maginot Line), and
4. The British failed to support the French battle as thoroughly as the situation demanded.  In particular, he is critical of the British decision to hold back the RAF fighters until the Germans could face them unopposed elsewhere, rather than committing them when they could have made the Battle of Britain unnecessary.  The futility of the BEF was pre-ordained, so he is less critical there (except for Brooke)

Some interesting new things I learned, assuming the author is correct:
1.  God, did the Generals suck for the Allies.  It's hard to argue with the author's conclusion that Renaud's greatest mistake was not shooting Weygand as soo as it was clear that Weygand wanted France to lose.  British General Alan Brooke panicked and routed off the continent as soon as he got there (he fled four days after arriving, but two weeks before the French surrender) and ordered his troops to destroy a huge amount of equipment that could easily have been saved.  Gamelan was lost, and didn't even understand what caused the French defeat.
2.  The Germans murdered a lot of French colonial troops because... well, because.  Not SS.  Heer.  The Waffen-SS murdered a lot of colonials and their officers (and ordinary poilus and their officers) because murder was the SS pastime, but the Heer troops killed colonial soldiers because, apparently, they were enraged that black solders dared fire on Aryan ones.
3.  The French has a lot more planes than pilots.  They resisted employing colonial and Czech/Polish pilots (though they took them towards the end - the RAF was glad to get them) and didn't understand their own needs for pilot training.  As an aside, the superiority of the US equipment they had rather surprised me; the Hawk 75 (P-36) did little in American hands but was great in French hands.  The DB-7 (A-20) was unstoppable in French hands.  There just wasn't much American equipment delivered in time.
4.  Wow, did the British suck in this battle.  It is kind of astonishing that Alan Brooke was ever employed again, let alone made into a hero.  British tanks did nothing but litter the battlefields with broken-down or just broken wrecks.  The RAF was pathetic.  When they weren't getting slaughtered by the Germans it is because they were dropping leaflets at night.  The Hurricanes got blasted as did, more famously, the bombers. 
5. The French army, more than any other service in any of the major powers, were reliant on civilian telephone services for vital military communications.  This failed them several times in critical situations.  They didn't think radios were very important, and didn't have many (and what they had were bulky and recalcitrant).
6. De Gaulle was the real deal.  He was successful on the battlefield and, brought into the cabinet by Renaud, was the most clear-eyed man in the room.  Nobody would listen to him, though.  As someone who previously kinda despised De Gaulle, this was an eye-opener.

The one real failing of the book seems to be the bibliography.  It's mostly popular history.  Little academic research or primary source material.

As I said, a qualified "worth reading."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on October 27, 2020, 10:09:34 AM
The stray cat that moved in recently is already better read than me:

(https://i.ibb.co/yQLd8jY/Cat-Reading.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on November 20, 2020, 04:04:10 PM
RIP Jan Morris  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 25, 2020, 07:43:12 AM
I just received Wars and Soldiers in the Early Reign Of Louis XIV: Volume 3 - The Armies of the Ottoman Empire 1645-1718, part of Helion's Century of the Soldier series. Sweet. I've been looking for detailed info in English on the Ottoman army of this era for a long time. Hopefully it will be readable, but it looks pretty great. 370 pages, nice illustrations etc.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 27, 2020, 05:25:01 AM
Read the first half, absolutely fantastic

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/09/10/books/review/Harari2/Harari2-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on November 27, 2020, 08:39:54 AM
You can hear her interviewed here


https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9yc3MuYXJ0MTkuY29tL3RpZGVzLW9mLWhpc3Rvcnk/episode/Z2lkOi8vYXJ0MTktZXBpc29kZS1sb2NhdG9yL1YwL3BZcFlZa29ZUzZrYWRwQVVJdk9xUnV4N1VaUzBaTXZ5VFQ2NFpMcDRWcU0?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwiQ8NC27KLtAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAw&hl=en-CA
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 28, 2020, 12:37:24 AM
Yes, I've watched several podcasts/videos of her in the last couple of days. She really knows her stuff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Tamas on November 30, 2020, 05:56:03 AM
Was struggling to find a new sci-fi book to read that wasn't just some exhausting pulp about describing shooting wars. Figured I should finally read Foundation.

Well, I like the basic premise. But boy, this book. Did. Not. Age. Well. This male-only world of cigarette smokers dominated by "atomics" tech could not be more early-50s if it tried.  :D Still, short enough so I'll soldier on.

Is it worth going through the trilogy, though?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 30, 2020, 06:29:04 AM
First trilogy yes, IMHO.

Check out Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky. But maybe not if you're an arachnophobe. I wrote about it earlier in this thread, but it contains spoilers.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Tamas on November 30, 2020, 07:04:35 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 30, 2020, 06:29:04 AM
First trilogy yes, IMHO.

Check out Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky. But maybe not if you're an arachnophobe. I wrote about it earlier in this thread, but it contains spoilers.

Thanks I checked out a Kindle sample of it earlier. Might return to it actually, but yeah reading about giant intelligent spiders is not my idea of fun unfortunately. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 30, 2020, 07:14:20 AM
Quote from: The Brain on November 25, 2020, 07:43:12 AM
I just received Wars and Soldiers in the Early Reign Of Louis XIV: Volume 3 - The Armies of the Ottoman Empire 1645-1718, part of Helion's Century of the Soldier series. Sweet. I've been looking for detailed info in English on the Ottoman army of this era for a long time. Hopefully it will be readable, but it looks pretty great. 370 pages, nice illustrations etc.

Finished it. Impressions were correct, it contains a lot of interesting info. I'm not an expert on the subject but it seemed OK to me. The English was quirky, but it was much better than the other originally Italian Helion book I complained about (which I had to quit), and it didn't annoy me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on December 01, 2020, 01:27:40 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 30, 2020, 06:29:04 AM
First trilogy yes, IMHO.

Check out Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky. But maybe not if you're an arachnophobe. I wrote about it earlier in this thread, but it contains spoilers.

Fantastic read
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on December 07, 2020, 02:00:24 AM
Can anyone recommend a good readable biography of Simon Bolivar?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2020, 02:14:19 AM
I read the Marie Arana book and I thought it was so so.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 07, 2020, 04:07:45 AM
Are there any recommended books about
- the Soviet War in Afghanistan
- the NATO War in Afghanistan
- (the period between those wars?)
- The 2003 Iraq War and aftermath
?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on December 07, 2020, 04:10:12 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2020, 02:14:19 AM
I read the Marie Arana book and I thought it was so so.

I finished that a month ago and agree - 5/10. Not bad on his personal life but doesn't really set the scene properly and too disjointed.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 07, 2020, 04:16:15 AM
Quote from: Malthus on December 07, 2020, 02:00:24 AM
Can anyone recommend a good readable biography of Simon Bolivar?
This is not what you're asking for but (:lol: sorry), I'd recommend Marquez's The General in his Labyrinth. It's a really excellent entry in the canon of Latin American dictator novels.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2020, 01:50:12 PM
Quote from: Gups on December 07, 2020, 04:10:12 AM
I finished that a month ago and agree - 5/10. Not bad on his personal life but doesn't really set the scene properly and too disjointed.

I felt at times I was reading a magic realism novel.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 24, 2020, 05:49:37 PM
Finished Akbar: The Great Mughal, by Ira Mukothy. A very nice and readable biography of the most fascinating of the Mughals. I think it's good if you at least have some idea about Indian or Mughal history before reading it, but it's not necessary. I had read a few general histories of India and of the Mughals, but no Akbar bio. There are no color photos and no maps, this didn't bother me at all but some people may be annoyed. There's a lot of names, but the most important persons can be found in a helpful Cast of Characters. There's a lot of Indian terms that weren't immediately known to me (AFAIK the book is written with an Indian audience in mind), again this didn't bother me. I only started reading about Indian history a few years ago (it was on my list for decades), there's a lot of interesting stuff there.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on December 31, 2020, 08:28:01 PM
'The Lord of the Rings'

Well crafted high fantasy.

First re-read in probably 20 years, a bit disappointed that I remembered nearly all of it, the only scene I didn't recall was a chat between Frodo and Gloin at the meal in Rivendell.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on January 01, 2021, 12:15:38 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 31, 2020, 08:28:01 PM
'The Lord of the Rings'

Well crafted high fantasy.

First re-read in probably 20 years, a bit disappointed that I remembered nearly all of it, the only scene I didn't recall was a chat between Frodo and Gloin at the meal in Rivendell.

About 30 years for me now, plus I read a translation at the time. Maybe I should give it a go  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 01, 2021, 04:33:07 PM
Latest re-read was ~2 years ago for me. I didn't recall Aragorn being such a sulky whiner at the start.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 01, 2021, 04:49:47 PM
What's with the stutter?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josquius on January 01, 2021, 05:04:09 PM
I recently finished the hyperion series. Anyone else read this one?
Lots of interesting aspects to it. Though it goes in hard for the Christianity mega fan stuff.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 01, 2021, 07:06:51 PM
I read the hyperion cantos about a decade ago.  There was some sequels but I didn't read them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on January 01, 2021, 08:26:10 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 01, 2021, 05:04:09 PM
I recently finished the hyperion series. Anyone else read this one?
Lots of interesting aspects to it. Though it goes in hard for the Christianity mega fan stuff.

I read the first one, which was sort of a Canterbury Tales thing. I started Book Two, but stopped about half way. Couldn't get into it.

Dan Simmons is actually a really fascinating writer, but his Sci-Fi is to me his least interesting genre. He dabbled in horror for a while after sci-fi, and then in sort of historical fiction. (AMC's The Terror was based on one of his books, which was about how the crew of the Terror and Erebus were stalked by a ghostly polar bear-- no really).

The Abominable was very good. A well told and researched, realistic telling of the first Everest climb with Mallory and Irvine....well realistic except for the ghostly snowman thing. And you thought Mallory just fell off...ha!



And Drood, is a creepy gothic tale of the last years of Charles Dickens' life. Pretty realistic too, except for the....well, wouldn't want to spoil it for you.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 01, 2021, 09:32:56 PM
The reason I read the Hyperion Cantos was because I liked the Terror so much.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 02, 2021, 11:15:38 AM
Am reading SPQR and I finally know what caligae means.  Also learned that Caligula was a nickname, not his real name.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 02, 2021, 04:30:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 02, 2021, 11:15:38 AM
Am reading SPQR and I finally know what caligae means.  Also learned that Caligula was a nickname, not his real name.

Indeed.  Aristocratic Romans typically went by nicknames, because they reused the same few names over and over again in their families.  Gaius Julius (son of Gaius Julius, grandson of Gaius Julius) went by the nickname Caesar (also the nickname of his father and grandfather), as did Pompey, Crassus, Cicero, Augustus, etc. Become known by theirs.   Gaius Caesar Augustus Germanicus had three nicknames, and picked up the fourth, Caligula, early in his life.

Interesting fact:  daughters of aristocratic Romans didn;t have personal names; they all went by the family name (thus Caesar had two aunts, both named Julia, a sister Julia, and a daughter Julia). 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 02, 2021, 04:44:17 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 02, 2021, 04:30:12 PM
(thus Caesar had two aunts, both named Julia, a sister Julia, and a daughter Julia).

Does pretending they were different people make you sleep better?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on January 02, 2021, 05:06:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 02, 2021, 04:30:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 02, 2021, 11:15:38 AM
Am reading SPQR and I finally know what caligae means.  Also learned that Caligula was a nickname, not his real name.

Indeed.  Aristocratic Romans typically went by nicknames, because they reused the same few names over and over again in their families.  Gaius Julius (son of Gaius Julius, grandson of Gaius Julius) went by the nickname Caesar (also the nickname of his father and grandfather), as did Pompey, Crassus, Cicero, Augustus, etc. Become known by theirs.   Gaius Caesar Augustus Germanicus had three nicknames, and picked up the fourth, Caligula, early in his life.

Interesting fact:  daughters of aristocratic Romans didn;t have personal names; they all went by the family name (thus Caesar had two aunts, both named Julia, a sister Julia, and a daughter Julia).

I'm not big on Roman names, but I think Augustus was a title, not a nickname. As was Germanicus, Britannicus etc.
And Julius Caesar was more of a double surname than a nickname, denoting a branch of the Julii. It's odd that Caesar, of all people, never had a personal nickname.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on January 02, 2021, 06:07:56 PM
Nicknames were passed down sometimes.  The Romans had lousy system of naming, they only a had few first names and some first names were excusive to certain families/clans.  In Julius Caesar's case Caesar was the nickname.  Since nicknames were also passed down, people often had another nickname that was exclusive to them, at least until their decedents claimed it as well.  The result was people would end up with a really long names.

The first sentence in Grave's I, Claudius is:

Quote""I, Tiberius Claudius Drusus Nero Germanicus This-that-and-the-other (for I shall not trouble you yet with all my titles) who was once, and not so long ago either, known to my friends and relatives and associates as "Claudius the Idiot", or "That Claudius", or "Claudius the Stammerer", or "Clau-Clau-Claudius" or at best as "Poor Uncle Claudius", am now about to write this strange history of my life; starting from my earliest childhood and continuing year by year until I reach the fateful point of change where, some eight years ago, at the age of fifty-one, I suddenly found myself caught in what I may call the "golden predicament" from which I have never since become disentangled."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 03, 2021, 11:12:05 AM
Quote from: Maladict on January 02, 2021, 05:06:58 PM
I'm not big on Roman names, but I think Augustus was a title, not a nickname. As was Germanicus, Britannicus etc.
And Julius Caesar was more of a double surname than a nickname, denoting a branch of the Julii. It's odd that Caesar, of all people, never had a personal nickname.

There were cognomen that were awarded by the Senate (Africanus, Asiaticus, Germanicus, etc) after a proconsul won a new province or achieved a great victory in a foreign theater, but they were cognomen, not titles.  They would be passed down to descendants.  Augustus was like that.  It later became a title, as did Caesar (which, as we know, morphed in Kaiser and Czar).

Caesar was a cognomen that did, indeed, distinguish a branch of the Julii, but it still was a cognomen, even though we aren't sure what it meant.  Caesar turned down Gallicus as an awarded cognomen because he wanted to seem humble.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on January 03, 2021, 12:17:10 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 03, 2021, 11:12:05 AM
Quote from: Maladict on January 02, 2021, 05:06:58 PM
I'm not big on Roman names, but I think Augustus was a title, not a nickname. As was Germanicus, Britannicus etc.
And Julius Caesar was more of a double surname than a nickname, denoting a branch of the Julii. It's odd that Caesar, of all people, never had a personal nickname.

There were cognomen that were awarded by the Senate (Africanus, Asiaticus, Germanicus, etc) after a proconsul won a new province or achieved a great victory in a foreign theater, but they were cognomen, not titles.  They would be passed down to descendants.  Augustus was like that.  It later became a title, as did Caesar (which, as we know, morphed in Kaiser and Czar).

Caesar was a cognomen that did, indeed, distinguish a branch of the Julii, but it still was a cognomen, even though we aren't sure what it meant.  Caesar turned down Gallicus as an awarded cognomen because he wanted to seem humble.

Using cognomen or agnomen makes it easier, nickname doesn't quite fit as a translation. Interesting how some of the victory title agomina became cognomina and others did not. Africanus was awarded twice to the Scipios and the Aemilii but didn't stick.


Incidentally, I never realized Coriolanus was an agnomen, for the capture of Corioli.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 04, 2021, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 31, 2020, 08:28:01 PM
'The Lord of the Rings'

Well crafted high fantasy.

First re-read in probably 20 years, a bit disappointed that I remembered nearly all of it, the only scene I didn't recall was a chat between Frodo and Gloin at the meal in Rivendell.

I'm a fan of Tolkien, but so much of high fantasy is influenced by Tolkien , it is refreshing to read something that isn't. One recommendation is Gormengast and Titus Groan - a world as immersive as Tolkien's, but utterly different.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 04, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 04, 2021, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 31, 2020, 08:28:01 PM
'The Lord of the Rings'

Well crafted high fantasy.

First re-read in probably 20 years, a bit disappointed that I remembered nearly all of it, the only scene I didn't recall was a chat between Frodo and Gloin at the meal in Rivendell.

I'm a fan of Tolkien, but so much of high fantasy is influenced by Tolkien , it is refreshing to read something that isn't. One recommendation is Gormengast and Titus Groan - a world as immersive as Tolkien's, but utterly different.

Yes those are good recommendations, been on my reading list for a while. I had Gormengast, but lent it to someone and never got it back.  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 05, 2021, 12:06:32 AM
Quote from: Malthus on January 04, 2021, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 31, 2020, 08:28:01 PM
'The Lord of the Rings'

Well crafted high fantasy.

First re-read in probably 20 years, a bit disappointed that I remembered nearly all of it, the only scene I didn't recall was a chat between Frodo and Gloin at the meal in Rivendell.

I'm a fan of Tolkien, but so much of high fantasy is influenced by Tolkien , it is refreshing to read something that isn't. One recommendation is Gormengast and Titus Groan - a world as immersive as Tolkien's, but utterly different.

:lol:  Possibly the most over-written fantasy books ever.  By the end, you won't know or care what the original plot was.  There were actually three books in the series, but I can understand your not mentioning Titus Alone.  That book was a bigger mess than the first two (which is saying a lot!)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 05, 2021, 12:23:40 AM
People looking for some low fantasy along the lines of Joe Abercrombie's First Law series need look no further than Joe Abercrombie's three subsequent novels in that milieu, Best Served Cold, The Heroes, and Red Country.

BSC is the best of the bunch, followed by Red Country.  I thought The Heroes was just depressing - it is everything you didn't like about the elements of The North in First Law (gloomy character and setting), distilled.  It des have a fair number of characters from the first trilogy.

His new trilogy starts off pretty well (A Little Hatred) but I decided to hold off on the second and third books until the series is finished.

If you like the kind of gritty "realism" and sharp dialogue of GRRM, you might like Daniel Polansky.  His books make no effort to have likable characters or happy endings, but his writing is good and his dialogue terrific. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 05, 2021, 02:05:22 AM
I think the best thing with Tolkien is that he really stands up as a writer (I only read LOTR in the last couple of years) which isn't always the case with fantasy writers from just 20 or 40 years ago, far less 90. I also think he's probably very interesting from an eco-criticism perspective.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 05, 2021, 10:04:39 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 05, 2021, 12:06:32 AM
Quote from: Malthus on January 04, 2021, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 31, 2020, 08:28:01 PM
'The Lord of the Rings'

Well crafted high fantasy.

First re-read in probably 20 years, a bit disappointed that I remembered nearly all of it, the only scene I didn't recall was a chat between Frodo and Gloin at the meal in Rivendell.

I'm a fan of Tolkien, but so much of high fantasy is influenced by Tolkien , it is refreshing to read something that isn't. One recommendation is Gormengast and Titus Groan - a world as immersive as Tolkien's, but utterly different.

:lol:  Possibly the most over-written fantasy books ever.  By the end, you won't know or care what the original plot was.  There were actually three books in the series, but I can understand your not mentioning Titus Alone.  That book was a bigger mess than the first two (which is saying a lot!)

Yes, we have established that we have different tastes in fantasy.

I recommend these as a different take on high fantasy. I do not guarantee that they will please everyone. However, I believe that there is a good reason they are widely considered modern classics.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on January 06, 2021, 08:26:41 AM
Piranesi. Very enjoyable.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 08, 2021, 04:46:00 PM
Finished SPQR.  Frankly I was expecting more given all the hype.  Decent book and it did fill in a lot of knowledge gaps about early Rome.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 09, 2021, 10:46:51 PM
'Greybeard' by Brian Aldiss, has some echoes of the odd/extraordinary times we're living through.


A worthwhile read, must have been to finish it within the day. I don't know why it's taken me so long to get around to reading this, given it's been available during nearly all of my lifespan.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 12, 2021, 11:14:39 AM
Today I received Uniforms and Flags of the Imperial Austrian Army 1683-1720, by Hall and Boeri, and Austria's Wars of Emergence 1683-1797, by Hochedlinger. Nice. I've read Duffy's excellent books on the Austrian army of the Seven Years War, but I've been looking for solid info on the earlier period.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 13, 2021, 05:40:39 AM
Btw, what's the deal with people writing "Foreward" instead of "Foreword"? I've seen it more than once. Is it some kind of pun crap?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 13, 2021, 08:20:01 AM
Nope, just people not knowing what a foreword actually is.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 17, 2021, 10:03:51 PM
Arnhem:The Battle for the Bridges, 1944' by Anthony Beevor, very good for it's narrative history elements.

Can't comment on his conclusions about the strategy and the operational matters, as I've no real knowledge of military matters.

I will say, once again Montgomery is shameful, but perhaps not as duplicitous as Browning and Horrocks is shown in a bad light.

Eisenhower seems a remote, almost disinterested figure, most of the rest of the US generals get a pass, with Gavin's leadership of the 82nd being first class.

edit:
For someone like me, the film 'A Bridge To Far' is a bit of a distraction, hard to read about Urquhart involvement without seeing the heroic Sean Connery or for that matter Anthony Hopkins leading the defence of the northern bridge end enclave.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 28, 2021, 08:59:07 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 12, 2021, 11:14:39 AM
Today I received Uniforms and Flags of the Imperial Austrian Army 1683-1720, by Hall and Boeri, and Austria's Wars of Emergence 1683-1797, by Hochedlinger. Nice. I've read Duffy's excellent books on the Austrian army of the Seven Years War, but I've been looking for solid info on the earlier period.

Finished both. The first does what it says on the tin, I have no reason to doubt the colors. The second is a nice description of Austrian administration, diplomacy, military, and wars of the period. I'm not an expert on Austria so cannot say how correct it is, but it seemed plausible.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 28, 2021, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 28, 2021, 08:59:07 AM
Today I received Uniforms and Flags of the Imperial Austrian Army 1683-1720,

You people are weird.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 29, 2021, 11:24:01 AM
'Bury My Heart At W.H.Smith's' by Brian Aldiss, - an entertaining read about writing, being an author, dealing with publishers, agents and literary events, Some nice details about working in 1950s Oxford bookshops and the eccentrics, academic and others that he encountered there.

Amusing anecdote "Sharing a jacuzzi with Doris Lessing represents the peak of my somewhat obscure literary career."

Nice story about John Betjeman regularly turning up at the bookshop in a battered van to sell boxes of old books to the proprietor, sometimes because he needed a new set of tyres.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 06, 2021, 10:18:43 AM
A bit further into A New History of Western Philosophy by Anthony Kenny. It's about 1000 small print pages, divided into 4 parts (Antiquity, Middle Ages, early modern, modern). Each part is two subparts: history of thinkers, and the contents of their works. I think it's an excellent overview of this admittedly broad subject.

But.

While I think it helps get a first overview/summary, it's also incredibly compressed. The second subpart of each part is divided into chapters that summarize one aspect of philosophy of the time. Here's 20 pages about metaphysics, 22 pages on soul and mind, 21 pages about epistemology, 20 pages about physics, 23 pages about ethics, 19 pages about logic ... you get the idea. It feels incredible dense to cram e.g. the thoughts about the soul from pre-Socratics to Augustine into 20-odd pages. For the most part it makes me rather want to pick up the original texts plus commentaries (and yes, a bunch of them are on their way courtesy of Amazon).

I'm not sure if I will finish the book at this point (it doesn't help that I'm still working my way through Philosophize This which provides a similar overview, but more conversationally and accessibly. I might instead use its extensive bibliography and lists of recommended books from the appendix as a guide.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 06, 2021, 11:17:01 AM
:hmm: Might give it a go. The only similar book I've read is Bertrand Russell's History of Western Philosophy which is great - he has a real voice and biases which I like though I am aware it has a lot of issues especially around pre-modern thinkers.

Separately it love In Our Time on Radio 4 but it might be worth having a look at their back catalogue on philosophy:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01f0vzr
Because if there's a concept or philosopher that you think is worth expanding on this might give a little bit of background/detail?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 06, 2021, 11:27:54 AM
To be fair, in the introduction he writes that he's conceptualized the book so that people can pick the parts they want from it, so only the history of philosophers, or only the ideas, or a mix etc.

I'm still in the "soaking it all up" phase, though I tend to veer towards ethics, epistemology, metaphysics, and political philosophy at the moment.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Zanza on February 06, 2021, 03:19:23 PM
My nephew has started reading comics a lot recently.  Stuff like Asterix or Lucky Luke. Next on the list is Prince Valiant. I own a really beautiful digitally remastered print edition and have started reading that again.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 06, 2021, 03:21:54 PM
I recall there was a rerelease of it not long ago?

I did pick up the box collection of Gaiman's Sandman comics last year and am still reading my way through it. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Zanza on February 06, 2021, 03:41:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 06, 2021, 03:21:54 PM
I recall there was a rerelease of it not long ago?
https://www.bocola.de/eisenherz.html
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 18, 2021, 06:35:08 AM
Finished The Lion From The North: The Swedish Army During The Thirty Years War, by von Essen, 2 volumes. A good modern overview. The first volume covers the reign of Gustavus Adolphus, and the second the post-1632 Swedish army. The second volume also briefly describes the navy, and the Swedish military in North America and Africa.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 18, 2021, 09:34:20 AM
When was the Swedish military in Africa?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 18, 2021, 09:35:16 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 18, 2021, 09:34:20 AM
When was the Swedish military in Africa?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Gold_Coast ?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 18, 2021, 09:36:07 AM
Huh.

as in, I had never heard of that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on February 18, 2021, 09:59:33 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 08, 2021, 04:46:00 PM
Finished SPQR.  Frankly I was expecting more given all the hype.  Decent book and it did fill in a lot of knowledge gaps about early Rome.

They say that SPQR means the "Senate and Roman people", but that's just a lie that classicalists propagate to cover up the existence of the secret masters. If you study Latin you learn that it actually means "Sporker".  Like Big Tech, Big Spork has terrifying power.  They run pretty much every cafeteria in the world, including the cafeteria in the US capitol.  It is history's biggest secret.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on February 18, 2021, 10:04:16 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 18, 2021, 09:34:20 AM
When was the Swedish military in Africa?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Crisis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Crisis)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on February 18, 2021, 11:04:39 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 18, 2021, 06:35:08 AM
Finished The Lion From The North: The Swedish Army During The Thirty Years War, by von Essen, 2 volumes. A good modern overview. The first volume covers the reign of Gustavus Adolphus, and the second the post-1632 Swedish army. The second volume also briefly describes the navy, and the Swedish military in North America and Africa.

https://youtu.be/T1gvNaC17B4
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 18, 2021, 03:07:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 18, 2021, 09:36:07 AM
Huh.

as in, I had never heard of that.

You're not the only one. I might not have heard of it if it wasn't for the Swedish comic Johan Vilde (John the Savage), which was a thing in Sweden in the late 70s and 80s (about a Swedish boy who goes native in Africa).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 18, 2021, 03:13:59 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 18, 2021, 11:04:39 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 18, 2021, 06:35:08 AM
Finished The Lion From The North: The Swedish Army During The Thirty Years War, by von Essen, 2 volumes. A good modern overview. The first volume covers the reign of Gustavus Adolphus, and the second the post-1632 Swedish army. The second volume also briefly describes the navy, and the Swedish military in North America and Africa.

https://youtu.be/T1gvNaC17B4

I learnt recently that Sabaton played in occupied Crimea in 2015, a concert organized by Putin's favorite biker gang. I'm not anal about artists acting within the bounds of decency, but that's a bit too much for me. Playing in Russia, fine, but giving Ukraine and democracy the finger like that... :(

Of course, the biggest crime of Sabaton remains that all their songs sound the same. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 26, 2021, 05:02:28 AM
Finished Red Famine: Stalin's War on Ukraine, by Applebaum. Very interesting and well written. I'm not an expert on the famine but my impression is that the book is an accurate description.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 26, 2021, 05:58:58 AM
I bought the 97 Cooper edition of Plato's Complete Works a while ago and have been working my way through its dialogues (it's sorted into Thrasyllus's tetralogies, which I understand is not how modern scholars would do it, but *shrug*. I found the first four ones surrounding Plato's trial and execution (Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phædo) quite interesting to work through. There's some good video by philosophy professors out there that give further background and analysis of the dialogues which I found helpful.

Similar, in the second tetralogy the Theaetetus and Sophist. Cratylus' endless pages of ancient Greek etymologies - yeah, could have done without. :D Currently on Statesman which is a bit of a slog. I'm not sure yet if I will stick with the reading order after this or if I will pick the ones on topics I'm interested in and that are considered his main works.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 26, 2021, 09:11:13 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 26, 2021, 05:02:28 AM
Finished Red Famine: Stalin's War on Ukraine, by Applebaum. Very interesting and well written. I'm not an expert on the famine but my impression is that the book is an accurate description.

:thumbsup:

I have been wanting to get this
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 26, 2021, 09:20:22 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 26, 2021, 05:58:58 AM
I bought the 97 Cooper edition of Plato's Complete Works a while ago and have been working my way through its dialogues (it's sorted into Thrasyllus's tetralogies, which I understand is not how modern scholars would do it, but *shrug*. I found the first four ones surrounding Plato's trial and execution (Cryto, Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phædo) quite interesting to work through. There's some good video by philosophy professors out there that give further background and analysis of the dialogues which I found helpful.

Similar, in the second tetralogy the Theaetetus and Sophist. Cratylus' endless pages of ancient Greek etymologies - yeah, could have done without. :D Currently on Statesman which is a bit of a slog. I'm not sure yet if I will stick with the reading order after this or if I will pick the ones on topics I'm interested in and that are considered his main works.

I recommend putting down Statesman and go to Gorgias. It is not only a good, and relatively short, example of the Socratic method but I think it sets the stage for the other pieces.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on February 28, 2021, 09:26:04 PM
A while ago I read a WW2 book "The Liberator" by Alex Kershaw. It's about a US infantry officer named Felix Sparks in the 45th division and all he and his unit went through. It told of the tough fighting, heavy casualties in places like Anzio where his unit barely held on, losing most of the company. It brought home the heavy casualties taken by this unit but which would be similar for any combat unit. They fought in Sicily, Italy, then into southern France into Germany. I wasn't really surprised by the heavy casualties as I've seen that before, and when looking at the actions of my Father's 90th division.

Also recently re-read a book "Samurai" about Saburo Sakai, Japanese Navy pilot. Kind of tough reading given that he was in an elite unit at times which shot down many allied aircraft. The Japanese later on suffered from not training enough pilots. Sakai describes how before war with the US/allies their training program was overly stringent about who could become a pilot. Later he lamented that process as his units were short of trained pilots as the war progressed.

They had lots of trouble with B-17s at first, surprised at how fast and rugged they were. But they found they could have more success with earlier models with head on attacks. Same as I've read before with German pilots vs bombers. I read one story about him damaging a US fighter aircraft so badly that it couldn't maneuver, rudder shot away, describing the pilot as a big man. The plane went down through some clouds. In a WW2 magazine I read recently of that encounter and found out that the pilot bailed out and survived.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on March 01, 2021, 12:13:44 AM
The Japanese pilot selection was so stringent because the Japanese High Command assured itself that the war would be won quickly, so quality counted more than quantity.  You could only carry around 70 planes on a carrier, so you wanted those seventy pilots to be elite.  That was pretty much their policy on ships and aircraft, as well.

The real Japanese mistake was to never allow pilots to rotate back to training units (except when disabled), like the other major powers did.  The lessons learned by the front-line pilots didn't get back to the pilots in training except very slowly and very incompletely.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on March 01, 2021, 02:05:27 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 01, 2021, 12:13:44 AM
The Japanese pilot selection was so stringent because the Japanese High Command assured itself that the war would be won quickly, so quality counted more than quantity.  You could only carry around 70 planes on a carrier, so you wanted those seventy pilots to be elite.  That was pretty much their policy on ships and aircraft, as well.

The real Japanese mistake was to never allow pilots to rotate back to training units (except when disabled), like the other major powers did.  The lessons learned by the front-line pilots didn't get back to the pilots in training except very slowly and very incompletely.

Yep, that sums up much of what the pilot said, and the Japanese military paid dearly for it, more and more, as the war went on.

Early in the war he was a Lae with an elite group of fighter pilots. He was at Iwo Jima when US aircraft first attacked but it would be quite a few months before the invasion as the allies were still moving through other Pacific islands. He said that Iwo was lightly defended and could have easily been taken at the time he was there. He also spoke of newer US aircraft, was mostly impressed and also spoke of new Japanese aircraft towards the end of the war as Japan developed some good models.

I saw in a documentary that Japan, along with getting jet tech from Germany, was probably equal to or better than Germany in jet aircraft tech and had secret underground factories. They would have had at least some and maybe quite a few if an invasion of Japan had occurred.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on March 01, 2021, 02:54:42 PM
The first Japanese jet flew its first test flight the day after Hiroshima was bombed.  There was no hope that it could have been in operational units by November and, in any case, it was inferior in all respects to the P-51 other than, maybe, firepower.

The US would have been better-advised to attack Iwo Jima along with the Marianas, rather than Palau.  Palau was not strategically valuable, and Gen Kuribayashi had only just arrived on Iwo Jima.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on March 01, 2021, 03:34:04 PM
Interesting. I had wondered if the US should have or would have been able to attack Iwo Jima a lot sooner. Given that US carrier planes were attacking the island it would have been a huge advantage if an invasion could have been planned. But I assume there were other areas the US considered necessary before Iwo. What you say about bypassing Palau may have been a better path to get there faster; I'm not that familiar with that possibility. My great uncle fought as a Marine on Iwo and had some hair raising stories of it along with some wounds received there. As a youngster I asked him if his unit fought at Okinawa after Iwo. He just said there was nobody left.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on March 01, 2021, 08:25:16 PM
Iwo Jima featured the 1st, 3rd, and 4th Marine divisions and Okinawa the 2nd, 5th, and 6th Marine Divisions (plus four Army divisions).  Only the Naval units fought at both (in part because their invasion planning and training was much simpler).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on March 01, 2021, 09:19:15 PM
My uncle was in the 4th Marine division. About ten years ago one of my relatives told the story of his time at Iwo Jima. He was the nephew of my Marine great uncle (not sure what that makes him to me in relation). Anyway, he was on a cruiser offshore and knew a guy in the radio room so would check casualty lists every day to see if his uncle was on it. One day found out he was but the wounds weren't life threatening, though my uncle got a bit of a limp from it and still had pieces of shrapnel coming out years later. It was a bit emotional listening to him tell the story and he was emotional telling it. It was the first I'd ever heard about that and found it an amazing piece of the story.

A bit maudlin perhaps but as we talked about this some of these family stories came back to me. And these are the tame stories.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 13, 2021, 04:25:29 PM
I've been plodding through Brandon Sanderson's The Final Empire. Man his writing style is... rough.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on March 13, 2021, 08:35:37 PM
Reading The Human Face of Karate by Tadashi  Nakamura.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on March 13, 2021, 10:20:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2021, 04:25:29 PM
I've been plodding through Brandon Sanderson's The Final Empire. Man his writing style is... rough.

I skipped massive chunks of his books finishing off the Wheel of Time series.  One entire book was about just one battle.  As you say, rough going (and for a crap finish, at that, though that was probably Jordan's fault).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on March 14, 2021, 04:25:11 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 13, 2021, 10:20:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2021, 04:25:29 PM
I've been plodding through Brandon Sanderson's The Final Empire. Man his writing style is... rough.

I skipped massive chunks of his books finishing off the Wheel of Time series.  One entire book was about just one battle.  As you say, rough going (and for a crap finish, at that, though that was probably Jordan's fault).

I read the Mistborn books to get an idea of him as an author before he completed the Wheel of Time books. I wasn't overly impressed although found them readable.

However, Tim raved about the Stormlight Archive and (given their length) I succumbed when I needed something to read when sitting around in the waiting room when on jury duty. They are quite good, and I found myself reading them both quite fast and in full (rather than speed-reading as I sometimes do these days.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 14, 2021, 04:53:30 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on March 14, 2021, 04:25:11 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 13, 2021, 10:20:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2021, 04:25:29 PM
I've been plodding through Brandon Sanderson's The Final Empire. Man his writing style is... rough.

I skipped massive chunks of his books finishing off the Wheel of Time series.  One entire book was about just one battle.  As you say, rough going (and for a crap finish, at that, though that was probably Jordan's fault).

I read the Mistborn books to get an idea of him as an author before he completed the Wheel of Time books. I wasn't overly impressed although found them readable.

My concern is that his characters seem to swing about wildly in their motivations and he has had a couple times where his character thinks esentially 'that makes sense now' when it very much doesn't. :lol:

He also seems to being doing his best to exemplify 'telling rather than showing'. :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on March 14, 2021, 07:21:43 PM
I generally find Sanderson in the pretty decent category. What he lacks in quality he makes up for in volume.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Scipio on March 15, 2021, 05:11:51 PM
I'm enjoying the Simon Winder books Germania, Danubia, and Lotharingia.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on March 15, 2021, 05:36:20 PM
Quote from: Scipio on March 15, 2021, 05:11:51 PM
I'm enjoying the Simon Winder books Germania, Danubia, and Lotharingia.

Those were a lot of fun - my copies are full of bookmarks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 15, 2021, 05:48:31 PM
They're great.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 16, 2021, 06:33:20 AM
Anyone following https://fivebooks.com/ and can say whether or not their recommendations are worth it? :unsure: :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 16, 2021, 07:17:11 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 14, 2021, 07:21:43 PM
I generally find Sanderson in the pretty decent category. What he lacks in quality he makes up for in volume.

Is this joke?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 19, 2021, 06:15:57 PM
Just finished Alan Hollinghurst's The Stranger's Child and will shortly read his latest, The Sparsholt Affair.

So I love Hollinghurst. He's a controversial figure in gay lit (and I do have some queries about his racial politics) because he's one of those gay lit writers who seem to be aiming for "respectability" formally, like Edmund White. They write in a way that is recognisably canon - in the case of Hollinghurst, his great influences are Henry James and Wodehouse.

In a way this is a recurring theme in Hollinghurst's work. His books are full of beautiful houses and the English establishment (famously a party with Thatcher in The Line of Beauty), but the characters he's focusing on are sort of sexy gay interlopers who'll be cruising the party or on their way to an orgy. They fit in - they're somehow wealthy, witty and literary - but also crash the party. And I think in a way that's been what Hollinghurst is doing. His novels are realist and very easy to read on the surface - they fit in. But then there's this deep pull of irony and some of the sharpest, most precise descriptions of individuals and social events you can read. And typically they include a lot of sex - The Stranger's Child is a fairly chaste exception - so much that I've seen his genre described as "gay sex pastoral" :lol:

The Stranger's Child starts with a minor Georgian poet, Cecil Valance, visiting the suburban home of his Cambridge friend in 1913. During his weekend stay he gets drunk, declaims his poetry, repeatedly ravages his friend, the son of the family, and roughly kisses the 16 year old daughter of the house too. He then writes a poem named after the house, Two Acres, about this "Two acres of English land". The novel then moves forward - 20s, 60s, 80s, 2000s - as the characters from that first visit move through their lives and, as if in parallel, Valance's own reputation shifts from being a sort of Rupert Brooke figure to merely "something of a poet", "a first rate example of a second rate poet" and ultimately the subject of a revelatory/revisionist biography about his broad sexual appetites. Changing taste is a wider theme in the novel (and bad taste or bad art, possibly the only crime in Hollinghurst's eyes) as we see the public turn against and then enjoy Victoriana such as the Valance's country home.

But it feels like it's a novel about Hollinghurst's wider theme, which I've always enjoyed, except this time instead of simply doing it by example he's written a novel that is exactly about the gays who've always been in the canon. He's looking back and filling in the blanks with the essential role gays played in constructing a certain version of Englishness (James, the War Poets, Forster, the Bloomsbury group etc).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 19, 2021, 06:41:44 PM
The Sparsholt Affair? Bleh.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Valmy on March 19, 2021, 10:52:07 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 16, 2021, 07:17:11 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 14, 2021, 07:21:43 PM
I generally find Sanderson in the pretty decent category. What he lacks in quality he makes up for in volume.

Is this joke?  :hmm:

Why would it be a joke? Being able to consistently produce is a nice quality for an author, especially one who you can generally expect to be a fun read. It is not like he is publishing academic tomes or something.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on March 20, 2021, 09:32:41 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on March 14, 2021, 04:25:11 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 13, 2021, 10:20:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2021, 04:25:29 PM
I've been plodding through Brandon Sanderson's The Final Empire. Man his writing style is... rough.

I skipped massive chunks of his books finishing off the Wheel of Time series.  One entire book was about just one battle.  As you say, rough going (and for a crap finish, at that, though that was probably Jordan's fault).

I read the Mistborn books to get an idea of him as an author before he completed the Wheel of Time books. I wasn't overly impressed although found them readable.

However, Tim raved about the Stormlight Archive and (given their length) I succumbed when I needed something to read when sitting around in the waiting room when on jury duty. They are quite good, and I found myself reading them both quite fast and in full (rather than speed-reading as I sometimes do these days.)

I really liked the Mistborn books! Well done, good and fast read. Good characters that I could cheer for. It was different and interesting how those with the abilities could ingest types of metals to perform feats of movement and combat.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on March 20, 2021, 09:35:04 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 13, 2021, 10:20:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2021, 04:25:29 PM
I've been plodding through Brandon Sanderson's The Final Empire. Man his writing style is... rough.

I skipped massive chunks of his books finishing off the Wheel of Time series.  One entire book was about just one battle.  As you say, rough going (and for a crap finish, at that, though that was probably Jordan's fault).
I haven't finished the Wheel of Time series. I really liked the first few books, probably read into about book five. But stopped and haven't gotten back into the series for a while now.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 20, 2021, 09:43:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 19, 2021, 10:52:07 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 16, 2021, 07:17:11 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 14, 2021, 07:21:43 PM
I generally find Sanderson in the pretty decent category. What he lacks in quality he makes up for in volume.

Is this joke?  :hmm:

Why would it be a joke? Being able to consistently produce is a nice quality for an author, especially one who you can generally expect to be a fun read. It is not like he is publishing academic tomes or something.

If he's a fun read, then he's not lacking in quality.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 23, 2021, 03:01:48 AM
As someone who has taught elementary school in Asia, I found this very authentic.

https://www.marycagle.com/letsspeakenglish/prologue-1-off-we-go
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Tamas on March 23, 2021, 03:14:42 AM
I am quite a fan of the Stormliggt archive series. Not the depth of characters of which there is very little, but the world building and that the story is not telegraphed.

Was Mistborn where the main protagonist was this teenage girl? I kind of liked the first book but the second seemed to go all in on the teenage girl angst angle and I gave up.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 23, 2021, 03:48:06 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 23, 2021, 03:14:42 AM
Was Mistborn where the main protagonist was this teenage girl? I kind of liked the first book but the second seemed to go all in on the teenage girl angst angle and I gave up.

Yes, where as a street urchin, she has been abused her whole life and is wary of strangers (even the rest of the protagonists) but as soon as she has some banter with a nobleman at a party (supposedly her enemy), she starts falling in love. Everytime she goes to a ball at first she has a few paragraphs where she is paralyzed about whether the nobility know she is a fake but then remembers they just see her fictional persona not her but where is the dividing line between her persona and herself. Then in approximately 6 months or so of the good life, she opines about how bored she is when she can't go to a ball but thinks well things could be worse and as a reader you're like well yes, you knowing it could be fucking worse, your whole life until recently was worse than boredom. Then as we whip toward the conclusion, though she knows the noble she loves is nothing more than a [spoiler]dilettante (and we even get a POV chapter for him showing how naive he is), she ensures no one kills him and he is crowned king with her narrating that he'll be a good king. Umm, why?[/spoiler]

And that's not even touching on Kelsier's plotline...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Tamas on March 23, 2021, 11:14:45 AM
Yeah, still, I would recommend the Stormlight series. There are weaker parts for sure and the characters are kind of paper thin, but the word building is really cool, the confusing /seemingly random things at the start all fall into place eventually. Plus there are twists and such. The good parts well worth going through the weaker ones. Latest one was book 5 in November, once I discovered it was out I read through it very quickly.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on March 24, 2021, 01:04:38 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 23, 2021, 11:14:45 AM
Yeah, still, I would recommend the Stormlight series. There are weaker parts for sure and the characters are kind of paper thin, but the word building is really cool, the confusing /seemingly random things at the start all fall into place eventually. Plus there are twists and such. The good parts well worth going through the weaker ones. Latest one was book 5 in November, once I discovered it was out I read through it very quickly.

Book 4 was released last November; I had had it on pre-order for months. Sadly no release date yet for book 5, although I think he takes between 2 and 2.5 years per release as he is writing a large number of other series.

Although there are technically six books/releases - two novellas have been released, one takes place between books 2 and 3, and one that occurs between books 3 and 4.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 24, 2021, 01:20:43 PM
I liked book 1 of Stormlight.  I picked up book 2 sometime last year and found that I had no idea what was going on in the opening two chapters so just put it down and haven't picked it back up. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josephus on March 25, 2021, 11:43:27 AM
Highly recommend Midnight in Chernobyl. Excellent rundown of what happened that fateful day and the following months.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 25, 2021, 01:16:51 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 23, 2021, 03:01:48 AM
As someone who has taught elementary school in Asia, I found this very authentic.

https://www.marycagle.com/letsspeakenglish/prologue-1-off-we-go

Aren't you qualified to teach in US?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 25, 2021, 09:54:02 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on March 24, 2021, 01:04:38 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 23, 2021, 11:14:45 AM
Yeah, still, I would recommend the Stormlight series. There are weaker parts for sure and the characters are kind of paper thin, but the word building is really cool, the confusing /seemingly random things at the start all fall into place eventually. Plus there are twists and such. The good parts well worth going through the weaker ones. Latest one was book 5 in November, once I discovered it was out I read through it very quickly.
Book 4 was released last November; I had had it on pre-order for months. Sadly no release date yet for book 5, although I think he takes between 2 and 2.5 years per release as he is writing a large number of other series.

Although there are technically six books/releases - two novellas have been released, one takes place between books 2 and 3, and one that occurs between books 3 and 4.
Two novellas? I read the one about Lift, What's the other one about? 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 25, 2021, 09:56:31 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 25, 2021, 01:16:51 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 23, 2021, 03:01:48 AM
As someone who has taught elementary school in Asia, I found this very authentic.

https://www.marycagle.com/letsspeakenglish/prologue-1-off-we-go

Aren't you qualified to teach in US?
Yes, to teach middle and high school social studies in RI and any state that accepts that certification.

I have taught at a middle school, a high school, an elementary school, a middle school and now a University in Korea.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on March 26, 2021, 04:29:14 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 25, 2021, 09:54:02 PM
Two novellas? I read the one about Lift, What's the other one about?

Well, too quote Amazon as I am a little lazy -

QuoteWhen a ghost ship is discovered, its crew presumed dead after trying to reach the storm-shrouded island Akinah, Navani Kholin must send an expedition to make sure the island hasn't fallen into enemy hands. Knights Radiant who fly too near find their Stormlight suddenly drained, so the voyage must be by sea.

Shipowner Rysn Ftori lost the use of her legs but gained the companionship of Chiri-Chiri, a Stormlight-ingesting winged larkin, a species once thought extinct. Now Rysn's pet is ill, and any hope for Chiri-Chiri's recovery can be found only at the ancestral home of the larkin: Akinah. With the help of Lopen, the formerly one-armed Windrunner, Rysn must accept Navani's quest and sail into the perilous storm from which no one has returned alive. If the crew cannot uncover the secrets of the hidden island city before the wrath of its ancient guardians falls upon them, the fate of Roshar and the entire Cosmere hangs in the balance.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on March 28, 2021, 08:21:56 AM
Does anyone know any books about extinct North American Pleistocene?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on March 28, 2021, 08:47:50 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 25, 2021, 09:56:31 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 25, 2021, 01:16:51 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 23, 2021, 03:01:48 AM
As someone who has taught elementary school in Asia, I found this very authentic.

https://www.marycagle.com/letsspeakenglish/prologue-1-off-we-go

Aren't you qualified to teach in US?
Yes, to teach middle and high school social studies in RI and any state that accepts that certification.

I have taught at a middle school, a high school, an elementary school, a middle school and now a University in Korea.

Very nice, that's a great career you have. I remember when we were all a lot younger and several of us met up at the King Richard's Fare. Caliga and his wife were there with you and me. That Fare is a good time!  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 16, 2021, 11:48:18 AM
Today I received The Great War Dawning: Germany and its Army at the start of World War 1, by Buchholz et al, from Verlag Militaria. Looks nice, including some cool facsimile loose diagrams and maps. "This will become the seminal English language book on the German army as it entered World War 1". Hopefully it's as good as it thinks it is. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on April 16, 2021, 12:02:25 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 16, 2021, 11:48:18 AM
Today I received The Great War Dawning: Germany and its Army at the start of World War 1, by Buchholz et al, from Verlag Militaria. Looks nice, including some cool facsimile loose diagrams and maps. "This will become the seminal English language book on the German army as it entered World War 1". Hopefully it's as good as it thinks it is. :)

Yeah, it's got an obnoxious publisher's description, but the authors likely had nothing to do with writing that.  $97 for 550 pages with no plates and just a couple of fold-out maps is more than I'll pay, but I'll be interested to read your impressions.

Someone's trying to sell it on Abebooks for twice the cover price when it's still available from Amazon at cover price.  :wacko:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 16, 2021, 12:05:49 PM
Quote from: grumbler on April 16, 2021, 12:02:25 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 16, 2021, 11:48:18 AM
Today I received The Great War Dawning: Germany and its Army at the start of World War 1, by Buchholz et al, from Verlag Militaria. Looks nice, including some cool facsimile loose diagrams and maps. "This will become the seminal English language book on the German army as it entered World War 1". Hopefully it's as good as it thinks it is. :)

Yeah, it's got an obnoxious publisher's description, but the authors likely had nothing to do with writing that.  $97 for 550 pages with no plates and just a couple of fold-out maps is more than I'll pay, but I'll be interested to read your impressions.

Someone's trying to sell it on Abebooks for twice the cover price when it's still available from Amazon at cover price.  :wacko:

There are 80 high quality plates. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on April 16, 2021, 12:10:19 PM
I've been reading a fair bit of Craig Schaefer lately on Kindle Unlimited.  I originally got drawn in by his Revanche Cycle, four books recommended by a friend as "the best dark fantasy since Song of Ice and Fire."  It's very good, if you like your dark fantasy dark, indeed.  I also decided to get one of his Urban Fantasy books, Ghosts of Gotham.  Also very good.  I figured that I was on a roll, so tried another book by him.  Not good.  In fact, it looks from the descriptions that I've read all of his books that I would want to read.  Witches versus werewolves is not my thing.

But I would recommend the five books I named.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on April 16, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 16, 2021, 12:05:49 PM
Quote from: grumbler on April 16, 2021, 12:02:25 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 16, 2021, 11:48:18 AM
Today I received The Great War Dawning: Germany and its Army at the start of World War 1, by Buchholz et al, from Verlag Militaria. Looks nice, including some cool facsimile loose diagrams and maps. "This will become the seminal English language book on the German army as it entered World War 1". Hopefully it's as good as it thinks it is. :)

Yeah, it's got an obnoxious publisher's description, but the authors likely had nothing to do with writing that.  $97 for 550 pages with no plates and just a couple of fold-out maps is more than I'll pay, but I'll be interested to read your impressions.

Someone's trying to sell it on Abebooks for twice the cover price when it's still available from Amazon at cover price.  :wacko:

There are 80 high quality plates. :)

Ah, then the price is understandable.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 18, 2021, 05:26:58 PM
I'm reading The Western Front Companion: The Complete Guide to How the Armies Fought for Four Devastating Years 1914-1918, by Adkin. He's done similiar books on Waterloo and I think others. I like it a lot. It's a very generous book, big format, more than 500 pages, lots of text and images (in color). It describes all the different aspects of war on the Western Front, with focus on the British and shorter descriptions of other forces. It is NOT a history of the Western Front. AFACT it's reasonably factually correct. Since it describes "everything", unless you're a Western Front expert you're bound to learn something about the less famous parts. For instance I learned a lot about mounted cavalry actions post-1914, something that often gets cut from general histories of the war.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 18, 2021, 06:27:07 PM
Anyone know any good books about revolutionary and republican China?

I've got loads of novels from the period (both European and Chinese) which make it sound really interesting. But would be interested in non-fiction.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on April 20, 2021, 03:52:14 PM
I've been reading my "Norton Anthology of British Literature" that I got in college.  I recently got to Edmund Spenser's "The Faerie Queen."  The entire second book was abridged except for the final canto which features The Bower of Bliss.  At the time (the 90s) scholarship was divided on whether The Bower of Bliss represented artifice and fakery; or if it was a critique on the idolatry and lustfulness Spenser saw as endemic in Ireland and the Americas.  I thought that it could be both if Spenser had foreseen Las Vegas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui0EgRsFVN8).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on April 29, 2021, 03:35:32 PM
I just came upon "Doctor Faustus" by Christopher Marlowe in the Norton Anthology.  Marlowe's major tragedies (Doctor Faustus, Tamburlaine and The Jew of Malta) all deal with the theme of men who try to exceed human limits (in knowledge, power and money respectively.)  In Doctor Faustus's case he sells his soul to the devil so that Mephistopheles will be his servant for 24 years, giving him nearly limitless power and he uses that power to do nothing in particular. 

I've never read Goethe's Faust, but I'm led to believe that he's a Byronic hero of the Romantic age; a man who defies all convention to live on his own terms.  Marlowe's Faust is a hero for the Generation X 90's Slacker Age; a man who has limitless power, but choses to do nothing. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on April 29, 2021, 07:47:33 PM
I bought various old maps from a 2nd hand bookshop, does that count for this thread? :unsure:

After all you can 'read' them, I particularly the older One in to the mile OS maps, just the right scale for my exploring and some don't have contour lines, rather the hills are represented by a semi-3D artistic shading.  :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on April 30, 2021, 02:26:18 AM
Quote from: mongers on April 29, 2021, 07:47:33 PM
I bought various old maps from a 2nd hand bookshop, does that count for this thread? :unsure:

After all you can 'read' them, I particularly the older One in to the mile OS maps, just the right scale for my exploring and some don't have contour lines, rather the hills are represented by a semi-3D artistic shading.  :bowler:

It would be more of a pamphlet than a book, but sure it counts. It's been a while since I read an atlas cover to cover, but then again I don't finish every book I start either.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 30, 2021, 02:46:57 AM
I realized something the other day.

I like historical non-fiction books.
I generally like historical drama series and movies (even if not historically accurate).
Same with games.
I like reading literary classics from past periods.

But I don't generally like the idea of reading historic fiction, like novels about ancient Rome or such. :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 30, 2021, 02:50:22 AM
To me one of the joys of history is that it did happen and isn't made up (disclaimer for messerschmidts: I know that not everything claimed by historians is true).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 30, 2021, 02:58:22 AM
True, but that doesn't bother me in some media. E.g. I enjoy I, Claudius, though it is quite fictional in its account (e.g. supporting the lie that the Battle of Teutoburg Forest happened :P ).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 30, 2021, 06:48:09 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 30, 2021, 02:46:57 AM
I realized something the other day.

I like historical non-fiction books.
I generally like historical drama series and movies (even if not historically accurate).
Same with games.
I like reading literary classics from past periods.

But I don't generally like the idea of reading historic fiction, like novels about ancient Rome or such. :unsure:
:hmm:

Yeah. I do like some historical fiction but having said that, thinking about it I'm not particularly interested in the Bernard Cornwell sort of novel that is about history - if that makes sense.

I think I'd basically split my historical fiction consumption in two - "literary"/high-brow writers who write the past. So Hilary Mantel (I love A Place of Greater Safety), Mary Renault, Wu Ming/Luther Blissett (Q novels basically), Colm Toibin writing about Henry James, or Alan Hollinghurst writing novels spanning the entire 20th century.

And historical crime fiction :lol: The past is just a setting and generally the characters are basically modern - so SJ Sansom, the Falco novels etc. Some are still a little alienating/try to have characters of the past - An Instance of the Fingerpost comes to mind.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 30, 2021, 11:16:32 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 16, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 16, 2021, 12:05:49 PM
Quote from: grumbler on April 16, 2021, 12:02:25 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 16, 2021, 11:48:18 AM
Today I received The Great War Dawning: Germany and its Army at the start of World War 1, by Buchholz et al, from Verlag Militaria. Looks nice, including some cool facsimile loose diagrams and maps. "This will become the seminal English language book on the German army as it entered World War 1". Hopefully it's as good as it thinks it is. :)

Yeah, it's got an obnoxious publisher's description, but the authors likely had nothing to do with writing that.  $97 for 550 pages with no plates and just a couple of fold-out maps is more than I'll pay, but I'll be interested to read your impressions.

Someone's trying to sell it on Abebooks for twice the cover price when it's still available from Amazon at cover price.  :wacko:

There are 80 high quality plates. :)

Ah, then the price is understandable.

Finished it. Editing could have been better. The basic information on the structure of the Reich, army organization etc is fine AFAICT, and useful as an English language source of information. However, the analysis is weak. If anyone wants to I can elaborate on this weakness, but it's not really necessary IMHO.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 07, 2021, 12:32:14 PM
I learned that Sherlock Holmes's catchphrase, "The game is afoot" comes from Shakespeare's "Henry IV Part I" (and is derived from a hunting term.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 07, 2021, 12:34:37 PM
Also I made a donation to the Florida Historical Society and they sent me "A History of the Florida Historical Society;" (without my asking, or informing me that was a gift to contributors.)   It's totally recursive.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 09, 2021, 09:57:31 AM
(https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1620571439-20210509.png)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 09, 2021, 09:58:17 AM
Accurate.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 09, 2021, 10:02:02 AM
Holocaust deniers are weird.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 19, 2021, 07:08:21 PM
Grumbler your a naval guy right?


Any recommendations for naval actions of WW1 and Russia Japan War? Just Glantzy type books if possible.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on May 19, 2021, 08:06:56 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 19, 2021, 07:08:21 PM
Grumbler your a naval guy right?


Any recommendations for naval actions of WW1 and Russia Japan War? Just Glantzy type books if possible.

Probably the best analytical work on WW1 naval action is The Rules of the Game https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B6TZGLM/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B6TZGLM/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1) which, though it deals directly only with the RN, tells a pretty universal tale of the links between the Victorian Era's focus on social roles, and the influence of that focus on naval operations.  It's not Glantz-like in its technical detail, though.

Though it isn't exclusively on the Russo-Japanese War, Kaigun https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DRYEMH2/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DRYEMH2/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1) is very Glantz-like and covers the topic well (it's 700 pages long, so can spare 200 pages to the early Japanese navy through the R-JW and still have 500 pages for post RJW developments (WW1, leadup to WW2, and the first few vbatles of WW2 before the whole IJN strategy collapsed).  It's a terrific investment and worth buying used in hardback.  It's just the Japanese POV, though.

For the Russian POV, I'd recommend The Tsar's Last Armada: The Epic Journey to the Battle of Tsushima https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XBZGR5S/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XBZGR5S/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1)  though it is scarcely Glantz-like, being a bit romantic and focusing more on the struggles of the Russian fleet to get to its doom than on strategy or tactics or equipment.  It's well-written, though not by a naval historian.  Get it in Kindle.

You could also get Vladimir Semenoff's two books on the RJW, but they are as far from Glantz as you could get, being first-person accounts by a Russian officer whose ship survived the Battle of the Yellow Sea and rushed back to Russia, only to find himself assigned to the flagship of the Second Pacific Squadron, on which he lumbered back to Tsushima.  His story is great, but his prose is antique and he deliberately eschewed consulting any works other than his diary, to avoid hindsight. Another kindle candidate unless you skip him completely.

The most Glantz-like book on WW1 naval actions is probably Friedman's Fighting the Great War at Sea https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SGC4WYY/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SGC4WYY/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1) but you will find the writing dry as dust.  More useful as a reference book, perhaps.

There may be something terrific out there that I don't know about, though.  I'd truly love to get a steer to a great book about the Imperial Russian Navy.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 19, 2021, 08:17:33 PM
Thank you
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 20, 2021, 01:11:09 AM
I love Kaigun. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 20, 2021, 06:05:57 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 30, 2021, 02:46:57 AM

But I don't generally like the idea of reading historic fiction, like novels about ancient Rome or such. :unsure:
The First Man in Rome series is entertaining historical fiction.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on May 20, 2021, 06:37:36 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 19, 2021, 08:06:56 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 19, 2021, 07:08:21 PM
Grumbler your a naval guy right?


Any recommendations for naval actions of WW1 and Russia Japan War? Just Glantzy type books if possible.

Probably the best analytical work on WW1 naval action is The Rules of the Game https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B6TZGLM/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B6TZGLM/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1) which, though it deals directly only with the RN, tells a pretty universal tale of the links between the Victorian Era's focus on social roles, and the influence of that focus on naval operations.  It's not Glantz-like in its technical detail, though.

I wholeheartedly second this recommendation.

I must look at getting Kaigun myself. thanks for the rec. Grumbler.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 20, 2021, 09:15:11 AM
I haven't read a book in quite a while.  When ever I do I get nervous and have to stop. :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 20, 2021, 09:16:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 20, 2021, 09:15:11 AM
I haven't read a book in quite a while.  When ever I do I get nervous and have to stop. :(

Have you tried reading legal books?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on May 20, 2021, 08:29:12 PM
Couple of weeks ago whilst reading an archaeology book I came across a word I'd not seem before, palimpsest.  :blush:

I mention this because today I came across it for now the 2nd time in my life, on this occasion in another archaeology book.

Maybe the word is like London buses?  :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on May 21, 2021, 03:28:12 AM
Quote from: mongers on May 20, 2021, 08:29:12 PM
Couple of weeks ago whilst reading an archaeology book I came across a word I'd not seem before, palimpsest.  :blush:

I mention this because today I came across it for now the 2nd time in my life, on this occasion in another archaeology book.

Maybe the word is like London buses?  :bowler:

The top deck isn't typically built onto an older bus, though  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2021, 08:00:42 AM
Reading Nicholas Stargardt's The German War, about how German society and people experienced and were affected by WW2, from soldiers to civilians, using many war time letters and diaries.

Turns out the Nazis had to deal with NIMBYism, too:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1kadruX0AEIwPk?format=jpg&name=small)

The passage below about Thuringia is interesting. Today it's home to the most radical right wing of the AfD.

Overall a good book so far, though some German words don't seem to translate well into English, e.g. Volksgemeinschaft into National Community. In German, Volk is closer to the people and more associated to the actual people of the country (See also the "Wir sind das Volk" (we are the people) and "Wir sind ein Volk" (we are one people) chants of GDR protesters in 1989), whereas nation is more abstract and - at least in my perception - far less emotionally charged. Though I also see how "people's community" feels clumsier.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 21, 2021, 08:08:21 AM
Seems like the book should leave those terms untranslated and explain them instead. I much prefer that way of dealing with it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2021, 08:12:05 AM
I agree, though I can tolerate it in this case as I know the German words. And I understand that for English readers it will be easier to parse Reich Security Main Office than Reichssicherheitshauptamt. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 21, 2021, 08:22:25 AM
Maybe in brackets?

I agree with explaining any nuance in the original meaning of a word, but if you don't know a language I think it's quite difficult to remember untranslated names of institutions - I have the same issue if there's too many acronyms :blush: If it's translated, possibly with brackets, you are more likely to have the gist of what the Reich Security Main Office does even though it's not been mentioned for 150 pages.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 21, 2021, 08:26:39 AM
I often read books on for instance Japanese history that are full of untranslated (but explained) terms. Translated terms would feel like a wall between me and the subject matter.

NB obviosuly in those cases where there is a good term in English there is no need to leave it untranslated.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2021, 08:28:56 AM
Agreed. But there's also other words difficult to relay. E.g. the armed female soldiers of the Red Army were often referred to as "Flintenweiber." The translation"gun-women" is technically correct, but it doesn't capture that Flinte as a slang term for a long gun, and Weib is a derogatory term for women.

I'd be curious to see the German translation of this book, but the main question there would be if they would use the original materials for the quotes from letters, speeches, etc., or if they'd translate the English translations back into German (as I've seen before).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 21, 2021, 10:05:12 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 21, 2021, 08:26:39 AM
I often read books on for instance Japanese history that are full of untranslated (but explained) terms. Translated terms would feel like a wall between me and the subject matter.

NB obviosuly in those cases where there is a good term in English there is no need to leave it untranslated.


This bugs the hell out of me.  I was reading a book on 17th century Angola and the author kept using native terms for political leaders.  The terms are entirely opaque to me and I kept forgetting which one was which.  One of the terms was for a person who leads a village.  Why not use an English word like "Chieftain", "Baron", "Big Man", or just "Village Leader"?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 21, 2021, 10:07:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2021, 10:05:12 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 21, 2021, 08:26:39 AM
I often read books on for instance Japanese history that are full of untranslated (but explained) terms. Translated terms would feel like a wall between me and the subject matter.

NB obviosuly in those cases where there is a good term in English there is no need to leave it untranslated.


This bugs the hell out of me.  I was reading a book on 17th century Angola and the author kept using native terms for political leaders.  The terms are entirely opaque to me and I kept forgetting which one was which.  One of the terms was for a person who leads a village.  Why not use an English word like "Chieftain", "Baron", "Big Man", or just "Village Leader"?

Perhaps the terms they were using had different meanings from the words you have suggested.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 21, 2021, 10:43:41 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2021, 10:05:12 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 21, 2021, 08:26:39 AM
I often read books on for instance Japanese history that are full of untranslated (but explained) terms. Translated terms would feel like a wall between me and the subject matter.

NB obviosuly in those cases where there is a good term in English there is no need to leave it untranslated.


This bugs the hell out of me.  I was reading a book on 17th century Angola and the author kept using native terms for political leaders.  The terms are entirely opaque to me and I kept forgetting which one was which.  One of the terms was for a person who leads a village.  Why not use an English word like "Chieftain", "Baron", "Big Man", or just "Village Leader"?

When I was in Australia I had to take sensitivity training for dealing with aborigines.  (Everyone in the mine does, I didn't do anything offensive towards the aborigines.)  Today it's considered offensive to use the term "Tribe", instead "Skin group" is the correct term.  "Chief" or "Chieftain" is also considered offensive; though I don't remember the correct term for leader.  That might be why the author is using the native terms for political leader, rather than more commonly understood English terms.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 21, 2021, 10:57:09 AM
I've reached the Elizabethan age in the Norton Anthology of English Literature.  I've come up to Thomas Campion, whose poem "I Care Not For These Ladies," which, like many Elizabethan poems, contrasts the unspoiled rustic folk (in this case the wanton country lass Amaryllis) with the artificial people of the city or court (these ladies.)  As language changes it sometimes leads to amusing passages in these poems, for instance:

If I love Amaryllis, she gives me fruit and flowers
But if we love these ladies, we must give golden showers


So that's why R. Kelly is so successful with the ladies.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2021, 11:08:54 AM
I assume he means the tree, though. :P

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassia_fistula
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on May 21, 2021, 08:06:29 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 21, 2021, 10:07:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2021, 10:05:12 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 21, 2021, 08:26:39 AM
I often read books on for instance Japanese history that are full of untranslated (but explained) terms. Translated terms would feel like a wall between me and the subject matter.

NB obviosuly in those cases where there is a good term in English there is no need to leave it untranslated.


This bugs the hell out of me.  I was reading a book on 17th century Angola and the author kept using native terms for political leaders.  The terms are entirely opaque to me and I kept forgetting which one was which.  One of the terms was for a person who leads a village.  Why not use an English word like "Chieftain", "Baron", "Big Man", or just "Village Leader"?

Perhaps the terms they were using had different meanings from the words you have suggested.

I think "village leader" is good enough word to describe a village leader.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 22, 2021, 01:52:12 AM
Let me guess: and the inhabitants should be village people? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: 11B4V on May 25, 2021, 09:03:24 AM
And so it begins. The first arrivals. Rules of the Game and Kiagan are inbound.

(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/187784726_10225104925081472_4998822797431304933_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=pxWSK3aa7r4AX_OSKl2&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=66b78d46f9e50a606f24b3b53dae6418&oe=60D39011)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/191722655_10225105172927668_1118604986355117973_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=t3QWIHejG-cAX9JxCu1&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=0e3731ff79fb5c2e27d948e2d7ad2936&oe=60D1CF57)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/190676495_10225105174047696_4494823281127592220_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=p7qOGjRmnYcAX-kngSd&tn=ixEgPnyeeYshOLJO&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=81186848e35b26ffd9dfcd995ba39bd8&oe=60D407C7)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on May 25, 2021, 09:11:10 AM
 :)

My copy of Kaigun arrived today.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 25, 2021, 10:18:32 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 25, 2021, 09:03:24 AM
And so it begins. The first arrivals. Rules of the Game and Kiagan are inbound.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/190676495_10225105174047696_4494823281127592220_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=p7qOGjRmnYcAX-kngSd&tn=ixEgPnyeeYshOLJO&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=81186848e35b26ffd9dfcd995ba39bd8&oe=60D407C7)

Ah, "captial" ships. At least the start and end years make more sense than Paradox titles.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on May 25, 2021, 11:01:43 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on May 25, 2021, 09:11:10 AM
:)

My copy of Kaigun arrived today.

When I looked up Kaigun to link it on Amazon, I discovered that Amazon had one hardcover copy of Mark Peattie's Sunburst, his sort-of sequel to Kaigun (about 70% of it is the four chapters they had to pull from Kaigun because Kaigun was getting too large) available at list price.  That book has been out of print in hardback for years, and is pretty pricey on the used book circuit.  I have no idea why they suddenly got the one copy, but they didn't have it for long!  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on May 25, 2021, 03:26:01 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 25, 2021, 10:18:32 AM
At least the start and end years make more sense than Paradox titles.

Pre-dreadnoughts 2019-2039 sounds fascinating.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on May 25, 2021, 06:11:19 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 25, 2021, 11:01:43 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on May 25, 2021, 09:11:10 AM
:)

My copy of Kaigun arrived today.

When I looked up Kaigun to link it on Amazon, I discovered that Amazon had one hardcover copy of Mark Peattie's Sunburst, his sort-of sequel to Kaigun (about 70% of it is the four chapters they had to pull from Kaigun because Kaigun was getting too large) available at list price.  That book has been out of print in hardback for years, and is pretty pricey on the used book circuit.  I have no idea why they suddenly got the one copy, but they didn't have it for long!  :P

I'm a little bothered that I got to the second paragraph of the introduction of Kaigun and spotted a factual error (at least in the paperback edition I have.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 26, 2021, 01:56:32 PM
Looking forward to reading this - and I'm sure it'll be very much up Languish's street :lol:
QuoteCivilisations by Laurent Binet review – counterfactual hi-jinks
What if the Incas had invaded Europe? Flights of fancy reimagine a 16th century that never happened
Sam Leith
Thu 29 Apr 2021 12.00 BST

French author Laurent Binet is preoccupied with real-life events, AKA history, and how we tell it. There was the fretful meticulousness of his debut HHhH, a "nonfiction novel" about the assassination of Nazi chief Reinhard Heydrich; then The 7th Function of Language, a metafictional thriller about Roland Barthes and his fatal encounter with a laundry van.

Now, still not content just to make up some imaginary characters and have them interact, he presents something that reads more like a collection of primary sources than a conventional novel. What to call it? A historical systems novel, preoccupied with the roots of great power conflict, and the historical forces that underpin it? Or just a jeu d'esprit? It's a bit of both, and it's tremendous fun.

Each of Civilisations' four parts poses as a historical document, and the main story runs for most of a 16th century that never happened – from when a ragtag Inca expeditionary force, fleeing civil war in South America, makes landfall in Lisbon, to the years after the Battle of Lepanto (which is, spoiler alert, fought between different forces than the real one).[

The groundwork for this flight of counterfactual speculation is laid in the first two sections. First up is a spoof Norse saga, describing how Vikings not only made it to Vinlandia, the coast of North America, but as far south as what is now Panama. Erik the Red's daughter Freydis (whose party trick of beating her breast with a sword is faithfully entered into the record) befriended the local skraelings – as the Vikings called Native Americans – and, crucially, introduced them to two technologies: horses and iron. (She also set them on the painful road to herd immunity to Old World diseases.)

Accordingly, things go the worse for Christopher Columbus when he shows up. The second section consists of fragments from his comically pious journals. He annoys the locals by abducting their people ("I assured him that it was for their salvation that we had taken those people") and in due course gets his European posterior kicked. He ends his abject days as a captive court jester in what's now Cuba. After Columbus fails to return, the Spanish court loses its appetite for exploratory expeditions westwards.

But it's on Columbus's old ships that, half a generation later, Atahualpa, known to us as the last Inca emperor, sets off for Europe – as described in the main section, entitled "The Chronicles of Atahualpa". On arrival, he is no less perplexed by the shaven-headed locals, with their weird cult of the "nailed god", than Columbus was by the feathered head-dresses on the other side of the pond. Though the Incas are no strangers to human sacrifice, Atahualpa takes one look at the Inquisition burning heretics and wonders if these "Levantines" don't go a bit far. He has his doubts, too, about the "little white llamas" – sheep – that the locals let run around everywhere. He's mightily taken by the "black drink" that the monks make, though.

Through low cunning, high diplomacy and the occasional application of brute force, Atahualpa not only survives but prospers in the land that he dubs the "Fifth Quarter", playing squabbling European factions off against each other and in due course usurping the Holy Roman Emperor. Among the many nice touches here is that Atahualpa immediately sees the point of Machiavelli and takes much of the Florentine's advice to heart.

Various counterfactual shenanigans play out. Inca/European dynastic alliances are forged. Atahualpa wins hearts and minds by promulgating religious tolerance and a series of quasi-socialist land reforms that sound a great deal more appealing than what was actually on offer in Europe in the real 16th century. The Reformation happens, but not quite in the way you might expect – especially as regards the Church of England. And we meet Martin Luther, who, as the Chronicler drily remarks, "had a somewhat inflexible character, which, everyone agreed, was not improving with the passing of time". Binet has a lot of fun with existing history. We get Thomas More corresponding with Erasmus about Inca theology rather than Luther's articles, and the narrator drops little references to "the entirely misnamed Antoine the Good" or remarks, after introducing a second "The Magnanimous", that magnanimity was "a quality apparently very common among these princes".

Everything seems to be rosy, for a while. But then the bountiful supplies of gold from across the Ocean Sea dry up and a rival gang of South Americans, the Aztecs, appear – call it the Scramble for Burgundy – and make themselves disagreeable by massacring their enemies and ripping out their still-beating hearts, as Aztecs will tend to. Surface details may change, Binet seems to be reminding us, but imperial ambition is a historical constant.

The closing section nods to the novel's literary game-playing by following, in mock-heroic form, the travails of Miguel de Cervantes – who loses the use of his hand at Lepanto, as usual, but, in what I'm fairly sure is a departure from the historical course of events, ends up being Michel de Montaigne's lodger for a bit. That detail is splendidly in the spirit of this book, which you could see as a world-historical version of the parlour game where you assemble a fantasy dinner party from the past.

    Civilisations by Laurent Binet, translated by Sam Taylor, is published by Harvill Secker (£16.99). To order a copy go to guardianbookshop.com. Delivery charges may apply.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on May 26, 2021, 01:58:20 PM
I am cautious. I loved HHhH. Found the 7th Function of Language unbearable.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 26, 2021, 02:00:40 PM
:lol: I loved 7th Function of Language.

Haven't read HHhH yet, but it's on my pile.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on May 26, 2021, 02:06:03 PM
HHhH was great. So I guess I'm pre-ordering Civilisations.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 26, 2021, 02:46:07 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on May 25, 2021, 06:11:19 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 25, 2021, 11:01:43 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on May 25, 2021, 09:11:10 AM
:)

My copy of Kaigun arrived today.

When I looked up Kaigun to link it on Amazon, I discovered that Amazon had one hardcover copy of Mark Peattie's Sunburst, his sort-of sequel to Kaigun (about 70% of it is the four chapters they had to pull from Kaigun because Kaigun was getting too large) available at list price.  That book has been out of print in hardback for years, and is pretty pricey on the used book circuit.  I have no idea why they suddenly got the one copy, but they didn't have it for long!  :P

I'm a little bothered that I got to the second paragraph of the introduction of Kaigun and spotted a factual error (at least in the paperback edition I have.)

:yes: The Japanese navy will most definitely be that visually impressive again in the future.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on June 03, 2021, 09:49:30 AM
Bad news for naval history fans:  James Hornfischer, author of The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, Neptune's Inferno, and Ship of Ghosts (among other works) has passed away at age 55. https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/austin-tx/james-hornfischer-10217895 (https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/austin-tx/james-hornfischer-10217895)

I was always a bit irritated with his works because his excellent writing was marred by careless errors or an unskeptical belief in first-person accounts (when a quick bit of research would have shown them to be erroneous), but his books were always fun to read and good at putting you in the story.  I was rather surprised to discover that he was the agent for a lot of naval historians.

No word on cause of death.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on June 03, 2021, 12:52:15 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 03, 2021, 09:49:30 AM
Bad news for naval history fans:  James Hornfischer, author of The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, Neptune's Inferno, and Ship of Ghosts (among other works) has passed away at age 55. https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/austin-tx/james-hornfischer-10217895 (https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/austin-tx/james-hornfischer-10217895)

I was always a bit irritated with his works because his excellent writing was marred by careless errors or an unskeptical belief in first-person accounts (when a quick bit of research would have shown them to be erroneous), but his books were always fun to read and good at putting you in the story.  I was rather surprised to discover that he was the agent for a lot of naval historians.

No word on cause of death.

It was cancer, at least that's what I read somewhere. RIP  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on June 04, 2021, 04:22:03 AM
Talking of naval historians, anyone know how NAM Rodgers is getting on with his final book on the British Navy? I barely know my port from by starboard but thought that Command of the Ocean was fascinating.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 04, 2021, 04:24:01 AM
What does starboard taste like?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on June 04, 2021, 06:36:06 AM
Quote from: Gups on June 04, 2021, 04:22:03 AM
Talking of naval historians, anyone know how NAM Rodgers is getting on with his final book on the British Navy? I barely know my port from by starboard but thought that Command of the Ocean was fascinating.

He's the George RR Martin of naval historians. The Price of Victory is apparently done and has been a year from publication for at least eight years.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 14, 2021, 01:59:09 PM
Extraordinary piece by Adam Tooze on Vasily Grossman who I've meant to read but not got round to. Strong impetus to go for it now:
https://adamtooze.substack.com/p/chartbook-21
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on June 14, 2021, 02:24:07 PM
Life and Fate is amazing. Very long but very readable. I must get round to Stalingrad soon.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on June 14, 2021, 03:00:41 PM
I loved Life and Fate!

Made into a pretty watchable mini series, as well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on June 14, 2021, 08:30:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 14, 2021, 03:00:41 PM
I loved Life and Fate!

Made into a pretty watchable mini series, as well.

Life and Fate implies Death is Freedom.  That was such a powerful book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 15, 2021, 07:17:00 AM
That's something Tooze sort of touches on directly:
QuoteBut, if the beleaguered fortress of House 6/1 becomes a place of free debate, and critical reflection about Stalinism, about collectivization and the terror, the condition of that freedom is precisely that the garrison know full well that there is virtually no chance of their surviving. Given this fact, the law has lost its grip.

With this grim logic in mind, we realize the significance of Grossman's title. If "life and fate" share the same path, so too, do "death and freedom".

One can agree with Jameson that the affirmative politics of Life and Fate is not liberalism or individualism so much as a kind of anarchism. But this is not a naive individualism. Grossman's insistence on the freedom impulse is always cross cut with an awareness of the power of the Soviet state and its historical project.

What the books unsparingly lay out is the working out of a brutal dialectic. The war could only be fought through freedom, through the willingness of millions of ordinary men and women to abandon life. Ordinary heroism drove the Red Army, as it drove the Wehrmacht. Power needs agency. What sustains an army's offensive is death-defying attack after attack. It was strong point after strong point resisting beyond the point of reason that held the line. At its limit this action defies all authority. What threat after all, can be made against someone already fated to die. The war was thus a gigantic assertion of freedom. That freedom could be expressed everywhere. Even in a camp. In the last steps towards the gas chamber. In the decision to lash out against a German guard, but also in the decision not to bid for life by volunteering to serve as a "dentist", but rather to stay with a child in need of comfort. One can imagine that a world governed by nothing but that logic would be radically different. But Grossman does not hold out utopia. The triumph at Stalingrad was made by freedom in synthesis with power. The heroism of the Red Army soldiers and the relentless German offensives they fought off, had material conditions. Grossman's books are amongst other things a memorial to the material culture of Stalinism.

Even in his plea to Khrushchev on February 26, 1962 to permit Life and Fate to be published Grossman invoked precisely this connection: "The strength and courage of your speech give reasons to think that the norms of our democracy will grow just as production norms of steel, coal, and electricity grew after the days of economic collapse accompanying the Civil War. After all, the essence of a new society is even more [manifest] in the growth of democracy and freedom than in industrial development and economic consumption. I believe a new society is unthinkable without continuous growth of freedom and of democracy."

But Grossman was denied his wish. The regime that Grossman understood as having been carried to victory by freedom was determined to impose discipline at any cost. The Partisan spirit could not be tolerated behind one's own lines. And in that battle for control, death, ultimately, was the state's ally. If refusing to cling to life was the precondition of true freedom, death itself was freedom's ultimate negation. In death we become matter to be reworked. Literally or metaphorically.

At Stalingrad, the rebellious commune in House 6/1 was erased by a devastating German bombardment. That enables it to be subsumed into the official Soviet narrative as a heroic outpost. Perversely, Krymov, the Commissar who was sent to discipline the outpost is thrown onto the wrong side of power. He finds himself in the Lubyanka under interrogation.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 15, 2021, 12:38:07 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 14, 2021, 08:30:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 14, 2021, 03:00:41 PM
I loved Life and Fate!

Made into a pretty watchable mini series, as well.

Life and Fate implies Death is Freedom.  That was such a powerful book.

Dead people do have nothing left to lose.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 16, 2021, 09:04:15 PM
Anyone read this? Sounds brutally hard to read to me. Is it realistic that 80 years of a mad maxian logan run future populated only by children and teens would have the English language go absolutely off the rails? Of course, do I want to read 600 pages narrated like that? No.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jun/25/country-ice-cream-star-sandra-newman-review-sf-epic
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on June 17, 2021, 01:16:22 AM
I'm not sure what would be appealing about a book about black children who have terrible lives/sometimes enslaved by white people and written in the author's take on AAVE.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on June 17, 2021, 01:19:45 AM
Weird that the article doesn't reference A Clockwork Orange, another book set in a dystopian future and told through invented futuristic youth vernacular.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on June 22, 2021, 10:56:55 AM
Got a shipment from Verlag Militaria.

The German Colonial Troops from 1889 to 1918: History - Uniforms - Equipment

The French Army in the First World War - 1914 to 1918: Uniforms - Equipment - Armament

Gas Warfare in the First World War: Gas Masks and Gas Defence Equipment of the Armies of the German Empire, Austria-Hungary and Italy


They're all big fat books, 600+ pages with lots of photos (all in color except of course period B/W pics). The photos form the main content, but the Colonial book also includes some history (since it's not as well known to the general public).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 06, 2021, 02:50:27 PM
Finished God's Chinese Son: The Taiping Heavenly Kingdom of Hong Xiuquan. I've known about the Taiping rebellion and that the leader thought himself the younger brother of Christ since I was a kid, but I haven't read any details about it until now. A very readable book. It deals mostly with the development of Hong's religious views and the "inner world" (if you will) of the Taiping leaders, and while it does describe the military campaigns it doesn't get into great detail and several of them are just mentioned briefly. Hong's story is a fascinating one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on July 06, 2021, 02:53:13 PM
Yeah - it's an incredible story. And the scale is probably one of the biggest wars in the 19th century but barely known outside of China.

And just fascinating in the context of the cross-cultural aspects. It's extraordinary.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 12, 2021, 07:18:38 PM
Oex or anyone else who has read them:

Any reviews/thoughts on Robert Parkinson's books on the American Revolution?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on July 13, 2021, 08:04:31 AM
Disclaimer: Rob is a friend, so you are asking a more complex question than you know  :lol:

The Common Cause is driven by the idea that, while complex political ideas certainly animated the debate for a bunch of curmudgeon people interested in politics, the Revolution itself needed to coalesce around much "baser" impulses, that the creation of a "common cause" required simplistic narratives which may have concerned the British, but more often than not, rather stoked the fears of Indigenous people and slave insurrection. So, he shows how "low-level" communication - i.e., the bulk of the info beyond the big shiny declarations - was quite often about Indigenous violence, or the threat thereof, and that much of that communication was pushed by some of the Revolution's main actors.

The book has received wide acclaim and won prizes. It's also really, really long, and few people have the patience (or the need) to wade through all of the pages. I think at some level Parkinson knew the book would be contentious among certain influential historians of the Revolution (*cough* Gordon Wood) and would go against certain still-lingering interpretations of the Revolution, so felt he needed to just lay the whole thing there, and make the argument ironclad. That being said, between the moment when he began writing, and the moment the book was published, the context had shifted. But it has now shifted again... and the centrality of race as a motivator *for* the revolution is back in he news...

This explains why his 13 Clocks is more or less the same argument repackaged in much shorter form, in order to gain readers (and gain classroom adoption) that were discouraged by the length. If you are curious about the argument, I'd pick up 13 Clocks (though I myself haven't had a chance to read it yet - will do so in the fall). 

Now, my sense of it is a bit warped. I came to the historiography of the American Revolution after having read, and having thoughts about revolutionary violence, emrge from the French Revolution, the heritage of which has always been much more contested... I have always felt that the dominant readings of the Revolution were quite naive (with some notable exceptions), making it into a much more consensual affair, usually crushed under the weight of the Founding Fathers, and, while it has provided us with great histories in the "history of ideas" genre (and debates), it hasn't looked a lot at the inherent social tensions, the process of politicization, that always accompanies revolutionary violence. This is the historiographic tradition that Parkinson is attacking. 

In a weird way, I think Parkinson's argument is at times more simple (and sometimes a bit blunter) than the source material could have allowed, and I would personally have preferred more sociology of communication deployed to sustain or inform his demonstration. I think the gist of the argument is right, but he deploys it at a level where the previous historiography operated (Patriots, Founding Fathers, etc.).
But I think the genre of writing about the American Revolution, because of the nature of the beast, often seems to require either big arguments (or some minuscule focus). That being said, this approach has the merit of making us wonder whether the centrality of slave insurrection or indigenous violence was simply erased from previous narratives because it wasn't revolutionary / inspirational enough, or just considered as business as usual.

So yes, you should definitely buy it. Buy one copy for a friend. Maybe a few dozens more for the family. They make great Christmas gifts and wonderful door stoppers.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 08:48:15 AM
Is Parkinson able to show that news creating fear of a slave revolt was more prevalent in ant-British than pro-British newspapers?  The big obstacle I see to my accepting his hypothesis in toto is that the areas with the most to fear from slave revolts seemed to be the areas that most supported the British.

I think that the case for fear of native attacks is much more easily made, if more noted by the standard accounts.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 13, 2021, 08:58:24 AM
This reminds me that I should probably finish Lepore's These Truths at some point. :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on July 13, 2021, 10:38:20 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 08:48:15 AM
Is Parkinson able to show that news creating fear of a slave revolt was more prevalent in ant-British than pro-British newspapers?  The big obstacle I see to my accepting his hypothesis in toto is that the areas with the most to fear from slave revolts seemed to be the areas that most supported the British.

I think that the case for fear of native attacks is much more easily made, if more noted by the standard accounts.
Did that shift with the British offer of freedom to slaves who signed up to fight for the British?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on July 13, 2021, 11:01:33 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 08:48:15 AM
Is Parkinson able to show that news creating fear of a slave revolt was more prevalent in ant-British than pro-British newspapers?  The big obstacle I see to my accepting his hypothesis in toto is that the areas with the most to fear from slave revolts seemed to be the areas that most supported the British.

I think that the case for fear of native attacks is much more easily made, if more noted by the standard accounts.

I am obviously not doing justice to Rob's argument in a few lines, while he spends about 700 pages developping the matter.

One thing to note: it's extremely difficult to make causal arguments when discussing ideas, the press, and reception of the article. I don't think Parkinson's book makes a strong causal argument, i.e., he's not saying, by virtue of the prevalence of racial motifs in the minds of a lot of northern patriots, it moves anything one way or another. What it does show is precisely how prevalent the motifs of interracial violence was in the minds of these revolutionary actors, at least enought to lead them to feed regular articles about it to revolutionary presses, to censor news that could contradict that narrative, including downplaying the achievements of black people during the war. Indeed, there are a quite a few interesting passages about the treatment of Hessians and Loyalists, who did unleash violence, but were carefully reintegrated in the patriot's narratives.

Ultimately, I think the book serves as a reflexion on the process by which something which was indeed prevalent in the minds of central actors, becomes almost entirely erased from the canonical, celebratory literature. This is something that has a long legacy, and explains why his editor pushed for a second, shorter version.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on July 13, 2021, 11:30:14 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 13, 2021, 10:38:20 AM
Did that shift with the British offer of freedom to slaves who signed up to fight for the British?

Actually, Dunmore's proclamation came very early, in 1775 - which indeed shook planters, pushing a lot of them into the arms of the Rebels, for fear that the Brits would emancipate their slaves (plus increasingly noisy abolitionists in England). During the rest of the war, the Brits were a lot more ambivalent, but Dunmore's proclamation remained a constant refrain for patriot slavers. British officers only armed a few black troops, because to do more would have been to jeopardize the support they were able to secure; they couldn't deploy them too much, because Patriot troops in the South were known to massacre black troops.

There is, I think, a misconception that, because the British secured militarily the South, these were colonies that supported them. Loyalists and Rebels were a lot more spread out, with important pockets of Loyalists in West Virginia, West Pennsylvania, Connecticut. New York was also a Tory stronghold, and yet it largely succeeded in shedding that reputation (despite somehow embracing "Empire State"...). The South was easier to initially hold, but harder to campaign in for the Brits, so they held the cities and relied on naval support.   
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 11:39:56 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 13, 2021, 10:38:20 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 08:48:15 AM
Is Parkinson able to show that news creating fear of a slave revolt was more prevalent in ant-British than pro-British newspapers?  The big obstacle I see to my accepting his hypothesis in toto is that the areas with the most to fear from slave revolts seemed to be the areas that most supported the British.

I think that the case for fear of native attacks is much more easily made, if more noted by the standard accounts.
Did that shift with the British offer of freedom to slaves who signed up to fight for the British?

The original offer was by the Royal Governor of Virginia, Lord Dunmore.  It had little effect as Dunmore had fled the colony and had no way of promulgating it widely.  Clinton's 1779 order freeing all slave held by Revolutionaries had more effect, but I don't know what effect it had on the Loyalists.  It did come well before the high tide of the British war effort in the South, however, so its impact couldn't have been disastrous for the Loyalists.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 13, 2021, 11:01:33 AM
I am obviously not doing justice to Rob's argument in a few lines, while he spends about 700 pages developping the matter.

One thing to note: it's extremely difficult to make causal arguments when discussing ideas, the press, and reception of the article. I don't think Parkinson's book makes a strong causal argument, i.e., he's not saying, by virtue of the prevalence of racial motifs in the minds of a lot of northern patriots, it moves anything one way or another. What it does show is precisely how prevalent the motifs of interracial violence was in the minds of these revolutionary actors, at least enought to lead them to feed regular articles about it to revolutionary presses, to censor news that could contradict that narrative, including downplaying the achievements of black people during the war. Indeed, there are a quite a few interesting passages about the treatment of Hessians and Loyalists, who did unleash violence, but were carefully reintegrated in the patriot's narratives.

Ultimately, I think the book serves as a reflexion on the process by which something which was indeed prevalent in the minds of central actors, becomes almost entirely erased from the canonical, celebratory literature. This is something that has a long legacy, and explains why his editor pushed for a second, shorter version.

I hope to see the shorter work soon.  750+ pages is more than I can spare time for.

Parkinson's main idea seems almost like a "duh" argument given that the prosperity of most British colonies was anchored in racism, but you are correct that the celebratory story ignores that aspect of the founding of the US, preferring to focus all of the attention paid to blacks on Crispus Attucks.  It's very much the story of systemic racism writ small.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on July 13, 2021, 11:52:00 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 11:39:56 AMThe original offer was by the Royal Governor of Virginia, Lord Dunmore.  It had little effect as Dunmore had fled the colony and had no way of promulgating it widely.

On the contrary. It had profound effect. Dunmore hadn't fled the colony. He simply had fled Williamsburg, and had established his HQ in Yorktown - not very far. It didn't have much of the *intended* effect - few, albeit some, enslaved people answered the call (many of their descendents now live in Nova Scotia), but it sure incensed the slavers in the South and led them to support independence. It was used as a anti-british propaganda for most of the war - at least until the Philipsburg proclamation, which seemed to realize the southern patriot's worst fears. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 01:32:32 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 13, 2021, 11:52:00 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 11:39:56 AMThe original offer was by the Royal Governor of Virginia, Lord Dunmore.  It had little effect as Dunmore had fled the colony and had no way of promulgating it widely.

On the contrary. It had profound effect. Dunmore hadn't fled the colony. He simply had fled Williamsburg, and had established his HQ in Yorktown - not very far. It didn't have much of the *intended* effect - few, albeit some, enslaved people answered the call (many of their descendents now live in Nova Scotia), but it sure incensed the slavers in the South and led them to support independence. It was used as a anti-british propaganda for most of the war - at least until the Philipsburg proclamation, which seemed to realize the southern patriot's worst fears.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about whether Dunmore's proclamation had the effect of causing the slaveowners to support independence (your argument), or whether it had little impact and it was the propaganda about it that caused the slaveowners to support independence (my argument).

And Dunmore did flee the colony, taking refuge on HMS Fowey.  He later returned, left, and returned, before leaving for the UK when the US declared independence.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on July 13, 2021, 02:02:31 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 01:32:32 PMI guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about whether Dunmore's proclamation had the effect of causing the slaveowners to support independence (your argument), or whether it had little impact and it was the propaganda about it that caused the slaveowners to support independence (my argument).

My argument is simply that Dunmore's proclamation had a profound impact, by signalling very clearly that Dunmore was ready to arm former slave, and emancipate them, if they were willing to aid him in seizing back Williamsburg. It was published immediately by Virginia and Maryland newspapers, and reprinted very quickly elsewhere. This crushed any hope of reasoning with the Patriots who had seized government in Williamsburg, many of whom were in fact quite anxious about the future, and for whom support in Virginia was far from consensual. It clearly marked a turning point in deciding the "sides" in the early moment of the Revolutionary war.

I recommend having a look at Woody Holton's Forced Founders.

QuoteAnd Dunmore did flee the colony, taking refuge on HMS Fowey.

Yes, the HMS Fowey, anchored in Yorktown. From which he would remove to Norfolk, VA and from which he would direct operations in Virginia throughout 1775. Including after his proclamation, in November 1775. He returned to Britain in 1776.   
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 14, 2021, 01:29:28 AM
Thanks for the detailed response, I'll pick up 13 clocks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 14, 2021, 02:05:45 AM
Is there a good Franz Joseph biography around?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 14, 2021, 03:09:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2021, 01:16:22 AM
I'm not sure what would be appealing about a book about black children who have terrible lives/sometimes enslaved by white people and written in the author's take on AAVE.

I missed the part where they mention race.  :huh:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on July 14, 2021, 03:12:38 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 14, 2021, 03:09:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2021, 01:16:22 AM
I'm not sure what would be appealing about a book about black children who have terrible lives/sometimes enslaved by white people and written in the author's take on AAVE.

I missed the part where they mention race.  :huh:

I didn't decide to just read that review uncritically, but rather consulted other sources.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on July 15, 2021, 06:59:57 AM
2021 Wolfson History Prize announced - winner is Black Spartacus, a biography of Toussaint Louverture (which sounds fascinating).

The short list has a few I'm interested in :hmm: List and link with summaries:
https://www.wolfsonhistoryprize.org.uk/past-winners/2021-winners/
Quote'Survivors:
Children's Lives after the Holocaust'
Rebecca Clifford

'Black Spartacus:
The Epic Life of Toussaint Louverture'
Sudhir Hazareesingh

'Ravenna:
Capital of Empire, Crucible of Europe'
Judith Herrin

'Double Lives:
A History of Working Motherhood'
Helen McCarthy

'Burning the Books:
A History of Knowledge Under Attack'
Richard Ovenden

'Atlantic Wars:
From the Fifteenth Century to the Age of Revolution'
Geoffrey Plank
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 16, 2021, 01:02:28 PM
For my birthday my wife got me a 100 years 100 buildings type book that lists one architecturally significant building per year from 1916-2015.  (The book does try to portray the great villains of modern architecture, Ludwig Mies van der Rohe (glass box building on a plaza in the city) and Le Corbusier (tower in the park "Urban renewal) as not personally responsible for the damage they did, but merely followed by incompetent imitators.  So take the following for what it's worth.)  To my surprise there were two buildings in the Detroit area,  the Cranbrook Art Museum (1942):

(https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/max_1200/07153547753405.5883e1a06f995.jpg)

(The sculpture is Orpheus escaping Hades; except in this version the sculptor didn't include Orpheus (he had in a previous version) so it's just the souls escaping Hades.  The figure with his hands stretched above his head on the left is Beethoven, who is straining to hear the music.  The other figures are simply generic.  It's either fitting or ironic given the then exhibition; since the figures are listening, but there is, in fact, no one to hear.)

And the Dymaxion house, which is today at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI (https://www.thehenryford.org/visit/henry-ford-museum/exhibits/dymaxion-house/):

(https://live.staticflickr.com/1873/42729881710_145895d6d5_b.jpg)

These were designed by R. Buckminster Fuller to be a cheap, mass produced house.  The airline industry was interested in retooling to build the houses after the Second World War since they used the same materials used to make bombers (and since there was an anticipated housing demand from returning GIs.)  The houses are strong, light (3000 lbs or 1400 Kgs), could be easily installed since everything rested on a single pole and space efficient.  Fuller designed a water collection system on the roof, vents on the floor for passive cooling and a self composting septic system.  He also wrote (and sang) a jingle for them Roam Home to a Dome (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kkZUpbNGwQ)  (warning, R. Buckminster Fuller was not a professional singer.) 

Only one of these was ever built; Bucky, being Bucky, kept changing the design and wouldn't release them to the public until he felt it was ready.  The Wichita House was a modified prototype built by one of his backers.  It stood in Wichita for over 40 years before being moved to the Henry Ford Museum in 1992.  There's some more information about it here at the Buckminster Fuller Institute (https://www.bfi.org/about-fuller/big-ideas/dymaxion-world/dymaxion-house); ("The incumbent herd of insolent, astoundingly filthy raccoons" is currently my favorite phrase.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 16, 2021, 01:11:56 PM
Are those Carl Milles statues?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 16, 2021, 01:15:03 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 16, 2021, 01:11:56 PM
Are those Carl Milles statues?

Good eye :thumbsup:

Yes, Milles was an artist in residence at Cranbrook from 1931-1951.  Cranbrook has the largest collection of Milles sculptures outside of Sweden.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 16, 2021, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 16, 2021, 01:15:03 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 16, 2021, 01:11:56 PM
Are those Carl Milles statues?

Good eye :thumbsup:

Yes, Milles was an artist in residence at Cranbrook from 1931-1951.  Cranbrook has the largest collection of Milles sculptures outside of Sweden.

You should visit his place in Stockholm. It's nice. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 16, 2021, 01:17:56 PM
Resisted some impulse buys today. C.H. Beck is one of (the?) biggest German publisher of history books. On a number of topics they have quite exhaustive tomes. E.g. I have their book on the 19th century which is very good, but also comes at well over 1500 tightly printed pages. Was at the book store today and they had similar volumes about the migrations period from 4th to 9th century, one about Russian history from Middle Ages to the eve of revolution, another about the Renaissance ....

Really tempted, but I still have so many books to read. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 16, 2021, 01:46:03 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 16, 2021, 01:02:28 PM
And the Dymaxion house, which is today at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI (https://www.thehenryford.org/visit/henry-ford-museum/exhibits/dymaxion-house/):

I've been to the Ford; I remember the house.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on July 16, 2021, 02:44:14 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 16, 2021, 01:46:03 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 16, 2021, 01:02:28 PM
And the Dymaxion house, which is today at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI (https://www.thehenryford.org/visit/henry-ford-museum/exhibits/dymaxion-house/):

I've been to the Ford; I remember the house.

Given all the benefits listed on the website, I'm kinda surprised they were never built. I do wonder what the drawbacks were.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 06, 2021, 01:54:14 PM
I finished Judith Herrin's Ravenna: Capital of Empire, Crucible of Europe which covers the period between Ravenna being made capital of the Roman Empire in the West and Charlemagne hauling away their monuments to build the Cathedral at Aachen.  It reminded me of Lord Norwich's books in that she's able to make a quite readable text out of an obscure era.  Has anyone read her Byzantium (or anything else by her); I'm curious if the rest of her works are worth pursuing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on August 08, 2021, 08:12:48 PM
Just finished a book "Girl with a Sniper Rifle". Female Russian sniper in WW2.  I've wanted to read something about female Russian snipers, having seen mention of them often enough in WW2 books. Good book, the woman told of her life before, during and after the war. Aside from the war experiences it was interesting to see the daily life before the war.

I've read mostly books of US service members, but I try to read books from service members of various nations in WW2. Get a feel for what it was like all around. I find myself feeling for all of them and what they went through.

I have books to read on US women fliers in WW2, and a Russian infantryman. Just finished a book Spearhead about a US tanker and his unit. They were among the first (and few) to receive Pershing tanks in the last few months of the war. Much needed to replace the Shermans! But so late in the war and very limited numbers.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 17, 2021, 10:35:37 AM
Anyone read Verdun, by Paul Jankowski? Is it any good?

I recently got it delivered, and I opened it. Before I even got to the first page of text I came across a map, simply called "The Western Front in 1916". On the map the borders of France include Alsace and Lorraine, which is shaded and has the text "ALSACE and LORRAINE, Occupied since the Treaty of Frankfurt (10 May 1871)". LOLWUT? Is Jankowski a revisionist kook? Should I bother with the book at all?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 17, 2021, 10:52:25 AM
 :lol: That is pretty wild. I'm not sure it should affect the read much, but it gives up his biases early on at least.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 17, 2021, 10:54:08 AM
I get the image of a wild-eyed Bonapartist who doesn't recognize the Third Republic and therefore not Frankfurt.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 17, 2021, 10:56:22 AM
Well, who does recognize the Third Republic?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 17, 2021, 04:27:40 PM
Dammit, I've looked around a bit and I can't seem to find a modern book on Verdun in English that doesn't have red flags. I've read The Price of Glory (and it's quite old). Any tips are welcome.

I don't think I will bother with Jankowski's book, since I can't trust him regarding even basic facts.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 17, 2021, 04:29:14 PM
Any Languish Teuton know of a good German book on Verdun?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on August 18, 2021, 01:09:00 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 17, 2021, 04:29:14 PM
Any Languish Teuton know of a good German book on Verdun?

We were there on the camping trip a few years back and in every place that I could I looked for books from the French or German, or any really, perspective, I ended up with nothing. But I do believe we had a discussion in the thread on good books on Verdun, se if you can find something there.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on August 18, 2021, 04:41:26 PM
Yeah, the only one I could think of then was indeed Jankowski's Verdun. He's a historian of political culture and corruption. I like his work there. But it seems to be a rule in American academia that you end your career writing a book on military topics or Founding Fathers, even if you're not a specialist of the topic, or the methods. One has to sell books to pay for the cabin in the country, I guess.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 18, 2021, 04:49:07 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 18, 2021, 04:41:26 PM
Yeah, the only one I could think of then was indeed Jankowski's Verdun. He's a historian of political culture and corruption. I like his work there. But it seems to be a rule in American academia that you end your career writing a book on military topics or Founding Fathers, even if you're not a specialist of the topic, or the methods. One has to sell books to pay for the cabin in the country, I guess.

If you run into him please make him revise the map. Just add "...according to French opinion" or something if he doesn't want to correct the border. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 26, 2021, 10:53:34 AM
I finished "The Long-Haired Kings and other Studies in Frankish History" by JM Wallace-Hadrill.  According to Nennius, nearly every King of the Heptarchy claimed to be a descendant of Wotan (and the current royal family still has him as the founder of the dynasty on their family tree); the Mergovians one-upped them by claiming to be descendants of the Quinotaur.  No one is quite sure what a Quinotaur is; it's supposed to be a descendant of Neptune so there's some speculation that it might have been a sea-monster.  On the other hand Latin had become a scholarly language at that point, and some scholarship of the period was so poor that there's some speculation that it's a misspelling of "Minotaur."

The book presents a fascinating look at the world of the Franks; including the ins and outs of blood feuds.  Unfortunately the book is something of a slog, since it assumes a much greater fluency in Latin than I possess.   Thank goodness (and some insanely dedicated Latinists) for online dictionaries.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on August 26, 2021, 11:21:28 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 26, 2021, 10:53:34 AM
I finished "The Long-Haired Kings and other Studies in Frankish History" by JM Wallace-Hadrill.  According to Nennius, nearly every King of the Heptarchy claimed to be a descendant of Wotan (and the current royal family still has him as the founder of the dynasty on their family tree); the Mergovians one-upped them by claiming to be descendants of the Quinotaur.  No one is quite sure what a Quinotaur is; it's supposed to be a descendant of Neptune so there's some speculation that it might have been a sea-monster.  On the other hand Latin had become a scholarly language at that point, and some scholarship of the period was so poor that there's some speculation that it's a misspelling of "Minotaur."

The book presents a fascinating look at the world of the Franks; including the ins and outs of blood feuds.  Unfortunately the book is something of a slog, since it assumes a much greater fluency in Latin than I possess.   Thank goodness (and some insanely dedicated Latinists) for online dictionaries.

I got a good laugh once, in a museum book shop in England.

I was looking at some posters they had for sale. One featured a genealogical tree for the current royal family. Right at the base of this was "Wotan".

The same poster proudly proclaimed the English monarch as the head of the Church of England. How that comports with proudly announcing one's descent from a pagan god was not explained!

As an aside: descent from a god is a pretty common feature of the "chieftainship" stage of social evolution, where tribes are in the process of becoming states. Of course many states retain this aspect. One theory I read is that this type of claim is intended to justify a permanent social stratification that is not based on merit (one group gets to be aristocrats because they can claim divine ancestry, while others cannot).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 26, 2021, 11:57:34 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 26, 2021, 11:21:28 AM
I got a good laugh once, in a museum book shop in England.

I was looking at some posters they had for sale. One featured a genealogical tree for the current royal family. Right at the base of this was "Wotan".

The same poster proudly proclaimed the English monarch as the head of the Church of England. How that comports with proudly announcing one's descent from a pagan god was not explained!
The CofE: Catholic and Reformed and Pagan.

Edit: Actually that does help make more sense of Worcester's asparagus blessing service on St George's Day:
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/C8D2/production/_95801415_a061c48e-a8b9-499a-b2c1-7123aa4a656d.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 26, 2021, 04:02:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 26, 2021, 11:21:28 AM
As an aside: descent from a god is a pretty common feature of the "chieftainship" stage of social evolution, where tribes are in the process of becoming states. Of course many states retain this aspect. One theory I read is that this type of claim is intended to justify a permanent social stratification that is not based on merit (one group gets to be aristocrats because they can claim divine ancestry, while others cannot).

In antiquity and early middle ages it was common to claim ancestry from the Trojans.  For example, the Romans claimed (through Romulus) descent from Aeneas and Mars; the Franks claimed descent from Hector and a sea monster.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 26, 2021, 05:18:24 PM
Wasn't there a thread on EUOT? "Odin was a real man"?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 26, 2021, 05:27:33 PM
Real Men are Odin.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 27, 2021, 11:45:59 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 26, 2021, 11:21:28 AM
As an aside: descent from a god is a pretty common feature of the "chieftainship" stage of social evolution, where tribes are in the process of becoming states. Of course many states retain this aspect. One theory I read is that this type of claim is intended to justify a permanent social stratification that is not based on merit (one group gets to be aristocrats because they can claim divine ancestry, while others cannot).

I once heard a series of lectures on Greek mythology where the professor joked that Zeus was the number one cause of teenage pregnancy in the ancient world.

The primary sources for the Frankish kingdom are poor; so it's not really clear when the Quinotaur story originated.  Gregory of Tours writes about Meroveus, the legendary founder of the dynasty, but he doesn't mention that his father was a Quinotaur.  Fredegar, writing later, is the only source of the Quinotaur. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 27, 2021, 01:15:47 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 27, 2021, 11:45:59 AM
The primary sources for the Frankish kingdom are poor; so it's not really clear when the Quinotaur story originated.  Gregory of Tours writes about Meroveus, the legendary founder of the dynasty, but he doesn't mention that his father was a Quinotaur.  Fredegar, writing later, is the only source of the Quinotaur.

The true primary sources for just about everything in the period are poor with the occasional exception like Sidonious.  There aren't any primary sources for the origins of any of successor kingdom peoples  - Clovis died more than 25 years before Gregory was born.  The point that comes out of the origin stories for the Franks is that the true Frankish lineage was completely obscure before Clovis' father (Childeric).  Gregory postulated a Chlodio as Childeric's grandfather because that was the most prominent Frankish reference he knew from the Roman records available to him that could fit the time period.  The reality is that Childeric was a leader of a warband made good - who took advantage of unsettled times to carve out a de facto territorial domain.  There is no reason to think his lineage was especially distinguished, and "Merovech" was presumably just another warband leader, one of many of the time.  Even if there were Frankish chroniclers back then, it's doubtful they would have had much to say.  The later chronicles are just filling in the most appropriate back story they can come up with given their own fragmentary information and the reality of obscure origins, with Fredegar likely contributing a misunderstanding of a family legend.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 03, 2021, 10:31:25 AM
I finished up Jorge Luis Borges's collection of short stories "Ficciones;" some of them were kind of dumb, but most were weird and wonderful.  Next up  "Gringo Viejo" by Carlos Fuentes.  ¡Viva Ambrose Bierce!

Maybe it's a weird coincidence but many of the Latin American authors that I've read lived abroad when they were young.  Borges spent his teenage years in Switzerland; Fuentes's father was a diplomat so he lived all over; Isabela Allende father was also a diplomat, she was born in Lima.  The obvious exception is Gabriel Garcia Marquez who grew up in Aracataca, Colombia.  I've seen Aracataca, it's the sort of place where ice would indeed be viewed as the greatest miracle of the age.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on September 03, 2021, 11:36:34 AM
I wrote up an RPG adventure that involved the Library of Babel.  The villain had discovered the Library only to find it was a trap.  After going mad he escaped and went on a quest to destroy all knowledge by messing with people's memories.  Never did get to run it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 03, 2021, 03:35:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 03, 2021, 11:36:34 AM
I wrote up an RPG adventure that involved the Library of Babel.  The villain had discovered the Library only to find it was a trap.  After going mad he escaped and went on a quest to destroy all knowledge by messing with people's memories.  Never did get to run it.

What system did you design that for?

There's a guy out there who has created a digital Library of Babel. (https://libraryofbabel.info/)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on September 19, 2021, 06:20:51 PM
Recently finished an excellent and thought-ptoking book, Constance by Matthew FitzSimmons.  It's kind of a scifi murder mystery dystopia novel.  The eponymous protagonist is a musician in the near future.  Her band was just hitting its stride, having recorded its first album and departed on its first tour, when a traffic accident killed two of the four members (including her fiancé) and left her in a deep depression, which hasn't cleared by the time the book starts, some months later.

Constance does have one thing going for her:  her aunt was the one who finally engineered the breakthrough that allowed the recording of all a person's memories, and has gifted Constance a clone.  There's a major industry in preparing clones for the ultra-wealthy (the only ones who can afford the fees) and then keeping the memories of the clients up-to-date so that, if anything happens to the client, the client's clone is awakened and given the last recorded memories.  A way around death, it seems.

Constance goes in to have her recorded memories updated, as all clients do once a month, and wakes up in a hospital bed.  The bed is in the facility that stores the cloned bodies of the clients.  She's a restored clone.

She immediately faces three problems.  First, her memories are eighteen months old.  That's never supposed to happen, because memories degrade over time and no one has ever successfully recovered from an eighteen month memory gap.  The corporation running the facility doesn't want the bad publicity of a clone failing, so they don't want to let her go; they want to just terminate her and pretend all of this didn't happen.  She has to escape and avoid the corporation's agents.  That's the scifi adventure element.

Constance's second problem is that she's not a legal person to many jurisdictions and in the minds of many people.  In most US jurisdictions she isn't even considered alive, and can be killed without consequences.  There are religious fanatics organized to kill all the clones they can get their hands on.  That is the dystopian element.

Constance's third problem is that she is compelled to find out what happened to the original Constance, and what has happened to her over the last eighteen months.  That's the murder mystery.

Fitzsimmons makes all of this work and, in the process, presents us with a memorable and admirable protagonist.  My only complaint was that I figured out what was happening about 100 pages before Constance did, but, even then, there were plot twists that took me by surprise but made perfect sense in hindsight.

I thought that it was a beautiful story well-told, and provocative as hell.  If you like any of these genres, I recommend it.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on September 19, 2021, 07:50:51 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on September 03, 2021, 03:35:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 03, 2021, 11:36:34 AM
I wrote up an RPG adventure that involved the Library of Babel.  The villain had discovered the Library only to find it was a trap.  After going mad he escaped and went on a quest to destroy all knowledge by messing with people's memories.  Never did get to run it.

What system did you design that for?

There's a guy out there who has created a digital Library of Babel. (https://libraryofbabel.info/)


GURPs.  As you can guess, I also liked Ficciones.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on September 21, 2021, 12:09:19 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 19, 2021, 06:20:51 PM
Recently finished an excellent and thought-ptoking book, Constance by Matthew FitzSimmons....
That sounds amazing! I'll definitely add that to my Amazon wishlist. Appreciate the quality review.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 21, 2021, 03:54:22 AM
Today I received The Art of Lone Wolf. I've always loved the illustrator Gary Chalk, and Lone Wolf is one of the many things he's worked on. Nice. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 21, 2021, 04:03:47 AM
Nice one. Gary Chalk only did the first couple of books, though, IIRC? He did have a quite distinctive artstyle. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 21, 2021, 04:06:50 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 21, 2021, 04:03:47 AM
Nice one. Gary Chalk only did the first couple of books, though, IIRC? He did have a quite distinctive artstyle. :)

Books 1-8 according to the back cover. NB I don't think I played them all back in the day.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 21, 2021, 04:12:20 AM
They seem to have left out the covers though. Sad. I assume to keep down printing costs.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 21, 2021, 04:46:49 AM
I used to have the books up till 12, I don't think the later ones were published in Germany when I was into them. I keep telling myself I will replay them over on https://www.projectaon.org/en/Main/Home but I've yet to progress further than #4  :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josquius on September 21, 2021, 06:31:15 AM
I don't know what came of it but I remember a decade ago there was a project to translate them into a video game format.
I have a bunch at home - I think I miss a few key numbers and played them all out of order since I just picked them up where I found them.
It was very good. In lieu of a chance for table top rpgs it's the closest I got.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: ulmont on September 21, 2021, 06:49:21 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 21, 2021, 04:12:20 AM
They seem to have left out the covers though. Sad. I assume to keep down printing costs.

I think the covers were governed by different sets of rights - Project Aon has all the Gary Chalk illustrations but doesn't have the covers either, and the covers were also different country to country.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 21, 2021, 06:59:52 AM
FWIW these were the German covers. Looking up English versions, there seem to be various covers for some books.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91vI9-3vYHL.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/c2/9e/7f/c29e7f69d3fb53a4a782a6eb840e357c.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9DCcR-shm5qAd1eEz7gcRO2JC0QhYXcO17WgNBpdyKaTggXxZvyHlRKEiwMFw-jzb7ts&usqp=CAU)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQGFmWGifj_km_kb51gdzQLWwgjzBd_RqH41cYhGwDCjKNlREqs3ShmPmW1vsmI8ZTwqQ&usqp=CAU)

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 21, 2021, 07:00:32 AM
Also, one thing I loved was the continuity. "Oh yeah, that thing you picked up 4 books ago? Super useful right now!"
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 22, 2021, 04:49:21 AM
I love how the book is 2nd edition and there's still a lot of typos. And one classic "xxx - Text for the image goes here". The art is great obviously and the text doesn't matter much, but maybe they should have spent 5 more minutes on the book as a book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 22, 2021, 06:01:54 AM
I'm reading 1066: The Year of the Three Battles, by McLynn. It seems mostly okayish so far, I like that it describes the background of the different actors going back several decades. But sometimes he seems weirdly accepting of unlikely-sounding stories, while at other times he is soundly skeptical. The most bizarre thing so far though is that he calmly states that Norway had a population of 2 million at the time, and Normandy 1 million. These sound like complete fantasy, and yet he doesn't comment further on these extreme numbers or how he arrived at them. The book isn't new, it's from 1998, but that doesn't explain anything here.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on September 22, 2021, 07:00:16 AM
1M for Normandy doesn't sound so extreme. The region has extremely well preserved fiscal documents which, by their nature, if anything, under report taxable communities. In the 13th century, where we have really detailed sourced, number of fiscal units ("households") was placed at 307,000 or so, which demographers usually multiply by 5 to get a crude estimate of population. In the 12th century, that number of households was put at 136,000, which either suggest the population more than doubled, which seems unlikely, or were generally under reported. From this, estimates for 12th century place the population at somewhere around 900,000.

2M for Norway sounds crazy though. It was well below 1M in the 16th c.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on September 22, 2021, 07:27:25 AM
A quick google online suggests that the 2 million figure could be a typo for two hundred thousand.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 22, 2021, 08:24:13 AM
Yeah, the number for Normandy may be on the high side but the one for Norway is just crazy. He mentions that medieval Scandinavia during this period of mild climate was able to support "a considerable population", and that "...Norway seems to have been able to feed a population in excess of two million by the eleventh century". Hopefully it's just an extra zero that crept in during the manuscript stage.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 22, 2021, 09:26:05 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 22, 2021, 08:24:13 AM
"...Norway seems to have been able to feed a population in excess of two million by the eleventh century"

We can assume the first McDonalds must been in Scotland, logically it would have spread to Norway soon after. With over 100 billion served, I think 2 million in Norway by the 11th century is within the realm of possibility.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 22, 2021, 10:20:50 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 22, 2021, 09:26:05 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 22, 2021, 08:24:13 AM
"...Norway seems to have been able to feed a population in excess of two million by the eleventh century"

We can assume the first McDonalds must been in Scotland, logically it would have spread to Norway soon after. With over 100 billion served, I think 2 million in Norway by the 11th century is within the realm of possibility.

Yeah. I may have been hasty.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on September 22, 2021, 03:42:08 PM
Norway was hit extremely hard by the black death, I seem to remember that its population did not recover to pre-plague levels until the 19th century. But 2 million sounds far too much.

Edit:
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2013.0384 (https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2013.0384)

Interesting on the population of Norway, around 150-200k around the viking age.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on September 23, 2021, 05:28:57 AM
Is Trevor Royle' 'Civil War - The War of the Three Kingdoms' a good introduction/overview of the 'English Civil War' ?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on September 23, 2021, 06:10:28 AM
Not sure - I've not read it.

My go-to introduction/overview would be Austin Woolrych's Britain in Revolution (which takes a similar war of the three kingdoms view). I'd also recommend God's Fury, England's Fire which is focused on England but really good on the various bits of how the war was actually experienced/a bit more social history (within England) and also touches on gender, for example, while Woolrych is very much history from above.

Also I think there's been a modern (maybe post-Cold War? :hmm:) swing of pendulum towards political/religious analysis of the war. So it focuses on political decisions and religious motivations such as fear of papacy etc. Woolrych, in particular, punctures his book with "climacterics" or moments of just a few days when key decisions were taken and looks at those decisions and the actors very closely. I think it's probably worth as a refresher or contrast also having a look at one of the great 20th century histories that focus on the Marxist theory of the long-term economic forces and rise of the bourgeois as key and the sort of "English Revolution" theory/approach - from when the pendulum was back in the other direction :lol: Christopher Hill's God's Englishman is a really good read and gives a chunk of the politics/personal while still placing Cromwell in particular in an "English Revolution" context.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on September 23, 2021, 07:41:51 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 23, 2021, 06:10:28 AM
Not sure - I've not read it.

My go-to introduction/overview would be Austin Woolrych's Britain in Revolution (which takes a similar war of the three kingdoms view). I'd also recommend God's Fury, England's Fire which is focused on England but really good on the various bits of how the war was actually experienced/a bit more social history (within England) and also touches on gender, for example, while Woolrych is very much history from above.

Also I think there's been a modern (maybe post-Cold War? :hmm:) swing of pendulum towards political/religious analysis of the war. So it focuses on political decisions and religious motivations such as fear of papacy etc. Woolrych, in particular, punctures his book with "climacterics" or moments of just a few days when key decisions were taken and looks at those decisions and the actors very closely. I think it's probably worth as a refresher or contrast also having a look at one of the great 20th century histories that focus on the Marxist theory of the long-term economic forces and rise of the bourgeois as key and the sort of "English Revolution" theory/approach - from when the pendulum was back in the other direction :lol: Christopher Hill's God's Englishman is a really good read and gives a chunk of the politics/personal while still placing Cromwell in particular in an "English Revolution" context.

Thanks Shelf, I'll check those out.

I asked because I've just read it, but since it's my first book solely on the Civil Wars (  :blush: ) I was interested in Languish' opinion.
FWIW I found it a good, straight forward narrative history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 23, 2021, 07:47:00 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 21, 2021, 06:59:52 AM
FWIW these were the German covers. Looking up English versions, there seem to be various covers for some books.

Covers were redone for French versions as well, when they came back into fashion but these are the ones in my time. I was not much of a Loup Solitaire fan more Fighting Fantasy/Défis Fantastiques, Sorcery! for instance.
Two are not Lone Wolf/Loup Solitaire but that's the best picture I could find quickly.

(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/w1600/pict/254866475934_/Livre-dont-vous-%C3%AAtes-le-H%C3%A9ros-LOT-loup.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 23, 2021, 09:17:59 AM
Finished 1066. There's an 8 page appendix dealing with the important question whether or not Harold was killed by an arrow in the eye. There is no explanation given why anyone should care.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 27, 2021, 04:06:33 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on September 03, 2021, 10:31:25 AM
I finished up Jorge Luis Borges's collection of short stories "Ficciones;" some of them were kind of dumb, but most were weird and wonderful.  Next up  "Gringo Viejo" by Carlos Fuentes.  ¡Viva Ambrose Bierce!

You know how Tolstoy just keeps going on and on about Anna Karenina's shoulders?  Fuentes manages to one up Tolstoy by giving us an in depth and lengthy description of "General" Tomas Arroyo's testicles.  (It would have been really edgy had he done that about Ambrose Bierce's...)

The book is set during the Mexican Revolution and gives a speculative account of Ambrose Bierce's fate (he's the titular Old Gringo.)  Fuentes does a decent job of making Bierce sound bitter, cynical and fatalistic.  One of the last letter's Bierce wrote (written in October of 1913) contains the lines:

"Goodbye—if you hear of my being stood up against a Mexican stone wall and shot to rags, please know that I think that a pretty good way to depart this life. It beats old age, disease, or falling down the cellar stairs. To be a Gringo in Mexico—ah, that is euthanasia."

In the book he dies from getting shot in the back and then is later "Executed" by firing squad.  That's speculation, Bierce wrote his last letter in December of 1913 and was last seen in Chihuahua in January of 1913; there's no reliable account of his death.  While Bierce is the most fun part of the book, it also deals with the corruption and failure of revolutionary ideals and the rocky relationship between the United States and Mexico.

QuoteMaybe it's a weird coincidence but many of the Latin American authors that I've read lived abroad when they were young.  Borges spent his teenage years in Switzerland; Fuentes's father was a diplomat so he lived all over; Isabela Allende father was also a diplomat, she was born in Lima.  The obvious exception is Gabriel Garcia Marquez who grew up in Aracataca, Colombia.  I've seen Aracataca, it's the sort of place where ice would indeed be viewed as the greatest miracle of the age.

Next up is El Hablador (The Storyteller) by Mario Vargas Llosa; following that pattern Vargas Llosa is Peruvian; his Grandfather was a diplomat and Mario Vargas Llosa spent some of his childhood in Bolivia.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 27, 2021, 08:27:58 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 23, 2021, 09:17:59 AM
Finished 1066. There's an 8 page appendix dealing with the important question whether or not Harold was killed by an arrow in the eye. There is no explanation given why anyone should care.
I care. What the fuck is that doing in the appendix? That discussion should be in the main text!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 28, 2021, 12:18:37 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 27, 2021, 08:27:58 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 23, 2021, 09:17:59 AM
Finished 1066. There's an 8 page appendix dealing with the important question whether or not Harold was killed by an arrow in the eye. There is no explanation given why anyone should care.
I care. What the fuck is that doing in the appendix? That discussion should be in the main text!

Yeah. I may have been hasty.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 11, 2021, 10:45:07 AM
Finished The Varangians: In God's Holy Fire, by Sverrir Jakobsson. Short work on the Varangians by an Icelandic professor. Reasonable brief summary of how Rus and Varangians are mentioned in written sources by Greeks, Muslims, Franks, Scandinavians etc. About halfway through it gets into High Middle Ages stuff and Icelandic saga details, I kind of skipped some parts there, the era is nice but my focus right now is the Viking Age. It's OK for what it is, and it's not like there's been a ton of books on the subject in English since Blöndal's classic work of the mid-20th century, but the reader should be aware that it is NOT in any way a comprehensive history of Rus and Varangians. There is some buzzword diarrhea in the introduction, but not too bad.

He makes a point of calling the Byzantine Empire the Roman Empire. I mean, sure fine, but I think many readers know the relevant history. And the book is published as part of New Approaches To Byzantine History And Culture. Maybe the author and the publisher should talk.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 15, 2021, 07:26:37 AM
PSA:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBvV8z7WYAEsEpQ?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 15, 2021, 11:20:08 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 28, 2021, 12:18:37 AM
Yeah. I may have been hasty.

That's what she said.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 15, 2021, 12:01:02 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 15, 2021, 11:20:08 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 28, 2021, 12:18:37 AM
Yeah. I may have been hasty.

That's what she said.

A woman is never late, nor is she early. She comes precisely when she means to.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 18, 2021, 01:22:52 PM
I'm reading The Children of Ash and Elm: A History of the Vikings, by Neil Price. The author takes a look at the Vikings and tries to understand them unfettered by stereotypes or prejudice.

I can't really say that it's bad, it does try to bring a Scandinavian perspective to the Viking world, but it's a bit weird. He sometimes jumps to conclusions on the flimsiest of evidence, and he often doesn't explain HOW we know something he claims we know. For instance he claims that the Vikings were totally different from the rest of Europe in their beliefs in little people and similar. Really? Other peoples didn't believe in any supernatural (non-Christian) beings? We know enough about what ordinary people believed in the Dark Ages in different countries to say anything like that?

He talks about how the Vikings had slavery and describes the horrors of slavery in some detail. He does mention that the rest of the known world also practiced slavery, but doesn't say anything about any similarities or differences. And he points out that slavery's bad mkay? Wait, being a slave sucked? Like, no way!!! Whowuddathunkit.

He mentions one of the few instances where remains of people we know to be slaves have been found. The proof? They were found in the part of a burned building that was a stable. Captain Flimsy strikes again.

In the 30 page introduction (!), he finds time for a sermon about the inaccuracy of the Nazi view of the Vikings (for readers who are that kind of Viking fans). I felt like offering the author a deal: how about you don't assume that I'm a Nazi and I won't assume that you are one?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on October 18, 2021, 04:03:15 PM
'Hothouse'  by Brian Aldiss, well worth a read.

And given it's a sci-fi story even older than I am, it's aged a hell of a lot better me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 18, 2021, 08:58:42 PM
Just finished Joe Abercrombie's The Age of Madness trilogy, set in the same world as his First Law trilogy - in fact, it's "First Law, the Next Generation" and features the children of the First Law characters, for the most part.  Sand dan Glotka's daughter, King Jezel's son, The Dogman's daughter, etc.

I'm glad I read it, but must admit that there were times when I wasn't sure that I was glad I was reading it.  The characters are better-drawn than in the first trilogy, but much less likable.  In fact, there was only one genuinely likable main character in the series, and only one genuinely likable supporting character.  When you see the world through a given character's eyes, you want them to succeed.  But, looking at that character from another POV shows them to be so weak-charactered that you don't care anymore if they live or die.

I thought that Abercrombie's world-building wasn't as good this time around.  The series takes place 20 years after the first series, but in those 20 years they have gone from late medieval technology (just discovered gunpowder) to early-nineteenth-century (steam engines and the first locomotives).  But the results are anachronistic; they have steam elevators and battlefield cannons but still use crossbows as their ranged weapon.  The revolution in the book is the Russian Revolution, not the French.  The books lacked the sense of wonder (and weird believability) of the world of the first series.  In fact, I'd rate all of the independent novels above these.

Anyone else read this?  What did you think?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 19, 2021, 09:05:38 AM
Re-reading Jungle of Stone by William Carlsen - about Stephens and Catherwood's expedition to document the ancient Maya sites.

Highly recommended. The story cannot be improved on for sheer weirdness - the two men both had extraordinary talents (Stephens was a natural travel writer, Catherwood an outstanding artist - his drawings are both beautiful and very accurate, not easy to do with Mayan sculpture - I should know, as I've tried it myself!).

Stephens managed to wrangle an appointment as American counsel to the Central American Republic — basically because it was an unpopular diplomatic post (many previous holders had died of disease and his immediate predecessor, having come back from Guatemala, begged not to be posted back there - and committed suicide when he found out he was posted back there anyway). So his "mission" was ostensibly to get a commercial treaty signed ... but he arrived just as the republic was splitting apart in civil war between centralizing liberals and decentralizing conservatives (he managed to hob-nob with the leading generals on both sides, obviously at different times). So while attempting to get a treaty signed with a nation in the process of not existing, he spent his time cross-crossing the land with Catherwood during the middle of a particularly vicious civil war ... without any military escort, or indeed, knowing the local languages (at least at first). All to visit ruins that the locals considered utterly unimportant. In once case, the city of Copan, he actually bought the whole city - for $50 US. He had plans to drag the sculptures he found there back to New York, like the Brits did with the 'Elgin Marbles' of the Parthenon in Athens (fortunately, this was not at all possible).

The whole thing is startlingly odd, and they are lucky indeed to have survived it, let alone come back with such compelling evidence of the past glories of the Maya.

It isn't exactly correct to say that the pair discovered these sites - they had been known about and reported on before (indeed, it was one such report that got them interested). However, no-one of such skill as Catherwood had ever drawn the ruins, and no writer of such skill as Stephens had ever written accounts of them - previous accounts had either been fanciful or dry official reports. So the pair popularized their existence to the world in ways that made an impact.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 19, 2021, 11:08:51 AM
Friends fear he's not reading any of books he already owns and has ordered a tonne of books online again :weep: :ph34r:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 20, 2021, 04:54:34 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 18, 2021, 01:22:52 PM
I'm reading The Children of Ash and Elm: A History of the Vikings, by Neil Price. The author takes a look at the Vikings and tries to understand them unfettered by stereotypes or prejudice.

I can't really say that it's bad, it does try to bring a Scandinavian perspective to the Viking world, but it's a bit weird. He sometimes jumps to conclusions on the flimsiest of evidence, and he often doesn't explain HOW we know something he claims we know. For instance he claims that the Vikings were totally different from the rest of Europe in their beliefs in little people and similar. Really? Other peoples didn't believe in any supernatural (non-Christian) beings? We know enough about what ordinary people believed in the Dark Ages in different countries to say anything like that?

He talks about how the Vikings had slavery and describes the horrors of slavery in some detail. He does mention that the rest of the known world also practiced slavery, but doesn't say anything about any similarities or differences. And he points out that slavery's bad mkay? Wait, being a slave sucked? Like, no way!!! Whowuddathunkit.

He mentions one of the few instances where remains of people we know to be slaves have been found. The proof? They were found in the part of a burned building that was a stable. Captain Flimsy strikes again.

In the 30 page introduction (!), he finds time for a sermon about the inaccuracy of the Nazi view of the Vikings (for readers who are that kind of Viking fans). I felt like offering the author a deal: how about you don't assume that I'm a Nazi and I won't assume that you are one?

When talking about runes he mentions the many finds of runes on pieces of wood found in Bergen, Norway, with everyday inscriptions like messages or names of owners. And yeah we know that runes were used on materials like wood that normally haven't been preserved, something like the 9th century Rök runestone wasn't produced in a literary vacuum. And it's certainly possible or even likely that the Vikings used runes in the way the Bergen finds demonstrate. But he doesn't mention at all that the Bergen finds AFAIK are all from the centuries after the end of the Viking age. Seems kind of dishonest to me.

He talks about sex, gender, and the many interesting finds in graves that give some info on these things, which is great. But he doesn't at all say how uniquely Viking or not these things are, nothing about how it compares to finds in other cultures. He does this a lot. Focusing on the Vikings themselves is good, but when you don't compare them to others the Vikings are kind of left artificially hanging in a void. A void that certainly didn't exist at the time of the Vikings.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 24, 2021, 05:59:18 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 20, 2021, 04:54:34 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 18, 2021, 01:22:52 PM
I'm reading The Children of Ash and Elm: A History of the Vikings, by Neil Price. The author takes a look at the Vikings and tries to understand them unfettered by stereotypes or prejudice.

I can't really say that it's bad, it does try to bring a Scandinavian perspective to the Viking world, but it's a bit weird. He sometimes jumps to conclusions on the flimsiest of evidence, and he often doesn't explain HOW we know something he claims we know. For instance he claims that the Vikings were totally different from the rest of Europe in their beliefs in little people and similar. Really? Other peoples didn't believe in any supernatural (non-Christian) beings? We know enough about what ordinary people believed in the Dark Ages in different countries to say anything like that?

He talks about how the Vikings had slavery and describes the horrors of slavery in some detail. He does mention that the rest of the known world also practiced slavery, but doesn't say anything about any similarities or differences. And he points out that slavery's bad mkay? Wait, being a slave sucked? Like, no way!!! Whowuddathunkit.

He mentions one of the few instances where remains of people we know to be slaves have been found. The proof? They were found in the part of a burned building that was a stable. Captain Flimsy strikes again.

In the 30 page introduction (!), he finds time for a sermon about the inaccuracy of the Nazi view of the Vikings (for readers who are that kind of Viking fans). I felt like offering the author a deal: how about you don't assume that I'm a Nazi and I won't assume that you are one?

When talking about runes he mentions the many finds of runes on pieces of wood found in Bergen, Norway, with everyday inscriptions like messages or names of owners. And yeah we know that runes were used on materials like wood that normally haven't been preserved, something like the 9th century Rök runestone wasn't produced in a literary vacuum. And it's certainly possible or even likely that the Vikings used runes in the way the Bergen finds demonstrate. But he doesn't mention at all that the Bergen finds AFAIK are all from the centuries after the end of the Viking age. Seems kind of dishonest to me.

He talks about sex, gender, and the many interesting finds in graves that give some info on these things, which is great. But he doesn't at all say how uniquely Viking or not these things are, nothing about how it compares to finds in other cultures. He does this a lot. Focusing on the Vikings themselves is good, but when you don't compare them to others the Vikings are kind of left artificially hanging in a void. A void that certainly didn't exist at the time of the Vikings.

Finished it. Overall I like it, an enjoyable read. His interpretation of the evidence seems generally sound. Recommended for anyone with an interest in Vikings. For me one of the best things about reading new books on the Vikings is getting an update on exciting new archaeological finds. There were some nice ones that I wasn't aware of (even if they may have been posted in the archaeology thread when they became known), the ship burials in Estonia that closely match the saga description of the fate of pre-Viking Age Swedish king Ingvar foremost among them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on October 24, 2021, 08:31:05 AM
 :) Thanks for the overview. I had heard about the book thanks to a podcast, but put it out of my mind. Added to the list!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on October 24, 2021, 08:32:23 AM
(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780356506739-us.jpg)

My latest, based on a recommendation. No idea if it's any good or not, but it's supposed to be a Flashman-esque antihero stuck in a fantasy siege, so I'll take it.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on October 24, 2021, 02:29:08 PM
I've just heard about that one too, looking forward to the report.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 24, 2021, 03:06:20 PM
It's better to leave your lover, a lot more options.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 24, 2021, 04:26:07 PM
I don't know. He claimed there were 50 but only listed six or seven.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 24, 2021, 05:58:09 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 24, 2021, 04:26:07 PM
I don't know. He claimed there were 50 but only listed six or seven.

Paul said that she told him that "there must be fifty ways to leave your lover."  He didn't say she listed all of them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 24, 2021, 07:08:59 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 24, 2021, 04:26:07 PM
I don't know. He claimed there were 50 but only listed six or seven.

He had to cut it off for radio play. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 25, 2021, 07:33:19 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on October 24, 2021, 08:32:23 AM
(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780356506739-us.jpg)

My latest, based on a recommendation. No idea if it's any good or not, but it's supposed to be a Flashman-esque antihero stuck in a fantasy siege, so I'll take it.  :D
I definitely like that cover
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 25, 2021, 02:12:55 PM
I heard the author interviewed on the latest Talking Politics podcast - she was born in Stalinist Albania and at, I think the age of 12, lived through the liberalization of the country.  She has a lot of interesting things to say about the pros and cons of both.  Really looking forward to this.

https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/320/320869/free/9780241481851.html
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 25, 2021, 03:29:24 PM
Yeah the book sounds fascinating.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 02, 2021, 04:26:11 AM
Started on Bismarck: A Life, by Steinberg. I haven't read any details about Bismarck before, and this seems to be a decent modern biography. Some weirdness though. In the first chapter the author stans hard for Frederick the Great, but doesn't really explain why, so that is kinda left hanging in the air. A bit later he mentions "Adolph Hitler". What is up with that? From time to time you come across this even by authors who should know what Hitler was called. Is it some kind of code for something? Hmm, have I asked this before? Don't remember.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2021, 09:38:33 AM
Is your gripe the ph?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 02, 2021, 09:43:01 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2021, 09:38:33 AM
Is your gripe the ph?

Er. Yes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2021, 02:32:37 PM
It's a common transliteration.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 02, 2021, 02:48:04 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2021, 02:32:37 PM
It's a common transliteration.

Ah yes, Phranz Pherdinand was assassinated in Sarajevo.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on November 02, 2021, 03:03:14 PM
Sarah Jayvo.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 08, 2021, 07:55:29 PM
Interesting sounding new one volume book on WW2 by Richard Overy - review by Rana Mitter:
https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/october-2021/truly-global-view-of-world-war-ii/

Sounds potentially as interesting in positioning it in the global context as the last gasps of empires as Westad's history of the Cold War as not so cold.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 08, 2021, 09:03:29 PM
Based on the review it sounds like a medium-interesting essay padded to book length.

But I'll be interested to hear what you thinik.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on November 10, 2021, 09:46:17 PM
Can anyone recommend good survey works on pre-colonial Africa, pre-Muslim Persia, and pre-colonial Indochina?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Berkut on November 10, 2021, 09:48:15 PM
Just got Dan Jones new book, Powers and Thrones: A New History of the Middle Ages.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on November 11, 2021, 08:13:19 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2021, 09:48:15 PM
Just got Dan Jones new book, Powers and Thrones: A New History of the Middle Ages.

Starting reading it today too.  Meant to just read a few pages, but got hooked.  Had to force myself back to the things I needed to get done today.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 11, 2021, 09:03:08 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 10, 2021, 09:46:17 PM
Can anyone recommend good survey works on pre-colonial Africa, pre-Muslim Persia, and pre-colonial Indochina?
Haven't read it yet but I have A Fistful of Shells: West Africa From the Rise of the Slave Trade to the Age of Revolution on the shelf. I suppose it depends on how you see what' pre-colonial but I undertand it's on the early modern period so before the 19th century colonies - I think Oex also said it was good.

Haven't read or bought it but there's also The Golden Rhinoceros about the African middle ages - I saw them reviewed together.

In terms of Persia - again I haven't read or bought it - but I've read good things about Iran: A Modern History. It covers imperialist meddling and modern Iran, but I think it also basically starts in the early modern so I think it's basically 1500 (and the rise of the Safavids) up to the modern day.

Edit: No idea on Indochina - I imagine there's definitely some good options on the Khmer empire.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on November 11, 2021, 09:13:20 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 11, 2021, 08:13:19 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2021, 09:48:15 PM
Just got Dan Jones new book, Powers and Thrones: A New History of the Middle Ages.

Starting reading it today too.  Meant to just read a few pages, but got hooked.  Had to force myself back to the things I needed to get done today.

What sets it apart from the regular run of the mill history of the Middle Ages?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on November 11, 2021, 09:15:00 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 11, 2021, 09:03:08 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 10, 2021, 09:46:17 PM
Can anyone recommend good survey works on pre-colonial Africa, pre-Muslim Persia, and pre-colonial Indochina?
Haven't read it yet but I have A Fistful of Shells: West Africa From the Rise of the Slave Trade to the Age of Revolution on the shelf. I suppose it depends on how you see what' pre-colonial but I undertand it's on the early modern period so before the 19th century colonies - I think Oex also said it was good.

Haven't read or bought it but there's also The Golden Rhinoceros about the African middle ages - I saw them reviewed together.

In terms of Persia - again I haven't read or bought it - but I've read good things about Iran: A Modern History. It covers imperialist meddling and modern Iran, but I think it also basically starts in the early modern so I think it's basically 1500 (and the rise of the Safavids) up to the modern day.

Edit: No idea on Indochina - I imagine there's definitely some good options on the Khmer empire.

Thanks - yeah what I'm after is the earlier history - "Middle Ages" I suppose - prior to the whole "Europeans in ships with cannons" dynamic was a major factor (for Africa and Indochina), and pre-Islam for Persia.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on November 11, 2021, 09:19:08 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 11, 2021, 09:03:08 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 10, 2021, 09:46:17 PM
Can anyone recommend good survey works on pre-colonial Africa, pre-Muslim Persia, and pre-colonial Indochina?
In terms of Persia - again I haven't read or bought it - but I've read good things about Iran: A Modern History. It covers imperialist meddling and modern Iran, but I think it also basically starts in the early modern so I think it's basically 1500 (and the rise of the Safavids) up to the modern day.

:hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on November 11, 2021, 09:40:55 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 11, 2021, 09:13:20 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 11, 2021, 08:13:19 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2021, 09:48:15 PM
Just got Dan Jones new book, Powers and Thrones: A New History of the Middle Ages.

Starting reading it today too.  Meant to just read a few pages, but got hooked.  Had to force myself back to the things I needed to get done today.

What sets it apart from the regular run of the mill history of the Middle Ages?

He doesn't get bogged down in minutia.  He has a compelling narrative style.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 11, 2021, 09:41:35 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 11, 2021, 09:03:08 PM
In terms of Persia - again I haven't read or bought it - but I've read good things about Iran: A Modern History. It covers imperialist meddling and modern Iran, but I think it also basically starts in the early modern so I think it's basically 1500 (and the rise of the Safavids) up to the modern day.

The book is definitely worth reading; however, not only does it not cover the pre-Islamic period, the weight in terms of coverage is more towards the modern (19th/20th century) period.

For the pre-Islamic period, I recently got the following book for kindle but haven't started it yet:

https://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-Sasanian-Empire-Sasanian-Parthian/dp/1784537470
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 12, 2021, 02:25:01 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 11, 2021, 09:41:35 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 11, 2021, 09:03:08 PM
In terms of Persia - again I haven't read or bought it - but I've read good things about Iran: A Modern History. It covers imperialist meddling and modern Iran, but I think it also basically starts in the early modern so I think it's basically 1500 (and the rise of the Safavids) up to the modern day.

The book is definitely worth reading; however, not only does it not cover the pre-Islamic period, the weight in terms of coverage is more towards the modern (19th/20th century) period.

For the pre-Islamic period, I recently got the following book for kindle but haven't started it yet:

https://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-Sasanian-Empire-Sasanian-Parthian/dp/1784537470


One concern on that book is author advances an alternate theory of how the Sasanian Empire operated and then also spends substantial time pushing that Islamic conquests of Persia have been misdated and began occurring under Muhammad.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 12, 2021, 02:29:35 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 11, 2021, 09:40:55 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 11, 2021, 09:13:20 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 11, 2021, 08:13:19 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2021, 09:48:15 PM
Just got Dan Jones new book, Powers and Thrones: A New History of the Middle Ages.

Starting reading it today too.  Meant to just read a few pages, but got hooked.  Had to force myself back to the things I needed to get done today.

What sets it apart from the regular run of the mill history of the Middle Ages?

He doesn't get bogged down in minutia.  He has a compelling narrative style.

I have mixed feelings about Dan Jones. I really enjoyed his Plantagenet and Hollow Crown books where he could build a narrative. His Crusaders was a bit of a slog.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 12, 2021, 08:49:34 AM
Quote from: The Brain on November 02, 2021, 04:26:11 AM
Started on Bismarck: A Life, by Steinberg. I haven't read any details about Bismarck before, and this seems to be a decent modern biography. Some weirdness though. In the first chapter the author stans hard for Frederick the Great, but doesn't really explain why, so that is kinda left hanging in the air. A bit later he mentions "Adolph Hitler". What is up with that? From time to time you come across this even by authors who should know what Hitler was called. Is it some kind of code for something? Hmm, have I asked this before? Don't remember.

Finished it. Overall I found it an enjoyable read, and AFAICT it's a decent introduction to Bismarck. Some comments though:

The author writes a lot about Bismarck the person, his psychological makeup etc, which makes sense. He writes about the women in his life etc. But he is almost completely silent on his relationship to his children. He doesn't even mention the births of his kids, and the only child we get any info at all about is Herbert, in connection with Herbert's semi-scandalous planned marriage. Seems an odd blind spot.

The annexation of Alsace-Lorraine seems to me to be a matter of some importance, but the author doesn't write much about it at all. We are not told what the reasoning behind it was, or what Bismarck's thoughts on it were. Which is weird especially since the author earlier commented on the productive lack of really harsh terms on Austria in 1866, paving the way for later alliance, and how the peace with France made France impossible as a potential ally to Germany.

The author at one point mentions casually, while speaking about Bismarck stoking a German sense of military insecurity, that if Germany had stayed on the strategic and tactical defensive in 1914 the enemies would have been killed en masse and Germany would have won WW1. He doesn't elaborate on how this would be so. This seems to me to be some kind of back-of-a-cereal-box understanding of WW1, and that's being generous.

The author several times mentions stuff from WW2, but it's not at all clear how they would be relevant to events 100 years earlier. A descendant of some guy in the 1840s was a July plotter and was killed by Hitler. OK...?

The author has a tendency to blame Bismarck for events under Hitler, and that seems weird to me. Did Bismarck influence the development of Germany? Sure. Was he some divine being who unilaterally directed trends in German and European society? Hardly. It's hard to see a credible way to divine a lot of information about Bismarck from events under Hitler. After Bismarck left office there was a quarter of a century of peace under an incompetent Emperor who didn't have a political genius under him. Then there was WW1, a cataclysmic event. Then you have revolution, Weimar, the Depression, and then Hitler. The author mentions more than once that Hitler was made Reich Chancellor ("the office created by Bismarck"). OK? If anything it seems to me that the 20th century demonstrated the horror of idealists, actors who don't subscribe to Realpolitik. Hitler would never have come to power under a hereditary Hohenzollern Empire, blaming Bismarck for him seems to be stretching reality beyond breaking point. Now the author doesn't come out and say that Bismarck single-handedly caused Hitler, but stuff like "Bismarck's legacy passed through Hindenburg to the last genius-statesman [sic!] that Germany produced, Adolf Hitler [correct spelling this time yay], and the legacy was thus linear and direct between Bismarck and Hitler." is a bit over the top. His comment on WW1 (see above) also makes me doubt the author's general understanding of 20th century history.

The author several times mentions how Bismarck had no power base, how he was completely dependent on the King/Emperor, but he doesn't take this to its logical conclusion that the King has to be given more screentime in a book that tries to understand Bismarck. Unlike some other backseat rulers in history Bismarck was never in a position to make major decisions in the King's name, he had to get the King to agree to things. The King could have dismissed Bismarck at any moment (which the author correctly states several times). The book could have used some more info on Wilhelm I's take on things.

Some whining maybe, but overall I recommend the book to a Bismarck n00b. It is not the definitive biography of Bismarck though, and my impression is that the author doesn't have the intellectual maturity to write the definitive biography. But everyone can't be a genius.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 12, 2021, 09:29:18 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 11, 2021, 09:19:08 PM
:hmm:
:lol: I skim-read :blush:

QuoteThanks - yeah what I'm after is the earlier history - "Middle Ages" I suppose - prior to the whole "Europeans in ships with cannons" dynamic was a major factor (for Africa and Indochina), and pre-Islam for Persia.
It might be worth having a look at Fisftful of Shells. The first half seems focused on the situation in West and West-Central Africa before the Europeans arrive (chapters on the empires of the Sahel, trading centres from Senegambia to Sierra Leone, the Gold Coast and gold trade, Benin and Biafra and the Kingdom of Kongo). Then the second chapter is about the impact of the Europeans arriving and the Atlantic slave trade. If nothing else it might have some decent pointers in the bibliography.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 12, 2021, 09:37:05 AM
Quote from: The Brain on November 12, 2021, 08:49:34 AM
The author has a tendency to blame Bismarck for events under Hitler, and that seems weird to me. Did Bismarck influence the development of Germany? Sure. Was he some divine being who unilaterally directed trends in German and European society? Hardly. It's hard to see a credible way to divine a lot of information about Bismarck from events under Hitler. After Bismarck left office there was a quarter of a century of peace under an incompetent Emperor who didn't have a political genius under him. Then there was WW1, a cataclysmic event. Then you have revolution, Weimar, the Depression, and then Hitler. The author mentions more than once that Hitler was made Reich Chancellor ("the office created by Bismarck"). OK? If anything it seems to me that the 20th century demonstrated the horror of idealists, actors who don't subscribe to Realpolitik. Hitler would never have come to power under a hereditary Hohenzollern Empire, blaming Bismarck for him seems to be stretching reality beyond breaking point. Now the author doesn't come out and say that Bismarck single-handedly caused Hitler, but stuff like "Bismarck's legacy passed through Hindenburg to the last genius-statesman [sic!] that Germany produced, Adolf Hitler [correct spelling this time yay], and the legacy was thus linear and direct between Bismarck and Hitler." is a bit over the top. His comment on WW1 (see above) also makes me doubt the author's general understanding of 20th century history.

In case of messerschmitt:

Yes, I am aware of the reasoning that Germany might have avoided the path that led to Hitler if it had gone parliamentarian in the 19th century. Something that Bismarck fiercely resisted, likely both because of his background and his desire to keep his one source of influence: personal royal power. He did introduce a lot of liberal reforms, more than most countries in the 19th century, but not actual parliamentary power. But say that it had, unless WW1 doesn't happen you're still in a crap place with opportunities for extremists. A parliamentarian Germany wouldn't have magicked away the great power conflict areas of turn-of-the-20th-century Europe. IMHO there are so many ifs that meaningful predictions of fundamentally different turns of events are hard to find. And obviously, it was parliametarianism that made Hitler's rise to power possible, and the author would have called this "ironic" if he had commented on it. Hitler may have gotten the job created by Bismarck, but there was no All-Mighty at the top to give Hitler orders, which was a key component of the the old Prussia/Germany.

I think that the odds would probably have been better with a parliamentarian Germany instead of Wilhelm II Show, but the uncertainties are huge. France was a (male) democracy and it had rampant antisemitism, aggressive dreams of military conquest, conflict between state and Catholics... My guess is that "Weimar France" would have been about as ripe for extremist takeover as Weimar Germany.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Tamas on November 12, 2021, 03:22:00 PM
Was looking for a Battle of the Somme book.

Got a sample of Bloody Victory by William Philpott. Jesus F Christ what drivel. The guy starts off by explaining how people close to the event either had too much personal stake to be objective (Churchill) or were too close to the actual fighting to have any sort of valuable judgement of it (people fighting the battle and then reporting on it).

He continues to thus dismiss the foolish notions of it being a battle full of British misjudgements and bad decisions. No, apparently, it was a clear victory, fulfilling the strategic ambitions of bleeding Germany dry and protecting civilisation.

Holy hell. Like, I can accept people can go overboard in blaming stupid generals for the battle but come on. Pretending like it wasn't an ultimately failed search for the Big Breakthrough is extremely dishonest.

So I have switched to The Battle of the Somme by Alan Axelrod. Now, this is much more in line with my interpretation of the war and the battle but it's very close to be just the polar opposite of Mr. GREAT Britain of the other book. Highlighting how Falkenhayn was a bore and kind of dumb is a weird way for a book on a historical event starting off explaining him and his war policies. Even if its true.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 12, 2021, 03:28:12 PM
I always find WW1 interesting on this because my understanding is that academic historians are broadly far more in the direction of Philpott, but it hasn't move public perception or the received memory of any of the battles or the war itself at all. Which is perhaps why they feel the need to strongly correct the record.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 12, 2021, 03:32:42 PM
I've enjoyed Jack Sheldon's books on the German army on the Western Front in WW1. For instance Fighting the Somme: German Challenges, Dilemmas and Solutions, which might be of interest.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 12, 2021, 03:48:34 PM
FWIW my impression is that the old led by donkeys school has been rightly discredited. What strikes you when you read about WW1 is the extreme pace of innovation and frantic slaughter of many (not all) sacred cows. Top brass was enacting enormous changes in how things were done in their quest for a way to break the stalemate. You're not completely wrong if you say that the difference between an army in 2021 and 1918 is smaller than an army in 1918 and 1914. That being said the "spectacular failure to reach objectives combined with enormous casualties was actually a cunning victory Hail Brexit" modern school is complete BS.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Tamas on November 12, 2021, 04:09:20 PM
Yeah it's easy to spot that a lot of the "led by donkeys" thing is/was too emotionally charged.

But pretending British goals at the Somme were to engage in a war of attrition just seems like it can be easily disproven.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 12, 2021, 04:17:01 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 12, 2021, 03:48:34 PM
FWIW my impression is that the old led by donkeys school has been rightly discredited.

Were any Austro-Hungarian soldiers alive today they might beg to disagree.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 12, 2021, 04:23:14 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 12, 2021, 04:09:20 PM
But pretending British goals at the Somme were to engage in a war of attrition just seems like it can be easily disproven.

Indeed. If attrition had been the goal the slaughter of 1 July makes even less sense.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on November 12, 2021, 04:30:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 12, 2021, 02:29:35 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 11, 2021, 09:40:55 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 11, 2021, 09:13:20 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 11, 2021, 08:13:19 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2021, 09:48:15 PM
Just got Dan Jones new book, Powers and Thrones: A New History of the Middle Ages.

Starting reading it today too.  Meant to just read a few pages, but got hooked.  Had to force myself back to the things I needed to get done today.

What sets it apart from the regular run of the mill history of the Middle Ages?

He doesn't get bogged down in minutia.  He has a compelling narrative style.

I have mixed feelings about Dan Jones. I really enjoyed his Plantagenet and Hollow Crown books where he could build a narrative. His Crusaders was a bit of a slog.

I agree with your assessment of Crusaders - it still remains partly read.  One day I will finish it off but it is on the bottom of the pile.  I quite liked is book on the Templars and breezed through that in a few days.  This one looks even better.

Jacob, it is funny you asked for that, in his introduction Jones says that is a book which should be written, but he is not the one to do it as his area of knowledge is more limited.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 12, 2021, 04:31:44 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 12, 2021, 04:09:20 PM
Yeah it's easy to spot that a lot of the "led by donkeys" thing is/was too emotionally charged.
Yes - though as I say it's the standard popular view. The focus is still entirely on the first day of the Somme

QuoteBut pretending British goals at the Somme were to engage in a war of attrition just seems like it can be easily disproven.
Wasn't Haig's view basically right that, British goals basically part of the allied strategy though at that point? There were supposed to be combined offensives on both fronts, the Germans pre-empted this with the launch of the Verdun offensive. Somme went ahead even though it was no longer part of the combined offensives because the French had had to re-focus entirely on Verdun, but its aim was to support France and to maybe not engage in a war of attrition but keep the Germans there too. My understanding was the generals warned the government not to expect quick victories or anything like that precisely because they didn't have the quantity of forces necessary (not least because of Verdun) but it was essential politically to support the French with an offensive. Or is that wrong?

And, of course, despite its particular traumatic impact on the British it was nothing compared to the types of casualties the French suffered in fighting the war - that goes for WW1 in general.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on November 12, 2021, 04:40:12 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 12, 2021, 04:30:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 12, 2021, 02:29:35 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 11, 2021, 09:40:55 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 11, 2021, 09:13:20 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 11, 2021, 08:13:19 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2021, 09:48:15 PM
Just got Dan Jones new book, Powers and Thrones: A New History of the Middle Ages.

Starting reading it today too.  Meant to just read a few pages, but got hooked.  Had to force myself back to the things I needed to get done today.

What sets it apart from the regular run of the mill history of the Middle Ages?

He doesn't get bogged down in minutia.  He has a compelling narrative style.

I have mixed feelings about Dan Jones. I really enjoyed his Plantagenet and Hollow Crown books where he could build a narrative. His Crusaders was a bit of a slog.

I agree with your assessment of Crusaders - it still remains partly read.  One day I will finish it off but it is on the bottom of the pile.  I quite liked is book on the Templars and breezed through that in a few days.  This one looks even better.

Jacob, it is funny you asked for that, in his introduction Jones says that is a book which should be written, but he is not the one to do it as his area of knowledge is more limited.

I should admit that I was given his latest book as a gift and will be seeing him give a talk later this month. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on November 12, 2021, 04:45:05 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 12, 2021, 04:17:01 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 12, 2021, 03:48:34 PM
FWIW my impression is that the old led by donkeys school has been rightly discredited.

Were any Austro-Hungarian soldiers alive today they might beg to disagree.

Some of the Italian ones too, I believe.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 12, 2021, 04:46:15 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 12, 2021, 04:31:44 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 12, 2021, 04:09:20 PM
Yeah it's easy to spot that a lot of the "led by donkeys" thing is/was too emotionally charged.
Yes - though as I say it's the standard popular view. The focus is still entirely on the first day of the Somme

QuoteBut pretending British goals at the Somme were to engage in a war of attrition just seems like it can be easily disproven.
Wasn't Haig's view basically right that, British goals basically part of the allied strategy though at that point? There were supposed to be combined offensives on both fronts, the Germans pre-empted this with the launch of the Verdun offensive. Somme went ahead even though it was no longer part of the combined offensives because the French had had to re-focus entirely on Verdun, but its aim was to support France and to maybe not engage in a war of attrition but keep the Germans there too. My understanding was the generals warned the government not to expect quick victories or anything like that precisely because they didn't have the quantity of forces necessary (not least because of Verdun) but it was essential politically to support the French with an offensive. Or is that wrong?

And, of course, despite its particular traumatic impact on the British it was nothing compared to the types of casualties the French suffered in fighting the war - that goes for WW1 in general.

I don't think the British generals preparing for the Somme were bluffing their subordinates and gave them objectives that the generals had no intention of actually achieving. I don't think they kept cavalry ready behind the lines (and to some extent actually charged) for the purpose of a battle of attrition. A breakthrough would have relieved pressure on Verdun much quicker than a battle of attrition.

Was a battle that ended up as a battle of attrition the best that was realistically achievable in 1916? My impression is yes. But that's a different question.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 12, 2021, 04:48:55 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 12, 2021, 04:17:01 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 12, 2021, 03:48:34 PM
FWIW my impression is that the old led by donkeys school has been rightly discredited.

Were any Austro-Hungarian soldiers alive today they might beg to disagree.

"Lions led by donkeys" in this context refers to British troops in WW1.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 13, 2021, 02:55:56 PM
Finished Blood and Iron: The Rise and Fall of the German Empire 1871-1918, by Hoyer. Short and sweet at 239 pages, it's a great little introduction to the subject. Obviously it doesn't go into much detail. Hoyer's interpretation of facts is significantly better than Steinberg's. There are a few cases of weird numbers, but they seem to be simple mistakes that should have been caught before printing (I planned to give an example but the bare-bones index let me down). The only significant real error I saw is that Hoyer says that every male served in the army. Imperial Germany didn't actually call up all eligible males in peacetime, far from it, so the personal army experience wasn't as universal as she claims.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on November 26, 2021, 10:01:31 AM
Reading 'The Second World War' by Antony Beevor, I may give up because it's so depressing.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good narrative general history of the conflict, but the stupidity, hate, mistakes and horrifying personal testimonies it a bit much.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on November 26, 2021, 02:28:12 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 26, 2021, 10:01:31 AM
Reading 'The Second World War' by Antony Beevor, I may give up because it's so depressing.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good narrative general history of the conflict, but the stupidity, hate, mistakes and horrifying personal testimonies it a bit much.

Are you not entertained?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 26, 2021, 02:42:24 PM
Yeah. Unlike WW1, WW2 is one of the eminently avoidable catastrophes in world history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 26, 2021, 02:52:49 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 26, 2021, 10:01:31 AM
Reading 'The Second World War' by Antony Beevor, I may give up because it's so depressing.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good narrative general history of the conflict, but the stupidity, hate, mistakes and horrifying personal testimonies it a bit much.

Many WW2 books that include a ground level view are that way. See also Max Hastings' Hell Let Loose which is a great collection of personal experiences of the war, but also includes many painful episodes (he's also quite critical of how the UK treated their Indian subjects). Similarly The German War by Nicholas Stargaard which focuses on the experience of German soldiers and civilians.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 26, 2021, 03:06:51 PM
Surely it's impossible to be otherwise?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on November 26, 2021, 03:46:33 PM
I suppose you could just focus on the strategic-political level and provide a birds eye view of the conflict.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on November 27, 2021, 12:55:44 AM
Focusing a large portion of a grand narrative history on the smaller, personal episodes and experiences, can also help to underscore the utter helplessness most people have when their world is literally on fire around them (Hastings' book is published as Inferno in the US).

I recently read Nikolaus Wachsmann's KL, a history of the concentration camps in Nazi Germany, and there were several times when I just had to put the book down and do something else before I could continue.

The same thing happened when I read Snyder's Bloodlands, come to think of it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 28, 2021, 11:40:31 PM
Quote from: Maladict on November 26, 2021, 02:28:12 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 26, 2021, 10:01:31 AM
Reading 'The Second World War' by Antony Beevor, I may give up because it's so depressing.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good narrative general history of the conflict, but the stupidity, hate, mistakes and horrifying personal testimonies it a bit much.

Are you not entertained?

I'm wondering how Mongers has spent so much time here in spite of evidently knowing nothing at all about the most famous war in history.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on November 29, 2021, 07:48:20 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 28, 2021, 11:40:31 PM
Quote from: Maladict on November 26, 2021, 02:28:12 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 26, 2021, 10:01:31 AM
Reading 'The Second World War' by Antony Beevor, I may give up because it's so depressing.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good narrative general history of the conflict, but the stupidity, hate, mistakes and horrifying personal testimonies it a bit much.

Are you not entertained?

I'm wondering how Mongers has spent so much time here in spite of evidently knowing nothing at all about the most famous war in history.  :hmm:


:hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on November 29, 2021, 07:50:27 AM
Is Ken Burn's 'Vietnam War' book worth a read?

Limited time, so not willing to read an overly long book if it's without many insights and is a just a general overview.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on December 12, 2021, 09:33:08 PM
Got a few books recently:

Viking-Age War Fleets: Shipbuilding, resource management and maritime warfare in 11th-century Denmark by Morten Ravn

Women & Weapons in the Viking World: Amazons of the North by Leszek Gardela

Archaeology and the Sea: in Scandinavia and Britain by Ole Crumlin-Pedersen
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on December 13, 2021, 06:07:29 AM
Quote from: Jacob on December 12, 2021, 09:33:08 PM
Got a few books recently:

Viking-Age War Fleets: Shipbuilding, resource management and maritime warfare in 11th-century Denmark by Morten Ravn

Women & Weapons in the Viking World: Amazons of the North by Leszek Gardela

Archaeology and the Sea: in Scandinavia and Britain by Ole Crumlin-Pedersen

:)

Very interesting topics those, Jacob.

Short reviews after you've done with them?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on December 13, 2021, 09:14:37 AM
Anyone have any recommendations for histories on pre-20th century Ireland?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 13, 2021, 09:55:02 AM
Roy Foster's Modern Ireland (1600-1972) is very good.

I haven't read it but I imagine Paul Bew's Ireland: The Politics of Enmity (1789-2006) would also be good, and I have read his biography of Parnell so I imagine really strong on the 19th century.

This Great Calamity by Christine Kinealy is excellent on the famine (but should probably be read with Tim Pat Coogan's The Famine Plot).

I'm not really sure for anything pre-Stuart settlement/Cromwell.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on December 13, 2021, 10:04:14 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 13, 2021, 09:55:02 AM
Roy Foster's Modern Ireland (1600-1972) is very good.

:cheers: Looks like a good enough fit. Thanks!

QuoteI'm not really sure for anything pre-Stuart settlement/Cromwell.

:weep: This is really what I was after, too.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 13, 2021, 02:52:02 PM
Incidentally bought a new cookbook - it looks awful. But that is a good sign, I think. Apparently it was written for Pakistani/North Indian students moving to the West for university and how to cook home-style food ("without your home kitchen or cook").

The recipes look very good (and each has a photo of how it looks at the end which has clearly just been taken by digital camera/phone and not styled or touched up which I appreciate), but I really love the amateur author's asides as well like in the intro to chapli kebabs he notes that there are very good ones in a village near Abbotabad - and then, in brackets, "where Osama bin Laden lived and was eventually killed, incidentally" :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 15, 2021, 07:37:03 AM
I'm reading World War I Illustrated Atlas: Campaigns and Battles from 1914 to 1918, by Neiberg. It seems generally reasonable so far, though I've seen some errors (Tokyo moves around a bit). It has one problem that it shares with almost all English language historical atlases: borders and frontlines are given as "soft" kinda-somewhere-here lines, even when exactly known. Why wouldn't I want exact info just because it's a historical atlas? This always weirds me out. Granted, it's a bit better here than in the worst examples of the type.

Apparently the author is one of those people who can tell you about divisions on a map but is completely clueless about major world events. Under a photo of Lenin: "...the Germans smuggled Bolshevik leader V.I. Lenin into St. Petersburg in 1917. He soon began a revolution against Tsar Nicholas II." I mean really.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on December 15, 2021, 09:01:49 AM
For the interested Yanks, the United States Naval Institute Press is offering a fabulous deal until Christmas: 50% off list price and free shipping.  You don't need to be a member (in fact, the deal is better than members get).  If you've been looking to fill out your collection of Norman Friedman Illustrated Design History books, or to get that copy of Kaigun that always seemed overpriced, now is your moment.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 15, 2021, 10:26:25 AM
Moonlighting as a book salesman?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on December 15, 2021, 10:40:52 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 15, 2021, 10:26:25 AM
Moonlighting as a book salesman?

Moonlighting as a book buyer who wants to let other book buyers know about a good deal.

If I was a salesman I would have linked to the purchase page.  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on December 15, 2021, 03:58:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 15, 2021, 09:01:49 AM
For the interested Yanks, the United States Naval Institute Press is offering a fabulous deal until Christmas: 50% off list price and free shipping.  You don't need to be a member (in fact, the deal is better than members get).  If you've been looking to fill out your collection of Norman Friedman Illustrated Design History books, or to get that copy of Kaigun that always seemed overpriced, now is your moment.

Kaigun it is. Thanks!  :cool:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 24, 2021, 05:18:10 AM
Finished Rise of the Tang Dynasty: The Reunification of China and the Military Response to the Steppe Nomads AD581-626, by Romane. It's a book of two halves. First is 130 pages of a straight narrative of the period in question, essentially a condensed version of the Chinese histories, complete with anecdotes of individual martial skill etc. Then 75 pages of appendices dealing with more general subject matters like East-West contacts and Central Asia in the ancient era, military geography of China, Chinese cities etc. Overall I think the book is fine for what it is, its main purpose is to make the information available to English speakers who don't feel like reading the sources. One oddity is that, while it does have some nice color plates, there are no maps at all in the book. Now maps in military history books are less important to me than to some readers, I rarely follow the action in detail on a map while reading a text. But a map of China with the various provinces and major cities would have been helpful I think, Western readers are generally less familiar with the relative positions of Chinese provinces than say those of European countries.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on January 09, 2022, 11:18:54 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 13, 2021, 06:07:29 AM
Quote from: Jacob on December 12, 2021, 09:33:08 PM
Got a few books recently:

Viking-Age War Fleets: Shipbuilding, resource management and maritime warfare in 11th-century Denmark by Morten Ravn

Women & Weapons in the Viking World: Amazons of the North by Leszek Gardela

Archaeology and the Sea: in Scandinavia and Britain by Ole Crumlin-Pedersen

:)

Very interesting topics those, Jacob.

Short reviews after you've done with them?

Women & Weapons in the Viking World: Amazons of the North by Leszek Gardela

Gardela does a thorough review of the evidence for armed women in Viking Age Scandinavia. He covers the archeological record - especially graves (including the much discussed grave Bj 581 from Birka), but also other parts of the material culture - as well as the historical record - the various categories of sagas, chronicles, travellers' accounts, and contemporary evidence in neighbouring cultures. He offers multiple possible interpretations for the evidence considering the wider context, before finally engaging in some comparisons with "armed women" in other places and times. ​

When it comes to interpretation, Gardela is very diligent in explaining why every piece of evidence could be interpreted as something other than warrior women. In the end his conclusion is something like "we don't have clear evidence for actual warrior women in viking society, but the concept of them was embedded in viking culture."

The book is - as expected - excellent in terms of laying out the record, an overview of the preceding scholarship, and the various interpretation challenges. It's solid enough that you can see how arguments that warrior women were a historical reality to some extent during the viking age are argued.

The cross cultural section on "women with weapons" is an interesting addition  - in particular the bit on cross-dressing Dutch women during the age of Empire and the warrior women of Dahomey (both of which I knew little of).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 09, 2022, 11:21:08 PM
I'm about 100 pages or so in to William Dalrymple's The Anarchy, about the EIC and its rise to power and pseudo-statehood. Great reading so far, given that Dalrymple has focused almost exclusively on the affairs of the Indian states to this point.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2022, 11:23:29 PM
What's EIC?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on January 09, 2022, 11:23:57 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2022, 11:23:29 PM
What's EIC?

East India Company, I expect.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 09, 2022, 11:33:10 PM
Yes, specifically the English/British East India Company, though the VOC (Dutch) and the French EIC both have supporting roles.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 10, 2022, 02:52:28 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 09, 2022, 11:18:54 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 13, 2021, 06:07:29 AM
Quote from: Jacob on December 12, 2021, 09:33:08 PM
Got a few books recently:

Viking-Age War Fleets: Shipbuilding, resource management and maritime warfare in 11th-century Denmark by Morten Ravn

Women & Weapons in the Viking World: Amazons of the North by Leszek Gardela

Archaeology and the Sea: in Scandinavia and Britain by Ole Crumlin-Pedersen

:)

Very interesting topics those, Jacob.

Short reviews after you've done with them?

Women & Weapons in the Viking World: Amazons of the North by Leszek Gardela

Gardela does a thorough review of the evidence for armed women in Viking Age Scandinavia. He covers the archeological record - especially graves (including the much discussed grave Bj 581 from Birka), but also other parts of the material culture - as well as the historical record - the various categories of sagas, chronicles, travellers' accounts, and contemporary evidence in neighbouring cultures. He offers multiple possible interpretations for the evidence considering the wider context, before finally engaging in some comparisons with "armed women" in other places and times. ​

When it comes to interpretation, Gardela is very diligent in explaining why every piece of evidence could be interpreted as something other than warrior women. In the end his conclusion is something like "we don't have clear evidence for actual warrior women in viking society, but the concept of them was embedded in viking culture."

The book is - as expected - excellent in terms of laying out the record, an overview of the preceding scholarship, and the various interpretation challenges. It's solid enough that you can see how arguments that warrior women were a historical reality to some extent during the viking age are argued.

The cross cultural section on "women with weapons" is an interesting addition  - in particular the bit on cross-dressing Dutch women during the age of Empire and the warrior women of Dahomey (both of which I knew little of).

I enjoyed this review. :) Might get the book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 10, 2022, 06:55:35 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 09, 2022, 11:18:54 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 13, 2021, 06:07:29 AM
Quote from: Jacob on December 12, 2021, 09:33:08 PM
Got a few books recently:

Viking-Age War Fleets: Shipbuilding, resource management and maritime warfare in 11th-century Denmark by Morten Ravn

Women & Weapons in the Viking World: Amazons of the North by Leszek Gardela

Archaeology and the Sea: in Scandinavia and Britain by Ole Crumlin-Pedersen

:)

Very interesting topics those, Jacob.

Short reviews after you've done with them?

Women & Weapons in the Viking World: Amazons of the North by Leszek Gardela

Gardela does a thorough review of the evidence for armed women in Viking Age Scandinavia. He covers the archeological record - especially graves (including the much discussed grave Bj 581 from Birka), but also other parts of the material culture - as well as the historical record - the various categories of sagas, chronicles, travellers' accounts, and contemporary evidence in neighbouring cultures. He offers multiple possible interpretations for the evidence considering the wider context, before finally engaging in some comparisons with "armed women" in other places and times. ​
.....

Jacob, thank you for the review; sounds intriguing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 10, 2022, 09:31:32 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 09, 2022, 11:21:08 PM
I'm about 100 pages or so in to William Dalrymple's The Anarchy, about the EIC and its rise to power and pseudo-statehood. Great reading so far, given that Dalrymple has focused almost exclusively on the affairs of the Indian states to this point.  :)
Just got this - planning to read the Company Quartet. But won't get to it for a bit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 10, 2022, 09:55:44 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 10, 2022, 09:31:32 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 09, 2022, 11:21:08 PM
I'm about 100 pages or so in to William Dalrymple's The Anarchy, about the EIC and its rise to power and pseudo-statehood. Great reading so far, given that Dalrymple has focused almost exclusively on the affairs of the Indian states to this point.  :)
Just got this - planning to read the Company Quartet. But won't get to it for a bit.

:cheers: I think I may end up doing the same after I clear a few from my reading pile.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 13, 2022, 05:37:27 AM
Finished Ancient Rome Infographics, by Guillerat et al. The Roman state is presented in infographics form, in three areas: 1) The Lands and People of the Empire 2) Government, Worship and Social Needs, and 3) Rome's Military Might. Obviously population numbers and similar are estimates when it comes to the ancient world, and they are very clear about this in the introduction. They are also clear on why they don't cover for instance art and literature. I like the format, and I've always liked infographics (especially 19th/early 20th century ones), I think the book is a nice addition to what's written on Rome. Some pages are not easily digested at a quick glance, but that's as it should be I think, there's a lot of info in some of them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2022, 07:52:05 AM
I think my favorite Roman infographic is that online digital atlas.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on January 13, 2022, 03:16:06 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 13, 2022, 05:37:27 AM
Finished Ancient Rome Infographics, by Guillerat et al. The Roman state is presented in infographics form, in three areas: 1) The Lands and People of the Empire 2) Government, Worship and Social Needs, and 3) Rome's Military Might. Obviously population numbers and similar are estimates when it comes to the ancient world, and they are very clear about this in the introduction. They are also clear on why they don't cover for instance art and literature. I like the format, and I've always liked infographics (especially 19th/early 20th century ones), I think the book is a nice addition to what's written on Rome. Some pages are not easily digested at a quick glance, but that's as it should be I think, there's a lot of info in some of them.

That sounds pretty cool :cheers:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 14, 2022, 09:06:24 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 09, 2022, 11:21:08 PM
I'm about 100 pages or so in to William Dalrymple's The Anarchy, about the EIC and its rise to power and pseudo-statehood. Great reading so far, given that Dalrymple has focused almost exclusively on the affairs of the Indian states to this point.  :)

His City of Djinns is outstanding. I wasn't hugely impressed by White Mughals though and haven't picked up anything else by him since. I'll give this a try - it's certainly a very interesting area of history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 14, 2022, 09:33:18 AM
Thus far, it's definitely the tidiest narrative of that era of the EIC that I've read. He keeps everything flowing properly, doesn't confuse the reader with too many terms at the same time, and has been doing an excellent job of putting the Company's actions in context of what's going on with the rest of India.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 16, 2022, 07:46:22 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 14, 2022, 09:33:18 AM
Thus far, it's definitely the tidiest narrative of that era of the EIC that I've read. He keeps everything flowing properly, doesn't confuse the reader with too many terms at the same time, and has been doing an excellent job of putting the Company's actions in context of what's going on with the rest of India.

Well, I'm sold. It's an interesting area of history that I don't know much about.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 16, 2022, 08:06:33 PM
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on January 16, 2022, 08:38:00 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 14, 2022, 09:33:18 AM
Thus far, it's definitely the tidiest narrative of that era of the EIC that I've read. He keeps everything flowing properly, doesn't confuse the reader with too many terms at the same time, and has been doing an excellent job of putting the Company's actions in context of what's going on with the rest of India.

Working on deepening those Pax Pamir / Johns Company skills, I see...  :shifty:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 16, 2022, 09:06:11 PM
I have to prepare for the release of John Company 2nd ed., yes.  :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 16, 2022, 09:28:00 PM
 :lol: I made the mistake of going on to Goodreads and seeing what the 1-star reviews had to say. It's awash in Hindu nationalists who clearly haven't read the book and are furious that Dalrymple portrays the Mughals as anything other than bloodthirsty, Hindu-genociding savages.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: viper37 on January 19, 2022, 09:30:01 AM
The Last Dying Light, A novel of Belisarius
(Last of the Romans book #1)

It's an historical novel, and I think it's my first in English, a non sci-fi/fantasy novel.

It's about the Byzantine Empire, about a slave who became General, who challenged an Emp... nah.  :P

I thought it would be interesting as the Eastern Roman Empire is not something I am that well versed in, compared to the Western part of the Empire.  My latin classes focused on Pompeii and Rome after all. :)

Despite the title, it ain't much about Belisarius.  In the first novel, you see him a quarter of the way in, for a few lines, as he intervenes to secure the last leg of the hero's journey saving the future Empress Theodora from a riot in Constantinople.
He later reappears to fight the Avars in Crimea, with our hero.

So, the book focuses on Varus, at the beginning, a slave to Roman Emperor Justin.  Despite his status as a slave, he and his brother have received decent education and martial training.  After saving the future empress from a mob, he is granted his freedom and offered the choice to merrily go in his way or join the army to fight for Justin&Justinian's dreams of recreating the full Roman Empire.

Varus is an historical character, a Byzantine general of Heruli origins who rose the ranks to command an Heruli foederati (which he does in the 2nd book), fighting in Persia, among other things.  He is mentioned by Procopius, but I can't find much more than that. 

The author freely admits that he changed the order of some events, sometimes placed historical characters where they weren't and of course, added some new characters.

All in all, it's a good book about the Byzantine life of the early 6th century and some of its military campaigns.  I still prefer some good SW books over this ;) , but it's a pretty interesting read.  2.99$/books on Amazon Kindle.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Berkut on January 19, 2022, 10:01:05 AM
The Rules of the Game: Jutland and British Naval Command

https://www.amazon.com/Rules-Game-Jutland-British-Command/dp/1591143365/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1642604380&sr=8-1 (https://www.amazon.com/Rules-Game-Jutland-British-Command/dp/1591143365/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1642604380&sr=8-1)


My latest audible book. It is detailed, VERY detailed, tear apart of the Battle of Jutland. Tries to pick apart a lot of the controversy - seems pretty even handed to me so far.


But it goes into GREAT detail. Like....minute by minute analysis of the opening moments of the battle, how the BCF was deployed, signalling, who order who to do what, why, and when.


Then it breaks off, and spends some hours of narration talking about the Victorian Navy, the long peace, and how that effected who was rewarded, who was promoted, and why the men who ended up in charge at Jutland were THOSE men, instead of some other men, and how their training and culture resulted in the leadership that the British Navy ended up with.


I freaking love this kind of shit, but I could imagine a lot of people falling asleep once they get into the nuance of why Beatty signalled this instead of that at minute XYZ, and whether or not it was obeyed immediately, and if not, why not, etc., etc., etc.


Highly recommend if you like this kind of thing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on January 19, 2022, 10:32:32 AM
Quote from: viper37 on January 19, 2022, 09:30:01 AM
The Last Dying Light, A novel of Belisarius
(Last of the Romans book #1)

It's an historical novel, and I think it's my first in English, a non sci-fi/fantasy novel.

It's about the Byzantine Empire, about a slave who became General, who challenged an Emp... nah.  :P

I thought it would be interesting as the Eastern Roman Empire is not something I am that well versed in, compared to the Western part of the Empire.  My latin classes focused on Pompeii and Rome after all. :)

Despite the title, it ain't much about Belisarius.  In the first novel, you see him a quarter of the way in, for a few lines, as he intervenes to secure the last leg of the hero's journey saving the future Empress Theodora from a riot in Constantinople.
He later reappears to fight the Avars in Crimea, with our hero.

So, the book focuses on Varus, at the beginning, a slave to Roman Emperor Justin.  Despite his status as a slave, he and his brother have received decent education and martial training.  After saving the future empress from a mob, he is granted his freedom and offered the choice to merrily go in his way or join the army to fight for Justin&Justinian's dreams of recreating the full Roman Empire.

Varus is an historical character, a Byzantine general of Heruli origins who rose the ranks to command an Heruli foederati (which he does in the 2nd book), fighting in Persia, among other things.  He is mentioned by Procopius, but I can't find much more than that. 

The author freely admits that he changed the order of some events, sometimes placed historical characters where they weren't and of course, added some new characters.

All in all, it's a good book about the Byzantine life of the early 6th century and some of its military campaigns.  I still prefer some good SW books over this ;) , but it's a pretty interesting read.  2.99$/books on Amazon Kindle.

Robert Graves write a novel on Belisarious. I remember it being very good, if not quite at the level of I, Claudius.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: viper37 on January 19, 2022, 02:36:23 PM
I'll keep that in mind, thanks.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on January 19, 2022, 04:22:44 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 19, 2022, 10:32:32 AM
Quote from: viper37 on January 19, 2022, 09:30:01 AM
The Last Dying Light, A novel of Belisarius
(Last of the Romans book #1)

It's an historical novel, and I think it's my first in English, a non sci-fi/fantasy novel.

It's about the Byzantine Empire, about a slave who became General, who challenged an Emp... nah.  :P

I thought it would be interesting as the Eastern Roman Empire is not something I am that well versed in, compared to the Western part of the Empire.  My latin classes focused on Pompeii and Rome after all. :)

Despite the title, it ain't much about Belisarius.  In the first novel, you see him a quarter of the way in, for a few lines, as he intervenes to secure the last leg of the hero's journey saving the future Empress Theodora from a riot in Constantinople.
He later reappears to fight the Avars in Crimea, with our hero.

So, the book focuses on Varus, at the beginning, a slave to Roman Emperor Justin.  Despite his status as a slave, he and his brother have received decent education and martial training.  After saving the future empress from a mob, he is granted his freedom and offered the choice to merrily go in his way or join the army to fight for Justin&Justinian's dreams of recreating the full Roman Empire.

Varus is an historical character, a Byzantine general of Heruli origins who rose the ranks to command an Heruli foederati (which he does in the 2nd book), fighting in Persia, among other things.  He is mentioned by Procopius, but I can't find much more than that. 

The author freely admits that he changed the order of some events, sometimes placed historical characters where they weren't and of course, added some new characters.

All in all, it's a good book about the Byzantine life of the early 6th century and some of its military campaigns.  I still prefer some good SW books over this ;) , but it's a pretty interesting read.  2.99$/books on Amazon Kindle.

Robert Graves write a novel on Belisarious. I remember it being very good, if not quite at the level of I, Claudius.

Yup, called Count Belisarius. I enjoyed it.

Main drawback was the character of Belisarius - too decent and honourable for his own good (or for the good of anyone else). Reading it, I kinda felt annoyed - everyone is telling him "overthrow Justinian already", and you aren't given much reason in the novel to disagree that this would be a good idea!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 19, 2022, 08:48:15 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 19, 2022, 10:01:05 AM
The Rules of the Game: Jutland and British Naval Command

https://www.amazon.com/Rules-Game-Jutland-British-Command/dp/1591143365/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1642604380&sr=8-1 (https://www.amazon.com/Rules-Game-Jutland-British-Command/dp/1591143365/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1642604380&sr=8-1)


My latest audible book. It is detailed, VERY detailed, tear apart of the Battle of Jutland. Tries to pick apart a lot of the controversy - seems pretty even handed to me so far.


But it goes into GREAT detail. Like....minute by minute analysis of the opening moments of the battle, how the BCF was deployed, signalling, who order who to do what, why, and when.


Then it breaks off, and spends some hours of narration talking about the Victorian Navy, the long peace, and how that effected who was rewarded, who was promoted, and why the men who ended up in charge at Jutland were THOSE men, instead of some other men, and how their training and culture resulted in the leadership that the British Navy ended up with.


I freaking love this kind of shit, but I could imagine a lot of people falling asleep once they get into the nuance of why Beatty signalled this instead of that at minute XYZ, and whether or not it was obeyed immediately, and if not, why not, etc., etc., etc.


Highly recommend if you like this kind of thing.


We've discussed that book several times here.  Glad you enjoyed it.

If you want some good outside-the-box WW2 naval reading, try The Royal Navy in Eastern Waters https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07216DCX7/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07216DCX7/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1).  While the author over-eggs the pudding a bit with regard to his claims of being the only guy to figure out some of these things (a frequent problem with academic works extended into books), he does give some refreshing new insights on things like: why were HMS Repulse and HMS Prince of Wales placed in such an exposed position at Singapore?  Conventional wisdom has it that this was just another of Winston Churchill's impulsive moves, but Boyd shows that it was the Admiralty who wanted them there; Churchill wanted them in Ceylon.

The book's main theme is that the Indian Ocean was the second-most-important British naval concern, for reasons that are largely ignored by more combat-centric histories.  I liked it a lot, and think that you would, as well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on January 19, 2022, 09:20:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 19, 2022, 08:48:15 PM
The book's main theme is that the Indian Ocean was the second-most-important British naval concern, for reasons that are largely ignored by more combat-centric histories.  I liked it a lot, and think that you would, as well.

Interesting. What were those reasons? Commerce? Maintaining the Empire? Logistics?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 20, 2022, 06:19:16 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 19, 2022, 09:20:40 PM
Interesting. What were those reasons? Commerce? Maintaining the Empire? Logistics?
Empire makes most sense to me. India was key not least because of the role of the Indian Army in enforcing imperial rule everywhere else (plus, obviously, fighting in all of Britain's wars).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 20, 2022, 03:46:20 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 19, 2022, 09:20:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 19, 2022, 08:48:15 PM
The book's main theme is that the Indian Ocean was the second-most-important British naval concern, for reasons that are largely ignored by more combat-centric histories.  I liked it a lot, and think that you would, as well.

Interesting. What were those reasons? Commerce? Maintaining the Empire? Logistics?

The oil refineries at Abadan fueled the entire empire war effort in the eastern hemisphere.  Plus, it was the supply line to the Middle East. 

It was ironic that the UK couldn't find the ships to create an eastern Fleet in late 1941 but could in early 1942, when they'd lost some of the key elements of it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2022, 04:48:03 PM
For the comic books graphic novels fans: https://www.humblebundle.com/books/humanoids-megabundle-featuring-incal-books

QuoteSci-fi masterpieces & groundbreaking graphic fiction

Get transported to one of the most influential sci-fi dystopias of all time in this megabundle from Humanoids! Discover the groundbreaking The Incal series by Alejandro Jodorowsky and Moebius, then explore the wildest reaches of the universe in the The Metabarons saga. Add Space Bastards and more acclaimed graphic fiction to your collection, all while supporting comic creators through the Hero Initiative!

In case you missed them... The top two tiers of this megabundle include content from two past popular bundles from Humanoids: The Incal & More and Moebius & More.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 25, 2022, 05:26:42 PM
I read a collection of articles by Harriet Beecher Stowe about her time here in Florida.  In the Antebellum period Florida's economy centered around cotton grown in the panhandle.  During Reconstruction three of modern Florida's industry began to take shape, winter crops, tourism and wealthy northerners "Wintering" in Florida; Stowe was one such northerner.

While the panhandle was strongly Confederate territory (Florida has the dubious distinction of having slaveholders with the most slaves per capita); the peninsula was more Union, it's primary industries had been shipping and cattle rustling raising; both of which were damaged by the Confederacy.  (During the war the "Crackers" who raised cattle preferred to sell livestock to the Spaniards in Cuba, who paid in gold rather than the CSA who paid in Confederate money.)  During reconstruction some northerners (including Stowe's brother Charles Beecher) had the idea that pro-Union men would move in and overwhelm the unreconstructed southerners and repeat the Bleeding Kansas of the pre-Civil War era.  (Florida was referred to as "America's Italy" by this crowd.  That reminded me of a quote from "The Third Man.")  A number of Stowe's articles try to sell Florida as a beautiful land of opportunity.  "Opportunity" was plausible; Florida was so underpopulated at the time that homesteading was still a practice here.  "Beautiful" is more of a stretch; Stowe only lived here during the winters and returned to New England for the summer.  Of course the plan didn't pan out; for obvious reasons northerners didn't move down here full time in any number until the era of DDT and air conditioning.

Regardless the articles are interesting.  Stowe did have a sharp eye for detail, especially in nature.  She was an early advocate for the environment and inspired some of the first restrictions on shooting birds in Florida.  You can tell she came from a family of preachers as she'll sometimes slip into a sermon.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on January 31, 2022, 04:28:19 PM
Not sure if there are any murder myster/whodunnit fans here - but I quite enjoyed R.V. Raman's A Will to Kill.

There's lots of tropes of a golden age mystery: country house (though in India), elderly family patriarch with a large estate to divide, lots of motives and secrets to be investigated after a body's found. Which is interesting given that there are some plot points around art forgery and imitating the masters which makes it a little more pomo.

But I'd recommend if you like the genre and are looking for something new.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 31, 2022, 04:34:30 PM
I finished CS Lewis's "The Discarded Image."  When I was in college I took a number of courses on English literature during the renaissance and seventeenth century.  I see now that this book was an influence on the professors that I had.  The book covers the cosmological model derived from Ptolemy and Aristotle and how that view influenced the literature of the middle ages, renaissance and into the seventeenth century (even as late as Milton who had met Galileo.)  The book is a fun read (if medieval cosmology is your sort of thing) Lewis manages to keep things moving throughout and even throws in a shoutout to Professor Tolkien.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Berkut on January 31, 2022, 04:46:44 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 20, 2022, 04:48:03 PM
For the comic books graphic novels fans: https://www.humblebundle.com/books/humanoids-megabundle-featuring-incal-books

QuoteSci-fi masterpieces & groundbreaking graphic fiction

Get transported to one of the most influential sci-fi dystopias of all time in this megabundle from Humanoids! Discover the groundbreaking The Incal series by Alejandro Jodorowsky and Moebius, then explore the wildest reaches of the universe in the The Metabarons saga. Add Space Bastards and more acclaimed graphic fiction to your collection, all while supporting comic creators through the Hero Initiative!

In case you missed them... The top two tiers of this megabundle include content from two past popular bundles from Humanoids: The Incal & More and Moebius & More.




Hmmm. Do you get the actual physical copies, or just digital versions?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on January 31, 2022, 04:51:32 PM
PDFs, ePUB, CBZ only.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 31, 2022, 08:15:45 PM
Today I learnt, whilst reading my Hamlyn Children's 'History of the World' by Plantagenet Somerset Fry* that Marshal Turenne was perhaps the greatest general in French history apart from Napoleon.

This in a chapter 54 which is entitled 'The Greatness of France' ** :cool:




* Surely an author Shelf would approve of.

**Shirley an chapter Valmy would approve of.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 01, 2022, 12:33:19 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 31, 2022, 04:51:32 PM
PDFs, ePUB, CBZ only.

Yes, and this particular collection is all over the place, with some stuff only available as PDF.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 01, 2022, 12:35:20 AM
I saw on the weekend that Adrian Tchaikovsky who wrote the excellent Children of Time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Time_(novel)) I mentioned above apparently now also writes for Warhammer 40k. :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Berkut on February 01, 2022, 02:38:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 01, 2022, 12:35:20 AM
I saw on the weekend that Adrian Tchaikovsky who wrote the excellent Children of Time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Time_(novel)) I mentioned above apparently now also writes for Warhammer 40k. :lol:

I liked the first book, and started reading his second, and was promptly bored for some reason. Should I perservere?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 01, 2022, 03:10:33 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 01, 2022, 02:38:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 01, 2022, 12:35:20 AM
I saw on the weekend that Adrian Tchaikovsky who wrote the excellent Children of Time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Time_(novel)) I mentioned above apparently now also writes for Warhammer 40k. :lol:

I liked the first book, and started reading his second, and was promptly bored for some reason. Should I perservere?

I admit I have yet to finish the second (kindle says about 35% in). -_- It has a similar premise as the first book, albeit with other (multiple, I guess?) species and our human/spider friends thrown into the mix. It somehow didn't grab me much, either. I feel detailing the story of the species' uplift in the system by itself would have been fine, but it was actually the bits aboard the human/spider vessel that didn't grab me at all.

Alternately, I think I would have liked to see the further history of the spiders/humans inhabiting a planet together.

There's a third book in the series coming this year.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on February 02, 2022, 08:20:58 AM
Happy 100th anniversary, 'Ulysses' published one hundred years ago today:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60080683 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60080683)


Yet another classic book I've failed to read.  :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on February 02, 2022, 09:13:20 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 01, 2022, 02:38:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 01, 2022, 12:35:20 AM
I saw on the weekend that Adrian Tchaikovsky who wrote the excellent Children of Time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Time_(novel)) I mentioned above apparently now also writes for Warhammer 40k. :lol:

I liked the first book, and started reading his second, and was promptly bored for some reason. Should I perservere?

It's good but nowhere near as entertaining as the first one although more intellligent in some ways. 

He's extremely prolific. Seems to bring out 4 or 5 books a year. His series on bioforms Dogs of War and Breahead is very good.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 02, 2022, 03:00:11 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 02, 2022, 08:20:58 AM
Happy 100th anniversary, 'Ulysses' published one hundred years ago today:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60080683 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60080683)


Yet another classic book I've failed to read.  :blush:

I've read it three times; the first time I thought it was the greatest book ever written, the last time I thought it had flashes of brilliance (notably the Circe episode); but far too many parts where Joyce set out to demonstrate what a phenomenally clever writer he is (most egregiously in the tangents in the Cyclops episode, says I.) 

If you do decide to tackle it I recommend reading "Dubliners" and "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" first; he reuses characters from both books in Ulysses.

I do have a copy of Lettres Persanes from Shakespeare and Company.   :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on February 02, 2022, 03:18:47 PM
I have the Penguin edition of Ulysses. I've not finished the book itself (duh), but I loved the extensive foreword about the work's history. Especially that Joyce modeled the book around a very intricate structure of themes and motifs. He released the framework a few years lter, frustrated that no one seemed to notice it :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 02, 2022, 03:43:10 PM
I love Joyce and Ulysses especially. What Sav says is definitely true, but I think it works despite the constant showing off :lol:

Trieste's a lovely city too :wub:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 02, 2022, 03:55:29 PM
I think I made it to about page 5
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 03, 2022, 08:38:15 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 02, 2022, 03:18:47 PM
I have the Penguin edition of Ulysses. I've not finished the book itself (duh), but I loved the extensive foreword about the work's history. Especially that Joyce modeled the book around a very intricate structure of themes and motifs. He released the framework a few years lter, frustrated that no one seemed to notice it :lol:

I think every chapter is supposed to stand for a part of the Odyssey, a body part and an academic discipline.  The first is obvious (the book is called "Ulysses" after all) the other two not so much.  In addition the book is loaded with riddles, enigmas and puns.  Those range from obvious (the "Says I" (eye) motif from the Cyclops chapter) to obscure (the milk woman is supposed to represent a Irish mythology which is intended as Joyce's criticism of the Irish Renaissance) to the incomprehensible, like this riddle in the Nestor chapter:

QuoteThey bundled their books away, pencils clacking, pages rustling. Crowding together they strapped and buckled their satchels, all gabbling gaily:

—A riddle, sir? Ask me, sir.

—O, ask me, sir.

—A hard one, sir.

—This is the riddle, Stephen said:

The cock crew,
The sky was blue:
The bells in heaven
Were striking eleven.
'Tis time for this poor soul
To go to heaven.

What is that?

—What, sir?

—Again, sir. We didn't hear.

Their eyes grew bigger as the lines were repeated. After a silence Cochrane said:

—What is it, sir? We give it up.

Stephen, his throat itching, answered:

—The fox burying his grandmother under a hollybush.

He stood up and gave a shout of nervous laughter to which their cries echoed dismay.

I'm not surprised that the critics at the time didn't get it all.  I'm not sure our present day scholars have gotten it all.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 03, 2022, 09:01:11 AM
I just read They by Kay Dick. It was published in 1971 and didn't get much attention and was then out of print for the next forty years. There's been a re-print recently from Faber because a literary agent apparently picked up a second hand copy in a charity shop and loved it.

It's really good, I think. It's a really striking dystopia/English countryside horror. It's a small book - maybe a novella, maybe a collection of connected short stories - of about 100 pages.

Basically it's an unnamed narrator who is living somewhere on the coast in the South Downs. The narrator occasionally visits or is visited by neighbours or friends from further away who are creative or artistic or individualists or loners etc. This group are threatened by "them".

It's never really explained who they are, or where they come from. They are in some way running the country now and conducting surveys. They are building towers ("retreats") with no natural liight just an air vent where people are cured to go back to normal. And they're a permanent threat to the narrator and their circle.

For example the narrator will go for a walk and come back to find that they have taken the copy of Middlemarch (locking your door is pointless and anti-social - it just provokes them) or they've taken paintings from your wall. If people keep going "beyond the limit" they're punished and then returned - it's normally linked to their transgression so a painter who keeps painting is blinded, a musician is made deaf, if the narrator transgresses they would amputate their hands and cut out their tongue.

It's not a simple or straightforward dystpoia - there's no real plot. There's no world-building or anything like that - though they started with a dead dog on the steps of the National Gallery. It's more of an exploration through short stories of the unease and unquiet of something pervasive. Children in the village, for example, now mainly seem to get their kicks out of animal cruelty; neighbours ask for a rose from your rose bush only to crush it to a pulp while smiling at you; they will come to your house for tea unannonced and spend a day with you.

But I really liked it - and it is exploring themes of the destruction of art and what's the point of it if no-one's paying attention which seem particularly striking in a book that basically had one hard-copy run and was then not re-published for another 40 years.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 11, 2022, 07:39:22 AM
Finished Women in Ancient Rome, by Chrystal. Pretty good, but it doesn't cover every aspect, which the author admits. It is almost completely based on written sources, but there is some discussion of results from human remains etc. At just over 200 pages it's a nice introduction to the subject of Roman women, for a reader who already has basic knowledge of ancient Rome.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on February 15, 2022, 04:54:25 PM
Reading 'A Line in the Sand' - why am I reading this, it starts with the Sykes-Picot agreement, I mean it isn't going to have a happy ending is it?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 16, 2022, 04:18:34 AM
Finished Women in Ancient Egypt, by Robins. A nice overview/introduction. Of course the source material is extremely limited, something the author stresses. I like that she avoids reading more into limited sources than they support. The book is almost 30 years old, but my guess is that there hasn't been a quantum leap in the field since then.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 02:21:21 PM
Brain, you might enjoy this:

https://www.amazon.ca/When-Women-Ruled-World-Queens/dp/142622088X/ref=asc_df_142622088X/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=414405674363&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10151997985655912988&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001575&hvtargid=pla-880360771132&psc=1

It provides a good overview of the current state of archeological finds and places the women who held positions of power within the context of what we now know about Egyptian society.

I found it to be a page turner - a good narrative of their rule along with an very readable explanation of how Egyptian society changed over time along with stressing how these women were very much a part of that society rather than exceptions to it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 16, 2022, 02:30:28 PM
Looks cool. Thanks! :w00t:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on February 17, 2022, 06:35:43 AM
Finished Armies of Ancient Italy 753-218 BC, by Esposito. A brief simple straight narrative of Italian military history of the period, with some maps and many color photos of reenactors in period gear. It's not an academic work (there's no discussion of the reliability of sources or similar), but it's a fine simple overview, which certainly fills a niche since descriptions of Italian non-Romans of the period aren't as common as they should be. I've always found the struggles of early Rome fascinating, and the cast of peoples they fought is pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 17, 2022, 07:11:02 AM
Just finished Our Lady of the Nile - it's a novel set in all girls' school for the Rwandan elite in the early 70s. It's a good read which I'd recommend.

It's generally a relatively light high school novel about strict slightly ridiculous nuns, with the girls pushing against the rules and the tropes of board school books - midnight feasts, excursions off the grounds etc. There are stories about the fight between the Mother Superior and a new hippy-ish volunteer French teacher with long hair (Mr Hair) who refuses to get it cut - or the girls sneaking in tasty Rwandan food to avoid having to eat the "Western" food from the canteen of Kraft slices and tinned fish.

But there is a constant sinister undertow of the "majority people" Hutu girls (especially one character who's the daughter of a minister) against the "quota" of Tutsis. There is also a reference of the role white colonisers played in creating or exacerbating the conflict - both in the conversations between Rwandan characters and in the role of an older Frenchman who previously owned a plantation near the school who likes to draw Tutsi girls and has created a form of shrine to Tutsi-ness, which he has "solved" in identifying their more elevated origins than the Hutus.

Sometimes in can be a little on point/didactic on pre-figuring the genocide and the hatred - especially in some of the dialogue, but in general the book balances the two incredibly well - especially for a first novel.

Weirdly I'm on a bit of a post-colonial Francophone run for some reason. It's not been deliberate but interesting anyway.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 02, 2022, 04:09:56 AM
Brandon Sanderson has created a Kickstarter (I think yesterday) and already raised 10.8 million pounds.

I guess he has some rabid fans.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 02, 2022, 04:45:45 AM
He apparently wrote an extra four books with all the extra time he had from not doing conventions due to Covid19.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 02, 2022, 10:13:13 AM
Can anyone recommend his books? I've read literally zero of them, but they are in a genre which I enjoy and need more decent authors.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on March 02, 2022, 10:32:20 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 02, 2022, 10:13:13 AMCan anyone recommend his books? I've read literally zero of them, but they are in a genre which I enjoy and need more decent authors.

I found him a tedious writer who over-described everything.

Read Abercrombie's Age of Madness trilogy instead.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 02, 2022, 12:14:38 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 02, 2022, 10:32:20 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 02, 2022, 10:13:13 AMCan anyone recommend his books? I've read literally zero of them, but they are in a genre which I enjoy and need more decent authors.

I found him a tedious writer who over-described everything.

Read Abercrombie's Age of Madness trilogy instead.

I tend to agree.  I tried getting into his Stormlight series.  I enjoyed the first book, it had interesting characters and world development that was promising.  But then the second book went on for pages and pages of very detailed descriptions of something that was happening but I was not really sure what it was or why it was important or even who it was happening to.  And put the book down.

As I recall Max is a big fan so perhaps he will come along and give you some good recommendations of Sanderson's work.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: garbon on March 02, 2022, 12:27:41 PM
I also dislike his writing style which I think I posted in this thread at some point. A shame as I used to enjoy his podcast about writing.

I've only read the first Mistborn book and found his characters to be weak and inconsistent. Plot was also not great.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 03, 2022, 04:17:13 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 02, 2022, 10:13:13 AMCan anyone recommend his books? I've read literally zero of them, but they are in a genre which I enjoy and need more decent authors.

Depends what you like about the genre. I think his world building is great. His magic systems are intricate and have hard rules to what they can do and what they can't do. He's great at foreshadowing.

There's a lot of buildup in his novels, and sometimes it seems like they're not going anywhere and then BAM, the last 25% is an avalanche of action and plot resolution that you didn't realize had been set up until it happens.

I would start straight with his best work. Read The Way of Kings and see if you like his style. If so, then read his other stuff. If not, don't.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 07, 2022, 03:08:33 AM
Finished The Franco-Prussian War: The German Conquest of France in 1870-1871, by Wawro. A readable telling of the story, and the description of the background to the war is helpful for readers who don't know European 19th century stuff by heart. At the end of the book though, when the author is analyzing the effects of the war on Germany and the events leading up to WW1, things get... not completely thought through. Lazily drawing a straight line from Bismarck to Wilhelm II to automatic German defeat in WW1 is par for the course in this kind of book. What especially irks me though in the discussion of the causes of WW1 is the myopic complete disregard of Eastern European realities and actors, and the implicit assumption that Franco-German relations was the sole deciding factor. The author seems to think that barbarous Eastern Europe cannot possibly have had an impact on events in the sophisticated West. I find this parochialism off-putting, and it suggests to me that the author may have problems grasping complete pictures.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on March 07, 2022, 05:49:12 AM
What would you recommend on the 1870 war? Or the 1866 one, for that matter.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 07, 2022, 07:32:36 AM
Quote from: Maladict on March 07, 2022, 05:49:12 AMWhat would you recommend on the 1870 war? Or the 1866 one, for that matter.

I've only recently started reading on this stuff, so I'm not an expert on the era and take everything with a grain of salt. I think the Wawro book is a perfectly OK introduction/overview. The only other book I've read specifically on this is Barry's The Franco-Prussian War 1870-71 in two volumes (The Campaign of Sedan: Helmuth von Moltke and the Overthrow of the Second Empire and After Sedan: Helmut von Moltke and the Defeat of the Government of National Defence), which I found interesting and which is a lot more detailed when it comes to military matters. Barry is not a professional historian, but I didn't find that to be a problem.

In my to-read pile is The Franco-Prussian War by Howard. An older book (1961) but supposedly a classic... I haven't read anything specific on the 1866 war. Barry has also written on that one, The Road to Königgrätz: Helmuth von Moltke and the Austro-Prussian War 1866, which I'm thinking of picking up.

What I haven't seen, and I'd like to see, is a book going into more detail on logistics and economics, especially how France managed to put new (poor) armies in the field so quickly after the losses of Sedan and Metz.

For anyone interested in uniforms of course there's the usual Ospreys and so forth, but I have to mention Verlag Militaria's Franco-Prussian War 1870/71: Uniforms and Equipment of the German and French Armies, a two volume set. While I don't have this one I have other books by Verlag Militaria, and they are very nice with high quality photos etc. Not cheap, but not unreasonably priced.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on March 07, 2022, 10:40:12 AM
Thanks!  :cool:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 07, 2022, 04:51:06 PM
It's not a military focused history but Alastair Horne's The Fall of Paris: The Siege and the Commune, 1870–1871 is pretty good.

Edit: Obviously it is also very focused on Paris not the rest of the country.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on March 07, 2022, 09:59:26 PM
I read several military history magazines. World War II, Military History and a Military History Quarterly magazine. I've been getting World War II the longest, for quite a few years. Lots of great stories from all sides, mostly Allied side. In reader's letters section there are items from WW2 vets or family members with some great personal stories of all kinds, of battle or other experiences. The other magazines are similar but cover all nations since ancient times. Lots of good articles and insights.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on March 08, 2022, 06:53:03 AM
I used to subscribe to MHQ, damn good magazine.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: KRonn on March 08, 2022, 09:19:45 AM
Quote from: Threviel on March 08, 2022, 06:53:03 AMI used to subscribe to MHQ, damn good magazine.
Yes, a great magazine.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on March 13, 2022, 12:11:12 PM
I've been reading through an anthology of English language poetry and came across this fine heroic couplet:

Had Cain been Scot, God would have changed his doom
Not forced him to wander but confined him home!
  :scots:
     
                           -John Cleveland - The Rebel Scot
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 13, 2022, 04:05:18 PM
What kind of crazy accent rhymes doom with home?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 13, 2022, 04:11:21 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 13, 2022, 04:05:18 PMWhat kind of crazy accent rhymes doom with home?
There is a shift in the 18th century. The classic which comes up all the time is love and proof rhyme until the mid-late 18th century.

I have no idea which way it went. I don't know if we used to pronounce proof "pruv" or if we used to pronounce love "loov" (I hope it's the latter). But I guess this is the same here - I feel like this strengthens my hope and we also used to pronounce home as "hoom".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on March 13, 2022, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 13, 2022, 04:11:21 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 13, 2022, 04:05:18 PMWhat kind of crazy accent rhymes doom with home?
There is a shift in the 18th century. The classic which comes up all the time is love and proof rhyme until the mid-late 18th century.

I have no idea which way it went. I don't know if we used to pronounce proof "pruv" or if we used to pronounce love "loov" (I hope it's the latter). But I guess this is the same here - I feel like this strengthens my hope and we also used to pronounce home as "hoom".

I think it's the other way (although I'm no expert in 17th century English); as "Doom" is sometimes written as Dome or Dom in middle English.  Also in the case that I quoted "Doom" means judgement; its original meaning in old English, rather than inevitable ruin.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 14, 2022, 04:11:40 PM
Sometimes, a book description can cause your brain to do that overused record scratch sound you hear in the trailers for comedy trailers.

QuoteDeep Wheel Orcadia is a remote and failing space station that is struggling for survival as the pace of change threatens to leave the community behind. It is here that Astrid and Darling first meet – Astrid on her way home from art school on Mars and searching for inspiration, and Darling, fleeing a life that never fit, searching for somewhere to hide . . .

The strikingly unusual sci-fi setting is mirrored in the unique form of this verse novel, which is written in the dialect of the Orkney islands, with a parallel English translation. Magical and compellingly readable, Deep Wheel Orcadia is an outstanding literary creation by Orcadian poet and performer Harry Josephine Giles.

 :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on March 15, 2022, 09:09:09 AM
On the Sanderson topic. I am one of his rabid fan.

I have not read enough American sci-fi authors to compare him to any of the more popular one.
I liked Robert Jordan & like Michael J. Sullivan. Hard rules magic system with intricate verbose world building.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josquius on March 15, 2022, 09:23:55 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 13, 2022, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 13, 2022, 04:11:21 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 13, 2022, 04:05:18 PMWhat kind of crazy accent rhymes doom with home?
There is a shift in the 18th century. The classic which comes up all the time is love and proof rhyme until the mid-late 18th century.

I have no idea which way it went. I don't know if we used to pronounce proof "pruv" or if we used to pronounce love "loov" (I hope it's the latter). But I guess this is the same here - I feel like this strengthens my hope and we also used to pronounce home as "hoom".

I think it's the other way (although I'm no expert in 17th century English); as "Doom" is sometimes written as Dome or Dom in middle English.  Also in the case that I quoted "Doom" means judgement; its original meaning in old English, rather than inevitable ruin.

I remember my first weeks at uni I met a monstrously posh guy. He asked where I was from and could only hear Durham as Dome for some reason.

So.... Us? To poshos at least. Or is it the posh? :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 15, 2022, 09:40:47 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 13, 2022, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 13, 2022, 04:11:21 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 13, 2022, 04:05:18 PMWhat kind of crazy accent rhymes doom with home?
There is a shift in the 18th century. The classic which comes up all the time is love and proof rhyme until the mid-late 18th century.

I have no idea which way it went. I don't know if we used to pronounce proof "pruv" or if we used to pronounce love "loov" (I hope it's the latter). But I guess this is the same here - I feel like this strengthens my hope and we also used to pronounce home as "hoom".

I think it's the other way (although I'm no expert in 17th century English); as "Doom" is sometimes written as Dome or Dom in middle English.  Also in the case that I quoted "Doom" means judgement; its original meaning in old English, rather than inevitable ruin.

I would go with the "Dome" pronunciation as well, purely because it's closer to German, and over time the languages have moved from being quite similar in the very early days to widely divergent. Just my gut feeling, though.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 15, 2022, 09:42:14 AM
But it's the less fun pronunciation <_< :contract:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 16, 2022, 02:33:22 AM
Finished Ancient Cities: The Archaeology of Urban Life in the Ancient Near East and Egypt, Greece, and Rome, by Gates. In 425 pages it describes a number of urban sites spanning a period of more than 3,000 years. It covers a lot of ground, so each individual site gets a very brief description.

There's an oddity about the book: it spends a lot of time on non-urban sites, like isolated temples or tombs. In the pharaonic Egypt section they explicitly say (I paraphrase) "few Egyptian cities are well known archaeologically, so we'll describe pyramids and temples in the desert as well", which struck me as bizarre. Pharaonic Egypt gets 40 pages, 30 of which describe non-urban sites. I don't understand the reason to stray from the subject of the book to cover something that is already covered by an immense amount of easily available literature at all levels. And Greece and other places also get isolated sanctuaries and similar described. And, especially for Greek and Roman sites, details regarding temple sculpture are given (something that is also widely available in art history books and what not), while vital stuff like a city's water supply (for instance) maybe gets one sentence. The author seems like he would be more at home a century ago.

A minor oddity is that "X meters square" routinely gets changed to "Xm2". Imposing halls and plazas suddenly sound very small. But you get used to it.

Overall it's not an objectively horrible book, but it doesn't do what it says on the tin. And I must say I have a problem with that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on March 16, 2022, 09:38:40 AM
This popped up in my Twitter feed. I don't know the author, or whether they know their stuff on this topic, but it might be of interest to some here.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMjwlf8akAM2JzM?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 21, 2022, 01:24:32 PM
Finished Women and the French Army during the World Wars 1914-1940, by Orr. The book describes the French view of and utilization of women as employees of the army during the period, which is fairly interesting and something I didn't know any details about. It also, by its nature, illuminates broader military-civilian politics. If, like me, you're not an expert on interwar France, this is also pretty interesting.

One thing that it could do better I think is more clearly defining the exact scope of the book and the reasoning behind it.

One thing that isn't mention at all, not even in the short historical background regarding camp-followers of the early modern period, is women prostitutes. Given the French organization of semi-official army brothels, a practice which spanned the entire period in question, at least mentioning them and why they're not included would be nice. Not including them makes perfect sense, the book can't deal with everything, but reading the book as it is you'd be forgiven for not suspecting that these women even existed. And since the book rightfully deals with the Army's view of different categories of people (conscripts, male civilian employees, women...) mentioning that there existed different kinds of women in the Army's eyes would make sense.

The author has used the French millitary archives for the book. As he points out this means that very few documents are written by women, and even letters from women to the authorities are obviously formal and don't necessarily give insight into what they actually thought about their employer and work situation. But there must exist diaries, private letters etc, that contain precisely that kind of information. Of course they're a much more difficult source to work with, but mentioning why the author has stayed away from them would be nice. Again, limiting the scope makes perfect sense, but mentioning the reasoning behind the limit also makes sense.

While the title suggests an end date in 1940, the book actually gives some interesting information about the rest of the war years, especially about the situation for women working for Vichy, and the way post-WW2 France was a merging of Vichy and Free French (for instance, people could count their years of Vichy service towards their pension, and many Vichy regulations remained in use after the war or were included in new regulations).

Overall, I learned a lot about stuff that rarely gets mentioned in English language books on WW1 or WW2. Nice.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 21, 2022, 03:14:53 PM
Clémentine Vidal-Naquet has worked extensively with private correspondance of women during WWI - but I am unsure whether this correspondance includes women employed by the army.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 22, 2022, 12:00:08 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 16, 2022, 09:38:40 AMThis popped up in my Twitter feed. I don't know the author, or whether they know their stuff on this topic, but it might be of interest to some here.

He (Ryan) tweets daily on the war in Ukraine.  Worth following IMO.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on March 23, 2022, 09:26:54 AM
I finished Elizabeth David's "Italian Food;" which is as much a snapshot of Britain in 1954 (it was published just six months after the end of rationing) as it is a cookbook.  It was a time when the only "Italian" foods most British were familiar with was veal scaloppini and spaghetti with meat sauce; when ice, in any sufficient quantity, could only be gotten from a fishmonger; when ice cream was thought of as an ideal digestif; and when the French were thought to use heavy sauces because their produce was inferior.  (Early versions of "The Joy of Cooking" are similarly a wonderful portrait of Depression era America.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 27, 2022, 09:14:08 PM
Seppukku, did you recommend The Arnachy?  Picked up that and The Plantagenets by Dan Jones.  Started Anarchy, good reading so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on March 27, 2022, 09:26:45 PM
Yes, highly recommend The Anarchy.

I finished it in a little over a week due to how addictive a read it was. It's not the most in-depth of the Company's operations, nor internal workings, but is absolutely essential reading for putting their actions (especially military campaigns) into context of India at the time they operated. I have yet to see anything come anywhere near as close to covering the indigenous side of the story as Dalrymple has.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 28, 2022, 03:43:46 AM
Like I said I just started but I hope pretty soon he situates all the various Indian kingdoms.  Already feeling a little lost there.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 02, 2022, 09:42:57 AM
A bit like cel with film, the news finally prompted me to read Secondhand Time: The Last of the Soviets by Svetlana Alexievich. She's a Belarussian oral historian - although I'm unsure on whether what she writes is non-fiction or fiction - who wrote Boys in Zinc about Afghanistan, an oral history of Soviet women of WW2 and of Chernobyl. Needless to say she's been in and out of exile because of this (she is also, I think, the head of Belarus PEN).

This book is incredible. Her basic perspective is that people from the Soviet system and post-Soviet system are basically from different planets. There are some chapters that are snatches of conversations and recollections - kitchen-talk pre and post collapse of the USSR - while others are an extended single narrative. As you'd expect many are heartbreaking: the woman born in the Gulag then moved into the orphanage system, the woman whose family was made homeless when their flat was sold from under them by gangsters. There's junior party officials and a Tajik woman who tries to help migrant workers in Moscow and other snatches of life.

It's an extraordinary read - all the reviews would probably describe it as polyphonic as it tries to sound out what the Soviet system was, who the people it made and who it left in its aftermath. But it's mainly just these small human stories that lie beneath the big history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 04, 2022, 02:34:26 AM
I'm listening to the audiobook of J. Michael Straczynski's autobiography "Becoming Superman", read by Peter Jurasik. Three chapters in but damn - that's one effed up family he grew up in.  :cry:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 18, 2022, 02:50:35 AM
So, I finished watching The Expanse. Since #6 was the final season and there's currently at least three more books out: are they worth reading if I enjoyed the series?

I understand that the show is more concise, shuffles some events around, and merges some characters together, but that's fine by me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 18, 2022, 06:32:15 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 23, 2022, 09:26:54 AMI finished Elizabeth David's "Italian Food;" which is as much a snapshot of Britain in 1954 (it was published just six months after the end of rationing) as it is a cookbook.  It was a time when the only "Italian" foods most British were familiar with was veal scaloppini and spaghetti with meat sauce; when ice, in any sufficient quantity, could only be gotten from a fishmonger; when ice cream was thought of as an ideal digestif; and when the French were thought to use heavy sauces because their produce was inferior.  (Early versions of "The Joy of Cooking" are similarly a wonderful portrait of Depression era America.)


You would really enjoy "The Art of Cooking" but what we called "The Crisco Cookbook". This was a cookbook my grandmother kept up at the cabin in Northern Quebec. It was published by the Crisco company some time in the 1930s, and it featured everything one could cook with shortening (which was literally everything - it was amazing how much one could use the stuff).

Best part of the book was that it was really two books - one dealt with the art of serving food if one had a servant; the other, how to serve food if one was so unfortunate as to not have a servant.

The part on having a servant went into details, like how to dress one's servant, how to maintain the housewife - servant relationship, etc. All the sort of real, practical knowledge you would expect to get from a company that sells shortening. 

Edit: this cookbook gets a mention in my Aunt's book *Moral Disorder*.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josquius on April 20, 2022, 11:06:07 AM
My girlfriend has gotten a new job and as part of it has to do a training which involves reading a bunch of entire books on second language learning.

In the course of a week, on her phone, she has read through 3 300 page books. It takes me months to get through just one.

She says the way she does it is just reading chapter intros and conclusions and then only reading the stuff that isn't old news to her.

This seems like cheating, and who knows what different slants someone may have on known stuff?

So. I ask ye. Is her behaviour normal? Do you use any other tricks to read more?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on April 20, 2022, 11:38:51 AM
Yes, there's a different technique for reading high volumes of stuff in fields you're familiar with as opposed to doing intense reading of a novel you're fascinated by, or in-depth reading of a complex text you're doing detailed analysis of.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on April 21, 2022, 11:24:10 AM
Yeah, when you are reading over things you are already very familiar with you can take in much larger chunks at a time.  Just reading introductions and conclusions is more risky - she is assuming rather than actually looking over the material. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 22, 2022, 11:48:41 AM
Wolfson Prize shortlist announced:
https://www.wolfsonhistoryprize.org.uk/

Probably going to end up getting almost all of these :blush: I normally find this prize has really interesting shortlists. It's a UK prize so it's for a history book written by a UK resident, but one of the criteria is that it's accessible to a lay person like me. So the list is normally full of books I feel I can read :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on April 22, 2022, 01:31:06 PM
:cheers: Definitely going to pick up a couple of those, Devil-Land and the Ottomans. Thanks!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 22, 2022, 01:51:08 PM
Well that's 4 more books added to my wishlist. :cry:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on April 22, 2022, 04:12:15 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 22, 2022, 11:48:41 AMWolfson Prize shortlist announced:
https://www.wolfsonhistoryprize.org.uk/

Probably going to end up getting almost all of these :blush: I normally find this prize has really interesting shortlists. It's a UK prize so it's for a history book written by a UK resident, but one of the criteria is that it's accessible to a lay person like me. So the list is normally full of books I feel I can read :lol:

Looks interesting - particularly the Ottomans and the one about Witchcraft in the New World.

I have a distant ancestor that was hanged as a witch in New England - and survived!

Mary Webster, or "half-hanged Mary", though the details are pretty murky, is supposedly an ancestor:

https://theworld.org/stories/2017-05-13/17th-century-alleged-witch-inspired-margaret-atwoods-handmaids-tale
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 22, 2022, 04:19:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 22, 2022, 01:51:08 PMWell that's 4 more books added to my wishlist. :cry:
:lol: Yeah I ended up adding most of them to mine. That's the other reason I quite like the prize is there's no history of x or similar criteria. So the shortlist is normally pretty wide-ranging.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Agelastus on April 25, 2022, 09:54:36 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 22, 2022, 11:48:41 AMWolfson Prize shortlist announced:
https://www.wolfsonhistoryprize.org.uk/

Probably going to end up getting almost all of these :blush: I normally find this prize has really interesting shortlists. It's a UK prize so it's for a history book written by a UK resident, but one of the criteria is that it's accessible to a lay person like me. So the list is normally full of books I feel I can read :lol:

I like the typo.

Gaskill book cover - "The Ruin of all Witches: Life and Death in the New World."

Gaskill text - "The Ruin of all Witches: Life and Death of the New World."

Changes the whole meaning of the title.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 25, 2022, 10:02:02 AM
Surprised to see that Nichols Orme is still writing.  Probably will audiobook that one.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on April 30, 2022, 06:47:23 AM
Some bundles for those interested.

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/european-sci-fi-and-fantasy-comics-from-cinebook-books

QuoteWe've partnered with Cinebook, a British publisher that specializes in translating and distributing some of the most acclaimed, craziest, and most gorgeous comics made in all of Europe. This bundle features the renowned science-fantasy epic Valerian and Laureline and other genre-defining works like Orbital, Aldebaran, and its sequel, Bételgeuse, giving you all the mind-bending sci-fi goodness you didn't even know you needed. See how they tell stories from your favorite genre in what's known in Europe as "the 9th art."

All comics in this bundle must be redeemed and downloaded through the izneo app, a digital comic, manga, and webtoon publishing and reading service.


https://www.humblebundle.com/books/tales-space-marine-chapters-2022-black-library-books

QuoteDiscover the fearless exploits of the Adeptus Astartes—the elite Space Marines of the Warhammer 40,000 universe—in this collection of novels & fiction from Black Library! This galaxy-spanning bundle gathers war stories of Chapters and squads from across the Imperium, charged with defending humanity against the relentless forces of Chaos. Explore the grim darkness of the Warhammer 40,000 universe, and support EveryLibrary with your purchase!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on April 30, 2022, 07:25:55 PM
I'm reading Simon Jenkins 'A Short History of Europe', in part motivated because it'll annoy Shelf.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on July 27, 2022, 03:22:52 PM
Reading A Small Town in Germany by Le Carre. I'm about two thirds of the way through and it's so good.

The first few chapters in particular are, I think some of the best I've read by Le Carre. It's set in Bonn during the 60s protests and with the UK trying to enter the Common Market. A junior diplomat goes missing with a load of sensitive documents, so London sends someone to investigates him. After the initial set up there's a series of chapters which is just him talking with one other character in the embassy to re-create this potential spy's life. It's incredibly well done - building up character from all of the different perspectives, with the tonal shifts and subtext of, for example, what starts as a conversation and ends as an interrgation.

I'd read the Karla trilogy, The Spy Who Came in from the Cold and some recent Le Carre but this is really inspiring to properly go through the Cold War era novels. But I really recommend this if anyone's not read it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on July 27, 2022, 04:38:09 PM
Reading Lesser Beasts by Mark Essig - it's a breezy pop history of the pig. Occasionally a bit too breezy, but mostly full of interesting framings, facts, and factoids.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on July 27, 2022, 06:17:30 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 27, 2022, 09:26:45 PMYes, highly recommend The Anarchy.

I finished it in a little over a week due to how addictive a read it was. It's not the most in-depth of the Company's operations, nor internal workings, but is absolutely essential reading for putting their actions (especially military campaigns) into context of India at the time they operated. I have yet to see anything come anywhere near as close to covering the indigenous side of the story as Dalrymple has.

Yes it's a very good read, enjoying reading the footnotes, he's used an impressively wide range of sources.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on July 30, 2022, 05:45:32 AM
Finally finished Adrian Tchaikovsky's Children of Ruin. I posted about Children of Time further up the thread: https://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,124.msg1222535.html#msg1222535

This took me a lot longer to get through (per the post above, I started reading it in 2020 :o ). It's IMHO still an excellent book, but its pacing felt a lot different, leading to me taking long pauses.

It starts with a new generation of explorers from the world of the first book traveling to a distant star system to investigate a signal from what might be another sentient race, and resembling Old Earth standards. They arrive in the system and are faced with an enigmatic octopus race with whose culture and communications are completely alien and make contact difficult. On top of it, the cephalopods regard the new arrivals with suspicion, as they fear they're linked with a cataclysmic bane that nearly destroyed their civilization.

The first 35-45% of the book are fairly slow. We follow the explorers as they try to figure out what's going, interspersed with flashbacks to when the Old Earth terraformers first explored the system, but compared to the previous book it felt to me not as engaging. Around the half point, though, things pick up considerably. More of the system's history is revealed, and it turns into a bit of The Thing or Cosmic Horror for a bit, before finally revealing the full backstory, and going through climax and resolution. This second half was excellent, and I read it in two sittings.

In November, the 3rd book of the series will come out, and I will definitely pick it up. One thing I enjoy about these two books is how Tchaikovsky tries to put the readers into the minds of non-human, alien cultures, and how their development went. It's a refreshing change from mostly humanoid races that more often than not are built around one or a few human cultural traits amped up to 11.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on July 30, 2022, 06:21:25 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 27, 2022, 03:22:52 PMReading A Small Town in Germany by Le Carre. I'm about two thirds of the way through and it's so good.

The first few chapters in particular are, I think some of the best I've read by Le Carre. It's set in Bonn during the 60s protests and with the UK trying to enter the Common Market. A junior diplomat goes missing with a load of sensitive documents, so London sends someone to investigates him. After the initial set up there's a series of chapters which is just him talking with one other character in the embassy to re-create this potential spy's life. It's incredibly well done - building up character from all of the different perspectives, with the tonal shifts and subtext of, for example, what starts as a conversation and ends as an interrgation.

I'd read the Karla trilogy, The Spy Who Came in from the Cold and some recent Le Carre but this is really inspiring to properly go through the Cold War era novels. But I really recommend this if anyone's not read it.

I read a Le Carre or two a year but don't think I've tried this one yet. Outside of the Karla trilogy, A Perfect Gentleman is probably my favourite
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on August 01, 2022, 05:30:43 PM
Quote from: mongers on July 27, 2022, 06:17:30 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 27, 2022, 09:26:45 PMYes, highly recommend The Anarchy.

I finished it in a little over a week due to how addictive a read it was. It's not the most in-depth of the Company's operations, nor internal workings, but is absolutely essential reading for putting their actions (especially military campaigns) into context of India at the time they operated. I have yet to see anything come anywhere near as close to covering the indigenous side of the story as Dalrymple has.

Yes it's a very good read, enjoying reading the footnotes, he's used an impressively wide range of sources.

:cheers:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on August 01, 2022, 06:30:44 PM
Just finished All the Lies They Did Not Tell (https://www.amazon.com/All-Lies-They-Did-Tell-ebook/dp/B09KX67MJ7) by Pablo Trincia.  I was aware that there had been a Satanic Panic in the US (the McMartin Daycare case).  I knew that the panic was based on the work of a Canadian quack psychiatrist and his patient (later wife) but was unaware that the whole thing had spread to Europe, with even worse results than in the US.  This book is about the alleged Satanic Rituals being carried out by an Italian priest and an ever-widening circle of families.

What makes the story so bizarre is the control one woman, a child psychologist, had over the proceedings.  She somehow convinced a gullible judge that "children never lie," and, based on "confessions" that the children made after months away from their families and in the psychologist's care, had nineteen children removed from twelve families. She saw the trial and conviction of several of the parents and drove the priest to an early grave.  Even after all of the convictions were overturned the state refused to return the children, arguing that they were happy in their new homes.  The biological parents were forbidden, under threat of imprisonment, to contact their children by any means until they were eighteen.  Yes, even though everyone was cleared, the state (in the form of this child psychologist) determined that the parents should permanently lose custody of the children, and the birth parents had (at least at that time, the mid-1990s) no standing to appeal custody decisions of the child welfare authorities.

It was a bizarre and depressing story throughout, and the extent to which the courts entertained those bits of child testimony that were not ludicrously impossible (like the parents having dug up children's graves in the local cemetery when the cemetery had clearly not been disturbed) but not allowing the absurd bits to impugn the credibility of the children was astonishing.  It does put the QANON insanity in a new light, though.  QANON is just a repackaging of these old and thoroughly discredited panics.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 01, 2022, 07:19:08 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 02, 2022, 09:42:57 AMA bit like cel with film, the news finally prompted me to read Secondhand Time: The Last of the Soviets by Svetlana Alexievich. She's a Belarussian oral historian - although I'm unsure on whether what she writes is non-fiction or fiction - who wrote Boys in Zinc about Afghanistan, an oral history of Soviet women of WW2 and of Chernobyl. Needless to say she's been in and out of exile because of this (she is also, I think, the head of Belarus PEN).

This book is incredible. Her basic perspective is that people from the Soviet system and post-Soviet system are basically from different planets. There are some chapters that are snatches of conversations and recollections - kitchen-talk pre and post collapse of the USSR - while others are an extended single narrative. As you'd expect many are heartbreaking: the woman born in the Gulag then moved into the orphanage system, the woman whose family was made homeless when their flat was sold from under them by gangsters. There's junior party officials and a Tajik woman who tries to help migrant workers in Moscow and other snatches of life.

It's an extraordinary read - all the reviews would probably describe it as polyphonic as it tries to sound out what the Soviet system was, who the people it made and who it left in its aftermath. But it's mainly just these small human stories that lie beneath the big history.
This book is very depressing.  Dguller and Solmyr's life must have sucked.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 07, 2022, 03:59:01 AM
Becky Chambers - The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet

In the future: mankind has split into two main factions, the rich Solans who fled Earth's collapse to new colonies on Mars, and the Exodans, a migrant fleet who took to the stars. The sides have uneasily reconciled and are junior partners in the larger galactic community (GC). The GC have signed a treaty with the Teromi Ka, one of the Teromi clans that are constantly fighting in shifting alliances around the galaxy's core. The GC hope to secure a permanent foothold and access to near endless fuel resources.

Space travel is mostly conducted through gateways created by tunneling ships that basically create stable wormholes for ships to travel quickly between worlds.

The book follows the human and alien crew of the tunneling ship Wayfarer who are hired to create the new gateway to the  Teromi Ka and their one year journey to the construction site.

I enjoyed this book a great deal, but I assume it will not appeal to most Languishites.

If you like grimdark settings, high stakes action, intrigue, betrayal, inter-personal conflict, and steadily escalating plots that lead to a huge climax - you won't find any of those here.

It's a mixture of road trip and slice of life, largely episodic, chronicling the journey. The characters are quirky, positive, friendly, supportive of each other, all the time, and it's actually quite saccharine; but it's something I needed, I guess. :D There might be some smaller or larger crises along the way but they all end up fine. It does provide a fair bit of world building, though.

It occasionally brings up some darker themes. E.g. there's a human sect who refuse any modern medicine/gene therapies and try to live as natural - think cavemen - as possible on a recovering Earth. But there's another human faction who have created a society targeted genetic design, creating a dispossessed  underclass of people designed for menial tasks in the process - this informs the backstory of two characters, but isn't covered in huge depth.

Overall it was a very pleasant read. I'd recommend it to people looking for a more positive reading experience, something more akin to slipping into a warm bath or wrapping yourself up in a blanket. It's good escapism that overall doesn't create a lot of emotional turmoil. And I'm actually looking forward to reading the next three books in the series. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on August 08, 2022, 06:35:17 PM
Thinking about reading a WW2 memoir from the German side.  Something written by either an enlisted man or junior officer, translated into English preferably available on Kindle.  Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 08, 2022, 11:29:09 PM
I own Panzer Commander, the memoirs of Hans von Luck.  He ended up a general commanding 7th Panzer at the end of the war but obviously started out...not a general.

Good section on his time in a Russian POW camp.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on August 09, 2022, 08:37:14 AM
Trying to find anything in Kindle is going to be tough - the publishers came out with these long before digital books, so the digitalization process is literally scanning them in an OCR scanned and then editing.  That's expensive.

Soldat is a good book on the way a lower-level German NCO and then officer saw the war.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on August 15, 2022, 09:39:09 AM
Finshed SPQR by Mary Beard and The Bright Ages by Matthew Gabriele & David M. Perry, both of which I liked. I haven't read much popular history recently, and in some ways the two books are fairly similar in terms of approach and tone.

Both books build pretty solid narratives, tracing the cultural, social, and institutional developments of their subjects (Rome from founding to Caracella's grant of universal Roman citizenship and the European "Dark Ages" respectively). Solid list of references at the end as well.

Both books do - to my eyes - credible jobs. Even better, I got them from the library.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on August 15, 2022, 11:31:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 08, 2022, 06:35:17 PMThinking about reading a WW2 memoir from the German side.  Something written by either an enlisted man or junior officer, translated into English preferably available on Kindle.  Any suggestions?

Not sure if it quite fits your spec but Robert Kershaw has a couple of well-reviewed WW2 books from a German eye-witness POV. One on Barborrosa and one that has just come out about Dunkirk and the invasion of France.

I also spotted a memoire by a guy called Hans Hoeller which sounds like waht you are after. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on August 26, 2022, 06:19:32 AM
Just stopped reading a book because of the breathtaking arrogance displayed in the author's introduction. :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 26, 2022, 07:57:24 AM
Name and shame :o

Anyone know any good books about Robert Maxwell? Just been listening to John Sweeney talking about him and it sounds incredible but also a centre left media baron who was even more malign than Rupert Murdoch, his great rival :huh:

Edit: Plus even the bare outline of his life sounds incredible.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on August 26, 2022, 08:08:59 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 26, 2022, 07:57:24 AMName and shame :o
....
snip

Nothing interesting just a recent book about woodland/wildlife signs, weather forecasting and so on, but reading the intro he came across as boasting of special/superhuman powers, though I'm probably being unfair on him.

It's this one.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38483559-wild-signs-and-star-paths
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 26, 2022, 09:05:54 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 26, 2022, 07:57:24 AMName and shame

David Graeber, world class in that department.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 27, 2022, 01:22:38 AM
Finished the first two books of The Expanse (Leviathan Wakes, Caliban's War).

Really enjoyed them and will dive into book 3 straight away.

It was interesting to see the differences to the show. There's obvious things like the physical appearances of belters and inners not being as markedly different, changing some characters (e.g. Amos in the books is middle aged), or switching some plot details.

What I did not expect was that the TV show added more character drama and overall runtime. The first two books cover roughly the first two and a half seasons. The audio books run ca. 40 hours at 1x speed, while the show has 30 episodes covering that time span - a rather unusual relation; movies or TV shows tend to be noticeably shorter than books. I read my fair share of movie novelizations in the 80s when we didn't have a VCR, so a 2 hour movie would often have a 200-300 pages book which you would decidedly NOT read in 2 hours, let alone if you were to read it out loud like an audio book.

For the most part it's because the show doesn't limit itself to the viewpoint characters. The first book is entirely written from Holden's and Miller's perspectives. Book two has the viewpoints of Holden, Avasarala, Bobby, and Prax. In the TV show you get a wider view - e.g. the whole treason/mutiny plot between Nguyen and Souther, more drama in getting the Martians on board for the battle at Io, or more scenes with Earth government during the timeline of book 1, introducing Avasarala much earlier than in the novel (I loved her in the series, but I love her even more in the books, I think :D ). And they did other stuff, like greatly expanding the role of Cotyar, or adding the spy subplot with Elias Toufexis (who was in the running for the role of Amos, but they still wanted him on the show, so he got this role and later did mo-cap work).

Also, I didn't expect there to be more character drama in the show than in the books. E.g. at the start, there's a lot of uncertainty/friction between the crew of the Roci (Alex, Holden, Naomi, Amos) in the TV show that slowly develops into a "family" in later seasons. In the books that friction is almost completely absent and they all accept Holden as de facto captain from the get go. Or the subplot around Naomi not destroying the protomolecule on the show that didn't exist in the books (where Holden handed over the sample to Fred Jones freely). There's several such instances.

Weirdly, that makes some characters on the show a bit more complex than in the books; that said it might be because I watched the show first and it therefore forms my "baseline."

I've been listening to some of the podcasts of Wes Chatham (Amos) and Ty Franck (half of James A. Corey). These guys are lovely movie and sci-fi nerds. I knew the story grew out of an RPG setting that Ty Franck was running. What I didn't know was that it was one of those "play by post" things ca. 20 years ago that were popular on forums; essentially (and ideally) they would be cooperative writing projects. Hell, it existed in the EU2 AAR forums, in the form of the Free Company stories run by Lord Durham around the time Franck was running his campaign (the main characters on the show come from that game, and so do some of the early plots and events). :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on August 27, 2022, 05:30:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 27, 2022, 01:22:38 AMFinished the first two books of The Expanse (Leviathan Wakes, Caliban's War).
....
snip
....
I've been listening to some of the podcasts of Wes Chatham (Amos) and Ty Franck (half of James A. Corey). These guys are lovely movie and sci-fi nerds. I knew the story grew out of an RPG setting that Ty Franck was running. What I didn't know was that it was one of those "play by post" things ca. 20 years ago that were popular on forums; essentially (and ideally) they would be cooperative writing projects. Hell, it existed in the EU2 AAR forums, in the form of the Free Company stories run by Lord Durham around the time Franck was running his campaign (the main characters on the show come from that game, and so do some of the early plots and events). :lol:

Very interesting, Syt.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 30, 2022, 12:10:55 PM
Almost half way through Book 3 of The Expanse.

Rather surprised how much the characters aboard the Behemoth have been shuffled around (esp. Drummer, Ashford, Samara Rosenberg, Michion Pa and Bull. I really liked Klaes Ashford in the TV show (a grizzled old pirate with the wisdom of age, trying to better himself and find a place in the new political realities), so was a bit sad to see him being much less awesome in the book so far :cry: :lol:

I also realize that I still don't care much for the Cassandra revenge plot (in the show, they redeem her character in later seasons), though the book does give better inside into her personality, which I appreciate. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on August 30, 2022, 12:24:42 PM
Started Mark Mazower's new book on the Greek Revolution. It's pretty good and interesting so far.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 30, 2022, 12:52:43 PM
Quote from: Maladict on August 30, 2022, 12:24:42 PMStarted Mark Mazower's new book on the Greek Revolution. It's pretty good and interesting so far.
I've got that on my list so be interested in your take.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on August 30, 2022, 03:23:58 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 30, 2022, 12:52:43 PM
Quote from: Maladict on August 30, 2022, 12:24:42 PMStarted Mark Mazower's new book on the Greek Revolution. It's pretty good and interesting so far.
I've got that on my list so be interested in your take.

Mazower has enough credit with me to insta-buy if the subject is interesting. The Salonica book is fantastic.

So if you're interested in the topic I'd say go for it, there's not much of an alternative anyway afaik. 

The one thing lacking so far is the Ottoman perspective, but it's early days.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 31, 2022, 01:30:40 AM
Finished The First World War and the End of the Habsburg Monarchy, by Rauchensteiner. It tells the story of the state of Austria-Hungary before and during WW1. At 1,000+ pages it manages to deal in some detail with many aspects of this. For clarity, it is NOT a social history, and it is NOT a collection of statistics (even if there are many numbers given in the text, there are very few big tables of data), and it is NOT a detailed description of weapon systems and similar. I'd recommend it to anyone with a serious interest in WW1 or Austria-Hungary.

There are almost no maps, which doesn't matter to me personally since I normally don't check maps while reading military history, and these days of course the internet exists. But I understand that some people feel differently.

Many quotes from sources that are originally in English are given in German, which is a bit jarring. Stuff like J.F.C. Fuller books, articles in US newspapers by Teddy Roosevelt, and letters to Washington from the US ambassador in Vienna jump off the page in German. I suppose the translator marked these with "don't translate; use original English source" and then nothing happened before it went to print.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: viper37 on August 31, 2022, 11:30:45 PM
Viking Blood and Blade Saga

Another series about Vikings.  This time, the author has done some homework. :)

There are four books in the series.  It ain't a masterpiece like the Anglo Saxon Chronicles the author compares it too, but it's a quite enjoyable read.

The year 865.  Legendary Viking Ragnar Lothbrook has been killed by Aella and his sons have vowed revenge on England.  A young Viking warrior by the given name of Hundr, a dog's name in old norse arrives from the East to seek a name from himself.

It's historical fiction.  The fictional hero crosses path with Ivar the Boneless, Bjorn Ironside and other famous Viking warriors.  The culture is appropriately represented, as far as I know, with maybe a few exceptions that can be forgiven.  You get a real feeling that Vikings have more than one god and they have an entire warrior caste dedicated to plundering and warfare, honoring their gods this way.

I highly recommend this series for casual reading. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on September 05, 2022, 08:37:18 PM
Started reading God's Shadow: Sultan Selim, His Ottoman Empire, and the Making of the Modern World by Alan Mikhail.

I haven't read much on the topic, and the first few chapters were pretty interesting. But then Mikhail devotes an entire chapter (or more) to how Christopher Columbus was motivated by anti-Muslim sentiment, and that this anti-Muslim sentiment provided the framework for how the West interacted with the peoples of the New World and outside of Europe in general.

It's an interesting perspective, but in my reading Mikhail doesn't do much to persuade the reader - he merely states it as a fact and muses a bit about it. So I put the book down.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 05, 2022, 08:56:41 PM
I think you made the correct decision. When it came out, I was lured in by the title, but held off purchase after reading a pretty damning review of it:

https://oajournals.fupress.net/index.php/cromohs/debate
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on September 05, 2022, 09:32:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 27, 2022, 01:22:38 AMFinished the first two books of The Expanse (Leviathan Wakes, Caliban's War).

Really enjoyed them and will dive into book 3 straight away.

It was interesting to see the differences to the show. There's obvious things like the physical appearances of belters and inners not being as markedly different, changing some characters (e.g. Amos in the books is middle aged), or switching some plot details.

What I did not expect was that the TV show added more character drama and overall runtime. The first two books cover roughly the first two and a half seasons. The audio books run ca. 40 hours at 1x speed, while the show has 30 episodes covering that time span - a rather unusual relation; movies or TV shows tend to be noticeably shorter than books. I read my fair share of movie novelizations in the 80s when we didn't have a VCR, so a 2 hour movie would often have a 200-300 pages book which you would decidedly NOT read in 2 hours, let alone if you were to read it out loud like an audio book.

For the most part it's because the show doesn't limit itself to the viewpoint characters. The first book is entirely written from Holden's and Miller's perspectives. Book two has the viewpoints of Holden, Avasarala, Bobby, and Prax. In the TV show you get a wider view - e.g. the whole treason/mutiny plot between Nguyen and Souther, more drama in getting the Martians on board for the battle at Io, or more scenes with Earth government during the timeline of book 1, introducing Avasarala much earlier than in the novel (I loved her in the series, but I love her even more in the books, I think :D ). And they did other stuff, like greatly expanding the role of Cotyar, or adding the spy subplot with Elias Toufexis (who was in the running for the role of Amos, but they still wanted him on the show, so he got this role and later did mo-cap work).

Also, I didn't expect there to be more character drama in the show than in the books. E.g. at the start, there's a lot of uncertainty/friction between the crew of the Roci (Alex, Holden, Naomi, Amos) in the TV show that slowly develops into a "family" in later seasons. In the books that friction is almost completely absent and they all accept Holden as de facto captain from the get go. Or the subplot around Naomi not destroying the protomolecule on the show that didn't exist in the books (where Holden handed over the sample to Fred Jones freely). There's several such instances.

Weirdly, that makes some characters on the show a bit more complex than in the books; that said it might be because I watched the show first and it therefore forms my "baseline."

I've been listening to some of the podcasts of Wes Chatham (Amos) and Ty Franck (half of James A. Corey). These guys are lovely movie and sci-fi nerds. I knew the story grew out of an RPG setting that Ty Franck was running. What I didn't know was that it was one of those "play by post" things ca. 20 years ago that were popular on forums; essentially (and ideally) they would be cooperative writing projects. Hell, it existed in the EU2 AAR forums, in the form of the Free Company stories run by Lord Durham around the time Franck was running his campaign (the main characters on the show come from that game, and so do some of the early plots and events). :lol:

Amos in the show is middle aged. Wes Chatham is 43 years old.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 05, 2022, 10:25:47 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 05, 2022, 08:37:18 PMI haven't read much on the topic, and the first few chapters were pretty interesting. But then Mikhail devotes an entire chapter (or more) to how Christopher Columbus was motivated by anti-Muslim sentiment, and that this anti-Muslim sentiment provided the framework for how the West interacted with the peoples of the New World and outside of Europe in general.

Can you elaborate a bit?  It's common knowledge that part of the motivation for Columbus' journeys was to cut the Muslim middleman out of the spice trade, but you seem to be suggesting more personal to it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 06, 2022, 01:11:59 AM
Quote from: Jacob on September 05, 2022, 08:37:18 PMStarted reading God's Shadow: Sultan Selim, His Ottoman Empire, and the Making of the Modern World by Alan Mikhail.

I haven't read much on the topic, and the first few chapters were pretty interesting. But then Mikhail devotes an entire chapter (or more) to how Christopher Columbus was motivated by anti-Muslim sentiment, and that this anti-Muslim sentiment provided the framework for how the West interacted with the peoples of the New World and outside of Europe in general.

It's an interesting perspective, but in my reading Mikhail doesn't do much to persuade the reader - he merely states it as a fact and muses a bit about it. So I put the book down.

*fingerguns temple* Put it down? :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 06, 2022, 01:42:57 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 05, 2022, 09:32:32 PMAmos in the show is middle aged. Wes Chatham is 43 years old.

38 in season 1. ;) But point taken. I guess what throws me off is that he's described as balding in the book, and Wes looks a fair bit younger than his age. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on September 06, 2022, 09:13:14 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 05, 2022, 10:25:47 PMCan you elaborate a bit?  It's common knowledge that part of the motivation for Columbus' journeys was to cut the Muslim middleman out of the spice trade, but you seem to be suggesting more personal to it.

Europeans were mean to the First Nations of the New World because Europeans hated Muslims, and since those First Nations were brown and non-Christians they got the Muslim treatment.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on September 06, 2022, 09:15:02 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 06, 2022, 01:11:59 AM*fingerguns temple* Put it down? :unsure:

I've never been to a fingerguns temple, no. Whereever you choose to worship is fine by me, as long as you don't harm anyone.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on September 06, 2022, 09:31:41 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 05, 2022, 08:56:41 PMI think you made the correct decision. When it came out, I was lured in by the title, but held off purchase after reading a pretty damning review of it:

https://oajournals.fupress.net/index.php/cromohs/debate

Yikes!

But yeah, that rings true to me after reading the first handful of chapters.

Luckily I got it from the library, so I don't feel too bad.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on September 06, 2022, 11:04:37 AM
Oh, yeah. The review of Mikhail made the rounds as being an increasingly rare harsh takedown within academic circles - I used it in my graduate seminar (we had read Mikhail on the grain trade in 18th c. Egypt).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Habbaku on September 06, 2022, 11:19:37 AM
How do you feel about that development (it being rarer), Oex?

From my history-nerd-that-reads-academic-works-but-isn't-otherwise-involved perspective, I'd want them to be rarer only because the field has matured to the point where it's no longer necessary. I'm hoping it's not mere reluctance to tear down shoddy work.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on September 06, 2022, 11:47:02 AM
Yeah I'm curious too Oex? Is it thought to be excessively harsh where it shouldn't be, or is it more of a "good thing that we still maintain standards, we should do more of this"?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on September 06, 2022, 11:57:29 AM
I am a bit ambivalent about it, to be honest.

First, the critique by Subrahmanyan & Co. of Mikhail isn't a true academic critique, in the sense that they reacted to the attention Mikhail's book got in the non-specialized press. This is a result of the divorce between academic books, being read by fewer and fewer readers, and the trade books, that benefit from press agents etc. In a sense, they were acting from the fear that a bad book may make a durable impression.

Now, in academic journals, there are indeed fewer and fewer "take-downs". On the one hand, I agree with you if this means that  old quarrels between "schools" or "camps", as existed before, are no longer featured. These often were wars of ego, rather than conflicts of interpretation.

However, there *were* often conflicts of interpretation - and these deserved to be debated, even if somewhat harshly at times, if only to make some of the opposing points stand out. And they still deserve to be debated. Are they? I am not sure. Book reviews are often polite affairs, and it's not always there that you get harsh words - often, you find that in review essays. But review essays are no longer very much valued by tenure and promotion committees, and they take an insane amount of time (and prudence) during which you may as well have published two or three articles on your own research. The pressures to publish have also had other impacts that would otherwise warrant careful consideration from readers: pressures to cut corners, more and more work to absorb quickly, which in turn offer fewer and fewer insights (and thus, less to critique); tenure has become a lot more difficult, and thus, reviewers often tend to look with a lot more benevolence what comes their way (because the stakes are perceived as being so high).

In short, there are a few concerning developments - at least to me. They mostly concern "ordinary critique" within the field, and not the sort of full-on take down you wondered about, so in a way, I agree with you. It's a good thing they are mostly gone. But I wish we could perhaps take a step back, and think about the sorts of fault lines we necessarily create within any discipline. What do we disagree on, and why?

The general trends of our times have also had their impact. I think we have collectively - inside academia and out - lost a bit of our skills for critique; it seems to oscillate wildly between unhinged and polite cough, with very little in between. And critique has become, at least in certain topics, embedded not just in politics, as before, but in morals. I think it was easier to dissociate one's politics from one's own being: the critique of the historiography of "New Capitalism History", which often had very little time for "Capitalism", found itself quickly entangled with issues of slavery, in a four way matrix between assholes who had a point, nice people who were mistaken, assholes who were mistaken, and nice people who had a point...  But that's probably an old problem.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on September 06, 2022, 12:13:40 PM
Interesting - on the embedded in politics and morality I occasionally see a glimpse of what's happening on the Medievalists internet and good lord. It's a lot of stuff and complicated, difficult for someone from the outside to try and untangle that four way matrix of what's a fair or interesting point, what's just dick-ish behaviour etc.

I wonder if it perhaps becomes more fraught the less directly connected it is to our current politics (and morals).

Interesting how much overlaps with what I've read from writers about the decline of literary criticism and criticism as a skill (but there - I also suspect tastes and what readers want from fiction, including "literary" fiction, is shifting).
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 06, 2022, 10:43:43 PM
I'm reminded of the story of a colleague who responded to a vicious take down of Lawrence Stone by Hugh Trevor Roper by saying "Stone may be no historian, but Trevor-Roper is no gentleman."

(Nb I quite like Stone's book on the ECW when I read it years ago)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 07, 2022, 07:02:50 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 06, 2022, 11:57:29 AMI am a bit ambivalent about it, to be honest.

First, the critique by Subrahmanyan & Co. of Mikhail isn't a true academic critique, in the sense that they reacted to the attention Mikhail's book got in the non-specialized press. This is a result of the divorce between academic books, being read by fewer and fewer readers, and the trade books, that benefit from press agents etc. In a sense, they were acting from the fear that a bad book may make a durable impression.

Now, in academic journals, there are indeed fewer and fewer "take-downs". On the one hand, I agree with you if this means that  old quarrels between "schools" or "camps", as existed before, are no longer featured. These often were wars of ego, rather than conflicts of interpretation.

However, there *were* often conflicts of interpretation - and these deserved to be debated, even if somewhat harshly at times, if only to make some of the opposing points stand out. And they still deserve to be debated. Are they? I am not sure. Book reviews are often polite affairs, and it's not always there that you get harsh words - often, you find that in review essays. But review essays are no longer very much valued by tenure and promotion committees, and they take an insane amount of time (and prudence) during which you may as well have published two or three articles on your own research. The pressures to publish have also had other impacts that would otherwise warrant careful consideration from readers: pressures to cut corners, more and more work to absorb quickly, which in turn offer fewer and fewer insights (and thus, less to critique); tenure has become a lot more difficult, and thus, reviewers often tend to look with a lot more benevolence what comes their way (because the stakes are perceived as being so high).

In short, there are a few concerning developments - at least to me. They mostly concern "ordinary critique" within the field, and not the sort of full-on take down you wondered about, so in a way, I agree with you. It's a good thing they are mostly gone. But I wish we could perhaps take a step back, and think about the sorts of fault lines we necessarily create within any discipline. What do we disagree on, and why?

The general trends of our times have also had their impact. I think we have collectively - inside academia and out - lost a bit of our skills for critique; it seems to oscillate wildly between unhinged and polite cough, with very little in between. And critique has become, at least in certain topics, embedded not just in politics, as before, but in morals. I think it was easier to dissociate one's politics from one's own being: the critique of the historiography of "New Capitalism History", which often had very little time for "Capitalism", found itself quickly entangled with issues of slavery, in a four way matrix between assholes who had a point, nice people who were mistaken, assholes who were mistaken, and nice people who had a point...  But that's probably an old problem.

Somewhat of a tangent, but part of it is that knowledge has become an industry. As with all industry the emphasis then is on measurable productivity, rather than ideas and deep thought and analysis.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 08, 2022, 08:23:28 AM
Orlando Figes is coming out with a new book:

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/59808056-the-story-of-russia

QuoteFrom "the great storyteller of Russian history" (Financial Times), a brilliant account of the national mythologies and imperial ideologies that have shaped Russia's past and politics—essential reading for understanding the country today

The Story of Russia is a fresh approach to the thousand years of Russia's history, concerned as much with the ideas that have shaped how Russians think about their past as it is with the events and personalities comprising it. No other country has reimagined its own story so often, in a perpetual effort to stay in step with the shifts of ruling ideologies.

From the founding of Kievan Rus in the first millennium to Putin's war against Ukraine, Orlando Figes explores the ideas that have guided Russia's actions throughout its long and troubled existence. Whether he's describing the crowning of Ivan the Terrible in a candlelit cathedral or the dramatic upheaval of the peasant revolution, he reveals the impulses, often unappreciated or misunderstood by foreigners, that have driven Russian history: the medieval myth of Mother Russia's holy mission to the world; the imperial tendency toward autocratic rule; the popular belief in a paternal tsar dispensing truth and justice; the cult of sacrifice rooted in the idea of the "Russian soul"; and always, the nationalist myth of Russia's unjust treatment by the West.

How the Russians came to tell their story and to revise it so often as they went along is not only a vital aspect of their history; it is also our best means of understanding how the country thinks and acts today. Based on a lifetime of scholarship and enthrallingly written, The Story of Russia is quintessential Figes: sweeping, revelatory, and masterful.

Here's The Grauniad's review: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/sep/01/the-story-of-russia-by-orlando-figes-review-what-putin-sees-in-the-past

Figes' prvious books include A People's Tragedy, a tome about the Russian Revolution 1891-1924, and The Crimean War a tome about the Crimean War, both sit at 800-1000 pages and also on my shelf, unfortunately still unread. -_-
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 08, 2022, 08:26:59 AM
Meanwhile I'm giving Beevor's World War Two another whirl. It's more narrative than deep analysis, but that's fine for me for the Asian theater coverage, because I'm not too familiar with events there, beyond the broad strokes and the post-Pearl Harbor campaigns.

Though the section of the pre-1939 fighting in China between Nationalists, Reds and Japanese is hard to follow without looking at a map. The place names and persons, besides the "biggest" are not exactly household names for me.  :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on September 08, 2022, 08:33:54 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 08, 2022, 08:26:59 AMThough the section of the pre-1939 fighting in China between Nationalists, Reds and Japanese is hard to follow without looking at a map. The place names and persons, besides the "biggest" are not exactly household names for me.  :blush:
If you're interested and want a similar narrative on the war in China I realy recommend Rana Mitter's book on it. And it has maps and a list of major figures at the front :blush:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 08, 2022, 08:42:23 AM
Thanks. :) I also have John Toland's The Rising Sun still sitting in my backlog. It's not exactly a small book, and by now over 50 years old, but it was recommended to me as a well readable account from the Japanese point of view that uses a lot of primary sources research.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on September 08, 2022, 05:02:44 PM
If you are interested in a highly analytical view of the Sino-Japanese war in China (up to Dec 1941),  A Gathering Darkness (https://www.amazon.com/Gathering-Darkness-Pacific-1921-1942-Perspectives-dp-0842051538/dp/0842051538/ref=mt_other?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=) by HP Willmott and Haruo Tohmatsu is highly recommended.  Notable also for the insane Kindle price that I doubt a single person has paid.  The paperback price is high but worth it, especially for the interaction of the Japanese domestic political situation and the decisions made about the war.  Has some Chinese domestic political stuff I'd never seen before, as well.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on September 08, 2022, 05:04:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 08, 2022, 08:42:23 AMThanks. :) I also have John Toland's The Rising Sun still sitting in my backlog. It's not exactly a small book, and by now over 50 years old, but it was recommended to me as a well readable account from the Japanese point of view that uses a lot of primary sources research.

Beware of reading too much into Toland, though.  He used Japanese primary sources, but many of those sources have been discredited in the meantime by Japanese scholars.  He also wrote before most of the revelations about US codebreaking.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on September 08, 2022, 06:00:43 PM
The Cundill History Prize has released its long list this week:

In the Forest of No Joy: The Congo-Océan Railroad and the Tragedy of French Colonialism
    J.P. Daughton (W. W. Norton & Company)

Cuba
    Ada Ferrer (Scribner)

The Perils of Interpreting: The Extraordinary Lives of Two Translators Between Qing China and the British Empire
    Henrietta Harrison (Princeton University Press)

Bad Mexicans: Race, Empire, and Revolution in the Borderlands
    Kelly Lytle Hernández (W. W. Norton & Company)

Aftermath: Life in the Fallout of the Third Reich
    Harald Jähner (Ebury, PRH)

The Greek Revolution: 1821 and the Making of Modern Europe
    Mark Mazower (Penguin Press)

All That She Carried: The Journey of Ashley's Sack, a Black Family Keepsake
    Tiya Miles (Random House)

The Chinese Question: The Gold Rushes and Global Politics
   Mae Ngai (W. W. Norton & Company)

Not One Inch: America, Russia, and the Making of Post-Cold War Stalemate
    M.E. Sarotte (Yale University Press)

Kingdom of Characters: A Tale of Language, Obsession, and Genius in Modern China
    Jing Tsu (Allen Lane)

Collapse: The Fall of the Soviet Union
    Vladislav M. Zubok (Yale University Press)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on September 16, 2022, 08:00:32 AM
Just bought (not read yet) The Backstreets which has just come out in the UK.

I believe it's the first English translation of a novel from Xinjian, by Perhat Tursun who is a Uyghur writer who has, since 2018, been detained by Chinese authorities and reportedly serving a 16 year prison sentence.

It's had comparisons with Camus - or perhaps an Algerian Camus (like Kamel Daoud's The Meursault Investigation). Translated into English by a professor and anonymous cotranslator who disappeared in 2017 and is presumed to be in the re-education camp system.

Thought it might be of interest to some.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on September 23, 2022, 06:14:19 AM
RIP Hilary Mantel :(

I've been thinking a lot in the last couple of weeks about her incredible LRB essay from when Kate and William got married, Royal Bodies:
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v35/n04/hilary-mantel/royal-bodies
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 23, 2022, 06:15:34 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 08, 2022, 05:04:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 08, 2022, 08:42:23 AMThanks. :) I also have John Toland's The Rising Sun still sitting in my backlog. It's not exactly a small book, and by now over 50 years old, but it was recommended to me as a well readable account from the Japanese point of view that uses a lot of primary sources research.

Beware of reading too much into Toland, though.  He used Japanese primary sources, but many of those sources have been discredited in the meantime by Japanese scholars.  He also wrote before most of the revelations about US codebreaking.

Thanks for the warning! :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 23, 2022, 06:18:39 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 08, 2022, 05:02:44 PMIf you are interested in a highly analytical view of the Sino-Japanese war in China (up to Dec 1941),  A Gathering Darkness (https://www.amazon.com/Gathering-Darkness-Pacific-1921-1942-Perspectives-dp-0842051538/dp/0842051538/ref=mt_other?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=) by HP Willmott and Haruo Tohmatsu is highly recommended.  Notable also for the insane Kindle price that I doubt a single person has paid.  The paperback price is high but worth it, especially for the interaction of the Japanese domestic political situation and the decisions made about the war.  Has some Chinese domestic political stuff I'd never seen before, as well.

For a 196 page book that's a steep price :o I like buying my non-fiction books, but I may keep an eye out for it at libraries ... :unsure:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Maladict on September 23, 2022, 08:30:24 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 23, 2022, 06:14:19 AMRIP Hilary Mantel :(

I've been thinking a lot in the last couple of weeks about her incredible LRB essay from when Kate and William got married, Royal Bodies:
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v35/n04/hilary-mantel/royal-bodies

 :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 23, 2022, 02:29:26 PM
I've been reading some of the Norton Anthology of American Literature.  A number of the early parts of the book deal with Native American storytelling.  Throughout many of the Native American cultures Coyote features prominently as the trickster character.  One story, that comes from the Chinook people in the Pacific Northwest, deals with how Coyote learns the various taboos about salmon fishing.  The story is largely a repetition, Coyote is unable to catch salmon, so he takes a shit and asks his shit why he can't catch salmon, and the shit responds telling Coyote which taboo he's broken.  (Since the person who preserved this was a lexigrapher rather than folklorist or anthropologist it's written like that.)  While reading that I thought it was too bad Joseph Campbell hadn't picked up on that story; Star Wars could have been quite different.  (Although it's not outside the realm of possibility that George Lucas's shit did tell him how to write the prequels.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on September 23, 2022, 02:46:22 PM
I don't know, isn't Vader a Dark Lord of the Shit?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 23, 2022, 03:28:24 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 23, 2022, 06:14:19 AMRIP Hilary Mantel :(
:o

She was not that old.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 23, 2022, 08:09:03 PM
She certainly didn't look old in her flyleaf pictures.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on September 27, 2022, 04:08:20 PM
Read a book*, returned it to the local library from whence it came.

Felt like a bit of an old-fashion thing to do.


* 'The Evidence' by Christopher Priest, its a return to his Dream Archipelago setting with touches from 'The Prestige', perhaps his most well-known book and source for Nolan's film of the same name.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 27, 2022, 04:23:31 PM
The update of Cline's 1177BC is worth a read. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 29, 2022, 01:24:26 PM
I read Thomas Levenson's Measure for Measure which is a combined history of music and science.  He tries to demonstrate how musical instruments and scientific instruments developed in parallel, but the connections are usually tenuous which leaves him to long stretches where he describes the development one or the other.  He confuses scientific instrument and machine at many points; but that does lead to a somewhat better connection, for example a Jacquard Loom and a player piano are similar in concept.  he's an interesting storyteller, if nothing else, so at least it's a readable popular history of music, technology and science.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 19, 2022, 02:14:24 AM
Finished Mount Athos: Renewal in Paradise 2nd ed, by Speake. A very readable account of Athos today and its history, with a personal touch. And with some nice pics. I have seen Athos from a distance but I have never visited it myself.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 20, 2022, 01:43:22 AM
Finished The Russo-Turkish War, 1768-1774: Catherine II and the Ottoman Empire, by Davies. It does a decent but maybe not very inspiring job describing the background, course, and aftermath of the war. It's certainly nice that it highlights a conflict that isn't very well known in the West. While I'm not a map fanatic, it could have used some more maps. There is only one map (of the peace settlement), and no maps of the main campaigns or similar. The basic geography of parts of the region is certainly a lot more well known in the West today because of the current war, but for an era when household names like Odessa or Sevastopol didn't yet exist, and political borders were very different than today, maps are helpful.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 20, 2022, 01:56:34 AM
I think one of the very last SPI games I played was on that war.  Flying column in the mountain passes, jah?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 20, 2022, 01:58:08 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 20, 2022, 01:56:34 AMI think one of the very last SPI games I played was on that war.  Flying column in the mountain passes, jah?

Sounds plausible.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Malthus on October 24, 2022, 03:35:44 PM
Reading (well, re-reading after many years) The Man-Eating Leopard of Rudraprayag, an autobiographical account by a fellow who, in the early 20th century, specialized in hunting down Tigers and leopards that turned to eating humans.

It's a really gripping read (no pun intended). Interestingly, it is only occasionally that these animals take to eating people. According to the author, tigers mostly take to eating people when they get too old or injured to catch their usual prey, while leopards often take to eating people because they get habituated to scavenging human flesh during epidemics, then hunt people by preference.

Apparently, of the two, leopards are the more terrifying - they come at night and even break into people's houses to get at them, and are very clever at it. True horror movie stuff.

The author has a sort of dry humour about his gruesome subject which is very entertaining.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 30, 2022, 03:17:30 PM
Strong recommend for Six Seasons.

Not sure where I heard about it but it really is an excellent veg cookbook - tried a few things now and all pretty simple and very good. It's season by season which I find really helpful as I love the idea of eating more seasonally but have zero concept of what's good when (except for asparagus :wub:) so this is helpful.

But worth a look :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on November 08, 2022, 05:57:44 PM
I finished La Fiesta del Chivo (Feast of the Goat) by Mario Vargas Llosa; it is quite probably the only work by a Nobel Prize winning author to give an in depth description of Adrian, Michigan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian,_Michigan). 

The bulk of the story is set in the Dominican Republic and deals with the Trujillo dictatorship.  Because Trujillo demanded absolute loyalty from his minions it's hard not to think of Donald Trump when reading this.  Trujillo was worse; at least, (to the best of my knowledge,) Trump didn't demand to sleep with Karen Pence or forbid Steven Mnuchin to marry Louise. 

The story is told from three points of view; the daughter of a Dominican politician, Trujillo himself and Trujillo's assassins.  The chapters rotate through the different perspectives and tell (or recount) stories that aren't quite in linear order but close enough that you can stitch them together.  I thought it was very well done.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 16, 2022, 03:40:11 AM
Men of Bronze: Hoplite Warfare in Ancient Greece, Kagan and Viggiano (editors). A collection of papers on the nature, origin, and political impact of the hoplite phalanx. The sparse evidence makes for a range of interpretations. In typical historian fashion focus is often on entire complete scenarios based on very vague evidence, instead of methodically working out what we actually know and how well we know it. But the book is well worth a read if you're into ancient warfare at all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 12, 2022, 06:20:07 AM
The Japanese Myths: A Guide to Gods, Heroes and Spirits, by Frydman. From the mythical origins of Japan through the melting pot of local and continental religions and stories, to modern Japanese popular culture. A nice little introduction to the subject.

Folk Tales of Japan: 28 Japanese folk tales with cultural commentary, by Kyota Ko. Does what it says on the tin.  Every story has a cute little illustration. A charming little book. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 31, 2022, 08:37:37 AM
So I kept track of my reading for the first time this year and set (and kept!) a target because I'd got a bit out of habit/lazy with reading. It was really good and I strongly recommend - might try to keep a track of new films too in 2023.

But thought I'd share a few favourites. Fiction:
Small Things Like These by Claire Keegan. It's a very short book, but a realy beautifully spare story of an ordinary man in a small Irish town with a Magdalene laundry one winter in the 80s. It's a very good winter read specifically.

The Death of Comrade President by Alain Mabanckou. It's a novel following a kid in a second city in the Republic of Congo and in particular the way his life is completely upended by the murder of the country's president. It's very funny, very sweet - the writing of the kid at the centre of it is gorgeous - and in the end quite moving.

They by Kay Dick. Another very short book recently re-published for the first time since the 70s. It's more a story cycle than a novel - it's maybe a dystopia and subtitled a "Sequence of unease". Centred on ungendered, unknown protagonist moving through their circle of artists and intellectuals in the South Downs in the midst of the growing, creeping presence of "them". "They" aren't a political movement, don't seem to have beliefs or a government - but "they" are suspicious of/hate art, people who live alone, intellectuals.

The Sparsholt Affair by Alan Hollinghurst. I think it might be Hollinghurst's best book but I get this had mixed reception. With Hollinghurst first of all there's always the style. His work often gets criticised for drowning plot in favour of style and I don't think there's a better working writer in English for perfect sentences that make you pause. It is broadly, loosely a story about a group of gay men in English (high-ish/boho) society from the 40s to the modern day with at its heart, but all in some way related to a charming, handome, athletic man from the Midlands called David Sparsholt and the undefined, vague sexual scandal in the 1960s that takes his name. A warning though that the first section is written by one of the characters and is a plummy memoir of a superior Oxford student during the war - the fun is the overwritten style but it's not for everyone. Then it starts to jump forward and nearer to us in Hollinghurst's narrative voice.

The Trees by Percival Everett - An incredibly pacy, darkly funny read - a little bit in the mood of Jordan Peele as race, genre and the supernatural entangle. Starting out about investigations in a small town in Misssissippi called Money ("named in that persistent Southern tradition of irony") following the deaths of some rednecks. The first body is found next to the corpse of black man, mutilated in precisely the same way as Emmett Till - which then disappears from the morgue only to reappear next to the next body too. Then slowly all over the country there are more and more white murder victims turning up with bodies of the lynched dead found next to them.

Non-fiction:
Time of the Magicians by Wolfram Ellenberger - A very engaging narrative of Hegel, Wittgenstein, Walter Benjamin and, the less known (now), Ernst Cassirer in the 1920s. It makes the bold claim of these thinkers re-inventing philosophy for the 20th century in parallel and in different ways. I'm not sure it meets the claim, but it's a really interesting read anyway and seems good for someone like me who absolutely cannot read philosophy :lol:

Disorder by Helen Thompson - I loved this book and have been thinking about it ever since I read it. It is first of all an attempt to explain the historical context of this moment - in particular through three inter-locking narratives around energy, politics and finance, particularly since the war. But it is subtitled Hard Times in the 21st Century so it also looks particularly at the shocks of 2016 onwards largely as products of those structural forces from energy, politics and finance - and, in my view unfortunately convincingly, argues that the political shocks and disruption from fault-lines in energy, politics and finance are not over.

Second-Hand Time by Svetlana Alexievich - I was surprised when I realised this was non-fiction - it is novelistic collage of Russian and Soviet voices about their experience of the collapse of the Soviet Union (and Soviet culture/Homo Sovieticus) as well as what replaced it in the 90s. It covers everything Soviet ideals, the gulag, nationalist wars, veterans, the black market - it's just extraordinary.

The Cold War: A World History by Odd Arne Westad - As with Disorder there's no grand style in this but it's an incredible survey of the Cold War. That it's a world history is very important as it does engage with the Third World movement, India as the "wildcard" of the Cold War and the way that both of those and most of the post-colonial (and Latin American) experience were ultimately overridden by the inescapable global logic of the Cold War. Really interesting if you're interested in the post-war.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on December 31, 2022, 11:47:42 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on November 08, 2022, 05:57:44 PMI finished La Fiesta del Chivo (Feast of the Goat) by Mario Vargas Llosa; it is quite probably the only work by a Nobel Prize winning author to give an in depth description of Adrian, Michigan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian,_Michigan). 

The bulk of the story is set in the Dominican Republic and deals with the Trujillo dictatorship.  Because Trujillo demanded absolute loyalty from his minions it's hard not to think of Donald Trump when reading this.  Trujillo was worse; at least, (to the best of my knowledge,) Trump didn't demand to sleep with Karen Pence or forbid Steven Mnuchin to marry Louise. 

The story is told from three points of view; the daughter of a Dominican politician, Trujillo himself and Trujillo's assassins.  The chapters rotate through the different perspectives and tell (or recount) stories that aren't quite in linear order but close enough that you can stitch them together.  I thought it was very well done.

I liked this a lot but not managed to get on with anything else by Llosa
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on January 20, 2023, 03:59:30 AM
The Franco-Prussian War, by Howard. A very readable single-volume account. An older book (1961) but AFAIK there has been no revolutionary change in our understanding of the war since then. The war had two distinct phases, first the quick destruction of the Imperial armies and then the cold slog against the Government of National Defense. Both are fascinating, but this time (I have read other books on the war) I didn't feel like the second phase so after the fall of Napoleon I skipped to the peace negotiations. So I haven't read the entire book, but I might go back to it at a later time if I feel like it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 28, 2023, 03:37:17 PM
A question for the tolkienistas here, is the revised 50th/60th editions of LOTR noticably different from earlier ones?

I ask as Ithink I've only the 2nd or 3rd dating from the late 70s, so might get a new one before re-reading it, if it'sworthwhile.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on January 28, 2023, 04:01:40 PM
As far as I know Tolkien himself revised LOTR with minor details (things like the moon being described in the wrong phase and so on, very minor) as long as he lived. He died in '73 so editions from the 70's should be more or less the same as newer editions.

This is a somewhat educated guess since I have no knowledge on English editions and I expect grumbler to tell me why I'm wrong shortly.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on January 28, 2023, 04:26:13 PM
Quote from: Threviel on January 28, 2023, 04:01:40 PMAs far as I know Tolkien himself revised LOTR with minor details (things like the moon being described in the wrong phase and so on, very minor) as long as he lived. He died in '73 so editions from the 70's should be more or less the same as newer editions.

This is a somewhat educated guess since I have no knowledge on English editions and I expect grumbler to tell me why I'm wrong shortly.

Thanks.

I no his late son Christopher did some revisions, but don't know the significance.

Plus given the length of the book. each revision was likely to add in new additional errors, even after older ones were corrected.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 28, 2023, 04:44:55 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 28, 2023, 04:26:13 PM
Quote from: Threviel on January 28, 2023, 04:01:40 PMAs far as I know Tolkien himself revised LOTR with minor details (things like the moon being described in the wrong phase and so on, very minor) as long as he lived. He died in '73 so editions from the 70's should be more or less the same as newer editions.

This is a somewhat educated guess since I have no knowledge on English editions and I expect grumbler to tell me why I'm wrong shortly.

Thanks.

I no his late son Christopher did some revisions, but don't know the significance.

Plus given the length of the book. each revision was likely to add in new additional errors, even after older ones were corrected.

I know of no major changes since those that Tolkien himself made.  As far as I know, Christopher Tolkien's changes were just correcting map errors.  Though I expect Threviel to tell me why I'm wrong shortly.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on January 28, 2023, 05:52:55 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 28, 2023, 04:44:55 PMThough I expect Threviel to tell me why I'm wrong shortly.

Hey, I normally talk out of my ass and you very often correct me (in a good way) on things Tolkien.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 28, 2023, 06:39:45 PM
Quote from: Threviel on January 28, 2023, 05:52:55 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 28, 2023, 04:44:55 PMThough I expect Threviel to tell me why I'm wrong shortly.

Hey, I normally talk out of my ass and you very often correct me (in a good way) on things Tolkien.

I think that you will find, upon reflection, that your initial comment was pretty passive-aggressive.  There was no reason to mention me at all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on January 28, 2023, 06:52:19 PM
I find it's usually safest not to mention grumbler at all.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: HVC on January 28, 2023, 06:58:38 PM
For what it's worth I read it as self deprecating  based on the last Tolkien/LOTR discussion
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 28, 2023, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 28, 2023, 06:58:38 PMFor what it's worth I read it as self deprecating  based on the last Tolkien/LOTR discussion

Could very well be, but something along the line of "maybe x person knows more" is less passive-aggressive than "I expect X person to correct me."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 28, 2023, 07:57:39 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 28, 2023, 06:52:19 PMI find it's usually safest not to mention grumbler at all.

Safest not to mention me like that, for sure.  Or, for that matter, to mention me like you do here.

I understand the whole "beware Berkut/grumbler" thing is a bit of a tradition, but I'm not sure why making people feel unwelcome on a dying forum is seen as wise or even fair dinkum.

It's especially ironic coming from you, given that the whole reason I left Paradox and encouraged everyone to come here was because I protested your tempban there.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on January 29, 2023, 02:34:44 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 28, 2023, 06:39:45 PM
Quote from: Threviel on January 28, 2023, 05:52:55 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 28, 2023, 04:44:55 PMThough I expect Threviel to tell me why I'm wrong shortly.

Hey, I normally talk out of my ass and you very often correct me (in a good way) on things Tolkien.

I think that you will find, upon reflection, that your initial comment was pretty passive-aggressive.  There was no reason to mention me at all.

My bad, sorry about that, it was not meant to be negative in any way. Mea culpa.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on January 29, 2023, 09:23:26 AM
Quote from: Threviel on January 29, 2023, 02:34:44 AMMy bad, sorry about that, it was not meant to be negative in any way. Mea culpa.


I appreciate that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 05, 2023, 12:53:58 PM
Thomas Carlyle - The French Revolution

I'm not really sure what to think about this; it is a breathtaking work filled with fascinating character studies (most notable Lafayette, Louis XVI, Marie-Antoinette and Robespierre.)  On the other hand it's certainly not a typical history (for one thing it's written in the present tense, for another it abandons any pretense of a neutral tone1.)) and it's often difficult to follow the events in the narrative.  It's not dull; it's sort of like watching the guillotine sitting between Madame Defarge and some guy who won't stop making allusions to Shakespeare and the Bible.

The phrase "Whiff of grapeshot" comes from the work (or is, at very least, a translation by Carlyle.)  Dickens used the description of the crowds as inspiration in "Tale of Two Cities.)

1.)  Arguably Carlyle hates royalists and every faction or republicanism more or less equally; so, from that standpoint, it is balanced, if not neutral.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 05, 2023, 02:19:34 PM
I think from a British perspectve it's tough to think of a history (amplified by Dickens) that's had a longer, harder hold on the popular imagination of history - though maybe Lions led by Donkeys + Blackadder Goes Forth will dislodge it.

The guys on the Rest is History have mentioned a couple of times that as part of the bicentenary celebration of the revolution Mitterrand asked world leaders for their thoughts/contribution. Most dutifully replied with some pablum about universal human rights and this epochal moment of the Enlightenment - but not Thatcher. She actually got on very well with Mitterrand but her reply was basically straight out of Carlyle/Dickens - what a disaster, all those beheadings, guillotines and the Terror everywhere :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on February 13, 2023, 04:34:36 PM
I finished Henry Miller's "Tropic of Run on Sentences Capricorn."  I had found that in a used book store several years ago and hadn't gotten around to reading it until now.  I've never read "Tropic of Cancer," but this is supposed to be a prequel covering Miller's (semi-autobiographical) life before he went to Paris.  More of a character sketch than a story, but cleverly done.  Miller begins with finding a job at Western Union (called the Cosmodemonic Telegraph Company in the book) and tells a rambling, stream of consciousness story filled with reminisces ends up at the point where he's looking for the job which he will eventually find at Western Union.

The novel was a succès de scandale; and the many descriptions of sex were probably genuinely shocking in 1939.  Today Miller tends to come across as a 12 year old boy who has just completed the sex ed unit in physical education; especially when he starts to going on about midget lesbians or the land of fuck.  I still think it's worth reading for Miller's voice.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on February 15, 2023, 11:29:11 PM
A book I used to buy for 15-20 quid when I was an undergraduate has gotten a litle more expensive:

IISS Miltary Balance 2023 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Military-Balance-2023-International-Institute/dp/1032508957/)

And not a distorted amazon marketplace price as it's only 50 less from the publishers if they've got it in stock.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on February 15, 2023, 11:43:19 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 15, 2023, 11:29:11 PMA book I used to buy for 15-20 quid when I was an undergraduate has gotten a litle more expensive:

IISS Miltary Balance 2023 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Military-Balance-2023-International-Institute/dp/1032508957/)

And not a distorted amazon marketplace price as it's only 50 less from the publishers if they've got it in stock.

You can get away with that when your customers are only institutions.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on February 16, 2023, 03:15:14 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 13, 2023, 04:34:36 PMI finished Henry Miller's "Tropic of Run on Sentences Capricorn."  I had found that in a used book store several years ago and hadn't gotten around to reading it until now.  I've never read "Tropic of Cancer," but this is supposed to be a prequel covering Miller's (semi-autobiographical) life before he went to Paris.  More of a character sketch than a story, but cleverly done.  Miller begins with finding a job at Western Union (called the Cosmodemonic Telegraph Company in the book) and tells a rambling, stream of consciousness story filled with reminisces ends up at the point where he's looking for the job which he will eventually find at Western Union.

The novel was a succès de scandale; and the many descriptions of sex were probably genuinely shocking in 1939.  Today Miller tends to come across as a 12 year old boy who has just completed the sex ed unit in physical education; especially when he starts to going on about midget lesbians or the land of fuck.  I still think it's worth reading for Miller's voice.

If you've not already read it, you might be interested in George Orwell's views on Miller's style (based around Tropic of Cancer)

https://orwell.ru/library/essays/whale/english/e_itw
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on March 03, 2023, 03:21:18 PM
Thanks Gups, that was interesting

I reread James Joyce's "Dubliners."  I remember when I was in 7th grade (12 years old) we had "Araby" in our reader, and I didn't understand why the narrator feels shame and humiliation at the end.  I think that the editors of the book wanted to expose us to Joyce and hoped that we'd connect to the child narrator.  The other two stories with child narrators (The Sisters and An Encounter) deal with a priest who dies of complications due to a venereal disease and an old man who masturbates in front of two young boys - so Araby was probably about the best hope at that age; but I simply didn't have enough life experience to understand it at the time.

When I was a Junior in high school (16 years old) our reader had "Counterparts" which I could tell was by the same author even though I didn't know anything about Joyce.

I didn't catch it the first time I read it, but "A Little Cloud" is an ideal story for the age of social media.  The protagonist dreams of a better life rather than his banal middle class Dublin existence and feels much worse after a meeting with a friend who is a successful newspaperman in London; except it's obvious to the reader that his friend is full of shit.

"The Dead" is the best story in the book, and, in my opinion, one of the greatest short stories ever written.  It struck me this time that it's also the least Joycean story; it barely touches on his usual theme of Irish identity and instead focuses on death, memory and acceptance.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 27, 2023, 11:44:16 AM
Finished Gamla Stockholm (Old Stockholm), by Claes Lundin and August Strindberg (yes the Strindberg). It's a social history of the Stockholm that people in the early 1880s considered "old". Going back to medieval times in principle, but most of the stuff is about the 17th to early 19th centuries. I love these kinds of books, and since it's so old you double your pleasure since it often compares stuff to its own time. It's very entertaining and well written. AFAIK not available in translation.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on March 29, 2023, 09:36:36 AM
Tsushima, by Kowner. Part of the Great Battles series by Oxford University Press. A nice short introduction to the battle, with half the book covering its effects, especially medium and long term.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on April 03, 2023, 02:43:02 PM
I've been reading "Quantum Enigma" by Bruce Rosenblum and Fred Kuttner; which provides a high level, but hard science explanation of quantum theory (something I wish I had when studying modern physics.)  Inevitably they discuss Schrödinger's cat (and the standard response to the thought experiment.)  My favorite part of the chapter is a quote from Stephen Hawking:

"When I hear about Schrödinger's cat I reach for my gun."

(It's even better if you imagine it in the Hawking voice.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on April 03, 2023, 06:11:15 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on April 03, 2023, 02:43:02 PMI've been reading "Quantum Enigma" by Bruce Rosenblum and Fred Kuttner; which provides a high level, but hard science explanation of quantum theory (something I wish I had when studying modern physics.)  Inevitably they discuss Schrödinger's cat (and the standard response to the thought experiment.)  My favorite part of the chapter is a quote from Stephen Hawking:

"When I hear about Schrödinger's cat I reach for my gun."

(It's even better if you imagine it in the Hawking voice.)

What is it that the pop interpretation and commentary gets so wrong?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on April 03, 2023, 06:25:19 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 03, 2023, 06:11:15 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on April 03, 2023, 02:43:02 PMI've been reading "Quantum Enigma" by Bruce Rosenblum and Fred Kuttner; which provides a high level, but hard science explanation of quantum theory (something I wish I had when studying modern physics.)  Inevitably they discuss Schrödinger's cat (and the standard response to the thought experiment.)  My favorite part of the chapter is a quote from Stephen Hawking:

"When I hear about Schrödinger's cat I reach for my gun."

(It's even better if you imagine it in the Hawking voice.)

What is it that the pop interpretation and commentary gets so wrong?

The Schrodinger's cat thought experiment was designed to do exactly the opposite of what most lay explanations describe. Schrodinger was pointing out that the cat was, indeed, dead (or alive) and an external observer just didn't discover which until the chamber was opened.  The prevailing theory of quantum mechanics, on the other hand, held that the emission of the particle whose emission was going to cause the cat's death was itself not resolved until observed, so until observed the cat was both dead and alive at the same time.

There's lots of un to be had with the idea, though.  Is the cat an observer, able to collapse the quantum superposition without knowing it?  What if the chamber is opened with no one looking, and the opening is filmed, with scientists only later viewing the film.  Is the film an observer?  Does the quantum superposition end when the film is made, or when it is viewed?  Etc.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on April 03, 2023, 07:27:49 PM
Thanks :cheers:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: frunk on April 03, 2023, 09:35:13 PM
Quote from: grumbler on April 03, 2023, 06:25:19 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 03, 2023, 06:11:15 PMWhat is it that the pop interpretation and commentary gets so wrong?

The Schrodinger's cat thought experiment was designed to do exactly the opposite of what most lay explanations describe. Schrodinger was pointing out that the cat was, indeed, dead (or alive) and an external observer just didn't discover which until the chamber was opened.  The prevailing theory of quantum mechanics, on the other hand, held that the emission of the particle whose emission was going to cause the cat's death was itself not resolved until observed, so until observed the cat was both dead and alive at the same time.

There's lots of un to be had with the idea, though.  Is the cat an observer, able to collapse the quantum superposition without knowing it?  What if the chamber is opened with no one looking, and the opening is filmed, with scientists only later viewing the film.  Is the film an observer?  Does the quantum superposition end when the film is made, or when it is viewed?  Etc.

Schrodinger was arguing against the Copenhagen Interpretation of QM by trying to create a ridiculous scenario.  Unfortunately for Schrodinger the Copenhagen Interpretation remains consistent with all known experiments and so still hasn't been refuted, and in fact creating the proper superposition for extremely small objects analogous to the thought experiment has been achieved. 

The problem for a lot of pop commentary is assuming that Schrodinger's Cat was describing or depended on a literal situation, not really getting the consequences of what it means when there is a quantum superposition, and misunderstanding the parts of the thought experiment that are still interesting in physics. 

Oh, and if you want a pop commentary that is a nice intro to QM check out this video:
and the heavier math companion video here:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on April 10, 2023, 08:31:13 PM
I know I'm very late to it but just finished Empire of Pain.

One of the best non-fiction books I've read in ages - really very good. Weirdly the early stuff about the rise of the first generation of Sacklers was even more compelling than the Oxycontin era.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on April 19, 2023, 09:32:15 AM
Everyday Life in Victorian London, by Amy. A fairly short and simple introduction to the Victorian metropolis. It's fine for what it is, but it doesn't really penetrate the subject matter. It was an impulse buy, I assume there are many high-quality books on London but I didn't try to seek out the best.

The Samurai Castle Master: Warlord Todo Takatora, by Glenn. Fanboi biography of the 6'3" samurai who rose from semi-obscurity in service to several different lords to finally a position of great trust with Ieyasu himself. There is very little analysis, but since detailed books on the Sengoku period are still rare in English I think it's worth it for someone interested in the era.

The Samurai and the Cross: The Jesuit Enterprise in Early Modern Japan, by Ucerler. The title is misleading, but that's one of the few negatives of this book. The book doesn't really describe any general history of the Jesuits in Japan (there's almost no information on "hands-on" matters like numbers, locations, or similar), rather it describes some specific questions that the Jesuits in Japan encountered, how these issues were discussed, and finally the reasons the Tokugawa eventually eradicated* Christianity in Japan. Issues include how the Jesuits viewed the Japanese, how Jesuits and Japanese Christians should act in the face of a highly civilized and fairly hostile country like Japan, and if a hypothetical invasion of Japan or China was just or not (or feasible or not). Through contemporary letters and tracts the debate can be followed, a debate that involved individuals in Japan, Macao, the Philippines, New Spain, Goa, Madrid, and Rome. There are many interesting things here, for instance the very positive view of Chinese and Japanese society that some leading Jesuits had, and the way they consciously modelled themselves on the early Christians who operated in a highly civilized and literate and pagan society (Ancient Rome). The instructions in a question-answer format to help Japanese Christians determine when it was OK to obey orders related to pagan rituals etc, and when it was not OK, is fascinating. The subject matter might be considered somewhat obscure, but it never gets boring since the book is very well written. Recommended.

*Not quite eradicated. The story of the hidden Christians in Japan is fascinating, but not really the subject of this book.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on April 28, 2023, 09:26:00 AM
A previously unpublished novel by Gabriel García Márquez will be published in August of next year:
 En agosto nos vemos (https://newsrnd.com/life/2023-04-28-an-unpublished-novel-by-garc%C3%ADa-m%C3%A1rquez-will-be-published-in-2024.SJEw7RVFXh.html) (See you in August.)

It sounds a little like "Love of the Last Tycoon" (by F. Scott Fitzgerald) in that it wasn't quite finished. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 23, 2023, 06:03:19 PM
BBC Releases a list of the top 100 Children's books of all time. (https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20230522-the-100-greatest-childrens-books-of-all-time)

Quote1          Where the Wild Things Are (Maurice Sendak, 1963)
2          Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (Lewis Carroll, 1865)
3          Pippi Longstocking (Astrid Lindgren, 1945)
4          The Little Prince (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, 1943)
5          The Hobbit (JRR Tolkien, 1937)
6          Northern Lights (Philip Pullman, 1995)
7          The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (CS Lewis, 1950)
8          Winnie-the-Pooh (AA Milne and EH Shepard, 1926)
9          Charlotte's Web (EB White and Garth Williams, 1952)
10        Matilda (Roald Dahl and Quentin Blake, 1988)
11        Anne of Green Gables (LM Montgomery, 1908)
12        Fairy Tales (Hans Christian Andersen, 1827)
13        Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (JK Rowling, 1997)
14        The Very Hungry Caterpillar (Eric Carle, 1969)
15        The Dark is Rising (Susan Cooper, 1973)
16        The Arrival (Shaun Tan, 2006)
17        Little Women (Louisa May Alcott, 1868)
18        Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (Roald Dahl, 1964)
19        Heidi (Johanna Spyri, 1880)
20        Goodnight Moon (Margaret Wise Brown and Clement Hurd, 1947)
21        The Adventures of Pinocchio (Carlo Collodi, 1883)
22        A Wizard of Earthsea (Ursula K Le Guin, 1968)
23        Moominland Midwinter (Tove Jansson, 1957)
24        I Want My Hat Back (Jon Klassen, 2011)
25        The Secret Garden (Frances Hodgson Burnett, 1911)
26        Duck, Death and the Tulip (Wolf Erlbruch, 2007)
27        The Brothers Lionheart (Astrid Lindgren, 1973)
28        Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (JK Rowling, 1999)
29        Brown Girl Dreaming (Jacqueline Woodson, 2014)
30        The Three Robbers (Tomi Ungerer, 1961)
31        The Snowy Day (Ezra Jack Keats, 1962)
32        The Tiger Who Came to Tea (Judith Kerr, 1968)
33        Howl's Moving Castle (Diana Wynne Jones, 1986)
34        A Wrinkle in Time (Madeleine L'Engle, 1962)
35        Watership Down (Richard Adams, 1972)
36        Tom's Midnight Garden (Philippa Pearce, 1958)
37        Grimm's Fairy Tales (Brothers Grimm, 1812)
38        The Tale of Peter Rabbit (Beatrix Potter, 1902)
39        The Railway Children (Edith Nesbit, 1906)
40        Noughts and Crosses (Malorie Blackman, 2001)
41        The BFG (Roald Dahl and Quentin Blake, 1982)
42        Rules of Summer (Shaun Tan, 2013)
43        Momo (Michael Ende, 1973)
44        The Story of Ferdinand (Munro Leaf and Robert Lawson, 1936)
45        The Lord of the Rings (JRR Tolkien, 1954)
46        The Owl Service (Alan Garner, 1967)
47        Ronia, the Robber's Daughter (Astrid Lindgren, 1981)
48        The Neverending Story (Michael Ende, 1979)
49        The Panchatantra (Anonymous / folk, -200)
50        Treasure Island :pirate:(Robert Louis Stevenson, 1883)
51        Mary Poppins (PL Travers, 1934)
52        Ballet Shoes (Noel Streafield, 1936)
53        So Much! (Trish Cooke and Helen Oxenbury, 1994)
54        We're Going on a Bear Hunt (Michael Rosen and Helen Oxenbury, 1989)
55        The Adventures of Cipollino (Gianni Rodari, 1951)
56        The Giving Tree (Shel Silverstein, 1964)
57        The Gruffalo (Julia Donaldson and Axel Scheffler, 1999)
58        Julián Is a Mermaid (Jessica Love, 2018)
59        Comet in Moominland (Tove Jansson, 1946)
60        Finn Family Moomintroll (Tove Jansson, 1948)
61        The Witches (Roald Dahl and Quentin Blake, 1983)
62        A Bear Called Paddington (Michael Bond, 1958)
63        The Wind in the Willows (Kenneth Grahame, 1908)
64        Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry (Mildred D Taylor, 1977)
65        Karlsson-on-the-Roof (Astrid Lindgren, 1955)
66        The Phantom Tollbooth (Norton Juster and Jules Feiffer, 1961)
67        The Cat in the Hat (Dr Seuss, 1957)
68        The Miraculous Journey of Edward Tulane (Kate DiCamillo and Bagram Ibatoulline, 2006)
69        Peter and Wendy (JM Barrie, 1911)
70        One Thousand and One Nights (Anonymous / folk)
71        From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs Basil E Frankweiler (EL Konigsburg, 1967)
72        When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit (Judith Kerr, 1971)
73        Shum bola (G'afur G'ulоm, 1936)
73        Ernest and Celestine (Gabrielle Vincent, 1981)
75        A Kind of Spark (Elle McNicoll, 2020)
76        Little Nicholas (René Goscinny and Jean-Jacques Sempé, 1959)
77        Black Beauty (Anna Sewell, 1877)
78        Daddy-Long-Legs (Jean Webster, 1912)
79        No Kiss for Mother (Tomi Ungerer, 1973)
80        My Family and Other Animals (Gerald Durrell, 1956)
81        Jacob Have I Loved (Katherine Paterson, 1980)
81        The Lorax (Dr Seuss, 1971)
83        Fairy Tales / The Tales of Mother Goose (Charles Perrault, 1697)
84        The Moomins and the Great Flood (Tove Jansson, 1945)
85        The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (L Frank Baum, 1900)
86        Just William (Richmal Crompton, 1922)
87        The Twits (Roald Dahl and Quentin Blake, 1980)
87        The Mouse and His Child (Russell Hoban, 1967)
87        Out of My Mind (Sharon M Draper, 2010)
87        Moominvalley in November (Tove Jansson, 1970)
87        Little House in the Big Woods (Laura Ingalls Wilder, 1932)
92        Danny the Champion of the World (Roald Dahl, 1975)
93        The Snowman (Raymond Briggs, 1978)
94        Wave (Suzy Lee, 2008)
95        The Black Brothers (Lisa Tetzner, 1940)
96        The Velveteen Rabbit (Margery Williams, 1921)
97        The Bad Beginning (Lemony Snicket, 1999)
98        The Graveyard Book (Neil Gaiman, 2008)
99        American Born Chinese (Gene Luen Yang and Lark Pien, 2006)
100       Haroun and the Sea of Stories (Salman Rushdie, 1990)

I've read 27 of these (Where the Wild Things Are, Matilda, Anne of Green Gables, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, Little Women, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Goodnight Moon, The Adventures of Pinocchio, The Secret Garden, The Tale of Peter Rabbit, The Little Prince, The Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit , Treasure Island :pirate: , Mary Poppins , The Giving Tree , A Bear Called Paddington , The Wind in the Willows , The Cat in the Hat , The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe , One Thousand and One Nights , Little Nicholas, Winnie-the-Pooh (in the original Latin, no less ;)), The Wonderful Wizard of Oz , Little House in the Big Woods, and Charlotte's Web); but who is Languish's champion of Children's lit?

(I'd question how much "Children's Literature" 1001 Nights is; that can get racy (as well as violent and scatological, but children are usually okay with that.))
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 23, 2023, 06:12:00 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 23, 2023, 06:03:19 PMBBC Releases a list of the top 100 Children's books of all time. (https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20230522-the-100-greatest-childrens-books-of-all-time)

Quote4          The Little Prince (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, 1943)
5          The Hobbit (JRR Tolkien, 1937)
6          Northern Lights (Philip Pullman, 1995)
7          The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (CS Lewis, 1950)
8          Winnie-the-Pooh (AA Milne and EH Shepard, 1926)
9          Charlotte's Web (EB White and Garth Williams, 1952)
10        Matilda (Roald Dahl and Quentin Blake, 1988)
13        Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (JK Rowling, 1997)
14        The Very Hungry Caterpillar (Eric Carle, 1969)
18        Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (Roald Dahl, 1964)
20        Goodnight Moon (Margaret Wise Brown and Clement Hurd, 1947)
22        A Wizard of Earthsea (Ursula K Le Guin, 1968)
28        Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (JK Rowling, 1999)
32        The Tiger Who Came to Tea (Judith Kerr, 1968)
35        Watership Down (Richard Adams, 1972)
39        The Railway Children (Edith Nesbit, 1906)
40        Noughts and Crosses (Malorie Blackman, 2001)
41        The BFG (Roald Dahl and Quentin Blake, 1982)
46        The Owl Service (Alan Garner, 1967)
54        We're Going on a Bear Hunt (Michael Rosen and Helen Oxenbury, 1989)
61        The Witches (Roald Dahl and Quentin Blake, 1983)
62        A Bear Called Paddington (Michael Bond, 1958)
63        The Wind in the Willows (Kenneth Grahame, 1908)
64        Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry (Mildred D Taylor, 1977)
72        When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit (Judith Kerr, 1971)
87        The Twits (Roald Dahl and Quentin Blake, 1980)
92        Danny the Champion of the World (Roald Dahl, 1975)
93        The Snowman (Raymond Briggs, 1978)
Ones that I remember reading as a kid.

I have no memory of any of the story, but just remember being really upset/sad at Charlotte's Web.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on May 23, 2023, 06:32:02 PM
'The Anglo-Saxons' by Marc Morris, really should have been subtitled a political-dynastic history, as it has far to little to say about the economic and social developments during the period. So great if you want to read about the late Anglo-Saxon penchant for poisoning rival.  :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on May 24, 2023, 12:25:09 AM
I count 9 Swedish-language children's books on the top 100. Not bad.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on May 24, 2023, 04:52:07 AM
I'd question any list which has both Lord of the Rings and A Very Hungry Caterpillar on it.

I was a voracious reader as a child but probably read only a quarter of these. Wasted too much time on Enid Blyton.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on May 24, 2023, 04:59:20 AM
From the list I read LotR, The Hobbit, and (in school) When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit.

I've seen movies or series (live action or otherwise) of:
2          Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (Lewis Carroll, 1865)
3          Pippi Longstocking (Astrid Lindgren, 1945)
4          The Little Prince (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, 1943)
8          Winnie-the-Pooh (AA Milne and EH Shepard, 1926)
10        Matilda (Roald Dahl and Quentin Blake, 1988)
11        Anne of Green Gables (LM Montgomery, 1908)
12        Fairy Tales (Hans Christian Andersen, 1827)
17        Little Women (Louisa May Alcott, 1868)
19        Heidi (Johanna Spyri, 1880)
21        The Adventures of Pinocchio (Carlo Collodi, 1883)
27        The Brothers Lionheart (Astrid Lindgren, 1973)
30        The Three Robbers (Tomi Ungerer, 1961)
35        Watership Down (Richard Adams, 1972)
37        Grimm's Fairy Tales (Brothers Grimm, 1812)
43        Momo (Michael Ende, 1973)
47        Ronia, the Robber's Daughter (Astrid Lindgren, 1981)
48        The Neverending Story (Michael Ende, 1979)
51        Mary Poppins (PL Travers, 1934)
62        A Bear Called Paddington (Michael Bond, 1958)
65        Karlsson-on-the-Roof (Astrid Lindgren, 1955)
70        One Thousand and One Nights (Anonymous / folk)

I didn't care much for kids books as a child; though I did read comic books and listened to audio plays a lot.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on May 24, 2023, 05:49:51 AM
Strange that the list has Alan Garner's The Owl Service but not his superior The Weirdstone of Brisingamen.  The former was made into a TV series, so maybe that explains it.

Also, some of these works do not seem to me to be children's literature.  LOTR, for instance, uses vocabulary that few children will have yet mastered.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on May 24, 2023, 11:21:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 24, 2023, 12:25:09 AMI count 9 Swedish-language children's books on the top 100. Not bad.

Astrid Lindgren and Tove Jansson :wub:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 24, 2023, 12:45:41 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 24, 2023, 05:49:51 AMStrange that the list has Alan Garner's The Owl Service but not his superior The Weirdstone of Brisingamen.  The former was made into a TV series, so maybe that explains it.

Also, some of these works do not seem to me to be children's literature.  LOTR, for instance, uses vocabulary that few children will have yet mastered.

At least they didn't have anything by Charles Dickens; Oliver Twist is wasted on the young

I was going to call out LoTR; but I first read it when I was a tween, (and I doubt I'm the only one on the forum who did so), so maybe.  I did skip over the poetry, though, so maybe not. 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on May 24, 2023, 12:51:45 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 24, 2023, 12:45:41 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 24, 2023, 05:49:51 AMStrange that the list has Alan Garner's The Owl Service but not his superior The Weirdstone of Brisingamen.  The former was made into a TV series, so maybe that explains it.

Also, some of these works do not seem to me to be children's literature.  LOTR, for instance, uses vocabulary that few children will have yet mastered.

At least they didn't have anything by Charles Dickens; Oliver Twist is wasted on the young

I was going to call out LoTR; but I first read it when I was a tween, (and I doubt I'm the only one on the forum who did so), so maybe.  I did skip over the poetry, though, so maybe not. 

Definitely not - I read it when I was 10-12 or so.

And I skipped the songs/poetry also. :hug:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josquius on May 24, 2023, 01:38:24 PM
Yes. Same. It was in primary school for sure.
Though I do remember Sauron /Sarumon confusing the shit out of me.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on May 24, 2023, 05:22:23 PM
Quote from: Josquius on May 24, 2023, 01:38:24 PMYes. Same. It was in primary school for sure.
Though I do remember Sauron /Sarumon confusing the shit out of me.

Josq, Wasn't she from your neck of the woods and also married to Sarudad?  :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on May 24, 2023, 06:21:18 PM
You'd really have to work at it to convince me that JRRT wrote the Lord of the Rings books for children. Being written for children is one of the defining characteristics of children's literature.  The Hobbit was written for children, which is why it has a very different vocabulary than LOTR and a much more simple structure.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 24, 2023, 08:14:00 PM
No Chitty Chitty Bang Bang?  No Narnia books?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on May 24, 2023, 08:19:42 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 24, 2023, 08:14:00 PMNo Chitty Chitty Bang Bang?  No Narnia books?

The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe is number 7.

My first thought when seeing the list was: How can Alice in Wonderland be #2 and Through the Looking Glass and What Alice Found There not even chart?  (There are two Harry Potter books in there, but it looks like they tried to avoid sequels.)

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on May 25, 2023, 03:28:41 PM
Got another three books from Oxbow:

The Viking Way: Magic & Mind in Late Iron Age Scandinavia by Neil Price

Heimskringla: An Interpretation by Birgit Sawyer

Kaupang in Skiringssal Vol 1 - Dagfinn Skre (Editor)

I am: pretty excited :nerd:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josquius on May 25, 2023, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: mongers on May 24, 2023, 05:22:23 PM
Quote from: Josquius on May 24, 2023, 01:38:24 PMYes. Same. It was in primary school for sure.
Though I do remember Sauron /Sarumon confusing the shit out of me.

Josq, Wasn't she from your neck of the woods and also married to Sarudad?  :bowler:

You're thinking of Sarumam. ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on May 25, 2023, 04:20:59 PM
Quote from: Josquius on May 25, 2023, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: mongers on May 24, 2023, 05:22:23 PM
Quote from: Josquius on May 24, 2023, 01:38:24 PMYes. Same. It was in primary school for sure.
Though I do remember Sauron /Sarumon confusing the shit out of me.

Josq, Wasn't she from your neck of the woods and also married to Sarudad?  :bowler:

You're thinking of Sarumam. ;)

Pretty sure it's Suriname...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 29, 2023, 11:03:36 AM
Quote from: mongers on May 23, 2023, 06:32:02 PM'The Anglo-Saxons' by Marc Morris, really should have been subtitled a political-dynastic history, as it has far to little to say about the economic and social developments during the period. So great if you want to read about the late Anglo-Saxon penchant for poisoning rival.  :bowler:

I don't think that is fair.  He has a whole chapter on Dunstan and the importance of the monastic reform movement, both culturally and economically.  If anything, I think he went a bit overboard there.  Reading listings of areas where the economic elite developed a feudal type economy was a bit like reading Leviticus.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 07, 2023, 03:57:22 PM
I finally got around to reading The Silmarillion; it was fun, the unornamented prose reminded me of the prose Eddas.  (Which probably was the point.)

Question for the Tolkien scholars; why do the elves feel compelled to leave Middle Earth before the One Ring is destroyed (and therefore the three rings still are able to preserve beauty in the world)?  Also why isn't the Akallabêth the end of an age?

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on June 07, 2023, 07:35:42 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on June 07, 2023, 03:57:22 PMI finally got around to reading The Silmarillion; it was fun, the unornamented prose reminded me of the prose Eddas.  (Which probably was the point.)

Question for the Tolkien scholars; why do the elves feel compelled to leave Middle Earth before the One Ring is destroyed (and therefore the three rings still are able to preserve beauty in the world)?  Also why isn't the Akallabêth the end of an age?

Magic had been fading from Middle Earth since the War of the Valar.  Many elves had begun "regressing," so to speak, to their roots as mere people of the forest, less and less likely to perceive the magic of the stars.  Others fled to avoid that.

The Akallabêth wasn't the end of an age in Middle Earth because it didn't happen in Middle Earth.  As far as the inhabitants there were concerned, the fall of Sauron was much more compelling as the end of an age.  I've always wondered, though, how long after the events at the end of the First and Second Ages people started seeing them as actually ending an age.  The Shire Reckoning didn't change with the end of the Third Age.

As far as going "into the West," one of the more interesting details is that, to Tolkien, "going West" was WW1 British Army slang for dying.  Coincidence?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 09, 2023, 03:25:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 07, 2023, 07:35:42 PMMagic had been fading from Middle Earth since the War of the Valar.  Many elves had begun "regressing," so to speak, to their roots as mere people of the forest, less and less likely to perceive the magic of the stars.  Others fled to avoid that.

That makes sense; the decay of magic is a repeated theme in the book.

QuoteThe Akallabêth wasn't the end of an age in Middle Earth because it didn't happen in Middle Earth.  As far as the inhabitants there were concerned, the fall of Sauron was much more compelling as the end of an age.  I've always wondered, though, how long after the events at the end of the First and Second Ages people started seeing them as actually ending an age.  The Shire Reckoning didn't change with the end of the Third Age.

I guess that's fair.  I was just thinking that the Akallabêth literally reshaped the world it should have been given significance.  Though, thinking it over, going from a flat to a round world might not have been perceptible to anyone other than sea-faring civilizations (maybe nomads who covered great distances as well.)

QuoteAs far as going "into the West," one of the more interesting details is that, to Tolkien, "going West" was WW1 British Army slang for dying.  Coincidence?

I think that was intentional.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on June 21, 2023, 04:07:37 PM
Keeping with Tolkien, I re-read The Hobbit.  I used to imagine Gandalf with the John Huston voice, now I hear him with the Ian McKellen voice.  I'm not sure if that's better or worse. :unsure:

This time through I thought the part where the narrator explains that the Battle of Five Armies was the most miserable of Bilbo's experience, therefore the most fondly recollected, was insightful.  Also The message that the world would be a better place if we were all a little more concerned with getting a good breakfast and less concerned about gold was every bit as relevant today as it was in 1937.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on June 21, 2023, 05:17:24 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on June 09, 2023, 03:25:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 07, 2023, 07:35:42 PMAs far as going "into the West," one of the more interesting details is that, to Tolkien, "going West" was WW1 British Army slang for dying.  Coincidence?

I think that was intentional.

I agree that it was intentional, but what isn't clear is whether Tolkien expected his readers to know the significance; were the readers supposed to understand that Frodo et al were dead at the end of the third book? 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on July 05, 2023, 08:51:32 AM
Medieval Military Combat: Battle Tactics and Fighting Techniques of the Wars of the Roses, by Lewis. The author uses personal war experience, the experiences of reenactors, and basic reasoning to describe how medieval armies likely fought in practice. It had gotten pretty bad reviews, so I came to this with low expectations. It's not that horrible. He speaks of the necessity or rotating fighters since you can't physically fight for hours without breaks, but is unable to provide evidence describing how this was done in practice. Seems to me that a natural ebb and flow of combat activity could have solved the same problem. He also argues that medieval battles were smaller than commonly believed, which wouldn't surprise me is true to some extent, but the evidence is fairly weak. For instance, comparing how many soldiers could be raised for a campaign overseas may not be directly applicable to raising an army for a couple of weeks worth of campaigning in England, and looking at the size of towns when a majority of the population lived in the countryside is problematic. When it comes to numbers killed at Towton, given by some contemporary sources as 20,000, he asks "where are the bodies?". A reasonable question, but not in itself enough. But some guy a week after the battle saying that 20,000 had been killed IS very weak stuff (for one thing, how would he know this?), and I'm not sure what historians today actually believe are realistic numbers.

Persians, The Age of the Great Kings, by Llewellyn-Jones. An odd one this. The author complains about the Greek-centred image of the Persian Empire people in the West have always had, and says that the Persian story should be told from the Persian perspective. He doesn't like the portrayal of Persia as a land of despotic kings, exotic methods of execution, or porno-like harems. Then goes on to use mostly Greek sources to tell the lurid family history of the Achaemenids, including detailed descriptions of methods of execution and all, and without using footnotes. At first the thought struck me that this was some kind of meta stuff, but I don't think it is. Some strange arguments are included. For instance, when the Persians marched against Greece Greek sources describe how the King stopped at a tree the army passed, decorated it with gold and put an armed guard to protect it and basically worshipped it. The author claims that this was just a Greek way to paint the Persians as weirdly stupid, but then goes on to describe how trees were religiously important to the Persians, and decorating them etc is even portrayed on seals. So which is it? The book is a nice read, but NOT the definitive work on the Achaemenids.

Atatürk. This is the first book I've read that is written by A Mango. A nice fat biography of Mustafa Kemal (Atatürk). I've only known the broad outlines of his story so I found it informative, but I am in no position to judge its accuracy. I think a more modern book (it was published in 1999 and the author was born in 1926) would have said more about his sexuality, which from the description gives off vibes of unorthodoxy. But since his political work is the main reason to read about him this isn't really a negative.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Hamilcar on July 05, 2023, 08:57:51 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 07, 2023, 07:35:42 PMAs far as going "into the West," one of the more interesting details is that, to Tolkien, "going West" was WW1 British Army slang for dying.  Coincidence?

Oh interesting! I didn't know that...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Hamilcar on July 05, 2023, 08:59:13 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 21, 2023, 05:17:24 PMI agree that it was intentional, but what isn't clear is whether Tolkien expected his readers to know the significance; were the readers supposed to understand that Frodo et al were dead at the end of the third book? 

When I was a kid reading LOTR in German I definitely did not catch on to that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on July 05, 2023, 10:10:26 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on July 05, 2023, 08:59:13 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 21, 2023, 05:17:24 PMI agree that it was intentional, but what isn't clear is whether Tolkien expected his readers to know the significance; were the readers supposed to understand that Frodo et al were dead at the end of the third book? 

When I was a kid reading LOTR in German I definitely did not catch on to that.

I didn't catch that for many years, until I started reading a lot about WW1.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on July 05, 2023, 10:19:18 AM
I think the Rest is History episode on Tolkien is really good on the context of his work.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on July 05, 2023, 10:52:51 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 05, 2023, 10:10:26 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on July 05, 2023, 08:59:13 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 21, 2023, 05:17:24 PMI agree that it was intentional, but what isn't clear is whether Tolkien expected his readers to know the significance; were the readers supposed to understand that Frodo et al were dead at the end of the third book? 

When I was a kid reading LOTR in German I definitely did not catch on to that.

I didn't catch that for many years, until I started reading a lot about WW1.

I don't remember what I thought as a kid, but as an adult I understood "going into the West" as going to Heaven or the Afterlife, which of course means dying but also much more than that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on July 06, 2023, 02:55:43 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 05, 2023, 10:10:26 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on July 05, 2023, 08:59:13 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 21, 2023, 05:17:24 PMI agree that it was intentional, but what isn't clear is whether Tolkien expected his readers to know the significance; were the readers supposed to understand that Frodo et al were dead at the end of the third book? 

When I was a kid reading LOTR in German I definitely did not catch on to that.

I didn't catch that for many years, until I started reading a lot about WW1.

I definitely missed that.  Many thanks.  And reminds me, I need to reread it.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on July 06, 2023, 05:43:48 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 06, 2023, 02:55:43 PMI definitely missed that.  Many thanks.  And reminds me, I need to reread it.  :)

Look also for the almost word-for-word (IIRC - I'm still unpacking my book boxes) wording between how Gandalf escribes death to Pippin in Minas Tirith and how Tolkien describes the arrival of the White Ship in Aman.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on July 06, 2023, 05:46:55 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 06, 2023, 05:43:48 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 06, 2023, 02:55:43 PMI definitely missed that.  Many thanks.  And reminds me, I need to reread it.  :)

Look also for the almost word-for-word (IIRC - I'm still unpacking my book boxes) wording between how Gandalf escribes death to Pippin in Minas Tirith and how Tolkien describes the arrival of the White Ship in Aman.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on July 08, 2023, 06:16:13 PM
I love this thread in general and even more when there is Tolkien discussion where I learn new little pieces of information!  :wub:

I've been on a Kingdom of Jerusalem/Outremer kick of late. I've been reading The Land Beyond the Sea by Sharon Kay Penman (historical fiction set during the tail end of Crusader control of Jerusalem for the first time in the late 12th century) as well as a few other non-fiction books/essay collections on the topic and reading/re-reading a lot of the Vampire: The Dark Ages books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on July 08, 2023, 08:49:25 PM
When you get a chance I try recommend her book

The Sunne in Splendor
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on July 08, 2023, 10:26:44 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 08, 2023, 08:49:25 PMWhen you get a chance I try recommend her book

The Sunne in Splendor
I read it and loved it! I'm a huge fan of the Wars of the Roses era. I actually wrote my senior research paper in college on Sir Anthony Woodville!  :goodboy:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on July 08, 2023, 11:01:41 PM
Quote from: Sophie Scholl on July 08, 2023, 10:26:44 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 08, 2023, 08:49:25 PMWhen you get a chance I try recommend her book

The Sunne in Splendor
I read it and loved it! I'm a huge fan of the Wars of the Roses era. I actually wrote my senior research paper in college on Sir Anthony Woodville!  :goodboy:

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on July 20, 2023, 02:27:13 PM
Short biographies anyone ?

Because I'm such a lightweight and have limited time left to read full/lengthy biographies, instead I been reading a lot of these small books from OUP:

Oliver Cromwell - Amazon Books (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008B395X6?notRedirectToSDP=1&ref_=dbs_mng_calw_11&storeType=ebooks)

Those are taken from the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography available here:
Oxford Dictionary Of National Biography (https://www.oxforddnb.com/)

And I'm enjoying a lot of the content, makes a nice change from reading wiki pages about historical figures.

Most of the content should be free to view, if you enter your library or university card, including it seems plenty of US education institutes.
 
But for some reason my county library, has a cheaper subscription so only the free content is fully accessible, still plenty to consumer like these articles:

Wells, Herbert George [H. G. Wells] (https://www.oxforddnb.com/display/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0001/odnb-9780198614128-e-36831?rskey=G9XrcN&result=1)

Swift, Jonathan (https://www.oxforddnb.com/display/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0001/odnb-9780198614128-e-26833#odnb-9780198614128-e-26833)

Newton, Sir Isaac (https://www.oxforddnb.com/display/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0001/odnb-9780198614128-e-20059#odnb-9780198614128-e-20059)

Owen, Wilfred Edward Salter (https://www.oxforddnb.com/display/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0001/odnb-9780198614128-e-37828)

Dickens, Charles John Huffam (https://www.oxforddnb.com/display/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0001/odnb-9780198614128-e-7599?rskey=ul7g6q&result=2)

Lawrence, Thomas Edward [known as Lawrence of Arabia] (https://www.oxforddnb.com/display/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0001/odnb-9780198614128-e-34440?rskey=b8gmxM&result=134)

Charles I (https://www.oxforddnb.com/display/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0001/odnb-9780198614128-e-5143)

Darwin, Charles Robert (https://www.oxforddnb.com/display/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0001/odnb-9780198614128-e-7176?rskey=rXkmdZ&result=2)

Charles II (https://www.oxforddnb.com/display/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0001/odnb-9780198614128-e-5144)

Clive, Robert, first Baron Clive of Plassey (https://www.oxforddnb.com/display/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0001/odnb-9780198614128-e-5697#odnb-9780198614128-e-5697)





 
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on July 26, 2023, 03:42:00 PM
I read a biography of Jim Henson.  I didn't realize he was such a player; to the point that his girlfriends took a pew at his funeral (and his funeral was at St. John the Divine's in New York.  I've seen it, those pews aren't small.)  I also learned that he hadn't actually refused treatment because he was a Christian Scientist (as had been reported at the time of his death); but instead he was so rarely sick that he preferred just to power through colds rather than see a doctor.  Jim had been raised a Christian Scientist (which is probably why he was so relentlessly optimistic) but hadn't practiced the faith as an adult.

It was a fun read; Henson was overflowing with ideas which only a tiny fraction ever made it to production (and even then he was constantly working.)  It's amazing how much he did, and how much more he wanted to do.  He did seem to have the same flaw as George Lucas, where he would sometimes let the technology drive the story rather than the other way around (The Dark Crystal and Labyrinth probably being the best examples.)

I know we discussed the movie "The Witches" when Dahl's books were being altered.  The happy ending was the idea of the director and Dahl was absolutely apoplectic about it, to the point where he was threatening to hold news conferences to tell children (and their parents) not to see the movie.  (Jim apologized profusely enough to calm him down.)

My favorite anecdote was the time Jim Henson dropped acid and... it did absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on August 06, 2023, 05:01:06 PM
I'm re-reading The Fellowship of the Rings; a lot of things make a great deal more sense after having read the Silmarillion.  I'm impressed that he took his world building so far that he's even written little rhyming proverbs for it like:

"The wolf that one hears is worse than the orc that one fears"

and

"Where the warg howls, there also the orc prowls."

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on August 17, 2023, 01:06:28 AM
I'm currently reading two fantasy books. One on kindle, one is my audiobook for my way to/from work..

Scott Bakker - The Darkness That Comes Before (Book I of The Prince of Nothing trilogy), ebook

I came across this when looking for fantasy books that have a Dark Souls-y vibe. I don't think this one particularly does, and I'm not even quite sure why I got hooked on it. It's set in a world set ca. 2000 years after the First Apocalypse. The general background draws from the first crusades, jihads, Late Byzantium, and features on the surface the preparations of a Holy War by the Men of the Tusk (the "church", led by a new charismatic leader), against the "heathens" who occupy a holy city. The Emperor of a formerly glorious empire is trying to use this as a means to restore the former glory, by trying to elicit guarantees that any conquered lands go to the empire in exchange for much needed provisions and providing the leadership of his brother, a brilliant general who recently won a resounding victory against the barbarians. Below that there's a shady shadow war between different magic schools, the possible return of an old evil, and the enigmatic Dunyain of the Anasurimbor line where father has summoned son to join him in the holy city of Shimeh (the target of the holy war).

The story doesn't have much action, but a lot of introspection by the viewpoint characters (the emperor, his brother, Anasurimbor Kellhus, Drusas Achamian (from a magic school that relives the events of the previous apocalypse every night in their dreams), a prositute lover of Drusas, the Emperor, his brother, a barbarian seeking revenge ... ), and heavy with "fantasy words" (names of places, often several words for the same country/peoples), but it's oddly compelling to me for its weaving of historic setting and context (and not nearly as dense as Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen). It's bleak (someone described it as Song of Ice and Fire without the lighthearted bits, though tbh I find it a bit lighter, e.g. it has no child abuse so far :P ), but so far not too much so. The amount of introspection is maybe to be expected, since the author, according to Wiki, "spends his time writing split between his fiction and his ongoing philosophic inquiry". :P

I'm closing in on the final 10% of the frst book, and the strands of events are starting to run together.



The other book is from my list of "fantasy bestsellers I never read" - Terry Brooks' The Sword of Shannara (audio book).

I'm only still at the beginning, but it touches so many tropes it's a bit hard not to cringe. But it's from 1977, so I'm giving it a pass, as it was one of the earlier ones to adopt them.

Still, the opening owes a lot to LotR. Mysterious wise man revealing history and events to the young main characters. Young "chosen one" and his loyal friend. The secluded peaceful home to start from (with humans replacing hobbits). Mysterious dark figures hunting for the main characters. Having to sneak out to escape detection. A magic artifact as central macguffin. A gruff warrior stranger following the wise man as (brief) guide ...  :D

(The only thing I know about the books is that it's set in a post-apocalyptic world, so exposition heavy the discussion at the start between Shea and Allanon about the merits/drawbacks of isolationism, or centralized government vs. small independent communes was amusing and seemed very thinly veiled author commentary :lol: )

Will keep listening, since the story is compelling enough, though it's now hard to stop looking for more LotR parallels.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on August 17, 2023, 08:05:11 AM
The Sword of Shannara was a direct rip off of Lord of the Rings, but that actually added to its popularity.  I haven't heard the name in ages, though, so it didn't have the legs LotR had.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 17, 2023, 09:25:23 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 17, 2023, 08:05:11 AMThe Sword of Shannara was a direct rip off of Lord of the Rings, but that actually added to its popularity.  I haven't heard the name in ages, though, so it didn't have the legs LotR had.

And a poor imitation
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on August 17, 2023, 03:31:57 PM
The Shannara stories went somewhere else eventually though and ended up as some kind of fantasy steam-punk with druids.

I read them as a kid, started with Heritage of Shannara series, which is different enough from LotR. Can't say I really recommend them, bet there's also a lot of worse crap out there. Or at least there's worse crap out there. Some at least.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 25, 2023, 06:37:08 PM
Just finsihed Audrey Magee's The Colony, which I absolutely loved. It's basically set in the summer of 1979, when the Troubles were arguably peaking, on a small island off the west coast of Ireland where an English painter arrives to paint the cliffs and is shortly (and unhappily) joined by a French linguist in the fifth year of his study of the growth of bilingualism on this Irish-speaking island.

But mainly mentioning here as I have never had such a strong actor playing x character response as a young Barry Keoghan playing James (or Seamus as the Frenchman insists) the 15 year old boy on the island who wants to leave.

Brilliant book though - strongly recommend it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on August 25, 2023, 08:06:12 PM
I've picked up where I left off years ago : Star Trek DTI 2.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on August 27, 2023, 08:24:23 AM
Saw an original edition of Robert Burton's 'Anatomy of Melancholy' in the chain library on Friday, shall I get a copy to read? :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 30, 2023, 09:46:36 AM
Medieval Military Medicine: From the Vikings to the High Middle Ages, by Burfield. Pretty interesting about an area that is rarely treated in any depth. What's striking is how much they actually tried to do, and sometimes successfully. I had heard about a lot of the stuff, like wrapping a copper sheet around a broken bone. Putting intestines that have fallen out back in and sewing up the belly is one thing, but I didn't know that they at least occasionally managed to mend broken intestines. Also includes a section on PTSD and similar.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on August 30, 2023, 10:22:45 PM
Oh that's fascinating. Is this a recent book?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 31, 2023, 12:15:29 AM
Yeah, from 2022.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on August 31, 2023, 02:32:09 PM
River Kings: The Vikings from Scandinavia to the Silk Roads, by Jarman. A nice accessible overview of the latest archaeological results and what we know of the Viking trade network from the Middle East to the British Isles. Probably extra enlightening if you've only read about Vikings in a British Isles context.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 31, 2023, 04:07:23 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 31, 2023, 02:32:09 PMRiver Kings: The Vikings from Scandinavia to the Silk Roads, by Jarman. A nice accessible overview of the latest archaeological results and what we know of the Viking trade network from the Middle East to the British Isles. Probably extra enlightening if you've only read about Vikings in a British Isles context.


I also thought it was excellent.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 01, 2023, 11:27:04 PM
I've been revisiting Dune. I really enjoy the world building, but the inner monologues are way overdone. Another thing, all of the film adaptations seem to dilute Jessica's role quite a bit.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: viper37 on September 04, 2023, 07:45:19 PM
Began reading the Saxon stories by Bernard Cromwell, the books that inspired the tv show The Last Kingdom.

For the few quiet moments I can get to myself, I can't leave my tablet as I am engulfed in the stories.

I knew it would obviously be very different from the tv show, they do not have a budget constraint, they can go where they please, have as many characters as they please, fight as many battles as they want, and obviously, this being about Vikings, be on a ship much more often than the tv show could have ever afforded.

Now, I'll have to rewatch that series once I finish the books. :)

Anyone who enjoyed the show and hasn't read the books should do so.

The politics of the time are similarly described as in the show, but the duality/conflict of Uthred, a Saxon with mixed allegiance, thorn between his friendships/love of Saxons and Vikings is much more detailed than on tv.

Some characters have bigger roles, some have much smaller roles.  It's so different that it's like revisiting an entire new set of stories in the same universe. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on September 05, 2023, 07:45:31 AM
I liked the first books of Cornwell's Sharpe series and his Warlord Chronicles, but I'd be interested in your opinion of how well his writing stands up in later books (say, past book 4).  It seemed to me that the later Sharpe books were being written just for the money.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 05, 2023, 08:52:19 AM
The issue with the later books is that he repeats the same formula.

It's a good formula but after about six books, it gets less interesting to read.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on September 05, 2023, 11:44:12 AM
I'm interested in what you think the formula is?

I read the first Sharpe and the first Uthred books, and they struck me as having the same formula. No harm in that - I like a number of formulas - but this one wasn't for me.

The key bits I recall of the formula is mostly about the Antagonist:

- Antagonist dislikes the protagonist even before events get going.
- The Antagonist is internal to the protagonists group, and has some standing. They're potentially capable of turning decent allies and friends of the protagonist against him by means of lies and manipulation (or outright hostile acts that violate the group's code, but are hidden from view).
- Antagonist gets plot going by intending to carry out gross sexual assault, but the protagonist stops it.
- This causes the Antagonist to really hate the protagonist.
- At the end of the first book, the Protagonist foils the Antagonist's plans but the Antagonist is not exposed. You know the Antagonist will be back for more rounds very soon.

... what else did you see in the way of formula? And do you agree that the formula was very similar across Uthred and Sharpe?

... and again, nothing against formulas. Some of my favourite reading includes formulas. I really wanted to like both Sharpe and Uthred, but just didn't continue with them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 05, 2023, 12:11:08 PM
Yes, I think that is accurate with a couple of additions.  The conflict does not always arise because of a sexual assault - although that is a common theme.  But it is always a result of the antagonist's moral turpitude and the protagonist's superior moral compass. The conflict is always resolved in a way that comes close to pulling the mask of deception off the antagonist but not quite. And you are right, in the end, there is always the threat that the antagonist will strike back.

Also, the protagonist is not part of the world that is created. Sharpe and Uhtred are extraordinary in every way.  Part of what makes them extraordinary is they do not belong within the cultural or social context in which they find themselves.

One of things I liked about O'Brian's books is that the characters fit into the world and that is a quality missing in the Cornwell books.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on September 05, 2023, 12:35:13 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 05, 2023, 12:11:08 PMAlso, the protagonist is not part of the world that is created. Sharpe and Uhtred are extraordinary in every way.  Part of what makes them extraordinary is they do not belong within the cultural or social context in which they find themselves.

One of things I liked about O'Brian's books is that the characters fit into the world and that is a quality missing in the Cornwell books.

That's a really good point about Cornwell's heroes, though I didn't pin that down myself until you pointed it out.  They are modern men living in a non-modern world.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: viper37 on September 05, 2023, 10:20:05 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 05, 2023, 07:45:31 AMI liked the first books of Cornwell's Sharpe series and his Warlord Chronicles, but I'd be interested in your opinion of how well his writing stands up in later books (say, past book 4).  It seemed to me that the later Sharpe books were being written just for the money.
I just finished the 5th novel yesterday night.

It is similar to the tv series, albeit larger in scope.  So far, I have not felt it too repetitive, but yes Uthred is not a Christian and that creates frictions with Alfred and his advisers.

Is it a repetition or a central theme to the story,  I can not say.  I have books 1-6 on my tablet right now.  I began my reading earlier this summer, as time permits.

Like I said, I find the show to he a faithful adaptation of the books so far, within their budget constraints.  They probably did a better job translating this author's vision to tv than Amaxon did with the Rings of Power. ;)

But i'll be digging into that 6th book and tell you more later. :)


Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 07, 2023, 01:35:21 AM
The White Ship: Conquest, Anarchy and the Wrecking of Henry I's Dream, by Spencer. Nice overview of Anglo-Norman history from the Conqueror to the Anarchy, with the White Ship disaster as a pivotal event. The White Ship has always kind of stood out even 900 years later, I suppose it's the young and powerful partying crowd, the calm autumn night, and the completely avoidable loss of the ship.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on September 07, 2023, 11:28:54 AM
Just finished Heimskringla: An Interpretation by Birgit Sawyer - an analysis of Snorri Sturluson saga about Norwegian kings and related context.

Rereading C.S. Forester's Hornblower series. It's been long enough that I don't remember any of it, and I'm really enjoying myself.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josquius on September 07, 2023, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: viper37 on September 05, 2023, 10:20:05 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 05, 2023, 07:45:31 AMI liked the first books of Cornwell's Sharpe series and his Warlord Chronicles, but I'd be interested in your opinion of how well his writing stands up in later books (say, past book 4).  It seemed to me that the later Sharpe books were being written just for the money.
I just finished the 5th novel yesterday night.

It is similar to the tv series, albeit larger in scope.  So far, I have not felt it too repetitive, but yes Uthred is not a Christian and that creates frictions with Alfred and his advisers.

Is it a repetition or a central theme to the story,  I can not say.  I have books 1-6 on my tablet right now.  I began my reading earlier this summer, as time permits.

Like I said, I find the show to he a faithful adaptation of the books so far, within their budget constraints.  They probably did a better job translating this author's vision to tv than Amaxon did with the Rings of Power. ;)

But i'll be digging into that 6th book and tell you more later. :)




Repetition is a definite problem. Sharpe books are best read with years between them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 08, 2023, 10:31:40 AM
Vikingatidens människooffer (Viking Age Human Sacrifice), by Wikström af Edholm. I don't ususally mention Swedish-language books here, but since it's part of my current Dark Ages theme I thought I would mention this one. Modern overview of the evidence regarding human sacrifice in the Viking Age, and as expected written sources, both Scandinavian and non-Scandinavian, and archaeology all suggest that it was fairly common in Viking society, though somewhat extravagant as humans were expensive. Two common types were hanging combined with spearing (likely inspired by/related to Odin myths) and chopping into pieces including slashing off the top of the skull (likely inspired by/related to the Ymir myth). In the 20th century some historians were in denial about Viking human sacrifice, just like they were about Viking warrior women, but hopefully that era is behind us.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: barkdreg on September 08, 2023, 10:53:50 AM
Last day of a Malazan series humble bundle. Good value for money.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on September 08, 2023, 11:04:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 08, 2023, 10:31:40 AMVikingatidens människooffer (Viking Age Human Sacrifice), by Wikström af Edholm. I don't ususally mention Swedish-language books here, but since it's part of my current Dark Ages theme I thought I would mention this one. Modern overview of the evidence regarding human sacrifice in the Viking Age, and as expected written sources, both Scandinavian and non-Scandinavian, and archaeology all suggest that it was fairly common in Viking society, though somewhat extravagant as humans were expensive. Two common types were hanging combined with spearing (likely inspired by/related to Odin myths) and chopping into pieces including slashing off the top of the skull (likely inspired by/related to the Ymir myth). In the 20th century some historians were in denial about Viking human sacrifice, just like they were about Viking warrior women, but hopefully that era is behind us.

In denial that they did exist, or in denial that they didn't exist?

I know nothing of the topic, but could see it going either way.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on September 08, 2023, 04:33:12 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 08, 2023, 11:04:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 08, 2023, 10:31:40 AMVikingatidens människooffer (Viking Age Human Sacrifice), by Wikström af Edholm. I don't ususally mention Swedish-language books here, but since it's part of my current Dark Ages theme I thought I would mention this one. Modern overview of the evidence regarding human sacrifice in the Viking Age, and as expected written sources, both Scandinavian and non-Scandinavian, and archaeology all suggest that it was fairly common in Viking society, though somewhat extravagant as humans were expensive. Two common types were hanging combined with spearing (likely inspired by/related to Odin myths) and chopping into pieces including slashing off the top of the skull (likely inspired by/related to the Ymir myth). In the 20th century some historians were in denial about Viking human sacrifice, just like they were about Viking warrior women, but hopefully that era is behind us.

In denial that they did exist, or in denial that they didn't exist?

I know nothing of the topic, but could see it going either way.

They refused to believe that they existed. For human sacrfice: "that was just Christians slandering pagans", for women warriors: "ew powerful independent women, as if".
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Legbiter on September 08, 2023, 04:48:44 PM
Finally reading Blood Meridian. The transition between scalping Apaches, then peaceful Indians and finally just regular Mexicans is really well done. Judge Holden is a little bit too on the nose. This story will not have any sort of "happy ending". Just pure Norse Saga Örlög/Fate...
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on September 08, 2023, 05:45:53 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on September 08, 2023, 04:48:44 PMFinally reading Blood Meridian. The transition between scalping Apaches, then peaceful Indians and finally just regular Mexicans is really well done. Judge Holden is a little bit too on the nose. This story will not have any sort of "happy ending". Just pure Norse Saga Örlög/Fate...
I had to stop that one.  It's a little too much.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on September 10, 2023, 03:38:20 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 08, 2023, 05:45:53 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on September 08, 2023, 04:48:44 PMFinally reading Blood Meridian. The transition between scalping Apaches, then peaceful Indians and finally just regular Mexicans is really well done. Judge Holden is a little bit too on the nose. This story will not have any sort of "happy ending". Just pure Norse Saga Örlög/Fate...
I had to stop that one.  It's a little too much.

I got through it but only just. Just started Suttree which is also tough so far but only 20 pages in
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on September 20, 2023, 06:15:45 AM
Is Piketty's 'Capital in the Twenty-First Century' worth a read or shall I go with the other book to hand, Geezer Butler's autiobiography? :hmm:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on September 20, 2023, 09:12:33 AM
Worth a read. We can skip all the charts in the math and just read his analysis and trust that he's got the math math right
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on September 20, 2023, 09:29:04 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 20, 2023, 09:12:33 AMWorth a read. We can skip all the charts in the math and just read his analysis and trust that he's got the math math right

Yes I had an initial skim and though a bit along those lines. :cheers:

Helpfully the previous owner had gone through it underlining many of the, I assume key passages. :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 21, 2023, 11:15:16 AM
Quote from: mongers on September 20, 2023, 06:15:45 AMIs Piketty's 'Capital in the Twenty-First Century' worth a read or shall I go with the other book to hand, Geezer Butler's autiobiography? :hmm:

I liked it but others' mileage may vary.  It's not a light summer read but there are worse in the genre.  Not as big a fan of the sequel which lacked focus.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: viper37 on September 21, 2023, 08:12:09 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 05, 2023, 07:45:31 AMI liked the first books of Cornwell's Sharpe series and his Warlord Chronicles, but I'd be interested in your opinion of how well his writing stands up in later books (say, past book 4).  It seemed to me that the later Sharpe books were being written just for the money.
I am on book 7 now.  It is still well written, but there is definitely a repeat of previous stories there.  It's told differently, of course, but it amounts to the same basic tale, really.  I feel it's a bit of lazy writing from the author here.  He needed an excuse to move his hero from one part of England to the other and he repeated a previous theme he used, in a very, very similar setting to one of his previous books (#4, IIRC).

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 23, 2023, 02:06:13 PM
Following the Dragonlance discussion recently - Humblebundle has a collection of 40+ Shadowrun Legends books (which is what they call the novels from the 90s, kinda like Star Wars Legends, I guess :P ).

If anyone feels nostalgic for those books, it's under €17 for the entire bundle:

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/shadowrun-legends-catalyst-game-labs-books
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Grey Fox on September 25, 2023, 09:55:47 AM
If you are not nostalgic for it?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 26, 2023, 12:56:36 AM
No idea. I read some books while in military hospital almost 30 years ago and remember little of their quality. (I was fascinated by the setting, but had no one to play with; a guy I shared the hospital room with was a fan though and had some books with him).

(Side note: staying in a hospital in the 90s, before mobile internet/smartphones was HELL. Except portable music players (walkman, discman) and books, the best you could hope for was TV in your room for entertainment, or maybe board games/cards. The military hospital didn't have a TV per room by default, you had to rent a tiny one for 6 German Marks/day, and then you only had (bad) aerial reception. :bleeding: )
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on September 28, 2023, 04:10:08 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 26, 2023, 12:56:36 AMNo idea. I read some books while in military hospital almost 30 years ago and remember little of their quality. (I was fascinated by the setting, but had no one to play with; a guy I shared the hospital room with was a fan though and had some books with him).

Like Neuromancer, but with elves.  If I ever ran a Shadowrun campaign I'd crib the plot from Lord of the Rings and make Saruman and Sauron thinly disguised caricatures of Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg respectively (and the characters would have to destroy the METAVERSE! itself, which is the source of Zuck's power.) 

You come upon a broad art deco building in beige stone made to resemble a Mayan temple.  An enormous glowing X stands atop one corner.  This is the mighty fortress of iXengard.

Quote(Side note: staying in a hospital in the 90s, before mobile internet/smartphones was HELL. Except portable music players (walkman, discman) and books, the best you could hope for was TV in your room for entertainment, or maybe board games/cards. The military hospital didn't have a TV per room by default, you had to rent a tiny one for 6 German Marks/day, and then you only had (bad) aerial reception. :bleeding: )

It's too bad you don't have children; you could tell them how easy they have it these days.  :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on September 29, 2023, 01:26:14 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on September 28, 2023, 04:10:08 PMIt's too bad you don't have children; you could tell them how easy they have it these days.  :P

I do that occasionally with my coworkers in their early 20s. :P
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on September 29, 2023, 08:49:01 PM
I saw this and had to share it since there are a few other people who read Dragonlance Back In The Day:
381002491_7440735739276098_928563257890854660_n.jpg
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Oexmelin on October 01, 2023, 12:49:49 PM
For those who are interested, the Cundill Prize just released its shortlist:

The Huxleys: An Intimate History of Evolution, Alison Bashford | The University of Chicago Press

Red Memory: Living, Remembering and Forgetting China's Cultural Revolution, Tania Branigan | Faber & Faber (UK), W. W. Norton (US)

The Declassification Engine: What History Reveals About America's Top Secrets, Matthew Connelly | Pantheon Books

The Perfection of Nature: Animals, Breeding, and Race in the Renaissance, Mackenzie Cooley | The University of Chicago Press

Queens of a Fallen World: The Lost Women of Augustine's Confessions, Kate Cooper | Basic Books (UK, US)

Dust on the Throne: The Search for Buddhism in India, Douglas Ober | Navayana

Charged: A History of Batteries and Lessons for a Clean Energy Future, James Morton Turner | University of Washington Press

The Madman in the White House: Sigmund Freud, Ambassador Bullit, and the Lost Psychobiography of Woodrow Wilson, Patrick Weil | Harvard University Press
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 01, 2023, 03:20:42 PM
The Cretan War, 1645-1671: The Venetian-Ottoman Struggle in the Mediterranean, by Mugnai. I had to stop reading this book a few pages into the introduction. The language is I suppose a kind of English, but not of a sort recognized in the English-speaking world. While it is possible with effort to understand what the author is trying to say, life is just too short. It's not the first time I have to abandon a Helion book on Italian history because of language issues. It's unfortunate that they are unwilling or unable to have a person look over the English before publishing; the subject matter is very interesting and not widely written about in this language. I looked at the credits and acknowledgments and there is no mention of an editor.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on October 02, 2023, 12:45:39 AM
I have that book too and had the same issues. A damn shame. I'm sure a couple of weeks work by any competent English speaker could have sorted it out. Perhaps the print run was just too tiny to justify the expense  :(
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on October 11, 2023, 08:08:20 AM
Can one have too many dictionaries?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 11, 2023, 11:17:29 AM
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2023, 08:08:20 AMCan one have too many dictionaries?

Not if they eschew obfuscation.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on October 14, 2023, 02:22:55 PM
'Into the Void' - the Geezer Butler autobiography, worth if for the admitted Spinal-Tapesque moments and the matter of fact descriptions of four working-class brummie  blokes have insane adventures in the world of 70s/80s rock and roll.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on October 17, 2023, 03:57:10 PM
What's a good (preferably in-print) edition of Poe's works? Not necessarily complete, but the major fiction and poetry ones at least.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Barrister on October 17, 2023, 04:18:03 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 17, 2023, 03:57:10 PMWhat's a good (preferably in-print) edition of Poe's works? Not necessarily complete, but the major fiction and poetry ones at least.

Aw man - you just brought me back.  I read all of Poe's work as a kid in a set of 19th century prints my dad had - not first editions, but old.

I wonder what happened to them.  Maybe my dad still has them.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 17, 2023, 04:34:30 PM
I'd look for Oxord World Classics, Penguin Classics or Norton for a good well-annotated and edited collection with a decent introductory essay.

From a quick skim the 2003 Penguin Classics one seems to have a broader selection (or bigger text) as it's over 500 pages to the OWC 350 or so. The Norton is about 1,000 pages and seems fairly completist - poems, stories and letters.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 18, 2023, 12:38:05 AM
I got Lovecraft's works from Penguin Classics and they came with rich annotations that I found pretty insightful. Might be something like it exists for Poe from them?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 18, 2023, 04:16:02 AM
I had to give up buying Penguins cuz the print is so damn small
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 19, 2023, 01:54:28 PM
Might be of interest to folks here - new maor biography of Metternich just translated into English. Positive review by Christopher Clark:
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v42/n19/christopher-clark/a-rock-of-order

Read elsewhere it's not just a new telling but based on a lot of archival research, so lots of major and minor points put in a slightly different context. Arguably a little revisionist as it's broadly sympathetic to Metternich.

Edit: One for the list for me - can feel myself going on a 19th century kick soon.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: mongers on October 19, 2023, 02:03:10 PM
Stuart Maconie 'The Nanny State Made Me' - excellent entertainment.  :bowler:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on October 19, 2023, 08:25:39 PM
I breezed through The Jannisary Tree by Jason Goodwin. It's the first book of a little historical fiction detective series set in the 1830's Ottoman Empire with a eunuch court advisor/detective as the lead. I enjoyed it and plan on reading the rest of the series. Nice details on things and really makes the setting come alive with its details about food, clothing, wider culture, and the like.  :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on October 31, 2023, 09:36:18 AM
This was shared on the Paradox memes subreddit and ... I feel Sav could have made good money these days with his Anne Frank furry fanfic.

https://www.webnovel.com/book/continue-the-third-reich-in-another-world_27651572400569305

QuoteKonrad Schuster, an above average high school student, suddenly finds himself transported to a strange new world filled with swords and magic, tasked with continuing the legacy of the Third Reich (WW2 Germany) after he touched his Grandfather's old German military uniform!

He discovers a unique power that allows him to convert souls into source points. Using this power, Konrad can create anything he wants by simply imagining it! Soldiers! Guns! Tanks! Fighter Jets! Nuclear Bombs! As he explores this magical world, he must hunt and kill to expand his army and crush the locals with his overwhelming technological advantage!

But danger is never far away, and Konrad must be cautious. He knows little about this world, and every decision he makes has consequences. He must use his technological superiority to his greatest advantage!

Chapter release every 2 days

WHAT TO EXPECT: A highly competent ruthless protagonist that acts and behaves like a proper general. He becomes intimidating, commanding and doesn't hesitate if he needs to get his hands dirty. He is an evil protagonist. I hate beta MC and dense MC with a passion, so he is the exact opposite. His is cunning and dominating. TRIGGER WARNING: RACISM AND DISCRIMINATION (Against Demi-Humans)

I DO NOT SUPPORT NAZIS
Please don't take any views in my novel seriously, I just wrote this for fun, I don't support any Nazi ideals and behaviours. I just like the idea of a WW2 German army using modern equipment in a fantasy world.

Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on October 31, 2023, 03:47:47 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2023, 09:36:18 AMThis was shared on the Paradox memes subreddit and ... I feel Sav could have made good money these days with his Anne Frank furry fanfic.

https://www.webnovel.com/book/continue-the-third-reich-in-another-world_27651572400569305

QuoteKonrad Schuster, an above average high school student, suddenly finds himself transported to a strange new world filled with swords and magic, tasked with continuing the legacy of the Third Reich (WW2 Germany) after he touched his Grandfather's old German military uniform!

He discovers a unique power that allows him to convert souls into source points. Using this power, Konrad can create anything he wants by simply imagining it! Soldiers! Guns! Tanks! Fighter Jets! Nuclear Bombs! As he explores this magical world, he must hunt and kill to expand his army and crush the locals with his overwhelming technological advantage!

But danger is never far away, and Konrad must be cautious. He knows little about this world, and every decision he makes has consequences. He must use his technological superiority to his greatest advantage!

Chapter release every 2 days

WHAT TO EXPECT: A highly competent ruthless protagonist that acts and behaves like a proper general. He becomes intimidating, commanding and doesn't hesitate if he needs to get his hands dirty. He is an evil protagonist. I hate beta MC and dense MC with a passion, so he is the exact opposite. His is cunning and dominating. TRIGGER WARNING: RACISM AND DISCRIMINATION (Against Demi-Humans)

I DO NOT SUPPORT NAZIS
Please don't take any views in my novel seriously, I just wrote this for fun, I don't support any Nazi ideals and behaviours. I just like the idea of a WW2 German army using modern equipment in a fantasy world.



Heh, when I first read about "Fifty Shades of Grey," I thought I should have kept up with Fanfiction; obviously there's nothing too awful to be a bestseller.   ;)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on October 31, 2023, 06:23:06 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2023, 09:36:18 AMThis was shared on the Paradox memes subreddit and ... I feel Sav could have made good money these days with his Anne Frank furry fanfic.

https://www.webnovel.com/book/continue-the-third-reich-in-another-world_27651572400569305

QuoteKonrad Schuster, an above average high school student, suddenly finds himself transported to a strange new world filled with swords and magic, tasked with continuing the legacy of the Third Reich (WW2 Germany) after he touched his Grandfather's old German military uniform!

He discovers a unique power that allows him to convert souls into source points. Using this power, Konrad can create anything he wants by simply imagining it! Soldiers! Guns! Tanks! Fighter Jets! Nuclear Bombs! As he explores this magical world, he must hunt and kill to expand his army and crush the locals with his overwhelming technological advantage!

But danger is never far away, and Konrad must be cautious. He knows little about this world, and every decision he makes has consequences. He must use his technological superiority to his greatest advantage!

Chapter release every 2 days

WHAT TO EXPECT: A highly competent ruthless protagonist that acts and behaves like a proper general. He becomes intimidating, commanding and doesn't hesitate if he needs to get his hands dirty. He is an evil protagonist. I hate beta MC and dense MC with a passion, so he is the exact opposite. His is cunning and dominating. TRIGGER WARNING: RACISM AND DISCRIMINATION (Against Demi-Humans)

I DO NOT SUPPORT NAZIS
Please don't take any views in my novel seriously, I just wrote this for fun, I don't support any Nazi ideals and behaviours. I just like the idea of a WW2 German army using modern equipment in a fantasy world.

The book has already been written:  Lord of the Swastika (aka The Iron Dream) Wiki's summary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Dream)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Razgovory on October 31, 2023, 06:33:16 PM
Yikes.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: FunkMonk on October 31, 2023, 06:41:03 PM
"I do not support Nazis"

*Dreams about Nazis with modern weapons committing genocide*
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 08, 2023, 09:49:15 AM
Review of what sounds like a really interesting book:
QuoteA Nasty Little War review – the west's chaotic campaign to undo the Russian Revolution
Journalist Anna Reid's thrilling history throws much-needed light on the dark, bloody and sometimes absurd attempt to overthrow the Bolsheviks by the US, Britain and others
Luke Harding
Tue 7 Nov 2023 09.00 GMT

On 11 November 1918, as the first world war ended, Pte Scheu of the US army found himself in a battle. Its location was the remote frozen village of Tulgas, 200 miles south of the Russian port of Arkhangelsk. Early that morning the enemy attacked. By lunchtime two men next to Scheu had been killed. The next day was worse. "Shells were just raining about. We knew we were in for a hit," he wrote in his diary.

The soldiers bombarding Scheu's platoon were Bolsheviks. The American crawled out and hid in a nearby building. Inside he found a wounded girl, her dead family and a decapitated priest. Canadian reinforcements scattered the attackers. Scheu heard about the armistice two months later. "It doesn't mean a damn thing over here," he observed bitterly. Also, he was having a good time back at base and met three "buxom lassies" at a "Russkie party".

Scheu was part of a now forgotten expeditionary force sent to Russia in 1918. It involved guns, tanks, and uniforms, worn by 180,000 troops from 16 countries. They included soldiers from Britain, France, America and Japan, as well as Czechoslovakia, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. The intervention, as it was known, lasted two years. In almost every respect it was an abject failure, characterised by weak political leadership and delusional thinking.

A Nasty Little War by the historian and journalist Anna Reid brings this little-known period thrillingly back to life. It is a vivid and sparkling account, full of colour and dark drama. She chronicles the terrible moments of Russia's civil war – such as the pogroms against Jews – and the sometimes ridiculous behaviour of the interventionists. It was a "quixotic and tragic military adventure", she thinks. It combined – in the words of one officer – "intense seriousness" and "comic opera".

The war was the only time US troops have fought in Russia. The conflict raged across a vast area, stretching from Poland to the Pacific. It happened on stony tundra and green-gold steppe. The British led an occupation force that seized the northern ports of Murmansk and Arkhangelsk, as well as Baku on the Caspian Sea. The Japanese and Americans disembarked in Vladivostok, followed by others. There were skirmishes in Siberia and in the Black Sea port of Odesa, controlled by the French.

The allies sided with a bewildering number of factions. Their initial goal was to prevent equipment from falling into the hands of the Germans, after Moscow's new leaders – Lenin and Trotsky – signed a peace deal with Berlin. The Brest-Litovsk treaty of 1918 made huge territorial concessions. A troop ship set sail from Newcastle to the high Arctic. In one early shootout, the British fought alongside Red Guards and against the pro-German White Finns.

Germany's defeat saw a change in allied strategy. The new military objective was to help the conservative White Russians overthrow the communist regime. Western diplomats inside Russia were convinced the Bolsheviks would not last long. The prime minister in London, Lloyd George, could have sent a mighty army to march on Moscow. Instead, he dispatched a token force of a few thousand men. Most had been rated unfit for the trenches.

The Whites, meanwhile, turned out to be deeply unsympathetic. One artilleryman, writing home, described them as "generous to absurdity at times, laughter-loving frequently, devoted comrades at odd moments, delightful hosts and good talkers". They were also "lazy, untidy, pessimistic, boastful, ignorant, and dishonest". Militarily they were a "flop". Soon, they despised their western backers for not sending a bigger force to save "Holy Russia".

All sides, including the Bolsheviks, committed atrocities. The Whites, however, were especially savage. In the second half of 1919 they carried out a string of brutal pogroms in southern Russia and Ukraine. Cossack units bayoneted Jewish villagers, and raped and mutilated women. In reports back to London, British officers downplayed these crimes. As Reid observes, many felt the same prejudices, their private journals full of "witless antisemitic jibes".

Amid this horror, there was plenty of fun. Victor Cazelet – a 21-year-old captain – made friends with Baroness Buxhoeveden, an ex lady-in-waiting to the tsarina. After the royal family was shot in July 1918, the baroness rescued its pet spaniel. She rode with the British general staff in the one-time court train, now decorated with union flags, joining them in evening wear for dinner. "You will love the baroness. She is quite one of us," Cazelet wrote to his mother.

Brighter personalities realised the intervention was probably doomed. They included Edmund Ironside, who commanded allied forces in the north. He arrived in Arkhangelsk to discover the British had fallen out with the Americans over supplies of whisky. The embryo White Army didn't want to fight. There was a mutiny. "I cannot see that we are likely to do much good here," Ironside admitted, writing: "Russia is so enormous it gives one a feeling of smothering."

By early autumn 1919, the Whites controlled much of Siberia and the south. Months later, its armies began to retreat. The Red Army beat them back outside Petrograd and occupied Omsk. Winston Churchill, minister for war, and an ardent anti-Bolshevik, argued for more aid. But Lloyd George concluded Bolshevism "could not be suppressed by the sword". Kyiv fell, then Crimea. The White commander, Anton Denikin, steamed away from home land on the Emperor of India, a British warship.

Left behind in this chaos were millions of civilians. There were heartbreaking scenes as they tried to escape Bolshevik retribution. In British-occupied Novorossiysk people packed the waterfront, hoping to find a place on a boat: a school and its pupils; entire Cossack villages; and a hospital with its patients. A paddle-steamer pulled out, only to capsize, hurling hundreds into the sea. "It was bloody awful," one witness recalled.

What lessons might we learn from the intervention, more than a century later? Reid stresses the difference between 1918 and 1920 and the post-2022 western coalition that is now supporting Ukraine. In an essay justifying his invasion, Vladimir Putin blamed the Bolsheviks for creating the Ukrainian soviet socialist republic. Its borders make up today's Ukrainian state. Russia, Belarus and Ukraine are an indivisible entity, he argues.

As Reid notes, Putin is the real inheritor of the White Russian legacy. He shares the same vaulting imperial mindset and addiction to violence. Like the Whites, he is contemptuous of Ukrainians and other non-Russian peoples. In 2005 Putin arranged for Denikin's remains to be taken from the US and reburied in a Moscow monastery. Reid is cautiously optimistic Ukraine will prevail. "This time, the cause is both good and viable. Resolve seems set to stay strong," she writes. Let's hope she is right.

Luke Harding's Invasion: Russia's Bloody War and Ukraine's Fight for Survival, shortlisted for the Orwell Prize, is published by Guardian Faber

A Nasty Little War: The West's Fight to Reverse the Russian Revolution by Anna Reid is published by John Murray (£25). To support the Guardian and Observer order your copy at guardianbookshop.com. Delivery charges may apply

I find it interesting because from a UK perspective I don't think we have a vision of Britain's experience in the inter-war period. I think we actually have images of Germany and America's interwar and apply that - which is wrong. So I think there is a perception of a (slightly Poirot-ish) roaring 20s, followed by depression and grimness with fascists lurking in the corner. When, actually, the 20s when the UK experienced its economic depression. We had our only ever General Strike, there was incredible amount of military activity - a lot is imperial (Ireland, the Middle East etc) but also what seems maybe more like 20th century superpower rather than previous era great power action like intervening in Russia's civil war, Lloyd George wanting to back the Greeks v Turkey etc, the first Labour government, genuine radical left politics (I think it's still the peak of CPGB activity especially in unions).

I'm wondering if it is similar elsewhere because reading this and some other stuff I've read recently I wonder if we need to think about the 20s again (perhaps a "global history" project :lol:). I could be wrong but I think there is a more general view of the 20s through the US (art deco, cocktails, jazz etc) and Germany (Weimar cabaret, street violence). But looking at it slightly more broadly - there's so much going on everywhere. You've got so much going on.

There's the collapse of old empire's with the Russian civil war with huge international intervention, the Greeks invading Turkey for Megali Idea and Ataturk rallying the Turkish nation to force them out, the Soviet invasion of Poland and the miracle on the Vistula and the rise of the warlord era/collapse of China (Yuan Shikai falling during the war). There's challenges to surviving empires like Irish independence and civil war (arguably the first national liberation achieved by force from a European empire?), after the Jallianwala Bagh (Amritsar) massacre then Congress' non-compliance campaign and various uprisings against the British, French, Italians and Spanish in the Middle East and North Africa - plus arguably the formation of new ones, I think this is an era of expansive US intervention in Latin America. And the emergence of big structural factors that will drive 20th century politics: the creation of Saudi Arabia, the centrality of Anglo-Persian oil and new strategic importance on the Gulf and Suez for Britain especially.

That's just the stuff off the top of my head and I think a lot of it is not that well known given the size of those events - like, with this book, Western intervention in Russia. Or if you look at a map of Greece's maximum gains their war with Turkey.

Obviously in the really affected countries, like Poland, there is very strong awareness of that aspect - but I feel like it's not a period with enough interest or writing given how much it is given how much it seems like this period of intense disorder and a real crucible of the twentieth century around the world. It's perhaps in part because we know it failed. We know Japan and Germany (and the Soviets) as revisionist powers overturned it all and we live in the world that's the legacy of that conflict - but to an extent that almost feels like a 2.0 of the inter-war? :hmm:

Obvs I will get the book - and even read it at some point :ph34r:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on November 08, 2023, 10:24:46 AM
You make a good point. For example, look at the labour strife in Canada and the general strike from May to June 1919 in Winnipeg.


A lot of what happened after the war, and prior to the depression gets overshadowed by what happened next.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on November 16, 2023, 05:13:03 PM
I recently read a book (in Swedish) on ashkenazi history from 1789 to 1917 that had Jewish symbols on the cover, and decided NOT to bring it with me on a train ride (I normally bring a book to read). The reason being the recommendations from Jewish organizations in Sweden not to display any Jewish symbols, given the rampant antisemitism in Sweden. Sign of the times.

The book was interesting, I had never really read about that era of Jewish history.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 17, 2023, 10:53:26 PM
Finally finished Beverly Gage's G-Man: J Edgar Hoover and the Making of the American Century.

I was surprised to learn that this is the first biography of Hoover since the early 90s, especially as is emphasised throughout he is an excellent bureaucrat. While his long-serving secretary burned many of his papers the volume of documents that shed light on Hoover must be growing all the time as classifications and seals list. Speaking of which I was not aware that the King tapes were under seal, which will end by the end of this decade.

Gage's central argument is that Hoover is driven by two sets of principles that are (especially now) perhaps in tension. On the one hand he is a federal bureaucrat who never voted because he always lived in DC. He believes in effective federal government that is professionalised and harnessing the best that modern science can offer and is dispensed fairly dispassionately. On the other he has a committed, convservative vision of America (including in relation to race) which he is very successful at propagandising for and pushing.

These two strands, arguably, don't really come into conflict for much of his career. It is striking that the greatest expansions of Hoover's powers come under FDR at the start and LBJ - two reforming liberals. I think that looking from the perspective of Hoover has also slightly changed my view of the Eisenhower administration a bit. And part of that is that I think, though Gage doesn't make this argument, that there is a sense in which Hoover is the last of the New Deal reformers.

He is ultimately most unpopular, particularly with Congress, in his signal failure to understand (far less respond to) the New Left, black power movements and the wider social shifts of the late sixties. This is perhaps mirrored by a new radical right working in the Nixon White House who want Hoover to do all sorts of shady shit for political benefit, which he resists through classic bureaucratic jiu jitsu of entirely agreeing with their proposals, but wanting them in writing from the AG or President. They then agitate to fire Hoover, though Nixon always recoils, as an old man who's lost his fire. I think there's an argument with both that he hadn't changed. Or, perhaps, I think Gage hints that in the New Left Hoover saw a return to the first red scare and the anarchist wave of the 1920s when he started his career in the FBI - on deporting "foreign radicals".

I believe she's discovered a lot about Hoover's early life and participation in a fraternity devoted to the old south, coming from DC as a southern town. She's pretty convincing on how this (all male) institution was some of the happiest times in Hoover's life and something that perhaps shapes the FBI he creates, especially at the beginning.

On race, I thought the picture was more nuanced than I expected. Obviously he is using COINTELPRO techniques on all civil rights movements and develops an obsession with King especially. But, for example, I was not aware that by the time civil rights legislation came in, the FBI had already been infiltrating the Klan for decadees. He also appears to have been genuinely engaged on certain issues, for example lynching, perhaps mainly because vigilantism went against his belief in order but also professional law enforcement. I think his central points in the 50s and 60s are true: the FBI often didn't have jurisdiction and they couldn't get all white southern juries to indict. If his superiors wanted him to do more they needed to give the FBI the legal tools to do it. But of course Hoover was not always a scrupulous observer of jurisdiction in other cases. Similarly though not directly related to civil rights, he was strongly opposed to Japanese internment on the grounds that, in his view, it wasn't effective (and the FBI had a better, more effective alternative) but also unconstitutional - scarred, as he was, by the Palmer raids.

Reading the book I can't help but wonder if some of the problems with Hoover's time at the FBI are a little structural. I believe the US is unusual in this: the same body does law enforcement and domestic intelligence. This comes up time and again (prosecutions of communists, prosecutions of the Klan, his hatred of King and general view of communists) that Hoover is getting lots of information as a spy chief that he cannot use as a policeman without compromising his intelligence sources. So you end up with illegal and unethical police actions to force the result Hoover (the spy) "knows" it merits. It's also very good on his particular skill at getting Congress to basically launch pincer attacks by doing publicly what he can't - and on this, interestingly, he is one of (if not the first) Washington player to turn on McCarthy when he turns off all access to FBI information very early. I can't remember if it was because McCarthy went back on a deal or just went off piste and Hoover decided he wasn't reliable.

It seemed a very fair take in the end and I think that central argument is well made - and is perhaps reflected in that dual role of the FBI. Which is there from the days of FDR who creates these responsibilities - that it has always had a life in the open and a life in the shadows. On the shadow life, the stuff on Hoover and Tolson is really interesting - primarily because of the extent that they were treated by others in their circle as a couple - with a cycle that I have to say sounds like something some bougie gays do now: antiquing in New England, I think summer in California and winter in Miami. When Tolson was ill, LBJ, Pat Nixon (and I think the Reagans) all sent notes to Hoover sympathising. Hoover was rather more reluctant in encouraging the lavendar scare than I'd thought, though it made sense for obvious reasons. And it is interesting and telling that all of his flirtations appear to have been with men in an institutional setting - and an institutional setting where Hoover is their superior.

Definitely worth a read if you're interested. Although probably only if you're interested - I don't think it'll likely change or challenge anyone's perceptions of Hoover, or that there's any ground breaking new revelations.

Edit: Also, as an aside, interesting but not surprising that the President who gets Hoover to bend his principles most is LBJ who has him spying on the 64 convention to stage manage it but also to stop any potential challenge to LBJ (which just shows how much he loved a sure thing). Hoover's very reluctant at the time and then afterwards in memos keeps on referring to it sligthly euphemistically as them going too far :lol: But there is a pattern that Hoover is perhaps happiest with a Republican President - but the domestic spying is authorised by FDR, RFK signs off on the King wiretaps and LBJ also supports both the harassment of King but also using the FBI for explicitly political ends. The only President who is a meaningful check and causes real issues for him is Truman.

Now just started something that would horrify him Homintern by Gregory Woods :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on December 13, 2023, 03:05:05 PM
Just read A Short History of Drunkeness by Mark Forsyth. It's a breezy popular style history of the social phenomenon of being drunk at various times in human history and pre-history.

While the book has a bibliography, it's not a serious scholastic work. It does a good job painting evocative but occasionally irreverent pictures of the past - I certainly felt I learned something about most of the societies described.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Josquius on December 17, 2023, 11:47:39 AM
Quote from: The Brain on November 16, 2023, 05:13:03 PMI recently read a book (in Swedish) on ashkenazi history from 1789 to 1917 that had Jewish symbols on the cover, and decided NOT to bring it with me on a train ride (I normally bring a book to read). The reason being the recommendations from Jewish organizations in Sweden not to display any Jewish symbols, given the rampant antisemitism in Sweden. Sign of the times.

The book was interesting, I had never really read about that era of Jewish history.

What if its an anti semitic book?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 17, 2023, 11:51:04 AM
Quote from: Josquius on December 17, 2023, 11:47:39 AMWhat if its an anti semitic book?
QuoteKafka, esq. 🔻
@metalgearobama
Reading Mein Kampf and shaking my head the whole time so the people on the bus know I disagree with it
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 17, 2023, 12:34:08 PM
Quote from: Josquius on December 17, 2023, 11:47:39 AM
Quote from: The Brain on November 16, 2023, 05:13:03 PMI recently read a book (in Swedish) on ashkenazi history from 1789 to 1917 that had Jewish symbols on the cover, and decided NOT to bring it with me on a train ride (I normally bring a book to read). The reason being the recommendations from Jewish organizations in Sweden not to display any Jewish symbols, given the rampant antisemitism in Sweden. Sign of the times.

The book was interesting, I had never really read about that era of Jewish history.

What if its an anti semitic book?

Antisemitic messages don't appear to increase the threat level against a person in Sweden.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 17, 2023, 12:35:03 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 17, 2023, 11:51:04 AM
Quote from: Josquius on December 17, 2023, 11:47:39 AMWhat if its an anti semitic book?
QuoteKafka, esq. 🔻
@metalgearobama
Reading Mein Kampf and shaking my head the whole time so the people on the bus know I disagree with it

^_^
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 17, 2023, 01:00:35 PM
Armada: The Spanish Enterprise and England's Deliverance in 1588, by Martin and Parker. This is a new edition of  a book published in 1988, expanded to include new finds over the last decades. Very readable, and from my limited knowledge vantage point it appears definitive. The only thing that I thought was somewhat lacking was the treatment of the state of naval combat in 1588. The book describes Mediterranean and Spanish/Portuguese ships and tactics, and English ships and tactics, but is almost silent on the Dutch, and completely silent on the French and Scandinavians. It would have been interesting to read for instance the authors' take on naval aspects of the Northern Seven Years' War (1563-70). According to Baltic historians the Swedish navy at the time favored the use of purpose-built big warships with artillery standoff tactics. I would like to know if British naval historians share this view.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on December 20, 2023, 06:21:03 PM
Just finished the latest Murderbot novel, and it was, as usual in this series, excellent.  Probably not Hugo-Award-winning excellent (unlike the earlier entries, which won the 2017, 2018, and 2020 Hugo and Nebula Awards), but that's mostly because it is a continuation of the 2020 novel, and so isn't introducing as many new ideas and lacks the creepines that the unknown imposed in the first novel.

If you an SF fan and enjoy your dry humor mixed with violence and horror, definitely a buy, and if you have Kindle Unlimited all the earlier novellas and novel are available there for free.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 21, 2023, 01:39:35 AM
So how are your feelings on Alexander Skarsgård? Good fit?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 21, 2023, 02:00:13 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 20, 2023, 06:21:03 PMJust finished the latest Murderbot novel, and it was, as usual in this series, excellent.  Probably not Hugo-Award-winning excellent (unlike the earlier entries, which won the 2017, 2018, and 2020 Hugo and Nebula Awards), but that's mostly because it is a continuation of the 2020 novel, and so isn't introducing as many new ideas and lacks the creepines that the unknown imposed in the first novel.

If you an SF fan and enjoy your dry humor mixed with violence and horror, definitely a buy, and if you have Kindle Unlimited all the earlier novellas and novel are available there for free.

I picked up the bundle on Kindle the other day but have yet to start it.

I started on Gideon the Ninth since it came up quite positively in some conversations, but I'm not sure. On the one hand it has a sci-fi space gothic vibe, with death cults, necromancy, magic(?), reanimated skeleton serfs etc. Kinda Warhammer-ish. On the other hand, the main character (a woman called Gideon) and much of the narrative language is ... casually modern? I get it's a young adult book (much fantasy is), but this is a weird mix. I will probably keep going just to see where this goes, but the tone feels a bit weird. :D

From the 1st chapter:

Quote"Thirty whole minutes since I took it off, Crux," she said, hands busy. "It's almost like you want me to leave here forever. Ohhhh shit, you absolutely do though."

"You ordered a shuttle through deception," bubbled the marshal of Drearburh, whose main claim to fame was that he was more decrepit alive than some of the legitimately dead. He stood before her on the landing field and gurgled with indignation. "You falsified documents. You stole a key. You removed your cuff. You wrong this house, you misuse its goods, you steal its stock."

"Come on, Crux, we can come to some arrangement," Gideon coaxed, flipping her sword over and looking at it critically for nicks. "You hate me, I hate you. Just let me go without a fight and you can retire in peace. Take up a hobby. Write your memoirs."

"You wrong this house. You misuse its goods. You steal its stock." Crux loved verbs.

"Say my shuttle exploded. I died, and it was such a shame. Give me a break, Crux, I'm begging you here—I'll trade you a skin mag. Frontline Titties of the Fifth." This rendered the marshal momentarily too aghast to respond. "Okay, okay. I take it back. Frontline Titties isn't a real publication."

Crux advanced like a glacier with an agenda. Gideon rolled backward off her seat as his antique fist came down, skidding out of his way with a shower of dust and gravel. Her sword she swiftly locked within its scabbard, and the scabbard she clutched in her arms like a child. She propelled herself backward, out of the way of his boot and his huge, hoary hands. Crux might have been very nearly dead, but he was built like gristle with what seemed like thirty knuckles to each fist. He was old, but he was goddamn ghastly.

"Easy, marshal," she said, though she was the one floundering in the dirt. "Take this much further and you're in danger of enjoying yourself."

I mean, the Dramatis Personae might give an idea ....

QuoteDramatis Personae
In Order of House Appearance


The Ninth House

Keepers of the Locked Tomb, House of the Sewn Tongue, the Black Vestals

Harrowhark Nonagesimus HEIR TO THE HOUSE OF THE NINTH, REVEREND DAUGHTER OF DREARBURH

Pelleamena Novenarius HER MOTHER, REVEREND MOTHER OF DREARBURH

Priamhark Noniusvianus HER FATHER, REVEREND FATHER OF DREARBURH

Ortus Nigenad CAVALIER PRIMARY TO THE HEIR

Crux MARSHAL OF THE HOUSE OF THE NINTH

Aiglamene CAPTAIN OF THE GUARD OF THE NINTH

Sister Lachrimorta NUN OF THE LOCKED TOMB

Sister Aisamorta NUN OF THE LOCKED TOMB

Sister Glaurica NUN OF THE LOCKED TOMB

Some various followers, cultists, and laypeople of the Ninth

and

Gideon Nav INDENTURED SERVANT OF THE HOUSE OF THE NINTH


The First House

Necromancer Divine, King of the Nine Renewals, our Resurrector, the Necrolord Prime

THE EMPEROR

HIS LYCTORS

AND THE PRIESTHOOD OF CANAAN HOUSE


The Second House

The Emperor's Strength, House of the Crimson Shield, the Centurion's House

Judith Deuteros HEIR TO THE HOUSE OF THE SECOND, RANKED CAPTAIN OF THE COHORT

Marta Dyas CAVALIER PRIMARY TO THE HEIR, RANKED FIRST LIEUTENANT OF THE COHORT


The Third House

Mouth of the Emperor, the Procession, House of the Shining Dead

Coronabeth Tridentarius HEIR TO THE HOUSE OF THE THIRD, CROWN PRINCESS OF IDA

Ianthe Tridentarius HEIR TO THE HOUSE OF THE THIRD, PRINCESS OF IDA

Naberius Tern CAVALIER PRIMARY TO THE HEIRS, PRINCE OF IDA


The Fourth House

Hope of the Emperor, the Emperor's Sword

Isaac Tettares HEIR TO THE HOUSE OF THE FOURTH, BARON OF TISIS

Jeannemary Chatur CAVALIER PRIMARY TO THE HEIR, KNIGHT OF TISIS


The Fifth House

Heart of the Emperor, Watchers over the River

Abigail Pent HEIR TO THE HOUSE OF THE FIFTH, LADY OF KONIORTOS COURT

Magnus Quinn CAVALIER PRIMARY TO THE HEIR, SENESCHAL OF KONIORTOS COURT


The Sixth House

The Emperor's Reason, the Master Wardens

Palamedes Sextus HEIR TO THE HOUSE OF THE SIXTH, MASTER WARDEN OF THE LIBRARY

Camilla Hect CAVALIER PRIMARY TO THE HEIR, WARDEN'S HAND OF THE LIBRARY


The Seventh House

Joy of the Emperor, the Rose Unblown

Dulcinea Septimus HEIR TO THE HOUSE OF THE SEVENTH, DUCHESS OF RHODES

Protesilaus Ebdoma CAVALIER PRIMARY TO THE HEIR, KNIGHT OF RHODES


The Eighth House

Keepers of the Tome, the Forgiving House

Silas Octakiseron HEIR TO THE HOUSE OF THE EIGHTH, MASTER TEMPLAR OF THE WHITE GLASS

Colum Asht CAVALIER PRIMARY TO THE HEIR, TEMPLAR OF THE WHITE GLASS


It's all very over the top silly, but I think I might be in the mood for that, even if this seems overly edgelordy (the author, surprisingly, is female) :D
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: The Brain on December 21, 2023, 02:02:25 AM
Is this how you honor the sixth house and the tribe unmourned?
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 21, 2023, 02:06:27 AM
Quote from: The Brain on December 21, 2023, 02:02:25 AMIs this how you honor the sixth house and the tribe unmourned?
:lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on December 21, 2023, 10:44:52 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 21, 2023, 02:00:13 AMI started on Gideon the Ninth since it came up quite positively in some conversations, but I'm not sure. On the one hand it has a sci-fi space gothic vibe, with death cults, necromancy, magic(?), reanimated skeleton serfs etc. Kinda Warhammer-ish. On the other hand, the main character (a woman called Gideon) and much of the narrative language is ... casually modern? I get it's a young adult book (much fantasy is), but this is a weird mix. I will probably keep going just to see where this goes, but the tone feels a bit weird. :D

I read the first book in the series and started on the second, when I realized that the author's schtick was to make it impossible for the reader to understand the plot or identify with the characters (who are often imposters anyway).  I lacked the self-hatred to bother further with an author that was not interested in telling compelling stories or creating interesting characters.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on December 21, 2023, 03:10:27 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I will finish the first book and see where I stand on ot then. :)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on December 22, 2023, 04:43:35 AM
I read Gideon. I haven't gone onto Harrow yet. I found the beginning of the book *very* rough reading. It eventually became interesting, but never really lived up to the hype. I've heard incredibly mixed reviews of the ensuing books, so they haven't been given a priority in my reading list. Perhaps someday when I'm feeling like excessive mind-fuckery and misdirection for the sake of it.  :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on December 22, 2023, 09:15:33 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 21, 2023, 10:44:52 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 21, 2023, 02:00:13 AMI started on Gideon the Ninth since it came up quite positively in some conversations, but I'm not sure. On the one hand it has a sci-fi space gothic vibe, with death cults, necromancy, magic(?), reanimated skeleton serfs etc. Kinda Warhammer-ish. On the other hand, the main character (a woman called Gideon) and much of the narrative language is ... casually modern? I get it's a young adult book (much fantasy is), but this is a weird mix. I will probably keep going just to see where this goes, but the tone feels a bit weird. :D

I read the first book in the series and started on the second, when I realized that the author's schtick was to make it impossible for the reader to understand the plot or identify with the characters (who are often imposters anyway).  I lacked the self-hatred to bother further with an author that was not interested in telling compelling stories or creating interesting characters.

I'm reassured. I misread Syt's post and thought he was talking about the Murderbot book you recommended and was worried that your standards had gone seriously downhill.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Jacob on December 25, 2023, 02:25:57 AM
Mexican Gothic by Silvia Moreno-Garcia.

A Gothic novel set in 50s-60s Mexico. I don't read a lot of Gothic novels nor Mexican literature, so I had very little in the way of expectations going in. I enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 03, 2024, 09:13:32 PM
Picked up No Country for Old Men on my Subway buddy's recommendation.  Enjoying so far.  Tracks pretty close to the movie, but a little more of Ed Tom's inner thoughts, which I enjoy.

Guess the next step is either Fargo or Inside Llewyin Davis.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 06, 2024, 05:26:35 PM
I've been reading "The Idea Factory: Bell Labs and the Great Age of American Innovation" by John Gertner.  I learned that Bell Labs first offered licensing of the transistor for $25,000; except to people who were going to use it to develop hearing aids.  They were given it for free in deference to Alexander Graham Bell's work with the deaf.  (Bell had been dead for 25 years at that point.)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Threviel on January 08, 2024, 04:19:09 AM
Bean counters of today would get a stroke if someone did that.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 08, 2024, 11:19:04 AM
Quote from: Threviel on January 08, 2024, 04:19:09 AMBean counters of today would get a stroke if someone did that.

Oh yeah; even licensing the transistor when they had their own manufacturing arm (Western Electric) would be incomprehensible today.  AT&T was a monopoly, and to avoid anti-trust regulations they would do PR moves like this.

At the part of the book I'm at now, the immediate post World War II era; the Truman administration sought to break up A&T and Western Electric.  They were convinced to let that monopoly stand due to the need of radar and communication due to national security (and thereby avoiding breaking up Bell Labs, which had been vital to developing both.)  Shortly thereafter the federal government contracted AT&T to manage Sandia National Laboratories (essentially the Los Alamos JV squad)... those were very different times.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 12, 2024, 02:55:03 PM
I also learned that the maser (microwave amplification by the stimulated emission of radiation) is a Bell labs innovation and that it pre-dated the laser.  When they were first developed lasers were referred to as "Optical masers."
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Savonarola on January 19, 2024, 03:55:58 PM
I finished the book on Bell Labs.  It was surprising going through and seeing names that I recognized being given a quick gloss over.  Harald Friis (who developed the fundamental formula of radio communication, The Friis Formula) is mentioned only as a vice president of Bell Labs.  Harry Nyquist (who developed the Nyquist filter,  Nyquist stability criterion, and Nyquist rate) is only mentioned as a disciple of Claude Shannon.

The book focuses most heavily on Mervyn Kelly (worked on vacuum tubes, but is best known as the director of research and then President of Bell Labs during their most productive labs), John Pierce (inventor of satellite communication), Claude Shannon (father of information theory) and Bill Shockley (developer of the junction transistor.)  Shannon and Shockley were the two most eccentric; for very different reasons.  Shannon rode a unicycle around the labs and developed (among other things) a rocket powered frisbee and a formula for juggling.  Shockley developed the junction transistor almost entirely by himself because two of his underlings (John Bardeen and Walter Brattain) developed the spark gap transistor and he wanted to one up them (all three were awarded the Nobel Prize.)  After his career at Bell Labs, (and while he was a professor of physics at Stanford) Shockley developed a theory of dysgenics in which intelligence was strongly correlated to race.  Shockley was also only Nobel Laureate to admit to have donated sperm to the Repository for Germinal Choice. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repository_for_Germinal_Choice)

In any event I think the problem with the Bell System and Bell Labs was best summed up by this:  Bell labs developed the germanium transistor in 1947 (both the spark gap and the junction) and a few years afterward would develop the silicon transistor.  Bell Labs wouldn't use transistors in their own equipment until 1965.  As Gilda Radner said: We're the phone company, we don't have to care.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Syt on January 30, 2024, 01:32:11 AM
Graviteam have released a companion book for their latest Mius Front DLC.

https://steamcommunity.com/games/312980/announcements/detail/3988567539071416258?snr=2

QuoteThe 190-page book contains translated operational documents (war diaries, orders, combat reports, and other primary sources) from the Red Army's Izyum-Barvenkovo offensive operation, which had the goal to pin down and ultimately destroy the German Donbas grouping in the summer of 1943. These materials are complemented by translations of documents from the German formations and units opposing the Soviet offensive.

The book concentrates on the fighting that took place in the area southwest of Izyum at Semenovka village and westwards, in the 4th Guards Rifle Corps' zone of advance: The introduction sets the stage for the operation from the perspective of the Soviet forces, followed by two chapters of translated Red Army documents dedicated to the units of the 4th Guards Rifle Corps and the 23rd Tank Corps (which was committed in the same sector later).

The German documents, presented in the second part of the book, include the AAR from the defending 40th Panzer Corps and a compilation of extracts from a series of documents that specifically covers the action at Semenovka in the sector of the Corps' 257th Infantry Division. As the battle unfolded, the 17th Panzer Division and SS Panzer Grenadier Division "Wiking" were brought in as reinforcements, leading to the first combat deployment of the Estonian "Bataillon Narwa" in the vicinity of Semenovka village.

The translations are accompanied by several dozens of original maps and aerial photographs from the battle, adding a visual component to the experience.

We can confidently say that the book is the most comprehensive work on the subject to date. The Izyum-Barvenkovo operation is relatively unknown compared to its famous northern "neighbor" to begin with, and a deep dive into a sector barely 10 km wide makes the book even more special. As a reader, you have a front row seat as the events unfold from the perspective of each participating unit: preparation, action, reaction, and the aftermath. Reading through each side's assessments of the engagement provides a unique insight into what separates success from failure in a complex offensive operation aiming to break through a well-prepared defense.

DLC: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2349300/Graviteam_Tactics_Stalemate_on_Donets/
Book: https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/2349300/manuals/The_Semenovka_Bridgehead_July_1943_Digital-Book-V-14-01-2024.pdf?t=1705832950
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 06, 2024, 10:51:01 PM
https://twitter.com/SevaUT/status/1752546270151847937
Quotewtf this is the best translation of beowulf i've ever read
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFJLMiSWkAA1_vw?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFJLMjwXUAAEFty?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 07, 2024, 02:54:26 PM
I've heard really good things about that translation and will get to it at some point. Her Beowulf novel The Mere Wife was interesting.

Though I doubt anything'll move Heaney as my favourite - but I think he's one of my favourite poets so...tough act to follow for me :lol:
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 07, 2024, 03:35:26 PM
I am really kicking myself for not reading Foundation earlier.  It is brilliant. 

I wonder how much this work influenced the ethics of Dr. Who - and especially the chapters describing how Savlor Hardin outwitted his opponents in the first and second crisis.

And as a side note, I liked the character that went by the same name in the Apple adoptation.  But of course they have nothing to do with eachother.  Rather the character in the adaptation breaks all the ethical rules of the Hardin in the book.

The later episodes of the first book are all good.  But the writing of the Hardin section really stands out.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: grumbler on February 07, 2024, 06:38:40 PM
Finally got around to getting The Boys: A Memoir of Hollywood and Family (https://www.amazon.com/Boys-Memoir-Hollywood-Family/dp/006306524X) by Ron and Clint Howard.  It's partially a coming-of-age story and partly an ode to their parents, to whose guidance they attribute their success both as child actors and adult actors/film makers.

It's rare to see a joint autobiography like this, in which two family members tell their side of the various events that they and their families went through.  The two were five years apart in age, but were both closer and more distant than that.  They really seemed to be of different generations in their relationship with the outside world, but very close in age in their relationship with each other.

I knew that both of their parent's had been actors, but wasn't aware that their dad had kept acting up to a few months before his death.  I also wasn't aware of how involved Rance was in the careers of his two sons, and how he had been hired by other productions to manage other child actors' appearances on set.  Both parents were very down-to-earth and I was struck by the extent to which they ensured some semblance of family normalcy by avoiding the mixing of their children's money (all saved for their adult use) with household money.  The family could have lived in better than their middle-class lifestyles, but the parents didn't want that for themselves or their children.

I was surprised after finishing it that it had gone on for more than 400 pages.  I could have read another 400.  Lots of fun if the topic interests you.  Name-dropping by the bucket-load.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on February 08, 2024, 12:17:48 PM
That sounds really intriguing! I probably wouldn't have considered picking it up prior, but now it is a distinct possibility! I'm not normally one for audiobooks, but it looks like Clint, Ron, and Bryce Dallas all are part of the voiceover work. That definitely sounds fun!
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: Gups on February 09, 2024, 05:25:43 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 07, 2024, 03:35:26 PMI am really kicking myself for not reading Foundation earlier.  It is brilliant. 

I wonder how much this work influenced the ethics of Dr. Who - and especially the chapters describing how Savlor Hardin outwitted his opponents in the first and second crisis.

And as a side note, I liked the character that went by the same name in the Apple adoptation.  But of course they have nothing to do with eachother.  Rather the character in the adaptation breaks all the ethical rules of the Hardin in the book.

The later episodes of the first book are all good.  But the writing of the Hardin section really stands out.

Yeah I read the first one a few months ago. Really good and the second is downloaded.
Title: Re: Grand unified books thread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 14, 2024, 08:04:02 PM
Finished the Foundation trilogy, very enjoyable read.  I now I know for sure I would have hated the Apple series if I had read the books first.

I loved the books.  Particularly the second book.  It was like a reverse murder mystery - the reader knows pretty early on who the Mule is, and you are waiting to see when the penny drops for the protagonists.  Also loved the character of the Mule once revealed.  I have to admit I didn't figure out the location of the Second Foundation until the big reveal in the third book, but I loved how all the hints were in the books, if I had just noticed them.

A couple of questions about the Apple show - does the cloning of Cleon story line come from other books by Asimov or is that pure invention of the show runners? 

And why oh why did the showrunners have to invent magic powers like seeing into the future.  I loved how the books played with the exact opposite theme of probabilities based on large populations, something given lip service in the show but overshadowed by the actions of the recurring characters.