I like photos from the olden days, like that 70s USA series in The Atlantic, or old advertising, or interesting architectural pictures, and other odds and ends, so I will keep them in a separate thread instead of putting them into OTT all the time.
Here's some advertising that probably wouldn't fly today:
http://www.vintag.es/2015/06/30-vintage-ads-that-would-be-banned.html
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-LlOsVIZEWpI%2FVXNlZxRgkXI%2FAAAAAAABkXI%2FHI-iOQjVvIU%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%2525284%252529.jpg&hash=9f6ea639471f5f8a6299c79ed37be04ba3574d5c)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-i0xVJy18SBA%2FVXNlZ9NfeeI%2FAAAAAAABkXM%2F2sUWfmHCbWY%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%2525285%252529.jpg&hash=22d3a8e5614910de3cf62ba27fd37177b1310f57)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-RGf2QZvjGLk%2FVXNljkEHYvI%2FAAAAAAABkXk%2F_plwi6TbHRI%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%2525287%252529.jpg&hash=3a4d1655cf3fa931e8bbe688bab4d0189e5b6140)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-5KqCyRMopNI%2FVXNllF8gkGI%2FAAAAAAABkXw%2F7zwDRnHbUAQ%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%2525289%252529.jpg&hash=b35b52a2172e8d873b54f7dc5f6b44cb9547f34f)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-0veYtGeGhKc%2FVXNkTaOFImI%2FAAAAAAABkUs%2Fzu9ldxRHwlw%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%25252813%252529.jpg&hash=91ca4f6d980a5f6d7f083278505fa785d48fe56d)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-lbWymgau-BM%2FVXNkS4KFuDI%2FAAAAAAABkUo%2FRzAEAsyirQM%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%25252814%252529.jpg&hash=79253a9fc918a2deb5f047d12768e2e840e7c27d)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-FK2AxOdwdjw%2FVXNkpSAbL2I%2FAAAAAAABkVQ%2FBeUM3Bjxoo8%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%25252816%252529.jpg&hash=c38ddc5b516f66b182cfbf67c51c878732ace40c)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-ft86eIJrus0%2FVXNkkrHnPzI%2FAAAAAAABkVA%2FnWaz5aBVS4w%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%25252817%252529.jpg&hash=40143c3ee2008c5580b1d46ff08f46fcce783889)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-tN_3iV_DN2Q%2FVXNkz14SaiI%2FAAAAAAABkVg%2FkZd3CIk_3SI%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%25252820%252529.jpg&hash=9e9e70ff4ddb6b7aaebf3a138d31863e201d1d9b)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-MfodeHnzthQ%2FVXNk1JQVvXI%2FAAAAAAABkVs%2F5xa76BqyIPU%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%25252821%252529.jpg&hash=1a05621f51caacaaf416bcbcfac482aa50179076)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-QtNrARVT-Z4%2FVXNk-z8k0XI%2FAAAAAAABkWA%2FZL4OWdN6aJo%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%25252823%252529.jpg&hash=994d3acb551b9d7d7d5dfffda7da66c6ce12061c)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-O6RtxqFsqxg%2FVXNlDQJtZJI%2FAAAAAAABkWI%2FhNonyfLHZ_s%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%25252825%252529.jpg&hash=12632a79d72f1d628f355a987bda13ad4ca09340)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-FSQudeE5KZk%2FVXNlEpZzlaI%2FAAAAAAABkWY%2FGXMWOKA4JBk%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%25252826%252529.jpg&hash=7d9273d61173dc9c49adf0a0b5a6f494d253bee5)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-d9rn3a9TGEQ%2FVXNlLsdoYdI%2FAAAAAAABkWg%2F84KoffWy2Iw%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%25252827%252529.jpg&hash=885349f1014150ae5353be78c1f6d779856d58de)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-YKNMAvYWZwg%2FVXNlPw_0t6I%2FAAAAAAABkWw%2FZqJO9ipQLdA%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BAds%252BThat%252BWould%252BBe%252BBanned%252BToday%252B%25252828%252529.jpg&hash=f83e0170d368e6f0cba0af32cac89ea0e9d621f1)
The state of some of those ads :lol:
Happy to see we've gone forward as a society. I wonder which things we see as normal now will be seen as embarrassingly backwards in 30-40 years.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aston-martin.com%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F02%2Fbmw-ad.jpg&hash=ffdbf900fe021cbf6964bd3e4b9b5dced0f19966)
That's a real ad from 2008 by the way.
Quote from: Zanza on June 07, 2015, 04:19:09 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aston-martin.com%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F02%2Fbmw-ad.jpg&hash=ffdbf900fe021cbf6964bd3e4b9b5dced0f19966)
That's a real ad from 2008 by the way.
This one is incredibly racist.
See avatar. ;)
Quote from: Zanza on June 07, 2015, 04:19:09 AM
That's a real ad from 2008 by the way.
The first person to give her a haircut?
BMW knows their entire market is dickheads anyway.
Which is not to say I have any problem with the ad.
Some pre-1900 pictures in color:
http://www.vintag.es/2015/06/an-american-odyssey-stunning-color.html
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-PZq7O3ZDe0U%2FVYRw0fh60rI%2FAAAAAAABmtI%2FihLFI6bl-eg%2Fs1600%2FAmerican%252BOdyssey%252B%2525281%252529.jpg&hash=d62e0197e10a317276f2f0d04383b409de9930fc)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-TvvErO8r1lk%2FVYRw4mccjCI%2FAAAAAAABmtk%2FQxyLUXiRMN0%2Fs1600%2FAmerican%252BOdyssey%252B%2525282%252529.jpg&hash=2e6ef6c8d821e248884da5b40072aa3c896375d6)
Mulberry St., NYC
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-wCgfbcnO8kk%2FVYRw0c1lKfI%2FAAAAAAABmtE%2FTiXRF7ZiAq0%2Fs1600%2FAmerican%252BOdyssey%252B%25252810%252529.jpg&hash=58fe60bf58e012bd1be594e8d4d78b9bb24fb6eb)
Homestake mine, South Dakota
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-t3ph9AyvdUQ%2FVYRwy6R1ZlI%2FAAAAAAABms8%2FkTJuVwVPBcc%2Fs1600%2FAmerican%252BOdyssey%252B%25252811%252529.jpg&hash=b721f32fa245c5fa0e85776d4aa4700e8b7a792c)
San Francisco
Copyright 1900?
1970s Times Square
http://www.vintag.es/2014/04/street-scenes-of-times-square-in-70s.html
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-HRRDZSUQ6jI%2FU15qq1ZY3EI%2FAAAAAAAAk9k%2FL-Bs6EHpSsY%2Fs1600%2FTimes%2BSquare%2Bin%2Bthe%2B70%26%23039%3Bs%2B%2817%29.jpg&hash=15e9e5ad61f0d108fba6128cd58dd65dccbf6cb3)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-QTUFjymj9E0%2FU15qr1gFo4I%2FAAAAAAAAk9w%2FNlXdvFNGv_k%2Fs1600%2FTimes%2BSquare%2Bin%2Bthe%2B70%26%23039%3Bs%2B%282%29.jpg&hash=c2bccf7fa29373d9b53e0afd41441fd4415ba332)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-RSY5QKcxPPA%2FU15qwh5gzkI%2FAAAAAAAAk-0%2FcJjHqbl1BR0%2Fs1600%2FTimes%2BSquare%2Bin%2Bthe%2B70%26%23039%3Bs%2B%285%29.jpg&hash=2c6a3693f0ac3bca4ca1f781ab23cc2f93ccc17b)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-di7xsf8CCEA%2FU15qvA4CmRI%2FAAAAAAAAk-g%2FkNFlWHnneU8%2Fs1600%2FTimes%2BSquare%2Bin%2Bthe%2B70%26%23039%3Bs%2B%288%29.jpg&hash=5b8f99857366ad7fa9b33e6fa931c5cc938835cc)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-ka3q1EcSnJI%2FU15qns7nfmI%2FAAAAAAAAk8k%2FLxf-v5RbOB4%2Fs1600%2FTimes%2BSquare%2Bin%2Bthe%2B70%26%23039%3Bs%2B%2810%29.jpg&hash=1f73dfa98702b243834724aecb33d04c19c51f2c)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-6auHL58jgVQ%2FU15qnkKiCYI%2FAAAAAAAAk8o%2F7mj1zGfHxbk%2Fs1600%2FTimes%2BSquare%2Bin%2Bthe%2B70%26%23039%3Bs%2B%2811%29.jpg&hash=8070f3cf5455de26786bfc378386f01613a65275)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-K-tUqYDT_RY%2FU15qrOQrOYI%2FAAAAAAAAk9c%2F3VcWB2GqZk0%2Fs1600%2FTimes%2BSquare%2Bin%2Bthe%2B70%26%23039%3Bs%2B%2812%29.jpg&hash=fbc7a786aa61463c68bdc89163f8b9e0a8d2fd0d)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-X2Kh8Lb8LkY%2FU15qpF3sfxI%2FAAAAAAAAk88%2FQOeOvdffzUg%2Fs1600%2FTimes%2BSquare%2Bin%2Bthe%2B70%26%23039%3Bs%2B%2814%29.jpg&hash=b86b7e703c133ad6434cffaf27c436acab6f1e03)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-1Zlw7I-SMXk%2FU15qpitAU4I%2FAAAAAAAAk9Q%2FE9elye4UPtY%2Fs1600%2FTimes%2BSquare%2Bin%2Bthe%2B70%26%23039%3Bs%2B%2815%29.jpg&hash=559ba8e45177e8f406475f024786052278cd4c2e)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-suERZaY7_gI%2FU15qqADmBjI%2FAAAAAAAAk9M%2FSdmvocO0Fa0%2Fs1600%2FTimes%2BSquare%2Bin%2Bthe%2B70%26%23039%3Bs%2B%2816%29.jpg&hash=498a107cbebf4e5612e8779452b7aec169a7671f)
Color film footage from Berlin, summer 1945: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=387&v=R5i9k7s9X_A
Brandenburg Gate, Hotel Adlon, Alexanderplatz, Chancellery, Sportpalast etc. Some of it looks like the Capital Wasteland in Fallout 3.
Impressions from the library of the new University of Economics in Vienna. It's colloquially called "Starship Enterprise."
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wien.gv.at%2Fbildung%2Fhochschulen%2Fimages%2Fcampus-wu4-gr.jpg&hash=81000db15ec559569b31a75734864b596f350dde)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unimag.at%2Fmedia%2Fk2%2Fgalleries%2F1355%2F2_WU%2520Neubau_Innenansicht%2520Bibliothek.jpg&hash=88a5f0a5b2ca353f66f3503cb9a1f391e80c9394)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lesesaal.at%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F04%2Flesesaal_wien_wu06-800x518.jpg&hash=d2b62838945b0596696051e951ceca5fd2290b27)
Was that Bill Murray? :D
Yep. The second picture caught me off guard too, then I went back and looked at the first one again; it is the cast of Saturday Night Live: Radner, Belushi, someone, Curtain, first token black guy, Murray.
I only just noticed that one lady of the group of women crossing the street is carrying an "Ernte 23" bag, a German cigarette brand.
Everybody was so much skinnier back then.
Quote from: celedhring on June 07, 2015, 02:34:15 AM
I wonder which things we see as normal now will be seen as embarrassingly backwards in 30-40 years.
I wonder about that myself from time to time. There's a certain arrogance in thinking we have everything figured out right now, but you know there are some things we don't bat an eye at that are going to look bad in a few decades. Like letting women vote.
Quote from: derspiess on July 08, 2015, 08:48:04 AM
Quote from: celedhring on June 07, 2015, 02:34:15 AM
I wonder which things we see as normal now will be seen as embarrassingly backwards in 30-40 years.
I wonder about that myself from time to time. There's a certain arrogance in thinking we have everything figured out right now, but you know there are some things we don't bat an eye at that are going to look bad in a few decades. Like letting women vote.
:lol: Well played sir.
Quote from: sbr on July 08, 2015, 06:54:16 AM
Yep. The second picture caught me off guard too, then I went back and looked at the first one again; it is the cast of Saturday Night Live: Radner, Belushi, someone, Curtain, first token black guy, Murray.
Someone must be Lorraine Newman.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 08, 2015, 09:42:03 AM
Someone must be Lorraine Newman.
I'd recognize that nose anywhere.
And of course token black guy is Garret Morris. :smarty:
Wonder when SNL will have its first token Asian.
I was 5 when the first season aired and I was never a big enough fan to go back and watch enough reruns to recognize the ones that didn't make it really big. :blush:
Ah, the beautiful 70s. Take a deep breath! *cough*
http://www.vintag.es/2014/07/pictures-of-america-in-crisis-and-cure.html
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-3HMx7uEEU-w%2FU86pIGo_UGI%2FAAAAAAAAzh0%2FhL9gyAcRLTo%2Fs1600%2FAmerica%2Bin%2BCrisis%2Band%2BCure%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1970s%2B%283%29.jpg&hash=d0ad7fbf14dba3bb676530a18e968979fe9800a7)
Clark Avenue and Clark Avenue bridge, looking east from West 13th Street, obscured by industrial smoke, in Cleveland, Ohio, in July of 1973.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-j9yyXfooIFI%2FU86pdY_5lqI%2FAAAAAAAAzkQ%2FC9ExsxnJWOs%2Fs1600%2FAmerica%2Bin%2BCrisis%2Band%2BCure%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1970s%2B%285%29.jpg&hash=c057c4ed1f8aed0eca1e0c75bf34c5908917ff8d)
A mountain of damaged oil drums lies in a heap in an Exxon refinery near Baton Rouge, Louisiana, in December of 1972.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-52ooHwZznlc%2FU86pdHhqGPI%2FAAAAAAAAzkM%2FcC15YH4KOUI%2Fs1600%2FAmerica%2Bin%2BCrisis%2Band%2BCure%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1970s%2B%286%29.jpg&hash=ec02234a571371f5793f42989fb75b07d1944a94)
A man rides in a graffiti-covered subway car in New York City in May of 1973.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-CRBMgBcrQdw%2FU86o8ora1II%2FAAAAAAAAzgE%2FOnPfT1KTiRg%2Fs1600%2FAmerica%2Bin%2BCrisis%2Band%2BCure%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1970s%2B%2817%29.jpg&hash=5b680007214d1f62464f026bf875a89b92883cc1)
train on the Southern Pacific Railroad passes a five-acre pond, which was used as a dump site by area commercial firms, near Ogden, Utah, in April of 1974. The acid water, oil, acid clay sludge, dead animals, junked cars and other dump debris were cleaned up by several governmental groups under the supervision of the EPA. Some 1,200,000 gallons of liquid were pumped from the site, neutralized and taken to a disposal site.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-VhW9xl8E9D0%2FU86pL1UYTYI%2FAAAAAAAAziM%2FB1uec63vXr4%2Fs1600%2FAmerica%2Bin%2BCrisis%2Band%2BCure%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1970s%2B%2832%29.jpg&hash=1027627f9f5a628f8d2f3b65b0755df3ab43d1df)
Cars were jammed even more than usual into every spare space at a downtown commercial parking lot during a bus strike in Washington, D.C., in May 1974. Some 250,000 people were forced to find alternate forms of transportation. Monumental traffic jams resulted as drivers learned there were more cars than legal places to park.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-CWqO6g5ZZOE%2FU86pNlWn8NI%2FAAAAAAAAzic%2FTevboMmM6Vk%2Fs1600%2FAmerica%2Bin%2BCrisis%2Band%2BCure%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1970s%2B%2834%29.jpg&hash=8ccda3b9552a5ea3d7531cedb2c8c0380aacbf7e)
An illegal dumping area, seen just off the New Jersey Turnpike, facing Manhattan across the Hudson River, in March of 1973. To the south is the landfill area of the proposed Liberty State Park -- which was built and opened in 1976.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-hr5GXcZ1IVA%2FU86pS0wLmCI%2FAAAAAAAAzi8%2FyG8k0ORuN4E%2Fs1600%2FAmerica%2Bin%2BCrisis%2Band%2BCure%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1970s%2B%2838%29.jpg&hash=f9efb91879c95ce9c36aa1d34d121321c8d2afd3)
A Crown Zellerbach pulp mill dumps solid waste into a pond it formerly used for log storage in June of 1973.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-jQvmPfDmb8w%2FU86pZoozC1I%2FAAAAAAAAzj0%2FpyFC0Zi_U8I%2Fs1600%2FAmerica%2Bin%2BCrisis%2Band%2BCure%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1970s%2B%2845%29.jpg&hash=6ec78adc3c59712ffab60ce5dd4e0fa93bbe7e97)
One of the daughters of Jerry Rainey, a miner who was out on strike against the Brookside Mining Company in Brookside, Kentucky, for several months during 1974. She stands on the back porch of the house Rainey rents from the company. Notice the outhouses in the background. The family was threatened by eviction during the lengthy and sometimes violent strike despite a state law which outlaws such practices.
Quote from: sbr on July 08, 2015, 06:54:16 AM
Yep. The second picture caught me off guard too, then I went back and looked at the first one again; it is the cast of Saturday Night Live: Radner, Belushi, someone, Curtain, first token black guy, Murray.
someone - Laraine Newman
'token black guy' - Garrett Morris :rolleyes:
edit: whoops, didn't realize this had already been addressed and corrected. :sleep:
Anyone know what kind of car design this is?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-SP3afOrTn3Q%2FT2xGKNGwLJI%2FAAAAAAAA9WQ%2FTV6PRVdHuW8%2Fs1600%2FStrange%2BRetro%2BVehicles%2B%2819%29.jpg&hash=21bf48abead19b2cad5c6f0128562322e5f285ed)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-HxOMrRiG_Fk%2FT2xGXJyjBYI%2FAAAAAAAA9XY%2Fk5UjRAIKczY%2Fs1600%2FStrange%2BRetro%2BVehicles%2B%2827%29.jpg&hash=e3e9ef57408eb623706e2340d66ce5b0053993a0)
Interesting that Chevy Chase is not hanging with the homies, no?
Quote from: Syt on July 13, 2015, 04:31:19 AM
Anyone know what kind of car design this is?
Looks like Homer's car from The Simpsons.
As I suspected from the registration plate it is an English car, a one-off made by Mr Graham of Kingston in 1929 :
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/english-driver-invents-this-novel-three-wheeled-pleasure-car/
I also found a couple of photos of the car with captions :
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/mr-grahams-novel-three-wheel-car-designed-to-look-like-an-news-photo/3272335
http://www.gettyimages.in/detail/news-photo/three-wheeled-car-made-by-mr-a-graham-of-kingston-surrey-news-photo/3325104
Ah, thanks. :)
It looks like a bit of a strange design, and with the wheels at the far ends of the contraption, I figure there's a lot of stress at the center of the support structure. I'd be worried that it would break in the middle. :D
Well the chap was a racing car driver in the 1920s, risk perceptions were different in those days.
I'm enjoying the thread a lot btw, some very interesting pics.
The Brookside strike mentioned with the picture of the girl would be covered by the Harlan County USA documentary.
PREPARE TO BE BORED!
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 14, 2015, 08:40:35 AM
The Brookside strike mentioned with the picture of the girl would be covered by the Harlan County USA documentary.
PREPARE TO BE BORED!
:lol:
I read an Atlantic article the other day about Lincoln Heights, OH, what used to be a thriving black community that has gone downhill a lot after the industry that employed many of them left, because racism.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 13, 2015, 02:44:22 PM
Interesting that Chevy Chase is not hanging with the homies, no?
He left the cast early. Bill Murray replaced him.
The not so pretty sights of England in the 60s/70s, courtesy BBC Magazine on Facebook:
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11695024_10153334466075659_5925394415476819703_n.jpg?oh=4615ab2b6e112ecd0dbee2033d72441c&oe=56517149)
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11752609_10153334466835659_1588253798718383364_n.jpg?oh=b99db7d9f4f9a201850547758b5dc0a9&oe=5623F4BA)
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11745873_10153334466800659_3674300587951064336_n.jpg?oh=6eeff546b0ee9a76f56a6e5b41e8703d&oe=562300FE)
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11742706_10153334466210659_124328915740887780_n.jpg?oh=39ed78f5f9b4144725e0b971544b6f9b&oe=561EE75E)
Some for Beeb:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-sYwNpgnJVU0%2FVatclz5VbwI%2FAAAAAAABqY0%2FXE7Mm2X6DS4%2Fs1600%2FThistle%252BCurling%252BClub%252Bgroup%25252C%252BMontreal%25252C%252BQu%2525C3%2525A9bec%25252C%252B1893.jpg&hash=4bf5f0649e459e8d24ec9cd608bd48cfe51b7a29)
Thistle Curling Club group, Montreal, Québec, 1893
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-DnrNPnxRUBM%2FUwtn_hhWT3I%2FAAAAAAAAeWI%2FaPH3-VjvqRk%2Fs1600%2FThe%2BAthletes%2Bof%2Bthe%2BFirst%2BWinter%2BOlympics%2Bin%2B1924%2B%285%29.jpg&hash=d1cc187a88e86170653dbce64d0fdf5f17bfcc5a)
The Swedish and British curling teams at the 1924 Olympics at Chamonix.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-DbrRrnnBSg4%2FVNOzHG59woI%2FAAAAAAABRJU%2FKJo3wl1kf70%2Fs1600%2FVintage%252BWinter%252BOlympics%252B%2829%29.jpg&hash=a9a3cdd1ddb76a234b41b3d4726835e8b9d3a0ad)
The British Curling team poses during the 1924 Winter Olympics at Chamonix.
Back when curling was cool...much better outfits than today.
http://www.vintag.es/2015/08/pictures-of-fbis-colossal-fingerprint.html
QuoteThe following photos give us a fascinating look inside the FBI's overflow filing system. Housed during World War II in the Washington, D.C. Armory, the FBI's archive collected over 23 million cards and 10 million fingerprint records, with around 400,000 new cards added every month.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-XXYBZGbCDoQ%2FVb4Fiabu5jI%2FAAAAAAABsus%2FYSWDFMxF62s%2Fs1600%2FFBI%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BColossal%252BFingerprint%252BFiling%252BSystem%252BDuring%252Bthe%252B1940s%252B%2525281%252529.jpg&hash=32e903f6f84246d09c1578381ced775d87b39f5f)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-mwqeXuOryXI%2FVb4FhcQh8bI%2FAAAAAAABsug%2F8Y9uY5Difrg%2Fs1600%2FFBI%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BColossal%252BFingerprint%252BFiling%252BSystem%252BDuring%252Bthe%252B1940s%252B%2525282%252529.jpg&hash=71202c17d1952d93d8b872ca1badb85070c74cc4)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-9g9SLl_6vBQ%2FVb4FiHMRztI%2FAAAAAAABsuo%2FiRuGSJvtjPY%2Fs1600%2FFBI%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BColossal%252BFingerprint%252BFiling%252BSystem%252BDuring%252Bthe%252B1940s%252B%2525283%252529.jpg&hash=d08ed01f1b5219d213c7119342d7e29d6a8d9cfe)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-OlvcOLY_Vrc%2FVb4Fjql5HRI%2FAAAAAAABsu4%2FhTd3eYkKEsk%2Fs1600%2FFBI%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BColossal%252BFingerprint%252BFiling%252BSystem%252BDuring%252Bthe%252B1940s%252B%2525284%252529.jpg&hash=9d8a15970bca6641216a1b772fdb1c6270e95e84)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-UFIsWmFCfTc%2FVb4Fki0eihI%2FAAAAAAABsvA%2FZzlMp4PyG1w%2Fs1600%2FFBI%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BColossal%252BFingerprint%252BFiling%252BSystem%252BDuring%252Bthe%252B1940s%252B%2525285%252529.jpg&hash=7dc583d74ebd323cd7edbe12a3e0e22b706bed70)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-ZLozyWOgGZY%2FVb4FlfL9-CI%2FAAAAAAABsvI%2FHXBxBOCCGms%2Fs1600%2FFBI%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BColossal%252BFingerprint%252BFiling%252BSystem%252BDuring%252Bthe%252B1940s%252B%2525286%252529.jpg&hash=7c521a0ff7fe1120a26c130961dd6fab932b3271)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-yHbqko1TWOc%2FVb4FmsEmU7I%2FAAAAAAABsvQ%2F27yEKWEDvJI%2Fs1600%2FFBI%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BColossal%252BFingerprint%252BFiling%252BSystem%252BDuring%252Bthe%252B1940s%252B%2525287%252529.jpg&hash=dc6701ac5c38ff95921f90ea7ecb2b2222664a3a)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Akr1D8wfUeA%2FVb4Fnifr2HI%2FAAAAAAABsvY%2FrW86mncM-Gc%2Fs1600%2FFBI%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BColossal%252BFingerprint%252BFiling%252BSystem%252BDuring%252Bthe%252B1940s%252B%2525288%252529.jpg&hash=067369cd9339a46abb727f45d1f7c2f60191e919)
"We have top men working on it right now. Top. Men."
"And women!" :P
Actually, I guess it was a special kind of punishment to tell the new guy, "Can you check if we have these prints on file?"
1970s Iran
Quotehttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dUKLCFXRVrM/ULhoBjgbX2I/AAAAAAACDJQ/HPuOWTegxec/s1600/Iran,+1970+(1).jpg
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-wlMWx0Xlgzg%2FULhoDn_MfcI%2FAAAAAAACDJY%2FrwXxxUbQimM%2Fs1600%2FIran%2C%2B1970%2B%2810%29.jpg&hash=447ae757d0f77f98909d50808fb4d7226ce93b80)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-hx-QWU1S2cM%2FULhoGsDVvYI%2FAAAAAAACDJo%2FW7wOAFHIseY%2Fs1600%2FIran%2C%2B1970%2B%2812%29.jpg&hash=0e47a4b8e4712facb10de5e19bc8a412caf4dd80)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Ybdu7YJWlbg%2FULhoJqVkwzI%2FAAAAAAACDJw%2Fl28-gzwgFfQ%2Fs1600%2FIran%2C%2B1970%2B%2813%29.jpg&hash=d15d1b90bd36e21f2cba125c1716ff9937a8530b)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-S3ZqUIwyYqY%2FULhoNBrYbsI%2FAAAAAAACDKA%2Fz6N3oZAeXvY%2Fs1600%2FIran%2C%2B1970%2B%2815%29.jpg&hash=00ee236972739459b35621ac43ad30e6cec3b9ec)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-WHQR88NHhFY%2FULhoRDECAHI%2FAAAAAAACDKQ%2FuTlIWQYFdrQ%2Fs1600%2FIran%2C%2B1970%2B%2817%29.jpg&hash=f1b0984aabdadcf89168716cf214ad777e9015a3)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-YSyZgbN-vq4%2FULhoTb1R2OI%2FAAAAAAACDKY%2FiaMTDfRIP9U%2Fs1600%2FIran%2C%2B1970%2B%2818%29.jpg&hash=9b2b9904516e9ba76fe06098460e4bc1ea270386)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F--zOrKrYATD0%2FULhoVEyY4pI%2FAAAAAAACDKg%2FX7Z1fhANE7g%2Fs1600%2FIran%2C%2B1970%2B%2819%29.jpg&hash=51780c1e35be8cf2c2f6863fc342b73ad07be03f)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-jNLBy3Vh7WQ%2FULhoYo-JhvI%2FAAAAAAACDKo%2FXtiSLS5ImVs%2Fs1600%2FIran%2C%2B1970%2B%282%29.jpg&hash=63679801fbd23d696c6ed2f2d2cc9a9a11dfcaba)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-3S42q1xEC48%2FULhoc3D_PsI%2FAAAAAAACDK4%2F55QYJylmGW0%2Fs1600%2FIran%2C%2B1970%2B%284%29.jpg&hash=9badf733adea06e9400db1e318f86e016f53c0d3)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-G_--eGRsZ3I%2FULhofBOAsVI%2FAAAAAAACDLA%2FrKIiriqB7Vo%2Fs1600%2FIran%2C%2B1970%2B%285%29.jpg&hash=d89b910f99ab1d29c236db0acc80bf5e2d1fe9b2)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-W0w48XX-230%2FULhohvME_qI%2FAAAAAAACDLI%2FqoIYdowMQIg%2Fs1600%2FIran%2C%2B1970%2B%286%29.jpg&hash=c27712232c5855bcd231e574b96455f5bc6ced5c)
Quote from: Syt on August 07, 2015, 12:37:32 AM
1970s Iran
[img]the pic with the four young HOTTies showing off legs[img]
The best example of why we should hate Islamic fundamentalism. The Islamic world is having their Dark Ages way too late.
I'd guess the problem was that those pictures represent too small a segment of the population.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 07, 2015, 12:47:28 AM
I'd guess the problem was that those pictures represent too small a segment of the population.
Most likely; similar with the pictures from pre-war Afghanistan. I thought the book Kite Runner gave a decent (if brief) account of the pre-war differences between classes/ethnic groups from the view of a privileged child.
If it wasn't Islamic fundamentalism it would have been Communism or something equally dumb.
1970s men's fashion. Feast your eyes.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-KdT8oaI6mNs%2FVYlouUXX8qI%2FAAAAAAABnE4%2F_J74-zTko-I%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%2525281%252529.jpg&hash=073fad96bf3317623dc49874d182c3bdc5b5e55d)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-wjqKQejWtHA%2FVYlo8jKtfUI%2FAAAAAAABnHk%2F32nz2sgcTIM%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%2525283%252529.jpg&hash=ba0b7bf8dfb6c9c6af59237c54240f583ef0aadc)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-OtJCOF7XJMc%2FVYlo9rk5gbI%2FAAAAAAABnHs%2FCjQyBk72Ejk%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%2525284%252529.jpg&hash=ac4d8b55f9132d14e6341a023f0ebb22d5c7d709)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-2EZVgPaj9jU%2FVYlo-P3naNI%2FAAAAAAABnHc%2Fu15Ae67U6nQ%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%2525285%252529.jpg&hash=825510e18705c95df77f737f7f34a549e1d1d7a4)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-2QS9O_jwvYE%2FVYlo_JIZixI%2FAAAAAAABnIA%2Fc4M29Q4qMoA%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%2525286%252529.jpg&hash=e095cc809b52fc991b44a18f30472150f752e43e)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-vv6GTmuLh00%2FVYlo_gf4PxI%2FAAAAAAABnHw%2F2KKqTRziZ2s%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%2525287%252529.jpg&hash=fe27bf1832f5aafc64032bfb29dda38026a1852a)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Ez7pl-bERE0%2FVYlpBOrcTVI%2FAAAAAAABnII%2FPsSFtrmISW8%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%2525288%252529.jpg&hash=3d887b956ed073a353e876994cf1e3b20897429c)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-wCDRqjz1Ye0%2FVYlpBEKRxSI%2FAAAAAAABnIE%2FlM9vgVKDw18%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%2525289%252529.jpg&hash=52971204cc3b741286bf4fdd5070b00442edcf66)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-HEsSHmkiaaI%2FVYlovjv2v5I%2FAAAAAAABnFU%2F0dJ6hqUANuI%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%25252812%252529.jpg&hash=f61e15aca06aa86c8b2dd69d300d7a79aae496ce)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-cxHdKlX_VkM%2FVYlov5XIfYI%2FAAAAAAABnFA%2FumqbA9hoGl0%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%25252813%252529.jpg&hash=9e071ee26d8a093655f4e171b0753dbfa80a9e89)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-6bw5hK2nEj8%2FVYlowAekkRI%2FAAAAAAABnFQ%2FZk0p7C-JYps%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%25252814%252529.jpg&hash=22bdd004a55717d85ba44ea37b0105e824927ad0)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-G9xPxdG13oA%2FVYloxcSt3dI%2FAAAAAAABnFM%2FXwCK8P_KeZo%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%25252815%252529.jpg&hash=e1078fd401630836925e916215316df1f4284ab4)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-vBS6kqvXubU%2FVYloy1YF5EI%2FAAAAAAABnFw%2FwLR09TZORvs%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%25252816%252529.jpg&hash=e3ab5f0d52beb474f67d7108e03843f0cf9f1101)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-h9Lk6U0nwXA%2FVYlozZjiDrI%2FAAAAAAABnFs%2Ffpl-n8VbQB8%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%25252818%252529.jpg&hash=c8786db4a169b58a7a63a91ed66f89dfd16106d5)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-ectoTn3A7sM%2FVYlo0vtpF4I%2FAAAAAAABnF0%2FtLZeK8qjnEs%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%25252819%252529.jpg&hash=e86f5c4c79fcb75a6b0250a992efb327ef07e82a)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-8Irn0A5TfO4%2FVYlo2kV-igI%2FAAAAAAABnGY%2FnktBU0WFxco%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%25252820%252529.jpg&hash=86a62f3e71e0d53fee098bd922399782951ec0b2)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-_aC2nkxJaeg%2FVYlo2jkMAYI%2FAAAAAAABnGU%2FGdBfqtWhZso%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%25252821%252529.jpg&hash=d8ace628b07834876871cf08fb3a4e7e3ca6792c)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-zh41iJr8Wv8%2FVYlo4vn6ayI%2FAAAAAAABnGo%2FlYyxmckBjg0%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%25252823%252529.jpg&hash=2353728282c69285bdce0cc5594c3e07a81c9bce)
Shirt and undies in one? GENIUS!
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-_uOOrLaDsZM%2FVYlo5D7bGlI%2FAAAAAAABnGk%2FKhtC6AVtVF0%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%25252824%252529.jpg&hash=821132252902e284787b75497577c1a08e402a43)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-hp9LX0GPmDg%2FVYlo69OdgAI%2FAAAAAAABnG4%2FyihCNkVlY2U%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%25252826%252529.jpg&hash=df97a5d0b897de2165e8b8e062dc69c155082305)
:uffda:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-eXJ55AiH59A%2FVYlo7NEknZI%2FAAAAAAABnG8%2F3KuJGJQu2cw%2Fs640%2F%25252770s%252BMen%2525E2%252580%252599s%252BFashion%252BAds%252B%25252827%252529.jpg&hash=c611c3c9aad11ef2e7529a46fa73422ce36ee025)
Suddenly Boogie Nights makes a lot more sense.
Quote from: Syt on August 07, 2015, 12:53:56 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 07, 2015, 12:47:28 AM
I'd guess the problem was that those pictures represent too small a segment of the population.
Most likely; similar with the pictures from pre-war Afghanistan. I thought the book Kite Runner gave a decent (if brief) account of the pre-war differences between classes/ethnic groups from the view of a privileged child.
He should have checked his privilege.
Anyway I think, in Afghanistan's case, it is not entirely unlikely that a place would be much better coming off several decades of peace than it would be several decades of war. Even poor people don't enjoy decades of war. Or so I hear.
:bleeding: What a terrible decade...
Although props for knowing how to showcase men's packages.
G.
Quote from: Grallon on August 27, 2015, 11:17:44 AM
Although props for knowing how to showcase men's packages.
G.
Amen!
The raven haired girl in the green mini-dress looks just like my cousin and back then would have been of similar age.
http://www.dailyoverview.com/
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ee/08/75/ee0875a94cfadaa14ab5ccb4b45dca6d.jpg)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.squarespace.com%2Fstatic%2F52b3aae6e4b00492bb71aa3d%2F551aa82ce4b08d4d8ba48641%2F551aadc9e4b06a100283001c%2F1436460532290%2F7.jpg&hash=43d67255a315f5bac51c5649009855778495c459)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.squarespace.com%2Fstatic%2F52b3aae6e4b00492bb71aa3d%2F551aa82ce4b08d4d8ba48641%2F551aae3fe4b0deb472f9197a%2F1436460343140%2F%3Fformat%3D750w&hash=9ad45c08bdce3142c06b96ce7b5353b9a8dfb3b5)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.squarespace.com%2Fstatic%2F52b3aae6e4b00492bb71aa3d%2F551aa82ce4b08d4d8ba48641%2F551aadefe4b0db1c17b4f11a%2F1434401460944%2F%3Fformat%3D750w&hash=d2bd0b5cb9069924234246e7ad0ee18cfd36fd6d)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.squarespace.com%2Fstatic%2F52b3aae6e4b00492bb71aa3d%2F551aa82ce4b08d4d8ba48641%2F551aad27e4b059b63b1bd83b%2F1434399581831%2F%3Fformat%3D750w&hash=5c5785c831df4193fa6305659f3eca76c29e2aa1)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.squarespace.com%2Fstatic%2F52b3aae6e4b00492bb71aa3d%2F551aa82ce4b08d4d8ba48641%2F551aaaafe4b0c4ea9a05d68d%2F1434399617914%2F%3Fformat%3D750w&hash=2292fdd09d2661cb8200c6c448438198b19b2fd2)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.squarespace.com%2Fstatic%2F52b3aae6e4b00492bb71aa3d%2F551aa82ce4b08d4d8ba48641%2F557f33a6e4b06b3a39963986%2F1434399669606%2FMexico%2BCity.jpg&hash=29c54c18d93822e480a5f94a6f7b846bbc8e5585)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.squarespace.com%2Fstatic%2F52b3aae6e4b00492bb71aa3d%2F551aa82ce4b08d4d8ba48641%2F557f34f4e4b09a2f78ceffc4%2F1434400025311%2FVictorville.jpg&hash=e0af47440611ce313044b0f4f6296432ddbdffbc)
Nice pics! :)
I recognize Barcelona, the Forbidden city, Palmanova, Venezia, but the others?
The big messy city seems Mexico City.
L.
Edit: no, the star-shaped one isn't Palmanova. Palmanova is bigger.
The sun shaped one is Mexico City. :) The messy one is Marrakech.
Glitches in the Matrix:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2F1V1NQnFQ.jpg&hash=8712e9f8164e00f143245b9f9796c98d19a5aab1)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2F2n7Ij0k.jpg&hash=8eb6f56232bda7ec599b2d6929daabce5b249968)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2F5rJXFX76.jpg&hash=e3f587391b0808d5049854b686825fae54ce46d4)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2F6S7yDX3h.jpg&hash=dd9bdc1daa59999c35860011842c9ae9fdaca82c)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2F7zfpF99h.jpg&hash=d567f3e647de8aa69dcd741278349197d090c585)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2F9WmTf4T3.jpg&hash=2da6f73e7dc59426f793be606ee1b30d87e15450)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2F10sVA6.jpg&hash=5f58edc307ee0776222e57ddc84d1e0ded73df35)
Quote from: Pedrito on October 08, 2015, 12:39:31 PM
Nice pics! :)
I recognize Barcelona, the Forbidden city, Palmanova, Venezia, but the others?
The big messy city seems Mexico City.
L.
Edit: no, the star-shaped one isn't Palmanova. Palmanova is bigger.
No, not Palmanova. I think it's Bourtange in the Netherlands.
I think most people will find at least a half-dozen astonishing images in this Reuters slideshow of images from the news this week, some of the images might be bit strong but worth a viewing here:
http://uk.reuters.com/news/picture/photos-of-the-week?articleId=USRTS5OLJ (http://uk.reuters.com/news/picture/photos-of-the-week?articleId=USRTS5OLJ)
I won't spoil the effect by posting images in this thread, I feel it's better to view all twenty together and be able to read the descriptive notes.
Kim knows where it's at.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.reutersmedia.net%2Fresources%2Fr%2F%3Fm%3D02%26amp%3Bd%3D20151022%26amp%3Bt%3D2%26amp%3Bi%3D1088958746%26amp%3Bw%3D976%26amp%3Bfh%3D%26amp%3Bfw%3D%26amp%3Bll%3D%26amp%3Bpl%3D%26amp%3Bsq%3D%26amp%3Br%3D2015-10-22T143501Z_953_GM1EA1204DA02_RTRMADP_0_KOREA-NORTH&hash=73d5effdd43926333f258eaab18b6ef75cf04173)
Computers and mini skirts!
http://www.vintag.es/2013/03/vintage-photos-of-mini-skirts-behind.html
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-2Smi5NZDmTc%2FUTBzEdPxSlI%2FAAAAAAACds8%2FSkGtzOeUdLU%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%281%29.jpg&hash=0c88952707f19591e7ae40329c2609d9b7f8f232)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-NXzkL16Hdy8%2FUTBzIDQz0XI%2FAAAAAAACdtE%2FgxlIdkaQVV0%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%2811%29.jpg&hash=a74da9efc80da45acabbcaf00aad5f19a05f3c5b)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-AzIcUAFE3Qk%2FUTBzIQKOO6I%2FAAAAAAACdtI%2FHgN-53Cv3aU%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%2810%29.jpg&hash=5da5ccdd1fbda666b3761fa56a4266aa5f502910)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-w4ODMAoqNTc%2FUTBzJSJvP8I%2FAAAAAAACdtU%2F4k_7eRp0B4M%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%282%29.jpg&hash=0e3c9ef610792c733747d269302373f715f4b8cd)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-UuDUVdNj_wM%2FUTBzJrABzRI%2FAAAAAAACdtc%2F-ILpHNSZ46w%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%281%29.png&hash=c7679981f3accb64396ead5460dda74aec5fcc2c)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-K7vf7DireCQ%2FUTBzKOE6UEI%2FAAAAAAACdtk%2Fzfwj7BvuRa4%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%2812%29.jpg&hash=689e4f780f9a1e350565a672b7bfde5d9ef34948)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-h5Lc85HJb0c%2FUTBzKZemp7I%2FAAAAAAACdto%2F22Ghsd2KRYU%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%283%29.jpg&hash=135d92f48bcf7dbfd706f7e0e2980108e3e0a037)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-1i6Alx8UU8Y%2FUTBzMB-GNKI%2FAAAAAAACdt0%2FL1GRMgXuhGk%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%284%29.jpg&hash=b88737ae6480f34e672f425c027f714a05838a6c)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-OH68-YphwOg%2FUTBzcqTVEHI%2FAAAAAAACduA%2FDNjGSgkpY3Y%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%282%29.png&hash=9b5e156b01066bacdebaeb52484da35eb48b4f56)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-RlEAuggu1R0%2FUTBzeIDjIjI%2FAAAAAAACduI%2Fh_g68K9YICA%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%283%29.png&hash=cc3482c1813eef87dc69fa74871c7809663cd5ac)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-GhL3A19f6AY%2FUTBzgl9APyI%2FAAAAAAACduQ%2FfCom0wfQbi0%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%284%29.png&hash=4d00a9d0ad432471bd13c18fb8d054e51c8a814a)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-FZIHAY1XfLY%2FUTBzhN2NJXI%2FAAAAAAACduU%2F7tgZVlDfo6o%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%285%29.jpg&hash=2f3d0ec4cb7f593cf05ea4808b334dbe5b0df61a)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-gLIEtvYTu-4%2FUTBzjS60RFI%2FAAAAAAACdug%2FtRpLZNIaehI%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%285%29.png&hash=3fc7578ca2dce560397b71779fc643c9f4dd0216)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-52Xbm3fj96c%2FUTBzkZaGqgI%2FAAAAAAACduo%2FbIzO5-I6v-4%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%286%29.jpg&hash=d2cae9a840ea960e4f156c3f44e18fb02d100838)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-BWFjEdY5Z-g%2FUTBzllGDJeI%2FAAAAAAACduw%2FbTT7XUrdObs%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%286%29.png&hash=7059411a7966ff90967cde4a5233f5a57426eaf5)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-YLaAF1dVn2Q%2FUTBznOve_yI%2FAAAAAAACdu4%2FXdKQJNPMH3Y%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%287%29.jpg&hash=4c7ac16ed1b31527d04950cd9410ac25e037e878)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-W8Gz994Bpzk%2FUTBzoyxDTkI%2FAAAAAAACdvA%2F-WxtdXOsDLc%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%288%29.jpg&hash=e5c7253a16a900472c39b3e9b57e2c72a49ce4fb)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-y5fHjZfzvso%2FUTBzpcSkACI%2FAAAAAAACdvI%2Fis3qo3xwPV0%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%287%29.png&hash=02d7ed5e61b6cf5d672c120d57d82113174792e5)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-mq1_gwYl_sU%2FUTBzrkuBaVI%2FAAAAAAACdvQ%2FpXZOVciPuho%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%288%29.png&hash=026bd0750fc58cd9e1c0199fe8477477a452eca7)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-iFWRSgzBx9I%2FUTBzsYy6JNI%2FAAAAAAACdvY%2FDIkcsRlNN44%2Fs640%2FVintage%2BPhotos%2Bof%2BMini-skirts%2BBehind%2BComputers%2B%289%29.jpg&hash=d72e33e51b2354d486123d787aae78b365e8778d)
Well done!
The manly men of Finland. They look like a crossbreed of American rednecks and Russian alcoholics. :hmm:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fzeit-magazin%2Fleben%2F2015-11%2Ffinnland-iikka-tolonen-fs-bilder%2Fbitblt-884x597-30a41735b842d4603940ca42b8633e45006723ee%2F01-finnland-tolonen.jpg&hash=84ebef8233ffa3d78edd68d21b4fd7e2e8f177f2)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fzeit-magazin%2Fleben%2F2015-11%2Ffinnland-iikka-tolonen-fs-bilder%2Fbitblt-884x597-30a41735b842d4603940ca42b8633e45006723ee%2F02-finnland-tolonen.jpg&hash=11af49e83b150e2bcd91e42e9f9fcb5c0187a750)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fzeit-magazin%2Fleben%2F2015-11%2Ffinnland-iikka-tolonen-fs-bilder%2Fbitblt-884x600-3dc9561e70415a78210227cacf5f5997a1f51c3b%2F03-finnland-tolonen.jpg&hash=57c30573ebe63f71e154fff0f003f0b9d9c2780d)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fzeit-magazin%2Fleben%2F2015-11%2Ffinnland-iikka-tolonen-fs-bilder%2Fbitblt-884x572-c8d4a5ea0bcefebd0e650e9e762daa53a99e8fa3%2F04-finnland-tolonen.jpg&hash=ab4712b8c08debe27c8c82064a8a95f60bef732a)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fzeit-magazin%2Fleben%2F2015-11%2Ffinnland-iikka-tolonen-fs-bilder%2Fbitblt-884x592-f4f75df9d6e5de9b049d3fbec07268d4f21864b7%2F06-finnland-tolonen.jpg&hash=b2a350c1b84891a06fc9167a2c1f6b3dd8ac52bc)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fzeit-magazin%2Fleben%2F2015-11%2Ffinnland-iikka-tolonen-fs-bilder%2Fbitblt-884x696-150a5b2a5cbc788c3873809c90d08bece7107a0e%2F07-finnland-tolonen.jpg&hash=6dc76369b03eb7c813499f7adb980b434bb39910)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fzeit-magazin%2Fleben%2F2015-11%2Ffinnland-iikka-tolonen-fs-bilder%2Fbitblt-884x1103-1319c1fb07de42a023ebfe91465042b6e40cf387%2F08-finnland-tolonen.jpg&hash=c26764a3397bca2a25d35d973639bad434c650a2)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fzeit-magazin%2Fleben%2F2015-11%2Ffinnland-iikka-tolonen-fs-bilder%2Fbitblt-884x589-88040bdffa4997c8ced2ef9669c680a2927b9165%2F09-finnland-tolonen.jpg&hash=2b5fbeff34da23f9001fc81a6bd232d0f65ec60a)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fzeit-magazin%2Fleben%2F2015-11%2Ffinnland-iikka-tolonen-fs-bilder%2Fbitblt-884x589-88040bdffa4997c8ced2ef9669c680a2927b9165%2F11-finnland-tolonen.jpg&hash=76234d746f6c80e6d94cc21a2bb110505fbdb50c)
While I am honored to see us being included in such august company why do they have an American flag there?
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 10:08:26 AM
While I am honored to see us being included in such august company why do they have an American flag there?
*somethingsomething*cars*somethingsomthing*motorcycles*somethingsomething* ?
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 10:08:26 AM
While I am honored to see us being included in such august company why do they have an American flag there?
Perhaps they actually *are* a crossbreed of American rednecks and Russian alcoholics. :P
The second picture could be out of a Jim Jarmusch movie.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fzeit-magazin%2Fleben%2F2015-11%2Ffinnland-iikka-tolonen-fs-bilder%2Fbitblt-884x597-30a41735b842d4603940ca42b8633e45006723ee%2F02-finnland-tolonen.jpg&hash=11af49e83b150e2bcd91e42e9f9fcb5c0187a750)
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 10:08:26 AM
While I am honored to see us being included in such august company why do they have an American flag there?
Brain I think it was that mentioned the Swedish ruggerbugger subculture which celebrated American redneckedness. I assume this is related.
From a 1985 Christmas catalog:
Quotehttp://www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Screen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.17.01.png
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2FScreen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.17.36.png&hash=1c899716778b92a6089a8156602e5eeb1f9295e8)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2FScreen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.18.02.png&hash=930b203a5da1297baedc0ec34254fc644f102f4d)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2FScreen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.18.42-1024x578.png&hash=f9e24fef9288c9052e5f046502f95fe100480f3d)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2FScreen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.18.54.png&hash=6df21f4b24bffe7ca6bb29e6f1752fdd08143487)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2FScreen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.19.06.png&hash=f442c397902c6aebac713e55c1ddbbf4f5aaf768)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2FScreen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.20.05-1024x433.png&hash=188eeb56580dd5b406b9fdf427ad15596a173f88)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2FScreen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.20.32-1024x538.png&hash=f1e488d0013c684aaf5a27fd976db2252b8b7244)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2FScreen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.20.50-1024x556.png&hash=5373ec8dc6eb143cec919fa926987c8a9155f158)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2FScreen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.21.32-1024x640.png&hash=c8a285748d9ddbffd1d58b3c2bf2545ffdb4e2d0)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2FScreen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.21.35.png&hash=9b2cb30767e071ad9bf4f77f30e1dcc8fb731698)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2FScreen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.21.50.png&hash=8cdd6631ba5263dd3203e11a2b84aec30df23192)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2FScreen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.22.45-1024x334.png&hash=a4e552faf944da91de71611af7c1c9964e2a5982)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2FScreen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.23.12.png&hash=b99956a17ba4eb4b7e4a312f0ec2dab6e9fdf07c)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2FScreen-Shot-2015-12-10-at-16.24.19.png&hash=c7d0634aa1e678ff5bd03421514d7cb30edd0800)
Quote from: Syt on December 10, 2015, 03:50:50 AM
The manly men of Finland. They look like a crossbreed of American rednecks and Russian alcoholics. :hmm:
Is this why Languishites always get mistaken for Finns at overseas meets :P
Quote from: Syt on December 11, 2015, 04:32:15 AM
From a 1985 Christmas catalog:
I actually had a few of those toys. :)
A bit more Xmas nostalgia:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-p0UYQu-b2sI%2FVmnTTZlvrmI%2FAAAAAAAB-x8%2FH9Hg5nYf_p4%2Fs1600%2FWeird%252BVintage%252BChristmas%252BAds%252B%2525288%252529.jpg&hash=a18dcefd194da2a1f0c2a14f8f2cec8fdd5e2ef5)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Y6G-I4ec9-c%2FVmnSIVboKZI%2FAAAAAAAB-uE%2FrdNp0YUGP5g%2Fs1600%2FWeird%252BVintage%252BChristmas%252BAds%252B%25252810%252529.jpg&hash=8ac05e6461ce50d0a2f0df9993625b1643332d6a)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Ad6frW_zmYA%2FVmnSPtrQ9gI%2FAAAAAAAB-uU%2F-eegZH0LQHs%2Fs1600%2FWeird%252BVintage%252BChristmas%252BAds%252B%25252814%252529.jpg&hash=3593d6a11b2cad065043eea43248b2aace0c9cc0)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-EUvNH2dGsR8%2FVmnTNY2u8oI%2FAAAAAAAB-xs%2FR0Pr_gfsK00%2Fs1600%2FWeird%252BVintage%252BChristmas%252BAds%252B%2525285%252529.jpg&hash=dbd7aa3b66639877fbb720e4749ba5f124c1cbac)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Dc9pPLQaLH4%2FVmnSyMHKDsI%2FAAAAAAAB-wk%2F6Z6QeDNd4z8%2Fs1600%2FWeird%252BVintage%252BChristmas%252BAds%252B%2525283%252529.jpg&hash=305aaa69840da0164c577eb5ad87e99d13433a3c)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-ZNb9Z8E79Pg%2FVmnTKezI6iI%2FAAAAAAAB-xk%2FEAD5HnCQZRk%2Fs1600%2FWeird%252BVintage%252BChristmas%252BAds%252B%2525284%252529.jpg&hash=2742c11e2fa17b54551bbac81fdc1a5133170cb1)
Those all seem a bit before our time. Well except Grumbler.
I recognize Bing and Bob but who are those other two guys? :hmm:
Quote from: Valmy on December 11, 2015, 09:05:32 AM
Those all seem a bit before our time. Well except Grumbler.
I recognize Bing and Bob but who are those other two guys? :hmm:
Perry Como is a singer; he's sort of like Andy Williams. I don't know anything about Arthur Godfrey.
My mom and my grandmother saw Andy Williams in Branson a few years ago.
Here's one of Perry's better known songs Catch a Falling Star (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdK1wvKAFfg)
And here's a Perry singing the Anvilania National Anthem (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgqcmzMTtY0) ;)
That bootshine one is pretty PG-13. Must have been in a men's magazine.
That picture from the catalog of the Return of Jedi toys. I once, literally every single one of those as a kid. :cry:
70s New York
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-10.jpg&hash=a60e2c81f5777b6162447579ebed925bdacf64a1)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-4.jpg&hash=44ab41eaa3d2b0711c9ad43d524f46929f570ecd)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-5.jpg&hash=613624ac3e152d89643fe8e30de2bb37748ad300)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-6.jpg&hash=041f7b55b7b22e3f710a84bca3f57858d9d18151)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-7.jpg&hash=c534d3060269f5b6f76e52c8d56150d7b8784c09)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-8.jpg&hash=afc4ba27d239628f8ddd3bcc96109d9134145c3b)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-9.jpg&hash=92ff99a452b05b54963b2db69e7b20d0624d5560)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-15.jpg&hash=2d62a343d4796fe956475ace2eafa162469af0df)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-12.jpg&hash=e6d723092d2b73d7cf4cebe749d07be8a6a5ac01)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-24.jpg&hash=c80ef3959d214feafcafd41eccaacb209e2adf8b)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-17.jpg&hash=05a56b0c93af8e82305e420417f40b4330d87bdb)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-18.jpg&hash=b0b50143cafd04987d6d6d4333ebf872cf2c2712)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-20.jpg&hash=2e43c39f31ccb3ec665a4c9e5f97f409c033e467)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-23.jpg&hash=9dd2ad233e9088d54ec746ee09ff26fa4d7fbac1)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fadmin.mashable.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-27.jpg&hash=016bb668b077eb242463a0fc4fa2f13a170e1c2a)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-1.jpg&hash=e59a10b50aaf59d1a92609e3a8c4eaf7b311e154)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-11.jpg&hash=c4243a6dbc220ecc6fbd28daf3bde684551face6)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.mshcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fvergara-3.jpg&hash=cdfa69878d12f4cf7698e51cbbec4405478fbf7a)
Source: http://mashable.com/2015/12/09/new-york-1970s-vergaras/#m2MsXAJ2Gkq6
Cool pictures, Jake. :)
Woah. 70s New York looked positively third world. :(
Quote from: Malthus on December 15, 2015, 02:06:12 PM
Woah. 70s New York looked positively third world. :(
Yeah, things changed. I recall 70s American drama movies on TV in the 80s, and as a kid I hated them, because they were slow, boring, and took place in depressing, desolate, decaying city scapes. :D
But yeah, in the 80s you could still make a show like The Equalizer, but these days Daredevil taking place in Hell's Kitchen has people go, "Oh, but it's such a nice (gentrified) neighborhood, and they're exaggerating!"
Just remember The Warriors.
50 color pictures of WW2 plane nose art: http://www.vintag.es/2016/09/50-color-vintage-photographs-captured.html
A few samples (larger pictures at the link):
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-u3wfywF-L6Y/V9migbgUQaI/AAAAAAACXnU/yoIeJYQwCjgt46daaut0bXjyWV56j0bKQCLcB/s640/Flight-Jacket-Art-WWII-5.JPG)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-F3mz1mr6Yfk/V9migsj7V_I/AAAAAAACXnc/riWhpKsxTzMAom1TAVIp6O7kekfkb05rgCLcB/s640/Flight-Jacket-Art-WWII-6.JPG)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-H48fSuHPg-s/V9miWj-X6YI/AAAAAAACXks/Ive8MvR9BhUARgRa2PD4fR-1T-P1tzYKgCLcB/s640/Flight-Jacket-Art-WWII-11.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0Q9l6LARrno/V9miW2yv2RI/AAAAAAACXkw/R3nV6K1Z1rIU96K490qj4xVoVPpnlle1wCLcB/s640/Flight-Jacket-Art-WWII-12.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iStnzqL7y4Q/V9miXuQliwI/AAAAAAACXk8/uxcoadXGVgIAsitzxeHSMN7pintJKprCgCLcB/s640/Flight-Jacket-Art-WWII-15.png)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YM8YAH73oW0/V9miYV5iqFI/AAAAAAACXlI/vBxt4gFGhqsQw8sVWF5bs-_wXhUzUUZfwCLcB/s640/Flight-Jacket-Art-WWII-18.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WBhupfjabUs/V9miYmV7gpI/AAAAAAACXlM/sAzaPH-U4dksa4-0nQh8mHs0aUK_j-C0gCLcB/s640/Flight-Jacket-Art-WWII-19.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fA5smn2ahuw/V9miZQwD0bI/AAAAAAACXlY/fuagKUcIbPkMic_mINq080OjKBGpbyM9wCLcB/s640/Flight-Jacket-Art-WWII-22.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/--uILcIeSl-k/V9miaw0LCDI/AAAAAAACXlw/ngYGp6qmeAcmUGaJ02HDy1SCoTVzGMgNwCLcB/s640/Flight-Jacket-Art-WWII-28.JPG)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q5vPNICVSKI/V9mid6c5y9I/AAAAAAACXms/qBu79RrKED0y470l2ttrf4cK7g7CoX93ACLcB/s640/Flight-Jacket-Art-WWII-40.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ty7FyZhe6yo/V9mieT-xL_I/AAAAAAACXm4/jt9iM-43L_YH4TF_kQTV-vkgxCxsB37GgCLcB/s640/Flight-Jacket-Art-WWII-42.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GTDLXv9l3yg/V9mif65rLNI/AAAAAAACXnM/Xa7PlQ5J69cZpxa_N7ZDPnkbocmk2VrcACLcB/s640/Flight-Jacket-Art-WWII-47.jpg)
And for CdM:
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IOSPx9QqgvE/V9mif7u3IGI/AAAAAAACXnI/NMUubszTQhAHrm_e5fjEDSAUdctigGLjwCLcB/s640/Flight-Jacket-Art-WWII-48.jpg)
re Love's Baby Soft: :lol:
From the series of "Ads you can't run anymore (except in India, mabye)":
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-V-MTAgnaC3Q/V-AxtbvBlII/AAAAAAACYEs/HqFZz8rCt70NdAUvpp9wr109jHhKUUtVwCLcB/s1600/broomsticks-4.jpg)
This, kids, is an example of accessible primary whacking material of the 1960s.
Quote from: Syt on September 23, 2016, 05:27:21 AM
From the series of "Ads you can't run anymore (except in India, mabye)":
For another, see my avatar pic. ;)
We would, but because you can't resize thumbnails for shit, we just kind of guess at it. Looks like a cheetah.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 23, 2016, 08:42:13 AM
We would, but because you can't resize thumbnails for shit, we just kind of guess at it. Looks like a cheetah.
Probably for the best. :D
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/sexist-ads-mad-men-era-gallery-1.1050013?pmSlide=1.1050009
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-INcZtJh8J5U/V-l24k8_RdI/AAAAAAACYqo/1L7WXnZVTeQf36h-R1sZOfYF5zhpmsp-ACLcB/s1600/creepy-kids-in-creepy-vintage-ads-6.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7m2vlIOepvM/V-l22F-d5EI/AAAAAAACYp8/GZAzWz8kedE4dJfsOmDKe_McfDqYdApgACLcB/s1600/creepy-kids-in-creepy-vintage-ads-3.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gDU6YWQO6yo/V-l2xyVmyXI/AAAAAAACYos/7dpZbY79vdAD1TVBPsVBgWz-fzrukESJQCLcB/s1600/creepy-kids-in-creepy-vintage-ads-1.jpg)
:ph34r:
Wow. Growing up in the 50s looks horrifying.
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2016, 07:37:20 AM
Wow. Growing up in the 50s looks horrifying.
On the other hand there were no blacks in the 50s. They weren't invented until the late 1960s by the left wing liberal media elite.
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2016, 07:36:08 AM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7m2vlIOepvM/V-l22F-d5EI/AAAAAAACYp8/GZAzWz8kedE4dJfsOmDKe_McfDqYdApgACLcB/s1600/creepy-kids-in-creepy-vintage-ads-3.jpg)
It's the Donner Party Descendants family reunion! :D
I'm more freaked out by the one gleefully watching the blood of the vanquished being spread on her toast.
I'd post pics of 70's jello dishes, but even I'm not that cruel.
http://www.vintag.es/2017/01/naser-al-din-shah-qajar-and-his-84.html
QuoteNaser al-Din Shah Qajar and His 84 Wives: Rare Photographs and Story of the Iranian Shah and His Harem
In 1842 the 11 year-old heir to the Persian throne received a camera from Queen Victoria of England. The young heir fell in love with the magical contraption. In the following decades he documented his life, revealing to the public eye, what it was never supposed to see.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6HUI9thNr38/WHfYmrlt1MI/AAAAAAAChqY/J6iRjtNO1gMgBVI3SdnWnnuTE57pWKPagCLcB/s1600/nasseredin-shah-harem-1.jpg)
One of Shah Qajar's many passions was photography. From his early days he loved to take photos from his childhood, and when he came to power he decided to create the world's first official photo studio at his court.
In the 1870s, Russian photographer Anton Sevryugin opened a workshop in Tehran. He became official photographer to the Persian court. Sevryugin made a photographic record of Persia, and he was awarded an imperial title for his services.
The Russian photographer could take pictures of the Shah himself, as well as his male relatives, courtesans and servants. Qajar reserved for himself the right to photograph the harem, in which historians believe he had approximately 100 concubines.
It is known that Naser al-Din Shah developed the photos in a darkroom at the court and kept them in large albums in the Golestan palace, which is now a museum.
What makes these photographs extraordinary is that Shiia custom of the time forbade the photography of peoples' faces, especially those of women. Only the most powerful man in the country could afford to break this custom.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1XJP8990olc/WHfYoPpC6oI/AAAAAAAChrM/ifL5mAKAPWwIILeDmoHntylIPUqUJ0pRgCEw/s1600/nasseredin-shah-harem-5.jpg)
The incomparable Anis al-Doleh was the Shah's favourite wife. (On the right)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IJpH9X1kKtc/WHfYoKsO1hI/AAAAAAAChrM/hh48lTTZ7yU765pA7aVbz_6JtCICxr81wCEw/s1600/nasseredin-shah-harem-4.jpg)
Plumpness was one of the main criteria of beauty
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UTU0OiNHEaQ/WHfYmvhfyYI/AAAAAAAChrM/U-GwrGYRedw7eWy_TgnWlrSl38cKLO63ACEw/s1600/nasseredin-shah-harem-10.jpg)
Young concubine with a hookah.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CFyFg2psyRE/WHfYoUt3hDI/AAAAAAAChrM/gtZa6oueuf8ZwLf0ou3-lMuyFslTYDi1gCEw/s1600/nasseredin-shah-harem-6.jpg)
Anis al-Doleh, known as the Shah's soulmate
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Vz8si_kj89Q/WHfYoyEzrYI/AAAAAAAChrM/BBkSXcGdEDsS1aRZfs7VU_QIb5gARMh9QCEw/s1600/nasseredin-shah-harem-7.jpg)
The incomparable Anis al-Doleh (sitting).
[...]
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9nQqyY5SMno/WHfYmviNJ-I/AAAAAAAChrM/88emKu4TDfQ7RL5iHZ_U9PrB8Jr3iXxlgCEw/s1600/nasseredin-shah-harem-11.jpg)
Ladies from the harem in 'shaliteh' skirts.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gSv-qqPnzi4/WHfYnP6dktI/AAAAAAAChrM/YiUjwcORA6o0WXKjFUPc__Kj1VBWvg10ACEw/s1600/nasseredin-shah-harem-12.jpg)
(http://ladiesfromtheharemin'shaliteh'skirts.)
[...]
If horses were courses, I guess...
Do his wifes have moustaches :unsure: :huh:
It's as if the Shah went into the future, developed a Breshnev fetish, and then took it back in time with him.
Or, instead of Brezhnev, he was inspired by Monty Python.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/9f/3b/2b/9f3b2bc1b48cfba22bfed43921f5caa3.jpg)
I really don't know what to say about that.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0GC0KbF2olI/WFakXnWws1I/AAAAAAACfVg/cMzTI-tgo60k1r6coYtfmAQsUvXFNjdzwCLcB/s1600/vintage-tech-ads-1.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DDLCawYOgwM/WFakvhRD4pI/AAAAAAACfXg/1HmI8yQLRWITqX4-G97MOrnHb2owLgQDwCLcB/s1600/vintage-tech-ads-4.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZjXu7mWGM-E/WFakwsqDxJI/AAAAAAACfXk/l1kZ2JZyYRs0IPkTJktdZsso3_51VQQrQCLcB/s1600/vintage-tech-ads-5.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lr1UcBVMS5o/WFakjgEgUXI/AAAAAAACfV8/NgUsmzWOIGM44_oFyeYIUKQ7k-gF4MvUgCLcB/s1600/vintage-tech-ads-17.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fuo9rThVFrM/WFaknXhQQgI/AAAAAAACfWM/1z9hvgk-sTUK8nFFxHQOpR5FIlgOVCfVgCLcB/s1600/vintage-tech-ads-21.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UnWoD7VdT7E/WFakq2XgxFI/AAAAAAACfWs/GxNWe0ngCqcT-PhatDY8wsqpNQQGn_qJACLcB/s1600/vintage-tech-ads-29.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CqjqerCzhBg/WFakrhe3_pI/AAAAAAACfW4/Ge2S74qMoTkioN3CMBb1S7YmdOcFfSwzQCLcB/s1600/vintage-tech-ads-31.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-O08lAQdCQO4/WFaksnM8DkI/AAAAAAACfXI/GAjJoMHkwusGndMgZjS2Njuh4G7jXWEOACLcB/s1600/vintage-tech-ads-33.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8SaB-TGasXw/WFaksgd6tiI/AAAAAAACfXE/VqptevLG8M8pjey8B1XJJbfYFf62fzAMQCLcB/s1600/vintage-tech-ads-35.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-m3Q_ERNGFNk/WFaktvWcslI/AAAAAAACfXU/hJUWhdzBuBol2wa1DJmgNZtnd26yP7ofgCLcB/s1600/vintage-tech-ads-36.jpg)
CdM looks startled.
Bonus: a commercial for the VIC-20 with the guy who played T.J. Hooker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK9VU1aJvTI
Bill had some ugly rugs.
The C64 ad was correct as far as I was concerned - it was the only computer I needed for years to come. I got so much value out of that thing.
C64 and Amiga were the golden decade of Commodore.
that three button mouse scares and confuses me.
Quote from: HVC on March 17, 2017, 12:32:23 PM
that three button mouse scares and confuses me.
On that note: thank fuck we don't need to clean mouse roller balls anymore. :bleeding:
Quote from: Syt on March 17, 2017, 12:37:41 PM
On that note: thank fuck we don't need to clean mouse roller balls anymore. :bleeding:
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Syt on March 17, 2017, 12:37:41 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 17, 2017, 12:32:23 PM
that three button mouse scares and confuses me.
On that note: thank fuck we don't need to clean mouse roller balls anymore. :bleeding:
CdM does.
What always disturbs me most about those old hardware ads is how much those dollars were worth then compared to now (almost three times as much). :mono:
Ah, good old-fashioned racism.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YN289jLaPhU/WM2XVe-G-8I/AAAAAAACnGY/28CYmhwlR2U8UxCaJIvEfPzq_5ABvgtzgCLcB/s1600/vintage-soap-ads-2.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YDOYigtLeuk/WM2XZGPgcOI/AAAAAAACnGs/Ea3qJE7HgxIvliY2_8YQ0ZWhASz6hRI-ACLcB/s1600/vintage-soap-ads-7.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hTAgbZm8mRc/WM2XaW0MHJI/AAAAAAACnGw/E2O9948idKkVA2WiwhqUsEe2rKbVcuPLgCLcB/s1600/vintage-soap-ads-9.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EcwwJVxsqZE/WM2XSAXYEeI/AAAAAAACnGE/6Op2O-o4jfU7jKPvPpUDduFwxogkkGdUwCLcB/s1600/vintage-soap-ads-12.jpeg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gpQmtqlKlEk/WM2XUBDjTtI/AAAAAAACnGQ/i57UIqT5pWInSONM7OpWB9HdjULwjSeswCLcB/s1600/vintage-soap-ads-16.jpg)
They look like they could have been in Bioshock Infinite.
I'm offended by the sentence, "It costs so little and don't injure the clothes."
Quote from: alfred russel on March 19, 2017, 09:22:29 AM
I'm offended by the sentence, "It costs so little and don't injure the clothes."
lol, Mono getting kicked out of the tub, take that, opium slut.
Quote from: Syt on March 17, 2017, 11:57:51 AM
Bonus: a commercial for the VIC-20 with the guy who played T.J. Hooker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK9VU1aJvTI
Somewhere buried deep in my archives I have a trifold brochure for the Vic-20 with William Shatner I picked up from Sears as a kid.
Don't ask me why that thing has traveled with me this long, I found a pad of hall passes for my junior high school the other day. The fuck.
I miss that America from those ads.
All the Finland pics on page 3 are dead.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 19, 2017, 07:13:42 PM
I miss that America from those ads.
The Vic-20 wasn't all that, man.
Ah, Russian weddings.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2FyW1dHoy.jpg&hash=8a22171ff58af5e665611d4f1c8dd468f082bfe8)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Fp1dZBnM.jpg&hash=58f8706ab788557c21b2066d619a98fcc296d796)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2FIaNLgbo.jpg&hash=11b2823917205e8308ba17b0af169a2347e47366)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2F2qIa73r.jpg&hash=9cdcfb5c1f5885d5611a32b11c4ce630ef377626)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2FbKEjx2i.jpg&hash=43fd8decc54fc690a793986baeef6204bf962741)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2F0_14c9ea_69495d41_orig.jpg&hash=2e7a3de5508ef520ec723e5aee3a133663d08fcf)
And a bonus one that might be from a David Lynch movie ... :hmm:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2F6J2PT7Y.jpg&hash=53a69ed682ac86faa355fecea871117f58d55947)
Looks like they're having fun :)
What is up with the accordions?
Quote from: Valmy on March 29, 2017, 11:15:52 AM
What is up with the accordions?
Accordions are great for impromptu musical performances and sing-alongs.
It's a cultural thing... just like crappy DJs or cheesy cover bands are for North American weddings.
I was not questioning the usefulness of accordions I was just not aware they were a Russian thing. And hey it is not our fault everybody has a cousin in a cheesy cover band.
Quote from: Valmy on March 29, 2017, 11:24:16 AM
I was not questioning the usefulness of accordions I was just not aware they were a Russian thing.
I think they're relativel popular in other Slavic cultures as well.
QuoteAnd hey it is not our fault everybody has a cousin in a cheesy cover band.
:lol:
No blame needs to be distributed :)
Quote from: Valmy on March 29, 2017, 11:24:16 AM
I was not questioning the usefulness of accordions I was just not aware they were a Russian thing. And hey it is not our fault everybody has a cousin in a cheesy cover band.
Accordions are big in all the Jew-hating cultures over there; in fact, the word "accordion" is loosely based on the Slavic for "sounds a Jew makes when crushed for Christ.," or something to that effect.
Quote from: Valmy on March 29, 2017, 11:24:16 AM
I was not questioning the usefulness of accordions I was just not aware they were a Russian thing. And hey it is not our fault everybody has a cousin in a cheesy cover band.
At Christmas at my brother and sister-inlaws, my niece got an LP player as a gift (everything old is new again). So her dad, my brother-in-law, dragged out some 30 or more year old records from somewhere of Ukrainian music (he's also Ukrainian by ancestry, but no relative of mine). That stuff was gloriously awful, did feature accordions quite heavily, yet did have a toe-tapping quality to them. :D
My niece looked a little like she wished she'd kept the record player in the box.
The chick holding the carpet on the right has weird feet. GROSS
Eww, you're right. Gollum feet.
:lol:
I have strange powers of observation.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sWeWcmGC8Ug/WIM0xL0ID4I/AAAAAAACiW8/pCPoeKXgBVItBioJL5aeW-bC6cCYFC2AgCLcB/s1600/computer-ads-1980s-7.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6CEmz8F-31k/WIM0vQn6L_I/AAAAAAACiWc/sWCH7-1omMI8yAnBc2-xi0oAXqt3obG_wCLcB/s1600/computer-ads-1980s-10.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3oOnzjn1ahw/WIM0va2EuMI/AAAAAAACiWY/wZexRdLMMMsrTmp-BOtqZYTD5Vozc1FBACLcB/s640/computer-ads-1980s-1.jpg)
Fuck you, Syt. I had Music Maker. :mad:
Did you have a pink cardigan, though?
Do you *still* have a pink cardigan? :unsure:
Sometimes I just like to feel pretty.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 16, 2017, 07:38:32 AM
Fuck you, Syt. I had Music Maker. :mad:
HA HA YOU HAD A TI!
Yugoslav album covers: http://www.vintag.es/2017/05/40-hilarious-and-really-bad-vintage.html
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qO1kGUrl7UE/WRax-90MP9I/AAAAAAACrEw/MYqJoOhiHEIVvCOGxYOCnz9HP56fUUVEACLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-1.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-F6w7BsmgPGs/WRayD6s8cfI/AAAAAAACrGA/px2SYIqgZkg8WVdj297IcW4ifb5qcHAYACLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-4.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-L8F4UZXagI0/WRayEPb6RSI/AAAAAAACrGE/yg52Zyso-MkZZPCzi7iirqdWRvQ8G_J3ACLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-5.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NrMspIS_bvo/WRayEsqsAKI/AAAAAAACrGM/DZbVCcMM8Z8YzixfiuCaKni4NI8-gZyeQCLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-8.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bQPdywpIOe0/WRax-wvuiKI/AAAAAAACrEo/EDNhePwNkAs6-wG81LlTvwdpXSxjMBtTwCLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-11.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CdDvn36TB6k/WRayAFNYg_I/AAAAAAACrFA/DQKVyhRBn3IeEUyFCnp6mB7XZ19hQ3BdwCLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-15.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XGH_h7X4JKM/WRayAKbM9qI/AAAAAAACrFE/DD04hynY5a48JRvL1Bl7b0oCqC0RAAENgCLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-16.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZaSbT-dV5bE/WRayBogAq6I/AAAAAAACrFY/o2g5LXzvQfIYza1WjwFaSELcJNna4o9LwCLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-22.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XZD5busCwdA/WRayDKl_7DI/AAAAAAACrFw/67OpMYHYAhYh-lstrv6XqbuJO3EAjdLqgCLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-26.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bbxpObe7ARk/WRa4QjS2vfI/AAAAAAACrHI/Rjo9qU_m0T4F7hUF_bKKOyCwfF-pagoIQCLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-33.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0pJXnTsQp5A/WRa4RaRsnqI/AAAAAAACrHM/XNKvzyV6XGkEYxc9x2HQj2Eqjg8au7n7QCLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-35.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VCkfa5zrCtQ/WRa4R-K2tgI/AAAAAAACrHU/c-75ZM6lTY4JKAXxaKYUnzh2A_wE3GAnACLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-37.jpg)
Was there some sort of ugly person competition for those album cover models? :lol:
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-L8F4UZXagI0/WRayEPb6RSI/AAAAAAACrGE/yg52Zyso-MkZZPCzi7iirqdWRvQ8G_J3ACLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-5.jpg)
I do not demand women shave their legs or anything but a shin full of leg hair front and center is a bad look for either gender :P
Quote from: Malthus on May 18, 2017, 10:59:40 AM
Was there some sort of ugly person competition for those album cover models? :lol:
Supposedly Russia takes a lot of ethnic pride for having the HOTTEST ladies in Euroland. Maybe Yugoslavs took ethnic pride for having the ugliest.
Quote from: Valmy on May 18, 2017, 11:00:38 AM
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-L8F4UZXagI0/WRayEPb6RSI/AAAAAAACrGE/yg52Zyso-MkZZPCzi7iirqdWRvQ8G_J3ACLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-5.jpg)
I do not demand women shave their legs or anything but a shin full of leg hair front and center is a bad look for either gender :P
Not totally certain which gender this person is. :hmm:
Quote from: Valmy on May 18, 2017, 11:00:38 AM
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-L8F4UZXagI0/WRayEPb6RSI/AAAAAAACrGE/yg52Zyso-MkZZPCzi7iirqdWRvQ8G_J3ACLcB/s1600/worst-yugoslavian-album-covers-5.jpg)
I do not demand women shave their legs or anything but a shin full of leg hair front and center is a bad look for either gender :P
But especially for women :yuk:
Anyway, thanks Syt. They make US album covers from the 70s look good by comparison.
I didn't know that Tamas put out albums.
Goddamn, I miss the Iron Curtain. So we didn't have to see that shit.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b0/ba/9e/b0ba9e02855436977f9d32ad13205259.jpg)
Quote from: Valmy on May 18, 2017, 11:00:38 AM
[img]
I do not demand women shave their legs or anything but a shin full of leg hair front and center is a bad look for either gender :P
Hairist
Quote from: HVC on May 18, 2017, 06:58:48 PM
Hairist
She's all yours, HVC.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwannabemagazine.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F03%2Fdlake4-naslovna.jpg&hash=b952e75bbc3b15a2f078e9992ec3bd2f111ce01a)
And no, that's not a guy grabbing her from behind.
I was more focusing on the either gender part of the post, but I can see that this has backfired badly :lol:
I don't know if the description below is legit, but if so it must be quite the lesson by Professor Anger.
I love the varying looks. The OMFG looks from obvious virgins, the jaded boredom from girls with experience that didn't enjoy and the smug smirks from the girls who did.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQvDhLUV.png&hash=75b2b05a5fe607c98f9fa812c009350b5249bfb0) (http://imgur.com/QvDhLUV)
I like the expression of the woman halfway down on the right. She doesn't need to take notes :P
my favourite is the blond in the front that looks like she's slamming her legs shut :lol:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9W7UQzT.jpg&hash=82014f1a98090b679ba578d033703707792a42a4)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbKnPVKR.jpg&hash=377b9a8e26c342936ac81063b1365f5a897f1869)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdVuS2WW.jpg&hash=a142070d60606d58db571fbde8ecdf32c0c8fdff)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FgbG0xMt.jpg&hash=ddd77818b3db797f1fb8150e66d11366dbaef362)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FLl1wtX7.jpg&hash=907b2ce62d7c9b4a54006afe6d6114cce53beb1b)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FxO5kBUR.jpg&hash=191196a9714ec5453284cf3174f6e99f48768d78)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FaBCOp16.jpg&hash=8b8b34bc6b9c9dd14808f3c2307c8b69ac617cea)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXG6UFKZ.jpg&hash=3c5a3b2fc78597f13d08f98b227578618b66d1d3)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHuTfZq4.jpg&hash=4f0baf13eac6f8df3505e287c9fa55b5b36eb73f)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F71GG2gV.jpg&hash=fb1a282faf92e63cd5cd7cf1a595cf1d49f6d427)
Soup for slurs? HOTT
Fuck, some of those are priceless
And some are probably fake.
Somebody's been visiting Engrish.com
How the other half lives in Hong Kong.
(https://i0.web.de/image/300/32375300,pd=2,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
(https://i0.web.de/image/298/32375298,pd=1,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
(https://i0.web.de/image/296/32375296,pd=2,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
(https://i0.web.de/image/294/32375294,pd=2,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
(https://i0.web.de/image/292/32375292,pd=2,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
(https://i0.web.de/image/308/32375308,pd=5,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
(https://i0.web.de/image/314/32375314,pd=2,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
(https://i0.web.de/image/306/32375306,pd=1,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
(https://i0.web.de/image/304/32375304,pd=4,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
(https://i0.web.de/image/312/32375312,pd=3,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
(https://i0.web.de/image/320/32375320,pd=2,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
(https://i0.web.de/image/318/32375318,pd=3,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
(https://i0.web.de/image/310/32375310,pd=1,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
(https://i0.web.de/image/316/32375316,pd=4,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
(https://i0.web.de/image/302/32375302,pd=2,f=size-xxl/china.jpg)
Do they score?
Damn, that's no way to live.
Poor Mono.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 13, 2017, 12:04:43 PM
Poor Mono.
My browser wont even show the images, so must be bleak. :(
Are those people living in bathrooms?
It looks like even their bathroom kitchens, they are able to cook better meals than me and my real kitchen. :blush:
Also, for comparison of social status, we need pictures of the Mono-Home. :P
Mono might not have a kitchen either, considering he eats out every meal.
Quote from: Valmy on June 13, 2017, 12:46:59 PM
Are those people living in bathrooms?
People do that here too, but at least the have the common courtesy to leave during the day when the cops shoo them out.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dg4CjvLW0AAuyz3.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dg4CjusWkAEnDpW.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dg4Cju3XkAA3L_B.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dg4CjuzXkAUKnVa.jpg)
There was once a time when American men struggled on how to gain weight :o
I'm not sure which that resembles more - Nazi propaganda, or gay porn. :D
Quote from: Malthus on June 29, 2018, 12:59:54 PM
gay porn. :D
Well they do claim an interest in sinful sex in the armed forces.
Quote from: Malthus on June 29, 2018, 12:59:54 PM
I'm not sure which that resembles more - Nazi propaganda, or gay porn. :D
You say it like it's mutually exclusive. :P
Quote from: Syt on June 29, 2018, 01:04:37 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 29, 2018, 12:59:54 PM
I'm not sure which that resembles more - Nazi propaganda, or gay porn. :D
You say it like it's mutually exclusive. :P
You make a good point! :lol:
When I first saw these, I thought them clever parodies... but it seems that they're real. :huh:
Those military issue shirts are so darn uncomfortable.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/859/43680084872_96cd0cc9b9_o.png)
Go Stielers!
I'm a sucker for atmospheric winter pictures. This one's absolutely gorgeous. :wub:
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/34/9c/4f/349c4f9ae7a6b81a723a3faeb84c664c--new-york-winter-in-the-winter.jpg)
Quote from: Syt on July 30, 2018, 09:18:29 AM
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/859/43680084872_96cd0cc9b9_o.png)
The 150AD one was actually not too bad. The 1050 one is truly wacky and seems to have regressed a lot.
The first one is a Ptolemy map. The one for 1154 is probably also a Ptolemey map. The 2nd one is T-O Map. I don't think they were actually used to find yourself around, it's more of symbolic thing. Sailors probably had better maps at the time.
Did Ptolemy really have the proportions of Europe and the Middle East that close?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 03, 2018, 12:31:38 PM
Did Ptolemy really have the proportions of Europe and the Middle East that close?
I'm not certain. The map is a reconstruction from one of his books. No actual map survives. It's fairly accurate for the Mediterranean area, but gets pretty wonky the further out you go. For instance India barely exists and Ceylon is huge. Even the Mediterranean has problems: Greece is bigger than Italy and Sea of Azov almost the size of the Black Sea. Still it is pretty impressive.
It makes sense for the Roman empire at its height to have a reasonable grasp of its geography.
Ptolemy gives latitude and longitude for thousands of places, all the places listed in his book I think. Hence the reconstructed maps are accurate representations of his geographical understanding.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 04, 2018, 01:45:13 AM
Ptolemy gives latitude and longitude for thousands of places, all the places listed in his book I think. Hence the reconstructed maps are accurate representations of his geographical understanding.
Yeah, I think he used a lot of star positions (He also wrote the Almagast). I do wonder where he got the data for all that. It's doubt he trudged through Scotland and or sailed down the coast of Africa.
With all those magical astrologers peering at the stars all the time, the data might have been available to him from those areas.
Street in Macau, a glimpse of the Grand Lisboa Casino in the background:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoBXFvaW0AAd7pY.jpg)
Looks like the start of a Marvel super-villain attack :cool:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoMj3r9VAAAKhbI.jpg)
They use Apple IIe in Heaven? :hmm:
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2018, 01:38:28 AM
Street in Macau, a glimpse of the Grand Lisboa Casino in the background:
...
Showed this to my gaming friends, and we cooked up a whole Cyberpunk book plot in 5 mintues...
I have been to the Grand Lisboa a few times. It has good restaurants.
The UK equivalent to the US soda map:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dbj9vccWsAMDdkl.jpg)
WTF? Scone rhymes with "cone" you ridiculous Brits.
Ireland > Scotland
But when do we tell them that their scones look like our biscuits?
Monty Python (or at least Michael Palin) lean towards the "gone" side of things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts&feature=youtu.be&t=41
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Do5Qf4rX4AAp5Vx.jpg)
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2018, 11:30:04 AM
Monty Python (or at least Michael Palin) lean towards the "gone" side of things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts&feature=youtu.be&t=41
I think he's from the north (as are a lot of great comedians), so that would make sense.
Quote from: Maladict on October 07, 2018, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2018, 11:30:04 AM
Monty Python (or at least Michael Palin) lean towards the "gone" side of things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts&feature=youtu.be&t=41
I think he's from the north (as are a lot of great comedians), so that would make sense.
He's from Sheffield.
Quote from: The Larch on October 07, 2018, 02:58:16 PM
Quote from: Maladict on October 07, 2018, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2018, 11:30:04 AM
Monty Python (or at least Michael Palin) lean towards the "gone" side of things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts&feature=youtu.be&t=41
I think he's from the north (as are a lot of great comedians), so that would make sense.
He's from Sheffield.
I guess he's one of the 25% then.
I'll see him in two weeks, talking about his new book. If there's a Q&A I'll ask about scones :)
Quote from: The Larch on October 07, 2018, 02:58:16 PM
Quote from: Maladict on October 07, 2018, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2018, 11:30:04 AM
Monty Python (or at least Michael Palin) lean towards the "gone" side of things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts&feature=youtu.be&t=41
I think he's from the north (as are a lot of great comedians), so that would make sense.
He's from Sheffield.
Tyr would say that's definitely the South. :P
Quote from: mongers on October 07, 2018, 03:38:27 PM
Quote from: The Larch on October 07, 2018, 02:58:16 PM
Quote from: Maladict on October 07, 2018, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2018, 11:30:04 AM
Monty Python (or at least Michael Palin) lean towards the "gone" side of things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts&feature=youtu.be&t=41
I think he's from the north (as are a lot of great comedians), so that would make sense.
He's from Sheffield.
Tyr would say that's definitely the South. :P
The guys from Map Men already looked into that. :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENeCYwms-Cc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENeCYwms-Cc)
Art by S A Lieske.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpQS5gfVsAA_L65.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpQS6ZsUcAALWSo.jpg)
Awesome art!
The first picture kind of reminded me of your style. :)
England in the 60s. I presume this is what Brexiteers are hoping to go back to?
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ujGzfVgvzdQ/W8W2GN7288I/AAAAAAABoVM/a7elkmgfeW4R4ANIt7PhjKCqfxgYvErLwCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%25280%2529.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xUDLCPVC5D0/W8W2JfJMv_I/AAAAAAABoV4/a09o_TRSb5g5PQKjeDWj91oSZjAxnBpuACLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%25282%2529.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rhk_LvX0gpI/W8W2QWBYiWI/AAAAAAABoXM/40vD-2mJoAMSsDwDmNpMijVXJ6ZxPMuaACLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%25284%2529.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MuSKyMMQ2CM/W8W2humWtkI/AAAAAAABoZA/ZxocSBtuoaIt1ClhbEVaJH_GJ2IL9ZyhgCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%25289%2529.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YxHbYq02ISc/W8W2G-RddQI/AAAAAAABoVY/zHwyTb7xGCAH4v85gka3w1KAKDhycmYqACLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252812%2529.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Hzc7wIELcY8/W8W2HqiKxJI/AAAAAAABoVk/JDy_iIwEuuA6zAp4GrapKXgOZ-5vtu3kQCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252815%2529.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mKaupftbRaU/W8W2IpSE2gI/AAAAAAABoVw/K96xJmSvKcQ4JCZGYvJ0iPgS7H83SdgdgCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252819%2529.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-r_AAXop67Qg/W8W2JgTu7hI/AAAAAAABoV8/gkc6U494_2gd3kwlmgTWHdZakRViDcXMQCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252820%2529.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d00FthyJ5Rk/W8W2J1ApG2I/AAAAAAABoWE/-KlzJtLHNB0tsDCYGyUZClTrRjeS3aO3wCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252822%2529.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YrP0MPXKcm4/W8W2MFB6_NI/AAAAAAABoWk/6RUUoXtDpkozGC9RKhio37ZgtwjLhx9_gCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252830%2529.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-S74zeofu0Jc/W8W2MTk2TiI/AAAAAAABoWo/T5HJjbnJh3k6ekujCqA3EW9EgtA3jeb_QCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252831%2529.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fdoxAwl0DLw/W8W2NeJzSDI/AAAAAAABoWw/c7T7PZKpUE0A24uDYf0UT0PyHAhoFnf5QCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252832%2529.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kUJgN5SlHsg/W8W2NaBSZMI/AAAAAAABoW0/zUvz1t52WqsFvG3-RtuY9UhmvOyJPapSQCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252834%2529.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1jvcIAx03gA/W8W2OBOIg4I/AAAAAAABoW4/WtBsv4_kyGMidB6zlW2m3bvlFQbcDYPMACLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252835%2529.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mA8Y9pER4S4/W8W2OoU6ccI/AAAAAAABoXA/0iw39dBveMckTKjdHGMK_Z-rLiKkEkA3QCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252836%2529.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3-lkiI3YIs8/W8W2OvR88rI/AAAAAAABoW8/b06rd9qCP9kieZGRlPvS9dR4TgWu2cdFwCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252837%2529.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pn8RlVRxP4M/W8W2O2LrnHI/AAAAAAABoXE/S2nadjhNdn86hY_eO_W7SfGf2QwQDnMRwCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252838%2529.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-slUQr8tHd9o/W8W2Q787M6I/AAAAAAABoXQ/FPP8UsWwaI0Dr7VDL3MMyDN4xOVo0aIxACLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252840%2529.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nkeaQEgBFew/W8W2SK2qZLI/AAAAAAABoXc/SARya8SCd-kZ8PVtNSZoWTJQaJJ8UHPbgCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252844%2529.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-11QI_2FXMG4/W8W2SUMjwRI/AAAAAAABoXg/dKrQPGf8Q_4gMGycc_Z7mP4iUDI2fhvCACLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252845%2529.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_hXRjTZ_G1I/W8W2UMcTJ-I/AAAAAAABoXo/Z5K7Eurd0nU_1u-MTcjCumzH6CxAft0sgCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252847%2529.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_pFj-6ve71k/W8W2UTXB94I/AAAAAAABoXw/WuiUo9mpJMAVO7LHKDzCRhVcetRxaP2PQCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252849%2529.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-D5B6R3luIDQ/W8W2V39QzUI/AAAAAAABoX0/RG0c8-9vj_UYq7tLN8CL-BW-STfdRbVygCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252850%2529.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-m4rl-UU64LY/W8W2WIqobTI/AAAAAAABoX4/Nk68lyldv2077ENKPsw8ZtXvp9iPfxvLgCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252851%2529.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-q1Cznmqrw_E/W8W2WMMBMEI/AAAAAAABoX8/Nyen4Lvt8v0mjqGehFz-_Qfc6Oj0JhsvgCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252852%2529.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4ajjQUDlbdo/W8W2YAn5nWI/AAAAAAABoYM/GlPty8B7IpsziDZANRn-Q75ixiFbk8m1wCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252855%2529.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GMsg8QmPmso/W8W2a3kkXEI/AAAAAAABoYQ/CKB72fELnw4inqrZzGceLCnfferrue_9ACLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252856%2529.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gevb6OWfCPc/W8W2bjXN-kI/AAAAAAABoYU/8Z20qyuFFDQfz92O9GJo5IblheiH5RbogCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252859%2529.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-S5cvDG5LYD4/W8W2dBRIkkI/AAAAAAABoYg/9eldZFSgnW81CHtc3NPS-9dzPj97cahZwCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252860%2529.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/--USNokdgzsc/W8W2g5lg0AI/AAAAAAABoY8/ZKOK3-zBB8Q8-vvqPttm58Es0QIabSiWgCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252864%2529.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bSuj8Nudo1I/W8W2g1xq1CI/AAAAAAABoY0/Ew5sut-Pw94geq-sPX5d4okt9TkT8WMXQCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252865%2529.jpg)
Well those are some of the most British things I have ever seen, especially all the sheep.
Loved the pic of the people fishing in the rain.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 16, 2018, 12:39:09 PM
Loved the pic of the people fishing in the rain.
That one and the Star Trek golfers.
Quote from: Valmy on October 16, 2018, 12:35:03 PM
Well those are some of the most British things I have ever seen, especially all the sheep.
It should actually be set to Beethoven's 6th Symphony "Pastorale", first movement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5znGlEMi7I
All those little ration cards. :)
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 16, 2018, 12:41:45 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 16, 2018, 12:39:09 PM
Loved the pic of the people fishing in the rain.
That one and the Star Trek golfers.
Luckily the corpse of the one with the red shirt is not in the frame :cool:
Ah, the 70s.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqvoSjZW4AA_NEG.jpg)
Quote(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d00FthyJ5Rk/W8W2J1ApG2I/AAAAAAABoWE/-KlzJtLHNB0tsDCYGyUZClTrRjeS3aO3wCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252822%2529.jpg)
I am sure Tyr shed a tear :cry:
I didn't get a mention in the magazine when I joined Languish. :(
Quote from: Syt on October 16, 2018, 12:31:10 PM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kUJgN5SlHsg/W8W2NaBSZMI/AAAAAAABoW0/zUvz1t52WqsFvG3-RtuY9UhmvOyJPapSQCLcBGAs/s1600/England%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1960s%2B%252834%2529.jpg)
British Star Trek was weird.
*edit* Dammit, Yi beat me to it.
:nelson: Can't get anywhere running on Portagee time.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 30, 2018, 01:39:17 PM
:nelson: Can't get anywhere running on Portagee time.
:lol:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dq_EWT1XgAAtzoL.jpg)
True :D
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fs6DJaYY.jpg&hash=c036ca9936552aa2a4858f68d2f942b78c22290a)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Drbo6EgXgAEyybg.jpg)
Meanwhile, in Little Rock, Arkansas.
https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/white-nationalist-rally-in-arkansas-idUSRTS25O4R
A handful members of the "National Socialist Movement" hold a rally.
(https://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20181112&t=2&i=1324774065&w=780&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=2018-11-12T185744Z_10615_MRPRC1B2E51C720_RTRMADP_0_USA-PROTESTS)
(https://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20181112&t=2&i=1324774067&w=780&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=2018-11-12T185744Z_10615_MRPRC1CB0D816F0_RTRMADP_0_USA-PROTESTS)
(https://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20181112&t=2&i=1324774068&w=780&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=2018-11-12T185744Z_10615_MRPRC1E17333100_RTRMADP_0_USA-PROTESTS)
(https://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20181112&t=2&i=1324774052&w=780&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=2018-11-12T185744Z_10615_MRPRC115688BCA0_RTRMADP_0_USA-PROTESTS)
(https://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20181112&t=2&i=1324774064&w=780&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=2018-11-12T185744Z_10615_MRPRC1B2555FE10_RTRMADP_0_USA-PROTESTS)
(https://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20181112&t=2&i=1324774055&w=780&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=2018-11-12T185744Z_10615_MRPRC14F18701A0_RTRMADP_0_USA-PROTESTS)
(https://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20181112&t=2&i=1324774066&w=780&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=2018-11-12T185744Z_10615_MRPRC1C7C6E4960_RTRMADP_0_USA-PROTESTS)
(https://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20181112&t=2&i=1324774062&w=780&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=2018-11-12T185744Z_10615_MRPRC16A5C0FD00_RTRMADP_0_USA-PROTESTS)
What is "strmixin"?
It's "strength", spelled in futhark runes.
It's funny, because the futhark has a rune for the th sound, but he used t and h instead. :D
So you're a runic....spelling nazi?
Jesus. No girls allowed?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 17, 2018, 02:12:55 AM
So you're a runic....spelling nazi?
Nah, just something I'm mildly familiar with. There's several variants of runic alphabets from different times and geographic locations, but there's a few versions that are popular today with people into Norse stuff (of which, believe it or not, there are a few in the heavy metal scene :P ).
Thing is, even if you're just a viking/Germanic fanboi without any Nazi pretensions, using runes immediately puts you in that corner, because this has been strongly co-opted by Nazis and Nazi fanbois - most prominently the sowulo rune for S, modified for the SS:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/02/50/b20250d605d8655d840f58346806af0d.png)
and the othila for "O", also standing for "inherited land":
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Oyvh3K-6Jvk%2FT095h_2kcxI%2FAAAAAAAAAIQ%2FFYyg8hG4RdE%2Fs1600%2FOthila.jpg&hash=44a09f1cfb8c49812e209a0a3bc3968cccad24b4)
Quote from: Syt on November 17, 2018, 01:59:47 AM
It's "strength", spelled in futhark runes.
It's funny, because the futhark has a rune for the th sound, but he used t and h instead. :D
Nothing more embarrassing than making a runic spelling boo-boo in the Nazi tattoo on your head. :(
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsdtsakXoAM6USc.jpg)
Why do I have a suspicion that the "thrill" in question is dining at Dolly's Bar and Grill? :lol:
But ... they're not serving minors!
Quote from: Syt on November 20, 2018, 03:13:43 PM
But ... they're not serving minors!
Yes, but if you play it cool, they'll think you are over 18. :showoff:
Btw, anyone else remember the pen pal sections in youth magazines like the one advertised on this cover? :D
Quote from: Malthus on November 20, 2018, 03:06:03 PM
Why do I have a suspicion that the "thrill" in question is dining at Dolly's Bar and Grill? :lol:
I'm shocked that you fail to see the thrill of a place that doesn't serve minors. :rolleyes:
Quote from: The Brain on November 20, 2018, 03:39:25 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 20, 2018, 03:06:03 PM
Why do I have a suspicion that the "thrill" in question is dining at Dolly's Bar and Grill? :lol:
I'm shocked that you fail to see the thrill of a place that doesn't serve minors. :rolleyes:
I wouldn't want such a thrill.
Even if only adults are served, eating people is wrong.
You Canadians can be such stuffed shirts at times :P
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ds1Y-6KWoAA7zYN.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ds1Y-6LW0AIrFjJ.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ds1Y-6KWoAEDUbS.jpg)
:unsure:
Man Satan is really pounding that biclops turtle.
Quote from: Syt on November 17, 2018, 02:53:28 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 17, 2018, 02:12:55 AM
So you're a runic....spelling nazi?
Nah, just something I'm mildly familiar with. There's several variants of runic alphabets from different times and geographic locations, but there's a few versions that are popular today with people into Norse stuff (of which, believe it or not, there are a few in the heavy metal scene :P ).
Thing is, even if you're just a viking/Germanic fanboi without any Nazi pretensions, using runes immediately puts you in that corner, because this has been strongly co-opted by Nazis and Nazi fanbois - most prominently the sowulo rune for S, modified for the SS:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/02/50/b20250d605d8655d840f58346806af0d.png)
and the othila for "O", also standing for "inherited land":
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Oyvh3K-6Jvk%2FT095h_2kcxI%2FAAAAAAAAAIQ%2FFYyg8hG4RdE%2Fs1600%2FOthila.jpg&hash=44a09f1cfb8c49812e209a0a3bc3968cccad24b4)
A friend of mine, an ardent socialist, has a ruinic tattoo....
And had a bunch of nazis absolutely go off it at him for using something that belongs to them :(
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtHiX1qXoAEk-KE.jpg)
I keep the light on.
Lesbians are weird.
A lesbian?! Oh no.
:(
A lesbian with English teeth. :(
Pictures of Communist era Poland (Late 70s & early 80s, including martial law and Solidarnosc stuff):
https://www.facebook.com/pg/zyciecodziennewprl/photos/?tab=album&album_id=2207633119306909&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARBI2F3VPIu1JKUkZc4Xkl8Yh_3sHzfmrqEAVeVsVyeoYM4dobXRiZ7jb3urx_E1emE1gqP45bW7c4RkYRPNzvVB-LxBjhBk86pCjOcggrgZ5wQC6_nmYUMu0EDgs5lmXOtV-r-91dl0dXMQ4O8vLw2PiVsAL610LGBmIMaahdzqGnTV8gpMRLTW9QY-z_JTghzGoQeifij0wsOEjDZAMxd8jM5A0nRzCNYzmmBkDIC9hZHsTKz11SQAaB0YG9R6N_HULvwj9GrdmrzavkcVstxrWWrDwFb1MmezimPORF7gTiLof446b3DM2mC2HJM&__tn__=-UC-R (https://www.facebook.com/pg/zyciecodziennewprl/photos/?tab=album&album_id=2207633119306909&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARBI2F3VPIu1JKUkZc4Xkl8Yh_3sHzfmrqEAVeVsVyeoYM4dobXRiZ7jb3urx_E1emE1gqP45bW7c4RkYRPNzvVB-LxBjhBk86pCjOcggrgZ5wQC6_nmYUMu0EDgs5lmXOtV-r-91dl0dXMQ4O8vLw2PiVsAL610LGBmIMaahdzqGnTV8gpMRLTW9QY-z_JTghzGoQeifij0wsOEjDZAMxd8jM5A0nRzCNYzmmBkDIC9hZHsTKz11SQAaB0YG9R6N_HULvwj9GrdmrzavkcVstxrWWrDwFb1MmezimPORF7gTiLof446b3DM2mC2HJM&__tn__=-UC-R)
Quote from: Syt on November 20, 2018, 03:32:06 PM
Btw, anyone else remember the pen pal sections in youth magazines like the one advertised on this cover? :D
Heh, yeah I remember that! Haven't thought of that in many years until you mentioned it.
Soviet cigarettes were scary.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DthOFvgWsAAFXNS.jpg)
Well, it's not misleading - like any artillery, they will kill you. :lol:
A myth propagated by Big Nicotine Gum. :smoke:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtrmnEZWsBAJZDw.jpg)
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/291/420/65c.jpg)
What's the problem? Is her man a racist?
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 06, 2018, 04:12:32 AM
What's the problem? Is her man a racist?
Sexual healing in the street is frowned upon regardless of race.
Love the expression on the blonde dude in the background. :lol:
The old main library in Cincinnati:
https://themindcircle.com/the-old-cincinnati-library-demolition-1874-1955/
QuoteCompleted in 1874, originally intended to be an opera house before the project went bankrupt, the modestly-sized building did not do justice to to the magnitude and beauty of the interior designed by architect J.W. McLaughlin
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-15.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-10.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-1.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-2.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-3.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-4.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-5.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-6.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-7.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-8.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-9.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-11.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-12.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-13.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-14.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-16.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-17.jpg)
(https://cdn.themindcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/old-cincinnati-library-18.jpg)
Very cool pics. :)
Some PR ads:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuUVWo2WoAEGQVu.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuUWQ2TWkAAtzYr.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuUW3PGX4AI-Q1-.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuUZEgiWwAELbik.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuUZ5-5W0AESUFL.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuUa1KlW0AEx5jM.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuUbHJPW4AIpeko.jpg)
And a special one for Tyr (though I believe RH actually lived this ... :hmm: ):
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuUYSprX4AUTKOS.jpg)
Quote from: Syt on December 14, 2018, 05:42:14 AM
And a special one for Tyr (though I believe RH actually lived this ... :hmm: ):
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuUYSprX4AUTKOS.jpg)
This is still common practice in Australia :outback: (mining apprenticeships, I mean, not girls refusing to go out with men who weren't miners.) A number of people I met at the mines had started an apprenticeship program at fifteen.
It's actually probably a great thing for those boys with a "fuck school" attitude. Better than the streets/crime anyway.
It is still quite possible in Alberta to go out with little formal education and start working on the oil rigs and make good money.
But not at 15 years old... that part just boggles my mind.
The guy with the white mask/hood in the classroom concerns me a bit.
After being "asked to leave" by boarding school I got a job at one of the colleries in my local town. Some time later my best friend started as an undergraduate at Durham university. I started going over there at weekends during term time. The advert was correct, I was a hit with the girls :cool:
Happy times, physical work during the week and the university at weekends :cool:
I love this thread btw Syt; some good stuff here.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 14, 2018, 02:11:59 PM
After being "asked to leave" by boarding school I got a job at one of the colleries in my local town. Some time later my best friend started as an undergraduate at Durham university. I started going over there at weekends during term time. The advert was correct, I was a hit with the girls :cool:
Happy times, physical work during the week and the university at weekends :cool:
That's why the ad made me think of you. :)
Tricky was a hooligan! :o
Just youthful high spirits :blush:
Oh there is no story as such; just standard late teen stuff involving parties and girls. I was unfortunate in that I didn't go to boarding school till i was 15 (when it became a necessity due to my father's posting), so I was used to my freedom by then. While I was at the mine I studied and passed the necessary A-levels (public exams at 18) to get on and went back to the old school for a reference for university. My former nemesis, the senior housemaster, was very decent about it and gave me an excellent reference...which did make me feel a bit guilty for being such a pain in the ass :lol:
Tricky was a playah! :o
Said it before, will say it again - I love me some nice winter mood images.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DudBp0PXgAAwBbX.jpg)
Throwback! The Coke vending machine at Brussels airport in 2008, when we had our Languish meet.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuoCOXGX4AA0V1O.jpg)
Has it been 10 years already? Damn...
:(
Is that cherub supposed to be peeing into the coke bottle? :wacko:
It's the famous Manneken Pis, a symbol of Brussels. They dress him up for holidays.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manneken_Pis
Truth? Fiction? These days I can't tell anymore. :P
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dxf36U8WwAAkG1C.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dxf4NbqWsAALDpX.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dxf4GZkXcAAvLvc.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dxf4aP2WwAAZ8DU.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dxf4ycVW0AAdvSo.jpg)
The Lincoln Leglock! :lol:
Interesting to see from a time when being hairy was a positive.
Forza Horizon 4, taking place in the UK, includes plenty iconic British cars and some that are ... quirkier.
Like the Reliant Robin:
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LrX5bexTDfI/XErGqaR409I/AAAAAAADbGQ/yFY2PgCYHeY0nQkCIZ9Dj0hEu8VnGM4QQCLcBGAs/s640/reliant-robin-1.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NWIrIPB3qkk/XErGu0dbJUI/AAAAAAADbHQ/Cb7P2LDbKnAAVvniL9SN7vnC8asmkjphQCLcBGAs/s640/reliant-robin-5.jpg)
Or the Peel P50:
(https://autoweek.com/sites/default/files/styles/gen-932-524/public/p-1_7.jpg)
(https://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2009/12/10/15/34/1965_peel_p50-pic-3637687411906781139-1600x1200.jpeg)
Or the Peel Trident:
(https://www.lanemotormuseum.org/images/cars/peel_trident_1965_web/peel_trident_1965_web1.jpg)
(https://www.totallycars.club/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/cars-in-the-s-history-pictures-facts-amp-more-1526061231pc4l8.jpg)
Or the Morgan 3 Wheeler ... from 2014:
(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/494-940x627.jpg)
(https://res.cloudinary.com/carsguide/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy,q_auto,t_default/v1/editorial/morgan-3-wheeler-2015-%281%29.jpg)
It has plenty other oddballs, like a line of James Bond cars (including a Citroen 2CV), or the Mercedes Unimog 2 ton truck (I remember that one from military service). Or the GMC van from the A-Team. Or the Warthog from Halo. Or the VW Type 2 (hippie bus). Or the BMW Isetta (mine has a Kinder surprise egg paint job). There's over 500 cars in the game, all lovingly modeled in stunning detail, and new ones added regularly.
It's an arcade driver, right? Not a simulation?
Quote from: The Brain on January 28, 2019, 05:10:33 AM
It's an arcade driver, right? Not a simulation?
Arcade, yes. Which is why I got into it. I tried Project Cars 2, and gave up. :D
Also. 1970s Hong Kong around Luard and Lockhart road in WangChai.
https://www.vintag.es/2019/01/1970s-wanchai-bars.html
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mDMkE7Wn9BQ/XEk-V4XlYCI/AAAAAAABxXo/xCciJA8w_zgmX3vOklmGSQwllYD1m3HfwCLcBGAs/s640/1970s%2BWanchai%2BBars%2B%25282%2529.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hD6pnRaEync/XEk-W9o4qGI/AAAAAAABxX0/ilzf-I_125UM047azxf9TCp6Dv1-EygmwCLcBGAs/s640/1970s%2BWanchai%2BBars%2B%25283%2529.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ysMzbpaUvmY/XEk-XB0SFRI/AAAAAAABxX8/Yvoa-rKwgigFZre-t2FCLQSvRfOOksB0gCLcBGAs/s640/1970s%2BWanchai%2BBars%2B%25285%2529.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lntBdpXORqk/XEk-XqHKEwI/AAAAAAABxYA/2JhxhKL1njs6holo5UTwswyL7MvkWGZCgCLcBGAs/s1600/1970s%2BWanchai%2BBars%2B%25286%2529.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NpR-Lv4W1Rc/XEk-YIziIDI/AAAAAAABxYI/2sAXB5zJzcQ1glfhRV-jLksH1-_i_ONZwCLcBGAs/s640/1970s%2BWanchai%2BBars%2B%25288%2529.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HlJsBZ986gg/XEk-Yhju83I/AAAAAAABxYM/ennSOFYMFfA5BwAuP1vxD-ih3DAQ8h3dgCLcBGAs/s640/1970s%2BWanchai%2BBars%2B%25289%2529.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RfNLyVUI1ms/XEk-UZNIzWI/AAAAAAABxXY/jWqy7S1P4YUgRa0GUd59ch-T97zIWxgbQCLcBGAs/s640/1970s%2BWanchai%2BBars%2B%252816%2529.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nWrwGvb2c5M/XEk-Ubx1YvI/AAAAAAABxXc/hbbEAxCYkO8GF0HzCwiWZdkP73bEgQMEACLcBGAs/s640/1970s%2BWanchai%2BBars%2B%252817%2529.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-G00xGMSwX-w/XEk-Uvd1-6I/AAAAAAABxXg/GnW9eNDH1gQVZTrSV0PfG7HtYWLUDVCBACLcBGAs/s640/1970s%2BWanchai%2BBars%2B%252818%2529.jpg)
Quote from: Syt on January 28, 2019, 05:07:50 AM
Forza Horizon 4, taking place in the UK, includes plenty iconic British cars and some that are ... quirkier.
Like the Reliant Robin:
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LrX5bexTDfI/XErGqaR409I/AAAAAAADbGQ/yFY2PgCYHeY0nQkCIZ9Dj0hEu8VnGM4QQCLcBGAs/s640/reliant-robin-1.jpg)
Mr. Bean's rival car! :lol:
This Buddhist festival in Thailand has a bit of a Riefenstahlian tinge. :P
(https://i.postimg.cc/NjjZnsBL/laternenzeremonie.jpg)
Quote from: Syt on February 25, 2019, 09:21:30 AM
This Buddhist festival in Thailand has a bit of a Riefenstahlian tinge. :P
(https://i.postimg.cc/NjjZnsBL/laternenzeremonie.jpg)
Plus a touch of Ancient Aliens. :lol:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D89f_beX4AAJ2lA?format=jpg&name=medium)
Management centre of the USSR North-Western Integrated Power Grid, Riga, pictured in the book Soviet Latvia, 1985
is the person in the middle asleep?
Quote from: Syt on January 28, 2019, 07:58:58 AM
Also. 1970s Hong Kong around Luard and Lockhart road in WangChai.
https://www.vintag.es/2019/k-Uvd1-6I/AAAAAAABxXg/GnW9eNDH1gQVZTrSV0PfG7HtYWLUDVCBACLcBGAs/s640/1970s%2BWanchai%2BBars%2B%252818%2529.jpg[/img]
Reminds me of Kawasaki Warehouse. An absolutely awesome arcade:
https://randomwire.com/kowloon-walled-city-rebuilt-in-japan/
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/e34bde719a74b589989e5d31e60cc169/tumblr_ptiwu1V9U81sndzdgo1_1280.jpg)
Post House Hotel hall, Heathrow Airport, 1968
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC4etjjX4AECIm4?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC4et4dWkAAgfSL?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC4euMOWkAADJ1f?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC4euh6X4AELi2x?format=jpg&name=900x900)
I notice a pattern.
"Don't wear a red blouse in the swamp"? :P
North England in the 60s and 70s.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDx-bMdWwAEjHBA?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDx_KOVW4AAwJma?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDyAIA_XYAA2iBg?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDyBTmaXsAAhco_?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDyCxoYWsAI7Kx-?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDyDMrPXsAEV1vU?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDyDmzfXkAEnOnO?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDyEgOGX4AAtTeK?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDygb-KXYAAtFAC?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDyhPDIXkAAmpQv?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDyiaqMX4AECPeP?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDyij8rXsAEO8qJ?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDyjCUZWsAId0nh?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDyjX54W4AAvXdO?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDyjhjrW4AMGCX3?format=jpg&name=small)
Tyr's ideal society. :)
Quote from: The Brain on September 06, 2019, 01:13:50 PM
Tyr's ideal society. :)
When people mined coal like God intended!
The homes indeed look 30-40 years younger compared to today.
So... You mean it's gone down hill from that dystopic nightmare?
Quote from: Threviel on September 07, 2019, 12:08:11 PM
So... You mean it's gone down hill from that dystopic nightmare?
No, everything is much better except the houses, which are the same, only 40 years older.
Children in advertising.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kRq5wLibwaw/XXiQcAg1ZbI/AAAAAAADn84/a9JUH-bjJvcg0Ik4x7RT2ciwHVPtPiJ3QCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/creepy-kid-ads-4.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ve-dBx2LioA/XXiQccOHGMI/AAAAAAADn88/NSn3KsxNQzYodBoFBre8zH0YwkYFnTzGQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/creepy-kid-ads-5.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oh6FxVCI6ro/XXiQckZCpAI/AAAAAAADn9A/-vENCe35liUhAz5u2JR_1VZ9W3SeaX0YwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/creepy-kid-ads-6.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Vyu6U6oI_hI/XXiQdLKPhxI/AAAAAAADn9E/WCC0pVLWARcEGH5oHAyMvyxlWyI9FpWPQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/creepy-kid-ads-7.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KM5-0jgKPRI/XXiQdq1rsaI/AAAAAAADn9M/T110mAVOJismBmpKWGlMJ-210L1ewNvowCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/creepy-kid-ads-9.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JqOdp6qk8fM/XXiQTqLNtGI/AAAAAAADn7g/jRbkQA7fBOI7TFdDwj377BtNnakwce2dQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/creepy-kid-ads-10.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pGaWvhRb9lk/XXiQU8KoegI/AAAAAAADn7o/LFo-kz_DxPgmMQ8CiBD5gO4R_vuEkA4_QCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/creepy-kid-ads-12.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ViAEJlz4ilA/XXiQU-34HvI/AAAAAAADn7k/h2eySoAoP540lgHRiQybtJ-V3BafCVZewCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/creepy-kid-ads-13.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EMaUg0XjZCw/XXiQXAldpjI/AAAAAAADn8E/MP-h-mqUhAstSQWPhJMX2kXzUvtemAxxwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/creepy-kid-ads-19.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KaFGMdXoc-4/XXiQXWKrlHI/AAAAAAADn8I/FxN3rs2oP98YOJyUjmoFe0Ob9_upo-bKwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/creepy-kid-ads-20.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pBVCNQnn5To/XXiQY4XXQnI/AAAAAAADn8Y/NFJ_vS-mJdgp8P3lsYqpi3hKnGLNg9NAACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/creepy-kid-ads-24.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-w3mE7H4N5KQ/XXiQascyWiI/AAAAAAADn8k/ldFUScqyGOsSoTRKXDjOgHZf1e9x6Yu_QCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/creepy-kid-ads-27.jpg)
I had no idea pork and beans could turn your son into a serial killer. :ph34r:
The pork and beans one is by far the most creepy. :ph34r:
The lack of trees in dystopian England is making me very, very uneasy.
Quote from: Valmy on October 04, 2019, 12:13:39 PM
I had no idea pork and beans could turn your son into a serial killer. :ph34r:
Have you been feeding it to your kids? :mad:
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 04, 2019, 01:50:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 04, 2019, 12:13:39 PM
I had no idea pork and beans could turn your son into a serial killer. :ph34r:
Have you been feeding it to your kids? :mad:
Judging by the ad - the kid pictured probably ate all the others. :D
(https://wearethemutantsdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/watm-lindsey-1.jpg)
(https://wearethemutantsdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/watm-lindsey-2.jpg)
(https://wearethemutantsdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/watm-lindsey-3.jpg)
(https://wearethemutantsdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/watm-lindsey-4.jpg)
(https://wearethemutantsdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/watm-lindsey-5.jpg)
(https://wearethemutantsdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/watm-lindsey-6.jpg)
(https://wearethemutantsdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/watm-lindsey-7.jpg)
(https://wearethemutantsdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/watm-lindsey-8.jpg)
Flying up beneath the gal in the blue skirt is a different kind of rapture.
Accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior will make your tits very, very perky.
I like how no matter what the fuck is going on in the world it always means the end is near.
It's closer than ever I think.
It'll probably happen just before we harness fusion power. :(
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Sophia_Alekseyevna%2C_by_Ilya_Repin.jpg)
Portrait of Grand Duchess Sophia Alekseyevna at the Novodevichy Convent
HOTT
I love that picture of Sophia, so pissed off. Her supporters are shown hanging outside the window :ph34r:
Russian stuff is always so hardcore.
I like the scared kid in the background :lol:
Would not hit.
How did I miss "THE GREAT SNATCH" before now?
Quote from: PDH on May 28, 2020, 03:40:11 PM
How did I miss "THE GREAT SNATCH" before now?
Distracted by the perky tits, you missed the great snatch? :P
From reddit, rain over Vienna a short while ago.
(https://i.redd.it/0s4vjbuh9q151.jpg)
Huh. I have been to Vienna before I guess it didn't register how short all the buildings are.
We have a few high rises, but not too many. Most would be obscured by rain in the above picture.
(https://www.vienna-airporttaxi.at/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Aussichtspunkte-in-Wien.jpg)
At the Danube, most buildings in the center are part of a business park near the UN (not visible).
(https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2016/07/20/23/02/vienna-1531524_960_720.jpg)
Wienerberg City (office spaces)
(https://www.falstaff.at/fileadmin/_processed_/1/b/csm_Aussicht_c-RobertJahns-Freiluft-2640_dd32119f48.jpg)
And another smattering of tall buildings
Quote from: Syt link=/img] northern England
Hey, I notice vaux on a sign above a pub. Maybe this actually is the true north?
If you want to read a horror story about post thatcher Britain vaux makes for very sad reading.
And yes. A society where the working class remains intact and actually cares about working to better their situation is a great thing.
(just felt like being super late on replies)
Church of the Redeemer in Toronto, 1870s vs today:
(https://preview.redd.it/8j7jr3eun4551.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9055e9f3c55be0c1de8ef79e112180f2158aacca)
A Toronto pic! 😀
My favorite Toronto landmark is a small plaque on the Commerce Court North building. It's on the side, and details that the place was the site of the first Wesleyan Methodist Church, a bare log cabin. Later demolished to make way for what became a bank building - with the most beautiful gold mosaic interior.
The plaque is in an alley, and there is often a homeless person sleeping on a warm air grate nearby.
Somehow, the transition seems very fitting for my city - I love the place, but still: the transition from simple log cabin, to lavish bank HQ, with accompanying dire poverty, seems to symbolize much about the place.
Quote from: Syt on June 16, 2020, 10:12:29 AM
Church of the Redeemer in Toronto, 1870s vs today:
(https://preview.redd.it/8j7jr3eun4551.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9055e9f3c55be0c1de8ef79e112180f2158aacca)
And it will probably still be there after everything else in the picture has gone.
Here's another one from Trawndo:
(https://i.redd.it/gyqm85moa2651.jpg)
The last two pictures were from this subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/OldPhotosInRealLife/
Lincoln Memorial, 1917.
(https://i.redd.it/ukjmwyue2a851.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfKPLs5XYAYexkN?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfKQBa-WsAAanMx?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfKQTJQXYAIG5TX?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://i.redd.it/jakcwbq5lbk51.jpg)
Kim Il-Sung visits a family in East Germany in 1984.
Two thoughts looking at the image:
1. I'd bet a Stasi officer made sure there was no "problematic" book on that shelf.
2. The bottle of schnaps on the table. On old family photos, whenever there's a festive-ish event there would always be a clear bottle on the table, to the point me and my sisters were joking about it. Funnily, it's also a frequent accessory in media from the 70s/early 80s, especially if it's in the lower middle class to working class milieu, and more often in the North than in the South. :D
I find pictures from the days before the area around St. Stephen's Cathedral was turned into a pedestrian area in the 70s quite interesting/depressing.
Bust stop in front of the cathedral in the 50s:
(https://www.zeitenspruenge.at/images/medium/1010%20Stephansplatz%20Busstation_1.jpg)
A look down Kärntner Straße:
(https://wiener-geschichten.at/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/K%C3%A4rntner-Stra%C3%9Fe-1953.jpg)
Ca. 1970s?
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/aa/a6/06/aaa606cf1671a2d198ac71efbc8e6d55.jpg)
Am Graben, which branches off St. Stephen's with its Plague Column from 1679.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9f/2b/44/9f2b446a222fbe3a04d612024ed6a5d3.jpg)
Of course the usual complaint was made at the time that it would kill the Inner City, driving away all shops and businesses. This was compensated in part by putting a subway intersection right there. If anything, the Inner City has since increased in value and making it a major tourist draw with all that entails (older, smaller businesses unable to pay higher rents being replaced with international chains, for example).
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2020, 02:29:41 AM
Of course the usual complaint was made at the time that it would kill the Inner City, driving away all shops and businesses. This was compensated in part by putting a subway intersection right there. If anything, the Inner City has since increased in value and making it a major tourist draw with all that entails (older, smaller businesses unable to pay higher rents being replaced with international chains, for example).
This is something that comes up with saving the high street all the time. Whenever ther's a plan to pedestrianise an area the strongest opposition comes from shops and businesses in the area because their customers won't be there, they'll have to shut down etc. But, in the UK at least, there's loads of evidence that it actually increases revenue for local businesses. People spend more time in the area and spend more money in more shops than if it's all cars.
Not that anyone involved actually believes that, so they still oppose pedestrianisation :(
A few years ago, Vienna's main high street, Mariahilfer Straße marking the boundary between 6th and 7th district, was largely converted into part pedestrian and part what we call "Begegnungszone" (primarily pedestrians, but cars and bikes are permitted at walking speed). There was massive resistance against it and has since been embraced (except for a justified criticism that some additional greenery would have been nice). In fact, in several districts there have been calls since then from citizens and shop owners for more such mixed use areas (with one implemented near me in a short connecting street, and another, larger, in a gentrified shopping street in the 7th which connects to Mariahilfer).
Most European cities have had their inner core damaged in the 50s and 60s. Cars are now being banished again but mostly in the larger, wealthier cities.
In smaller, more peripheral towns a main square full of parked cars is still a common sight, unfortunately.
My town reopened its canal ring earlier this year, after it was partly filled in to make space for a motorway in the early sixties.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3c/5b/8d/3c5b8d1b6e11a38f0d20fd23f6c1a224.jpg)
(https://mk0denuklv1c43u9ykp.kinstacdn.com/app/uploads/2019/01/Tunnelbak.jpg)
(https://images0.persgroep.net/rcs/NAL0PSewdDNjrHjvEi1Oi12IxSY/diocontent/175970504/_fitwidth/1240?appId=93a17a8fd81db0de025c8abd1cca1279&quality=0.9&desiredformat=webp)
Decline :(
At least the cars are being banished now.
Yes perhaps nowadays essential shops and services can be obtained outside of city centres, so whoever enjoys packed on top of each other like cattle can do so there, while the rest of the world drives around in cars :P
Quote from: Tamas on October 06, 2020, 04:59:19 AM
Yes perhaps nowadays essential shops and services can be obtained outside of city centres, so whoever enjoys packed on top of each other like cattle can do so there, while the rest of the world drives around in cars :P
:D
Quote from: Tamas on October 06, 2020, 04:59:19 AM
Yes perhaps nowadays essential shops and services can be obtained outside of city centres, so whoever enjoys packed on top of each other like cattle can do so there, while the rest of the world drives around in cars :P
:P
Ban cars :ultra:
(That is probably my most radical, impossible but sincerely held opinion :lol:)
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 06, 2020, 05:05:16 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 06, 2020, 04:59:19 AM
Yes perhaps nowadays essential shops and services can be obtained outside of city centres, so whoever enjoys packed on top of each other like cattle can do so there, while the rest of the world drives around in cars :P
:P
Ban cars :ultra:
(That is probably my most radical, impossible but sincerely held opinion :lol:)
And do what, walk? It isn't like public infrastructure projects can happen over night. *cough* Crossrail *cough*
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 05:18:33 AM
And do what, walk? It isn't like public infrastructure projects can happen over night. *cough* Crossrail *cough*
Public transport, biking, walking. If you want to work in a city - live in the city or somewhere accessible by public transport. If you have loads of staff who want to live in the countryside - go remote or move out of the city.
I also think public infrastructure would happen quicker if there was a desperate, crippling need for it :lol: But bring back trams, more buses, reverse the Beeching cuts.
But on Syt's picture - it is something I love in watching old British movies. The one I always remember is Theatre of Blood in 70s London because they drive everywhere, park anywhere in central London and even in the street scenes there's never really any congestion. It's very alien/disconcerting once you notice :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 06, 2020, 05:23:51 AM
Public transport, biking, walking. If you want to work in a city - live in the city or somewhere accessible by public transport. If you have loads of staff who want to live in the countryside - go remote or move out of the city.
I also think public infrastructure would happen quicker if there was a desperate, crippling need for it :lol: But bring back trams, more buses, reverse the Beeching cuts.
And what happens to all of the people who don't live in the city? What happens to larger countries? ;)
Quote from: Tamas on October 06, 2020, 04:59:19 AM
Yes perhaps nowadays essential shops and services can be obtained outside of city centres, so whoever enjoys packed on top of each other like cattle can do so there, while the rest of the world drives around in cars :P
:huh:
I know only few people who live in Vienna and who have a car. Even fewer of them use their car on a regular basis. Vienna has a bunch of subcenters (more often than not arranged around open air markets), so unless you're on the outer periphery where population density is more like a small town or village, it's rare to not have your essentials within walking distance; I mean groceries are quite ubiquitous, for one. Of major chains Billa and Spar alone I have well over a dozen within 15 minutes walking distance.
Playing sardines-in-a-box on a train or subway is no way to live, is all I am saying.
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 05:31:39 AM
And what happens to all of the people who don't live in the city? What happens to larger countries? ;)
Live in the country/in a town - there'll be public transport, bikes, walking and, as Syt says, they'll need to have all the shops/cultural things/cafes etc that you need :)
Towns and cities and countryside have spent most of their time not dealing with cars. It's why the landscape is the way it is with this little mini-dense places for buying and selling stuff. Cars are the innovative thing.
I half-seriously think we will look back at everyone owning an internal combustion engine as barbaric. I think it's the thing within a few generations we will not be able to understand of the past both for the damage it did to our shared spaces, like Syt's pictures, and the environment.
Edit:
Quote
Playing sardines-in-a-box on a train or subway is no way to live, is all I am saying.
Obviously we'd need a lot more public transport (trams! trams! trams!) - or cycling and walking which people would be more willing to do without cars (the dream = pavement, cycle lane, bus lane, trams :wub:).
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 06, 2020, 05:44:32 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 05:31:39 AM
And what happens to all of the people who don't live in the city? What happens to larger countries? ;)
Live in the country/in a town - there'll be public transport, bikes, walking and, as Syt says, they'll need to have all the shops/cultural things/cafes etc that you need :)
Towns and cities and countryside have spent most of their time not dealing with cars. It's why the landscape is the way it is with this little mini-dense places for buying and selling stuff. Cars are the innovative thing.
I half-seriously think we will look back at everyone owning an internal combustion engine as barbaric. I think it's the thing within a few generations we will not be able to understand of the past both for the damage it did to our shared spaces, like Syt's pictures, and the environment.
Got it, so this is some sort of Timmay alt-history thing where we disregard changes in lifestyle that arose in the 20th century and easily think we can revert them. :lol:
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 05:46:21 AM
Got it, so this is some sort of Timmay alt-history thing where we disregard changes in lifestyle that arose in the 20th century and easily think we can revert them. :lol:
It's something I think we should do. Obviously it'll take time and lots of changes - but look at the transformation of day-to-day transport over the course of the last two centuries. Cars are an awful mid-twentieth century mistake, like asbestos. Those Vienna pics are gross.
I'd start with cities and big towns as they're the easiest though.
:lol: what a city-dweller attitude.
Try doing grocery shopping for more than one person with and without a car to change your opinion in a hurry. :P
Cars are FREEDOM compared to mass transit. Yeah, ownership might decline with the advent of robotic cars (I can't wait for self-driving cars, I hope I'll be able to afford one if I live to be an old git), but to consider train and subway riding like sardines as a higher form of being than driving or riding a car is just plain wrong.
Quote from: Tamas on October 06, 2020, 05:41:24 AM
Playing sardines-in-a-box on a train or subway is no way to live, is all I am saying.
On the London Tube maybe, on Vienna public transport rarely.
Quote from: Tamas on October 06, 2020, 05:53:24 AMTry doing grocery shopping for more than one person with and without a car to change your opinion in a hurry. :P
Weird, friends, including those with kids, manage to do that just fine.
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2020, 05:54:14 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 06, 2020, 05:53:24 AMTry doing grocery shopping for more than one person with and without a car to change your opinion in a hurry. :P
Weird, friends, including those with kids, manage to do that just fine.
I guess if one likes wasting an inordinate amount of time.
Waste time? For most it's a 5 minute walk to their supermarket of choice. Others I know have their shopping delivered, i.e. they go to the supermarket, pay, and then have their purchases delivered for a small fee (under 5 EUR). Sure beats paying hundreds of EUR every month in taxes, garage fees, etc. for a conveyance that sits idle 90+% of the time. If push comes to shove, there's still car sharing services if you have something larger to transport.
Quote from: Tamas on October 06, 2020, 05:53:24 AM
:lol: what a city-dweller attitude.
Try doing grocery shopping for more than one person with and without a car to change your opinion in a hurry. :P
And yet cities contain families :hmm:
It would be probably multiple little shops through the week because that is convenient if you don't need to go to the box out of town. The big shop is also not a good thing (I'm sure it leads to far more waste). My entire point isn't that we get rid of cars and everyone lives as they curently do with no change, my point is as the car was a wrenching social change we need to move away from it which will be a wrenching social change. But living without cars is not impossible (as most of human experience demonstrates), it's just different.
QuoteCars are FREEDOM compared to mass transit. Yeah, ownership might decline with the advent of robotic cars (I can't wait for self-driving cars, I hope I'll be able to afford one if I live to be an old git), but to consider train and subway riding like sardines as a higher form of being than driving or riding a car is just plain wrong.
:lol: I think it's more about social cost than moral worth. Cars are environmentally catastrophic (and the carbon emissions linked to energy, residential, industry and agriculture is declining; the emissions linked to cars from manufacture to use are still growing) and I think they've also made our towns and cities more ugly and less liveable. So much of our physical environment is built around the car and not the human - it's not a good thing.
Btw, this attitude of "I need a car, because I don't want to be mildly inconvenienced" is why I think we've pretty much lost the fight against Climate Change, because it pervades every layer and aspect of society (and I'm guilty of it, too, of course).
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2020, 05:59:27 AM
Waste time? For most it's a 5 minute walk to their supermarket of choice. Others I know have their shopping delivered, i.e. they go to the supermarket, pay, and then have their purchases delivered for a small fee (under 5 EUR). Sure beats paying hundreds of EUR every month in taxes, garage fees, etc. for a conveyance that sits idle 90+% of the time. If push comes to shove, there's still car sharing services if you have something larger to transport.
I think there might be a point of confusion in this discussion. We all are quite aware that many people in major cities do not need cars. Location of services and public transport will suffice. After all, I've been in London for 5 years and don't have a British driver's license. But the discussion doesn't appear to be limited to whether cities should ban cars from city centers but rather Sheilbh's claim that cars should be banished entirely.
I just looked up my childhood home in Massachusetts. A one way walk to the local grocery store would take 1 hour while a car ride (and then no groceries to carry) would take all of 9 minutes. I find it hard to fathom all the steps that would be necessary to make it so that public transport would be a welcome option over the current car journey.
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 06:06:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2020, 05:59:27 AM
Waste time? For most it's a 5 minute walk to their supermarket of choice. Others I know have their shopping delivered, i.e. they go to the supermarket, pay, and then have their purchases delivered for a small fee (under 5 EUR). Sure beats paying hundreds of EUR every month in taxes, garage fees, etc. for a conveyance that sits idle 90+% of the time. If push comes to shove, there's still car sharing services if you have something larger to transport.
I think there might be a point of confusion in this discussion. We all are quite aware that many people in major cities do not need cars. Location of services and public transport will suffice. After all, I've been in London for 5 years and don't have a British driver's license. But the discussion doesn't appear to be limited to whether cities should ban cars from city centers but rather Sheilbh's claim that cars should be banished entirely.
I just looked up my childhood home in Massachusetts. A one way walk to the local grocery store would take 1 hour while a car ride (and then no groceries to carry) would take all of 9 minutes. I find it hard to fathom all the steps that would be necessary to make it so that public transport would be a welcome option over the current car journey.
I agree of course that cars have their uses, especially in rural areas or - especially in the US - communities built around car usage. I think cars are an inefficient use of resources, though. A car sits idle long periods of time, so if this resource could be more evenly distributed, I think we could do with a lot less cars (keeping in mind that there are peak periods, e.g. during commuter hours). IMHO car pooling and car sharing initiatives are important, and I sincerely hope that once self driving cars become widespread we can get to a point where they will be used like a utility instead of everyone owning one.
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2020, 06:14:04 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 06:06:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2020, 05:59:27 AM
Waste time? For most it's a 5 minute walk to their supermarket of choice. Others I know have their shopping delivered, i.e. they go to the supermarket, pay, and then have their purchases delivered for a small fee (under 5 EUR). Sure beats paying hundreds of EUR every month in taxes, garage fees, etc. for a conveyance that sits idle 90+% of the time. If push comes to shove, there's still car sharing services if you have something larger to transport.
I think there might be a point of confusion in this discussion. We all are quite aware that many people in major cities do not need cars. Location of services and public transport will suffice. After all, I've been in London for 5 years and don't have a British driver's license. But the discussion doesn't appear to be limited to whether cities should ban cars from city centers but rather Sheilbh's claim that cars should be banished entirely.
I just looked up my childhood home in Massachusetts. A one way walk to the local grocery store would take 1 hour while a car ride (and then no groceries to carry) would take all of 9 minutes. I find it hard to fathom all the steps that would be necessary to make it so that public transport would be a welcome option over the current car journey.
I agree of course that cars have their uses, especially in rural areas or - especially in the US - communities built around car usage. I think cars are an inefficient use of resources, though. A car sits idle long periods of time, so if this resource could be more evenly distributed, I think we could do with a lot less cars (keeping in mind that there are peak periods, e.g. during commuter hours). IMHO car pooling and car sharing initiatives are important, and I sincerely hope that once self driving cars become widespread we can get to a point where they will be used like a utility instead of everyone owning one.
Okay so not a full defense of the notion of entirely doing away with them then?
Note, I didn't live in a rural area but in a city of 40,000. Which I would think suggests that adopting a metropolis approach everywhere would be a radical overhaul of how many people live. Presumably, in a car less world, you would either need to discourage people from living in spread out areas and/or tell them to adopt a horse and buggy. :D
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 06:17:06 AM
Okay so not a full defense of the notion of entirely doing away with them then?
Note, I didn't live in a rural area but in a city of 40,000. Which I would think suggests that adopting a metropolis approach everywhere would be a radical overhaul of how many people live. Presumably, in a car less world, you would either need to discourage people from living in spread out areas and/or tell them to adopt a horse and buggy. :D
That's a North American issue I would think, though - my town of 30k in Germany was perfectly walkable, but it grew historically and organically for the most part from the 9th century, whereas a lot of U.S. cities are much newer, and in the last 50-60(?) years designed around people having cars to get around.
( That said, a common trend, thanks to ubiquitous car ownership in Germany was/is stores moving out of the city center and opening stores on a big lot on the periphery.)
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 06:06:30 AM
I think there might be a point of confusion in this discussion. We all are quite aware that many people in major cities do not need cars. Location of services and public transport will suffice. After all, I've been in London for 5 years and don't have a British driver's license. But the discussion doesn't appear to be limited to whether cities should ban cars from city centers but rather Sheilbh's claim that cars should be banished entirely.
I don't think not having a car should be an urban luxury. We need to make it possible for no-one to need a car. Through remote selling/working/services, more new and better public transport (the number of trams in towns up and down the country, even tiny towns, that were torn up to make space for cars is a shame), making the roads comfortable and focused on cyclists, more density (living in a town or village so you're close to the shops not in a country house/farm). I think it's more possible now because of the internet.
You know I lived in one of the most remote parts of thie Highlands - I was 8 miles from a town with supermarkets etc. That's do-able with a bus service or on a bike.
And chances are even after those changes cars will be a more convenient or comfortable option - so you need eventually to ban them. From a purely European perspective since 2000 we've reduced the carbon output of energy, industry, agriculture and our homes. The emissions from transport is still growing and it's overwhelmingly on the roads. Unless we address that and make cars unnecessary I think we can't really adress the issue (and I think it would lead to a better physical environment that we all live in too).
I think we view other ways of life that aren't as car-focused as somehow intrinsic to that culture - Danes or Dutch cycling everywhere is a picturesque, but somewhat eccentric/unique cultural values. But those countries, like everywhere else, were very car-centric until the late 60s/70s when there were campaigns that led to planners and governments making different decisions. That produced a culture that is less car-centric. We can have that if we make those choices and we can go further. Re-claiming our city centres is a nice start though.
You're right - as I say I've no idea what larger countries do (although maybe people should live closer together).
I think it's telling that it is you guys living in the centres of major metropolitan centres that are against cars. The realities of living in modern society in a more humane setting (non-metropolises) make cars the overwhelmingly ideal choice. Making car use mor efficient is fine but getting away with them is entirely unrealistic.
I am worried about the outlook with regards to cars.
Pre corona the trend was very much against them. Cars are no longer a status symbol. Living somewhere you don't need a car is a goal for many.
With corona though I fear things are being pushed backwards significantly.
QuoteI think it's telling that it is you guys living in the centres of major metropolitan centres that are against cars. The realities of living in modern society in a more humane setting (non-metropolises) make cars the overwhelmingly ideal choice. Making car use mor efficient is fine but getting away with them is entirely unrealistic.
I'm against cars too. :bowler:
And no, really disagree they're the ideal choice. They're immensely damaging for society.
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 06:17:06 AM
Okay so not a full defense of the notion of entirely doing away with them then?
Note, I didn't live in a rural area but in a city of 40,000. Which I would think suggests that adopting a metropolis approach everywhere would be a radical overhaul of how many people live. Presumably, in a car less world, you would either need to discourage people from living in spread out areas and/or tell them to adopt a horse and buggy. :D
We need more of a solid hub and spoke model.
Its amazing that new housing developments keep being built in the middle of nowhere when there's plenty of small villages with underused train stations out there.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 06, 2020, 05:05:16 AM
:P
Ban cars :ultra:
(That is probably my most radical, impossible but sincerely held opinion :lol:)
Agreed, on all counts. A car-free city is the Dream (tm)
My electric robot butler car will show you all the error of your ways!!111
Whenever I finally get one anyway.
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2020, 06:22:52 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 06:17:06 AM
Okay so not a full defense of the notion of entirely doing away with them then?
Note, I didn't live in a rural area but in a city of 40,000. Which I would think suggests that adopting a metropolis approach everywhere would be a radical overhaul of how many people live. Presumably, in a car less world, you would either need to discourage people from living in spread out areas and/or tell them to adopt a horse and buggy. :D
That's a North American issue I would think, though - my town of 30k in Germany was perfectly walkable, but it grew historically and organically for the most part from the 9th century, whereas a lot of U.S. cities are much newer, and in the last 50-60(?) years designed around people having cars to get around.
( That said, a common trend, thanks to ubiquitous car ownership in Germany was/is stores moving out of the city center and opening stores on a big lot on the periphery.)
So agreed is an issue for newer planned places. Where I lived was actually founded in the 17th century, but I would bet where our house was, used to just be fields/orchards up until the car made it viable to live in such a place.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 06, 2020, 06:28:22 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 06:06:30 AM
I think there might be a point of confusion in this discussion. We all are quite aware that many people in major cities do not need cars. Location of services and public transport will suffice. After all, I've been in London for 5 years and don't have a British driver's license. But the discussion doesn't appear to be limited to whether cities should ban cars from city centers but rather Sheilbh's claim that cars should be banished entirely.
I don't think not having a car should be an urban luxury. We need to make it possible for no-one to need a car. Through remote selling/working/services, more new and better public transport (the number of trams in towns up and down the country, even tiny towns, that were torn up to make space for cars is a shame), making the roads comfortable and focused on cyclists, more density (living in a town or village so you're close to the shops not in a country house/farm). I think it's more possible now because of the internet.
You know I lived in one of the most remote parts of thie Highlands - I was 8 miles from a town with supermarkets etc. That's do-able with a bus service or on a bike.
And chances are even after those changes cars will be a more convenient or comfortable option - so you need eventually to ban them. From a purely European perspective since 2000 we've reduced the carbon output of energy, industry, agriculture and our homes. The emissions from transport is still growing and it's overwhelmingly on the roads. Unless we address that and make cars unnecessary I think we can't really adress the issue (and I think it would lead to a better physical environment that we all live in too).
I think we view other ways of life that aren't as car-focused as somehow intrinsic to that culture - Danes or Dutch cycling everywhere is a picturesque, but somewhat eccentric/unique cultural values. But those countries, like everywhere else, were very car-centric until the late 60s/70s when there were campaigns that led to planners and governments making different decisions. That produced a culture that is less car-centric. We can have that if we make those choices and we can go further. Re-claiming our city centres is a nice start though.
You're right - as I say I've no idea what larger countries do (although maybe people should live closer together).
All of which sound like some pretty radical changes and you would need long term planning to get there. After all, you can't just ban cars and expect people to rely on services that aren't there or for services to suddenly ramp up.
Also, I can't help feeling that we may be missing the mark by not thinking about people who may not have an additional hour or so to add to their day by taking a bike to work (let alone think of the state of them when they get into work...;)).
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 08:59:28 AM
Also, I can't help feeling that we may be missing the mark by not thinking about people who may not have an additional hour or so to add to their day by taking a bike to work (let alone think of the state of them when they get into work...;)).
A lot of people seem to be perfectly fine about wasting two or more hours a day in traffic. Apparently they're not that busy, after all ;)
Quote from: Maladict on October 06, 2020, 09:38:15 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 08:59:28 AM
Also, I can't help feeling that we may be missing the mark by not thinking about people who may not have an additional hour or so to add to their day by taking a bike to work (let alone think of the state of them when they get into work...;)).
A lot of people seem to be perfectly fine about wasting two or more hours a day in traffic. Apparently they're not that busy, after all ;)
But you see, unless you go from central city location to central city location it won't be shorter by train not in Hungary and England at least.
In fact just the other day I drove to central London instead of my usual train option because of covid. It took me bit less than an hour to arrive 5 minute walk from where I was going, as opposed to 10 minute drive to train station, 40 minute train ride, then 20 minute tube ride, then 10 minutes on foot. And although parking was obnoxiously expensive because I parked in the middle of a posh area, it was still a few pounds cheaper than a return train ticket (tube is cheap so I won't add that).
Quote from: Maladict on October 06, 2020, 09:38:15 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 08:59:28 AM
Also, I can't help feeling that we may be missing the mark by not thinking about people who may not have an additional hour or so to add to their day by taking a bike to work (let alone think of the state of them when they get into work...;)).
A lot of people seem to be perfectly fine about wasting two or more hours a day in traffic. Apparently they're not that busy, after all ;)
:hmm:
Logic seems off as those individuals would then be spending what up to 4 hours a day on a bicycle?
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 08:59:28 AM
All of which sound like some pretty radical changes and you would need long term planning to get there. After all, you can't just ban cars and expect people to rely on services that aren't there or for services to suddenly ramp up.
Oh for sure - I'm not saying we ban them tomorrow. But I would ban them in city centres tomorrow. There's lots to do to make it possible, but I think it should be our goal.
QuoteAlso, I can't help feeling that we may be missing the mark by not thinking about people who may not have an additional hour or so to add to their day by taking a bike to work (let alone think of the state of them when they get into work...;)).
I agree. I think about 45 minutes is the max people are willing to travel (one way) for work and a move away from cars reconfigures where they would want to live, or the extent to which they need to physically be in the office. I think those are both current trends.
QuoteBut you see, unless you go from central city location to central city location it won't be shorter by train not in Hungary and England at least.
In fact just the other day I drove to central London instead of my usual train option because of covid. It took me bit less than an hour to arrive 5 minute walk from where I was going, as opposed to 10 minute drive to train station, 40 minute train ride, then 20 minute tube ride, then 10 minutes on foot. And although parking was obnoxiously expensive because I parked in the middle of a posh area, it was still a few pounds cheaper than a return train ticket (tube is cheap so I won't add that).
But again I'm not saying let's have everything exactlly as they are but we ban cars. I'm saying we change our society to remove the need for cars and then (because people are lazy) we ban them, where that's already possible we should do it. It's an argument for more density (both cities and towns), for different thinking about work, for different ways of travel etc.
So that's a prime example. In my view you should be encouraged to live closer to the office or your work should be encouraged to query if you really need to come in if you (and the rest of your team etc) actually don't need to and don't like living in the city. In which case there's no need for you to be here at all. You could go to Lincolnshire :P
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 09:49:28 AM
Quote from: Maladict on October 06, 2020, 09:38:15 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 08:59:28 AM
Also, I can't help feeling that we may be missing the mark by not thinking about people who may not have an additional hour or so to add to their day by taking a bike to work (let alone think of the state of them when they get into work...;)).
A lot of people seem to be perfectly fine about wasting two or more hours a day in traffic. Apparently they're not that busy, after all ;)
:hmm:
Logic seems off as those individuals would then be spending what up to 4 hours a day on a bicycle?
I'm just saying if time was that precious, you'd think people would move closer to their work or find work closer to home.
I find that motorists who moan a lot about public transport being inefficient will take massive traffic jams as a fact of life. It seems to be more of a mindset than anything else.
Quote from: Maladict on October 06, 2020, 11:22:42 AM
I find that motorists who moan a lot about public transport being inefficient will take massive traffic jams as a fact of life. It seems to be more of a mindset than anything else.
When I moved to Edmonton 9 years ago I did the park-and-ride - drive to the LRT station then take the train. But the park-and-ride started filling up earlier and earlier to the point where I was just driving to work most days.
I had a real aversion to taking the bus from my house to the LRT - buses are crowded and for poor people. But once I got over that and started busing I found it quite a bit more enjoyable than fighting traffic every day.
There is definitely a mindset at work.
And of course now due to Covid I'm stuck driving again. <_<
Quote from: Maladict on October 06, 2020, 11:22:42 AM
I'm just saying if time was that precious, you'd think people would move closer to their work or find work closer to home.
I find that motorists who moan a lot about public transport being inefficient will take massive traffic jams as a fact of life. It seems to be more of a mindset than anything else.
Yeah I love public transport or cycling/walking because I can either fill my time with reading/work as necessary or I'm getting at least some exercise. Car journeys are just dead time.
I would add that I would have some sympathy with the whole "cars are FREEDOM" line if people were mainly using them to do Route 66 or other freedom-enhancing journeys. But they are typically used sort of trapped on the M62 or pootling to and from the local Morrisons. It doesn't scream freedom to me, just a waste :P
Quote from: Maladict on October 06, 2020, 11:22:42 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 09:49:28 AM
Quote from: Maladict on October 06, 2020, 09:38:15 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 08:59:28 AM
Also, I can't help feeling that we may be missing the mark by not thinking about people who may not have an additional hour or so to add to their day by taking a bike to work (let alone think of the state of them when they get into work...;)).
A lot of people seem to be perfectly fine about wasting two or more hours a day in traffic. Apparently they're not that busy, after all ;)
:hmm:
Logic seems off as those individuals would then be spending what up to 4 hours a day on a bicycle?
I'm just saying if time was that precious, you'd think people would move closer to their work or find work closer to home.
I find that motorists who moan a lot about public transport being inefficient will take massive traffic jams as a fact of life. It seems to be more of a mindset than anything else.
Unless, of course, say you can't afford to live near your work (and/or don't want to live in the shoebox which is all you can afford).
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 06, 2020, 11:33:59 AM
Quote from: Maladict on October 06, 2020, 11:22:42 AM
I'm just saying if time was that precious, you'd think people would move closer to their work or find work closer to home.
I find that motorists who moan a lot about public transport being inefficient will take massive traffic jams as a fact of life. It seems to be more of a mindset than anything else.
Yeah I love public transport or cycling/walking because I can either fill my time with reading/work as necessary or I'm getting at least some exercise. Car journeys are just dead time.
I would add that I would have some sympathy with the whole "cars are FREEDOM" line if people were mainly using them to do Route 66 or other freedom-enhancing journeys. But they are typically used sort of trapped on the M62 or pootling to and from the local Morrisons. It doesn't scream freedom to me, just a waste :P
It also just seems to me that you have a myopic vision of car usage. When I lived in SF, having a car was preferrable for my commute as otherwise I would need to spending time walking to the metro station, taking that to a near suburb where I would have to catch a bus and then walk from that bus station to my office. Taking my car halved that time and then also gave me easy freedom to run errands during my breaks from work.
It also greatly changed my life in SF as I could easily visit parts of the city that would otherwise take at least an hour to get to by public transport, as well as easy reach/access to all the areas that surrounded SF.
Without a radical change of public transport, my life would have been very, very limited.
Similarly, I feel like my experience of life in the UK has been far different from what it would be if I had a car as there are so many out of the way bits that I'd easily be able to reach but aren't worth all the effort changing lines multiple times over to get to from London.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 06, 2020, 11:33:59 AM
Yeah I love public transport or cycling/walking because I can either fill my time with reading/work as necessary or I'm getting at least some exercise. Car journeys are just dead time.
Exactly, I'll take a one hour train ride over a 30 minute car ride any day.
I guess if you are young and single but what if you are elderly, disabled or have to juggle the needs of young children? Just wistfully hiking from train to train for hour after hour seems less romantic under many circumstances.
Nevermind traveling to less developed areas or hauling things.
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2020, 12:27:11 PM
Unless, of course, say you can't afford to live near your work (and/or don't want to live in the shoebox which is all you can afford).
Of course. But still, when I had a one hour commute I couldn't imagine having a two hour one. There just wouldn't be enough time. And then I got a two hour commute, by car, but opted for the three hour train ride. I'm not saying I enjoyed it, but I've never read so much in my life. The two hour car commute would have broken me.
That said, both a two or three hour commute will make me look for a new job fairly quickly.
Again I mean I'm not saying we do this now. My point is all of these things you're pointing out that cars are better for is because we have built our society around people using cars. We can make other choices and that may change the balance - as we've seen in the Netherlands or Denmark.
Although the disability and elderly is slightly weird to me because outside of the cities on country buses I'd guess 80% of the people you see are disabled or elderly users (plus the school runs). I think it's something like 60% of people with disabilities don't have a car, the elderly get free bus travel and often don't feel comfortable/safe driving. The bus services are nowhere near good enough for these people at the minute. But we should be improving public transport for them (and for everyone else too).
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 06, 2020, 01:47:49 PM
Again I mean I'm not saying we do this now. My point is all of these things you're pointing out that cars are better for is because we have built our society around people using cars. We can make other choices and that may change the balance - as we've seen in the Netherlands or Denmark.
So back in the 1890s and 1900s cars weren't very useful because we had built our society around using horses and trains? No. They were useful immediately, we didn't need to construct our society around them. Now sure the way cities were constructed changed and were laid out changed due to cars but even if that never happened cars were still useful and popular before that. If we had to completely reconstruct everything to make cars work cars would have never caught on.
QuoteAlthough the disability and elderly is slightly weird to me because outside of the cities on country buses I'd guess 80% of the people you see are disabled or elderly users (plus the school runs). I think it's something like 60% of people with disabilities don't have a car, the elderly get free bus travel and often don't feel comfortable/safe driving. The bus services are nowhere near good enough for these people at the minute. But we should be improving public transport for them (and for everyone else too).
Well congrats on your elderly and disable people being able to climb up and down the massive amounts of stairs and elbow their way through the crowds one would need on most metro stations. Or I guess they just all happen to live on convenient bus routes?
And again what if I am hauling things around?
I mean I hate cars, I hate owning a car and I hate driving. But this seems completely out of touch with the reality of living anywhere but a very dense urban area which is a very tiny percentage of most countries.
Quote from: Valmy on October 06, 2020, 01:56:03 PMIf we had to completely reconstruct everything to make cars work cars would have never caught on.
But we did. We tore down urban fabric, razed entire neighborhoods, extended gigantic urban sprawls to make cars work. Cars were not immediately useful. They were a symbol of luxury, and served no practical purpose for a population who lived in close proximity to their places of employment; who were already well served by public transportation; and who certainly didn't have the real estate to house one unused for most of the day.
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 06, 2020, 02:13:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 06, 2020, 01:56:03 PMIf we had to completely reconstruct everything to make cars work cars would have never caught on.
But we did. We tore down urban fabric, razed entire neighborhoods, extended gigantic urban sprawls to make cars work.
We connected existing towns to city centers so more people could have access to employment and living that did not involve being controlled by their employers in company towns nor mashed together in tenements. People did this because the previous conditions were horrible. Cars enabled it, and it did come with a price, but last I checked most of those urban areas are still intact AND plenty of urban neighborhoods had been raised before to accomodate other changes that predated cars. Like Haussmann's Paris.
QuoteCars were not immediately useful. They were a symbol of luxury, and served no practical purpose for a population who lived in close proximity to their places of employment; who were already well served by public transportation; and who certainly didn't have the real estate to house one unused for most of the day.
Oh so Henry Ford went broke making a useless piece of equipment useful only to the luxurious rich? It was just much more convenient to move goods to and from the train station using horses than trucks?
Quick look suggests that it was about 20 years between when Model T was made available and 60% of American households had adopted the car.
(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/business/technology%20adoption%20rate%20century.png)
I mean we also greatly altered how society functioned and how things were built to take advantage of trains, but it wasn't like trains were not useful before we did that. Their were immediately beneficial, we did change things around to take advantage of those benefits and I am sure we paid a price for that.
Interesting with all cord cutting of Telephones during the depression.
The same graph to 2020 would be really interesting.
Speaking of public transport, Vienna is following the example of other cities, and is greening up some parts of the tram network.
(https://favoriten.gruene.at/gfx?j=9ad544922da35cfe05c7fb4121a7e2ef)
How do you mow areas without rails?
And you Viennese got all uppity when Trump said you live in a forest :P
Quote from: Tamas on October 06, 2020, 02:36:46 PM
And you Viennese got all uppity when Trump said you live in a forest :P
Clearly elves :hmm:
Quote from: Valmy on October 06, 2020, 02:19:33 PMbut last I checked most of those urban areas are still intact AND plenty of urban neighborhoods had been raised before to accomodate other changes that predated cars. Like Haussmann's Paris.
You checked poorly. Yes, Hausmann's Paris is a great example of how wide boulevards created to accommodate martial law and bourgeois sensibility could be repurposed without too much trouble for the car. So it was for most boulevards - large avenues created, often on the space formerly occupied by fortifications, and therefore, usually the space of poor neighborhoods or squatters that were torn down without much opposition.
Many European towns however had the good fortune of having gone through a horrific world conflict that left their core devastated, ready to be rebuilt with the car in mind. It's not a coincidence that European cities that escaped relatively unscathed enjoy today high density and thick networks of public transportation. That is certainly not the case in the US. The core of most American cities has been gutted for the passage of highways. Scenic drives created for the purpose of leisurly strolls have become highspeed transitways; downtowns were fled en masse once the states were fully committed to sustaining endless sprawl with considerable infrastructure.
QuoteOh so Henry Ford went broke making a useless piece of equipment useful only to the luxurious rich? It was just much more convenient to move goods to and from the train station using horses than trucks?
Less shrill irony, please. Moving goods is certainly one use for motor vehicle but I thought we were discussing how they impacted city life. Corporate ownership of motor vehicle =/= personal possession of a car. Especially since "conditions were horrible" doesn't really fit with who got to own a car fast. The people who lived in squalor were not the ones who rushed to own a car.
The graph reminds me that my grandparents owned a wood burning kitchen stove dating back to the late 1940s that was made up to look like an electric stove - my guess is that, at the time, owning an electric stove was a bit of a social step up. Poor folks made do with wood burning.
Nowadays, wood stoves sold in the first world are often made to look olde-Timey, In their all cast iron glory, because they are more of a luxury.
Anyway, that stove lasted until the late 1980s, then started to burn through and we replaced it in the cabin with a modern one ... which did not cook stuff nearly as well.
That's the one time where cars fill a big need that it's hard to see being filled by something else, when buying big items like furniture.
Still, that's not exactly an every day thing. Not even an every year thing.
I get around in a palanquin.
Quote from: Tyr on October 06, 2020, 02:50:02 PM
That's the one time where cars fill a big need that it's hard to see being filled by something else, when buying big items like furniture.
Still, that's not exactly an every day thing. Not even an every year thing.
Spoken like a man who doesn't have three boys who play hockey. :ph34r:
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 06, 2020, 02:43:18 PM
You checked poorly. Yes, Hausmann's Paris is a great example of how wide boulevards created to accommodate martial law and bourgeois sensibility could be repurposed without too much trouble for the car. So it was for most boulevards - large avenues created, often on the space formerly occupied by fortifications, and therefore, usually the space of poor neighborhoods or squatters that were torn down without much opposition.
Many European towns however had the good fortune of having gone through a horrific world conflict that left their core devastated, ready to be rebuilt with the car in mind. It's not a coincidence that European cities that escaped relatively unscathed enjoy today high density and thick networks of public transportation. That is certainly not the case in the US. The core of most American cities has been gutted for the passage of highways. Scenic drives created for the purpose of leisurly strolls have become highspeed transitways; downtowns were fled en masse once the states were fully committed to sustaining endless sprawl with considerable infrastructure.
The population of the US in 1890 was 63 million. The population today is 330 million. The population of Texas in 1890 was 2.2 million, today it is 29 million. Are you implying somehow we would have kept the same core and not built out anything without cars? Where would all these people live?
Downtowns have been emptied and revived multiple times as economics change. It is not like cities did not rot and decay away and get revivied before cars came along. Numerous boomtowns and cities were born and decayed all through the 19th century in the US.
QuoteLess shrill irony, please. Moving goods is certainly one use for motor vehicle but I thought we were discussing how they impacted city life.
I was not specifically discussing that actually but taking on the assertion that the only reason cars are useful in modern society was because we built society around them. I do agree that in urban areas cars are not particularly ideal. But, as I said, urban areas are only a small percentage of the land area of most countries. And these days they are crazy expensive, outside the means of many people. So I don't necessarily think it is the worst thing that one can live in a less expensive town or suburban area and be able to commute where the jobs are.
Quote from: Valmy on October 06, 2020, 03:30:21 PMThe population of the US in 1890 was 63 million. The population today is 330 million. The population of Texas in 1890 was 2.2 million, today it is 29 million. Are you implying somehow we would have kept the same core and not built out anything without cars? Where would all these people live?
It's you who seem to be implying that the car is only reason why these numbers are sustainable. That seems like a strange assertion. There could have been many ways to organize cities without sacrificing so much to the car, the purpose of which, if it is to carry people from point A to point B, is remarkably inefficient. That this inefficient means of transportation has become necessary in modern societies is hardly a point in its favor, and indeed, points to the fact that we *made* it necessary, rather than answering some imperative of efficiency.
Now, you seem to want to twist this position into a caricature of luddism, that the car has no utility, and no superiority of any case over the horse and cart. This is clearly not the case. Motor vehicles clearly have a lot of technical advantages; and powerful trucks, farm equipments, bulldozers, etc. clearly are superiors to animal power. But the majority of motor vehicles are used a comparatively ridiculous amount of time, to ferry an increasingly small number of people, for quite a considerable cost to the environment. This was not foreordained by the superiority of the motor. It's a result of social pressures and social choices we are now constrained by, notably: that all of our infrastructure relies on this inefficient use of capital, space, and energy. i.e., that we are stuck in a situation where we desire a way of life that came about with cheap land and cheap car, heavily subsidized roads, bulk consumption and endless sprawl.
From a Twitter thread - prices for fruit/vegetable products in the Arctic (Nunavut), explaining why hunting is still an important means of survival. Prices are in Canadian Dollar.
https://twitter.com/KataraPiujuq/status/1313673898609774599
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjscEa0XYAEgLnW?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjscEa0WoAIbSwQ?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjscEa0XkAIChtV?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjscEa2XsAAYNsW?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjscUfnXYAMd2BY?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjscUfoWsAY5UfS?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjscUfoXsAAr2Yk?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjscUfqX0AEPDVE?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsckeEWAAAmEhS?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsckeEXsAEBMhT?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsckeFXsAE4ibL?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsckeGXYAEXPOP?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ejsc8G9WsAAJQCM?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ejsc8G9XYAArd0O?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ejsc8G-XkAEZMEV?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ejsc8G9XgAAw_Ib?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsdJUNXkAAbK7q?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsdJUNWsAE0kiL?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsdJUQWAAAG5FS?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsdJUNWoAECjFS?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsdXQwXsAAiwYF?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsdXQwX0AEvHV3?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsdXQwWsAMLa3u?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsdXQzWkAAlY1c?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsdqS4WsAAz-Ck?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsdqS2XYAIr_di?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsdqS2XcAEj2DW?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjsdqS6WoAAhoQM?format=jpg&name=small)
Seems the smart people up there will be investing in grow lights and insulation.
And some of those prices have built subsidies(like show on some price tags)
The arctic is far for a citrus to go to.
There is no highway to Nunavut. Other than a very short shipping season in the summer, every last thing has to be flown in. So yes, fresh fruits and vegetables are hideously expensive.
Yukon for comparison, has a major highway (the Alaska Highway), so produce was only very slightly more expensive than down south, even though there are at comparable latitudes.
Don't want to steal Syt's thread - but thought these may be of interest. Some Emil Mayer photos of pre-1914 Vienna:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1ND_GwWoAAd3lC?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1ND_G1XgAEQXMw?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1ND_HBXcAEpgGP?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1NEAH8WoAE2lVY?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1ND_G2XQAA3TDT?format=jpg&name=small)
It's interesting watching a discussion about car usage between Europeans and Americans. It reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend of mine who'd just moved to Chicago from London. He was being interviewed for a job and they asked if it was possible for him to come into the office for a face-to-face interview. (This was 25 years ago, so video conferencing wasn't really available.) He said sure! He was going to be in New York in the next couple of weeks and he would just "pop over" to Chicago for the interview. His plan was to drive there with a friend for a "couple of days" because that sounded fun anyway. Then he mapped it. Then he priced flights. Then he priced the train and looked at train schedules.
It never occurred to him that even though the map shows Chicago as only "this far" from New York, it would amount to 1000 miles (~1600km).
Distance in the US (and Canada, to an extent, though most of their cities are packed along the border) is not comparable to European distances. Even cities are spread out for the most part, compared to Paris, London, Rome.
So trying to say that the US wastes time/energy on cars is almost silly. Unless one stays completely within a city - and not all cities have good public transit - cars are essential. One can get by in some cities without a problem, but for most Americans, it's just not optional.
Your conclusion doesn't match the rest of the post there.
American cities being so horribly spread out is not the natural way they must be. Pre war they were far more compact and along a similar scale to European cities. With public transport.
Instead of following this more efficient path America instead lead the pack in the disasterous mid 20th century trend of car focused urban design.
Quote from: Tyr on October 13, 2020, 03:01:47 PM
Your conclusion doesn't match the rest of the post there.
American cities being so horribly spread out is not the natural way they must be. Pre war they were far more compact and along a similar scale to European cities. With public transport.
Instead of following this more efficient path America instead lead the pack in the disasterous mid 20th century trend of car focused urban design.
Yes let's get all close together, pile up tiny living spaces next to each other and leave tons of "green spaces" and above all golf courses. That is ought to restrict reliance on cars.
:P
I never said Britain had it right either. We are one of the worst in Europe, especially when you consider how much we threw away to get here. :contract:
Quote from: Tyr on October 13, 2020, 03:01:47 PM
Your conclusion doesn't match the rest of the post there.
American cities being so horribly spread out is not the natural way they must be. Pre war they were far more compact and along a similar scale to European cities. With public transport.
Instead of following this more efficient path America instead lead the pack in the disasterous mid 20th century trend of car focused urban design.
We have much better housing at much lower prices than Europeans who seem to live in tiny shitholes for enormous prices. Also many European countries are just massive urban areas of dozens and dozens of interconnected cities and...hey...that is almost exactly the same as our spread out cities. You just label it differently.
Quote from: Tyr on October 13, 2020, 03:11:32 PM
I never said Britain had it right either. We are one of the worst in Europe, especially when you consider how much we threw away to get here. :contract:
So we should aim for this:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Paris_uu_ua_jms.png)
So very compact.
Rather more (on my phone so very bleh)
(https://i.ibb.co/svyC0T9/9a59d391-9d96-4115-9ca0-c6a6dce366c2.png)
Everyone is 10 minutes from a station. Mixture of express and local trains to give full access to everyone whilst at the same time minimising how long it takes to travel long distances.
And hey. The best house in the world is no good if it takes you forever to get there and there's no town centre to go to for leisure time.
Quote from: Valmy on October 13, 2020, 03:15:16 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 13, 2020, 03:11:32 PM
I never said Britain had it right either. We are one of the worst in Europe, especially when you consider how much we threw away to get here. :contract:
So we should aim for this:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Paris_uu_ua_jms.png)
So very compact.
Bad example, Paris is a really compact city for its size.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacy.iaacblog.com%2Fmaa2014-2015-economics-of-sustainability%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F12%2Furban-footprints.png&hash=f7c850e2d4a6218f7c6be42b813c0229afed94b0)
Quote from: Tyr on October 13, 2020, 03:28:41 PM
Rather more (on my phone so very bleh)
Christaller would be proud.
Quote from: merithyn on October 13, 2020, 12:34:40 PM
It's interesting watching a discussion about car usage between Europeans and Americans. It reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend of mine who'd just moved to Chicago from London. He was being interviewed for a job and they asked if it was possible for him to come into the office for a face-to-face interview. (This was 25 years ago, so video conferencing wasn't really available.) He said sure! He was going to be in New York in the next couple of weeks and he would just "pop over" to Chicago for the interview. His plan was to drive there with a friend for a "couple of days" because that sounded fun anyway. Then he mapped it. Then he priced flights. Then he priced the train and looked at train schedules.
It never occurred to him that even though the map shows Chicago as only "this far" from New York, it would amount to 1000 miles (~1600km).
Distance in the US (and Canada, to an extent, though most of their cities are packed along the border) is not comparable to European distances. Even cities are spread out for the most part, compared to Paris, London, Rome.
So trying to say that the US wastes time/energy on cars is almost silly. Unless one stays completely within a city - and not all cities have good public transit - cars are essential. One can get by in some cities without a problem, but for most Americans, it's just not optional.
People keep mentioning the US despite the fact I said I wasn't really talking about big places :lol:
My point is the reason cars are not optional for people is because we have constructed a society that is based on and revolves around access to cars. If we make different decisions, we get a different result.
I think you have it mixed up. We created a society to which car is the optimal answer.
I would agree that crs in big cities created the very problem they were designed to solve: lack of freedom to easily get from point A to point B.
Different solutions would have required different priorities. Technology in the form of self-driving cars which can be pooled rather than individually owned may change that solution, though. We can hope.
Quote from: Maladict on October 13, 2020, 03:32:42 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacy.iaacblog.com%2Fmaa2014-2015-economics-of-sustainability%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F12%2Furban-footprints.png&hash=f7c850e2d4a6218f7c6be42b813c0229afed94b0)
Jesus. Is that the ending of a Teletubbies gangbang?
Quote from: Tyr on October 13, 2020, 03:01:47 PM
Your conclusion doesn't match the rest of the post there.
American cities being so horribly spread out is not the natural way they must be. Pre war they were far more compact and along a similar scale to European cities. With public transport.
Instead of following this more efficient path America instead lead the pack in the disasterous mid 20th century trend of car focused urban design.
Uh, no. Most American cities were not compact like European cities. Most American cities were platted out in a grid well before much building started. Land was cheap so spreading out made economic sense. Most European cities were not planned out so streets and buildings were just put where ever.
Keep in mind that cars replaced something much dirtier and less efficient: Horses. Pre-automobile cities required significant infrastructure to feed, stable, and maintain horses. Horse waste is a also a problem. In pre-automobile cities the streets were covered in horse shit.
That's not a city you're talking about, it's a county.
Horses were a few steps behind cars. They were already on the way out with trams.
In actual cities not many people bar the very wealthy had a horse (and carriage and driver) in the way people have a car today.
Quote from: Tyr on October 13, 2020, 03:28:41 PM
Rather more (on my phone so very bleh)
(https://i.ibb.co/svyC0T9/9a59d391-9d96-4115-9ca0-c6a6dce366c2.png)
Everyone is 10 minutes from a station. Mixture of express and local trains to give full access to everyone whilst at the same time minimising how long it takes to travel long distances.
And hey. The best house in the world is no good if it takes you forever to get there and there's no town centre to go to for leisure time.
Why would someone be bothered about a town center?
Quote from: garbon on October 13, 2020, 04:47:46 PM]
Why would someone be bothered about a town center?
Some people like other people, concerts, clubs, restaurants, etc...
Quote from: Tyr on October 13, 2020, 04:50:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 13, 2020, 04:47:46 PM]
Why would someone be bothered about a town center?
Some people like other people, concerts, clubs, restaurants, etc...
Those things don't have to all be in one location.
Quote from: garbon on October 13, 2020, 04:54:37 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 13, 2020, 04:50:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 13, 2020, 04:47:46 PM]
Why would someone be bothered about a town center?
Some people like other people, concerts, clubs, restaurants, etc...
Those things don't have to all be in one location.
They are far more effective when they are.
Not to mention the prospect of encouraging drink driving.
Don't see why that needs to be the case. Seems they would be better spread out, less crowding.
Also, perhaps people shouldn't aim to get blotto when going out. :contract:
Quote from: Tyr on October 13, 2020, 04:43:07 PM
That's not a city you're talking about, it's a county.
Horses were a few steps behind cars. They were already on the way out with trams.
In actual cities not many people bar the very wealthy had a horse (and carriage and driver) in the way people have a car today.
No, I'm describing cities in the US. Cities in the US were not like cities in Europe.
Trams were pulled by horses. Horses were by no means restricted to the wealthy in the US. The average American was much wealthier than his European cousins and horses more common. Now people didn't own horses the same way people owned cars but they were common. If you ran a business you needed something to move goods from the train station or dock to your establishment. That meant horses.
Something else that should be considered is that many American cities didn't become large until after cars were invented. Denver is a midsized American city. It has 600k people today. In 1880 it had 35k. Phoenix has 1.6 million. In 1880 it had 1.7 thousand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q5Nur642BU
This is a fairly famous film shot in San Francisco in 1906. You see a lot of cars and horse drawn wagons.
Quote from: grumbler on October 13, 2020, 04:02:35 PM
Different solutions would have required different priorities. Technology in the form of self-driving cars which can be pooled rather than individually owned may change that solution, though. We can hope.
We already have a prototype of this in the form of pooled cars. Since they still require a driver, the car can't drop you at your job and get someone else elsewhere, but still, the option to go without a car unless the days you really need it is there. It does not reduce traffic by much.
We have traffic because we have standardized working hours in cities. Try to get public transit in the opposite direction of the traffic flow at a specific hour and you are fucked. Try living just outside the city center and using public transit on week-ends and you are fucked.
Cities are unwilling to invest in any kind of transit that would favor a neighbouring city and governments are unwilling to defend pricey inter-urban transit solutions when it's clear most people prefer to be in their own "bubble". To make people forgo their cars to use something else, that something else has to be much more convenient. If it takes longer and requires you to be cramped for all the duration of the trip, people won't use it.
Even with self driving cars, if the majority of people need to be at work and at school by 8:00am and need to be at the kindergarden before 17:00, you will have the same traffic problems. And having a shared car means you must trust the hygiene of the other people using the car, which is one of the reason why most people buy their own cars: to be alone in there, in your things.
QuoteDon't see why that needs to be the case. Seems they would be better spread out, less crowding.
Also, perhaps people shouldn't aim to get blotto when going out. :contract:
Well I've lived in American style towns and European style ones and the difference is night and day. A thriving town centre really makes all the difference.
Network effects are very real and footfall is a huge thing people look out for when setting up this kind of business.
And you don't have to be drunk at all to fall foul of drink driving laws. Just 2 beers and you're done.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 13, 2020, 08:03:21 PM
No, I'm describing cities in the US. Cities in the US were not like cities in Europe.
Which we would call a county.
When we are talking about cities we aren't talking about places officially called a city with people scattered over an area the size of a small country, we are talking about your New York, Philadelphias, etc...
QuoteTrams were pulled by horses.
At first this was common. By the time cars came in horse drawn trams were pretty much extinct. (I do wonder where the last hold ons were).
Quote
Horses were by no means restricted to the wealthy in the US. The average American was much wealthier than his European cousins and horses more common. Now people didn't own horses the same way people owned cars but they were common. If you ran a business you needed something to move goods from the train station or dock to your establishment. That meant horses.
Sure. If you ran a relevant sort of business. This was a minority of people however.
In the country then absolutely horses were more common with typical Americans. There were a lot more people with their own farms in the US afterall and the frontier was still a thing.
In cities though I've seen no evidence that horses were much more common in the US.
Quote
Something else that should be considered is that many American cities didn't become large until after cars were invented. Denver is a midsized American city. It has 600k people today. In 1880 it had 35k. Phoenix has 1.6 million. In 1880 it had 1.7 thousand.
Yes. This is definitely a factor in America going all in for mid 20th century trends. Its the same for towns over here that were founded in the era and why Japan is similar. Really unfortunate combination of events.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 13, 2020, 03:43:26 PM
People keep mentioning the US despite the fact I said I wasn't really talking about big places :lol:
My point is the reason cars are not optional for people is because we have constructed a society that is based on and revolves around access to cars. If we make different decisions, we get a different result.
Besides the fact that the forum having many people who live in North America, I think it is a reasonable point to raise when suggesting a car ban. Why would people want to give up conveniences that other places would continue to have?
Quote from: Tyr on October 14, 2020, 05:36:57 AM
Yes. This is definitely a factor in America going all in for mid 20th century trends. Its the same for towns over here that were founded in the era and why Japan is similar. Really unfortunate combination of events.
I would like to slightly caveat this with America going all in for mid-20th century trends being possibly my favourite thing about America, because I l o v e that aesthetic :wub:
Okay, I'm confused by Tyr's county/city thing.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 14, 2020, 07:58:00 AM
Okay, I'm confused by Tyr's county/city thing.
America throws around the title of city willy nilly. Practically any settlement can be a city. If its a strip of land full of farms and scattered clusters of houses then it isn't a city in my book.
I saw this kind of thing a lot in Japan. There's been a huge trend, especially this century, to merge towns and villages into "cities" for ease of administration despite them really just being a collection of towns scattered over hundreds of square kilometers. Perhaps more famously China has also done that a lot in modern times, effectively just counting a city as a non agricultural county.
When we are comparing cities in the US and in Europe we should try to compare like with like, comparing the true cities of each rather than semi rural areas.
Quote from: Tyr on October 14, 2020, 08:24:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 14, 2020, 07:58:00 AM
Okay, I'm confused by Tyr's county/city thing.
America throws around the title of city willy nilly. Practically any settlement can be a city. If its a strip of land full of farms and scattered clusters of houses then it isn't a city in my book.
I saw this kind of thing a lot in Japan. There's been a huge trend, especially this century, to merge towns and villages into "cities" for ease of administration despite them really just being a collection of towns scattered over hundreds of square kilometers. Perhaps more famously China has also done that a lot in modern times, effectively just counting a city as a non agricultural county.
When we are comparing cities in the US and in Europe we should try to compare like with like, comparing the true cities of each rather than semi rural areas.
Well except that say city status in the UK isn't actually applied by specific criteria. Armagh with ~14k population is a city.
Quote from: garbon on October 14, 2020, 08:39:27 AM
Well except that say city status in the UK isn't actually applied by specific criteria. Armagh with ~14k population is a city.
But isn't Tyr's point it's not about the formal title but whether somewhere's an actual urban area. So yeah I think you have city status from the Medieval period if you have a Cathedral or a castle, or maybe a university? But I don't think Tyr is suggesting comparing NYC and the City of Wells :P
Aye, just because the US doesn't do it well doesn't mean the UK is perfect. Having a cathedral this side of the reformation isn't exactly a smart way to distinguish whether somewhere is a city or not.
With modern towns and city status we have things a bit straighter. It's a very limited thing given in only exceptional circumstances. Still not great though. Metropolitan counties are probably our most sensible approach, with the addition of some larger urban areas not defined as such.
But yes. More talking about Merseyside than Liverpool and only Liverpool.
Let's go to something concrete. I think we can all agree Oxford is a city with 150k populace. There's also a defined city core.
And yet, without a car, unless you live in the city centre, it is pretty hard to get around. What do you envision are the steps needed to get Oxfordites out of their cars?
Quote from: garbon on October 14, 2020, 09:28:23 AM
Let's go to something concrete. I think we can all agree Oxford is a city with 150k populace. There's also a defined city core.
And yet, without a car, unless you live in the city centre, it is pretty hard to get around. What do you envision are the steps needed to get Oxfordites out of their cars?
Wait, I think I know the answer to this - Drunken street shenanigans?
Quote from: garbon on October 14, 2020, 09:28:23 AMAnd yet, without a car, unless you live in the city centre, it is pretty hard to get around. What do you envision are the steps needed to get Oxfordites out of their cars?
Vastly improved public transport, better biking and walking infrastructure, no cars in the city core (beyond the few pedestrianised streets I know about) and possibly something like that Belgian city did so you can't drive from part x of the city to part y directly, instead you have to go via the ring road.
(I hate Oxford though <_<)
Quote from: Tyr on October 14, 2020, 08:24:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 14, 2020, 07:58:00 AM
Okay, I'm confused by Tyr's county/city thing.
America throws around the title of city willy nilly. Practically any settlement can be a city. If its a strip of land full of farms and scattered clusters of houses then it isn't a city in my book.
I saw this kind of thing a lot in Japan. There's been a huge trend, especially this century, to merge towns and villages into "cities" for ease of administration despite them really just being a collection of towns scattered over hundreds of square kilometers. Perhaps more famously China has also done that a lot in modern times, effectively just counting a city as a non agricultural county.
When we are comparing cities in the US and in Europe we should try to compare like with like, comparing the true cities of each rather than semi rural areas.
What American cities do you consider farms?
Quote from: Razgovory on October 14, 2020, 09:43:37 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 14, 2020, 08:24:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 14, 2020, 07:58:00 AM
Okay, I'm confused by Tyr's county/city thing.
America throws around the title of city willy nilly. Practically any settlement can be a city. If its a strip of land full of farms and scattered clusters of houses then it isn't a city in my book.
I saw this kind of thing a lot in Japan. There's been a huge trend, especially this century, to merge towns and villages into "cities" for ease of administration despite them really just being a collection of towns scattered over hundreds of square kilometers. Perhaps more famously China has also done that a lot in modern times, effectively just counting a city as a non agricultural county.
When we are comparing cities in the US and in Europe we should try to compare like with like, comparing the true cities of each rather than semi rural areas.
What American cities do you consider farms?
Denver and Phoenix were the two you mentioned.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 14, 2020, 09:36:39 AM
Vastly improved public transport, better biking and walking infrastructure, no cars in the city core (beyond the few pedestrianised streets I know about) and possibly something like that Belgian city did so you can't drive from part x of the city to part y directly, instead you have to go via the ring road.
Okay so what does improved public transport look like? More frequent busses? Other forms of transport? What happens when you want to move bulky items (like when I was told off by ticket checker on DLR for moving a dining chair)?
While pathways might encourage biking, we also have to recognise that not everyone will want to bike about and that climate may also further dampen enthusiasm. While walking paths might make journeys more pleasant, that won't really lower the amount of time it takes to walk from point A to point Z. It'll still be quite a trek, if you aren't living in the city centre.
How would the ring road change things? Wouldn't a person not in city centre still drive their car to closest location and then exit to visit the city centre? I can see how that makes city centre nicer (no cars), that doesn't really solve much of the problem of logistics of getting around.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 14, 2020, 09:36:39 AM
(I hate Oxford though <_<)
Even the places you hate would need to be factored into your carless eutopia.
Quote from: Tyr on October 13, 2020, 03:28:41 PM
Rather more (on my phone so very bleh)
Everyone is 10 minutes from a station. Mixture of express and local trains to give full access to everyone whilst at the same time minimising how long it takes to travel long distances.
And hey. The best house in the world is no good if it takes you forever to get there and there's no town centre to go to for leisure time.
Dude your entire country + Ireland fits inside one of our states with room to spare. You live in "compact" areas because you literally have to. We have millions of square miles that allow us to have space to breathe. Yes, it requires transportation to make that happen, but in most of the major urban centers and suburbs, there is public transit. It's just if you want to go outside those areas, you need a vehicle. Once you have a vehicle, the convenience is hard to get rid of.
It's a very different mindset. I regularly "day trip" three hours one way to events on a Saturday. That's unconscionable to most Brits I've met. My parents lived six hours from me, and I drove there at least once a month when my kids were little. That's like you driving from London to Edinburough. Mind, I'm from the Midwest, and I'm now learning that our driving long distances isn't so common on the West Coast, but we also don't have mountains to deal with.
Quote from: garbon on October 14, 2020, 10:01:56 AM
Okay so what does improved public transport look like? More frequent busses? Other forms of transport? What happens when you want to move bulky items (like when I was told off by ticket checker on DLR for moving a dining chair)?
Don't know - it'll vary from place to place I imagine.
QuoteWhile pathways might encourage biking, we also have to recognise that not everyone will want to bike about and that climate may also further dampen enthusiasm.
I mean the most cycling heavy and friendly countries I know of are Denmark and the Netherlands which are not particularly different from our climate. There's loads of polling that people want to cycle but the biggest obstacle is fear. Creating cycling infrastructure like they have in other European countries, re-prioritising our street spaces from the tonnes of metal trundling through to the humans makes a big difference. As I say we can see this in the Netherlands and Denmark - their cities looked like ours in the 60s and the 70s but they've made choices over the last 30-40 years to shift the focus and now they don't look like ours and they encourage a lot of people to cycle instead. (I think this was actually caused by the number of kids being hit by cars who were playing in streets - in the UK it led to campaigns to reduce the speed limit, but there they decided to focus on removing cars from a lot of streets).
QuoteHow would the ring road change things? Wouldn't a person not in city centre still drive their car to closest location and then exit to visit the city centre? I can see how that makes city centre nicer (no cars), that doesn't really solve much of the problem of logistics of getting around.
As I say no cars in the city centre. The ring road thing is different. It's from a Belgian city. Basically if you imagine you've got a city with a ring road and a number of neighbourhoods around the centre. You cannot drive directly from neighbourhood A to neighbourhood B (which are next to each other) on any route you want. You basically have to go out of neighbourhood A onto the ring road, along and then into neighbourhood B. It's more a traffic control measure because you basically funnel people onto a few entry/exit points but the inconvenience also makes people consider if they really need to use the car for the trip and reduces the number of journeys.
I also think this helps address a particular new issue in cities which has been created by Google Maps/Apple Maps/Tom Tom etc. In UK cities the number of journeys on main roads has decreased over the last few years, the number on side roads and residential roads has hugely increased because the GPS has, rightly, identified that it can be quicker to go along these residential roads which aren't really meant for through-traffic than sitting on the main road. I think that's changed our relationship with space in a really unhelpful way (there are a couple of residential streets near me that I can think of that are getting really busy with just Ubers etc on the sat-nav going to somewhere else). I think we should try and funnel cars back onto the main roads and make it unpleasant for them.
Quote
Even the places you hate would need to be factored into your carless eutopia.
Maybe. I'd happily concrete over most of the South-EAst :Embarrass:
Quote from: Tyr on October 13, 2020, 04:43:07 PM
That's not a city you're talking about, it's a county.
Horses were a few steps behind cars. They were already on the way out with trams.
In actual cities not many people bar the very wealthy had a horse (and carriage and driver) in the way people have a car today.
That's absolute bunk. First, it's a city in the US. Second, horses and cars shared the streets for at least two decades. And finally, horses were not a rich man's toy. They were a tool and most middle-class and up people had one, though maybe not specifically with a carriage. Merchants most definitely had a horse and wagon.
Tyr, hon, I say this with all of the love in the world, but the UK is not the whole world. What is "truth" there doesn't necessarily follow to be "truth" everywhere.
Cycling as a solution isn't going to work universally - it certainly would be a tough sell here in Toronto, because of climate. For several months every year, cycling is not very appealing to the average person, to put it mildly.
The fact that certain solutions work in the Netherlands may have a lot to do with its geographic features (relatively compact, flat, weather not too extreme). The Netherlands has a population of 17 million fitted into 33k square km, mostly very flat; my province of Ontario has a population of 14.5 million fitted into an area of over 1 million square km, and much less flat, with ferocious winter weather - though admittedly, the northern portion of that (the largest portion) is mostly uninhabited wilderness. Though these are just examples, any proposed transportation solution has got to take such differences into account.
Portland has had a "Bike First" mentality for over a decade now. They've actively advocated for biking, invested in public transit (that has ample bike racks, etc), and created tons of bike lanes throughout the city. They have also refused to widen the highways or build new ones, despite the population growth of 13.5% going on right now, and the extension of the Portland metro area to now be nearly down to Salem (an hour and a half's drive from downtown Portland).
Yes, we have plenty of people on bicycles, but they are competing with all of the additional cars that have nowhere to go given the lack of highways. There are constant vehicle/bicycle collisions, and a bicyclist actually shot a driver last summer for cutting him off in a cycling lane. None of this counts the fact that it rains nine months out of the year here.
In theory, it all works great. The American mindset, in general, isn't so keen on it, though.
Quote from: Malthus on October 14, 2020, 10:31:35 AM
Cycling as a solution isn't going to work universally - it certainly would be a tough sell here in Toronto, because of climate. For several months every year, cycling is not very appealing to the average person, to put it mildly.
The fact that certain solutions work in the Netherlands may have a lot to do with its geographic features (relatively compact, flat, weather not too extreme). The Netherlands has a population of 17 million fitted into 33k square km, mostly very flat; my province of Ontario has a population of 14.5 million fitted into an area of over 1 million square km, and much less flat, with ferocious winter weather - though admittedly, the northern portion of that (the largest portion) is mostly uninhabited wilderness. Though these are just examples, any proposed transportation solution has got to take such differences into account.
The Dutchies I know who moved to Canada (Toronto and Ottawa) never got a car and are happily cycling everywhere year round :P
Edit: although I suspect they'll use the excellent public transport as well.
Quote from: Maladict on October 14, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 14, 2020, 10:31:35 AM
Cycling as a solution isn't going to work universally - it certainly would be a tough sell here in Toronto, because of climate. For several months every year, cycling is not very appealing to the average person, to put it mildly.
The fact that certain solutions work in the Netherlands may have a lot to do with its geographic features (relatively compact, flat, weather not too extreme). The Netherlands has a population of 17 million fitted into 33k square km, mostly very flat; my province of Ontario has a population of 14.5 million fitted into an area of over 1 million square km, and much less flat, with ferocious winter weather - though admittedly, the northern portion of that (the largest portion) is mostly uninhabited wilderness. Though these are just examples, any proposed transportation solution has got to take such differences into account.
The Dutchies I know who moved to Canada (Toronto and Ottawa) never got a car and are happily cycling everywhere year round :P
I'm not a driver, but i hate any of your friends that moved to toronto :P
Quote from: HVC on October 14, 2020, 10:40:32 AM
Quote from: Maladict on October 14, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 14, 2020, 10:31:35 AM
Cycling as a solution isn't going to work universally - it certainly would be a tough sell here in Toronto, because of climate. For several months every year, cycling is not very appealing to the average person, to put it mildly.
The fact that certain solutions work in the Netherlands may have a lot to do with its geographic features (relatively compact, flat, weather not too extreme). The Netherlands has a population of 17 million fitted into 33k square km, mostly very flat; my province of Ontario has a population of 14.5 million fitted into an area of over 1 million square km, and much less flat, with ferocious winter weather - though admittedly, the northern portion of that (the largest portion) is mostly uninhabited wilderness. Though these are just examples, any proposed transportation solution has got to take such differences into account.
The Dutchies I know who moved to Canada (Toronto and Ottawa) never got a car and are happily cycling everywhere year round :P
I'm not a driver, but i hate any of your friends that moved to toronto :P
:lol:
Quote from: Malthus on October 14, 2020, 10:31:35 AMThe fact that certain solutions work in the Netherlands may have a lot to do with its geographic features (relatively compact, flat, weather not too extreme). The Netherlands has a population of 17 million fitted into 33k square km, mostly very flat; my province of Ontario has a population of 14.5 million fitted into an area of over 1 million square km, and much less flat, with ferocious winter weather - though admittedly, the northern portion of that (the largest portion) is mostly uninhabited wilderness. Though these are just examples, any proposed transportation solution has got to take such differences into account.
Absolutely - and I think it's really important for public transport too. I am not saying everywhere can or should try to become the Netherlands. My point is the Netherlands is the result of political choices and everywhere can make political choices. There is nothing natural about people relying on cars (in most of the world - over 50% of the world now lives in "urban areas"), there's also nothing natural about the Dutch or the Danes cycling. They are products of our society not some sort of biological imperative, so we can shift them and change them.
Sheilbh, you were probably thinking about Ghent. I looked it up because it sounded familiar, they probably took their cue from my old town of Groningen :wub:
In the 70s the city council implemented one way streets overnight, without warning. The roughly circular city centre was divided into four parts, with no possible connection between them for cars. So cars had to go outside the city centre, drive around the city and back in. It's literally faster to walk. Nobody in their right mind takes their car into the city anymore, unless they live there.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 14, 2020, 10:46:13 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 14, 2020, 10:31:35 AMThe fact that certain solutions work in the Netherlands may have a lot to do with its geographic features (relatively compact, flat, weather not too extreme). The Netherlands has a population of 17 million fitted into 33k square km, mostly very flat; my province of Ontario has a population of 14.5 million fitted into an area of over 1 million square km, and much less flat, with ferocious winter weather - though admittedly, the northern portion of that (the largest portion) is mostly uninhabited wilderness. Though these are just examples, any proposed transportation solution has got to take such differences into account.
Absolutely - and I think it's really important for public transport too. I am not saying everywhere can or should try to become the Netherlands. My point is the Netherlands is the result of political choices and everywhere can make political choices. There is nothing natural about people relying on cars (in most of the world - over 50% of the world now lives in "urban areas"), there's also nothing natural about the Dutch or the Danes cycling. They are products of our society not some sort of biological imperative, so we can shift them and change them.
If you want to effect real change, you need to be realistic about what you can actually achieve. Nothing you've suggested so far suggests anything remotely like a carless society except for perhaps residents of city centres (many of whom already don't have cars).
Quote from: Tyr on October 14, 2020, 09:54:29 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 14, 2020, 09:43:37 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 14, 2020, 08:24:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 14, 2020, 07:58:00 AM
Okay, I'm confused by Tyr's county/city thing.
America throws around the title of city willy nilly. Practically any settlement can be a city. If its a strip of land full of farms and scattered clusters of houses then it isn't a city in my book.
I saw this kind of thing a lot in Japan. There's been a huge trend, especially this century, to merge towns and villages into "cities" for ease of administration despite them really just being a collection of towns scattered over hundreds of square kilometers. Perhaps more famously China has also done that a lot in modern times, effectively just counting a city as a non agricultural county.
When we are comparing cities in the US and in Europe we should try to compare like with like, comparing the true cities of each rather than semi rural areas.
What American cities do you consider farms?
Denver and Phoenix were the two you mentioned.
Well okay...
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 14, 2020, 10:46:13 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 14, 2020, 10:31:35 AMThe fact that certain solutions work in the Netherlands may have a lot to do with its geographic features (relatively compact, flat, weather not too extreme). The Netherlands has a population of 17 million fitted into 33k square km, mostly very flat; my province of Ontario has a population of 14.5 million fitted into an area of over 1 million square km, and much less flat, with ferocious winter weather - though admittedly, the northern portion of that (the largest portion) is mostly uninhabited wilderness. Though these are just examples, any proposed transportation solution has got to take such differences into account.
Absolutely - and I think it's really important for public transport too. I am not saying everywhere can or should try to become the Netherlands. My point is the Netherlands is the result of political choices and everywhere can make political choices. There is nothing natural about people relying on cars (in most of the world - over 50% of the world now lives in "urban areas"), there's also nothing natural about the Dutch or the Danes cycling. They are products of our society not some sort of biological imperative, so we can shift them and change them.
I'm also uncertain about this statement given it must then cover many areas where cars are needed. :P
Quote from: Razgovory on October 14, 2020, 11:00:57 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 14, 2020, 09:54:29 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 14, 2020, 09:43:37 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 14, 2020, 08:24:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 14, 2020, 07:58:00 AM
Okay, I'm confused by Tyr's county/city thing.
America throws around the title of city willy nilly. Practically any settlement can be a city. If its a strip of land full of farms and scattered clusters of houses then it isn't a city in my book.
I saw this kind of thing a lot in Japan. There's been a huge trend, especially this century, to merge towns and villages into "cities" for ease of administration despite them really just being a collection of towns scattered over hundreds of square kilometers. Perhaps more famously China has also done that a lot in modern times, effectively just counting a city as a non agricultural county.
When we are comparing cities in the US and in Europe we should try to compare like with like, comparing the true cities of each rather than semi rural areas.
What American cities do you consider farms?
Denver and Phoenix were the two you mentioned.
Well okay...
Give up, Raz. Tyr clearly has no idea what he's talking about.
Quote from: garbon on October 14, 2020, 11:00:37 AM
If you want to effect real change, you need to be realistic about what you can actually achieve. Nothing you've suggested so far suggests anything remotely like a carless society except for perhaps residents of city centres (many of whom already don't have cars).
You asked about a city :P Though the core of massively improved public transport is ever-present.
If you want to effect real change you also need to have a goal. And as I say there's wider social issues at play. So I think we should be encouraging density, I think we should be moving to home working as much as possible and encourage people to change the places and the way they live (as it was before towns when people who worked in the country lived in the country, if you didn't you lived in the town). But there should also be inconveniences in using a car, you know a preferential option for public transport/non-car transport.
I always think of this when I see certain senior people at my firm, in London, living miles out of town in a lovely restored farmhouse. That should be inconvenient unless you're a literal farmer (ignoring the obvious risk of murder in the night - "You look at these scattered houses and you are impressed by their special beauty. I look at them and the only thought which comes to me is the feeling of their isolation and of the impunity with which crime may be committed there.")
Quote from: garbon on October 14, 2020, 11:01:40 AM
I'm also uncertain about this statement given it must then cover many areas where cars are needed. :P
I'm uncertain too. It's some dodgy UN stat that I have no idea who's calculated, but let's pretend it's true :P
There's estimated to be around 1.5 billion vehicles in the world (and there's what, 7.5 billion people in the world), which includes trucks and buses etc (again - let's pretend these are accurate rather than the first result I found on Google).
I get there are reasons why the US and Canada and Australia are complicated and difficult to move away from cars. But we can't afford, globally, to have society that car-centric. And for what it's worth the countries with the most cars per capita include the US, but they also include Finland, Luxembourg, Greece, Malta, Austria, Malaysia - we can do better.
Quote from: Maladict on October 14, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 14, 2020, 10:31:35 AM
Cycling as a solution isn't going to work universally - it certainly would be a tough sell here in Toronto, because of climate. For several months every year, cycling is not very appealing to the average person, to put it mildly.
The fact that certain solutions work in the Netherlands may have a lot to do with its geographic features (relatively compact, flat, weather not too extreme). The Netherlands has a population of 17 million fitted into 33k square km, mostly very flat; my province of Ontario has a population of 14.5 million fitted into an area of over 1 million square km, and much less flat, with ferocious winter weather - though admittedly, the northern portion of that (the largest portion) is mostly uninhabited wilderness. Though these are just examples, any proposed transportation solution has got to take such differences into account.
The Dutchies I know who moved to Canada (Toronto and Ottawa) never got a car and are happily cycling everywhere year round :P
Edit: although I suspect they'll use the excellent public transport as well.
It is possible, but hardly attractive for ordinary folks, to bicycle all year round in Toronto and Ottawa.
Bicycling isn't very attractive as an option for the average person when it is -30 Celsius, and the roads are covered with a slurry of salt and ice. Some hearty souls do it nonetheless.
Quote from: merithyn on October 14, 2020, 10:12:18 AM
Dude your entire country + Ireland fits inside one of our states with room to spare. You live in "compact" areas because you literally have to. We have millions of square miles that allow us to have space to breathe. Yes, it requires transportation to make that happen, but in most of the major urban centers and suburbs, there is public transit. It's just if you want to go outside those areas, you need a vehicle. Once you have a vehicle, the convenience is hard to get rid of.
It's a very different mindset. I regularly "day trip" three hours one way to events on a Saturday. That's unconscionable to most Brits I've met. My parents lived six hours from me, and I drove there at least once a month when my kids were little. That's like you driving from London to Edinburough. Mind, I'm from the Midwest, and I'm now learning that our driving long distances isn't so common on the West Coast, but we also don't have mountains to deal with.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
That's the entire discussion here. We all know how things are in America. However for the sake of the world (and it will be better for American people too) steps need to be taken to change this.
In Europe too, that was the basis of the discussion. But America being big is no excuse for it not applying there also.
Quote from: merithyn on October 14, 2020, 10:22:19 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 13, 2020, 04:43:07 PM
That's not a city you're talking about, it's a county.
Horses were a few steps behind cars. They were already on the way out with trams.
In actual cities not many people bar the very wealthy had a horse (and carriage and driver) in the way people have a car today.
That's absolute bunk. First, it's a city in the US. Second, horses and cars shared the streets for at least two decades. And finally, horses were not a rich man's toy. They were a tool and most middle-class and up people had one, though maybe not specifically with a carriage. Merchants most definitely had a horse and wagon.
And how many people ran a business?
The vast majority of city dwellers did not have a horse, this is a fact.
They got around on foot and then as technology and development picked up train and tram.
There's some interesting maps out there which show the development in city sizes over the years neatly mapping to this.
It was not as presented that everyone had a horse then simply traded it in for a car.
Quote
Tyr, hon, I say this with all of the love in the world, but the UK is not the whole world. What is "truth" there doesn't necessarily follow to be "truth" everywhere.
Interesting you're all jumping to this assumption to defend the US.
Just because something is a huge problem in America it doesn't mean Britain is perfect. More than one country can be crap.
On this America is a fair bit worse, but there's also a hell of a lot to criticise Britain about.
Here is a few photos of New York city in the late 19th century.
(https://i.imgur.com/As4fb7E.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pBQghhN.png)
That is an enormous amount of horse shit.
Just think about biking through all that horse shit. :x
L.
I think you're hinting towards the Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894 here.
This alas is a myth.
The only places it became remotely true were in huge cities like NYC and London where you had sizable numbers of wealthy people travelling in the centre by taxi carriage, and farms and industries that needed manure very remote. Usually horse manure effectively sorted itself out with there being people more than willing to clean it up to sell it on. In these metropolitan areas however it became an actual issue they had to pay attention to and pay someone to clean- quite a shock worthy of minor comment to people of the time but not a big deal by modern standards.
Thats the thing thats really hard to grasp when it comes to understanding history and even other cultures in the here and now.
They aren't just the same but different. They are fundamentally different at the core.
As mentioned when I moved to Japan the hardest things to grasp weren't the flashy surface elements of cultural difference- different language, bowing, take off your shoes or death, etc...
It was the less tangible fundamental differences in outlook. Such as the massive emphasis on conformity and following the rules even in school and crap jobs, and the car focussed approach to urban development and the 'driving everywhere is the only way' mindset that came from that.
Its such a change in mindset that is needed in the world. Not simply swapping petrol cars for electric ones. We need to rethink how we setup our civilization.
Its a problem I've encountered a lot, people who just can't grasp another way to live than a car focussed world (including in the UK). But that's what we're looking at. The current state of affairs is very much an aberration, not the way things always must be.
This is a decent article on the whole thing-
http://nautil.us/issue/7/waste/did-cars-save-our-cities-from-horses
Which cities that you have lived in do you consider to be "American style?"
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 14, 2020, 11:13:06 AM
You asked about a city :P Though the core of massively improved public transport is ever-present.
Yes, but we know not every lives in the city centre, so unless steps are taking to easily integrate travel for everyone inside the city, it doesn't seem workable. For example, I wouldn't count Shooter's Hill as in a city centre. Currently its only transport links are walking to a bus to DLR. And then going home walking back up said hill. From what I've seen the majority of residents seem to have a car. I'm not sure what system you can devise that would make people happy to give up their cars. And this is in London which I just saw in the Guardian was named the 5th most walkable city in the world.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 14, 2020, 11:13:06 AM
If you want to effect real change you also need to have a goal. And as I say there's wider social issues at play. So I think we should be encouraging density, I think we should be moving to home working as much as possible and encourage people to change the places and the way they live (as it was before towns when people who worked in the country lived in the country, if you didn't you lived in the town). But there should also be inconveniences in using a car, you know a preferential option for public transport/non-car transport.
I always think of this when I see certain senior people at my firm, in London, living miles out of town in a lovely restored farmhouse. That should be inconvenient unless you're a literal farmer (ignoring the obvious risk of murder in the night - "You look at these scattered houses and you are impressed by their special beauty. I look at them and the only thought which comes to me is the feeling of their isolation and of the impunity with which crime may be committed there.")
Should we be encouraging density? After all, aren't we right now in an era where the chance of repeated global pandemics has risen up...and won't your proposed density make us more vulnerable?
I understand the notion that we should be phasing out petroleum fueled vehicles but not sure why it is preferable for us all to be bunched on top of one another.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 15, 2020, 03:19:14 AM
Which cities that you have lived in do you consider to be "American style?"
Kofu, Hanyu.
Also, I've never lived in them but we have places which veer that way around here too. Washington (the original) is pretty horrific.
I am now too old to consider moving there (my pension will be low enough even without trying to start assembling it from scratch aged 40) but the one thing still attracts me in the US is all that open space. Must be great. Here in Europe you have to choose between having current first world comforts or not living in an ant farm.
BTW recently I was looking at the map around in our general area and realised that next to a town of 14 000 people, there's a golf course that's literally takes at least as much space as the town itself. I have found that seriously fucked up.
America has great space. Probably the greatest space ever.
The thing with more space is you just fill it up with crap.
Quote from: Maladict on October 15, 2020, 04:40:46 AM
The thing with more space is you just fill it up with crap.
:hmm:
Quote from: garbon on October 15, 2020, 03:24:30 AM
Yes, but we know not every lives in the city centre, so unless steps are taking to easily integrate travel for everyone inside the city, it doesn't seem workable. For example, I wouldn't count Shooter's Hill as in a city centre. Currently its only transport links are walking to a bus to DLR. And then going home walking back up said hill. From what I've seen the majority of residents seem to have a car. I'm not sure what system you can devise that would make people happy to give up their cars. And this is in London which I just saw in the Guardian was named the 5th most walkable city in the world.
That's where the inconvenient point comes in. Restrict where cars can go in the cities make them more expensive.
QuoteShould we be encouraging density? After all, aren't we right now in an era where the chance of repeated global pandemics has risen up...and won't your proposed density make us more vulnerable?
Yeah - I think we can deal with global pandemics. We have handled this badly in the West (even "good" countries like Germany have failed in comparison with South Korea and Japan. The only difference I can see in how successful countries have been with managing the response to this is experience of pandemics. So some of the densest cities in the world in East Asia are functioning fine despite the pandemic. I could be wrong but I imagine at the next pandemic (if it's within the next, say, 30 years) we'll handle it better because we'll have the sort of cultural memory of how to respond (as with SARS) and automatically start distancing etc.
But I think you have to balance that risks of density with the impact we have on the environment and climate.
QuoteI understand the notion that we should be phasing out petroleum fueled vehicles but not sure why it is preferable for us all to be bunched on top of one another.
The fuel is part of it but the amount of carbon in producing cars is also very high. At the minute environmentally you are always better off buying a used, petrol using, really unhealthy car than buying a new one whether electronic or clean petrol or whatever.
Tamas, if you want to see vast swathes of open space, come visit central Spain, you won't be dissapointed. :lol:
There's swathes of open space in Scotland too - I used to live in part of it and it is lovely.
Although I don't know if I'd say you really had access to "current first world comforts". We were 2-3 hours from the nearest cinema or big shops for example :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 15, 2020, 04:56:20 AM
That's where the inconvenient point comes in. Restrict where cars can go in the cities make them more expensive.
Should people then ideally not live in Shooter's Hill? Should there a be a retrenchment of where we reside?
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 15, 2020, 04:56:20 AM
Yeah - I think we can deal with global pandemics. We have handled this badly in the West (even "good" countries like Germany have failed in comparison with South Korea and Japan. The only difference I can see in how successful countries have been with managing the response to this is experience of pandemics. So some of the densest cities in the world in East Asia are functioning fine despite the pandemic. I could be wrong but I imagine at the next pandemic (if it's within the next, say, 30 years) we'll handle it better because we'll have the sort of cultural memory of how to respond (as with SARS) and automatically start distancing etc.
But I think you have to balance that risks of density with the impact we have on the environment and climate.
Feels a bit sunny, optimistic on how we'll change our responses - particularly at a time that we continue to fail here. But I guess when you are advocating a radical restructuring of society, that's just one more insignificant detail. ;)
Note, pandemics aren't the only concern about cities. As per WHO:
https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/88/4/10-010410/en/#:~:text=Health%20challenges%20particularly%20evident%20in,the%20risks%20associated%20with%20disease
QuoteHealth challenges particularly evident in cities relate to water, environment, violence and injury, noncommunicable diseases (cardiovascular diseases, cancers, diabetes and chronic respiratory diseases), unhealthy diets and physical inactivity, harmful use of alcohol as well as the risks associated with disease outbreaks. City living and its increased pressures of mass marketing, availability of unhealthy food choices and accessibility to automation and transport all have an effect on lifestyle that directly affect health.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 15, 2020, 04:56:20 AM
The fuel is part of it but the amount of carbon in producing cars is also very high. At the minute environmentally you are always better off buying a used, petrol using, really unhealthy car than buying a new one whether electronic or clean petrol or whatever.
Got it. So idea is that we all move to higher density areas to limit mass production?
Quote from: garbon on October 15, 2020, 05:07:56 AM
Should people then ideally not live in Shooter's Hill? Should there a be a retrenchment of where we reside?
Yeah if it's an issue for them that the public transport isn't sufficient. I live in an area with no tube or DLR and find the buses are enough because they're pretty regular.
But yeah there should be a change in where we live - as I say we've lived without cars before. People lived in the towns or cities they worked in, and the people who lived in the countryside either needed to for work or because they were the ultra-rich with country houses/chateaus. I don't see an issue with that and with home working it could even be easier to live in different towns/cities or country. And we can do urban areas (including towns) better than we could then.
QuoteFeels a bit sunny, optimistic on how we'll change our responses - particularly at a time that we continue to fail here. But I guess when you are advocating a radical restructuring of society, that's just one more insignificant detail. ;)
:lol: I am an optimist. But I do think we'll socially be better at handling the next pandemic because we'll have had recent experience and I think with the correct aims we can adjust our way of living in a way that let's us live without destroying the climate :blush:
And for what it's worth I think climate is likely to cause a radical restructuring of society - the question is do we try and actively shape it or do we just react to the consequences.
QuoteNote, pandemics aren't the only concern about cities. As per WHO:
None of those issues are insurmountable though.
QuoteGot it. So idea is that we all move to higher density areas to limit mass production?
And other environmental costs of low density - for example we could move to more district heating, we would have less distribution etc.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 15, 2020, 05:30:14 AM
Yeah if it's an issue for them that the public transport isn't sufficient. I live in an area with no tube or DLR and find the buses are enough because they're pretty regular.
So you are willing to recognise that inconveniences you are willing to suffer may not be so easily accepted in others? For myself access to a metro stop is key and why I'd not consider living somewhere like Shooter's Hill absent a car.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 15, 2020, 05:30:14 AM
But yeah there should be a change in where we live - as I say we've lived without cars before. People lived in the towns or cities they worked in, and the people who lived in the countryside either needed to for work or because they were the ultra-rich with country houses/chateaus. I don't see an issue with that and with home working it could even be easier to live in different towns/cities or country. And we can do urban areas (including towns) better than we could then.
I don't quite get this. Humans also lived without all the electric conveniences we have now. Why not push for a severe reduction/ban on those?
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 15, 2020, 05:30:14 AM
:lol: I am an optimist. But I do think we'll socially be better at handling the next pandemic because we'll have had recent experience and I think with the correct aims we can adjust our way of living in a way that let's us live without destroying the climate :blush:
And for what it's worth I think climate is likely to cause a radical restructuring of society - the question is do we try and actively shape it or do we just react to the consequences.
I guess I'm not convinced that private transport is the key issue / forcing everyone to cram together is the best solution. After all, if we look at say NYC and climate change, that's actually a place people should likely flee given expected changes in water levels.
And I'm not sure that climate change would be enough of a reason for people to be willing to accept radical changes in how they currently live.
Quote from: garbon on October 15, 2020, 05:54:30 AM
So you are willing to recognise that inconveniences you are willing to suffer may not be so easily accepted in others? For myself access to a metro stop is key and why I'd not consider living somewhere like Shooter's Hill absent a car.
To be honest I don't find it inconvenient. It hadn't occurred to me that it was - but I get that it's why the area is a little bit cheaper. But as I say as long as there are regular buses or alternatives.
And part of that is probably that I didn't use the tube very much because where I previously lived it was always rammed so I'd look at the more comfortable alternatives - train/overground, buses etc. We measure inconvenience against what we know. And we give priority to convenience over everything else. I think one of the challenges with every change we've made for environmental reasons is that it is normally a move away from convenience - whether it's doing recycling or not using a plane for short trips etc. But I think we are nibbling at the edges and the big issues are the way we live and the way we travel on a day-to-day basis.
In a way I have less of an issue with the people and communities who genuinely need a car and use it every day. But there's nothing more wasteful than a new-ish car that is used maybe every weekend or every other weekend. The sort of sunk environmental costs of making that car are enormous, even ignoring the impact every time it's used. But that it's just for the purpose of pottering about is an issue.
QuoteI don't quite get this. Humans also lived without all the electric conveniences we have now. Why not push for a severe reduction/ban on those?
Yeah - but the impact of electricity is lower environmentally, especially now in the UK. But I agree in terms of general products we own in the home we should be encouraging people to be mindful of what they purchase etc.
QuoteI guess I'm not convinced that private transport is the key issue / forcing everyone to cram together is the best solution. After all, if we look at say NYC and climate change, that's actually a place people should likely flee given expected changes in water levels.
The reason I flag private transport is in a European context it's the only bit of the climate pie that is still growing (this includes manufacture of those cars). The carbon emitted by residential energy, industry, energy production itself etc are shrinking - that's a good thing. Cars are still growing and as you have all pointed out we can't expect that to shrink without changing the way we live.
But also more broadly as I say there are large swathes of the world where cars are not the norm and I don't think we could deal with the impact of the rest of the world developing in the way Europe and America have - that level of car ownership would be disastrous environmentally. But we caused this issue, we're the rich bits of the world that can afford to try new things and I think because of that we have a responsibility to work out what the alternatives are.
QuoteAnd I'm not sure that climate change would be enough of a reason for people to be willing to accept radical changes in how they currently live.
I agree at this stage. But my view is we either have radical changes in how we live because of climate change, or we try to make them now to avert that.
The key challenge will be dealing with the countryside.
Taxing cars to hell and making decent public transport is easy enough for those living around cities and for the rich with their country estates, but there are plenty of normal people who live out in the Highlands et al.
I can't really think of a way to handle this fairly as it does seem you'd need some kind of subsidy in place for country-dwellers to get the necessary car and avoid unnecessarily enforcing a rule whereby if you're not rich you have to move to an urban area (though past government certainly have pushed for this in the north east and encouraging it is wise), but at the same time you don't want to subsidise wealthy people who want to move out of the city.
On the rest of the world wanting western lifestyles....Yeah. Thats a big problem for sure. In much of the world cars are a status symbol. At university in Sweden, in a very bikey city, an Iranian classmate refused to get a bike for the longest time as he insisted they were childrens toys and that as a grown man he couldn't be seen dead on one, it was a car or nothing.
In China too there's a huge push that you need to own property and a car to be considered a reputable adult- though there it is quite funny in that people will try to buy a flashy brand name car, but don't actually care about the quality, its showing people you have a Mercedes rather than having a Mercedes that matters. I've heard it said they also commonly have far smaller engines than elsewhere, as its just having the shell of the fancy car that matters, a tiny engine is no issue.
Quote from: Tyr on October 15, 2020, 06:31:13 AM
The key challenge will be dealing with the countryside.
Taxing cars to hell and making decent public transport is easy enough for those living around cities and for the rich with their country estates, but there are plenty of normal people who live out in the Highlands et al.
I can't really think of a way to handle this fairly as it does seem you'd need some kind of subsidy in place for country-dwellers to get the necessary car and avoid unnecessarily enforcing a rule whereby if you're not rich you have to move to an urban area (though past government certainly have pushed for this in the north east and encouraging it is wise), but at the same time you don't want to subsidise wealthy people who want to move out of the city.
I mean I think a large chunk of people in the Highlands are obviously ordinary but they also clearly need their personal transport for their jobs - you know I mean I went to a school which closed for extra holidays in autumn because of the number of kids working the harvest who would otherwise just be pulled out of school :lol:
But yeah the Highlands and Islands population density in US terms is somewhere between Nebraska and Idaho. And there needs to be some adjustment as I say for big empty places.
I mean what is more feasible? Phasing in electric cars or rebuilding an entire continent of cities?
Quote from: The Larch on October 15, 2020, 04:57:27 AM
Tamas, if you want to see vast swathes of open space, come visit central Spain, you won't be dissapointed. :lol:
Alentejo is not too bad in Portugal as well. ;)This mostly empty region is the lest Covid-afflicted region (cf. the map Sheilbh posted in another thread). :contract:
[spoiler]Really too hot in the summer though and it's not going to improve anytime soon.[/spoiler]
Didn't want to spoil Portuguese weather patterns?
Climate change could spoil them much more than I ever could. :P
Yes, Alentejo is hellish in summer.
Quote from: The Larch on October 15, 2020, 04:57:27 AM
Tamas, if you want to see vast swathes of open space, come visit central Spain, you won't be dissapointed. :lol:
If he wants REAL open space with a feeling of being alone in the world, he should have his car break down on December 24th on the road from Casper, Wyoming to Shoshoni, Wyoming. I almost guarantee he will not want to ever visit such vast swath of open space again.
Yeah try West Texas if you want vast open spaces hundreds of miles from civilization. Or Siberia if you want the cold version.
Try driving Highway 599 in Ontario to Pickle Lake ... 😄
Quote from: Valmy on October 15, 2020, 04:53:46 PM
I mean what is more feasible? Phasing in electric cars or rebuilding an entire continent of cities?
Neither/both.
There just isn't the availability of rare earths for replacing all our cars with electrics.
Quote from: Tyr on October 15, 2020, 06:45:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 15, 2020, 04:53:46 PM
I mean what is more feasible? Phasing in electric cars or rebuilding an entire continent of cities?
Neither/both.
There just isn't the availability of rare earths for replacing all our cars with electrics.
Yeah plus, as I say, you produce far-less carbon if you buy second-hand gas guzzlers than buying a new electric car given the manufacturing cost.
Which types of rare earths do electric engines require?
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 15, 2020, 06:47:03 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 15, 2020, 06:45:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 15, 2020, 04:53:46 PM
I mean what is more feasible? Phasing in electric cars or rebuilding an entire continent of cities?
Neither/both.
There just isn't the availability of rare earths for replacing all our cars with electrics.
Yeah plus, as I say, you produce far-less carbon if you buy second-hand gas guzzlers than buying a new electric car given the manufacturing cost.
But ripping down an entire continent of cities and rebuilding them to be more compact is carbon efficient?
Quote from: Valmy on October 15, 2020, 06:49:04 PM
But ripping down an entire continent of cities and rebuilding them to be more compact is carbon efficient?
Why would we have to rebuild as opposed to just build? And again it's not just about compactness or mega-cities.
But yeah it's a fair point. But it's also a point you could make about any infrastructure like developing train networks or even renewable energy. The point is those are all investments and infrastructure that in the long-terms enables lots of people to reduce their carbon footpring. Electric vehicles do the opposite because you're still relying on energy for an individuals transport, whether on a daily basis or just at the weekend. And as I say presumably we gradually phase to electric vehicles and so will a lot of the other 6 billion humans without cars which isn't sustainable - whereas developing public infrastructure and working out how to adjust our societies to live without cars is sustainable and probably a better export.
Quote from: Tyr on October 15, 2020, 03:14:47 AM
This is a decent article on the whole thing-
http://nautil.us/issue/7/waste/did-cars-save-our-cities-from-horses (http://nautil.us/issue/7/waste/did-cars-save-our-cities-from-horses)
What else you got?
Quote from: Valmy on October 15, 2020, 06:49:04 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 15, 2020, 06:47:03 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 15, 2020, 06:45:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 15, 2020, 04:53:46 PM
I mean what is more feasible? Phasing in electric cars or rebuilding an entire continent of cities?
Neither/both.
There just isn't the availability of rare earths for replacing all our cars with electrics.
Yeah plus, as I say, you produce far-less carbon if you buy second-hand gas guzzlers than buying a new electric car given the manufacturing cost.
But ripping down an entire continent of cities farms and rebuilding them to be more compact is carbon efficient?
Fixed your post to reflect that you and I actually live on farms.
Quote from: Tyr on October 15, 2020, 03:14:47 AM
This is a decent article on the whole thing-
http://nautil.us/issue/7/waste/did-cars-save-our-cities-from-horses
Interesting points and also the trams were a huge part of the early 20th century transport in the UK too. Basically every town over 20k had a tram service. They were largely replaced by buses but then those have been consistently cut back for decades (like the story of the Beeching cuts).
I once decided to walk to the nearest grocery store(roughly one kilometer away). All I bought was a gallon of milk and a jar of spaghetti sauce. It wasn't a pleasant return trip.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 16, 2020, 12:19:18 AM
I once decided to walk to the nearest grocery store(roughly one kilometer away). All I bought was a gallon of milk and a jar of spaghetti sauce. It wasn't a pleasant return trip.
Groceries are best done on a bike.
Quote from: Maladict on October 16, 2020, 03:00:41 AM
Groceries are best done on a bike.
No, that's not true. ;)
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 15, 2020, 07:02:11 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 15, 2020, 06:49:04 PM
But ripping down an entire continent of cities and rebuilding them to be more compact is carbon efficient?
Why would we have to rebuild as opposed to just build? And again it's not just about compactness or mega-cities.
Well we already have lots of places that have been built. I'm not sure how you change let's say Phoenix to be more compact/better connected without a combination of demolishing existing buildings and re-building elsewhere / tearing up things for transport infrastructure.
I'm not sure how you resolve something like my Massachusetts hometown without telling everyone they need to move out of their lightly populated areas and into more densely populated areas. Doing so will involve demolishing the now derelict areas and building new homes closer to transport links/hubs.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 16, 2020, 12:19:18 AM
I once decided to walk to the nearest grocery store(roughly one kilometer away). All I bought was a gallon of milk and a jar of spaghetti sauce. It wasn't a pleasant return trip.
Dunno about other countries, but over here, people sometimes use trolleys such as this for larger shopping trips:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61fa%2Bka39QL._AC_SY879_.jpg)
It used to be something only old people used, but I'm seeing more and more families using them.
Quote from: Syt on October 16, 2020, 03:14:28 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 16, 2020, 12:19:18 AM
I once decided to walk to the nearest grocery store(roughly one kilometer away). All I bought was a gallon of milk and a jar of spaghetti sauce. It wasn't a pleasant return trip.
Dunno about other countries, but over here, people sometimes use trolleys such as this for larger shopping trips:
It used to be something only old people used, but I'm seeing more and more families using them.
Yes, a granny cart.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 16, 2020, 12:19:18 AM
I once decided to walk to the nearest grocery store(roughly one kilometer away). All I bought was a gallon of milk and a jar of spaghetti sauce. It wasn't a pleasant return trip.
You need one of those old lady shopping carts :D
Edit and garbon beat me :(
I go shopping with a rucksack, it works much better than carrier bags and I don't get why more don't do this.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 15, 2020, 07:07:09 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 15, 2020, 03:14:47 AM
This is a decent article on the whole thing-
http://nautil.us/issue/7/waste/did-cars-save-our-cities-from-horses (http://nautil.us/issue/7/waste/did-cars-save-our-cities-from-horses)
What else you got?
eh?
Quote from: garbon on October 16, 2020, 03:19:39 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 16, 2020, 03:14:28 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 16, 2020, 12:19:18 AM
I once decided to walk to the nearest grocery store(roughly one kilometer away). All I bought was a gallon of milk and a jar of spaghetti sauce. It wasn't a pleasant return trip.
Dunno about other countries, but over here, people sometimes use trolleys such as this for larger shopping trips:
It used to be something only old people used, but I'm seeing more and more families using them.
Yes, a granny cart.
In Hungary I have heard it referenced as Hag Tank :D
I know it as Hackenporsche (heel Porsche).
Note the derisive nature of the nicknames. It is curious that old women can buy their groceries on foot while young healthy men need to use a car :hmm:
Quote from: Tyr on October 16, 2020, 04:18:16 AM
I go shopping with a rucksack, it works much better than carrier bags and I don't get why more don't do this.
Same - and if necessary take a shopping bag with me.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 16, 2020, 05:08:14 AM
Note the derisive nature of the nicknames. It is curious that old women can have to buy their groceries on foot while young healthy men need to can use a car :hmm:
FYPFY :P
I use a backpack plus cloth bags.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 16, 2020, 05:10:53 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 16, 2020, 04:18:16 AM
I go shopping with a rucksack, it works much better than carrier bags and I don't get why more don't do this.
Same - and if necessary take a shopping bag with me.
We would bring that as part of our armamenterium but that would be insufficient for carrying more than one person's groceries. ;)
Quote from: garbon on October 16, 2020, 05:29:32 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 16, 2020, 05:10:53 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 16, 2020, 04:18:16 AM
I go shopping with a rucksack, it works much better than carrier bags and I don't get why more don't do this.
Same - and if necessary take a shopping bag with me.
We would bring that as part of our armamenterium but that would be insufficient for carrying more than one person's groceries. ;)
Not if you both have a rucksack and bag :P
But I generally don't do a big shop (*urban bias intensifies*).
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 16, 2020, 05:08:14 AM
Note the derisive nature of the nicknames. It is curious that old women can buy their groceries on foot while young healthy men need to use a car :hmm:
Nobody buys their groceries on foot here.
I use rucksack and supplementary bag and, because we are a family of four, shop at least 5 times a week. It is time-consuming, perhaps 6 hours per week, but otoh there is about 20 miles per week of brisk walking which has health benefits.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 16, 2020, 05:43:13 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 16, 2020, 05:08:14 AM
Note the derisive nature of the nicknames. It is curious that old women can buy their groceries on foot while young healthy men need to use a car :hmm:
Nobody buys their groceries on foot here.
Very few here either; Lancashire is very car-oriented compared to the large cities of England.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 16, 2020, 05:41:11 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 16, 2020, 05:29:32 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 16, 2020, 05:10:53 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 16, 2020, 04:18:16 AM
I go shopping with a rucksack, it works much better than carrier bags and I don't get why more don't do this.
Same - and if necessary take a shopping bag with me.
We would bring that as part of our armamenterium but that would be insufficient for carrying more than one person's groceries. ;)
Not if you both have a rucksack and bag :P
But I generally don't do a big shop (*urban bias intensifies*).
I do because I don't find it all that fun to shop all the time and it makes it easier to plan meals/kitchen duties. I live near a Tesco though so in pre-COVID times, we'd just backpacks and multiple shopping bags for our walk over.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 16, 2020, 05:57:03 AM
Very few here either; Lancashire is very car-oriented compared to the large cities of England.
And to go back to Tyr's point - before the transition to buses (and their inevitable decline) - Preston used to have what looks to me like a decent tram system:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Preston_Corporation_Tramways.jpg)
Admittedly if there's mainly big box shops out of town this probably wouldn't work now.
Although I read an amazing piece in the FT about Walmart's broadly failed attempt at expanding in the UK (which terrified the other supermarkets when they arrived):
https://www.ft.com/content/b80f73e9-336d-49e0-980a-e17635e7cb26
Their crucial failing in my view:
Quote"Walmart's core model — of blowing the competition out of the water with massive price differential and huge out-of-town stores — never really got delivered," said one top executive in the grocery sector. "They misunderstood how hard opening big out-of-town shops is in the UK."
Prof Sparks said he believed Walmart "thought the planning system would open up, so they could expand like they did in the US. That didn't happen, so they had to buy something instead."
:lol: Expecting the planning system to "open up" is like the "????" step on the way to profit.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 16, 2020, 06:04:50 AM
Although I read an amazing piece in the FT about Walmart's broadly failed attempt at expanding in the UK (which terrified the other supermarkets when they arrived):
https://www.ft.com/content/b80f73e9-336d-49e0-980a-e17635e7cb26
Their crucial failing in my view:
Quote"Walmart's core model — of blowing the competition out of the water with massive price differential and huge out-of-town stores — never really got delivered," said one top executive in the grocery sector. "They misunderstood how hard opening big out-of-town shops is in the UK."
Prof Sparks said he believed Walmart "thought the planning system would open up, so they could expand like they did in the US. That didn't happen, so they had to buy something instead."
:lol: Expecting the planning system to "open up" is like the "????" step on the way to profit.
I can't read the article but is it really a failed invasion or more of a factor that doing business in the UK simply isn't worth it. After all, before recently selling it, they were running what was typically either the #2 or #3 largest grocery store (which also has same Walmart setup of superstores with non-grocery items) in the UK.
Fucking hell, expecting the British planning system to open up... These out of town shopping centres are already screwing us enough.
@Sheilbh - I think the problem for the trams may have been the increasing proportion of the population living in the suburbs. So the City of Preston has only 115k people, but the "Preston Built-Up area" has 315k. The network shown on the map would only serve about a quarter of that population; in addition the people further out are at lower population densities.
I would quite like it of course, as one of the termini is 50 yards from my house and I could be whisked about what I consider to be the interesting parts of the town at speed :cool:
In the 90s, Walmart tried their luck in Germany and gave up less than 10 years later. For one, their corporate culture (always be smiling, group calesthenics, ...) wasn't accepted. Their ethics rules (e.g. not being allowed to date fellow employees) was also debated at the time, as it was questionable in its legality, further tainting the picture. It also didn't help that in the highly competitive German discount store market they wanted to break in by selling goods under cost - which is illegal per German law. In the end they never got beyond a 3% market share.
I have a memory of being cheerfully greeted on entering an Asda store back when we lived in Suffolk. The trauma meant we had to switch to Tesco's of course :bowler:
Quote from: garbon on October 16, 2020, 06:11:41 AM
I can't read the article but is it really a failed invasion or more of a factor that doing business in the UK simply isn't worth it. After all, before recently selling it, they were running what was typically either the #2 or #3 largest grocery store (which also has same Walmart setup of superstores with non-grocery items) in the UK.
Yeah I think it is failed but making a multi-billion dollar purchase in a region and then trying (and struggling to sell it) to get out of the market because it isn't worth it is surely a type of failure too. Plus I think that's sort of true of all non-US markets for a lot of big US companies, I'm always surprised by this but in a previous job I remember hearing that Pepsi earn half their revenue in the US and even now when Walmart have very successful Asian brands, they still get 75% of their revenue in the US. They bought Asda over 20 years ago and made a real go of it - that was meant to be part of their ongoing European expansion in the 90s (I think they were also focusing on Germany) and European supermarket shares crashed the day it came out that Walmart were moving in.
The big issues that article noted was that while Asda was a really good brand fit, they have generally been one of the most affected by the competition from the German retailers which weren't expected in the late 90s - but basically the Asda brand was "we're the cheapest" and when Lidl and Aldi arrived that wasn't true anymore and they didn't really have as much of a brand identity as the other supermarkets. But also that basically Walmart/Asda were very committed to the big box out of town store, while Sainsbury's/Tesco etc pivoted to mini-stores in towns and cities like Tesco Metro and Tesco Express - and apparently these new convenience stores have been a big earner for those brands. Part of this was also that the competition regulator stopped Asda from buying Safeway (which was eventually bought by Morrisons). I also think that the UK retailers were ahead of the US on moving online, so Walmart in the US learned a lot from their UK operations but were behind initially.
I think they've generally given up on Europe because it's been more difficult than expected. But they've been trying to sell their stake in Asda for years and not able to find a buyer.
Quote from: Syt on October 16, 2020, 06:35:42 AM
In the 90s, Walmart tried their luck in Germany and gave up less than 10 years later. For one, their corporate culture (always be smiling, group calesthenics, ...) wasn't accepted. Their ethics rules (e.g. not being allowed to date fellow employees) was also debated at the time, as it was questionable in its legality, further tainting the picture. It also didn't help that in the highly competitive German discount store market they wanted to break in by selling goods under cost - which is illegal per German law. In the end they never got beyond a 3% market share.
:lol: Yeah apparently they tried to introduce I think they're called greeters in the UK but they were received with shock, incredulity and occasionally hostility in the UK :Embarrass:
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 16, 2020, 06:49:33 AM
Yeah I think it is failed but making a multi-billion dollar purchase in a region and then trying (and struggling to sell it) to get out of the market because it isn't worth it is surely a type of failure too. Plus I think that's sort of true of all non-US markets for a lot of big US companies, I'm always surprised by this but in a previous job I remember hearing that Pepsi earn half their revenue in the US and even now when Walmart have very successful Asian brands, they still get 75% of their revenue in the US. They bought Asda over 20 years ago and made a real go of it - that was meant to be part of their ongoing European expansion in the 90s (I think they were also focusing on Germany) and European supermarket shares crashed the day it came out that Walmart were moving in.
The big issues that article noted was that while Asda was a really good brand fit, they have generally been one of the most affected by the competition from the German retailers which weren't expected in the late 90s - but basically the Asda brand was "we're the cheapest" and when Lidl and Aldi arrived that wasn't true anymore and they didn't really have as much of a brand identity as the other supermarkets. But also that basically Walmart/Asda were very committed to the big box out of town store, while Sainsbury's/Tesco etc pivoted to mini-stores in towns and cities like Tesco Metro and Tesco Express - and apparently these new convenience stores have been a big earner for those brands. Part of this was also that the competition regulator stopped Asda from buying Safeway (which was eventually bought by Morrisons). I also think that the UK retailers were ahead of the US on moving online, so Walmart in the US learned a lot from their UK operations but were behind initially.
I think they've generally given up on Europe because it's been more difficult than expected. But they've been trying to sell their stake in Asda for years and not able to find a buyer.
Got it. However, I think you've glided a little past my point which that I think it also shows that UK just isn't worth it. If being the #2/#3 chain isn't reason enough to stay on, it suggest there can be deeper issues in the UK supermarket sector (which we know there are). That's a bit different from say Syt's comments on Germany where they struggled to gain market share.
Quote from: garbon on October 16, 2020, 06:59:12 AM
Got it. However, I think you've glided a little past my point which that I think it also shows that UK just isn't worth it. If being the #2/#3 chain isn't reason enough to stay on, it suggest there can be deeper issues in the UK supermarket sector (which we know there are). That's a bit different from say Syt's comments on Germany where they struggled to gain market share.
Yeah. On market share, from the FT piece I think Asda were at about 15% of market share when they came in and are still at 15% 20 years on. Basically they got squeezed by the looks of it so to begin with Tesco went from about 20% to about 33% market share then the discounters came in and now have 15% market share too.
It's not the first story I've read of supermarket brands really struggling to move internationally - I know Tesco have (like Walmart) done well in Asia, but tried to launch brands in the US and just failed. I think it's really tough for that sort of retailer to expand internationallysomething about our cultural preferences and expectations in day-to-day shopping being quite fixed and difficult to export which seems really different than other sectors. It's a bit like when you go on holiday it's always fun to visit a local supermarket, but it's not really that different in any other type of retailer.
Out of interest what do you think are the deeper issues in the supermarket system?
Weak gun section?
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 16, 2020, 06:30:22 AM
@Sheilbh - I think the problem for the trams may have been the increasing proportion of the population living in the suburbs. So the City of Preston has only 115k people, but the "Preston Built-Up area" has 315k. The network shown on the map would only serve about a quarter of that population; in addition the people further out are at lower population densities.
I would quite like it of course, as one of the termini is 50 yards from my house and I could be whisked about what I consider to be the interesting parts of the town at speed :cool:
You know, this sounds OK to me. Covering 1/4 of the 300k population takes a lot of cars off the road, especially around the centre where there's likely to be the most traffic.
Quote from: Tyr on October 16, 2020, 07:44:07 AM
You know, this sounds OK to me. Covering 1/4 of the 300k population takes a lot of cars off the road, especially around the centre where there's likely to be the most traffic.
And you could always expand systems into Metroland (which was initially enabled by the trains anyway and only later became car-based). Or you have suburban rails which then link onto central tram systems.
So Walmart's German experience is Target's Canadian experience.
Big US retail seem to think that they are coming into a empty market, announcing it years in advance.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 16, 2020, 07:46:45 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 16, 2020, 07:44:07 AM
You know, this sounds OK to me. Covering 1/4 of the 300k population takes a lot of cars off the road, especially around the centre where there's likely to be the most traffic.
And you could always expand systems into Metroland (which was initially enabled by the trains anyway and only later became car-based). Or you have suburban rails which then link onto central tram systems.
I think a major upgrade of the railway system might be best. There are so many towns quite near to each other, Blackpool is 12 miles to the west, Blackburn 10 miles to the east, Bolton about 20 miles south. Even Manchester and Liverpool are only about 30 miles away. If we lived at North American style density it would basically be one city of maybe 5m people. The traffic to get from one of these towns/cities to another is consequently enormous.
Unfortunately a lot of the railway lines are slow and overcrowded; not a winning combination. Preston to Liverpool takes an hour (or more) and they are only 27 miles apart.......that is disgraceful.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 16, 2020, 05:08:14 AM
Note the derisive nature of the nicknames. It is curious that old women can buy their groceries on foot while young healthy men need to use a car :hmm:
Because old people can't drive without crashing so can't drive :P
Quote from: HVC on October 16, 2020, 08:53:34 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 16, 2020, 05:08:14 AM
Note the derisive nature of the nicknames. It is curious that old women can buy their groceries on foot while young healthy men need to use a car :hmm:
Because old people can't drive without crashing so can't drive :P
You'll be old one day too young feller-me-lad
shakes stick :P
This is getting really exciting and into trains now. Oh how I've dreamed for a UK that follows the Japanese/Swiss model of a nationwide metro.
But... Maybe we should split this off into a seperate urbanism thread and give syt his picture thread back?
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 16, 2020, 08:42:12 AM
Unfortunately a lot of the railway lines are slow and overcrowded; not a winning combination. Preston to Liverpool takes an hour (or more) and they are only 27 miles apart.......that is disgraceful.
Yep - the railways in lots of the north have been woefully under-invested in. They literally use old TfL buses as carriages on some lines :bleeding:
And it's not just that North-West conurbation - with a decent line that was electrified (not even high-speed) and linked to the Leeds/West Yorkshire and Sheffield/South Yorkshire conurbations and you have the potential for a really major metro area.
Instead we have the M62 :bleeding:
QuoteBut... Maybe we should split this off into a seperate urbanism thread and give syt his picture thread back?
Yes - sorry Syt I feel bad for the hijack so tried to get it back on tract with some old school Viennese pictures.
Then got dragged back in :Embarrass:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 16, 2020, 08:58:10 AM
Quote from: HVC on October 16, 2020, 08:53:34 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 16, 2020, 05:08:14 AM
Note the derisive nature of the nicknames. It is curious that old women can buy their groceries on foot while young healthy men need to use a car :hmm:
Because old people can't drive without crashing so can't drive :P
You'll be old one day too young feller-me-lad shakes stick :P
I don't drive now, so i'm ahead of the curve!
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 16, 2020, 05:08:14 AM
Note the derisive nature of the nicknames. It is curious that old women can buy their groceries on foot while young healthy men need to use a car :hmm:
No old women I know buy groceries on foot.
QuoteSame - and if necessary take a shopping bag with me.
Ok let me know when you start buying groceries for six people that way.
And hey all of this may work for you guys but there is no way that Texans are going to give up their cars and trucks unless they are made to. I just see electrification as the only way forward. I mean you might as well suggest that we change our official language to Swedish for how realistic it is.
Now a lot of compact urbanization did happen, because it is currently cool and hip, but it is very much an affectation for the wealthy. Few regular families can afford to live in the high rises in downtown Dallas or Austin.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 16, 2020, 06:04:50 AM
And to go back to Tyr's point - before the transition to buses (and their inevitable decline) - Preston used to have what looks to me like a decent tram system:
We had trams in Austin as well but that was also back when the city had about 50,000 people instead of 980,000. The same system would never work today, plus it ran right down the middle of the street. There is no space to put it now.
Quote from: Tyr on October 16, 2020, 04:18:16 AM
I go shopping with a rucksack, it works much better than carrier bags and I don't get why more don't do this.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 15, 2020, 07:07:09 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 15, 2020, 03:14:47 AM
This is a decent article on the whole thing-
http://nautil.us/issue/7/waste/did-cars-save-our-cities-from-horses (http://nautil.us/issue/7/waste/did-cars-save-our-cities-from-horses)
What else you got?
eh?
You link was insufficient. It boiled down to "There was other junk in the streets besides horse shit". It also undercut your argument that it was only a New York City problem since it contained statements about problems with horse shit in Rochester. Engineers at the time were saying that horses were severe problem, I see no reason to doubt them.
We are also ignoring the other problems with horses. Stables, food and water.
Horses are pretty good eating.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 16, 2020, 05:52:57 AM
I use rucksack and supplementary bag and, because we are a family of four, shop at least 5 times a week. It is time-consuming, perhaps 6 hours per week, but otoh there is about 20 miles per week of brisk walking which has health benefits.
I think this also shows the difference in how Americans view things from Europeans. When I shopped for my family of six, I went to the grocery store once every two weeks for the bulk of my groceries, spending upwards of $500 at a time. I would occasionally go for the odd bit of bob in between, but most of the shopping was done twice a month.
That's impossible to do without a car.
I have a hard time taking the word rucksack seriously.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 16, 2020, 08:11:41 PM
I have a hard time taking the word rucksack seriously.
What if Meri called it her "fucksack"?
It was Richard who had the fucksack.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 16, 2020, 09:11:55 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 16, 2020, 08:11:41 PM
I have a hard time taking the word rucksack seriously.
What if Meri called it her "fucksack"?
Why's it gotta be me? :mad:
Besides I don't use a rucksack. I use a fanny pack. :sleep:
;)
I thought it was marsupials who had fanny packs?
I'm not expecting Americans to change their ways btw. My principal concern is to reduce car traffic in NW England to make the place nicer; that and a high-speed rail link to Liverpool so I can get my city-vibe more conveniently :cool:
Why Liverpool?
Manchester seems the best bet. Apparently they're looking into trying to get a proper TFL style thing going on and better links to towns around the city too.
With HS2, shoukd it ever finally happen, it bodes well for freeing up a lot of rails
Quote from: Razgovory on October 16, 2020, 03:56:36 PM
You link was insufficient. It boiled down to "There was other junk in the streets besides horse shit". It also undercut your argument that it was only a New York City problem since it contained statements about problems with horse shit in Rochester. Engineers at the time were saying that horses were severe problem, I see no reason to doubt them.
We are also ignoring the other problems with horses. Stables, food and water.
Insufficient for what?
What argument was 'undercut'?
I really have no idea what you're upset about here.
Also needs noting that engineers weren't saying horses were a problem and that even if they had this would be missing the point as horses weren't most peoples primary means of transport.
Quote from: Tyr on October 17, 2020, 02:55:00 AM
Why Liverpool?
RH likes to retrace the steps from when he was the original 5th Beatle. :P
I just don't find Manchester very interesting, it is a boring place where people work; Liverpool has more interesting architecture, better pubs and i like the civic culture there. (I believe Manchester has fantastic club life btw, but i never really got on with clubs even when I was a youngster).
But, if we are talking transport policy, it is definitely the case that the railways in and out of Manchester require a massive capacity increase; and this is not a matter of being green and utopian, the demand is there and the lack of supply is holding the region back.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 17, 2020, 03:48:10 AM
I just don't find Manchester very interesting, it is a boring place where people work; Liverpool has more interesting architecture, better pubs and i like the civic culture there. (I believe Manchester has fantastic club life btw, but i never really got on with clubs even when I was a youngster).
But, if we are talking transport policy, it is definitely the case that the railways in and out of Manchester require a massive capacity increase; and this is not a matter of being green and utopian, the demand is there and the lack of supply is holding the region back.
Also if you go as far as Manchester you might as well go to Liverpool which will increase the metro area and all the benefits with that.
Photo of Vienna, tajen on the 21st November by the ISS
(https://external-preview.redd.it/ZVGuLsM36--H3CHKngpUTBczRCnhzEosZ2sS4D8PPm0.jpg?auto=webp&s=097f755dd96adcd3e0ec0d309ae3ddf221e7db8d)
https://external-preview.redd.it/ZVGuLsM36--H3CHKngpUTBczRCnhzEosZ2sS4D8PPm0.jpg?auto=webp&s=097f755dd96adcd3e0ec0d309ae3ddf221e7db8d
That's awesome. You can even make out some of the landmarks.
If only Franz Joseph could have seen the Gloriette lit up from space.
Tokyo and Mt Fuji
(https://i.redd.it/5j2dxq5fv3361.jpg)
TIL: In 1949, the Third Avenue Transit Corporation of New York City donated 45 streetcars to the city of Vienna which were then in service till 1969, and one is still in the tram museum:
(https://blog.wienerlinien.at/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/320427307-768x511.jpg)
(https://blog.wienerlinien.at/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/2095711121-1.jpg)
(https://blog.wienerlinien.at/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/1465037207-e1599813873766.jpg)
(https://blog.wienerlinien.at/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/20200708_135946.jpg)
(https://blog.wienerlinien.at/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/20200708_Amerikaner-edited-1-768x577.jpg)
(https://blog.wienerlinien.at/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Amerikaner-innen.jpg)
(https://blog.wienerlinien.at/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Amerikaner-Verkehrsmuseum-4208-Front-DSC00522-768x512.jpg)
Vienna 1860. This is the area where the city hall and surrounding area would be built in the following decades (city hall was completed in 1883). This was mostly a parade ground after the city fortifications were removed (the dismantling of the old city walls started with Napoleon's occupation and continued till 1863 when the last bits were removed).
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuHyNEgXAAQ3T1p?format=jpg&name=medium)
What the area looks like today:
(https://austria-forum.org/attach/Bilder_und_Videos/Luftaufnahmen/%C3%96sterreich_Vogelperspektive/Wien/Wien_-_Ring/RedakII_018_Ring_1.jpg)
You can see the Military Geographical Institute which is in the center of the first picture slightly behind/left of the city hall. The modern Ringstraße is basically where the old fortifications used to run.
Group of foreign officers. Probably taken during Austrian (or German?) Kaisermanöver (annual military exercise attended by the Emperor) 1900:
(https://i.redd.it/cs3069dyx6g71.jpg)
What's with those pickelhaube-less German officers? Was the pickelhaube reserved only for certain ranks or units?
Might also depend on regiment or troop type, I would imagine.
EDIT: Or maybe a different form of dress. Dress uniform vs field uniform, e.g.
EDIT 2: Actually, they could be Bavarians. Apparently their generals didn't adopt the Pickelhaube.
Cool photo.
As officers they had, at least in practice, a bit more freedom to use the headgear they preferred (within what was available to their troop type). I wonder, in principle you can tell by the lower cockade on their caps but it's a bit hard in the photo, but the two Germans without pickelhaube might be Bavarians. My sources tell me that Bavaria was slow to introduce the pickelhaube (1886) because it was felt to be too Prussian, and I suppose they may not have been as enthusiastic about wearing it. Bavaria's army was the most independent from Prussia in the German Empire.
Just bavaria? Thought there was a fair bit of variety amongst the lesser kingdoms in Germany
Quote from: Tyr on August 09, 2021, 04:30:14 AM
Just bavaria? Thought there was a fair bit of variety amongst the lesser kingdoms in Germany
IIRC, and maybe a bit simplified, the smallest states contributed units to the Prussian army, while Bavaria, Württemberg and Saxony had their own armies (which came under Imperial/Prussian command in time of war). Bavaria was the most independent non-Prussian state (the different states made different deals with Prussia when they tied themelves to Prussia/Germany, and Bavaria for instance retained direct diplomatic relations with the Vatican even when part of Imperial Germany).
Bavaria was weird that way. The resurgence of Lederhosen and traditional dress happened after unification as a means to instill a feeling of local identity for Bavarians (I seem to recall seeing a TV documentary about this many moons ago which detailed that the Bavarian monarchy was supported in that by a Prussian firm, basically an early PR/branding consultancy).
I always wondered what Theodore Roosevelt would have looked like as an Austrian.
Been playing around with a voxel editor the last couple of days, trying my hand at some modeling. It was quite fun. :)
I made all the below from scratch, using reference photos for the greebles (the production crew on Star Wars created the surface structures from raiding model kits, and created prop squares that they could assemble any way they liked, see: https://starwarsblog.starwars.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2014/11/EP4_BTS_947_R.jpg
I basically did the same :P Overall
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaIjn-BWYAMMEKM?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaIjp7-XoAEAW8E?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaIjrosWQAEchHx?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaIjsT5XoAUhaWF?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaIjwLyXEAA8KI3?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaIjwwjXkAYmbyO?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaIjy65WIAcW3Fd?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaIj0iwXEAEp-EU?format=jpg&name=large)
Still playing around with voxels. It's a pretty chill thing to do while listening to books. Kind of gives me a similar zen state as jigsaw puzzles. I may just be getting old. :D
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Far2_RoX0AUuHkm?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Far3P3xWYAAqCeB?format=jpg&name=medium)
Recreating things is relatively straightforward (just takes patience to get details and proportions right), but I find coming up with original designs a lot harder. :D
Cool. :)
Had this Reddit thread saved for some reason, probably to post here. :P (Was going to post in Ohio thread, but wasn't sure if appropriate.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/uzrya5/in_poland_there_is_a_larp_group_that_roleplays_as/
QuoteIn Poland, there is a LARP group that roleplays as contemporary Americans. Here they are doing "Ohio."
(https://preview.redd.it/e14urtox39291.jpg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=312b08199da049653b3c794e7727df622307f54f)
(https://preview.redd.it/n0iuu9rx39291.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4edb9646c1d01ad06c082258f4eead029e17c333)
(https://preview.redd.it/bhwqrwsx39291.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9b491d522e9ebb8b2025d7b1dee71bde645ef08)
(https://preview.redd.it/bt0zc9ux39291.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2af681cd172c0444bfebb0e1713c61e606929d0)
(https://preview.redd.it/64vfkrvx39291.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c7303b2825390d836d3319a763c69d0b103c89d)
(https://preview.redd.it/225sgexx39291.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9fc2d1e9e8d548f17ea6c359e00c7b5493acca70)
(https://preview.redd.it/e0ai7syx39291.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74ba19c43806b14ce3a8cafa10f5c49a04fa1999)
(https://preview.redd.it/i9a2g50y39291.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4155acb03702071363339a447761f45e6cd3d040)
(https://preview.redd.it/rayglj1y39291.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3d5fa8accb8f14a7bcb394f89f9747901de448d)
(https://preview.redd.it/vviwzr2y39291.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71730655db761eb4f9a4dcd38537c12e88939e31)
(https://preview.redd.it/yq93k54y39291.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6de8b10ebd16f144847ca212e56db660e7e2bed4)
(https://preview.redd.it/yflivr5y39291.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c25bc4c3f0d2fee6ccfb367d00c4ca2babb2c0b2)
Do they look obese enough to be Americans?
Yeah, that's a major mark against the accuracy. :D
I posted some "redneck" Finns a while ago, but it seems those image sources are gone. They too looked far too skinny.
I don't get the goo all over the chick's face.
Looks like some kind of beauty mask? Looking closer I think it's some kind of wrap/paper/foil thing?
(https://www.sephora.com/productimages/product/p460701-av-02-zoom.jpg?imwidth=315)
Something along the lines of this, maybe: https://www.honest.com/beauty-products/skincare/reusable-magic-silicone-sheet-mask/B0065MRM0000S.html
Curious.
I have a former colleague in czechia who worked for a year in the US. Apparently now he's back he does a yearly thing of full American thanksgiving for his friends. This looks like a similar idea but amped up.
Ah, the 60s, when even the ads were segregated. :(
(https://preview.redd.it/ca1q8em5hip21.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=839769886c64a30f7d9621fe93ca0b754c30b7bd)
(https://preview.redd.it/enfk7pppwy8a1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9e28fa04b035ff33517209c6022cac91b1b650d9)
Quote from: Syt on December 30, 2022, 03:06:17 AMAh, the 60s, when even the ads were segregated. :(
They're wearing the same clothes, save for the girls; so did the photographer dress the white people, then when they'd gone get the black Americans to wear those clothes?
Quote from: mongers on December 30, 2022, 09:43:07 AMQuote from: Syt on December 30, 2022, 03:06:17 AMAh, the 60s, when even the ads were segregated. :(
They're wearing the same clothes, save for the girls; so did the photographer dress the white people, then when they'd gone get the black Americans to wear those clothes?
:lol:
Though squinting I think the black and white stripey shirt might be different too? Black dude seems to have thinner lines.
So these were apparently ads in Canadian papers in the 60s ...
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Factivehistory.ca%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F10%2F12.png&hash=c19d9e32c98c41cec94fbe8539dfca2d98817d36)
(https://i.cbc.ca/1.4583042.1521488384!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_780/aim-ad-2.jpg)
(https://i.cbc.ca/1.3781658.1499722198!/fileImage/httpImage/image.png_gen/derivatives/original_780/sixties-scoop-adopt-indian-metis-program.png)
(https://i.cbc.ca/1.4584435.1521570933!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/aim-ad-gwen.jpg)
Honestly a bit disappointed in Ted Lasso there in the first pic.
Damn thats depressing.
Excuse me whilst I go hug the boy.
The city of Itzehoe historically was split into 4 different jurisdictions (1617 - 1861). The Wikipedia article now has a map from 1848 that delineates them:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Itzehoe_Grundriss_1848.jpg)
Full size: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Itzehoe_Grundriss_1848.jpg
White: city law (originally in the middle ages "Lüb'sches Stadtrecht", i.e. after Lübeck's city laws)
Yellow: Jursidiction of the monastery
Brown: Jurisdiction of the "Burg" (castle)
Blue: Jurisdiction of the Counts of Breitenburg
Cool map :cool:
Fun image of Austrian army 1958:
(https://i.redd.it/zx3xodu697ra1.png)
Using MG-3, M1 Garand and T-34/85.
Also, I came across Mark Rogers' art - he's mixing frontier Americana with supernatural/aliens ... not gonna lie, I'm not a big fan of a Weird West setting, but I would watch this show/play this game/read this book. :lol:
https://www.markrogersart.com/new-index-1
Some examples (many more at the link above):
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54dbe43be4b021d943fbf6f4/1668897409816-B99MG9CH3EQB8NSNFQ6U/battleintheredcavity.jpg)
"Battle in the Red Cavity"
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54dbe43be4b021d943fbf6f4/1657729943095-MQ8GKNUAQHPKW9PE00FB/ceremonialsciencetemple.jpg)
"Ceremonial Science Temple"
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54dbe43be4b021d943fbf6f4/1657730194463-6J2OHL4FPQPWDDRM2HXG/theabductionoffloymawson.jpg)
"The Abduction of Floy Mason"
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54dbe43be4b021d943fbf6f4/1627670782259-47YSWB0S9DDJE4VDC073/anaudiencewithalord.jpg)
"An Audience With a Lord"
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54dbe43be4b021d943fbf6f4/1571612810680-LZK3GIVSE5VD69KS8ILT/equinoxritual.jpg)
"Equinox Ritual"
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54dbe43be4b021d943fbf6f4/1553917245272-L511N262A0P8QKTXDIZJ/deathpriests.jpg)
"Death Priests"
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54dbe43be4b021d943fbf6f4/1613358802979-UW6ICILOXJJV4O7BCZIY/dreamharvest.jpg)
"Dream Harvest"
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54dbe43be4b021d943fbf6f4/1601566326649-QGPQEO5IS06XPTF97FH1/theastralpicnic.jpg)
"The Astral Picnic"
Lovecraft would give his approval.
This is excellent.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXgwYHXgAAUR-a?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXgyUhXwAAqP_m?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXgzMhXkAM6vtb?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXgz8cXkAAG8YT?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXiZpXWQAAtwrM?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXibAEXkAA5kg2?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXicU7XoAAb58D?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXidktWIAI92nN?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXi2u7WIAQQOSu?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXi31_XgAEMlHU?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXi5amX0AA7lOO?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXi6elWYAIaXZk?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXjYEaXkAIV8B_?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXjZvHX0AAvgrH?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXjbpQWQAI__aL?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfXjcZ9XEAA8S_X?format=jpg&name=medium)
Nice story Syt.
I'll refrain from quoting your post as I might break the forum by reposting around 12mb of jpgs in a single post. :D
That is amazing. :lol:
Quote from: Syt on April 01, 2023, 02:20:08 AMAlso, I came across Mark Rogers' art - he's mixing frontier Americana with supernatural/aliens ... not gonna lie, I'm not a big fan of a Weird West setting, but I would watch this show/play this game/read this book. :lol:
If I didn't know better I would just assume these were pictures from the Book of Mormon.
So...thats a thing that somebody has done. :lol:
I laugh at it in itself and the weirdness of its existance.
Quote from: mongers on April 03, 2023, 07:27:02 AMNice story Syt.
I'll refrain from quoting your post as I might break the forum by reposting around 12mb of jpgs in a single post. :D
Agree with both sentiments, and that's why I'm quoted you and not Syt. :D
you guys still on dial-up? :P
From this Twitter thread (https://twitter.com/kane/status/1646195380290306066 (https://twitter.com/kane/status/1646195380290306066)), real infrastructure that looks out of sci-fi.
Interior of a liquid gas tanker
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth19LsXwBUBtT9?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Neutrino detector
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth2aIYXwB87d1U?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth2aIZWAAARIA6?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Adaptative optics observatories
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth3VR9XwBcVsh6?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth3VSLX0AAmSJE?format=jpg&name=large)
Tokyo Metropolitan Area Underground Discharge Channel
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth307yWIAEsIxq?format=jpg&name=medium)
US Air Force test center anechoic chambers in Edwards Air Force Base, California
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth49r-XwCM5z4I?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth49r-XwAABRdP?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Bucket Wheel excavators
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth591_XwA8g6n-?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth592AXwBgdQ1X?format=jpg&name=small)
R/P FLIP, a naval research vessel able to flip into a vertical position
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth6q6AWwAAiTMn?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth6q5-XwB0i3QM?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth6q5-XwB4Y96O?format=jpg&name=medium)
Semi submersible heavy lift vessels
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth_8VqXwBIHTIY?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth_8RBXwAsuwim?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fth_8ZPXwB8LeEK?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Concentrated solar power plants
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiBNoYXwAog2vy?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiBNoWXwBEM7j-?format=jpg&name=medium)
Royal Ontario Museum
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiCAb1XwA0hkNY?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiCAb1XwAwvoZp?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
AREVA nuclear reactor factory
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiDgxpXwAQnFmA?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiDgxoXwBg9rfs?format=jpg&name=medium)
Elevator testing facilities
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiDysSXoAA4oyK?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiDysQXwFwfkVX?format=jpg&name=medium)
AT&T Long Lines building in NYC
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiE_gHXwCQO7Ra?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiE_gMXwC8yIsI?format=jpg&name=small)
Google's quantum computer
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiF76lXwB49IaF?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiF76aXwAAZqEV?format=jpg&name=large)
Compact muon solenoid detector at the Large Hadron Collider
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiGPigWAB8z2Ka?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiGPicWABESMPx?format=jpg&name=large)
Sandia National Laboraties' Z Machine x ray source at Albuquerque, New Mexico
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiG3k-WYAAPTEK?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiG3lMWAA0SR3R?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Overland trains
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiIaRgWAA0oMm7?format=jpg&name=medium)
Da Vinci's robot assisted surgical system
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiI8JRWAAE6N88?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiI8JNWwAMrgol?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Monticello Dam reservoir in Napa county, California
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiJsI1WIAAy6Pb?format=jpg&name=medium)
General Electric's Aviation Engine Testing, Research and Development Center in Winnipeg
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiLVKmWAAAj3P_?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiLVKlWIAI0zO7?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiLVKkWAAEKKKB?format=jpg&name=medium)
Supersonic wind tunnel at the ONERA (French Aerospace Research Center) on the suburbs of Paris
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiMAA7WAAsQoQS?format=jpg&name=medium)
Tunnel boring machines
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiNZBdWIAMhnTW?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiNZBgWYAA-Uqd?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiNZBfWAAkjXxx?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Global Seed Vault at Svalbard, Norway
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiQNowWIAEMxnv?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
National Ignition Facility's target chamber at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in Livermore, California
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtmvUBXX0AEc29K?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtmvUBpXoAsbt3d?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Wind blade transportation for wind parks
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtnlRaAX0AMAc31?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtnlRaCWIAUCPuG?format=jpg&name=large)
Radar array in Ny-Alesund, Norway
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtirAllX0AEwxI4?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Mare Nostrum supercomputer in Barcelona
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtisZxeX0AIhQYm?format=jpg&name=large)
Duga radar array in Chernobyl
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtlmlszXoAE7Gxx?format=jpg&name=large)
Cool pictures. Something about big equipment makes me feel like a little kid.
Also, I hate, hate, hate the stupid crystal cancer/expansion at the Royal Ontario Museum. Great museum inside though. Subway station is cool too
(https://www.rom.on.ca/sites/default/files/styles/magazine_carousel/public/museum_platform_0.jpg?itok=xoIDAUip)
Just posting this link here of a guy sharing some family pictures (250+, actually).
https://imgur.com/gallery/fwLObTE
Guy's grandfather was U.S. military intelligence in the 1950s/60s, with pictures from his time in Britain, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Vietnam, Japan. Additionally, his grandfather was captain of a freighter, traveling the Middle East in the 1950s (Saudi Arabia, Jerusalem, Lebanon).
Some very cool pictures in there. :)
Visited London on Tuesday for a bit of a Languish inspired 11-12mile 'death march', managed to fit in the Tower of London, HMS Belfast, British Museum and the Cabinet/Churchill War Rooms in Whitehall.
The Tower was the expect tourist hotspot, odd to 'see' the missing coronation crowns and other tat replaced by little printer signs along the lines of 'item removed for big event'. :D
HMS Belfast the most fun, climbing up and down the ships ladders to access the different decks including the engine room and shell magazines.
Only went to the British museum for a coffee, a glimpse of the Sutton Hoe Saxon collection and because it was on the way back from St.Pauls.
The rebranded Churchill war rooms was ok, but a very dark underground museum to spend the last part of the day in and I've been there before, just after it'd opened so back then one had a more open, less managed museum experience.
Had a bit of time to kill so spent an hour wondering around the coronation ground zero, now a pedestrianised area around Westminster.
TowerLondon_White Tower1.jpg
TowerLondon_Armour2.jpg
Tower Bridge.jpg
Hms Belfast_01.jpg
Hms Belfast_Forward Turrets 1.jpg
Hms Belfast_Turret Inside.jpg
Hms Belfast_Magazine Shells.jpg
St Pauls.jpg
The British Museum was just about bearable, but I'm kicking myself for not having visited during lockdown, when international travel was banned; I wonder if it was like how I remember it from 30 years ago?
British Muse_Great Court.jpg
British Muse_Sutton Hoe1.jpg
British Muse_Tourque.jpg
Horseguards Flag.jpg
Westminster Abbey.jpg
Nice pictures :cheers:
I did enjoye the Tower when I went years ago, but you have to accept you're going into a tourist zone. I think it helped that I was with someone very unversed in history in general, and even less familiar with English history. That way, even the most basic stuff was interesting ("they chopped her head off?!?!?! Right over there?!?!?") and allowed me to feel intelligent as I could help contextualize things a bit for my friend.
Quote from: Jacob on May 04, 2023, 12:03:06 PMNice pictures :cheers:
I did enjoye the Tower when I went years ago, but you have to accept you're going into a tourist zone. I think it helped that I was with someone very unversed in history in general, and even less familiar with English history. That way, even the most basic stuff was interesting ("they chopped her head off?!?!?! Right over there?!?!?") and allowed me to feel intelligent as I could help contextualize things a bit for my friend.
Thanks.
Yes you're right, best to accept and go with the flow of tourism, literally in the White Tower's case.
What surprised me was in comparison with the Tower, just over the Thames HMS Belfast was deserted, maybe 10-20 other visitors during my 1-1.5 hours time there.
Well worth a visit as it's a good size WW2 ship to thoroughly explore, whereas I guess some of the larger preserved US battleships/carriers have almost too much to see? :unsure:
I am aware that Emperor Karl I of Austria is beatified (and moving towards sainthood, see Orlando Sentinel: Baptist woman from Kissimmee edges Austro-Hungarian emperor toward Roman Catholic sainthood (https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2008/02/01/baptist-woman-from-kissimmee-edges-austro-hungarian-emperor-toward-roman-catholic-sainthood/)), I actually visited his tomb when I visited Madeira in 2008. More info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_I_of_Austria#Beatification
Still, stuff like this is weird. :D
https://www.reddit.com/r/austriahungary/comments/13dxz4b/new_shrine_for_bl_karl_in_tampa_fl_usa/
QuoteNew shrine for Bl Karl in Tampa, FL USA
Relic was blessed by Bishop Schneider at his visit this past weekend. We are hoping to build a new church in the near future so couldn't make a more beautiful or permanent shrine, but we are so honored to be able to spread the devotion of this great man in our corner of the world.
(https://preview.redd.it/9ryhqingk1za1.jpg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=ca7f14d3a8cf668718f0067ce7f8a7a126b0ffda)
(https://preview.redd.it/duhvojngk1za1.jpg?width=3520&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=4423940ef67132cb0c731893ce7952fb0469f0b5)
(https://preview.redd.it/0uteoingk1za1.jpg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=a1329ac4bcb10c67b5fa85ac94d56c1b38b37530)
(https://preview.redd.it/pzyttingk1za1.jpg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=5f248c84fe0b176a3df7265612b49efb9355102c)
If you'd like to visit a shrine in your area, it seems this site has a list (not sure if up to date):
https://www.emperorcharles.org/shrines-and-relics
:pope: :P
Actually, here's his shrine in the Saint Mary Mother of God Church, Washington, D.C.
(https://saintmarymotherofgod.org/photoalbums/our-church/SMMOG%20Blessed%20Karl%201.jpg)
https://saintmarymotherofgod.org/photoalbums/our-church
Maybe I am being too hard on ol' Charles but it is hard for me to look at his actions during and after the war and think "now there is a man of inspiring holiness."
It isn't like he was a monster or anything but I can think of a few more noble things he might have done than what he did.
Quote from: Valmy on May 10, 2023, 03:18:32 PMMaybe I am being too hard on ol' Charles but it is hard for me to look at his actions during and after the war and think "now there is a man of inspiring holiness."
It isn't like he was a monster or anything but I can think of a few more noble things he might have done than what he did.
To quote Pope JP2:
QuoteThe decisive task of Christians consists in seeking, recognizing and following God's will in all things. The Christian statesman, Charles of Austria, confronted this challenge every day. To his eyes, war appeared as "something appalling". Amid the tumult of the First World War, he strove to promote the peace initiative of my Predecessor, Benedict XV.[37]
According to Wiki, the peace plan was:
Quote(1) the moral force of right ... be substituted for the material force of arms, (2) there must be simultaneous and reciprocal diminution of armaments, (3) a mechanism for international arbitration must be established, (4) true liberty and common rights over the sea should exist, (5) there should be a renunciation of war indemnities, (6) occupied territories should be evacuated, and (7) there should be an examination of rival claims. The best outcome to the war, according to Pope Benedict XV, was an immediate restoration of the status quo without reparations or any form of forced demands.
I'm about to head to bed, so not going to verify/cross reference if this is a fair depiction of Karl or B15's peace plan, but if it is, then - gee, wonder why Karl liked the proposal. :P
The signing of the Korean War armistice in 1953:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Korean_War_armistice_agreement_1953.jpg)
And in North Korean art:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2c/b0/ee/2cb0ee7afdf88ca609fc5e23bd67949b.jpg)
(https://i.redd.it/ko69o15eyu0b1.jpg)
Subtle. :D
Really, everyone on NK side was clapping in unison? They didn't even try to make it believable, did they?
On Habsburgs :lol:
QuoteLuka Ivan Jukic
@lijukic
How fitting that the House of Habsburg's role in Central European history ended not with a bang, but struggling against a distant and impenetrable Austrian bureaucracy
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwW81ciX0AAfeTP?format=jpg&name=small)
RH made the joke about 1980s Sheffield ("Sheffield's been nuked?" - "How could they tell?") in the Elon Musk thread, and today I randomly come across the pictures of Raymond Depardon, taken in Glasgow 1980. :ph34r:
I had a colleague from Glasgow; he was 10 years older than me, which would make him ca. 13/14 in 1980. I guess I can finally relate what he meant when he said that Glasgow was a dump when he was growing up. :bowler:
(https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/%2Fmethode%2Fsundaytimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F64bed220-07d7-11e6-94fc-8baed4232dc4.jpg)
(https://content.magnumphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/cortex/nn11455843-overlay.jpg)
(https://content.magnumphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/cortex/nn11455822-overlay.jpg)
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1E3D/production/_115214770_der1980013k075-web.jpg)
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/104B5/production/_115214766_der1980013k003-web.jpg)
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/152D5/production/_115214768_der1980013k040-web.jpg)
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/DDA5/production/_115214765_der1980013k001-web.jpg)
(https://content.magnumphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/cortex/nn11455865-overlay.jpg)
(https://content.magnumphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/cortex/nn11455819-overlay.jpg)
(https://content.magnumphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/cortex/par446328-overlay.jpg)
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/12BC5/production/_115214767_der1980013k004-web.jpg)
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/179E5/production/_115214769_der1980013k051-web.jpg)
Yes indeed, thinking back to Shielbh's post in the brexit thread about the "Boratisation" of the UK and the willingness to put up with mediocrity or worse (from a Bagehot article in the Economist); for people of my age the progress made since the 1970s and 80s is incredible and I wonder if this partly explains current British contentment with second-rate goods and services? I am not content as I lived abroad a lot when I was a youngster and knew things could be better but many/most other people my age did not have that opportunity.
I was very pissed off with how crappy the UK was when we returned in 1964 and happy when we returned to Germany (central heating, beer gardens which allowed kids, nicer food) in 1966 :bowler:
So this is the glorious past over 50% of the uk wants to get back to?
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on July 09, 2023, 07:03:37 AMYes indeed, thinking back to Shielbh's post in the brexit thread about the "Boratisation" of the UK and the willingness to put up with mediocrity or worse (from a Bagehot article in the Economist); for people of my age the progress made since the 1970s and 80s is incredible and I wonder if this partly explains current British contentment with second-rate goods and services? I am not content as I lived abroad a lot when I was a youngster and knew things could be better but many/most other people my age did not have that opportunity.
I was very pissed off with how crappy the UK was when we returned in 1964 and happy when we returned to Germany (central heating, beer gardens which allowed kids, nicer food) in 1966 :bowler:
Tbh, those pics look not unlike what some East German cities looked like in the 80s. E.g. Rostock in 1989: https://www.spiegel.de/geschichte/rostock-1989-schonungslose-fotos-der-altstadt-a-959131.html#fotostrecke-67358921-0001-0002-0000-000000112300
Quote from: Syt on July 09, 2023, 07:48:00 AMTbh, those pics look not unlike what some East German cities looked like in the 80s. E.g. Rostock in 1989: https://www.spiegel.de/geschichte/rostock-1989-schonungslose-fotos-der-altstadt-a-959131.html#fotostrecke-67358921-0001-0002-0000-000000112300
That makes sense I can't remember how they did the comparison but basically the only areas with a comparable rate of deindustrialisation as British cities are former Eastern Bloc hubs.
In terms of striking images in Glasgow there was the Red Road Estate built in the 60s as part of slum clearance programs and to provide new, bright, healthy living for residents of Glasgow:
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/443ad69544402d73bb1515464f91cee99ff2fee7/0_0_2789_1921/master/2789.jpg?width=880&dpr=1&s=none)
Things didn't turn out that way. They ended up being a huge sink estate with racial tensions, gangs fighting over territory and massive amounts of heroin - in Glasgow (as in Liverpool, where I was never allowed to buy anything from an ice cream van), ice cream vans were used to deal heroin as well as shift stolen goods etc so it was known as the ice cream wars.
They finally ended up being demolished in 2015 as pretty much impossible to save (the demolition was botched so it took longer than expected). But just before:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fst9YTkWIAAsBc8?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/1841fefa7cb4ca6a7377e60c9000b23078bf6caa/0_189_3000_1801/master/3000.jpg?width=1900&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=295904a954454ed5947a909c6ba456aa)
Glasgow's really extreme though - I've said before that Scotland has the highest rate of drug deaths in Europe by a significant distance and has something approaching North American levels. Within Scotland, Glasgow has the highest rate. There are parts of Glasgow where life expectancy is in the 50s, while on average in the UK it's around the early 80s (a little lower in Scotland).
It's had the standard bits and pieces regeneration - so there's a good (and very established university), great arts centres and schools (including the Rennie Mackintosh icon which burned down), it was a finalist to host Eurovision, it's been European capital of culture, with Liverpool it was Gotham in the latest Batman film (there are a lot of overlaps with Liverpool) and it's got a growing services sector. It's a really interesting (and fun) place to visit and it is generally really attractive (I was going to say pretty but it's not, even the nice building are more grand and imposing and moody than pretty), and in a beautiful setting too. But there is still incredible poverty and deprivation and of everywhere I've been to in the UK (and Europe to be honest) it's the one with the most visible social problems with drugs and alcohol - again on the comparison of drug death rates, I believe Glasgow's is higher than the US.
I can see where they got some of the ideas of Mega-City One in the Judge Dredd comics. :P
Quote from: Syt on July 09, 2023, 08:15:39 AMI can see where they got some of the ideas of Mega-City One in the Judge Dredd comics. :P
:lol: Yeah and Ballard too.
And they're still inspring as settings for people - there's a debut novel that got well reviewed (which I will read) set in the condemned towers called The Voids. Skippinng over the channel I also absolutely loved Gagarine which I think touched on similar stuff on a banlieue block being condemned for demolition:
I feel like there's probably a dissertation in high-rises in post-war Euro-imagination :hmm: The solution to and cause of all society's ills :lol:
It's interesting how they worked in some countries but not in others.
In Switzerland and the Netherlands for instance they don't seem to be half the issue they are in france and the UK.
Of course the core problem remains cars.
In the Uk we tried to ram impoverished families into the blocks, they didn't like them. They worked perfectly well for singles, bohemians etc etc and yuppies once they got tarted up and got a concierge. The failure was not the buildings, more that they were allocated to the wrong sort of households.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on July 09, 2023, 10:04:40 AMIn the Uk we tried to ram impoverished families into the blocks, they didn't like them. They worked perfectly well for singles, bohemians etc etc and yuppies once they got tarted up and got a concierge. The failure was not the buildings, more that they were allocated to the wrong sort of households.
Though a lot of our buildings were shit too. Lots of build errors, corrupt contracts, constantly breaking lifts, asbestos and so on.
But many blame this on the entire concept of a tower block rather than those particular ones being crap.
Quote from: Josquius on July 09, 2023, 08:56:45 AMIt's interesting how they worked in some countries but not in others.
In Switzerland and the Netherlands for instance they don't seem to be half the issue they are in france and the UK.
Of course the core problem remains cars.
Although, while I think that's important of what factors make/made them work - and as RH points out a key for a high rise now in the UK is for it to survive long enough to get listed, filled up with hipsters who can afford mid-century modern originals who can then sell it through The Modern House (e.g. https://www.themodernhouse.com/sales-list/trellick-tower-v/).
I just think - not to go full Foucault - they're an incredibly productive site of discourse and imagination in post-war Europe. They're modernising Europe and letting us skip straight from rubble and bomb sites to the future; and they're remedying old social ills (slums) and new ones as Europe becomes an immigration continent and rapidly urbanises (shantytowns in the 50s and 60s). They destroy pre-existing working class communities and atomise individual households; they're the site of new multi-cultural community identities. They're urban but also not - they're islands of isolation not integrated with the streets/city around them. They're high tech but riddled with asbestos and energy inefficient, but (in an age of climate change) perhaps have too much embedded carbon to ever justify demolishing). There's Judge Dredd, JG Ballard, La Haine, Gagarine (a whole string of banlieue films arguable - District 13 also springs to mind), Red Road (by Andrea Arnold), A Short Film About Love - and that's just Britain and France :lol:
Now I think about I think there's a genuine argument that the high rise is to post-war European culture what the suburbs are to North America - I imagine there's a whole other stream in former Eastern Bloc countries too (again areas where it feels like the high rise "works").
What's interesting is I think it's never had the simple interpretation of being a desirable type of living. I kept thinking tthis watching Succession - those aspirational, insanely lavish New York apartments. That high rise life as luxury is just not a thing that I think we have an image of in Europe, I don't think. Where it exists - like in High Rise there is also unease and the uncanny. That life of penthouse style high rise living is defined by the co-existing presence of social, moral, technical decay.
Quote from: Josquius on July 09, 2023, 08:56:45 AMIt's interesting how they worked in some countries but not in others.
In Switzerland and the Netherlands for instance they don't seem to be half the issue they are in france and the UK.
Of course the core problem remains cars.
Swiss have more cars then you, and netherlands not that much less per capita, so can't really blame them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita
Like sheilbh said, I think it's A matter of isolation. Not only from from from the city itself but often places like this built on mass are also isolated from amenities and jobs. Happens in NA too. Whole sections built to house tons of people without giving thought to what people actually need.
Here at least Hipsters go to them because they can't afford much else, but they're not end game, it's transitional. They won't/don't want to stay there forever and raise families.
QuoteAlthough, while I think that's important of what factors make/made them work - and as RH points out a key for a high rise now in the UK is for it to survive long enough to get listed, filled up with hipsters who can afford mid-century modern originals who can then sell it through The Modern House (e.g. https://www.themodernhouse.com/sales-list/trellick-tower-v/).
Ish. There's limits here. The tower blocks near me are never going to be filled with hipsters. Some are being knocked down right now (well. From 9 on Monday). They're too remote and in undesirable areas with nothing going on.
Even some closer to the centre blocks remain pretty shit as the surrounding area just has that reputation and the mentioned construction issues.
I think the hipsters in flats thing is very much more an exception than the norm. An insight into Londons (and by extension the UK as a whole in a different way) messed up situation.
A big problem I see is they were built at just the wrong time when people had some idea of the future but not enough experience to really get how it'd work in practice, when the traditional industries where going through a bit of a boom period despite their ultimate demise being not too far away.
Quote from: HVC on July 09, 2023, 01:19:56 PMQuote from: Josquius on July 09, 2023, 08:56:45 AMIt's interesting how they worked in some countries but not in others.
In Switzerland and the Netherlands for instance they don't seem to be half the issue they are in france and the UK.
Of course the core problem remains cars.
Swiss have more cars then you, and netherlands not that much less per capita, so can't really blame them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita
Not a particularly relevant measure here. 60 years ahead of time and it only slightly indicates the overall development philosophy.
Also worth considering where those cars are. In Switzerland they aren't where the tower blocks are.
QuoteLike sheilbh said, I think it's A matter of isolation.Not only from from from the city itself but often places like this built on mass are also isolated from amenities and jobs. Happens in NA too. Whole sections built to house tons of people without giving thought to what people actually need.
So basically yes. Cars are to blame.
Quote from: Josquius on July 09, 2023, 01:50:23 PMQuoteLike sheilbh said, I think it's A matter of isolation.Not only from from from the city itself but often places like this built on mass are also isolated from amenities and jobs. Happens in NA too. Whole sections built to house tons of people without giving thought to what people actually need.
So basically yes. Cars are to blame.
Here lack of cars caused a lot the problems in those areas. No parking spots or garages were built lol. They figured the poors wouldn't be able to afford cars anyway.
Quote from: HVC on July 09, 2023, 01:59:52 PMQuote from: Josquius on July 09, 2023, 01:50:23 PMQuoteLike sheilbh said, I think it's A matter of isolation.Not only from from from the city itself but often places like this built on mass are also isolated from amenities and jobs. Happens in NA too. Whole sections built to house tons of people without giving thought to what people actually need.
So basically yes. Cars are to blame.
Here lack of cars caused a lot the problems in those areas. No parking spots or garages were built lol. They figured the poors wouldn't be able to afford cars anyway.
Yes. Yet society changed without them dictating that cars were no longer a luxury and for people living in such remote areas you now had to have a car.
Quote from: Josquius on July 09, 2023, 01:50:23 PMIsh. There's limits here. The tower blocks near me are never going to be filled with hipsters. Some are being knocked down right now (well. From 9 on Monday). They're too remote and in undesirable areas with nothing going on.
Even some closer to the centre blocks remain pretty shit as the surrounding area just has that reputation and the mentioned construction issues.
I think the hipsters in flats thing is very much more an exception than the norm. An insight into Londons (and by extension the UK as a whole in a different way) messed up situation.
A big problem I see is they were built at just the wrong time when people had some idea of the future but not enough experience to really get how it'd work in practice, when the traditional industries where going through a bit of a boom period despite their ultimate demise being not too far away.
I'm not so sure. I remember when crazy house prices and wild rents were a London thing. Then they became a London and the South-East, then London, Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester, Bristol, the Central Belt and the South-East - and now where we are.
There's refurbishments of once "sink" estates that were scheduled for demolition going on all over the country - Park Hill in Sheffield springs to mind (https://www.urbansplash.co.uk/regeneration/projects/park-hill). This is good and better than demolishing them. But there is an irony in the block (Attack on the Block - another cultural representation!) achieving success by becoming a coveted status symbol for the middle class, as opposed to the universalist ideals that motivated so much of their constructiton - slum clearance, emplyting the shanty towns/bidonvilles, homes for all. They become what Unite d'Habitation is now or they get levelled.
Perhaps that's just a reflection on our society and economics though.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 09, 2023, 03:24:29 PM[quote author=Josqu
I'm not so sure. I remember when crazy house prices and wild rents were a London thing. Then they became a London and the South-East, then London, Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester, Bristol, the Central Belt and the South-East - and now where we are.
There's refurbishments of once "sink" estates that were scheduled for demolition going on all over the country - Park Hill in Sheffield springs to mind
Sure. Here too.
The mentioned demolitions though are the focal point of the plans to redevelop walker - something that has already been creeping in around the edges.
There's talk of similar in Gateshead too, a hefty redevelopment around the town centre... With knocking down a bunch of old tower blocks being noted as a key starting point for it.
QuoteThis is good and better than demolishing them. But there is an irony in the block (Attack on the Block - another cultural representation!) achieving success by becoming a coveted status symbol for the middle class, as opposed to the universalist ideals that motivated so much of their constructiton - slum clearance, emplyting the shanty towns/bidonvilles, homes for all. They become what Unite d'Habitation is now or they get levelled.
I dunno. These Walker towers... They're really pretty awful. And so misplaced standing out high above a sea of regular houses, a decrepit shopping precinct and a really quite lovely old church.
In terms of the environment on paper absolutely it'd be great if they could figure out a way to reuse them. But they're just so mismatched for the area that I couldn't see it working even if they did manage to get them up to yuppie standards.
Easy to make it fit into the neighbourhood - build more towers and midrise budings; just make sure to account for amenities and shopping too.
Quote from: Jacob on July 09, 2023, 07:37:56 PMEasy to make it fit into the neighbourhood - build more towers and midrise budings; just make sure to account for amenities and shopping too.
Easy from a sim city perspective.
Politically in reality far from it.
That's a tonne of extra work all for the sake of some buildings that are very unpopular. The objections of more of the same being built would be huge and it'd take forever to get anything built.
Not to mention evicting people from happy family homes vs. A few hold outs who not entirely inaccurately have been stereotyped as drug addicts.
There is massive construction of city centre apartment blocks going on in Manchester at the moment and has been for some years. The difference to the 1960s is that the blocks are close to the city centre and are private sector rather than council built. Their occupants are students, young professionals and so on...the proximity to all the restaurants and nightlife is a big part of their allure. This movement is now so prevalent that new blocks are actually being built in the centre of Preston nowadays https://www.theexchangepreston.com/discover-preston :hmm:
(https://i.imgur.com/bqSstPA.png)
Some WW2 pun propaganda. :)
(Also, those Germans look adorable :D )
They really do! What's German for minion?
Mini boss
If you mean the minions from Despicable Me - no German word for them. Otherwise Lakai(sing.)/Lakaien(pl.), Scherge/Schergen? Lakai (lackey) is more servile than Scherge, I think.
They say once the nazis were gone German productivity shot up 50%
Yo, Boston, MA ... WTF??
(https://i.postimg.cc/PqVLSq1d/image.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/T1JfHkBn/image.png)
I'm certainly not one who thinks every building that has a bit of historic patina needs to be preserved at all costs, but this is just plain hideous.
Condo forced to preserve facade? We have a few around here. Although less glaring.
Seems to be the case: https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2016/03/09/they-celebrated-life-and-love-in-holy-trinity-church-now-its-a-condo-building/
Paywalled so don't know, but it's possible they weren't forced to but chose to preserve the facade.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2024, 03:36:59 AMPaywalled so don't know, but it's possible they weren't forced to but chose to preserve the facade.
They do let us read it internationally and yes, that matches with what I got from the article. Though I'm not sure whether it draws line on if they had to keep the facade.
With the explanation and looking closer at the photo I actually really like this church-condo.
My comment referred to it being a condo now, not necessarily that they were required to maintain the facade.
(https://i.imgur.com/omtSidL.png)
:Embarrass:
Quote from: Syt on January 18, 2024, 02:19:28 AMSeems to be the case: https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2016/03/09/they-celebrated-life-and-love-in-holy-trinity-church-now-its-a-condo-building/
Being a person that has lived in a church-turned-condo...I actually rather like it, and approve of keeping the facade. I think it is a nice touch. :sleep:
And for what it is worth...it appears the average condo there is going for $3-4 million.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/140-Shawmut-Ave-4B-Boston-MA-02118/2090735211_zpid/?
It has a nice buttress. :P
Was tempted to put this in the AI doom thread. :P
End of 2022 I first tried out Midjourney. The initial prompts I gave (having no brilliant ideas) was "Painting of Super Mario as Napoleonic Marshal."
This was the result with V3 which was the current model at the time:
(https://i.imgur.com/NDciOSx.png)
There was an experimental test version available too which delivered this:
(https://i.imgur.com/1XunT7e.png)
V6.0 is in open alpha at the moment. The model has more parameters now, so I did two versions. One with the "default" stylization options:
(https://i.imgur.com/Vf0DKGf.png)
And one with stylization options turned to minimum:
(https://i.imgur.com/5mQtQJw.png)
And since he looked so dour I tried the default stylization but adding "happy" to the prompt:
(https://i.imgur.com/VNdnw8R.png)
I guess the quality has been improved a bit. :P
For comparison, 5.2 at default settings:
(https://i.imgur.com/PgZ4xPa.png)
A big change in 6.0 is adding the support for text rendering, though it's a bit hit and miss at the moment (DALL-E added it a few months back, though I'm not using it much due to its fierce blocking of anything resembling current IPs or living persons).
The prompts for the below were a fair bit more complex, plus adding the occasional reference image.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q8zURMQ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/2CQA4Df.jpg)
(Notice the typo on "Libertad", and it also struggles to convert the inverted !, rendering " instead)
(https://i.imgur.com/nK5D6f1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mhQyFJ4.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/U3dJbAL.jpg)
It's still struggling to create a good image of Incan torpedo boats fighting the giant ants of Brest-Litowsk. :(
You have a big subscription to this?
I've often been tempted to try it but the price is off putting.
Interesting images anyway. I like hasta la Victoria.
I have the cheapest sub that gives unlimited relaxed (slow) generations at $24/month. You can only have 3 concurrent jobs on slow, and you may have to wait a bit, but at least you can use it as much as you like. It comes with 15 hours of fast generation. Plus, you can daily go on the website and "Rate Images" where it shows you two images and you click the one you like better. If you're in the top 2000 raters of the day you get a bonus "fast" hour. Getting into that level takes five to ten minutes of fast clicking or so, so it's fairly easy to reach. Currently, I feel I get very good results by taking an image I like, tell ChatGPT to create a natural language prompt for that kind of image (V6 of Midjourney prefers natural language prompt over comma separated tags) and then use/tweak that as prompt for Midjourney, esp. when using fantasy art or paintings.