As some of you know, I've been brewing for a really long time. But I don't actually know a lot of the science behind it because I brew primarily historical beers, meads, and wines, and because, well, I don't care. It's just not the part that excites me.
However, I taught a class today on making bochet mead (it's a carmelized honey mead) and a question came up that I didn't know the answer to and it kind of made me curious.
To make bochet, you heat honey (nothing else, just honey) in a pot to a rolling boil and let it boil while stirring the whole time until it turns exactly the right color. For cooks, it's slightly darker than a roux should be. Then, you slowly add water, set it back to boil, and then boil it until it reduces down to whatever amount you're making. (I make this a gallon at a time.)
Someone asked why I don't just add the water to make it what I want instead of adding so much more (1.5 gallons when making a gallon of mead) and letting it boil off.
I know there's a reason for it (concentrating the flavors), and honestly, it's so well understood that the process is documented in the first known bochet recipe from the 1300s. But I don't know the science behind it.
So, here's your chance, science guys. Educate me in the most laymen of laymen terms why this is a thing. :)
Needs more eye of plutonium.
Boiling mead shortens the aging time you will have to wait, MAY clear up the product more quickly and totally sterilizes the honey while removing any waxes it may contain. But it drives off some of the delicate essences, making it less nuanced than the non-boiling method. Not boiling your mead will retain more of the honey fragrances and flavors. But you will have to wait longer for all the flavors to blend and mellow before you can fully enjoy your product...
As per this site: https://www.mainbrew.com/how_to_make_mead-ExtraPages.html
Yes. You are correct. :) Which is why I don't usually heat my honey when I make mead.
But I made a bochet, which is, literally, caramelized honey. That requires not only heating, but outright boiling the honey. No water mixed in; straight honey.
But then I add water and boil it down after. That's the part I'm unclear on why. Why not just add enough water to make a gallon?
Hmm... I'll attempt to dig some more later! I'll also ask a brewer I know who has his own apiary.
I tried to make mead a few weeks ago. It went quite well, but in the end it had a yeasty tinge. How do I get rid of that yeasty flavour?
What was your recipe, and what kind of yeast did you use?
I bought some mead yeast from a brewer supply business, I don't excactly remember the name of it.
The recipe was basically, gently honey and water, let cool, add yeast, wait. I believe it was about 3 or 4-1 in proportions water and honey.
How long did you wait? And how many times did you rack it, if any? (Move it from one fermenter to another one.)
That yeasty flavor usually comes from sitting on the lees too long. (That's the stuff that sinks to the bottom while it's fermenting.) I drain the must off the lees after about two weeks the first time, then I'll let it sit in the second fermenter for another two to four weeks to let things settle out. Then I'll bottle it.
Quote from: merithyn on May 19, 2020, 05:25:12 PM
How long did you wait? And how many times did you rack it, if any? (Move it from one fermenter to another one.)
That yeasty flavor usually comes from sitting on the lees too long. (That's the stuff that sinks to the bottom while it's fermenting.) I drain the must off the lees after about two weeks the first time, then I'll let it sit in the second fermenter for another two to four weeks to let things settle out. Then I'll bottle it.
8ish Weeks.
Never, fermented in the same place all the time. The into the fridge to let the stuff settle, then bottled it.
Interesting, thanks. I'll make a new attempt with cherries when my cherries get ripe.
Yeah, so that would be the problem. Or at least one possible reason. Another is the yeast that you use. Some leave a stronger flavor than others.
Easy answer is to drain it off the lees after two weeks, let it sit another couple of weeks, then pop it in the fridge for a bit before you bottle it. If that doesn't fix it, try another yeast.
I'll try and report back here. I appreciate your help :)
Quote from: Threviel on May 20, 2020, 02:03:21 PM
I'll try and report back here. I appreciate your help :)
Of course!
I'm planning to do a video class on making a bochet in the next couple of weeks, too. I'll post the link once it's done. :)
I found a new thing that I want to try. :ph34r:
It's called stone brewing, and it goes back thousands of years so far as archaeologists can tell. A friend and I are putting together a plan to build one of these Irish rock spaces in his backyard so we can use it to brew beer.
One of the things that has driven me nuts is trying to figure out how to boil must for as long as some 13th and 14th century recipes say needs to happen. It's hard to bring a liquid to a boil - and keep it there - over an open fire without a metal kettle, which was stupidly expensive at that time. (Around the same price as 2.5 cows, and few farmers had more than one cow.)
But using stones to boil shit... well yes, that makes sense! And now... I really want to try this....
https://mooregroup.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/the-archaeology-ireland-article/
When you have your fire are you using aged hard wood? One of the mistakes I learned I was making when we used a wood fireplace is that green or even not fully aged wood is a crappy heat source. Fun for fire pits, but useless beyond that. And would a thick walled ceramic vessel work? Or would it just crack?
Also, you might like this channel https://youtu.be/TdvRfPCrR3A I mean it's not overly in-depth but it's fun.
Quote from: HVC on June 12, 2020, 05:27:42 PM
When you have your fire are you using aged hard wood? One of the mistakes I learned I was making when we used a wood fireplace is that green or even not fully aged wood is a crappy heat source. Fun for fire pits, but useless beyond that. And would a thick walled ceramic vessel work? Or would it just crack?
I've tried multiple times with kiln-dried hard woods with a thick crock in a fireplace. I can get it to really hot, but not to a rolling boil like the recipes say should happen.
Quote
Also, you might like this channel https://youtu.be/TdvRfPCrR3A I mean it's not overly in-depth but it's fun.
I've made raston before. :) It's rather tasty with a good venison stew. ^_^
Quote from: merithyn on May 20, 2020, 02:24:32 PM
Quote from: Threviel on May 20, 2020, 02:03:21 PM
I'll try and report back here. I appreciate your help :)
Of course!
I'm planning to do a video class on making a bochet in the next couple of weeks, too. I'll post the link once it's done. :)
I haven't had time to brew a new mead, but I did try the one I previously made again. By (bad) luck there's a homebrewing store next to my job and I talked to the owner about mead. He claimed that mead should rest a few months before drinking. And lo and behold, the yeasty flavour was entirely gone. It was okish I guess, not very good anyway.
I have had the time to do my yearly Glögg. Glögg is a Swedish holiday drink, normally a very sweet mulled wine quite different from the German Glühwein. I do a variant based on svagdricka, a Swedish very low-alcohol malt based beverage. About 5l svagdricka, 2kg sugar and lots of spices and a wine yeast. Smells wonderful when it ferments. It's still fermenting, I think it will take up to 6-8 weeks, then I'll heat it up to 60 C to kill the yeast and bottle it. Can be stored and tastes better next year.
This inspired me to try and brew a beer. I got the store to make me a recipe for a belgian style christmas beer brewed with the brew-in-a-bag-method. It has fermented for a week and I will let it ferment for two more before bottling.
Didn't even think to ask how raw your mead was. Yeah, mine stays in the bottle for a few months before drinking it.
I made sarsparilla. It was good.
How's that made? Where did you get the ingredients?
Youtube shows liek Glen and Friends and How to Drink
I got the ingredients off of Amazon. It wasn't cheap.
Quote from: Threviel on October 27, 2020, 06:58:45 AM
How's that made? Where did you get the ingredients?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-74-KCsZm4
No Gential though.
Cool. That seems fun. Did you bottle it or do the syrupy version?
Reminds me of Gin and Tonic Tonic. Some small company around here makes a tonic syrup using quinine that I absolutely fell in love with, so much better than Schweppes.
I used some coke bottles, and some yeast. Made an iced cream float. I still have the rest in a large jar with an air lock to see how it'd taste if I let it rest a bit.
I do think I watered it down too much though. SO it tastes a little, 'thin'.
Are you using star bottle caps?
NO. :( I figured it it sucked then I'd be embarrassed to use cool bottles with stickers. :(
My first beer (the Belgian triple Christmas beer) is carbonating (perhaps nicely, perhaps a failure) in bottles. I happened upon a crate of German flip-top 50 cl beer bottles and there was just enough beer to fill them all up. It's quite a turbid beer, I had problems siphoning and stirred up some yeast. I have my 40th birthday coming up in two weeks, I think I'm going to drink the first one then.
Today I'm brewing a dubbelbock, a dark and strong German beer. I'm thinking of it as an Easter beer and am calling it Påskator (påsk being Swedish for easter). I have two crates of danish beer bottles waiting to be returned to Denmark, they've been on my attic for 10 yers or so so I thought I'd use them as bottles. I'll have to thoroughly clean hem out and buy a bottle-cap-machintethingy to put on bottle caps. I did put a tap on my fermentation vat so hopefully the bottling will be easier.
My plan is to brew five beers in total, after this a Belgian blonde, a dubbel and then I'll try to copy Kwak. If the five beers become a success I'll continue and build myself a brewers corner in the garage and fix better equipment.
I couldn't stand waiting for my birthday, so I tried the beer. Mrs Threviel really liked it, and I think it will improve with a few more weeks of storage.
(https://www.maskinisten.net/userpix/428080_16497RIAJ9YJ71605453900.jpg)
That's awesome! And swing-top bottle are my favorite. Expensive, but really easy to work with. Be sure to replace the rubber rings annually or every other brew cycle.
Belgians are high-malt, so time makes them better.
Necroing this thread.
I'm attending the Women's International Brewing Summit this weekend, and I'm stupid excited about it. So much so that I already signed up for the Homebrew Con in June. (All online, of course.) I'm heading out to Friar Tuck's after work to get the beers on the "tasting list" for this weekend.
I'm considering buying one of the occlusion tasters that you can get to help identify flavors in beer, both good and bad. They're pricey - $195 for the one I'm looking at - but I want to do more judging as well as competitive brewing. I think this will help. Anyone tried any of these? :unsure:
Quote from: Threviel on November 07, 2020, 07:08:07 AM
My first beer (the Belgian triple Christmas beer) is carbonating (perhaps nicely, perhaps a failure) in bottles. I happened upon a crate of German flip-top 50 cl beer bottles and there was just enough beer to fill them all up. It's quite a turbid beer, I had problems siphoning and stirred up some yeast. I have my 40th birthday coming up in two weeks, I think I'm going to drink the first one then.
Today I'm brewing a dubbelbock, a dark and strong German beer. I'm thinking of it as an Easter beer and am calling it Påskator (påsk being Swedish for easter). I have two crates of danish beer bottles waiting to be returned to Denmark, they've been on my attic for 10 yers or so so I thought I'd use them as bottles. I'll have to thoroughly clean hem out and buy a bottle-cap-machintethingy to put on bottle caps. I did put a tap on my fermentation vat so hopefully the bottling will be easier.
My plan is to brew five beers in total, after this a Belgian blonde, a dubbel and then I'll try to copy Kwak. If the five beers become a success I'll continue and build myself a brewers corner in the garage and fix better equipment.
Hey, Threival, how did your Easter beer turn out? And are you still brewing?
Okay. Adventures in kegging has begun!
I made two beers that are right now sitting in two kegs: a peach wheat and a molasses robust porter. While I wait for my air distributor, I'm only carbonating the peach wheat which will be ready to drink early next week.
I'm also looking to set up a keezer with four taps which means that I need names for my beer.
So, given the above.... what should I name my peach wheat and my molasses robust porter? I'm also going to be making an all-grain pale ale this coming week.
Peachy McPeachface?
Miss Meri's Twin Peaches
Peach Buzz
Quote from: Tonitrus on June 25, 2021, 12:12:41 PM
Peach Buzz
Oh, I like that....
E suggested Princess Peach. :yuk:
Quote from: PDH on June 25, 2021, 11:16:01 AM
Miss Meri's Twin Peaches
The brew label is Silver Brock, so not sure that would flow as well: Silver Brock Twin Peaches. :hmm:
Peachy keen... ya in bad at this hah
Quote from: merithyn on June 25, 2021, 02:32:13 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 25, 2021, 11:16:01 AM
Miss Meri's Twin Peaches
The brew label is Silver Brock, so not sure that would flow as well: Silver Brock Twin Peaches. :hmm:
As long as a nice lady is holding them in front of her all is good. It could be the Hooters of Beer.
Quote from: PDH on June 25, 2021, 03:01:47 PM
Quote from: merithyn on June 25, 2021, 02:32:13 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 25, 2021, 11:16:01 AM
Miss Meri's Twin Peaches
The brew label is Silver Brock, so not sure that would flow as well: Silver Brock Twin Peaches. :hmm:
As long as a nice lady is holding in front of her all is good. It could be the Hooters of Beer.
<_<
Quote from: merithyn on April 25, 2021, 09:57:40 AM
Hey, Threival, how did your Easter beer turn out? And are you still brewing?
Whoops, missed this. I've been working from home since Christmas so I haven't been able to buy ingredients, otherwise I would be brewing.
My latest brews were a Belgian Double and an Irish Red Ale. I ordered the ingredients over phone and the taste did not turn out as I wanted, some misunderstanding with the store. Technically they were somewhat of a success, clear, good carbonation and no infections. I use my sous vide circulator to keep the temperature and I dropped it into the pot during brewing, so temperature control went a bit haywire.
The easter beer turned out very nice, I stored some to try next year. A mistake I made was to put in the yeast when it was too hot so I killed it, but I bought some new the next day. Unfortunately my shop was out of the proper yeast so I had to replace it with some english ale yeast, turned out good anyway. I've also brewed a Patersbier (Belgian beer style regular table beer, not very strong. It's what the monks drink.) and a Kwak-clone, both turned out very nice indeed.
I feel like I have progressed technically for every beer, I've stated using Irish Moss and I've gotten some routine with bottling and storing and timing. I had great plans for nice summer and autumn beers (saisons, Belgian blondes, some light english ale) but I feel that the best I can do is a few Christmas/winters beers in August perhaps. I will do a new Belgian triple with my brother in law and perhaps a Quadrupel myself.
Quote from: Threviel on June 27, 2021, 03:03:17 AM
Quote from: merithyn on April 25, 2021, 09:57:40 AM
Hey, Threival, how did your Easter beer turn out? And are you still brewing?
Whoops, missed this. I've been working from home since Christmas so I haven't been able to buy ingredients, otherwise I would be brewing.
My latest brews were a Belgian Double and an Irish Red Ale. I ordered the ingredients over phone and the taste did not turn out as I wanted, some misunderstanding with the store. Technically they were somewhat of a success, clear, good carbonation and no infections. I use my sous vide circulator to keep the temperature and I dropped it into the pot during brewing, so temperature control went a bit haywire.
The easter beer turned out very nice, I stored some to try next year. A mistake I made was to put in the yeast when it was too hot so I killed it, but I bought some new the next day. Unfortunately my shop was out of the proper yeast so I had to replace it with some english ale yeast, turned out good anyway. I've also brewed a Patersbier (Belgian beer style regular table beer, not very strong. It's what the monks drink.) and a Kwak-clone, both turned out very nice indeed.
I feel like I have progressed technically for every beer, I've stated using Irish Moss and I've gotten some routine with bottling and storing and timing. I had great plans for nice summer and autumn beers (saisons, Belgian blondes, some light english ale) but I feel that the best I can do is a few Christmas/winters beers in August perhaps. I will do a new Belgian triple with my brother in law and perhaps a Quadrupel myself.
Oh! A Belgian triple, you say! Care to share the recipe?? :D
Suggestions:
A Real Peach
Impeach 45
Peach Perfect
Forever Hold Your Peach
War and Peach
Peachnik
Peach To Their Own
Son of a Peacherman
The Peacharound
Soft Round Peaches
Peach 100
Peachure This
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 12,00 l
Boil Size: 21,83 l
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 16,46 l
Final Bottling Vol: 10,30 l
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
3,50 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (3,7 EBC) Grain 1 81,4 %
0,30 kg Melanoiden Malt (70,0 EBC) Grain 2 7,0 %
0,30 kg Special B Malt (300,0 EBC) Grain 3 7,0 %
0,20 kg Wheat Malt, Bel (3,9 EBC) Grain 4 4,7 %
40,00 g Styrian Goldings [2,90 %] - Boil 60,0 min Hop 5 17,8 IBUs
40,00 g Styrian Goldings [2,90 %] - Boil 15,0 min Hop 6 8,8 IBUs
40,00 g Styrian Goldings [2,90 %] - Boil 5,0 min Hop 8 3,5 IBUs
1,0 pkg Belgian Ale Yeast (Mangroves Jacks #M41) [124,21 ml] Yeast 10
Est Original Gravity: 1,075 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1,022 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7,1 %
Bitterness: 30,2 IBUs
Est Color: 32,6 EBC
Mash Name: BIAB, Full Body
Sparge Water: 0,00 l
Sparge Temperature: 75,6 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE
Saccharification Add 24,46 l of water at 73,1 C 68,9 C 60 min
Mash Out Heat to 75,6 C over 7 min 75,6 C 10 min
Sparge: If steeping, remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Mash Notes: Brew in a bag method where the full boil volume is mashed within the boil vessel and then the grains are
withdrawn at the end of the mash. No active sparging is required. This is a full body beer profile.
This was my christmas beer, IIRC a Belgian triple. I don't think I will do the next very much different, the taste was excellent but the skill was lacking.
:mmm:
A lot of hops for a tripel, no? 30 IBUs seems high.
I don't compose these myself, I don't understand. :Embarrass: :blush: